CHAOSS Weekly Community Call, April 14 2026

CHAOSS Weekly Community Call, April 14 2026 ![rw-book-cover](https://img.youtube.com/vi/ANnLIBfz0ng/maxresdefault.jpg) 🔗 **Source:** [CHAOSS Weekly Community Call, April 14 2026](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANnLIBfz0ng) > [!note]+ Document Notes > tags: #community-management #open-source #governance #crisis-management #project-continuity #board-elections > author: CHAOSS Community > source: YouTube > reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANnLIBfz0ng > date created: 2024-04-14 15:00 > > # 🏷️ Title: CHAOSS Weekly Community Call - Navigating Community Crisis and Project Continuity >  ## 🧰 Action Inbox - [H1] Address Slack channel reorganization for newcomer experience — general channel cleanup #community-management - [H2] Establish software working group umbrella for project coordination — cross-project collaboration #project-coordination - [H3] Monitor board election process and voter engagement — April 20th nomination opening #governance ## 🧭 Table of Contents - [[#📝 Summary]] - [[#📖 Main Content]] - [[#🗒️ Notes]] - [[#📚 References]] - [[#🗣️ Paraphrase]] - [[#📰 Newsletter]] - [[#✅ Action Items]] - [[#🧪 Hypotheses]] - [[#📊 Methodology]] - [[#❓ Questions]] - [[#🔮 Future Research]] - [[#💡 Implications]] - [[#🧠 Learning Styles Assessment]] - [[#📊 Accessibility Assessment]] - [[#🌍 DEIB Assessment]] - [[#✅ Logical Validity]] - [[#🛡️ DARVO Analysis]] - [[#🎯 Conclusion]] ### 🔗 References - [CHAOSS Community Repository](https://github.com/chaoss/community) - [Board Election PR #789](https://github.com/chaoss/community/pull/789) ## 📝 Summary - CHAOSS community faces significant crisis following unilateral repository move by long-term contributor - Board elections scheduled to begin April 20th with new governance structure - Community working to maintain project continuity while addressing organizational challenges - Multiple software projects (Augur, GrimoireLab, DEI Badging) seeking better coordination - Funding transition period adds complexity to crisis management efforts ## 📖 Main Content The CHAOSS community is navigating a significant organizational crisis stemming from a repository ownership dispute. A key contributor unilaterally moved the Augur project repository without consultation with other maintainers, citing disagreements with board decisions and governance changes. This action has created uncertainty about project continuity and community stability. The community is simultaneously managing upcoming board elections, which will open for nominations on April 20th. The election process includes new governance structures and represents an opportunity for community members to shape the organization's future direction. Several working groups continue regular operations despite the crisis, with particular momentum in the data science working group and emerging interest in creating a unified software working group to coordinate multiple technical projects under the CHAOSS umbrella. ## 🗒️ Notes #### ⏱️ [00:00](https://youtu.be/ANnLIBfz0ng?t=0) — [H2] Data Science Working Group Updates - Key idea: Significant progress in visualization opportunities and contributor onboarding - Evidence: "There's a lot of really great work happening... what I always envisioned around data science in this community" #### ⏱️ [05:23](https://youtu.be/ANnLIBfz0ng?t=323) — [H1] Board Election Timeline and Process - Key idea: Elections open April 20th with structured nomination process - Evidence: "April 20th which is next Monday... we will see movement so it should be open for nominations to start" #### ⏱️ [12:45](https://youtu.be/ANnLIBfz0ng?t=765) — [H3] Governance Documentation History Request - Key idea: Community member seeking access to previous governance versions - Evidence: "I wanted to review the previous version... to see what that previous version had said" #### ⏱️ [18:30](https://youtu.be/ANnLIBfz0ng?t=1110) — [H1] Community Impact and Mental Health Concerns - Key idea: Crisis causing significant harm to community morale and individual wellbeing - Evidence: "I am of an opinion that it's causing more harm to the community than we can even begin to imagine" #### ⏱️ [25:15](https://youtu.be/ANnLIBfz0ng?t=1515) — [H1] Personal Impact on Long-term Contributors - Key idea: Five years of open source career work threatened by sudden repository move - Evidence: "To have something like that taken away is really difficult... this has been really hard" #### ⏱️ [32:00](https://youtu.be/ANnLIBfz0ng?t=1920) — [H2] Community Infrastructure Resilience Ideas - Key idea: Building more independent and community-owned infrastructure - Evidence: "Helping build chaos community infrastructure that is more resilient to things like this" #### ⏱️ [38:45](https://youtu.be/ANnLIBfz0ng?t=2325) — [H3] Newcomer Experience in General Slack Channel - Key idea: Suggestion to move contentious discussions to dedicated channels - Evidence: "Can that conversation be moved to a specific channel... keep the general for newcomers" #### ⏱️ [42:30](https://youtu.be/ANnLIBfz0ng?t=2550) — [H2] Repository Continuity Plans - Key idea: Active maintainers committed to ensuring project continuation under CHAOSS - Evidence: "There will be people that will continue to work on the project under chaos" #### ⏱️ [48:15](https://youtu.be/ANnLIBfz0ng?t=2895) — [H1] Board Response and Resolution Efforts - Key idea: Board working on compassionate and empathetic resolution approach - Evidence: "The board is trying to come to an amicable resolution... compassionate and empathetic" #### ⏱️ [52:00](https://youtu.be/ANnLIBfz0ng?t=3120) — [H2] Funding Transition Complexity - Key idea: Grant funding ended March, adding uncertainty to crisis - Evidence: "Chaos has been grant funded for 9 years and that grant came to an end at the beginning of March" #### ⏱️ [58:30](https://youtu.be/ANnLIBfz0ng?t=3510) — [H2] Software Working Group Coordination - Key idea: Interest in creating unified coordination across multiple CHAOSS software projects - Evidence: "Having a working group or call that is for chaos software I think is really valuable" #### ⏱️ [62:15](https://youtu.be/ANnLIBfz0ng?t=3735) — [H3] GrimoireLab Collaboration Opportunity - Key idea: European funding provides opportunity for component sharing and collaboration - Evidence: "Grimmer Lab has funding for the next three years... maybe it's a new opportunity" ## 📚 References - [CHAOSS Community Blog Post](https://chaoss.community/blog/) - [Election Process PRs](https://github.com/chaoss/community/pull/789) - [Governance Documentation History](https://github.com/chaoss/community) ## 🗣️ Paraphrase - The CHAOSS community is experiencing a major crisis after a long-term contributor unilaterally moved a key project repository, creating uncertainty about project continuity and community governance - Board elections are proceeding as scheduled with nominations opening April 20th, providing an opportunity for community members to influence the organization's direction - Multiple software projects within CHAOSS are exploring better coordination and collaboration, with particular interest in creating a unified working group structure ## 📰 Newsletter The CHAOSS community is navigating significant organizational challenges while maintaining focus on core mission work. Despite current uncertainties, several positive developments are emerging: **Board Elections Approaching**: Nominations open April 20th with new governance structures designed to strengthen community representation. Open office hours scheduled for April 23rd. **Software Projects Coordination**: Growing interest in unified working group for Augur, GrimoireLab, DEI Badging, and other technical projects. European funding for GrimoireLab creates collaboration opportunities. **Community Support**: Strong commitment from maintainers and contributors to ensure project continuity under community governance. Resources: [CHAOSS Community](https://chaoss.community/), [Election Information](https://github.com/chaoss/community), [Working Groups](https://chaoss.community/participate/) ## ✅ Action Items #### Community - Maintainers: Ensure project continuity plans for affected repositories - Contributors: Participate in board election process and governance discussions - Sponsors: Provide stability support during transition period - Ecosystem: Coordinate cross-project collaboration opportunities #### OSPO - Community Engagement: Support crisis resolution and member retention - Policy & Governance: Review governance structures for resilience - Strategic Alignment: Maintain focus on mission during organizational challenges #### FAIR - Governance artifacts: Document lessons learned from crisis management - Policies: Strengthen project ownership and transition procedures ## 🧪 Hypotheses - Communities with stronger governance structures are more resilient to individual contributor departures - Open, verbal communication reduces misunderstandings compared to text-based disputes - Cross-project collaboration increases during organizational uncertainty - Transparent election processes can restore community trust after governance crises ### 📊 Methodology - Community sentiment analysis through meeting participation and feedback - Governance structure review comparing pre and post-crisis policies - Project activity metrics during transition periods ### ❓ Questions - How can open source communities build resilience against single-point-of-failure contributors? - What governance structures best balance contributor autonomy with community stability? - How do funding transitions interact with organizational crises in open source projects? ### 🔮 Future Research - Crisis management best practices for open source communities - Impact of governance transparency on community resilience - Collaboration patterns during organizational uncertainty ### 💡 Implications - Practice: Need for clearer project ownership and transition procedures - Policy: Governance structures require regular resilience testing - Education: Crisis management training for community leaders - Funding: Diversified funding reduces organizational vulnerability ### 🧠 Learning Styles Assessment Reading level estimate: 12th grade #### 👀 Visual learners - Present: Organization charts, governance structures - Improve: Crisis timeline diagrams, process flowcharts #### 🔊 Aural learners - Present: Full community call recording with natural conversation - Improve: Audio summaries of key decisions and timelines #### 🗣️ Verbal learners - Present: Extensive discussion, multiple perspectives, community dialogue - Improve: Glossary of governance terms, analogies to other organizations #### 🧩 Kinesthetic learners - Present: Active participation opportunities, election process steps - Improve: Governance simulation exercises, crisis response checklists #### 🧠 Logical learners - Present: Clear timeline, cause-and-effect relationships, process steps - Improve: Decision trees for crisis response, governance flowcharts #### 🧑‍🤝‍🧑 Social learners - Present: Community call format, collaborative problem-solving - Improve: Working group coordination guides, peer support networks #### 🧘‍♀️ Solitary learners - Present: Individual reflection time, personal impact statements - Improve: Self-assessment tools for community roles, independent study guides ### 📊 Accessibility Assessment #### Screen reader semantics - Present: Clear heading structure, descriptive speaker identification - Improve: Better timestamp formatting, consistent role labeling #### Media and captions - Present: Full transcript available - Improve: Speaker identification markup, emotion/tone indicators ### 🌍 DEIB Assessment #### Cultural breadth - Present: Global community participation across time zones - Improve: Cultural context for governance concepts, international examples #### Psychological safety - Present: Acknowledgment of emotional impact, support offerings - Improve: Clear escalation paths, mental health resources #### Representation - Present: Multiple perspectives from different community roles - Improve: Balanced speaking time, inclusive facilitation practices ### ✅ Logical Validity #### Strong reasoning - Causal reasoning: Clear connection between governance changes and community crisis - Practical reasoning: Focus on actionable solutions and future prevention #### Tone of voice - Overall tone: Vulnerable but constructive, balancing transparency with professionalism ### 🛡️ DARVO Analysis - Deny: Minimal denial patterns, focus on factual disagreements - Attack: Some defensive responses but generally constructive dialogue - Emotional cues: High emotional investment, genuine concern for community welfare ## 🎯 Conclusion The CHAOSS community demonstrates remarkable resilience in facing organizational crisis while maintaining commitment to core mission work. The combination of transparent governance processes, dedicated maintainers, and collaborative problem-solving provides a foundation for recovery and stronger future structures. The board election process offers an immediate opportunity for community healing and renewed direction. ## 🧱 Refactor Appendix ### 📚 Literature Split Pad ### [H1] Crisis management requires transparent communication > [!quote] [CHAOSS Community Call](https://youtu.be/ANnLIBfz0ng) by CHAOSS Community via YouTube. Published 2024-04-14. Accessed 2024-04-14. > "Speaking verbally to each other, there's tone and intent that is able to be shown in ways that you can't over written text." Demonstrates importance of verbal communication during community conflicts. [view highlight](https://youtu.be/ANnLIBfz0ng?t=3735) #xref #community-management ID:rw_chaoss_crisis_comm ### [H2] Community governance requires maintainer consultation > [!quote] [CHAOSS Community Call](https://youtu.be/ANnLIBfz0ng) > "We weren't told anything that this was going to happen. We just woke up and learned it with everybody else." Illustrates governance failure when unilateral decisions affect shared projects. [view highlight](https://youtu.be/ANnLIBfz0ng?t=2325) #xref #governance ID:rw_chaoss_governance_fail --- ### 🔖 Atomic Split Pad (Zettel Candidates) #### [Z1] Community crisis affects newcomer onboarding - Contentious discussions in general channels deter new participants - Pointer to 38:45 timestamp discussion - Links: [[Community-Management]] [[Newcomer-Experience]] #### [Z2] Cross-project collaboration increases during uncertainty - Multiple software projects seeking unified coordination during crisis - Pointer to 58:30 software working group discussion - Links: [[Project-Coordination]] [[Crisis-Response]] --- ### ✏️ Fleeting Queue - [F1] Research crisis management frameworks for open source communities — governance literature #fleeting #research - [F2] Follow board election outcomes for governance lessons — April 2024 process #fleeting #tracking - [F3] Document software working group formation process — coordination patterns #fleeting #documentation --- ## Full Transcript [00:02] Yes, thank you. I guess we have two we [00:05] have two chaos [00:08] and neither one of them are me. [00:12] So, I'll copy the link into the chat [00:19] of the um documents. [00:22] Um Sophia, it is so wonderful to see [00:25] your name. I'm so happy to see you. [00:31] I'm slowly coming back into things. It's [00:34] >> Hey, [00:35] >> it takes time. [00:36] >> Yeah, [00:38] >> I'll be excited to talk to you about all [00:40] there's been a lot of really great data [00:43] science stuff that has been um [00:45] developing since you've been gone. So, [00:47] as you start working back into things, [00:49] I'll be excited to kind of um let you [00:52] know what's been going on. Um, I'd say [00:54] the data science working group right now [00:56] is probably I'm biased because I'm one [00:58] of the um I guess what the working group [01:01] leads, but I'm really excited about the [01:03] work that's going on over there. There's [01:04] a lot of really um yeah, great work. [01:07] It's probably it's what I always I guess [01:09] envisioned or wanted um to be going on [01:12] around data science in this community. [01:15] So, it's it's cool to see it all coming [01:18] to life and new people getting involved [01:20] um and being active in chaos. [01:32] I'll give a few more minutes um to see [01:34] and also um at this point we don't [01:36] really have anything on our agenda. Um, [01:40] so if people have specific topics that [01:43] they would like to bring up or like any [01:47] updates from different working groups, I [01:48] guess unofficially I just gave a update [01:51] from the data science working group. I [01:53] can always go into that a little bit [01:54] more um and talk about some of the stuff [01:58] that's going on there. Um [02:02] because there's now a lot more um [02:04] opportunities for um contribution and [02:08] collaboration in the data science [02:09] working group that has come up or I [02:11] guess not come up but has solidified in [02:13] the last couple of weeks. [02:29] Well, I [02:32] not seeing anything on the agenda. um [02:35] instead of being vague about it like [02:37] I'll kind of put on there that there is [02:39] a some just data science working group [02:42] updates [02:44] and I can also speak some from the 8 [02:47] knots perspective of the newer [02:50] opportunities that have come in and I'm [02:53] mostly riffing to try to leave some to [02:55] leave some space and time for people to [02:57] put in other topics that they would like [02:58] to speak about um during this community [03:01] call um but in the community call we [03:04] haven't talked about the data science [03:05] working group or um updates on the 8 [03:08] knot project in a while. Um we've put in [03:11] a lot of work to um update our issue [03:15] backlog and set up opportunities for [03:18] more people to contribute and get [03:19] involved in with these projects. And the [03:22] big area around that is on the um [03:24] visualizations. Um so now on the 8 knot [03:27] and the data science working group side [03:30] there is a large set of visualizations [03:32] most of them um with the definitions [03:35] coming from the metric models in the [03:37] past from metrics model working group in [03:39] chaos. So there is opportunities to work [03:42] on making those visualizations [03:45] um possible using um like an augur [03:48] database where I'm I'm now going to be [03:50] referring to as a data collection tool [03:52] as a more um vague I would say vague but [03:55] um non-primary noun of like a data [04:00] collection database. So now you can able [04:02] to collect to a data collection database [04:03] to be able to build these [04:04] visualizations. [04:06] Um where our hope is to be able to have [04:08] a public um bare like very um small [04:12] database that people can connect to for [04:14] contribution purposes to be able to [04:15] develop visualizations that in turn can [04:18] go into 8. Um so there's a big backlog [04:22] of them. So if people are looking for [04:24] opportunities to work on something more [04:26] on the software side, data science side [04:28] that is available. Um there's also other [04:30] projects that are happening within the [04:32] data science working group that is [04:34] looking at foundation analysis um which [04:36] has been really interesting and some [04:38] other data sets of um like company [04:41] involvement and o investment in open [04:43] source that is starting to be um [04:45] developed. So um just as some general um [04:50] updates from the from that side of the [04:52] house um if you have any questions um [04:54] please go to the working group chat or [04:56] message me. I'm more than happy to talk [04:58] about these things. I'll pass it over to [05:01] the whoever put down for the chaos board [05:03] election updates. [05:06] >> Yeah, that was me. This is Elizabeth. I [05:08] just wanted to give a quick update. [05:10] There is a PR that's um out in the chaos [05:14] community repo that has kind of the meat [05:17] of the election stuff. [05:20] um we need to get uh okay from the board [05:23] uh to to merge that um which they [05:26] haven't seen that yet. So so I will be [05:28] sending that to them today. Um but yeah, [05:31] so there are uh a little more details in [05:34] that PR which I'm happy to share if [05:36] somebody wants to see it. Um essentially [05:38] the timeline is that um I believe April [05:42] 20th which is uh what day is that? 6 [05:45] days from here that is next Monday. Um [05:49] we will you'll see movement so it should [05:52] be open for nominations to start. Um and [05:55] then we are going to host an open office [05:57] hours which is on the chaos calendar [05:59] right now um April 23rd [06:03] at [06:06] sometime [06:08] uh where is it? I don't see it. Hang on [06:12] a minute. Sorry everybody. I'll find [06:14] that. I think it's at 1:00 Eastern, [06:17] which um is 12:00 Central if you're used [06:22] to that. [06:24] Uh let me just find that really quick [06:25] and I'll drop a link here. So, in that [06:27] meeting um you can ask whatever you [06:29] want. Um you can also uh jump in the [06:33] Slack. There's an election-helpp Slack [06:35] channel as well. We're happy to be in [06:37] there. Um oh, sorry. Yeah, April 23rd is [06:40] a Thursday. That's why I couldn't find [06:42] it. Let me just share this here for [06:46] everybody. [06:48] That is not the right link. Sorry. [06:51] Sorry. Oh my goodness. [06:54] I Yeah. [06:58] Okay. How about that? There we go. [07:00] That's the open office hours. If you are [07:02] subscribed to the chaos community [07:05] meetings, which is this meeting and the [07:07] newcomer meeting, this open office hours [07:10] is also kind of lumped in with those. [07:11] So, it would show up show up your If [07:13] you're not subscribed to that, you will [07:16] want to maybe bookmark this if that's [07:17] something you're interested in in [07:19] attending. [07:22] I think that's it. [07:24] Let me find that PR actually so I can [07:27] share that with you all so you can just [07:29] kind of see what it will look like. And [07:31] this is the PR that again has all the [07:33] meat in it. Um, and that's the this is [07:35] the information that Eleto will um will [07:40] pull from. So [07:42] yeah, and there's there should be like a [07:44] guide [07:45] um for if you want to nominate yourself, [07:48] there is it's a work in progress also a [07:51] PR that needs to be uh merged in, but I [07:55] will drop that here as well just so you [07:57] can see what it's going to look like [07:58] when it's merged. Oops, that's Here we [08:00] go. [08:03] Yeah, 789 and 790 are the two um PRs. if [08:08] you want to just get us a quick sneak [08:10] peek before they're merged in. [08:17] And I'm happy to answer any questions [08:19] anybody has. And just uh sorry, I just [08:22] keep talking. Um but just so people are [08:25] clear, this I I am one of the election [08:27] officers. I'm a neutral party. The other [08:29] two are Emma Irwin and Ali from Red Hat [08:32] um who has um managed some of these [08:34] elections before for the K native [08:36] community and has been extremely helpful [08:38] as we kind of sort this out since this [08:41] is the first time we're doing this. So [08:43] that's my role not as community manager [08:45] or anything but as an election officer. [08:51] >> Do these PRs include dates for um when [08:55] people who want to run for the board can [08:57] announce their candidacy? Yes, it [08:59] should. Um, let me just make sure that [09:01] >> that is included in that. [09:02] >> Read through them and check before [09:04] asking, but [09:05] >> No, no, you're good. You're totally [09:06] fine. That's a super valid question. [09:09] Yeah, it's uh it's it's in this file. [09:12] Uh, let me just drop it here. [09:16] It's a little um it needs a little bit [09:19] of tweaking based on some comments. So, [09:22] uh but here is the [09:25] file itself and that we'll have Nope. [09:29] Is it not? Oh, [09:33] yeah. This is actually it. This is a [09:37] very long URL. Sorry. [09:41] But that had that should have the [09:42] timeline in there. [09:49] >> Sweet. Thanks. [09:50] >> There's also a voter guide in this PR as [09:52] well that will show up. Um, which again, [09:54] you're welcome to kind of dip through [09:56] that PR and and just do a deep dive if [10:00] you feel like it. Um, but that should be [10:02] merged in relatively soon obviously [10:04] before before the 20th. [10:13] >> Miss [10:18] for some reasons I can't access my chat [10:20] on this device. um the link you're sh [10:23] you're dropping. Are they inside the um [10:26] minutes? [10:28] >> Oh, good question. Uh I don't know. [10:31] >> I've been putting the PRs in there. Um [10:34] >> okay. Okay. Thank you, Andrew. [10:36] >> Thank you, Adrian. [10:49] Is there anything else? Any other [10:51] questions people have about the board [10:54] elections? [11:02] Um yeah, not not about the B election. [11:06] Um, [11:08] I I just wanted to ask if um if anyone [11:12] knows if there's a way to [11:16] to um to to look at the the previous [11:21] governance doc [11:23] um like the previous version if if there [11:26] was a way to to currently see that since [11:29] we um made updates to that. Uh I I just [11:34] wanted to I wanted to review that um [11:37] yeah early on but I I couldn't find a [11:40] way to get back to the previous version [11:44] um other than what we currently have. [11:46] And [11:47] >> when you say previous version, what do [11:49] you mean like what are you looking for? [11:52] Yeah, like um like in respect to recent [11:56] conversations on Slack um [12:00] um Sean kept making certain statement [12:02] like um the the board removing the um [12:08] software co share requirements and um [12:11] yeah I I just wanted to check that again [12:14] to see what that previous version had [12:16] said and how how the current sort of [12:21] like um restricted restricted him [12:27] or folks from the software um committee [12:32] to doing um or having authority over the [12:35] the software they leading. So I just [12:38] wanted to agree with that. That's a [12:39] personal thing. [12:40] >> Yeah. Um [12:44] >> I think there is I I know I have it [12:47] somewhere. I just need some time to find [12:48] it. Um, there is a specific pull request [12:50] that I think I was I was seeing that [12:53] that uh Sean was bringing up. [12:56] >> Um, so that that'll contain the diff of [12:58] before and after, but then I can also [12:59] get you the commit just before that poll [13:01] request merged if you want to see what [13:02] was it what things were like beforehand. [13:05] >> I just dropped in the commit history for [13:06] the governance doc, but there's also the [13:08] charter doc which you might actually be [13:10] referring to. So, um, I can drop that in [13:13] as well if if that's maybe helpful. [13:17] um history for the Yeah, [13:29] >> there you go. [13:30] >> Let me know if there's any other doc you [13:32] want to find and I'll help track it down [13:34] or Adrian can too. [13:36] >> Yeah. Um that is one of the benefits of [13:39] using G like we can see the exact [13:42] history over time with these files and [13:46] um have a source of truth of what's [13:48] actually changed and um confirm or dis [13:52] or um disprove certain statements. Um, [13:55] yes. [14:03] >> Believe this is the pull request that [14:05] was specifically [14:06] being referred to in various things [14:09] Sean's been saying. Uh, I'll put that in [14:11] the doc in the notes as well. [14:14] >> Um, I think we still have one hand up. [14:16] Um, I want to make sure that I I'll [14:18] attempt to pronounce your name. Adika or [14:21] Yeah. Ninka. Yeah. [14:27] Hello. [14:29] >> Hello. [14:29] >> So funny. A lot of people call me Adam. [14:32] So funny to call me guys. [14:35] Sorry. That's a nice [14:37] >> I'll always put my best effort put a [14:38] pronunciation in there and I'll I'll [14:40] practice on the side. I always try my [14:43] best. [14:45] >> Ah, so good. Thank you. Um so uh I just [14:48] want to follow up on what um Mary [14:51] Blessing brought up because that's been [14:54] my concern [14:56] um recent uh happenings in the generous [15:00] work and my question is this um is there [15:04] anything we are doing um as maybe [15:09] or even as a community to [15:12] kind of cut down on the B [15:19] Yes, [15:22] >> I heard that. Can I calm down? Um, I I [15:26] missed the second part of your sentence [15:27] and so I want to make sure I get your [15:28] the full question. [15:31] >> Okay. So, can you hear me clearly now? [15:35] >> I can I can hear you. Yes. [15:38] >> Okay. So I am saying that if there's [15:41] something we can do as leaders or as um [15:45] a a general community to reduce or even [15:49] eliminate the back and forth that is [15:51] happening because I am of an opinion [15:54] that it's causing more harm to the [15:56] community [15:59] than we can even begin to um imagine [16:03] because right now I feel like it's it's [16:05] affecting the morale of people and It's [16:08] causing a lot of distractions. [16:12] >> Yeah. [16:12] >> Personally, I know how how I feel about [16:14] the whole thing and how it has affected [16:16] my work, the work I do at Chaos. So, I [16:20] can imagine someone who is not even um [16:22] strongly rooted in the community yet. [16:25] How safe they will feel. So, I I feel we [16:28] should not just leave it. Um let's be [16:30] proactive about it. What can we do while [16:34] the board is attending to to to it [16:36] behind the scenes? [16:38] Yes. Um I first can respond and I'm [16:41] responding as like me Cali as a person [16:44] um not representing any organization [16:47] like I'm a part of or as like I'm not [16:49] speaking from chaos but I completely [16:51] agree um with your sentiment. Um, my [16:56] personal I guess where I hope that [16:59] things go from here is making sure that [17:02] we have an environment where everyone [17:05] can contribute and be and know that [17:08] they're on equal footing with the other [17:12] people around them, whether it be other [17:14] contributors or other maintainers. And [17:17] I'm deeply concerned about what the [17:19] impact of all of this is going to be on [17:22] the community. Um, and like I'll break [17:25] like Augur is a project that I've been [17:27] involved with since the beginning of my [17:29] career. Um, I have put hundreds of hours [17:34] into different formats and different [17:36] ways contributed to the project and to [17:39] have something like that um, taken away [17:43] is really difficult and it's something [17:44] that I never want anyone else to [17:46] experience like putting across like [17:48] everything else aside. Um, and so how we [17:52] can move forward as a community together [17:55] because I am really proud. I can speak [17:57] of the areas of chaos that I've been a [17:59] part of, but I'm incredibly proud of the [18:01] community that we have built around [18:03] Augur and 8 and these data science [18:05] working groups, especially in the past 6 [18:07] months. Um, and to see that get [18:10] discarded in all of this is really [18:12] difficult. Um, but I guess I'm I don't [18:16] really know where my I have no official [18:19] statements. Um, I can say that what I'm [18:21] trying to do within my areas that I'm [18:25] involved in in chaos is trying to make [18:28] sure that there is a place moving [18:30] forward where people can contribute um [18:33] where they know that their contributions [18:36] um are valued and will stay within chaos [18:40] and that they're on equal footing and we [18:42] can move forward um with it being more [18:45] collaboratory and Um, [18:49] yeah, we're this has just never been [18:51] what chaos has been about. And I would [18:53] like it to go back to the like healthy [18:57] collaborative environment that it was [18:58] that I've been involved in for so many [19:00] years. And um, there's probably people [19:04] on this call I haven't talked to [19:05] directly. Um, but this is this is coming [19:09] from me and um, I want this the back and [19:12] forth to stop too. It's really bad for [19:15] the community and I'm being honest, [19:16] really bad for my mental health. It's [19:17] this has been really hard. Um, so any [19:21] comments or suggestions of how we can [19:24] bring this to a close, agree to disagree [19:26] in some areas that I don't think that [19:28] the different parties will probably ever [19:30] be able to come to the same page on um, [19:33] and move forward in the areas where we [19:36] can. Um, I saw Adrian's hand was up and [19:40] sorry for kind of co-opting this, but [19:41] just speaking for me, this is just [19:43] speaking like I I didn't This is just [19:44] speaking from me and [19:47] the last two weeks of Yeah. seeing five [19:51] years of my like open source career turn [19:54] into this. [19:57] >> Yeah, the the race hand on my part was [19:58] just a misclick. meant to I meant to hit [19:59] the react for the for the little heart [20:01] emoji, but um [20:02] >> I I will also add I have seen like as as [20:04] as big and relatively public as as a lot [20:07] of this discussion has been, I've also [20:10] seen like it's [20:13] um there's still a lot of the chaos is [20:14] built with a lot of working groups and a [20:16] lot of different like sort of more more [20:19] smaller groups and uh I've seen in in [20:22] several of those that there's there's [20:24] regular conversations still continuing. [20:26] So I think there is there are places [20:28] people can go and and continue working [20:30] in chaos that kind of maybe avoids [20:33] having to cross paths with some of the [20:35] the discussion if if your style is more [20:38] you'd prefer to just kind of focus on [20:40] your thing. Um, I know I think that I [20:42] think specifically the AI alignment [20:44] working group is um turning some of [20:46] their upcoming meetings into like a [20:49] little just sort of like community like [20:52] hey like here's a space to kind of like [20:55] hold space for people to process what's [20:56] happening but also I think there's other [20:58] like I think the uh um there's a lot of [21:02] good conversations happening in other [21:03] other working groups too that uh is if [21:05] if people's style is more yeah wanting [21:08] to do that. Um, I also have some ideas [21:10] for ways to potentially like if people [21:12] are interested in putting energy towards [21:14] more maybe not necessarily direct [21:16] solutions [21:18] uh as far as talking with um various [21:20] people involved, but maybe helping build [21:23] chaos community infrastructure that is [21:25] more resilient to things like this or [21:27] more independent and community owned. [21:29] Um, I had a couple ideas for that. I [21:31] think I mentioned them on previous [21:33] previous community calls with mostly [21:35] regarding the website, but I'm open to [21:37] open to having those conversations if [21:38] people are looking for various spaces to [21:41] either kind of stay away or or help sort [21:45] of make the community stronger. [21:58] Yeah, I will say I'll speak for myself [22:00] and I'll let Adrian either confirmed and [22:03] I on his side if people have any [22:04] questions about um the actual augur [22:09] community side of this um what the what [22:13] has happened how this has impacted or [22:15] what the experience was for maintainers [22:18] and contributors active contributors [22:20] within the specifically the augur [22:21] community. um what we were told like [22:25] like we weren't told anything that this [22:27] was going to happen. It just we woke up [22:29] and learned it with everybody else. Um, [22:32] and so if there are people have any [22:34] questions as us or as I speak as myself [22:38] as like somebody who's been involved in [22:40] Augur for the last 5 years and what has [22:43] happened like what the the Augur [22:45] community was before this how it has [22:48] been going through this and um what I [22:51] can just say considering as like a a [22:53] contributor myself of how to move [22:55] forward from it um I'm more than happy [22:58] to have any conversations or answer any [23:00] questions whether it be on this channel [23:02] or otherwise. Um, I just really I really [23:05] care about the project and I really care [23:06] about chaos. [23:11] >> Yeah. As far as specifically the GPA [23:13] project goes, I'm I'm definitely working [23:16] um currently a little bit behind the [23:17] scenes just to kind of like I my my main [23:19] goal right now is to is to try and um [23:23] come up with a solution for like where [23:24] can like people who like Augur has had a [23:27] lot of contributors especially in the [23:28] past like 6 months. Um, and I think [23:31] currently a lot of people are interested [23:33] in contributing under chaos but don't [23:34] currently have a repository or a place [23:36] to go to do that. Um, and so as as kind [23:39] of the most active auger maintainer over [23:43] that time period, I I'm sort of taking [23:45] that um on me to try and just figure [23:49] out, okay, where where can I help give [23:52] people a place where they can feel safe [23:54] contributing and um do that under chaos [23:56] and and under community-led [23:59] governance and all that. Um, so that's I [24:01] don't think there's anything really um [24:04] publicly to announce just yet, but I'll [24:06] be I'll be making sure to communicate [24:08] that on on Slack and various other [24:10] places um when when there is something [24:13] that everyone's kind of in agreement on [24:16] as as as a defined path forward. But I'm [24:19] open to questions as well if if people [24:21] have concerns I maybe haven't heard yet [24:24] or anything. So I'm here for the [24:26] community. [24:41] Thank you, Kelly and Adrian. [24:52] I will just say um I I've yeah I have I [24:56] have a lot to say but I will not say [25:00] everything that is on my mind. Um I just [25:03] want to say thank you to everyone for um [25:07] for sticking around and for helping us [25:11] kind of navigate this unknown. uh for [25:14] all of us. This is definitely uncharted [25:17] territory for this community. We've not [25:19] experienced anything even remotely close [25:21] to these recent events. So um it's been [25:25] a bit of a learning experience for all [25:27] of us and um it's you know kind of uh [25:31] it's a test and I hope that we are able [25:33] to heal and uh rebuild some trust as was [25:36] mentioned in the the post from Ruth um [25:39] that was posted on our blog and if you [25:41] haven't seen that I can drop a link into [25:44] uh the chat or the minutes on that. Um, [25:47] I I will say this is uh it's just been a [25:50] very complicated and tricky situation. [25:53] So, I just really appreciate everybody [25:55] um just just showing up and continuing [25:58] to show up um in spite of kind of the [26:02] the conflict that's happening in in [26:04] general and the back and forth. Um [26:08] you know, obviously, not obviously, [26:09] maybe it's not obvious, we we care a lot [26:12] here. I personally care. Oh gosh, I'm [26:14] going to get emotional. I'm sorry. [26:16] Um, yeah. I Yeah, I am very sorry. I'm [26:22] going to stop talking now. [26:28] >> Can you guys hear me? [26:30] >> Yes, we can now. [26:32] >> Um, so I'm new to Chaos and I've never [26:36] seen the Shawn guy come into a meeting, [26:38] so reading this is kind of weird. I've [26:40] seen all you guys. Um, uh, and I have no [26:43] idea what's going on. So, it's a weird [26:45] to be a community member that's only [26:46] been here for a couple weeks and uh the [26:49] one guy that never showed up to any [26:51] meetings and you guys always said, "Hey, [26:52] what's what's going on?" Now, he's [26:54] making decisions. Am I correct here? I'm [26:56] reading this. Sorry. [26:58] >> So, [26:58] >> I Yeah, [27:01] >> I [27:01] >> Yeah, [27:04] >> there's Sean has been with Sean has been [27:06] a part of Chaos since basically Chaos [27:08] was founded. Um, and has been very [27:10] influential in helping Chaos get to [27:12] where it is today. [27:14] Um and I think um [27:18] the there's there's been various kind of [27:20] announcements from the board about what [27:22] has what has happened since the end of [27:24] March um that I think would probably be [27:26] better to read from there. I put the [27:27] link to the uh most recent board's uh [27:31] blog post in the chat if you want to [27:33] kind of read about that. Um yeah, it's [27:36] it's all gone in a very like unexpected [27:39] direction. Basically, nobody knew this [27:41] was going to happen. And so, it's all I [27:43] think at this point, it's all just a [27:44] process of trying to kind of [27:46] go with like kind of follow things [27:48] through, do do what's best for the [27:50] community and and see how how things [27:52] kind of recover from here. [27:55] >> Yeah. I will say at the most basic level [27:58] from my perspective is um about two [28:01] weeks ago um Sean decided to move the [28:05] Augur repository from out and from cha [28:08] the chaos organization without any cons [28:11] um consultation with other maintainers [28:13] or contributors to Augur um citing [28:16] disagreements with the board and um [28:20] changes to the election um structure and [28:24] there is a a lot of back and forth of [28:28] the the accuracy of claims. And so [28:31] that's what I would say, but I'll let [28:33] other people speak. Um, but that's the [28:36] the basic and things have gotten really [28:39] messy since, but um I was Coraline. Um, [28:42] I saw her hand go up first. [28:45] >> Hey everybody. Um, I am relatively new [28:48] to Chaos. I've been working with the AI [28:50] alignment working group since about uh I [28:52] think September or October and that's [28:54] been my major contribution so far. Um so [28:57] this has been a very alarming thing to [28:59] kind of witness from my perspective. Um [29:02] I want to say a couple things. First of [29:04] all, I appreciate the fact that this is [29:08] an emotional issue. Um, I appreciate [29:12] people on this call being vulnerable [29:15] about the very serious um, very shocking [29:20] things that are happening uh, in your [29:22] lives and in your careers. And if [29:24] there's anything that I can do to to [29:27] listen or help in any kind of way, I'm [29:29] right here. Okay. Um, second point is I [29:34] think that regardless of what is the [29:37] what what the what the back office kind [29:39] of lications of this are um that uh this [29:43] has become a community management [29:44] problem at least what's happening in [29:46] Slack has become a community management [29:48] problem and I think it should be [29:49] addressed from that angle as well [29:53] >> um thank you so much for that um [29:56] peculiar [30:00] >> um mine is um like a suggestion a [30:03] question can that conversation be moved [30:06] to a specific Chanel [30:10] uh because I'm thinking general Chanel [30:12] is where everyone that comes into chaos [30:15] like the first place they see and they [30:18] follow read through to see the [30:20] conversation and then learn what is [30:22] happening in the community. I'm thinking [30:24] if we can move that conversation to a [30:27] new channel where every other person [30:30] that's interested try to explain try to [30:33] get people to understand move to that [30:35] channel and that continue that [30:36] conversation there it will I'm thinking [30:41] it might be better I'm not saying the [30:46] conversation should stop but could [30:48] continue in that channel so that we keep [30:51] the generation of for newcomers that are [30:53] coming down that not aware of what is [30:55] happening and so we can also have a [30:59] track of other conversation that is [31:01] going on in the generation now. So um [31:03] just like suggesting and then seeing if [31:08] that will work. Yeah, [31:11] >> I think that's a fantastic idea. Um if [31:14] you feel comfortable putting that like [31:16] cuz like we have our our group here but [31:18] if you feel comfortable suggesting that [31:20] in the general chat that would be great. [31:21] If not, I am more than happy to just [31:24] state this was an idea that was brought [31:26] up in the community call today. Um but [31:30] um I can speak just from me as a person [31:33] and I think that's a fantastic idea. [31:36] Yeah, to to reiterate one of my comments [31:37] in the chat, um I think at a technical [31:40] level, I don't think we're able to move [31:42] messages retroactively in Slack, but I [31:45] think I do I do really like that idea [31:47] and I think maybe we could make just as [31:49] a community make some posts in in [31:52] general that are more sort of like, hey, [31:54] welcome to Chaos. here's here's like all [31:56] these working groups you can like just [31:58] sort of the usual kind of newcomers [31:59] content to kind of just have those be [32:01] the first thing people see and then any [32:03] if the if the discussion is sort of [32:06] being attempted to be brought up again [32:07] in general maybe trying to redirect like [32:09] hey can we do this in random or another [32:11] channel um I I think I think that's [32:14] maybe a very like I I very much agree [32:16] with doing something like that. [32:19] Yeah, I think it's worth a discussion [32:22] like [32:23] no matter what. [32:31] >> Oh, can you guys just copy the repo and [32:34] keep going? [32:36] >> That's that's one of the options we're [32:38] considering this. Um, I think the the [32:40] discussion that we were just having now [32:42] was more around the Slack conversation [32:44] and like are newcomers going to be kind [32:48] of pushed away from the community if [32:49] they if they immediate the first thing [32:51] they see when they join Slack is a whole [32:53] bunch of drama and and people arguing. [32:56] Um, [32:58] but I think I think there's also some [32:59] valid points like Mary Blessing's [33:00] pointing out in the chat about how maybe [33:02] it's okay for for newcomers to kind of [33:04] see the real kind of truth of what's [33:07] going on. Um [33:09] so yeah [33:11] >> um yeah I can sorry I can speak from [33:13] like as like a contributor of Augur and [33:17] that [33:18] I have interest and want to continue [33:21] contributing to a project about data [33:24] collection under chaos um and there is a [33:30] decent amount of interest of doing that [33:32] um what form that is um I'm hoping that [33:35] things can settle soon so that the [33:39] project can actually move forward. Um, [33:42] that's it's honestly like we're just [33:44] talking about like functionally. Um, [33:46] it's a problem that I like I can't I [33:49] have all these things I need to actually [33:50] like from like a software standpoint [33:52] wanting to work on. Um, and I would like [33:53] to get back to working on the project [33:55] that I use every day. Um so [34:00] yes the answer is whatever what that [34:02] form is we'll see but we'll be there [34:05] will be people that will continue to [34:07] work on the project under chaos that is [34:10] on data collection [34:18] I saw you going on camera I don't know [34:19] if you're wanting to or you just kind of [34:22] joining me on the [34:25] being on camera. [34:46] Um, I was just going to mention also [34:49] that um the board is to my knowledge um [34:55] sorting out a plan moving forward. I am [34:58] not on the board. So I um you know I'm [35:02] I'm getting information from them. I'm [35:04] getting information from the community. [35:06] Um trying to kind of sort everything out [35:09] and um I do want to apologize for if I [35:13] contributed to the back and forth, which [35:15] I I feel like I did today. Um I was [35:19] honestly just trying to get some [35:20] information because people have been [35:22] asking me what's going on, how did this, [35:24] you know, how did my email get to this [35:27] person? So, I was really looking for [35:29] just an honest information. Um, and I'm [35:32] sorry if if I contributed to that. That [35:35] was I did not want to do that and I um I [35:37] feel like I did. So, I apologize for [35:39] that. Um, if people do, you know, I I'm [35:43] always here as well. So, if people want [35:45] to reach out to me personally with [35:47] concerns or, you know, something they [35:49] don't want to share in a broader in a [35:52] broader space either on general or here [35:54] even, I'm more than happy to have a [35:57] one-on-one conversation with folks. um [35:59] whether that be in Slack, on a call, [36:01] like whatever that looks like. Um I I [36:03] will just say that it is it is being [36:05] handled and um it it it feels like it [36:10] has taken a while and I think that maybe [36:12] that's because um the I think the board [36:15] is trying to come to a an amicable [36:18] resolution and um you know a [36:21] compassionate and empathetic one and um [36:24] so there has been a lot of discussion as [36:26] far as I understand about like what are [36:28] some good next steps what you know how [36:30] can we all move forward and [36:33] um you know, put this behind us and and [36:35] move forward. So um yeah, just wanted to [36:37] mention that. I am sorry if I did [36:39] contribute to that. Um I should say I'm [36:41] sorry that I did contribute to that back [36:43] and forth. Um yeah, [36:48] >> when's the next board member voting? [36:54] >> We have the board elections are coming [36:56] up very soon. Um that was kind of the [36:59] beginning. Uh, do we have an exact date [37:01] on um when that I know it's I know the [37:05] answer is soon, but I didn't know if [37:06] there's um when we'll be um opening it [37:10] up [37:11] >> in those poll requests that I think [37:14] Elizabeth said that they're [37:16] >> Yeah. [37:17] >> Yeah. [37:18] >> That's [37:20] sorry I'm interrupting. Um April 20th is [37:22] when it will open for nominations. Um, [37:26] so, uh, there is a guide again that's in [37:28] that PR that shows you exactly what to [37:30] do if you want to nominate yourself to [37:32] be, uh, up for election on the board. [37:35] And, um, yeah, and then we have a, uh, [37:38] an open office hours on Thursday, the [37:39] April 23rd. So, if you have questions, [37:42] you can pop in there. I believe that [37:44] that period of time for nominations, I [37:47] have to look at the actual dates, but I [37:50] think it's maybe close to a month. So, [37:52] you know, there's no super rush on um [37:55] getting yourself nominated if if that's [37:57] kind of in your future if you would like [37:59] to do that. There's going to be no rush. [38:01] So, you have time to um figure out what [38:04] steps you need to take, what you want to [38:06] do, how you want to um add your name, [38:08] because it's a there's a process. You [38:10] just fill out a um a a a markdown file [38:13] with your name and information about [38:15] yourself and then that that file will go [38:18] into the ele software and you'll that's [38:21] how your name will appear as one of the [38:23] candidates. So it's all spelled out in [38:25] the in that PR um which again just needs [38:29] board approval to get merged in. Um so [38:31] that should be happening in the next few [38:32] days. [38:37] >> Yeah. Um, I also want to follow [38:40] Elizabeth's like lead of I I know today [38:43] that I also contributed to the back and [38:46] forth. Um, I think over the last two [38:48] weeks it's been really difficult for me [38:50] to feel like I've had a lot of questions [38:53] and a lot of things that I've asked Sean [38:57] or things I would ask Sean to address [38:59] and the comments would always go back to [39:02] either the board and now the AI [39:04] alignment group. And I think that [39:08] it it wore on me in ways that I was know [39:10] like I kind of lost the ability to [39:15] stay stay quiet. Um but I don't think [39:17] that it even saying that I don't know if [39:20] it really contributed to beneficial [39:23] conversation to the community. Um so [39:27] it's it's a tough [39:29] >> I'm reading my best. [39:31] >> You guys did good. You guys did real [39:32] good. you needed to voice your opinions. [39:35] This is great. Uh this is this is what I [39:37] was looking for in the beginning. I I [39:39] felt like there was some weird tension [39:40] when I entered this group and now it [39:42] makes sense. I appreciate it. Um and you [39:46] have to do this to move forward. [39:49] Thank you. [39:50] Um, [39:52] yeah, I'm I'm glad to have had the [39:54] opportunity for the people on this call [39:56] and I'm sure that I think this will be a [39:58] really important one to um get published [40:01] where people can see the things that [40:03] people are saying. I think Luc, you had [40:05] a fantastic point in chat earlier that [40:08] it's speaking verbally to each other. Um [40:11] there's tone and there's intent that is [40:14] able to be shown in ways that you can't [40:16] over um written text. And so I'm very [40:19] appreciative of the I guess the [40:22] opportunity to kind of show me as a [40:24] person not as a name in Slack or a name [40:27] on GitHub. Um and if my intentions or [40:32] motivations was never was unclear to [40:34] certain people that it's I I feel like I [40:37] have made myself where you know where I [40:39] am coming from and where I honest been [40:44] hurt in this and um that I'm trying my [40:48] best. [40:58] And I know the the timing of everything [41:00] also is unfortunate. Um for those who [41:03] don't know, chaos has been uh grant [41:06] funded for 9 years and that grant came [41:09] to an end at the beginning of March. And [41:12] so um there's been a transition period [41:14] as you know we kind of figure out what [41:17] we're doing with things like Slack and [41:18] trying to get to get that taken care of [41:20] the paid you know the paid instance of [41:22] that. um things like our calendar, like [41:24] how are we going to get that paid for? [41:26] My personal um job is is no longer. Um [41:30] we we do have a grant that was from from [41:36] Sloan through the University of [41:38] Missouri. I I don't know what will [41:39] happen with that quite frankly. Like I'm [41:41] assuming it will go forward, but like [41:43] who knows? There's so much uncertainty [41:46] that is was already here, you know, that [41:48] we were trying to navigate. And so this [41:51] extra layer of complication and [41:54] complexity um has been very tricky to to [41:58] navigate. So I do appreciate everyone's [42:01] patience with that as well. Um we [42:04] assuming this grant does go through, we [42:06] do have plans for sustainability. We [42:09] will have a year to figure out what [42:11] comes next and how we build that out. Um [42:14] you know there's there are some tenative [42:16] plans in place. We just are waiting for [42:18] final confirmation. Um, so yeah, and I I [42:23] hate kind of having to say like, "Oh, [42:26] it's coming. It's coming. You should [42:27] just trust us." What, you know, that's [42:29] not a great answer. I totally [42:31] understand. I just don't want to [42:32] misspeak before things are, you know, [42:35] actually signed, honestly. Um, so that I [42:38] just appreciate everybody's patience [42:40] while we have, you know, we have new [42:42] elections, we have to figure out Slack, [42:44] we have to figure out these other pieces [42:46] of this moving puzzle. Um, so I just, [42:48] yeah, I appreciate everybody everybody's [42:51] support and and patience and compassion. [43:04] We have a few more minutes before the [43:06] end of this meeting. Um, I think that [43:10] leaving room for some pause in case [43:12] there's people who haven't spoken that [43:14] have something they would like to say. [43:15] It's not a just knowing that this is [43:19] still an an open community where people [43:22] can say how they think or feel and we [43:24] can try and we're going to navigate this [43:26] together. And I I can just say that I [43:29] really appreciate everyone showing up um [43:32] here. [43:46] >> Is everyone going to keep coming to the [43:48] meetings and keep rolling as possible? [43:52] >> I'm not going anywhere. You'll be seeing [43:54] me. [43:56] Louis. Yeah, Louis. So, this is your [43:58] hands gone up. [44:00] >> Yeah. [44:04] >> Well, folks, sorry because I'm late. So, [44:07] but uh this morning I I saw the the [44:10] thread. So, so I just wanted to to say [44:13] hello because these situations are [44:15] tough. I've been in similar situations [44:16] in the past. So, this is something that [44:19] is kind of common in open source [44:21] communities. So, so you are you you're [44:23] doing your best. So, so don't uh don't [44:26] take it too too hard with you because we [44:28] are we are trying to do the best we can. [44:31] So, uh regarding the let's let's imagine [44:34] that this is already passed um uh what's [44:38] going to have to happen with with with [44:40] our codebase uh because Khali you are uh [44:43] you are contributor and you have [44:45] committer rights right? [44:47] >> Yes. And Adrian Adrien is a um listed [44:51] and active maintainer. Okay. Um so um [44:56] part of what is the only thing that I [44:58] can say for sure right now is that there [45:01] will be a community and project under [45:04] chaos that is in the whether it's called [45:09] augur or called something else. Um I [45:11] know that there is a lot of interest [45:13] within the the contributor body to [45:16] continue working on this and there are a [45:18] lot of people who want to continue [45:20] working on this under chaos. Um, so what [45:22] exactly form that goes? Um, there's [45:26] there's board conversations and I think [45:28] there is still attempts to try to have [45:30] some reconciliation or at least just an [45:32] amicable um end to things. Um, and so [45:36] not wanting to [45:39] I guess trying to give the best [45:41] opportunity for at least an uh, as you [45:43] kind of were saying in chat like an [45:45] agree to disagree an amicable close. Um, [45:48] however that looks like I think that is [45:51] at least my personal goal, but um I'm [45:54] hoping that this can wrap up to an [45:56] extent soon because the project um has [46:00] been put on pause. I mean, no is there's [46:03] the uncertainty and so nobody has [46:05] touched the repository um besides Sean [46:08] since the move has happened. Um, and so [46:10] I can only speak for myself on saying I [46:13] will I would I will be an active um [46:19] um influence or I will like that's [46:21] something that I plan on working on and [46:23] am starting to think about and work on [46:25] with other people who are interested and [46:26] continue working on this project in [46:29] chaos. [46:32] >> Yep. And I I agree with that and I'm [46:34] basically I'll just add that I'm I'm [46:35] essentially taking it as my my personal [46:37] responsibility to make sure that the [46:40] community has a repository they feel [46:41] like they can contribute to under chaos. [46:43] Uh so I think that's that might take [46:46] some time again with all the kind of [46:48] conversations with the board and making [46:49] sure that the whole community is on [46:50] board with the plan but there will be [46:53] something and and I'll make sure it's [46:54] it's pretty thoroughly announced when [46:56] that when that happens. [47:00] There is something that uh we I mean we [47:03] the people uh who contributed to Grimmer [47:05] Lab that we tried in the past that was [47:07] to reach an agreement with with Sean and [47:10] at least to to contribute to some common [47:12] components. Uh I know I know that [47:15] Grimmer Lab has funding for the next [47:17] three years uh because uh uh we got a [47:21] European project and two people are [47:24] going to be working on the project. [47:26] Maybe it is a new opportunity to to see [47:28] if there's something in common that we [47:29] can we can do even if the approaches are [47:31] different there. There may be common uh [47:34] components and uh if we collaborate is [47:36] what uh I'm pretty sure that the result [47:38] is going to be stronger. So maybe this [47:40] is a good opportunity to do to to [47:42] discuss this again. [47:44] >> Yeah, it's funny that you bring that up [47:45] because I think I've actually heard that [47:46] conversation that that idea brought up [47:48] in in other other groups I'm in related [47:51] to this as well. um in in the idea of [47:53] like hey we as as chaos we we have these [47:56] two software projects that there's augur [47:58] and there's grimmorab and h like and I [48:01] think even I recently learned that [48:02] there's also a chaos Africa software [48:04] team um and I didn't know that until [48:06] recently because all the the calendar [48:08] events were under chaos Africa not under [48:10] chaos software so I think there would [48:12] there's definitely room to potentially [48:14] create some kind of slack group or some [48:16] kind of common space where all all of [48:19] these different groups working on [48:20] software projects within chaos can kind [48:22] of have a shared space to like hey [48:24] you're working on metrics I'm working on [48:26] metrics can we can we share some [48:28] components can like I think um like the [48:31] AI detection like GitHub actions thing I [48:33] think is a cool project that started [48:35] recently that needs needs some help and [48:37] could potentially benefit all of the [48:38] metrics tools and everything. So, that's [48:41] definitely I think something that we [48:43] could probably even um I don't want to [48:45] say too much about when when or when we [48:46] can get started, but I think yeah, that [48:47] that seems like it would be a relatively [48:49] easy ask to just get a quick board sign [48:51] off on and create a create a Slack [48:53] channel and and give people a space to [48:55] start kind of working working past [48:58] things. [48:59] Yeah, you'll probably I I've been [49:01] wanting to [49:03] create a working group or I mean I it's [49:05] it's unofficially but I think if we're [49:08] talking about chaos software there's a [49:10] lot of things that go under that [49:11] umbrella. Uh like having a working group [49:14] channel and call that is spec that that [49:16] is for chaos software I think is really [49:19] valuable. I don't know exactly how that [49:21] looks because I know that they're like [49:22] right now the like augur 8 not one is [49:24] like very technical towards like the [49:27] project itself and working on things and [49:28] like how does there need to be like [49:31] multiple separate meetings or we're [49:32] going to have one together. I don't [49:33] really know how that all works just yet. [49:36] Um but I I can say that in multiple [49:40] occasions I have been wanting to like [49:42] propose a like the maybe a ren a [49:46] reestablishment of like a working a [49:48] software working group that fits under [49:50] and I know that there are some other [49:52] projects that are around the general [49:54] topic of doing analysis around open [49:56] source communities that are really [49:58] interested of formally going under chaos [50:01] and so I think there's a lot of actually [50:03] really exciting software development [50:05] that is under like kind of the [50:06] overarching chaos umbrella and I'm [50:08] hoping to move the focus towards that [50:12] and the exciting things that do come [50:14] from that like there is a lot of like [50:16] good attention and like contributions [50:18] and things going on and I'm ready to get [50:20] back to doing that and seeing like how [50:22] can we better collaborate between [50:24] Grimmore Lab and Augur or Grimmore Lab [50:27] and like the eight knot side and stuff [50:28] like that. Um and so yeah, at the very [50:32] least I think it's worth a conversation. [50:34] Um, and I would like biasly I'm also on [50:37] the like okay what is like going on from [50:38] like a data science and analysis [50:40] standpoint is there more like overlap on [50:42] what we're looking at data wise not just [50:44] the software engineering side. So [50:47] these are the things I'm actually [50:49] wanting to work on. [50:58] >> Hi Kali. Yes, [51:00] >> I also want to make mention that there [51:03] is the DEI budgeon project which has [51:06] three requisites under it [51:08] >> currently being maintained by me and um [51:11] Desmondo BC [51:14] and then we have a high working group [51:16] that also um see to the maintenance of [51:20] this project. So yeah, we count it under [51:23] the software even though it's not part [51:25] of the two ones that are majorly talked [51:27] about [51:28] >> but it's still mentioned under software. [51:30] So we are going to be aggregating all of [51:33] this together so much um I I think it's [51:37] great [51:38] >> and u available to to ensure that we [51:41] move this forward. [51:43] Yeah, I think that's [51:47] you'll see kind of I I think my [51:48] conversations in the general and and [51:50] different chats will probably start [51:52] focusing more on this because this is [51:54] something I've been thinking about [51:55] excited about. It's I'm really great to [51:57] hear from some of the other software [51:59] folks that it seems like a more like [52:02] formal or talked about umbrella that [52:03] doesn't just limit to Augur and and [52:06] Grimmore Lab. looking at the badging [52:08] projects and having a better collaborate [52:10] like collaboration across these [52:12] different projects. Um I think we can [52:16] turn more of our focus towards how we [52:18] can like connect across those and I um I [52:21] don't want to speak too much but I said [52:22] I do know of some more software focused [52:25] um like projects that want to come under [52:27] chaos that are around this that I think [52:29] really fits in well with a lot of the [52:31] different things that we're working on [52:33] um and across different time zones as [52:35] well that I that's one of the things [52:37] that I think I like the most about chaos [52:39] is that it's one of like I get to work [52:41] with people all over the world [52:43] Who who gets to say that? Like that's so [52:46] cool. [52:55] All right. Well, if nobody has anything [52:57] else, I know we've gone a little bit [52:58] over, but I just honestly it was great [53:01] to talk about something that's not it's [53:03] a focus on software and as the actual [53:06] projects. Um, [53:09] so yeah, unless anybody has anything [53:11] else, I think we can wrap up. [53:16] >> Thank you, Cali, for just facilitating [53:18] this most difficult of meetings. [53:21] >> Happy to. [53:26] It's all downhill from now, right? [53:29] >> This is your first one. [53:30] >> Only up. [53:31] >> It's only [53:32] uphill, right? Uphill. It's all easy [53:34] from here. [53:37] Well, have a great week everybody and [53:38] I'm looking forward to talking more [53:40] soon. [53:40] >> Thank you. [53:44] >> Have a one. Thank you.  📄 **Full text:** ![[Full Document Contents/Articles/CHAOSS Weekly Community Call, April 14 2026.md|CHAOSS Weekly Community Call, April 14 2026 by YouTube]] ## Highlights - leads, but I'm really excited about the work that's going on over there. There's a lot of really um yeah, great work. It's probably it's what I always I guess envisioned or wanted um to be going on around data science in this community. So, it's it's cool to see it all coming to life and new people getting involved um and being active in chaos. ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01kpb66pt1w4mwhqksnpr3ghcg)) - Tags: 👻 ai highlighted - leads, but I'm really excited about the work that's going on over there. There's a lot of really um yeah, great work. It's probably it's what I always I guess envisioned or wanted um to be going on around data science in this community. So, it's it's cool to see it all coming to life and new people getting involved um and being active in chaos. ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01kpb688cxf5hrq5wde478wz45)) - Tags: 👻 ai highlighted - I'll give a few more minutes um to see and also um at this point we don't really have anything on our agenda. Um, so if people have specific topics that they would like to bring up or like any updates from different working groups, I guess unofficially I just gave a update from the data science working group. I can always go into that a little bit more um and talk about some of the stuff that's going on there. Um ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01kpb66pt59xm5zqeb5pybsstw)) - Tags: 👻 ai highlighted - I'll give a few more minutes um to see and also um at this point we don't really have anything on our agenda. Um, so if people have specific topics that they would like to bring up or like any updates from different working groups, I guess unofficially I just gave a update from the data science working group. I can always go into that a little bit more um and talk about some of the stuff that's going on there. Um ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01kpb688d2evtcvj5y5t0gy2ts)) - Tags: 👻 ai highlighted - call um but in the community call we haven't talked about the data science working group or um updates on the 8 knot project in a while. Um we've put in a lot of work to um update our issue backlog and set up opportunities for more people to contribute and get involved in with these projects. And the big area around that is on the um visualizations. Um so now on the 8 knot and the data science working group side ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01kpb66ptcqpf5bqvznxgt9rc0)) - Tags: 👻 ai highlighted - call um but in the community call we haven't talked about the data science working group or um updates on the 8 knot project in a while. Um we've put in a lot of work to um update our issue backlog and set up opportunities for more people to contribute and get involved in with these projects. And the big area around that is on the um visualizations. Um so now on the 8 knot and the data science working group side ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01kpb688d9n5pt1kqjpp5fbtqh)) - Tags: 👻 ai highlighted - proactive about it. What can we do while the board is attending to to to it behind the scenes? Yes. Um I first can respond and I'm responding as like me Cali as a person um not representing any organization like I'm a part of or as like I'm not speaking from chaos but I completely agree um with your sentiment. Um, my personal I guess where I hope that things go from here is making sure that ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01kpb66pvpgfzw4cm39k38ghxb)) - Tags: 👻 ai highlighted - proactive about it. What can we do while the board is attending to to to it behind the scenes? Yes. Um I first can respond and I'm responding as like me Cali as a person um not representing any organization like I'm a part of or as like I'm not speaking from chaos but I completely agree um with your sentiment. Um, my personal I guess where I hope that things go from here is making sure that ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01kpb688erwn42cnyhtg9b8vch)) - Tags: 👻 ai highlighted - community that we have built around Augur and 8 and these data science working groups, especially in the past 6 months. Um, and to see that get discarded in all of this is really difficult. Um, but I guess I'm I don't really know where my I have no official statements. Um, I can say that what I'm trying to do within my areas that I'm involved in in chaos is trying to make sure that there is a place moving ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01kpb66px4pgdw1g0kvmac5hvs)) - Tags: 👻 ai highlighted - community that we have built around Augur and 8 and these data science working groups, especially in the past 6 months. Um, and to see that get discarded in all of this is really difficult. Um, but I guess I'm I don't really know where my I have no official statements. Um, I can say that what I'm trying to do within my areas that I'm involved in in chaos is trying to make sure that there is a place moving ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01kpb688g7gmh4yegjgq4rgd08)) - Tags: 👻 ai highlighted - don't think there's anything really um publicly to announce just yet, but I'll be I'll be making sure to communicate that on on Slack and various other places um when when there is something that everyone's kind of in agreement on as as as a defined path forward. But I'm open to questions as well if if people have concerns I maybe haven't heard yet or anything. So I'm here for the community. ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01kpb66pzj3625rbb93spy6rxm)) - Tags: 👻 ai highlighted - don't think there's anything really um publicly to announce just yet, but I'll be I'll be making sure to communicate that on on Slack and various other places um when when there is something that everyone's kind of in agreement on as as as a defined path forward. But I'm open to questions as well if if people have concerns I maybe haven't heard yet or anything. So I'm here for the community. ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01kpb688jj7b3p47w14yhkzqn4)) - Tags: 👻 ai highlighted - So we are going to be aggregating all of this together so much um I I think it's great >> and u available to to ensure that we move this forward. Yeah, I think that's you'll see kind of I I think my conversations in the general and and different chats will probably start focusing more on this because this is something I've been thinking about excited about. It's I'm really great to hear from some of the other software folks that it seems like a more like ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01kpb66q5qv8tmtfb1762gfj7g)) - Tags: 👻 ai highlighted - So we are going to be aggregating all of this together so much um I I think it's great >> and u available to to ensure that we move this forward. Yeah, I think that's you'll see kind of I I think my conversations in the general and and different chats will probably start focusing more on this because this is something I've been thinking about excited about. It's I'm really great to hear from some of the other software folks that it seems like a more like ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01kpb688qh8mf9r8exft179d7v)) - Tags: 👻 ai highlighted - to talk about something that's not it's a focus on software and as the actual projects. Um, so yeah, unless anybody has anything else, I think we can wrap up. >> Thank you, Cali, for just facilitating this most difficult of meetings. >> Happy to. It's all downhill from now, right? >> This is your first one. ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01kpb66qmr4tn2fb2yqp71wces)) - Tags: 👻 ai highlighted - to talk about something that's not it's a focus on software and as the actual projects. Um, so yeah, unless anybody has anything else, I think we can wrap up. >> Thank you, Cali, for just facilitating this most difficult of meetings. >> Happy to. It's all downhill from now, right? >> This is your first one. ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01kpb68933dewxk4pn56m6w43z)) - Tags: 👻 ai highlighted