Future of Faith Faith in Chaotic Times - CourtneyR.dev's 2nd Brain

Future of Faith: Faith in Chaotic Times ![rw-book-cover](https://img.youtube.com/vi/Vva9u5EhfoM/maxresdefault.jpg) 🔗 **Source:** [Future of Faith: Faith in Chaotic Times](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vva9u5EhfoM) > [!note]+ Document Notes > tags: #faith #christianity #spiritual-community #grief #mental-health #ritual > author: Reverend Ellie Hutcherson > source: United Church of Christ > reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vva9u5EhfoM > date created: 2024-12-20 14:30 > > # 🏷️ Title: Future of Faith: Faith in Chaotic Times >  ## 🧰 Action Inbox - [H1] Build community ritual practices — addressing post-COVID isolation #spiritual-community - [H2] Create grief processing spaces — acknowledging collective trauma #mental-health - [H3] Develop interfaith dialogue — preparing for Christian nationalism's collapse #faith ## 🧭 Table of Contents - [[#📝 Summary]] - [[#📖 Main Content]] - [[#🗒️ Notes]] - [[#📚 References]] - [[#🗣️ Paraphrase]] - [[#📰 Newsletter]] - [[#✅ Action Items]] - [[#🧪 Hypotheses]] - [[#📊 Methodology]] - [[#❓ Questions]] - [[#🔮 Future Research]] - [[#💡 Implications]] - [[#🧠 Learning Styles Assessment]] - [[#📊 Accessibility Assessment]] - [[#🌍 DEIB Assessment]] - [[#✅ Logical Validity]] - [[#🛡️ DARVO Analysis]] - [[#🎯 Conclusion]] ### 🔗 References - [United Church of Christ Events](https://ucc.org/events) - [Learn WordPress](https://learn.wordpress.org/) ## 📝 Summary - UCC ministers discuss faith community needs in post-pandemic era - Why building authentic community matters for spiritual resilience - Key stakeholders include pastors, congregants, and interfaith partners - Risks include continued isolation and commodified faith expressions - Bottom line: Faith communities must prioritize present-moment connection and grief processing ## 📖 Main Content - Religious leaders emphasize community as the core need in digital age isolation - Seminary education provides foundation for responding to contemporary challenges - Ritual practices help process collective trauma and maintain spiritual grounding - Faith communities must resist greed's commodification of spiritual experience - Interfaith cooperation essential for addressing Christian nationalism ## 🗒️ Notes #### ⏱️ [00:00](https://youtu.be/Vva9u5EhfoM?t=0) — [H1] Opening blessing and introduction - Key idea: Sacred space created through virtual community gathering - Evidence: "Everything that I am, I am becoming is sacred and holy" #### ⏱️ [05:23](https://youtu.be/Vva9u5EhfoM?t=323) — [H2] Presenter introductions and accessibility - Key idea: Inclusive presentation practices model community values - Evidence: "I use they them pronouns and today am wearing black rimmed reading glasses" #### ⏱️ [10:45](https://youtu.be/Vva9u5EhfoM?t=645) — [H1] Personal calling stories shared - Key idea: Diverse paths lead to ministry through popular culture and persecution - Evidence: "Star Wars really dropped down for my spirituality" #### ⏱️ [18:30](https://youtu.be/Vva9u5EhfoM?t=1110) — [H2] Seminary education's role in future preparation - Key idea: Theological education equips ministers for unknown future challenges - Evidence: "We didn't even have the worldwide web yet. So things have really changed" #### ⏱️ [25:15](https://youtu.be/Vva9u5EhfoM?t=1515) — [H1] Community identified as greatest need - Key idea: Digital age creates unprecedented isolation requiring intentional connection - Evidence: "I believe in the digital age that we are in that we are very isolated" #### ⏱️ [32:00](https://youtu.be/Vva9u5EhfoM?t=1920) — [H2] COVID's psychological impact on faith communities - Key idea: Pandemic created lasting trauma requiring ritual processing - Evidence: "We don't really know the impacts quite yet psychologically on us from COVID" #### ⏱️ [38:45](https://youtu.be/Vva9u5EhfoM?t=2325) — [H1] Grief as universal companion requiring ritual - Key idea: Unprocessed loss prevents hopeful engagement with future - Evidence: "Having a relationship with grief and sorrow and recognizing that it's a companion" #### ⏱️ [44:20](https://youtu.be/Vva9u5EhfoM?t=2660) — [H3] Embodied practices reveal divine presence - Key idea: Christ recognized through shared bread, not teaching alone - Evidence: "Christ was only recognized in the embodied practice of sharing communion" #### ⏱️ [50:10](https://youtu.be/Vva9u5EhfoM?t=3010) — [H2] Greed's commodification of faith - Key idea: Consumer culture corrupts authentic spiritual formation - Evidence: "Greed has impacted everything. So, why would we think it wouldn't get to faith" #### ⏱️ [55:30](https://youtu.be/Vva9u5EhfoM?t=3330) — [H1] Living in present moment while preparing future - Key idea: Churches face rapid change requiring both immediate attention and long-term vision - Evidence: "Cycles of change are happening more and more quickly" #### ⏱️ [62:15](https://youtu.be/Vva9u5EhfoM?t=3735) — [H2] Interfaith collaboration as hope practice - Key idea: Finding light across religious traditions builds resilience - Evidence: "I try to find what the light is...where's the love in those particular religions" #### ⏱️ [68:00](https://youtu.be/Vva9u5EhfoM?t=4080) — [H1] Response to Christian nationalism's collapse - Key idea: Faith communities must offer compassionate space for healing fear-based wounds - Evidence: "What we have to offer is light because I believe that a lot of these things are rooted in fear" ## 📚 References - [United Church of Christ Digital Programming](https://ucc.org/events) - [Eden Theological Seminary](https://www.eden.edu/) - [The Wild Edge of Sorrow by Francis Weller](https://www.franciswallerauthor.com/the-wild-edge-of-sorrow/) ## 🗣️ Paraphrase - Faith communities face unprecedented isolation requiring intentional relationship-building - Ritual practices help process collective trauma while maintaining spiritual grounding - Seminary education must prepare ministers for rapid social change and interfaith cooperation ## 📰 Newsletter This inspiring conversation reminds us that building authentic community requires both ancient wisdom and contemporary innovation. Whether you're leading a small group or managing complex digital projects, the principles shared here apply: prioritize present-moment connection, create safe spaces for processing change, and resist commodifying relationships. The speakers' emphasis on ritual and embodied practice offers valuable lessons for any community-building effort. Just as their congregations find healing through shared bread and mindful prayer, our WordPress communities thrive through consistent, caring interaction. Resources: [Learn WordPress](https://learn.wordpress.org/), [Developer Docs](https://developer.wordpress.org/), [WP-CLI](https://wp-cli.org/) ## ✅ Action Items #### Community - Maintainers: develop grief processing frameworks for project transitions - Contributors: create onboarding rituals that build lasting relationships - Sponsors: fund community healing initiatives beyond technical development - Ecosystem: establish interfaith-style collaboration across competing platforms #### WordPress - Community: design meetup formats addressing post-pandemic isolation - Training: develop lesson plans incorporating ritual and embodied learning - Support: create mental health resources for volunteers experiencing burnout - Accessibility: ensure community spaces accommodate diverse grief processing needs - Meta: build platforms supporting authentic relationship over engagement metrics ## 🧪 Hypotheses - Virtual communities require intentional ritual design to create meaningful connection - Unprocessed collective trauma reduces participation in collaborative projects - Fear-based messaging drives people away from open-source communities - Interfaith-style collaboration models could improve cross-platform cooperation ### 📊 Methodology - Survey community members about isolation and belonging experiences - Design and test ritual practices for virtual gatherings - Compare engagement metrics before/after implementing trauma-informed community practices ### ❓ Questions - How can technical communities adapt ritual practices for healing and connection? - What does grief processing look like in open-source project lifecycles? - How do we resist commodifying community while maintaining sustainability? ### 🔮 Future Research - Study long-term psychological impacts of remote-first community participation - Investigate correlation between community ritual practices and contributor retention - Explore interfaith dialogue models for technical ecosystem collaboration ### 💡 Implications - Practice: Daily community management must account for participants' emotional states - Policy: Community guidelines should address grief, trauma, and healing explicitly - Security: Emotional safety becomes as important as technical security measures - Education: Training programs need trauma-informed and culturally responsive approaches - Funding: Budget allocation should include community healing and ritual facilitation ### 🧠 Learning Styles Assessment Reading level estimate: 12th grade #### 👀 Visual learners - Present: Clear speaker descriptions and visual accessibility practices - Improve: Diagram community connection models, ritual process flows #### 🔊 Aural learners - Present: Full audio conversation with natural dialogue patterns - Improve: Companion podcast series, meditation audio guides #### 🗣️ Verbal learners - Present: Rich storytelling, personal narratives, defined theological terms - Improve: Discussion guides with conversation prompts #### 🧩 Kinesthetic learners - Present: Practical ritual suggestions, embodied practice examples - Improve: Step-by-step community building exercises, hands-on workshops #### 🧠 Logical learners - Present: Clear problem identification and solution frameworks - Improve: Decision trees for community crisis response, metrics for belonging #### 🧑‍🤝‍🧑 Social learners - Present: Interactive chat, Q&A engagement, community building focus - Improve: Small group breakouts, peer mentorship programs #### 🧘‍♀️ Solitary learners - Present: Personal reflection prompts, individual calling stories - Improve: Self-assessment tools, private journaling exercises #### 🌿 Naturalistic learners - Present: Walking meditation references, outdoor spiritual practices - Improve: Nature-based community building activities ### 📊 Accessibility Assessment #### Screen reader semantics - Present: Clear speaker identification, descriptive introductions - Improve: Transcript formatting with consistent heading structure #### Keyboard navigation - Present: Standard video player controls accessible - Improve: Interactive transcript with searchable timestamps #### Contrast and readability - Present: High contrast video interface - Improve: Customizable transcript display options #### Text resizing and reflow - Present: Responsive video player interface - Improve: Scalable transcript and chat interfaces #### Media and captions - Present: Full transcript provided with speaker identification - Improve: Professional captions with emotional context indicators #### Forms and interactions - Present: Chat and Q&A features with clear labeling - Improve: Keyboard shortcuts for participation features ### 🌍 DEIB Assessment #### Cultural breadth - Present: Diverse theological traditions represented, LGBTQ+ affirmation - Improve: More global perspectives on faith and community #### Inclusive language - Present: Pronoun sharing, accessible descriptions, plain language explanations - Improve: Multilingual resources, cultural context for rituals #### Neurodiversity support - Present: Structured conversation format, clear topic transitions - Improve: Content warnings for grief discussions, sensory break recommendations #### Representation - Present: LGBTQ+ clergy, racially diverse perspectives, varied calling stories - Improve: Broader age representation, more economic diversity in examples #### Psychological safety - Present: Vulnerable sharing modeled, trauma acknowledged - Improve: Explicit consent processes for sharing, professional support resources ### ✅ Logical Validity #### Strong reasoning - Deductive strength: If isolation increases, intentional community becomes more necessary - Inductive strength: Multiple examples of ritual providing healing and connection - Causal reasoning: COVID isolation → increased mental health challenges → need for community response - Analogical strength: Star Wars/Star Trek spirituality parallels traditional religious formation #### Fallacies - Appeal to tradition: "Ancient wisdom" claims need more specific evidence - Hasty generalization: Individual seminary experiences may not represent broader trends #### Tone of voice - Overall tone: Compassionate, vulnerable, intellectually curious with pastoral warmth ### 🛡️ DARVO Analysis - Deny: No concerning denial patterns observed - Attack: No attacks on accusers present - Reverse victim/offender: No role reversals detected - Emotional cues and rhetoric: Authentic vulnerability and mutual support demonstrated ## 🎯 Conclusion - Faith communities must prioritize authentic relationship-building over program delivery - Ritual practices provide essential frameworks for processing collective trauma - The future of faith depends on interfaith cooperation and resistance to commodification ## 🧱 Refactor Appendix ### 📚 Literature Split Pad Purpose: Stage CEE units that become Literature notes. Split level: H3 ### [H1] Community addresses post-pandemic isolation needs > [!quote] Future of Faith: Faith in Chaotic Times by Reverend Ellie Hutcherson via United Church of Christ. Published 2024. Accessed 2024-12-20. > "I believe in the digital age that we are in that we are very isolated." Essential insight for any community-building effort in remote-first world. [view highlight](https://youtu.be/Vva9u5EhfoM?t=1515#H1) #xref #articleseed ID:rw_community_isolation ### [H2] Grief requires ritual processing for healing > [!quote] Future of Faith: Faith in Chaotic Times > "Having a relationship with grief and sorrow and recognizing that it's a companion with you always." Critical framework for understanding community trauma responses. [view highlight](https://youtu.be/Vva9u5EhfoM?t=2325#H2) #xref ID:rw_grief_ritual --- ### 🔖 Atomic Split Pad (Zettel Candidates) Purpose: Promote reusable claims into Atomic notes. Split level: H4 #### [Z1] Virtual spaces require intentional sacred design - Applies to any online community seeking meaningful connection - Reference: opening blessing and accessibility practices - Links: [[Community-Building]] [[Sacred-Space]] [[Virtual-Presence]] #### [Z2] Embodied practices reveal presence others miss - Teaching alone insufficient for recognition and transformation - Reference: Road to Emmaus communion insight - Links: [[Ritual-Practice]] [[Embodied-Learning]] [[Divine-Presence]] --- ### ✏️ Fleeting Queue Purpose: Capture quick actions for Fleeting notes. - [F1] Research "The Wild Edge of Sorrow" book — grief companionship model #fleeting #inbox - [F2] Design virtual ritual practices — community connection experiments #fleeting #inbox - [F3] Explore interfaith collaboration — models for technical ecosystems #fleeting #inbox --- ## Full Transcript [00:25] Everything that I am, I am becoming is [00:31] sacred and holy. Spirit is with me. The [00:36] living God is forming. Creator is [00:41] making, weaving and painting, singing [00:46] and waiting. [00:49] And I will be free. [00:55] I will be free. [01:00] I will be free. [01:06] I will be free. [01:13] Everything is holy when we are growing. [01:18] We honor the journey of life [01:24] where a soul can find nurture. A person [01:27] belong. No matter who or where they've [01:30] come from, everybody has a common song. [01:34] We will be free. [01:40] We will be free. [01:46] We will be free. [01:51] We will be free. [02:02] We will be free. [02:08] We will be free. [02:11] We will be free. [02:14] We will be free. [02:19] We will be free. [02:22] We will be free. [02:25] We will be free. [02:37] Welcome, welcome, welcome beloveds to [02:40] Nurture the Soul. I am your host today, [02:43] Reverend Ellie Hutcherson. I'm the [02:45] minister for congregational and [02:47] community engagement with the faith info [02:50] team and we are a part of the love of [02:53] church at the national ministry setting [02:55] of the United Church of Christ. I use [02:58] they them pronouns and today am wearing [03:00] black rimmed reading glasses, a cream [03:04] tank sweater and a silver short pixie [03:08] haircut. [03:10] Nurture the Soul is a weekly webinar [03:12] series that centers curiosity and care [03:16] by providing a multitude of practical, [03:19] educational, innovative, and formational [03:22] resources to engage with the critical [03:25] topics facing our communities today. [03:29] We feature an array of thought leaders [03:32] to delve deeply into these topics for us [03:35] to explore what a gospel for such a time [03:38] as this is like. We hope that this [03:42] virtual space is a space for connection [03:44] that cultivates curious and loving [03:46] community and that you join us every [03:48] Thursday at 3:30 p.m. Eastern time or [03:52] like today we have some special [03:54] offerings. You can find all of our [03:57] digital programming on our website at [04:00] ucc.org/events [04:03] or on all of our social media platforms. [04:07] And I'd like to get to this before I get [04:09] to our guests. And you are already using [04:12] one of the major features in our uh [04:15] webinar and that is the chat feature. We [04:18] hope that you continue to use the chat [04:21] to crowdsource, to comment back and [04:23] forth to each other, um to share where [04:26] you're zooming in from and your faith [04:28] community. And I see somebody just put [04:30] up one of our reaction features, which [04:33] is also one of my favorites. Your [04:35] reaction feature is a heart-shaped [04:38] button at the bottom of your screen. You [04:41] can use that all the time, anytime, [04:43] especially if something that one of our [04:45] presenters, one of our conversation [04:47] partners shares that lands with you. Um, [04:51] going back to that chat feature, it [04:53] looks like a dialogue bubble at the [04:55] bottom of your screen. You can use that [04:57] at any time. And we also have time at [05:00] the end of this webinar for Q&A. And you [05:03] can use that feature as well. You can [05:05] put a question in at any time. It is at [05:08] the bottom of your screen. Looks like a [05:10] dialogue bubble but has a question mark [05:13] in it. Beloveds, today we are joined by [05:17] pastors and thought leaders Reverends [05:19] George and Bentley for our special [05:21] offering of future of faith. This series [05:24] is curated to help us learn from these [05:26] thought and religious leaders who are [05:28] exploring these themes along with their [05:31] congregations from across this great [05:33] nation who have heard and are following [05:37] the invitation to come into that [05:39] dreaming space where all of God's [05:41] creation can be cared for. This is a [05:45] space where we can know that collective [05:47] dignity, love, kindness, and respect is [05:51] honored and how our different [05:53] perspectives of faith can actually [05:56] create that better world that we're all [05:58] hoping for. And so, I invite George and [06:01] Bentley onto the screen. Thank you so [06:04] much for joining us today. And I see my [06:07] co-curator and co-host, Reverend Elder, [06:10] is here as well. So, if they would like [06:12] to come on to screen, it would be great [06:14] to have you. Hello, homie. Good to see [06:16] you. [06:18] Well, beloveds, it is so great to be in [06:20] this virtual space. I tell you what, [06:22] this on again, off again with Nurture [06:24] the Soul because of all of this cool [06:26] stuff we have going on. Really bums me [06:28] out cuz I don't get to virtually be with [06:30] you, but we're here and we're going to [06:32] enjoy this moment at this time in this [06:35] virtual sacred space. So, George [06:38] Bentley, how is it with your body and [06:40] your soul today? [06:45] >> George, you want to take that? I can [06:46] come back around. [06:48] >> Sure. So, I'd say I'm my body and soul [06:51] feel uh well today. I feel well today. [06:54] Um Monday is my regular Sabbath day, and [06:58] it's cool here in Cleveland. Cold uh [07:01] just above freezing, but the sky is [07:03] clear. And uh from where I'm sitting, I [07:06] can see the blue sky. So I'm I'm feeling [07:09] pretty good today. [07:12] >> Love that. Colds. I don't even know what [07:14] that means, but go ahead. [07:17] >> Yeah. Don't make us envious because [07:19] you're, you know, in the southwest. [07:22] >> I too I'm in Cleveland, uh Ohio, and uh [07:25] my soul feels like it's just radiating [07:28] like the sun. My body is struggling a [07:31] little bit. I have a bit of a migraine [07:33] and I'm trying to manage that. But I I [07:36] taken all the things that I needed. So [07:38] I'm very present to be with you all [07:40] today. I'm honored to do so. [07:42] >> Yeah. Well, thank you for your [07:43] authenticity and your vol or your [07:46] vulnerability and sharing where our [07:48] souls and minds and bodies are today. [07:50] Right. Because it's okay that they're [07:52] not the same every day. And we have a [07:54] society that's saying you, you know, [07:56] just work your way through it. Just do [07:58] all of these things. And in fact, when [08:00] we care for ourselves, we get to care [08:02] for others in such that open and loving [08:05] way, you know. But before we get into a [08:09] little bit more about uh what our future [08:12] of faith is, I am super curious at what [08:16] brought you all into the work of [08:19] religion? What was your calling and how [08:22] long did it take you to actually listen? [08:26] >> Okay, since I went last, I'll go first [08:28] on this. And so um I will make this as [08:31] brief as possible and you can go hey [08:33] stop you know we got other things to do [08:35] in case it goes long-winded. Um so what [08:38] brought me into the body or work of [08:40] religion is um actually through Star [08:43] Wars right so I wasn't raised in a [08:45] religious home. Yeah. Right. And so by [08:47] the second Star Wars movie um re Empire [08:52] Strikes Back um there was this character [08:54] in introduced called Yoda. And so it was [08:58] something about that character that [09:00] really spoke to me. I was in college at [09:03] that time. Uh and so was just trying to [09:07] navigate how do I find myself [09:11] in a place where I learn more about [09:15] spirituality maybe more than religion. [09:17] And then um maybe a within a year or two [09:20] of that uh uh was born again and found [09:24] religion. And there were lots of people [09:26] around me kept saying, "There's [09:28] something about you, something about you [09:31] that God has a call upon you." And I [09:34] really didn't understand that either. [09:36] And that at a certain point, I found [09:38] myself wrestling with seminary. And you [09:41] know, while I I was saying no, speaking [09:44] more like Moses about, well, I stumble [09:46] or stutter and blah blah. Um, you know, [09:50] dare I say, I'm Reverend Doctor now. So, [09:53] looks like God won in those battles or [09:55] spirit or whatever won my address that [09:59] by. But yeah, that's my long and short [10:01] story. [10:02] >> Yeah. H I love it. I love that you [10:05] listened because I get to meet you on [10:06] this end. But yeah, and Star Wars, huh? [10:10] >> Yes, I love Star Wars. Yes. [10:12] >> Okay. Are you a Treky as well or is that [10:14] something [10:14] >> I am because that is where I began as a [10:17] a guy born on the cusp of boomers and [10:20] Gen Xers. So, I tell folks that Star [10:24] Trek shaped my understanding of how we [10:29] ought to be able to get along with [10:31] anyone, [10:33] >> no matter, you know, race, color, uh, [10:35] uh, race, uh, ethnicity, sexual [10:38] orientation, gender identity, all that [10:41] stuff. Um, but Star Wars really dropped [10:44] down for my spirituality. So, I do love [10:46] them both for very different reasons. [10:49] >> Oh, awesome. Thank you. That's so cool. [10:52] >> Yeah. [10:53] >> How about you? [10:54] >> Um, so, uh, my call to ministry [10:57] happened, um, relatively early and I, [11:01] uh, as a result of, uh, being in the [11:04] church and being raised in the church [11:06] and having a family that was really [11:09] involved. My father was a lay speaker [11:11] and my mother was, uh, really involved [11:14] in Christian ed and they were both [11:15] involved in leadership. Um, and I didn't [11:20] I didn't um consider ministry until I [11:23] was in youth group and doing um service [11:26] projects with uh work camps with uh the [11:31] youth group and started to feel a call [11:33] to ministry by the end of high school [11:36] and thought that my call was to local [11:38] church ministry and I went to seminary, [11:42] went to Vanderbilt and came out as a gay [11:44] man in the middle of that journey. [11:47] and um was United Methodist at that [11:51] point. So, it was not an option to be [11:52] ordained. So, my my road to ministry [11:56] took a uh it was a long and winding one. [12:00] Um I worked uh in communications for the [12:04] United Methodist Church and then for the [12:06] UCCC and then moved into financial [12:09] development. [12:10] Um and I was able to be ordained. um uh [12:15] that was uh a a position that [12:17] constituted a call and uh so I'm [12:21] thankful that I found my way to the UCCC [12:23] and was able to be ordained. Um but I [12:26] did not find my way to pastoral ministry [12:29] full-time [12:31] uh until uh being called to pilgrim two [12:34] and a half years ago in Cleveland. And [12:37] I'm really grateful for that um that [12:40] call and I feel like things have come [12:42] full circle for me even though it's been [12:45] a a journey of um more than 30 years. [12:49] >> Yeah. And it almost always does, doesn't [12:51] it? I mean if we and once we reach a [12:53] certain uh age uh or way of living in [12:57] the world we realize that perhaps those [12:59] those things that that appeared or [13:02] bubbled up when we were teens or in our [13:04] 20s you're like oh I'm that was back [13:07] then and then when you are in your 50s [13:09] you're like oh actually I am a lot like [13:13] my teenage self. I hadn't realized that [13:16] yeah that they circle back around and [13:19] they come back around. Well, what a gift [13:21] it is to have both of you all. Go ahead, [13:23] Bentley. What were you saying? [13:24] >> Yeah, I wanted to add a little bit um [13:26] about that too is how I got to the UCCC. [13:29] And so, as I said, I wasn't raised in a [13:31] religious home. And so, I came out at [13:34] the age of 19. And so, when religion [13:38] entered into my life in my mid to late [13:42] 20s, I had to wrestle through that and [13:46] try to figure out, well, does God love [13:48] me or not love me? and all of these [13:50] kinds of things. So anyway, dare I say [13:53] that by after a few years in um the as [13:58] um the Reverend Dr. Bishop um uh Iet [14:03] Plunder says uh as a baptostalish [14:08] person. So you know uh Pentecostal and [14:12] missionary Baptist kind of stuff. Um, I [14:14] kind of came out of that and said, [14:16] "That's just wild to me." And was still [14:19] in seminary trying to figure it out. and [14:22] uh moved a few times and landed in uh [14:26] Memphis, Tennessee, where I was doing um [14:29] CPE, clinical pastoral education and um [14:34] was told by my [14:36] uh [14:38] mentor then or chaplain, leader, [14:43] whatever his role was, Alan Bell was his [14:46] name. I can remember that much, which is [14:47] a miracle unto itself. But uh that um [14:51] that a part of me, the liberal part of [14:53] me um was fighting against the [14:57] conservative theology that was placed [15:00] inside of me in those seminary [15:02] institutions and invited me to check out [15:05] um one of the two uh UCCC churches in [15:10] Memphis where I was living at the time [15:12] and uh found uh First Congregational [15:16] Church in Memphis and uh at that point [15:19] started learning about the UCCC and [15:22] really the rest of that is um as they [15:24] say just kind of water under the bridge. [15:26] I found that I could be fully myself in [15:30] a space where I could question and push [15:34] back and all of that. And so in that [15:37] space in the United Church of Christ [15:40] religion and I have a unique dance and [15:43] so I really appreciate it there or here [15:46] should I say. [15:47] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And I too, [15:50] George, grew up Methodist. And and um [15:54] was a single a single mom in my teens. [15:57] And so I went to any religious service. [16:00] It didn't have to be a Christian service [16:02] that would one help that would level on [16:05] my child so I could get a break. Um not [16:08] a break loving my child, but you know, [16:11] um that would feed my son because, you [16:14] know, he always ate. He always was [16:17] hungry. You know, and so like we became [16:19] multifaith just by pure survival and not [16:24] knowing how much what we were actually [16:26] taking in was going to be able to inform [16:32] what he would say he is not religious so [16:34] he wouldn't say his theology but his [16:36] ideology and for me my theology how is [16:39] it I want to be in relationship with [16:41] people so grew up Methodist for sure but [16:44] I visited Baptist I visited cogit I [16:47] visited visited amme, I visited [16:49] Lutheran, I like look and it was finally [16:52] when I came to the UCC that I was like, [16:55] "Oh, [16:57] I actually feel like I'm being told [17:01] a a story of love, a story of that God [17:05] is still speaking." So, the invitation [17:07] to be curious [17:09] was unlike anything else that I had [17:11] experienced. Um, and not that it was [17:14] right or wrong or better or worse than [17:16] anything else. It was just at that [17:18] moment in my life, I I I felt held in my [17:22] curiosity and invited to journey [17:25] alongside others and that and that's [17:27] also kind of what has informed me even [17:30] thinking about what is the future of our [17:32] faith. You know, you both touched very [17:35] briefly on seminary and early [17:38] theological education. I'm I'm curious. [17:42] Did your seminary education teach you to [17:45] think about the future of what our faith [17:47] would look like? [17:53] >> Um, [17:54] >> this is a question we did not prepare [17:55] for. So, sorry about that, y'all. [17:58] Well, I think that my I I feel really [18:01] fortunate about the seminary education [18:03] that I had and and that um it really did [18:09] teach me to think and respond. [18:12] Um [18:14] the world at hand I [18:19] could have happened. Um I went to [18:22] seminary. Um we didn't even have the [18:25] worldwide web yet. So things have really [18:28] changed a lot and yet I feel like it did [18:31] it did prepare me to respond to the the [18:34] times that we're living in. [18:36] >> Yeah. Yeah. [18:39] >> I would say by the time I got to my [18:41] third seminary which was Eden Seminary [18:45] in St. Louis or Webster Groves, [18:48] Missouri. Um, yes, that I felt that I I [18:53] was being trained [18:57] um and equipped to both serve either in [19:01] a local church and or in a um uh current [19:07] u institutional setting um judicatory [19:10] setting as we say in the UCCC. And so um [19:14] the answer to that is yes. And then I so [19:16] I got my MD at Eden and could be fully [19:20] out there and um got my um doctoral [19:26] degree in uh or at CTS and so where um [19:31] and that was in the early 2000s and [19:34] queer studies was still very new and [19:36] fresh and they were one of the few [19:38] seminaries offering that. So, I was able [19:40] to kind of expand and understand how to [19:44] queer things in a way. I already [19:45] understood uh uh liberation uh through a [19:50] racial lens. And so it just really did [19:53] feel like I was being brought in in [19:57] places and spaces to uh think for [20:01] myself, draw upon the wisdom of the [20:04] elders, whether that might have been uh [20:07] uh in a spiritual way or draw upon them [20:10] uh theological uh you know, whoever they [20:13] might be, whether that was a James Con [20:15] or or a Walter Bighgamman or something [20:17] to that effect. So yeah, I think that it [20:20] did equip me uh in my later years. [20:23] >> Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Thank you. So w [20:27] with your with the ability to have this [20:31] theological background with your own. So [20:34] what we've gotten what we've got to hear [20:36] is a little bit about your stories about [20:38] how you came into ministry, then a [20:41] little bit about your seminary [20:42] education. I'm thinking about [20:46] how has that informed you with the [20:49] communities that you find yourselves in [20:52] now? Like what is the what do you [20:54] recognize perhaps is the greatest need [20:58] or maybe even just the greatest question [21:01] um for your spiritual communities that [21:03] you find yourselves in now. What is [21:04] that? [21:10] I guess I um I feel like I uh should [21:13] have mentioned that I just recently [21:15] completed a doctor of ministry from Eden [21:17] Theological Seminary and I was able to [21:19] go back for their uh spring convocation [21:22] uh two weeks ago. So that was wonderful. [21:26] I see myself as a lifelong learner and [21:30] um I um [21:33] u [21:35] it it has helped pull the thread of my [21:39] ministry forward to be involved um with [21:43] um with seminary education. [21:46] >> Yeah. You had Dr. Leum and Dr. Seiku uh [21:50] give some great talks that day. Yes. [21:52] >> Really wonderful talks. [21:53] >> Yeah. Um, [21:56] so I think that that um I would say that [22:00] Vanderbilt had a very liberationist [22:03] approach and I worked closely with Sally [22:05] McFag on ecological theology and see [22:09] that bearing fruit right now in my [22:11] ministry at at Pilgrim and our concerns [22:14] about the environment. But then um um [22:18] thinking about racial justice, racial [22:22] equity, and the scholars I've been able [22:24] to um study with and also the books that [22:28] I've been able to to read in the courses [22:32] um have been just really important to [22:35] me. um from cone to uh oh any number of [22:40] of folks. [22:45] >> Yeah. Yeah. That's yeah that's awesome. [22:48] So yeah what is that need? What are you [22:50] seeing? Is it the ecological things uh [22:53] George or is it [22:55] >> um well I I guess I really feel at its [23:02] core [23:04] um is actually the need for community [23:09] um [23:09] >> and um the need [23:13] um to work for justice within community. [23:17] whole bunch of different facets of [23:19] justice, but I see them all connected [23:22] and intersecting. [23:24] >> Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for that. [23:27] >> Yeah. I would echo that it is community [23:30] as well because I believe in the digital [23:33] age that we are in that we are very [23:36] isolated and obviously we still don't [23:38] know the impact of what co has done to [23:39] us psychologically and the ways in which [23:42] we have fractured ourselves and not re [23:44] recognizing that I need to be in [23:47] relationship with you George and you [23:48] Ellie and so and and so many others even [23:52] if I'm in relationship in a family right [23:55] with my spouse or my children or [23:57] whomever is that uh this device isn't [24:00] the thing I have a relationship with, [24:02] right? And that I really do need to sit [24:04] down and and listen to you. Not just [24:07] hear you, but listen to you and open up [24:10] my heart and be in connection with you. [24:13] So I do believe that community is key, [24:17] but that love is at the center of that, [24:19] right? And so and not me, myself and I, [24:23] right? So it's not all about me. It [24:25] really is in about how do I balance the [24:28] needs of myself in addition to the needs [24:31] of the community. So here's a Spock [24:32] quote for you that the needs of the many [24:35] outweigh the needs of the one. Right? So [24:37] how about that for Spock, right? So I [24:39] told you they both mean a lot to me. I [24:41] can give you a Yoda quote later, but we [24:43] won't give it to you right now. But [24:44] anyway, uh [24:46] >> um so yeah, but also that I have [24:49] relationship with the planet, right? And [24:52] that mother earth needs me too. that I [24:54] need to be fighting for clean air and [24:57] clean water and all of those things. So, [25:00] it's not just about consuming [25:03] people or other resources as in planet. [25:06] So, yeah, I do think community is key. [25:10] And so, and there are ways in which that [25:13] I must lead this. I can't just speak it, [25:17] but I must also example that when I say [25:20] lead it so that folk recognize, oh, he's [25:24] serious, right? Or he's committed to [25:27] that and not in a religious way, but in [25:30] a relational way. [25:32] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love how you bring [25:34] it back to that relational way because I [25:36] think my follow-up question would be, [25:39] you know, what does forming and [25:41] committing to and sustaining community [25:45] look like? Um, I know there are lots of [25:49] folks who go to church who, at least [25:51] where the church where I get to serve, [25:53] who aren't necessarily believers in uh [25:56] in Christ. um they have some questions [25:59] or they have some questions about God. [26:01] They believe in Jesus, but like they're [26:03] like good, but they come every Sunday [26:06] because they love to be with people [26:09] where they feel safe, where they feel [26:11] seen and heard and loved. So, what is it [26:14] that like what is it that you're finding [26:17] is good to hold and nurture community in [26:22] both of your spaces? [26:26] Is it the coffee hour? Is it the service [26:29] projects? Is it the del delving into [26:31] scripture? [26:32] >> Here, I'll speak first. Um, so uh I I am [26:37] not a pastor. Uh I was I uh my first um [26:41] gig or my first call after seminary was [26:45] uh at a church in St. Louis, Missouri. [26:48] And so, um, that was, [26:52] um, uh, helpful in the things that, uh, [26:55] it taught me. Some things were painful [26:57] and some things were loving. And so, but [27:00] that's life, right? So, we have to take [27:01] the bitter with the speed. Um, and so, [27:05] so, but I've been in a national setting [27:08] um, a few months shy of 20 years now. [27:10] And so, that's where my ministry is of a [27:14] sort, right? in that um I've been uh [27:19] managing or supervising or guiding [27:23] uh staff for a very long time like I [27:25] said nearly two decades and so so that's [27:27] where I find um community for myself. I [27:31] am a member of Pilgrim uh UCCC where as [27:35] I said before George is pastor but I [27:37] honestly don't show up there a lot at [27:39] least not in person. I may show up [27:40] virtually, but because I have community [27:43] in so many other places that often do [27:45] take Sundays for me. And so I I I just [27:48] don't go there. But but I do again uh [27:52] believe that my ministry and the ways in [27:55] which I show up for people um do are [27:59] reflected both at work as well as I have [28:02] a small practice with my husband. My [28:04] husband is a um uh somatic therapist and [28:08] we do couples counseling together and so [28:10] it's even there and just trying to help [28:12] them. He comes at it from a uh [28:15] psychological and sematic way and I come [28:18] at it from a spiritual and psychological [28:20] way so that we are trying to cover all [28:21] those bases of mind, body, spirit [28:24] because I think we must be holistic in [28:28] our approach because any place that [28:31] there is a deficit will then begin to [28:33] eat or erode at the other. [28:36] >> Yeah. [28:38] Yeah. Thank you for that. [28:41] >> Yeah. And I um think that it's um [28:47] important to have a space where people [28:53] can be who they are, feel accepted, [28:57] um grieve what they might feel like are [29:02] the hurts and losses that they're [29:04] experiencing, but also have a sense of [29:06] of hope in the future and ways to work [29:11] toward that future. Um, I've been really [29:16] heartened at at Pilgrim. Um, after [29:20] Christmas and after Easter [29:24] in attendance, a little lull, but I feel [29:28] like people continue to show up. And I [29:31] think that [29:33] um we all need a sense of community [29:36] right now and a sense of of hope and a [29:40] way to um address um uh the reality in [29:45] our country right now and try to work um [29:48] toward a a future that we want. So [29:52] that's the kind of space that I'm trying [29:54] to provide in worship, but then also in [29:58] fellowship hour and beyond that um [30:02] people really know each other um and can [30:05] be themselves and feel what they're [30:07] feeling but then also share some sense [30:10] of of [30:15] >> for the future. [30:17] >> Yeah. And and Go ahead. Go ahead. No, [30:20] you finish. I I'll come after you. Oh, I [30:23] was just going to say I think you know [30:24] one of one of the things that I think [30:27] about when you know Bentley you going [30:29] back to what you had said we don't [30:30] really know the impacts quite yet [30:32] psychologically on us um from from co [30:36] and I think a lot about um [30:42] the masses of people that passed away [30:46] from whether it be directly the you know [30:49] from co 19 the corona virus us and how [30:52] do we how many have passed away because [30:55] of the adjacent loneliness that came [30:59] with it especially our community that [31:02] are living with the impacts of dementia [31:03] and Alzheimer's right so we have those [31:06] COVID direct deaths we have those [31:08] associated or affiliated deaths that we [31:11] can't possibly know the impact of such [31:13] great loss right um and so I think a lot [31:17] about that what does it mean for us to [31:19] be coming out of a secluded space where [31:24] we were fearful of the other person [31:27] because of what they you know might we [31:29] might breathe in. We we share the same [31:31] breath to how that has been capitalized [31:35] into the collective individual, [31:38] right? There is no there is no community [31:41] if it isn't if it doesn't, you know, [31:44] it's you first. It's you prot I feel [31:47] like we would have done better with the [31:49] masking if we would have said, "Well, [31:50] mask to protect yourself and not mask to [31:52] protect other people." because we were [31:54] already leaning into that just severe [31:57] individualism where churches have always [31:59] been a space at least I hope churches [32:02] have always been a space where we're [32:03] invited out of that individualism [32:07] right and so I think a lot about what is [32:10] it is the for the role of the church [32:13] right now in this moment to say we are [32:15] coming out of of a of a scary space and [32:19] we're entering even a scarier space like [32:22] somebody put into the Q&A this wonderful [32:25] conversation about that they work as a [32:28] hospital chaplain and working with [32:30] people of all different faiths [32:31] Christians are the ones who seem to have [32:33] the difficulty with the ambiguity right [32:36] I feel like we're always in that [32:37] doubting Thomas stage before we get to [32:39] the whatever right so like how is it [32:42] that we are asking our our our [32:45] communities to be in community in the [32:48] midst of so much ambiguity [32:51] >> so before I tackle Glad I want to say [32:53] what I was thinking before if that's [32:55] okay. But since you kind of invoked CO [32:57] again, I do want to say [32:59] >> that my mother died um in toward the end [33:03] of CO um or what was officially CO um uh [33:08] precoid she was walking and you know [33:12] shopping and doing all those things at [33:15] the end of her life as she was being [33:18] sheltered alone. She lived in a senior [33:21] community, but everybody had to stay [33:22] inside. She couldn't walk anymore. She [33:25] couldn't she was her dementia kind of ex [33:29] expanded. It was just very sad to watch [33:31] her rapidly decline. And I do believe it [33:34] was the isolation. So that is that. The [33:36] other thing is that I would say with [33:37] regard to hope that George invoked was [33:40] that um I believe that there's so much [33:44] grief [33:45] in the world. COVID was a uh kind of um [33:50] kind of expanded that in a lot of ways [33:52] because fear um was a you know kind of [33:55] wrapped up in that too. So again grief [33:57] in that that a couple of years ago I [33:59] read this book called the wild edge of [34:02] sorrow um and it's biser [34:07] and it talks about uh having a [34:09] relationship with grief and sorrow and [34:12] recognizing that it's a companion with [34:14] you always. And so I I like to tell [34:16] people to read that book, right? And [34:18] there are a small group of us reading [34:20] that in the national setting because [34:23] unless we can really identify what we're [34:25] feeling, we don't really know how to get [34:27] to a hopeful place because if we're [34:29] looking for somebody to give it to you [34:30] out there, that's the wrong direction. [34:33] You got to find it inside, right? And so [34:35] it really helps us using um both [34:38] psychological [34:39] um tools as well as ancestral tools. And [34:43] I think both again are are very [34:45] important and that's how I kind of live [34:47] my own life is drawing upon all of that [34:50] ancient wisdom um that's in our in our [34:53] bodies in our souls already and then [34:56] cerebrally looking to the ances uh the [34:59] theologians and and and as well as those [35:02] who might call themselves philosophers [35:04] or whatever because there's good [35:06] >> juju good information everywhere. [35:08] >> Yeah. [35:09] >> Right. [35:09] >> Oh yeah. Yeah. So, the other question [35:11] you asked was what? I'm sorry. [35:14] >> Well, just I I don't even know. I got [35:17] lost into that. Like, yeah, I got lost [35:19] into that. That's great. [35:20] >> Sorry. Yeah, [35:22] >> George might have hurt it, too. [35:25] >> Yeah. George, do you have anything to [35:28] add? [35:31] Um [35:33] I um I don't know that I I do to that [35:38] particularly other than to say that um I [35:42] think that the the impact of COVID is [35:45] still very much with us. Um, and I saw a [35:48] couple comments in the in the in the [35:51] chat about that. And um, I know as [35:55] friends or family members have gone [35:58] through another bout, it's like I don't [36:01] think any of us understood six years ago [36:03] when this started that we would still be [36:05] dealing with it to this degree. It's [36:08] really um, pretty amazing. and um [36:11] colleagues who are still dealing with [36:14] the impact of long co. It's um it's [36:16] really something. It it changed the way [36:19] that we live in in ways that [36:22] >> um I think what Bentley said about [36:24] grief, we just um we haven't taken the [36:27] time to process it all. [36:30] >> Yeah. And and I think so much of part of [36:35] you know I would like to say what I [36:36] think so much of our issues are today is [36:38] our inability to understand and sit in [36:42] the grief moments right which brings me [36:44] to this really you know when I think of [36:46] grief when I think about how do we deal [36:48] with the sadness of the world right it [36:50] isn't just the grief of someone passing [36:52] it's the grief of our life changing we [36:54] may have been this but now we're this [36:56] you know for whatever reason um how do [36:59] we grieve that change. I'm often brought [37:02] back to the idea of ritual, right? For [37:05] me, you know, I hadn't had anybody, you [37:08] know, really close to me pass away until [37:11] my my dog, right? My dog passed away uh [37:15] two summers ago, and I never felt that [37:20] much grief in my life. And I was like, I [37:23] immediately built an altar to him. Um, [37:26] and I found it fascinating because I was [37:29] never really into altar building before. [37:32] I always honored and respected other [37:34] people's version of that, but never [37:36] really got it until I got it right. [37:39] Until I was in that grief and then [37:41] needing to build the altar and then and [37:44] then developing a ritual around it. So, [37:46] I'm curious, what are some of the ritual [37:48] practices or spiritual guides that you [37:51] all are using to help make sense of the [37:54] world that we're living in? whether it [37:55] be personally or going back to that [37:57] community, that collective uh ritual [38:00] space. What does that look like? [38:04] Um so I I I can start and I can say um [38:08] personally [38:10] um that uh having time outside to walk [38:16] or to run uh is really really important [38:20] to me and it's a time of reflection for [38:24] me where I can hold up um those losses [38:28] and and kind of process them. Um our [38:32] church lost [38:35] uh five uh members last year within a [38:38] series of months and that was just a [38:40] really difficult time. Real saints of [38:43] the the congregation. A lot of people [38:45] who were uh really dear to the [38:48] congregation and still very active. Um [38:51] they all fortunately had lived very full [38:54] lives and yet there's still that sense [38:57] of loss. Um and it still um [39:02] surprises me uh of course All Saints was [39:06] uh meaningful but then I'm surprised at [39:10] different points of the year. I remember [39:12] Monday Thursday and um a woman named [39:16] Nancy uh who died last year had read uh [39:21] last year and I just missed her so much [39:24] on Monday Thursday I think. um [39:29] uh being honest about that and saying [39:32] hey you know I'm I'm feeling this um and [39:36] remembering people that way that that um [39:39] that ritual is u very important. [39:43] >> Yeah. Yeah. Thank you George. [39:47] >> Yeah. Um so in my early uh life [39:52] pre [39:54] ordination all of that um there were a [39:56] lot of rituals that I really valued in [39:59] the church. You know I really loved um [40:01] so in some ways you know I really loved [40:02] the Catholicism and its rituals. I guess [40:06] high church would be um something close [40:08] to that. Um so you know lighting candles [40:12] and just sitting in silence. I I have an [40:15] altar here with family and my dog, a [40:17] former dog of mine that are on it where [40:20] I sit there daily and just uh light [40:23] candles and pray for people I know and [40:26] try to commune with spirit and and just [40:29] kind of start my day in a way that I [40:32] feel really rooted and grounded. But but [40:35] that I learned that in church I will [40:37] burn incense. That's what I learned in [40:39] the Catholic church. All the incensors [40:41] and all of that. So all those smells [40:43] going up to the heavens. So as well as [40:46] have done sweat lodges and things like [40:48] that and and native rituals where [40:50] they're burning sage and cleaning [40:51] energy. So all of those things um are [40:54] part of my life today, right? Because I [40:58] >> I recognize that um I really want to [41:01] stay in relationship with my ancestors [41:05] as well spiritually, right? as well as [41:08] with God in a way that I have been [41:11] shaped both uh in an ancestral way and [41:14] shaped in a theological way that I'm [41:17] honor and being authentic into um who I [41:20] am. But I want to go back to me talking [41:24] about um the wild edge of sorrow. And [41:27] like I said, there are rituals in there [41:29] as well. and and and grief isn't just [41:32] about, you know, grieving the loss of a [41:34] pet or my parents and all of that or [41:36] grandparents, whomever form a [41:38] relationship. Grief is about losing a [41:40] job or losing, you know, your health. [41:43] You know, I was diagnosed with cancer [41:44] last year and have survived that. I mean [41:46] there's so many things that we have to [41:49] process or or the ways in which um you [41:53] know I may no longer be in relationship [41:55] with my best friend or I may no longer [41:58] be in relationship with my with my [41:59] spouse and all of these things that keep [42:02] hitting us and we don't necessarily know [42:04] how to grieve them. And so the rituals [42:07] that I take on and and will share with [42:10] others who ask. I don't I will say I'm [42:12] curious about something with someone or [42:15] invite a conversation in some way and [42:16] say, you know, you might want to [42:18] consider this and blah blah blah. But I [42:20] do think that without a ritual to anchor [42:23] me, [42:24] um I would be more lost or be lost [42:27] period. Right. [42:28] >> Or Yeah. Or be lost period. Right. [42:31] Right. George, did you have something [42:33] you wanted to respond back with? [42:36] >> Well, um, and I I guess I, um, those [42:41] rituals are just so [42:44] important, um, within the church [42:46] formalized, um, but also ones that we [42:50] come up with ourselves. Um I preached um [42:55] yesterday on the road to Emmas and one [42:59] of the things that just really [43:01] reflecting on [43:04] um that passage made me realize [43:08] is that Christ was only recognized in [43:11] the embodied practice of sharing [43:14] communion, taking bread, blessing it, [43:17] breaking it, and sharing it. [43:19] they uh they didn't recognize him in the [43:23] hours that he taught them. Their hearts [43:26] might have been burning, but they didn't [43:28] recognize them until u there was an [43:31] embodied practice. So, I think that that [43:33] is so crucial right now. [43:35] >> And I'm looking for ways to embody [43:38] practice within the congregation. Um, [43:42] one of the things that we've started to [43:43] do is practice a little bit of [43:45] mindfulness, um, leading into, um, uh, a [43:50] time of silent prayer. And, um, that was [43:55] meaningful for me when people have done [43:58] it. And I thought, okay, I'm going to [43:59] take this to the congregation. And I [44:02] think I've gotten positive feedback. [44:04] It's um, that that people are [44:07] appreciative of having that time. [44:11] Yeah. Yes. Yes. Thank you, George. Thank [44:13] you, Bentley. You know, I want to remind [44:15] folks that this is an opportunity to [44:17] speak to some wonderful human beings. [44:19] You can use our Q&A feature, which is at [44:22] the bottom of your screen in the shape [44:24] of a dialogue bubble with a question [44:25] mark in the middle of it. We do have a [44:28] question that came in before I get to [44:30] back to some of mine. Someone said, "How [44:32] is it that greed is impacting our world [44:35] through the lens of faith?" [44:38] How is greed impacting our world through [44:41] the lens of faith? [44:47] >> Wow, that's a big question and I don't [44:49] know that I can fully answer it, but off [44:52] the top of my head, I would say that [44:56] greed has impacted everything. So, why [44:57] would we think it wouldn't get to faith, [44:59] right? in that we can pedal cell faith [45:03] >> um in a way that doesn't require in my [45:07] belief um the depth that it takes to [45:11] learn and grow and understand. It's um [45:16] you know it's like self-help you know I [45:18] can read a book and teach myself [45:20] something but am I really going deep and [45:23] do I really understand and so so what I [45:27] hear in that question is it how has it [45:29] been commodified [45:31] >> and and so and so that's where I say [45:34] everything has been and so I mean that's [45:37] what an influencer is right isn't that [45:38] me being commodifying myself so that I [45:42] can get you to buy this thing over here [45:44] and so all That makes no sense to me and [45:46] it makes total sense to me. So I I don't [45:49] think that we since that you know while [45:52] scripture may have been [45:55] kind of [45:57] written uh as in my view a guide because [46:02] someone in community felt God was [46:05] speaking these things. Um it also um it [46:10] is still a human uh experience meaning [46:14] that it's going to be uh both uh [46:17] infected with great things and bad [46:19] things and so it's just unfortunately [46:22] the way of being human. So greed would [46:25] touch that as it has touched everything [46:27] else. [46:30] >> Yeah. And I think um trying to uh find [46:36] antidotes um to uh to greed um by [46:43] examples of generosity and and lifting [46:46] up um [46:49] uh generosity and opportunities for [46:51] that. Um and making real connection [46:56] uh with people. um that those are just [47:01] there's no substitute uh for that. [47:04] >> I agree. [47:06] >> Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I It's [47:07] interesting. I had um somebody I I as an [47:11] associate pastor just preach once or [47:13] twice a month, you know, and I had [47:15] somebody come up and said, "This is the [47:18] first time that I felt like giving more [47:21] in the offering plate than I have before [47:24] because of somebody's sermon." Is that [47:26] why you place is that why churches place [47:29] the um the invitation to offering after [47:32] the sermon? I was like, "Oh god, I hope [47:35] not because I don't know if I would [47:37] always deliver a good enough sermon to [47:38] warrant anybody to give money." And I [47:40] don't want it to be associated to that. [47:43] Like I was like, I never even thought [47:44] about the order of service, right? The [47:46] order of worship having invitation [47:48] offering right after the sermon. And I'm [47:50] like, "Oo, that kind of makes me feel a [47:53] little bit like you said, Bentley, an [47:55] influencer." Like, "Oh, I influenced [47:57] them to believe in Christianity this [47:59] week." And so, get more money. I never [48:02] even thought about it to then. Right. [48:03] So, yeah, it's it's always interesting [48:06] to play around even with just the the [48:08] rituals that we might have in our own [48:10] orders of worship. Um, a question did [48:13] come in. It said, "Do you think much [48:14] about the long-term future of local [48:17] congregations or live in the now?" I was [48:21] challenged recently to live in the [48:22] moment. So, I do wonder what you think [48:25] local church might be in 20, 50, or even [48:27] 100 years. [48:36] And so I heard uh Mark Ellston speak [48:39] recently uh at at the Akran roundt here [48:44] in Ohio and he was talking about the [48:47] number of congregations that will close [48:49] within the next 10 to 20 years and it [48:51] was astounding number like 25% or [48:54] something like that. Um, [48:57] I think um [48:59] I guess now or future um I try not to [49:06] just do either or um but uh live in the [49:11] live in the present maybe with an eye [49:14] towards the future. Uh and um things are [49:18] definitely changing very quickly. Uh it [49:21] feels like uh cycles are cycles of [49:24] change are happening more and more click [49:28] quickly. Future is coming and will be [49:31] here before we know it I guess. Um [49:34] >> but I I think I really um [49:39] focus on this season in the life of the [49:42] church and it seems to be one of great [49:45] change um and just attending to what we [49:48] need to do in the here and now. Um, I [49:51] think that's what we're called to do. [49:54] >> Yeah. [49:56] Yeah. [49:58] >> Um, I I am a person who tries to live in [50:01] the now. So, um, and in 2050, I may or [50:06] may not be here. So, I don't know that I [50:09] think a lot about that. Um but I hope [50:13] that there is still the church and the [50:18] Christian church at that. Um um I tell [50:22] folks who are atheists or agnostic or [50:26] just don't even know what they are. um [50:29] that while you know Christianity has its [50:33] faults at its root um it is a blessing [50:36] and a gift to humanity but we don't as a [50:41] society or a culture even understand [50:44] what those things are and so [50:47] >> um so if I just look at that um that [50:51] it's it's gift to us um I do hope it's [50:56] still there it's just that You know, [50:58] when I was a young man, I wanted to [51:00] point my finger at this preacher or that [51:02] preacher and go bad, bad, bad. Um, and [51:05] throw the baby out with the bathwater, [51:07] as it were. But the re but Christianity [51:11] is not bad. It's it's just how it has [51:14] been uh pre uh uh misused perhaps by [51:20] some and and viewed by those um who [51:25] don't know any different. And so I hope [51:27] that it's still here for sure. [51:30] >> Oh, I love that. Um, you know, I I [51:34] happen to surround myself with a lot of [51:35] folks that aren't believers and so I'm [51:37] I'm constantly having to defend [51:40] Christianity like on a daily and it gets [51:44] harder and harder uh to for me um to [51:49] defend it. And and then I always come at [51:51] it, I'm like, well, is it Christianity [51:53] or is it the people? because it's the [51:56] people that are messing the things up. [51:58] Christianity is a series of of stories [52:01] that show us how people always mess it [52:04] up and that God is with us. God is with [52:07] us [52:08] and and if we and why we jump so quickly [52:11] to the to the oh y'all should hide um [52:15] and be afraid of each other. If you [52:16] think about it that the if people put as [52:19] much stock into Moby Dick and the [52:22] opening lines of that that that writing [52:25] of, you know, Moby Dick, then why do we [52:29] skip past the first line of our [52:31] scriptures from the very beginning? We [52:33] were created good. All was good. [52:38] You can't tell me that Christianity [52:39] isn't anything other than that. And so I [52:42] I lose an argument in my head. I win the [52:44] argument every single time, but my um my [52:48] heathen friends have not come around to [52:50] being Christians, so I might be losing [52:52] the argument all the time. Um with that, [52:55] thinking about living in the moment. [52:59] You know, something you said, you know, [53:01] uh Bentley was like, "Oh, I you know, we [53:03] we have to live in the moment. The [53:05] moment demand, it is the shortest [53:06] increment of time period. [53:09] The future and the past will always be [53:11] there. Our our present will not, right?" [53:13] And so how is it I wonder that we like [53:17] how do we give hope? How do we think [53:19] about the future of faith? Is it just [53:22] Christianity or is it uh the uh the [53:27] salad bowl the the stew of multiple [53:31] faith expressions in order to whatever [53:34] it is. So like how do we work in the [53:36] moment now knowing that the future's [53:38] there for our grandkids, our great [53:41] grandkids, you know, so then when we [53:42] become the ancestors and then my my [53:45] question on that is what does the future [53:48] of faith look like today? How much [53:50] should we be thinking about the future [53:52] of faith today and what does it look [53:54] like? What are your hopes for it? [53:58] >> So um no, I wasn't just speaking about [54:00] Christianity. So, you know, as a person [54:04] who um is a, you know, salad bowl, you [54:08] know, I both understand a lot of [54:10] Buddhist um beliefs and teachings and [54:14] practice those as well as some pegging [54:17] things. You know, I can speak that I [54:19] understand those things, ancestral [54:21] things, and I understand a lot of [54:23] Christian things and probably as well as [54:25] some Jewish things. And so um so I would [54:29] tell folks who are again you might label [54:33] as heathen um I don't know that I don't [54:35] fit that in some days but you know [54:37] driving down the road right that but [54:40] anyway uh I I would say that I try to [54:45] find what the light li what where is the [54:50] light in that where's the love in those [54:53] particular religions and can find a [54:55] through mind through many of them, then [54:58] that is the essence of God for me. And [55:00] so I believe that God is in a lot of [55:03] things, right? As well as God likely is [55:06] in no thing. If God if God created all [55:08] things, it had to be nothing first, at [55:10] least in my belief. So So it's so I I [55:13] would hope that it's it's it's a salad [55:16] bowl kind of thing. Um hope again [55:21] um for me is just trusting in that. I [55:26] don't necessarily say I'm trusting in [55:28] myself, right? Um because I can let [55:31] myself down and certainly have let [55:32] myself and others down and they're [55:34] probably a long line outside of my house [55:36] saying yes, yes, yes, yes, girl, or yes, [55:39] whatever they want to use, right? He can [55:43] do that. But in my heart of hearts, I [55:46] don't believe that God has let me down. [55:48] And God doesn't let anyone down. In [55:50] fact, I'm gonna give you my Star Wars [55:52] Yoda quote. Um or at least somebody from [55:55] Star Wars and say the force is with you [55:57] always, which is the same thing as me [56:00] saying God is with me always. And so, um [56:04] that's where my hope is. and to believe [56:07] that in in all of um the darkness there [56:12] is light somewhere, right? The darkness [56:15] cannot erase the light. And so you have [56:17] to lean into that. And again, I there [56:21] are people who may not know how to find [56:22] it, but there are people who do. And [56:25] that's why relationships are important [56:27] and community is important. [56:30] >> Yeah, I love that. You know, Bentley, [56:32] one of my tattoos says, "The broken [56:34] world waits in darkness for the light [56:36] that is you, [56:38] >> right?" Always thinking that light is [56:40] going to come through. Yeah. George, [56:42] what about you? [56:44] >> Well, I don't know that I can say it any [56:46] better than uh Bentley said it, but I [56:48] think um looking for people that we can [56:51] join hands with [56:54] and work together. um making those [56:57] connections. That's um been one of the [57:00] best things [57:02] of the organizing that's going on right [57:05] now in response to uh issues in the [57:08] nation and the world is to build [57:11] relationships with folks that I didn't [57:14] have um before. And uh the church and [57:18] faith-based communities are uh very [57:22] present in those spaces. Um, and I feel [57:26] like we have a unique role to play, but [57:28] we're not the only ones there. Um, and [57:30] we don't have to be in charge of it all. [57:32] Uh, we can join together. [57:35] >> Look, that part that part Are you all [57:37] open to one more question that has come [57:39] through? [57:40] >> Sure. Sure. [57:41] >> Okay. So, um, will there uh will we be [57:46] there when Christian nationalism [57:48] collapses? Yes. But what do we have to [57:52] offer that they can relate to and [57:54] accept? [57:59] Your answer does not have to be the same [58:00] as mine when it comes to will we be [58:03] there when Christian nationalism [58:04] collapses because we will. [58:06] >> Yeah. I there's no question in my mind [58:08] that we'll be there. We will be there. [58:11] And I think um what we have to offer is [58:16] what we have now, which um to me is an [58:21] an open space um a compassionate space [58:25] where folks are listened to um and um we [58:30] can we can find things um to work on [58:35] together. [58:38] >> Yeah. Um, I will say I hope to be there [58:41] because I don't know my future as a guy [58:45] who kind of tries to stay in the now. [58:47] Um, and what we have to offer is a is [58:52] something that George just said and [58:54] you've likely said Ellie and I've [58:55] already said and that is light because I [58:58] believe that a lot of these things are [58:59] are rooted in fear, right? And and once [59:03] you extrapolate that, you can see that [59:06] that's that's not go of God, right? And [59:11] so God God created us all differently so [59:15] that we could learn how to be together [59:18] because God didn't need a replication of [59:21] all anyway. So I don't need to go into [59:23] that. And so, you know, but again, [59:25] pulling that fear and darkness out and [59:29] helping them to understand that, you [59:31] know, attending to those wounds that [59:33] might be emotional, physical, [59:36] psychological, [59:38] spiritual, could be a lot of different [59:39] things. Attending to those things which [59:42] are again also bringing in the light by [59:45] healing those things. I do believe that [59:47] we can um turn things around, but there [59:51] has to be a willingness and um a trust [59:55] and all that has to be built. [59:58] >> Yeah. Yes. Absolutely. And I was going [60:00] to finish it with like what's one word [60:02] hope or phrase that you could give us, [60:04] you know, one word or phrase that you [60:06] could give us about hope, but I think [60:08] you both have, right? It's about being [60:10] present. This is what I heard from [60:11] y'all. It's about being in the moment as [60:14] much as you can. It's about picking a [60:17] lane, [60:19] staying in that lane, and bringing [60:22] others with you. So that way when you do [60:24] take that step back that you and then [60:27] you can jump back in, right? So bringing [60:28] others with you, being in the current [60:31] present, loving, [60:34] seeing, being present, and knowing that [60:37] we each individually are the light in [60:40] the darkness that happens to surround [60:42] us. Unfortunately, it's so many times, [60:45] right? And so, I want to thank you both [60:47] for joining us today. I want to thank [60:49] our our crowd, our viewers, our [60:52] attendees who have been sharing their [60:55] being very vulnerable in chat today. So, [60:57] thank you all for that, for sharing your [60:59] experiences in chat. I want to thank our [61:02] tech and media team for helping to make [61:05] this and all of our webinars, all of our [61:08] digital offerings possible, whether it [61:09] be in live form or in post viewing form. [61:12] I know they have a lot of work right now [61:14] preparing for our next um possible [61:18] associate general minister that will be [61:20] coming in. So, we're excited to support [61:22] them. We're excited to have you all here [61:24] today. And beloveds, we get to be back [61:26] on Thursday for our next webinar at 3:30 [61:29] p.m. Eastern time. Reports have recently [61:33] shown that approximately 1 in four [61:36] Americans have had a diagnosible mental [61:39] health condition. And with this [61:41] prevalence in mind, we hope that [61:43] discussing mental health experiences in [61:46] a way that normalizes the conversation [61:49] and then normalizes the care we get for [61:52] that. Particularly from the pulpit, we [61:56] believe in the United Church of Christ [61:57] that it is vital to have a healthy and [62:00] holistic spiritual care approach to our [62:04] and with our community. And so the UCCC [62:07] annually recognizes the third Sunday in [62:09] May as mental health Sunday. This year [62:12] that is May 17th, but we're getting you [62:14] ready now. So as congregation attendees, [62:17] as pastors, as lay leaders, whatever it [62:20] is, we'll help to uh resource you with [62:24] mental health Sunday resources, why you [62:27] should host one if you've never done it [62:29] before, and then how do you go about [62:32] planning that service so that all of [62:34] your congregation can feel seen or [62:36] heard. And if you're a congregation [62:38] member, then you can attend this webinar [62:41] to see what it is that you can do to [62:42] invite your clergy, your lay leaders to [62:45] embark and embrace on this day. And so, [62:48] we're going to be joined by the amazing [62:50] Reverend Dr. Sarah Lund, um, who is UCCC [62:53] national staff as well as a couple of [62:55] the board of directors for the UCCC [62:57] mental health network that are going to [62:59] be delving deeply into this topic. And [63:02] so, beloveds, we are so grateful to be [63:04] here with you all virtually today on [63:07] Thursday and for the rest of the weeks [63:09] coming ahead. I hope that you remain to [63:12] be the light in the darkness. And I'd [63:14] like to turn it over to our conversation [63:16] partners today to take us out in a [63:19] benediction. [63:21] I'll offer the benediction that I do [63:23] every Sunday at Pilgrim, which is go [63:26] listening to the still speaking voice of [63:29] God, looking for the face of Christ in [63:32] the faces of people you meet as you work [63:34] for peace and justice and feeling the [63:38] energy and the guidance of the Holy [63:40] Spirit going with you. Amen. [63:45] >> Amen. [63:46] >> Amen. Ashe, thank you beloveds. Thank [63:48] you, George and Bentley, Reverends, [63:50] Doctors, [63:51] the plurals in there. And uh and thank [63:54] you all for joining us. Go be the light [63:56] today. [63:57] >> Thank you. [63:58] >> Thank you. [63:59] >> That's a pleasure. [64:00] >> Yeah. [64:01] >> Thank you, George. [64:03] >> Thank you, Bentley. [64:05] Siblings in Christ, if you were moved by [64:08] this conversation, if what's been [64:10] offered here has helped enhance your [64:12] ministry or has nurtured your soul for [64:15] the journey, please consider donating to [64:18] the annual fund of the United Church of [64:20] Christ by texting UCCC to 41444. [64:26] Your support will help to provide [64:28] programs like this which are an [64:30] essential part of our ministries in the [64:32] United Church of Christ. Thank you for [64:34] your support. Be blessed on your journey [64:38] and know that you are not alone. We are [64:41] holding you in prayer. Amen.  📄 **Full text:** ![[Full Document Contents/Articles/Future of Faith Faith in Chaotic Times.md|Future of Faith: Faith in Chaotic Times by YouTube]] ## Highlights - congregations from across this great nation who have heard and are following the invitation to come into that dreaming space where all of God's creation can be cared for. This is a space where we can know that collective dignity, love, kindness, and respect is honored and how our different perspectives of faith can actually create that better world that we're all hoping for. And so, I invite George and ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01kptw44c2ckrc0pw7ss2ac4v8)) - Tags: 👻 ai highlighted - a space where I could question and push back and all of that. And so in that space in the United Church of Christ religion and I have a unique dance and so I really appreciate it there or here should I say. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And I too, George, grew up Methodist. And and um was a single a single mom in my teens. And so I went to any religious service. ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01kptw44e0waxdbgmyjxm3bpvd)) - Tags: 👻 ai highlighted - theological background with your own. So what we've gotten what we've got to hear is a little bit about your stories about how you came into ministry, then a little bit about your seminary education. I'm thinking about how has that informed you with the communities that you find yourselves in now? Like what is the what do you recognize perhaps is the greatest need or maybe even just the greatest question ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01kptw44gw7xwvpfbgzggtyycj)) - Tags: 👻 ai highlighted - um for your spiritual communities that you find yourselves in now. What is that? I guess I um I feel like I uh should have mentioned that I just recently completed a doctor of ministry from Eden Theological Seminary and I was able to go back for their uh spring convocation uh two weeks ago. So that was wonderful. I see myself as a lifelong learner and ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01kptw44jx3z9rcdjw94a4bvhv)) - Tags: 👻 ai highlighted