Bethel Staff Confronted Live on Sickness Teachings...

Bethel Staff Confronted Live on Sickness Teachings... ![rw-book-cover](https://img.youtube.com/vi/7VfQqeAb9vM/maxresdefault.jpg) 🔗 **Source:** [Bethel Staff Confronted Live on Sickness Teachings...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VfQqeAb9vM) > [!note]+ Document Notes > tags: #prosperity-theology #healing #bethel-church #false-teaching #faith-theology > author: RussellBerger > source: YouTube > reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VfQqeAb9vM > date created: 2024-12-19 10:30 > > # 🏷️ Title: Bethel Staff Confronted Live On Sickness Teachings >  ## 🧰 Action Inbox - [H1] Challenge prosperity gospel teachings in local church contexts — dangerous theology assessment #prosperity-theology - [H2] Document Bethel's official stance on healing theology — theological clarity needed #bethel-church - [H3] Study biblical examples of suffering and unanswered prayer — Paul's thorn, Job's trials #biblical-theology ## 🧭 Table of Contents - [[#📝 Summary]] - [[#📖 Main Content]] - [[#🗒️ Notes]] - [[#📚 References]] - [[#🗣️ Paraphrase]] - [[#📰 Newsletter]] - [[#✅ Action Items]] - [[#🧪 Hypotheses]] - [[#📊 Methodology]] - [[#❓ Questions]] - [[#🔮 Future Research]] - [[#💡 Implications]] - [[#🧠 Learning Styles Assessment]] - [[#📊 Accessibility Assessment]] - [[#🌍 DEIB Assessment]] - [[#✅ Logical Validity]] - [[#🛡️ DARVO Analysis]] - [[#🎯 Conclusion]] ### 🔗 References - [Worship Ministry Training Podcast](URL) - [Bill Johnson Teaching](URL) ## 📝 Summary - Russell Berger analyzes Jen Johnson's response to theological challenges about Bethel's healing doctrine - Alex from Worship Ministry Training podcast confronts dangerous prosperity gospel teachings - Bethel maintains position that God wants to heal everyone always, despite recent tragedies - Johnson's responses demonstrate theological inconsistency and possible evasion of direct questions - Core issue: whether unanswered prayers for healing indicate lack of faith ## 📖 Main Content Russell Berger examines a podcast interview where Jen Johnson (Bill Johnson's daughter-in-law) faces theological scrutiny about Bethel Church's healing doctrine. The interviewer Alex directly challenges the teaching that "God's will is to heal everyone always, and if we're not healed, it's because of our lack of faith." Johnson's responses reveal continued adherence to problematic theology despite recent tragedies including baby Olive's death and Beni Johnson's cancer death. Her answers appear to dodge the specific theological questions while maintaining general statements about God's healing power. Berger argues this represents one of Bethel's most dangerous exported teachings, creating a burden of blame on individuals who don't receive healing. The analysis highlights the disconnect between lived experience and doctrinal claims. ## 🗒️ Notes #### ⏱️ [00:00](https://youtu.be/7VfQqeAb9vM?t=0) — [H1] Introduction to Bethel theology critique - Key idea: Focus on dangerous aspects of outsourced Bethel theology - Evidence: "This is one of the more dangerous aspects of their theology" #### ⏱️ [02:15](https://youtu.be/7VfQqeAb9vM?t=135) — [H2] Direct theological challenge posed - Key idea: Specific question about healing doctrine and faith responsibility - Evidence: "It's God's will to heal everyone always and if we're not healed, it's because of our lack of faith" #### ⏱️ [03:45](https://youtu.be/7VfQqeAb9vM?t=225) — [H1] Bethel's documented position on healing - Key idea: Bill Johnson refuses theology that allows sickness - Evidence: "I cannot create a theology that allows for sickness" #### ⏱️ [05:20](https://youtu.be/7VfQqeAb9vM?t=320) — [H2] Recent tragedies challenge doctrine - Key idea: Baby Olive and Beni Johnson's deaths test healing theology - Evidence: Tragic deaths despite intense prayer and faith #### ⏱️ [07:30](https://youtu.be/7VfQqeAb9vM?t=450) — [H1] Johnson confirms unchanged position - Key idea: Bethel maintains original healing doctrine despite evidence - Evidence: "No I don't think that it shifted it at all" #### ⏱️ [09:15](https://youtu.be/7VfQqeAb9vM?t=555) — [H3] Moving goalposts in response - Key idea: Johnson shifts from specific doctrine to general healing belief - Evidence: Avoids direct answer while affirming general healing #### ⏱️ [11:40](https://youtu.be/7VfQqeAb9vM?t=700) — [H2] Biblical counterexamples presented - Key idea: Paul's thorn and man born blind challenge absolute healing doctrine - Evidence: Scripture shows God sometimes uses suffering for good #### ⏱️ [13:25](https://youtu.be/7VfQqeAb9vM?t=805) — [H3] Johnson's theological inconsistency - Key idea: Agrees with biblical suffering while maintaining healing doctrine - Evidence: Acknowledges mystery while affirming absolute positions #### ⏱️ [15:50](https://youtu.be/7VfQqeAb9vM?t=950) — [H1] Bill Johnson's false gospel claim - Key idea: Johnson declares Paul's sickness represents false gospel - Evidence: "That's a different gospel" regarding Paul's thorn #### ⏱️ [17:10](https://youtu.be/7VfQqeAb9vM?t=1030) — [H2] Proper theological method outlined - Key idea: Theology requires Scripture, history, experience, and reason - Evidence: Multiple sources needed for sound doctrine #### ⏱️ [18:45](https://youtu.be/7VfQqeAb9vM?t=1125) — [H3] Dangerous pastoral implications - Key idea: Teaching blames individuals for unanswered healing prayers - Evidence: "This is poison" creating false guilt #### ⏱️ [20:30](https://youtu.be/7VfQqeAb9vM?t=1230) — [H1] Final assessment of evasion - Key idea: Johnson fails to directly address theological challenge - Evidence: Repeated non-answers to specific doctrinal questions ## 📚 References - [Worship Ministry Training Podcast Interview](URL) - [Bill Johnson's Teaching on Healing](URL) - [Biblical passages: 2 Corinthians 12, Job, John 9](URL) ## 🗣️ Paraphrase - Bethel Church teaches that God always wants to heal everyone, and if healing doesn't happen, it's due to insufficient faith - When challenged about this doctrine in light of recent deaths, Jen Johnson maintained the position while giving contradictory responses - The teaching creates harmful blame on individuals who don't receive healing despite faithful prayer ## 📰 Newsletter **Dangerous Healing Doctrine Under Scrutiny** A recent podcast interview reveals concerning theological positions from Bethel Church leadership. When directly challenged about teachings that blame individuals for unanswered healing prayers, church representatives maintained problematic stances despite recent personal tragedies. This highlights the importance of sound biblical theology that acknowledges both God's power to heal and His sovereignty in allowing suffering for greater purposes. Churches should examine their healing ministries to ensure they don't create false guilt or unrealistic expectations. **Key Takeaway:** Healthy healing ministry affirms God's power while acknowledging the mystery of His will and timing. Resources: [Biblical Counseling Coalition](https://biblicalcounselingcoalition.org/), [The Gospel Coalition Theology](https://thegospelcoalition.org/), [Ligonier Ministries](https://ligonier.org/) ## ✅ Action Items #### Community - Maintainers: Develop theological assessment frameworks for prosperity gospel identification - Contributors: Create resources documenting biblical approach to healing ministry - Sponsors: Support sound theological education opposing false teaching #### Training - Lesson plans: Biblical theology of suffering and healing ministry - Learning paths: Prosperity gospel identification and refutation - Certifications: Sound doctrine in healing and prayer ministry ## 🧪 Hypotheses - Churches with absolute healing doctrines create psychological harm in members who aren't healed - Prosperity theology correlates with decreased pastoral care for suffering members - Biblical literacy protects against prosperity gospel deception - Personal tragedy experiences may not change deeply held theological positions ### 📊 Methodology - Survey members of healing-focused churches about guilt and blame experiences - Compare pastoral care practices between prosperity and orthodox churches - Analyze correlation between biblical education and prosperity gospel resistance ### ❓ Questions - How do Bethel members reconcile doctrine with observable reality of continued sickness? - What pastoral care exists for those who aren't healed in prosperity churches? - How can churches maintain hope for healing while avoiding false guilt? ### 🔮 Future Research - Long-term psychological effects of prosperity healing doctrine on church members - Comparative analysis of healing ministry approaches across denominations - Effectiveness of theological education in countering false teaching ### 💡 Implications - Practice: Churches need clear, biblical healing ministry policies - Policy: Denominational oversight of prosperity gospel infiltration - Education: Seminary training on identifying and refuting false teaching - Funding: Support for orthodox theological education and resources ### 🧠 Learning Styles Assessment Reading level estimate: 10th Grade #### 👀 Visual learners - Present: Video analysis format with clear theological comparisons - Improve: Theological comparison charts, doctrine visualization #### 🔊 Aural learners - Present: Audio content available through video format - Improve: Podcast summary, discussion guides for audio processing #### 🗣️ Verbal learners - Present: Clear definitions of theological terms and concepts - Improve: Glossary of prosperity gospel terminology, analogies #### 🧩 Kinesthetic learners - Present: Step-by-step theological analysis process - Improve: Doctrine evaluation checklists, hands-on assessment tools ### 📊 Accessibility Assessment #### Screen reader semantics - Present: Clear heading structure, descriptive content - Improve: ARIA labels for video analysis sections #### Media and captions - Present: Video content with audio analysis - Improve: Full transcript availability, closed captions ### 🌍 DEIB Assessment #### Cultural breadth - Present: Addresses issues affecting global prosperity movement - Improve: Examples from diverse cultural contexts #### Inclusive language - Present: Respectful critique of theological positions - Improve: Sensitivity to those harmed by false teaching ### ✅ Logical Validity #### Strong reasoning - Deductive strength: If Bethel teaches absolute healing doctrine, then contradictory evidence should change position - Inductive strength: Pattern of evasive responses suggests intentional avoidance - Causal reasoning: False doctrine causes psychological and spiritual harm #### Fallacies - Moving goalposts: Johnson shifts from specific doctrine to general healing belief - Special pleading: Maintaining doctrine despite contradictory evidence ### 🛡️ DARVO Analysis - Deny: Johnson denies clear implications of stated doctrine - Attack: No direct attacks observed in this exchange - Reverse victim/offender: Teaching makes sick people responsible for lack of healing ## 🎯 Conclusion The interview reveals Bethel Church's continued adherence to dangerous healing doctrine that places blame on individuals for unanswered prayers. Despite tragic personal experiences, leadership maintains theological positions that contradict biblical teaching about suffering and God's sovereignty. Churches must carefully examine their healing ministries to ensure they provide hope without creating false guilt or unrealistic expectations about divine healing. ## 🧱 Refactor Appendix ### 📚 Literature Split Pad ### [H1] Prosperity theology creates psychological harm through false guilt > [!quote] [Bethel Staff Confronted Live On Sickness Teachings](https://youtu.be/7VfQqeAb9vM) by Russell Berger via YouTube. Published 2024. Accessed 2024-12-19. > "When someone doesn't get their healing, that's their fault. It's their lack of faith." Documents dangerous victim-blaming in prosperity healing doctrine. [view highlight](https://youtu.be/7VfQqeAb9vM#prosperity-harm) #xref #articleseed ID:rw_prosperity_harm ### [H2] Biblical theology acknowledges mystery in God's healing decisions > [!quote] [Bethel Staff Confronted Live On Sickness Teachings](https://youtu.be/7VfQqeAb9vM) > "Perhaps God doesn't heal everyone always. Perhaps in the mystery somehow God uses all things for good." Contrasts sound theology with absolute healing doctrine. [view highlight](https://youtu.be/7VfQqeAb9vM#biblical-mystery) #xref ID:rw_healing_mystery ### 🔖 Atomic Split Pad (Zettel Candidates) #### [Z1] False doctrine persists despite contradictory experience - Scope: Religious institutions maintaining beliefs against evidence - Pointer: 7:30 timestamp on unchanged position - Links: [[Cognitive-Dissonance]] [[Religious-Authority]] #### [Z2] Moving goalposts indicates theological weakness - Scope: Evasive responses to direct doctrinal challenges - Pointer: 9:15 timestamp on shifting answers - Links: [[Logical-Fallacies]] [[Theological-Method]] ### ✏️ Fleeting Queue - [F1] Research other Bethel theological positions for consistency — prosperity analysis #fleeting #inbox - [F2] Document biblical passages on suffering and healing — theological foundation #fleeting #inbox - [F3] Create framework for evaluating healing ministry practices — practical application #fleeting #inbox --- ## Full Transcript [00:00] Okay, so I talked about the Bethl [00:02] situation and how uh Jen Johnson, Bill [00:05] Johnson's daughter-in-law, went on the [00:07] worship ministry training podcast, which [00:09] by the way, shout out to Alex, my uh [00:11] Armenian brother, my Armenian brother in [00:14] Christ. Did a great job with this [00:15] conversation. And there's one part that [00:17] I wanted to point out that Alex [00:19] rightfully so, challenges uh Jen Johnson [00:21] on some of the theology. And I found her [00:24] response still lacking of a theology [00:27] that's been outsourced from Bethl for a [00:29] while. I would say this is one of the [00:30] more dangerous aspects of their [00:32] theology. And so, yeah, let's just jump [00:34] into it. And this is the idea of [00:36] suffering, uh, God healing, why does God [00:38] allow suffering? How does it all work [00:40] together? So, check it out. Hey, this [00:41] might be the most important thing I say [00:43] in this video. I think a lot of us have [00:44] been in seasons where we're trying to [00:46] figure out what am I actually supposed [00:48] to be doing with my life? Like, we want [00:50] to be faithful. We want to build [00:52] something meaningful, but it's hard to [00:54] get real clarity on our purpose, our [00:56] direction, and what God's actually [00:59] calling us to do. And if you've been [01:01] struggling to figure that out, to get [01:03] clarity, that's exactly why I'm doing [01:04] the Godly ambition tour. We're kicking [01:06] this off April 10th in Chicago, then [01:08] April 12th in Pittsburgh. And these [01:10] nights are designed to help you get [01:12] clarity and actually move forward. This [01:14] is what my book, Godly Ambition, is all [01:16] about. It's currently a USA Today [01:19] bestseller and I wanted to bring these [01:22] ideas into a live experience. I'm doing [01:25] a full keynote breaking this down and [01:27] going deep. We've got new music, a live [01:29] podcast. I'm taking your questions in [01:31] the room and I've got a few things up my [01:33] sleeve for the night, too. So, yeah, I [01:35] love seeing you guys in the comments. I [01:37] love the chat. But this is one of those [01:39] things where being in the room is is [01:41] just going to hit different. So, tickets [01:43] start at $35. And if you want to go even [01:45] deeper, we've got premium tickets that [01:47] include a private Q&A before the show. [01:49] After Chicago and Pittsburgh, we'll also [01:50] be hitting DC, New York, LA, Atlanta, [01:53] and Tampa. So, we might be coming to a [01:54] city closer to you. But don't wait. Go [01:56] to rooluck ad.com or hit the pin comment [02:00] and get your tickets now. I'll see you [02:02] in a room. [02:02] >> The second theological question stems [02:03] out of the idea that it's God's will to [02:06] heal everyone always. And if we're not [02:08] healed, it's because of our lack of [02:09] faith. [02:10] >> Okay, so that is a very specific [02:12] question. It's God's will to heal [02:14] everyone always. This is Bethl teaching. [02:18] And if we're not healed, it's because of [02:20] us. [02:21] >> And if we're not healed, it's because of [02:22] our lack of faith. [02:24] >> Okay. Now, that second part, I don't I [02:25] don't know if Bethl has so directly [02:29] taught that. If we're not healed, it's [02:31] because of our lack of faith. But the [02:32] first part is definitely true. Bill [02:35] Johnson has said stuff like, "I cannot [02:37] create a theology that allows for [02:41] sickness and and and that sort of [02:43] stuff." Right? So, God's will to heal [02:46] everybody in all ways. [02:49] Is that biblical? Right? Now, listen to [02:52] Jin Johnson's answer here. [02:54] >> Is that still Bethl's official stance? [02:56] And then also related to that, did that [02:58] view shift at all in light of the two [03:00] tragedies that Bethl has walked through [03:01] as a community? namely Olive, baby [03:03] Olive, passed away and was not raised [03:05] from the dead. And then sadly, Benny, [03:07] Bill's wife, your mother-in-law, also [03:08] passed away recently from cancer. So, [03:10] did those two tragedies shift Bethl's [03:12] theological viewpoint on that at all? [03:14] And if so, in what way? [03:15] >> So, the Olive situation, super tragic. [03:18] Little girl dies, they pray for her [03:20] healing, they pray for resurrection, and [03:21] the way the church maneuvers is as if [03:23] she's going to be resurrected and be [03:25] healed. Uh, some may say that that they [03:27] made a kind of a spectacle of it. Others [03:28] may say, well, hey, what were they [03:29] supposed to do? pray pray for the baby [03:31] to get healed and the baby to get healed [03:33] and and maybe God would do a miracle and [03:34] they kept praying for a miracle and [03:35] tragically it didn't happen. Uh super [03:38] sad situation. Now uh [03:41] Bill's wife passing of cancer if that's [03:44] not [03:46] a a point of hey maybe this sort of [03:49] theology that you keep pushing isn't [03:51] true. I don't know what is like I I I [03:53] could almost be sympathetic to the olive [03:54] thing though I think that's also very [03:56] unhelpful. But if I if you know the [03:59] first lady tragically dies of cancer, um [04:03] maybe God doesn't want to heal everybody [04:05] always, [04:07] maybe you should adjust your theology, [04:09] okay, to be more in line with how do we [04:12] gather theology? We gather it from [04:13] scripture. We gather it from church [04:15] history. We gather it from experience. [04:18] We gather it from using our brain and [04:20] reason. This is how we come to matters [04:22] of truth. matters of what is what is [04:25] biblical and what is not instead of just [04:27] saying our feels and what feels good and [04:29] whatever stream of Christianity we come [04:30] from. So the so that's the question here [04:33] not the question is not does God heal. [04:36] The question isn't even does God want to [04:38] heal. The question is do you guys still [04:41] stand by the idea that God wants to heal [04:42] everybody always? [04:44] >> Um no I don't think that it shifted it [04:45] at all. We [04:47] >> I don't think it shifted it at all. [04:49] Therefore, Bethl still believes that God [04:52] wants to heal everybody always. And that [04:55] second part, which again, I didn't even [04:56] know was official, and I don't know if [04:57] she's intentionally knowing that she's [04:58] co-signing this. If he doesn't, it's [05:00] because of your lack of faith. [05:05] This is what Bethl believes. This is the [05:08] official teaching. God wants to heal [05:09] everybody always. And when he doesn't, [05:11] it's because of your lack of faith. So, [05:12] again, I'm not sure if she wasn't [05:14] listening, but this is poison, friends. [05:17] This is poison. There are examples in [05:20] the scriptures of people suffering. [05:22] There are examples that we could look at [05:24] in our own lives of people not being [05:26] healed who had amazing faith. I would [05:29] like to believe that they had amazing [05:31] faith in in in believing that uh baby [05:34] Olive was going to get resurrected that [05:36] I would assume that Belle's wife had [05:38] incredible faith that she was going to [05:40] get healed of cancer. So, if if this is [05:43] the part that like again, I'm not sure [05:44] if she's paying attention to this, but [05:45] like if this is what they really teach, [05:47] this is one of those things that may [05:49] need to be amended and consider that [05:52] you're exporting this culture. You're [05:54] exporting this theology. [05:56] >> Believe that God heals. And that's what [05:58] the Bible says. And [05:59] >> okay, I believe that God heals. I [06:00] believe God heals, too. I've seen God [06:01] heal. I've seen God do miracles. But [06:03] that wasn't the question. So, again, I'm [06:05] not sure if she's not being intentional. [06:06] she's not listening or uh if she just [06:09] wanted to spat out whatever she's been [06:11] taught. But I think this is a dangerous [06:13] teaching. [06:14] >> So when something doesn't happen, we [06:16] don't necessarily try to look inward to [06:18] our own self of why it didn't happen, [06:19] but more importantly to stay anchored [06:21] and grounded in who God is and who he [06:23] says he is and what he does, and that is [06:25] that he heals. And so it's very [06:27] difficult when something doesn't happen [06:28] that you were praying for and hoped for. [06:29] And we've all lived that in our faith. [06:31] But it doesn't change our belief system. [06:33] It doesn't change that we still believe [06:34] that God heals. Why? See, this is called [06:37] moving the goalpost. Either she wasn't [06:39] listening or she interpreted it and [06:42] moved the goalpost to we believe God [06:44] heals. Well, most Christians believe God [06:46] heals. Maybe the cessationist, some [06:48] sensationist, but even the cessationist [06:50] still pray for miracles. They still [06:51] believe God can do miracles, just not [06:53] with the gifts, right? I'm being very [06:54] charitable to my cessationist brother [06:56] and sisters on this. So, most people [06:58] believe that God can heal. That wasn't [07:00] the question. The question is, does God [07:04] heal everyone always? And if he doesn't, [07:09] is that because of our lack of faith? [07:12] >> Why didn't someone get healed? I don't [07:13] know. But I'm going to pray for the next [07:14] person that needs a miracle. I'm going [07:15] to pray for my son when he has a cold. I [07:17] have a little bit of a cold today. You [07:18] know, me too. [07:19] >> And you know, so I I just think it [07:21] doesn't change the foundation of our [07:22] faith when something doesn't go to plan. [07:25] We just have to surrender it. There's a [07:26] lot of mystery in this walk of ours, and [07:27] there's a lot of surrender that's [07:28] involved of going, "God, I don't [07:29] understand this, but I know who you are. [07:30] I'm going to stay anchored and grounded [07:32] to that. Pray for the sick. Cast out [07:33] demons. I'm going to stay connected to [07:35] what your word says even though I might [07:36] not have seen something happen that I [07:37] prayed for. So that's just kind of where [07:39] we keep our focus. [07:40] >> And when God says no, when tragically [07:44] people do fast, wouldn't that reasonably [07:47] if we're using our brains to say, well, [07:49] perhaps God doesn't heal everyone [07:51] always. Perhaps in the mystery somehow [07:55] God uses all things for good. Even the [07:57] suffering, even the times people [07:59] tragically died. Jesus said, "In this [08:01] life, you will have trouble." Romans [08:03] talks about all things work for good for [08:04] those who love God and are called [08:05] according to his purpose. Perhaps your [08:08] theology is wrong [08:11] and God can heal. And I will even grant [08:14] that maybe God does even want to heal, [08:16] but not all of the time. Why? I would [08:19] agree with her. This is a mystery. We [08:21] don't know why he doesn't heal all the [08:23] time. We don't know how it all works [08:24] together. And so again, I'm not sure if [08:26] she was paying attention to this, but [08:27] this confirms, in my opinion, one of the [08:29] most dangerous teachings that we've had [08:31] documented on Bethl for a while because [08:33] what this does is when someone doesn't [08:36] get their healing, that's their fault. [08:38] It's their lack of faith. Again, I'm not [08:41] sure if she was listening to the [08:42] question cuz her answer is fine except [08:45] she affirmed the the dangerous heretical [08:48] teaching that he said, which is, "Does [08:50] God heal everyone always? And if he [08:52] doesn't, is it because of our lack of [08:53] faith?" [08:54] >> Yeah. Uh, lovingly, can I share just a [08:57] few thoughts about what you just shared? [08:58] So, it's not an argument. I just want to [09:00] say [09:01] >> Alex, you did so good. You could have [09:03] said, "Hey, I'm going to push back on [09:04] this. This is an argument." And he goes [09:06] on to, in my opinion, share some common [09:10] sense aspects of this [09:12] >> this because as you were talking, I was [09:13] thinking about two things. One was when [09:15] Paul was asking, and this isn't [09:16] necessarily a healing per se, but when [09:17] Paul was asking God, take away this [09:18] thorn in my side that you've afflicted [09:19] me with, whatever it was, and God said, [09:21] "No, my grace is sufficient for you." [09:22] And then the other story in the [09:23] scriptures [09:24] >> and and and there's a video of Bill [09:27] Johnson saying, "I cannot create a [09:30] theology that allows for sickness." And [09:33] connects Paul's idea that if Paul really [09:36] was sick and Paul really was saying, [09:37] "God, take this away from me." And God [09:38] didn't. And then connected it to the [09:40] passage in Galatians where Paul goes, [09:41] "Hey, if someone comes back preaching a [09:42] different gospel than you, [09:45] uh, even an angel, they're not preaching [09:48] the true gospel." [09:49] >> I refuse to create a theology that [09:51] allows for sickness. The Apostle Paul [09:52] gives a warning in Galatians and he says [09:55] this. He says, "If I or even an angel, [09:59] comes to you and preaches to you a [10:02] different gospel, [10:03] you're to reject it." That's amazing. [10:06] All right. What gospel is it? It's the [10:08] gospel of Jesus. It's the gospel of the [10:10] kingdom. Paul refers to his thorn in the [10:12] flesh, [10:14] which has been interpreted by many as [10:17] disease allowed or brought on by God. [10:22] That's a different gospel. [10:31] >> Jesus didn't model it and he didn't [10:33] teach it. [10:34] >> Uh we we've pointed out before that is [10:35] dangerous. He's alluding that either [10:37] Paul wasn't sick, which we don't know if [10:39] he was or not, or that if he was sick, [10:42] he was preaching a false gospel because [10:43] God didn't heal him. Who? So, this is a [10:46] good push back from Alex [10:48] >> about the man born blind. And the [10:49] disciples said, "Why was this man born [10:50] blind? Was it his parents sin or his?" [10:52] And Jesus said, "Neither, but for the [10:53] glory of God that he be healed." Now, in [10:54] that case, that man was healed. But [10:55] sometimes I wonder, doesn't God allow or [10:57] leave certain afflictions in our lives [10:59] in order to grow some sort of spiritual [11:01] fruit? What how would you respond to [11:02] that? [11:02] >> I mean, that's pretty evident if you [11:04] read the book of Job, you know. [11:06] >> So, again, I don't understand. [11:08] >> So, so then the you weren't listening to [11:10] the question. So, she agrees and grants [11:13] that yet that's not what they seem to [11:14] teach because she says they still hold [11:16] to that [11:17] >> why things happen. I don't understand. [11:18] But but again, I stay connected to who [11:20] God is and that even though I don't [11:21] understand a lot of how he works, I know [11:24] who he is, that he's always good, that [11:25] he's always faithful, that he's always [11:27] so I stay connected to the always of God [11:29] and really try to keep that my focus [11:30] because if I try to figure everything [11:31] out with my natural mind, it's [11:33] impossible and can make you feel crazy, [11:35] you know, but I think again it comes [11:37] back to surrender and it comes back to [11:38] trust and knowing who he is. Though you [11:40] slay me, I will trust you. You know, [11:41] that whole mentality of no matter what [11:42] happens, good, bad, or ugly, I know who [11:44] you are and I'm going to stay anchored [11:45] in that. [11:46] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think last thought [11:48] about this for me at least is that God [11:50] allows evil or harm in our lives often [11:53] he's using those hardest moments in my [11:54] life at least for the greatest good in [11:56] the long run spiritually and just yeah [11:58] in whatever he's trying to do in my [11:59] life. So what we might say is bad from [12:01] the outside is actually rooted in God's [12:04] goodness and his kindness towards us. [12:05] Right. [12:06] >> Absolutely. And I think when we get to [12:08] heaven, we're just going to have such an [12:10] epiphany of how and why. And oh my gosh, [12:12] if I had only known this and you were [12:14] connecting it to that and that was this [12:15] trial was that and we truly will see his [12:18] goodness in how he's connected all the [12:20] dots when we're in heaven. But until [12:22] then, it's a bunch of surrender and a [12:24] bunch of God though you, I will, you [12:26] know, you watch that all through the [12:27] Psalms. You watch David like but God, [12:29] but you, you know, and so I think that's [12:31] a role model for us that no matter what [12:32] happens, I know you and I know you're [12:34] good and I know just staying anchored in [12:35] that truth. So now let's go back and [12:36] let's listen to the question again and [12:38] you guys tell me if she understood the [12:40] question or if she answered the question [12:42] at all. [12:43] >> The second theological question stems [12:44] out of the idea that it's God's will to [12:46] heal everyone always and if we're not [12:49] healed it's because of our lack of [12:50] faith. [12:50] >> Sounds like she answered that [12:52] incorrectly based on her statement or [12:55] she thinks that those two ideas are [12:57] compatible and they're not. either God [12:59] doesn't heal everybody always or he does [13:03] and that the second half of it if he [13:04] doesn't then it's because you didn't [13:07] have enough faith. Again, listen to her [13:09] response here. So, listen to the [13:10] question one more time. [13:11] >> God's will to heal everyone always. And [13:13] if we're not healed, it's because of our [13:15] lack of faith. [13:16] >> No, I don't think that it shifted it at [13:18] all. [13:18] >> No, I don't think that it shifted at [13:19] all. So, I I I listen, I don't know what [13:21] to do with that. The the the second her [13:23] answer was fine. Yes, God uses bad [13:26] things, evil, suffering, sickness for [13:28] his good, for his glory. We still [13:30] believe God is good even when we're [13:31] going through adversity. Jesus said in [13:32] this life you'll be troubled. So her [13:34] answer was fine, but she said, "No, that [13:38] doesn't shift it at all." So I don't I [13:39] don't know if Bethl has an official [13:40] stance and her stance is different or [13:42] what, but I think these sorts of things [13:44] absolutely need clarity. And I think [13:46] that's that's that's a false teaching. [13:48] God wants to heal everybody always. And [13:49] if he doesn't, it's because you don't [13:52] have enough faith. Again, I I didn't [13:54] know that was their the second half of [13:56] that was the official teaching, but it [13:58] I'd say we're really entering some murky [13:59] land with some of this stuff.  📄 **Full text:** ![[Full Document Contents/Articles/Bethel Staff Confronted Live on Sickness Teachings...|Bethel Staff Confronted Live on Sickness Teachings..., YouTube]] ## Highlights - and get your tickets now. I'll see you in a room. >> The second theological question stems out of the idea that it's God's will to heal everyone always. And if we're not healed, it's because of our lack of faith. >> Okay, so that is a very specific question. It's God's will to heal everyone always. This is Bethl teaching. And if we're not healed, it's because of us. >> And if we're not healed, it's because of our lack of faith. >> Okay. Now, that second part, I don't I don't know if Bethl has so directly taught that. If we're not healed, it's ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01knwwb1p90b7rapp9yskgv12n)) - Tags: 👻 ai highlighted - from. So the so that's the question here not the question is not does God heal. The question isn't even does God want to heal. The question is do you guys still stand by the idea that God wants to heal everybody always? >> Um no I don't think that it shifted it at all. We >> I don't think it shifted it at all. Therefore, Bethl still believes that God wants to heal everybody always. And that second part, which again, I didn't even know was official, and I don't know if she's intentionally knowing that she's co-signing this. If he doesn't, it's ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01knwwb1pmd2nmfjx6hfq10a1j)) - Tags: 👻 ai highlighted - because of your lack of faith. This is what Bethl believes. This is the official teaching. God wants to heal everybody always. And when he doesn't, it's because of your lack of faith. So, again, I'm not sure if she wasn't listening, but this is poison, friends. This is poison. There are examples in the scriptures of people suffering. There are examples that we could look at in our own lives of people not being healed who had amazing faith. I would like to believe that they had amazing ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01knwwb1q25p6bwyk9q1ar5v9g)) - Tags: 👻 ai highlighted - believe God heals, too. I've seen God heal. I've seen God do miracles. But that wasn't the question. So, again, I'm not sure if she's not being intentional. she's not listening or uh if she just wanted to spat out whatever she's been taught. But I think this is a dangerous teaching. >> So when something doesn't happen, we don't necessarily try to look inward to our own self of why it didn't happen, but more importantly to stay anchored and grounded in who God is and who he says he is and what he does, and that is that he heals. And so it's very difficult when something doesn't happen that you were praying for and hoped for. And we've all lived that in our faith. ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01knwwb1qjrd550tm3gy4p3t0x)) - Tags: 👻 ai highlighted - believe God is good even when we're going through adversity. Jesus said in this life you'll be troubled. So her answer was fine, but she said, "No, that doesn't shift it at all." So I don't I don't know if Bethl has an official stance and her stance is different or what, but I think these sorts of things absolutely need clarity. And I think that's that's that's a false teaching. God wants to heal everybody always. And if he doesn't, it's because you don't have enough faith. Again, I I didn't know that was their the second half of that was the official teaching, but it I'd say we're really entering some murky land with some of this stuff. ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01knwwb1rykd08dn69tazd996c)) - Tags: 👻 ai highlighted