The Keys to a Sustainable WordPress Community

The Keys to a Sustainable WordPress Community ![rw-book-cover](https://img.youtube.com/vi/jL3_g9wpQpk/maxresdefault.jpg) 🔗 **Source:** [The Keys to a Sustainable WordPress Community](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jL3_g9wpQpk&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fthewpminute.com%2F&source_ve_path=MjM4NTE) > [!note]+ Document Notes > tags: #wordpress #community-building #sustainability #open-source #contribution #volunteering > author: Eric Carnevale > source: The WP Minute > reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jL3_g9wpQpk > date created: 2024-12-19 14:30 > > # 🏷️ Title: The Keys to a Sustainable WordPress Community >  ## 🧰 Action Inbox - [H1] Develop educational programs for business owners about WordPress open source — help them understand what powers their websites #wordpress #education - [H2] Create mentorship programs to prevent volunteer burnout — establish sustainable contribution frameworks #community-building #sustainability - [H3] Build university partnerships for WordPress education — target next generation contributors #education #outreach ## 🧭 Table of Contents - [[#📝 Summary]] - [[#📖 Main Content]] - [[#🗒️ Notes]] - [[#📚 References]] - [[#🗣️ Paraphrase]] - [[#📰 Newsletter]] - [[#✅ Action Items]] - [[#🧪 Hypotheses]] - [[#📊 Methodology]] - [[#❓ Questions]] - [[#🔮 Future Research]] - [[#💡 Implications]] - [[#🧠 Learning Styles Assessment]] - [[#📊 Accessibility Assessment]] - [[#🌍 DEIB Assessment]] - [[#✅ Logical Validity]] - [[#🛡️ DARVO Analysis]] - [[#🎯 Conclusion]] ### 🔗 References - [Mary Job's Website](https://maryjobe.com) - [HeroPress Essay 2017](https://heropress.com) ## 📝 Summary - Mary Job shares her journey from philosophy student to WordPress community leader in Nigeria - Discusses sustainable community building practices and preventing volunteer burnout - Emphasizes the human-centered approach to technology and community development - WordPress growth has stalled at 40% market share - needs better business owner education - Argues for compensating volunteers sustainably while maintaining contribution spirit - Highlights underutilized areas like polyglots team and next-generation outreach ## 📖 Main Content Mary Job, a philosophy graduate turned WordPress community strategist, discusses her evolution from accidental community organizer to professional consultant. Her background in philosophy provides a human-centered perspective often missing in technology spaces. She accidentally started organizing the Lagos WordPress meetup after seeking community herself, which forced rapid learning about WordPress to meet attendee expectations. Job emphasizes that sustainable communities require intentional planning to prevent organizer burnout - something she experienced personally, taking a three-year break. Her current consulting work focuses on helping organizations build communities that don't depend entirely on individual volunteers sacrificing themselves. A key insight is that WordPress needs better business owner education. Many website owners don't know their sites run on open source software, missing opportunities to give back to the ecosystem supporting their businesses. Job advocates for reaching university students and younger generations with different attention spans and learning preferences. ## 🗒️ Notes #### ⏱️ [00:00](https://youtu.be/jL3_g9wpQpk?t=0) — [H1] Introduction and philosophy background - Key idea: Philosophy studies chosen deliberately, not assigned, reflecting personal values - Evidence: "I read all of the subjects... I found philosophy... This sounds exactly like who I am" #### ⏱️ [03:15](https://youtu.be/jL3_g9wpQpk?t=195) — [H2] Philosophy's relevance to community building - Key idea: Philosophy emphasizes people-centered approach to technology - Evidence: "People are at the center of everything... at the bottom of who we serve as people" #### ⏱️ [05:30](https://youtu.be/jL3_g9wpQpk?t=330) — [H3] Discovery of WordPress in 2015 - Key idea: WordPress addiction developed after watching tutorial videos during Ghana internship - Evidence: "I spent the next 24 to 40 hours watching all of those... I became like a WordPress addict" #### ⏱️ [07:45](https://youtu.be/jL3_g9wpQpk?t=465) — [H1] Deliberate community seeking - Key idea: Actively sought WordPress community rather than stumbling into it - Evidence: "I deliberately seek out a community... there has to be a community somewhere" #### ⏱️ [09:20](https://youtu.be/jL3_g9wpQpk?t=560) — [H2] Forced learning through community leadership - Key idea: Organizing meetups required deep WordPress knowledge to meet attendee expectations - Evidence: "Other people would come expecting you to know... I found myself studying overnight" #### ⏱️ [12:40](https://youtu.be/jL3_g9wpQpk?t=760) — [H3] Transition to professional consulting - Key idea: Monetizing community building expertise after years of volunteer work - Evidence: "I have a depth of knowledge... how could I put this forward in such a way that it sustains me" #### ⏱️ [15:50](https://youtu.be/jL3_g9wpQpk?t=950) — [H1] Burnout and recovery - Key idea: Took three-year break from WordPress community due to overwhelm - Evidence: "I took a break... because I was really drowning... with a lot of stuff" #### ⏱️ [18:30](https://youtu.be/jL3_g9wpQpk?t=1110) — [H2] Learning to set boundaries - Key idea: Experience taught sustainable contribution practices and saying no - Evidence: "I have a bad habit of always wanting to step up... I can choose... without stressing everybody out" #### ⏱️ [22:15](https://youtu.be/jL3_g9wpQpk?t=1335) — [H3] Business owner education need - Key idea: Businesses should understand their websites run on open source WordPress - Evidence: "Businesses need to be intentional about where their website is built... know that my website is built on WordPress" #### ⏱️ [26:45](https://youtu.be/jL3_g9wpQpk?t=1605) — [H1] Durres meetup success story - Key idea: Local businesses eager to support when they understand WordPress community - Evidence: "They were so willing to offer their space... we've been doing WordPress for 10 years... we had no idea about any of this" #### ⏱️ [29:20](https://youtu.be/jL3_g9wpQpk?t=1760) — [H2] Contribution beyond code - Key idea: Many non-technical ways to contribute to WordPress ecosystem - Evidence: "There's no such thing as a small contribution... even if you go into the support forums" #### ⏱️ [32:10](https://youtu.be/jL3_g9wpQpk?t=1930) — [H3] WordPress market share plateau - Key idea: WordPress stuck at 40% market share, needs marketing improvement - Evidence: "We've been stuck at 40% for a while... we need to do more... reach out to the next generation" #### ⏱️ [35:40](https://youtu.be/jL3_g9wpQpk?t=2140) — [H1] Next generation engagement - Key idea: Young people prefer drag-and-drop interfaces, need to show WordPress possibilities - Evidence: "That was just drag and drop... we are leaving that generation behind... let them see what is possible" #### ⏱️ [38:50](https://youtu.be/jL3_g9wpQpk?t=2330) — [H2] Polyglots team importance - Key idea: Translation work underrated but crucial for global WordPress adoption - Evidence: "Polyglots... it's often overlooked... being able to navigate WordPress in my local language" #### ⏱️ [41:30](https://youtu.be/jL3_g9wpQpk?t=2490) — [H3] Sustainable volunteer compensation - Key idea: Developing program to help volunteers get paid while maintaining contribution spirit - Evidence: "It's a bit unfair when you put all your passion... and it doesn't pay you... if you're hungry, how do you feed somebody else?" ## 📚 References - [Mary Job's Website](https://maryjobe.com) - [HeroPress](https://heropress.com) - [Make WordPress](https://make.wordpress.org) - [The WP Minute](https://thewpminute.com) ## 🗣️ Paraphrase - Mary Job's philosophy background provides a people-centered approach to WordPress community building that emphasizes human needs over technical systems - Sustainable community organizing requires intentional boundary-setting and systems that don't depend on individual volunteers burning out from overcommitment - WordPress needs better education for business owners to understand their sites run on open source, creating more opportunities for ecosystem contribution ## 📰 Newsletter **Building Sustainable WordPress Communities: Lessons from a Philosophy Graduate** Mary Job's journey from philosophy student to WordPress community leader offers valuable insights for anyone building or participating in WordPress communities. Her key message: sustainable communities put people first and create systems that don't depend on volunteer burnout. The most practical takeaway? If you run a business with a WordPress site, understand what powers your website and find ways to give back - whether through local meetup support, forum help, or simply spreading awareness. As Mary discovered in Albania, many businesses are eager to contribute once they understand the open source ecosystem supporting them. Her upcoming 8-week volunteer sustainability program addresses a critical challenge: helping passionate contributors get compensated while maintaining the giving spirit that makes open source communities thrive. Resources: [Learn WordPress](https://learn.wordpress.org/), [Developer Docs](https://developer.wordpress.org/), [WP-CLI](https://wp-cli.org/) ## ✅ Action Items #### DevRel - Developer advocacy: Create business owner education content about WordPress open source benefits - Education: Develop university partnership programs for WordPress contribution - Developer experience: Improve onboarding documentation for non-technical contributors - Community management: Establish burnout prevention frameworks for organizers #### Community - Maintainers: Document sustainable leadership transition processes - Contributors: Create mentorship programs pairing experienced and new contributors - Sponsors: Develop transparent compensation frameworks for volunteer contributors - Ecosystem: Expand polyglots team outreach and language diversity initiatives #### WordPress - Community: Implement meetup organizer support and succession planning - Training: Create business owner curriculum about open source WordPress - Marketing: Develop next-generation outreach strategies for universities - Support: Establish contributor wellness and sustainability programs - Polyglots: Increase translation sprint frequency and local language advocacy - Meta: Track and improve contributor retention and satisfaction metrics ## 🧪 Hypotheses - Business owners who understand their websites run on WordPress will contribute more to the ecosystem - Sustainable volunteer compensation models can maintain open source contribution spirit while reducing burnout - Philosophy and humanities backgrounds provide valuable perspectives for community building in technology - WordPress market share growth requires targeting younger generations with different learning preferences ### 📊 Methodology - Survey business owners about awareness of their website's underlying technology stack - Pilot compensation programs for community organizers and measure contribution sustainability - Compare community health metrics between volunteer-dependent and systematically supported communities - Track university partnership outcomes on long-term contributor retention ### ❓ Questions - How can WordPress bridge the gap between technical contributors and business users? - What compensation models preserve open source values while supporting volunteers? - How do different cultural backgrounds influence community building approaches? ### 🔮 Future Research - Development of standardized community sustainability assessment frameworks - Cross-cultural analysis of open source community building practices - Economic modeling of sustainable volunteer compensation systems ### 💡 Implications - Practice: Community organizers need intentional boundary-setting and succession planning - Policy: Open source projects should develop volunteer wellness and compensation guidelines - Education: Technology education should include humanities perspectives on community building - Funding: Businesses using open source should budget for ecosystem contribution ### 🧠 Learning Styles Assessment Reading level estimate: 9th grade (accessible to wide business audience) #### 👀 Visual learners - Present: Interview format provides visual speaker engagement - Improve: Add community building process diagrams and contribution pathway visuals #### 🔊 Aural learners - Present: Audio interview format ideal for this learning style - Improve: Provide timestamped audio chapters for key concepts #### 🗣️ Verbal learners - Present: Rich storytelling with personal examples and analogies - Improve: Glossary of community building terms and WordPress jargon #### 🧩 Kinesthetic learners - Present: Practical examples of meetup organization and community actions - Improve: Step-by-step community building checklists and hands-on workshops #### 🧠 Logical learners - Present: Clear progression from problem identification to solution development - Improve: Decision trees for contribution choices and measurable community health KPIs #### 🧑‍🤝‍🧑 Social learners - Present: Community-focused content with collaboration emphasis - Improve: Discussion prompts for community organizer peer learning groups #### 🧘‍♀️ Solitary learners - Present: Personal reflection on volunteer journey and burnout experience - Improve: Self-assessment tools for sustainable contribution capacity #### 🌿 Naturalistic learners - Present: Ecosystem thinking about WordPress community health - Improve: Community lifecycle analogies and sustainable growth patterns ### 📊 Accessibility Assessment #### Screen reader semantics - Present: Good heading structure in transcript with clear speaker attribution - Improve: Add time-coded transcript sections with ARIA landmarks #### Keyboard navigation - Present: YouTube video supports standard keyboard controls - Improve: Ensure transcript sections are keyboard accessible with skip links #### Contrast and readability - Present: Standard YouTube player meets contrast requirements - Improve: Verify transcript formatting meets WCAG 2.2 contrast standards #### Text resizing and reflow - Present: YouTube transcript scales appropriately - Improve: Test transcript readability at 200% zoom #### Media and captions - Present: YouTube auto-captions available - Improve: Provide professional human-generated captions with speaker identification #### Forms and interactions - Present: Standard YouTube interaction controls - Improve: Ensure any related forms meet accessibility standards ### 🌍 DEIB Assessment #### Cultural breadth - Present: Global perspective from Nigerian to Albanian communities - Improve: Include examples from additional cultural contexts and regions #### Inclusive language - Present: Uses accessible language avoiding technical jargon - Improve: Define community building terms for non-native English speakers #### Neurodiversity support - Present: Clear structure with timestamped sections - Improve: Provide content in multiple formats (text, audio, visual summaries) #### Representation - Present: Features woman leader from Global South with non-traditional background - Improve: Highlight diverse community organizer voices and experiences #### Psychological safety - Present: Honest discussion of burnout and mental health challenges - Improve: Include resources for volunteer wellness and mental health support ### ✅ Logical Validity #### Strong reasoning - Deductive strength: Philosophy background → people-centered approach → better community building - Inductive strength: Multiple community experiences → generalizable sustainability principles - Causal reasoning: Volunteer burnout → community collapse, sustainable systems → healthy communities - Analogical strength: Business intentionality about products → intentionality about website platforms #### Fallacies - Appeal to experience: Over-reliance on personal anecdotes, could benefit from broader data - False dilemma: Presents volunteer burnout vs. sustainability as binary choice rather than spectrum #### Tone of voice - Overall tone: Conversational, authentic, and empathetic with practical wisdom from lived experience ### 🛡️ DARVO Analysis - Deny: No denial patterns observed - Attack: No attacks on accusers present - Reverse victim/offender: No victim/offender reversals identified - Emotional cues and rhetoric: Positive, supportive framing focused on solutions rather than blame ## 🎯 Conclusion Mary Job's insights highlight that sustainable WordPress communities require intentional systems that prioritize human needs over heroic individual effort. The path forward involves educating business owners about open source, creating compensation frameworks for volunteers, and targeting next-generation contributors through universities. Her philosophy background demonstrates the value of humanities perspectives in technology spaces, emphasizing that successful communities are ultimately about people serving people, not just technical systems serving users. ## 🧱 Refactor Appendix ### 📚 Literature Split Pad Purpose: Stage CEE units that become Literature notes. Split level: H3 ### [H1] Philosophy provides people-centered community approach > [!quote] [The Keys to a Sustainable WordPress Community](https://youtu.be/jL3_g9wpQpk) by [[Eric Carnevale]] via [[The WP Minute]]. Published 2024. Accessed --- ## Full Transcript [00:00] Hi everyone and welcome to the WP [00:02] minute. I'm Eric Caravac. Today I'm [00:05] joined by Mary Job, a longtime leader in [00:08] the WordPress community. Mary has helped [00:10] build the Nigerian WordPress community [00:12] and made multiple contributions to the [00:14] project itself. She's also a community [00:17] strategist working with clients to [00:19] create sustainable ecosystems. Mary, [00:22] welcome to the WP Minute. [00:24] >> Thank you. Thank you for having me here. [00:26] I'm so excited to be on the WP Minute. [00:30] Yeah, thank you. I I I've you're someone [00:32] I I've been seeing online for a long [00:35] time and always associated with [00:37] WordPress. And I have to admit I went [00:40] back and read your HeroPress essay from [00:42] I think it was 2017. [00:44] >> Yes, it was way back. [00:46] >> I loved your story because a lot of us [00:49] in the WordPress space, we don't start [00:51] out in technology necessarily. And I see [00:54] that you studied philosophy in school, [00:56] which is awesome. So ho how do you how [01:00] did you come to WordPress and how do you [01:02] think your studies maybe helped you [01:04] along the way? [01:06] >> Okay. So this is interesting because um [01:10] usually there's this common saying back [01:12] at home that when you find people [01:13] studying philosophy history [01:17] uh some heart related subjects it's [01:20] usually because they were given that [01:22] subject. So like in our part when you're [01:24] going to the university you have to pick [01:26] like your first and your second trucks [01:28] right and growing up I always wondered B [01:32] administration you know and then I had [01:34] to ask myself at a point like what [01:36] exactly is business administration I [01:38] suck at math so why am I even trying to [01:40] do business administration so I was like [01:42] no so I took the broker and I was like [01:44] let me see where I fit in right and I [01:47] read all of the subjects there that you [01:49] could study in university because it's [01:51] like a universal broker uh for Nigeria [01:54] and I found philosopher. And I was like, [01:56] "Oh, wow. This is this sounds exactly [01:58] like who I am. This is this is me." And [02:01] I remember telling my dad like, "I'm not [02:03] doing business admin again. I'm doing [02:05] philosophy." And my dad was like, "Are [02:06] you sure?" He asked me like multiple [02:08] times like, "Are you sure?" I'm like, [02:10] "Yeah, I'm very very sure. I want to [02:12] study philosophy." So that's how I got [02:15] into philosophy. [02:17] >> That that Well, that's great. I I can I [02:19] can relate to that as as a father. Are [02:22] you sure you want to do that one? [02:25] But I mean it it's something you [02:27] obviously you have a passion for it. Um [02:30] h how has that helped you in community [02:32] building? Do do you feel like it's given [02:34] you um a different perspective on it [02:36] maybe than somebody else might have? [02:39] >> Yes. Like I said just knowing what the [02:43] cross stood for uh I could totally [02:47] connect to it. I could like yes this is [02:49] so me. So it for me it wasn't like I was [02:53] given the cross. I chose the cross and I [02:56] chose it because it reflects who I am as [02:59] a person and who I am today. Like it's [03:02] it's literally like the foundation of my [03:04] life, you know, on everything that I've [03:06] been doing. So, it's sort of followed me [03:08] all the way uh even today and I mean [03:13] philosophy is the foundation of all [03:14] disciplines. So yes, it's it's followed [03:17] me all the way and up till today into [03:20] what I do is you know the principles the [03:24] you know everything about it just flows [03:27] into uh uh being human uh being a part [03:31] of the community you know and stuff like [03:34] that. [03:35] >> Well I I think um that's nice because in [03:38] technology we tend not to um we tend to [03:41] de dehumanize each other sometimes in [03:43] technology. I think philosophy might [03:45] actually be we probably need more [03:47] philosophers in tech. I don't know what [03:48] you think about that. [03:49] >> Yeah. Yeah. No, no, I I agree because [03:51] when you look at the ethical bit, the [03:53] ethical angle, that's actually like we [03:56] need and and that's what I'm exploring [03:58] these days like we seem to have [04:00] forgotten that at the at the bottom of [04:04] who we serve as people. Whether you're a [04:06] business owner or you're a community [04:08] person or whatever you do, people are at [04:11] the center of it. And we seem to be [04:13] forgetting that right. So I think we [04:16] need a reminder and coming from that p [04:18] uh from that uh field it helps me [04:22] >> to remind myself like people are at the [04:25] at the bottom of everything you're [04:26] doing. You're here for people. I mean [04:28] what's life without making an impact on [04:31] people? I don't know what kind of life [04:32] that would be if you haven't impacted [04:35] anybody in any small way. It doesn't [04:37] have to be big. [04:39] >> Exactly. Exactly. even you know I mean [04:42] there's a lot of pursuit of money and [04:43] things like that but really if you're [04:45] not impacting people then what good is [04:47] it make someone's life better [04:50] >> yeah there's nothing wrong with a [04:51] pursuit of money but who's going to pay [04:54] you that money people [04:57] >> that's a great point [04:59] >> people not not systems not I mean people [05:03] humans are still going to pay that money [05:05] so [05:08] >> well I I want to get into a little bit [05:11] to your background um in helping put [05:14] together the Nigerian WordPress [05:16] community. [05:17] >> How did you get involved with that? And [05:19] it sounded like you were pretty uh [05:21] pretty important role in getting that [05:23] like the meetup in Logos I believe it [05:25] was that you you done and how how did [05:27] you get involved with with WordPress in [05:29] in Nigeria and spread the word about it? [05:32] >> That's also a very funny story. I'll [05:34] tell it to you very briefly. So, um I [05:38] like I said I my background I like I [05:41] like writing right I like writing a lot [05:44] right uh I still have my blogspot [05:47] account up I mean I didn't delete a lot [05:49] of sentiment I just but when I look at [05:52] my writers in the past I'm like wow I [05:54] wrote that no I really should I mean I'm [05:57] better you know so um that love for [06:02] writing [06:03] u made me look for a software were to [06:06] write on, right? And there was up pages. [06:09] I still have the account there too. [06:11] There was blogger and then there was [06:13] WordPress and I remember first opening [06:15] WordPress in 2012 and I was like, what [06:16] is this? I just want to write, you know, [06:18] and then I closed it back. Then in 2015, [06:22] I was doing my master's internship in [06:24] Ghana. My uncle was like, you know, have [06:27] you checked out WordPress? I'm like, [06:29] really? WordPress? Really? I was like, [06:31] yeah. Uh, and then he gave me some [06:33] videos to watch. She was made by Martin [06:35] Rand and in Canada. I don't know if I [06:38] pronounce his name anymore. Yeah. [06:40] >> I spent the next 24 to 40 hours watching [06:43] all of those. I was like, "Wow, this is [06:45] so massive. This is so good. This is so [06:47] cool." You know, I was so messed at the [06:50] software and I just became I think at [06:54] that point I became like a WordPress [06:56] addict because I I fell in love totally [06:58] with WordPress at that point. And then [07:00] coming back to Nigeria after my program, [07:02] you know, uh I then thought, oh wait, [07:05] there has to be a community because then [07:07] I started building sites, you know, [07:08] buying domains. I didn't know what all [07:09] of those were, you know, cuz I wasn't [07:12] playing in that field. And I remember [07:15] asking myself like there has to be like, [07:18] you know, I found myself on make. [07:20] WordPress.org, for you know I I always [07:22] say like I didn't just stumble like I [07:25] deliberately seek out a community which [07:27] is interesting in my case I deliberately [07:30] seek out the community and I was like [07:32] there has to be a community somewhere [07:33] like who can I ask questions I don't [07:35] even know what I'm doing what am I even [07:36] doing I didn't know what hosting is you [07:39] know all of those questions drove me to [07:41] seek the community and then find that [07:44] there was a community in Lagos I was [07:46] like oh there's a community in Lagos at [07:47] that time I was living in Abu which is [07:49] an hour drive to Lagos you know and I [07:52] was like I reached out to the community [07:53] in Lagos the organizer like what's [07:56] happened you haven't had a meet up like [07:58] is there going to be a meet up soon you [07:59] I want to join I want to meet other [08:01] people who are using this amazing [08:02] software and that's how the story [08:04] started and he said you know what maybe [08:06] if you want to host an event and we [08:08] became friends up till today [08:11] he actually supported a lot but was [08:14] always in the background and we both co- [08:17] uh founded a hosting company uh because [08:20] that's his passion. I'm like the [08:21] operations, he's like the developer, but [08:23] he was always in the background [08:24] supporting every meetup that we did. But [08:27] what happened was [08:29] uh when I started to host meetups, I [08:31] found myself having to learn WordPress [08:34] deeply. I just wanted to go meet other [08:36] people. But other people would come [08:39] expecting you to know about the [08:41] software. [08:42] >> Yes, they do. [08:44] >> Yeah. They come expecting you to know. [08:46] So I found myself studying overnight. [08:48] what is SEO exactly? You know what is [08:51] what are plugins? You know what are [08:53] teams or can you build the custom? I had [08:55] to start learning all of those things so [08:57] that I could answer people when they ask [08:59] me and where I don't know I just defer [09:01] to like my friend like bosia come and [09:03] answer this is this is for you you know [09:06] but that's what drove me into the [09:08] community and well the rest is history. [09:12] That's that's a great way to learn, [09:14] isn't it? When you're when you other [09:15] people are depending on you for that [09:17] information. Um it's a great way to [09:19] force yourself to sit there and and [09:21] >> I was put on the spot because I had to [09:22] prepare even when I wasn't presenting [09:24] and somebody else was presenting. I had [09:26] to go learn about what they were [09:28] presenting so that I could also punch a [09:30] book. [09:33] >> Well, now now these days I I know you're [09:36] doing some consulting work, right? So [09:38] you're you're working with uh different [09:40] organizations trying to build [09:42] sustainable communities. [09:44] >> Yes. [09:45] >> What what is what what how's that gone [09:47] for you? What uh what have you been [09:50] doing uh with that so far? [09:52] >> So that's also interesting. I mean every [09:54] bit of every every at every uh uh [09:58] junction of my life is interesting. So [10:00] that's interesting because uh I [10:02] currently still work for paid [10:03] memberships pro. I mean, we have the [10:06] best membership software anyway out [10:08] there. I know it as I know I've tried [10:10] others, right? So, I still work full [10:12] time with paid memberships, bro. Uh I [10:15] I've doubled my hands in a bit of [10:17] different things, you know? So, [10:19] volunteering for me is a passion, [10:22] right? And you know the saying about um [10:26] do like the saying that when you do a [10:29] job that you love, it doesn't feel like [10:31] you're working. Something like that, [10:33] right? So working with WordPress every [10:35] day for me doesn't feel like work. It [10:38] feels like I'm having fun every day [10:40] because I'm discovering something new [10:41] both at work and outside of work, right? [10:44] Um uh so I've never treated that bit of [10:48] me as a business, right? For me, it's [10:52] always been like, oh yes, you know, [10:53] we're organizing this, we're meeting [10:55] people, we're networking, we're talking [10:57] about WordPress, we're solving WordPress [10:58] problems. That was all fun. uh until [11:01] last year I started rethinking like okay [11:03] so I've done this for years I've done [11:05] this for so many years I have a a depth [11:08] of knowledge in in my uh head somewhere [11:11] you know what could I mean this is also [11:14] work that I love so what could I do what [11:16] could I how could I put this forward in [11:18] such a way that uh it s it sustains me [11:22] so to say it sustains me and you know it [11:25] still doesn't feel like work because now [11:26] I'm doing something that I love as a [11:28] business so that's what better the [11:30] community [11:31] uh building and uh consulting work uh [11:35] helping uh uh businesses uh of [11:37] individuals, founders uh anybody [11:40] volunteering uh uh into how to build [11:43] sustainable communities because trust me [11:46] we failed over the years like WordPress [11:49] made up were not so active you know and [11:51] every day I keep trying to think how can [11:53] we put together a system that would work [11:55] you know that wouldn't be a burden on [11:57] one person because at one point I also [11:59] took a break from the WordPress [12:00] community for like I think three years. [12:03] Yes. Okay. [12:04] >> Yeah. I was a program and I took it [12:06] because I was really you know like [12:08] drowning and you know with a lot of [12:10] stuff. So [12:12] >> uh that better what I do now trying to [12:15] like okay let me put this wealth of [12:18] knowledge and experience into uh [12:20] something useful for businesses [12:22] individuals because at the end of the [12:24] day like I said people are still at the [12:25] heart of everything that we do. [12:27] community still had the heart of [12:28] everything that we do, right? You're not [12:30] selling to robots, you're selling to [12:33] humans, to people, to communities. So, [12:37] that's what got me here. [12:39] >> Well, I I I know like we've we've talked [12:42] about burnout in the WordPress community [12:43] before with people, especially with [12:45] event organizing a and different [12:48] volunteer roles like that. So, I can [12:50] understand why you you know, I I've seen [12:53] all the things that you've accomplished [12:54] on your WordPress.org profile. You've [12:57] done core committing and translations [12:59] and all these different things. I can [13:01] imagine that would be very tiring after [13:03] a while. You would need a break. [13:05] >> Yes. Yes. Yes, I did. I did need a [13:07] break. I took I did I needed a break and [13:10] then I struggled to get back in [13:13] that frame of mind because I wanted to [13:15] get back into that frame of mind so bad. [13:17] But you know, uh, [13:20] life happens. You have family, you have [13:22] this, you have that, you have. So, for [13:24] me, it was a struggle getting back in. [13:26] And I'm so excited because now I'm [13:28] finding my fit in just as I wanted. And [13:32] I'm excited about, you know, doing this [13:34] all over again. Now I have a lot of [13:36] energy. Of course. Of course. Now I know [13:38] better. Now I know how to, which is what [13:41] I'm essentially consulting for. Now I [13:43] know how to build that community without [13:46] B. how how to you know yeah how to build [13:49] strategies to for that community or for [13:52] any community work that I'm doing [13:53] without burning out myself that that's a [13:57] very important thing I I I cuz I imagine [13:59] in the WordPress community and any open- [14:01] source community that you know there are [14:02] certain people who take so much [14:04] responsibility on and if you have that [14:07] experience and wisdom to say we this is [14:11] how you take a step back this is how you [14:13] build something that will sustain over [14:16] many years Even after you're gone, [14:18] that's so much healthier than having a [14:21] handful of people that just try to do [14:24] everything themselves, right? [14:26] >> Yeah. And it's not always the fault of [14:28] people who try to do everything [14:30] themselves. It's just everything falls [14:31] on you and you have no choice but to [14:33] step up. I think I have a bad habit of [14:36] always wanting to step up. So my [14:38] daughter's school, we started a parent [14:41] association, right? Uh I was a secretary [14:44] last quarter and in this year because [14:46] the the vice president and the president [14:48] were leaving they pushed me up to the [14:51] president like Mary you're next in line [14:52] just be the president of the [14:54] pronization. I'm like I'm not built for [14:56] this you know but I mean it's building [14:58] community which is what I love. So I was [15:00] like okay great but I I I also have to [15:04] consciously not step up all the time. So [15:08] like we sell cookies every Friday to try [15:10] to raise money and I have this at the [15:14] back of my mind that if somebody doesn't [15:16] show up or somebody doesn't uph [15:19] volunteer I have to step up you know and [15:22] we used to do it in the mornings and [15:23] evenings. I was like no I'm committing [15:25] to just afternoons now I I can choose I [15:28] can build intentionally without [15:30] stressing everybody out. [15:33] when you lead a community, you have to [15:35] also be very empathetic because not [15:37] everybody can give the same amount of [15:39] time. [15:40] >> So you have to keep that at the back of [15:42] your mind. So it's not always deliberate [15:43] that people want to take on all the [15:45] responsibilities. is just knowing what [15:48] you can commit to, what you you can [15:50] commit to and knowing when to say no and [15:53] when to pull out and when, you know, [15:54] it's it's just like I said, experience [15:57] is the best teacher and it has taught me [15:59] how to best position myself to know what [16:02] I can take on, what I wouldn't take on. [16:04] And yeah, [16:06] >> well, that's so much better for your [16:07] mental health, I can imagine. [16:09] >> Oh, yes, it is. [16:13] companies. You know, we talked about [16:15] you're you're selling to people. You're [16:16] not selling to machines or systems. [16:18] >> Yes. [16:18] >> And if you're a company in the WordPress [16:20] space, you're a plug-in developer, [16:22] you're a hosting company. Um how [16:26] important is it to give back u and find [16:30] ways to give back? [16:32] You know, what would you recommend to to [16:35] uh like a WordPress developer came to [16:36] you and said they wanted to find a way [16:39] to um do something within the community. [16:42] How would you advise them on that? [16:45] >> So, first of all, let me approach this [16:47] from this angle, right? Uh once upon a [16:51] time, uh businesses didn't care to [16:54] inform people about their products [16:56] because I mean, everybody just bought [16:58] their products, you know, and that's [17:00] what bedded businesses needing websites [17:02] and then needing blogs on their website [17:04] so that they could inform their [17:06] customers, right? And we went into an [17:09] era where consumers also were deliberate [17:12] about where they were spending their [17:13] money, right? So they don't just want to [17:16] give their money to like any business or [17:18] whatnot. Uh it's the same thing. I think [17:21] businesses I would say businesses today [17:23] need to be intentional about where their [17:25] website is built. I know businesses [17:27] don't want to bother. I mean I just want [17:29] a website. I don't really care where the [17:31] website lives. Just spin me up a [17:32] website. And this is what I told my [17:34] customers when I did web designing a [17:36] lot. I I used to tell them like think of [17:39] your domain name and your hosting and [17:42] all of that cuz my customers are like [17:44] Mary why you budging me with all of [17:45] this. I'm like I need you to know where [17:48] your your host is, where your domain is. [17:51] You know, I don't even buy them with my [17:52] account. I make sure the customer buys [17:54] them with their email. I mean, when you [17:56] create a free Gmail, you know, this is a [17:58] Google product because it has Google all [18:00] over it. So I feel like businesses need [18:02] to treat their that part of their [18:05] website as they need to be intentional. [18:08] Know this is where my domain is at. This [18:11] is where my hosting is at, right? This [18:13] is what my website is built on. Now I'm [18:16] not saying businesses should start going [18:18] into the technical details of what is a [18:20] WordPress website. Just know that my [18:22] website is bu on WordPress is an [18:24] open-source software. Once once [18:27] businesses owners can do that, then they [18:30] can then think, you know, if this is [18:32] open source software, it means it's [18:34] free, right? Uh how can I give back to [18:37] this community? Because this community [18:39] is filled with like a wealth of [18:41] information, but people is filled with [18:43] so many people. You know, there's [18:46] literally no aspects of your business [18:47] that you would not find uh information [18:50] or so helpful resource about in the [18:52] WordPress ecosystem. So that should [18:55] drive like if I'm a business owner, my [18:57] website is built on WordPress. I'm [18:59] thinking like, okay, is there a local [19:01] WordPress community in my area, what can [19:03] I do, you know, to to to contribute to [19:06] that opensource software that's powering [19:08] my website, right? And it's it's [19:11] literally educational, right? But I [19:14] think if businesses can be intentional [19:16] about knowing where their website is [19:18] built, they can also then think of ways [19:21] to give back to the WordPress community. [19:24] It could be in the form of anything. [19:25] There's no such such thing as a small [19:27] contribution, right? But that's that's a [19:31] starting point for business owners or [19:33] for a plug-in developer, you know, find [19:36] there's there's a local WordPress [19:38] community almost everywhere, you know, [19:40] and if you feel if you feel like, oh, I [19:43] don't have one. Let me give you an [19:44] example. So, I currently live in Duras [19:45] in Albania, right? I moved from Nigeria [19:48] in 2024, right? When I got here, there [19:51] was a low price community, right? And [19:53] there was one in Toronto which is the [19:55] capital and the owner uh isn't uh uh the [19:59] the host isn't doing meetups hasn't done [20:02] any uh since I came cuz he's also taking [20:04] a break you know which is great uh but [20:07] I've been here a year and a half and I [20:08] thought there has to be a community you [20:11] know so I mean it's a lot of work [20:13] building the community but I applied to [20:15] start one not because I had all the time [20:17] and the you know resources to do that [20:20] but do you know what happened at the [20:21] first meetup we had everybody who came. [20:24] We had about seven people show up. Two [20:26] people who came and then left uh uh uh [20:29] uh because they had something to get to. [20:31] But they all said something that that [20:32] that they said I just saw on the [20:35] dashboard dur meet up and I was [20:38] perplexed like what is a meetup? You [20:39] mean in duress in my city? Cuz they were [20:41] all locals who came and maybe like three [20:44] year olds were foreigners. But it was [20:46] interesting to see how you know [20:48] enthusiastic they were like what you [20:49] mean there's something called a what [20:51] pass meetup? What company? I never heard [20:53] of that. You know, [20:56] the restaurant that I chose, the owner, [20:58] the the person who manages the studio [21:00] reached out and said like I was [21:02] perplexed like what we've been doing [21:04] WordPress for 10 years, right? And we [21:08] had no idea about any of this. So, you [21:11] can imagine how interesting that and [21:12] they were so willing to offer their [21:14] space. They had a table laid out for us. [21:16] That's how businesses can show up [21:18] intentionally. I just scheduled a meal [21:20] because I like that restaurant and they [21:22] have great Turkish uh uh coffee, right? [21:24] I didn't think that somebody from that [21:27] uh restaurant will reach out to me and [21:29] say, "No, I checked that the website was [21:31] built on WordPress." They were being [21:33] intentional about reaching out. [21:36] >> It's it's it's not hard. I mean, it's [21:38] not simple. It's not easy, but [21:40] businesses need to be intentional about [21:43] this things. You need to don't wait [21:45] until the the community finds you. Find [21:48] the community. It's open source [21:50] software. Find it. Give back to no [21:53] matter how little. [21:55] >> Well, I I think that's an important [21:57] point because we often think about [21:59] contribution and my mind immediately [22:02] goes to code. I'm not the world's [22:04] greatest developer. I you probably don't [22:07] want me writing, you know, anything that [22:09] would go into WordPress core. You would [22:11] not want it to be written by me. But [22:13] there are so many other ways to give [22:15] back. Just like the restaurant, just [22:17] giving a space for people to meet. It's [22:20] just so [22:21] >> it it's a it's a very nice gesture. It's [22:23] it [22:25] it's small and yet it makes a big [22:27] difference. [22:28] >> Water and they give us that Turkish [22:29] coffee and it was on the house. That was [22:32] great. [22:33] They they I they see that oh no, they [22:37] understand that what that the website [22:39] you know is built on an opensource [22:41] software and they were so eager to give [22:43] back. So I feel like if every business [22:46] owner could do that who has a website [22:47] building on WordPress, the ecosystem [22:49] will become so much larger. There's [22:51] space for everybody. [22:54] >> Exactly. Yeah. I mean no matter how [22:56] small the contribution, it all makes a [22:58] difference. Yes. [22:59] >> Even if you go [23:00] >> even if you even if you don't have a [23:02] local community, you can go into the uh [23:04] support forms and help answer questions [23:06] if that's something you're you're good [23:08] at. [23:08] >> You can write a tutorial if that's [23:10] something you're good at. That's that's [23:12] something I've done. And I I don't have [23:13] a ton of contributions uh that are [23:15] official, but I've, you know, I've tried [23:17] to help spread the word about different [23:19] things that I've learned. I I just think [23:22] that's important. We have to to look at [23:24] the these communities. [23:26] I mean, I know you're working with with [23:28] other companies, too. Have you worked [23:30] with other um open- source communities [23:32] beyond WordPress yet? [23:34] >> Uh not not very much. I I have a friend [23:37] who is very enthusiastic about Jumbla. [23:40] She's always trying to get me to like ah [23:42] Jumla is, you know, the the new version. [23:44] It's so cool. I'm like, yeah, I [23:46] understand that. It's just I have my [23:48] mind set on WordPress. I mean, it's a [23:50] love love relationship. Yeah. But I did [23:53] I did some work back with Tech Soup and [23:57] uh [23:59] Creative Commons. Yes. And I think at a [24:02] point I've run a community for that in [24:05] Abu uh my time in Nigeria. So I did that [24:09] in the press. Yes. Uh and then with the [24:13] Catholic Salician community also in the [24:15] press presently no other open source [24:19] communities cuz like I said I'm just [24:21] getting my fit back into contribution. [24:23] I'm getting my fit back into that. So I [24:26] don't want to rush it cuz I I don't want [24:28] to take on more than I can do. Right. So [24:31] I'm taking [24:33] >> that's a very wise strategy. [24:35] >> Yeah. [24:36] >> It's easy to get overwhelmed when you [24:37] start doing that. that stuff especially [24:39] at at a volunteer level where you're [24:41] you're out there helping everybody but [24:43] at the same time you need to to look [24:45] after yourself. [24:46] >> Absolutely. I agree. You have to [24:50] >> So if you're looking at the WordPress [24:52] community now, what do you think we do [24:55] well as a community and what do you [24:57] think we can improve on? [25:02] >> I know that's a tough question. [25:04] >> Yeah, we do a lot of things as well. We [25:06] do we do a lot of I think I read a post [25:08] about contributor day somewhere where [25:11] somebody talked about their experience [25:13] at contribution day and how they're [25:16] seeing a pattern you know and they think [25:18] this is what can be improved on you know [25:21] that post was interesting [25:23] was published recently I don't remember [25:25] who uh um but then was also thinking [25:29] like we we are doing a lot already in [25:33] the WordPress community because it's not [25:34] easy to get people together uh for one [25:37] shared purpose, right? Right. So, that's [25:39] already a lot. But I would say what we [25:42] could do better or what we could do [25:44] better. So, I wouldn't say we're not [25:46] doing enough, but because we're doing a [25:48] lot, right? But what I would say we [25:50] could do better uh would be uh to uh [25:53] marketing efforts, [25:56] educating business owners, right? [25:58] Because if if we have business owners [26:02] who are intentional about where their [26:04] site is built, if we have those group of [26:07] people also uh giving back to the [26:10] ecosystem, it would help also grow the [26:14] trae the trajectory will go like a bit [26:16] higher that it already is because I [26:19] think by now we we should not be doing [26:22] like 40%. We've been stuck at 40% for a [26:24] while. I don't know if you noticed we've [26:26] been stuck at 40%. [26:28] balanced, you know, but we need to go up [26:30] because um so we need to do more and [26:34] then we need to reach out to the next [26:35] generation because the next generation [26:38] and business owners because the [26:40] attention span for the next generation. [26:43] So my daughter told me recently and I [26:45] told her like I saw you you open the web [26:47] site, right? [26:49] >> Oh no. [26:51] >> Yeah. They give her a school homework. [26:53] She has a WordPress uh blog. She has a [26:55] WordPress website. They give her a [26:57] WordPress uh so they give her them an [26:59] homework to create a website and she had [27:01] told me about it. Of course, she knows [27:03] I'm going to tell her to do it on [27:04] WordPress, you know, but she didn't say [27:08] anything about it again. So later when I [27:10] checked up on the assignment, I was [27:11] like, you sub like it was so easy and [27:15] straightforward. I'm like, what do you [27:16] mean? [27:18] What do you mean? It was are you saying [27:20] that process? It's like no that that was [27:23] just drag and drop, you know. But on a [27:26] more serious note, I feel like we are [27:28] leaving that generation behind. [27:31] We need to bring them in one way or the [27:34] other, right? We we need to bring I'm [27:37] not saying bring them in by password, [27:39] but I'm saying we need to let them see [27:41] what is possible, right? What is [27:43] achievable within the ecosystem, you [27:46] know, and then let them make their [27:47] decision. I'm pretty positive that you [27:51] know if we had some efforts or how to [27:53] reach that targeted that generation and [27:56] those uh and business owners I feel like [27:58] would would be able to convince them to [28:01] see the value and the benefit that can [28:03] be uh uh gotten from the ecosystem. [28:09] >> Well, I know uh recently there have been [28:11] some efforts at universities. There is a [28:13] WordPress credits program. I actually um [28:16] one of the episodes that'll be hasn't [28:18] come out yet while while we're speaking [28:20] that'll be coming out soon um about how [28:23] uh the university in Pisa Italy is is [28:26] actually teaching WordPress and giving [28:28] students credit for that learning time [28:30] and they're learning how to contribute [28:32] to open source. I think if we can grow [28:35] that, you know, because we don't have [28:37] like where I am in the United States, [28:39] the word camps have really gone away. we [28:42] we only have word camp us now and a [28:44] couple of small events and so we don't [28:47] have these big gettogethers anymore [28:48] where we can kind of show everybody [28:50] WordPress. So I think if we can get [28:51] people at the university levels and even [28:54] at the high school levels that that [28:56] that's where we're going to to get you [28:58] know more people to come in and [29:00] contribute to the community cuz as you [29:02] said that's very important. [29:02] >> I totally agree. I totally agree with [29:05] you and you know like you said [29:06] contribution is not just about code. Uh [29:09] the one area that I think is often [29:11] overlooked is the polygots. The polygots [29:14] it's a big deal because it's languages [29:17] it's different people's languages. I [29:18] imagine being able to navigate uh [29:22] WordPress in my local language. Not that [29:24] I can read it very well, but I mean that [29:26] would be so cool, right? Uh and then our [29:30] parents could actually like navigate, [29:32] you know, and then people who can speak [29:33] along can like navigate that. That would [29:35] be so cool. So I think that's also one [29:37] angle where it's underrated and it's [29:41] also a great way to get you know this [29:44] that generation to actually like take [29:46] part you know in contributing to [29:49] WordPress. [29:50] >> That's a good point. Yeah, we we I know [29:53] um you know WordPress is very global. [29:56] It's in every corner of the world and [29:58] many languages are spoken and if if we [30:00] can get the software into as many [30:02] languages as possible, we're going to I [30:05] mean that's going to lead to more growth [30:07] in in areas where it maybe isn't the uh [30:10] number one choice. [30:12] >> I agree with you. I agree with you. [30:14] Totally. [30:17] >> Well, Mary, I I thank you for being on. [30:20] Um, I is there anything else you'd like [30:22] to tell us about uh about what you're [30:24] doing with your consulting work or even [30:26] your contributions to WordPress? [30:29] >> Well, not not at this time because I'm [30:32] I'm actually working on a a program [30:35] which I'm supposed to try and pray. So, [30:37] I'm trying to work on a program where [30:40] it's l literally saying um it's it's [30:44] totally okay to be a volunteer, but I [30:47] think it's a bit unfair when you put all [30:49] your passion and all your time and all [30:51] your expertise and skills into that and [30:54] it doesn't pay you right because at the [30:57] end of the day, everybody needs to get [31:00] paid, right? So there is it is possible [31:04] for us to get to to be creative about [31:06] that to build sustainability to [31:08] volunteer that sustainably in such a way [31:10] that it also sustains us. So I'm getting [31:12] a program around that uh which is what [31:14] I've been working on and uh I'm trying [31:17] to work out like a 8week uh uh program [31:20] around that so that it's reusable [31:21] content and it's useful for uh anyone [31:24] who's in the volunteering space whether [31:26] it's with a business NGO building [31:28] communities you know anywhere you're [31:31] building because like I said at the end [31:34] of the day it's all about people. [31:38] >> Well that's great. I I think [31:40] contribution and and getting paid for [31:42] contribution, you know, especially with [31:44] some of some of the hard work that gets [31:45] put in that that's a big deal. Um, a lot [31:48] of people simply can't afford to to give [31:50] give away all of their time. [31:52] >> And so, you know, getting [31:54] >> getting, you know, some sort of [31:56] compensation system, I think, would be [31:57] wonderful and and help a lot without [32:00] losing the focus on [32:02] >> why you're giving back. You could give [32:04] back. You could give to people without [32:06] losing. you could still do what you love [32:09] to do, which is giving back, [32:10] volunteering, but also uh creative ways [32:13] to get paid sustainably. I think that [32:16] bit is important and often overlooked. [32:19] Uh because we think that if you're [32:21] giving back, you should get any uh [32:23] payment at all whatsoever. But like I [32:26] said, at the end of the day, we are [32:27] human beings, right? We have families, [32:29] we have things we're doing outside of [32:32] that work, right? I mean, if you're [32:34] hungry, how do you feed somebody else? [32:36] you count. [32:38] >> That's a great point. I I I think it's [32:41] um it's something that I know the [32:43] WordPress community has um debated for a [32:45] long time. So, I'm interested to see [32:47] what your program is. Uh where can [32:49] people uh connect with you online? [32:52] >> My website, maryjube.com. [32:56] >> All right. Well, [32:57] >> no, no, no. I was just going to say on [32:58] my website and on Twitter once in a [33:00] while. I don't hang out on Twitter. I [33:02] refuse to call it X. I don't hang out on [33:04] Twitter. I don't want to call it X [33:08] >> but yes but on my website no one can [33:10] reach me anytime on my website at any [33:13] time you know I respond to me it was [33:15] faster than actually social media [33:20] >> I do the same thing well I I um I will [33:22] put the link to your website in the show [33:24] notes for sure um and I will also put a [33:26] link to your Hero Press essay because it [33:28] is wonderful and I I think your story is [33:30] is so inspiring how um going from [33:32] philosophy to WordPress I think is just [33:34] a beautiful thing. [33:35] >> Yeah, thank you. [33:38] >> Well, thank you for being part of the [33:39] show and I want to thank everybody for [33:41] watching and listening here. Uh, and [33:43] please visit us over at [33:44] thewpmin.com/subscribe. [33:47] You can get our newsletter. Uh, keep up [33:49] to date with everything we're doing and [33:51] you can also become a member. Join our [33:52] Slack community for free. Uh thanks and [33:55] we'll see you again next  📄 **Full text:** ![[Full Document Contents/Articles/The Keys to a Sustainable WordPress Community|The Keys to a Sustainable WordPress Community, YouTube]] ## Highlights - coming back to Nigeria after my program, you know, uh I then thought, oh wait, there has to be a community because then I started building sites, you know, buying domains. I didn't know what all of those were, you know, cuz I wasn't playing in that field. And I remember asking myself like there has to be like, you know, I found myself on make. WordPress.org, for you know I I always say like I didn't just stumble like I deliberately seek out a community which is interesting in my case I deliberately ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01kkw08dgyab0wzcpgpntxjhbb)) - Tags: 👻 ai highlighted - selling to robots, you're selling to humans, to people, to communities. So, that's what got me here. >> Well, I I I know like we've we've talked about burnout in the WordPress community before with people, especially with event organizing a and different volunteer roles like that. So, I can understand why you you know, I I've seen all the things that you've accomplished on your WordPress.org profile. You've done core committing and translations and all these different things. I can ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01kkw08djcj73cwh4h1sm7r820)) - Tags: 👻 ai highlighted - I'm excited about, you know, doing this all over again. Now I have a lot of energy. Of course. Of course. Now I know better. Now I know how to, which is what I'm essentially consulting for. Now I know how to build that community without B. how how to you know yeah how to build strategies to for that community or for any community work that I'm doing without burning out myself that that's a very important thing I I I cuz I imagine in the WordPress community and any open- ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01kkw08dk38r8kv286bmnq2313)) - Tags: 👻 ai highlighted - built on WordPress." They were being intentional about reaching out. >> It's it's it's not hard. I mean, it's not simple. It's not easy, but businesses need to be intentional about this things. You need to don't wait until the the community finds you. Find the community. It's open source software. Find it. Give back to no matter how little. >> Well, I I think that's an important point because we often think about contribution and my mind immediately ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01kkw08dmsht8n68kzwh3cb1tz)) - Tags: 👻 ai highlighted - great. They they I they see that oh no, they understand that what that the website you know is built on an opensource software and they were so eager to give back. So I feel like if every business owner could do that who has a website building on WordPress, the ecosystem will become so much larger. There's space for everybody. >> Exactly. Yeah. I mean no matter how small the contribution, it all makes a difference. Yes. >> Even if you go ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01kkw08dpcd377gw8acndyw89q)) - Tags: 👻 ai highlighted - I'm taking >> that's a very wise strategy. >> Yeah. >> It's easy to get overwhelmed when you start doing that. that stuff especially at at a volunteer level where you're you're out there helping everybody but at the same time you need to to look after yourself. >> Absolutely. I agree. You have to >> So if you're looking at the WordPress community now, what do you think we do well as a community and what do you think we can improve on? ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01kkw08dr7pb112g2k9qw02dbd)) - Tags: 👻 ai highlighted