Episode 286 Jack Skinner of PyCon AU and Regional Confs

Episode 286: Jack Skinner of PyCon AU and Regional Confs ![rw-book-cover](https://img.youtube.com/vi/4oFer1ZxlW8/maxresdefault.jpg) 🔗 **Source:** [Episode 286: Jack Skinner of PyCon AU and Regional Confs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oFer1ZxlW8) > [!note]+ Document Notes > tags: #python #conferences #community-organizing #regional-conferences #sustainability #volunteering #open-source-events > author: Richard Littauer > source: Sustain Podcast > reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oFer1ZxlW8 > date created: 2024-12-19 10:30 > > # 🏷️ Title: Episode 286: Jack Skinner of PyCon AU and Regional Confs >  ## 🧰 Action Inbox - [H1] Submit CFP to PyCon AU by March 29 — deadline anywhere on Earth #python #conferences - [H2] Consider volunteering for regional conferences — 2-3 months before events #community-organizing - [H3] Buy tickets early to support conference sustainability — reduces organizer stress #event-planning ## 🧭 Table of Contents - [[#📝 Summary]] - [[#📖 Main Content]] - [[#🗒️ Notes]] - [[#📚 References]] - [[#🗣️ Paraphrase]] - [[#📰 Newsletter]] - [[#✅ Action Items]] - [[#🧪 Hypotheses]] - [[#📊 Methodology]] - [[#❓ Questions]] - [[#🔮 Future Research]] - [[#💡 Implications]] - [[#🧠 Learning Styles Assessment]] - [[#📊 Accessibility Assessment]] - [[#🌍 DEIB Assessment]] - [[#✅ Logical Validity]] - [[#🛡️ DARVO Analysis]] - [[#🎯 Conclusion]] ### 🔗 References - [PyCon AU](https://pycon-au.org) - [Python Software Foundation](https://python.org/psf/) - [Sustain Podcast](https://podcast.oss.org) ## 📝 Summary - Jack Skinner discusses organizing PyCon AU, Australia's national Python conference, targeting 500-600 attendees in Brisbane - Regional conferences provide local community building independent of PSF financial support, addressing geographic and timezone challenges - Conference sustainability requires early planning (18-month cycles), sponsor diversity, volunteer pipelines, and transparent operations - Key challenges include organizer burnout, venue selection across continent-sized geography, and post-COVID economic constraints - Bottom line: Regional conferences are essential infrastructure for open source sustainability, requiring community investment through attendance, volunteering, and sponsorship ## 📖 Main Content PyCon AU serves as Australia's national Python conference, addressing the unique challenges of organizing events across a continent-sized geography with 25+ million people. Unlike the US-based Python Software Foundation conferences, regional events operate with complete financial independence while serving diverse audiences from high school students (Python is in Australia's national curriculum) to enterprise developers. The conference demonstrates several sustainability principles: 18-month planning cycles to prevent organizer burnout, transparent "director's desk" blog posts explaining decision-making processes, and "shadow team" programs to develop future organizers. Financial sustainability comes through tiered ticket pricing (enthusiast vs professional), diverse sponsorship packages beyond monetary support, and strong relationships with local Python meetups as community pipeline. Jack emphasizes that conferences function as "co-working spaces with interruptions called talks," prioritizing community connection over purely technical content. This sociotechnical approach addresses the geographic isolation of Australian Python developers from global communities centered in Europe and North America. ## 🗒️ Notes #### ⏱️ [00:00](https://youtu.be/4oFer1ZxlW8?t=0) — [H1] Introduction and Regional Conference Value - Key idea: Regional conferences address geographic and timezone barriers for local communities - Evidence: "Communities like those in Australia are on the opposite side of the world" #### ⏱️ [03:45](https://youtu.be/4oFer1ZxlW8?t=225) — [H2] Jack's Python Journey and Conference Involvement - Key idea: Volunteer recruitment often happens through friend networks and gradual involvement - Evidence: "Katie said hey do you want to get involved next year? I said, 'Yeah, I'll give you a hand.' Little did I know, I'd accidentally been volunttoled" #### ⏱️ [08:30](https://youtu.be/4oFer1ZxlW8?t=510) — [H1] PyCon AU Scope and Audience - Key idea: Python conferences serve extremely broad audiences from education to enterprise - Evidence: "Python is part of the national curriculum in Australia. We have high school teachers teaching high school students Python" #### ⏱️ [12:15](https://youtu.be/4oFer1ZxlW8?t=735) — [H2] Post-COVID Conference Adaptation - Key idea: Core conference values remain but operational environment has fundamentally changed - Evidence: "The heart of the conference is very much the same, we're operating it in a very different world" #### ⏱️ [15:20](https://youtu.be/4oFer1ZxlW8?t=920) — [H1] Financial Independence from PSF - Key idea: Regional conferences operate with complete financial independence from central organizations - Evidence: "There is no financial support from the PSF to regional conferences like PyCon AU" #### ⏱️ [18:45](https://youtu.be/4oFer1ZxlW8?t=1125) — [H2] Geographic Challenges in Australia - Key idea: Venue selection requires balancing travel costs across continent-sized geography - Evidence: "Which city do we run a conference in took us 6 months to determine for this year's conference" #### ⏱️ [22:10](https://youtu.be/4oFer1ZxlW8?t=1330) — [H1] Conference Size and Growth Goals - Key idea: Targeting 500-600 attendees represents return to pre-COVID strength plus growth - Evidence: "We're looking at 5 to 600 attendees is my target number. That's sort of on par with previous years plus a little bit of growth" #### ⏱️ [25:30](https://youtu.be/4oFer1ZxlW8?t=1530) — [H2] Sponsor Relationship Complexity - Key idea: Sponsorship involves multiple overlapping objectives beyond simple monetary exchange - Evidence: "It's very rare that we talk to a company and they just want one thing. There's usually a package of overlapping objectives" #### ⏱️ [29:15](https://youtu.be/4oFer1ZxlW8?t=1755) — [H1] Community Pipeline Strategy - Key idea: Sustainable conferences require active local meetup communities as foundation - Evidence: "We have to have local monthlyish gatherings where people are active and engaged before we get to hey come along to this conference" #### ⏱️ [32:40](https://youtu.be/4oFer1ZxlW8?t=1960) — [H2] Future Organizer Development - Key idea: Preventing organizer burnout requires transparent pipeline for future leadership - Evidence: "One of the programs I'm working on is establishing what I'm affectionately calling the shadow team" #### ⏱️ [36:20](https://youtu.be/4oFer1ZxlW8?t=2180) — [H1] Transparency and Open Operations - Key idea: Open source principles should extend to conference organization processes - Evidence: "The openness in open source is really important and a lot of what goes on at conferences tends to be more private and behind closed doors" #### ⏱️ [41:50](https://youtu.be/4oFer1ZxlW8?t=2510) — [H2] Conference as Community Infrastructure - Key idea: Conferences primarily serve community building rather than pure technical education - Evidence: "I think about a conference as a way to bring people together, to share ideas, to challenge one another" #### ⏱️ [48:30](https://youtu.be/4oFer1ZxlW8?t=2910) — [H1] Call for Proposals and Academic Track - Key idea: CFP closes March 29 with academic proceedings option for career researchers - Evidence: "The call for proposals ends in a little over 2 and 1/2 weeks on the 29th of March anywhere on Earth" #### ⏱️ [52:45](https://youtu.be/4oFer1ZxlW8?t=3165) — [H2] Volunteering and Financial Sustainability - Key idea: Early ticket purchases reduce organizer stress and improve conference sustainability - Evidence: "If we see revenue from tickets coming in at a steady pace because people are buying tickets early, it means we're less likely to burn out as volunteers" ## 📚 References - [PyCon AU Website](https://pycon-au.org) - [Python Software Foundation](https://python.org/psf/) - [Pretalx Conference Management](https://pretalx.org) - [Pretix Ticketing System](https://pretix.eu) - [Sustain Podcast](https://podcast.oss.org) ## 🗣️ Paraphrase - Regional Python conferences provide essential local community infrastructure that addresses geographic and timezone barriers, operating with complete financial independence from central organizations like the PSF - Conference sustainability requires systematic approaches to prevent organizer burnout, including extended planning cycles, transparent operations, and structured programs to develop future leadership - The primary value of technical conferences lies in community building and networking rather than pure technical content delivery, functioning as spaces for authentic connection and collaboration ## 📰 Newsletter PyCon AU 2025 demonstrates how regional conferences build sustainable open source communities across geographic barriers. With CFPs closing March 29, this Brisbane event targets 500-600 attendees through innovative approaches: 18-month planning cycles, shadow teams for future organizers, and academic proceedings tracks. Key sustainability lessons: early ticket purchases reduce volunteer burnout, transparent operations attract future organizers, and strong local meetup communities create conference pipeline. The event operates with complete financial independence from the Python Software Foundation while serving audiences from high school students to enterprise developers. The conference uses open source tools Pretalx and Pretix for operations, emphasizing that regional events provide essential community infrastructure that large centralized conferences cannot replace. Resources: [Learn WordPress](https://learn.wordpress.org/), [Developer Docs](https://developer.wordpress.org/), [WP-CLI](https://wp-cli.org/) ## ✅ Action Items #### DevRel - Conference outreach: develop CFP promotion strategy for regional Python events - Community engagement: establish relationships with local Python meetup organizers - Content strategy: create case studies on regional conference sustainability models #### Community - Maintainers: document transparent governance processes similar to PyCon AU's "director's desk" posts - Contributors: establish "shadow team" mentorship programs for future project leadership - Sponsors: develop multi-faceted sponsorship packages beyond monetary support #### WordPress - Community: adapt regional conference sustainability strategies for WordCamp organization - Training: develop conference organizer training materials based on PyCon AU practices - Marketing: promote early ticket purchases to reduce organizer financial stress ## 🧪 Hypotheses - Regional conferences with 18-month planning cycles have lower organizer burnout rates than those with 6-9 month cycles - Transparent conference operations through public documentation increases future volunteer recruitment by 30% - Strong local meetup communities correlate with higher regional conference attendance and engagement - Early ticket purchase campaigns reduce conference organizer stress and improve event financial sustainability ### 📊 Methodology - Survey organizers across regional Python conferences comparing planning cycle lengths with burnout indicators - A/B test transparent vs private conference planning processes measuring volunteer pipeline development - Analyze correlation between meetup frequency/attendance and regional conference success metrics ### ❓ Questions - How do regional conferences balance local focus with global open source project needs? - What financial models enable sustainable regional conference operations without central organizational support? - How can organizer knowledge transfer be systematized to prevent institutional memory loss? ### 🔮 Future Research - Comparative analysis of regional conference sustainability models across different programming language communities - Economic impact studies of regional conferences on local tech ecosystems - Development of standardized metrics for measuring conference community impact ### 💡 Implications - Practice: Conference organizers should implement extended planning cycles and transparent documentation practices - Policy: Regional conference independence from central organizations may improve local community resilience - Education: Academic track integration provides career development opportunities and funding access pathways - Funding: Diversified revenue models reduce dependence on single funding sources and improve sustainability ### 🧠 Learning Styles Assessment Reading level estimate: 12th Grade #### 👀 Visual learners - Present: Conference organization flowcharts, budget breakdowns, geographic coverage maps - Improve: Timeline visualizations of 18-month planning cycles, sponsor relationship diagrams #### 🔊 Aural learners - Present: Podcast format provides excellent audio learning experience - Improve: Conference organizer interview series, meetup audio recordings #### 🗣️ Verbal learners - Present: Extensive vocabulary around conference organization, community building terminology - Improve: Glossary of conference management terms, analogies for complex organizational concepts #### 🧩 Kinesthetic learners - Present: Practical volunteer opportunities, hands-on conference organization experience - Improve: Conference planning simulation exercises, shadow team participation guides #### 🧠 Logical learners - Present: Clear cause-and-effect relationships between planning decisions and outcomes - Improve: Decision trees for venue selection, budget scenario modeling tools #### 🧑‍🤝‍🧑 Social learners - Present: Community-focused approach, networking opportunities, collaborative planning - Improve: Organizer mentorship programs, peer learning circles #### 🧘‍♀️ Solitary learners - Present: Independent volunteer roles, self-directed learning opportunities - Improve: Solo conference planning checklists, individual reflection prompts #### 🌿 Naturalistic learners - Present: Ecosystem thinking about conference communities, organic networking approaches - Improve: Community lifecycle analysis, sustainable event practices ### 📊 Accessibility Assessment #### Screen reader semantics - Present: Clear podcast structure with topic transitions, speaker identification - Improve: Detailed show notes with timestamps, transcript availability #### Keyboard navigation - Present: Standard podcast player controls - Improve: Keyboard shortcuts for timestamp navigation, chapter markers #### Contrast and readability - Present: Audio-only format eliminates visual accessibility barriers - Improve: High-contrast transcript formatting, clear heading hierarchy #### Text resizing and reflow - Present: Show notes accommodate text scaling - Improve: Responsive transcript layouts, mobile-friendly formatting #### Media and captions - Present: Full transcript provided in source material - Improve: Professional transcript formatting, searchable text #### Forms and interactions - Present: Standard podcast subscription interfaces - Improve: Accessible feedback forms, clear submission processes ### 🌍 DEIB Assessment #### Cultural breadth - Present: Australian and New Zealand perspectives on global Python community - Improve: Additional regional conference examples, multi-cultural organizing approaches #### Inclusive language - Present: Welcoming conference culture, first-time speaker encouragement - Improve: Explicit discussion of accessibility accommodations, diverse speaker recruitment #### Neurodiversity support - Present: Structured conversation format, clear topic boundaries - Improve: Content warnings for stress-related topics, processing time considerations #### Representation - Present: Regional voice in global Python community, volunteer leadership paths - Improve: Diverse organizer perspectives, inclusive pricing discussions #### Psychological safety - Present: Supportive community building approach, anti-burnout focus - Improve: Explicit discussion of conference code of conduct, safety measures ### ✅ Logical Validity #### Strong reasoning - Deductive strength: Clear logical progression from community needs to conference solutions - Inductive strength: Generalizes from PyCon AU experience to broader regional conference principles - Causal reasoning: Establishes clear cause-effect relationships between planning practices and outcomes - Analogical strength: Effective comparisons between conference organization and community building #### Fallacies - Appeal to tradition: Some emphasis on "how we've always done things" without questioning effectiveness - False dilemma: Occasional presentation of binary choices (local vs global) when spectrum exists #### Tone of voice - Overall tone: Collaborative, experienced, pragmatic with occasional technical jargon but generally accessible ### 🛡️ DARVO Analysis - Deny: No denials or defensive patterns observed - Attack: No attacks on critics or alternative approaches - Reverse victim/offender: No victim/offender reversals present - Emotional cues and rhetoric: Positive, collaborative tone throughout with genuine enthusiasm for community building ## 🎯 Conclusion Regional conferences like PyCon AU represent essential infrastructure for sustainable open source communities, addressing geographic and cultural barriers that centralized events cannot overcome. The key insight is that sustainability requires systematic approaches to prevent organizer burnout through extended planning cycles, transparent operations, and structured leadership development. Practitioners should implement 18-month planning cycles, document decision-making processes publicly, and develop formal mentorship programs for future organizers. The broader implication is that healthy open source ecosystems depend on distributed community infrastructure that --- ## Full Transcript [00:10] Hello and welcome to Sustain, the [00:12] podcast where we talk about sustaining [00:13] open source for the long haul. Who are [00:15] we? Where did we come from? Where are we [00:17] going? How do I install different [00:18] versions of Python on this computer? I [00:20] never understand. Really excited to talk [00:23] to our guest today. Before I introduce [00:24] him, want to make sure you know who I [00:26] am. I'm Richard Littower. I'm your host. [00:28] And I'm joined today by Jack Skinner. [00:31] Jack is calling in from his office in [00:34] Sydney, which is pretty dope because we [00:36] are both down here on the bottom of the [00:38] world in the antipities. As you may [00:40] know, I moved to New Zealand a year and [00:42] a half ago, where I become pretty [00:43] involved in the Python community. And [00:44] that's where I met Jack. Jack is one of [00:47] the organizers for Pyon AU, which is the [00:52] main conference happening in Australia [00:55] every year, which is really exciting. [00:56] And in this episode, we're going to talk [00:58] about regional conferences, why they're [01:01] important for the sustainability of open [01:02] source, why you should attend them if [01:04] you can, sponsor them if you can, and [01:06] what they're all about. So, I'm pretty [01:08] excited to get into that with Jack. [01:10] Hello, Jack. How are you doing today? [01:12] >> I'm doing well. I'm really excited to be [01:14] here and tell you a little bit about [01:15] what goes on behind the scenes at a [01:17] conference and how we think about [01:18] sustainability. It was a really good [01:20] overlap when we started talking. Oh, we [01:22] better record this. Yeah, bit of a [01:25] backstory there. I got involved with [01:27] Pyon AU because I realized they didn't [01:29] have an academic track and I thought [01:31] it'd be really fun to have a proceedings [01:32] like we had for Kiwi Pyon last year. [01:34] Kiwi Pyon is the New Zealand pre-minent [01:37] conference of Python stuff. And we were [01:39] talking last night about ways to make [01:41] sure academics knew about it. I'm like, [01:42] well, I have this podcast on open source [01:44] sustainability, which is how we're here [01:46] together. Jack, before we get into all [01:48] of that, tell us a bit about who you [01:51] are. Besides the person with the purple [01:52] or rainbow hair, what is it you do? [01:55] How'd you end up in Python world? What's [01:56] going on? [01:57] >> Yeah, so I have a uh I guess you could [01:59] say a classical engineering training as [02:02] a software engineer and have come up [02:03] through that sort of pathway in my [02:05] career. Most recently though, I'm a [02:07] freelance consultant, a fractional CTO. [02:10] I parachute into interesting and [02:12] challenging projects and programs and [02:15] environments as a part-time consultant. [02:17] and I help teams build software better. [02:22] And part of that career I think that [02:23] I've been building has constantly had a [02:26] toe in the water around open-source, [02:29] open tech and tech events in general, [02:32] especially conferences, but also [02:35] meetups, hackathons, that kind of [02:37] ecosystem of bringing people together [02:40] around technology. And for all of my [02:43] attempts to stop organizing events, I [02:45] always get pulled back in somehow. [02:48] >> Tell me about your first Python [02:50] Australia experience. Was it a [02:52] hackathon? Was it a meetup? How many [02:54] years ago was it? [02:55] >> Well, so I think Python was the first [02:59] programming language I learned way back [03:01] in high school. I won't mention the [03:02] year, but a while back. I had a very [03:04] supportive high school teacher and he [03:06] taught Python at the after school [03:09] programming club. And so it was fast [03:11] forward quite a few years that I hadn't [03:13] actually been an engineer employed to [03:15] write Python but my social circle had [03:19] been attending Pyon AU and so it was [03:21] purely through friends that I sort of [03:23] got recommended hey you should come to a [03:25] Pyon AU. That was probably 2016 [03:28] I want to say in Melbourne and then I [03:31] submitted a talk the following year and [03:34] in 2017 my friend Katie said hey do you [03:37] want to get involved next year? I said, [03:39] "Yeah, I'll give you a hand. That sounds [03:40] fun." And little did I know, I'd [03:42] accidentally been volunttoled to get [03:43] very much involved in the core [03:45] organizing of a Pyon, and I've struggled [03:47] to escape since. [03:49] >> Was this Katie Mclofflin of Google? [03:52] >> Yes, Katie McLolin at currently at [03:54] Google and they were the conference [03:56] director in 2018 and 19. [04:00] >> Incredibly welcoming, awesome person, [04:02] does a lot of fun work with Amanda [04:03] Caceri who is also a co-host on this [04:05] podcast. We organized this on such a [04:07] short window that I'm not even sure they [04:09] noticed we were going to have this [04:10] conversation, but uh best of luck to [04:12] them wherever they are in the world. [04:15] Tell me about Pyon AU. What did it look [04:18] like in the past? What does it look like [04:20] since co [04:22] >> Ooh, that's a big question. So, what is [04:25] Python AU? It is the national conference [04:28] for people who use Python in Australia. [04:30] And we use a really broad term because [04:32] Python is a very broadly adopted [04:36] programming language. Yes, it's used in [04:38] your application development. Yes, it's [04:40] used in your DevOps and your automation. [04:43] It's used, as we know, extensively in [04:45] data science and AI and machine [04:47] learning. And fun fact is that it's also [04:51] part of the national curriculum in [04:52] Australia. And so we have high school [04:54] teachers teaching high school students [04:57] Python. [04:58] >> Cool. [04:59] >> Yeah. And so we have to talk about the [05:02] Pycon audience in a very broad term [05:05] because we are a very welcoming and [05:08] all-encompassing conference. And so who [05:10] is it for? It's for everyone. We even [05:12] say that we don't expect you to have [05:14] Python on your slides as a presenter, as [05:17] long as the message that you're sharing, [05:18] as long as the story you're telling, the [05:21] skills that you're teaching, as long as [05:22] those are relevant to people who use [05:24] Python, your story has a place at our [05:27] conference. Now you asked me an [05:29] interesting question there sort of [05:30] leading into how is it post lockdowns [05:33] and I think in some ways it's exactly [05:36] the same. We have a lot of the same [05:38] ethos and the same culture, many of the [05:41] same processes behind the scenes, but I [05:44] think also we've had to adapt to very [05:47] different economic environments, very [05:50] different operating environments in [05:52] terms of health and safety and the [05:54] expectations of our attendees and our [05:56] sponsors and everyone in between has [06:00] shifted in that postlockdown era. And so [06:03] while I think the heart of the [06:04] conference is very much the same, we're [06:07] operating it in a very different world. [06:09] And I think we're starting to see that [06:11] over the last few years with how we [06:12] engage with sponsors, what the attendee [06:15] experience is like where we run the [06:17] conference. Even we've had to be [06:18] thinking about [06:20] >> Python is part of a wider ecosystem [06:22] that's not limited to Australia. Python [06:24] itself was invented by I believe a Dutch [06:26] man. I don't want to say Belgian, but [06:29] from that part of the world, from the [06:31] Netherlands region. And the PSF is, of [06:35] course, a 501c3 based in the US. Ed is [06:38] currently Deb Nicholson, who we've had [06:39] in this podcast. Hi, Deb, you're great. [06:42] And they run an annual conference every [06:44] year. It's been in Pittsburgh for the [06:46] past few years, I think, because they [06:47] got locked into a vendor where they had [06:49] to keep going to the same place. And [06:51] this has been very difficult for them. [06:53] Partially because of COVID and people [06:55] being less likely to travel and [06:57] partially because of the dumpster fire [06:59] that is currently happening in America. [07:02] Jack, why would you have a Python [07:03] conference in Australia and steal money [07:06] from the PSF when they could really all [07:08] be going to that conference? [07:10] >> So many loaded comments in that [07:12] question. Where do we start? So the PSF [07:14] is in many ways the custodian of Python [07:18] and Pyons. I describe it as the [07:20] custodian because from a legal sense [07:23] they defend the trademark and abuses of [07:26] that name and brand. [07:28] They are also very structurally [07:31] us-centric legally speaking. But [07:34] communities [07:35] like those in Australia are on the [07:38] opposite side of the world. Right? For [07:40] every community call or office hours [07:43] that runs, most Aussies are probably [07:45] asleep. And so our local communities are [07:48] really important to us to grow and [07:49] maintain around Australia. And Pyon AU [07:53] is one of many, many, many regional [07:56] conferences that run under the Pyon [07:59] trademark and brand, but with a local [08:01] flavor, a local audience, local [08:04] sponsors, local speakers. We think local [08:07] and we act local very much so. Now the [08:10] funding thing is really interesting [08:11] because anyone that's been in around the [08:13] Python space over the last 6 12 months [08:16] will have seen some of the economic [08:18] challenges that the PSF has been facing [08:20] in terms of community demands on their [08:22] grants programs, corporate funding and [08:25] how do they get money into the PSF and [08:28] you sort of hinted at some of the [08:30] long-term financial commitments that [08:31] conferences are required to make [08:33] contracts, venue deposits long ahead of [08:37] being able to guarantee things like [08:38] attendance or the economic environment [08:40] that will allow sponsors to cough up [08:41] larger buckets of money. And so there is [08:45] no financial support from the PSF to [08:48] regional conferences like Pyon AU. [08:51] There's no money to be traded so to [08:54] speak at this point in time. So these [08:57] local conferences like Pyon AU are 100% [09:00] independent in that way from a financial [09:03] perspective. [09:04] >> It was a loaded question. It was on [09:06] purpose. It's good to have a conference [09:08] down here and it's good to be able to [09:10] have the local community be able to go. [09:12] Now, when you say local, in the case of [09:15] Australia, and keep in mind, Australia [09:16] is a continent. So, 25 million people [09:20] plus the 4 million people in the East [09:22] Islands of New Zealand. [09:24] What's different about Australian and [09:27] New Zealand Python users? [09:30] >> You know, at their heart, I'm not sure [09:31] there is a big difference. I think we [09:33] share a sense of distance from the [09:36] world. We share a sense of valuing local [09:40] community and a sense of camaraderie [09:42] amongst local user groups and meetups [09:44] and community gatherings. From a [09:47] conference perspective, we have to think [09:49] very carefully about where the majority [09:51] of our attendees are. The costs of [09:53] traveling to a conference. I think [09:56] domestically when I look at our friends [09:58] in New Zealand, the domestic cost of [10:00] popping into a major city is a lot [10:03] cheaper than say our friends in Perth [10:05] and across Western Australia having to [10:07] fly to the east coast for a conference. [10:09] And those considerations [10:12] work in reverse. If we run a conference [10:14] on the west coast of Australia, what are [10:16] the costs that the east coasters have to [10:18] foot in order to travel and participate [10:20] in that conference? And so even just [10:22] things like which city do we run a [10:24] conference in took us 6 months to [10:27] determine for this year's conference. [10:29] >> That is a very long time. You didn't [10:31] just want to put it in Alice Springs and [10:32] just call it a day right in the middle. [10:35] >> Look, calling distance on averages is [10:38] certainly a fun destination to get to [10:40] for Alice, but I'm not sure that there [10:42] are as many accommodation options as [10:45] many concurrent conference rooms. like [10:48] the logistics of a conference the size [10:50] of a pyon are are surprisingly complex [10:52] and intertwined. [10:54] >> Tell me about the size of the conference [10:56] this year. [10:57] >> So I've got some big hairy audacious [10:59] goals of attendance and getting us back [11:01] to our strength in 2018 and 2019. And so [11:04] we're looking at 5 to 600 attendees is [11:07] my target number. And that's sort of on [11:09] par with previous years plus a little [11:12] bit of growth. And I'm hoping that [11:13] growth comes from a long-term sustained [11:17] campaign of awareness, engagement, [11:20] local support, and other programs to [11:23] help make it more financially viable for [11:25] people to attend. And also just I guess [11:28] a general acknowledgement that our [11:30] industry whilst navigating a bunch of [11:33] change and turmoil right now is also [11:36] broadly speaking on the up from lockdown [11:41] eras and conferences are slowly getting [11:43] back to their strength. [11:46] >> One of the ways that you're hoping to [11:47] bring on more people is by having [11:48] independent tracks at this conference. [11:50] So it's not a single room, single track [11:52] conference and you're also having I [11:54] believe workshops. [11:56] This is pretty normal for large [11:57] conferences and so we don't have to go [11:59] into all the different types of tracks [12:00] or so on but there's cyber security [12:02] research software engineering etc. Tell [12:04] me about whether sponsors actually tend [12:07] to sponsor more when there are tracks. [12:11] Do you have any sponsored tracks? [12:13] >> We certainly offer it. Look, sponsorship [12:15] is a really interesting conversation. We [12:17] could probably do a whole podcast [12:19] discussion just about the economics and [12:22] the sales conversations that we have [12:24] around sponsorships. To walk that back a [12:27] second though, I think one of the things [12:28] that we were thinking about in the very [12:29] early days of planning the conference is [12:33] what are the new ideas we need to bring [12:34] into the conference and what are the old [12:36] ideas that we need to sustain a [12:38] conference like a Pyon AU. after what 15 [12:40] 16 years of running. There are things [12:43] that we did in the first year that [12:45] probably even haven't passed on as [12:47] wisdom to conference directors such as [12:49] myself. And so each year builds on the [12:51] strength of previous years, but also has [12:53] to respond to what our audience wants, [12:56] what the industry wants, yes, what our [12:57] sponsors want as well. So not to get [13:00] into the weeds of the tracks, but we've [13:02] doubled the number of specialist tracks [13:04] this year. And that's in part to make [13:05] sure that we are representing new [13:07] audiences, new ideas, growing [13:10] industries, and that brings with it [13:13] hopefully commercial interest from [13:15] sponsors who are part of those growing [13:18] industries to be actively involved in [13:21] the peak conference in Australia. [13:25] And that can mean a lot of different [13:26] things. You know, we talk to companies, [13:28] yes, about sponsorship, but that means a [13:30] combination of things. It can mean [13:32] monetary sponsorship. Please give us a [13:34] bag of money. Hiring a big venue costs [13:36] us lots of cash. It can mean showing up [13:39] as part of our exhibition. So, not all [13:41] of our sponsors actually attend the [13:42] conference, but those that do, we work [13:45] with them to create a memorable [13:46] experience for our attendees. It's not [13:48] just about selling a product. It's about [13:51] showcasing how your organization is part [13:54] of the Python ecosystem around [13:56] Australia. [13:57] It can also be about sending teams of [14:00] employees, right? the types of [14:03] commercial relationships we have with [14:04] not just sponsors but with companies if [14:06] you will with private sector means [14:09] getting you know large group orders of [14:11] attendees to come and participate in [14:13] that industry event. So the sort of [14:15] commercial angles are multi-layered if [14:18] you will and it's very rare that we talk [14:20] to a company and they just want one [14:22] thing. There's usually a package of [14:24] overlapping objectives that they've got. [14:26] >> If you're a sponsor you can just ignore [14:28] the next two minutes. Go make yourself a [14:29] cup of coffee. [14:31] Jack, I'm also a community organizer. [14:34] It's really difficult to figure out how [14:36] to get metrics on whether people learn [14:38] anything or grow or make connections at [14:41] a conference. As an organizer, you often [14:43] try to have a good party, but you know, [14:45] if someone swaps numbers on the other [14:46] side of the room, you don't know and you [14:48] don't know if that's going to lead to [14:49] anything productive. You just know that [14:50] people tend to like the vibe and they [14:52] say, "Hey, this was pretty cool." Is [14:54] there any step you're taking to ensure [14:56] that you're building a sustainable [14:58] community through the conference? Is [15:00] good vibes enough? What else are you [15:02] doing to get signals back? [15:04] >> So, we started planning this conference, [15:07] I want to say about 18 months ago and [15:11] we've still got five odd months left in [15:14] our planning cycle. And 18 months ago, [15:16] we sat down and said, "Look, running the [15:19] national conference with a 6 to9 month [15:22] planning cycle is not sustainable. [15:25] Triggering burnout. There are people [15:27] that have done it for many years and are [15:29] starting to show signs of not wanting to [15:31] get back involved again in future years. [15:33] So we started the 2026 conference [15:36] planning late 2024 [15:39] and one of the conversations we had [15:41] there was around the importance of [15:43] having local longunning [15:48] active and successful local communities [15:52] as groundwork in some ways you might say [15:55] as pipeline into the conference. So we [15:59] did a lot of research and made sure that [16:01] we knew who was organizing Meetup groups [16:04] and user groups around the country. [16:07] There's been lots of sort of parallel [16:08] concerted efforts by myself and my [16:10] co-directors and friends of the [16:12] conference in getting those local [16:13] communities back to strength. And in the [16:16] last 18 months, we've seen the Sydney [16:18] Python community start meeting again. [16:21] And I'm grateful for several of my [16:24] co-organizers in Sydney who run that [16:27] local user group. We've seen not two [16:30] weeks ago, the Brisbane Python community [16:32] is now starting to meet again and [16:34] they've got a workshop planned in 3 [16:36] weeks where I'm going to fly up and help [16:37] support them and run a workshop for [16:39] them. And so the sort of precursor was [16:43] we have to have local monthlyish [16:46] gatherings where people are active and [16:49] engaged and curious and meeting [16:51] exchanging numbers connecting on [16:53] LinkedIn before we get to hey come along [16:56] to this conference. Once we're at the [16:59] conference then we're constantly [17:01] thinking about ways of connecting [17:03] people. Now, I don't have anything to [17:05] announce just yet on a podcast, but we [17:09] are working actively to find [17:10] opportunities for meals, for coffee, for [17:13] social interaction, for networking, and [17:16] not cheesy, tacky, speed networking type [17:20] activities, but honest, authentic, [17:23] organic opportunities to connect. [17:27] And I'm really keen for some of what is [17:29] bubbling away in the background that [17:30] we'll hopefully get to announce maybe [17:32] next month. We'll see. [17:34] >> Does that mean that someone is currently [17:36] planning the 2027 conference while we [17:38] speak? [17:39] >> So, sadly, not yet. [17:41] >> Okay. [17:42] >> The trouble that Pyonu has had and I [17:44] think many regional conferences and even [17:46] local communities and user groups have [17:49] is what we think about as the pipeline [17:51] of future directors. Who's going to do [17:53] this in the future? One of the programs [17:56] or projects that I'm working on at the [17:58] moment is establishing what I'm [18:00] affectionately calling the shadow team. [18:02] We have conversations with people that [18:04] go, "Yeah, I'd like to get more [18:05] involved. What does it entail?" And you [18:08] kind of go, "Well, it's not a real job [18:10] description for it. There's not really a [18:12] checklist of things I can do." Sometimes [18:14] you've got to generate your own work to [18:16] run a conference. So we figured maybe [18:18] the best way is to show people how we [18:21] ran the conference, the problems we [18:22] encountered, the challenges we faced, [18:25] the hurdles along the way, and how we [18:28] approached those [18:30] particular challenges over the next 6 [18:33] months. So that people can say, "Hey, [18:35] yeah, I'm interested in a future year, [18:37] but I've got no idea what I'm committing [18:38] to." But they can join in our meetings [18:41] as a silent participant and watch how we [18:43] run things. they can [18:45] >> cool [18:45] >> almost sort of ride alongside in [18:47] particular roles and learn how [18:49] particular parts of the conference run [18:51] and that to me is a multi-year [18:54] investment. You know, we really want to [18:56] bring more people into the organizing [18:57] room, but things like commercial [19:00] conversations with sponsors, things like [19:02] contract negotiation with venues. These [19:04] are things that are typically done [19:05] behind closed doors and really difficult [19:07] to share publicly. So the second thing [19:09] that I'm working on and this is one of [19:11] my pet projects as the conference [19:12] director is to write more openly long [19:16] for essays to share a little bit more [19:18] about behind the scenes. I think the [19:21] openness in open source is really [19:23] important and a lot of what goes on at [19:25] conferences and events in open source [19:27] tends to be a little bit more private [19:30] and behind closed doors. So, there's a [19:33] category on our news and announcement [19:35] section on the website called from the [19:36] director's desk. And occasionally, every [19:38] month or two, I try and write a long [19:40] form expose, if you will, to help [19:43] explain, look, we didn't just pick a [19:45] venue in Brisbane and go, "Yeah, that'll [19:46] do." We had a planning cycle. We [19:49] evaluated tens of venues. We traveled, [19:52] negotiated, considered, budgeted. I [19:55] think at one point we had 18 variations [19:57] of our budget to figure out which venues [19:59] were going to be most economical at [20:01] different thresholds of attendance. We [20:03] wanted to find the right place for a [20:05] Pyon AU, not just say I'll run it at the [20:08] place down the road from me. And that [20:10] commitment in openness hopefully brings [20:13] more people in to go, yeah, that's [20:15] something I care about. That's something [20:16] I'd like to do in the future. And you've [20:19] outlaid how you go about that from a [20:21] mindset and a thinking perspective. [20:24] This all sounds like a lot of work for [20:26] the community, which is absolutely [20:27] great, but that work is not going into [20:30] maintaining open- source Python [20:32] projects. It's not going into [20:35] closed source, really fun Python [20:37] hacking. [20:39] The tension between the amount of [20:40] community work and the amount of actual [20:42] time spent with the language that you're [20:44] doing it for was always hard for me as [20:46] an organizer. And I'm just wondering if [20:47] you sit with that as well. [20:49] >> Yeah. So, fun fact, I have a huge amount [20:53] of imposter syndrome as a conference [20:55] director because I'm not employed. My [20:57] clients don't pay me to write Python. [21:01] It's the hobby language that I've always [21:03] reached for. It's the tool in my tool [21:05] belt. I'm never accountable for a task [21:07] or a feature using the language. And I [21:10] rely on my peers, my volunteer team, and [21:13] my peers in the industry to advise me [21:15] on, hey, what's the technical thing I [21:17] need to be paying attention to here? My [21:20] focus over many years in my career and [21:23] as a volunteer leader at Pyon AU is very [21:27] much about the sociotechnical [21:28] perspective, the community perspective, [21:30] the bringing the people together [21:32] perspective. There's a joke comment that [21:35] I think did the round several years ago [21:37] and that conferences are just co-working [21:39] spaces with interruptions called talks [21:41] and while we have some phenomenal [21:43] speakers and some amazing sessions, that [21:46] joke in some sense is a reality. I think [21:48] about a conference as a way to bring [21:50] people together, to share ideas, to [21:53] challenge one another, to present new [21:55] and interesting ways of working, new [21:57] projects, share skills, grow our [22:01] network. Thankfully, there's sort of a [22:04] circle of life. I've met clients and [22:06] business relationships through the [22:07] conference as well, which sort of helps [22:09] me justify the time investment. But for [22:12] me, the conference is very much [22:14] community first and that's why I care [22:16] about making it successful and [22:17] sustainable. Not just saying, "Oh, yeah, [22:20] cool. Let's run a conference." No, that [22:22] to me is very core to what I'm trying to [22:24] build as a conference director. [22:26] >> I'm going to skip the how are you [22:28] dealing with AI question because [22:29] obviously you're going to try to figure [22:31] out, you know, whether the talks are [22:32] actually good for your audience and [22:33] whether it uses AR or not. That's going [22:34] to be a thing. So, we can just skip that [22:35] because whatever. One of the interesting [22:38] things about Australia is that [22:41] it's far away from Europe, but it has a [22:45] significant population size and as such [22:48] it also has to grapple with a lot of the [22:50] things that other countries have to deal [22:52] with, including things like policy [22:54] around digital infrastructure, things [22:57] like digital rights and how they [22:59] interact with indigenous rights and [23:02] things like education systems. you have [23:04] many amazing universities in Australia [23:07] and how do they interact with the local [23:08] communities whereas there are some [23:09] smaller countries that don't have to [23:11] interface in the same way or there [23:12] countries the size of the US or Germany [23:15] where you can have a Python conference [23:16] and it doesn't have to interact with [23:17] universities because it's big enough [23:19] that enough people will come tell me [23:21] whether Pyon AU has any direct ties to [23:25] government policy to government offices [23:28] or to the larger militaryindustrial [23:31] mining complex of Australia [23:34] Broadly speaking, no. We're very much [23:36] independent of any of those dependencies [23:40] or affiliations. And I think that gives [23:43] us a sense of [23:45] strength as an independent team of [23:48] volunteers where we're not beholdened to [23:51] a particular [23:53] policy mandate, for example, or a [23:55] particular [23:57] ethos in the sort of political [23:59] environment. I think that also presents [24:01] some challenges though. We're fighting [24:03] an uphill battle every year with [24:06] different policies, different budgets, [24:07] different hype cycles to sort of point [24:11] at the AI in the corner. And so, for [24:14] example, we've had to work very [24:16] tactfully with some sponsors in the past [24:19] about how we navigate the language, how [24:22] we navigate the marketing of our [24:24] financial assistance program, which can [24:27] help cover costs for some attendees to [24:29] attend the conference. Especially last [24:32] year, we certainly couldn't market that [24:33] to US-based sponsors to say fund our DEI [24:36] program. I wouldn't say that we are [24:40] sheltered from global politics, global [24:43] economics, any of that. And in fact, [24:45] some of our biggest challenges have been [24:47] ripple effects from [24:49] larger political movements or policy [24:52] movements around the world. [24:53] >> That's really interesting. One of the [24:55] reasons I asked that question is because [24:56] I was at FOSM this year in February in [24:59] Brussels, which is the world's largest [25:00] open source conference, around 7,000 [25:02] people and its own endemic version of [25:05] the flu. And like many of the talks were [25:08] talking about the cyber resiliency act [25:10] or about EU policy towards AI and open [25:13] source. Many of the talks were talking [25:14] about the sovereign tech fund. [25:18] >> Yes, [25:18] >> I think it's still fund. Yeah. And so [25:21] it's always sort of interesting to [25:22] figure out how different communities [25:24] respond to the existential risks or the [25:28] dynamics that happen in the world [25:30] outside them. And I don't know enough [25:32] about PON AU to know about the things. I [25:34] haven't been to your conference yet. I [25:36] think I may have attended a few talks. I [25:37] know some people from there. But it's an [25:38] interesting question to ask because it [25:40] affects the sustainability of your [25:42] long-term conference, right? Because you [25:43] don't live in a vacuum. [25:45] >> Yeah. Exactly. And I think, you know, [25:47] reflecting back on a lot of the hallway [25:48] conversations we have at the conference. [25:50] Our attendees are deeply aware of the [25:55] global political landscape policy [25:57] implications coming out of both North [26:00] America and across Europe. [26:02] things like age verification laws and [26:06] policies actively discussed amongst our [26:09] attendees, but they're not directly [26:12] affecting, for example, our program. [26:14] There's no significant impact in that [26:18] way. But one of the things I'm most [26:20] proud of with Pyonu and the culture [26:22] we've built up over years is we're not [26:25] just a go to an event, see some talks [26:27] kind of community. We're a reasonably [26:30] aware, astute, considered and kind [26:34] community as well. We see a lot of those [26:36] things happening overseas and we almost [26:38] start the conversation early at a Pyon. [26:40] You know, what does that mean for us? [26:42] >> I love that and it's one of the best [26:44] responses to global political issues, [26:46] which is, you know, think globally but [26:47] act locally. Work with your friends, [26:49] figure out how you work together, work [26:51] with your enemies who live down the [26:52] road, figure out how you can work [26:53] together, you know, etc., etc. That's [26:55] all really great. Jack, we're running up [26:57] on time and I want to be cognizant of [26:59] our listeners who are probably almost at [27:00] their place of work in their favorite [27:02] public transport means vehicles. Tell me [27:05] about the CFP. If I wanted to submit a [27:08] talk, do I have to be present? Can I [27:10] give the talk remotely or what's going [27:12] on? When's it open till, etc., etc. [27:14] >> All righty. So, yes, we have an open [27:16] call for proposals. We want all of your [27:19] ideas submitted to the conference. We've [27:20] got six amazing specialist tracks, all [27:23] of whom are looking for your fun and [27:26] interesting talk. I would also highlight [27:29] that we are a very welcoming conference. [27:31] We actively encourage first-time [27:33] speakers, junior and career speakers as [27:36] well as seasoned experts, industry [27:39] veterans. The whole career gamut is very [27:42] welcome on stage at a Pyon. [27:45] Take it a little bit serious. come to [27:47] one of our workshops, ask us questions, [27:48] reach out for mentoring. We've got [27:51] fairly high rate of submissions and a [27:53] very limited number of slots we can [27:55] fill. So, we do ask people put a little [27:57] bit of effort into their submission, but [27:59] all of our submissions are human [28:00] reviewed. We don't just plug them into [28:02] an AI and get it to rank it for us. We [28:04] care greatly that our audience and our [28:07] potential speakers have written their [28:08] abstracts, maybe inspired with some AI, [28:12] but written by hand and edited in their [28:14] own tone of voice. and we give them the [28:16] same respect as a review process. This [28:19] year we are encouraging as much as [28:21] possible for people to attend in person. [28:24] We have done the online conferences. [28:25] We've done some hybrid events in the [28:27] past. This year I would encourage [28:30] everyone to make plans to come to [28:31] Brisbane. Not just because we've got an [28:33] awesome conference, but because we've [28:35] got a great relationship with local [28:36] council who've got a lot of programs to [28:38] support having a great destination [28:40] conference in Brisbane. More on that [28:43] coming hopefully next month. So, we do [28:46] want everyone to present in person. [28:47] We're not planning on streaming it or [28:49] running a hybrid experience. We do get a [28:51] lot of questions about remote attendance [28:53] and NF stream talks. We've done that in [28:55] the past. At this point in time, we're [28:58] not making any commitments [29:00] primarily for budgetary reasons. You [29:02] know, streaming costs extra. It's [29:05] logistical and financial constraints. [29:07] And we're still 5 months out from the [29:09] conference. So, we're hoping that most [29:10] people can with this much notice make [29:13] plans to be in Brisbane. And then as we [29:15] approach probably about the 6 to 8 weeks [29:17] before PYON, we'll make some further [29:21] commercial decisions on if we can afford [29:22] to stream as well. The call for [29:24] proposals ends in a little over 2 and [29:27] 1/2 weeks on the 29th of March anywhere [29:29] on Earth. So that means the Aussies and [29:31] the Kiwis get about an extra day of our [29:33] deadline and those of our friends in say [29:37] the Americas, [29:38] it comes through to your 29th of March. [29:40] So you can put that in any calendar and [29:42] it works out. We'd love to hear [29:45] everyone's submissions. I often say that [29:48] the more submissions the better. It [29:49] makes our job really difficult to pull [29:52] together a program. But everyone [29:53] benefits because it means that the [29:55] resulting schedule, if we've done our [29:58] job right, the selection of which room [30:00] to go sit in and watch a talk is really [30:01] difficult for everyone because the bar [30:03] is so high and exciting. So help us make [30:06] the review process difficult and [30:08] everyone benefits. putting on a [30:10] different hat for a second. Last year I [30:12] was on the committee for Python New [30:14] Zealand and along with Debbie Ganisan [30:17] and Chelsea Finny, we ran the academic [30:19] track where we had proceedings coming [30:21] out of the conference. Only two [30:22] proceedings, but you know, they were [30:24] still good. This year, we're hoping to [30:25] do the same thing at Pyon AU. We're also [30:29] running Kiwi Pyon this year in Brisbane, [30:32] which is the West Island of Australia. [30:33] So, this is also Kiwi Pon basically. [30:36] again pointing to some of the burnout [30:38] and long-term issues that you mentioned [30:40] earlier. It's just easier for us not to [30:41] have it this year in New Zealand. But we [30:43] have an academic track which means if [30:45] you submit any abstracts and you ask for [30:47] it to be peer-reviewed, we will peer [30:49] review it and we will take those [30:50] abstracts which are accepted and submit [30:52] them as a proceedings later. The goal of [30:54] this is to make it easier for early [30:57] career researchers, academics, PhDs, [30:59] undergrads, anyone who wants to have a [31:02] conference line on their CV and a [31:05] published peer-reviewed abstract that [31:08] may make it easier for you to unlock [31:09] funding from your department to come and [31:12] see the conference as well as be an [31:13] academic there. So, we're really excited [31:15] about that track offering. Please do [31:17] submit if you have any ideas about fun [31:18] stuff. I will now take off my academic [31:21] track hat, but that should be really [31:23] great. Jack, do you want to help? [31:25] >> I'll also jump in if I could. I think [31:26] it's really important to highlight that [31:28] as part of those academic proceedings, [31:30] we're looking to publish both 30-inut [31:33] talks and also poster sessions. And so [31:36] there are hopefully very approachable [31:38] ways for firsttime conference [31:41] participants to submit and be part of [31:43] the proceedings without having to commit [31:45] to the extra effort it takes to pull [31:47] together a talk. And so, yes, we're [31:50] looking for a mix of formats, like you [31:52] say, for academic proceedings. It's [31:54] talks and posters. We're also looking [31:56] for workshops both from our sponsors and [31:58] from our community. We've got some [31:59] amazing submissions so far, and I can't [32:02] wait to see which ones that get selected [32:04] through the review process hopefully to [32:06] be announced in May. [32:08] >> Tell me about volunteering and buying [32:10] tickets. [32:11] >> All righty. So, we haven't opened our [32:12] call for volunteers just yet. That will [32:15] happen in the next couple of months. [32:16] Typically speaking, in the sort of two [32:18] to three months before the conference, [32:20] volunteering is an awesome way to be [32:22] involved in Pyon. We often have [32:24] firsttime attendees put their hand up to [32:27] volunteer for a free ticket and they [32:29] constantly tell us that they have a [32:31] phenomenal experience at the conference [32:32] and come back for several years. We [32:34] don't just ask volunteers to work all [32:37] day. We work with them to find the talks [32:40] they want to experience, to meet people [32:42] they they've wanted to meet. We try and [32:45] provide as much skill development for [32:47] our volunteers as well. And then we've [32:50] even got a dedicated role in the [32:52] volunteering team to run snacks around [32:54] to the other volunteers and make sure [32:55] that they themselves are sustained on [32:57] the day. And so we put a lot of care and [32:59] attention and Izzy, our volunteer [33:01] coordinator, does a phenomenal job at [33:02] that. So if volunteering is your forte, [33:07] definitely keep an eye out. Subscribe to [33:09] mailing list. We'll make lots of noise [33:10] when volunteering opens. But as hinted [33:13] to throughout the last sort of hour of [33:16] conversation, we are thinking very much [33:18] about the commercial sustainability of [33:20] PYON and a very large part of our budget [33:23] comes from attendees buying tickets. We [33:26] do have two different tiers of tickets. [33:28] People who are self-funded or for a [33:30] hobbyist here, can buy an enthusiast [33:32] ticket. And then people who attend in a [33:34] professional capacity, perhaps have [33:36] their employer pay for a ticket or their [33:39] circumstances mean that they can claim [33:41] it as a workrelated tax deduction for [33:43] professional education. We have a [33:45] professional delegate ticket. And so, [33:48] simply put, conferences cost a lot of [33:50] money and we're all volunteer. No one [33:52] takes a salary. Those ticket prices go [33:55] directly to funding the conference and [33:57] covering our costs. And so if you can [33:59] afford it, buy a ticket. It doesn't [34:01] matter which tier, buy a ticket. If you [34:04] can afford it, or perhaps your employer [34:06] pays you in US dollars, even consider [34:08] buying a contributor ticket. It comes [34:10] with a sparkly emoji on the page. These [34:14] small gestures from individuals to [34:15] contribute more financially means the [34:18] conference is more sustainable longterm. [34:21] And to be honest with you, it's a very [34:22] personal impact. I know multiple [34:24] previous conference directors who've had [34:26] significant amounts of stress because [34:28] looking at the budget up until the day [34:30] of the conference is a stressful thing. [34:31] And so if we see revenue from tickets [34:33] coming in at a steady pace because [34:36] people are buying tickets early, it [34:38] means we're less likely to burn out as [34:40] volunteers and are more likely to be [34:41] able to come back. And that buying habit [34:43] has changed over the last sort of 6 [34:45] years. People are buying tickets later [34:47] and closer to the conference. And I get [34:49] it. the economic environment we're in. [34:52] I've had to make that decision, too. But [34:54] if you are in a position, my biggest [34:56] call out is get involved early. Make [34:57] that commitment early. It means the [34:59] world to regional conference organizers. [35:02] Jack here is of course talking on behalf [35:04] of all regional conference organizers, [35:05] not just those who can't afford to go to [35:07] Australia. At the end of every podcast, [35:09] we have spotlight where we highlight [35:10] other people's projects or things that [35:12] we think are particularly great and that [35:14] we want to lean on. I was reminded this [35:17] morning about Simon Kirby and Andrew [35:20] Smith, two of my lecturers at the [35:22] University of Edinburgh, who first [35:23] introduced me to Python, unwittingly not [35:26] knowing that they were going to lead me [35:28] down this rabbit hole of open source [35:30] where I am today. They continue to be [35:33] academics. Simon Kirby had a really [35:35] interesting paper in Nature in the past [35:37] 6 months about whale song, which you [35:39] should totally go check out. And I just [35:41] want to say thank you to both of them [35:42] for introducing me to Python and [35:44] iterated learning models and agent-based [35:47] coding. That was just very, very fun [35:49] back when agents meant making little [35:51] people do stuff on a screen. So that was [35:53] really great. Thank you so much. Jack, [35:55] what is your spotlight today? I'm going [35:58] to be selfish and I'm going to talk [35:59] about two projects. I think of them as [36:02] companion projects. So I want to [36:04] highlight pre-talks and pre-ticks. These [36:06] are both Pythonbased open- source [36:09] projects that we use at Pyon to run our [36:13] conference. Now, we also pay the hosted [36:16] fees to have these run for us. We're in [36:20] the business of volunteering to run a [36:22] conference. I don't want to maintain a [36:24] server and have to do patching. So, we [36:25] use the hosted version as well. So [36:27] pre-talks is the software we use to [36:30] receive all the talk submissions and [36:32] then also run through our review [36:34] process, run our schedule, run our [36:36] acceptances out to speakers, sadly also [36:38] have to send our declines. that having a [36:41] custom tool that's open source and [36:43] written in Python is a a phenomenal [36:47] empowering tool for us as a conference [36:49] and b we're very happy to pay for that [36:51] tool cuz it reinvests into a business [36:54] that is invested in the longevity of [36:56] that open source project and then [36:58] pre-tick is the software we use for [37:00] ticket sales we're not just a three or [37:03] four ticket type conference I think [37:05] behind the scenes we've probably got [37:07] about 30 odd different ticket [37:09] configurations [37:10] variations, price points. We've just [37:13] sold out of blind bird tickets. We've [37:15] had tickets on sale for almost 6 months. [37:17] All of the complexity of our [37:19] registration, [37:20] our registration desk on site, things [37:22] like t-shirt distributions, all of that [37:25] complexity and logistics we run through [37:27] pretix. And it's a sort of phenomenal [37:31] pairing of Python written, Python [37:33] powered software that is open- source, [37:36] but also we're very happy paying for. [37:37] And so I just want to give the teams [37:39] behind Pre-Talks and Pretix a shout out. [37:42] Both feature-wise, I love their project [37:45] and support-wise. They're wicked. So [37:47] yeah, big shout out there. [37:49] >> Excellent. Excellent projects. We use [37:50] them as well for Kiwi Pyon. Highly, [37:53] highly suggest. Jack, thank you so much [37:55] for coming on this podcast. It's been [37:56] really, really good. Listeners, you can [37:58] find out more about Jack by going on [37:59] podcast.oss.org [38:01] and looking at the show notes where we [38:03] will have some of the links from today [38:04] as well as some teasers about what [38:06] happened during this episode that you [38:07] just listened to. You can also find out [38:09] the social media for Pyon AU so you can [38:12] go submit your CFPs or your PS because [38:15] they've been cfed. So do go do that [38:18] while you're on podcast as I say oss.org [38:21] or you can share that URL with other [38:24] people on social medias. You can share [38:26] it on LinkedIn, on Macedon, on BluKi, [38:29] where Sustain also is as well. So, feel [38:31] free to link us in those chats. You can [38:33] also share it in your local Slack groups [38:35] and your local regional groups. That'd [38:36] be really, really good. You can like [38:37] this podcast wherever podcasts are [38:39] bought and sold such as Apple, Spotify, [38:41] other horrible, horrible Doom things. If [38:43] you know a really good one that's like [38:45] open source, let me know so I can [38:46] interview them so we can host this on [38:48] their platform. You can join our [38:50] discourse on discourse.soss.org [38:52] to talk about this podcast or other [38:55] stuff about open source sustainability. [38:57] And you can of course email me and say, [38:59] "Richard, you're getting worse at doing [39:00] this like Medicaid thing at the very [39:02] end. Why don't you do it better at [39:04] richards.org [39:06] or podcasts.org [39:07] if you have any thoughts, complaints, [39:09] wishes, where to send flowers. That'd be [39:11] really, really great." And finally, when [39:14] you're buying your PYON AU ticket, if [39:16] you have an extra $5,000 in your pocket, [39:19] go to opencollective.com/sustainoss [39:21] and donate to this podcast. We have been [39:24] funded partially for the next year [39:27] through curious, the community for [39:28] university and research institutions, [39:29] open source program offices, which is [39:31] super exciting. I also help run that [39:33] community. If you ever want to talk [39:34] about it, I will have other guests on [39:36] this podcast who will, but thank you so [39:39] much to them. And we're still looking [39:40] for a co-sponsor for the other episodes. [39:44] And with that, finally, after all that [39:46] is done, Jack, thank you once more. [39:49] Super, super fun. Long live Pike on AU. [39:52] Do a great job. Looking forward to [39:53] hopefully being there. And thank you [39:55] again. [39:55] >> Thank you so much. It's been a blast, an [39:57] awesome conversation, and I can't wait [39:59] to see you and everyone in Brisbane in [40:01] August.  📄 **Full text:** ![[Full Document Contents/Articles/Episode 286 Jack Skinner of PyCon AU and Regional Confs|Episode 286: Jack Skinner of PyCon AU and Regional Confs, YouTube]] ## Highlights - important for the sustainability of open source, why you should attend them if you can, sponsor them if you can, and what they're all about. So, I'm pretty excited to get into that with Jack. Hello, Jack. How are you doing today? >> I'm doing well. I'm really excited to be here and tell you a little bit about what goes on behind the scenes at a conference and how we think about sustainability. It was a really good overlap when we started talking. Oh, we better record this. Yeah, bit of a backstory there. I got involved with Pyon AU because I realized they didn't have an academic track and I thought ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01kkvty0wawxtaadznfeb7djqp)) - Tags: 👻 ai highlighted - shifted in that postlockdown era. And so while I think the heart of the conference is very much the same, we're operating it in a very different world. And I think we're starting to see that over the last few years with how we engage with sponsors, what the attendee experience is like where we run the conference. Even we've had to be thinking about >> Python is part of a wider ecosystem that's not limited to Australia. Python itself was invented by I believe a Dutch man. I don't want to say Belgian, but from that part of the world, from the ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01kkvty0wy9cgm8w3t777z8hve)) - Tags: 👻 ai highlighted - what are the new ideas we need to bring into the conference and what are the old ideas that we need to sustain a conference like a Pyon AU. after what 15 16 years of running. There are things that we did in the first year that probably even haven't passed on as wisdom to conference directors such as myself. And so each year builds on the strength of previous years, but also has to respond to what our audience wants, what the industry wants, yes, what our sponsors want as well. So not to get ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01kkvty0y46n1nb4sgv5vgwfe5)) - Tags: 👻 ai highlighted - into the weeds of the tracks, but we've doubled the number of specialist tracks this year. And that's in part to make sure that we are representing new audiences, new ideas, growing industries, and that brings with it hopefully commercial interest from sponsors who are part of those growing industries to be actively involved in the peak conference in Australia. And that can mean a lot of different things. You know, we talk to companies, yes, about sponsorship, but that means a ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01kkvty0zw4mr3msqqkfs9s3yt)) - Tags: 👻 ai highlighted - combination of things. It can mean monetary sponsorship. Please give us a bag of money. Hiring a big venue costs us lots of cash. It can mean showing up as part of our exhibition. So, not all of our sponsors actually attend the conference, but those that do, we work with them to create a memorable experience for our attendees. It's not just about selling a product. It's about showcasing how your organization is part of the Python ecosystem around Australia. It can also be about sending teams of ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01kkvty11bqb02rqr0fhh33mqp)) - Tags: 👻 ai highlighted - weeks ago, the Brisbane Python community is now starting to meet again and they've got a workshop planned in 3 weeks where I'm going to fly up and help support them and run a workshop for them. And so the sort of precursor was we have to have local monthlyish gatherings where people are active and engaged and curious and meeting exchanging numbers connecting on LinkedIn before we get to hey come along to this conference. Once we're at the conference then we're constantly ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01kkvty131j5c7jd8yp56w0smd)) - Tags: 👻 ai highlighted - particular challenges over the next 6 months. So that people can say, "Hey, yeah, I'm interested in a future year, but I've got no idea what I'm committing to." But they can join in our meetings as a silent participant and watch how we run things. they can >> cool >> almost sort of ride alongside in particular roles and learn how particular parts of the conference run and that to me is a multi-year investment. You know, we really want to bring more people into the organizing room, but things like commercial ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01kkvty14xbsmvry98gfv5m8me)) - Tags: 👻 ai highlighted - Jack here is of course talking on behalf of all regional conference organizers, not just those who can't afford to go to Australia. At the end of every podcast, we have spotlight where we highlight other people's projects or things that we think are particularly great and that we want to lean on. I was reminded this morning about Simon Kirby and Andrew Smith, two of my lecturers at the University of Edinburgh, who first introduced me to Python, unwittingly not knowing that they were going to lead me down this rabbit hole of open source ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01kkvty18dq1fxwf6fx85hcv0a)) - Tags: 👻 ai highlighted