Breaking My Silence About the NAR W/BSSM Alumni John Davison  🔗 **Source:** [Breaking My Silence About the NAR W/BSSM Alumni John Davison](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_I4w7cM9Ph8) 📄 **Full text:** [[Full Document Contents/Articles/Breaking My Silence About the NAR WBSSM Alumni John Davison.md|Breaking My Silence About the NAR W/BSSM Alumni John Davison by Krista Bontrager]] ## Highlights - [01:07:22] prophetic accountability. The prophetic practices are too loose. The leadership is treating um is being treated as though they're untouchables, which we don't see that in scripture. And then I started really learning more about the Kansas City prophets and Bob Jones and the history of all of these things and unpacking those things. And so for the last six years, that's really my been my journey is learning the history of all of this and retaining the gifts of the spirit. Um retaining my love for the charismatic movement, retaining everything that I'm continuing to do. Again, I'm still doing prophecy. I'm going to a conference this week and doing prophetic ministry. uh but but really being aware of the way that these things are uh being mishandled, the [01:08:07] malpractice, sometimes straight out fraud and abuse and trying to help people recognize those things and recover as well. So that that's what got us to a point to where we left. We we didn't leave because we didn't love the people. I still love the people very much. I'm still in relationship with many of the people. We didn't leave because we were critical or had some kind of a religious spirit. We literally end up leaving because there was no accountability for prophetic malpractice and people were being empowered that were abusive. >> Going back to a statement you made a few minutes ago is I thought I could I could just not participate in certain practices. I've so been there. one of my ministry associates at the time that we ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01m449afpy9n550b381020tjt9)) - Note: [H3] Unaccountable prophecy, not lack of love, drove them out - Tags: atom/literature/h3 - [01:13:20] category is being overemphasized and stretched outside of the biblical bounds or framework. And so when I say hyperarismatic, what I'm saying is is there is within excessive streams where things are stretched beyond biblical means such as the kingdom now theology espoused within the Bethl streams. um they're they're not always experiencing what they believe or think they should be experiencing and therefore they have to figure out how to explain it away. And oftentimes because there isn't a healthy balance between what is now and what is not yet. So there's there's things that the kingdom offers now and there's things that the kingdom offers not yet and there's things that we can experience now that are promised of God. [01:14:04] But then there's also an element of mystery when it comes to sovereignty and and God's will. Within that though, there's often a reframing of what the word faith actually means. And when we look at scripture, what we see is faith is not psychological certainty about a specific outcome. Faith is trusting in Christ. So often what ends up happening, especially within these types of streams, this was very prominent in the latter reign movement. This was very prominent in the shephering movement as well which you know again these things birth streams like IHOP and Bethl is that you have to have psychological certainty and therefore if somebody ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01m449aadtzf11v6fsatetcjyj)) - Note: [H1] Faith means trusting Christ, not certainty about outcomes - Tags: atom/literature/h1 - [01:43:59] necessarily because of. And I go, God loves people enough that he prophesied the coming of the Messiah through Balum. And that's not to speak well of Balum. That's simply to say that God will use people in spite of, not necessarily because of. And so signs, wonders, miracles, the gifts of the spirit, they're not an affirmation of the person. They're not an affirmation of the person's character. They're not an affirmation of the person's anointing. They're an affirmation of God's love to a lost and dying world. >> The person's character is a whole another story. And that's why we have to separate the gift and and the supernatural from the character. And that's why when you look at the dake, the early church document that I [01:44:42] mentioned, um I may have mentioned it earlier, but it's in the in the book. I was talking about the apostolic fathers. They talk about how to measure a prophet in the early church. And they're like, if they're prophesying for money, they're a false prophet. They're somebody who's coming to you as a hirling. And so, we have all these established protocols all throughout scripture that help us to qualify if somebody truly is a believer or not. Now, that's also not to say if we go back at the Corinthian example, they're in all kinds of sin, elitism, and Paul doesn't tell them they're not saved. That's the hard part. The hard part is I don't know who's saved and who's not saved. I Paul said, 'D don't say who ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01m449ad49nwjc3vg2h9b9xwde)) - Note: [H2] Spiritual gifts don't vouch for a minister's character - Tags: atom/literature/h2 - [02:02:55] you." Um, that just makes them feel belittled, and they're already dealing with that from the worksbased mentality that is emphasized in the community. Um, the leaders are already being hard on them. I told you. I told you if you go talk to this person that you're just going to quench the spirit. You're going to grieve the spirit. Like they're they've already got all this language in there that easily turns to guilt. So you want to avoid guilt, condemnation, and shame um as much as possible, but also help them to to understand reality. Um another point, stay humble, teachable, and find common ground. We talked about that. Uh not everything they do or say is wrong and agree where you can. And then the final point is um show interest in their story. Um give them your ear so [02:03:39] that they will give you their heart. And I'll say that again. Give them your ear so that they will give you their heart. Um you know, have your conversation full of grace and seasoned with salt. Uh you know, you want to win your brother over and they are your brother. Hyperarismatics are your brother in Christ. um they they're just stuck in a place where many times they don't understand. And it's not that they um don't even know the Bible. Many of them actually know scripture very well, but the anti-intellectualism within the stream has them so focused on the vision of the church that they can't see past the direction that they're going in and everything else seems like it's not as ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01m449amxcmzdkpmwajarw3gbc)) - Note: [H5] Listening first keeps the relationship open - Tags: atom/literature/h3 - [02:10:19] reformation, which is a language that was coined by Pet C. Peter Wagner. Um, the idea behind that apostolic reformation is an ecclesiological category, meaning it has to do with the way that a church is structured and the hierarchy of that church. And what we're saying is is the five-fold ministry within these streams become an authority or have an office over the church rather than elderrun churches which is historically what the Christian faith had. Even when you go to um for example Acts chapter 15, we see in Acts 15 even the Apostle Paul after he's saved, he he's sent back to Jerusalem by the [02:11:04] church to settle a matter of doctrine about Gentile inclusion and what the Gentiles could or should not be doing. And so the Apostle Paul submits himself to the Jerusalem elders and the Jerusalem church. And it's the church and the elders together who determine what the apostles and the five-fold ministry should be doing and the direction they should be going. Whereas in the NR stream, the new apostolic reformation stream which comes out of the latter reign movement is where that began. They are putting apostles, prophets, pastors, evangelists, teachers in a position of authority over the church. And this is what started the ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01m449ajavkqtm1wyjah472a4y)) - Note: [H4] NAR names a church authority structure - Tags: atom/literature/h3