Breaking Change Playground, Cancers, Multi-Collab, and More

Breaking Change: Playground, Cancers, Multi-Collab, and More ![rw-book-cover](https://img.youtube.com/vi/2TCuOVx1-j4/maxresdefault.jpg) 🔗 **Source:** [Breaking Change: Playground, Cancers, Multi-Collab, and More](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TCuOVx1-j4) > [!note]+ Document Notes > tags: #wordpress #playground #artificial-intelligence #search #core-development #wp-engine > author: Matt Cromwell, Matt Medeiros > source: YouTube > reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TCuOVx1-j4 > date created: 2025-01-17 20:49 > > # 🏷️ Title: Breaking Change: Playground, Cancers, Multi-Collab, and more >  ## 🧰 Action Inbox - [H1] Review WP Packages as alternative to .org dependency — 00:00 #open-source - [H2] Assess AI integration requirements for WordPress — 12:45 #artificial-intelligence - [H3] Test MySQL full-text search implementation — 25:30 #search ## 🧭 Table of Contents - [[#📝 Summary]] - [[#📖 Main Content]] - [[#🗒️ Notes]] - [[#📚 References]] - [[#🗣️ Paraphrase]] - [[#📰 Newsletter]] - [[#✅ Action Items]] - [[#🧪 Hypotheses]] - [[#📊 Methodology]] - [[#❓ Questions]] - [[#🔮 Future Research]] - [[#💡 Implications]] - [[#🧠 Learning Styles Assessment]] - [[#📊 Accessibility Assessment]] - [[#🌍 DEIB Assessment]] - [[#✅ Logical Validity]] - [[#🛡️ DARVO Analysis]] - [[#🎯 Conclusion]] ### 🔗 References - [WP Packages GitHub](https://github.com/roots/wp-packages) - [WP Minute Courses](https://wpminute.com) ## 📝 Summary - Two WordPress veterans discuss breaking changes in the ecosystem including WP Engine's acquisition of WP Packages, controversial social media posts, and new AI initiatives - Why it matters: These changes affect WordPress infrastructure, community relations, and future development priorities - Key stakeholders: WordPress developers, hosting companies, plugin authors, and core contributors - Risks and tradeoffs: Platform fragmentation vs innovation, open source governance vs corporate control - Bottom line: WordPress faces urgent need to modernize for AI era while addressing community governance issues ## 📖 Main Content The hosts examine several significant developments impacting WordPress. WP Engine's acquisition of WP Packages (formerly WP Composer) creates an alternative plugin delivery system independent of wordpress.org infrastructure. Ben Word from Roots has launched WP Packages as a competing solution, highlighting concerns about corporate control versus community governance. The discussion covers problematic social media messaging from official WordPress accounts, particularly "cancer in the clubhouse" comments targeting WP Engine. This pattern of inflammatory communication damages WordPress's reputation during ongoing legal disputes. On the technical front, WordPress 7.0 will introduce AI connectors as a "bring your own API key" model. The launch of my.wordpress.net presents a simplified version of WordPress Playground, though its purpose and target audience remain unclear. The hosts also address the challenge of contributing to WordPress core, using a MySQL full-text search implementation as an example of technical improvements that face adoption barriers despite clear benefits. ## 🗒️ Notes #### ⏱️ [00:00](https://youtu.be/2TCuOVx1-j4?t=0) — [H1] WP Engine acquires WP Packages - Key idea: WP Packages provides plugin installation via command line, independent of .org - Evidence: "WP packages, um, is not dependent on wp.org in any way whatsoever" #### ⏱️ [05:23](https://youtu.be/2TCuOVx1-j4?t=323) — [H2] Ben Word launches competing solution - Key idea: Roots founder creates alternative WP Packages to maintain community control - Evidence: "he's like, no, we need independence" #### ⏱️ [08:45](https://youtu.be/2TCuOVx1-j4?t=525) — [H3] Sponsorship dollars becoming scarce - Key idea: Private equity backing reduces hosting company sponsorship flexibility - Evidence: "private equity is squeezing hosting companies. So hosting companies are not sponsoring anymore" #### ⏱️ [11:30](https://youtu.be/2TCuOVx1-j4?t=690) — [H2] "Cancer in the clubhouse" controversy - Key idea: Official WordPress social media posts damage community relations - Evidence: "this can't be good for the ongoing litigation that's happening" #### ⏱️ [14:15](https://youtu.be/2TCuOVx1-j4?t=855) — [H1] Can I save WordPress initiative - Key idea: Community members must take initiative since leadership won't help - Evidence: "they're not coming to help us... help's not coming" #### ⏱️ [16:42](https://youtu.be/2TCuOVx1-j4?t=1002) — [H2] WordPress as just a hammer - Key idea: WordPress is a tool, not the end goal - focus should be on client outcomes - Evidence: "WordPress is a hammer and that's it. That's all it is" #### ⏱️ [19:20](https://youtu.be/2TCuOVx1-j4?t=1160) — [H1] AI requires CSS over Full Site Editing - Key idea: AI tools work better with custom CSS than WordPress's block editor - Evidence: "AI understands CSS and it doesn't really very well understand full site editing" #### ⏱️ [21:45](https://youtu.be/2TCuOVx1-j4?t=1305) — [H1] WordPress.com first AI integration - Key idea: Automatic prioritizes wordpress.com for AI features over open source - Evidence: "you will go to wordpress.org one day and it will say the best way to experience WordPress is go to wordpress.com" #### ⏱️ [24:30](https://youtu.be/2TCuOVx1-j4?t=1470) — [H2] WordPress 7.0 AI connectors - Key idea: Core will support "bring your own API key" model for AI integration - Evidence: "the first time we'll have a paid thing in WordPress core is not automatic or jet pack. It's a API key that you buy from somebody else" #### ⏱️ [26:15](https://youtu.be/2TCuOVx1-j4?t=1575) — [H3] My.wordpress.net launch confusion - Key idea: Simplified Playground version lacks clear purpose or value proposition - Evidence: "it's a stripped down version of playground that is just like rebranded" #### ⏱️ [28:00](https://youtu.be/2TCuOVx1-j4?t=1680) — [H3] Apps vs plugins nomenclature - Key idea: New terminology appears without explanation or community input - Evidence: "we've never, we've been calling it plugins for 20 years" #### ⏱️ [29:30](https://youtu.be/2TCuOVx1-j4?t=1770) — [H2] WordPress search improvements - Key idea: MySQL full-text search could dramatically improve admin search functionality - Evidence: "MySQL has been iterating for the last 15 years and the WP query is stuck in 2005" ## 📚 References - [WP Packages Repository](https://github.com/roots/wp-packages) - [WordPress Playground](https://playground.wordpress.net) - [My WordPress.net](https://my.wordpress.net) - [WP Minute Community](https://wpminute.com) ## 🗣️ Paraphrase - WordPress faces infrastructure fragmentation as hosting companies create alternatives to .org dependencies following legal disputes - Community leadership's inflammatory social media presence damages WordPress reputation during critical growth period - AI integration efforts prioritize commercial wordpress.com platform over open source version, signaling strategic shift toward hosted solutions ## 📰 Newsletter WordPress ecosystem experiencing significant shifts as legal battles drive infrastructure changes. WP Engine's acquisition of WP Packages and Ben Word's competing solution highlight growing need for .org alternatives. Meanwhile, WordPress 7.0 introduces AI connectors with "bring your own API key" approach. Key takeaway: Consider diversifying your WordPress toolchain and stay informed about emerging package managers and AI integrations coming in 7.0. Resources: [Learn WordPress](https://learn.wordpress.org/), [Developer Docs](https://developer.wordpress.org/), [WP-CLI](https://wp-cli.org/) ## ✅ Action Items #### WordPress - Core: Evaluate AI connector implementation roadmap and community feedback - Core AI: Prioritize Full Site Editing compatibility with AI tools - Core Performance: Assess MySQL full-text search integration benefits - Community: Address inflammatory social media communications damaging platform reputation - Documentation: Clarify my.wordpress.net purpose and relationship to Playground - Meta: Review plugin distribution alternatives and .org dependency risks #### DevRel - Developer advocacy: Create AI integration tutorials for WordPress 7.0 connectors - Education: Develop courses on package manager alternatives and their tradeoffs - Developer experience: Improve core contribution process to reduce barriers - Community management: Monitor sentiment around platform fragmentation issues #### OSPO - Policy & Governance: Assess implications of competing package managers on ecosystem health - Strategic Alignment: Evaluate corporate acquisition impacts on open source infrastructure - Community Engagement: Address concerns about commercial vs open source prioritization ## 🧪 Hypotheses - WordPress adoption will decline if AI integration lags behind modern development tools - Package manager fragmentation will accelerate if .org infrastructure remains centralized - Commercial wordpress.com will increasingly differentiate from open source version - Community governance issues will drive more infrastructure forks and alternatives ### 📊 Methodology - Survey developer preferences between traditional WordPress and AI-first platforms - Benchmark Full Site Editing performance against custom CSS for AI-generated layouts - Track adoption metrics for alternative package managers vs .org distribution - Measure community sentiment correlation with platform usage statistics ### ❓ Questions - How can WordPress core become more AI-friendly without abandoning existing users? - What governance model would prevent future infrastructure fragmentation? - Should wordpress.com prioritization over .org be made explicit rather than implicit? ### 🔮 Future Research - Investigate successful open source AI integration patterns from other platforms - Analyze corporate acquisition impacts on open source package ecosystem health - Explore community-driven governance models for critical infrastructure components ### 💡 Implications - Practice: Developers should prepare for package manager diversity and AI tool integration - Policy: WordPress needs clearer governance separation between commercial and open source priorities - Security: Alternative package managers require security review processes and vulnerability disclosure - Education: Training materials must cover both traditional WordPress and emerging AI-powered workflows - Funding: Community infrastructure projects need sustainable sponsorship models independent of corporate control ### 🧠 Learning Styles Assessment Reading level estimate: Grade 12 #### 👀 Visual learners - Present: Screen sharing of various WordPress interfaces and tools - Improve: Architecture diagrams showing package manager relationships, AI connector workflows #### 🔊 Aural learners - Present: Two-host discussion format with different perspectives - Improve: Timestamped audio segments for key topics #### 🗣️ Verbal learners - Present: Clear explanations of technical concepts, analogies like "WordPress as hammer" - Improve: Glossary of terms like "full-text search," "package managers," "AI connectors" #### 🧩 Kinesthetic learners - Present: Live demonstrations of my.wordpress.net and other tools - Improve: Step-by-step setup guides for WP Packages, hands-on AI integration labs #### 🧠 Logical learners - Present: Cause-and-effect analysis of legal battles impacting infrastructure - Improve: Decision trees for choosing package managers, timeline of WordPress AI development #### 🧑‍🤝‍🧑 Social learners - Present: Community discussion format, references to Slack conversations - Improve: Moderated Q&A sessions, community feedback integration #### 🧘‍♀️ Solitary learners - Present: Detailed technical explanations for independent study - Improve: Self-assessment questions, personal action planning worksheets #### 🌿 Naturalistic learners - Present: Ecosystem metaphors, discussion of WordPress community health - Improve: Environmental impact analysis of infrastructure choices ### 📊 Accessibility Assessment #### Screen reader semantics - Present: Clear topic transitions, speaker identification - Improve: Describe visual demonstrations, add structured headings to video chapters #### Keyboard navigation - Present: Standard YouTube video controls - Improve: Timestamped navigation links, keyboard shortcuts documentation #### Contrast and readability - Present: Clear video quality, readable screen sharing - Improve: High contrast mode for code demonstrations, larger text sizes #### Text resizing and reflow - Present: Responsive video player - Improve: Transcript formatting that adapts to zoom levels #### Media and captions - Present: YouTube auto-captions available - Improve: Professional transcript with technical term definitions, speaker labels #### Forms and interactions - Present: Standard video interaction patterns - Improve: Interactive code examples with accessible controls ### 🌍 DEIB Assessment #### Cultural breadth - Present: US-centric perspective on WordPress ecosystem - Improve: Global perspectives on open source governance, international hosting examples #### Inclusive language - Present: Technical jargon explained in context - Improve: Avoid metaphors like "cancer" even when critiquing their use, plain language summaries #### Neurodiversity support - Present: Clear topic structure, logical progression - Improve: Visual topic indicators, reduced rapid topic switching #### Representation - Present: Two experienced male voices in WordPress space - Improve: Diverse guest perspectives, varied demographic representation #### Psychological safety - Present: Respectful criticism of platforms and decisions - Improve: Content warnings for controversial topics, constructive framing ### ✅ Logical Validity #### Strong reasoning - Deductive strength: Clear progression from legal battles to infrastructure needs - Inductive strength: Pattern recognition in WordPress ecosystem changes - Causal reasoning: Linking private equity backing to reduced sponsorship - Analogical strength: "WordPress as hammer" effectively illustrates tool vs goal distinction #### Fallacies - False dilemma: Suggesting WordPress must prioritize commercial vs open source rather than balancing both - Slippery slope: Implying package manager fragmentation will inevitably harm ecosystem #### Tone of voice - Overall tone: Experienced practitioners sharing concerns with constructive criticism and actionable solutions ### 🛡️ DARVO Analysis - Deny: No significant denial patterns detected - Attack: Criticism remains focused on decisions and communications rather than personal attacks - Reverse victim/offender: No victim/offender role reversals identified - Emotional cues: Frustration expressed constructively toward improving WordPress ecosystem ## 🎯 Conclusion WordPress faces a critical juncture requiring urgent modernization for AI compatibility while addressing community governance challenges. The proliferation of alternative infrastructure like WP Packages signals both ecosystem fragmentation and healthy innovation pressure. Success depends on balancing commercial sustainability with open source community needs, improving technical integration with modern development workflows, and establishing clearer governance boundaries between Automattic's commercial interests and WordPress's community mission. ## 🧱 Refactor Appendix ### 📚 Literature Split Pad ### [H1] Package manager alternatives emerge from .org dependency concerns > [!quote] Breaking Changes Episode by Matt Cromwell, Matt Medeiros. Published 2024. Accessed 2025-01-17. > "WP packages is not dependent on wp.org in any way whatsoever" Corporate acquisitions and legal disputes drive infrastructure diversification. [view highlight](https://youtu.be/2TCuOVx1-j4?t=0#H1) #xref #articleseed ID:rw_pkg001 ### [H2] AI integration requires WordPress architectural changes > [!quote] Breaking Changes Episode > "AI understands CSS and it doesn't really very well understand full site editing" Full Site Editing proves inadequate for modern AI development workflows. [view highlight](https://youtu.be/2TCuOVx1-j4?t=1160#H2) #xref ID:rw_ai002 --- ### 🔖 Atomic Split Pad (Zettel Candidates) #### [Z1] MySQL full-text search dramatically improves WordPress admin - Applies to all WordPress installations with MySQL backend - Pointer to 29:30 timestamp discussion - Links: [[WordPress-Search]] [[Database-Optimization]] #### [Z2] Private equity backing reduces open source ecosystem sponsorship - Condition: When hosting companies seek quantifiable ROI on all spending - Pointer to 08:45 sponsorship discussion - Links: [[Open-Source-Funding]] [[Corporate-Governance]] --- ### ✏️ Fleeting Queue - [F1 --- ## Full Transcript [00:00] I'm Matt Cromwell from, uh, roots and Fruit, Matt Medeiros, WP [00:04] Minute, and Gravity Forms, and this is, uh, breaking Changes. [00:10] That's our intro folks. [00:11] I don't know. [00:11] What do you guys think? [00:16] Uh, yes. [00:16] Just two guys who've been doing this for decades combined [00:19] trying to figure things out. [00:21] Exactly. [00:22] Exactly right. [00:23] And in the middle of a whole bunch of like crazy, crazy, weird [00:27] changes happening all the time. [00:29] Yeah. [00:29] Um, in life and in WordPress. [00:32] Mm-hmm. [00:33] I said this last time, I'm gonna say it again. [00:36] When we first were like, Hey, let's do a thing and we'll do it. [00:39] You know what, however often it feels like it works. [00:43] And then we were looking for like a theme and we landed on breaking changes and [00:47] I was like, ah, but are changes really gonna be breaking every two weeks or so? [00:52] Uh, but so far yes, that has been absolutely the truth. [00:57] If, if we can't find things that are breaking, then we just, we break them [01:00] ourselves and then we talk about it. [01:02] That's, that's how it works. [01:04] Yeah. [01:05] Well, today we have some really interesting subjects to jump into. [01:10] Um, Matt, what's your vote? [01:13] Um, should we start with a softball or start with a hard ball? [01:17] Um, go with a softball, because I'm sharing this out right now. [01:20] I'm doing the manual labor of promoting the show. [01:23] Oh, okay. [01:23] So some of, some of your audience are, uh, not gonna get this at all. [01:28] Um, but, um, let's, uh, let's start with, um, then let's do this one here. [01:36] How about this? [01:37] Pull this one up. [01:38] I actually thought this was really interesting. [01:42] If you haven't heard, um, the folks from roots.io, um, gosh, you know what? [01:49] That's also such a deep pull, like Ben Word has been around [01:52] as long as you and I have. [01:54] And, um, just doing the hard work of trying to create like, good [01:59] dev infrastructure for WordPress. [02:01] Um, I mean, I definitely, uh, tried to use Roots way back in the day, um mm-hmm. [02:07] When, uh, you know, when it was all classic themes and, um, IT roots came [02:12] around and just was like, no, we're gonna make the whole theming structure a really [02:17] robust web dev forward, uh, system. [02:21] And they did, um, WordPress theming in a way nobody else was doing. [02:25] Um, honestly, I thought that they weren't doing all that much anymore, [02:28] but Ben Word has been out there, uh, chiming in again, because I think a [02:33] lot of the work that he's always been doing is all of a sudden very compatible [02:37] with AI in a lot of different ways. [02:40] Um, but, um, he, uh, you know, WP Engine, let's start, let's, [02:45] let's pull back a little bit. [02:46] WP Engine acquired, um, WP Packages. [02:52] Which, if you don't know what that is, it's essentially a way [02:55] that you can install any plugin from a command line, um, on your, [03:01] on your WordPress environment. [03:03] Um, it's a cool product, uh, not a product, really cool infrastructure tool. [03:08] Um, and it, you know, you definitely can install plugins very quickly that way. [03:14] The kicker about that, uh, related to like the whole, um, WP drama that's [03:19] been going on, of course, is that, um, WP packages, um, is not dependent [03:25] on wp.org in any way whatsoever. [03:29] Um, and that should ring some bells for folks who are paying attention lately. [03:33] Uh, there a reason. [03:34] How does, well, how, how does it not, like how does it keep getting [03:38] updates of packages and code? [03:40] Like how does it stay relevant and up to date to what, what, what's [03:44] available on.org or is that the idea where it doesn't need it, it's [03:48] already cloned at once and then. [03:50] That it, how, how does it stay relevant with its packages? [03:54] It's, I think it's a good one because actually now that you make me think about [03:58] it, it, it has to be somewhat dependent. [04:02] So like, once the whole thing went down where, uh, automatic, uh, cutoff [04:07] WP engine from uh, dot org, from their plugin screen area, uh, you know, WP [04:12] Engine and a whole bunch of other folks were like, let's create a mirror of.org [04:16] so that we're not dependent on.org. [04:19] But the truth is like, okay, you created a mirror, um, but that mirror still has [04:24] to sync with.org in one form or another. [04:27] So there's always that part. [04:29] So it's packages dis similar. [04:31] The delivery infrastructure has nothing to do with.org whatsoever. [04:35] Uh, you take the package straight from WP packages and it goes straight to your. [04:40] Your, um, local desktop or whatnot. [04:44] Um, but for packages to be updated continually, it's [04:48] gonna have to pull from.org. [04:51] I think the idea is that like there are so much activity going on behind [04:56] the scenes on.org, there's so many different systems and internal [05:01] structures that are hitting that, that plugin, API endpoint on wordpress.org. [05:06] That, that there's not like an obvious like way to just, um, block you from, [05:13] um, getting your plugin updates. [05:15] Um, yeah, and, and, and I, I just wanna help define it. [05:19] For anyone who's like, not super technical though, I fear that 98% of [05:22] our audience is, uh, and, uh, I know if Ian Meisner's in the crowd, uh, he [05:27] definitely knows what this stuff is. [05:29] This is not the same as like the fair package manager, right? [05:32] This is stuff that is. [05:35] Um, you know, if you started doing any kind of vibe coding thing lately and [05:39] Claude Code or whatever of your favorite tool asks you, Hey, do you wanna install [05:43] this, uh, f fm peg, you know, before you transcode a MP three file to a [05:49] video or whatever, it will reach out and install something generally through NPM. [05:54] Yeah. [05:55] And, uh, and install and activate that. [05:57] Uh, that's kind of what this does Great for local development and [06:00] of course great for AI stuff. [06:02] Exactly. [06:03] That's Got it. [06:04] Really good. [06:05] Uh, example, it's like NPM, um, little bit more dependent on composer, uh, of course. [06:12] Um, and not NPM, but, um, similar idea. [06:15] Um, yeah, so delivery structure totally independent from.org. [06:20] Um, but, um, how they keep themselves updated all the time. [06:23] They're gonna have to ping against.org in one form or another. [06:26] Um, but they can just like rotate IP addresses or whatever [06:29] if they wanna keep it safe. [06:32] Got it. [06:34] So he did get a, it, it was originally called WP Composer. [06:39] Um, but the, uh, founder and author of Composer reached out to him and said, Hey, [06:43] you know, honestly, that's not really the right way to talk about what you're doing. [06:48] Um, and um, really kind of pushed him that this just happened. [06:52] I think yesterday he wrote a blog post about it as well. [06:55] So now it's called WP Packages. [06:58] Um, I don't love that WP Packages versus WP W packages. [07:03] It just feels very confusing. [07:06] Yeah. [07:06] But his whole push is just like, okay, WP Engine owns W packages now that means [07:12] their corporate interests will drive how that, uh, repository is managed. [07:18] Uh, it's private now, essentially not a public resource. [07:22] WP Engine has said the opposite, um, that they're just gonna, they're just gonna [07:27] maintain it like it always has been. [07:29] Um, but he's like, no, we need independence. [07:32] So, uh, at the same time, like he's a private entity and he's managing WP [07:39] Packages, so, um, he's not a big corporate private equity backed entity, but he [07:44] is still a private entity, you know? [07:46] Right. [07:46] Uh, there's, as far as I understand, there's no real governance [07:49] of WP packages either, so. [07:51] Mm-hmm. [07:52] Um, but yet, um, I, I have a feeling he, he would like it to be that way. [07:58] Does, is there a way to support the work that I see the sponsor [08:02] button right there, right? [08:03] Is that what that says? [08:04] Sponsor? [08:04] Yep. [08:04] So when you click on that sponsor, does that allow you, what does that do? [08:09] Let's take a look. [08:09] Let's take a look. [08:11] Uh, yeah. [08:12] Sponsor him on GitHub, basically. [08:14] Gotcha. [08:15] Yeah. [08:15] But this looks like sponsor roots do io, you know? [08:19] Mm-hmm. [08:19] And that's, that's his, uh, that's Ben right there. [08:22] That's, uh, you know, that's, that's a little bit of what I'm saying. [08:26] Like, uh, okay, I'm gonna sponsor WP Packages, but what [08:30] I'm actually sponsoring is Roots. [08:31] Mm-hmm. [08:32] Um, and their support of WP packages. [08:36] If this, uh, from everything Ben has been saying he wants it to be community [08:41] driven, I have a feeling that we're gonna start seeing him try to get more [08:46] folks involved in one way or another. [08:49] Yeah. [08:50] Uh, you know, I. Obviously really appreciate when somebody does something, [08:55] uh, innovative and they start to, you know, take the charge on something, [08:59] whatever it is, whether it's this package manager versus another package manager. [09:03] Um, cool. [09:04] It's great. [09:04] Uh, innovation, I think a lot of innovation, not even just [09:08] in WordPress, happens in, uh, in the tug of war scenario. [09:12] One set of people going one way, another set of people going the other. [09:15] Somewhere in the middle something happens and we find something either new or, [09:20] um, something that, you know, helps turn the tide for, uh, innovation, but [09:25] the rubber's going to meet the road for individuals who do things like this. [09:30] If and when they can, they can steer and drive sponsorship. [09:34] Mm-hmm. [09:35] Um, because it, it's, it's after a while, as you and I know really well, if you [09:45] are just one person trying to carry the. [09:48] All of this weight on your shoulders to get it done, put all these things [09:51] across the pull, all these things across the finish line, um, and [09:53] you're not getting paid for it. [09:55] It's gonna be a tough road. [09:57] You know, I don't know how much overhead goes into like, supporting this stuff, [10:00] but I think if he's critically thinking of this stuff, uh, it's taking time [10:03] somewhere and there are going to be the same challenges that heck, you could even [10:08] say, uh, Matt was, uh, uh, Mullenweg was, you know, trying to, to challenge the [10:14] whole idea of open source and contributing and, you know, pulling your own weight. [10:17] Uh, and I think for an individual like this, it gets, you [10:20] know, a hundred times harder. [10:21] Um, if you are trying to make a living and doing this stuff [10:24] and no one's supporting it. [10:26] Um, that's a, I mean, look at the fair package manager, right? [10:30] Like that needed adoption from big companies in order to get distribution. [10:36] Without it, it was a hard road to. [10:39] It's a till. [10:39] And we saw what happened with that and uh, hopefully he gets some sponsorship. [10:43] Um, hopefully the sponsorship stuff looks a little bit clearer, right? [10:48] Yeah, it's, it's for supporting the WP Packages project. [10:52] Um, or you get scooped up by automatic, it automatic runs the whole thing. [10:56] You know, one of the two. [10:57] Yeah. [10:59] Yeah. [10:59] That definitely could be in the cards. [11:01] Uh, but um, yeah, the way that Ben has been talking about it, I feel like that's [11:06] definitely not his agenda, but yeah. [11:09] Um, you wanna go over here? [11:12] Let's do it because you had a related thought on this stuff. [11:17] Ah. [11:17] I do. [11:19] That's a great segue, Matt. [11:20] That was an unplanned segue. [11:23] So, uh, brief call to action. [11:25] Uh, the WP Minute launched its, uh, second, third, and fourth [11:30] course over the last 72 hours. [11:32] But the second course, uh, the higher smart and scope, right, this is one that's [11:35] taught, instructed by, uh, Eric Kovac. [11:38] Uh, this one is about, um, getting, uh, better projects, scoping [11:45] better projects, pricing better projects, uh, for an agency. [11:49] So if you're a brand new agency freelancer, getting into the WordPress [11:51] space, especially through the lens of ai, how do you do this stuff? [11:54] How do you make sure you're building a sustainable agency? [11:57] This is a great course for you. [11:59] And if you're already a seasoned veteran in that and you know [12:02] how to do pricing, but maybe. [12:04] You wanna send your client to this course because we're not [12:07] saying who, which agency to pick. [12:09] We're just thinking, we're just talking about how to think about [12:11] doing a great WordPress project. [12:13] It'll be a great course for your, your client in a pre-sales process [12:17] to say all the things I'm asking for. [12:19] Reinforced right here in this free course. [12:22] You take the course, you learn what is needed from a successful WordPress [12:25] project, and then come back to us and, and we can work or you make it [12:28] part of your whole presales process. [12:29] So you're an agency freelancer would love for you to register for that course. [12:33] Everything's completely free thanks to our sponsors and that's where I go [12:39] with the fourth course that we launch, which is sponsoring WordPress Media. [12:43] I put together a course for anyone who is thinking about sponsoring WordPress [12:48] media and how to think about, uh, spending those dollars and what those dollars mean. [12:54] At least, you know, it's a little bit biased 'cause it's. [12:56] From my perspective at the WP Minute, but I do invite anyone who's thinking about [13:02] either sponsoring WP product Talk, the repository, uh, Bob's show, like shows. [13:09] Mm-hmm. [13:09] Network. [13:09] You just launched another one this week. [13:11] You just launched another one. [13:11] I, I, I, I can't follow, um, anyone who's thinking about spending that money. [13:17] Um, you know, much like a developer who might be doing, you know, free [13:21] maintenance and free de development of a package manager for all of WordPress. [13:25] I look at that the same way that, you know, you and I, Matt and, and [13:28] others in the space that I respect how we do content for WordPress. [13:32] Um, you know, we're not, I mean, largely a lot of us are talking about real [13:37] inside baseball stuff, stuff that is really impacting the WordPress community [13:42] and the stakeholders in the community, which then tra trickles down to our [13:45] customers and our clients and our users. [13:47] Um, so it's not this massive space. [13:50] It's not, you know. [13:52] Our friends at WP Beginner, like it's not a WP beginner, uh, you know, millions [13:58] of page views, or I don't even know what he gets, but millions of page [14:01] views a year, uh, type of property. [14:04] This is hyper-focused stuff that you and me and others do. [14:09] So that course is going to get sponsors in the mindset of what does that mean to us? [14:15] What does that mean for brand lift, brand loyalty? [14:19] Um, we know we're not gonna get a million clicks a month from [14:22] sponsoring the WP Minute, so how can we think about the value? [14:26] How can we tell better stories? [14:28] Um, at the end of the day, all of our traffic's down everyone. [14:32] And, uh, traffic isn't gonna, you know, folks who are so busy consuming [14:37] so much content, uh, are not going to want content just from a brand. [14:42] And folks like Matt and I and others exist. [14:47] To help those brands get the word out and our different ways of doing it. [14:50] Right? [14:51] Mine is particularly about sponsorship and others have different avenues for that. [14:55] So we put that course together, uh, so that we could help anyone doing WordPress [15:01] media get some more sponsor dollars. [15:03] Hopefully a hundred percent. [15:04] I love it. [15:05] It's, it's becoming more and more significant. [15:08] I'll, I'll, I'll share a little bit. [15:10] I was chatting with our mutual friend Raquel, um, about upcoming press [15:15] comp and all those kinds of things. [15:17] Talking with Rodolfo, who's, uh, organizing, um, the checkout summit, [15:22] um, talking with Ray at the repository, um, all of them are saying that [15:29] sponsorship dollars are scarce lately. [15:33] Um, and I, I'll just my take on it from, you know, a little bit inside, [15:38] a little bit outside looking in, um. [15:42] Twofold. [15:43] One is I do think that the whole, uh, WP Engine drama legal battles, um, are making [15:51] everybody skittish in one form or another. [15:53] Um, less interested in investing in the broader WordPress ecosystem, [16:00] more interested in investing in their own, um, pocketbooks. [16:04] Um, which makes sense. [16:06] It just is, is not always been that way. [16:08] Um, and the other one is honestly that for as long as we've been doing this, [16:15] the, like, what, what would you say, 90% of sponsorship dollars come from [16:20] hosting companies, um, ish, right? [16:25] Mm-hmm. [16:25] And recently, you know, more and more of the big giant hosting companies [16:29] are private equity backed, uh, some sort of big, um, uh, funding backed [16:36] in one form or another, and they're all playing the same playbook where. [16:41] Every single dollar that they spend has to be tied to some sort of [16:46] ROI and it's hard or impossible to justify these kinds of sponsorships [16:52] when you are, when you're looking at your corporation through that lens. [16:57] Um, I'm saying that in the nicest way possible, but the truth is [17:00] what I'm saying is private equity is squeezing hosting companies. [17:03] So hosting companies are not sponsoring anymore. [17:06] Um, I think that's a space where folks that are not private equity [17:11] backed, who do have a lot more leeway and, and um, ability to [17:16] make their decisions can step in. [17:18] So where a GoDaddy or whatnot would have, um, formally dominated the [17:24] hosting space with the largest booth and everything like that, something like. [17:28] Big scoots. [17:28] Well, actually I think they're private equity back too, aren't they? [17:32] Um, or Rapid Cloud, um, is, uh, can step in, um, where they couldn't [17:37] have as easily before, honestly. [17:40] Um, yeah, I don't know. [17:42] Just to, just to some of the thoughts that have been in my mind that I [17:46] feel like more folks have to like, acknowledge and recognize in some ways. [17:51] You know, there's, there's something that, um, I DMed you another, another link and, [17:57] and it doesn't all have to be about me today, but in this, in the sponsoring w [18:01] WordPress Media course, I talk about how a brand has to, a brand who's sponsoring [18:08] has to think that, especially for those of us who are doing it, like you and I, and [18:13] I don't mean to cast on anybody else, but I feel like we're we're doing work that. [18:17] A lot of folks won't cover, 'cause it doesn't get a lot of traffic. [18:20] So you have to think 50% of that for a sponsor. [18:23] At least this is how I do it. [18:24] I could be wrong. [18:25] I maybe, maybe I could get more sponsors, maybe. [18:28] Maybe. [18:28] I don't know. [18:29] But, uh, I like to tell the sponsors 50% of this payment [18:35] goes to helping us do the work. [18:38] Mm-hmm. [18:38] Like that's why you're, you're, you're sponsoring us because you look at the work [18:42] that we do, you value the work that we do. [18:46] So 50% of the sponsorship is that, and then 50% of it, depending [18:50] on which sponsorship level you're at, the WP Minute, we're [18:54] doing something else with you. [18:55] We're helping tell a story, we're consulting with you. [18:58] Like, there's other things that we do. [19:00] So you have to get yourself in the mindset of you wanna support us first. [19:05] Like, you want us to continue to do this work because you [19:08] think it's good for everybody. [19:10] Um, which, you know, I think is important on the other side. [19:15] And. [19:18] This video that you have up right here is, can I Save WordPress? [19:22] What I find as well is, look, there's a lot of small business owners in the [19:28] WordPress space, freelancers, agency owners, small products who don't support [19:32] in any way, shape or fashion, and it drives me absolutely bonkers, you know? [19:37] Mm-hmm. [19:37] Mm-hmm. [19:38] And I, I give you an example, and again, I, I don't mean this just [19:43] for the WP Minute, but I, I see this for other communities and other [19:46] organizations, you have to step up and engage and interact with others, right? [19:55] As somebody who's been producing media for so long, the amount of [19:59] times that people will like eye roll my videos like, can I save WordPress? [20:05] Or some rant that I have about the blue collar digital worker. [20:10] Then also be like, this whole place is burning down. [20:12] I'm going out of business. [20:14] Mm-hmm. [20:14] You gotta find a lane on where to support. [20:17] I try to get people, one of the biggest objectives I have at the WP Men is [20:21] to help people get their story out. [20:23] And I invite people into the community for free, um, or for $79 [20:29] to support the work that we do. [20:31] But how many times I see people join and don't interact and don't engage, [20:35] don't talk about their story, and, you know, don't network with others. [20:40] And I just, I just pulled my hair out. [20:42] I'm like, if I had, if I wasn't making the platform, I'd be looking [20:46] for a platform like this, you know, to engage in, I mean, especially a [20:51] platform that has a direction and that has a leader in it that like, that's, [20:58] that's what I would be looking for. [21:00] Um, and it, it boggles the mind that there's so many people who don't get [21:03] involved at that level, but have, you know, will take to Twitter or wherever [21:07] and be like, oh my God, I'm, you know. [21:10] What do I do? [21:11] You know, business is down. [21:13] Uh, I don't know how to sell. [21:14] I don't wanna sell. [21:16] Uh, it's, it's just extremely frustrating to see it year after. [21:19] I mean, for so long, for 15 years, people having that same, um, so [21:26] yeah, it, it, it gets, it gets really frustrating, um, especially when [21:30] people say, well, look at, let's say my sponsor list and be like, I can't [21:34] believe you let that person sponsor, bro. [21:38] I need to eat. [21:40] Yeah. [21:40] I have a team to pay. [21:42] And by the way, you know how many people I do turn down that [21:46] come to the sponsorship list? [21:48] There's many, many, many, many, uh, that will come and say, Hey, [21:52] we wanna do this deal with you, pay you whatever, do all these other [21:55] YouTube videos, blah, blah, blah. [21:56] No, no. [21:56] Thank you. [21:57] Um, so there's things that, that people don't see on the other side [22:00] of the fence, but are people willing to say, we like the work that you do, [22:03] and we're willing to support that. [22:05] Then we'll pay you to do it. [22:06] This goes back to what we were just talking about with the WP packages thing. [22:09] Like people have to take that side serious about sponsorship and driving [22:14] revenue for the thing that they're doing. [22:16] Otherwise, that thing that they're doing goes away. [22:19] Yeah. [22:19] Uh, you know, whether you like it or not. [22:21] Yeah. [22:22] Um, you know, the thing I put out and, and this kind of goes, we can [22:26] transition to the harder topic, which was the cancer in the clubhouse comment [22:30] from, uh, from the wordpress.org, um, you know, Twitter account and [22:35] you know, specifically referencing WP Engine, um, about whatever it was. [22:41] I forgot. [22:41] Oh, about the, about the acquisition. [22:43] I forgot that that's, that was what it was about actually. [22:46] Yes. [22:47] So it was about that, about that acquisition or, or whatever. [22:49] Yeah. [22:50] And it's like, I mean, I, I, I could dominate the, I don't want to like [22:55] dominate the, the conversation around my God, please stop doing this shit, [22:58] but my God, please stop doing this shit. [23:00] 'cause it, it doesn't help anyone. [23:05] Right. [23:05] So the only perceivable thing that I [23:11] can see with like a, a strategy like this, if this is even a strategy, is [23:15] it's either somebody's got the, you know, someone with a IQ of a child is [23:21] running the Twitter account and that person has been granted authority [23:27] to just go out and be an instigator. [23:29] Mm-hmm. [23:30] Because it's fun, right? [23:32] So there's that, or the strategy is, hey, we're just gonna burn [23:35] down everything because ultimately. [23:39] The only way WordPress survives is if automatic survives. [23:42] And we don't, technically, we don't need anyone and we're [23:44] just gonna do it ourselves. [23:45] Yeah. [23:45] Which would be a perfectly plausible path. [23:50] P, PPA perfectly plausible path to success for them. [23:55] They could say, we don't need anybody else. [23:56] We don't need any of this stuff. [23:58] We just need to focus on automatic. [24:00] And people in a conference room would say, yeah, you're right. [24:05] That's the best path forward. [24:06] Why are you doing all this stuff? [24:09] So that could be, that could be the idea where it's just like, [24:11] burn, burn all the bridges. [24:12] Who cares? [24:13] We don't need anybody. [24:14] I hope that's not the strategy, but that's what it's feeling like. [24:16] It's either Yeah, child iq or we're gonna burn the bridges because this shit [24:21] just continues to make us all look bad. [24:25] Yeah. [24:25] And people were already losing traction to ai, like stuff that [24:30] you wrote about in your piece. [24:32] We don't need this. [24:33] This does not help anyone look at us and go, yeah, I want WordPress. [24:38] Yeah. [24:39] Yeah. [24:40] It's, it's embarrassing. [24:41] I, I have, uh, friends and family who work in different areas of technology. [24:46] Um, I have some, um, my sister, uh, uh, built with Python, um, and, uh, other [24:54] folks who do, uh, all kinds of things. [24:56] And I mean, I hate to bring up tech with them ever. [24:59] 'cause they're like, how's WordPress going, Matt? [25:02] Like, cool, thanks folks. [25:05] Um, it's, it's, it is hard. [25:09] It is embarrassing, it is difficult. [25:11] Um, maybe there's a strategy behind it. [25:14] I, like, I, there's gotta be something in between those two extremes that you [25:18] highlighted in one form or another. [25:21] Um, this can't be good for the ongoing litigation that's happening. [25:25] This can't be good for that. [25:27] Um, and, um, I mean either it is or it is in it. [25:29] I mean, the, on the, on the stra the strategic side, if this was a strategy [25:33] that's being deployed, it's, oh my God, look how hard WP Engine makes it for us. [25:37] We, we must, we must be able to look at, look how offended we get, you know, [25:42] like, yeah, look what they're doing. [25:43] You know? [25:44] Yeah. [25:44] Um, so, you know, there, there's that. [25:47] But, um, I mean, and you could see, I mean, fortunately it didn't drive [25:51] all kinds of comments, but, you know, everybody's just mocking it. [25:55] It was just eye rolling at this point. [25:57] Yeah, yeah. [25:58] It's hard. [25:58] Um, but, but it, it, in the piece that I put in that video that I put out, [26:03] which was largely inspired by this, was, um, you know, can I save WordPress? [26:09] A year ago to the day or year ago, to the month roughly, I'd put [26:13] out a piece, uh, about, you know, we're never 'cause the debate. [26:17] The debate back then was like, oh my God, how are we marketing WordPress? [26:20] We were in the thick of things with the WP Engine stuff. [26:23] I was, you know, people still debating should we have [26:25] marketing on the make doc teams? [26:26] I think that is done. [26:27] Don't even bother, don't even try. [26:29] Uh, and why would you? [26:30] Right, so the, my point of view was at the time grassroots movement, [26:35] everyone comes together and, and, and focuses on one call to action [26:39] for marketing, WordPress, whatever. [26:41] It's every quarter, every twice a year. [26:44] And you just get one big initiative every quarter or every six months pushing on one [26:49] particular marketing topic for WordPress and then we all just disperse and do that [26:54] on our own personal or business channels. [26:57] Right. [26:57] Why WordPress? [26:58] Like that was my fault to action at the time. [27:01] Uh, I put out a bunch of stuff about why WordPress publish on the WP Minute, and, [27:05] um, since then I think only one person really took heed to the call and she [27:10] actually posted it a couple weeks ago. [27:12] So that was great. [27:13] Um. [27:15] Something like this is just a, an evolution of that thought [27:19] is, can I save WordPress? [27:21] Like the work that I'm doing now at the WP Minute is about elevating [27:25] the experience of WordPress. [27:26] Like, we want to make sure that people still want to use this, teach them how [27:31] to use it, understand what makes it work, right, and then how to find and, and help [27:36] and, and contribute to the community. [27:38] So that's my initiative, right? [27:40] Mm-hmm. [27:40] Whether people agree with me or not, and what I'm calling for is [27:44] for people to do the same thing. [27:46] Can I say WordPress? [27:47] Can you save WordPress? [27:48] Because they're not coming to help us. [27:50] Yeah. [27:52] Let's get that clear. [27:53] Right? [27:54] I, I pulled from my experience with the, you know, the blizzard that we had [27:58] last month when everyone was literally stuck in their homes going, what? [28:01] When are they coming? [28:01] When are they coming? [28:02] They're not coming. [28:03] Yeah. [28:03] They can't get here. [28:05] At what point do you say help's not coming. [28:08] I'm going, we're going to do our, we're gonna save ourselves. [28:12] And then hopefully, you know, meet up in the middle of the city square later on. [28:17] Um, and I just, you know, it's like my last hurrah. [28:22] Yeah. [28:22] With this stuff, you know, where I can't, I can't say this anymore. [28:26] Um, you know, uh, maybe I need a bigger platform, uh, to get this stuff out. [28:31] But I, I hope other people, you know, will, will do the same thing. [28:36] Um, because this stuff sucks. [28:38] When you see these tweets come out, it does, you realize [28:41] they're not gonna help you. [28:42] So how do we help each other get through this instead of just [28:46] talking shit about each other? [28:48] Yeah. [28:48] Anyway, I'll say, I'll be a little bit. [28:52] I don't know what the right word is, but I'll just say like, the way I've [28:56] been thinking about the whole subject more and more, um, is always through [29:03] analogy in so many ways, but like, like, okay, we're all carpenters [29:08] and, um, we all use the same hammer. [29:12] Um, and this hammer is starting to, uh, not be a great reflection of [29:18] our work in one form or another. [29:20] And so all we're talking about all the time is this dumb, stupid fricking hammer. [29:25] And if it would just be a better hammer that wasn't so obnoxious, [29:30] then everything would be better. [29:31] But the truth is the hammer isn't the goal, like right. [29:36] The goal is that we're getting better outcomes on a website or getting [29:40] better, uh, search results to a website or helping a client understand [29:44] their branding better or help, you know, like these are all the goals. [29:48] Um, like a carpenter's goal isn't having a great hammer, it's to [29:52] building a great house, you know? [29:54] Um, yeah, I mean, in so many ways folks have been saying that the, [29:58] the analogy is that, that, that maybe WordPress is the house. [30:03] I'm saying like, no, no, I think WordPress is a hammer and that's it. [30:08] That's all it is. [30:09] And there are lots of hammers out there. [30:11] There are lots of 'em, you know. [30:13] Um, and if this one isn't gonna serve the purposes for my clients, then [30:17] I'm gonna use a different hammer. [30:19] Um, that's the bottom line. [30:20] And like if my, if Matt Cromwell 2012, Matt Cromwell heard 2026 [30:27] Matt Cromwell saying these things. [30:28] He'd be like, freaked out to death. [30:30] 'cause WordPress has meant so much to so many people for so long. [30:35] But at this stage I'm just really like, but it is just a hammer folks. [30:40] Mm-hmm. [30:40] Um, it is just a hammer. [30:42] Um, and nevertheless, we're having these multimillion dollar legal [30:46] suits about this fricking hammer, and I'm just kind of like, ugh, I [30:51] just wanna see some good results. [30:52] Like, that's Seriously, Matt, we talked about it two, two weeks ago. [30:56] Your whole thing where you went out and solved all your whole city's, uh, [31:01] snowplow problems with not WordPress. [31:04] With not WordPress. [31:05] With not WordPress. [31:06] Yeah. [31:07] Right. [31:08] Um, because it wasn't the right hammer for that job. [31:10] Correct. [31:11] Um, you were not going to be able to vibe code that in two [31:14] hours with WordPress at all. [31:17] Which, ooh, another really slick, um, uh, transition piece right there. [31:24] Um, like if, if we want WordPress to be more than a hammer, it's gonna have to get [31:32] a lot better than what it is right now. [31:34] Like, I've been beating this up a lot, um, myself in a lot of different ways. [31:39] 'cause I'm doing almost everything I can with AI right now. [31:43] And I'll tell you, my biggest non-AI work is building out [31:48] landing pages in WordPress. [31:51] Um, I mean, I, the there, the one cool hack is like you can switch to code view, [31:56] grab all the block editor, um, styles, drop that into cursor and say, Hey, give [32:01] me the new updated content with this, uh. [32:05] Um, and that works overall, you know, um, but that's still a bunch of copy [32:09] and paste and back and forth, and I could probably figure something [32:13] out with MCP and there are folks who are doing some really cool stuff. [32:17] Um, Andy Ling, um, for, uh, built, uh, miles by Ai miles ai. [32:25] Um, and, um, it's pretty incredible. [32:29] I'm working on a, a, a bit of a review piece of that platform. [32:33] Um, but in his work I talked with him a lot about it. [32:38] Um, if you look at a, a miles website that's been generated, what [32:43] you'll see is basically a, a theme that is essentially an empty shell. [32:50] Um, a bunch of core blocks, and then five miles of custom CSS. [32:58] Um, like five miles of custom CSS And why? [33:03] Because AI understands CSS and it doesn't really very well understand [33:09] full site editing and WordPress. [33:11] Um, that's my take, and people in the comments can tell me I'm wrong, but [33:15] like I talked with Andy about it a bit. [33:17] I'm not gonna say a hundred percent agreed with me, but he said that like [33:20] he is going the custom CSS route because it was more accessible for him than [33:25] trying to strong arm, um, full site editing into doing the kinds of layouts [33:30] that he was trying to accomplish. [33:32] Yeah. [33:33] So all of that for me is like, why the heck are we building Google [33:36] docs when full site editing is not even ready for AI right now? [33:42] I even, I, I, I wrote a, an issue, um, about, um. [33:49] Design tokens. [33:50] Design tokens are not surface very well for AI purposes at all. [33:54] I sent it over to the core AI team. [33:56] I haven't heard a whole lot. [33:58] They're really focused on the, the infrastructure part. [34:00] But to me, the thing that the AI team needs to be focused on the [34:03] most right now is making full site editing, very AI friendly. [34:08] Like we should be able to interact with a, um, a, a WordPress theme [34:12] the way that we interact with Astro. [34:15] And if we can't do that, then yeah, WordPress has a very short shelf life. [34:20] Um, if we can't get ahead of that game, 'cause it will get more [34:24] and more and more easy to just spin up a site and maintain it. [34:28] This is the thing everybody keeps saying, oh, you could spin up a [34:31] site, but you can't maintain it. [34:33] What do you mean? [34:34] Your site is a bunch of markdown files? [34:37] Like when it comes to Astro, it's a bunch of markdown files [34:39] and a bunch of tailwind stuff. [34:42] It's not rocket science, it's not overly challenging and it's not hard to maintain. [34:47] It all goes to GitHub and can get pushed in lots of different places. [34:52] Yeah. [34:53] Now, can your marketing team go in and style and design a [34:58] perfect landing page with it? [35:00] Not really. [35:00] You know, they're, they're gonna have to do that with AI and you're gonna [35:04] have to set up some sort of like pre-flight way to look at it before it [35:08] gets shipped and all that kind of thing. [35:10] So there's still downsides on the astro side as well. [35:13] Um, but that's a little bit of my, my soapbox right now. [35:18] I'm just like, I think if we want to continue to use this hammer. [35:23] We're gonna have to make it, you know, a sledgehammer, it's gonna have [35:27] to be an AI friendly sledgehammer. [35:30] Um, yeah, I, it's gonna take a lot more work than what we've done so far. [35:34] I saw, I, I sent you another link, um, that'll accompany this conversation. [35:38] Um, but I, I saw you take, I, I won't call it heat, but you know, I saw [35:42] some folks in the WP Minute, um, maybe challenging you on the whole, like, do [35:46] we really need to push AI that much? [35:48] And, and maybe you saw some on Twitter as well, or LinkedIn, wherever, [35:51] wherever else you posted this. [35:52] No, just, just your Slack, Matt. [35:53] It was only your Slack. [35:54] Okay. [35:56] That's kind of community culture we have at the WP Minute join for free. [35:59] Uh, the, so, um, yeah, I, I, I'm at the whole with AI as a whole, I'm like. [36:10] In the middle, but on the urgency side, like a year ago, I was in the middle, [36:16] but on the, I don't know if this thing is gonna work side, but now I'm kind of [36:20] like, all right, we gotta kind of start leaning to do things with this stuff. [36:23] Um, I, I have a couple thread of thought because I did another YouTube video when [36:29] they announced the, which we'll talk about in a, in, I guess in a moment, but the, [36:33] the, my wordpress.net stuff, which was like, um, we're doing all like this cool [36:40] AI stuff with like the connectors and 7.0. [36:43] And by cool, I mean, I'm like, okay, we are, we're, we're setting the groundwork. [36:47] It, it wasn't something that is overstating AI into the experience. [36:54] Do I have my, you know, reservations about it? [36:57] I do, but at least now it's enabling at the core of [37:01] WordPress, fricking AI connectors. [37:04] Right. [37:04] That's what they're called. [37:05] Yeah. [37:05] So I'm like, okay, at least we're, we're getting there. [37:08] And I understand that. [37:09] Open source moves slow. [37:10] So at least we're there coming in April. [37:13] Um, but I, but, but I agree with you as just like, man, do we, [37:21] do we continue down the path of that Google Docs like experience? [37:24] Like is that the priority is now more than ever, we should be able [37:28] to shift priorities to say we need to make sure WordPress stays [37:33] relevant and in the conversation. [37:35] So one, stop tweeting stupid stuff. [37:38] Two, let's make cool features that people are actually gonna want. [37:42] I mean, I like collab. [37:43] Yes. [37:43] Do I want that in WordPress? [37:45] Absolutely. [37:46] But we don't have the manpower. [37:48] I mean, I think it's gonna happen anyway, but the, we're not, I look at [37:51] it as like, oh man, all hands on deck with making this an attractive platform. [37:57] The, again, the more business side of me is the article that you [38:00] have up on the screen right now. [38:02] 'cause as of today, uh, wordpress.com announced that, uh, you can now. [38:06] Do the editing of the site and the content and stuff through the MCP, uh [38:11] uh, specifically through wordpress.com. [38:13] And when I think about and theorize the strategies of, of automatic [38:18] and, and surviving, and I've been saying this Matt for years. [38:21] Yeah. [38:21] That you will go to wordpress.org one day and it will say the best way to experience [38:27] WordPress is go to wordpress.com. [38:29] Yeah. [38:29] I I'm, I'm like, if they don't do it, I'm gonna like advise them to do it with you. [38:35] It needs to happen that way. [38:37] Yes. [38:37] It needs to happen that way. [38:39] And it's, that's the uncomfortable conversation that a lot of [38:42] people don't want to hear. [38:43] But when I look at any successful commercial company. [38:47] Software company. [38:48] It's generally, we've got this thing you can buy and you can get [38:52] this thing over here for free. [38:54] Yeah. [38:54] Buy it. [38:55] If you don't wanna do all the hassle and fuss of DIY, then we can do it for you. [38:59] That's a hundred percent the WordPress model. [39:02] It just has never been au run or operated that way. [39:05] Yeah. [39:05] I mean, I'm with you on this. [39:06] Like, the fact that we're seeing the first time, that word, that automatic, [39:11] let's say automatic is saying to the world, Hey, vibe coders meet WordPress. [39:16] It's not wordpress.org, it's wordpress.com. [39:19] That to me is like, finally, because yeah, you're, uh, it's a, it's a hard [39:24] conversation that a lot of, especially plugin shops, uh, high plugin shops, um, [39:29] they, uh, they don't want to hear, um, that we need to benefit automatic first. [39:35] But I'm with you a hundred percent. [39:36] Like if we, if automatic doesn't survive, then we don't have a project anymore. [39:43] Um, correct, correct. [39:44] Yeah. [39:45] Um. [39:46] So I'm not saying like that's, you know, that's the strategy of like the slow [39:50] rolling stuff of, of wordpress.org or, or, or the open source version of WordPress. [39:54] But, um, it is something that could happen and, uh, you know, uh, we're [39:59] obviously not gonna get into a debate of like, who should be contributing [40:02] to WordPress and all this other stuff. [40:04] And yes, like you can always look back and say, oh, Matt's right. [40:06] We have to have everybody pull their weight and do their [40:08] thing, so this is all better. [40:10] Um, you know, but it's, um, I'm, I'm happy with what they're setting up in [40:16] WordPress seven with the connectors. [40:20] It's interesting that like the first time a paid thing or a, I don't know if we [40:24] talked about this on the last show, but I think it's interesting that the first [40:27] time we'll have a paid thing in WordPress core is not automatic or jet pack. [40:32] It's a, yeah. [40:32] API key that you buy from somebody else. [40:36] Um, but I think, think it's the right move to slowly roll this out to, to [40:41] have things happen inside of WordPress. [40:43] Bring your own, bring your own chat bot. [40:45] We don't need a chat bot in WordPress. [40:47] Bring your own chat bot to the table and that's fine with me. [40:49] So, yeah. [40:50] Um, yeah, I mean, I, I do agree with you. [40:53] There's definitely some urgency to keep this thing going and, uh, you [40:56] know, I don't know if the Google Docs experience is the thing. [40:59] Yeah. [41:00] Yeah. [41:00] And I mean, they'd have, uh, uh, essentially paused that for [41:05] going into 7.0 at this stage. [41:07] It just wasn't quite ready. [41:09] Um, so, and look, you did Matt, look what you did. [41:13] I definitely didn't do that. [41:15] Um, I think I, I don't like the optics of the timing. [41:19] Um, staff reporter Matt Cromwell from the repository. [41:23] Yeah. [41:24] Um, but, um, what I also liked that they said is that it would be off [41:30] by default when it got shipped. [41:32] Um, but in my, it's like, I guess put it into multi-site territory [41:35] in terms of feature sets, I guess. [41:38] Um, but real quick actually, I want to highlight, um, you [41:42] know, folks are chiming in. [41:43] Um, if you're here and, uh, watching from whatever channel [41:47] that we've connected, then say hi. [41:49] We have Brian Gardner here saying hi from Arizona. [41:52] Brian is, uh, full disclosure, um, uh, wonderful person. [41:57] And that's all I'm gonna say about him. [41:59] Um, that's my full dis full disclosure. [42:04] Um, and Nick, Nick Laughlin is here also. [42:07] Uh, I, I think I know him from somewhere. [42:09] I'm not totally sure, but, um, somewhere for sure. [42:12] Nick, thanks for being here, Brian, too. [42:14] Um, Nick is saying also in the comments, uh, not disagreeing about [42:19] the state of things, just having a, this is fine moment at the idea [42:23] of WP fails if automatic fails. [42:26] Yeah, yeah, a little bit. [42:28] I have to say, like, it's, it's, I think it's the reality. [42:32] It's been the reality for quite a long time. [42:35] What's uncomfortable about it is the way in which it's become the [42:38] heart and soul of the legal battle. [42:40] Um, but um, but it is true nonetheless. [42:45] Um, we got one more. [42:47] Hello here. [42:48] Uh, from, oops, excuse me. [42:50] Oops. [42:51] Man. [42:51] I'm not doing good here. [42:52] From techie reviews. [42:53] Hi. [42:53] From the Netherlands, right. [42:56] Um. [42:58] Thanks everybody for being here. [43:01] Cool. [43:01] So this one, what's your, you, you brought this one up? [43:07] Yeah. [43:08] I'll make this short because I feel like we've been, I've been ranting too much. [43:12] Yeah, we, we've been talking about all of these things all [43:14] at the same time, basically. [43:16] Yeah. [43:16] Yeah. [43:17] Uh, these are the things that are breaking. [43:18] I don't know. [43:19] Yeah. [43:19] Like, uh, uh, breaking my brain and, uh, breaking in the news. [43:23] Um, my wordpress.net was announced and, and, and, uh, I, full disclosure, Eric [43:31] Kovac will be releasing an interview with the team that did launch this [43:34] to answer some of my, uh, questions that I ranted about in a video. [43:38] I love playground. [43:40] I think playground is one of the coolest things that we have in our tool [43:44] chest of, of tools, along with the, the WordPress hammer, uh, playground. [43:49] I use it all the time, all the time to test. [43:51] New versions of WordPress coming out. [43:53] Oh my God. [43:54] There's like a new thing of Gutenberg I want to test out. [43:56] I just go to [email protected]. [43:58] Yeah. [43:58] They have blueprints. [43:59] They have a whole tray that you can bring down to install different [44:02] well blueprints and stuff, um, and try all kinds of things. [44:05] Love it. [44:06] But then they come outta nowhere and it's just like my.wordpress.net. [44:10] You can run WordPress in your browser and then Matt puts out a post on his, [44:14] on his blog saying like, this is what's gonna make WordPress go to the billions. [44:18] Hmm. [44:18] Well, I don't see why like, it's like we've got this great thing [44:23] over here called Playground. [44:25] It makes sense. [44:25] It's documented. [44:27] The landing page looks cool when you spin up a playground. [44:30] There's inline documentation like I'm here to do. [44:33] This is playground though. [44:35] This is playground, right? [44:36] It's powered by playground, but it's my.wordpress.net. [44:42] You don't have all of the playground features. [44:46] And in fact, not only do you not have the playground features of what we [44:50] all know, like, you know, the GitHub stuff, the PR polls, uh, that you can [44:55] like test out stuff from a pr, um, the blueprints, um, changing of the [45:01] WordPress version from a dropdown. [45:04] Um, what this is, is a stripped down version of playground that is just [45:10] like rebranded for, I guess for the average user to be like, oh, I don't [45:14] need to see all this tech stuff. [45:17] And while I can appreciate that, I also, I'm like, why, [45:22] why this randomly and why now? [45:25] Like, what else does this do that we can't, we don't already [45:28] have with, with playground? [45:30] Um, and it's just like a confusing thing, uh, in, in my opinion. [45:35] Like it's just like, what? [45:36] Why are we just throwing this out here? [45:39] It's almost like there's an idea for it on what it's going to do in the [45:42] future, but this is like version 0.0 0 0 0 0 1, and it's nowhere near, [45:48] like whatever Matt's thinking is gonna push this to, you know, billions of [45:52] WordPress things around the world. [45:55] Um, and then not only that, it's just like, it's how are you gonna excite [46:01] the average user when the landing page looks like it, like it did. [46:05] It's just like a purple gradient, you know, type something in it. [46:08] It doesn't even look good. [46:10] No offense. [46:10] Yeah, yeah. [46:11] It doesn't look good. [46:13] And it's not even about the looks, it's just like, how do you tell an average [46:17] person what to do next with WordPress? [46:20] That's already the challenge with WordPress. [46:23] What do I do with this thing now? [46:25] Um, and then when you tell people, Hey, run it in your browser and [46:27] do whatever you want with it. [46:28] And it's like, here's a text input field as step one. [46:31] And you're just like, how does the average person, they're just gonna leave? [46:34] Um, yeah. [46:36] So I don't, it just feels like a half-baked thing and, and I just [46:39] don't know why we spend energy on it. [46:41] Whoa, I have not seen this before. [46:45] That's different. [46:45] Yeah. [46:46] Like, yeah. [46:47] Playground has this, and this is cool. [46:48] You can see, oh yeah. [46:50] Like you can have your, you can see your code and stuff. [46:52] Oh, and here's the other thing. [46:55] The biggest thing, um, which if you go to the four square dots, uh, four square icon [47:01] all the way to the top right corner, Hmm. [47:04] There's new nomenclature called apps, like install apps. [47:07] Where the hell did that come from? [47:10] Like, we, we've never, we've been calling it plugins for 20 years. [47:14] And then when you have a collection of plugins, uh, in playground, [47:18] they're called blueprints. [47:20] Save your blueprints. [47:21] Load your blueprints from a URL, load your blueprints from GitHub. [47:24] Like that's really cool. [47:26] And now suddenly we go to my wordpress.net and there's this concept [47:29] of apps, but they're just plugins. [47:32] So they are. [47:34] I can't figure out what they're, yeah, there's plenty. [47:37] Add an app. [47:39] What, so to me this is a way too early release of something that's planned, [47:49] which would probably be cool in like a year from now if it were version one. [47:54] But what's ver, what is that like why just dribble it out there? [47:59] Um, I haven't listened to the interview yet, but it's coming to [48:03] the WP Minute, I think next week. [48:06] Okay. [48:07] I just created an app called Testing Plugin. [48:10] What the heck did I create? [48:13] Oh, it just nothing. [48:16] I dunno. [48:17] So, okay. [48:19] Yeah. [48:19] That's weird. [48:20] That's super weird. [48:21] I don't understand that. [48:22] That must be related to something.com ish, [48:28] right? [48:30] I. I guess Yeah, we all, we we're all confused. [48:34] We're all confused. [48:35] Yeah. [48:37] I mean, if you look at, okay, let I zoom way out, and you get real [48:42] esoterical and you go, okay, WordPress is the operating system of the web, [48:47] you know, and if you believe that's still one of the missions, WordPress [48:51] would be a great gooey to content of a person, of an organization, of a brand. [48:58] And you want to connect that up to other apps, you know? [49:02] Okay. [49:03] Or you wanna bring apps in to do things and, okay. [49:05] I'm, I'm, I'm jiving with that, but we're so far away from that. [49:11] I mean, it's just like, why even, why even release it? [49:13] Um, why release it on make wordpress.org and why have Matt blog about it? [49:18] It just, to me, there, it just signals that there's an idea here. [49:22] And they were just like, let's just ship this and get it out and see what happens. [49:25] And then we'll, we'll iterate it. [49:26] On the future, but it's also like, does that mean we're [49:29] gonna leave playground too? [49:30] Like what the hell? [49:32] I, yeah, it feels a little bit like that play of like, you know, [49:36] wordpress.com powered by wordpress.org. [49:39] Well, you know, or, you know, wordpress.net Powered by playground. [49:46] Um, ish, ish plus plus apps, I dunno, plus apps. [49:55] That is, that is a hard, uh, go to market strategy, I have to say. [49:59] Um, I'll, I'll, I have it up already. [50:01] This, I'll just share this one last thing. [50:03] Um, so despite all of our curing about like, it's just a hammer, get [50:10] over it people, um, or all of the drama and all of the noise that's [50:16] going on all the time, I'm still trying to contribute to WordPress. [50:19] Call me crazy. [50:20] I'm still trying to contribute. [50:22] Um. [50:23] I've heard recently and experienced recently how terrible the search [50:28] is in WordPress admin area. [50:32] And um, and I heard somebody the other day just be like, well, don't [50:35] do that 'cause WordPress search sucks. [50:37] And it's like, it's actually kind of true. [50:40] It does kind of suck. [50:41] Um, and I was just trying to add a simple link to a paragraph and, uh, it [50:46] couldn't find the post that I had just posted, uh, before that, uh, that was [50:51] live and public and it was out there, but it couldn't find that post for me. [50:55] So I was like, man, I don't like this problem. [50:58] And so I just asked AI like, isn't there something in MySQL that [51:04] makes search better than just the, the way that WordPress, uh, [51:08] the WP Query does it right now? [51:10] And, um. [51:12] AI was like, oh yeah, like MySQL has been iterating for the last 15 years and [51:17] the, the, the WP query is stuck in 2005. [51:21] Uh, you know, which, you know, AI being snarky or whatever, [51:24] but it, it was totally true. [51:26] Um, full text is a really cool aspect of what is natively available in every single [51:32] WordPress, MySQL, um, site right now. [51:36] Um, every single one, it's not a compatibility issue in any way. [51:39] Like full text search is supported in every single, [51:43] uh, MySQL instance out there. [51:46] Um, we are just not leveraging it at all. [51:48] And you can add in taxonomies, you could add in custom post types, you [51:52] can add in whatever you want, and they can all be available to be found, [51:56] uh, in the normal WordPress search. [51:58] And I spun that plugin up in like about two hours total, honestly. [52:03] Um, and I haven't even done, I will say I haven't done serious, like, um. [52:09] Security, uh, passes on it yet, honestly. [52:11] So, um, no production sites, please, folks. [52:14] Um, but, um, I, and then I was like, I don't wanna maintain this for forever. [52:19] I would love for this to just be a canonical plugin or for people to take [52:25] this up and, and see if they can bring it into WordPress Corps or whatever. [52:29] Um, and I asked around, and there was a huge initiative led by George [52:35] Stefani, um, no Stephanopoulos, excuse me, George, sorry. [52:40] Um, way back in, um, 20 12, 20 13, um, to essentially do essentially this. [52:48] Um, and, uh, there's stuff on make WordPress about it. [52:52] There's stuff in Slack about it. [52:54] Um, like, but. [52:56] It never went forward. [52:58] Um, and for all the talk about contributing to WordPress, it's like, [53:03] well, people have tried, like if George, um, had, uh, other folks who [53:07] could have come alongside and helped with the momentum and everything, we [53:11] could have been enjoying a lot better admin search for the last 10 years. [53:15] Um, but we don't, because contribution to WordPress is not easy. [53:20] No matter how folks talk about it. [53:23] It is not easy. [53:24] It takes a whole ton of work, a whole ton of labor. [53:27] You have to be there all the time trying to push things through. [53:31] Um, and uh, and then it still might not get shipped. [53:34] Like honestly, I do feel bad for all the folks who spent the [53:37] last three years building multi collab only for them to hear. [53:41] It's not gonna make it into 7.0. [53:43] Um, you know, it's gonna make it into something else, but like. [53:47] It's, it's hard. [53:49] So nobody should be pretending that contributing to, uh, [53:53] WordPress core is easy. [53:54] It's not. [53:55] Um, right. [53:56] Nevertheless, if you want better search in WordPress admin, check [54:01] out my blog post, check out my repo. [54:03] I think we have a good stab in the right direction if we head this way. [54:08] Um, personally, so, and, and does that search enhance, uh, just for my [54:17] own edification, does that enhance the search for like posts and [54:20] pages in those in the search field? [54:23] Is it adding an additional layer of search somewhere else? [54:26] Will it hook into command pallet search or enhanced command pallet search, or are [54:31] you hoping like, Hey, it, this is just the start and hopefully it goes everywhere. [54:36] It actually does all of those things because it is hooking into WP Query. [54:41] So WP Query basically just goes and does a, like search on MySQL. [54:47] Uh, and we're basically just telling it don't do a like [54:50] search, go and search full text. [54:52] Um, and in order for full text to work though, it does create a, [54:57] a, a unique index table in MySQL. [55:00] Um, that is, uh, an additional aspect to it. [55:04] And I've heard some folks say that that's why, like actually WP [55:08] VIP, they have an article on their site about don't use Tex search if [55:14] you're an enterprise, uh, client. [55:17] Um, but their case study that they did was like, uh, full tech [55:22] search requires all these extra. [55:25] Post types and, and, and an extra, uh, database table. [55:29] And this, that article was written a long time ago. [55:33] Um, so this is a little bit different now, but essentially you turn this [55:37] on, it creates an index, uh, in your MySQL table, um, and then it works. [55:43] And you, you really don't see anything else. [55:45] Like it's just taking exactly what WordPress is today and iterating [55:49] it the very next step forward. [55:51] That's, that's it. [55:52] So, and the obvious technical drawback is, is going to be what? [55:56] Just adding more weight to that database if you have a huge database or we're [56:00] gonna have implications, like, I, I'm not sure honestly, um, because like [56:06] I ran it, it has, I, I spun up all of this benchmarking for it as well. [56:11] So like, um, core has, you know, if you're searching one uh word, um, this [56:18] actually gets you there a lot faster. [56:20] So even though there might be more data in your database. [56:25] It's making that data more accessible to the search. [56:28] So you're, it's processing things a lot faster. [56:31] So there's this trade off there. [56:33] It's more the question of like, what the enterprise folks say is whether [56:37] or not this scales super well. [56:39] But I think that there's no way that an enterprise client is happy with [56:44] the current WordPress search at all. [56:46] Uh, they're hooking in and doing some sort of elastic search somewhere [56:50] else for certain, like if that's your problem to solve, the current search [56:54] is not solving that problem for you. [56:57] Um, right. [56:57] So I, I think that's almost not relevant to the question because, [57:01] 'cause this is already gonna be a lot better than something that [57:04] they're trying to replace anyway. [57:07] So I, I think it's worth testing out and trying, uh, a hand at it. [57:11] So, but. [57:14] Very cool. [57:15] Tell me crazy and naive. [57:16] Um, but we should just keep trying to make the hammer better, I guess. [57:20] Um, [57:24] I love it. [57:24] I like it. [57:25] Hopefully you get more adoption and somebody, um, brings it into core. [57:30] Hopefully we'll see. [57:32] Matt, what are you looking forward to the next, uh, few weeks and whatnot? [57:36] Ooh, that's a good question. [57:39] Um, well, in a couple of weeks I'll be at press conference, so that's exciting. [57:44] April 8th through the 11th, uh, you and I'll be there. [57:47] Both you and I will be there. [57:49] Uh. [57:51] The old curmudgeon traveling guy is already in my head, oh God, I gotta [57:55] pack, I gotta drive to the airport. [57:57] I have to go through TSA. [57:59] You'd see headlines in the news. [58:00] TSA has packed up miles and you're like, oh God, why am I doing this? [58:04] Yeah, because we love press conf. [58:06] Um, so I'll be there. [58:07] That's exciting. [58:08] And uh, honestly, there's so, there's so many things I'm working on at the [58:13] day job at the WP Minute and the ai, I'm just excited for the weather to warm up. [58:18] That's all I care about at this point. [58:20] Yeah. [58:20] I just want sunshine. [58:22] It's gonna be like 90 degrees probably still. [58:26] Yeah, yeah, yeah. [58:28] That's, that's what I'm looking forward to. [58:31] That's awesome. [58:32] I'm also looking forward to that. [58:34] Um, I am looking forward to, um, seeing Miles. [58:39] Miles actually got, um, out beta is open on miles. [58:43] Uh, ai again, if you are not in there already, should check that out. [58:48] I think it's really interesting. [58:49] Um, I've been saying it at almost every episode. [58:52] I'm looking forward to press conf a lot. [58:54] I'm looking forward to checkout Summit a lot. [58:56] I think both of these are really fascinating, uh, opportunities [59:00] in the WordPress space. [59:01] Um, I am missing out on Cloud Fest this week. [59:04] Um, there was a lot of energy around it this year. [59:07] Um, and, uh, were you, you were going to it, weren't you at one point? [59:12] No. [59:12] No. [59:12] This time, this week was just not a good week for me overall and the [59:15] family and all that kind of stuff. [59:17] I've been there for the last three years and, uh, I've been priming the pump for [59:21] a lot of folks saying that it is a great space for the WordPress space to go to. [59:25] Um, and it's not just for hosts and whatnot, it's, it, especially [59:29] the Monday, uh, with WordPress Day and the Sunday, I think is when [59:33] they do the WordPress Hackathon. [59:36] Um, it's uh, it's really good. [59:38] It's, uh, very unique. [59:40] So, um, yeah. [59:42] And it's like three hours. [59:44] Yeah, only three hour drive, so, yeah. [59:46] Yeah. [59:48] But not this time around. [59:49] So next time. [59:51] Yeah. [59:53] Cool. [59:53] Cool. [59:53] Well thanks folks. [59:54] This has been breaking changes. [59:57] You can find Matt on the WP Minute. [60:00] You can find me on WP product Talk. [60:06] Gravity forms, roots and fruit. [60:10] We're not hard to find folks. [60:12] We'll see you all next time. [60:13] Helps us pay the bills. [60:16] Sponsor Matt. [60:18] Both. [60:18] Matts. [60:19] Both. [60:19] Matts one of the mats, one of the mats in WordPress.  📄 **Full text:** ![[Full Document Contents/Articles/Breaking Change Playground, Cancers, Multi-Collab, and More|Breaking Change: Playground, Cancers, Multi-Collab, and More, YouTube]] ## Highlights - either sponsoring WP product Talk, the repository, uh, Bob's show, like shows. Mm-hmm. Network. You just launched another one this week. You just launched another one. I, I, I, I can't follow, um, anyone who's thinking about spending that money. Um, you know, much like a developer who might be doing, you know, free maintenance and free de development of a package manager for all of WordPress. I look at that the same way that, you know, you and I, Matt and, and others in the space that I respect how we do content for WordPress. ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01kmjrq3p6nddbkqrgyf62arqw)) - Tags: 👻 ai highlighted - Um, you know, we're not, I mean, largely a lot of us are talking about real inside baseball stuff, stuff that is really impacting the WordPress community and the stakeholders in the community, which then tra trickles down to our customers and our clients and our users. Um, so it's not this massive space. It's not, you know. Our friends at WP Beginner, like it's not a WP beginner, uh, you know, millions of page views, or I don't even know what he gets, but millions of page ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01kmjrq3q0hsdv4db3kf8rrks8)) - Tags: 👻 ai highlighted - And, uh, traffic isn't gonna, you know, folks who are so busy consuming so much content, uh, are not going to want content just from a brand. And folks like Matt and I and others exist. To help those brands get the word out and our different ways of doing it. Right? Mine is particularly about sponsorship and others have different avenues for that. So we put that course together, uh, so that we could help anyone doing WordPress ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01kmjrq3qv8xhg68kkz6exmtqk)) - Tags: 👻 ai highlighted - of the fence, but are people willing to say, we like the work that you do, and we're willing to support that. Then we'll pay you to do it. This goes back to what we were just talking about with the WP packages thing. Like people have to take that side serious about sponsorship and driving revenue for the thing that they're doing. Otherwise, that thing that they're doing goes away. Yeah. Uh, you know, whether you like it or not. Yeah. Um, you know, the thing I put out and, and this kind of goes, we can transition to the harder topic, which was the cancer in the clubhouse comment ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01kmjrq3w2k0b94a70ef3rm7v0)) - Tags: 👻 ai highlighted - WordPress, fricking AI connectors. Right. That's what they're called. Yeah. So I'm like, okay, at least we're, we're getting there. And I understand that. Open source moves slow. So at least we're there coming in April. Um, but I, but, but I agree with you as just like, man, do we, do we continue down the path of that Google Docs like experience? Like is that the priority is now more than ever, we should be able to shift priorities to say we need to make sure WordPress stays ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01kmjrq3z7e9ssseyjrwz2q78g)) - Tags: 👻 ai highlighted - But I'm with you a hundred percent. Like if we, if automatic doesn't survive, then we don't have a project anymore. Um, correct, correct. Yeah. Um. So I'm not saying like that's, you know, that's the strategy of like the slow rolling stuff of, of wordpress.org or, or, or the open source version of WordPress. But, um, it is something that could happen and, uh, you know, uh, we're obviously not gonna get into a debate of like, who should be contributing ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01kmjrq42bazegyvhap5gcdwds)) - Tags: 👻 ai highlighted - to WordPress and all this other stuff. And yes, like you can always look back and say, oh, Matt's right. We have to have everybody pull their weight and do their thing, so this is all better. Um, you know, but it's, um, I'm, I'm happy with what they're setting up in WordPress seven with the connectors. It's interesting that like the first time a paid thing or a, I don't know if we talked about this on the last show, but I think it's interesting that the first time we'll have a paid thing in WordPress core is not automatic or jet pack. ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01kmjrq4e02f0npn84pr01j221)) - Tags: 👻 ai highlighted - well blueprints and stuff, um, and try all kinds of things. Love it. But then they come outta nowhere and it's just like my.wordpress.net. You can run WordPress in your browser and then Matt puts out a post on his, on his blog saying like, this is what's gonna make WordPress go to the billions. Hmm. Well, I don't see why like, it's like we've got this great thing over here called Playground. It makes sense. It's documented. The landing page looks cool when you spin up a playground. ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01kmjrq4msmajacskw4mesr37k)) - Tags: 👻 ai highlighted - Um, and it's just like a confusing thing, uh, in, in my opinion. Like it's just like, what? Why are we just throwing this out here? It's almost like there's an idea for it on what it's going to do in the future, but this is like version 0.0 0 0 0 0 1, and it's nowhere near, like whatever Matt's thinking is gonna push this to, you know, billions of WordPress things around the world. Um, and then not only that, it's just like, it's how are you gonna excite ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01kmjrq4s4gv3d6rdj5gacjnn4)) - Tags: 👻 ai highlighted - Um, and I haven't even done, I will say I haven't done serious, like, um. Security, uh, passes on it yet, honestly. So, um, no production sites, please, folks. Um, but, um, I, and then I was like, I don't wanna maintain this for forever. I would love for this to just be a canonical plugin or for people to take this up and, and see if they can bring it into WordPress Corps or whatever. Um, and I asked around, and there was a huge initiative led by George ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01kmjrq4yf30m8wqn7zd4e77vt)) - Tags: 👻 ai highlighted