Jenn Johnson's Horrid Bethel Defense - CourtneyR.dev's 2nd Brain

Jenn Johnson's Horrid Bethel Defense ![rw-book-cover](https://img.youtube.com/vi/gDAfiS7nUXg/maxresdefault.jpg) 🔗 **Source:** [Jenn Johnson's Horrid Bethel Defense](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDAfiS7nUXg&t=167s) > [!note]+ Document Notes > tags: #bethel-church #discernment #charismatic #worship-music > author: Fighting for the Faith > source: YouTube > reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDAfiS7nUXg&t=167s > date created: 2024-12-28 12:30 > > # 🏷️ Title: Jenn Johnson's Horrid Bethel Defense >  ## 🧰 Action Inbox - [H1] Review Jen Johnson's interview responses for theological accuracy — defending Bethel leadership #discernment - [H2] Examine Bethel's healing theology contradictions — failed healings vs. claimed doctrine #theology - [H3] Analyze syncretistic practices at Bethel — tarot cards, crystals, fire tunnels #biblical-orthodoxy ## 🧭 Table of Contents - [[#📝 Summary]] - [[#📖 Main Content]] - [[#🗒️ Notes]] - [[#📚 References]] - [[#🗣️ Paraphrase]] - [[#📰 Newsletter]] - [[#✅ Action Items]] - [[#🧪 Hypotheses]] - [[#📊 Methodology]] - [[#❓ Questions]] - [[#🔮 Future Research]] - [[#💡 Implications]] - [[#🧠 Learning Styles Assessment]] - [[#📊 Accessibility Assessment]] - [[#🌍 DEIB Assessment]] - [[#✅ Logical Validity]] - [[#🛡️ DARVO Analysis]] - [[#🎯 Conclusion]] ### 🔗 References - [Original Video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDAfiS7nUXg&t=167s) - [Bethel Church Website](https://www.bethel.church) ## 📝 Summary - Jen Johnson (Bethel Music president) gave an interview defending Bethel Church leadership as "trustworthy" - She addressed controversial topics including Bill Johnson's Christology, failed healings, and syncretistic practices - The defense largely avoided direct accountability while emphasizing "good hearts" and intentions - Critics argue her responses demonstrate problematic theology and lack of genuine reform - The interview highlights ongoing concerns about Bethel's departure from biblical orthodoxy ## 📖 Main Content Jen Johnson, president of Bethel Music and daughter-in-law of Bethel Church leader Bill Johnson, recently gave an interview defending the church's leadership amid growing criticism. The interview addressed several controversial areas including questionable Christological statements, failed healing attempts, and the incorporation of New Age practices. Johnson characterized Bethel as "big and messy" but insisted the leaders are "trustworthy people" who are "trying to live their lives according to the Bible." When pressed on specific theological concerns, including Bill Johnson's statements about Jesus performing miracles as a man rather than as God, Johnson claimed these were taken out of context and that her father-in-law would affirm orthodox Christology. Regarding Bethel's healing theology, Johnson maintained their position that "God heals" despite high-profile failures including the death of her mother-in-law Beni Johnson and the unsuccessful "Wake Up Olive" campaign. She argued that failed healings don't change their belief system, though critics note this demonstrates a resistance to theological correction based on observable outcomes. On syncretistic practices like tarot cards and crystals endorsed in Bill Johnson's book "The Physics of Heaven," Johnson acknowledged "thin lines" but emphasized God looking at the heart over actions, suggesting these practices might be acceptable if done with good intentions. ## 🗒️ Notes #### ⏱️ [02:47](https://youtu.be/gDAfiS7nUXg?t=167) — [H1] Jen Johnson defends Bethel leadership as trustworthy - Key idea: Johnson claims Bethel has "trustworthy leaders" despite controversies - Evidence: "They are very good, trustworthy people trying to live their lives according to the Bible" #### ⏱️ [05:15](https://youtu.be/gDAfiS7nUXg?t=315) — [H2] Addressing the Holy Spirit/genie comparison controversy - Key idea: Johnson previously compared the Holy Spirit to Aladdin's blue genie - Evidence: Referenced as example of problematic statements from Bethel leadership #### ⏱️ [08:30](https://youtu.be/gDAfiS7nUXg?t=510) — [H1] Failed healings challenge Bethel's theology - Key idea: Deaths of Beni Johnson and baby Olive contradict "God always heals" doctrine - Evidence: "When those things weren't working, you have to start questioning your bad theology" #### ⏱️ [12:45](https://youtu.be/gDAfiS7nUXg?t=765) — [H2] Biblical perspective on sickness and healing - Key idea: Scripture shows God allows sickness as consequence of sin in the world - Evidence: "God said, 'Who is it that created the death, the mute, the blind? Was it not I?'" #### ⏱️ [15:20](https://youtu.be/gDAfiS7nUXg?t=920) — [H1] Johnson admits organizational problems - Key idea: Acknowledges "weird things" happen at various leadership levels - Evidence: "There are definitely some very weird things that have happened from people who are in the lower levels, especially of leadership" #### ⏱️ [18:10](https://youtu.be/gDAfiS7nUXg?t=1090) — [H2] Bill Johnson's Christology controversy - Key idea: Questions about whether Jesus performed miracles as God or just as man - Evidence: Johnson claims Bill would affirm Jesus as "fully God and fully man" despite past statements #### ⏱️ [22:35](https://youtu.be/gDAfiS7nUXg?t=1355) — [H1] Healing theology remains unchanged despite failures - Key idea: Bethel maintains healing doctrine regardless of contradictory outcomes - Evidence: "We believe that God heals and that's what the Bible says... it doesn't change our belief system" #### ⏱️ [25:40](https://youtu.be/gDAfiS7nUXg?t=1540) — [H2] Syncretistic practices defended with "heart" emphasis - Key idea: Johnson justifies questionable practices by focusing on intentions - Evidence: "God looks at the heart more than anything else and our desire to know him" #### ⏱️ [28:15](https://youtu.be/gDAfiS7nUXg?t=1695) — [H3] Biblical worship standards ignored - Key idea: God rejects improper worship regardless of good intentions - Evidence: Nadab and Abihu offered "strange fire" and were struck dead despite presumed good motives #### ⏱️ [32:20](https://youtu.be/gDAfiS7nUXg?t=1940) — [H2] Hearing God's voice through Scripture - Key idea: God speaks through His written Word, not subjective impressions - Evidence: "In these last days he has spoken to us in his son" (Hebrews 1:2) #### ⏱️ [35:45](https://youtu.be/gDAfiS7nUXg?t=2145) — [H3] Prophecy misunderstood at Bethel - Key idea: Biblical prophecy often contained warnings and judgment, not just encouragement - Evidence: "Most of the time it was actually really bad. Like, 'Hey, stop doing this or God is going to do this to you'" #### ⏱️ [38:30](https://youtu.be/gDAfiS7nUXg?t=2310) — [H2] Worship music purpose confused - Key idea: Worship should be directed to God, not for human edification - Evidence: "The singing should not be for the body of Christ. The singing should be to God" ## 📚 References - [Bethel Church Official Website](https://www.bethel.church/) - [Bill Johnson's "When Heaven Invades Earth"](https://www.amazon.com/When-Heaven-Invades-Earth/dp/0768422388) - [Hebrews 1:1-2 on God's revelation](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews%201%3A1-2&version=NASB) ## 🗣️ Paraphrase - Jen Johnson defended Bethel Church leadership as trustworthy despite numerous theological controversies and failed healing claims - She acknowledged organizational problems but minimized them by emphasizing good intentions rather than doctrinal accuracy - When confronted with specific theological errors, Johnson deflected by claiming statements were taken out of context or by appealing to heart motives over biblical standards ## 📰 Newsletter This week we examined Jen Johnson's recent defense of Bethel Church leadership amid growing criticism. Her interview reveals concerning patterns of theological deflection and resistance to correction that WordPress community leaders should note when evaluating partnerships or endorsements. Key takeaways for discernment: - Good intentions don't justify unbiblical practices or theology - Organizations that resist correction after clear failures show problematic governance - Vague appeals to "heart" motives often mask doctrinal compromise For sound theological resources, consider checking established seminaries and biblically grounded ministries rather than movements that blend Christian terminology with questionable practices. Resources: [Grace to You](https://www.gty.org/), [Ligonier Ministries](https://www.ligonier.org/), [The Gospel Coalition](https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/) ## ✅ Action Items #### DevRel - Developer advocacy: Create clear theological standards for partnership evaluations - Education: Develop discernment training for identifying doctrinal red flags - Community management: Establish guidelines for addressing theological concerns in forums #### WordPress - Community: Provide resources for biblical discernment in ministry partnerships - Training: Develop courses on identifying and avoiding theological compromise - Documentation: Create guidance for evaluating religious content and partnerships ## 🧪 Hypotheses - Organizations that refuse correction after clear doctrinal failures will continue in theological error - Leaders who emphasize intentions over biblical accuracy will gradually drift further from orthodoxy - Movements that blend Christian terminology with non-Christian practices will become increasingly syncretic - Appeals to subjective spiritual experiences will eventually undermine biblical authority ### 📊 Methodology - Track Bethel's theological statements over time to identify patterns of drift or correction - Compare Bethel's healing claims with documented outcomes to assess accuracy - Analyze Johnson's responses for logical consistency and biblical grounding - Monitor whether criticism leads to genuine reform or increased defensiveness ### ❓ Questions - How should churches respond when affiliated organizations promote questionable theology? - What role should documented failures play in evaluating theological movements? - How can believers distinguish between legitimate spiritual gifts and manipulative practices? ### 🔮 Future Research - Long-term tracking of Bethel's theological evolution and public statements - Analysis of similar movements that blend Christianity with New Age practices - Investigation of effective methods for helping people leave problematic religious movements ### 💡 Implications - Practice: Churches need clear standards for evaluating ministry partnerships and guest speakers - Policy: Religious organizations should have accountability mechanisms for addressing doctrinal concerns - Education: Believers need training in biblical discernment to identify theological red flags - Security: Vulnerable individuals may be harmed by movements that make unfulfilled promises about healing ### 🧠 Learning Styles Assessment Reading level estimate: 10th Grade Level #### 👀 Visual learners - Present: Video format with speaker on screen - Improve: Charts comparing biblical vs. Bethel teachings, timeline of controversies #### 🔊 Aural learners - Present: Audio commentary and discussion format - Improve: Podcast version with cleaner audio, discussion questions #### 🗣️ Verbal learners - Present: Clear definitions of theological terms, biblical quotations - Improve: Glossary of terms, comparison of different theological positions #### 🧩 Kinesthetic learners - Present: Encouragement to look up biblical passages - Improve: Worksheet for evaluating theological claims, practical discernment exercises #### 🧠 Logical learners - Present: Point-by-point analysis of Johnson's responses - Improve: Logical flowcharts for evaluating theological movements, cause-and-effect diagrams #### 🧑‍🤝‍🧑 Social learners - Present: Live chat interaction and community discussion - Improve: Discussion groups, peer review of theological evaluations #### 🧘‍♀️ Solitary learners - Present: Individual reflection opportunities - Improve: Personal study guides, self-assessment tools for discernment #### 🌿 Naturalistic learners - Present: Examples from nature illustrating spiritual principles - Improve: More analogies from natural world to explain theological concepts ### 📊 Accessibility Assessment #### Screen reader semantics - Present: Video has spoken content accessible to screen readers - Improve: Transcript with proper heading structure, image descriptions #### Keyboard navigation - Present: Standard YouTube player controls - Improve: Chapter markers for easy navigation, keyboard shortcuts #### Contrast and readability - Present: Clear speaker visibility - Improve: High contrast text overlay for key points, adjustable playback speed #### Text resizing and reflow - Present: YouTube's built-in accessibility features - Improve: Responsive transcript layout, scalable text overlays #### Media and captions - Present: Video format with clear audio - Improve: Professional captions, downloadable transcript #### Forms and interactions - Present: Standard comment system - Improve: Accessible discussion forum, clear feedback mechanisms ### 🌍 DEIB Assessment #### Cultural breadth - Present: Addresses issues affecting global Christian community - Improve: Examples from diverse cultural contexts, international perspectives #### Inclusive language - Present: Uses accessible terminology for theological concepts - Improve: Plain-language summaries, avoided unnecessary jargon #### Neurodiversity support - Present: Clear structure with timestamp markers - Improve: Visual content organization, consistent formatting #### Representation - Present: Discusses issues affecting various church communities - Improve: Diverse voices in theological evaluation, varied perspectives #### Psychological safety - Present: Respectful tone despite disagreement - Improve: Trauma-informed approach for those harmed by problematic movements ### ✅ Logical Validity #### Strong reasoning - Deductive strength: If God rejects improper worship (premise), and Bethel practices improper worship (premise), then God rejects Bethel practices (conclusion) - strong deductive argument - Inductive strength: Multiple examples of failed healings suggest pattern of theological error - moderate inductive strength - Causal reasoning: Failed prophecies indicate false prophetic ministry - clear causal connection - Analogical strength: Comparison to Nadab/Abihu effectively illustrates principle #### Fallacies - Ad hominem: Occasional personal attacks rather than addressing arguments directly - Straw man: Some characterizations of Bethel may overstate their positions #### Tone of voice - Overall tone: Passionate but respectful criticism with genuine concern for truth and people harmed by theological error ### 🛡️ DARVO Analysis - Deny: Johnson denies organizational problems are systemic, claiming they're isolated incidents - Attack: Suggests critics take statements "out of context" rather than addressing substance - Reverse victim/offender: Portrays Bethel as misunderstood rather than addressing harm to followers - Emotional cues and rhetoric: Appeals to "good hearts" and intentions to deflect from doctrinal accountability ## 🎯 Conclusion Jen Johnson's defense of Bethel Church reveals a pattern of theological deflection rather than genuine accountability. Her emphasis on good intentions over biblical accuracy, resistance to correction despite documented failures, and defense of syncretistic practices demonstrates the concerning trajectory of this influential movement. Christians and church leaders need robust biblical discernment to evaluate such movements and protect vulnerable believers from theological harm. ## 🧱 Refactor Appendix ### 📚 Literature Split Pad Purpose: Stage CEE units that become Literature notes. Split level: H3 ### [H1] Bethel leadership defended despite documented problems > [!quote] [Jenn Johnson's Horrid Bethel Defense](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDAfiS7nUXg&t=167s) by [[Fighting for the Faith]] via [[YouTube]]. Published 2024. Accessed 2024-12-28. > "They are very good, trustworthy people trying to live their lives according to the Bible." Johnson's defense contradicts documented theological errors and organizational problems. [view highlight](https://youtu.be/gDAfiS7nUXg?t=167#H1) #xref #articleseed ID:rw_bethel_defense ### [H2] Failed healings don't change Bethel's theology > [!quote --- ## Full Transcript [00:00] And this brings up another article that [00:01] came out not too long ago and I forgot [00:03] all about this. I didn't have time to [00:04] cover this when we did this. Jen Johnson [00:06] gets out and basically tries to say that [00:09] Bethel leaders are trustworthy. And they [00:11] quote saying here, "Bethel is a is big [00:14] and messy and has trustworthy leaders." [00:16] Obviously, that's not the case, Jen [00:18] Johnson. Jen Johnson, if you don't [00:19] remember, is the same woman who tried to [00:21] compare the Holy Spirit to the genie [00:24] from Aladdin, saying that [00:27] he's blue and all these other things and [00:29] whatnot. It's [00:31] Uh [00:32] really, really sad. [00:36] Let's just read this part here. So, [00:37] worship pastor and singer Jen Johnson, [00:39] president of Bethel Music, answered [00:41] tough questions this week about the [00:42] organization of Bethel Church and the [00:44] charismatic congregation led by her [00:45] father-in-law Bill Johnson. [00:47] Uh [00:48] Worship Ministry Training founder, blah [00:49] blah blah blah blah, asked Jen to [00:51] address concerns that some worship [00:52] leaders have about using Bethel songs [00:54] because Bethel, obviously, is getting a [00:56] lot of backlash from this. People don't [00:58] want to play their songs anymore because [00:59] they're starting to wake up, [01:01] which is a good thing. [01:02] Which is a good thing. [01:08] Today, April 10th, Jen Johnson released [01:10] her single "Mad at God." It stems from [01:12] raw feelings following the 2022 death of [01:15] her mother-in-law, Beni Johnson. [01:17] Uh this week, Jen Johnson, 43, also [01:19] announced that her first solo project, [01:20] Happy, comes out on May 22nd. This [01:23] brings up another thing, especially with [01:25] the whole, you know, word of faith and [01:27] the crazy part of the charismatics and [01:30] what they teach at Bethel. [01:33] They believe in healing. They believe it [01:34] is God's will to heal all the time. And [01:37] I'm not trying to make light of a tragic [01:39] situation um [01:41] at all. It's a tragedy and it's very, [01:44] very sad, especially when somebody dies. [01:46] I believe Beni Johnson died of cancer. [01:48] Very, very sad. So, I promise you I'm [01:50] not trying to make light at any type of [01:53] tragedy whatsoever. [01:55] But you [01:55] really think it would have opened eyes [01:59] when she wasn't healed. [02:02] You know? [02:03] Or even go back to when Bethel had that [02:05] wake up Olive campaign where they were [02:06] trying to raise a poor little girl from [02:08] the dead [02:09] who died very, very young. [02:12] When those things weren't working, when [02:14] those things didn't happen, [02:16] you have to start questioning your bad [02:18] theology in which you believe it is [02:20] always God's will to heal. [02:23] God in Exodus, when Moses is talking to [02:27] the burning bush, God said, "Who is it [02:29] that created the death, the mute, the [02:30] blind? [02:32] Was it not I?" [02:34] God does [02:37] create sickness. God does allow for [02:40] sickness [02:43] on this side of Earth. [02:45] There is sin in this Earth, all going [02:48] back to Adam and Eve. [02:49] Sickness, disease, things of that nature [02:51] is a result of sin being in the world. [02:53] Doesn't mean somebody personally sinned [02:55] and that's why they got sick. We don't [02:57] know that. I'm not going to presume upon [02:58] God. But we do know that sin is in or [03:01] sickness and disease and all these [03:03] things are in the world because of sin. [03:05] It's just a reality that we are going to [03:07] deal with until Christ come back Christ [03:09] comes back and makes us all new again. [03:12] We need to remember that as Christians. [03:14] One day, this isn't our final resting [03:16] place. Healing's not going to be We are [03:17] going to die one day. [03:19] Unless Christ returns, we are going to [03:21] die one day. [03:23] But in his return, we will receive brand [03:25] new bodies, [03:26] perfect, sinless, [03:28] no sin, new heaven, new Earth. It'll be [03:31] amazing. [03:33] Uh the article goes on to continue [03:35] saying since 2000, Johnson and her [03:36] husband, Brian, served as the blah blah [03:38] blah blah blah. [03:41] An honest interview. I I've never I have [03:43] not watched this video. I just saw the [03:45] stuff that came out about it. [03:47] Well, Jen, thank you for being here. I [03:49] am, to be honest, a bit nervous about [03:52] That's ridiculously long. We're not [03:53] going to be able to listen to all that. [03:55] Um But it looks like it is split up into [03:58] chapters. Bethel is a do. [04:02] Was Jesus God while on Earth? I brought [04:05] up baby Olive and Beni. Tarot cards. I'm [04:08] going to have Before I I might have to [04:10] do a thorough review on this. [04:12] Cuz these are things I'm curious to how [04:14] they skirt around them cuz they are [04:16] very, very weighty topics. [04:18] Um [04:20] Let's just read the article for now. [04:24] Before we do, I do want to get your [04:25] comments. Nigel says their lack of [04:27] reverence [04:28] and godly fear is shocking to me and it [04:30] is to me, too. [04:32] You're absolutely right. [04:34] Elaine said, "Trustworthy? She must be [04:36] kidding." [04:38] Cathy said, "God has a lot of merciful [04:40] restraint not to strike a lot of people [04:43] with lightning. Talk about the Holy [04:45] Spirit that way." Yeah, exactly. [04:48] Very, very sad. [04:51] Goes on to continue saying here, "Staff [04:54] members love Let's just read it from up [04:56] here. Jen Johnson, who's been a part of [04:58] Bethel Church since age 16, told Alex, [05:00] 'It's a very big organization with [05:02] people of various beliefs and good [05:04] hearts and good intentions. We don't [05:07] know the heart, but kind of just a lot [05:09] of different things that necessarily we [05:11] wouldn't all [05:13] uh we wouldn't all on the leadership [05:15] level vouch for.'" [05:17] Sounds like covering up for leadership [05:19] just from that little excerpt. "Staff [05:21] members lovingly referred to Bethel [05:23] Church as a zoo because there's a lot of [05:25] life and a lot of mess at Jen, adding, [05:28] 'I definitely have seen a beautiful, [05:29] healthy correction along the years.' [05:31] Johnson expressed her gratitude for the [05:33] heart of the church, saying she knows [05:34] leaders well. They are very good, [05:35] trustworthy people. They are very human [05:37] and trying to live their lives according [05:38] to the Bible. Well, obviously, your [05:39] prophetic ministry leader wasn't. [05:45] One of the beautiful things though, and [05:46] I'd be remiss to say this, is because I [05:49] too am a sinner [05:51] but a sinner saved by grace. And even [05:53] those people, no matter what you've [05:55] done, [05:56] you can be forgiven by Jesus Christ. [05:58] That's one of the beautiful things we [05:59] need to remember. "Uh we definitely [06:00] don't all believe the same things at [06:01] Bethel," she continued, "and there are [06:03] definitely some very weird things that [06:04] have happened from people who are in the [06:06] lower levels, especially of leadership, [06:09] but also higher, myself included, [06:10] because we're all human." [06:12] So, I wanted to say everybody. [06:13] Johnson, who said she's not a [06:15] theologian, obviously, [06:16] uh she needs to read R.C. Sproul's book [06:18] of Everyone's a Theologian. Uh then [06:20] tackled faith-related questions that [06:22] Alex pulled from Bill Johnson's [06:24] material, citing controversial chapter [06:25] in Bill's book When Heaven Invades [06:27] Earth, um and asked Jen Johnson if Jesus [06:30] was fully God while on Earth or just a [06:31] man fully yielded to God. And that was a [06:34] controversial statement that Bill [06:36] Johnson said he was going to correct and [06:39] change but never actually did, from my [06:41] understanding. He [06:43] uh went on to double down. He He's like [06:45] flip-flopping, depending on who he's [06:47] talking to, from what I saw about that. [06:49] She responded and said, "I believe that [06:50] Jesus was fully God and fully man. And [06:52] if you read out our statement of faith [06:53] on the website, it says the same thing." [06:55] When she asked if her father-in-law's [06:56] beliefs might have shifted through the [06:57] years, Jen replied, "I think if you were [06:59] going to talk to him right now, he would [07:01] tell you Jesus was fully God and fully [07:02] man. People often take one-liners out of [07:05] context." That's really hard to take [07:07] what what Bill Johnson said there was [07:09] that Jesus did not perform his miracles [07:12] as God, but he performed them as a man [07:15] in right relationship with God. [07:17] Basically, denying the deity of Christ [07:21] when performing miracles. Why? Because [07:23] it feeds into Bethel's theology. Bethel [07:25] believes that you, everyone, can perform [07:28] these supernatural miracles. And if [07:30] Jesus was performing these miracles as [07:32] God, the God-man, not just only a man, [07:36] then that means we can't do that. Why [07:39] did Jesus perform the miracles that he [07:40] did? [07:41] It was to show that he was the son of [07:45] God. We need to remember that in [07:46] scriptures. [07:47] These healings and all these things that [07:49] he did were foretold all the way back [07:52] into the Old Testament. He did those [07:54] things to prove his Messiahship, that he [07:57] is the son of God. [08:00] He didn't do it to show us that we can [08:02] all do these things. Otherwise, we'd all [08:03] be doing it. [08:08] I hate how church leaders does this on [08:10] their website. You have to like click a [08:11] new note and then it goes to the "Uh we [08:13] believe that God heals," says Bethel [08:15] Music Jen Johnson. Alex also asked Jen [08:17] Johnson about concerns he's had [08:18] regarding Bethel's beliefs about healing [08:20] and prophecy. Specifically, he asked her [08:22] if the church claims that if we're not [08:23] healed, it's because of a lack of faith, [08:25] citing the death of Beni Johnson and [08:27] 2-year-old Olive, the daughter of a [08:29] Bethel worship leader. Those tragedies [08:31] didn't shift the church's viewpoint, [08:33] according to Jen Johnson. [08:35] "Uh we believe that God heals and that's [08:37] what the Bible says," she said. "So, [08:39] when something doesn't happen, we don't [08:40] necessarily try to look inward to our [08:42] own self on why it didn't happen," Jen [08:44] said. "But more importantly, we stay [08:45] anchored and grounded in the God uh who [08:47] is and [08:49] who he says he is and what he does, and [08:51] that is that he heals." Well, obviously, [08:54] he didn't heal in those situations. And [08:57] I'm not saying it's because of a lack of [08:58] faith or anything like that. Once again, [09:00] I'm not trying to turn a tragedy into a [09:02] talking point [09:04] uh and diminish what happened. This [09:06] tragic. It's horrible. [09:08] But it should make you look back and [09:10] reflect, maybe we were wrong in these [09:13] areas. Maybe we don't have our theology [09:16] all together. Maybe we need to go back [09:18] and actually read the Bible for what it [09:21] says. [09:23] Very sad. [09:25] Elaine said, "I feel fearful for Jen [09:27] Johnson and other leadership at Bethel." [09:29] And I that I would, too. [09:32] Johnson continued, "It's very difficult [09:33] when something doesn't happen that you [09:36] were praying for and hoped for. And [09:38] we've all lived that in our faith, but [09:41] it doesn't change our belief system. Why [09:43] didn't someone get healed? I don't know, [09:45] but I'm going to pray for the next [09:46] person that needs a miracle. It doesn't [09:47] change the foundation of our faith when [09:49] something doesn't go to plan. We just [09:50] have to surrender it." [09:55] Yes. [09:57] We we don't go back and go why God did [10:00] you not heal this person? You just know [10:02] that God is sovereign over all things, [10:03] but that's not what you're saying. You [10:05] go on to say that God heals. [10:08] And that he heals. Obviously, he didn't [10:10] heal in those situations. [10:13] There's a lot of ministry in this [10:14] Christian walk of ours and there's a lot [10:16] of surrender that gets involved in [10:17] going. [10:18] Uh God, I don't understand this, but I [10:20] know who you are. I'm going to stay [10:22] anchored and grounded to that. Pray for [10:23] the sick, cast out demons. Uh cast out [10:26] demons. I'm going to stay connected to [10:28] what your word says. Even though I might [10:30] not have seen something happened that I [10:33] prayed for. It sounds like to me you [10:35] need to go back and recheck your [10:36] theology. Next, Alex asked about the [10:39] syncretism or using practices not found [10:41] in the Bible including aura readings, [10:43] crystals, fire tunnels, and destiny [10:44] cards, which are all things by the way [10:46] that [10:47] um Bill Johnson, the psychic it says [10:49] here, endorsed in his book The Physics [10:51] of Heaven, uh which [10:53] poised that the New Age movement teaches [10:56] some key truths. [10:58] Um [10:59] Not only that, uh you know, the these [11:02] things were practiced at Bethel and [11:03] talked about especially in Bethel School [11:05] of Supernatural Ministry. [11:07] She says here in her response, "There's [11:09] a lot of thin lines, but at the same [11:10] time there is a very gracious God," [11:13] replied Jen. "I think God looks at the [11:14] heart more than anything else and our [11:16] desire to know him and to be like him [11:19] and to follow him and to help others [11:21] come to know him. Her father-in-law [11:22] might not have been careful enough when [11:24] endorsing a person." So, she tiptoed [11:26] around that question. Hey, [11:28] you know, the the heart does matter. God [11:30] looks at the heart, not so much of the [11:32] action. I think that is seen in the [11:34] Bible, but you also need to remember [11:37] that God is not accepting of blasphemous [11:39] forms of worship at all. [11:42] At all, period. What happened with Cain [11:45] and Abel? God accepted Abel's sacrifice. [11:49] God rejected Cain's sacrifice. Why? [11:53] Because it was not in accordance with [11:54] God. [11:55] Bible doesn't mention where their their [11:57] their their their their heart was and [11:59] all these other things, but Cain's [12:02] sacrifice was not accepted. Why? Because [12:05] it was the work of his hands. He was [12:06] trying [12:08] and this is what I infer. He was trying [12:10] to basically earn God's favor through [12:13] works. That was not pleasing to God, not [12:15] acceptable to God. Go back to Nadab and [12:18] Abihu [12:19] in the Old Testament with [12:22] Aaron's sons. [12:23] They offered a strange fire to God that [12:26] was not in accordance with what God had [12:29] set forth. He was very specific on while [12:31] the offerings were supposed to go, the [12:33] burnt offerings, things of this nature, [12:34] and they offered up a strange fire to [12:38] God. God rejected that worship. Not only [12:41] that, they were drunk when they did it, [12:42] and [12:44] they were stricken dead because of that. [12:48] Very very [12:49] very [12:51] wrong. [12:53] God is not accepting [12:56] of all forms of worship just because [12:58] your intentions are good. [13:02] God cares very very I mean, the why else [13:04] would he say [13:05] Jesus say in the uh New Testament uh [13:07] talking about, "Hey, if you if you have [13:09] something against your brother, leave [13:10] your leave your offering at the altar, [13:12] go, make right with your brother, then [13:14] come back." [13:16] Don't show up when you have something in [13:18] your heart against somebody else. [13:21] That's not going to be acceptable and [13:22] pleasing to God. [13:26] Elaine said, "Word of Faith and NAR folk [13:28] will not admit that they could have any [13:30] of their theology wrong. If we don't [13:31] agree, then we are the ones with the [13:33] lack of faith according to their [13:35] theology." And Elaine would know. [13:37] Elaine, Kathy, so many of you people [13:39] have come out of the Word of Faith NAR [13:40] world. You know this. [13:42] Uh Elaine said, "Been there, done that, [13:44] have the t-shirt, unfortunately." But [13:46] praise God he dragged you out of that, [13:48] Elaine. Praise God for that. [13:51] Uh goes on to say, "One of Johnson's [13:53] biggest passions," she said, "is to be [13:54] open to the following following the [13:56] voice of God, to know him by his word, [13:59] and to follow him by his spirit and his [14:01] voice, no matter what it looks like." [14:02] Okay, how do you hear the voice of God? [14:03] You read your Bible. [14:05] That's how we know the ver [14:07] Hebrews even says it back in the day [14:09] that they had um [14:11] what's the passage? Let's just pull it [14:13] up while we're here cuz I don't want to [14:14] misquote it, but Hebrews chapter 1 I [14:16] think makes that absolutely abundantly [14:19] clear. [14:21] And you can watch me type as I do this [14:22] because I [14:24] oops. [14:29] Mhm. Here it is. God, after he spoke [14:33] long ago to the fathers in the [14:35] in the prophets in many portions and in [14:37] many ways, [14:38] what does it say? He still does it? No, [14:40] it doesn't say he still does that. It [14:42] says, "In these last days he has spoken [14:45] to us in his son, whom he appointed as [14:47] the heir of all things through whom the [14:49] whole also he made the world." [14:52] This is how God talks to us through his [14:54] son. And his son is all over the Bible. [14:58] That is how we hear the voice of God by [15:01] reading our Bible. You want to hear [15:02] God's voice? Open up the Bible and read [15:06] it. [15:09] None of this other craziness that we [15:11] see. [15:13] Um she goes on to say that even if [15:16] people think you're crazy that you fall [15:18] that you follow, Johnson said, kind of [15:19] like that scene in Chronicles of Narnia [15:21] where Lucy follows Aslan in the forest [15:23] because she seems uh it it was just [15:25] called the Bible, not a movie from a [15:29] C.S. Lewis book. "Some weird practices [15:31] do cross the line," admitted Johnson, [15:33] "but for the most part people's hearts [15:34] are in a really good place. People can [15:36] find God in science, nature, and sound, [15:38] and even in colors," she said, "with the [15:40] key being whether" I I don't think [15:41] you're going to find God in a tarot card [15:43] reading. Obviously, God can reveal [15:45] himself through any means, so I don't [15:46] want to discredit that, but these people [15:48] will believe that these are God-honoring [15:50] things, and that's the difference. It's [15:51] not a God-honoring thing. It's a sin. [15:53] It's wrong. [15:56] Johnson also emphasized the importance [15:58] of accountability and checks and [15:59] balances amongst her leadership. Johnson [16:01] shared that she grew up in a really [16:02] healthy [16:03] in a really healthy view of prophecy of [16:04] encouraging, exhorting people, and [16:06] helping people bring Was Was prophecy [16:08] always exhorting [16:10] and helping and encouraging? [16:13] No. No, most of the time it was actually [16:15] really bad. Like, "Hey, stop doing this [16:18] or God is going to do this to you." And [16:20] it was not a good thing. [16:22] Look at all the different prophecies [16:24] that we see inside the Bible. How many [16:26] of these are going to be good things? [16:29] But for some reason, and this is this is [16:32] all over the NAR world, they don't [16:34] believe in negative prophecies or [16:35] anything like that, or at least they [16:37] downplay it, and they only encourage [16:38] prophecies that are encouraging, [16:40] exhorting, and helping bring people into [16:42] God's doing and what he is saying. When [16:45] asked about failed prophecies, she said, [16:47] "What matters is people's heart and [16:48] obedience," going back to that cop-out. [16:50] Obviously, she Listen, why would they do [16:52] this? This just makes them look even [16:54] dumber to have her answer these [16:55] questions. [16:57] A great phrase that they teach us at [17:00] Bethel is, "I'm learning the voice of [17:01] God and I'm practicing hearing the voice [17:03] of God." How about you just read your [17:05] Bible? [17:06] Read your Bible. [17:08] Uh [17:09] Pointing at the importance of humility, [17:11] God wants us to risk hearing him. How [17:13] dare you presume God wants us to risk [17:17] hearing him? [17:19] Where'd she pull that from? That's not [17:21] from the Bible. I promise you that. [17:24] Oh my gosh. [17:28] Sherry said, "Sorry, I'm late in joining [17:30] the comments." Good to see you, family, [17:32] and blessings. Always nice to have you [17:33] on here, Sherry. [17:34] Um [17:36] Nigel jumped in said, "God reaching [17:38] people stuck in the NAR Word of Faith [17:40] cults is him saving the uttermost. If he [17:44] can save them, he can save anyone." Amen [17:47] to that, Sherry. Agreed. Sorry, I'm [17:49] getting pop-ups here on my phone. [17:52] Oh, it looks like a bunch of people's [17:53] power's out at my work. Uh we got a work [17:55] chat, so [17:57] uh [17:58] fun times in Oklahoma. [18:00] Praise God power's not out over here. Uh [18:02] continuing on, it says, uh [18:04] she said he's more concerned about our [18:06] obedience than our failure. [18:09] That sounds like an oxy oxymoron. If [18:11] you're obedient and read his word and do [18:12] what it says and don't go outside those [18:14] bounds. [18:16] Obviously, God doesn't want us to make a [18:17] mess of people's lives, but sadly that's [18:19] what Bethel has been doing. [18:24] She goes on to address the worship [18:25] leaders part here, said, "Basically, you [18:28] know, [18:28] should people continue to support Bethel [18:30] music?" Goes on to say, um Bethel Music [18:34] President Jen Johnson said the two [18:35] organizations are quote financially [18:37] separate. Sure. [18:39] Uh with royalties going to the worship [18:41] leaders and songwriters who serve at the [18:43] eight or nine different churches. I [18:45] don't see that as financially separate. [18:48] Just because it's a separate name on [18:51] there doesn't mean the money's going to [18:52] separate people. Um [18:55] So, it's not just one church that's a [18:57] part of it, but Bethel Church is just [18:59] where it's based from. Johnson said at [19:01] Bethel Music, "The Lord has called us to [19:02] serve the movement and the group of [19:03] people, local community, we're still in [19:05] faithful serving the people of God." [19:09] As for what to say to worship leaders, [19:11] Johnson expressed gratitude for their [19:12] ministries. "My life was changed going [19:14] up in church with people of God singing [19:15] praises to God. There's just nothing [19:17] like it. It's the best thing you can do [19:18] with your life if you're a musician, [19:20] worship leader, or sound guy," said [19:21] Johnson, "is to give your time, your [19:23] heart, and your efforts gifts [19:25] to the house of God and the people of [19:26] God." Johnson said, "How about just [19:28] worship uh Jesus or Oh my gosh. [19:32] Johnson said she and her songwriting [19:34] team quote ask the Lord what he's saying [19:37] from his word and by his spirit and then [19:39] craft that into a song for the body of [19:41] Christ for edification and exhortation [19:42] and the purification of God's people." [19:46] Their music does not purify people. [19:52] Oh my gosh. [19:53] Um and the singing should not be [19:58] for the body of Christ. [20:00] The singing should be to God. [20:02] When we sing [20:04] praises, praise and worship music inside [20:06] church, [20:07] it should be to God. It's not to the [20:11] people. It's to God. Who cares how it [20:14] makes you feel? Yes, do I get I am trust [20:17] me, I am not an unemotional person. I am [20:20] very emotional during praise and worship [20:22] services at church and things of that [20:23] nature and I'm over there and the older [20:25] I get it seems the more I do it. I am [20:27] crying my eyes out because some lyrics [20:29] are just so beautiful and I'm just [20:31] praising God. It is okay [20:34] if praising God gives you emotion, [20:36] but it's not for you. [20:39] The praise is for God. You don't write [20:42] praise and worship songs for humans. You [20:45] write praise and worship songs for God. [20:49] She goes on to say she's thankful for [20:50] the global body of Christ and she said [20:52] and how God is moving in different [20:54] denominations. [20:58] Sherry said preach him. Their music does [21:00] not purify people. [21:03] Uh Leslie Good jumped in said I can't [21:05] get through the title of the Jen Johnson [21:07] comment that they were trustworthy. I [21:09] just laughed and scrolled by. The blue [21:11] genie and angels farting was just the [21:13] final nope for me. [21:15] Oh my goodness. [21:17] It would be for me too. It would [21:18] absolutely be for me too. [21:22] Let's continue on going. Uh Johnson [21:25] continued one of the biggest privileges [21:26] of my life is getting to travel and be a [21:28] part of those different expressions and [21:29] maybe we believe slightly different [21:31] things but that's just the details at [21:33] the end of it. We're not going to be all [21:34] right when [21:35] we get to heaven. [21:38] Jesus is going to be like you were great [21:39] here, missed it there, love your heart. [21:43] It seems like she just covers it up with [21:45] that every single time. So when people [21:47] stumble over belief it breaks my heart a [21:50] bit. Obviously there are some big things [21:52] there are some non-negotiables in the [21:53] word of God. Yeah, and you're not [21:55] reading. [21:57] Johnson concluded by saying Bethel music [21:58] uses lyrics to direct people's eyes to [22:00] Jesus [22:01] of who he is, what he's doing, and who [22:05] we are through him. That's our goal. [22:07] That's to connect people to Jesus. Your [22:10] goal should be to give praise to God. [22:11] That's the whole point [22:13] of praise and worship music is to give [22:15] praise to God. It's not for the people, [22:17] it's for God. [22:20] Cathy said so many of the songs are very [22:22] me oriented. And like I said, I don't [22:25] believe [22:28] I do believe that you can give praise [22:29] and worship to God through songs that [22:32] talk about the great things that God has [22:33] done in your life. I don't think there's [22:35] anything wrong with that. [22:38] But it does get to a point where it [22:39] really gets me me me, I I I. [22:43] Where is it about God? [22:45] Or you're just singing about the good [22:46] feelings you get. Like I said, I I'm not [22:49] so hardline where I be like it has to be [22:51] zero I's or me's or anything like that [22:54] in there. [22:55] Uh but [22:57] you know, there there is a line. [23:00] Sherry said did she even mention the [23:02] victims survivors? One time. None times [23:05] she says. Not according to this article. [23:06] Like I said, I haven't watched the [23:08] actual video [23:09] which I'll probably do at some point in [23:11] time [23:12] because that just I mean if this [23:14] article's [23:16] I don't know if I want to put my ears [23:17] through that. [23:19] Maybe we'll do a live and go over that [23:21] video at some point in time.  📄 **Full text:** ![[Full Document Contents/Articles/Jenn Johnson's Horrid Bethel Defense.md|Jenn Johnson's Horrid Bethel Defense by YouTube]] ## Highlights - is to me, too. You're absolutely right. Elaine said, "Trustworthy? She must be kidding." Cathy said, "God has a lot of merciful restraint not to strike a lot of people with lightning. Talk about the Holy Spirit that way." Yeah, exactly. Very, very sad. Goes on to continue saying here, "Staff members love Let's just read it from up here. Jen Johnson, who's been a part of Bethel Church since age 16, told Alex, ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01kq8efdap6fwx5qrq595q7ezp)) - Tags: 👻 ai highlighted - tell you Jesus was fully God and fully man. People often take one-liners out of context." That's really hard to take what what Bill Johnson said there was that Jesus did not perform his miracles as God, but he performed them as a man in right relationship with God. Basically, denying the deity of Christ when performing miracles. Why? Because it feeds into Bethel's theology. Bethel believes that you, everyone, can perform these supernatural miracles. And if ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01kq8efdbpmy5x50w506tx2k3c)) - Tags: 👻 ai highlighted - you not heal this person? You just know that God is sovereign over all things, but that's not what you're saying. You go on to say that God heals. And that he heals. Obviously, he didn't heal in those situations. There's a lot of ministry in this Christian walk of ours and there's a lot of surrender that gets involved in going. Uh God, I don't understand this, but I know who you are. I'm going to stay anchored and grounded to that. Pray for the sick, cast out demons. Uh cast out demons. I'm going to stay connected to what your word says. Even though I might ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01kq8efdcn201a4t284jytgakv)) - Tags: 👻 ai highlighted - Bethel is, "I'm learning the voice of God and I'm practicing hearing the voice of God." How about you just read your Bible? Read your Bible. Uh Pointing at the importance of humility, God wants us to risk hearing him. How dare you presume God wants us to risk hearing him? Where'd she pull that from? That's not from the Bible. I promise you that. Oh my gosh. Sherry said, "Sorry, I'm late in joining ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01kq8efde45navx1hp2k3jspry)) - Tags: 👻 ai highlighted - praising God. It is okay if praising God gives you emotion, but it's not for you. The praise is for God. You don't write praise and worship songs for humans. You write praise and worship songs for God. She goes on to say she's thankful for the global body of Christ and she said and how God is moving in different denominations. Sherry said preach him. Their music does ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01kq8efdg6wfkkr1kcrqcrdbcs)) - Tags: 👻 ai highlighted