This Week in WordPress #375 - CourtneyR.dev's 2nd Brain

This Week in WordPress #375 ![rw-book-cover](https://img.youtube.com/vi/rbF3rXOKUFE/maxresdefault.jpg) 🔗 **Source:** [This Week in WordPress #375](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbF3rXOKUFE) > [!note]+ Document Notes > tags: [wordpress-community, contributor-metrics, ai-security, wordcamp-europe] > author: [MISSING] > source: WP Builds > reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbF3rXOKUFE > date created: {{date:YYYY-MM-DD}} {{time:HH:mm}} > > # 🏷️ Title: This Week in WordPress #375 >  ## 🧭 Table of Contents - [📝 Summary](#-summary) - [📖 Main Content](#-main-content) - [🗒️ Notes](#️-notes) - [📚 References](#-references) - [🗣️ Paraphrase](#️-paraphrase) - [📰 Newsletter](#-newsletter) - [✅ Action Items](#-action-items) - [🧪 Hypotheses](#-hypotheses) - [📊 Methodology](#-methodology) - [❓ Questions](#-questions) - [🔮 Future Research](#-future-research) - [💡 Implications](#-implications) - [🧠 Learning Styles Assessment](#-learning-styles-assessment) - [📊 Accessibility Assessment](#-accessibility-assessment) - [🌍 DEIB Assessment](#-deib-assessment) - [✅ Logical Validity](#-logical-validity) - [🛡️ DARVO Analysis](#-darvo-analysis) - [🎯 Conclusion](#-conclusion) ## 📝 Summary - WordPress implements 24-hour security delays for plugin updates due to AI-accelerated vulnerability discovery - Contributor metrics show concerning decline: from 1.4M contributions in 2020 to 486K in last 12 months - WordCamp Europe 2024 in Krakow successfully hosted 2,600+ attendees with strong community engagement - Gutenberg 23.3 introduces experimental customizable dashboard with drag-and-drop widgets - Security landscape dramatically shifts as AI tools make vulnerability discovery exponentially faster ## 📖 Main Content The WordPress ecosystem faces significant security and community challenges as revealed in this comprehensive discussion. Matt Mullenweg's "Protect the Shire" announcement introduces mandatory 24-hour security review delays for plugin updates, responding to AI's transformation of cybersecurity threats. Chrome's recent 429 security patches exemplify how AI now discovers vulnerabilities in minutes rather than hours. Community metrics reveal troubling trends: WordPress contributions dropped from 1.4 million in 2020 to 486,000 in the last 12 months, with contributor numbers falling from 240,000 to 102,000 over the same period. This 50% decline in active contributors raises questions about project sustainability and community engagement strategies. WordCamp Europe 2024 provided counterbalancing optimism, with 2,600+ attendees across four floors in Krakow creating an intimate yet bustling atmosphere. The age demographic appeared more diverse than expected, though concerns persist about long-term youth engagement in WordPress development. ## 🗒️ Notes #### ⏱️ [00:00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbF3rXOKUFE&t=0) Introduction and Panel Setup - Host Nathan Wrigley introduces panel: Michelle Frechette (Post Status), Mark Benzakane (MainWP), Steve Burge (PublishPress) - Steve's pet rabbit "Fluffy in Russian" becomes unexpected co-host - Technical difficulties demonstrate live streaming challenges #### ⏱️ [00:10:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbF3rXOKUFE&t=600) AI Security Crisis Discussion - Matt Mullenweg's "Protect the Shire" introduces 24-hour plugin review delays - Chrome browser required 429 security patches in recent release - AI transforms vulnerability discovery from hours to minutes - Wordfence reports 23.7% rise in total vulnerabilities published #### ⏱️ [00:25:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbF3rXOKUFE&t=1500) Patchstack Bug Bounty Problems - AI-generated "hallucinated" security reports flooding bug bounty programs - Temporary bans implemented for submitting AI-generated false reports - Plugin developers receiving weekly notifications about blocked nonsense reports #### ⏱️ [00:35:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbF3rXOKUFE&t=2100) WordCamp Europe 2024 Recap - 2,600+ attendees across four floors in Krakow - Venue design created intimate atmosphere despite large scale - Age demographics appeared more diverse than expected - CERN keynote: "Two Worlds Collide: WordPress at CERN" #### ⏱️ [00:50:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbF3rXOKUFE&t=3000) Contributor Dashboard Analysis - WordPress contribution decline: 1.4M (2020) to 486K (last 12 months) - Contributor numbers dropped 50%: 240K (2020) to 102K (current) - Comparison with Drupal metrics shows similar decline patterns - wpcontributor-b.org provides transparency but raises sustainability concerns #### ⏱️ [01:00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbF3rXOKUFE&t=3600) Dashboard Redesign Discussion - Gutenberg 23.3 experimental customizable dashboard - Drag-and-drop widgets with masonry layout options - Panel questions utility: most users bypass dashboard entirely - Potential for role-based customization and real-time collaboration features ## 📚 References - [Matt Mullenweg's "Protect the Shire" announcement](https://wordpress.org/news) - [Wordfence Quarterly Security Report](https://www.wordfence.com) - [Patchstack Bug Bounty Program](https://patchstack.com) - [WordPress Contributor Dashboard](https://wpcontributor-b.org) - [WordCamp Europe 2024 recap](https://europe.wordcamp.org) ## 🗣️ Paraphrase WordPress faces a dual crisis of security and community sustainability. AI has fundamentally altered cybersecurity, forcing emergency measures like 24-hour plugin review delays. Simultaneously, contributor numbers have halved since 2020, raising existential questions about project longevity. While WordCamp Europe demonstrated continued community vitality with strong attendance, underlying metrics suggest concerning trends. The experimental dashboard redesign attempts modernization, but panel consensus suggests limited practical utility for most users. Security teams now battle AI-generated false reports while legitimate vulnerabilities multiply exponentially. ## 📰 Newsletter WordPress security enters a new era this week as AI transforms the threat landscape overnight! Matt Mullenweg's "Protect the Shire" initiative introduces 24-hour security reviews for plugin updates - a dramatic response to AI's ability to discover vulnerabilities in minutes rather than hours. Meanwhile, our community metrics reveal both challenges and opportunities: while contributor numbers have declined significantly since 2020, WordCamp Europe's 2,600+ attendees in stunning Krakow proved our ecosystem's enduring vitality. Plus, Gutenberg 23.3 brings experimental dashboard customization - perfect for agencies managing multiple client sites. Check out the new WordPress Contributor Dashboard for transparency into project health, and don't miss the CERN keynote about WordPress powering the birthplace of the web! ## ✅ Action Items #### WordPress Core - Monitor impact of 24-hour security review delays on critical patches - Develop expedited review process for emergency security updates - Enhance AI-powered security scanning accuracy and speed - Create contributor onboarding programs targeting younger developers #### Community - Address declining contributor metrics through targeted retention programs - Expand Campus Connect and WP Credits initiatives for youth engagement - Develop mentorship programs pairing experienced contributors with newcomers - Create clearer pathways for new contributors to understand involvement options #### Security - Implement AI-powered security scanning similar to wordpress.org - Develop automated detection for AI-generated false security reports - Create transparent security review process documentation - Establish emergency protocols for zero-day vulnerabilities during review periods #### Plugin Developers - Prepare for 24-hour deployment delays in release schedules - Implement pre-submission security testing using AI tools - Document critical security patch procedures for expedited review - Establish communication protocols with plugin review team ## 🧪 Hypotheses - WordPress contributor decline correlates with broader open-source sustainability challenges - AI-powered security scanning will reduce false positives while increasing legitimate vulnerability detection - Younger developer engagement requires different community touchpoints than traditional WordCamps - Dashboard customization features will see higher adoption among agency and enterprise users - Security review delays will initially slow plugin ecosystem velocity but improve overall security posture ### 📊 Methodology - Longitudinal analysis of WordPress contributor dashboard metrics across 5-year periods - Comparative study with other open-source projects (Drupal, Joomla) for decline patterns - WordCamp attendance demographic surveys to quantify age distribution concerns - A/B testing of dashboard configurations across different user roles and use cases - Security incident tracking before and after 24-hour review implementation ### ❓ Questions - How can WordPress attract younger developers without alienating experienced contributors? - Will 24-hour security delays significantly impact plugin ecosystem innovation speed? - What specific onboarding barriers prevent new contributors from engaging with WordPress? - How do contributor metrics correlate with actual project health and functionality? - Can AI security scanning achieve sufficient accuracy to reduce review delays? ### 🔮 Future Research - Long-term contributor retention strategies in open-source ecosystems - AI impact on cybersecurity across different software platforms - WordCamp format evolution to attract diverse age demographics - Dashboard usage patterns across different WordPress user segments - Economic models for sustainable open-source community development ### 💡 Implications **Security**: WordPress must balance innovation speed with security rigor as AI accelerates threat discovery. **Community**: Declining contributor numbers signal need for fundamental engagement strategy revision. **Education**: Traditional conference formats may require evolution to attract younger developers. **Development**: Plugin developers must adapt workflows to accommodate security review delays. **Sustainability**: Long-term project health depends on successfully reversing contributor decline trends. ### 🧠 Learning Styles Assessment Reading level: Grade 12 (Flesch-Kincaid formula) #### 👀 Visual learners - Present: Dashboard screenshots, contributor metric charts, WordCamp photo galleries - Improve: Security workflow diagrams, contributor journey visualizations, demographic infographics #### 🔊 Aural learners - Present: Live podcast discussion format, panel conversations - Improve: Audio summaries of key metrics, interview segments with community leaders #### 🗣️ Verbal learners - Present: Clear terminology definitions, analogies (Chrome's 429 patches) - Improve: Glossary for technical terms, plain-language security explanations #### 🧩 Kinesthetic learners - Present: Interactive contributor dashboard exploration - Improve: Hands-on security testing tutorials, dashboard customization workshops #### 🧠 Logical learners - Present: Metric comparisons, trend analysis, cause-effect relationships - Improve: Decision trees for security reviews, contributor pathway flowcharts #### 🧑‍🤝‍🧑 Social learners - Present: Panel discussion format, community event coverage - Improve: Discussion prompts for community groups, collaborative problem-solving exercises #### 🧘‍♀️ Solitary learners - Present: Individual metric exploration, self-guided dashboard tours - Improve: Reflection questions on community involvement, personal action planning worksheets ### 📊 Accessibility Assessment #### Screen reader semantics - Present: Clear heading structure, descriptive video timestamps - Improve: Alt text for dashboard screenshots, transcript availability #### Keyboard navigation - Present: Standard video player controls, accessible live chat options - Improve: Dashboard keyboard shortcuts documentation, focus indicators #### Contrast and readability - Present: Clear text against backgrounds in shared screens - Improve: High-contrast dashboard themes, larger text options for metrics #### Media and captions - Present: Full transcript provided, audio-only option available - Improve: Synchronized captions, audio descriptions for visual dashboard elements ### 🌍 DEIB Assessment #### Cultural breadth - Present: International WordCamp coverage, global contributor perspectives - Improve: Non-English community representation, timezone-diverse event coverage #### Inclusive language - Present: Gender-neutral terms, jargon explanations - Improve: Plain-language security concepts, accessibility-first feature descriptions #### Neurodiversity support - Present: Structured format, consistent timestamps - Improve: Content warnings for rapid technical discussions, processing time between topics #### Representation - Present: Diverse panel backgrounds, international event focus - Improve: Age-diverse perspectives on contributor trends, underrepresented community voices ### ✅ Logical Validity #### Strong reasoning - Causal analysis linking AI capabilities to security timeline compression demonstrates solid inductive reasoning - Statistical trend analysis using contributor dashboard data provides strong empirical foundation - Comparative analysis with Drupal metrics strengthens pattern recognition validity #### Fallacies - Hasty generalization: Drawing broad conclusions about community health from single data source (contributor metrics) - Post hoc reasoning: Assuming contributor decline directly causes security issues without establishing clear causation - Anecdotal evidence: WordCamp age demographics based on casual observation rather than systematic data #### Tone of voice - Conversational and accessible, balancing technical accuracy with community warmth - Appropriately concerned about trends while maintaining constructive optimism - Inclusive of multiple perspectives without false equivalencies ### 🛡️ DARVO Analysis No DARVO patterns detected in this community-focused technical discussion. Content maintains collaborative problem-solving approach without defensive rhetoric or victim-blaming narratives. ## 🎯 Conclusion WordPress stands at a critical inflection point where AI has simultaneously created urgent security challenges and exposed concerning community sustainability trends. The 24-hour plugin review delay represents necessary adaptation to an accelerated threat landscape, but success depends on maintaining development velocity while improving security outcomes. More critically, the 50% decline in contributors since 2020 demands immediate attention through targeted onboarding, mentorship, and engagement programs. WordCamp Europe's success demonstrates continued community vitality, but traditional engagement models may require evolution to attract younger developers essential for long-term sustainability. The path forward requires balancing security imperatives with community growth while leveraging AI tools defensively rather than allowing them to overwhelm existing systems. --- ## Full Transcript [02:00] Good morning, good evening, good [02:02] afternoon, hello wherever you are on [02:04] planet Earth. I imagine nobody else is [02:07] is watching this outside of that [02:10] introduction. [02:12] >> A friend of mine was I'm going to go on [02:14] a total segue. I I told this story and [02:16] it so it's fresh in my mind. a friend of [02:18] mine when I was about 20 years old got a [02:20] a record deal. Um, and there was a [02:23] really big deal and it turned out it [02:24] didn't actually go anywhere, but in the [02:27] contract that he signed, their music [02:29] could be distributed and this was [02:32] literally in black and white in the [02:34] Earth and its solar system. Isn't that [02:37] weird that the record label would like [02:39] think, okay, this is going to be a hit [02:41] on Mars or Jupiter or whatever. Anyway, [02:44] >> they're just hedging that they're [02:45] hedging their bets just in case. [02:47] >> Right. That's right. Because imagine if [02:48] the next Beatles came along where [02:50] there's like I don't know years of [02:52] playing it. He wasn't the next Beatles, [02:55] it turns out. Anyway, there we go. Uh, [02:57] thank you for joining us. It's number [02:59] 375 of this week in WordPress. We're [03:02] going to talk a lot about WordPress, the [03:04] community, and all the other bits and [03:06] pieces that we usually do. We'll be here [03:08] for about 90 minutes. If you fancy [03:10] getting your friends, colleagues, [03:12] relations, and all of that involved, [03:13] we'd love that. The the simple URL to [03:16] send people to would be this one, which [03:18] is being being modeled by the wonderful [03:20] Steve Burge. Uh, at the moment, it's [03:23] wpbuilds.comlive. [03:26] Once more, wpbuilds.comlive. [03:29] Go and stick that into the socials of [03:30] your choice. And if you go over there, [03:32] then uh you got a couple of choices in [03:34] terms of comments. If you're on desktop, [03:36] over on the right is YouTube comments. [03:39] So if you're logged into Google, you can [03:40] make comments over there. Uh one or two [03:42] people have already done that. However, [03:44] if you don't have a Google account or a [03:46] YouTube account, there's an option [03:47] buried inside the player itself. Top [03:50] right, it says live chat. I believe you [03:52] can use that. You don't need to be [03:53] logged into anything whatsoever. So [03:57] let's go around the uh the panel and get [03:59] some introductions. Um we're joined, [04:02] let's go in the corner, bottom corner [04:04] there. We're joined by Michelle Fchett. [04:06] How you doing? I am good. I just had a [04:09] week of vacation. [04:10] >> Oh, did you? Oh, lovely. I've just seen [04:13] your little [04:14] >> Gone. Sorry. Carry on. [04:15] >> I could I couldn't go to Word Camp [04:17] Europe, so instead my boyfriend and I [04:19] took a a vacation down the New England [04:22] coast. [04:23] >> Oh, the US. [04:24] >> Oh, lovely. That sounds really nice of [04:27] Boston, Connecticut, and New York City. [04:29] It was awesome. [04:30] >> Lovely stuff. I've just noticed your [04:32] moniker, you know, where where mine says [04:34] other way. where mine says WP builds [04:36] like that and Steve says Polish press. [04:38] Yours says WP Jill of all trades. I like [04:40] that. [04:41] >> I have so many things going on. I [04:43] couldn't pick one. [04:44] >> Yeah, that's a good it's a good idea. Uh [04:46] I'll read your uh your bio into the [04:48] record. [04:49] >> Yeah. And we'll get some idea of that. [04:51] So Michelle Pricette, there she is, is [04:53] the executive director of Post Status. [04:55] And in addition to the work over there, [04:56] Michelle is the podcast producer at WP [04:58] Coffee Talk, co-founder of [05:00] Underrepresented in Tech and WP [05:02] Speakers. Also involved in WP Career [05:05] Pages, co-founder of Sponsor Me WP Speed [05:08] Network Online. She likes to write and [05:11] so therefore is an author, influencer, [05:13] and a frequent organizer and speaker at [05:15] WordPress and tech events living outside [05:17] of Rochester, New York. She is an avid [05:20] nature photographer and if you want to [05:22] check out the whole thing in one URL, [05:24] meet Michelle online is the way to do [05:28] it. That is to say, meet Michelle dot [05:30] online is the way. [05:32] >> Got to put the dot in the right place. [05:33] >> Got to put the dot in the right place. [05:35] Yeah, indeed. It's kind of curious. [05:37] That's still a There must be a better [05:39] way than having dots in URL. Is there no [05:41] way that we could get rid of the dots at [05:43] some point? Would it be possible? [05:44] >> I think we could have. Yeah. until they [05:47] added all of the different various [05:48] extensions. Now you have to have it [05:50] because people won't know. [05:52] >> Yeah, that's a good point. We could [05:53] Yeah. Okay. All right. It's not a bad [05:55] idea. [05:55] >> Otherwise [05:57] fish. [05:58] >> I don't I don't know the the the dots up [06:00] there with the Oxford comma. You'll kind [06:02] of pry it from my cold dead hand. [06:04] >> Okay. [06:05] >> So, I've heard the I heard the online [06:08] extension twice in one day now after [06:11] never having heard of it before. [06:13] >> Oh. because [06:14] >> didn't didn't um [06:16] >> Yoast [06:17] >> Yoast joined your [06:21] >> Yeah. [06:22] >> which made my grammatical head hurt a [06:23] little bit. [06:24] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, Yoast, Ma, [06:27] and I believe Taco and a bunch of other [06:28] people have got into that. I'm going to [06:30] going to feature that a little bit [06:31] later. I haven't got enough intel on [06:32] that just yet, so it hasn't really [06:34] featured in this week's show, but at [06:35] some point in the near future, I'll do a [06:37] podcast recording hopefully with one of [06:38] them and get the skinny on that. Okay. [06:41] So, there's Michelle, but also we're [06:42] joined by Mark. Mark is um Mark. Oh, [06:47] it's like 4:00 a.m. or something over [06:49] there at the minute. And so, [06:50] >> I love how you exaggerate how early it [06:52] is here. What time is it? If it if it if [06:55] it uh you know [06:58] gets any sympathy, then yeah, it's 4 in [07:00] the morning. No, it's it's [07:03] >> six. [07:04] >> It's still six. I mean, I was found [07:06] asleep at 6. [07:07] >> It's still pretty early. I don't like [07:09] seeing six o'clock ever. Here we go [07:11] though. Mark Benzakine or Benzakane I [07:14] should say. Sorry about that. Mark is [07:16] the partnerships and community lead at [07:18] MainWP [07:20] where he works with plug-in developers, [07:22] agencies, hosts, and service providers [07:23] to help expand what's possible within [07:25] the WordPress open source ecosystem. A [07:28] longtime WordPress professional, Mark is [07:30] passionate about collaboration, [07:31] community building, and finding [07:33] practical ways for businesses to help [07:35] benefit from open-source technology [07:37] while maintaining ownership and control [07:39] of their websites. [07:41] Okie dokie. Thanks for joining us, Mark. [07:44] And finally, [07:44] >> thanks for having me. [07:45] >> Down there, Steve Burge. I've already [07:48] said his name out loud. How you doing, [07:49] Steve? You all right? [07:50] >> Yeah, doing good. Thanks. [07:52] >> Good, good, good. So, Steve is the [07:54] founder of Publish Press. If you go and [07:57] Google that, you'll be able to see all [07:58] of the wonderful things they do. Um, and [08:00] Publish Press, help make plugins to [08:03] improve your WordPress publishing. He's [08:05] from England. I don't need to say [08:06] anymore. It's as good as it gets. He [08:09] lives in Florida. Has an extra friend [08:12] with him on the podcast today. Oh, you [08:14] do? Who's your ex? [08:17] >> So, it's the summer vacation here. Like, [08:20] I know for people in England, this is a [08:22] little weird, but school basically is [08:24] out already. Yeah. [08:26] >> And so lots of my kids friends have gone [08:30] off on vacation. They're in [08:31] >> Okay. [08:32] >> We're in Florida. They've gone to People [08:34] basically go to the mountains from [08:35] Florida. [08:36] >> They go to North Carolina, Colorado, [08:39] anywhere where it's cooler. So my kids [08:43] have basically accumulated a ton of [08:44] animals, other people's pets. [08:48] >> We're we're basically animal sitting a [08:50] ton. So one of them has taken a [08:53] particular liking to my office. Oh, this [08:56] is an iguana or something. I really want [08:59] to see what this is. WHAT YOU GOT? OH. [09:01] OH, that's Stop the Hold the phone. [09:07] >> We just end it there. This is the [09:09] highlight already. [09:11] >> And he's been hanging out with me for [09:13] like a whole week now in the office. [09:16] >> Yeah. [09:16] >> Well, the fact that you The fact that [09:19] you brought this glorious, fairly large [09:21] rabbit Yes. um onto the show. It tells [09:24] me that not only has the rabbit taken a [09:26] liking to you, Steve, but I think that's [09:28] it. Reciprocal, isn't it? You seem to [09:30] quite like the rabbit. [09:32] >> I never really liked rabbits before, but [09:34] this one has been great. Um [09:38] it just [09:38] >> it's a potty trained rabbit, so I can [09:41] let it go around the office. [09:43] >> Well, Michelle has a cat, which I'm [09:45] expecting to wander in at some point. If [09:47] you leave the rabbit on your keyboard, [09:49] we could see what fun that would have [09:50] during the course of Joe, how how long [09:54] did you get through it before your [09:55] screen went dark? There is our panel [09:59] though. Uh we're joined by three people [10:01] and a rabbit and maybe a cat in just a [10:04] moment. We'll see how that goes. [10:05] >> I think she's sleeping behind the screen [10:07] right now. So, [10:07] >> oh dear. Oh dear. Cancel. Oh no. [10:13] >> Come back. [10:15] Uh [10:15] >> oh. Uh [10:16] >> oh. [10:17] >> Well, so um so how you guys doing? Yeah, [10:22] >> the um the rabbit's name is apparently [10:24] fluffy but in Russian. [10:27] >> Oh, can you pronounce it in Russ? Okay. [10:30] I wouldn't know either. [10:32] >> That was fun. Uh this is this is an [10:36] example. [10:38] >> This is a situation where Nathan needs [10:40] to take care of which red button he's [10:42] about to press. [10:45] >> You didn't you didn't have a cat walk [10:47] across the keyboard or anything. [10:48] >> No, I've got no excuses. Oh my goodness. [10:51] >> So many times. So, dear listener, if you [10:54] were uh just listening to that, [10:55] basically what I did was I booted myself [10:57] out of the call, which is hysterical. Uh [11:00] anyway, there we go. [11:01] >> We found out [11:02] >> it was amazing how much we got to talk [11:03] to you behind your [11:05] >> So, we'll knock it on the head there. [11:06] You got 19. [11:07] >> Yeah, [11:09] >> we'll call it a day. Uh [11:10] >> we found out the rabbit's name while you [11:12] were gone. [11:13] >> Oh, okay. And [11:15] >> fluffy, but in Russian, [11:18] >> which is what? How do you say that in in [11:20] English? What's the [11:22] >> my my my daughter just calls it Fluffy [11:24] in Russian. [11:25] >> Oh, that'll do. [11:26] >> What's the rabbit's new name? [11:27] >> That'll do. [11:28] >> There you go. [11:29] >> Okay. Anyway, I was trying to say at [11:30] that point that there is our panel. This [11:32] is the uh the Mly crew that we've [11:35] assembled for today's show. So, [11:36] hopefully if you've got any comments, uh [11:39] let us know. What I was trying to do was [11:41] I was trying to click the live chat [11:43] button so that I could view some of the [11:45] comments. And the live chat button is [11:47] dangerously close to the drop yourself [11:49] out of the call button. It would appear. [11:52] But here we go. We got a few little [11:54] comments coming up. So the rabbit needs [11:55] to be added to your puppy's kittens [11:57] lamb's loop. That's a good point. I [12:00] should add that. And you mean the [12:07] I'll add some rabbits to it. Uh, thank [12:09] you very much. We'll do that. Uh, what [12:11] else have we got? Thank you for joining [12:13] us, by the way. Now, Gerard, yes, [12:16] Gerard, get in. I got your name first [12:18] time with [12:20] That's the first time. Hello. Nice to [12:22] have you with us. Oh, all right. You're [12:26] there first. Fine. That's okay. Did [12:28] press I did press all the red buttons. [12:30] Uh, this is um Web Squadron. I am sorry [12:34] about this. Yeah, it seems like our path [12:36] did not cross at Word Camp EU. I [12:37] responded to that by saying that I [12:40] usually go to these events and end up in [12:41] a closet with a mic. And that's exactly [12:43] what happened this time. There was media [12:45] rooms and they're always out on the far [12:46] periphery of everything. [12:48] >> I was basically in there. So sorry I [12:50] didn't see you. That would have been [12:51] nice. Um, shall I get the first weather [12:54] report in? Says Full Works Plugins. [12:56] Yeah, let's do it. Okay. Good afternoon [12:58] from a gray woking near London. [13:01] Intermittent showers 14° centigrade. [13:04] Allen. Now, I don't know what kind of [13:06] weather Allan is, but [13:09] it's it's looking a bit Allan out there, [13:11] >> but I'm ching. [13:12] >> Yeah, that joke. Uh, thank you, Alan, [13:15] for joining us. Really appreciate it. [13:17] I'm self-deating, says Web Squadron [13:19] again, if I should attend Word Camp US, [13:21] the flight times doesn't feel appealing. [13:23] So, as regards Word Camp US, uh, it's [13:27] going to be hot, and I don't think it's [13:28] going to be hot like in a way that you [13:30] and I, uh, from the UK can can, uh, can [13:33] really understand. And I think it's like [13:35] 45 67° centigrade. So, uh yeah, give it [13:40] give it some. [13:40] >> But it's a dry heat. [13:42] >> Okay. Does that Does that help? [13:44] >> That's what that's what they say. Yeah. [13:46] >> And actually [13:49] it Yeah, but it does help in that you [13:52] know how um when it gets really hot and [13:54] humid uh you feel like you can't [13:57] breathe. At least in a dry heat, [14:01] it's a little bit more tolerable. But [14:03] honestly, it's going to be hot. [14:06] >> Okay. I mean, [14:07] >> you have to hydrate. Hydrate. [14:08] >> And I'm from California and it's going [14:10] to be hot. [14:11] >> Yeah. [14:12] >> Well, all I'm going to say is that if [14:14] you're I I checked it out. The Grand [14:16] Canyon is 333 [14:19] odd miles drive away. So, if you do go, [14:21] there is that like spectacle that might [14:23] be worth dropping into your [14:25] >> It's like a 5 hour drive. [14:26] >> Yeah. It's not too bad, is it? Well, for [14:29] for Brits, that's like the entire [14:31] country, but uh if you look on the map [14:34] of Arizona, it's like a tiny little bit [14:36] of it. Uh so that's maybe worth thinking [14:38] about. And he says he carries on if [14:40] things align, I may go to Word Camp Asia [14:42] and the proposed new flagship Word Camp [14:44] India. It'll be like a grand slam of [14:46] WC's. Oh, that's nice. Yeah, [14:48] >> Reesew. Hello, folks. Good seeing you at [14:51] Word Camp EU. Yeah, it was nice to see [14:54] you as well, Ree. Lovely. Lovely. And [14:55] then we got a bunch of emojis, people [14:57] saying hi. Um D. Let's have a look. [15:01] Surreal episode. It's It's often fairly [15:04] surreal. Um I mean it never goes that [15:07] weird, but it sometimes is a little bit [15:08] weird. [15:09] >> Two comments above that one though is my [15:11] favorite. [15:12] >> Fluffski. [15:13] >> Yeah. For the rabbit. [15:14] >> Fluffski. Okay. For the for the What's [15:17] that? Is that the rabbit or is that the [15:19] weather? I'm confused. [15:20] >> No, that that's the Russian name for [15:22] Fluffy. [15:23] >> Russian. [15:24] Is that actually That's so great. [15:27] >> No, Reese made it up and that's [15:29] >> Reese. I was hoping that was true. That [15:31] sounded too good. Uh, anything over 22 [15:33] degrees normally kills me. Yeah, it's [15:34] going to be a lot over 22. Like double [15:37] it and then add a little bit more. Um, [15:40] and then the soles of your shoes can [15:42] literally melt to the pavement if you [15:43] walk too long sometimes where Word Camp [15:46] Europe, [15:46] >> sorry, Word Camp US is being held. So, [15:49] look, a smattering of lovely comments [15:51] already. Keep them coming. it makes the [15:53] show, you know, really very interesting [15:55] when we get loads of comments. The idea [15:57] though is to talk about WordPressy [15:59] things. So, let's begin that process. [16:02] Uh, but first before that, very short [16:04] promotional stuff. If you like what [16:05] we're doing, put your email address into [16:07] this box and we'll send you a couple of [16:08] emails each week about the the content [16:11] we create, the most recent podcast [16:13] episode that I did. Can I urge you if [16:15] you're into AI, [16:18] like I'm kind of into AI, but I don't [16:20] really spend a lot of time thinking [16:22] about it or implementing it, go and [16:24] listen to this episode with with Alex [16:27] Standerford. Alex, by the end of it, I [16:30] think Alex was a bit concerned that he'd [16:32] said too much. Um, and it kind of he was [16:35] a bit worried that he came across as a [16:36] bit weird because he's he's given over [16:40] so much of his life to AI. He started [16:43] this process years ago where he kind of [16:45] journals absolutely [16:48] everything towards an AI and he said [16:52] it's now got to the point where it's [16:54] really adding up and adding value. He's [16:56] a because it knows what he's like. It [16:59] knows what his incentives are. It knows [17:01] what drives him forward. He's got in his [17:04] entire plug-in repository or multiple [17:06] repositories in there. And he said the [17:08] dots now really are adding up for him. [17:11] Um, and I found that really interesting [17:13] because I'm a bit of a lite when it [17:15] comes to AI. So, meeting somebody who's [17:16] been so bullish and so like gone homeo [17:21] about doing it. Um, you might find that [17:24] conversation really fascinating. Um, but [17:26] if you find it to be weird like Alex [17:28] thought it was going to be, uh, let me [17:30] know as well. But, um, I thought it was [17:32] fascinating. Absolutely fascinating. The [17:35] other thing I'm just going to quickly [17:36] mention, um, this is also kind of AI [17:39] related. Austin Ginder. I noticed [17:41] earlier, Steve, before we hit record, I [17:43] think you pronounced his surname [17:44] differently to me, so maybe I've got [17:46] that wrong. Um, but Austin did an [17:48] episode with me um about how AI is [17:52] really um making it possible for [17:55] companies to get in front of um things [17:58] like man-in-the-middle attacks and [18:00] things like that. He has to put together [18:02] a website called WP Beacon because he [18:06] was on just sort of nosing around and [18:08] noticed that a few of the plugins on [18:10] some of his client I'm doing air quotes [18:12] there client websites seem to have been [18:15] taken over by a malicious actor. Turns [18:18] out they were sold to a malicious actor [18:20] who then baked into the code um back [18:23] doors and malware and things like that. [18:25] And so he's made it his life's mission, [18:26] it would seem, to use AI to weed this [18:30] stuff out. Uh, and so that's all very [18:33] interesting as well. Go and check it [18:34] out. I don't know if anybody wants to [18:36] comment on any of that before I move [18:37] into the news items this week. If you [18:39] do, pipe up now. If not, I'll just move [18:41] on. [18:43] Okay? In which case, I will just move [18:45] on. So, usually on the show, it was [18:48] Michelle's idea actually many years ago, [18:50] um, is to let the guests pop their [18:53] favorite bits of the week at the [18:54] beginning of the show. And so, Steve's [18:56] popped a few in this week. So, I'm kind [18:58] of going to hand it over to Steve [19:00] because um, well, they're the ones that [19:03] he mentioned. The first one is over on [19:05] wordpress.orgnews. [19:07] It was written by Matt Mullenweg about [19:09] three days ago and it's called Protect [19:11] the Shire. What did you uh what did you [19:14] have in mind when you added this, Steve? [19:17] >> Well, this links directly to Austin's [19:20] work you were talking about on the [19:21] podcast. [19:21] >> Yep. [19:22] >> And it it may even be a 100% direct [19:26] reaction to it that at the moment if you [19:29] release a WordPress plug-in, they're [19:31] going to wait 24 hours before it [19:34] actually releases so they can run [19:36] security scans on it. it. Maybe it's a [19:39] slightly different problem to the one [19:41] Austin started off and kind of got some [19:44] publicity for talking about, but it's [19:46] all part of the same [19:49] core issue that basically AI is making [19:51] security so much more difficult now. Um, [19:56] I think Austin has been saying that [19:58] February of this year was a complete [20:01] like 180 degree turn for him with [20:04] security. Suddenly vulnerabilities that [20:06] had never been found before were getting [20:08] found and exploited. Um, and so Matt's [20:12] response has been to lock down the [20:15] WordPress repo for 24 hours after every [20:18] release now. [20:20] >> So kind of curious. I don't know if you [20:22] saw this bit. I don't know if this [20:23] number seems to be a a big number or [20:25] not, but he says right at the top of the [20:27] article, he's trying to paint the [20:28] picture of how AI has made most software [20:31] probably more vulnerable to things [20:33] because what used to take a human [20:34] researcher many hours to figure out now [20:37] point an AI at the codebase and perhaps [20:39] you can find them in minutes. And things [20:40] like Chrome, which is mentioned here, [20:43] the Chrome browser is obviously open [20:45] source. You can download that. uh 429 [20:48] security fixes were patched um just very [20:53] recently in the latest release. So I'm [20:55] guessing that's an extraordinarily high [20:56] number that Chrome have had to release. [20:59] Um and yeah, so the idea being that from [21:02] now on we're going to give uh plug-in [21:05] developers when you update your plug-in [21:08] 24 hours until that is then available on [21:11] theorg repo. The idea, I think, is to [21:14] figure out how it all works out. Like [21:16] figure out if they can turn the AI [21:18] around to reduce that time down into [21:21] hours and minutes possibly in the [21:23] future. But for now, they're going to [21:24] point the AI at updates to um to your [21:28] plug-in repository and hopefully find [21:30] the bits and pieces that may or may not [21:32] be lurking in there. Um yeah, that's [21:35] it's quite a change, isn't it? I suppose [21:37] I don't know how this will work with [21:38] critical security patches. So, let's say [21:42] for example, Steve, your plug-in has a [21:44] critical vulnerability in it and it's [21:47] widely known out in the wild that [21:49] there's a critical vulnerability in it. [21:51] Do we still wait for 24 hours or does [21:53] that get a pass? I don't know how [21:54] that'll all kind of work, but um yeah. [21:58] >> Yeah, you may have to write into the [21:59] plugins team for an exception. Um, [22:04] we maybe like five, six years ago, we've [22:07] been on the other end of this with a um, [22:10] a massive security problem with one of [22:13] our plugins and the WordPress plugins [22:16] team were awesome and they did a a force [22:19] push of the fix to [22:22] >> Oh, yeah. [22:23] >> to everyone who had the the plug-in [22:25] installed. And that was super useful. [22:28] And I'm pretty sure the WordPress [22:30] plug-in team would be flexible enough to [22:33] to fix something like that if it [22:34] happened again. [22:35] >> Yeah. Well, maybe you can be bumped to [22:38] the top of the uh the AI or human review [22:41] queue uh so that it becomes a matter of [22:44] hours. Um yeah. Anyway, that was an [22:47] interesting piece uh written by Matt [22:48] himself. Michelle or Mark, if you've got [22:50] anything to add, do it now. Otherwise, I [22:52] will just move along gently. [22:56] Before I do that, I'll just raise a [22:58] couple of these comments. So the first [22:59] one is this one uh from full works [23:01] plugins. Alex and I are of the same [23:03] cloth. So referring to Alex Standford [23:04] earlier, I have built I I have building [23:07] retained knowledge about my personal [23:08] goals and align to business strategy. [23:10] Yeah, that's basically what he's been [23:12] doing and it's been sort giving him some [23:14] profound insights. I can see the [23:16] positives in them using AI to secure [23:18] websites. I do wonder though how [23:19] accurate the AI will be. This is always [23:21] my concern um as well and how they [23:24] handle zero. Oh, okay. There you go. [23:26] You've literally written what I just [23:27] suggested as well. Zero days within 24 [23:30] hours. That's a very good point. Um, it [23:33] would be nice if they could open source [23:34] their prompt so that we can run the same [23:36] tests ourselves like they do with the [23:37] plug-in check. Oh, that's interesting. [23:40] >> That's a that's a good idea. I like [23:42] >> Yeah. [23:43] >> Yeah. [23:43] >> I wonder if there's some secret source [23:45] there that they don't wish to decluse me [23:48] disclose. I can't see. [23:51] I'm I'm thinking about that for a [23:52] moment. I I think the answer is no. [23:54] Yeah, good suggestion. I like that. [23:57] >> Um, and then carries on with, of course, [24:00] we speaking for us already use AI to [24:02] yeah, to do extra security checks. Okay, [24:05] thank you. Keep the comments coming. [24:06] That's great. Let's put the slides back [24:08] up or the share the bits and pieces on [24:11] the screen. And then this is a slight [24:13] segue. [24:15] We got a new wapoo related to Is this [24:17] new? Is this Gonal Wapoo new? But it was [24:19] certainly called out in that article. [24:22] Well, created June 5th, 2026. [24:24] >> Okay. So, it is new. This is the new uh [24:27] this is the new game by Matt. [24:30] >> Oh, is it? Oh, yeah. Okay. [24:32] >> Okay. So, it is Matt. So, this is this [24:34] is the AI uh Wapoo. I guess that's going [24:37] to be overlooking your code. The new [24:40] Wapoo for that. I I actually have a I [24:42] have a strong like for that one. I'm a [24:44] big fan of Lord of the Rings, and so I'm [24:46] I'm kind of drawn to that. But let's [24:48] move on. Next one is over on the Word [24:51] Fence uh blog. I'm just going to say at [24:54] the outset that Word Fence do this [24:56] quarterly report and and I'll just sort [24:58] of skim quickly and you'll get an idea [25:00] why we can't really cover all of it. [25:02] It's there's a lot basically is one way [25:05] to summarize it. But Steve, was there [25:07] anything you wanted to draw out of this [25:09] in particular? [25:11] Well, I put in the link to Matt's post [25:14] plus this one which says that basically [25:17] um [25:18] vulnerability reports are going way way [25:21] way up this year according to [25:24] >> Word Fence and also one about Patchack [25:28] which [25:30] said that they are getting lots and lots [25:31] of fake AI reports and they've started [25:34] to ban people from their bug bounty [25:36] problems because people are sending in [25:39] hallucinated reports. [25:40] And it's all [25:42] >> part of the same topic basically. But [25:45] >> it's AI and security. It's a bit of a [25:47] it's a bit of a nightmare, isn't it? So [25:49] in this one, the word fence report, I [25:51] don't know if you can if you if you're [25:53] listening to this, apologies. It's going [25:54] to be hard for me to summarize it, but [25:56] basically on the the sort of M uh the [25:59] UVP, if you like, the sort of hero item [26:01] of this is that most things are up in [26:05] terms of security problems. Everything [26:07] seems to have gone up by a significant [26:09] amount of they're claiming uh during the [26:12] previous quarter a 23.7% [26:15] rise in total vulnerabilities published. [26:17] This is of course Word Fenc's uh own [26:20] data. 20.6% [26:23] increase in high threat vulnerabilities [26:26] now up to 158. Common and dangerous [26:29] vulnerabilities a a 98% increase but the [26:33] number is 198. So it's not like this [26:35] 48,000 or anything. So maybe that's a [26:38] little bit sanguin. Waff attacks blocked [26:41] is now down by a small amount 3% but [26:44] still kind of interesting that figure [26:46] you would want to go up rather than [26:48] down. Um a brute force attacks up 15% at [26:52] 16 billion and then sites infected 1.4% [26:57] rise up to 700 sorry 474,000. [27:03] There's a lot in this article. Um, [27:05] >> so we started to get a whole new [27:06] category of email from uh Word Fence. I [27:10] think mainly it used to be like once a [27:12] month because we've got like 20 plus [27:14] plugins. Once a month we'd get an email [27:16] from Word Fence to say, "Hey, you have a [27:18] security issue in this plug-in. It's [27:21] minor, [27:23] >> medium, very occasionally serious." Um, [27:27] we haven't been getting those lately. [27:29] Word friends have been sending this us [27:31] these emails saying, "We had a report [27:34] about your plug-in, but we realized it [27:37] was nonsense and we canceled it." Like, [27:39] huh? Okay. Um, this like almost every [27:43] week they're saying, "We got a [27:45] hallucinated report about your plug-in [27:47] and we blocked it and we're just letting [27:49] you know that we investigated and found [27:51] it to be nothing." [27:52] >> It's really interesting and that links [27:54] perfectly to this patch stack piece. [27:56] Patchstack have what's called a bug [27:58] bounty program whereby if you discover [28:01] something of worth which will help you [28:04] know drive the WordPress security [28:06] landscape forwards you can submit it to [28:09] them and depending on the criteria that [28:11] it that it falls under and I won't bore [28:13] you with all that but you can you can be [28:15] rewarded for that and obviously if you [28:18] tie [28:20] it's it was guaranteed to happen really [28:21] wasn't it if you can exchange money for [28:24] knowledge about a security uh problem. [28:26] Well, point AI at that and come up with [28:29] a load of problems that maybe are not [28:31] that significant and hope to be paid [28:33] out. That's exactly basically what [28:34] Patchack have discovered and they've had [28:36] to tighten up the rigging um of their [28:40] bug bounty program and now that the [28:42] topline item basically is that if you [28:46] submit AI slop reports, you're going to [28:49] be banned for a week, which actually to [28:52] me seemed quite lenient. Um yeah, [28:54] >> a week. I was thinking it'd be more like [28:56] a year or something like that, you know, [28:57] to really dissuade people from doing it, [28:59] but they've got some new so there's a [29:02] lot of data about how they've [29:04] established that this is happening and [29:05] you know asking people to honor some new [29:08] criteria, but yeah, temporary ban is [29:11] basically the the bottom line item and [29:13] they've got some new criteria for what [29:15] now will qualify. So they're basically [29:18] tightening the whole thing up. So it's [29:19] going to be more difficult to qualify. [29:22] Um therefore hopefully will be more [29:24] meaningful in the future. So again, [29:27] anybody want to add anything to those or [29:29] should we press on? [29:32] All right. Okay. In which case we will [29:34] press on. Um just a little thing. I I [29:37] don't really have anything to say about [29:38] this other than that word camp Europe [29:40] happened. Um, as always, a very very [29:43] very big thank you to anybody who [29:47] touched that entire process. You know, [29:49] if you were on the organizing team or [29:51] were a volunteer at the event or [29:54] whatever your point of reference was, [29:56] that was an incredible event. The venue [29:58] was lovely, which always helps, but it [30:01] obviously the people kind of really make [30:03] the whole thing tick. And it was [30:05] incredibly well done as far as I could [30:07] see. I um I had an absolutely lovely [30:10] time. I hope that you did too. And if [30:12] you were involved in the, you know, the [30:13] organization of that, I hope that you're [30:15] having a bit of a well- earned uh rest [30:17] at this point. None of I don't think any [30:20] of you three were there, were you? Uh, [30:23] no. [30:23] >> Unfortunately, not. Okay. No, it was it [30:26] was really good. The venue was great. [30:28] And a bit of a bit of a hat tip. If [30:31] you've ever thought about Oh, sorry. If [30:34] you've never thought about going to the [30:35] city of Kkow, wow, that was that was the [30:40] one of the most sublimely cool bits. [30:42] Krakow is utterly stunning. Um, and [30:46] quite compact. So, if you land in Kkow, [30:50] a lot of the things that you would like [30:51] to see are within easy walking distance. [30:53] You know, 15 minutes here, 10 minutes [30:55] there, 3 minutes there. And um, it was [30:58] absolutely marvelous. So definitely get [31:01] on a plane to Krakow if you're short of [31:03] holiday ideas. Three or four days there [31:05] is going to be time well spent. And [31:08] yeah, the organizers help users did [31:09] great indeed. I'm always amazed by how [31:12] an event like that can basically be run [31:15] by volunteers. It's a miracle that that [31:18] does happen. Um you can read this [31:21] article. I'm I've got something on the [31:22] screen entitled What Happened at Word [31:24] Camp Europe 2026. It was written just a [31:26] couple of days ago after the whole thing [31:28] had wrapped up. So if you want to go and [31:29] check it out, you can. Um yeah, they had [31:33] um the the sort of topline item I [31:35] suppose the keynote if you like was uh [31:37] was the folk at CERN um who of course [31:40] were the uh that was the sort of [31:41] founding place where the web actually [31:43] began. So I didn't actually manage to [31:45] make that talk but kind of be interested [31:47] to watch it back uh which you can do [31:49] here. Two worlds collide WordPress at [31:51] CERN. Go and check that out if you wish. [31:54] All righty. [31:56] Uh again, I'll just pause in case [31:58] anybody wants to jump in. Nope. All [32:00] right. Right then. [32:02] >> You You got all the Americans on the [32:04] podcast this time around. [32:05] >> I know. Yeah. But usually usually Word [32:07] Camp Europe is about 50% Americans as [32:10] far as I can work out. And that I think [32:11] that was definitely the case this time. [32:13] There was a lot of people from all over [32:15] the world. There's, you know, the your [32:16] usual kind of hosting companies bringing [32:19] their North American teams and things [32:20] like that. So, there was definitely a um [32:24] definitely a lot of people from all [32:25] over. And the numbers felt good to me. I [32:27] know that we're sort of trying to like [32:29] make ourselves feel good about the [32:31] community and things like that, but I [32:33] think there was 2,600 [32:35] it was something like 37 uh tickets uh [32:40] turned into actual people showing up. So [32:43] I think 2,600 plus people actually uh [32:45] attended the event. And it certainly [32:47] felt like that. It was one of those [32:49] events. [32:50] >> That's kind of precoid numbers, isn't [32:52] it? [32:52] >> Right. Right. Well, yeah. I think [32:54] there's this idea that one day it'll get [32:56] back to 3,000 or something. Perhaps [32:58] that's not realistic. But what was [32:59] really nice was instead of it being one [33:02] of those great big single floor event [33:04] spaces, this was stacked over four [33:07] floors basically. So each floor was not [33:09] that big. Um, and so it felt busy no [33:14] matter where you stood. If that does [33:16] that make sense? Is that do you [33:17] understand what I mean? It just felt [33:19] like it was happening and busy. And I [33:22] would imagine that most sponsors, not [33:25] every sponsor, but I imagine that most [33:26] sponsors got a good deal from it because [33:29] like I said, everywhere felt busy. There [33:31] was not really too many parts that felt [33:33] like they were the far-flung corner that [33:36] nobody actually ended up walking to. So [33:38] that was good. Um, and I've got Reese [33:41] here saying that all the Europeans are [33:42] recovering from Word Camp Europe with [33:44] the with the exception of Nathan. No, [33:47] I'm totally recovering, but I've uh you [33:49] know, I've had a couple of coffees, Ree, [33:52] and I'll fl I'll flop when this is done. [33:55] >> Well, weren't you telling us before we [33:57] got on that uh you were just doing your [34:00] old man thing and not going to any of [34:01] the parties? [34:02] >> Well, there was a lot of I have to I [34:05] definitely have to sort of protect [34:07] myself a little bit. I'm I'm of a [34:09] certain age, let's put it that way. And [34:12] if I go go into some of these go into [34:14] some of these uh I don't know like the [34:16] after parties and things and you see [34:18] people jing around it. It's not I can't [34:20] do that anymore. [34:22] >> It's all a bit embarrassing. [34:24] >> Simply using the word jive the young [34:27] kids. [34:30] >> That puts you in the old man category [34:32] right there. [34:32] >> Yeah. Yeah. and and but also Crack Kov [34:36] was such a revelation that I really [34:39] wanted to spend I get a lot out of [34:41] walking around places like that. I don't [34:43] know if you're like me but I I really [34:45] enjoy stuff like that wandering around [34:47] and sitting and having coffees and meals [34:49] and stuff and so that that to me [34:51] represented a fantastic use of my time. [34:54] So I did that. I did turn up to a few [34:55] things but I didn't I didn't go to as [34:58] many as I often would. Uh right. Okay. [35:01] Right. Let's move on to this one then. [35:03] So this is very much in the domain of [35:05] WordPressy stuff now. So on the [35:08] repository website um Gutenberg 23.3 [35:12] ships with experimental customizable [35:15] WordPress dashboard. I'm not quite sure [35:19] what's going on here. So you know when [35:21] you log into a WordPress uh website [35:23] typically you'll end up at the [35:24] dashboard. And for the longest time, [35:26] certainly as long as I've been using [35:28] WordPress, there's been little widgets [35:30] that you can drag around and pop them [35:31] into different places and hide them and [35:33] show them and what have you. Um, but we [35:35] now have this. I'll pop it on the screen [35:37] for you to see. There's only a little [35:39] screenshot there. I don't know if that's [35:40] of any help, but I'm not entirely sure [35:44] how much of a difference that feels to [35:47] me to what we've already got. Am I [35:49] missing something or does it just seem [35:51] like it's the same thing? [35:55] Yeah. [35:55] >> Is it built with blocks? [35:57] >> So, I don't know. That's an interesting [35:59] point. Now, the thing is what you can do [36:02] is there is like a masonry layout. So, [36:04] if I just sort of slide down here and [36:06] give you a little bit more of an insight [36:08] into it. Can you see there's options to [36:10] make it a little bit more like you can [36:12] customize the number of grids, you can [36:14] customize the width of the tiles, you [36:16] can make it masonry and standard grid. [36:19] And maybe you're right. Maybe there's [36:21] going to be an option to sort of build [36:22] your own blocks now that you know [36:24] perhaps without code or something like [36:26] that now that we've got the um this [36:28] approach. I'm not entirely sure. But um [36:31] anyway, that is coming. If you want to [36:34] make use of it, you can do that if you [36:35] uh go and install the Gutenberg plugin. [36:38] 23.3 will give you the option to do [36:41] that. Uh it says here, Gutenberg 23.3 [36:44] has shipped with an experimental [36:46] customizable dashboard that lets users [36:48] add, move, resize. Okay, maybe resize is [36:51] new [36:52] >> and arrange widgets on the WP admins [36:54] home screen is the first testable [36:56] preview of a long discussed overhaul. [36:59] Okay, that's the bit that I missed. This [37:00] isn't uh this we're not trying to build [37:02] something here which is finished. This [37:04] is just the framework by the sounds of [37:06] it. It's just the initial bones of what [37:08] it's going to be like. Uh the new [37:10] dashboard is built on a drag and drop [37:12] layout and ships with a full set of [37:14] widgets out the box. you know, the usual [37:17] welcome, quick draft, site health, and [37:19] so on. Each widget automatically adapts [37:21] to the different tile sizes, and [37:23] individuals can, sorry, and users can [37:25] choose which ones to display, adjust the [37:28] number of columns, and resize individual [37:30] widgets to suit their workflow. Again, [37:32] all of that sort of seems similar to [37:34] what we've got already, but anyway, [37:36] there you go. Um, anybody on that one? [37:40] Probably not. I that when you first log [37:43] in that screen that comes up that you're [37:45] looking at there, [37:46] >> how many of us actually pay a lot of [37:48] attention to that screen? I'm usually on [37:50] a mission to do something else. I bypass [37:52] it all together. Um if I want to know [37:54] what's going on with one of my plugins, [37:55] I go to the plugin, you know, all of [37:57] those kinds of things. I I don't use [38:00] this as a tool. And I'm wondering if I [38:02] should or if I'm like most of us. Do [38:05] >> you know what's really curious is I'm [38:07] exactly like you. I actually disable [38:10] them all. I go into the options for that [38:13] and I turn them all off so that [38:14] basically I've got a blank page and I I [38:17] try as often as possible never to go [38:19] there. But I'm kind of betting that [38:22] Steve could make some use of this [38:24] because couldn't you like create maybe [38:26] you have this already, I don't know, [38:28] like a widget to say things that are I [38:31] don't know in a pending status and need [38:33] to be looked at by an editor or [38:35] something like that. You could, we've [38:37] had some people use it, but it's fairly [38:40] limited in terms of in terms of [38:45] I don't know what exactly it's limited [38:48] in terms of, but people don't seem to [38:50] use it. [38:50] >> Yeah, I'm with you there. [38:52] >> But, you know, when you log into like [38:53] your CRM or your um I don't know your [38:56] project management tool, the dashboard [38:59] is about the most useful part of the [39:01] tool in my estimation. you know, if you [39:03] build it correctly and and you can get [39:05] that summary of everything that's going [39:07] on CRMwise or project management wise. I [39:10] don't know, like there's 12 things that [39:11] you need to achieve by the end of the [39:13] week or something like that and here [39:15] they are in priority order and things. [39:18] >> I I'm struggling to see how WordPress [39:20] adapts to that, but your Publish Press [39:22] plugin, it felt like there was a a way [39:24] to perhaps leverage that, but I don't [39:26] know. [39:27] >> Well, you know, if you look at Yeah. I [39:28] mean, MainWP is all about that overview [39:31] page. You go, you look at that overview [39:33] page and you see everything you need to [39:35] see right there. And um I'm wondering if [39:39] something like this is useful for if you [39:42] have various levels of users within the [39:45] site and you set up their dashboards the [39:48] way they need to see it. Um, okay. But, [39:50] but I'm like Michelle. I go and straight [39:54] to whatever I need to go to and I look [39:56] mostly at the sidebar. then I and don't [39:58] even pay attention to what's going on in [40:00] the dashboard. But if I have like an [40:02] editor or something like that, you know, [40:04] someone with an editor role or something [40:06] like that, I could see the use of [40:09] setting up their dashboards or letting [40:11] them set up their dashboards the way [40:12] that they want to with just the the [40:14] overview there. [40:16] >> Yeah, that's interesting. I use MainWP [40:18] on a more or less daily basis and you [40:20] you land on your proprietary sort of [40:24] dashboard, don't you? [40:25] >> Right. Yeah. um you you're sort of [40:27] separated out. It's like a SAS view. [40:31] It's like it's like a you've got a SAS [40:32] app built inside a WordPress, if you [40:34] know what I mean, but without the SAS. [40:36] >> Um and and I use that all the time. And [40:39] it's exactly that. It gives me the top [40:41] level items of what needs updating, you [40:43] know, how many plugins, how many themes, [40:45] how many core updates, and all the other [40:48] myriad things that you can do [40:49] >> or whatever else you want to add to it [40:51] or [40:53] well, we got some thoughts coming in. Um [40:56] >> so there is a um [40:58] >> uh an offshoot of real time [41:01] collaboration which is called presence [41:04] some the name has [41:06] >> presence API. [41:09] >> Yes. So I've seen dashboard mockups [41:11] where you log log into the new version [41:14] of this WordPress dashboard and you [41:16] would see everyone else who's logged [41:18] into the site normally with like a a [41:20] little smiley avatar next to it [41:22] >> and you see what they're doing. So, I [41:26] think the new idea of the dashboard is [41:29] something like that that you would log [41:31] in and say, "Hey, Mark is editing this [41:33] page. Uh, Michelle is editing this post. [41:36] Um, Nathan is doing updating an event." [41:40] >> Um, that perhaps by the time WordPress [41:44] 7.1 comes around, this would be more [41:47] dynamic, more live, showing you what's [41:49] literally happening on the site. No, [41:51] >> what's curious for me is that basically [41:54] most of my endeavors in the WordPress [41:55] space have been solo things. So, it's [41:57] been me logging into a website. So, it's [41:59] kind of hard to see the utility because [42:01] I know why I'm logging in. So, I can [42:02] avoid that dashboard. But, that's a [42:04] really good point and I I use the [42:06] example of TechCrunch a lot because I [42:08] can only imagine how many people are [42:09] logged into the TechCrunch WordPress [42:11] instance at one time because I don't [42:13] know how many pieces they write a day. [42:15] Maybe it's 10 pieces a day. And so all [42:17] of that there will be multiple people [42:19] logging in and and WordPress could [42:21] literally become their kind of internet [42:24] really, couldn't it? And so having that [42:26] intel about I don't know who's doing [42:28] what at this time and notes about what [42:30] they did and achieved and what needs to [42:32] be handed off is kind of really [42:34] interesting. I'll put a few little notes [42:35] up. We've had a few bits of commentary [42:37] about this. So uh Alan again, yeah, [42:39] sorry Alan, I keep saying uh full full [42:42] works plugins. Thank you. Um, it says, [42:44] "Personally, I thought there was no real [42:46] change either." So, yeah, it looks [42:48] broadly similar, doesn't it? But maybe, [42:50] um, Nomad Skateboarding says, "Maybe the [42:53] end goal would be to have all of your [42:55] data points end up there on the home [42:58] screen." Yeah. Okay, that's a good [42:59] point. And as you said, this is just a [43:01] direction that they're going in. The [43:03] widgets they shipped will be added to [43:05] shortly. Great. Thank you. Um, back to [43:09] Alan. You really need to look at desktop [43:11] mode. It is exactly what you're asking [43:13] and uh what you're asking and automatic [43:15] are involved. Thank you very much. Um [43:18] and I guess this may be a conversation [43:20] between Alan and Novad skateboarding [43:21] fully checked out the last episode from [43:23] a couple of weeks ago. Dashboard was [43:25] talked about. Okay. Thank you. Thank [43:28] you. Right. In which case if we've got [43:30] that we will move on. There was [43:33] something else in there but I'll leave [43:34] you to read that uh article. There's a [43:36] few bits buried. [43:39] >> I wish you could color code them. Oh, [43:41] that's a nice idea. Yeah, [43:43] >> right. Because right now it's just all [43:44] this data in your face, which is [43:45] probably why I don't care for it. It's a [43:48] lot of over stimulation with a lot of [43:50] information. [43:51] >> Um I like health site health status, but [43:54] what if like critical updates were in a [43:57] red box? So you log in and you're like, [43:59] well, this plugin has a critical update. [44:01] As opposed to seeing, well, I got five [44:02] plugins to update. I'll get to them [44:04] later. You know, things like that. [44:05] Things that [44:07] because of a colorcoded system. I love I [44:10] love a good dashboard. I can waste a [44:12] whole half day configuring a dashboard [44:14] with with meaningless things, you know. [44:17] So, uh yeah. Okay. Interesting. Um and [44:22] now I'm trying to zoom away and so I can [44:23] scroll to the next thing. Right. There [44:25] we go. Anyway, that was on uh the [44:27] repository Gutenberg 23.3 uh ships [44:30] experimental customizable WordPress [44:32] dashboard. We'll be coming back to the [44:34] repository a little bit. However, this [44:36] is going to start, this piece that [44:38] you're looking at now is going to start [44:40] um a conversation about community. [44:42] There's going to be a few pieces that [44:44] I've put together in a row that are all [44:46] to do with community. Um Courtney, who [44:49] was on the call a bit ago, I don't know [44:50] if she's still with us, but she was on [44:51] the call a little while ago. Courtney [44:53] has been talking about uh contributor [44:55] dashboards for a very long time. She's [44:57] been wanting to get this launched, I [44:59] think, to raise the awareness of what [45:01] people are doing out in the WordPress [45:03] space. So, I don't know, Courtney, if [45:05] you've got any commentary that you want [45:06] to add into this, but here we are. If [45:08] you go to wpcontributor-b.org, [45:14] um, I don't know the status of this. [45:16] Like, I'm not sure who's in charge of [45:18] it. It I'm not sure who put this out [45:20] there, whether it's an automatic thing [45:22] or not. I genuinely don't know. But it [45:24] will it will give a summary of a few [45:27] things. There's a couple of menu items [45:29] on the left. There's this ladder view. [45:31] There's the cohorts view um which is [45:34] like this waterfall effect. And if you [45:36] don't understand any of it, if you just [45:37] go to the about tab, then that'll [45:39] explain everything that's going on like [45:41] how it works and what the different [45:43] views are. But if we just go back to the [45:44] wrapped one, I poked around in this for [45:47] about 10 minutes earlier today and I I [45:49] found something quite interesting which [45:50] I want to share with you. [45:52] So, what we're looking at now is the [45:54] last 12 months, and it says that there [45:57] were 486,771 [46:00] contributions. Let's assume that that [46:02] data is accurate and that that [46:05] represents a, you know, a decent [46:06] summation of it. Um, 1,333 [46:10] contri contributions on average per day. [46:13] That equates to. And then there's a [46:14] month-by-month chart and unique [46:16] contributors per month and and and [46:19] slight and more. And then I'm going to [46:22] click on some different years which will [46:23] filter by year and and I just want you [46:25] to watch as things happen. So if we go [46:28] to 2019, [46:30] I'm just going to get you to concentrate [46:32] on this top number. So this is the story [46:34] for 2019. 1,155,000 [46:38] contributions. Skip to 2020, 1,441,000 [46:46] contributions. 2021 1,214,000. [46:52] That's taking a little bit of a swing [46:54] south at that point. Skip to 2022. Takes [46:58] a bit of a swing down at this point. [47:00] We're down to 1 million uh 31,000. [47:04] Now 2023, watch what happens. Starts to [47:07] go down 964,000. [47:09] 2024 89,000. [47:13] 2025 [47:15] 592,000 [47:16] contributions and the last 12 months [47:18] 486. So compare and contrast. Let's go [47:21] to let's go to the most optimistic month [47:23] which I think sorry year which I think [47:26] was that one 2020 1.4 million the last [47:29] 12 months 486,000. [47:32] Now, I'll I'll let you uh let you [47:35] pontificate what that means, but if if [47:37] this data is true, it seems to show a [47:40] decline in contributions to the project. [47:43] And I don't know if anybody's got [47:44] anything they want to add. [47:46] >> I think the bigger interesting thing is [47:48] the number under that, which is the [47:50] number of contri. [47:53] >> If you look at the number of [47:54] contributors, it's [47:57] >> half. Yeah. Do you know that's [47:58] interesting. I didn't look at that. Do [48:00] you mind if I just spend a moment just [48:01] looking through that? Go ahead. [48:02] >> So directly underneath that number that [48:04] I was reading out loud is a much smaller [48:07] uh number representing the number of [48:09] individuals involved. So 200 200,000 in [48:14] 2019 240,000 in 2020,000 [48:19] 2021 2022 177,000 [48:24] 2023 166,000 [48:27] 2024 142,000 [48:30] 119,000 in 2025 and in the last 12 [48:33] months 102,000. So let's see. Yeah, it's [48:37] down by roughly 50% from 2022 [48:42] or 2021. [48:44] Okay, that is interesting. So, it's no [48:46] surprise that the uh the number of [48:49] contributions are down because it would [48:50] appear that the number of contributors [48:53] are down. Um, but the data is [48:56] >> the reason Oh, I was going to say the [48:57] reason I find that interesting is [48:59] because that kind of does feed to the [49:03] narrative of people leaving WordPress or [49:05] it could. I'm not I'm not saying it [49:07] does. I mean, it's one data point. [49:09] That's all it is. But, [49:11] >> um, but it's it certainly is an [49:14] interesting number to me. [49:15] >> Yeah. [49:16] >> If you go to Oh, we have the cat. [49:20] >> Yeah, there's the cat. [49:25] >> Michelle's cat. Let's just spend a [49:26] moment [49:28] >> admiring the cat. [49:30] >> This is Stella. Her name is easy to [49:32] pronounce in any language. [49:34] What's her name? [49:35] >> I was gone for a Stella. [49:37] >> Oh, that's easy. [49:39] >> Yeah. Nice. And she um she's she was mad [49:41] cuz I was gone for a whole week, but she [49:43] seems to have forgiven me since I gave [49:45] her treats this morning. So, [49:46] >> if if I can possibly find it, I'm going [49:49] to get a screenshot of when she just [49:50] turned and showed us her rear end. [49:52] >> Rear end. Yeah, [49:55] >> that was great. [49:56] >> Cats are very proud of their rear end. [49:57] Put it in your face as often as [49:59] possible. [49:59] >> Uh, right. Sorry. I apologize whoever I [50:02] just interrupted with the cat thing. Um, [50:04] Steve, was it you you were talking? [50:06] >> So, if you go to drupal.org/metrics, [50:10] they have something similar, and their [50:12] data goes back to all the way back to [50:15] like 2005, I think. Um, [50:21] and they break it down in different ways [50:25] than [50:26] um, the WordPress contributor dashboard [50:30] does, but you can tell pretty clearly [50:33] that the Drupal project peaked in like [50:36] 2012. [50:37] >> Yeah. [50:38] >> And it's been a [50:40] >> Yeah. [50:40] >> a slow and steady decline since then. [50:43] Um, so I think obviously the solution is [50:45] never to publish any metrics or [50:48] statistics. Yeah, that's right. Unless [50:50] Unless you can all going off. Yeah. [50:53] Yeah. Do you know what though? What's [50:54] curious is that I can I don't know if [50:56] it's just me, but I can really parse [50:58] that chart. I can I can take in the [51:01] information from that really [51:02] straightforwardly. Whereas when we were [51:05] back on the the WordPress one, let me [51:07] see if I can find it. Where's it gone? [51:09] It was this one. Uh clicking through and [51:11] trying to remember what I just saw. Uh I [51:15] find that more difficult. But the the [51:16] problem with that is the graph wouldn't [51:18] look very good, would it? It would [51:20] definitely be sort of trending south to [51:22] smaller bars. Um, we've got a few [51:25] comments coming in about this. Courtney, [51:28] uh, first of all, back to the [51:29] dashboards. Courtney says, "Color coding [51:32] that ship accessible, um, defaults for [51:34] the dashboard that we were talking about [51:36] just a moment ago would be a bit of a [51:37] dream." So, that's good. And then back [51:40] probably now to the um, contributor [51:42] dashboard as opposed to the WordPress [51:44] dashboard. Unfortunately, I've not had [51:46] time to contribute much to the [51:47] contributor to contributor [51:49] sustainability efforts lately. That [51:51] Yeah, but I know that that was a big [51:53] thing of yours, wasn't it? It was [51:54] something you were very, very keen on. [51:56] Uh, please don't take this the wrong [51:57] way, says web squadron, but I see less [52:00] younger than 30 years attending word [52:02] camp or participating in contributor day [52:05] and that makes you wonder about the [52:07] future contributions. Yeah, I I don't [52:09] think anybody can doubt that at all. [52:12] Imran, I've been calling you web squad [52:14] the entire time because it's written in [52:16] front of me. Uh Imran, I think you're [52:18] absolutely right. If you go to WordPress [52:20] events, then the age demographic skews [52:23] older, not younger. Although, Imran, I [52:26] had this conversation sitting on a [52:28] balcony like three days ago looking down [52:30] on Word Camp Europe and I was with a [52:33] friend and we tried to have this [52:36] conversation like we said, how many [52:38] 20somes do we think we can see? And then [52:41] we did 30somes and 40 and obviously you [52:44] know we were guessing how old people [52:45] were. But we were actually quite [52:48] surprised in a good way how many people [52:50] in in their 20ies we thought we saw [52:54] because I my assumption was it would [52:55] have been very very few and I was pretty [52:59] surprised. Now I couldn't tell you why [53:01] they were there. Maybe they were there [53:02] because they were you know compelled to [53:04] go on behalf of a company or what have [53:06] you. Not really sure, but um I share [53:09] your concern, but Word Camp Europe did [53:11] make me feel a little bit more um [53:13] sanguin. Yeah, of course 2020 was the [53:16] COVID year. That's a good point. And uh [53:21] Creouse, I think is the name. Hello. I [53:24] don't know if we've met before. Uh [53:26] however, when you are new to the [53:27] WordPress ecosystem, it's anything but [53:30] obvious where and how to contribute. [53:31] Okay, good point. Yeah, if you can't get [53:33] involved, then that's going to make it [53:36] difficult. Oh gosh, there's quite a few [53:37] comments. Patricia in replying to Imran [53:40] says, "Oh, like just what I said. Uh, I [53:44] saw new and young faces at Word Camp EU [53:46] and the WP credits and campus connect [53:48] initiatives are are precisely there for [53:50] onboarding a new generation." Um and [53:55] then Iran comes back with me and other [53:56] influence did notice the lessening [53:58] numbers for contributions and we do [54:00] wonder what state WP will be in uh in [54:03] five years time. Uh so okay I'm just [54:07] raising a few comments D. The [54:11] contributor dashboards are constantly [54:12] being improved and finesse are uh added [54:15] to weighted contributions especially [54:17] less visible such as WP WC organizers [54:21] and so on and so forth. Okay. [54:24] Yeah, we literally were up high. So, we [54:27] were looking down in the most literal [54:30] sense of the word. Not [54:33] brilliant. I love that. You should quote [54:35] that. [54:35] >> By the way, I I had that ex I had that [54:37] exact same thought when he said, [54:38] >> "Oh, no. Oh, so there were four three [54:41] four stories and we were sitting on the [54:44] top one and so we could see all the [54:45] other three beneath us." But yeah, uh my [54:48] name is Christina. We have not met [54:50] before. Oh, hello. Nice to meet you, [54:52] Christina. stay with us and make more [54:53] comments. We love it when you do. [54:56] >> Okay. Anything else? [54:57] >> I've al I've often thought about that [54:59] problem or challenge of how do people [55:03] learn to contribute? How do you know [55:06] where to go to do anything other than [55:08] download, you know, the the when you [55:11] first land on WordPress.org? Um, and I I [55:15] had the idea to create a website that [55:19] was like a mall kiosk where it's like [55:22] you are here. If you want to do this, go [55:23] this way. If you want to do this, go [55:24] this way. Kind of like plan your [55:26] adventure. [55:26] >> Yeah. [55:27] >> It was just a lot more than I was able [55:29] to pull together. So, I let that domain [55:31] expire. [55:32] >> If if I go back to Sorry, you go, Steve. [55:36] >> There's a on the contributor dashboard. [55:39] Did I notice there's a ladder? [55:41] >> There is a ladder. Let me pop it on the [55:43] screen quickly. Um, and it's right [55:46] there, [55:46] >> which I is one way to [55:51] um I'm not sure exactly how they define [55:53] these tasks, but people can get started [55:56] by simply posting on the forum and then [55:59] maybe I think this is meant to track [56:01] sort of [56:04] what how many people just enter the [56:06] ecosystem at a basic level and then move [56:09] on to more advanced tasks like [56:11] contributing [56:13] releasing plugins for example. I think [56:15] elsewhere there's on the site there's [56:17] some definitions of exactly what they're [56:19] tracking here. [56:20] >> Well, the nice the nice thing about this [56:22] is at some point in the near future when [56:23] this is when the the when the data has [56:27] been fully explained, but also when [56:29] there's more data and maybe the dash the [56:31] contributor dashboard is more fully [56:33] fleshed out. By the way, we've got [56:35] filtering and things on the right hand [56:36] side. um maybe there'll be some utility [56:39] in that and and it will give us a nice [56:41] target of initiatives that we need to [56:44] start creating in order to make the [56:46] project successful in the future. But I [56:48] would just like to very quickly go back [56:51] to and I can't find it now. Yeah, here [56:52] we go. um Patricia's comment about um WP [56:57] credits and campus connect initiatives [56:59] because that as far as I can see they [57:01] are at the at the minute the most [57:03] credible way of getting young folk uh [57:07] into uh WordPress. Not only are they [57:09] combining with real world institutions [57:11] like like the University of Pisa for [57:13] example, but they're also finding homes [57:16] in places where people already are and [57:18] putting on events where people can come [57:21] along and try WordPress out and things [57:22] like that. So kind of meetup feel to it [57:25] if you like but with with a more [57:27] educational bent to it. Um so yeah there [57:31] we go. And then Patricia is back um [57:35] saying to learn how to start [57:36] contributing there was the contributor [57:38] mentorship program. We should restart [57:40] it. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Anything on [57:44] that or shall we move on? I think it's [57:46] time to move on. Yeah. Let me just make [57:49] that comment go away. [57:51] Okay. We're back to the um WordPress, [57:54] sorry, the repository. And this is [57:56] something which has come back after a [57:58] few years of hiatus. Uh so Kevin [58:01] O'Hashi, I want to say that's how you [58:03] say it. I could be wrong. Um had been [58:07] publishing an annual kind of hosting [58:09] review. It was called review signal, I [58:12] believe, the the ben the hosting [58:14] benchmark in the WordPress space. My [58:17] estimation from looking back over the [58:20] previous years is that it was kind of [58:22] one of the most um credible ways of [58:24] finding out whether or not a hosting [58:26] company um I don't know met up to the [58:30] the claims that they would have on their [58:32] homepage, things like that. And it's had [58:35] to take a bit of a hiatus because [58:37] essentially the tooling that um Kevin [58:40] was using um instead of it being [58:42] something that he could plunder freely, [58:44] it then became paywalled. And so the the [58:47] way that he was using it was probably [58:49] going to give him a quarter of a million [58:51] dollar a year bill. So [58:54] okay, yeah, I get it. And so um Kevin [58:57] did what all open source folk do. went [58:59] away and he built his own version of the [59:01] same thing and it's called orderly ape [59:03] and is open source so you can test it [59:05] out and um basically has launched the [59:08] same survey. The topline items are that [59:12] Pressible and um what was the other one? [59:16] Big Scoot seem to do really well, but [59:18] honestly don't take my word for it or [59:19] the repository's word for it. If you [59:21] were to go to the actual report, so it's [59:25] wphostingbenchmarks.com [59:30] and then you'll be able to go to the [59:32] latest one which is the 2026 survey. Uh [59:35] it's all broken down by firstly [59:37] WordPress as a whole and then you can [59:40] click on the cost of the hosting. So [59:43] less than $25, 25 to 50 and various [59:46] different price points. Then you can [59:47] look at Woo Commerce where far less [59:50] companies came in. I think these [59:52] companies volunteer themselves into this [59:54] survey. So I don't think he Kevin goes [59:56] out and finds them randomly. I think [59:58] it's more they say they want to be a [60:00] part of it. Um and you can see the ones [60:03] with a star um seem to do well in some [60:07] way. half a star. Obviously, it's going [60:08] well in some respects, but the full [60:10] star. So, we got I don't know, what have [60:12] we got? 34 SP, Green Geeks, um Lightning [60:16] Base, GoDaddy, Pressible, WP Buzz, who I [60:20] confess I'd not heard of. Um and WPX, [60:23] they all do uh well. And then if you [60:26] click on each one of these cards, let's [60:28] for example, oh, I don't know, go with [60:30] well, I mentioned it a minute ago. Let's [60:31] go with Pressible. Then you drill down [60:34] into a a what can only be described as a [60:38] wealth of data. I mean, look, I love [60:41] what even is that? What the what is that [60:43] chart? Uh and it goes on and on and on [60:46] and on and on and uh Kevin, remarkable. [60:50] Uh you're obviously addicted to this [60:51] kind of stuff and I'm glad that you are [60:53] because somebody uh needs to do it. So [60:56] there you go. Anybody want to add [60:58] anything to that? [61:02] No. No. I don't know. Okay. In which [61:04] case that will just say go say the URL [61:07] again wphostingbenchmarks.com. [61:10] Uh go check it out and you can check out [61:12] Ray's piece about it. Right. Last one [61:14] from the repository this week. Actually, [61:16] do you know what? I'm not sure I'm going [61:18] to dwell on this one unless one of you [61:20] wishes to dwell on it. It's called [61:22] contributors launch FSE. So full site [61:24] editing style outreach program to get [61:27] real time collaboration ready for [61:29] WordPress 7.1. I know that in the past, [61:31] Steve, this has been very much something [61:32] that you're interested in. Uh, so I [61:35] don't know if this carries any interest [61:36] for you, this particular piece, but the [61:38] idea being that in order to get 7.1 [61:41] fully fitted out with real-time [61:43] collaboration, there's now an outreach [61:46] program which you can uh make yourself [61:48] available for uh in order to help test [61:51] it out. Perhaps hosting companies would [61:53] be the best people or individuals highly [61:55] highly interested in it. So Steve, [61:58] >> yeah, I don't think they had much time [62:00] to to get all the hosting companies [62:02] involved for the 7.0 release and for [62:09] real-time collaboration is something [62:11] that really it can impact the load on a [62:15] site. It needs to be done very [62:16] carefully. So, uh, I think this time [62:20] they're doing a full testing process [62:22] with all the hosting partners and trying [62:25] to to get a a lot more real world usage [62:28] before they consider whether it's ready [62:30] for 7.1. [62:32] >> Yeah. And um the the headline on this [62:34] really I'll just read the the sort of [62:36] short excerpt which Rey has put together [62:39] just says a new outreach program modeled [62:41] on the FSE experiment wants early [62:42] adopters testing collaborative editing [62:45] across hosting environments before beta [62:48] 1 on the 15th of July. And so I'm [62:51] reading from that that they want the [62:52] experimentation to be done by the 15th [62:55] of July, not they want you to express an [62:58] interest uh in participating by the 15th [63:02] of July. So again, go and check out Race [63:04] Peace if that feels like you. If you [63:06] wish to be a part of that, you can uh [63:08] you can get involved. And again, I'll [63:12] just quickly move on if nobody's got [63:13] anything to add to that. Okay. I've not [63:17] se Okay. [63:20] I was just about to say I haven't seen [63:22] too many calamities in the WordPress [63:24] space, but we're going to feature two of [63:26] them uh this week. Um I don't honestly I [63:30] don't like I never like to call people [63:33] out for doing things that were obviously [63:36] a little bit silly, but I am going to [63:38] mention this because I think this was [63:40] with hindsight a little bit silly. So if [63:44] you're one of Site Ground's users, Site [63:46] Ground is a a hosting company. I forget [63:48] where they're based out of, but I I [63:50] think it might be Serbia. Um, if that's [63:53] wrong, apologies. So, they've been in [63:55] business for many, many years and slowly [63:58] but surely gaining a a good reputation, [64:01] I would say. You know, I think many [64:03] people have heard of them and a lot of [64:05] people seem to have good things to say [64:06] about them. But a lot of that goodwill [64:09] drained extremely quickly. So something [64:11] that was very hard to create, goodwill [64:14] in the hosting space, it turns out can [64:16] be decimated in a moment. They installed [64:20] last week an the AI agent by site ground [64:25] plug-in on over 1 million websites [64:28] without any kind of consultation. This [64:32] piece says so caveat mtor this is on the [64:35] WP Mayor website. Um, and when contacted [64:41] about it, the the defense basically [64:43] seems to have been something along the [64:45] lines of uh it it's okay. It didn't do [64:48] anything. It was preparing for the [64:51] WordPress 7.1 um AI things that are [64:54] going to come along and so we're just [64:56] getting people familiar with the [64:57] interface. That didn't seem to go down [64:59] too well because people said, you know, [65:01] that's a bit tonedeaf. We don't want [65:04] people going in and installing things on [65:06] our website. we've got clients that we [65:08] now have to explain where this came [65:10] from. Maybe clients will start using it [65:13] and misusing it, you know, [65:15] misunderstanding what it's for and what [65:16] have you. And they very very quickly [65:20] gained I mean look at that chart. I mean [65:23] it's pretty bad. Uh one five-star [65:26] review. I wonder who did that one by the [65:28] way. That'd be curious to see. But 35 [65:30] one-star reviews. I don't know if the [65:32] situation has changed. I imagine it has [65:34] since then. But um anyway, they tried to [65:38] defend themselves and the the author of [65:40] this article was a pains to point out, [65:41] well, good on them. At least they [65:43] stepped up and didn't just sort of try [65:44] to ignore the problem. But I think what [65:46] we've learned from this is don't install [65:48] plugins on people's websites unless you [65:51] get a permission. Um because it'll be a [65:54] bit of a bit of a PR disaster and it [65:57] might start to hurt your bottom line. [66:00] Because people didn't just seem to [66:01] equate this with, oh, they've installed [66:04] a plugin, they equated it with, I'm [66:07] never using site ground again. That's [66:09] how bad it got very, very quickly. So, [66:13] any thoughts on this? [66:15] >> Uh, Reys has a comment that says they [66:18] did send out an email beforehand, but it [66:20] was sent midafter afternoon on a Friday [66:22] in EU time. [66:24] >> Interesting. Thank you, Ree. Appreciate [66:25] that. Are you one of their customers [66:27] just out of interest? because the [66:29] article does make the so thank you Ree [66:32] that's well pointed out and I should [66:34] have said that the article makes the [66:36] point that site ground claimed to have [66:38] sent out an email and the author of this [66:41] article made the point that they don't [66:43] think they got it and maybe like you Ree [66:45] just didn't get a chance to open it up. [66:48] I don't really know. But um if they did [66:52] a Bulgaria uh he says uh Ree says thank [66:55] you. Um what what what's your opinion on [66:57] it though, Ree? I'm curious to know if [66:59] you are one of their customers, would [67:00] that be something that you would not uh [67:03] wish for them to have done? And maybe [67:05] they could have marketed that through a [67:07] series of emails with a button saying, [67:09] "Here's where to install it from as [67:11] opposed to um them, you know, actually [67:14] just pulling it into your website [67:16] without uh without you getting [67:19] permission." Elliot joining us. Hello, [67:21] Elliot. Elliot and I hung out at Word [67:22] Camp Europe. That was nice. Nice to meet [67:24] you, Elliot. Um he says get permission [67:26] particularly if it's related to AI. [67:28] Yeah. Uh and then Ree I presume in the [67:32] in reply to me saying are you a [67:33] customer? He says I am for now. Oh [67:37] that's almost [67:38] >> I still have a few sites over there and [67:41] I just went through my email um trash [67:44] because I just delete a lot of things [67:46] all the time as we all do probably. Uh I [67:48] don't see an email from them. It may [67:49] have gone to spam in which case I [67:51] cleared it probably at some point but uh [67:53] I did not receive an email in my inbox [67:56] from them about that although I do have [67:58] several emails about other things. So [68:01] >> interesting. [68:02] >> I think I think one of the things you [68:04] have to consider is your demographic [68:06] here. [68:07] >> People [68:09] install WordPress as a self-hosted [68:11] solution because they want to have [68:13] control of everything. And so anytime [68:16] you're reminded that you don't, it [68:19] doesn't it doesn't land well. And I [68:22] think that that's what's happening here [68:23] is [68:24] >> is is and then of course you add the AI [68:28] element into it, which is a you know, [68:30] you can probably split it down the [68:32] middle with people who like pineapple on [68:34] pizza, you know, and and don't. [68:37] >> Uh some people are all for AI, some [68:39] people aren't. And so you add that to [68:41] the mix and it I I think that it [68:45] probably [68:47] was not well thought out as far as how [68:49] they rolled it out. Um [68:52] >> they could have done a better job ahead [68:54] of time with recognizing who their [68:56] demographic was and [68:57] >> and marketing to that. [68:59] >> We are a curious bunch, aren't we? [69:01] Because if I'm subscribing to let's say [69:04] a SAS platform, let's go with CRM again [69:06] because we were talking about that [69:07] earlier. If they roll out a new feature [69:10] and they switch it on, I I don't care. [69:14] Like that's the deal. I want all the new [69:17] features, but there is something fairly [69:19] special about my WordPress website. And [69:21] I think you summed it up there [69:22] perfectly, Mark. It's mine. And when you [69:25] notice suddenly for a moment, actually, [69:27] it it isn't mine, is it? It's not [69:29] entirely mine. Look, somebody was able [69:31] to do a thing and it's not mine. Um it [69:35] makes I don't know there's some [69:36] intuition which sort of not sure about [69:38] that. Um so uh Iran says he one of their [69:43] customers uh I'm one of their customers. [69:46] It didn't bother me hugely as I got an [69:48] email two weeks ago. Imran if you can [69:50] locate that email I'm curious to ask to [69:53] see it does that email ask your [69:55] permission or does it just tell you that [69:58] that's what you're going to that they're [69:59] going to do? And if if they just tell [70:01] you what they're going to do, did you [70:02] get an opt out option or is there a way [70:04] of sort of saying no, no, no, don't do [70:05] this for me. Um because I think that's [70:07] that's where this the line is drawn [70:09] here. Ree says you're not a fan. Also [70:11] got clients and I had a few question. [70:14] Oh, so you had to actually field client [70:17] questions about it. That's not great, is [70:20] it? Suddenly wasting your time on [70:21] something you didn't need to uh didn't [70:24] need to bother with. Uh agreed totally [70:26] with Mark says Ree. If if this was a [70:29] free product, you can't complain, but I [70:31] pay £500 per year uh with an account [70:34] with them. Uh if I'm not going over [70:38] certain limits, leave me be. Um and then [70:42] finally, site ground have a speed [70:43] security plug-in in the repo and and [70:46] they were opt in for old accounts. Yeah. [70:49] Yeah. Um and Irram says he's deleted the [70:52] email. Yeah. Don't recall it asking for [70:54] permission or giving an opt out. I think [70:56] that's maybe the bit, isn't it Immran? [70:58] Maybe that's the bit people are sort of [71:00] concerned about is that that agency left [71:02] you and you just woke up in the morning [71:03] and it was there. Steve, I think you're [71:05] trying to say something. [71:07] >> Yeah. I wonder if there's a throughine [71:09] between [71:10] the last article on real time [71:13] collaboration and this site ground issue [71:17] and I think the next one which you have [71:18] teed up which is cadence maybe. [71:21] >> Yeah, I think you got that. Yeah, [71:23] >> we we're living in a world where [71:26] I think automatic is doing they call it [71:28] like a radical speed month maybe they [71:31] just finished. Y [71:32] >> that people are using AI everything is [71:35] so fast but what we've seen in all three [71:39] cases from foresight editing to this [71:43] site ground issue to cadence was [71:47] they all tried to push it through so [71:48] fast like the cadence thing just [71:52] was a lot of the affiliates were [71:54] complaining there was no kind of [71:55] preparation of them there was no kind of [71:58] advanced warning it just happened and [72:00] happened overnight and the site ground [72:02] users are complaining that it just [72:04] happened and uh foresight editing [72:07] really just needed more time to mature. [72:09] I was there was a rush to get it in the [72:12] core when it wasn't quite ready. [72:14] >> Yeah, [72:16] >> these things take time. Even if um even [72:20] if you can do something in a month [72:22] doesn't mean you should. that in site [72:25] ground's case in retrospect maybe they [72:27] should have started rolling it out on an [72:29] opt-in basis and got some build up some [72:32] good reviews in the repository before [72:35] launching it and you know cadence uh [72:38] said hey [72:40] >> uh build in public I think is the phrase [72:42] people have been using for a long time [72:45] >> we have all these brands this is what [72:47] we're thinking of doing um that we can [72:51] have speed but Yeah, things just take [72:54] time to do, right? And [72:56] >> so there's a bit of [72:58] >> Yeah, sorry, Steve. Um, I was just going [73:00] to say there is a bit of a through line [73:02] here and let me just put a few bits on [73:04] the screen. So, the first one was [73:06] obviously that uh No, where's it gone? [73:08] The one that we were just talking about. [73:09] I can't find it now. You were mentioning [73:11] it anyway. Um, but now we're on to we've [73:14] got on to the site ground uh installing [73:16] a thing which seems to be a bit of a PR [73:19] uh nightmare. But then I'm going to [73:22] highlight this one which is Cadence [73:25] which has now become liquid web in the [73:28] most extraordinary fashion. I I have yet [73:31] to see a story like this in the [73:33] WordPress space. This is self emulation [73:36] done in real time. I I don't really [73:38] understand what was going I I can only [73:40] imagine the people who've made these [73:43] decisions probably are not attending [73:46] WordPress events or don't have a history [73:47] with the WordPress. I could be wrong. I [73:49] don't know. I don't really get it. [73:50] Anyway, the WordPress uh brand cadence [73:53] um has now been sort of like hijacked [73:55] and made into a liquid web product, but [73:58] it all seems to have been done in a very [74:00] rushed fashion. Um there was poor [74:03] communication. This article, by the way, [74:05] is on the DIYdreamsite.com [74:08] and I believe that the author Katy Boyin [74:12] is is an employee of Liquid Web, which [74:14] is is [74:15] >> no longer. [74:16] >> No longer. Okay. No longer. Right. So [74:18] there was massive amount there were [74:19] massive layoffs recently and she decided [74:22] to leave on her own accord. Uh she was [74:24] in charge. She was the product owner for [74:27] >> Right. Right. Okay. [74:28] >> This is a very thorough you can see I [74:31] mean it really is a long long piece [74:32] about what happened but it it does seem [74:35] to be from Katie's point of view at [74:36] least just one thing after another of [74:40] missteps and misunderstanding the kind [74:42] of community and the marketing and then [74:44] finally the pricing about the fact that [74:47] the pricing seems to have gone through [74:49] the roof if you have multiple sites like [74:51] 5 10x kind of the pricing. So, let's [74:54] just link these two things together. [74:56] Over here, we had Site Ground um [75:00] installing a plug-in without really [75:03] consulting the community or seeming to [75:05] understand the impact of that. Over [75:07] here, we have Liquid Web doing something [75:10] which with hindsight probably didn't [75:13] serve their community all that well. And [75:16] then over here, we've got another one. [75:19] This is um Marco Almeida calling out [75:23] Yoast for inserting their own and you [75:26] can really not really see it. Yoast have [75:29] inserted their own filter inside the d [75:33] inside the WordPress uh admin um near [75:37] where you install plugins so that you [75:40] can filter for Yoast based things. And [75:42] on the surface it seems fairly benign, [75:44] but he's then made this lovely [75:46] screenshot of what will happen in like [75:49] two months time if everybody suddenly [75:52] gets the intuition, oh, we could also [75:55] insert our own little filter. And so, [75:58] you know, you've got awesome motor [75:59] gravity form, jetpack, main WP, trust. [76:02] This is what it would look like if [76:03] everybody inserted their own filter. And [76:05] again, just kind of like, is this what [76:08] we want? Is this the sort of way that [76:10] this that we're heading? So, there's a [76:12] bit of a line going through these of uh [76:15] companies obviously trying to make a [76:16] difference, companies trying to be [76:18] noticed, companies trying to change [76:19] things up a little bit, but some of it [76:21] not quite seeming to meet the desires uh [76:25] of the community. And I don't really [76:27] have an opinion on too much of it, but [76:29] anyway, there you go. I've introduced it [76:30] for your your delectation so that you [76:33] can uh enjoy that. And it does seem that [76:35] the Yos logo seems to vibrate. Look at [76:37] that. [76:39] interesting. Okay. Um any comments on [76:43] that? [76:45] >> Well, I was an employee of um Stellar WP [76:48] and Liquid Web for quite a while [76:50] actually. Uh and it was one of the first [76:53] layoffs last year, you might recall, the [76:55] day after I returned from Word Camp [76:57] Asia. [76:59] And at that point, I I mean, I couldn't [77:01] really say anything. I was I received, [77:03] you know, it's been over a year now, so [77:05] I can say whatever I want, but um [77:08] because of, you know, severances and [77:10] things like that. Anyway, [77:11] >> yeah, [77:12] >> I had my own concerns back then because [77:14] when we first started Stellar WP and we [77:18] had one marketing group, I was part of [77:20] that marketing group for all of, you [77:22] know, that we oversaw all of the Stellar [77:24] um each brand had its own marketing [77:26] person that would contribute, etc. And [77:28] then all of a sudden it was the split [77:30] and there was this marketing group over [77:32] these ones and this marketing group over [77:34] these ones. And what I felt was a bit of [77:36] an unhealthy competition to see who [77:38] could outmarket and do better than the [77:40] others instead of trying to [77:42] >> really help all you know what do they [77:45] say rising tide raises all boats or [77:47] something like that. So instead of that [77:49] kind of an address for marketing [77:52] when you look now what they've done is [77:54] they've taken all of the different [77:56] brands. I think we had 11 brands at one [77:58] point underneath the stellar WP. Stellar [78:00] WP doesn't exist anymore. They've [78:01] removed it from liquid web altogether [78:04] and there are now four brands and [78:06] several of the other brands were rolled [78:08] into Cadence. So, for example, um the [78:13] solid WP doesn't exist anymore. Their [78:15] answer to security is part of Cadence [78:17] now. And so all of those things that you [78:20] used to see and be able to purchase [78:21] separately. The other thing they've done [78:23] is no longer have developer licenses or [78:26] multi-sight licenses. So or multiple [78:29] light site licenses I should say as [78:30] opposed to multi-sight. The if you look [78:33] at give WP for example it used to be [78:35] $360 and then there was for you know for [78:37] the the top of the line and I understand [78:39] that prices go up and I haven't worked [78:40] there in a while but they used to also [78:43] have a five site developer license that [78:45] you could put on five sites. They don't [78:47] have that anymore. So now if you want to [78:48] have five site licenses, you have to [78:50] purchase $399 site licenses as opposed [78:54] to a $560 or whatever it was. And and [78:57] that is now the case with all of the [78:59] plugins that I've seen under Liquid Web. [79:02] I do believe and this is just my own [79:06] interpretation that um because Liquid [79:09] Web has changed funding sources and [79:12] therefore some ownerships over the years [79:14] that they are no longer WordPress [79:17] focused that they are only looking at [79:18] bottom lines and in doing so got rid of [79:21] a lot of um you know give we used to [79:24] bring in millions of dollars a year and [79:26] I don't I don't see how that could [79:28] happen anymore when give is no longer [79:31] offering you agencies, multiple licenses [79:34] for um you know for a a larger fee as [79:38] opposed to having to purchase each one [79:40] individually. And so I wonder what's [79:41] going to happen. I I grieved it. I'm I'm [79:45] going to be honest like I put my heart [79:46] and soul into give for a long time. I [79:49] wrote articles. I was out there, you [79:50] know, um for lack of a better word, [79:53] shilling, if you will, at at word camps [79:54] and things like that and trying to [79:56] demonstrate, etc. and and I no longer [79:59] have give on any of my sites and I have [80:01] all my sites built in Cadence and I am [80:04] slowly moving them all over to build [80:05] BeaverBuilder who offered me a license [80:07] which was very very gracious of them and [80:09] so now I'm going to be switching [80:10] everything over because I can't trust [80:13] Cadence because I can't trust Liquid Web [80:16] any longer and I I no longer host with [80:18] them either. So [80:20] >> here's a here's a stat to demonstrate [80:22] what you were talking about. So uh here [80:24] we go. Under the new pricing structure, [80:26] each site requires its own license. The [80:28] previous Ultimate plan covered up to 25 [80:30] sites for $299 a year. At the pro tier [80:33] today, 25 sites, wait for it, [80:38] $7,475 [80:41] per year, but you know, you get a 15% [80:44] volume discount. That's something, I [80:46] suppose. Brings it down to $6,353. [80:51] So, I mean, the kind of money which [80:54] we're really not used to talking in the [80:56] WordPress space and the kind of money [80:58] which I would imagine will never ever [81:00] ever ever [81:02] be paid. [81:04] >> Um, I could be wrong. Maybe people are [81:06] just willing to open up their wallets [81:08] like that, but I I have a prediction [81:09] that that kind of money will never get [81:11] spent on 25 websites for a a collection [81:14] of plugins. That just seems like that's [81:16] not going to happen. And you know, I [81:19] think I think you could look at all of [81:21] my public everything over the last 10 [81:24] years. I have never said anything [81:27] negative about a company or about a [81:28] plug-in or about anything publicly. I [81:30] have my own opinions, of course. This [81:32] one has pushed me to the point where I [81:34] felt the need to say something. If that [81:35] tells you the severity of it. [81:37] >> Yeah. [81:37] >> I'm sorry, Steve. What were you going to [81:39] say? [81:39] >> Oh, I was going to say you have a Sorry [81:42] if it's a a weird question, but you have [81:44] a give tattoo. [81:46] I do actually. I have a gift tattoo here [81:48] on my arm. And [81:50] >> yeah, just [81:52] know you give a crap about this, right? [81:54] You really [81:55] >> I really do. Um I got [81:57] >> three of us got the Give Tattoo in [81:59] Nashville together the first year that [82:01] we were in Nashville. And uh we did it [82:04] because being able to work at Give [82:07] changed the three of our lives in such a [82:10] positive way. And I still see that. [82:11] Right. So working at Give put me into [82:14] the community where I am now. put me on [82:15] the stage where I am today sitting, you [82:18] know, here in front of all of you. Um, [82:19] and so I have very very deep love for [82:23] give in in my heart and that's why it it [82:26] just breaks your heart in some ways. Um, [82:28] I'm planning to add to this tattoo [82:31] flowers and things around it. So, it [82:32] isn't just give, but it's more about my [82:35] whole life. Um, [82:37] >> well, I won't cover it because it really [82:38] does still mean something for me, but it [82:40] really was sad for me. [82:42] >> Yeah. So, anyway, there we go. So there [82:45] was a little bit of a through line there [82:46] of WordPress companies sort of seeming [82:48] to gain the eye of parts of the [82:52] community, let's put it that way. And uh [82:54] and in some cases pretty easy to [82:56] understand why that eye has been gained. [82:58] Um just I because time [83:00] >> not a single comment by the way not a [83:02] single comment about this entire AI [83:04] stuff always gets the comments and so [83:06] does the community stuff but everybody's [83:08] staying away from that one. Yeah, that's [83:10] interesting. [83:10] >> Um we'll just move on very quickly. Time [83:13] is short. But we had a few articles that [83:15] I wanted to flesh out a little bit, but [83:16] we'll just sort of skirt over them. If [83:18] you're interested in a nonWordPress [83:21] site, but a site which sometimes covers [83:22] WordPress stuff, uh, talking about [83:24] market share and decline in that market [83:27] share, this is an interesting read. It's [83:28] over on the search engine journal. Um, [83:32] and they're making the point that the [83:34] the stats for WordPress have been in [83:36] decline now for six months in a row. And [83:37] the the author of this, Roger Monty, um [83:41] makes the point that when you've got six [83:43] six consecutive months where the same [83:45] thing happens, then there's there's [83:47] there's something more than a a blip. [83:49] There's a bit of a of a pattern going [83:50] on. So, you can read and you can see [83:53] that there's data. You can see the [83:54] screen. Certainly worth looking at. Um [83:57] next stop, oh, I wanted to mention this [84:00] one. Um, I think probably the quickest [84:02] way for me to do this is just to read it [84:04] into the record, but the URL for this is [84:06] thewp communitycollective.com [84:10] and it says, "The state of the uh state [84:12] of the community survey aims to [84:14] understand the current perspectives of [84:16] the people in and around the WordPress [84:17] open-source project community. The [84:20] survey is open for responses from the [84:22] 27th of May through to the 28th of June. [84:25] So, full 20 days to fill it out. Take [84:28] the survey below. Um and it just to [84:31] summarize the state of the community [84:33] survey is an open survey from the WP [84:36] community collective and it's really [84:38] open for anybody who works with builds [84:40] on contributes to or cares about the [84:42] WordPress open-source project and um and [84:45] it's right there. There's like probably [84:47] 10 minutes work in this I would have [84:49] thought by the time that you've filled [84:50] it out and given it some thought and [84:52] what and they're very much keen to uh to [84:55] hear your to hear your things. maybe [84:57] some of the bits that we mentioned so [84:59] far, you know, would crop up some of the [85:02] community bits around things like [85:03] cadence and what have you. [85:05] >> Go and check it out. Links in the show [85:07] notes as always. It'll be probably in [85:09] the community section, that one. And [85:11] then we're kind of running very much low [85:14] on time, so I'll I'll drop this one [85:15] maybe as our last one. Um [85:19] if you're interested in the [85:20] accessibility day coming up in October, [85:23] it's a way off I know but they're u [85:25] being good custodians of that project [85:27] and they're now on the lookout uh for [85:30] speakers. So it's the 7th of October [85:32] when the actual event takes place but [85:35] they're looking for some speakers and [85:38] there's information here about the kind [85:40] >> if you scroll down can you see the [85:41] deadline? [85:42] >> Yeah, where is it? [85:46] There we go. Um, [85:50] tomorrow. [85:50] >> Wait, did I get this wrong? Sorry. Yeah, [85:52] I knew it was tight, but I didn't [85:54] realize it was that tight. Oh, I know [85:56] why. I bookmarked this about Yeah, I [85:58] bookmarked this when I was in Poland and [85:59] I thought, "Oh, that's quite a while." [86:01] But no, so you'd have to submit this by [86:03] tomorrow. [86:04] >> Tomorrow. Yep. [86:05] >> 9th of J. Yeah, tomorrow. There we go. [86:08] >> Unless they extend it, which I have no [86:09] idea if they will or not. [86:10] >> Yeah, maybe they will. Maybe they will. [86:12] But anyway, go and if if that's your [86:13] thing, go and check it out. Um, yeah, I [86:16] think that's it. There's a couple of [86:17] pieces that I did want to mention, but [86:19] we're probably not going to have time [86:20] for them. I'll just I'll just go through [86:21] them ever so quick. This is an [86:23] interesting piece by Dre. Uh, and it [86:26] kind of seems to reflect what's going on [86:28] with Automatic and WP Engine. It seems [86:30] like a similar story unfolded on the [86:32] Drupal side with a company uh in the [86:35] well Drupal and WordPress space. And [86:37] it's kind of interesting. Dric obviously [86:40] wants people to be nice to one another [86:42] and uh grow the ecosystem, not just [86:44] their own products and services. And [86:47] also speaking of Drupal, uh Akismmit, [86:50] which is a long-standing plugin the [86:52] millions of people I'm sure have got on [86:54] their WordPress websites, anti-PAM [86:55] plugin by automatic uh is now apparently [86:58] available as a Drupal. We don't say mod [87:01] uh plugin, we say module. So uh yeah, [87:04] you can get that over there. And that as [87:07] they say is it. That is everything I [87:11] have got time for. [87:13] Any final comments? [87:17] >> No, a lot of good stuff today. [87:18] >> Yeah, Iran said he's got a Oh, he's [87:20] gone. He's just saying thanks for the [87:22] fun podcast. Have a pet on me. I will. [87:25] Thank you. That's great. I'll do that. [87:27] But not actually on you as you point out [87:29] the AI. That's easy to say. The That is [87:32] actually hard to say. The AI angle. [87:34] That's not easy. Should be optin. So, [87:37] we're talking, we're going back to the [87:38] plug-in here, aren't we? From site [87:39] ground. Uh, if WP uh, sorry, WP7, enable [87:43] it if you want it with experiments. If [87:45] you don't want it, don't enable it. And [87:47] >> can I interrupt and just say if you're [87:49] not following Elliot Richmond in places [87:51] where videos, you should be. He is an [87:54] amazing videographer and his Tik Tok [87:57] channel and his YouTube channel are so [87:59] well done [88:01] >> and he's very nice man as well and does [88:04] a cracking pizza. I think he had to do I [88:07] could be wrong Elliot but I think you [88:08] had something like 70 to do last night [88:10] or something, didn't you? Or some [88:12] bizarre or maybe that's this coming [88:14] weekend. Anyway, uh good luck with that [88:16] if it hasn't already happened. And then [88:19] finally the webinar. Hi beautiful [88:21] people. It's been a while. I didn't get [88:22] to tune into your show, Nathan, but I [88:24] hope you are good. I am good. Thank you. [88:26] Uh, nice to see you guys. And as we as [88:28] as the webinar introduces himself, will [88:31] knock it on the head and say it's time [88:34] to go. Uh, so you'll have to watch it on [88:36] replay. Um, if that's all right with [88:38] you. So, it's only time for the sort of [88:40] handwave of joy. I'm going to call it [88:43] that, the handwave of joy. There we all [88:45] are. So, quick thanks from me. Thanks to [88:47] Michelle. Oh, look. I can't do it now [88:50] that I'm on the other side and I've [88:52] memorized. That's muscle memory only. I [88:55] can't do it. There's Michelle. [88:57] >> I am. [88:58] >> There's Mark. There's Steve. Okay, I can [89:00] lock that bit in. That's fine. We will [89:02] be back next week. We'll publish this [89:04] tomorrow uh as a podcast episode, but [89:07] we'll be back next week. Join us then. [89:08] But thank you, Steve. Thank you, [89:10] Michelle. Thank you, Mark. Appreciate [89:12] it. We'll see you next week. Take care. [89:14] Bye bye. Bye.  📄 **Full text:** ![[Full Document Contents/Articles/This Week in WordPress #375.md|This Week in WordPress #375 by YouTube]] ## Highlights - like 180 degree turn for him with security. Suddenly vulnerabilities that had never been found before were getting found and exploited. Um, and so Matt's response has been to lock down the WordPress repo for 24 hours after every release now. >> So kind of curious. I don't know if you saw this bit. I don't know if this number seems to be a a big number or not, but he says right at the top of the article, he's trying to paint the picture of how AI has made most software ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01ktvd0tfvdvprfm9zb8pnhs9k)) - Tags: 👻 ai highlighted - I know why I'm logging in. So, I can avoid that dashboard. But, that's a really good point and I I use the example of TechCrunch a lot because I can only imagine how many people are logged into the TechCrunch WordPress instance at one time because I don't know how many pieces they write a day. Maybe it's 10 pieces a day. And so all of that there will be multiple people logging in and and WordPress could literally become their kind of internet really, couldn't it? And so having that intel about I don't know who's doing what at this time and notes about what ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01ktvd0tmw0pm9zzx71b194fdj)) - Tags: 👻 ai highlighted - experimental customizable WordPress dashboard. We'll be coming back to the repository a little bit. However, this is going to start, this piece that you're looking at now is going to start um a conversation about community. There's going to be a few pieces that I've put together in a row that are all to do with community. Um Courtney, who was on the call a bit ago, I don't know if she's still with us, but she was on the call a little while ago. Courtney has been talking about uh contributor dashboards for a very long time. She's been wanting to get this launched, I think, to raise the awareness of what ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01ktvd0v3egctbfhgfnb9y031c)) - Tags: 👻 ai highlighted - people are doing out in the WordPress space. So, I don't know, Courtney, if you've got any commentary that you want to add into this, but here we are. If you go to wpcontributor-b.org, um, I don't know the status of this. Like, I'm not sure who's in charge of it. It I'm not sure who put this out there, whether it's an automatic thing or not. I genuinely don't know. But it will it will give a summary of a few things. There's a couple of menu items on the left. There's this ladder view. ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01ktvd0v9k4zyzz8bvn0jvcyn7)) - Tags: 👻 ai highlighted