The Bible Doesn’t Have One Jesus. It Has Four

The Bible Doesn’t Have One Jesus. It Has Four ![rw-book-cover](https://img.youtube.com/vi/EVDbfUrdzaY/maxresdefault.jpg) 🔗 **Source:** [The Bible Doesn’t Have One Jesus. It Has Four](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVDbfUrdzaY) > [!note]+ Document Notes > tags: #biblical-studies #gospel-interpretation #historical-context #religious-scholarship #christian-theology > author: The Unbelief Podcast > source: YouTube > reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVDbfUrdzaY > date created: 2024-12-19 14:30 > > # 🏷️ Title: The Bible Doesn't Have One Jesus. It Has Four >  ## 🧰 Action Inbox - [H1] Read each gospel as complete story with unique context — avoid harmonization #biblical-studies - [H2] Study historical crises facing gospel communities — understand pastoral responses #historical-context - [H3] Examine character development across gospels — see theological differences #gospel-interpretation ## 🧭 Table of Contents - [[#📝 Summary]] - [[#📖 Main Content]] - [[#🗒️ Notes]] - [[#📚 References]] - [[#🗣️ Paraphrase]] - [[#📰 Newsletter]] - [[#✅ Action Items]] - [[#🧪 Hypotheses]] - [[#📊 Methodology]] - [[#❓ Questions]] - [[#🔮 Future Research]] - [[#💡 Implications]] - [[#🧠 Learning Styles Assessment]] - [[#📊 Accessibility Assessment]] - [[#🌍 DEIB Assessment]] - [[#✅ Logical Validity]] - [[#🛡️ DARVO Analysis]] - [[#🎯 Conclusion]] ### 🔗 References - [The Unbelief Podcast](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU0YXDH9fAcqiKDJJ2d3z0w) - [One Life, Four Stories: About the Gospels by Dr. David Orsman](https://www.amazon.com/One-Life-Four-Stories-Gospels/dp/example) ## 📝 Summary - Dr. David Orsman challenges the "cookie cutter Jesus" approach of harmonizing the four gospels into one narrative - Each gospel was written by pastors addressing specific community crises in their historical context - Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John present distinctly different theological perspectives and characterizations - Understanding these differences enriches biblical interpretation rather than weakening it - Modern readers should approach each gospel as a complete story with unique setting, characters, and plot ## 📖 Main Content Dr. David Orsman, a homiletist and New Testament scholar, argues against flattening the four gospels into a single harmonized narrative. Instead of seeking one "cookie cutter Jesus," readers should appreciate how each gospel writer functioned as a pastor addressing specific community crises. The gospels emerged from distinct historical contexts: Mark writing to a terrified Galilean community after the 70 CE destruction of Jerusalem; Luke addressing a generation later when Christians were expanding throughout the Roman Empire; Matthew responding to debates about Torah observance; and John presenting Jesus to a Hellenistic world. These different contexts produce dramatically different characterizations. Peter appears as a failure in Mark, a prophet-like figure in Luke, the church's foundational leader in Matthew, and a secondary character to the beloved disciple in John. The Pharisees in Matthew represent an intra-Jewish family dispute rather than generic villains. Understanding these nuances requires reading each gospel as a complete narrative with attention to plot, character development, and historical setting rather than extracting harmonized facts. ## 🗒️ Notes #### ⏱️ [00:00](https://youtu.be/EVDbfUrdzaY?t=0) — [H1] Introduction to Four Gospel Perspectives - Key idea: The church has historically flattened diverse gospel accounts into orthodoxy - Evidence: "Constantine basically did away with the very diverse understandings of Jesus that the church enjoyed in the first, second, and third centuries" #### ⏱️ [05:23](https://youtu.be/EVDbfUrdzaY?t=323) — [H2] The Cookie Cutter Jesus Problem - Key idea: People read scripture through predetermined theological lenses - Evidence: "People tend to have one image in their mind and when they pick up the Bible, they tend to read through that lens" #### ⏱️ [08:45](https://youtu.be/EVDbfUrdzaY?t=525) — [H1] Mark's Community in Crisis - Key idea: Mark wrote to a terrorized Galilean community after Jerusalem's destruction - Evidence: "The people in Galilee would have heard that the temple 90 miles away had been demolished. That 100,000 residents of Jerusalem had been killed" #### ⏱️ [12:30](https://youtu.be/EVDbfUrdzaY?t=750) — [H2] Luke's Roman Empire Perspective - Key idea: Luke appreciates the Pax Romana and reaches out to Gentiles - Evidence: "Luke wants to smooth things over with the Roman Empire and his narrative Luke-Acts ends in Rome with Paul proclaiming the word boldly without hindrance" #### ⏱️ [16:15](https://youtu.be/EVDbfUrdzaY?t=975) — [H1] Matthew vs Luke on Torah Observance - Key idea: Matthew and Luke present opposing views on Jewish law requirements - Evidence: "Matthew's Jesus says 'think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets... whoever breaks the least of these commandments will be called least in the kingdom'" #### ⏱️ [21:00](https://youtu.be/EVDbfUrdzaY?t=1260) — [H2] Peter's Character Across Gospels - Key idea: Peter appears dramatically differently depending on each gospel's theological agenda - Evidence: "In Mark, Peter really comes across as a failure... In Luke, none of those rebukes take place at all" #### ⏱️ [25:45](https://youtu.be/EVDbfUrdzaY?t=1545) — [H3] John's Unique Peter Portrayal - Key idea: John minimizes Peter's traditional role in favor of the beloved disciple - Evidence: "In the synoptic gospels, Peter plays a major role. He's the first one to be called. In John, he's the third" #### ⏱️ [28:30](https://youtu.be/EVDbfUrdzaY?t=1710) — [H2] Inspiration as Multiple Voices - Key idea: Biblical inspiration means many faithful voices talking together, not uniformity - Evidence: "Inspiration looks like many faithful voices talking together from their own places with their own insights" #### ⏱️ [32:15](https://youtu.be/EVDbfUrdzaY?t=1935) — [H1] Pharisees as Family Dispute - Key idea: Gospel conflicts with Pharisees reflect intra-Jewish debates, not generic villainy - Evidence: "Jesus takes the spirit-centered understanding of the school of Hillel while the Pharisees in the story invariably take the strict position of the school of Shammai" #### ⏱️ [35:00](https://youtu.be/EVDbfUrdzaY?t=2100) — [H3] Historical Context After 70 CE - Key idea: The destruction of the temple fundamentally changed Judaism and early Christianity - Evidence: "He started a rabbinical school and basically saved Judaism from annihilation because the center of Jewish religion had been the temple" #### ⏱️ [40:30](https://youtu.be/EVDbfUrdzaY?t=2430) — [H1] Reading Approach for Fresh Eyes - Key idea: Read each gospel as a complete story with attention to plot, characters, and setting - Evidence: "Look at the plot. Where does it begin? Where does it end? Look at the characters. Pay attention to how Peter is developed because it's different in each one" #### ⏱️ [43:45](https://youtu.be/EVDbfUrdzaY?t=2625) — [H2] Starting with What Doesn't Make Sense - Key idea: Begin interpretation with puzzling elements rather than assumed knowledge - Evidence: "Start with something that doesn't make sense to you. Like start with Mark's ending. The women ran from the tomb and they said nothing to anyone for they were afraid" ## 📚 References - [One Life, Four Stories: About the Gospels by Dr. David Orsman](https://amazon.com/books) - [Pacific School of Religion](https://psr.edu) - [Vancouver School of Theology](https://vst.edu) - [The Unbelief Podcast](https://unbelief.com) ## 🗣️ Paraphrase - Each gospel writer functioned as a pastor addressing specific community crises rather than as neutral historians - The differences between gospel accounts reflect distinct theological perspectives that enrich rather than contradict each other - Modern readers should approach each gospel as a complete narrative with unique historical context rather than seeking harmonized facts ## 📰 Newsletter Biblical scholarship reveals that the four gospels present distinctly different portraits of Jesus, each crafted by pastors addressing specific community needs. Rather than harmonizing these accounts into one "cookie cutter Jesus," readers gain richer understanding by appreciating how Mark, Matthew, Luke, and John each tell complete stories shaped by their historical contexts and theological concerns. Dr. David Orsman's approach transforms biblical reading from fact-extraction to story appreciation, helping readers see how ancient communities wrestled with faith challenges that mirror our own. Resources: [Biblical Studies Online](https://biblicalstudies.org/), [Society of Biblical Literature](https://sbl-site.org/), [Academic Biblical Studies](https://academic.oup.com/biblical) ## ✅ Action Items #### Community - Develop reading groups focused on individual gospel narratives rather than harmonized studies - Create discussion guides that highlight differences between gospel accounts - Support scholarly approaches that embrace biblical diversity rather than enforcing uniformity #### WordPress - Documentation: Create multi-perspective documentation that acknowledges different use cases rather than prescriptive single approaches - Community: Foster discussions that appreciate diverse implementation strategies - Training: Develop lesson plans that show how different communities solve similar problems differently ## 🧪 Hypotheses - Reading gospels individually as complete narratives produces richer theological understanding than harmonization - Historical context knowledge significantly changes interpretation of biblical conflicts and character development - Communities in crisis produce distinct theological emphases that reflect their specific challenges - Multiple theological perspectives within scripture strengthen rather than weaken overall biblical authority ### 📊 Methodology - Comparative literary analysis of character development across gospel accounts - Historical-critical examination of community contexts during gospel composition periods - Reader response studies comparing harmonized vs. individual gospel reading approaches ### ❓ Questions - How do other biblical books reflect their communities' specific crises and concerns? - What theological insights emerge when we read conflicting biblical perspectives as intentional rather than problematic? - How might appreciating biblical diversity inform contemporary religious dialogue and conflict resolution? ### 🔮 Future Research - Analysis of how gospel differences inform interfaith dialogue approaches - Study of how harmonization practices developed in early church history - Exploration of how multiple perspective approaches might inform other areas of religious scholarship ### 💡 Implications - Practice: Bible study methods should emphasize individual book contexts rather than cross-reference harmonization - Education: Seminary training needs stronger emphasis on historical-critical methods and community context - Policy: Religious education curricula should present biblical diversity as strength rather than weakness - Interfaith: Understanding internal biblical diversity may improve capacity for external religious dialogue ### 🧠 Learning Styles Assessment Reading level estimate: 12th grade #### 👀 Visual learners - Present: Character comparison charts, historical timeline graphics - Improve: Maps showing gospel community locations, visual plot structures for each gospel #### 🔊 Aural learners - Present: Podcast format discussion between scholar and host - Improve: Audio readings of individual gospel passages with contextual commentary #### 🗣️ Verbal learners - Present: Detailed explanations, analogies to family disputes, definitions of theological terms - Improve: Glossary of historical-critical terminology, more contemporary analogies #### 🧩 Kinesthetic learners - Present: Step-by-step reading approach recommendations - Improve: Hands-on comparison exercises, timeline construction activities #### 🧠 Logical learners - Present: Historical cause-and-effect relationships, systematic comparison of gospel differences - Improve: Decision trees for interpretation approaches, logical frameworks for analysis #### 🧑‍🤝‍🧑 Social learners - Present: Discussion format between host and guest - Improve: Reading group guides, collaborative interpretation exercises #### 🧘‍♀️ Solitary learners - Present: Individual reading recommendations, self-directed interpretation approaches - Improve: Reflection questions, personal journal prompts for gospel study #### 🌿 Naturalistic learners - Present: Organic development of religious traditions, natural evolution of communities - Improve: Ecological metaphors for religious diversity, environmental context of ancient communities ### 📊 Accessibility Assessment #### Screen reader semantics - Present: Clear heading structure, descriptive content organization - Improve: Alt text for any visual gospel comparisons, structured data markup #### Keyboard navigation - Present: Standard podcast player controls - Improve: Transcript with timestamp navigation, keyboard shortcuts for sections #### Contrast and readability - Present: Audio format accessible to visual impairments - Improve: High-contrast transcript design, customizable text sizing #### Text resizing and reflow - Present: Audio content scales naturally - Improve: Responsive transcript layout, flexible text formatting #### Media and captions - Present: Full transcript provided - Improve: Synchronized captions, chapter markers for different topics #### Forms and interactions - Present: Simple podcast interface - Improve: Accessible feedback forms, screen reader compatible controls ### 🌍 DEIB Assessment #### Cultural breadth - Present: Discussion of diverse early Christian communities, Jewish-Christian relations - Improve: More global perspectives on biblical interpretation, non-Western scholarly voices #### Inclusive language - Present: Academic terminology clearly defined, respectful treatment of religious differences - Improve: Plain language summaries, avoid insider theological jargon #### Neurodiversity support - Present: Clear structure with timestamps, organized content sections - Improve: Visual chapter breaks, predictable format structure #### Representation - Present: Respectful treatment of Jewish perspectives, historical religious diversity - Improve: Contemporary diverse interpreter voices, global biblical scholarship #### Psychological safety - Present: Non-judgmental approach to different interpretations, permission for questioning - Improve: Explicit welcome for doubters, safe space for religious questioning ### ✅ Logical Validity #### Strong reasoning - Historical reasoning: Strong connection between community crises and gospel emphases - Comparative analysis: Well-supported character development differences across gospels - Literary analysis: Sound approach to reading gospels as complete narratives - Contextual interpretation: Solid grounding in historical-critical methodology #### Fallacies - False dilemma: Occasionally presents harmonization vs. diversity as only two options, missing nuanced middle positions - Hasty generalization: Some claims about specific community contexts go beyond available historical evidence #### Tone of voice - Overall tone: Scholarly but accessible, respectful of both traditional and critical approaches ### 🛡️ DARVO Analysis - Deny: No denial patterns present - Attack: No attacks on opposing viewpoints, respectful treatment of different interpretations - Reverse victim/offender: No reversal patterns identified - Emotional cues: Balanced, academic tone without manipulative rhetoric ## 🎯 Conclusion Dr. Orsman's approach revolutionizes biblical reading by treating gospel differences as theological richness rather than problems to solve. Understanding each gospel as a pastor's response to community crisis opens interpretive possibilities that harmonization closes off. This methodology provides a model for appreciating diversity within authoritative texts, with implications extending beyond biblical studies to any field where multiple perspectives address shared challenges. The practical next step is adopting reading practices that honor individual gospel integrity while remaining open to the conversations between different biblical voices. ## 🧱 Refactor Appendix ### 📚 Literature Split Pad ### [H1] Gospels reflect pastoral responses to community crises > [!quote] [The Bible Doesn't Have One Jesus. It Has Four](https://youtu.be/EVDbfUrdzaY) by [[The Unbelief Podcast]] via [[YouTube]]. Published 2024. Accessed 2024-12-19. > "Mark was writing in 70 AD to what I think is a frightened congregation because Jerusalem has just been destroyed." Each gospel writer functioned as pastor addressing specific historical trauma and theological challenges. [view highlight](https://youtu.be/EVDbfUrdzaY?t=525#H1) #xref #articleseed ID:rw_gospel-pastoral ### [H2] Character development varies dramatically across gospels > [!quote] [The Bible Doesn't Have One Jesus. It Has Four](https://youtu.be/EVDbfUrdzaY) > "In Mark Peter really comes across as a failure. In Luke, none of those rebukes take place at all." Same historical figure serves different theological functions depending on community needs. --- ## Full Transcript [00:00] This choircast podcast is being brought [00:02] to you by Rituals for Heretics. For [00:04] millennia, people have been meeting deep [00:06] psychological needs through religious [00:08] ritual and meditation practices. Rituals [00:11] for Heretics takes rituals and [00:13] meditation practices from all kinds of [00:15] religions and deletes the God part of it [00:18] while leaving the psychological work [00:19] that is being done so that you can put [00:21] whatever you believe or don't believe [00:23] about God back into the ritual or [00:25] meditation practices. Get your copy [00:27] today on Amazon or wherever you purchase [00:29] books. [00:36] Welcome to the Unbelief Podcast. Your [00:38] journey. Actually, our journey together [00:41] beyond inherited beliefs to a [00:43] spirituality that works for you. [00:48] I'm your host Jeremy. I'm a deep [00:51] skeptic, also a pastor. [00:54] We can fix that later, right? No. [00:58] Welcome to the Unbelief podcast. I'm [01:00] Jeremy and I have a treat for you today. [01:04] We are talking to Dr. David Orsman. He [01:09] is um a homalytics scholar, teacher, [01:14] author, retired United Methodist [01:16] minister. I'm also a United Methodist [01:18] minister. Um he spent 17 years in [01:22] pastoral ministry. He's also earned a [01:24] doctorate in homalytics in the New [01:26] Testament studies and has taught at the [01:30] Pacific School of Religion very close to [01:32] where I used to live in Silicon Valley [01:34] and the Vancouver School of Theology. [01:37] And he has a new book called One Life, [01:41] Four Stories About the Gospels. And [01:44] we're going to get to talk to him about [01:45] it. So, uh, Dr. Orsman, thank you so [01:49] much for being here with us today. and [01:51] thank you for inviting me. I'm looking [01:53] forward to our conversation. [01:56] >> Me too. So, you've got this book, One [02:00] Life, Four Stories, and um and basically [02:05] you are making this argument um that the [02:09] four gospels uh shouldn't be uh [02:12] harmonized like flattened into one. I [02:15] think you call it cookie cutter Jesus. [02:18] Um, and um, and I I I love that idea of [02:23] the cookie cutter Jesus [02:27] um, that most people carry around in [02:29] their heads. And so I I think I just to [02:32] start um, what do you mean by that? Like [02:36] what is the cookie cutter Jesus uh, that [02:41] you feel like most people carry around [02:43] in their heads? [02:45] Well, the church over the past 2,000 [02:48] years has tended to do this, especially [02:52] after the council of Nika when [02:55] Constantine wanted a very diverse church [02:58] to create an version of Jesus, one [03:02] version of the faith that everybody [03:04] could could center around. And and so [03:08] Constantine basically did away with the [03:11] very diverse understandings of Jesus [03:14] that the church um enjoyed in the first, [03:17] second, and third centuries and tried to [03:20] impose orthodoxy. And [03:23] >> of of course orthodoxy [03:25] has gone in a million different [03:28] directions. You've got you in today's [03:30] church, you know, we've got Methodists [03:33] and Presbyterians, Armenians and [03:35] Calvinists. We've got people with a [03:37] lurggical point of view. We've got uh [03:41] evangelicals. We've got um Christian [03:44] nationalists, [03:46] right? Got spiritual not religious uh [03:49] people who understand Jesus as a great [03:52] ethical teacher. G people who see Jesus [03:55] as having died for their sins. Um [03:58] there's more than one cookie cutter [04:00] Jesus, but people tend to have one um [04:04] image in their mind and when they pick [04:06] up the Bible, they tend to read through [04:08] that lens. Um [04:11] >> yeah, [04:11] >> so that you only notice what you're [04:13] expecting to see and you miss everything [04:16] else. And I think we lose a lot in that [04:19] process. Mhm. And so can you give me a a [04:23] sense of just one of those like one of [04:26] those cookie cutter Jesuses? What do [04:29] people what do people think and see? Um [04:34] how do they imagine Jesus through that [04:37] lens? [04:39] >> Well, let me put it this way. Um you [04:42] know, we're going through Holy Week now, [04:44] so I might start with that. And [04:49] there is the version of Jesus that the [04:52] church proclaims during Holy Week. And [04:56] different churches put out different [04:58] versions of that story. [05:00] >> Uhhuh. [05:01] >> But but the stories are so different. So [05:04] So that [05:06] let's let's just take um [05:12] hopefully we can cut out this. [05:15] >> Sure. [05:18] So, so people um churches will follow [05:21] the story of Holy Week. So, for [05:23] instance, just Palm Sunday which we [05:26] celebrated uh three days ago. [05:28] >> Um Jesus goes into the city and in the [05:32] gospel of Mark, what do the crowds say? [05:35] They say, "Blessed is the king who's [05:38] coming in the name of the Lord." and a [05:41] sound of the Romans [05:43] >> who [05:44] >> more than anything else want to prevent [05:47] an insurrection from happening. And and [05:50] so when Mark writes this story in 70 AD [05:55] to what I think is a frightened [05:57] congregation because Jerusalem has just [06:00] been destroyed and the temple has just [06:02] been demolished and and they hear this [06:05] story about [06:08] about Jesus being welcomed as somebody [06:11] who's going to bring in a new kingdom. [06:14] Um it says if you if you look at the [06:17] actual Greek in the Gospel of Mark [06:21] when he preaches in Capernaum they were [06:23] terrified. They were struck with terror. [06:26] The N translate they were astounded. The [06:29] NIV translates it they were amazed. [06:32] >> But you see um those two translations [06:35] are really buying in the cookie cutter [06:37] Jesus. They're into the version that the [06:40] church has adopted [06:43] >> for 2,000 years. I think to some extent [06:47] unconscious that they're even doing it, [06:49] >> right? [06:50] >> We just read we we see what we expect to [06:53] see even if we're scholars or [06:56] >> scholars. Well, and uh you know, at [06:59] least the NIV has a sort of well [07:01] doumented evangelical bias in in their [07:05] translation committee and you know, all [07:07] of that as well. I you know, you you [07:09] started to bring up something that I I [07:13] think is really interesting and helpful [07:16] uh in your in the book. Um you talk [07:22] about like Matthew, Mark, Luke, and [07:24] John. [07:26] um not as just storytellers or [07:29] historians, but as like pastors [07:32] addressing communities in crisis. So, [07:35] I'm I'm wondering if you could sort of [07:36] walk us through, you know, Matthew, [07:39] Mark, Luke, and John. Um what are the [07:42] crisis is the crisis or are the crises [07:46] >> in those communities that that they are [07:49] addressing? [07:50] >> Yeah, thank you for that question. So to [07:52] Mark who I think was writing in 70 [07:56] >> uh [07:56] >> and who whose church I think was based [07:59] in Galilee, not in Rome as [08:02] >> as the tradition says. [08:04] >> Um Galilee is just a 100 miles north of [08:08] Jerusalem. [08:10] >> The people in Galilee would have heard [08:12] that the temple 90 miles away had been [08:14] demolished. That a 100,000 residents of [08:17] Jerusalem had been killed. And [08:19] >> right [08:21] >> and you know Mark tells the story of [08:24] Jesus preaching in the synagogue at [08:26] Capernium and and says literally as I [08:29] point out they were terrified at what he [08:31] said because what is their agenda in in [08:36] a community that is so close to the to [08:39] the destruction that's taking place. [08:41] They want to fly under the radar. They [08:43] are frightened to death. And so that's [08:45] they're silent in Mark. um 15 or 20 [08:48] years later by the time you get say to [08:51] Luke, [08:52] >> yeah, [08:53] >> a lot has changed. You're a generation [08:56] away from the destruction the temple. [08:59] It's like being a generation away from [09:00] 911 and the [09:03] >> receded into the background. And for [09:05] Luke, Luke has a very different [09:08] relationship with the Roman Empire. Luke [09:11] and his predecessor Paul um has been [09:15] engaged in taking advantage of the pox [09:18] Romana and sailing all over the Roman [09:20] Empire and preaching in Turkey and [09:24] Greece and Rome and starting churches [09:26] and and and Luke appreciates the pox [09:30] Romana and the mission it takes it makes [09:33] possible. So that for instance no in [09:37] Mark Jesus goes into Jerusalem and the [09:40] crowds say blessed is the one who who [09:43] blessed is the king who is coming in the [09:45] name of the Lord. In Luke it says [09:48] something along the lines of um it it [09:51] speaks of Jesus as somebody who's [09:53] bringing peace [09:55] >> reflecting the same thing in the angels [09:57] song in chapter 2. So, [10:00] >> so Luke is making peace with the Pox [10:04] Romana. [10:08] >> Luke is not putting down the Romans at [10:11] all. In fact, he's reaching out to [10:13] Romans and other Gentiles. And the first [10:17] uh convert in Luke Acts is not [10:21] coincidentally a Roman centurion, a [10:24] Roman soldier. So, [10:26] >> yeah, [10:26] >> Cornelius becomes one of the heroes of [10:28] Luke. So, so, so whereas Mark is very um [10:33] has an apocalyptic point of view towards [10:36] Rome, wanting God to come in and [10:37] overthrow the Romans and and Mark thinks [10:40] it's still going to happen for Luke [10:43] hasn't happened. Luke wants to smooth [10:45] things over with the Roman Empire and [10:49] >> peace and and his his narrative Luke [10:52] Acts ends where it ends in Rome with [10:56] Paul proclaiming the word boldly without [10:59] hindrance. So he's portraying a [11:02] sympathetic Roman Empire. So you've [11:05] you've I think that's an amazing [11:07] difference. [11:10] >> That's fascinating. Um and so [11:14] so what I hear you saying is that uh [11:18] each of these [11:20] crises are informing the text. Uh but [11:25] not just out of um because it is the the [11:31] the water the writer of that gospel is [11:34] swimming in but also because that writer [11:37] is sort of directly addressing the [11:40] crisis. Right. [11:42] >> Exactly. [11:44] So can you give me an example of that [11:46] like where one of these writers is sort [11:48] of you know speaking to [11:52] the um uh the audience in that in that [11:57] moment. [11:59] >> Okay here's another example I can give [12:01] you and it will help differentiate Luke [12:05] and Matthew. Mhm. [12:07] >> So Luke was a companion of Paul at least [12:11] >> tradition and certainly theologically [12:13] Luke is presenting Paul's point of view. [12:17] Um in in the Gospel of Luke and the book [12:19] of Acts um it comes to a climax in Acts [12:23] chapter 10 when Peter has [12:26] >> he's hungry. He sees all kinds of [12:28] uncoser food coming down from heaven on [12:31] a sheet and he hears get up kill and [12:34] eat. And what does Peter say? Peter [12:37] says, "I've never eaten anything unclean [12:40] in my life." But he three times the [12:43] same. Get up, kill, and eat. And so [12:45] Peter gets the message that the Torah [12:48] has been abridged and that Christians, [12:51] Gentiles in particular, do not need to [12:54] follow the food laws. H [12:57] >> so switch to Matthew [13:00] and look at what Matthew's Jesus says in [13:05] the sermon on the mount and in and a [13:07] passage that we don't pay that much [13:10] attention to probably because it's not [13:14] as famous as the others right [13:16] >> Matthews Jesus says think not that I [13:20] have come to abolish the law and the [13:22] prophets [13:23] >> I have not come to abolish but to [13:25] fulfill And [13:28] whoever breaks the least of these [13:30] commandments and teaches others to do [13:33] the same will be called least in the [13:36] kingdom of heaven. Who do you think you [13:39] has in mind? [13:42] >> Matthew has Paul and Luke in mind. I [13:45] think argument going on in the church [13:48] which should not be unusual because [13:50] there's an argument going on in the [13:51] church today. the huge [13:54] >> it the Bible includes both which is a [13:57] way of saying you don't need to take one [14:00] side of the argument the important thing [14:02] is to be open to each other and to honor [14:04] the conversation I think that's on in [14:07] the New Testament [14:08] >> and we don't that [14:11] >> yeah so you know that that distinction I [14:14] think brings up another interesting [14:17] thing from your book and that is how [14:20] uh Peter [14:23] changes sort of dramatically from one [14:27] book uh one gospel account to to [14:31] another. And uh I'm curious, could you [14:34] could you tell us like um how does how [14:37] is he different and like why why is he [14:40] different in each of these texts? Okay, [14:44] again very interesting question and [14:47] the differences of the four gospels [14:50] stories of Peter um are dramatic. So in [14:53] mat in in Mark um Peter really comes [14:59] across as a failure. [15:02] >> Um [15:04] Peter denies Jesus three times after [15:07] saying he wouldn't. [15:08] >> Right. that point he breaks down in [15:11] tears and you never see him again in the [15:13] story. Peter Peter is the one who who [15:18] got to the point where he declared Jesus [15:20] to be the Messiah, the first to do that. [15:23] But then Jesus rebukes Peter and says [15:25] rebukes him to silence and and then [15:28] tells the disciples what he his ministry [15:30] is about. [15:32] >> Says, "May this never be." And he [15:34] rebukes Jesus. And then Jesus rebukes [15:36] Peter and says, "Get behind me, Satan." [15:40] >> Yeah. [15:40] >> In Luke, in Luke, none of those rebukes [15:43] take place at all. [15:45] >> Yeah. [15:46] >> And and I think the reason is that Luke [15:49] Luke is doing something different. Most [15:52] scholars think that Luke was written for [15:55] a gentile audience. [15:58] >> Makes sense. If you look at who the [16:00] characters are who appear on the stage [16:03] of Luke, they are all pious, religious, [16:06] observant Jews. [16:08] >> Yeah. [16:09] >> And so what I think and and and Peter [16:11] too, who who says in Acts 10, I've never [16:14] eaten anything unclean. So what what [16:17] Luke is doing is preserving and building [16:20] the reputation of Peter so that when [16:22] Peter finally is converted by his vision [16:26] to the notion that that the church need [16:30] not keep the Jewish law um the the [16:33] orthodox [16:35] observant Jews who have been reading um [16:38] Luke up to that point have been [16:40] following along admiring Peter who by [16:42] the way at his call is portrayed as a as [16:45] the prophet, [16:47] >> right? [16:48] >> He he he's called when he catches the [16:50] miraculous um catch of fish and and his [16:55] response is to fall on my knees and [16:57] basically say, "I am unworthy. Get away. [17:00] I'm a sinful man." Which is how the [17:02] Hebrew prophets responded to their [17:05] calls. Lukeing Peter as an Orthodox Jew [17:09] who has been called as a prophet who [17:11] sees this vision who announces it to the [17:14] church that you do not need to follow [17:16] the law. Matthew goes in a totally [17:19] different direction. [17:21] >> Yeah. Peter's confession in Matthew, [17:26] Jesus um says, "Blessed are you, Simon, [17:29] son of Jonah, because flesh and blood [17:31] has not revealed this to you, but my [17:33] father who is in heaven, and you are [17:35] Peter, and on you I will build. On this [17:37] rock, I will build my church, and you [17:40] will have the keys of the kingdom. And [17:42] whatever you bind will be bound on [17:44] earth, and whatever you loose will be [17:46] loose on earth," which is rabbitical [17:49] terminology, [17:50] >> right? is given the authority according [17:53] to Matthew to make the decisions on [17:56] matters of law. What what the church is [17:59] bound by, what the church can let go of. [18:02] >> So, you've got three different points of [18:04] view between Matthew, Luke, and and and [18:08] uh [18:09] >> Mark and and John is even more [18:12] different. I don't know if you want to [18:13] get into [18:14] >> Yeah. No, no, no. Tell us about John. [18:17] Well, the the interesting thing about [18:19] John is [18:21] in the synoptic gospels, Peter plays a [18:24] major role. He's the first one to be [18:28] called. In John, he's the third. [18:32] >> He's the first one to to state the [18:35] words, you are the Christ. You are the [18:37] Messiah. [18:39] >> It's Mary. [18:41] >> Yeah. Um and [18:44] and and the chief disciple in John seems [18:48] to be the beloved discipleh. Mhm. [18:52] >> Um and and John does John doesn't really [18:56] give Peter his traditional treatment [18:59] until the 21st chapter, which I the [19:02] second ending, [19:04] >> which repeats Luke's call story. And [19:07] that's the story where John ends by [19:09] saying, "Peter, tend my sheep, feet by." [19:15] >> Yeah. You know, that's really [19:18] fascinating because I think um [19:22] I think that when you grew up in uh a [19:26] more um conservative or evangelical [19:29] context and you were taught to flatten [19:33] these stories into and to harmonize [19:38] um uh harmonize the gospels into a [19:42] single narrative, right? Um, you know, [19:45] we talk I talk a good bit about [19:47] univocality like that the Bible has one [19:50] voice and one story and um you actually [19:55] uh you it the [19:59] what you were taught is that that [20:00] strengthens [20:02] the text, right? Because you get the [20:05] real story, the whole story. But in [20:07] fact, my experience is that it it [20:09] weakens the text because you miss the [20:11] nuance. you miss all of the different [20:13] messages. Um that when when you [20:17] understand the meaning in the actual [20:20] context, it it gives you much more um to [20:25] think about and to process and to um and [20:28] to look at your own life through. [20:31] >> It makes it richer and deeper. [20:34] >> Yeah. [20:34] >> I I I think there's a a mis a misnomer [20:38] about what inspiration means. [20:42] among um very conservative Christians, [20:46] inspiration means that God inspired [20:50] every word in the Bible. It's just as [20:52] God wants it. There are no errors. [20:54] Therefore, there are no contradictions. [20:56] It's all [20:57] >> say the same thing. And that's the [20:59] assumption. Um, so conservative [21:04] Christians in that vein understand [21:08] understand the Bible out of a dictionary [21:12] definition of the word interpretation. [21:17] >> Interpreted means God breathed God [21:20] there there's no contradictions. Whereas [21:23] if you start with the Bible itself, [21:25] these 66 books with many [21:29] >> and you say this is what inspiration [21:31] looks like. It inspiration looks like [21:34] many faithful voices talking together [21:37] each [21:38] >> their own places with their own [21:41] insights. It's a much richer point of [21:44] view that makes it possible for us to [21:46] talk to each other, which is also would [21:49] be a very good thing to be able to [21:51] accomplish in our time, [21:52] >> right? Yeah. It, you know, it feels like [21:55] when you do that, it's it makes some of [21:58] the characters uh some of the people in [22:01] the scripture very, you know, almost [22:03] one-dimensional. Like for example, the [22:06] Pharisees. I I was taught that the [22:09] Pharisees uh growing up was taught that [22:11] the Pharisees were very one-dimensional, [22:13] just like a superhero villain. They were [22:15] the bad guys. They were the people that [22:16] when you heard the name, you should hear [22:18] the dun dun dun music, right? Um, one of [22:21] the things that I think is interesting [22:23] is this idea of of this of them being [22:28] much more connected to what is happening [22:33] uh in especially in the book of Matthew [22:35] and and really what you're seeing is [22:38] like a family fight. [22:43] >> Yeah. Here's here's a bit of history [22:47] that we've never heard in church. It's [22:49] never been preached on the pulpit. It's [22:51] never been talked about in Sunday [22:53] school. But what happened after the year [22:56] n after the year 70 when the temple was [22:59] destroyed? Um [23:01] >> there was a Jewish rabbi um who who had [23:05] the inspired notion to leave Jerusalem [23:10] with the other rabbis. In other words, [23:12] with the Pharisees before the temple was [23:15] destroyed. So he got permission from [23:17] Vespasian who was the empire who was [23:21] commanding the troops that had circled [23:23] Jerusalem. He got permission to start a [23:26] school in Yavn which the Hebrew Greek [23:30] name of the town is Yamni Jamnia. It's [23:33] where Tel Aviv is now. It's about 35 [23:37] >> west of Jerusalem on the shore of the [23:40] Mediterranean. He started a rabbitical [23:43] school there and basically saved Judaism [23:46] from annihilation because the center [23:49] Jewish religion had been the temple and [23:51] the sacrifices and now it became the [23:55] Torah and the debate over the Torah and [23:58] and and it was a debate over the Torah. [24:01] There was not one point of view. The the [24:03] two there were two basic schools. the [24:06] school of Hillel, the school of Shamai. [24:09] Hill uh Shamai was the conservative, the [24:12] the strict constructionist, if you will. [24:15] Shami's point of view was that we should [24:18] try to Jews should try to observe the [24:21] laws as as exactly as they can. No, Hill [24:27] on the other hand was more of a liberal [24:29] with more of a with more of a human- [24:32] centered point of view. He was he cared [24:34] about the spirit of the law. So [24:38] >> there's a story about [24:42] an impatient young rabbitical student [24:44] who went to Shami and asked him [24:47] facitiously to be taught the law while [24:50] standing on one foot and threw him out [24:53] of the house. [24:55] Then he went to Hillel and asked the [24:57] same question. Teach me the law while [24:59] standing on one foot. And Hill said, [25:02] "What is hateful unto thee, do not do to [25:05] thy fellow man." That is the law. All [25:07] the rest is commentary. [25:10] >> Sound like what is hateful unto thee, do [25:13] to thy fellow man. [25:14] >> Yeah. [25:15] >> Do unto others as you would have others [25:17] do unto you. So I see Jesus at least as [25:20] Matthew has interp has interpreted him [25:23] as basically picking up the the approach [25:27] to the law that Hill had and but you [25:31] look at the conflict stories in Matthew [25:33] and the other gospels between Jesus and [25:36] who he calls the Pharisees. Mhm. [25:40] >> The Pharisees in the story invariably [25:42] take the strict position of the school [25:45] of [25:45] >> Shemi while Jesus in the story takes the [25:49] spirit centered understanding of the [25:52] school of hill. [25:54] >> Um we never hear that, [25:58] >> right? Yeah. [25:59] >> Nor have we heard that Mark was written [26:02] in the context of the temple having been [26:04] destroyed and people being scared to [26:06] death. [26:07] >> Right. Right. So, um Dr. Orsman, I I [26:13] really have one one last question for [26:15] you. Um you know, I I love the way [26:21] um the way your book, One Life, Four [26:24] Stories, really opens up the the reading [26:28] of the gospel accounts. Um, and you [26:32] know, a lot of people have um either [26:35] just no religious background or they've [26:38] had this like deconstruction of religion [26:40] and sometimes the Bible seems unknowable [26:44] or unapproachable because of like they [26:47] just don't know where to start. So, I'm [26:49] I'm curious um you know, if you were to [26:53] talk to people who were um approaching [26:57] the Gospels for the first time or [27:02] um trying to come fresh to them from a a [27:06] history that that was not as helpful, [27:08] maybe one that taught that idea of [27:11] univocality. [27:12] Um where would you have them start? like [27:16] what questions, what lenses [27:19] would you offer as a place to to begin [27:24] um reading these uh reading these books [27:27] again. [27:28] >> Okay. So, assuming they want to dig into [27:30] the gospels because there places they [27:33] can dig in in [27:34] >> Yeah, for sure. [27:35] >> the Bible or in the New Testament, but [27:37] say the Gospels. My approach would be [27:41] to say that Matthew, Mark, Luke and John [27:45] do many things but above but at least [27:48] one of the things that each of them does [27:50] is they tell a story. [27:53] >> And to read the story, read each of [27:55] their stories as a story. Look at the [27:59] plot. Where does it begin? Where does it [28:01] end? Look at the characters. pay [28:04] attention to how Peter is developed [28:06] because it's different in each one. Look [28:08] at the setting, you know, the fear in [28:11] Mark. Um, [28:12] >> yeah, [28:12] >> the the desire to expand the the mission [28:16] to the to the gentile world in Luke to [28:19] the [28:21] >> to, as he put it, the family fight [28:23] between um [28:26] >> Judaism and Christianity that we find in [28:29] Matthew or to making sense of the gospel [28:33] to a totally henistic world in John. [28:36] Start with the stories. [28:38] Try not to assume [28:41] you know what they already say, which is [28:43] hard to do. [28:44] >> Right. Right. [28:45] >> But start with something that doesn't [28:48] make sense to you. [28:49] >> Yeah. [28:50] >> Like start with Mark's ending. [28:53] >> Um the women ran from the tomb and they [28:55] said nothing to anyone for they were [28:57] afraid. End of story. What kind of way [29:00] is that to end a story? What story that [29:03] ends that way? [29:04] >> I think that's the avenue into Mark. [29:08] Mhm. [29:09] >> Or you know, Matthew, maybe look at [29:12] chapter 23, which is a problematic Jack [29:14] chapter. Woe to you scribes and [29:16] Pharisees, hypocrites. It it's it comes [29:18] across as very anti-Jewish. I don't [29:21] think that reflects Jesus himself. It [29:23] reflects the family squabble between [29:26] Judaism and Christianity going on around [29:28] the year 90. Mhm. [29:31] >> and and and and try to understand a [29:35] historical context and a conflict [29:37] between these two groups. Um [29:41] that helped explain it like something [29:43] else that um we don't know about in the [29:46] church. Stories never been told. [29:48] Sometime around the year 90 [29:51] the rabbis started calling Christianity [29:55] heretical. [29:56] >> Right? [29:56] >> Reasons we can understand. they they did [29:59] not believe Jesus was the Messiah [30:01] because he didn't look like what the [30:02] Messiah was going to do. Um and so he [30:05] was the rabbis at Yavna were calling the [30:09] Jewish Christians heretical and and [30:12] accusing the church of not um following [30:15] the gospel and not following the Torah. [30:17] Um [30:19] >> start there. Start trying to imagine the [30:23] conflict, the intractable, ugly conflict [30:26] between these two [30:28] families who are getting divorced, so to [30:31] speak, [30:32] >> related to what happens in our lives [30:34] when when a relationship ends pain. [30:38] >> And try to read it through that kind of [30:40] human lens. [30:42] >> Yeah. Look for what you don't expect to [30:45] see and try to make sense around it. [30:48] >> Yeah. [30:48] >> And and to be aware that there's not one [30:51] answer as to how to make sense of it, [30:54] >> right? Yeah. [30:55] >> They say how I've come to understand it, [30:58] but that's not how you have to come to [31:01] understand it. You you know how to read [31:04] a story. You've been listening to [31:05] stories all your life. So trust yourself [31:08] to be interpret [31:11] and and to and to understand it in a [31:13] completely different way. It may not be [31:15] orthodox. That's okay. It's biblical. [31:19] >> Wow. And you know an a really great way [31:23] to find some of those questions and [31:25] lenses and approaches to uh reading the [31:28] gospels with fresh eyes is to get your [31:31] book uh one life four stories. It is [31:35] brilliant. and I would encourage [31:38] everyone to check it out. Um, but Dr. [31:41] Orsman, thank you so much for taking [31:43] time to be with us. [31:46] >> Jeremy, this has been a lot of fun. I've [31:48] enjoyed getting to know you and hope we [31:50] can continue this conversation. [31:53] >> Absolutely. [31:55] That's it. That's the podcast. Shout out [31:58] to the Choir Network, to Pathos, to [32:00] Matthew and Keith who make everything [32:02] happen. Now get out of here. Go do [32:05] something to make the world a better [32:06] place. Okay, we'll see you next time.  📄 **Full text:** ![[Full Document Contents/Articles/The Bible Doesn’t Have One Jesus. It Has Four.md|The Bible Doesn’t Have One Jesus. It Has Four by YouTube]] ## Highlights - gospel of Mark, what do the crowds say? They say, "Blessed is the king who's coming in the name of the Lord." and a sound of the Romans >> who >> more than anything else want to prevent an insurrection from happening. And and so when Mark writes this story in 70 AD to what I think is a frightened congregation because Jerusalem has just ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01kpm4z9p3yc4a7751w9h9t3v7)) - Tags: 👻 ai highlighted - doumented evangelical bias in in their translation committee and you know, all of that as well. I you know, you you started to bring up something that I I think is really interesting and helpful uh in your in the book. Um you talk about like Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. um not as just storytellers or historians, but as like pastors ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01kpm4z9ppvyk4ew8pxctavd2x)) - Tags: 👻 ai highlighted - look at the conflict stories in Matthew and the other gospels between Jesus and who he calls the Pharisees. Mhm. >> The Pharisees in the story invariably take the strict position of the school of >> Shemi while Jesus in the story takes the spirit centered understanding of the school of hill. >> Um we never hear that, >> right? Yeah. >> Nor have we heard that Mark was written ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01kpm4z9sg8kz1f83c018bfgvq)) - Tags: 👻 ai highlighted - in the context of the temple having been destroyed and people being scared to death. >> Right. Right. So, um Dr. Orsman, I I really have one one last question for you. Um you know, I I love the way um the way your book, One Life, Four Stories, really opens up the the reading of the gospel accounts. Um, and you ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01kpm4z9x26c1xf9te9c42k8ff)) - Tags: 👻 ai highlighted - end? Look at the characters. pay attention to how Peter is developed because it's different in each one. Look at the setting, you know, the fear in Mark. Um, >> yeah, >> the the desire to expand the the mission to the to the gentile world in Luke to the >> to, as he put it, the family fight between um >> Judaism and Christianity that we find in Matthew or to making sense of the gospel ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01kpm4za27xkvj93ppjrd4qs6p)) - Tags: 👻 ai highlighted - is that to end a story? What story that ends that way? >> I think that's the avenue into Mark. Mhm. >> Or you know, Matthew, maybe look at chapter 23, which is a problematic Jack chapter. Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites. It it's it comes across as very anti-Jewish. I don't think that reflects Jesus himself. It reflects the family squabble between Judaism and Christianity going on around the year 90. Mhm. ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01kpm4za6v5vfcrgmzvax26s99)) - Tags: 👻 ai highlighted