WordCamp Europe 2021 Online Track 1 Day 3  [[3. Resources/Readwise/Full Document Contents/Articles/WordCamp Europe 2021 Online Track 1 Day 3|Full Document Contents]] ## Document Notes --- tags: #WordPress #OpenSource #Community #Technology Author: [Courtney Robertson] Source: [WordCamp Europe 2021 Transcript] Reference: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k] date created: 2024-09-10 10:30 --- # Title: The Value of Community and Contribution in WordPress ## Table of Contents: - [[#Introduction]] - [[#WordPress Community Overview]] - [[#Open Source Contributions]] - [[#Sponsor Involvement]] - [[#Future of WordPress]] - [[#🎯 Conclusion:]] ### References: 1. WordCamp Europe 2021 Transcript 2. WordPress.org 3. WP Tavern ## 📝 Summary: The session from WordCamp Europe 2021 highlights the role of the WordPress community, the importance of open-source contributions, and the collaboration between contributors and sponsors. The discussions also explore the future of WordPress and how its open-source nature drives growth in the web ecosystem. It is emphasized that contributing to WordPress is a way of supporting a wider vision of the open web. ## 📖 Main Content: ### 🗒️ Notes - **WordPress Ecosystem**: WordPress powers over 40% of websites globally. This figure represents the significant reach and importance of this open-source CMS. - WordPress supports developers, businesses, and users in their online ventures. - The economic impact of WordPress is estimated to exceed $500 billion annually. - **Community Engagement**: - WordPress is built and maintained by its community, which includes developers, designers, content creators, and end-users. - Events like WordCamp foster collaboration, networking, and learning within this diverse group. - Contributions can be technical (code, themes, plugins) or non-technical (support, translations, documentation). - **Importance of Sponsors**: - Sponsors help fund WordCamp and other community-driven events. - Sponsorship from large companies like Google and WP Engine allows the WordPress community to thrive. - Contributions are not only monetary but often involve direct collaboration with the community. - **The Future of WordPress**: - The session touches on headless CMS options and API integrations, highlighting the flexibility of WordPress to adapt to new technologies. - The future of WordPress is seen as community-driven, with a focus on inclusivity and expanding the role of open-source contributions. ## 🗣️ Paraphrase: 1. *Original*: "WordPress and other CMS platforms offer a lot of flexibility in how businesses present themselves online. We want to make sure people have access to the right tools and statistics to help them grow." *Paraphrase*: Businesses using CMS platforms like WordPress benefit from a high degree of customization, which enables them to tailor their online presence. It is essential that they have the appropriate resources and data insights to facilitate their expansion. 2. *Original*: "Contributing to WordPress is a way to support the open web. It's about more than just code—it's about giving back to a community that helps the web stay accessible and free." *Paraphrase*: By contributing to WordPress, individuals are promoting the larger vision of an open and accessible internet. Contribution goes beyond technical work; it's about reinforcing the values of an open and equitable web. ## 🧪 Hypotheses: 1. Increasing community involvement in non-code contributions, such as design or documentation, could further improve the diversity and inclusivity of WordPress contributors. 2. Sponsorship models could evolve to focus more on sustainability and long-term partnerships rather than event-based funding. ### 📊 Methodology: - Survey active WordPress contributors to identify barriers to entry for non-code contributions. - Analyze sponsorship engagement data to measure the impact of long-term partnerships on the WordPress ecosystem. ### ❓ Questions: 1. How can the WordPress community better support non-developers who want to contribute? 2. What role should sponsors play in shaping the future of open-source CMS platforms? ### 🔮 Future Research: 1. Investigating the impact of new CMS frameworks, such as headless WordPress, on the broader WordPress ecosystem. 2. Researching how diverse contributions (not just code) improve the resilience and adaptability of the WordPress project. ### 💡 Implications: Research in these areas could inform new strategies for growing the WordPress contributor base and ensuring the project's sustainability. It would also offer insights into how corporate sponsorships can better align with the open-source ethos. ### ✅ Logical validity: The arguments presented during the session reflect strong **inductive reasoning** supported by real-world evidence (e.g., the growth of WordPress and its community). For instance, the claim that "WordPress powers over 40% of the web" is factually backed and used to support the idea that the ecosystem is robust and growing. This **appeal to facts/evidence** reinforces the credibility of the speakers. - **Causal Reasoning**: There is clear reasoning that links open-source contributions to the long-term success and innovation within WordPress, supported by examples of community and sponsor involvement. - **Balanced and Nuanced Views**: The discussion does not solely focus on developers but also on non-technical contributors, showcasing a well-rounded view of how diverse input is crucial for the growth of WordPress. ### Logical Fallacies: - No major fallacies were identified in the discussions, as the points made were well-supported by examples and data. However, **Hasty Generalization** could be considered when discussing future trends of WordPress based solely on past growth data without considering external competitive factors. ## 🎯 Conclusion: The WordCamp Europe 2021 session underscored the importance of the WordPress community and the critical role of both developers and non-developers in ensuring its continued success. Sponsors play a significant part in supporting these community initiatives, while the future of WordPress remains focused on inclusivity, flexibility, and open-source collaboration. The session provided valuable insights into the evolving nature of WordPress as a CMS and as a community-driven project. Short Summary for [WordCamp Europe 2021 Online Track 1 Day 3](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k) by [Merlin](https://merlin.foyer.work/) The Hubo Platform at WordCamp Europe 2021: Overview of Features and Content for Attendees [16:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=972) WordCamp Europe 2021 Online Platform Overview [18:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=1119) Acknowledgement of event sponsors and engagement with audience [23:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=1426) Preparation and research are crucial for successful partnerships [26:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=1562) Benefits of including a message with your business [30:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=1823) Under promise and over deliver agreement [32:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=1968) End-to-end testing using CorepJS [38:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=2304) Importance of N2 testing for product quality [40:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=2451) Cypress.js simplifies testing setup and maintenance [45:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=2754) Benefits of using headless WordPress [48:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=2900) Gatsby is a meta framework on top of React with performance benefits and ability to bring data from anywhere. [52:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=3176) Benefits of using Gatsby with WordPress [55:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=3339) Google invests in collaborating with CMS platforms and WordPress to provide tools for online presence and growth. [59:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=3577) Contributing to WordPress benefits the open web [1:09:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=4148) Expanding on G > [!note]+ Document Notes > tags: [#WordPress, #OpenSource, #Community, #Technology] > Author: [Courtney Robertson] > Source: [WordCamp Europe 2021 Transcript] > Reference: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k] > date created: 2024-09-10 10:30 > > # Title: The Value of Community and Contribution in WordPress > <!-- deep-read:sections start --> ## Table of Contents: 1. [Introduction](#introduction) 2. [WordPress Community Overview](#wordpress-community-overview) 3. [Open Source Contributions](#open-source-contributions) 4. [Sponsor Involvement](#sponsor-involvement) 5. [Future of WordPress](#future-of-wordpress) 6. [Conclusion](#conclusion) ### References: 1. WordCamp Europe 2021 Transcript 2. WordPress.org 3. WP Tavern ## 📝 Summary: The session from WordCamp Europe 2021 highlights the role of the WordPress community, the importance of open-source contributions, and the collaboration between contributors and sponsors. The discussions also explore the future of WordPress and how its open-source nature drives growth in the web ecosystem. It is emphasized that contributing to WordPress is a way of supporting a wider vision of the open web. ## 📖 Main Content: ### 🗒️ Notes - **WordPress Ecosystem**: WordPress powers over 40% of websites globally. This figure represents the significant reach and importance of this open-source CMS. - WordPress supports developers, businesses, and users in their online ventures. - The economic impact of WordPress is estimated to exceed $500 billion annually. - **Community Engagement**: - WordPress is built and maintained by its community, which includes developers, designers, content creators, and end-users. - Events like WordCamp foster collaboration, networking, and learning within this diverse group. - Contributions can be technical (code, themes, plugins) or non-technical (support, translations, documentation). - **Importance of Sponsors**: - Sponsors help fund WordCamp and other community-driven events. - Sponsorship from large companies like Google and WP Engine allows the WordPress community to thrive. - Contributions are not only monetary but often involve direct collaboration with the community. - **The Future of WordPress**: - The session touches on headless CMS options and API integrations, highlighting the flexibility of WordPress to adapt to new technologies. - The future of WordPress is seen as community-driven, with a focus on inclusivity and expanding the role of open-source contributions. ## 🗣️ Paraphrase: 1. *Original*: "WordPress and other CMS platforms offer a lot of flexibility in how businesses present themselves online. We want to make sure people have access to the right tools and statistics to help them grow." *Paraphrase*: Businesses using CMS platforms like WordPress benefit from a high degree of customization, which enables them to tailor their online presence. It is essential that they have the appropriate resources and data insights to facilitate their expansion. 2. *Original*: "Contributing to WordPress is a way to support the open web. It's about more than just code—it's about giving back to a community that helps the web stay accessible and free." *Paraphrase*: By contributing to WordPress, individuals are promoting the larger vision of an open and accessible internet. Contribution goes beyond technical work; it's about reinforcing the values of an open and equitable web. ## 🧪 Hypotheses: 1. Increasing community involvement in non-code contributions, such as design or documentation, could further improve the diversity and inclusivity of WordPress contributors. 2. Sponsorship models could evolve to focus more on sustainability and long-term partnerships rather than event-based funding. ### 📊 Methodology: - Survey active WordPress contributors to identify barriers to entry for non-code contributions. - Analyze sponsorship engagement data to measure the impact of long-term partnerships on the WordPress ecosystem. ### ❓ Questions: 1. How can the WordPress community better support non-developers who want to contribute? 2. What role should sponsors play in shaping the future of open-source CMS platforms? ### 🔮 Future Research: 1. Investigating the impact of new CMS frameworks, such as headless WordPress, on the broader WordPress ecosystem. 2. Researching how diverse contributions (not just code) improve the resilience and adaptability of the WordPress project. ### 💡 Implications: Research in these areas could inform new strategies for growing the WordPress contributor base and ensuring the project's sustainability. It would also offer insights into how corporate sponsorships can better align with the open-source ethos. ### ✅ Logical validity: The arguments presented during the session reflect strong **inductive reasoning** supported by real-world evidence (e.g., the growth of WordPress and its community). For instance, the claim that "WordPress powers over 40% of the web" is factually backed and used to support the idea that the ecosystem is robust and growing. This **appeal to facts/evidence** reinforces the credibility of the speakers. - **Causal Reasoning**: There is clear reasoning that links open-source contributions to the long-term success and innovation within WordPress, supported by examples of community and sponsor involvement. - **Balanced and Nuanced Views**: The discussion does not solely focus on developers but also on non-technical contributors, showcasing a well-rounded view of how diverse input is crucial for the growth of WordPress. ### Logical Fallacies: - No major fallacies were identified in the discussions, as the points made were well-supported by examples and data. However, **Hasty Generalization** could be considered when discussing future trends of WordPress based solely on past growth data without considering external competitive factors. ## 🎯 Conclusion: The WordCamp Europe 2021 session underscored the importance of the WordPress community and the critical role of both developers and non-developers in ensuring its continued success. Sponsors play a significant part in supporting these community initiatives, while the future of WordPress remains focused on inclusivity, flexibility, and open-source collaboration. The session provided valuable insights into the evolving nature of WordPress as a CMS and as a community-driven project. Short Summary for [WordCamp Europe 2021 Online Track 1 Day 3](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k) by [Merlin](https://merlin.foyer.work/) The Hubo Platform at WordCamp Europe 2021: Overview of Features and Content for Attendees [16:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=972) WordCamp Europe 2021 Online Platform Overview [18:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=1119) Acknowledgement of event sponsors and engagement with audience [23:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=1426) Preparation and research are crucial for successful partnerships [26:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=1562) Benefits of including a message with your business [30:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=1823) Under promise and over deliver agreement [32:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=1968) End-to-end testing using CorepJS [38:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=2304) Importance of N2 testing for product quality [40:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=2451) Cypress.js simplifies testing setup and maintenance [45:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=2754) Benefits of using headless WordPress [48:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=2900) Gatsby is a meta framework on top of React with performance benefits and ability to bring data from anywhere. [52:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=3176) Benefits of using Gatsby with WordPress [55:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=3339) Google invests in collaborating with CMS platforms and WordPress to provide tools for online presence and growth. [59:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=3577) Contributing to WordPress benefits the open web [1:09:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=4148) Expanding on Gutenberg to grow businesses and be an editor companion [1:14:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=4469) Impact of moving on and leaving a legacy [1:16:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=4616) Importance of proper management of access keys and licenses in software development [1:21:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=4900) Ensure your family can access your digital assets after you pass away [1:24:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=5050) Best practices for coding legacy applications [1:28:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=5328) Ensure clarity of code comments and secure critical information [1:31:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=5480) Importance of planning for digital legacy [1:36:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=5767) Ensure multiple people can access hosting management tools for disaster recovery. [1:38:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=5911) Staying up to date with best practices in coding and frameworks [1:42:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=6177) Interview with Ugo Prince - Molly Payments [1:47:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=6431) Added Apple Pay feature to plugin [1:51:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=6695) WordPress's impact on providing digital voice [1:53:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=6813) Encouraging and supporting new contributors in the WordPress community [1:57:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=7036) Predictions for the return of in-person WordCamp events [2:07:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=7637) Robert Jakobi discusses Invisible CMS [2:11:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=7911) WordPress continues to dominate the market with a huge user base and significant economic impact. [2:14:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=8043) Creating your unique value proposition beyond WordPress [2:18:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=8304) Understanding the differences in working with Enterprise clients [2:20:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=8420) Importance of Maintenance and Support [2:24:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=8662) Embracing partnership opportunities [2:26:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=8795) Leverage partnerships with hosting providers for unique value propositions [2:30:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=9044) Provide advice and leverage your ability to help end users. [2:32:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=9168) I2 Coalition aims to improve internet security and usability for all users. [2:37:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=9426) Hosting companies focusing on unique value propositions [2:39:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=9545) Companies are moving towards in-house solution groups for unique customer questions. [2:44:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=9849) Contributing to WordPress goes beyond code [2:46:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=9974) Looking forward to in-person WordCamps for more interactions and conversations [2:59:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=10782) WordCamp Europe online brings global community together [3:01:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=10897) Celebrating the global contributors and the upcoming 5.8 release [3:06:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=11168) Improvements in navigation and design customization [3:08:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=11303) WordPress empowering users with advanced functionalities [3:12:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=11525) Gutenberg editor updates and design patterns [3:13:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=11633) Context-oriented programming in WordPress for intuitive editing and organization [3:17:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=11847) Discussing the impact of typography, colors, and improvisation on creating your own content. [3:19:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=11966) Gutenberg blocks are the fundamental elements of website design [3:23:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=12216) Gooden BG's has more accessibility work than other editors [3:25:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=12329) Bringing in blocks into other interfaces and themes [3:29:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=12589) Bitcoin and Ethereum are open source projects [3:31:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=12707) Technology has shifted from economics of scarcity to economics of abundance. [3:35:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=12945) 5 for the future encourages reinvestment in WordPress core. [3:37:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=13069) Maintaining a culture of giving back and working together is crucial for the long-term success of WordPress [3:41:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=13295) Empowering contributors to shape WordPress development [3:43:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=13398) Leveraging collective wisdom and intelligence for WordPress growth [3:47:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=13633) Bifurcation concerns within the WordPress community. [3:49:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=13756) Consider more centralized billing experience for WordPress Professionals [3:53:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=13989) Healthy and vibrant WordPress ecosystem [3:55:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=14111) Thinking long-term and contributing to solve problems [3:58:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=14328) Improving the modern feel of WordPress through Gutenberg editor vision [4:00:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=14454) Discussing the need for a flexible user interface in WordPress management [4:04:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=14673) The evolution of Gutenberg and its impact on Wordpress growth [4:06:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=14783) Empowering clients with custom themes while ensuring safety measures [4:10:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=15031) Infrastructure for successful plugins [4:12:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=15146) WooCommerce driving valuation of Automattic [4:16:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=15387) E-commerce is centralized, but the next generation wants to distinguish themselves with open source. [4:18:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=15498) Proprietary companies lack flexibility to meet evolving user needs [4:21:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=15710) Tumblr post-acquisition by Automattic in late 2019 transformed it into a clean and creative platform [4:23:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=15825) Focus on making the software robust and improve engagement [4:27:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=16052) Discussing fair recognition of contributions and promoting open ecosystems. [4:29:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=16163) Encouraging community connections and online learning for WordPress ecosystem [4:33:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=16431) WordCamp Europe 2021 had over 3,000 registered attendees from all over the world [4:36:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=16564) WordCamp Europe 2021 Online Event Highlights [4:40:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=16829) Opportunity to join WordCamp Europe organization team [4:42:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=16963) Thanking sponsors and organizing team for their contributions [4:48:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=17283) Feedback and Hope for In-person Event Next Year [4:50:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=17427) Explore Porto, share your experience, stay connected --------------------------------- Detailed Summary for [WordCamp Europe 2021 Online Track 1 Day 3](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k) by [Merlin](https://merlin.foyer.work/) The Hubo Platform at WordCamp Europe 2021: Overview of Features and Content for Attendees [16:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=972) WordCamp Europe 2021 Online Platform Overview - Introducing the online platform with sections like Hall, Lounge, Attendees, and more. - Features include agendas, sponsor interaction, attendee networking, and privacy options. [18:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=1119) Acknowledgement of event sponsors and engagement with audience - Various sponsors, including Gold Daddy Goar and Jetpack, are thanked for their support. - Sponsors are invited for short interviews to discuss their contributions to the WordPress community. [23:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=1426) Preparation and research are crucial for successful partnerships - Research potential partners thoroughly to increase chances of success - Develop a concept that benefits both parties for successful partnership [26:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=1562) Benefits of including a message with your business - Helps potential partners understand your business and product. - Highlights the strong features of your business and product, making you stand out. - Demonstrates effort in making things easier for the other party, leading to appreciation. [30:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=1823) Under promise and over deliver agreement - Balance and managing expectations are key - Regular positive communication is crucial for nurturing partnerships [32:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=1968) End-to-end testing using CorepJS - End-to-end testing validates the entire software system from start to end, ensuring integration and external interfaces. - It increases the speed of test execution and ensures specific functionalities from customers are optimized. [38:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=2304) Importance of N2 testing for product quality - Customer dissatisfaction due to plugin functionalities not meeting expectations can lead to bad reviews and loss of trust - N2 testing includes manual testing to avoid human errors and automation testing to increase test coverage, ensuring high product quality [40:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=2451) Cypress.js simplifies testing setup and maintenance - Cypress.js is a user-friendly framework for end-to-end testing, ideal for beginners. - It offers easy configuration, readability, maintenance, and supports BDD testing, including backend APIs and page objects. [45:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=2754) Benefits of using headless WordPress - Performance advantage by connecting to an API instead of server - Choice between client-side rendering (CSR) or server-side rendering (SSR) based on specific needs [48:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=2900) Gatsby is a meta framework on top of React with performance benefits and ability to bring data from anywhere. - Gatsby is a meta framework on top of React with various out-of-the-box tools for fast app development and the ability to use React libraries. - Nexes is an open source server-side rendering tool that provides backend support, hot code reloading, automatic routing, and more. [52:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=3176) Benefits of using Gatsby with WordPress - Gatsby works well with WordPress and the ecosystem is ideal for building websites. - Options like WP graphql plugin and various starter kits are available to enhance your development experience. [55:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=3339) Google invests in collaborating with CMS platforms and WordPress to provide tools for online presence and growth. - Google supports businesses, bloggers, and individuals to establish their online presence by offering tools and resources. - Google works closely with CMS platforms and WordPress to develop plugins and improve the platform to enhance user experiences and provide valuable insights. [59:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=3577) Contributing to WordPress benefits the open web - Contributing to WordPress aligns with the open web goals of the company Extendify - Open source platforms like WordPress have a significant impact on the open web [1:09:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=4148) Expanding on Gutenberg to grow businesses and be an editor companion - Staying updated on WordPress through various channels like sharing links and connecting with the community - Participating in the WordPress community for collaboration, growth, and a shared goal [1:14:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=4469) Impact of moving on and leaving a legacy - Individuals leaving can impact the team's performance and dynamics. - Legacy code and knowledge can create challenges for the team. [1:16:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=4616) Importance of proper management of access keys and licenses in software development - Properly managing access keys and licenses can prevent critical issues when key personnel are unavailable - Consider registering licenses and accounts to a central company account for better disaster recovery [1:21:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=4900) Ensure your family can access your digital assets after you pass away - Keep track of all your subscriptions and policies for easy access and claim by family - Grant access to important digital accounts like photo collections and online memberships to ensure continuity [1:24:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=5050) Best practices for coding legacy applications - Stay updated with current best practices to improve legacy code - Prioritize maintainability over writeability for long-term code readability and maintenance [1:28:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=5328) Ensure clarity of code comments and secure critical information - Be mindful of code comments to include context and explanation of code functionality. - Implement robust identity and access management system for secure handling of critical information. [1:31:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=5480) Importance of planning for digital legacy - Consider sharing Google account information with trusted individuals - Utilize dead man switch services to ensure final wishes are carried out [1:36:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=5767) Ensure multiple people can access hosting management tools for disaster recovery. - Consider assigning role-based accounts to meet the requirement of suppliers. - Argue for role-based accounts for business continuity and access assurance. [1:38:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=5911) Staying up to date with best practices in coding and frameworks - Keeping track of changes in programming languages and frameworks - Being aware of deprecated functions and staying current with new updates [1:42:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=6177) Interview with Ugo Prince - Molly Payments - Discussion on sponsoring WordCamp events and community support. - Future plans for Molly Payments and WordPress integration. [1:47:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=6431) Added Apple Pay feature to plugin - Simplified Apple Pay integration for merchants - Excited for upcoming in-person events [1:51:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=6695) WordPress's impact on providing digital voice - WordPress empowers individuals and organizations through Open Source for innovation and flexibility. - WP Engine offers resources like public speaking workshops to promote diversity and representation in WordPress community. [1:53:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=6813) Encouraging and supporting new contributors in the WordPress community - Providing resources on.org for new contributors - Offering mentorship and connections with experienced contributors in a supportive environment [1:57:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=7036) Predictions for the return of in-person WordCamp events - Debate over greetings like elbow bump, fist bump, or hug at the event - Encouragement to visit sponsor booths and network at the event [2:07:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=7637) Robert Jakobi discusses Invisible CMS - Robert has 20 years of experience as an open source executive and collaborates with small to Fortune 500 companies as a global strategist. - An international speaker and contributor to open source communities, Robert works to increase revenue and market awareness. [2:11:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=7911) WordPress continues to dominate the market with a huge user base and significant economic impact. - WordPress is projected to have a market size of 630 billion in 2021, positioning it among the top brands worldwide like Tesla and Apple. - WordPress runs 41-42% of all sites on the internet, with 163 million unique visitors monthly, making it a lucrative platform for developers and businesses. [2:14:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=8043) Creating your unique value proposition beyond WordPress - Focus on what makes you uniquely valuable in the economy of WordPress ecosystem - Ask yourself key questions to identify your special and unique contributions [2:18:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=8304) Understanding the differences in working with Enterprise clients - Enterprise client engagements have different requirements and expectations compared to local businesses - Identify your strengths and preferences to feel successful in your work [2:20:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=8420) Importance of Maintenance and Support - Content and creative individuals may not enjoy coding and prefer custom themes with PHP - Key areas like content management, project management, SEO, accessibility, performance, security are crucial in all projects [2:24:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=8662) Embracing partnership opportunities - Recognizing and embracing partnerships can lead to new opportunities and value propositions. - Partnerships can involve integrating solutions and creating exclusivity around service offerings. [2:26:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=8795) Leverage partnerships with hosting providers for unique value propositions - Consider utilizing white label or backend integration with hosting partners like InMotion, WP Engine, Liquid Web, Cloudways - Explore tools for workflow automation, privacy policies, and SEO enhancements to upsell and enhance customer experience [2:30:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=9044) Provide advice and leverage your ability to help end users. - Sharing your knowledge will impart information and knowledge to your end users. - Building marinara sauce for the whole year is a labor-intensive process that requires a team effort. [2:32:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=9168) I2 Coalition aims to improve internet security and usability for all users. - I2 Coalition focuses on advocating for small businesses in the internet economy and influencing government policies. - The coalition aims to raise the baseline of performance, security, and usability for all end users, and recommends hosting providers and domain name providers to join. [2:37:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=9426) Hosting companies focusing on unique value propositions - Companies are striving to offer specialized services like security tools, performance enhancements, and analytics. - Customers are advised to demand quality support and assistance in building and optimizing websites. [2:39:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=9545) Companies are moving towards in-house solution groups for unique customer questions. - Having in-house solution groups can enhance customer support and experience. - Engaging with and educating customers is key in differentiating hosting services. [2:44:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=9849) Contributing to WordPress goes beyond code - Explore various ways to contribute - translations, themes, updates, and more - Benefits of contributing include learning, skill improvement, early knowledge of changes, and potential for company growth [2:46:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=9974) Looking forward to in-person WordCamps for more interactions and conversations - Online WordCamps are well-organized and have great tools, but lack the personal interactions - Anticipating the return to in-person events for hallway conversations, networking, and problem-solving [2:59:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=10782) WordCamp Europe online brings global community together - Participants from all over the world tuning in - Diverse perspectives and constant innovation in WordPress community [3:01:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=10897) Celebrating the global contributors and the upcoming 5.8 release - The challenge of deciding what to include in the 5.8 release - Highlights of improvements in the Gutenberg block editor for site building and design tools [3:06:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=11168) Improvements in navigation and design customization - New features include menu structure viewing, customization options, and automatic collapse into an icon menu - Integration with the fullsite editor and introduction of Global Styles for streamlined design changes [3:08:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=11303) WordPress empowering users with advanced functionalities - WordPress is now allowing users to easily interact with and learn advanced features like queries and loops through blogs. - Users can now achieve complex website designs and functionalities with simple clicks, enhancing accessibility and customization. [3:12:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=11525) Gutenberg editor updates and design patterns - Discussion on design primitives and bug fixes for editor interactions. - Introduction of transforms and patterns for easier content manipulation and design customization. [3:13:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=11633) Context-oriented programming in WordPress for intuitive editing and organization - Utilizing hooks and filters for powerful program extension - Introduction of context-oriented editing with Gutenberg for intelligent suggestions and tool organization [3:17:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=11847) Discussing the impact of typography, colors, and improvisation on creating your own content. - Emphasizing the importance of experimentation and playing with design elements to discover new and interesting visual effects. - Addressing the question of potential membership integration in the core of WordPress and the considerations for adding new features to the platform. [3:19:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=11966) Gutenberg blocks are the fundamental elements of website design - Gutenberg blocks allow for creating any content imaginable - Fetching data via WP Rest API can provide access to Gutenberg styles like the dual tone effect [3:23:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=12216) Gooden BG's has more accessibility work than other editors - Gooden BG's editor has more accessibility work than Squarespace and Wix editors - Gutenberg editor allows bringing all meta fields into the main editing window, thus rethinking in a more powerful way [3:25:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=12329) Bringing in blocks into other interfaces and themes - Working to bring in blocks into other interfaces like widgets in 5.8, bridging the classic world and where blocks are heading without any changes required - The concept of meta becoming part of WordPress and plugins making it easier to understand for people working with it [3:29:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=12589) Bitcoin and Ethereum are open source projects - WordPress has learned from previous open source efforts, like Linux, to prioritize community orientation - Discussion on the importance of open source and public goods in society and the role of capitalism [3:31:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=12707) Technology has shifted from economics of scarcity to economics of abundance. - Network effects and open ecosystem make technology more valuable as they are used more. - Expanding technology allows for growth of the pie overall, raising wealth and standard of living for everyone. [3:35:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=12945) 5 for the future encourages reinvestment in WordPress core. - 5 for the future initiative suggests contributing 5% of earnings from WordPress back into its core. - It ensures the core stays healthy and provides a thriving environment for WordPress to flourish. [3:37:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=13069) Maintaining a culture of giving back and working together is crucial for the long-term success of WordPress - Maintain culture of giving back and working together - Different parts of a software ecosystem may require different forms of governance based on their maturity [3:41:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=13295) Empowering contributors to shape WordPress development - -1.1 - Highlighting the importance of having dedicated personnel focused on learning within a community like WordPress - -1.2 - Emphasizing the unique aspect of contributors having autonomy in deciding on contributions to WordPress development [3:43:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=13398) Leveraging collective wisdom and intelligence for WordPress growth - Encouraging commitment to a process that brings out the best answers and wisdom from contributors. - Suggesting companies commit resources to full-time people working on core and utilizing their marketing and messaging expertise for redefining WordPress in different countries. [3:47:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=13633) Bifurcation concerns within the WordPress community. - Potential negative impact of individuals leveraging gaps for personal gain, potentially harming the WordPress community. - The trend of bundling solutions to enhance onboarding experience but possibly limiting discovery and innovation. [3:49:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=13756) Consider more centralized billing experience for WordPress Professionals - Do you think a more centralized and seamless billing experience within the app would be beneficial? - Open source communities naturally rally around solutions that offer openness, control, and solve user problems. [3:53:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=13989) Healthy and vibrant WordPress ecosystem - The current state of the WordPress ecosystem is robust and healthy, creating incentives for new ventures and innovation. - The centralization of power within certain companies can pose a threat to the long-term success and growth of the WordPress ecosystem. [3:55:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=14111) Thinking long-term and contributing to solve problems - Long-term mindset is crucial for addressing problems that won't solve on their own, which creates more opportunities down the line. - Bringing cohesiveness in the economic environment and focusing on areas that fit into Price's mission of democratizing publishing. [3:58:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=14328) Improving the modern feel of WordPress through Gutenberg editor vision - Discussion on adopting the expressive modular component of single page application to enhance user experience. - Ideas on integrating the sleekness of Gutenberg across all aspects of WordPress admin. [4:00:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=14454) Discussing the need for a flexible user interface in WordPress management - Exploring the difference between managing and composing in WordPress operations - Proposing a shift towards a card-based interface for user management for improved flexibility and efficiency [4:04:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=14673) The evolution of Gutenberg and its impact on Wordpress growth - The middle part of consultants in the Wordpress ecosystem is being impacted by the evolution of Gutenberg as it empowers advanced users and squeezes out those who do not evolve. - The key skills for middle consultants now include creating block patterns and repeating blocks, leveraging the new tools and becoming fluent with Gutenberg for creating powerful content. [4:06:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=14783) Empowering clients with custom themes while ensuring safety measures - Use of custom themes gives ultimate clients more power in editing but with guardrails to prevent errors. - Gutenberg editor allows for easy undo actions and page revisions, ensuring a seamless editing experience. [4:10:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=15031) Infrastructure for successful plugins - Sending emails is still a challenge, new tools like Passport can help solve this problem. - There is economic opportunity in creating open-source WordPress-driven competitors to existing platforms. [4:12:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=15146) WooCommerce driving valuation of Automattic - WordPress mission expanded to democratize publishing and commerce - WooCommerce ecosystem resembles early days of WordPress, developer-first tool [4:16:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=15387) E-commerce is centralized, but the next generation wants to distinguish themselves with open source. - E-commerce was centralized through few players, making onboarding easy but limiting customization. - Open source gives complete control over the future and allows true control and freedom. [4:18:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=15498) Proprietary companies lack flexibility to meet evolving user needs - Successful companies struggle to innovate due to embedded growth obligations like public markets - Younger generations desire more control over design and user experience of online platforms [4:21:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=15710) Tumblr post-acquisition by Automattic in late 2019 transformed it into a clean and creative platform - Automattic tackled spam and moderation issues post-acquisition, resulting in a clean and fun space on the internet. - Youth demographic, aged 13-24, has flocked to Tumblr, with over half not using other social networks, making it a unique advertising opportunity. [4:23:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=15825) Focus on making the software robust and improve engagement - The primary goal is to make the software super robust and work with the same level of safety and anti-spam as everything else that automatic operates. - The aim is to increase engagement and activity, allowing content creators to monetize attention through memberships, exclusive content, and more. [4:27:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=16052) Discussing fair recognition of contributions and promoting open ecosystems. - Exploring ways to recognize the contributions of translators, documenters, and other contributors in a fair manner. - Considering open ecosystems as a space for greater freedom and economic output, potentially leading to opportunities for new systems to emerge over time. [4:29:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=16163) Encouraging community connections and online learning for WordPress ecosystem - Exploring the importance of community connections and interactions at events for WordPress contributors and users. - Emphasizing the potential of online learning and outreach to expand the impact of WordPress beyond physical events. [4:33:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=16431) WordCamp Europe 2021 had over 3,000 registered attendees from all over the world - More than 1,800 people participated in the online event - 29 different decisions were made for the event with 48 speakers, presenters, and panelists [4:36:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=16564) WordCamp Europe 2021 Online Event Highlights - Online event saved money on travel expenses and made it accessible for all - Included Contributor Day as part of the event, elevated contributors' role in WordPress community, and involved sponsors to showcase their contributions [4:40:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=16829) Opportunity to join WordCamp Europe organization team - Join the organization team for a valuable personal and professional experience - Consider contributing through the Five for the Future program by donating resources or time to WordPress Community [4:42:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=16963) Thanking sponsors and organizing team for their contributions - Recognizing sponsors like GoDaddy, Jetpack, WCommerce, WP Engine, Google, and others for their support - Appreciating the organizing team for their dedication and hard work in making the event successful [4:48:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=17283) Feedback and Hope for In-person Event Next Year - Participants are encouraged to share feedback on WordCamp Europe 2021 to help improve future events. Organizers are hopeful for an in-person event next year but acknowledge uncertainty. - Volunteers express gratitude for attendees, share excitement for hosting WordCamp Europe 2022 in Porto, highlighting the city's charm and inviting attendees for a warm welcome. [4:50:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k&t=17427) Explore Porto, share your experience, stay connected - Discover Porto's beauty and food scene while feeling like a local - Don't miss the chance to engage by writing a blog post and using the event hashtag Transcript for [WordCamp Europe 2021 Online Track 1 Day 3](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IvKy3322k) by [Merlin](https://merlin.foyer.work/) 961.82 - 972.76 [Music] 987.52 - 990.52 Monto 1000.6 - 1002.24 hello everyone welcome to word Camp 1002.48 - 1004.64 Europe we seem to be having a little bit 1004.76 - 1006.16 of trouble with moncho's audio 1007.04 - 1009.4 unfortunately now it's off now it's off 1010.08 - 1013.04 you are hola even I have these with 1013.24 - 1013.72 light you 1014.88 - 1018.48 know I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry three 1018.72 - 1020.24 days I think we're all just a little 1020.6 - 1022.88 tired but we have such a great schedule 1023.32 - 1024.08 today so let's get 1025.04 - 1027.16 started welome this is our yearly 1027.56 - 1028.76 encounter for the WordPress community 1029.36 - 1031.52 and everyone is invited this is an event 1031.84 - 1034.12 organized by a group of volunteers and 1034.28 - 1036.08 we hope you will find the content and 1036.28 - 1038.36 the contact unit for your personal or 1038.68 - 1042.56 professional 1040.04 - 1042.36 development now for those of us who are 1042.56 - 1044.12 just joining us for the first time today 1044.6 - 1046.44 I have a presentation for you to show 1046.84 - 1050.92 you uh our online platform so this is 1051.16 - 1053.76 the hubo platform the first page is 1053.92 - 1055.32 called the hall it's where you can find 1055.6 - 1057.44 it's basically the home page of the 1057.64 - 1059.6 event the agenda will show you 1060.12 - 1062.32 everything that's happening the lounge 1062.8 - 1064.48 is where our sponsors are waiting to 1064.68 - 1066.4 talk to you so please go stop by to 1066.64 - 1069.04 their tables see their demos ask them 1069.6 - 1071.96 questions attendees you can see everyone 1072.28 - 1073.92 else who is attending the event with you 1074.08 - 1076.08 and even schedule meetings with them 1076.24 - 1078.64 send them chats one important note here 1078.92 - 1080.48 is that if you do not want to be 1080.76 - 1082.72 contacted there is a little privacy 1083.36 - 1085.4 option up in your profile up in the top 1085.64 - 1088.36 right corner so that you can opt out of 1088.6 - 1090.76 meetings and chats important if if you 1090.84 - 1092.64 don't want to be contacted but if you do 1092.92 - 1095.28 this is a nice way to see folks uh since 1095.48 - 1097.92 we're virtual again sponsors is where 1098.08 - 1099.72 we've got our sponsor booths and finally 1100.16 - 1101.64 rooms is where you will find the 1101.84 - 1103.88 question and answer sessions after many 1104.32 - 1105.52 of our talks and workshops 1106.88 - 1109.2 today and today today we have ready for 1109.44 - 1112.24 you long talks with Q&A sessions lining 1112.76 - 1114.84 talks and workshops on the track number 1115.12 - 1117.2 two and of course we are excited to 1117.36 - 1119.56 Welcome Matt mck as our final session 1120.08 - 1122.72 today check your agenda and choose your 1123.08 - 1126.56 favorite 1124.4 - 1126.4 content you can actually add your 1126.56 - 1128.2 favorite content to your agenda there's 1128.36 - 1130.24 a little add to calendar button which is 1130.44 - 1133 super 1133.92 - 1136.32 handy pay a visit to our sponsor boards 1136.68 - 1138.92 and L tables of course we'd like to 1139.08 - 1140.48 thank the sponsors for the big support 1140.92 - 1142.68 they are doing for this event without 1143.08 - 1145.8 them this wouldn't be possible let's 1146.04 - 1146.68 start with the super 1148.24 - 1153.12 admins thank you so much sponsors yes we 1153.28 - 1154.4 have gold daddy goar 1155.44 - 1159.92 Pro 1157.64 - 1158.64 jetpack R 1159.92 - 1160.92 boxes side 1162.44 - 1163.44 ground wo 1164.56 - 1165.56 Commerce WB 1166.8 - 1169.16 engine and yo H thank you so 1169.96 - 1172.88 much thank you so so so much and thank 1173.04 - 1174.72 you as well to our admin sponsors 1175.72 - 1177.24 something very important for you to know 1177.6 - 1179.44 about our sponsors today is that we are 1179.96 - 1181.8 inviting even more of them onto the 1181.96 - 1184.12 stage with us for short interviews about 1184.56 - 1186.12 how they contribute to the WordPress 1186.72 - 1188.56 community so let me go ahead and thank 1188.72 - 1192.56 our admin sponsors devis extendi and 1193.56 - 1197.24 Google ayos Molly payments and Pantheon 1199.08 - 1202.16 radics with. online domains rocket 1202.6 - 1205.12 genius with gravity gravity forms and 1205.32 - 1205.68 also wpmu 1207.96 - 1210.92 Dev and thank you to all incredible 1211.52 - 1213.8 editors sponsors there are so many of 1213.96 - 1216.4 you we can't name you all but we are 1216.56 - 1218.36 proud to share your logos on the screen 1220.84 - 1223.84 here thank you so much thank you please 1224.08 - 1226.6 don't forget to visit our sponsors at 1226.76 - 1228.56 their Lounge tables go over to their 1228.76 - 1230.68 virtual booths pick up all of the gifts 1230.96 - 1232.12 that they have for you all of the 1232.24 - 1233.28 materials that they have prepared 1234 - 1235.72 they're excited to be here with us this 1236.96 - 1239.08 year if you know someone that didn't 1239.6 - 1240.96 have the chance to register for the 1241.12 - 1243.2 event you can send them a link to our 1243.48 - 1244.92 YouTube channels where we are streaming 1245.28 - 1248.08 the event live outside this platform and 1248.24 - 1249.8 thanks to YouTube you don't have to 1249.96 - 1251.92 worry if you miss something we will post 1252.32 - 1254.48 all the sessions on your uh on our 1255.2 - 1257.4 YouTube Channel Once the event is over 1258.92 - 1261.64 and don't forget to use our hashtags on 1261.88 - 1263.44 social media to share what's going on 1263.64 - 1264.96 today so we have 1265.96 - 1266.96 hwcu and 1268.6 - 1274.84 wc2021 1270.72 - 1274.4 also WC Europe on Facebook and wc Europe 1274.84 - 1279.32 on 1276.52 - 1279.04 Instagram and last but certainly not 1279.32 - 1281.56 least we have an important reminder for 1281.76 - 1284.24 you welome Europe takes our code of 1284.48 - 1286.8 conduct very seriously in order to 1286.96 - 1288.72 ensure that this is a safe welcoming 1289.24 - 1292.64 event for our diverse Community when you 1292.84 - 1294.44 register to participate in this event 1294.84 - 1296.48 you agree to follow the code of conduct 1297.48 - 1299.6 which outlines our expectations for 1299.92 - 1303 attending behavior in short be 1303.6 - 1306.2 considerate respectful and collaborative 1307.04 - 1309.56 with your fellow attendees but if you 1309.68 - 1311.32 see any kind of negative or gross 1311.64 - 1313.96 Behavior please let us now using the 1314.12 - 1315.96 code of conduct form on our 1317.04 - 1322.2 website 1319.32 - 1321.92 now let's get started with our final set 1322.2 - 1323.64 of lightning talks for the 1326.96 - 1329.96 event so it is my honor today to 1330.96 - 1333.04 announce this first group of talks three 1333.32 - 1335.4 lightning talks 10 minutes each with 1335.6 - 1336.88 Incredible content each one of 1338.44 - 1341.32 them in the first place effective tips 1341.6 - 1342.6 to stablishing and maintaining 1343.16 - 1345.16 successful Partnerships by Ros 1346.56 - 1347.56 daa partn 1349.16 - 1351.52 yes then then we have IND in testing 1352.04 - 1354.72 with code concept JS by shanira 1356.44 - 1358.76 afros and then headless WordPress by 1358.92 - 1360.64 Alfredo Navas and we'll be back in just 1360.76 - 1362.4 a moment with all of those for you 1376.96 - 1379.96 okay 1381.88 - 1386.03 [Music] 1392.8 - 1397.08 hello hi everyone oh okay so great uh hi 1397.36 - 1399.08 everyone I just got a confirmation that 1399.2 - 1401.48 we hear each other perfectly it is great 1401.92 - 1403.52 to be here thanks so much where Camp 1403.92 - 1405.72 Europe organizers for having me again 1406.68 - 1408.8 and I am so excited Ed to kick off day 1409 - 1410.84 three with this topic that is very very 1411.04 - 1413.76 dear to my heart and it is working on 1414.6 - 1416.96 Partnerships um I like it so much 1417.24 - 1419.12 because working on Partnerships could be 1419.56 - 1422.36 fun and exciting and very very rewarding 1423.28 - 1426.48 Endeavor however if not done uh with the 1426.76 - 1428.52 right amount of care and 1429.92 - 1434 attention uh then it is a complete it 1434.12 - 1435.92 could be a complete waste of time and 1436.52 - 1439.6 resources so for the last four years I 1439.72 - 1441.04 have been working on Partnerships with 1441.52 - 1443.96 sround and in the next few minutes I 1444.08 - 1445.64 will share tips based on my experience 1446.2 - 1448.32 in this role which hopefully you will 1448.56 - 1451.24 find useful next time you work on 1451.44 - 1456.16 Partnerships 1453.24 - 1455.88 yourselves so let's start with a quick 1456.16 - 1457.92 reminder of the main stages of each 1458.24 - 1460.72 project and I'm going to go over each 1460.92 - 1462.4 one of them individually with a closer 1462.96 - 1463.76 look right 1465.6 - 1468.28 now the preparation for each partnership 1468.76 - 1470.36 project includes research for the 1470.56 - 1473.16 identification of potential partners and 1473.32 - 1475.16 then more research of the identified 1476.16 - 1478.56 potential partners and Frankly Speaking 1479.4 - 1482.92 I find this second step uh quite often 1484.32 - 1487 underestimated so take the time to get 1487.16 - 1488.8 to know your potential partner before 1489.2 - 1491.2 you actually approach them the chances 1491.6 - 1493.52 for Success are increased if you have a 1493.72 - 1496.16 concept and not just an idea and to 1496.4 - 1498.36 actually go from an idea aidea to a 1498.56 - 1501.68 concept you need to know in depth your 1501.96 - 1503.52 potential partner as much as possible 1504.24 - 1506.88 and to answer um important questions 1507.64 - 1510.8 such as who are their clients how are 1511.04 - 1513.16 they selling can I cater to these 1513.32 - 1515.6 clients and VI vice versa can they cater 1515.92 - 1517.96 to my clients what are the specifics of 1518.12 - 1520.12 their products and services how are my 1520.36 - 1522.28 products and services fit into their 1522.88 - 1524.56 offerings and without a good 1525.16 - 1526.64 understanding of your partner's business 1527.04 - 1528.48 you can come up with a partnership idea 1528.92 - 1530.72 that only suits you and your specific 1531.12 - 1532.92 business needs and the prerequisite 1533.92 - 1535.2 prerequisite for a successful 1535.88 - 1538.32 partnership is a concept that is 1538.56 - 1539.68 beneficial for both parties 1542.08 - 1545.04 always now you have created an image of 1545.2 - 1547.96 your partner so now is the perfect time 1548.56 - 1551.4 to help them do so for yourself so 1551.72 - 1553.2 instead of waiting for them to check out 1553.4 - 1555.64 the website you have sent to them you 1555.8 - 1557.92 might prompt them to do so by putting 1558.4 - 1560.56 together short and clear presentation of 1560.72 - 1562.76 your business to send along with your 1563 - 1565.28 introductory message for example there 1565.44 - 1567.84 are several benefits from this uh very 1568.04 - 1571.08 small effort at least three so one you 1571.32 - 1572.76 help the potential partner understand 1572.88 - 1574.36 your business and product this is 1574.6 - 1576.88 especially helpful and important because 1577.16 - 1579 you look for partners outside of your 1579.24 - 1580.8 specific line of business so they don't 1581.16 - 1582.76 necessarily understand or know what you 1583.04 - 1586.88 do second you get the opportunity to 1587.08 - 1588.92 highly like the strong features of your 1589.12 - 1590.96 business and product and this is a 1591.16 - 1592.72 golden opportunity that you should use 1593.52 - 1595.88 and third with this very small thing you 1596.08 - 1598.12 stand out because you've made an effort 1598.4 - 1599.96 to make things easier for the other 1600.24 - 1602.56 party which is always always appreciated 1603.56 - 1605.12 but then again we're talking about short 1605.48 - 1607.2 and clear not a deck of 50 slides 1609.16 - 1611.4 right and the same rules go for your 1611.76 - 1614.16 introductory message State your concept 1615.16 - 1616.16 show the value to their customers 1617.12 - 1618.92 demonstrate the benefits for the partner 1619.4 - 1620.6 as a business these are two different 1620.92 - 1622.2 things and this is where your initial 1622.56 - 1625.16 research come very handy State your 1625.36 - 1627.92 competitive advantage in other words uh 1628.12 - 1630.28 tell them why they should work with you 1630.64 - 1632.88 in front of your competitors and in 1633.04 - 1635.16 order to convince them to do so use a 1635.44 - 1637.64 success story but use numbers in that 1637.84 - 1640.56 success story and not superlatives for 1641 - 1643 example keep in mind that your 1643.2 - 1646.24 introductory message is the opening act 1646.84 - 1648.16 to the critical part of establishing 1648.76 - 1650.88 successful Partnerships which is 1652.6 - 1654.2 negotiations here are some key 1654.44 - 1655.76 principles to observe when you enter 1656.76 - 1660.28 them stay flexible this means State your 1660.44 - 1663.36 goals but don't give away everything uh 1663.56 - 1664.76 that you're ready to offer in return 1665 - 1666.92 from the beginning any partner 1667.6 - 1669.36 especially the larger one will try to 1669.52 - 1673 squeeze you in to give less and to get 1673.32 - 1678.52 more so in that case not review all your 1678.8 - 1680.64 all your cards from the beginning for 1680.8 - 1682.28 example if you're willing to offer 50% 1682.96 - 1684.64 discount for a bulk reselling start with 1684.8 - 1686.92 30 and weight if this is at all 1687.2 - 1688.64 important for your partner they will ask 1688.84 - 1690.8 for it in which case you will give it to 1691 - 1693 them but then again you will use this 1693.2 - 1695.28 opportunity to ask for something that is 1695.48 - 1695.92 important for 1697.84 - 1701.32 you mind the ego all negotiations are 1701.52 - 1703.36 driven by the business goals and that's 1703.72 - 1705.68 absolutely true but you still work with 1706.44 - 1708.56 personalities keep in mind that the 1708.84 - 1711.52 person who you're in contact with may 1711.8 - 1714.72 not be able to individually um make the 1714.88 - 1716.92 partnership happen they have a boss they 1717.04 - 1719.64 have a team but they can certainly kill 1719.88 - 1722.76 it individually so always be nice never 1723.04 - 1725.64 condenscending never root and always 1726 - 1727.84 keep in mind that making a friend of 1727.96 - 1730 your contact person actually gives you 1730.16 - 1732.28 an ambassador of your course which is a 1732.48 - 1734.52 great benefit at this stage of the 1734.64 - 1736.96 partnership and also later on when you 1737.48 - 1737.76 actually implement 1739.32 - 1740.48 it it's not 1742.12 - 1744.8 personal um during the course of 1744.96 - 1747.12 negotiations it is possible and also 1747.48 - 1748.88 probable that your partner won't always 1749.16 - 1751.24 behave the way you expect them to they 1751.36 - 1753.04 might suddenly turn not as excited about 1753.24 - 1754.76 your product as you are they might 1754.96 - 1756.96 suddenly turn slow in communication they 1757.08 - 1758.72 might even get irresponsive for a while 1759.48 - 1761.4 keep your eyes on the price keep you're 1762.48 - 1766.08 cool uh just remember what you got there 1766.36 - 1768.6 in the first place and every time when 1768.72 - 1770.88 you see a bump in the road ask what is 1771 - 1773.4 it you can do to help um I would say 1773.68 - 1776.24 that a single would it be helpful if I 1776.52 - 1778.96 did this and this message is worth 10 1779.32 - 1782.56 times more then um this is a kind 1782.88 - 1783.84 reminder type of 1786 - 1788.56 message and yet sometimes no matter what 1788.68 - 1790.4 you do it just doesn't work out 1791.12 - 1793.8 Partnerships are two-way streets you 1794 - 1795.24 don't have to do anything and everything 1795.56 - 1797.6 your partner asks from you don't be 1797.8 - 1798.88 afraid to walk away if things 1799.24 - 1800.96 continuously don't develop the way you 1801.08 - 1803.92 want to do keep your business goal in 1804.12 - 1807.76 mind wait out cost and benefit and know 1808.32 - 1809.32 that there are no Irreplaceable 1812.8 - 1814.88 Partners so hopefully you haven't walked 1815.24 - 1816.92 away and now you're at the moment of 1818.64 - 1821.32 implementation first obviously honoring 1821.88 - 1823.96 the agreement that has been done is a 1824.64 - 1827.56 must um a fellow presenter in the for 1827.84 - 1831.04 Camp you're upset uh over prom uh over 1831.68 - 1833.96 deliver under promise and I think this 1834.04 - 1836.12 is a very good rule as long as you can 1836.4 - 1839.28 do it with uh with balance and as long 1839.44 - 1840.48 as you don't overdo 1841.56 - 1845.12 it um so if possible throw in a little 1845.8 - 1848.76 extra um just to surprise the partner it 1848.88 - 1850.44 will make a very good impression like 1851.04 - 1853.88 shorten a deadline or broaden the scope 1854.56 - 1856.68 anything you can do but more importantly 1858.68 - 1861.4 if for some reason things go wrong and 1861.64 - 1864.04 you're not able to perform just exactly 1864.76 - 1866.6 as you have promised manage partner's 1867.24 - 1868.92 expectations don't leave your partner 1869.28 - 1870.56 getting nervous wondering what's 1870.84 - 1872.28 happening as soon as you know 1872.68 - 1875.64 communicate promptly inform them what 1875.8 - 1877.44 the issue might be as much as possible 1878.08 - 1879.88 and most importantly tell them what 1880.04 - 1880.72 you're doing to fix 1885.4 - 1886.72 it and finally 1888.04 - 1888.52 nurture the 1889.6 - 1892.72 Partnerships uh by the way uh this um 1893 - 1894.64 actually could be at the beginning slide 1894.92 - 1897.4 of entirely new presentation so you 1897.52 - 1899.08 might want to consider this as a teaser 1899.48 - 1901.96 for World Camp Europe 2020 if the 1902.12 - 1904.8 organizer should have me again uh but 1905.12 - 1907.52 right now if I have to summarize what 1907.8 - 1910.24 keeps Partnerships going this is 1910.8 - 1912.84 consistent regular positive 1914.36 - 1916.08 communication consistently communicate 1916.6 - 1918.52 the Developers of a partnership with all 1919.32 - 1921.56 stakeholders not just the partner but 1921.72 - 1923.04 also your team and third parties 1923.48 - 1926.4 involved everybody establish a line of 1926.56 - 1928.12 regular communication with your partner 1928.84 - 1930.84 at your own pace it doesn't mean have 1931.08 - 1933.28 meetings every week you will find what 1933.44 - 1937.84 works best for you and use it not just 1937.96 - 1941 to discuss issues but to share and 1941.24 - 1944 follow up on each other's successes to 1944.48 - 1946.68 discuss each other's developments Brin 1947.24 - 1949.4 storm ideas to continue and expand your 1949.68 - 1953.16 business 1950.76 - 1952.8 relationship this will help you stay 1953.16 - 1955.88 creative be useful to your partner and 1956.2 - 1959.4 supportive all the way and this is the 1959.64 - 1962.52 only way to ensure the success of any 1962.84 - 1964 partnership in the long 1965 - 1968.24 run thank you so much I'll be super 1968.64 - 1970.56 happy to talk to any of you in the 1970.72 - 1973.16 lounge where I'm going to where I'm 1973.28 - 1975.12 going to be with the side team thank 1976.04 - 1979.04 you 2005.6 - 2007.88 hello everyone I am Santi FR uh Q 2008.24 - 2011 engineer at weeps today I will uh show 2011.36 - 2012.84 you uh today I would like to talk about 2013.4 - 2016.24 end to end testing using corep JS I hope 2016.48 - 2018.2 you will enjoy this session and I am 2018.36 - 2023.16 from 2019.16 - 2020.96 Bangladesh so let's go to the 2035.96 - 2038.96 presentation 2056.28 - 2057.6 there we go sorry I just wanted to make 2057.72 - 2060 sure that you knew oh my internet 2060.32 - 2062.4 connection interrupt sorry okay have 2063.32 - 2067.12 fun uh so uh sorry for interrupt 2067.6 - 2070.12 interrupting um so I will show you um 2070.72 - 2073.84 end to end testing uh using CJs uh first 2074 - 2075.44 of all you have to know that what is n2n 2076.16 - 2078.84 testing NN testing is a software testing 2079.28 - 2080.56 method that validates the entire 2081 - 2082.92 software from starting to end along with 2083.12 - 2084.8 its integration and external interfaces 2085.8 - 2088.48 so if you have a complex uh system you 2088.6 - 2090.56 can validate the entire Software System 2091.56 - 2093.84 it also increases the speed of EX test 2094.16 - 2096.88 execution so you can easily find find 2097.16 - 2098.44 your software defect at early 2099.92 - 2102.48 phases and it also ensures the specific 2103 - 2104.56 functionalities that come from customer 2105.08 - 2108.64 are 2106.12 - 2108.28 optimized and it also ensures the 2108.64 - 2111.4 ensures uh that if your uh if your any 2111.64 - 2114.44 functionalities are not are changing uh 2114.64 - 2116.44 it ensures that the end testing 2116.84 - 2118.92 validates that it's the process is 2119.16 - 2123.84 working 2120.16 - 2123.36 perfectly so let's go uh to see how n2n 2123.84 - 2128.2 test 2125.8 - 2130.48 works 2128.2 - 2130.32 with in testing you have you have to 2130.48 - 2132.04 analyis your requirement of your 2132.24 - 2135.24 software system and then you have to um 2135.92 - 2137.88 uh you you have a clear idea that how 2138.16 - 2140.36 your require software requirement Works 2140.8 - 2143.6 in every aspect then you have to uh then 2143.76 - 2145.04 you have to set up your test environment 2145.68 - 2147.36 with this with your framework what you 2147.52 - 2151.04 choose and then you have to uh set up 2151.4 - 2153.08 then you have to list down that how your 2153.4 - 2156.64 system works and um last of all you have 2156.84 - 2158.92 have to check your input and output data 2159.92 - 2162.4 um and also also design and tracking 2162.8 - 2165.68 your test cases on your on your plug-in 2167.8 - 2169.48 functionalities now you have in your 2169.68 - 2172.4 mind why I am using n2n testing uh there 2172.52 - 2174.12 are so many testing methods why I'm 2174.28 - 2176.64 telling about end to end testing we have 2176.92 - 2179.4 facing many problems difficulties in our 2179.72 - 2183.72 daily life right so we um we need a uh 2184 - 2185.4 we Face problem that's why we need 2185.92 - 2190.88 Solutions 2187.32 - 2190.72 so I am describing you two examples uh 2190.88 - 2192.68 that why we need N2 testings 2194.28 - 2197.6 um first of all U uh you have you have 2197.84 - 2200.12 existing a great e-commerce plugin and 2200.28 - 2202.36 this is a complex system and before 2202.72 - 2205 release you find a silly box a silly box 2205.36 - 2207.8 that you have to fix it at hurry hurry 2208.68 - 2210.84 and uh you think that U you just test 2211.12 - 2213.36 your specific function test the specific 2213.76 - 2215.8 functionalities not testing the whole 2216.08 - 2219.04 fun um whole whole function um this uh 2220.04 - 2221.76 uh these issues affect another 2222.16 - 2224.04 functionalities but you cannot uh you 2224.16 - 2226.56 cannot find it find this defect after 2226.88 - 2228.4 release uh your customer 2229.52 - 2232.16 you'll say that this is an issue and he 2232.4 - 2234.56 get depressed so another example I will 2234.76 - 2238.8 see you that you are um uh develop a new 2238.96 - 2242.36 to-do list uh to-do task list and you um 2242.8 - 2244.88 you develop a to-do list and logging as 2245 - 2246.24 a user with email and password 2247.28 - 2251.32 and just U add some user can add some uh 2251.8 - 2255.08 task task and uh add reminder and you 2255.28 - 2258.76 push it on on the market and then uh 2259 - 2261.68 then after some uh some days your your 2261.96 - 2265.24 custo your customer loved it and um rest 2265.6 - 2268.48 come to you and say that please uh add 2268.72 - 2271.08 some more features in uh in this app and 2271.24 - 2272.68 you think that yeah I have to improve 2273.08 - 2275.48 this improve this app so you have to add 2275.8 - 2281.84 more 2277.52 - 2280.84 uh you have to add uh more features and 2281.84 - 2285.04 uh now you again push push it on Google 2285.68 - 2288.44 Google Play Store uh then after few days 2288.72 - 2291.56 you um uh without testing you release 2291.96 - 2294.44 this uh release this app so after few 2294.88 - 2298 days your customer again come to come to 2298.16 - 2301.72 you uh with uh uh with this say that 2301.92 - 2304.4 your your functionalities that you 2304.6 - 2307.48 provided are not working as EXP Ed so 2307.88 - 2308.2 what should I 2309.92 - 2313.12 do so this is your customer and they are 2313.52 - 2315.2 standing in a queue to give you a bad 2315.44 - 2317 review and they believe me they didn't 2317.4 - 2319.68 never use this again so if you if his 2319.92 - 2322.08 first impression that your plugin is not 2322.4 - 2325.96 working as as um as he expected and 2326.52 - 2328.88 those who are uh customer are already 2329.28 - 2331.4 dependent on you and have a g depress 2331.92 - 2334.72 that ow why my why this is happening and 2334.92 - 2337.04 she he he cannot conver he cannot 2338.04 - 2340.24 switch switch another pling he get 2340.44 - 2343.76 depressed that what's happening so with 2344 - 2346.44 N2 testing we can improve our product 2346.84 - 2351.24 quality and also we can um uh we can uh 2351.48 - 2355.16 avoid it major risk so for end user he 2355.28 - 2356.72 do not understand that what you are 2357.16 - 2360.56 developed and he just want that that the 2360.72 - 2363.04 feature you provided as working as he 2364.6 - 2367.76 expected so with N2 testing we can Pro 2368.2 - 2371.12 provide a good quality full product I as 2371.24 - 2373.64 a ke engineer I'm I always say that 2373.84 - 2375.12 quality and product is 2376.8 - 2379.28 everything um previous in previous days 2379.52 - 2382.6 I am also uh go to the Google store and 2383.08 - 2385.44 use one app that has a great adver 2385.96 - 2388.36 advertisement and you download this app 2389 - 2391.6 and just get I'm also just what is this 2392.16 - 2393.96 what why is functionality is not 2395.4 - 2398.4 working 2399.64 - 2402.84 um so NN testing has two types of 2403 - 2404.44 testing like manual testing and 2404.6 - 2406.56 automation testing with uh manual 2407.04 - 2410.48 testing um human can make some error as 2410.64 - 2413.04 we are human we make some mistakes uh so 2413.2 - 2414.88 human error can be avoided with manual 2415.24 - 2417.6 testing and with automation testing you 2417.76 - 2421.16 can 2418.68 - 2421 easily increase your test coverage on 2421.16 - 2422.76 your system if your system are very 2423.04 - 2426.36 complex you can easily uh easily 2426.72 - 2429.6 coverage your uh full fun whole system 2430.6 - 2433.44 so um uh for automation testing I am 2433.6 - 2436.64 using coret now let's see what is g and 2436.92 - 2437.2 how it 2441.36 - 2443.88 works PJs is responsible for 2444.12 - 2445.92 bootstrapping your test in a nodejs 2446.52 - 2448.6 process where a specific plug-in data 2449 - 2451.32 object browser sessions are injected and 2451.92 - 2453.8 ready for use within your test and 2454 - 2455.72 multiple configuration can be used 2456.32 - 2458.32 specify run test on difference between 2458.72 - 2461.12 local local dozed or even remote 2461.52 - 2462.04 continuous integration 2463.36 - 2466.24 environment so why we use um coures 2467 - 2468.8 there are many other Inn testing uh 2468.92 - 2470.64 framework why I'm telling about Inn 2471.04 - 2474.4 testing framework so let's see N2 2474.92 - 2479.08 testing is a uh latest frame sorry I'm 2479.24 - 2482.4 sorry CJs is a latest framework of n2n 2482.88 - 2485.08 testing and it's easy to set up if you 2485.2 - 2486.68 are a beginner and you see that is the 2486.88 - 2488.56 configuration is so complex you cannot 2489.08 - 2491.16 uh you have lose your interest to write 2491.44 - 2494.68 your skip right so CJs is very easy to 2494.84 - 2498.84 set 2495.96 - 2498.68 up and it also readable and easy to 2498.84 - 2500.64 maintain if you have a complex uh 2500.92 - 2503.64 complex plugin you you easily uh 2503.8 - 2505.52 maintain your course uh test 2507.48 - 2510.28 grrip and executed test using multiple 2510.72 - 2513.92 web browser like uh uh if you have any 2514.44 - 2517.72 UI issue you can uh easily understand 2518.04 - 2520.64 that uh what's your issues easily fix 2521 - 2524.72 that and it course just support bdd 2525.84 - 2528.08 testing it also compatible with backend 2528.6 - 2531.6 API and possibility of creating page 2531.88 - 2534.32 object with page object you can create 2535.04 - 2537.88 um you can make your test script so uh 2538.16 - 2540.24 readable and M easily 2541.92 - 2543.92 maintainable and it has own uh 2544.6 - 2545.6 helpers um 2546.92 - 2549.4 so yeah with CJs it fail first and it 2549.56 - 2552.72 has also interactively debug uh which is 2552.88 - 2556.12 pause and we with the pause we can 2556.44 - 2558.76 easily find that which element you uh 2558.88 - 2561.84 your web page is not find find out so 2562.12 - 2564.64 it's we can easily fix fix our issues 2565.04 - 2567.48 and repeat the run this test script 2567.8 - 2570 again and again so that we can easily um 2570.32 - 2572.32 improve our quality and find uh major 2574.96 - 2577.28 defects so so why we need a page object 2577.6 - 2581.28 model that um course JS provide us so if 2581.48 - 2583.44 you um uh if you write 2584.4 - 2588.68 your element locator and and test Cas at 2588.8 - 2591.48 the same time in your entire uh test 2591.84 - 2595.32 script um if you have to change any test 2595.96 - 2597.64 uh uh if you have to change any element 2598.28 - 2600.48 locator you have to change the entire 2600.92 - 2602 test script so this is so frustrating 2602.68 - 2605.8 right um so you um you have to 2607 - 2608.96 with page object model is a design uh 2609.12 - 2611.16 pattern where design pattern to create 2611.44 - 2614.32 an object um repository for web UI 2614.64 - 2616.88 element where all element locators used 2617.32 - 2619.84 by the application uh will be stored in 2619.96 - 2623 a uh classifi separately from the test 2623.36 - 2626.72 case so it's easy to uh why you use um 2627.2 - 2629.04 page object model it is easy to maintain 2629.8 - 2632.28 readable and reusable script so if you 2632.48 - 2634.92 have any complex system complex plug-in 2635.32 - 2635.92 you know that what 2636.64 - 2639 what type of UI you have to use again 2639.24 - 2641.08 and again you have to UI 2642 - 2644.72 Elementor again sorry UI locator again 2644.92 - 2647.16 and again so you have to separate your 2647.72 - 2650.56 uh page locators and test script 2651.88 - 2654.56 separately so we can from page object 2654.88 - 2657.04 model we can avoid it avoided code 2659.76 - 2662.12 duplication so this is a test Suite uh 2662.24 - 2665.16 I'm using U cores so this is a actually 2665.48 - 2667.8 I'm using a e-commerce plug-in and I'm 2668 - 2670.12 just logging as a vendor and I'm just 2670.32 - 2672.36 check my uh vendor functionalities are 2673.2 - 2676.92 are perfectly working or not so um uh 2677.48 - 2679.12 you you can see that's why I'm telling 2679.48 - 2681.44 about P object model there this 2682.56 - 2685.44 this I'm sorry the time is up and we 2685.56 - 2687.68 need to follow with the schedule but 2687.92 - 2689.76 please audience don't forget she will be 2690 - 2692.6 available in the in the meeting room for 2692.88 - 2695.68 qan iation so thank you s thank you so 2695.8 - 2700.24 much 2697.76 - 2698.04 thank you so 2710.64 - 2713.88 much Hello friends um my name is Alfredo 2714.44 - 2717.24 Naas and I'm going to talk you about all 2717.52 - 2720.44 this hype about headless war press um 2720.72 - 2722.32 there are two popular Frameworks right 2722.48 - 2725.28 now one is gatsbyjs and the other one is 2725.48 - 2727.64 next yes let's see which one fits 2730.44 - 2734.32 better oh one second yes okay so first 2734.56 - 2736.72 of all what is a headless WordPress a 2736.88 - 2738.72 headless WordPress in short is a 2739 - 2740.8 separation between your back end and 2740.92 - 2743.24 your front end so what this means your 2743.68 - 2746.32 editors can edit on the back end using 2747.24 - 2751.44 you know the WordPress uh UI and they 2751.56 - 2753.2 are comfortable with it and we have our 2753.56 - 2754.92 developers on the front end without 2755.28 - 2757.32 worry about about how the back end is 2757.44 - 2760.04 going to be they just need you know the 2760.72 - 2762.96 by via the API they just get the 2763.12 - 2764.92 information and they can you know they 2765 - 2765.4 can do beautiful 2767.4 - 2769.4 things uh so this comes the question 2769.72 - 2771.84 should I use a headless WordPress uh 2772.08 - 2774.56 let's see the benefits first of all we 2774.76 - 2776.48 have performance since we just connect 2776.8 - 2780.56 to an API uh we are not uh depending on 2780.72 - 2785.16 a 2782.28 - 2785.04 server uh and this means like the 2785.16 - 2787.56 hackers will be having hard time to 2787.76 - 2788.16 reach your 2790.6 - 2794.44 website and this is uh sorry and this is 2794.6 - 2797.64 my favorite uh since we are just rely on 2797.96 - 2801.4 API we can put our our content in any 2801.84 - 2804 device we want even device that they are 2804.16 - 2806.64 not really invented since we can put you 2806.76 - 2809.12 know our content in a smartphones a 2809.28 - 2811.24 smart cards a smart kitchen whatever you 2813.28 - 2815.8 want uh this is another thing that JS 2816.16 - 2820.48 and xjs have uh cssr or SSR in short is 2820.72 - 2822.6 client side rendering or server side 2822.76 - 2823.88 rendering which one you want to 2825.04 - 2828.32 choose uh the main difference is like on 2828.6 - 2830.32 client side rendering as the word says 2830.84 - 2832.8 like everything it's rendering on the 2833 - 2835.68 browser so that give us a lot of 2835.92 - 2838.88 performance it's faster and server side 2839.28 - 2842.24 rendering will will render on the server 2843.2 - 2845.8 and once it's server it just you know it 2845.96 - 2848.68 was uh it it will send us just the HTML 2849.48 - 2852.48 already irrated uh so 2853.6 - 2857.08 yes uh yeah this is like basically let's 2857.32 - 2858.76 see how client side rendering works 2861 - 2864.24 so we build the react code we put it on 2864.4 - 2866.4 the server the client download the react 2866.76 - 2869.12 code from the server and then react code 2869.32 - 2871.88 runs on the generates the HTML size on 2872.04 - 2874.68 the client's computer and once that the 2874.84 - 2877.88 user sees you know everything on the 2880.68 - 2882.72 screen uh then we have server side 2882.88 - 2885.72 rendering so basically uh it's going to 2886.56 - 2889.6 react is going to run on the server it's 2889.76 - 2892.28 going to irrate the HTML and then just 2892.44 - 2894.72 send it to the client that's all the the 2894.84 - 2896.88 main difference one on the client one on 2897.08 - 2900.56 the 2898.24 - 2900.48 server um this is the steps for the 2900.56 - 2902.24 server side rendering we put the react 2902.68 - 2905.04 code we put it on the server the client 2905.36 - 2908.08 request data the server runs it 2908.24 - 2910.52 generates the HTML and then it send it 2910.68 - 2910.88 to the 2912.64 - 2915.68 user so what is Gatsby this is in short 2916.64 - 2918.76 uh Gatsby is a meta framework it's on 2918.96 - 2921.04 top of react it have a bunch of tool out 2921.24 - 2923.6 of the box that can help you build apps 2924.12 - 2929.8 really 2925.2 - 2929.52 fast uh again we have a lot of tools uh 2929.8 - 2932.32 we can choose a lot we can use react uh 2932.48 - 2934.72 libraries in Gatsby since it's react 2936.28 - 2939.48 um there is these are the points uh that 2939.64 - 2943.92 you can see uh what gats we have uh we 2944.24 - 2946.44 allow to bring data from anywhere uh I 2946.56 - 2947.92 mean we can use WordPress contentful 2948.56 - 2951.68 whatever you want uh there is a lot of 2951.88 - 2953.44 performance out of the box I don't know 2953.56 - 2956.08 if you tried Gatsby in the past but if 2956.2 - 2957.88 you see your Lighthouse uh 2958.6 - 2961.44 reports with just out of the B gaty side 2961.76 - 2962.44 you will be 2964.12 - 2967.68 amazing uh next Nexes uh Nexes is an 2967.88 - 2969.76 open source Gatsby is open source too 2970.16 - 2973.36 that's really nice and it help us build 2973.72 - 2974.76 react application on the 2976.32 - 2979.8 server uh it provides a back end uh the 2979.92 - 2981.88 server site render a response to request 2982.36 - 2983.6 this is the same thing we just saw 2985.36 - 2987.48 earlier uh this is a stuff that comes 2987.76 - 2990.12 out of the book with nexc we have hot 2990.4 - 2992.88 code reloading automatic routing single 2993.32 - 2995.72 file component server rendering yeah y 2996.04 - 2999.12 yada uh this is there is more stuff uh 2999.24 - 3003.48 from next uh I you should go and look 3003.76 - 3005.48 into the docks uh there is a lot of 3005.68 - 3008.4 things really nice so let's see uh the 3008.56 - 3008.88 bat of 3009.76 - 3012.96 this so the first thing we We Care a Lot 3013.64 - 3015.72 from our customers if is this good for 3016.28 - 3018.72 for SEO uh we've been listing a lot of 3018.92 - 3020.56 stuff in the past about react and SEO 3021.12 - 3022.96 that they don't work well well let's 3023.36 - 3024.84 let's see what's the case on these two 3026.64 - 3029.52 uh next yes is super good for SEO it 3029.64 - 3032.24 loads fast uh we have the SE size 3032.68 - 3034.64 rendering and and the search engines 3035.12 - 3036.72 love it like all search engines love 3037.28 - 3043 faster 3039.12 - 3042 websites Gatsby Gatsby is fewo friendly 3043 - 3045.48 so we can we can build apps with Gatsby 3045.96 - 3047.96 I can I I told you earlier like your 3048.28 - 3052 likes house scores will be really up so 3052.44 - 3057.64 I 3053.72 - 3057.4 think I think we have tie here so both 3057.64 - 3058.28 are good for 3059.36 - 3060.88 SEO U just one 3062.32 - 3064.88 second something happened yeah over here 3066 - 3068.72 okay doesn't want to yeah okay so let's 3068.92 - 3071.44 go to the next one uh which one we want 3071.56 - 3073.56 to choose server side rendering or 3073.88 - 3078.2 static 3075.8 - 3077.88 generated Gatsby is a static side 3078.2 - 3080.68 generation tool so basically we it grabs 3081.08 - 3083.08 our WordPress side it compiles 3083.88 - 3085.52 everything and serve it to the client 3086.24 - 3087.28 there is no call to any 3088.48 - 3091.32 server next yes is main a server side 3091.52 - 3093.16 tool so it generates the pages 3093.68 - 3095.72 dynamically on this on the server and 3095.84 - 3097.08 they just send it to to the 3098 - 3102.56 client um I think both are good the main 3102.92 - 3106.88 difference is NEX require a server and 3107.12 - 3111.56 GSP not but both can do static side 3111.92 - 3114.04 generation or server side rendering both 3114.24 - 3116.72 tools can do the same and of course you 3116.88 - 3117.04 have your 3118.68 - 3120.8 API how the data is 3122.16 - 3124.2 handling um a fundamental difference 3124.6 - 3127 between these two is like Gatsby tell 3127.28 - 3129.72 you what to use and xas give the freedom 3130.08 - 3132.24 to choose whatever technology you want 3133.24 - 3136.36 um Gatsby uses graphql uh graphql is a 3136.48 - 3138.68 query language it's very popular I like 3138.88 - 3141.96 it a lot it's very simple to use and 3142.16 - 3144.36 then we have NEX that allows you to 3144.52 - 3145 manage your data 3146.52 - 3148 any way you want you can use whatever 3148.56 - 3150.68 things you like you know to handle your 3150.96 - 3153.04 data that's that's the main difference 3154.04 - 3156.24 uh so what should I choose now I think 3156.84 - 3159.84 you can choose any of them both are very 3160.24 - 3163.2 very good and they are both awesome so 3163.72 - 3164.12 when to use 3164.84 - 3167.76 Nexes if you have a lot of content NEX 3168.48 - 3170.6 will be your CH your tool to 3171.64 - 3174.12 choose when to use Gatsby this is my 3174.36 - 3176.2 personal preference I use Gatsby when I 3176.28 - 3178.44 building my websites on block uh the 3178.6 - 3181.04 ecosystem is perfect it works really 3181.32 - 3181.56 well with 3182.92 - 3186.04 WordPress uh do I think is there any 3186.24 - 3187.76 counts I think there is no counts 3188.24 - 3190.72 between choosing one of those is both 3190.96 - 3192.76 are great tools they pretty fit well 3193 - 3195.2 with the Headless ecosystem so it's up 3195.36 - 3197.32 to you to choose one which one you like 3197.56 - 3199.8 the best uh if you want to start 3200.6 - 3204.32 something uh this is uh a link of a lot 3204.48 - 3207 of stuff that I use and I think it's 3207.24 - 3210.24 really nice uh WP graphql is a plugin 3210.6 - 3212.72 that turns your website into a graphql 3213.72 - 3216.32 and points so you can easily navigate uh 3216.48 - 3218.72 then we have the NX official starter the 3218.88 - 3221.32 Gatsby official starter and this is from 3221.52 - 3223.64 my company it's the web dep Studios NEX 3224.32 - 3226.2 starter is open source and it's been 3226.44 - 3228.84 done with our amazing team with the lead 3229.04 - 3232.4 of Greg RAB I go and check it it's open 3233.44 - 3235.8 source and then we we have tutorials 3236.8 - 3238.76 again this uh the link from this 3239.28 - 3241.32 presentation is on the website it's on 3241.56 - 3243.56 the on the content you can see it there 3243.72 - 3243.84 you can 3244.56 - 3246.68 navigate and don't forget you can 3246.88 - 3248.36 connect your WordPress using any 3249.08 - 3250.72 framework you like with the use of the 3250.84 - 3254.52 rest 3252.04 - 3254.32 API thank you very much my name is 3254.52 - 3256.64 Alfredo Naas I hope you enjoy this talk 3256.92 - 3258.48 and help you to decide which framewor 3258.96 - 3260.44 you use for your next headless WordPress 3261.36 - 3261.76 thank you very 3264.08 - 3267.08 much 3295.93 - 3308.8 [Music] 3306 - 3308 that was fantastic thank you R sanida 3308.8 - 3310.56 and Alfredo for your contribution and 3310.68 - 3312.72 your amazing presentations we hope 3312.96 - 3314.52 everybody in the audience liked them as 3314.68 - 3316.76 much as we did uh and what a great way 3317.04 - 3320.44 to start off today yes now it's time to 3321.04 - 3323.76 introduce uh our first interview of 3324 - 3326 sponsors for the today we have the 3326.16 - 3328.44 pleasure of introducing you to Maria 3329.04 - 3331.4 moova the product manager at Google 3331.96 - 3334.48 Maria how are you hey everyone doing 3334.88 - 3336.68 great I hope the audience is doing great 3336.88 - 3339.6 as well at home hopefully next year in 3340 - 3341.64 person oh fingers crossed 3342.8 - 3345.64 hopefully wait so we're gonna jump right 3345.8 - 3347.36 into our questions for you if that's all 3347.84 - 3350.8 right um how does Google invest in 3351.04 - 3353.28 collaborating with CMS platforms and 3353.44 - 3354.32 with WordPress specifically 3356.8 - 3359.28 yeah we know that uh WordPress and other 3359.52 - 3362.12 CMS platforms are a really great way for 3362.6 - 3365 businesses or bloggers or anybody who 3365.2 - 3367.28 wants to be online to get online and to 3367.44 - 3369.6 create their presence on the web and 3369.92 - 3372.36 that has been one of the main things we 3372.52 - 3374.52 wanted to support especially over the 3374.72 - 3375.96 last year and a half when it became 3376.28 - 3378.12 really critical for many businesses to 3378.32 - 3382.36 be online and to figure out a way how to 3382.56 - 3385.32 transform their business model C M and 3385.44 - 3387.04 and WordPress in particular offer a lot 3387.16 - 3388.6 of flexibility of how you want to 3388.84 - 3390.16 present yourself online what kind of 3390.36 - 3392.2 content you want to put up there how 3392.44 - 3394.96 complex or simple you want to go and so 3395.2 - 3397.4 we want to make sure that people have 3397.68 - 3399.56 the right access to tools and they have 3399.84 - 3401.8 the right access to statistics and 3402.04 - 3403.68 information how to do better how to get 3403.92 - 3406.36 more customers or more readers and 3406.64 - 3407.84 that's why we spend a lot of time 3408 - 3409.76 working with CMS platforms as well as 3410 - 3411.56 with WordPress in particular to build 3411.88 - 3414.4 plugins or to help making changes in the 3414.52 - 3416.32 core of the platform so people have 3416.56 - 3418.28 access to th those kinds of tools to 3418.44 - 3420 improve their page experience or to know 3420.16 - 3421.2 how they're doing and and how much 3421.36 - 3422.04 traffic they're getting from 3423.28 - 3426.08 search very good Maria very good why 3426.56 - 3427.88 does Google sponsor work 3428.96 - 3431.12 camps work camps well personally 3431.6 - 3433.24 speaking it's my favorite time of the 3433.4 - 3436.08 year in Berlin was the last time that I 3436.2 - 3437.96 went and I spent three wonderful days 3438.24 - 3439.88 talking to I think hundreds of people at 3440 - 3442.24 the Google Booth um it's it's my 3442.44 - 3443.28 favorite thing about the WordPress 3443.68 - 3445.32 ecosystem as well as a Super Active and 3445.52 - 3446.96 enthusiastic Community everybody has 3447.12 - 3448.32 something to share and it's been really 3448.56 - 3450.8 great to get some feedback on what we're 3450.96 - 3452.64 working on and to get some ideas on how 3452.84 - 3454.92 to improve it um so I really look 3455.12 - 3456.4 forward that we can all meet each other 3456.6 - 3458.2 in person at the next word camps maybe 3458.48 - 3462 next year 2022 um but another really 3462.32 - 3464.28 pragmatic reason why we sponsor them is 3464.56 - 3465.64 because we know that they're not going 3465.76 - 3468.48 to happen without sponsorship so uh 3468.68 - 3470.72 that's that's the two main reasons why I 3470.8 - 3472.4 think my main personal thing is just to 3472.56 - 3474 be able to see everyone and talk to them 3474.52 - 3476.6 m we can't wait to be back in person 3477.28 - 3480.84 again um well how do you personally but 3481 - 3483 also you as a representative of Google 3483.44 - 3485.56 stay up to date on what's happening in 3486.48 - 3488.64 WordPress oh there's so many ways I mean 3488.88 - 3490.44 there's there's obviously the kind of 3491.16 - 3494.2 news websites uh like WP Tavern that we 3494.36 - 3496 all read and kind of follow what's going 3496.2 - 3498.92 on but also a bunch of people who are 3499.04 - 3500.68 working with me on my team also happen 3500.88 - 3503 to be core contributors to Wordpress so 3503.12 - 3505.2 they're plugged in into that Community 3506.16 - 3507.84 uh they participate very actively in 3507.96 - 3510.64 slack channels and so forth um and we 3510.84 - 3513.08 talk directly on Twitter and else uh to 3513.28 - 3515.08 many active members of the community so 3515.32 - 3516.72 we we keep up with what's going on and 3516.92 - 3519.52 also in discussing ideas like would it 3519.64 - 3522.12 be good to do this or that um and then 3522.36 - 3524 of course wordpress.org and and make. 3524.52 - 3526.36 wordpress.org are a really good place to 3526.76 - 3528.56 to keep up to date so we we do all of 3528.76 - 3529.32 these things all the 3531.16 - 3533.6 time if you were in front of a company 3534.04 - 3536.28 that knows nothing about what WordPress 3536.72 - 3538.68 contribution means how do you explain 3540.88 - 3542.8 it uh 30 3544.68 - 3546.56 seconds I think uh WordPress 3547.16 - 3549.76 contribution is is something that can be 3550.48 - 3552.84 H simple or as complex as you like and I 3552.96 - 3555 think it's a great way to contribute to 3555.16 - 3557.28 the open web and work with people who 3557.4 - 3559.8 are very passionate uh to build up the 3559.96 - 3562.92 open web and to create more uh kind of 3563.12 - 3565.6 value for everyone online so it's it's 3565.8 - 3567.6 very much worth it and I would recommend 3568.24 - 3570.96 to try it well thank you thank you very 3571.12 - 3573.68 much for this very quick conversation uh 3573.84 - 3574.96 but useful and thank you for sponsoring 3575.48 - 3577.32 our event as you rightly said we 3577.48 - 3579.04 couldn't do it without you so we 3579.2 - 3581.12 appreciate you being here is it safe to 3581.32 - 3583.6 assume you'll go over to your your 3583.84 - 3587.2 sponsor Lounge booth now um yeah I'm I'm 3587.4 - 3589.52 happy to uh to answer any questions if 3589.72 - 3591.64 people have excellent all right thank 3591.88 - 3594 you enjoy the event bye everyone 3595.16 - 3597.52 tell 3623.56 - 3647.03 to 3625.5 - 3647.03 [Music] 3653.52 - 3656.52 oh 3683.44 - 3709.47 oh 3685.6 - 3709.47 [Music] 3713.44 - 3716.44 w 3743.36 - 3746.36 a 3750.88 - 3789.89 [Music] 3803.28 - 3806.28 oh 3822.29 - 3832.44 [Music] 3833.28 - 3861.31 a 3836.09 - 3861.31 [Music] 3863.2 - 3866.2 oh 3893.16 - 3896.16 oh 3899.88 - 3932.71 [Music] 3953.08 - 3956.08 w 3958.11 - 3985.8 [Music] 3983 - 4004.14 oh 3985.8 - 4004.14 [Music] 4013 - 4016 w 4018.71 - 4026.53 [Music] 4042.92 - 4045.92 oh 4074.16 - 4087.84 [Music] 4083.48 - 4087.56 hey mcho hey Leslie how's it going good 4087.84 - 4089.36 I hope you enjoyed that little break 4090.36 - 4092.48 yeah just a bit just a bit I need more 4092.68 - 4094.48 time I need more time for a coffee I 4094.6 - 4096.48 didn't have a coffee in all the day and 4096.56 - 4099.68 I need it no but get that on board well 4099.8 - 4101.72 I hope everybody at home had a chance to 4102.16 - 4104.48 visit with contacts do some working pay 4104.64 - 4107.64 a visit to our sponsor booths it is now 4107.92 - 4109.28 time to talk to another one of our 4109.56 - 4111 sponsors we have the pleasure of 4111.16 - 4113.52 interviewing Tammy lisst one of our 4114.04 - 4115.84 former organizers of word Camp Europe 4116.16 - 4118.8 2020 but also an organizer this year on 4118.92 - 4120.96 the design team thanks Tammy for being 4121.16 - 4121.32 with us 4122.12 - 4126.32 today hi how are you both good to 4127.28 - 4130.04 you so Tammy can you tell us what are 4130.2 - 4131.56 the benefits of contributing to 4131.8 - 4133.36 Wordpress um as a company 4135.08 - 4136.52 yeah so contribution Falls 4137.64 - 4140.04 towards this kind of share goal that our 4140.36 - 4142.24 company extend ify has of the open web 4142.8 - 4144.4 and that impact that the open source 4144.68 - 4146.44 platform such as WordPress has on those 4147.4 - 4148.76 and our Solutions actually extend 4149.8 - 4152.72 Gutenberg so if golenberg kind of grows 4153.12 - 4155.08 the business does grow as well and the 4155.2 - 4156.8 goal of our products so actually to be a 4156.92 - 4158.32 companion to the editor and really 4158.8 - 4160.84 extend not replace so knowing what's 4161.04 - 4163.28 coming up and contributing to make that 4163.4 - 4165.2 Foundation the best it can be well that 4165.36 - 4166.04 just makes sense to 4168.68 - 4172.68 us perfect Tommy um how do you or your 4172.92 - 4174.84 company stay up to date with what's 4175.12 - 4175.88 happening in war press 4177.28 - 4181.24 yeah so there are numerous ways from 4182.24 - 4184.88 encouraging sharing links to uh 4185.32 - 4186.6 discoveries that people finded along 4186.84 - 4188.8 their Journeys to keeping in touch with 4189.64 - 4193.88 others having a a feed in our Slack for 4194.16 - 4197.32 RSS and also just sharing ecosystem and 4197.6 - 4199.04 things that are going on but there's so 4199.2 - 4201.08 much knowledge in our community just 4201.24 - 4202.6 reaching out and connecting with others 4203.08 - 4204.52 is something that we all really try and 4204.72 - 4207.6 do you can learn so much from others and 4207.76 - 4210.08 go together sharing I'd love to have 4210.2 - 4211.72 some of those discussions as well in the 4211.88 - 4214 sponsor area after this and that's kind 4214.12 - 4215.64 of the good point about where camp we 4215.76 - 4217.48 can kind of have those discussions right 4218.48 - 4220.4 yeah so what do you think is the most 4220.72 - 4222.84 rewarding thing about taking part in the 4222.96 - 4224.48 WordPress Comm for extend 4225.84 - 4228.72 ofy the community the community that we 4228.84 - 4230.8 all get to be part of it's that working 4231.04 - 4233.4 towards a Shar goal not only with those 4233.64 - 4235.8 that are in the company but and within 4236.08 - 4237.88 extendi but those that are in the 4238 - 4239.68 community we all learn we all 4239.88 - 4241.64 collaborate we all grow and we're all 4241.88 - 4243.4 focused on making that best experience 4244.16 - 4247 possible 4247.2 - 4250.68 together perfect perfect well thank you 4250.8 - 4253.68 so much dummy it's short but 4255.04 - 4258.24 intense thank you so much thank you so 4258.4 - 4260.2 much sty thank you so much Tommy for 4260.36 - 4262 your contribution to this event as admin 4262.48 - 4263.88 sponsor thank you for making this 4264.12 - 4265.92 possible and we hope all of you are 4266.12 - 4268.12 going right now to their booth and ask 4268.36 - 4270.32 for a meeting to know more about them 4271.2 - 4274.08 enjoy the event thank you so much have a 4274.2 - 4274.76 great day bye 4282.56 - 4285.56 mmy 4315.81 - 4326.73 [Music] 4328.72 - 4329.8 hi again hello 4331.44 - 4334.04 hello well let's go with our first long 4334.36 - 4337 talk in workhome buau 20 2021 this 4337.28 - 4339.48 Wednesday we are going to hear and watch 4339.76 - 4340.8 about code with Sarah 4341.88 - 4343.12 Pantry so Sarah 4344.04 - 4346.2 is coming to us with all code is Legacy 4346.76 - 4349.04 code Sarah is a developer at WordPress 4349.52 - 4352.24 VIP a part of the automatic family and 4352.44 - 4354.68 prior to that she spent 20 years as a 4354.84 - 4356.64 developer engineering team lead or 4356.84 - 4358.44 manager at several companies and web 4358.92 - 4360.36 agencies sometimes as a WordPress 4360.84 - 4362.08 specialist and other times using 4362.44 - 4364.04 alternative Frameworks and platforms 4365.04 - 4366.92 she's passionate about helping people to 4367.72 - 4369.4 develop their skills and understanding 4369.76 - 4371.6 and to be mindful of the impact that 4371.76 - 4372.36 they have in their day-to-day 4372.96 - 4373.68 development and work 4375.64 - 4377.84 environments enjoy the talk and don't 4378.04 - 4380.56 forget we will be interviewing SAR Sarah 4381.08 - 4383.4 once she finishes her presentation all 4383.56 - 4385.16 of you can write your questions in the 4385.32 - 4387.36 chat section you have and we'll choose a 4387.52 - 4389.24 couple of them to be answered by Sarah 4393 - 4396.56 enjoy hello everyone well what an 18 4396.96 - 4400.56 months we've had we had 2020 we had 2021 4401.56 - 4404.12 and during all this time people have 4404.28 - 4406.92 been going through a lot of change we've 4407.16 - 4410.52 seen the way people work change where 4410.84 - 4412.64 they work change and how they work 4413.04 - 4415.32 change people have moved on from teams 4416.16 - 4416.4 to different 4417.36 - 4420.32 companies to different countries or 4420.6 - 4422.68 unfortunately in many cases people have 4422.84 - 4425.92 moved on and are no longer with us I 4426.12 - 4428.08 myself had a bit of a health scare last 4428.6 - 4431.48 year and it's changed the way I think 4432.32 - 4434.08 about the things I do do and I want to 4434.64 - 4437.24 share that with you today and encourage 4437.72 - 4440.04 you all to consider the Legacy We Leave 4440.88 - 4444.96 Behind now we might be moving a role a 4445.2 - 4448.88 team a company but every time we move 4449.88 - 4454.6 on we leave our work our code our 4454.88 - 4457.84 applications behind us and that's where 4458 - 4460.28 the term Legacy application or Legacy 4460.76 - 4463.72 code comes from and we've all heard 4464.16 - 4467.48 these memes where this Legacy code over 4467.8 - 4469.96 here is something that works but you 4470.08 - 4472.08 don't dare touch it cuz no one really 4472.6 - 4473.28 knows how it 4474.96 - 4477.24 works and this is where you can have a 4477.52 - 4482.52 big 4479.36 - 4482.16 impact so first off I want to talk about 4482.52 - 4485.24 the potential impacts of these changes 4486.24 - 4488 where you move on and leave a legacy 4488.52 - 4491.16 behind you and then in the second half 4491.36 - 4493.12 of this talk we'll look at some of the 4493.32 - 4493.44 the possible 4494.4 - 4497 solutions that can help you deal with 4497.24 - 4503.12 these 4498.64 - 4502.56 impacts so first off I want everyone to 4503.12 - 4506.4 remember that there is no Team without 4508.08 - 4510.04 individuals there is the eye in 4510.84 - 4514.12 team and for some teams you take away a 4514.28 - 4517.32 single individual and the team starts to 4517.52 - 4520.08 struggle and has problems so everyone 4520.56 - 4521.32 has their part to 4522.2 - 4526.88 play 4524.16 - 4526.6 so when you move on from one team to 4526.88 - 4528.96 another but stay with the same company 4529.96 - 4532.16 not everything that you've contributed 4533.16 - 4535.16 is gone you're still there you can still 4536.56 - 4538.84 contribute so people can still pick your 4539.08 - 4541.12 brain they can ask you about your 4541.36 - 4543.68 knowledge of the way things work the way 4543.96 - 4544.96 the team did 4545.96 - 4549.2 things more importantly why they did 4549.48 - 4552.4 them the way they did it's very easy to 4553 - 4557.04 put put comments in code or write a 4557.24 - 4559.48 Handover document that says this is what 4559.68 - 4564.08 we 4560.52 - 4563.24 do but often it's the reason behind 4564.08 - 4566.8 things that is missing in these 4567.96 - 4572 documents 4569.48 - 4571.48 secondly there's all that code you've 4572 - 4574.52 written you've got a deep understanding 4574.8 - 4576.2 and insight and intricate knowledge 4576.64 - 4579.04 about that code that other people in the 4579.24 - 4581.32 team who you're leaving behind haven't 4582.12 - 4585.56 got and the team can then struggle to 4585.8 - 4587.8 try and build up that knowledge Gap 4588.2 - 4588.68 about the code 4590.64 - 4593.48 specifically now that is your legacy 4594.2 - 4596.2 application and every single line of 4596.4 - 4596.72 code you 4597.6 - 4601.64 write is Legacy code it's going to last 4602.32 - 4604.16 longer than the time it took you to 4605.56 - 4608.12 write at various companies we've often 4608.4 - 4611.32 turned around and done onetime fixes or 4611.72 - 4614.08 on liners that have ended up in a 4614.24 - 4616.04 library and are still in use five years 4616.32 - 4616.88 later for different 4618.72 - 4620.52 scenarios sometimes just taking that 4620.68 - 4623.04 extra 30 seconds when you're writing 4623.44 - 4625.04 them can make a big difference over the 4625.2 - 4625.88 lifetime of that 4627.52 - 4630.28 code now when you move on from one 4630.6 - 4633.32 company to another it gets worse there's 4633.48 - 4637.16 a lot more impacts that you can see from 4637.44 - 4638.8 this because you're no longer there in 4638.96 - 4640.08 the company to ask about 4640.96 - 4643.6 things we literally had case in one 4643.84 - 4645.08 company I worked at where the data 4645.4 - 4647.16 controller was hit by the proverbial bus 4648.12 - 4651.04 only in this case it was a lorry and he 4651.12 - 4652.92 was in hospital and unavailable for six 4653.64 - 4655.36 months now if that is 4656.48 - 4659.12 a if that is you and you are a critical 4659.64 - 4663.4 member of a team or a company or heaven 4663.72 - 4667.24 forbid you're a single uh person working 4667.64 - 4670.12 as a company as a freelancer that can 4670.32 - 4673.2 have a huge impact not just on you but 4673.44 - 4674.4 also further down the 4675.08 - 4677.28 line things that can be problematical 4678.12 - 4680.28 here if that one person's no longer 4680.64 - 4682.72 available can you still Grant and remove 4683.24 - 4685.24 access to systems for different 4686.48 - 4690.24 people how about Keys code signing Keys 4690.68 - 4696.28 distribution 4692 - 4694.36 Keys access keys keys for 4696.28 - 4698.92 servers can you still do all that 4699.48 - 4699.88 without one 4701.4 - 4702.4 person license 4704.12 - 4706.72 is with many licenses they're registered 4707.2 - 4707.36 to an 4708.2 - 4709.76 individual is your mission 4711.76 - 4714.84 critical software applications Services 4715.6 - 4717.84 licensed to an individual if that 4718.04 - 4718.76 individual leaves the 4719.64 - 4721.2 company is there going to be 4722.16 - 4723.92 problems these are the things you need 4724.08 - 4725.12 to think about when you're registering 4725.84 - 4726.32 accounts registering 4730.36 - 4731.92 licenses again accounts 4733.68 - 4734.52 there's an account for everything 4734.96 - 4736.52 nowadays you need an account to sign up 4736.64 - 4737.92 for an API key to sign 4738.88 - 4741.36 up if they Mission critical they 4741.48 - 4742.68 shouldn't be registered to 4743.8 - 4745.8 individuals they should be registered to 4746.12 - 4746.72 a central company 4747.96 - 4749.52 account and finally Disaster 4751.08 - 4753.32 Recovery does your disaster recovery 4754.16 - 4756 process actually work if a single 4756.32 - 4759.96 individual's 4757.68 - 4759.56 missing don't make that single 4759.96 - 4762.28 individual missing the disaster you have 4762.4 - 4762.96 to cover 4764.96 - 4767.64 from next up we have clients what's the 4767.92 - 4769.04 potential impacts on 4770.16 - 4772.28 clients now this is especially important 4772.76 - 4774.52 if you're a freelancer or individual or 4774.76 - 4777.08 very small company what happens to your 4777.28 - 4779.8 clients if you move on from the role 4780.08 - 4781.68 you're doing or if you're unavailable 4782.48 - 4783.8 for an extended period of 4784.88 - 4786.96 time do they control all their 4788.44 - 4790.72 socials we I've worked at a web agency 4791.24 - 4793.24 before where we would register all their 4793.48 - 4794.96 social media accounts on their 4795.88 - 4798.04 behalf but we would do it in their name 4798.6 - 4800.24 so that they could always gain control 4800.8 - 4802.88 and keep control if anything happened at 4803.04 - 4806.04 the company hosting can they access 4806.4 - 4806.96 everything they need 4808.88 - 4812.56 to domains can they reclaim their domain 4813.16 - 4815.8 and move it elsewhere if heaven forbid 4816.2 - 4819.16 think happens and they lose access to 4819.4 - 4822.08 your platform do they at least control 4822.52 - 4824.32 their domain name registration and 4826.08 - 4828.68 DNS depending where you work and how you 4828.84 - 4831.16 work these may or may not be issues for 4831.36 - 4832.84 you but there certainly issues I've come 4833.04 - 4833.48 across in some 4835.32 - 4838.24 companies finally looking further on 4839.24 - 4842.12 when it comes to an unfortunate thing 4842.4 - 4843.52 that so many people have experienced 4844.64 - 4848 recently with people moving on and 4849 - 4850.92 either being hospitalized for anything 4851.32 - 4853.28 up to a year or never unfortunately 4853.88 - 4855.84 coming out of Hospital there's many 4856.08 - 4856.52 things to think 4858.12 - 4860.08 about this is where we actually start 4860.84 - 4862.72 thinking about Legacy in the other 4863.32 - 4864.96 aspect of what you leave behind when 4865.08 - 4867.36 you're permanently gone but the 4867.56 - 4868.68 potential impacts here are 4869.76 - 4872.12 huge does your family know how to 4872.36 - 4875.04 contact people do they know how to let 4875.24 - 4877.68 your employer know or find out about 4877.96 - 4879.48 your employer benefits if something 4879.8 - 4880.12 happens to 4880.96 - 4883.4 you your financial advisor your 4884.84 - 4888.08 lawyer Bank savings account do they know 4888.44 - 4890.48 how to deal with all this stuff do they 4890.68 - 4891.52 even know where they all 4893.24 - 4896.24 are in many cases the answer is no I 4896.32 - 4897.2 mean I know I've 4898.48 - 4900.72 got multiple pensions I've contributed 4901.32 - 4902 to over the 4902.88 - 4905.08 years but even I'm not sure where the 4905.24 - 4906.88 first couple are nowadays because 4907.16 - 4908.16 companies have merged and 4909.8 - 4910.8 changed life 4911.64 - 4915.56 assurance 4913.32 - 4915.28 make sure they can find your policy know 4915.56 - 4916.64 where it is how they can 4918.36 - 4919.6 claim all your 4920.76 - 4922.88 subscriptions can they cancel them do 4923.04 - 4924.72 they know where they are do they want to 4924.96 - 4926.96 continue any of them there's so many 4927.2 - 4929 things nowadays that we sign up to for 4929.2 - 4932.84 the family like Amazon Netflix sky that 4932.96 - 4933.48 are all in individual 4934.84 - 4937.12 names but the family may 4938.2 - 4940.04 need can the family find them 4941.4 - 4943.84 all did digital accounts there's so many 4944.08 - 4946.88 things with DRM nowadays steam Kindle 4948 - 4950.8 consoles you can have collections worth 4951.44 - 4952.72 tens of thousands of 4953.56 - 4955.44 pounds locked behind these 4956.52 - 4957.64 systems if you're 4958.84 - 4961.6 gone is all that gone is your family no 4961.8 - 4964.4 longer got access to that make sure your 4964.6 - 4965.68 family can access these 4966.88 - 4970 things and finally probably most 4970.36 - 4973.4 important for many people is all your 4973.6 - 4977.4 photo 4974.68 - 4977.04 collection nowadays it's rare people 4977.4 - 4980.04 have photo albums at home they're all 4980.44 - 4983.28 online behind Dropbox Google photos 4983.92 - 4986.68 things like that if you unfortunately 4987.44 - 4991.96 pass 4988.28 - 4991.76 on can your family get access to their 4991.96 - 4994.44 all the photos or are they just locked 4994.92 - 4997.24 away behind accounts that they have no 4997.52 - 4999.96 idea 5000.44 - 5002.96 of finally The Wider 5003.96 - 5005.68 picture friends Associates 5007.32 - 5010.04 colleagues associations if you're 5011.04 - 5013.84 someone for a club or an association you 5014 - 5015.36 might be a Treasurer you might manage 5015.76 - 5017.36 their website or their social media 5018.44 - 5020.88 accounts if you pass on can anyone else 5021.16 - 5024.04 take that over or do they have to start 5024.4 - 5024.8 a game from 5026.04 - 5028.04 scratch I know that I managed the 5028.16 - 5031.96 socials for a couple of clubs and it was 5032.08 - 5034 at that point that I realized I needed 5034.44 - 5038.4 to allow other people access because if 5038.6 - 5039.2 I had passed 5040.08 - 5042.04 on no one else would be able to 5044.44 - 5047.72 continue 5045.96 - 5050.84 domains 5047.72 - 5050.64 websites what happens with them what 5050.84 - 5052.52 happens with your final wishes if it 5053.2 - 5055.76 happens the families know what you want 5056.04 - 5060.44 to 5057.48 - 5059.88 happen so anyway that's all the impacts 5060.44 - 5061.96 now let's look at the possible solution 5063.12 - 5064.24 and the bulk of these are going to be 5064.44 - 5067.08 focused around code because that is the 5067.28 - 5068.84 biggest problem for most 5070.56 - 5072.8 people so when you're looking at code 5073.8 - 5075.96 there's many ways that you can improve 5076.96 - 5079.12 that Legacy you leave behind the 5079.36 - 5081 application you leave that is going to 5081.12 - 5082.6 be someone else's Legacy 5085 - 5088.2 application always use best practices 5089.2 - 5091.76 now best practice changes over time 5093 - 5094.84 what started out as best practice 5 5095.16 - 5097.72 years ago is still good practice now 5098.36 - 5100.16 normally but there's things that have 5100.32 - 5101.88 been improved on things that people know 5102.24 - 5104.64 better keep up to date with what you 5104.76 - 5107.36 should be doing now and follow current 5107.76 - 5112.6 best 5109.76 - 5111.08 practices write for 5112.6 - 5114 maintainability not for writeability 5114.76 - 5117.84 it's easy to knock out a line of code or 5118.04 - 5120.6 a method or function in 5 minutes flat 5121.6 - 5123.44 but that method or function may have to 5123.56 - 5125.48 be maintained for the next 5 to 10 5126.64 - 5128.56 years and people are going to be coming 5128.92 - 5132.24 back to that time and time again to 5132.72 - 5133.64 debug it update 5134.88 - 5139.08 it make sure that the focus is on being 5139.44 - 5141.72 able to easily read the 5142.56 - 5146 code not just write it quickly but if 5146.12 - 5148.2 you can't just look at the code and 5148.68 - 5150.68 grock it in your head quickly exactly 5151.16 - 5151.56 what it's doing 5153.28 - 5155 then you need to start writing simple 5155.48 - 5156.28 code not clever 5157.4 - 5159.64 code I've seen cases where people have 5159.8 - 5162.64 written this wonderful oneliner that 5162.76 - 5163.32 does so many 5164.16 - 5166 things but it's impossible to 5166.8 - 5168.68 follow sometimes it's like the old 5169.12 - 5171.84 obfuscated Pearl contests where you try 5172 - 5172.76 and write the most complicated 5173.4 - 5175.36 functionality possible in a single line 5175.6 - 5178.16 of code make sure that's not the Legacy 5178.64 - 5179.84 you leave behind for your 5181 - 5183.36 team make make sure your code's easy to 5184.28 - 5186.48 extend now here I'm not saying you 5186.64 - 5188.96 should sit down and spend hours coding 5189.36 - 5190.28 in every possible 5191.56 - 5193.64 eventuality and start with the code 5193.92 - 5195.88 doing everything because it will never 5196.12 - 5196.36 do anything 5197.6 - 5200.32 well but don't code yourself into dead 5200.88 - 5203.64 ends make sure you have always got room 5203.92 - 5207.04 to extend the code in future modify it 5207.2 - 5209.52 or change the way it behaves a good 5209.72 - 5211.2 example of this is Hooks and filters 5212.72 - 5214.2 where it's quite easy for someone to 5214.36 - 5216.76 come and hook in and change the way 5216.96 - 5218.88 something's done to extend it in a way 5219.12 - 5220.92 that was never inv visaged in the first 5221.52 - 5223.2 place but is now quite 5224.92 - 5227.92 possible make sure it's easy to test we 5228.16 - 5232.12 all love tests sit down run a test know 5232.6 - 5235.24 with some degree of confidence that it's 5235.48 - 5237.36 still working and you haven't broke it 5238.36 - 5240.08 if you're writing code that isn't easy 5240.4 - 5243.2 to test you um making one of these 5244.24 - 5247.24 really horrible Legacy apps that people 5247.48 - 5249.64 don't like to touch because no one 5249.88 - 5252.2 really knows how it works no one even 5252.4 - 5253.2 knows if it's 5254.92 - 5255.92 working and 5256.8 - 5259.16 finally I well I say finally there's one 5259.28 - 5261.48 more after this on code employer coding 5263.28 - 5265.56 standard especially if you're part of a 5265.72 - 5268.8 team if you all use the same coding 5269.32 - 5271.76 standard it doesn't matter which one but 5271.88 - 5273.28 if you if you all use the same one it's 5273.44 - 5275.8 a lot easier for people to understand 5276.04 - 5276.32 what's going 5277.52 - 5280.88 on one place I've worked previously we 5281.12 - 5283.28 had four main developers on a project 5284.28 - 5287.76 and every single file was completely 5288.6 - 5291.48 different in indentation layout syntax 5292.16 - 5294.08 style all depending which developer 5294.6 - 5297.16 wrote it and we all got very good at 5297.64 - 5300.4 reading each other's code but life could 5300.52 - 5301.72 have been so much simpler for everyone 5302.28 - 5304.92 if we all use the same methods to begin 5306.6 - 5309.28 with and finally in your comments don't 5309.64 - 5311.28 explain what the codee's doing the code 5311.56 - 5314.16 already does that there there is that 5314.52 - 5319.2 well-known meme of the cat saying cat in 5319.36 - 5320.92 a label on it and that's what many 5321.16 - 5323.24 people do with their code comments that 5323.44 - 5325 adds no value to the code it adds 5325.36 - 5328.08 nothing that helps but do explain 5329.24 - 5332.36 why I spent hours trying trying to work 5332.8 - 5335.44 out why at one point in an application 5336 - 5338.48 in a legacy application we just had a 5338.68 - 5340.4 comment saying add one to 5342.6 - 5345.36 value and literally we could see that's 5345.56 - 5346.76 what it was doing because it was just 5346.96 - 5347.6 plus plus variable 5349.12 - 5351.76 name but the reason why was what was 5352.28 - 5354.6 missing in that instance it was because 5354.84 - 5356.48 it came from a zero indexed array 5357.4 - 5359.76 remotely instead of a one indexed array 5360.08 - 5362.88 locally so to make the IDE tally we 5363.04 - 5365.04 added one but it would have been nice 5365.4 - 5366.36 for that to just be in the 5368.4 - 5371.92 comment so we company secrets and before 5372.16 - 5374.72 you do anything here run these past your 5375 - 5377.32 company's security team or do due 5377.64 - 5380.52 diligence on them just to make sure that 5380.84 - 5382.64 what I'm saying is appropriate for your 5382.92 - 5387.92 use 5385.16 - 5387.44 case you need some sort of central 5387.92 - 5388.48 identity management 5389.8 - 5392.6 system this can use use saml 5394.32 - 5397.64 SSO but that way if one person moves on 5398.64 - 5401.28 there's still somewhere that rights can 5401.44 - 5405.04 be granted removed access given or taken 5405.4 - 5405.84 away as 5406.88 - 5408.56 necessary without it all relying 5409.32 - 5411.44 hopefully on a single individual to do 5412.92 - 5415.76 it register critical accounts and 5416.04 - 5418.68 licenses to a company address not an 5418.88 - 5424 individual 5420.84 - 5423.8 one that way if someone moves on their 5424 - 5426 email gets shut down you haven't lost 5426.52 - 5428.08 all access for that mission critical 5430.04 - 5431.48 information use a key 5432.72 - 5435.2 manager now the thing with these is they 5435.32 - 5438.52 can securely store keys that can then be 5439 - 5441.08 used by other individuals if necessary 5441.72 - 5445.28 to sign code to distribute code things 5445.56 - 5448.12 like that that is critical because if 5448.24 - 5451.24 you lose your code signing keys and 5452.16 - 5453.72 access to an email address at the same 5453.96 - 5455.32 time you may never be able to recover 5457.08 - 5458.68 it use a password 5459.92 - 5462.28 manager now password managers there's 5462.48 - 5463.76 four on the screen here but other 5464.08 - 5466.48 password managers are available nearly 5466.84 - 5469.2 all of them have the ability to share 5470.04 - 5472.12 specific accounts with other 5474.16 - 5476.36 individuals Google's got an inactive 5476.96 - 5478.2 account manager where you can turn 5478.48 - 5480.56 around and say I want this information 5481.08 - 5483.4 from my Google account shared with these 5483.96 - 5486.64 people if my account becomes inactive 5487.64 - 5489.6 but remember you have to wait 3 months 5490.08 - 5491.08 minimum and 5492.52 - 5494.88 finally there's dead man switch Services 5495.68 - 5498.2 where if you don't interact with the 5498.4 - 5500.88 service for a period of time it will 5501.12 - 5503.64 take a specified action that might be 5503.96 - 5506.44 send someone an encrypted file or do 5506.76 - 5508.52 whatever you can set up your own 5510.04 - 5512.36 system when it comes to making sure your 5512.6 - 5515.08 final wishes are known talk with 5516.2 - 5518.28 people and I just want to leave you with 5518.4 - 5520.96 the thought that test whatever systems 5521.52 - 5523.96 you put in place because you can't 5524.4 - 5525.48 always come back to fix 5527.12 - 5530 it thank you very much for joining me 5530.56 - 5531.8 I'll be in the room if there's any 5536.24 - 5538.52 questions thank you Sarah that was great 5538.84 - 5540.4 we really appreciate your thoughtful 5541.04 - 5542.6 presentation and such a meaningful 5543.16 - 5545.4 contribution to our second online word 5545.72 - 5547.4 Camp Europe thank you 5548.16 - 5549.8 L thank you thank you so 5550.64 - 5553.48 much and we have some questions for you 5553.68 - 5557.16 Sarah the first one the first one is 5557.72 - 5560.16 it's it's very simple what what was your 5560.76 - 5562.8 inspiration for making this presentation 5565.12 - 5566.12 s last 5567.2 - 5569.32 year right back at the start of last 5569.56 - 5571.92 year before we knew Co was circul in in 5572 - 5575.72 the country I lost my mother oh Sarah 5576.08 - 5577.72 I'm sorry I was in 5578.76 - 5581.12 hospital uh in the Intensive Care Unit 5581.52 - 5584.16 with her and I contracted covid from the 5584.32 - 5584.84 Intensive Care 5585.92 - 5589.88 Unit and I unfortunately was very ill 5590.64 - 5593.24 for some period of time and then ended 5593.56 - 5595.6 up with long covid symptoms this made me 5596.2 - 5599.48 very aware of how short life can be and 5599.72 - 5602.44 made me think about why I wanted to 5602.72 - 5605.24 leave a better Legacy behind me in all 5605.52 - 5606.08 aspects of my 5607.36 - 5609.52 life yeah thank you for turning that 5609.8 - 5613.2 horrible apprciate useful for us really 5613.44 - 5614.8 appreciate the information because there 5614.92 - 5617.2 are some data very very important data 5617.44 - 5620.12 in this ER presentation about things 5620.76 - 5623.52 that are happening every day not only 5623.84 - 5626 because unfortunately people pass away 5626.28 - 5628.64 but because people broke relationships 5629.64 - 5631.92 are fire or and there are a lot of 5632.12 - 5633.96 things happening and very interesting 5634.72 - 5637.72 ones thank you thank you s I'm sorry for 5637.84 - 5641.36 your 5638.6 - 5641.08 loss thank you Sarah we have some other 5641.36 - 5643.36 questions for you as well but um I want 5643.52 - 5645.12 to remind the audience that if you have 5645.28 - 5646.8 any questions for Sarah you can put them 5646.92 - 5649.48 into the hubo chat and we will ask those 5649.76 - 5651.6 but also after Sarah will be headed over 5651.8 - 5654.12 to the question and answer room so Sarah 5654.56 - 5655.92 I I really appreciated the point you 5656.08 - 5658.4 made about registering your accounts to 5658.96 - 5660.68 a company account a general account 5660.96 - 5662.92 instead of an individual really really 5663.2 - 5665.6 good advice I wonder if you have any 5665.84 - 5667.44 recommendations for storing credentials 5668.12 - 5668.4 like password 5670.12 - 5672.64 managers uh personally I use last pass 5673.48 - 5675.32 uh like I say there are other ones 5675.6 - 5677.28 available if you want on premise ones 5677.84 - 5680.52 there's there's um I think it's Bit 5680.88 - 5683.68 Defender there's cloud-based ones but 5683.88 - 5686.24 there's plenty of options available I'd 5686.48 - 5687.92 suggest everyone has a look for 5688.28 - 5690.76 themselves I don't want to say this is 5690.96 - 5693 the solution you should use but the one 5693.2 - 5697.4 I do use is last path thank you okay I 5697.52 - 5699.52 have another one because I'm working on 5699.64 - 5701.52 the hosting company and when you talk 5701.8 - 5704.8 about hosting I I it really light up up 5705.8 - 5708.88 uh an idea here thinking on hosting and 5709.2 - 5712.48 services a company has access to they 5712.6 - 5714.56 are critical normally they are critical 5715.08 - 5717.64 and maybe maybe using email accounts 5718.44 - 5721.48 accessible with the rest of the team can 5721.76 - 5724.56 work but uh maybe this not the most 5725.28 - 5730.8 secure uh way to do it no maybe yes so 5731.36 - 5733.08 what do you think would be the best way 5733.6 - 5735.76 to manage this type of credentials 5737.64 - 5740.52 s it's the sort of thing you could use a 5740.72 - 5742.6 dead man switch service for but the 5742.72 - 5745 trouble there is there is a period of 5745.24 - 5747.84 time lapse where you become 5748.88 - 5751.12 inactive been before the service will 5751.44 - 5754.36 pass the information on and in a 5754.6 - 5756.92 business that time lapse can be critical 5757.92 - 5759.68 what I'd normally suggest is in any 5759.92 - 5761.52 business don't have any one person 5761.84 - 5764.56 holding all the keys um in small 5764.96 - 5767.8 companies things like um cpanel or PL 5768.24 - 5770.2 are quite common for managing hosting 5771.2 - 5772.4 make sure that at least two different 5772.76 - 5774.76 people can access it it doesn't have to 5774.88 - 5777.08 be the entire team or the entire company 5778.08 - 5779.4 but just make sure there isn't one 5779.68 - 5782.52 single individual that moving on becomes 5782.88 - 5784.52 the disaster you need to try and recover 5786.44 - 5789.96 from thank you s thank you so we have a 5790.08 - 5791.6 couple of questions for you from the 5791.84 - 5795.68 public now uh the first one is uh at the 5795.84 - 5797.36 company I work for we've got suppliers 5798 - 5800.76 that won't accept a generic account it 5801 - 5803.16 has to be a named individual what would 5803.32 - 5805.48 you use as your argument to them that a 5805.64 - 5806.6 role-based account is 5808.44 - 5811.56 okay I can't dictate the 30 suppliers 5812.16 - 5814.28 policy if that is their policy then 5814.48 - 5816.88 unfortunately that is the case what I've 5817.04 - 5819.2 seen some people do in the past is 5820.2 - 5823.6 assign it to the secretary at company 5824.68 - 5827.24 name that normally fits most people's 5827.64 - 5832.04 requirement for a individual MH but 5832.48 - 5834 doesn't necessarily mean that 5835.28 - 5838.64 if joe. blogs' email address gets turned 5839 - 5840.52 off the company loses all access 5842.08 - 5844.72 MH how do you argue for a role-based 5846.6 - 5848.44 account it all depends who you're 5848.64 - 5850.88 arguing with I mean to be honest it's 5851.28 - 5852.76 the sort of thing that you put forward 5853.2 - 5856.28 the case that for business continuity 5857.28 - 5858.92 you need to be able to make sure that 5859.08 - 5861 more than one person has access to this 5861.48 - 5863.4 information if the people you're working 5863.84 - 5865.88 with don't have that ability to let you 5866.04 - 5869.2 do that I'll spin it around and ask how 5869.96 - 5872.2 they intend to ensure sure that you can 5872.4 - 5875.16 still access everything you need if one 5875.44 - 5876.08 person moves on 5877.68 - 5881.04 Clever yeah makes sense there is another 5881.4 - 5883.28 question from the from the public sah 5884.28 - 5888.08 and it's literally saying what about for 5888.4 - 5891.36 example credentials for premium themes 5891.84 - 5894.2 plugins or any other product purchased 5894.76 - 5897.24 by one company with their own account 5897.88 - 5900.72 and then the project is taken over by 5900.88 - 5904.96 another 5902.24 - 5904.6 company what do you suggest in that 5904.96 - 5907.4 cases sah it will depend on the license 5907.88 - 5909 agreement you've signed in the first 5909.68 - 5911.6 place sometimes when you buy a product 5912.08 - 5913.68 it is not transferable between 5915.2 - 5917.36 companies so that might be problematic 5918.36 - 5920.8 but normally if you're an agency buying 5921.24 - 5924 a service for a client you can always 5924.32 - 5926.48 buy it in the client's name then the 5926.64 - 5928.68 client can take it to them to any 5929.76 - 5932.04 company if you you're a company buying 5932.52 - 5933.36 something for the company 5934.56 - 5937.6 itself then in most cases all assets 5938.12 - 5941.88 become 5939.64 - 5941.44 transferable but it will obviously 5941.88 - 5943.68 depend on the service provider you've 5943.88 - 5945.84 bought something from if they honor that 5946.04 - 5951.48 or 5947.12 - 5951.28 not okay all right so one of the things 5951.48 - 5953.8 that I've heard you mention in your 5954.12 - 5956.8 presentation was um that one of the ways 5957 - 5960.48 to ensure your code has a legacy a good 5960.64 - 5963.2 Legacy is to use best practices and I 5963.32 - 5965.04 wonder if you have any advice for people 5965.28 - 5968.08 on how to ensure they're using the 5968.28 - 5970.28 latest best practices how do you stay up 5970.48 - 5972.2 to date to ensure that your practices 5972.68 - 5976.44 are in the best I mean I generally keep 5976.72 - 5978.24 up to date with what's happening with 5978.4 - 5981.44 the languages I use I'm basically 5981.92 - 5983.76 WordPress exclusive now so nearly 5984.04 - 5986.68 everything I do is in PHP I stay up with 5986.84 - 5988.36 what's happening in the PHP Community 5989.28 - 5990.2 what's happening with the language 5990.64 - 5993.72 itself 5991.72 - 5992.88 I stay up to date with the WordPress 5993.72 - 5995.92 Community if there's changes coming in 5996.56 - 5999.12 PHP I try and make sure that I follow 5999.56 - 6001.24 those changes so that I can make sure 6001.64 - 6004.8 I'm always using what's current so often 6005.12 - 6007.52 we see people using defecated functions 6008.32 - 6009.68 long past the date they've been 6010.4 - 6013.04 deprecated the next version of PHP comes 6013.36 - 6014.76 out and suddenly things are broken 6015.52 - 6017.4 because they've kept using deprecated 6018.04 - 6019.56 functions for years and now they've 6019.84 - 6022.24 actually been disconnected and no longer 6022.56 - 6024.8 work so always keep up to date what's 6025.12 - 6026.44 happening with your Frameworks and 6026.76 - 6029.08 languages and that way you can find out 6029.36 - 6031.76 what you should be doing that's really 6032.88 - 6035.28 helpful all right well Sarah thank you 6035.72 - 6037.6 so much for your time for your like I 6037.72 - 6038.92 said really thoughtful meaningful 6039.52 - 6040.96 presentation I think something different 6041.36 - 6043.64 than than we've seen on the stage before 6044.64 - 6046.64 so will you head over now to the 6046.84 - 6049.2 question and answer room excellent yeah 6049.36 - 6051.24 I will there I'll be over there now all 6051.44 - 6052.76 right thank you enjoy the rest of the 6052.88 - 6054.56 conference thank you thank you so much 6055.52 - 6055.92 see you around 6057.6 - 6059.56 Sarah well that was really interesting 6060.12 - 6062.2 wasn't it yeah yeah yeah I remember 6062.88 - 6065.28 watching her presentation slides in 6065.44 - 6069.32 order to look for a question and and I I 6069.44 - 6072.2 didn't realize the main subject of the 6072.72 - 6075.52 yeah of this presentation no do you 6075.68 - 6078.88 remember I asked you for that hey we 6079.04 - 6081.04 need to review this but now makes 6081.36 - 6083.56 completely sense and was really helpful 6084.36 - 6085.88 and really interesting presentation 6086.48 - 6086.64 thank you 6087.4 - 6090.88 s yes so I don't know for the rest of 6091 - 6092.88 the day we have so much going on so many 6093.36 - 6096.08 talks and presentations please if you 6096.28 - 6098.72 haven't already please do take a look at 6099.04 - 6100.88 track two there are a lot of workshops 6101.56 - 6103.12 happening on track two so we have mostly 6103.56 - 6106.12 talks here on track one but workshops on 6106.36 - 6109.16 track too there are of course all of our 6109.4 - 6111.44 sponsors waiting to talk to you in the 6111.64 - 6113.84 lounge and they have their booths ready 6114.12 - 6116.76 for you but maybe M you want to talk 6116.96 - 6118.32 about meetings with other 6119.48 - 6122.36 attendees yes uh please uh pay attention 6122.88 - 6125 because you have the possibility to to 6125.2 - 6128.08 meet anyone in this conference in this 6128.28 - 6131 virtual conference in bamp Europe and so 6131.24 - 6133.56 you have the onetoone meetings section 6134.44 - 6137.84 and you can ping anyone in this event H 6138.04 - 6139.68 if you found something someone 6140.08 - 6141.8 interesting for your business or you 6142 - 6145 want to say hi to an old friend this is 6145.16 - 6146.96 your moment this is the way you can do 6147.12 - 6150.2 it at the meeting section in other way 6150.72 - 6154.12 if you for example prefer only watching 6154.76 - 6155.8 content only to watch 6156.92 - 6159.52 content you only have to go to your 6159.8 - 6163.24 profile section and going into the the 6163.48 - 6166.36 privacy policy and you will have a a 6166.52 - 6168.36 little option to say hey I'm not 6168.56 - 6171.32 available for anyone I only want I only 6171.76 - 6175 are here for uh for watching content and 6175.2 - 6177.84 having a good time alone so no problem 6178.52 - 6180.08 whatever you decide it will be perfect 6180.68 - 6185.16 thank 6182.68 - 6184.88 you excellent well we'll be right back 6185.16 - 6186 with another sponsor 6199.68 - 6202.68 interview 6294.88 - 6305.1 [Music] 6305.2 - 6305.84 hello again 6308 - 6311.08 hi well now it's time to interview one 6311.32 - 6313.48 of our admin sponsors we have the 6313.72 - 6315.32 pleasure to interview Ugo Prince 6316.28 - 6317.88 strategic partner manager at Molly 6318.76 - 6320 payments hi youo 6321.92 - 6325.44 hi nice to meet you guys hello you too 6325.68 - 6326 nice to meet 6327 - 6328.76 you welcome welcome to work 6330.08 - 6332.36 computer uh one second I'm GNA put my 6332.56 - 6336 audio to my uh to my headset otherwise 6337 - 6340.68 perfect check it check it sorry for the 6340.88 - 6344 confusion don't worry no problem well H 6344.68 - 6346.56 we'll go straight to the questions do 6346.72 - 6349.04 you sponsor more war camps or is this 6349.24 - 6350.24 the first one I'm 6351.24 - 6353.4 why did you decide to sponsor War Camp 6354.36 - 6357.04 Europe um from Molly I think we 6357.24 - 6359.16 sponsored a couple of Dutch word camps 6359.52 - 6363.04 as well um and we have quite quite a 6363.28 - 6365.8 broad Community within uh W camp and 6365.96 - 6368.4 woomer so I think it was a logical 6368.84 - 6370.68 decision for us looking at the amount of 6370.8 - 6372.12 merchants that we have the amount of 6372.24 - 6374.04 people that are using our plugins to 6374.24 - 6376.6 support an event like this also to keep 6376.76 - 6378.52 the community growing and to have 6378.72 - 6380.64 interaction with people that work on 6380.92 - 6384.32 woomer every day and word WordPress okay 6385.32 - 6387.08 and what do you think is the the future 6387.52 - 6388.84 of Molly and WordPress together 6389.16 - 6390.56 especially as it pertains to Molly's 6391.04 - 6392.32 contribution to the WordPress 6393.96 - 6397.36 Community I think we can um add a lot of 6398.36 - 6401.84 um interesting features to Wordpress and 6402.64 - 6404.92 I think in the future we'll be able to 6405.12 - 6407.44 offer more and more of our services I 6407.56 - 6410.44 think I think Molly and and uh WordPress 6411 - 6413.4 and wmer we we fit we fit like a glove 6413.8 - 6415.48 as well because we want to take features 6416.04 - 6417.8 from Enterprise payment service 6418.08 - 6421.16 providers to small merchants and that 6421.32 - 6423.32 really suits the type of merchant that 6423.48 - 6425.72 typically is found on WordPress or 6426.28 - 6429.36 woomer okay okay what's what is the best 6429.68 - 6431.88 addition to your plugin in the past 6433.28 - 6435.52 year um I think one of the coolest 6435.92 - 6437.68 things that we did is adding Apple pay 6438.48 - 6441.28 uh to our plugin so uh and then Apple 6441.56 - 6444.24 pay in browser and that was before 6445.12 - 6446.88 really a feature where uh a merchant 6447.2 - 6449.48 needed to have a a developer uh set up 6449.84 - 6452.96 his Apple pay verification files and he 6453.04 - 6454.52 would have issues and stuff like that 6454.68 - 6456.56 and we we turn it into like switching a 6456.68 - 6459.36 button on and off um and making sure 6459.64 - 6461.32 that we enable Apple pay at the merchant 6461.68 - 6464.24 level at Apple as well so yeah it I 6464.36 - 6465.4 think that's one of the cooler things 6465.6 - 6466.28 that we did this 6467.08 - 6469.28 year and what do you think is is going 6469.4 - 6471.12 to happen when we get to have inperson 6471.84 - 6474.56 events again but how how do you think 6474.68 - 6476.64 it's going to be I think it's going to 6476.76 - 6479 be a lot of fun uh because I always 6479.24 - 6481.84 remember uh word camps being uh very 6482.12 - 6484.28 interesting but also uh very fun with 6484.48 - 6486.6 beers and drinks and meeting a lot of 6486.76 - 6490.4 people and um actually I also we made 6490.64 - 6493.72 our own PHP elephant uh and planning was 6493.96 - 6495.6 that we could have also given out these 6495.8 - 6497.76 PHP elephants on an event but yeah now 6497.92 - 6500.28 I'm sitting on a stock of these PHP El 6501.04 - 6502.52 well they should come in handy for next 6502.76 - 6504.96 year then right I wanted to go to 6505.28 - 6507.16 there's always a place at a at an event 6507.48 - 6508.84 where you can swap these elephants with 6509 - 6510.52 other people and I wanted to have my own 6510.8 - 6512.16 so I could just come in with a back full 6512.48 - 6514.16 Sil like hey you want to swap this 6515.84 - 6518.2 one well thank you Hugo and thank you 6518.36 - 6520.4 for your contribution to our interview 6520.92 - 6522.64 just now but also for Molly payment's 6523.08 - 6525.48 contribution to word Camp Europe um 6525.8 - 6527.08 thank you for making the event possible 6527.44 - 6528.96 we couldn't do it without our sponsors 6529.52 - 6532.6 so we we appreciate you so uh is it safe 6532.8 - 6534.84 to assume that you will head over to the 6535 - 6536.96 lounge so that people can come and ask 6537.12 - 6539.24 you questions about Molly payments I 6539.32 - 6542.12 will I will um I'll be in our stand as 6542.24 - 6545.24 well so very good all right well I know 6545.44 - 6547.04 that you have materials prepared for 6547.24 - 6548.72 people so head on over there and thank 6548.88 - 6550.92 you for your time thank you very much 6551.6 - 6552.96 have a nice day bye 6559.12 - 6562.12 bye 6572.41 - 6582.57 [Music] 6583.04 - 6586.44 hi Leslie well sponsors we are so 6586.84 - 6589.36 grateful to our sponsors for making work 6589.6 - 6593.44 comp possible year after year and uh 6593.76 - 6595.36 another one interview another interview 6595.96 - 6597.68 now we have the pleasure of interviewing 6598.68 - 6601.84 David vcal WP growth of WP 6604.08 - 6607.84 engine hi Jose good to meet you well 6608.36 - 6611.08 David hi David nice to meet you welcome 6611.68 - 6612.48 welcome to welcome Europe 6613.96 - 6616.52 David let's go let's go straight to the 6616.72 - 6618.24 questions why is contributing to 6618.48 - 6619.8 Wordpress important to 6621 - 6623.4 WP well first of all I'd like to say you 6623.52 - 6625.04 know certainly WP engine's proud to 6625.24 - 6626.8 contribute to word press along with 6627 - 6629.6 people from all over the world um I 6629.68 - 6631.6 think like the economic impact of 6631.76 - 6633.76 Wordpress is is immense I mean we 6634.04 - 6635.52 recently released a WordPress economy 6636.08 - 6638.32 study you know showing that the economy 6638.68 - 6640.92 is expected to grow up to 520 billion 6641.4 - 6642.68 euros by the end of 6643.76 - 6646.4 2021 but my view and our view as a 6646.56 - 6647.96 company is that the impact that 6648.08 - 6650.76 WordPress has on people is is really the 6650.96 - 6651.68 true value of 6652.6 - 6654.56 Wordpress um contributing to Wordpress 6655 - 6657.64 is Central to uh us as people at WP 6658.08 - 6659.36 engine but it's also Central to our 6659.64 - 6661.12 operating system for how we run our 6661.32 - 6662.96 business what we call our core values 6663.96 - 6665.48 and committed to give back is one of 6665.6 - 6667.08 those core values and in addition to 6667.28 - 6669.04 covering areas around how we contribute 6669.44 - 6671.24 to our local communities it also 6672 - 6674.72 emphasizes um our desire to advance the 6674.84 - 6676.04 WordPress Community through our original 6676.48 - 6678.36 contributions sharing our expertise and 6678.64 - 6679.04 active participation 6680.92 - 6681.96 um I think the other reason it's 6682.16 - 6684.12 important to us as a company is that 6684.32 - 6685.4 many of us were in the WordPress 6685.88 - 6687.4 Community before we started working here 6687.52 - 6688.36 and I know for a lot of organizations 6689.08 - 6691.48 that's true and then for many of us we 6691.68 - 6693.12 came to the WordPress Community working 6693.56 - 6694.88 here and I also know for a lot of 6695 - 6695.92 individuals and a lot of other 6696.2 - 6698.6 organizations that's true but for us 6698.8 - 6700.16 it's personal in that way we use 6700.44 - 6701.76 WordPress our friends use it our 6701.92 - 6703.84 families often use it and I think the 6704 - 6705.84 other side is really the fact that we 6706 - 6708.64 believe in the power of Open Source we 6708.76 - 6709.96 certainly believe in the power of open 6710.24 - 6711.96 source to provide freedom to innovate 6712.44 - 6714.92 and flexibility to integrate but I think 6715.12 - 6716.8 even more importantly in the context of 6717.28 - 6719.36 Wordpress um to provide a digital voice 6719.64 - 6722.2 for anyone and so I think the technology 6722.8 - 6725.12 part is fun and cool um but the impact 6725.48 - 6727.2 that WordPress has on people I think 6727.44 - 6729.48 that's why we think it's important and 6729.64 - 6731 that's why contributing to Wordpress is 6731.12 - 6734.6 important to WP engine okay what sort of 6734.92 - 6737.4 resources does wp engine offer to your 6737.64 - 6739.48 employees who want to contribute to 6741.04 - 6742.76 WordPress yeah that that's an 6742.88 - 6744.08 interesting question I know a lot of 6744.2 - 6745.92 orgs ask that same question of how they 6746.08 - 6749 Empower their employees um certainly in 6749.16 - 6750.88 addition to providing folks space in 6751.08 - 6753.24 their workday for contributions um we 6753.4 - 6754.96 provide a variety of support mechanisms 6755.56 - 6758.12 for employees seeking to contribute one 6758.48 - 6760.92 interesting and recent example um which 6761.08 - 6762.88 includes WP engine employees but also 6763.2 - 6765.64 those outside of WP engine is our 6765.92 - 6767.52 speakup public speaking enablement 6768.12 - 6770.36 workshop being led by tar McCormick of 6770.48 - 6772.64 WP engine and Jill binder and Ali nimons 6773.2 - 6775.16 of diverse and Tech with the objective 6775.56 - 6777.16 of helping to increase the number of 6777.44 - 6778.68 black people speaking at WordPress 6779.4 - 6781.92 events um WP engine had decided to 6782.2 - 6783.96 sponsor this initiative after a call to 6784.2 - 6786.04 action from WordPress co-creator Mike 6786.24 - 6788.44 little Genesis Community leaders Anita 6788.84 - 6791.16 Carter and Sandy Jackson around action 6791.64 - 6793.32 to get better representation from the 6793.44 - 6795.4 black community at WordPress speaking 6795.76 - 6798.44 roles and in leadership positions and so 6798.84 - 6800.2 while we love to look for Unique 6800.6 - 6802.28 opportunities like that really want to 6802.48 - 6804.4 thank Tara Jill and Ally for their 6804.56 - 6807 leadership there um most people's 6807.36 - 6809.04 Journey at WP engine actually starts 6809.52 - 6811.68 with our companywide updates on what's 6811.88 - 6813.8 happening in WordPress core and the 6814 - 6815.92 community so not everyone's able to keep 6816.08 - 6817.96 up to dat and for those that become 6818.4 - 6820.04 interested then in contributing like 6820.2 - 6822.96 let's say a core or code contributor uh 6823.08 - 6824.48 we provide them certainly the resources 6825.12 - 6826.44 available on.org for new contributors 6827.08 - 6828.88 which of course are wonderful but we 6829.16 - 6830.76 also provide provide advice around what 6830.96 - 6833.2 component they might pick um we provide 6833.52 - 6834.52 them encouragement to start 6834.84 - 6836.44 participating in things like core slack 6836.8 - 6838.2 meetings and track and all the other 6838.4 - 6840.2 kind of aspects of contributing code to 6840.64 - 6842.6 core and then I think this is the most 6842.84 - 6844.48 important piece and certainly would 6844.8 - 6846.56 recommend others consider this as well 6847.48 - 6848.68 is we connect to these contributors 6849.56 - 6851.56 across the company those that have been 6851.72 - 6853.08 contributing for a while or those that 6853.2 - 6855.48 are new via mentoring relationships in 6855.76 - 6857.64 in an internal WP engine core 6857.88 - 6859.84 contributor slack Channel and 6860.16 - 6861.88 fundamentally as I think about how to 6862.08 - 6864.28 enable folks in contribution I think 6864.56 - 6865.96 contributing to Wordpress is a team 6866.24 - 6868.08 sport it's a global sport that in some 6868.28 - 6870.8 way we all participate in and so I think 6871.12 - 6872.56 providing those vehicles for 6872.8 - 6874.4 collaboration and ideation is critical 6875.12 - 6876.24 as you think about how you might support 6876.68 - 6878.36 your own staff in contributing to 6880.12 - 6882.84 Wordpress thank thank you David um what 6883 - 6883.44 are your favorite 6884.68 - 6886.44 recommendations for people who aren 6886.92 - 6889.04 developers who want to contribute to 6889.2 - 6892.36 Wordpress 6890.44 - 6892.28 I think this is a wonderful question I 6892.36 - 6894.56 see this come up um quite a bit actually 6895.08 - 6896.32 and I think you know people have a 6896.4 - 6898.24 little bit of an imposture imposter Sy 6898.68 - 6901 syndrome like am I really you know smart 6901.36 - 6903.56 enough or or whatever Advanced enough to 6903.76 - 6906.12 to to contribute and I think it's 6906.4 - 6907.92 important to keep an open mind right 6908.08 - 6910.04 about what contributing might mean so 6910.36 - 6911.6 first of all my go-to recommendations 6912.36 - 6914.48 for um folks that are non-technical are 6914.68 - 6916.16 things like translations if you're a 6916.44 - 6918.36 polyglot um translations are always 6918.64 - 6920.2 needed in WordPress for answering 6920.72 - 6922.68 support tickets in theor forums I 6922.84 - 6924.16 guarantee you there's someone out there 6924.36 - 6926.6 in those forums who knows less about 6926.84 - 6928.4 WordPress than you do just go into the 6928.48 - 6930.2 forums and help somebody out out help 6930.44 - 6932.8 them advance in their journey and then I 6932.88 - 6934.16 think one that's near and dear to my 6934.36 - 6936.2 heart is contributing at a word camp or 6936.32 - 6938.12 a WordPress Meetup whether that's via 6938.4 - 6940.64 sponsorship or actually volunteering my 6940.84 - 6942.36 first contribution at a WordPress event 6942.68 - 6944.6 was in a happiness bar and I certainly 6944.96 - 6946.32 wasn't the smartest person at the bar 6946.92 - 6948 and others that were at the happiness 6948.4 - 6950.6 bar uh aided folks that I didn't know 6950.76 - 6952.2 how to help and that was fine and that 6952.32 - 6954.4 was one way I was able to contribute and 6954.52 - 6956.2 then my favorite example of a 6956.36 - 6958.44 non-technical person contributing in a 6958.68 - 6961.28 technical way is actually a person named 6961.6 - 6964.84 hongna win of WP engine who helps with a 6964.96 - 6966.6 media component by participating in the 6966.72 - 6968.4 media meetings and posting meeting notes 6968.84 - 6971.28 on wordpress.org so she's not a 6971.6 - 6973.28 developer um but she's able to 6973.56 - 6975.36 participate and contribute in these 6975.64 - 6977.48 technical activities that do contribute 6978.04 - 6979.64 ultimately to making WordPress core 6980 - 6982.24 better so I think like be open-minded 6983.12 - 6986.16 about what you might be able to do uh 6986.64 - 6988.04 push yourself a little bit and ask for 6988.4 - 6992.96 help um and to um you know I think I 6993.16 - 6994.28 kind of mentioned Mike little earlier 6994.68 - 6997 I'm gonna kind of bring him up again uh 6997.4 - 6998.8 he had kind of mentioned to me that back 6998.92 - 7000.64 in 2003 when he joined Matt to help 7000.84 - 7002.8 create WordPress it was really him 7003.04 - 7005.96 responding in a blog post um to about 7006.36 - 7008 you know kind of creating WordPress and 7008.32 - 7009.64 I we kind of joked about the Grand 7009.88 - 7011.64 Adventure he went on by raising his hand 7012.24 - 7013.6 and I think that's the challenge I would 7013.76 - 7015.52 put out to others that are maybe feeling 7015.84 - 7017.04 a little intimidated about contributing 7017.8 - 7020.56 is um you know take that step raise your 7020.8 - 7022.68 hand push yourself a little bit and you 7022.8 - 7024.92 might be um you might be overjoyed with 7025.08 - 7028.24 what you find that great advice well now 7028.72 - 7030.24 uh I have to say my favorite question 7030.56 - 7032.36 that we've been asking sponsors it's a 7032.48 - 7033.88 little little bit of um kind of your 7034.2 - 7036.16 opinion what do you think is going to 7036.36 - 7037.92 happen when we finally get to have 7038.24 - 7040.28 another word camp in person what's your 7040.44 - 7042.24 prediction I think there will be many 7042.6 - 7044.92 awwards should we elbow bump or fist 7045.2 - 7047.08 bump or hug and I've had the little 7047.36 - 7049.6 experience with this recently and I I 7049.76 - 7052.28 suspect we'll have a lot of that yeah I 7052.4 - 7054.76 think you're probably right yeah well 7055.24 - 7056.88 thank you so much DAV thank you so much 7057.2 - 7059.96 uh we really hope that woman arrives the 7060.12 - 7061.08 soon as possible that's 7062.08 - 7063.32 true thank you so 7064.16 - 7066.16 much thank you thank you for your 7066.32 - 7067.96 contribution to this event a super ading 7068.28 - 7070.2 a sponsor thank you for making this 7070.48 - 7071.92 possible and we hope all of you are 7072.08 - 7074.24 going right now to their booth and ask 7074.48 - 7076.4 for a meeting to know more about them 7077.24 - 7079.6 enjoy the event thank you lady thank 7080.32 - 7082.8 you so it's now time for another 7083.16 - 7085.04 10-minute break we hope that you will 7085.36 - 7086.8 take this time to step away from your 7086.96 - 7089.88 screen get a glass of water but also 7090.56 - 7092.8 come back and visit our sponsor booths 7093.56 - 7096.08 go network with other attendees at the 7096.24 - 7098.16 event and otherwise we'll see you in 7098.36 - 7098.8 about 10 minutes 7100.16 - 7100.36 see you 7114.13 - 7120.43 [Music] 7128.32 - 7131.32 around 7158.24 - 7161.24 w 7176.58 - 7190.3 [Music] 7188.24 - 7208.26 oh 7190.3 - 7208.26 [Music] 7218.16 - 7221.16 oh 7248.12 - 7251.12 oh 7254.17 - 7279.67 [Music] 7308.04 - 7311.04 w 7319.41 - 7334.28 [Music] 7337.96 - 7340.96 a 7367.96 - 7370.96 w 7390.85 - 7397.1 [Music] 7397.88 - 7422.53 oh 7399.87 - 7422.53 [Music] 7427.88 - 7430.88 w 7457.8 - 7460.8 oh 7462.17 - 7493.85 [Music] 7517.68 - 7520.68 w 7533.59 - 7550.68 [Music] 7547.68 - 7550.68 oh 7577.6 - 7580.6 w 7587.16 - 7593.59 [Music] 7607.6 - 7610.6 oh 7615.39 - 7625.59 [Music] 7625.84 - 7629.84 hi 7627 - 7628.16 everyone Hi Leslie 7629.84 - 7632.08 hey hi everyone do you have the chance 7632.36 - 7634.84 to meet someone and make contacts after 7635.32 - 7637.24 this little break uh we are coming back 7637.4 - 7639.2 to our main content here Al workan buau 7640.4 - 7643.36 2021 and on this occasion we have the 7643.56 - 7646 pleasure of having with us Robert jakobi 7647 - 7651.16 talking about invisible CMS so Robert 7651.68 - 7654.32 has 20 years of experience as an open 7654.72 - 7657.08 source executive uh was the presid or is 7657.24 - 7658.72 the president of jumla an entrepreneur 7659.6 - 7662.56 EV evangelist and works with small to 7662.68 - 7664.48 Fortune 500 companies as a global 7664.92 - 7667.16 strategist and solution ambassador to 7667.4 - 7669.76 increase revenue and Market awareness he 7670 - 7671.84 ran 3.5% of the 7672.48 - 7673.92 internet he's an international 7674.56 - 7676 well-known and respected speaker and 7676.16 - 7678.04 contributor to open source hosting and 7678.28 - 7680.64 infrastructure communities he served in 7680.8 - 7683.8 multiple roles of jumla maker member of 7683.96 - 7686.16 make word press hosting contributor to 7686.36 - 7688.8 Ian at large and former chair for the 7688.92 - 7690.68 technical Outreach working group of the 7690.84 - 7693.32 internet infrastructure Coalition Robert 7693.72 - 7696.04 loves his two and four-legged friends as 7696.16 - 7697.64 well as preparing all sorts of meals 7699.04 - 7699.56 Robert join 7701.24 - 7704.88 us thank you so much Leslie hey Jose hi 7705.64 - 7707.44 welcome I gotta remember where the 7707.64 - 7709.12 camera and all the people are in the 7709.32 - 7711.2 actual session we're here we're here 7711.4 - 7716.2 we're 7712.84 - 7715.6 here oh boy did I do I miss the iners 7716.2 - 7718.4 boy my last war camp Europe 2019 was 7718.68 - 7722.56 amazing agreed than thank we agreed we 7722.72 - 7724.92 love 7725.28 - 7728.04 it okay so let's go with the present 7728.52 - 7730.84 ation and see you later thanks 7733.68 - 7735.6 folks boy it's so much more fun when 7735.72 - 7736.72 there are actually people in the 7736.88 - 7738.88 audience I you know as I was teasing you 7738.92 - 7740.16 know I really do miss that kind of 7740.32 - 7742.16 opportunity to interact with all of you 7743.12 - 7746.08 um next year cross fingers uh today 7746.68 - 7750.16 invisible CMS uh it is not a new CMS it 7750.24 - 7752.8 is a CMS you already have in your hands 7753.72 - 7756.2 and I'm looking forward to going through 7757.32 - 7759.6 uh the opportunities available to 7759.76 - 7761.76 everyone with their brand new invisible 7762.52 - 7766.72 CMS uh lovely introduction by um lesan 7767.56 - 7770.64 Jose and I'll just run through it again 7770.96 - 7772.72 you can always find my me on my Twitter 7773 - 7773.16 at Robert 7773.96 - 7776.64 jacobe uh as mentioned I have 20 years 7777.08 - 7779.44 agency experience ran an agency uh been 7779.64 - 7780.48 involved with number of 7782.08 - 7784.68 startups uh very much focused on you 7784.8 - 7787.88 know what open source can do you going 7788.12 - 7790.08 all all the way back you know to sort of 7790.24 - 7792.28 Open Source Java and then certainly a 7792.48 - 7794.76 number of years spent uh with jumla and 7794.92 - 7798.12 now of course uh the WordPress Universe 7798.76 - 7800.08 which is an amazingly huge 7801.2 - 7803.32 Universe I'm currently director of 7803.44 - 7804.96 Wordpress at cloudways that means 7805.8 - 7807.08 everything from Community engagement 7807.88 - 7809.24 getting to do what I love doing talking 7809.48 - 7810.32 with people meeting people 7811.88 - 7815.04 Partnerships marketing you know you you 7815.2 - 7816.56 name it if there's a WordPress problem 7816.88 - 7818 there please uh let me know 7819.28 - 7825.2 but 7820.76 - 7824.88 gently thank you so uh quick little run 7825.2 - 7826.64 through of kind of the topics I want to 7826.8 - 7831.28 cover 7827.96 - 7830.96 today we have the agency problem yes 7831.28 - 7833.52 agencies do have a significant 7835 - 7837.56 problem the partnership solution yay we 7837.68 - 7839.68 do have answers to the agency problem 7840.68 - 7842.32 and you know slowly covering some of the 7843.16 - 7846.48 uh upsides of you know leveraging this 7846.68 - 7847.68 magical invisible CMS 7849.68 - 7851.56 let's start with of course the agency 7854.68 - 7857.36 problem so many people just want to 7857.56 - 7859.44 start an agency it's great you can do it 7859.64 - 7861.2 as a solopreneur you can do it as a you 7861.32 - 7863.6 know a side gig of course you can 7863.88 - 7865.12 obviously do it as a you know your 7865.4 - 7869.52 full-time 7866.92 - 7869.32 career and you know there's so many 7869.52 - 7870.56 opportunities and you know certainly 7870.84 - 7872.84 we've seen over the last you know year 7873 - 7875.84 and a half two years that being an 7876.08 - 7878.36 agency that does WordPress is awesome 7879.2 - 7882.4 the market is huge actually uh just the 7882.52 - 7885.48 other day WP engine released a breakdown 7886.48 - 7890.8 of the WordPress economy and their rough 7891.2 - 7892.96 numbers I don't know how rough they 7893.08 - 7894.32 spent a lot of time obviously if you 7894.4 - 7897.28 read the report that the WordPress 7897.92 - 7902.72 Market in 2020 was 500 and plus or minus 7903.28 - 7907.4 $70 7904.88 - 7906.88 billion so there's tons of opportunities 7907.4 - 7908.64 for people to be involved in the project 7909.12 - 7911.24 and they estimate that 2021 will even 7911.44 - 7914.04 have a larger uh sort of overall Market 7914.52 - 7915.8 space of like 630 7918.04 - 7919.64 billion the the facts are amazing 7920.4 - 7924.52 there's all this stuff about you know if 7924.6 - 7926.68 you compare WordPress to other countries 7927.08 - 7929.4 in the world or other name brands like 7929.6 - 7931.12 Tesla and apple that 7932.04 - 7934.04 WordPress if you know you look at it as 7934.2 - 7936.6 its own thing uh is right there at the 7936.8 - 7939.96 top so you know that kind of Market plus 7940.4 - 7943.12 all the opportunities uh make it sort of 7943.56 - 7945 you know a no-brainer and I'll use that 7945.16 - 7947.48 phrase a couple of times uh to be in the 7947.64 - 7952.28 WordPress 7949.36 - 7952.16 ecosystem and because it's all you could 7952.28 - 7953.6 to be unicorns and magic I mean we're 7953.72 - 7955.24 going to make tons of money we're 7955.48 - 7956.68 WordPress WordPress WordPress 7959.12 - 7961.32 fantastic some more of the numbers of 7961.48 - 7963.24 course we're here it's Work Camp Europe 7963.96 - 7964.64 we're going to be talking about 7964.76 - 7967.04 WordPress and WordPress is huge 7969.04 - 7970.72 everyone uses WordPress and we have some 7971 - 7972.72 extra fun numbers on top of you know I 7972.84 - 7974.88 just the numbers I just talked about for 7975.12 - 7980.56 the entire economy so uh W3 Tex these 7980.72 - 7982.36 numbers are actually pretty gosh darn 7982.56 - 7983.8 current I think as just of a couple 7984.08 - 7987.64 weeks ago so WordPress runs 41% almost 7988 - 7990.6 42% of all sites on the internet amazing 7991.44 - 7993.32 isn't it great to be in WordPress doing 7994.4 - 7996.8 WordPress you know WordPress sites as a 7996.96 - 8002.48 whole 7998.92 - 8002.2 163 million unique visitors a month so 8002.48 - 8004.12 again you know you can kind of stick 8004.36 - 8005.64 your you know toe in the water anywhere 8006.24 - 8008.6 and just say I do WordPress and you know 8008.72 - 8009.36 I'm GNA really 8010.68 - 8012.8 succeed and actually this is a fun stat 8013.12 - 8015.2 from payscale.com is that average 8015.52 - 8017.52 developer income not too bad I mean 8017.64 - 8019.32 you're making you know again average 8020.08 - 8025.08 $53,000 a year uh us so there's a lot of 8025.36 - 8028.4 reasons to say I do word press 8029.4 - 8031.48 no-brainer told you no-brainer is coming 8031.72 - 8034.4 back 8032.48 - 8033.72 again why is it 8034.4 - 8036.32 no-brainer obviously everyone uses 8037.2 - 8038.48 WordPress tons of 8039.16 - 8040.16 visitors good 8041.24 - 8043.4 income but is it really just about 8043.92 - 8044.36 saying you do 8045.48 - 8048.04 WordPress you know the point of 8048.24 - 8052.08 invisible CMS is to fix the language and 8052.32 - 8054.56 the motivations and the way we practice 8055.44 - 8056.08 our business and 8056.88 - 8059.56 craft if we're just saying we're doing 8059.88 - 8062.56 WordPress that means everyone else is 8062.72 - 8065.76 doing WordPress so what makes you 8066.12 - 8067.68 special why are you unique what's your 8068.12 - 8070.36 you know what we say in the in the biz 8070.72 - 8073.36 your unique value proposition what are 8073.44 - 8074.88 you offering that's above and beyond 8076.12 - 8078.04 WordPress and and that's really the Crux 8078.64 - 8080.48 of creating your own invisible CMS 8081.48 - 8084.64 because technology changes uh you 8085.32 - 8087.2 know ecosystems change communities 8087.56 - 8091.84 change 8088.72 - 8091.68 and you want to make sure that what 8091.84 - 8093.96 you're providing is above and beyond one 8094.36 - 8098.2 simple 8095.28 - 8098.04 toolkit yes you should have that all you 8098.2 - 8100.08 know in your back pocket being able to 8100.24 - 8101.96 take advantage of the ecosystem of 8102.16 - 8102.84 Wordpress of 8103.56 - 8105.92 plugins but everyone else is doing the 8106.04 - 8107.88 same thing so we really need to look at 8108.48 - 8111.08 what makes each one of us uh uniquely 8111.92 - 8113.32 valuable in this whole 8115.04 - 8116.68 economy and then we can get some 8116.84 - 8119.8 unicorns 8120.28 - 8120.88 it's a lot slower 8124.08 - 8126.64 virtually so one of the exercises I like 8126.76 - 8129.24 to do is you know let's let's ask 8129.52 - 8130.2 ourselves some questions 8131.24 - 8133.12 about why we're doing what we're doing 8133.68 - 8134.8 you know what gets us up in the morning 8135.4 - 8136.48 you know certainly some people are going 8136.6 - 8138.64 to be like the code gets me going okay 8139.64 - 8142.44 great but you know given that WordPress 8143.4 - 8147.2 is going more no code slowly but surely 8148.2 - 8149.8 what are you really doing that's very 8150.04 - 8152.2 special and unique so you have to ask 8152.48 - 8154.36 these uh questions of yourself you know 8154.84 - 8158.12 what do you do well and there are a lot 8158.28 - 8159.68 of things that you know 8160.76 - 8163.8 besides you know managing the WordPress 8164.48 - 8165.92 you know admin and being able to install 8166.6 - 8168.76 plugins uh you know make the 8170.04 - 8171.48 configurations so on so 8172.28 - 8174.84 forth you got to be doing something well 8175.2 - 8176.76 that's above and beyond that 8179.28 - 8180.6 a very important question is what do you 8180.76 - 8183.24 hate doing you know you're going to want 8183.36 - 8185 to put up you know two columns of what 8185.12 - 8187 do I do well what do I hate doing and 8187.12 - 8188.36 there are many things that can fall into 8188.6 - 8191.96 both categories when I look at you know 8192.4 - 8193.4 what do I like doing well I like 8193.6 - 8195.16 communicating with people I like 8195.36 - 8197.12 creating content I like uh being 8197.32 - 8198.52 involved in community I like creating 8199.92 - 8202.2 Partnerships business sales all that 8202.36 - 8208.08 sort 8203.28 - 8207.16 of uh stuff for lack of a better word I 8208.08 - 8209.08 hate things 8210.16 - 8212.96 like having to debug code used to do 8213.08 - 8215.68 that all the time used used to be fun I 8215.76 - 8216.72 don't know if anyone thinks it's totally 8217.28 - 8219.84 fun uh documentation project management 8220.32 - 8221.88 these things are not necessarily things 8222.08 - 8223.48 I really like doing so it's important to 8223.64 - 8225.64 segment them because you'll be much more 8226.2 - 8228.36 successful at the things you like doing 8229.08 - 8231.08 you'll do them much more quickly than 8231.24 - 8233.24 the things you hate doing things you 8233.48 - 8236.16 hate doing you'll blow off you'll delay 8236.72 - 8238.76 you'll procras inate uh maybe you won't 8238.92 - 8241.08 do them as well and you know something 8241.4 - 8242.76 like bookkeep being all of a sudden 8243.04 - 8244.6 takes you know 10 times as long as it 8244.76 - 8246.68 should uh because you just don't like 8246.88 - 8252.88 doing 8248.32 - 8252.2 it do you have horizontal expertise so 8252.88 - 8255.52 the way I Define horizontal expertise is 8255.76 - 8258.68 the kind of stuff that touches all 8259.8 - 8262.4 projects applications that can be things 8262.72 - 8265.24 like SEO that can be things like 8265.84 - 8266.76 security performance 8268.6 - 8271.4 um do you have vertical expertise have 8271.52 - 8273.64 you found yourself looking at a specific 8274.48 - 8279.12 Niche 8276.2 - 8278.96 that you enjoy and you you've had 8279.12 - 8280.68 success with have you been successful 8281.28 - 8283.16 with you know Financial Services have 8283.28 - 8285.68 you been successful with Health Care um 8286.2 - 8288.24 you know uh what's the word I'm looking 8288.48 - 8291.4 for uh brick and mortar um you know 8291.88 - 8292.92 engagements where you're actually doing 8293.16 - 8294.76 that sort of first rung thing those are 8294.92 - 8297.76 actually kind of more specialized in a 8297.92 - 8300.2 in a vertical Columns of expertise 8300.72 - 8302.04 because not everyone does that another 8302.36 - 8304.4 great example is U of sort of vertical 8304.76 - 8306.28 expertise is do you have Enterprise 8306.92 - 8308.36 experience working with an Enterprise 8308.96 - 8311.56 client is completely different than 8311.76 - 8313.2 working with your local modern pop shop 8314 - 8315.88 they the requirements the expectations 8316.88 - 8318.92 the uh length of engagements are 8319.2 - 8322.76 completely 8320.44 - 8322.6 different so I've kind of run through 8322.76 - 8324.64 some of these uh quickly at the 8324.84 - 8326.4 discussion but there are other you know 8327.28 - 8329.16 part parts that uh I didn't quite cover 8329.64 - 8331.16 front end development that's you know 8332.16 - 8333.56 how do how do we actually you know 8333.76 - 8336.6 create that experience on the front end 8337.04 - 8338.44 backend development I know plenty of 8338.6 - 8340.04 people who just love this stuff who just 8340.2 - 8342.24 want to you know optimize databases get 8342.4 - 8343.96 in there you know figure out what's the 8344.24 - 8345.6 you know best way to create a workflow 8346.04 - 8346.24 within an 8347.08 - 8349.2 application um design design being 8349.4 - 8350.76 different than front end front end is a 8350.88 - 8353.12 level of coding that's you know not 8353.36 - 8355.2 necessarily synonymous with design 8356.2 - 8359.24 content creation this is always a uh a 8359.44 - 8360.72 lot of work and it's important to be 8360.84 - 8362.56 able to do that and it's you know if you 8362.68 - 8366.2 like 8363.48 - 8365.16 writing excuse me that's a great 8366.2 - 8369.2 thing project management yeah some 8369.4 - 8371.6 people love this and I know them well in 8371.72 - 8374.32 the community and that's great um so 8374.52 - 8375.8 some people are good at it love it 8376.04 - 8379.2 that's fantastic so identify you know 8380.2 - 8381.88 what in this list and you know other 8382.2 - 8384.76 items that haven't been mentioned uh are 8385.04 - 8386.64 things that you're good at you enjoy 8387 - 8389.08 doing and kind of you know get you 8389.16 - 8390.72 through the day and you know you feel 8391 - 8392.88 successful and you tick off check boxes 8393.2 - 8393.6 at doing those 8394.4 - 8397.56 things ah the hates again we need to we 8397.68 - 8399.08 really need to recognize both both 8399.36 - 8400.08 aspects of what we do 8400.8 - 8403 day-to-day uh maintenance and support so 8403.24 - 8404.8 many people just don't want to do this 8404.96 - 8406.36 part they want to build they want to 8406.48 - 8408.88 create they that website is you know 8409.04 - 8411.08 something they you know Envision give 8411.32 - 8415.12 birth to and you know the day-to-day uh 8415.24 - 8418.16 sort of uh mundaneness of taking care of 8418.44 - 8420.12 Maintenance and support may not be 8420.4 - 8421.84 something that's in your wheelhouse or 8422.12 - 8423.28 gets you know pushed to the back 8424.04 - 8426.4 burner coding you know if we look at 8426.8 - 8431.32 content and creative folk uh yes I'm 8431.8 - 8433.64 generalizing you know feel free to yell 8433.8 - 8436.64 at me later uh you know a lot may not 8436.88 - 8438.28 want a lot of you may not want to 8438.52 - 8440.04 actually do that coding not want to get 8440.2 - 8441.96 in there and figure out you know what's 8442.6 - 8444.52 you build your custom theme you know 8445.08 - 8446.32 with all that PHP Madness 8448 - 8449.64 pictures yeah that's a funny term for 8450.04 - 8453 just creating media uh words that's the 8453.24 - 8454.12 other Port part of 8455.56 - 8458.28 content and project management yeah 8458.44 - 8459.48 that's you know some people love it some 8459.6 - 8460.6 people hate it I love throwing it in 8460.76 - 8463.16 both categories because uh it usually 8463.4 - 8464.52 brings about fun discussions during 8464.84 - 8467.16 actual 8467.28 - 8470.68 sessions ah things that uh we should 8470.84 - 8471.76 recognize the things that we do across 8472.04 - 8472.28 all of our 8473.44 - 8475 projects and some of these you're going 8475.12 - 8475.92 to like and some of these you're going 8476.04 - 8477.04 to hate and that's fine 8478.08 - 8479.24 but it's all about finding strengths and 8479.4 - 8481.36 weaknesses so things that are going to 8481.44 - 8482.28 happen across all projects 8483.6 - 8486.36 SEO accessibility if and you should 8486.52 - 8487.68 definitely be looking at accessibility 8488.68 - 8490.6 fast so that performance making sure 8490.84 - 8491.16 that we can 8493.2 - 8496.28 uh have you know if not the fastest 8496.64 - 8497.88 website in the internet but you know 8498.12 - 8500.04 looking at it and tweaking things uh 8500.64 - 8501.28 where they're uh 8502.56 - 8505.44 bottlenecks security of course uh that 8506.08 - 8506.64 goes without say 8508.12 - 8509.4 project management that's always going 8509.48 - 8510.72 to happen so these kind of items you're 8510.8 - 8511.64 going to have to deal with no matter 8511.92 - 8513.84 what so you need to recognize whether 8514.08 - 8516.68 that's a a good thing or a bad thing for 8518.28 - 8519.68 you and then specific 8520.76 - 8524.12 projects so I'm going to bounce just 8524.4 - 8526.24 back for a sec so across all our 8526.48 - 8528.6 projects this is really to highlight the 8528.96 - 8530.84 uh horizontal nature of the work 8531.52 - 8532 everyone has to 8532.96 - 8535.04 do specific projects we're going to be 8535.2 - 8537.32 looking at you know do we understand the 8537.44 - 8539.76 industry so this is where you you can 8539.96 - 8542.08 start finding those vertical 8543.96 - 8546.6 niches regulatory knowledge you know so 8547 - 8548.16 if you understand the industry so you 8548.24 - 8550.96 may understand Enterprise workspace or 8551.16 - 8552.52 Enterprise engagements regulatory 8553.08 - 8555.24 knowledge do you actually come or have 8555.52 - 8558 on your team people who understand uh 8558.12 - 8561.6 Financial Services uh requirements uh in 8562.08 - 8565 you know biotech Pharma do you really 8565.52 - 8567.52 understand all those regul ations about 8567.84 - 8569.32 what content you can publish what you 8569.48 - 8571.04 can do you know how to build workflows 8571.6 - 8575.68 around 8572.48 - 8575.52 that again the experience so are you an 8575.68 - 8577.2 expert in the small medium Enterprise 8577.72 - 8579.68 space again looking to Define your 8579.96 - 8583.8 vertical 8581.88 - 8583.64 knowledge once you've gone through that 8583.8 - 8586.08 you can realize that you're not just a 8586.24 - 8587.88 WordPress developer and that's the most 8588.08 - 8589.44 important part of CMS you want a 8589.96 - 8591.92 invisible CMS you want to be able to 8592.24 - 8595.92 push that WordPress aspect down as 8596.4 - 8596.8 either a given 8597.88 - 8600.68 or you know yes of course we're experts 8601.16 - 8602.88 just like everyone's an expert it's 8603.48 - 8604.72 figuring out that you're not just a 8604.84 - 8606.96 WordPress developer not saying hi my 8607.12 - 8609.52 name's Joe my name's Kim you know I'm a 8609.64 - 8612.96 WordPress 8610.76 - 8611.76 developer everyone 8612.96 - 8616.44 is so in a you know example you could be 8616.56 - 8618.28 thinking about oh great you know I do 8618.4 - 8620.24 well on the back end I hate doing front 8620.76 - 8623.48 end um you know sort of on a broad 8623.84 - 8625.84 horizontal scale love that e-commerce 8626.64 - 8631.12 aspect 8628.76 - 8630.84 and really I don't know why but maybe 8631.12 - 8633.24 especially For Real Estate so now you've 8633.48 - 8634.16 really started defining 8635.36 - 8637.44 yourself having a unique value 8637.84 - 8640.96 proposition on uh creating applications 8641.92 - 8644.4 with WordPress in this space and then 8644.52 - 8645.68 you can start def find yourself as an 8645.96 - 8648.32 expert in owning that Niche so someone 8648.6 - 8650.32 else just does word press and claims 8650.68 - 8652.2 they can handle all that stuff doesn't 8652.52 - 8653.8 have the same leverage as you do because 8654 - 8655.8 you've gone through and defined that 8656 - 8658.64 entire experience and value you 8660.12 - 8662.56 provide yes and we can fix it more boy 8662.8 - 8663.56 time is flying 8665.6 - 8667.24 um we're gonna have another unicorn 8668 - 8668.84 because they're just fond to 8670.28 - 8672.6 watch gives you a little break little 8672.84 - 8674.4 pause unicorn's happy because we're 8674.52 - 8678.08 getting 8675.8 - 8677.36 somewhere your hates are your 8678.08 - 8679.88 opportunities and so this is the 8681 - 8682.48 critical reason why 8683.52 - 8685.84 we're splitting that list between what's 8686.12 - 8689.48 good and what's it's bad um when you can 8690.16 - 8692.96 recognize the things you hate doing and 8693.2 - 8694.96 are wasting time which at the end of day 8695.08 - 8696.76 is wasting money you can start looking 8697 - 8697.24 at Partners 8699.16 - 8703.2 tools I am and running through this the 8703.4 - 8705.08 goal is to embrace 8707.24 - 8710.72 Partners one of the things that exists 8711.72 - 8713.28 everywhere are tons of affiliate 8713.72 - 8715.24 programs but partnership is different 8715.48 - 8716.4 than an affiliate program an affiliate 8716.68 - 8719.16 progr program is very One Way partner 8719.72 - 8721.52 program is more than just sending 8721.84 - 8723.12 traffic in One Direction in an affiliate 8723.56 - 8725.12 relationship it's like great you have a 8725.24 - 8726.88 link whatnot what you really want to 8727.04 - 8730.4 look for is the opportunity to integrate 8731.08 - 8732.8 Solutions um not just on the technology 8733.44 - 8734.6 side but also on the business 8735.76 - 8737.68 side one of the opportunities is of 8737.8 - 8738.92 course trying to you know create 8739.32 - 8742.36 exclusivity around uh your relationships 8743.36 - 8744.68 is is this a unique service offering 8745 - 8746.2 that no one else can replicate because 8746.44 - 8749.44 of your experience and tools and way of 8749.6 - 8751.56 thinking how to put these together as a 8751.68 - 8754.64 unique value proposition and of course I 8754.84 - 8756.36 love this phrase buying skin of the game 8756.6 - 8758.04 everyone's got to be involved you know 8758.2 - 8759.76 even if it's a dollar from each party in 8759.92 - 8761.76 a relationship that will make people 8762.16 - 8764.72 much more um involved in the 8768.24 - 8771.52 conversation 8769.84 - 8771.28 Partners you know there's so many 8771.52 - 8773.32 different types of Partners hosting 8774.32 - 8774.76 maintenance and 8775.56 - 8778.08 support and other horizontal and 8778.24 - 8781.08 vertical experts so that could be that 8782.08 - 8784.84 um project management Outsourcing that 8784.96 - 8786.28 solves all your problems maintenance and 8786.48 - 8787.92 support you know whether you're 8788.68 - 8792.28 Contracting out or I would actually look 8792.6 - 8795.88 to much more significant Partners uh who 8796 - 8797.16 are already in the space and have found 8797.44 - 8798.76 the efficiencies in the work they do and 8798.84 - 8799.76 there's so many you know you look at 8799.92 - 8802.88 like gowp WP Buffs codable you know 8803.24 - 8804.28 these are the folks in the WordPress 8804.76 - 8806.8 space that can handle uh mainten and 8807.32 - 8808.88 support ad hoc quickly with expertise 8809.52 - 8811.36 and really make sure your uh customers 8811.72 - 8813.8 are happy and finding ways to you know 8813.96 - 8815.6 integrate that you know either sort of a 8815.76 - 8817.64 white label way or a backend kind of way 8818.12 - 8822.4 is a great uh technique to leverage best 8822.76 - 8824.04 opportunities so you can focus on what 8824.16 - 8825.8 makes you uh successful with your 8825.96 - 8828.12 customers hosting and hosting you know 8828.24 - 8829.88 you're always going to host somewhere 8830.88 - 8833.56 one of the things is each host often has 8833.92 - 8835.52 different opportunities to build 8835.8 - 8837.4 relationships with if you have a unique 8837.68 - 8839.76 value proposition feel free to reach out 8840.08 - 8842.12 their to their partner programs to have 8842.32 - 8844.24 those conversations you know folks you 8844.36 - 8846.56 know everything from inmotion WP engine 8846.96 - 8849.6 liquid web cloudways so on and so forth 8850.56 - 8853.4 uh you know in the hosting space we're 8853.64 - 8854.8 always looking for you know New 8855.12 - 8857.92 Opportunities and ways to create a 8858.04 - 8858.32 unique value 8860.48 - 8863.04 proposition tools uh similar to the 8863.16 - 8864.64 Partnerships I mean you're going to want 8864.72 - 8867.04 to look at systems that that allow you 8867.12 - 8869.12 to maybe white label leverage again 8869.36 - 8870.96 things you want to you know have to deal 8871.24 - 8874.48 with and certainly on the SEO side there 8874.6 - 8878.4 are a million billion tools um but even 8878.64 - 8880.44 more uniquely I find some of the uh 8880.8 - 8883.64 privacy cookie um you know intellectual 8884.2 - 8887.64 property uh automatic policy tools out 8887.84 - 8888.12 there are 8889.04 - 8891.24 are it's fantastic it's one thing you 8891.44 - 8892.92 have uh don't have to deal with and it's 8893.48 - 8895.96 a magical upsell uh for your customers 8896.44 - 8899.36 and again for lets them see that you 8899.56 - 8900.72 really are an expert above and beyond 8901.24 - 8903.2 just WordPress you're taking the whole 8903.44 - 8903.72 package into 8906.4 - 8908.8 consideration uh workflow automation 8909.32 - 8910.88 tools things from staging and production 8911.84 - 8913.76 all these things uh are key to leverage 8914.08 - 8914.96 so you're not wasting your time and 8915.88 - 8917.4 resources everything from forms 8919.72 - 8922.16 crms once you get that all in it's fixed 8922.6 - 8924.16 your CMS is invisible you're no longer 8924.52 - 8926.64 just that WordPress developer and we get 8926.76 - 8928.28 to celebrate with tons and tons of 8928.36 - 8931.68 unicorns everyone is happy we're uh you 8931.8 - 8934.12 know really changing the way that your 8934.68 - 8937.72 business can communicate and position 8938.32 - 8941.32 itself one more thing embrace the 8941.44 - 8943 challenge so a lot of these tools are 8943.56 - 8946.68 available as uh you know sas-based 8947.68 - 8951.2 Integrations so to get there we need to 8951.4 - 8953.12 focus on our non-wordpress advantages 8954.12 - 8956.04 horizontal vertical expertise that 8956.2 - 8957.84 covers any kind of tool or technology 8958.84 - 8961.52 think of a new business plan that takes 8961.88 - 8963.88 WordPress out of the equation pretend 8964.12 - 8965.88 you never had WordPress how would you do 8966.04 - 8966.6 the things you do 8967.56 - 8969.76 today with maybe another technology tool 8970 - 8971.4 set or whatnot but really just to get 8971.52 - 8973.96 your thinking like if I didn't tell you 8974.08 - 8975.2 know a potential customer that I use 8975.4 - 8976.76 WordPress what else would I tell 8977.84 - 8980.04 them uh focus on the clients that 8980.2 - 8982.52 compliment your advantages so you have 8982.68 - 8983.84 gone through this exercise you figured 8984.08 - 8985.24 out what's good and bad what you know 8985.52 - 8987 what you don't know look to the 8987.52 - 8988.72 customers you've had in the past and the 8988.8 - 8990.64 customers you'd like to work with create 8990.96 - 8992.64 an ideal customer profile what does that 8992.76 - 8995.68 customer look like are they um super 8996.08 - 8998.64 tech heavy in the you know Financial 8999.08 - 9002.32 Services space great Embrace lean into 9003.32 - 9005.6 what you like doing and then kick some 9006.36 - 9008.36 sass you know abstract the technology 9009.04 - 9010.16 again we're trying to push all the 9010.28 - 9011.84 actual names and brands of the tools out 9011.96 - 9013.44 of the way and look at what we're 9013.68 - 9015.12 accomplishing at the end of the day 9015.64 - 9017.24 customers look for solutions that 9017.36 - 9019.24 embrace all of this not any specific 9020.96 - 9023.2 technology monetize the services so 9023.4 - 9024.76 partner with all these Service uh 9024.92 - 9026.92 microservices sass platforms white 9027.16 - 9029.32 labeled uh take advantage of things that 9029.48 - 9033.56 can be repeated and uh you know not made 9033.8 - 9035.76 so you have to custom code every 9036.88 - 9039.88 day and add to the Consulting you 9040.6 - 9042.56 know at the end of the day whatever 9042.92 - 9044.36 you're doing you're going to be helping 9044.88 - 9047.48 someone the people matter people are 9047.64 - 9049.36 your customers the people are the endend 9049.96 - 9052.28 users um you're providing advice and you 9052.36 - 9054.24 should be there and and leverage that 9054.44 - 9055.72 ability to talk about what you're doing 9056.04 - 9058.12 well because that will impart uh 9058.28 - 9059.84 information and knowledge to your end 9061.48 - 9064.12 users thank you race through that one 9064.76 - 9067.64 you can find me uh everywhere here yep 9067.88 - 9069.8 that is actually my mobile number please 9070 - 9072.24 don't abuse um thank you very 9074.04 - 9078.6 much thanks Paul Jakob Robert sorry I 9078.64 - 9079.76 don't know why I called you Paul I have 9079.92 - 9083.04 Paul on my mind I think that I must be 9083.36 - 9085.08 expecting there to be a Paul at your 9085.36 - 9088.2 annual marinara dinner which I have 9088.4 - 9090.08 heard rumors about and I want to know 9090.32 - 9091.8 more about and find out how I can get an 9094.64 - 9096.56 invitation excuse me that made me laugh 9096.88 - 9098.48 a little too much it's actually not the 9098.6 - 9100.04 dinner it's actually the Festival of 9100.16 - 9103.64 making marinir for the whole year so at 9103.76 - 9105.64 the end of August I'll usually you know 9105.84 - 9109.08 buy about let's both do uh us and or us 9109.36 - 9111.8 and European measurements so you know 20 9112.16 - 9114.96 kilos 40 pounds of tomatoes and you know 9115.12 - 9117.6 spend three days uh building this out 9117.8 - 9120 from stretch every batch takes five to 9120.16 - 9123.08 six hours to make and there will be 9123.48 - 9125.64 enough sauce for the entire winter in 9125.76 - 9127.44 fact I think there are still what is it 9127.64 - 9129.48 it's June it's there are still two bags 9130 - 9133.84 two or three bags of uh sauce still 9134.2 - 9136.4 waiting to be used oh my gosh so sounds 9136.6 - 9137.96 like the sort of job that you need a 9138.16 - 9139.8 team to help with so I'll give you a 9140 - 9141.6 call on your cell phone number and you 9141.76 - 9143.44 let me know when you need some help and 9143.56 - 9144.92 we'll get a whole team organized to come 9145.08 - 9147.12 over and help road trip be 9148.8 - 9150.08 amazing party at 9153.6 - 9156.44 Rob okay Ro we are going to take a 9156.68 - 9158.12 profit of your knowledge of the industry 9158.88 - 9160.16 I think is one of the most important 9160.72 - 9162.68 points of your view taking into account 9163.16 - 9164.2 that you are a member of the internet 9164.68 - 9166.88 infrastructure coalition what are at 9167 - 9168.68 this moment from your point of view the 9168.84 - 9170.72 most important projects that can affect 9171.4 - 9173.52 all of us regarding the way we are using 9173.84 - 9177.36 the internet so the I2 Coalition is very 9178 - 9179.24 uh interesting so you can actually find 9179.48 - 9182.64 them at I the number2 coalition.com and 9183.64 - 9186.16 the goals and focus are to make sure 9186.56 - 9189.6 small businesses are heard in the actual 9189.92 - 9193.68 giant internet economy uh at the sort of 9193.84 - 9195.04 government level so it's it's an 9195.24 - 9198.68 advocacy group it uh creates plans and 9198.92 - 9201.4 focus around you know should we you know 9202.04 - 9204.6 should XYZ be legalized so meaning you 9204.72 - 9206.36 know do are we going to force everyone 9206.76 - 9209.4 with you know an email system to do this 9209.6 - 9211.08 kind of production you know how can we 9212.08 - 9216.68 uh encourage you know end you know end 9217.04 - 9218.84 website you know firewalls and things I 9218.88 - 9220.12 mean you know a great example is what 9220.28 - 9222.84 we've seen recently around uh sort of 9223 - 9225.8 security missteps you know what's the uh 9226.48 - 9227.28 oh what do you call it when 9227.96 - 9230.4 you get your whole site hacked and you 9230.48 - 9232.08 have to pay someone the ransomware oh 9232.28 - 9235.6 Ransom ransomware yeah yeah I mean the 9235.72 - 9238.4 goals of the of the I2 Coalition are to 9239.08 - 9241.72 sort of bring the Baseline of 9242.12 - 9243.96 performance security and usability up 9244.44 - 9244.88 for all end 9245.84 - 9248.96 users so you recommend for example the 9249.12 - 9251.32 hosting providers to be members of this 9251.72 - 9253.68 Coalition yes so there are hosting 9254.08 - 9256.36 providers domain name providers you know 9256.72 - 9258.24 sort of the people that you kind of 9258.36 - 9259.56 think of last until something goes 9262.28 - 9265.24 wrong well okay like the fast like you 9265.32 - 9267.2 know like having uh actually this was 9267.32 - 9267.96 what I was really like yesterday's 9268.4 - 9270.28 fastly outage yeah that's what I was 9270.36 - 9273.12 gonna ask about next question is about 9274.92 - 9278.04 that Les please so speaking of when 9278.2 - 9280.2 things go wrong um you know with this 9281 - 9283 major outage at a major CDN I wasn't 9283.24 - 9284.36 going to name them I was going to try to 9284.44 - 9286.84 be polite uh that that brought down half 9287.04 - 9289.92 the internet um do you think this is an 9290.16 - 9292.88 indication of fragility in the industry 9293.68 - 9296.2 and and how do you think that host will 9296.4 - 9298.92 be changing or forced to change in the 9300.08 - 9303.2 future great question I actually I don't 9303.44 - 9305.08 think it's indication of fragility I 9305.2 - 9307.68 think it's it's a typical problem that's 9307.88 - 9309.8 been in Computing Computing for forever 9310.8 - 9313.84 if if you don't build in uh redundancies 9314.84 - 9317.08 in different ways yeah that that one 9317.32 - 9319.36 point of failure it's it's going to fail 9319.88 - 9321.88 at some point and you know through no 9322 - 9323.4 fault of your own or whatever the case 9323.6 - 9326.6 may be I think you know it's expensive 9327.16 - 9328.2 now and you don't see many companies 9328.56 - 9330.04 doing it but you know relying on 9330.32 - 9332.44 multiple Cloud providers you know being 9332.72 - 9335.96 able to you know swap out from fastly to 9336.24 - 9338.88 Cloud flare to you know whatever other 9339.08 - 9340.84 CDN may be out there but even at the 9340.96 - 9342.44 core at your back end so you maybe 9342.72 - 9345.56 pushing stuff out to the uh um the edge 9346.52 - 9347.72 but you may also want to have redundancy 9348.48 - 9351.84 you know for your core site so you know 9352.04 - 9355.28 you're going to share that um sync that 9355.52 - 9358 between whoops did I just blow up my oh 9358.32 - 9359.56 good my presentation hear 9360.92 - 9363.12 you um you know something between 9363.44 - 9365.68 digital ocean and AWS and Google Cloud 9366.56 - 9369.4 you know as as those prices come down to 9369.56 - 9371.24 more commodity levels I think there'll 9371.52 - 9373.32 be solution providers that allow you to 9373.48 - 9375.4 leverage multiple platforms simultane 9376.44 - 9380.76 to Avid exactly what we saw yeah and um 9381.76 - 9383.48 talking about hosting providers how do 9383.6 - 9385.32 you think hor will be changing or forced 9385.64 - 9387.12 to change in the future on the future 9387.8 - 9390.08 and um do you think we will see an 9390.28 - 9392.24 increase in specializ CMS hosting 9392.64 - 9393.44 companies in the near 9395 - 9397.64 future two big questions um so one of 9397.72 - 9400.04 the things obviously I think that whole 9400.36 - 9401.6 redundancy idea is going to be critical 9402.6 - 9404.8 to start attacking and you know being 9405 - 9406.16 able to provide to any users at 9406.32 - 9409.48 reasonable pricing the other is you know 9410.04 - 9411.52 that specialization at some point 9411.8 - 9413.68 everyone's going to be specialized in 9413.88 - 9415.44 WordPress I mean we have sort of the big 9415.64 - 9418.24 hitters now but again it it'll be just 9418.4 - 9419.92 an expectation of course you're going to 9420.08 - 9421.92 be an expert WordPress of course it's 9422.04 - 9423.84 going be managed so you're going to see 9424.72 - 9426.92 companies uh trying to build those sort 9427.08 - 9428.64 of vertical spaces like you know these 9428.76 - 9429.72 are the things that we provide for 9429.88 - 9431.76 everyone that no one else provides um 9431.92 - 9433.32 whether it's some kind of you know extra 9433.64 - 9435.36 security tool or Performance Tools or 9436.76 - 9438.56 uh analytics whatever and everyone's 9438.88 - 9441.52 going to start trying to you know find 9441.8 - 9442.88 that one little space where they're good 9443.04 - 9444.52 across the board and 9445.4 - 9447.6 then sort of the vertical nature you 9447.72 - 9450.56 know are we a hosting company that can 9450.76 - 9452.92 support health care sites yeah that's 9453.08 - 9455.8 going to be a big deal and you know if 9455.92 - 9456.8 you can get those kinds of 9457 - 9458.4 certifications that'll be hugely 9458.88 - 9460.96 important so you know we're still going 9461.04 - 9463.12 to see a run on hosting companies doing 9463.4 - 9464.72 great things over the next five years 9465.48 - 9467.04 just because they're experts at 9467.2 - 9468.88 WordPress and you know if you look those 9469.08 - 9470.64 WP engine numbers I mean it's a huge 9470.96 - 9472.72 market and host is a lot of 9473.4 - 9476.4 it but you know as with any technology 9477.4 - 9478.56 everyone's GNA be able to do it at some 9478.8 - 9482.32 point so got focus on those unique value 9483.24 - 9485.4 propositions I'm thinking about how you 9485.52 - 9486.88 know you're speaking to a huge audience 9487.44 - 9489.24 here um I wish I had actual numbers for 9489.44 - 9491.48 you well we'll talk later about actual 9491.96 - 9495.88 viewers later but um I wonder if you 9496.24 - 9498.04 have any advice for us as sort of 9498.68 - 9501.12 effectively a big voting block what 9501.28 - 9503.12 should we as customers of Hosting 9503.6 - 9505.88 companies be demanding what should we be 9506.12 - 9508.08 asking for of these folks that host our 9509.64 - 9513.68 sites um support I mean and and that's 9513.8 - 9515.6 going to sort of tie into everything can 9515.72 - 9517.56 I talk to a human can I get my questions 9517.96 - 9519.88 answered as soon as possible I think 9520.04 - 9521.28 that's that's a very critical component 9522.28 - 9523.64 and everyone's trying to you know bring 9523.96 - 9526.32 that up as high as POS possible in 9526.56 - 9528.52 quality which at some point again will 9528.68 - 9530.48 then be commoditized what's the next 9530.76 - 9533.68 thing can you help me build my site can 9533.84 - 9536.76 you help me you know tweak some of you 9536.88 - 9539 know my e-commerce things I I feel that 9539.92 - 9541.48 either through Partnerships most likely 9541.76 - 9543.4 through Partnerships that the hosting 9543.76 - 9545.32 companies will start you know having 9545.68 - 9547.48 these in-house solution groups in-house 9548.48 - 9550.88 partnered uh in-house solution groups 9551.64 - 9551.96 that can take 9553 - 9555.4 on unique questions uh 9556.28 - 9558 and you know solve them for customers 9558.48 - 9562.4 and I I think us as a block should be 9562.6 - 9565 like hey can you do this will you do 9565.56 - 9568.2 this I think that'll sort of like push 9569 - 9570.96 the whole hosting ecosystem in that 9571.24 - 9574.92 direction to uh you know again help 9578.92 - 9581.72 right support is one of the most if not 9581.96 - 9583.8 the most important thing for the 9583.92 - 9586.08 customer experience for the yeah I mean 9586.28 - 9587.72 because you know if all the technology 9588.16 - 9589.64 is equal what's what what makes makes 9589.84 - 9591.08 you different it's how you communicate 9592.08 - 9594.4 engage with educate your customers yeah 9594.76 - 9596.6 yeah well Robert thank you again for 9596.8 - 9598.64 your time we really appreciate it what 9598.92 - 9600.48 can we invite you to head over to the 9600.64 - 9602.88 question and answer room to meet with 9603.12 - 9604.56 anybody who has questions for you 9605.28 - 9606.48 absolutely as soon as I find it 9607.16 - 9610.36 excellent it's in hubo so H go to rooms 9610.8 - 9612.04 and then track one and that's for 9612.36 - 9613.68 everybody at home as well that's how you 9613.8 - 9614.92 get there before before 9616.52 - 9618.2 before you leave just one more question 9618.6 - 9620.4 coming from someone called Alexander 9621.32 - 9623.72 sakovic who is asking you who is your 9623.96 - 9625.52 best employee on the 9629.36 - 9630.6 team I love 9633.6 - 9635.64 Alec sorry I had to do it 9638 - 9640.2 sorry I guess if I don't say Alexander 9640.96 - 9641.08 I'm in 9643.2 - 9645.84 trouble or maybe he finally knows the 9649.12 - 9650.28 truth thank you 9651.2 - 9653.76 Alex thank you Robert thank you so 9674.44 - 9677.44 mucht 9682.52 - 9693.45 [Music] 9693.56 - 9695 I think we have to tell everybody who 9695.28 - 9696.04 Alexander is 9697.28 - 9700.08 now well Alex Alexander is the 9700.24 - 9702.12 contenting leader of workup buau that's 9702.76 - 9705.44 why it's a colleague of us it's one one 9705.52 - 9706.92 of the volunteers that is helping in 9707.12 - 9709.64 this event and marvelous colleague I'm 9709.88 - 9710.8 very funny as you can 9712.08 - 9715.84 see just with this question I love that 9716.12 - 9719.16 presentation of Robert and I everything 9719.96 - 9722.28 around technology not only WordPress but 9722.48 - 9724.12 the things around WordPress or the base 9724.92 - 9727.2 the technology base of Wordpress are is 9727.4 - 9729.68 is also very interesting for all our 9729.92 - 9731.76 audience to know about it yeah 9732.32 - 9734.72 absolutely but now now it's time for 9735 - 9736.56 another interview and we have the 9736.76 - 9738.52 pleasure of interviewing Jeremy Herve 9739.24 - 9741.16 jetpack mechanic I love these titles 9741.96 - 9742.96 jetpack mechanic at 9744.76 - 9751 automatic 9747.4 - 9750.8 hello hi Jeremy hi Jeremy H nice to see 9751 - 9752.84 you it's it's been a great three days 9753.48 - 9754.68 thanks to all of you for all your great 9754.88 - 9756.96 work with us it's been it's been super 9757.68 - 9759.16 I'm really looking forward to the final 9759.56 - 9761.08 interview that comes right after me 9762.64 - 9764.76 yes thank you so much thank you so much 9764.88 - 9767.32 for your words D me what do you think is 9767.48 - 9770.08 the most rewarding uh thing about taking 9770.48 - 9771.96 part in the WordPress Community for your 9773.24 - 9775.04 company that's going to be hard to pick 9775.6 - 9778.48 just one thing I guess as a bu business 9778.84 - 9780.96 that's built on top of Wordpress it's 9781.4 - 9783.12 it's only logical thing to do to 9783.52 - 9785.28 contribute back and to give back I mean 9786.28 - 9787.88 automatic wouldn't be what it is today 9788.48 - 9792.04 without WordPress and we have to embrace 9792.44 - 9794.52 that as much as we can and I guess 9794.72 - 9795.04 Beyond those 9796 - 9797.96 business reasons is also at the at the 9798.08 - 9799.88 core of our company culture today it's 9800.2 - 9801.56 it's really WordPress is one of our core 9801.84 - 9804.16 values it's many of us at the company 9804.48 - 9806.32 even before we got hired before we 9806.48 - 9807.88 started making a living thanks to 9808.28 - 9810.72 Wordpress we we got our start with 9810.88 - 9812.52 WordPress thanks to his community so we 9812.64 - 9815.08 got helped in the forums or we were 9815.28 - 9817.48 using Wordpress obviously it themes 9817.96 - 9820.2 plugins documentations for our own sites 9821.2 - 9823.76 and our first introduction to Wordpress 9824.32 - 9826.88 was by people who were giving to the 9827.04 - 9829.24 community so I think it's very natural 9829.88 - 9831.36 and a very rewarding thing to do 9831.64 - 9834 personally to be a able to do the same 9834.16 - 9834.32 for others 9835.92 - 9839.32 now do you have any tips for people or 9839.64 - 9840.76 companies who want to get started 9841.52 - 9842.08 contributing to 9843.16 - 9845.56 Wordpress uh yeah I mean there are many 9845.8 - 9847.16 ways you can contribute I think we've 9847.64 - 9849 discussed about all this during the 9849.56 - 9852.24 streat and I still think that for many 9852.48 - 9853.76 people the first thing that comes to 9853.92 - 9856.4 mind is core contributing code and I 9856.48 - 9858.2 think that's often a mistake there's so 9858.36 - 9859.76 many other ways you can contribute this 9860.56 - 9863 translations helping the firms reviewing 9863.6 - 9864.4 themes updating 9865.44 - 9867.44 documentation and I I'd say for a 9867.6 - 9869.96 company willing to start pick what 9870.08 - 9872.16 you're comfortable with pick what what 9872.32 - 9874.6 you're strung at and it can be code 9875 - 9876.4 maybe it can be documentation maybe it 9876.48 - 9878.72 can be something else and I guess you 9878.88 - 9882.04 have the portal the the me websites on 9882.24 - 9885.68 meg. we.org head on there look at what 9885.88 - 9888.28 interests you and start following the 9888.56 - 9890.52 conversations start participating in 9890.68 - 9891.92 those conversations and you'll find 9892.52 - 9894.48 yourself contributing in no time 9896.16 - 9899.04 nice perfect which are the benefits of 9899.32 - 9900.96 contributing to Wordpress as a company 9901.56 - 9904.84 um or in other way EI other words how 9905.04 - 9907.2 would you convince other companies to 9907.44 - 9909.12 start getting involved in the worldpress 9910.08 - 9912.68 community yeah good question yes what's 9912.84 - 9914.84 in it for me right that's no question 9916.32 - 9918.36 yeah uh yeah that's that's a good 9918.56 - 9920.76 question I mean there's obviously a 9920.88 - 9922.8 benefit for for the individual it's a 9922.92 - 9924.12 great learning experience I mean 9924.36 - 9926.28 WordPress being a worldwide Community 9926.68 - 9928.04 you get to interact with so many people 9929.04 - 9930.6 you improve your communication skills 9931.16 - 9934.48 you learn better coding you get free if 9934.6 - 9935.96 you contribute code you get free code 9936.2 - 9938.88 reviews from others you get to know 9939.12 - 9940.24 about upcoming changes in WordPress 9940.72 - 9942.32 before everybody else because you helped 9942.68 - 9945.28 Implement them so all those things make 9945.52 - 9947.64 you as a person like a a bit of a better 9948 - 9949.88 workers expert in your field of 9950.44 - 9953.56 expertise and I think this these things 9953.76 - 9954.88 that are that make you a better person 9955.2 - 9956.56 all around they're also good for your 9956.76 - 9958.28 company in the end because all those 9958.48 - 9960.36 things are things that your company will 9960.56 - 9963.44 benefit from and will maybe even be able 9963.64 - 9966.64 to Market as as a company of Wordpress 9967.08 - 9968.72 experts maybe you gonna have more 9969.08 - 9970.88 potential clients and customers down the 9971 - 9974.36 road I guess that's that would be the 9974.56 - 9976.64 main benefit or a good reason to get 9977.16 - 9979.64 started that makes sense well Jeremy I 9979.72 - 9981.32 think we have time to ask you one more 9981.6 - 9983.04 question and it has become my favorite 9983.4 - 9985.56 question for our sponsors and it is what 9985.72 - 9987.92 is your prediction for when we get to be 9988.28 - 9989.92 back in one another's Presence at an 9990.12 - 9993.2 in-person word Camp uh yeah that's a 9993.36 - 9994.96 good question I'm looking forward to 9995.16 - 9998.76 that can tell you that yes uh yeah I I 9998.84 - 10001.08 mean those online word camps are great 10001.48 - 10003.16 and this has been probably one of the 10003.28 - 10004.6 better organized I've attended to be 10004.72 - 10008 honest it's the tools are great and we 10008.24 - 10009.84 we can interact with each other still 10010.84 - 10013.76 but but it's not the same it's I'm 10013.92 - 10015.32 personally looking forward to back to 10015.56 - 10018 those whole ways at work camps where you 10018.16 - 10020.52 can start interacting with people get 10020.72 - 10022.8 into conversations and or have 10023.04 - 10024.92 conversation that with sponsors at Booth 10025.92 - 10027.84 ask have your problems answers or your 10028 - 10029.88 concerns addressed and those are things 10030.12 - 10031.24 that this is what I'm looking forward 10031.6 - 10033.36 the most all those hallway conversations 10034.36 - 10034.48 I agree 10035.52 - 10038.88 yeah looking forward track yes exactly 10039.88 - 10042.04 yeah Jeremy thank you so much for 10042.32 - 10043.84 joining us here on the stage but also 10044.12 - 10045.32 thank you to automatic for your 10045.56 - 10048.64 contribution as a sponsor to our event 10049.44 - 10051.08 um I hope that you're headed over to 10051.24 - 10053.64 your booth for the break before we get 10053.8 - 10056.44 to have our final session that we're all 10056.72 - 10059.04 looking forward to um I would encourage 10059.4 - 10060.84 everyone to go see met because that 10060.96 - 10063.76 should be interesting yes very good well 10063.92 - 10064.76 thank you enjoy the 10065.44 - 10066.84 little that we have left of the 10068.24 - 10072.24 event thank you thank you bye now this 10072.36 - 10074.04 is the time for networking of visiting 10074.8 - 10077 our sponsors booths we come back in 10 10077.28 - 10079.92 minutes with one of the most important 10080.4 - 10082.92 moments at working Europe so see you 10083.2 - 10086.2 around 10093.8 - 10096.8 chaa 10111.98 - 10137.2 [Music] 10153.72 - 10156.72 w 10169.6 - 10186.47 [Music] 10183.72 - 10208.62 oh 10186.47 - 10208.62 [Music] 10213.64 - 10216.64 w 10234.02 - 10239.41 [Music] 10243.64 - 10246.64 n 10247.21 - 10270.53 [Music] 10273.56 - 10276.56 w 10303.56 - 10306.56 oh 10312.45 - 10351.51 [Music] 10363.44 - 10366.44 w 10376.9 - 10395.64 [Music] 10393.36 - 10422.91 a 10395.64 - 10422.91 [Music] 10423.36 - 10426.36 w 10453.28 - 10510.61 oh 10455.31 - 10510.61 [Music] 10513.2 - 10516.2 oh 10526.71 - 10546.2 [Music] 10543.2 - 10546.2 oh 10547.37 - 10565.71 [Music] 10573.12 - 10576.12 w 10598.11 - 10604.28 [Music] 10603.08 - 10628.05 oh 10604.28 - 10628.05 [Music] 10633 - 10650.78 oh 10635.79 - 10650.78 [Music] 10663 - 10666 oh 10683.39 - 10695.88 [Music] 10693.6 - 10695.68 welcome welcome back everyone and thank 10695.88 - 10697.84 you for joining us for word Camp Europe 10698.16 - 10701.44 online 2021 and for being here for these 10701.64 - 10703.44 three awesome days of content and 10703.6 - 10707.56 networking 10705.32 - 10707.16 opportunities well one of the most 10707.56 - 10709.6 expected moments of work Europe is 10709.96 - 10712.52 finally here today Wednesday 9th of June 10713.08 - 10714.56 we have the great pleasure of having 10715.12 - 10717.24 Matt mulen and Matias Ventura with us 10718.12 - 10720.52 they have something special prepar for 10720.8 - 10723 all of us coming up in the next few 10723.24 - 10726.6 minutes 10724.8 - 10726.44 as you know Matt muan wig is the 10726.6 - 10728.96 co-founder of Wordpress and CEO of 10729.08 - 10730.6 automatic and one of the most relevant 10731.04 - 10733 people worldwide in the technology and 10733.24 - 10736.48 distributed sector today hi Matt hello 10737.2 - 10738.32 hello how you 10739.12 - 10741.64 doing really well it's it's just such a 10741.88 - 10744.12 pleasure to be with yall even if 10744.6 - 10746.72 virtually yes thank and another y'all 10747.24 - 10748.44 thank you for that this is my second 10748.76 - 10749.4 y'all of word Camp 10751.04 - 10754.52 Europe thank you thank you mat uh well 10754.92 - 10756.2 together with Matt we have Matias 10756.6 - 10758.84 Ventura Matias is an engineer and 10759.08 - 10761.32 designer from Mont uai currently 10761.96 - 10763.32 responsible for the Gutenberg project 10763.88 - 10765.6 the most important wordplace project in 10765.76 - 10768.8 recent years hi Matias how are you hola 10769.8 - 10772.72 hello hello how are you doing hola 10774.12 - 10777.2 fantastic fantastic Matas so welcome 10778.08 - 10780.16 thank you very much for being here for 10780.56 - 10782.64 sharing this moment with all of us H 10783 - 10785.16 we'll leave you to your session see you 10788.12 - 10790.88 later all right it's it's very exciting 10791.44 - 10793.6 that like you know word Camp Europe was 10793.76 - 10795.36 always such an interesting Nexus because 10795.48 - 10797.84 it' bring people from all over Europe a 10797.92 - 10799.12 lot of people coming from Asia obviously 10799.44 - 10802.16 from America but um this online version 10802.84 - 10804.96 is is so cool to see because I know 10805.16 - 10806.56 people are tuning in from literally all 10806.72 - 10808.56 over the world and even watching The 10808.68 - 10809.84 Sessions it's kind of cool to see people 10810.08 - 10811.08 with like different amounts of sun 10811.52 - 10811.88 coming in the 10812.76 - 10815.92 window 10814.44 - 10815.8 which I found pretty cool I feel like 10815.92 - 10818.4 the 21st century is the one we'll look 10818.64 - 10821.36 back on as the the one where we harness 10821.84 - 10824.04 the Sun and I think that's also like 10824.2 - 10825.96 transformable solar power but also that 10826.2 - 10828.04 like the Sun never sets on people 10828.28 - 10828.52 working on 10829.24 - 10831.52 WordPress it's literally as people wake 10831.76 - 10833.8 up and go to sleep all over the world uh 10833.96 - 10836.52 it's constantly getting better and we're 10836.84 - 10838.2 what when was 5.0 was that 2018 10839.56 - 10843.96 now yeah I think so yeah like so does 10844.12 - 10845.4 that mean you've been working on 10845.56 - 10847.08 Gutenberg I guess we've been working on 10847.2 - 10850.16 Gutenberg for four years indeed yes was 10850.28 - 10851.4 it one year or two before the release 10851.92 - 10854.08 that we start I think we had we actually 10854.36 - 10856.48 had two if we count all the initial like 10856.8 - 10859.8 prototyping phase and so on one of my 10859.92 - 10861.44 favorite quotes is Joel spolsky who said 10861.6 - 10863.08 it takes 10 years to make great software 10863.8 - 10865.08 so I guess it means we're about halfway 10865.52 - 10868.08 to Gutenberg being truly great yeah 10868.16 - 10870.32 we're getting there there's some really 10870.52 - 10873.32 cool stuff H coming very soon and uh in 10873.44 - 10876.56 fact .8 and both in the plugin um did 10876.68 - 10879.44 you want to roll the tape should we show 10879.68 - 10881.52 them what yeah we we prepare a short 10881.88 - 10883.6 video to to share with you all let's 10883.8 - 10885.28 roll anything you want to say to to set 10885.44 - 10889.24 it up or your thoughts so the the main 10889.48 - 10891.6 thing I think to is like there's been a 10891.8 - 10894.52 lot of work over the last um couple 10894.96 - 10897.68 years uh even among the pandemic and 10897.88 - 10900.32 everything and I think it's good to to 10900.52 - 10902.24 celebrate all the work that all the 10902.4 - 10903.92 contributors around the world world had 10904.08 - 10906.68 been putting into this um and we have 10906.88 - 10908.72 like 5.8 is going to be a pack release 10909.48 - 10911.04 um actually the biggest challenge is 10911.6 - 10913.72 figuring out how much we include and how 10913.88 - 10915.64 much we live out because it can be 10915.8 - 10917.6 overwhelming to have too many things at 10917.8 - 10920.84 once um so let's let's roll the video 10921.04 - 10924.12 and we can talk about it later sounds 10927.88 - 10930.36 good welcome to this Gutenberg highlight 10931.2 - 10932.88 as the block editor gets ready to become 10933.12 - 10933.24 a site 10934.56 - 10936.88 Builder introduced last year patterns 10937.32 - 10938.92 are a major component of the Gutenberg 10939.48 - 10941.88 road map they can be as simple as single 10942.24 - 10944.56 blocks or as complex as a full page 10945.72 - 10952.12 [Music] 10949 - 10951.32 layout the selection tool is optimized 10952.12 - 10953.16 for navigating through the block 10953.48 - 10956.04 structure it shows the name icon and 10956.24 - 10957.88 outlines of the block as you hover and 10958.04 - 10962.24 move 10959.44 - 10961.6 around an improvement worth highlighting 10962.24 - 10964.36 is when a block is n Ed its parent 10964.72 - 10966.4 container will always show up to the 10966.56 - 10969.04 left of the toolbar this outline is also 10969.4 - 10971.28 present for parent blocks making it 10971.52 - 10972.8 easier to reason what the block 10973.12 - 10975.24 boundaries are and allowing changes you 10975.4 - 10977.84 want to do several improvements have 10978 - 10979.88 been made to drag interactions across 10980.24 - 10982.16 the board which includes dragging media 10982.76 - 10984.8 inside any container blocks or patterns 10985.8 - 10987.52 and speaking of design tools inline 10988.16 - 10989.96 cropping is a major feature that allows 10990.4 - 10992.6 quick customizations without leaving the 10992.72 - 10993.12 editor canvas 10994.56 - 10996.52 that one's so cool we're constantly 10997.04 - 10999.08 exploring ways to surface relevant block 10999.64 - 11001.8 Transformations two quick examples are 11002.44 - 11004.56 adding an overlay text to an image block 11005.28 - 11006.96 which transforms the image block into a 11007.12 - 11009.72 cover and adding pattern controls that 11009.84 - 11011.68 show These overlaid Bars as you interact 11012.16 - 11012.32 with the 11016.16 - 11018.8 control there are multiple ways to move 11019.08 - 11022.08 blocks around a great feature is the 11022.2 - 11024.2 ability to copy or or cut an entire 11024.64 - 11027.2 block to paste it somewhere else it's as 11027.44 - 11029.52 simple as focusing a block and pressing 11029.92 - 11032.6 command X the selection tool highlighted 11033.04 - 11034.96 earlier incorporates drag and drop as 11035.12 - 11036.64 well and there are more improvements 11037.28 - 11037.88 planned for these 11039.84 - 11042.56 features the inserter panel now also 11042.88 - 11045.16 supports drag and drop to insert blocks 11045.68 - 11046.84 and patterns in specific 11050.32 - 11052.4 places let's now get into transforms 11054.12 - 11056.2 transforms are so important that we have 11056.52 - 11058.36 Incorporated live previews for every 11058.64 - 11060.92 transform Target so you can check what 11061.08 - 11062.64 each one does before changing your 11063.16 - 11065.24 content they also work with multiblock 11066.08 - 11068.36 selection and are contextual to what are 11068.52 - 11070.72 the most relevant targets for the blocks 11071.72 - 11073.44 you can convert a group of blocks into 11073.84 - 11075.84 columns or if the text is short enough 11076.44 - 11079 into a row of buttons it works just as 11079.2 - 11080.92 well with other blog types like images 11081.52 - 11084.2 to make a gallery or slide show an 11084.36 - 11086.2 upcoming update will integrate patterns 11086.64 - 11088 with block creation and transforms 11089 - 11091.08 allowing to choose a specific pattern as 11091.16 - 11093.2 a starting point for a specific block 11093.72 - 11096.48 directly in the canvas one of our major 11096.92 - 11098.88 focuses is expanding the set of design 11099.32 - 11101.36 tools to be able to power all the things 11101.64 - 11103 we want to do with themes and 11104.16 - 11106.12 patterns let's now take a look at the 11106.24 - 11109.32 cover block it is now possible to drag 11109.6 - 11111.32 an image to set it as the background 11112.28 - 11116.52 directly 11114.24 - 11116.4 it's also possible to drag an image and 11116.52 - 11118.64 set it as a child block so you can get 11118.84 - 11120.96 some cool Effects by manipulating Focus 11121.84 - 11123.04 overlay gradient and 11125.08 - 11127.16 padding it's several tools coming 11127.6 - 11129.4 together the results can also be 11129.68 - 11131.56 packaged as a pattern so there are one 11131.8 - 11132.96 click away from being widely 11135.76 - 11137.84 accessible this was just a glimpse of 11138.04 - 11139.8 what's going on into the block editor 11140.4 - 11142.28 let's now take a look at what's next 11144.32 - 11146.12 one feature we're looking forward to are 11146.4 - 11147.16 Duo te image 11148.36 - 11150.84 filters if you imagine a grayscale image 11151.36 - 11152.96 where the Shades of Gray are replaced 11153.48 - 11154.8 with a color gradient of your choice 11155.64 - 11155.88 that's dual 11157.48 - 11160 tone the navigation block is becoming 11160.48 - 11162.52 more and more robust with more options 11163.08 - 11164.2 and child blocks to choose 11166 - 11168.92 from it's list view allows seeing the 11169.08 - 11170.32 menu structure from a different 11170.8 - 11172.88 perspective useful for handling multi 11173.24 - 11173.72 mple nested 11176.64 - 11179.16 submenus more customization options are 11179.4 - 11181.44 available to entirely change how the 11181.6 - 11184.24 navigation 11185.28 - 11187.8 looks features like automatic collapse 11188.24 - 11190.44 into an icon menu with an overlay on 11190.72 - 11195.32 smaller 11192.14 - 11195.32 [Music] 11196.96 - 11199.2 viewports changing the template of a 11199.48 - 11201.92 page or post is also going to be deeply 11202.36 - 11203.04 integrated with it 11204.32 - 11206.68 editor the fullsite editor is also 11207 - 11209.12 helping improve the list view browser to 11209.32 - 11211.16 get a better sense of how blocks are 11211.28 - 11214.04 laid out on a page When selecting a 11214.28 - 11216.76 parent group or a template part you can 11217.04 - 11219.28 also get an easier overview of all its 11220.52 - 11223.4 children and last but not least a new 11223.64 - 11226.24 Global Styles design is also coming it 11226.44 - 11228.36 streamlines changing how elements and 11228.6 - 11231.64 blocks look across the site these 11231.84 - 11233.52 improvements are crucial as the block 11233.84 - 11235.36 editor gets ready to become a site 11236.28 - 11237.52 builder thanks for 11238.13 - 11242.56 [Music] 11240.72 - 11245.92 watching 11242.56 - 11245.68 woohoo congratulations like that's a lot 11245.92 - 11247.52 like you said it's a lot that's happened 11248.52 - 11251.24 and for me um among a few other things 11251.44 - 11253.56 that happened 2020 was a year that 11253.88 - 11257 really felt like uh people started to 11257.16 - 11258.52 see you know the vision of Gutenberg 11259.04 - 11261.04 from four or five years ago when it was 11261.24 - 11262.92 very abstract and they saw it as kind of 11263 - 11265.64 like the the old wizzywig editor with 11265.88 - 11267.92 some extra lines on it or something and 11268.08 - 11270.6 really transformed where if the first 11271.2 - 11273.84 call it 17 18 years of Wordpress kind of 11274.4 - 11275.88 democratized people putting text in a 11276.24 - 11278.52 box now we're democratizing design 11278.96 - 11280.6 allowing people to control the boxes and 11280.76 - 11281 that's pretty 11282.16 - 11284.4 exciting yeah yeah I think I think 11284.8 - 11286.64 patterns have been transformative even 11286.84 - 11289.72 in the like when perhaps it was like a 11289.84 - 11291.24 smaller part of the road map initially 11291.76 - 11293.12 like it's becoming more of a Central 11293.64 - 11295.8 piece um especially because it allows 11296.16 - 11298.04 that kind of thing like to make to have 11298.24 - 11300.2 like worldclass designers provide the 11300.44 - 11303 starting points for users and and users 11303.4 - 11305.32 getting to like learn the sign by just 11305.6 - 11307.04 interacting with things I think that can 11307.24 - 11309.32 be extremely powerful and something that 11309.48 - 11311.84 really speaks to well even like from a 11312 - 11313.48 personal perspective what WordPress has 11313.6 - 11315.76 done for me like I I began by tinkering 11316.28 - 11319.04 on themes and such and and I think we 11319.24 - 11321.16 we're getting into a chapter where 11321.72 - 11323.36 people will be able to think ER with 11323.6 - 11326.32 things that used to require were sort of 11326.52 - 11328.28 hidden for you in WordPress like more 11328.52 - 11330.44 advanced things like queries and loops 11330.88 - 11332.96 and stuff like that um that we can now 11333.28 - 11335.48 expose through blogs and they are more 11335.72 - 11337.12 advanced than your regular like 11337.56 - 11339.88 paragraph or heading uh but they can be 11340.04 - 11342.2 stepping stones for people to to learn 11342.88 - 11344.44 how to work with WordPress in in many 11344.68 - 11346.68 ways so I'm very excited about that sort 11346.96 - 11347.4 of next 11348.28 - 11350.48 chapter things that just a few years ago 11350.96 - 11351.88 two or three years ago would have 11352.08 - 11353.72 required a pretty experienced WordPress 11354.2 - 11356.6 developer to do like let's say creating 11356.92 - 11358.68 a homepage with a column that shows five 11358.88 - 11360.52 posts from the most recent from a 11360.72 - 11362.76 particular category another column that 11362.92 - 11365.04 shows you know a featured latest post in 11365.12 - 11366.72 a different category you can now just do 11366.92 - 11369.68 with a few clicks like it's no code it's 11369.88 - 11372.4 it's like it's spaning the layers of um 11373.04 - 11374.68 of accessibility for for what people are 11374.84 - 11376.68 able to accomplish with WordPress and 11376.96 - 11378.64 that to me is very very core to our 11378.84 - 11382.44 mission because um before the content 11382.8 - 11383.68 that that you were able to control with 11383.84 - 11385.16 WordPress was very limited like I said 11385.32 - 11388.28 it was very inside the box and with with 11388.4 - 11389.96 fulls side editing especially you'll be 11390.08 - 11392.16 able to control the entire site and 11392.72 - 11395.8 really make it your own uh you mentioned 11396.12 - 11397.44 design I love seeing at the end of that 11397.56 - 11399.04 video we talked about the was got two 11399.2 - 11400.48 images on top of each other the same 11400.68 - 11403.08 image one's blurred that's such a cool 11403.36 - 11404.76 design trick like I want to do that for 11404.96 - 11407.48 all my images it's a pretty neat thing 11408.2 - 11410.6 yeah but I do see you know I've I've 11410.72 - 11411.72 gone through a lot of demos recently 11412.24 - 11415.16 where you can if you know Gutenberg it's 11415.88 - 11418.4 um as valuable a skill as knowing how to 11418.56 - 11420.12 write WordPress themes was maybe five 11420.28 - 11421.64 years ago because you can build 11421.92 - 11423.8 something really quickly that looks 11424.12 - 11425.76 really good and then pass it off to 11425.92 - 11427.32 someone who can easily edit it and 11427.48 - 11430.36 update it but you do kind of have to 11430.52 - 11432.92 know understand how blocks work and the 11433.08 - 11436.2 thing that you know there's the the 11436.36 - 11437.92 hierarchy of the selector in the bottom 11438.24 - 11439.44 left that kind of shows how everything's 11440.2 - 11442.92 working and like knowing how to play 11443.08 - 11445.56 with columns and spacers I think it's so 11445.72 - 11446.44 funny that spacers are 11447.72 - 11450.16 back we've recreated the spacer gift and 11450.4 - 11454.08 and uh in CSS and such but but patterns 11455.08 - 11457.64 can teach that you know and I feel like 11457.92 - 11459.84 every single pattern is potentially a 11459.96 - 11462.28 gateway to understanding something deep 11462.56 - 11464.4 about the structure of the web in a way 11464.64 - 11467.2 that allows you to to wield it right 11467.92 - 11469.6 like so often we people look at websites 11470.04 - 11471.48 like magic but when you start to 11471.8 - 11473.16 understand Gutenberg you can look at 11473.32 - 11475 websites as something that you can 11475.48 - 11475.88 understand and build 11476.76 - 11479.6 yourself yeah yeah and and I think that 11479.8 - 11481.8 that's also one of the powerful things 11482.08 - 11484.2 about blogs is that the more we can 11484.44 - 11486.16 refine the more that we can help people 11486.8 - 11488.24 understand how they work now that like 11488.4 - 11489.8 it becomes they can apply that across 11490.08 - 11491.8 their enter side they can understand how 11491.92 - 11493.44 to deal with menus they can understand 11493.64 - 11495.4 how to create these things so it's it's 11495.56 - 11497.6 sort of like a a virtuous feedback loop 11497.88 - 11500 where the more we refine that all themes 11500.44 - 11501.88 benefit all the interactions benefit 11502.28 - 11504.56 third party blocks benefit and so that's 11504.76 - 11505.92 what like the least view I'm very 11506.12 - 11507.4 excited about introducing that one 11507.68 - 11509.6 because the like patterns are already 11510.08 - 11512.28 complex in nested blogs and columns and 11512.44 - 11515.12 so on and it's a good way to like start 11515.36 - 11516.96 to make sense of what's going on and 11517.08 - 11518.72 then see like oh the designer did this 11518.92 - 11520.48 for that reason and you start sort of to 11520.96 - 11522.36 understand how the the blocks interact 11523 - 11525.56 with each other um so that that that's 11525.72 - 11528 one of the ways to help uh communicate 11528.56 - 11531.2 what's going on I think in addition to 11531.48 - 11532.72 introducing all these design Primitives 11533.4 - 11534.52 right things that you can use to build 11535 - 11537.56 pretty much any web page um the other 11537.8 - 11540.04 underappreciated aspect is just how many 11541.04 - 11544.6 bug 11541.96 - 11543.96 fixes around like subtle editor 11544.6 - 11546.4 interactions and cursor interactions and 11546.6 - 11548.08 copy and paste from pretty much anything 11548.8 - 11551.52 including Google Docs quip notion other 11551.76 - 11555.28 web pages um as has gone into the sort 11555.44 - 11556.68 of Relentless iteration of Gutenberg 11557.16 - 11559.08 over the past four or five years and 11559.2 - 11561.36 that's the number one thing like um 11561.56 - 11563.12 whenever anyone's like oh oh building 11563.44 - 11564.2 editor can't be that 11565.04 - 11567.04 hard like there all these interactions 11567.84 - 11569.52 like I think that the Transformer is a 11569.64 - 11571.52 really good version of that like let's 11571.76 - 11573.48 select an arbitrary number of blocks and 11573.6 - 11574.76 then do something to them as a group 11575.68 - 11577.04 yeah and my one of my favorites is 11577.2 - 11578.28 actually selecting a bunch of paragraphs 11578.68 - 11581.72 turn the buttons like that's like so 11582.04 - 11583.56 cool but also counterintuitive but also 11583.8 - 11586.72 why not you know yeah yeah and and this 11586.84 - 11588.56 can be contextual like that feature like 11588.72 - 11590.56 if your paragraphs are too long we don't 11590.8 - 11592.2 show you buttons because it doesn't make 11592.36 - 11594.2 sense to transform like really long 11594.48 - 11596.4 paragraphs but the I think we're like 11596.76 - 11598.4 barely scratching the surface of what 11598.56 - 11600.48 these transforms can do um we're 11600.72 - 11602.44 introducing now transforms or patterns 11602.84 - 11604.84 so you can select a bunch of blocks and 11605.04 - 11607.16 transer them to maybe a suitable pattern 11607.6 - 11609.2 that deals with those blocks in a 11609.36 - 11611.8 certain way um so that would open up so 11611.96 - 11613.24 you don't need to start with a pattern 11613.52 - 11615.32 you can start with your own content and 11615.52 - 11616.72 end up in something that's nicely 11617.16 - 11619.28 designed um I think that's going to be 11619.52 - 11620.96 really really interesting to see what 11621.12 - 11621.72 people do with that 11623.12 - 11624.4 it's funny because when people try to 11624.6 - 11626.04 copy WordPress I always think they copy 11626.36 - 11628.08 the wrong things like they're like oh 11628.76 - 11630.76 let's uh let's you know copy the plug-in 11631.08 - 11633.6 system or whatever but um but let's make 11633.72 - 11635.04 it objectoriented and they miss that 11635.2 - 11636.52 part of the beauty of why WordPress has 11636.64 - 11638.16 been so successful is what I call 11638.52 - 11640.36 context or context oriented programming 11641.16 - 11642.64 the idea of hooks and filters being like 11643 - 11644.48 a very intuitive and Powerful way to 11644.64 - 11647.72 extend a program um I feel like with 11648 - 11649.24 Gutenberg we're getting to finally where 11649.4 - 11651.04 there's like context oriented editing 11651.92 - 11653.48 right because context of any block and 11653.64 - 11655.68 what you put into it then can then be 11656.68 - 11659.44 that Gutenberg can be aware of that and 11659.6 - 11663.72 intelligently 11660.84 - 11663.04 suggest what's what you could do with it 11663.72 - 11664.96 if we were if we were a commercial 11665.4 - 11666.56 company with a marketing department we'd 11666.76 - 11667.08 probably call it 11668.28 - 11670.64 AI competitors do but it's really just 11671.24 - 11673.48 intelligent um intelligent contextual 11675.28 - 11677.64 awareness yeah and and that's also it's 11677.8 - 11679.84 a way to also organize the growing 11680.32 - 11682.04 collection of tools and blogs that we 11682.16 - 11683.64 have like like and now we're introducing 11684.36 - 11687.52 like 10 to 20 new blogs related to to 11687.64 - 11690.2 site editing so it's if if this is if 11690.36 - 11692.08 this doesn't become contextual it also 11692.32 - 11694.44 becomes overwhelming so it's it it also 11694.72 - 11696.04 benefits the the enter experience 11696.84 - 11697.4 Discovery and so 11698.12 - 11700.16 on how would you suggest because there's 11700.36 - 11701.44 probably a lot of people watching this 11701.64 - 11702.96 that are excited about gudenberg but not 11703.12 - 11704.56 sure where to get started so how would 11704.72 - 11706.8 you suggest someone really become 11707.2 - 11710.32 Gutenberg 11708.28 - 11712.72 fluent 11710.32 - 11712.52 H that's that's a good question because 11712.72 - 11713.92 I I think there there's so many 11714.2 - 11715.64 different paths that people can take 11715.92 - 11717.64 based on on what they like I think 11717.96 - 11720.08 patterns are really a cool place to 11720.28 - 11722.2 start if you're um I don't know a 11722.36 - 11724.4 designer or someone that likes to um 11725.2 - 11727.88 play with a play with how blocks can fit 11728.16 - 11729.56 with each other because it's a very low 11729.92 - 11732.12 friction way to start working on and 11732.52 - 11734.64 we're releasing the pattern directory uh 11734.76 - 11737.2 now with 5.8 as well so you could you 11737.28 - 11739.08 will be able to like create these small 11739.44 - 11741.08 design things and just share them with 11741.2 - 11743.2 the world in the pattern directory um 11743.68 - 11745.12 that's a cool way to start seeing also 11745.36 - 11747.08 the limitations of blocks because maybe 11747.64 - 11749.6 you run into like oh I really want to do 11749.88 - 11752 like achieve this design and I don't 11752.2 - 11753.84 have the tool so maybe that leads to 11754.16 - 11755.88 opening an issue in the repository that 11756.32 - 11758.12 like I'm lacking this tool to make this 11758.36 - 11760.52 design that I want to do um and that can 11760.68 - 11761.96 lead to maybe you want to start 11762.24 - 11764.28 implementing that tool yourself and that 11764.44 - 11766 can be like a feedback loop that helps 11767 - 11769.08 um push the whole ecosystem forward 11769.56 - 11770.96 because the like we don't want to create 11771.28 - 11772.96 design tools in the abstract we want 11773.16 - 11775.88 them to really unlock like great design 11776.48 - 11778.6 on the web so it's important to have 11778.88 - 11780.2 those those touch bones I 11780.96 - 11783.32 think and it's okay as well like I 11783.48 - 11785.08 mostly use gurg just with a paragraph 11785.52 - 11786.96 block and sometimes some YouTube and 11787.08 - 11788.96 images like that's that's very much like 11789.24 - 11792.28 the the the old editor but I think what 11792.44 - 11794.52 I'd recommend for people is to if you 11794.6 - 11795.96 can get like two screens or something 11796.4 - 11798.76 like put a website or a design you think 11798.88 - 11800.6 is cool on one and then have Gutenberg 11801.08 - 11802.32 in the other and just practice 11802.64 - 11804.64 recreating it and particular if you know 11804.76 - 11806.6 how to use inspect elements and like 11806.8 - 11809.24 Chrome or Firefox or something um to 11809.44 - 11811.76 kind of see what that site is doing yeah 11811.88 - 11813.68 you can then start to mentally map what 11814.32 - 11816.28 looks like divs or sections or or HTML 11816.8 - 11818.4 colors or images on one and then bring 11818.6 - 11820.88 that over to Gutenberg and it can be um 11821.88 - 11824.2 that's I think it's kind of like uh in 11824.4 - 11825.2 music often you 11825.92 - 11827.84 transcribe um in jazz you transcribe 11828.4 - 11830 famous solos from like Sunny Rollins or 11830.16 - 11832.44 John col train not because you're to get 11832.52 - 11833.68 on stage and play exactly what they 11833.84 - 11835.6 played but because by kind of breaking 11835.96 - 11837.96 down what they did you then learn how to 11838.12 - 11839.88 create your own thing and so I think 11840.04 - 11841.52 that's sort of transcription process if 11841.64 - 11842.96 you can transcribe existing websites 11843.72 - 11845.72 you'll learn what the designer was 11845.92 - 11847.76 thinking why things are spaced a certain 11848.04 - 11850.2 way how typography interacts and how 11850.36 - 11852.04 colors interact and then you'll just 11852.32 - 11853.88 internalize those lessons and then when 11854 - 11855.4 you're when you're on stage creating 11855.72 - 11858.04 Your Own Thing improvising or or writing 11858.32 - 11860.12 your own music creating your own website 11861 - 11862.4 you'll be able to have all those tools 11862.64 - 11866.8 at your uh at your command yeah yeah and 11867.12 - 11870.16 I think also it's if people can it's fun 11870.36 - 11871.64 to just play with it like the example 11872.08 - 11873.84 with the image within the image like for 11874.04 - 11875.64 the video like it just happened by 11875.88 - 11877.52 accident I was like playing around and 11877.88 - 11879.4 it looked cool so it's like it's 11879.56 - 11881.2 something that you can sort of emphasize 11881.68 - 11883.36 there's a lot of things that just come 11883.84 - 11885.2 together by all the work that people 11885.52 - 11888.16 have put here that um I think is just 11888.32 - 11891.28 fun to play with yeah I think we have 11891.44 - 11894.16 some questions coming in that we can get 11894.4 - 11899.08 to um well there was one by Philip go 11899.44 - 11902.08 ahead yeah Philip BR that asked if the 11902.28 - 11903.8 presentation video can be seen elsewhere 11904.6 - 11907.28 um yeah I think I think we can we will 11907.56 - 11909.72 up uh upload this to YouTube uh 11909.92 - 11912.16 afterwards so that people can watch it 11912.32 - 11913.64 in higher quality and at their own 11913.84 - 11917.96 Leisure 11915.44 - 11917.68 um there's another question for you Matt 11917.96 - 11921.28 from Carmen um who says Dear Matt will 11921.48 - 11922.52 there be a member membership integration 11923 - 11924.72 in the core of Wordpress within the near 11925 - 11927.84 future or sooner or later or do you not 11928.12 - 11931.12 think about at all I for myself would 11931.4 - 11933.48 very glad would be very glad about a 11933.6 - 11934.48 membership system within 11935.44 - 11938.2 core H that's a good question also 11938.48 - 11941.12 because it covers so much of of what 11941.28 - 11942.8 could possibly be in core WordPress and 11942.92 - 11944.52 why we put something in core versus not 11945.52 - 11946.96 um personally I would draw the line for 11947.24 - 11949.48 membership e-commerce that side as 11949.64 - 11951.28 plug-in territory um 11952.64 - 11954.76 even though you know it is very popular 11955.24 - 11957.44 very in demand um I saw a question the 11957.56 - 11959.04 other day where someone was like why is 11959.2 - 11960.4 Gutenberg in core why is full sight 11960.6 - 11962.6 editing core It's really because what 11962.68 - 11964.4 we're doing is is trying to create the 11964.64 - 11966.88 framework on which everything else can 11967.04 - 11971.08 be built so um if you imagine almost 11971.36 - 11973.96 like a a periodic table of of website 11974.48 - 11976.88 design you know the elements are 11977.28 - 11978.84 Gutenberg blocks that would actually be 11978.96 - 11980.2 kind of a fun display of Gutenberg 11980.64 - 11983.4 blocks if we can do that and uh and that 11983.52 - 11984.88 allows you to create literally any 11985.12 - 11986.76 matter in the world right anything you 11986.88 - 11988.08 can imagine could be built from these 11988.24 - 11989.88 blocks so if we don't think something is 11990.08 - 11991.36 like one of those fundamental elements 11992.36 - 11995.04 um it's probably better to to St and 11995.16 - 11998.24 plug in our theme territory um then 11998.6 - 12000.52 versus you know being something that 12000.76 - 12003.16 that we're putting into core and you 12003.28 - 12005.6 know taking on the responsibility to to 12005.72 - 12007.6 maintain kind of forever because core 12007.92 - 12009.96 always keeps backwards compil at least 12010.16 - 12011.4 has for the first 18 years of Wordpress 12014.8 - 12017.44 yeah cool we we we have another 12017.92 - 12021.64 questions um from um Matias like 12022.28 - 12025.72 actually uh says if we fetch data via WP 12026.16 - 12028.32 rest API how can we get the cool effects 12028.6 - 12030.56 from Gutenberg is there a simple way to 12030.76 - 12030.96 get these 12034.8 - 12037.84 Styles I can probably answer that one uh 12038.6 - 12041.28 so um again all the content from guten 12041.76 - 12044.48 is stored in in the same way that 12044.64 - 12046.6 WordPress has store content for ages so 12046.76 - 12048.88 you get the same kind of things through 12049.16 - 12050.8 the through the rest API that's what has 12050.96 - 12052.04 allowed us to roll this out 12052.88 - 12054.64 incrementally in a way without breaking 12055.12 - 12056.6 anything or breaking plugins or anything 12056.84 - 12059.52 that interacts with a front um there are 12059.8 - 12062.32 some some things that um that could 12062.52 - 12064.44 become a lot more powerful um like 12064.6 - 12066.08 thinking about like the dual tone effect 12066.56 - 12068.2 like that because do the doal tone 12068.44 - 12070.2 Effect one of the cool things and that's 12070.52 - 12071.6 that's a feature that's going to be in 12071.92 - 12075.36 5.8 um is that it's non destructive so 12075.56 - 12077.12 it applies to images in a way that 12077.24 - 12079.72 doesn't change your original one um so 12079.96 - 12081.4 you could get those instructions through 12081.6 - 12083.44 the rest API if you want to I don't know 12083.6 - 12086.24 do a different presentation on um I 12086.32 - 12088.8 don't know for a Twitter embed or RSS or 12089 - 12092.88 whatever um so yeah in in short all of 12093.04 - 12094.08 these things should be getting through 12094.68 - 12096.32 the rest API and there and then there 12096.44 - 12099.68 are ways to interact with blogs um with 12099.92 - 12100.84 specific tools 12102.76 - 12106.88 good 12104.16 - 12106.48 answer we we have another one about the 12106.88 - 12109.44 about the video from Roberto um who says 12110.2 - 12112.16 uh it's a very cool video but how is the 12112.36 - 12113.8 accessibility on all of these new 12114.08 - 12117.08 features uh is this easy to use uh using 12117.4 - 12120.12 the keyboard for example um that's a 12120.28 - 12122.88 great question um and to me this speaks 12123.2 - 12125.48 to the to how like all the refinements 12126.24 - 12127.92 we do to blogs and the infrastructure 12128.56 - 12130.84 and the editor they just benef they just 12131.12 - 12133.48 Cascade down to everything else we do um 12134.04 - 12136.72 so for example the the ability to to 12137 - 12138.72 navigate to use the select tool to move 12139 - 12141.32 between blocks just jump one block at a 12141.52 - 12143.52 time that's something that was work on 12143.72 - 12145.64 over the last year and is available for 12146 - 12147.68 any pattern any third party block that 12147.92 - 12150.28 uses um that uses Gutenberg gets these 12150.44 - 12153.48 sort of benefits um the same way that um 12154.48 - 12155.96 there are some settings that are that 12156.08 - 12159.44 allow you to for example toggle all the 12159.6 - 12162.76 buttons to become just text based um and 12162.88 - 12164.32 you can do that and it just works across 12164.64 - 12166.2 all blogs and across all these features 12166.68 - 12168.72 so we're thinking about accessibility in 12168.84 - 12170.96 a sort of fundamental way like the more 12171.2 - 12174.16 that we can bake into the fabric of the 12174.32 - 12177.2 editor and the fabric of blocks the more 12177.48 - 12179.88 that we can ensure um people do the 12180.08 - 12181.88 right thing um and they don't need to 12182.52 - 12183.48 like we don't want people because 12183.8 - 12185.84 accessibility is hard um it's hard to 12186 - 12188.12 get right and we don't want we don't 12188.32 - 12189.76 want to have like different 12190.32 - 12192.52 implementations and interpret ation on 12192.72 - 12195 blog so it's important that we take the 12195.2 - 12197.6 time and do things right um there's a 12197.84 - 12200.24 pretty cool uh group of people that are 12200.68 - 12202.48 testing all the accessibility features 12202.84 - 12205.2 on an ongoing basis so it continues to 12205.4 - 12207.96 get better uh at a at a pretty good rate 12208.56 - 12210.32 um and some some things are challenging 12210.96 - 12212.36 like some things are really like they 12212.52 - 12214.92 need a lot of thinking a lot of care put 12215.16 - 12216.92 into them uh to ensure we do the right 12217.12 - 12219.6 thing um but but look forward to tools 12219.92 - 12222.36 like the least view to allow um certain 12222.84 - 12224.8 things that um again we're thinking 12225.12 - 12227.12 about you can use the arrow keys to 12227.32 - 12228.92 navigate across the least view sh like 12229.08 - 12231.12 using down and bottom arrow and so on 12231.44 - 12234.12 and so it's almost all the features like 12234.52 - 12235.28 are thought from that 12236.84 - 12239.24 perspective yeah I truly believe that 12240.04 - 12241.48 Gooden BG's had more accessibility work 12241.76 - 12243.56 than any other editor attempting a 12243.72 - 12245.24 similar thing like if you look at the 12245.36 - 12247.28 Squarespace editor the Wix editor all of 12247.44 - 12249.4 them they're not I would say they're 12249.64 - 12251.4 accessibility accessibility is much much 12251.8 - 12252.2 much worse than 12255.72 - 12258.76 goodg cool we're running a bit short on 12259.04 - 12260.6 time let's see if we can cover a few 12260.8 - 12265.48 other 12262 - 12265.08 questions um Oscar is asking um 12265.48 - 12267.08 woocommerce and other plugins that make 12267.24 - 12269.04 a heavy use of meta field panels are 12269.24 - 12271 still using the classic interface as 12271.16 - 12272.68 there is not an easy and appropriate way 12272.84 - 12274.68 to convert them to use the new interface 12275.64 - 12277.28 the Cyber is too narrow to feed all the 12277.44 - 12279.28 meta fields are there any plans about 12280.56 - 12284.48 this that that's a great question yeah I 12284.64 - 12286.76 I would say that sidebars like if you're 12286.92 - 12288.2 thinking of meta as things that need to 12288.32 - 12289.28 go into sidebar maybe you're thinking 12289.6 - 12291.72 about them incorrectly like the whole 12291.84 - 12293.16 idea of Gutenberg is you can bring all 12293.36 - 12295.72 that into the the main editing window 12296.72 - 12299.24 and so yes it requires uh maybe 12299.52 - 12302.24 rethinking things sometimes but it it is 12302.44 - 12303.8 rethinking them in a way that can be so 12303.96 - 12305.52 much more powerful there's nothing that 12305.68 - 12307.08 says by the way that everything in the 12307.16 - 12308.68 main grenberg editor has to be shown to 12308.84 - 12310.76 the user it could be an interface that 12310.96 - 12313.08 allows for inputting other things yeah 12313.96 - 12315.76 yeah and and blogs have support for meta 12316.12 - 12318.44 fields that so that you can and even 12318.72 - 12320.72 woocommerce is I I encourage you to 12320.92 - 12322.04 check some of the work they are doing 12322.28 - 12324.24 with blogs because it's pretty cool um 12324.76 - 12326.64 like they're converting the cart and and 12326.8 - 12329 shopping list to to blog so that you can 12329.16 - 12331.8 see some examples of how uh people are 12332 - 12334.44 handling that um I think like the other 12334.68 - 12336.48 thing maybe worth highlighting there is 12336.56 - 12337.8 that we're doing a lot of work to bring 12338 - 12339.64 in blocks into some of those other 12339.96 - 12342 interfaces like which wigets for example 12342.36 - 12344.4 in 5.8 you'll be able to insert blocks 12345.12 - 12347.64 on regular widget areas that's that's 12347.84 - 12349.96 another way of like bridging sort of the 12350.12 - 12352.28 old the classic world and where blocks 12352.6 - 12354.6 are heading without you having to do any 12354.8 - 12357.52 changes um so those things I think are 12357.92 - 12359.64 are going to be pretty cool uh to 12359.84 - 12360.36 integrate with different 12362.68 - 12365.32 themes yeah I I think that meta becoming 12366.32 - 12369.44 part of the thing it's meta it's meta 12369.84 - 12372.08 about is actually a powerful concept 12373.08 - 12375 that uh will make WordPress and the 12375.36 - 12376.84 plugins that send it much easier to 12377.24 - 12378.16 understand for people working with 12380.12 - 12382.36 it all right I think we're hting about 12382.76 - 12385.16 time for me to bow out uh I think there 12385.28 - 12386.44 are a few other questions that will 12386.72 - 12388.16 gather them together and answer them on 12388.84 - 12392.12 ma. perhaps um yeah I I'll put up a open 12392.4 - 12394.68 thread and so if you have something we 12394.8 - 12395.92 weren't able to get to in this section 12396.92 - 12398.6 um just go over leave a comment on M.T 12399.6 - 12402.16 and Matias myself Joseph uh we're do our 12402.32 - 12403.96 best to answer all of them and by the 12404.08 - 12407 way it's fun to comment on blogs so we 12407.12 - 12409.56 can kind of have that uh nostalgic fun 12410.24 - 12412.84 of having a a vigorous blog comment 12413.72 - 12416.68 discussion yeah awesome thank you Matt 12417.12 - 12419.08 it's been a pleasure uh thank you 12430.32 - 12433.32 Matias 12440.32 - 12443.48 hello howdy howdy how's it going I don't 12443.68 - 12445.56 think we have a formal intro so we're 12445.76 - 12447.12 just gonna have to run with it I guess 12448.04 - 12450.92 uh Matt Mullen wag how's it going I 12451 - 12453.68 think a good intro would be to say what 12453.84 - 12455.88 the historic nature of us connecting 12456.32 - 12458.64 again to where Camp Europe is yeah this 12458.8 - 12460.76 is uh roughly the fiveyear anniversary 12461.64 - 12464.12 of the last time uh we spoke at word 12464.36 - 12465.56 Camp Europe together and we did an 12465.72 - 12468.16 interview that uh I've listened back to 12468.32 - 12470.2 a couple times since then uh as recently 12470.64 - 12472.52 as this morning and I think uh in many 12472.76 - 12476.12 ways the theme uh carried over pretty 12476.68 - 12481.68 well um and I uh am excited to talk to 12481.84 - 12484.28 you today a bit of my a swan song in 12484.44 - 12487.64 terms of uh my days as an analyst in the 12487.76 - 12489.96 WordPress space but for people who um 12490.2 - 12491.84 don't know me my name is ran krogg guard 12492.2 - 12494.68 and I uh was formerly the editor of a 12494.8 - 12496.6 community website called post status for 12497.12 - 12499.44 which Matt has graciously given a lot of 12499.52 - 12502 his time and energy over the years to uh 12502.12 - 12503.68 interacting with and giving me the 12503.76 - 12505.28 opportunity to interview interview you 12505.48 - 12507.6 several times um and I don't know what 12507.76 - 12509.12 the format would be for me interviewing 12509.68 - 12512.12 you after this uh in a WordPress context 12512.84 - 12514.52 so I'm privileged to be here today with 12514.68 - 12516.84 you well we talked a lot about crypto at 12517 - 12518.44 that one so maybe we'll do a crypto 12519.32 - 12522.04 sometime in the future yeah uh get you 12522.4 - 12523.6 uh get you on the crypto side of things 12523.8 - 12525.2 I know you've been interested in 12525.4 - 12526.88 blockchain for a long time and that's 12527.04 - 12528.88 not where I intended to start today but 12529 - 12531.32 I do think that there are some really 12531.8 - 12534.76 fabulous uh overlaps and I almost have a 12534.88 - 12537.08 sneak peek to where that ecosystem is 12537.36 - 12538.8 going where some of the battle lines 12539.16 - 12541.6 will be drawn because you see incentives 12542.4 - 12544.2 and you see open source software all 12544.4 - 12546.08 blending and coming together you see IP 12546.96 - 12549.84 involved um and we've we've seen some of 12550 - 12551.84 these conversations and of these uh 12552 - 12557.24 issues play out in in WordPress and um I 12557.4 - 12558.68 have to say in so many ways you've 12558.92 - 12561.12 navigated this space very well in a 12561.28 - 12563.16 unique role with the the benevolent 12563.76 - 12566.2 dictator for Life uh balance managing 12566.68 - 12568.52 both the open source project and then 12568.68 - 12570.44 your own commercial Enterprises uh 12570.56 - 12572.24 through all the various products that 12572.4 - 12574.8 automatic manages so kudos to you you've 12575.16 - 12577.12 uh you've laid some quality groundwork 12577.64 - 12578.8 that I think some people from that space 12579.2 - 12580.64 could look back on and and study 12582 - 12583.04 well I think what's excited about 12583.52 - 12585.88 cryptos as open source apply to money 12586.2 - 12587.52 and finance right and it's surprising 12588 - 12589 how many people don't actually know that 12589.2 - 12590.48 Bitcoin and ethereum are open source 12590.76 - 12592.24 projects yeah they have core developers 12592.72 - 12595.08 just like WordPress does and have have 12595.44 - 12596.76 vigorous arguments about what's in the 12596.88 - 12599.28 next versions and things like that so I 12599.36 - 12601.16 me to the extent that WordPress has been 12601.8 - 12603.08 successful in navigating these things 12603.28 - 12606.08 over the past 18 years I think we and I 12606.28 - 12608.36 learned a ton from previous open source 12608.72 - 12611.72 efforts including Linux can new projects 12612.16 - 12613.2 everything that you know WordPress 12613.64 - 12614.8 wasn't around to 2003 so there was 12615.24 - 12616.64 decades of Open Source before we came 12617.2 - 12619.24 around and then just keeping that 12619.48 - 12620.72 Community orientation through and 12620.88 - 12624.2 through uh even in my for-profit things 12624.6 - 12626.44 un automatic you know how do we put the 12626.52 - 12628.6 Community First how do we get back how 12628.68 - 12630.76 does fire for the future get created and 12631.08 - 12632.56 committed to by us and many other 12632.76 - 12634.36 companies in the space yeah and you're 12634.52 - 12635.8 digging straight into many of the things 12636 - 12639.24 that I wanted to discuss with you um and 12639.88 - 12642.4 the economic of Wordpress is certainly a 12642.56 - 12645.68 big one but I think at its core just 12645.92 - 12647.56 talking about open source software and 12647.72 - 12649.44 open source ecosystems you said a lot of 12649.52 - 12650.4 people don't know that those things are 12650.56 - 12651.96 open source a lot of people don't know 12652.12 - 12653.72 that WordPress is open source or they 12653.88 - 12655.36 still don't get wordpress.com versus 12655.68 - 12657.36 wordpress.org as much energy and effort 12657.6 - 12659.76 is going into it this isn't to like talk 12659.96 - 12661.6 about why that's the case but it's more 12661.88 - 12665 to discuss why you think perhaps our 12665.28 - 12667.32 society just assumes that 12667.6 - 12669.88 commercialization is Forefront in so 12670.04 - 12673.32 many of the things that go on whereas um 12673.56 - 12676.44 we see so many benefits for operating uh 12677.08 - 12678.8 in the open and using open source 12679.08 - 12680.96 software or public utilities for that 12681.12 - 12682.88 matter um so what are your what are your 12683.04 - 12684.72 thoughts on like why why does society 12685.16 - 12688.28 tend not to um both see the importance 12689.04 - 12691.12 of of things that are open in public 12693.32 - 12695.56 goods um can we blame 12697.4 - 12698.72 capitalism we might as 12699.76 - 12702.12 well the the the worst system except for 12702.28 - 12703.72 all the others or I don't know that's 12704.44 - 12707.16 right it I think that you know so much 12707.28 - 12710.8 of human history is in systems with 12711.08 - 12713.24 economics of scarcity you know it's zero 12713.56 - 12715.92 sum if I have the thing you don't have 12716.12 - 12718.6 the thing and as we've shifted to be 12718.8 - 12720.12 more and more technology enabled more 12720.24 - 12721.64 and more digital more and more online in 12721.76 - 12724.08 the metaverse we have Network effects 12724.6 - 12725.72 right this idea that the more someone 12726.08 - 12727.36 uses something the more something's used 12727.68 - 12729.32 actually the more valuable it gets tcpip 12730.32 - 12732.96 the internet Wikipedia WordPress and 12733.76 - 12735.36 these are what I like to call economics 12735.84 - 12739.16 of abundance meaning that that you're my 12739.4 - 12740.88 gaining value does not take away from 12741.04 - 12742.6 your gaining value in fact the more 12742.84 - 12744.16 value I get from using something like 12744.32 - 12745.76 WordPress the more value you also get 12746.52 - 12748.16 because it's part of this open ecosystem 12749.16 - 12751.4 and this is the best parts of actually 12751.96 - 12753.2 to get back to sort of like monetary 12753.72 - 12755.08 Theory and stuff like an expanding money 12755.32 - 12757.12 supply right and expanding population 12758.2 - 12760.52 which um we've had for most of human 12760.92 - 12762.64 history we'll stop having in the next 50 12762.96 - 12766.04 years but this idea that um there can be 12766.2 - 12767.92 more and more of something allows people 12768.12 - 12770 to focus not just on their size of the 12770.08 - 12772.36 pie but on growing the pie overall and 12772.68 - 12775.64 everyone can raise their their wealth 12775.96 - 12777.12 their standard of living the everything 12777.8 - 12779.12 together and I think that's really 12779.36 - 12781.76 powerful and you know software in 12781.92 - 12784.48 particular and enabled by the internet 12785.48 - 12787.4 of which you know access to it has has 12787.52 - 12789.6 fallen to be you know we almost consider 12789.88 - 12791.12 it like a basic human right now 12791.68 - 12793.72 alongside Water Shelter Etc it's like 12794.04 - 12795.48 access to communicate with the world and 12795.64 - 12797.24 the world's information feels very 12797.48 - 12798.8 fundamental to advancing in evolving 12799.44 - 12803.4 Humanity it um you know that's why I 12803.52 - 12805.36 think that something like WordPress has 12805.48 - 12807.72 to exist right like if we weren't doing 12807.96 - 12809.24 it I would contribute to whatever the 12809.4 - 12813.44 WordPress was because um if this web 12813.88 - 12817.24 thing is going to be the the connective 12818.08 - 12819.56 tissue and network of Humanity's 12820.08 - 12822.64 knowledge Evolution um driving the clock 12822.92 - 12824.36 cycles of how we learn and get better 12824.96 - 12827.96 together um I I think that basis needs 12828.16 - 12831.16 to be open source because it's too great 12831.44 - 12834.96 it's too powerful to um try to put in 12835.08 - 12837.2 the hands of any one company and so if 12837.32 - 12839.52 you can put it in an open source project 12840.4 - 12842.88 that gets you the best sides of kind of 12843 - 12843.88 everyone working on the same thing 12844.16 - 12845.72 together with the best sides of everyone 12846 - 12847.04 retaining their freedom and autonomy 12847.96 - 12849.32 right because it's literally built into 12849.56 - 12852.24 the Bill of Rights that every uh user of 12852.4 - 12853.92 Wordpress gets the open source license 12854.92 - 12858 says grants you freedoms yeah what do 12858.12 - 12859.4 you think are some of the great threats 12859.92 - 12861.84 to those Network effects that build over 12862.12 - 12863.48 time you know WordPress has build been 12863.64 - 12864.96 building these Network effects for 18 12865.44 - 12869.6 years now um and they do as the snowball 12870.24 - 12872.32 gets larger it rolls a little slower in 12872.44 - 12874.76 terms of each rotation is there a part 12875.2 - 12876.96 is there a place or is there are there 12877.24 - 12881.08 threats that can come together and um 12882.08 - 12884 and really be provide limits to those 12884.16 - 12885.84 Network effects what do you what do you 12885.96 - 12887.16 think are the threats to the network 12887.52 - 12887.96 effects of an open 12888.92 - 12893.92 system greed and selfishness right so in 12894.16 - 12895.48 in a system if a lot of people are 12895.72 - 12896.92 acting purely in their own 12897.68 - 12900.16 self-interest um and not thinking about 12900.56 - 12903.16 the health and growth of the commons you 12903.28 - 12905.08 know the core project of Wordpress the 12905.28 - 12907.2 ecosystem of free and open plugins and 12907.56 - 12910.08 themes um them optimizing for their 12910.2 - 12912.6 local maximum you know basically the 12912.8 - 12914.68 most imagine this is like let's say 12914.8 - 12915.92 there was a plugin that created 12916.68 - 12919.44 something that was like a killer feature 12919.72 - 12921.88 for WordPress and they decided to charge 12922.12 - 12924.28 $100 for it and so they built a really 12924.52 - 12927.24 awesome $5 million your business um 12928.08 - 12929.2 awesome for the people who built that 12929.36 - 12930.76 right they're making $5 million a year 12931.48 - 12932.8 but maybe that feature not being part of 12932.96 - 12934.84 core or not being open or not 12935.04 - 12937.4 collaborating with others um means that 12937.56 - 12938.96 it's never going to grow the way it 12939.08 - 12940.44 could it's never going to get that 12941.28 - 12943.36 provide more access to people who can't 12943.56 - 12945.16 afford to pay the $100 for that plugin 12946.16 - 12948.16 and um and ultimately if every single 12948.64 - 12950.92 thing in WordPress becomes sort of like 12951.08 - 12954.24 a a paid upgrade you know the 12954.44 - 12955.52 contribution will become quite 12956.04 - 12958.92 vulcanized and so that's why we have 12959.12 - 12960.6 this idea of five for the future for 12960.72 - 12961.68 those who don't know what that is it's 12961.88 - 12964.92 just basically saying like well you know 12965.92 - 12966.76 build what you want commercialize 12967.4 - 12969.2 everything make it propri whatever like 12970.04 - 12971.6 um commercialize things on top of word 12971.84 - 12973.12 bu but if you could take just 12974.08 - 12977.4 5% of whatever you're investing or doing 12977.72 - 12979.6 or getting from WordPress and put that 12979.8 - 12980.72 back into contributing to 12981.44 - 12984.28 core um we think that is enough to 12984.48 - 12985.96 actually ensure that the core stays 12986.96 - 12989.24 super super super healthy and can 12989.6 - 12991.04 provide a thriving environment for 12991.32 - 12993.96 everything within it to really um 12994.92 - 12998.16 flourish for for decades to come this is 12998.36 - 13000.56 kind of like a a voluntary contribution 13001.4 - 13002.64 what what a government might call a tax 13003.08 - 13004.56 right it's it's totally voluntary so 13004.64 - 13005.96 it's not a tax but like why do 13006.12 - 13008.2 governments have taxes well they say 13008.44 - 13010.08 that there certain things call it 13010.84 - 13012.68 security roads Health infrastructure 13013.56 - 13014.36 it's different in different countries 13015.24 - 13018.08 but that you know no no one company no 13018.24 - 13020.6 one person is going to build a a highway 13021 - 13022.56 system to connect an entire country or 13023.48 - 13025.72 but if we can all put a little into the 13025.88 - 13029.24 into the middle and you know have a 13029.36 - 13030.68 government that does that well all 13030.84 - 13033.56 benefits Society benefits and so I'm 13033.72 - 13035.96 kind of glad you used that metaphor of a 13036.12 - 13038.44 city or this idea of governance because 13038.72 - 13040.08 it is uh you know the WordPress 13040.56 - 13042.24 ecosystem in some ways is 13042.88 - 13045 extraordinarily large right with Matt 13045.2 - 13047.08 what's the percentage it's a 47% of lost 13047.36 - 13050.44 count uh of all the web um but the 13050.8 - 13052.48 professional ecosystem is quite small 13052.92 - 13055.08 it's in the thousands of people who are 13055.36 - 13057.2 like deeply embedded with maybe the tens 13057.48 - 13059.4 of thousands who are more have a more 13060.36 - 13064.08 iary uh involvement in in WordPress um 13065.08 - 13066.52 what do you think needs to be done 13067.4 - 13069.32 because WordPress is 18 years old in the 13069.48 - 13073.12 next say 18 years to um improve 13073.84 - 13076.56 governance so that it can have uh a 13076.76 - 13077.76 hundred-year lifespan I think you've 13077.92 - 13078.96 talked to me about that before like your 13079.16 - 13080.84 a 100-year plan for WordPress what do 13080.96 - 13081.92 you think needs to be done from a 13082.04 - 13083.16 governance perspective to enable 13084.6 - 13087.24 that you know it's easy to think it's 13087.44 - 13090 about code or rules or things like that 13090.48 - 13092.8 really it's about culture so if we can 13093.04 - 13096.32 maintain our culture of giving back 13096.92 - 13099.56 working together you know hashing out 13099.76 - 13100.96 our disagreements and coming to 13101.52 - 13104.28 consensus and constantly having humility 13105.28 - 13107.36 that you know times when I have been 13107.52 - 13108.68 super certain in the past or probably 13108.92 - 13109.8 anyone who's been involved with 13109.96 - 13111.76 WordPress you know history has shown 13112.16 - 13114.4 that we've been wrong guess what we're 13114.6 - 13117.32 human we're fallible so like just 13117.52 - 13119.12 keeping that in mind even when we're at 13119.32 - 13122.48 our most certain for for what is the 13122.68 - 13124.4 next thing we need to do or a way a 13124.52 - 13126.44 certain thing could work knowing that 13126.72 - 13128.08 you know maybe with the progress of 13128.28 - 13130.24 history or as we learn we'll realize 13130.68 - 13132.56 that there might be a better way and so 13132.88 - 13134.08 that's also why I'm not terribly 13134.44 - 13135.84 prescriptive to say like this is the one 13136.04 - 13138.2 true way we must run WordPress and we've 13138.48 - 13139.6 experimented with so many different 13139.84 - 13141.44 types of governments and way of run ways 13141.68 - 13144.12 of running the project over time if you 13144.28 - 13146.56 had to pin me down for a single Theory I 13146.68 - 13148.8 think that's when different parts of a 13148.96 - 13150.32 software ecosystem are different levels 13150.56 - 13153.92 of maturity different forms of how to 13154.08 - 13155.6 run and operate them are most effective 13156.56 - 13158.04 so when something's in it's very very 13158.76 - 13161.12 early nent stages or it's still kind of 13161.2 - 13162.84 being hashed out maybe that's where you 13162.96 - 13164.88 need like a super strong lead with a 13165 - 13166.56 Clear Vision you know and that's what's 13166.72 - 13167.8 going to drive it to get to the point 13168.04 - 13169.16 where more people can understand it 13169.36 - 13170.56 maybe that's the early days of Gutenberg 13171.56 - 13173.4 um for other things at different levels 13173.64 - 13176 of maturity maybe what they need is we 13176.12 - 13177.48 need as much Community input as possible 13178.08 - 13180.56 so it's really about like talking to as 13180.68 - 13182.72 many users of Wordpress and stakeholders 13183.32 - 13184.88 and gathering information and then 13185.04 - 13187.36 creating almost like a a consensus or 13187.84 - 13190.28 synthesis of information from as many 13190.52 - 13192.56 places as possible and the quality of 13192.68 - 13194 those decisions will be driven by how 13194.2 - 13195.96 widely you can cast that net like are we 13196.12 - 13198.72 just talking to English speakers who are 13198.92 - 13201.28 on wordpress.org forums or are we 13201.52 - 13202.8 actually going out there and like 13203.2 - 13204.64 reaching out to the world are we talking 13204.84 - 13206.12 to people who don't use WordPress yet 13206.64 - 13208.96 and using that to inform um various 13209.4 - 13211.64 decisions so you know five five years 13211.84 - 13214.52 ago one of the things that I was kind of 13214.6 - 13217 leaning in on um and you called me out 13217.12 - 13218.76 on it it's like what it sounds like you 13218.88 - 13219.96 have an answer already was basically 13220.36 - 13223.6 this idea of would be would it be 13223.76 - 13225.24 appropriate for there to essentially be 13225.44 - 13227.08 like this Global project 13227.96 - 13230 manager able to provide this kind of 13230.16 - 13231.56 synthesis of everything going on in the 13232.24 - 13234.16 ecosystem uh to implement your vision 13234.48 - 13236.16 and I feel like since then we've kind of 13236.32 - 13238.08 got that it feels like that's basically 13238.56 - 13239.8 what the WordPress executive director 13240.48 - 13241.84 role and what Joseph has been able to 13242.04 - 13243.52 really do to coordinate so much of the 13243.68 - 13243.96 activity in 13244.64 - 13247.08 WordPress um what have you learned from 13247.32 - 13248.8 that process because in some ways you 13249.16 - 13251.28 give up control there but in others like 13251.4 - 13253.68 she is both implementing her the things 13254.04 - 13255.84 that she has pulled together from that 13256.08 - 13258 synthesis alongside the vision that you 13258.16 - 13259.64 help establish uh from the 13260.8 - 13263.88 top yeah I mean this prob maybe it 13263.96 - 13265.4 wasn't true in the very earliest days of 13265.56 - 13267.44 WordPress but call it the past decade 13268.28 - 13269.48 I'm so much more interested 13270.56 - 13274.56 and invested in outcome Over Control you 13274.68 - 13276.64 know or even credit you know it's really 13276.88 - 13280 about like are we moving the State ofth 13280.24 - 13281.88 art forward are we making our Dent of 13282.04 - 13284.04 the universe are we having the impact we 13284.16 - 13286.28 want to have to meet our mission um 13287.04 - 13289.04 Joseph's role has been amazing right 13289.56 - 13292.84 yeah agreed agreed fulltime on it versus 13293.2 - 13295.12 where I I wear a number of ads I'm the 13295.24 - 13298.44 CEO of a 1500 person company like you 13298.56 - 13299.6 know there's there's a lot of things 13299.84 - 13301.6 that I do and try to serve in the 13301.72 - 13303.16 community so having someone focused 13303.52 - 13305.48 full-time on I think my learning is also 13305.76 - 13308.76 just that it's it's too wide uh to be 13309.36 - 13311.04 relying on a single person even if it's 13311.16 - 13313.04 someone as amazing as josea so it's 13313.28 - 13314.8 really about doing that at every level 13315.36 - 13318.72 figuring out how we can um you know give 13319 - 13320.8 people the responsibility accountability 13321.76 - 13323.4 and autonomy to really move an area 13323.68 - 13325.04 forward and that's one of the beautiful 13325.44 - 13326.2 things you know when we were talking 13326.44 - 13328.64 about like the 5% earlier one thing that 13328.8 - 13330.08 when that started people were like well 13330.32 - 13331.32 can you just like take the foundation 13332.24 - 13333.68 have everyone donate 5% of the revenues 13334.08 - 13335.56 to it and then you like hire some people 13335.8 - 13337.52 and do stuff and things like that which 13337.72 - 13338.64 actually would be a little bit more like 13338.76 - 13340 a government right like you pay the 13340.16 - 13342.72 government they spend the money Etc but 13342.84 - 13344.04 one of the Beauties about our model is 13344.2 - 13345.28 that when you contribute back to 13345.44 - 13346.96 Wordpress you can choose how to do it 13347.64 - 13348.84 and you're essentially voting with your 13349.12 - 13351 contributions you know what you work on 13351.56 - 13352.8 what bugs you pay attention to what 13352.96 - 13354.52 documentation you write into what's 13354.76 - 13356.04 important to you it would be like if 13356.2 - 13358.56 every tax star you you paid you got to 13358.64 - 13359.84 choose exactly what it was spent on 13360.72 - 13362.96 and I find that's a far more model that 13363.08 - 13365.04 could actually create something which is 13365.32 - 13367.64 resilient um for many many decades to 13367.76 - 13370.28 come because then what actually is being 13370.48 - 13372.4 worked on within the WordPress project 13372.68 - 13375.32 and ecosystem is a reflection of what 13375.48 - 13377.84 people feel the biggest impact is and I 13378.16 - 13379.96 don't always or even often agree with 13380.12 - 13382.48 what people choose to contribute to but 13382.64 - 13384.16 that's the beauty of it is you know 13385 - 13386.44 sometimes that that might annoy me but 13386.6 - 13389.52 more often you know I see some 13390.04 - 13391.48 incredible new feature of functionality 13392.16 - 13393.48 that comes out of something that I would 13393.64 - 13395.88 have never picked or guessed in a 13396.08 - 13398.64 hundred years and that's just this idea 13399.12 - 13402.16 that all of us are smarter than any one 13402.36 - 13403.36 of us is is so 13404.36 - 13406.76 true and that's why to me like you know 13406.96 - 13408.52 leading WordPress isn't doesn't mean I 13408.64 - 13411.56 have all the answers it means that I I 13411.64 - 13413.52 want to commit us to a process which 13413.8 - 13415.36 emerges the best answers and the best 13415.56 - 13417 wisdom and intelligence from everywhere 13417.32 - 13419.04 in the network of contributors that it 13419.24 - 13419.48 that it exists 13420.88 - 13424.36 if you had to just like place people and 13424.68 - 13427.68 say Hello uh let's call some out you 13427.8 - 13429.8 know God Daddy and Google and blue host 13430.32 - 13433.36 and yast and uh awesome motive these 13433.64 - 13435.88 companies that are anywhere from say a 13436.08 - 13440.12 100 employees to 10,000 employees where 13440.72 - 13442.4 where would you ask them to commit 13442.8 - 13444.44 resources for the betterment of the 13444.68 - 13445.28 project as a 13447.4 - 13451 whole um full-time people working on 13451.44 - 13454.04 core I think would be number one like 13454.24 - 13456.68 that is our biggest leverage Point um I 13456.76 - 13458.32 think all of those companies also have 13458.64 - 13460.44 if I were to expand a little bit you 13460.56 - 13461.92 know many those companies have 13462.48 - 13463.48 incredible marketing expertise 13464.08 - 13465.8 incredible messaging expertise for 13465.92 - 13467.88 WordPress as a whole for for WordPress 13468.64 - 13471.04 yeah well just that expertise you know 13471.36 - 13474.28 oh I see gosh let's use GoDaddy as an 13474.4 - 13476 example they've been marketing for 20 13476.44 - 13478.32 years doing Super Bowl commercials 13478.84 - 13480.92 things like that like not just uh 13481.16 - 13484.4 Engineers or or people like that what if 13484.72 - 13486.24 like someone in the marketing department 13486.76 - 13489.88 there um helped us figure out how we 13490.04 - 13492.68 need to redefine what WordPress is in 13493.24 - 13495.12 other countries you know one the our big 13495.28 - 13498.48 challenges I would say is like um people 13498.72 - 13500.76 have ideas of Wordpress from 5 10 or or 13500.92 - 13503.88 18 years ago yeah I got some at it 13504.16 - 13506.64 recently and so like how do we ask 13506.96 - 13508.4 people to like say Hey you have these 13508.56 - 13510.16 preconceived notions but please don't 13510.32 - 13513.12 let WordPress be defined by a bad Wix ad 13513.4 - 13515.2 or something like that like here here's 13515.44 - 13516.88 how we tell our own story about what's 13517.16 - 13518.4 powerful and what's unique about 13518.6 - 13519.8 WordPress is actually nothing else in 13519.96 - 13523.44 the market offers and um I think that 13523.68 - 13524.76 that could be really helpful so just 13525 - 13528.48 contributions that 5% again is to we we 13528.56 - 13530.12 don't Define what that looks like it's 13530.24 - 13531.52 not dollars and Work Camp sponsorships 13532.12 - 13534.2 it's not like number of people um there 13534.32 - 13536.76 can be proxies like an automatic my goal 13536.96 - 13538.6 is to have we're 1500 people that means 13539.08 - 13540.68 about 75 five need to be contributing to 13540.84 - 13543.4 core and uh working on something in 13543.6 - 13546.12 wordpress.org for uh for us to meet our 13546.28 - 13549.08 five for the future commitment um so 13549.76 - 13552 that that is lots of things and um so 13552.2 - 13553 think about those those alternative 13553.48 - 13555.76 areas Anyone Who Says by the way that 13555.92 - 13557.12 they feel like automatic has too much 13557.28 - 13558.72 influence well you can have influence 13559.12 - 13559.8 too just put some in 13560.6 - 13563 core there's a there's no blockers to 13563.16 - 13564.84 anyone being part of it and I think 13565.28 - 13567.12 we're we're seeing a good bit of that 13567.4 - 13568.84 even if it doesn't mean they're coming 13569.08 - 13571 into cour but there are companies that 13571.16 - 13573.88 see the size the absolute impact of 13574.44 - 13577.24 Wordpress on the broader web and they're 13577.48 - 13579.48 getting involved one of the ways we're 13579.64 - 13581.6 seeing that come together though is 13582.52 - 13582.96 almost like 13583.88 - 13586.72 bifurcated uh use cases of Wordpress or 13587.12 - 13589.24 or presentations of Wordpress so that 13589.4 - 13590.8 the onboarding experience at 13591.4 - 13593.24 wordpress.com is different than if you 13593.36 - 13595.64 download WordPress and install it on a 13596.44 - 13598.48 empty box on digital ocean it's 13598.72 - 13600.08 different than if if you were to start 13600.32 - 13602.16 your WordPress experience at GoDaddy or 13602.24 - 13603.12 if you were to start your WordPress 13603.68 - 13606.16 experience through buying a theme uh on 13606.32 - 13608.4 a Marketplace like inato these are all 13609.08 - 13610.92 different experiences and these 13611.16 - 13612.32 different companies that have incentives 13612.76 - 13614.12 are creating kind of their own 13615.12 - 13617.16 onboarding experiences and versions of 13617.36 - 13619 Wordpress what do you think is good 13619.2 - 13621.08 about that and then what do you think is 13621.44 - 13622.28 potentially bad about 13623.72 - 13625.84 that I think that's beautiful to be 13626.04 - 13628.12 honest like that's kind of the the best 13628.36 - 13629.92 thing about open source is people can 13630.32 - 13632.36 take it and make it their own and that's 13632.6 - 13633.88 kind of built into the freedoms that 13634.08 - 13637.12 open source builds um and WordPress has 13637.4 - 13640.76 both code and a strong culture of um 13641.52 - 13645.56 that all being GPL so yeah I think where 13645.68 - 13648.36 it could be negative is actually you 13648.48 - 13649.96 know when you talk about bifurcation I I 13650 - 13651.44 don't really worry about the the 13651.56 - 13654.24 WordPress experience as much I wor more 13654.6 - 13655.24 about the the 13655.92 - 13656.92 bifurcation of 13657.92 - 13660.48 community and contrib bution can you 13660.6 - 13663.52 expand on that sure like from people see 13663.8 - 13665.16 a gap in WordPress and their first 13665.44 - 13667.92 thought is not you know how do I make 13668.12 - 13669.56 wordpress.org better or how do I make 13669.72 - 13672.44 core better but more like how do I 13673.24 - 13675.92 leverage this Gap to get more people on 13676.08 - 13678 my YouTube channel or to my proprietary 13678.64 - 13681.96 thing or something like that um so that 13682.88 - 13686 mindset um you know can be parasitic and 13686.12 - 13687.4 if there's enough parasites it will kill 13687.56 - 13688.44 the host it will kill WordPress 13690.88 - 13693.44 there with the host because suffers you 13693.56 - 13695.72 know what software does a GoDaddy or 13695.88 - 13698.52 blue host or others have to to compete 13699.32 - 13700.72 with with the proprietary Alternatives 13701.72 - 13704.8 um and that's it I think one of the big 13705 - 13707.36 answers that individual ecosystems are 13707.52 - 13709 doing to answer that is they're kind of 13709.2 - 13711.68 bundling Solutions so they're like all 13711.84 - 13713.44 right you're not choosing between 10 13713.92 - 13715.72 form plugins here's one that we ship 13716.12 - 13717.68 with our manage WordPress hosting and 13717.92 - 13719 other choices that they may make 13719.64 - 13721.2 opinions that honestly make the 13721.28 - 13722.76 onboarding experience better but they do 13723.08 - 13724.96 kind of eliminate some of that like 13726.16 - 13728.16 incredible Discovery burden that you can 13728.36 - 13729.64 come upon when you're like trying to 13729.76 - 13731 solve a problem then you look for the 13731.36 - 13734.96 answer um you if you go the traditional 13735.56 - 13737.28 route the old school route of you have a 13737.4 - 13738.76 bare WordPress install and you start 13739 - 13740.76 hunting and you install and then you see 13740.92 - 13742.4 a notification it's like well if you 13742.48 - 13744.96 want more then pay extra or do something 13745.32 - 13746.92 different do you think the plugin 13747.4 - 13748.8 ecosystem like that the freemi 13749.84 - 13751.6 kind of uh go for free find 13752.36 - 13755.08 self-discovery methods and then pay 13755.48 - 13756.88 externally for these potential upgrades 13757.28 - 13758.36 that they may offer do you think it's 13758.64 - 13760.08 been the best way to go about monetizing 13760.68 - 13762.04 WordPress for the Professionals in the 13762.24 - 13764.12 space or do you think a more centralized 13764.92 - 13767.48 and seamless experience of like turning 13768 - 13770.24 something on within the app and billing 13770.64 - 13772.56 is all through some kind of centric 13772.96 - 13775.04 WordPress space would that have 13775.32 - 13776.68 potentially been a better way to go in 13776.8 - 13776.92 the long 13778.32 - 13781.16 run I mean one thing you can say with 13781.32 - 13784.08 certainty is that the the lack of a 13784.72 - 13786.32 centralized commercial billing 13786.8 - 13788.2 Marketplace on wordpress.org or 13788.44 - 13790.2 something like that hasn't held back the 13790.32 - 13793.32 WordPress ecosystem you know there it's 13793.56 - 13795.4 amazing how many businesses that are now 13795.56 - 13797.44 tens of millions of dollars per year are 13797.64 - 13800.12 are built on top of um just the the 13800.24 - 13801.44 fundamental freedoms that open source 13801.72 - 13803.04 and WordPress as a structure gives you 13803.48 - 13804.76 that you can install plugins that aren't 13805.04 - 13807.8 from the the repository and things like 13808 - 13810.48 that but we also want to encourage as 13810.6 - 13811.68 much as possible to go through that 13811.84 - 13813.52 comment and I think what happens very 13814.24 - 13816.96 naturally um is that when there's a 13817.24 - 13819 strong enough demand for something open 13819.28 - 13821.68 source communities coals around the 13822.08 - 13826.12 solution which is um gives the most 13826.68 - 13828.72 openness and control and also solves the 13828.84 - 13831.44 most user problems and it's totally fine 13831.6 - 13832.92 if that has a premium upgrade or 13833.04 - 13835 something I think that just the whoever 13835.32 - 13836.96 is doing that or the commercial entity 13837.4 - 13839.32 has to balance like are they actually G 13839.48 - 13840.88 Community contributions like guess it's 13841.04 - 13842.6 something that really reflects the 13842.76 - 13843.84 intelligence and will of the community 13844.52 - 13847.2 for how that product operates and is the 13847.76 - 13850.8 monetization complimentary you know in 13850.96 - 13854.16 some ways what what we do it automatic 13854.76 - 13856.76 what others do is I think of it's a 13856.84 - 13858.84 little bit like Robin Hood we're not 13858.92 - 13860.4 robbing from the rich we're just like 13860.76 - 13862.24 we're charging a percentage of people 13863.2 - 13865.04 very small percentage typically under 1% 13866.04 - 13869 that um Can need something Niche that's 13869.28 - 13870.64 commercially valuable or something like 13870.84 - 13873.36 that and using that to support a free 13873.64 - 13876.04 tool for the 99% the others in the world 13876.8 - 13878.28 that either can't afford that or don't 13878.44 - 13881.36 need it and you see very naturally that 13881.6 - 13883.12 things that start off as maybe like a 13883.2 - 13886.52 Ultra Premium upgrade you know you get 13886.68 - 13887.56 something that used to cost you 13887.76 - 13889.56 thousands of dollars a developer time to 13889.8 - 13892.6 build then becomes a $100 a year plugin 13893.52 - 13895.32 then it becomes a $30 a year plugin and 13895.44 - 13896.64 then it's maybe built into something 13896.88 - 13898.36 free because again the state- ofth art 13898.8 - 13899.8 the thing that that's really hard to do 13899.96 - 13904.12 has moved on and um and now you know the 13904.16 - 13906.04 $100 Plugin or $30 plugin is some other 13906.32 - 13908.2 thing and that's that's a very very 13908.44 - 13910.72 natural cycle it's um it's kind of what 13910.96 - 13913.04 technology does is it is it commoditized 13914.04 - 13916.16 the base use cases and makes it 13916.36 - 13919.28 radically accessible and then what is 13919.72 - 13922.48 expensive what's scarce what's rare um 13922.64 - 13924.48 changes constantly really every day in 13924.96 - 13927.12 technology yeah I've actually heard that 13927.56 - 13928.56 before you know like technology 13929.64 - 13931.92 in itself is deflationary because it 13932.12 - 13934.84 does make things cheaper as a whole um 13935.12 - 13936.84 but and it increases productivity and 13937.08 - 13939 enables people to come up with and solve 13939.48 - 13942.24 new problems um WordPress has been 13942.4 - 13945.12 around long enough to go through some of 13945.24 - 13946.8 these Cycles right so where something 13947.4 - 13950.2 used to be uh a great business like a 13950.28 - 13952.36 theme business for example uh they had 13952.48 - 13953.76 to evolve it wasn't just plug-and-play 13954.32 - 13956 themes and it's like this color scheme 13956.28 - 13958.04 and this layout is what's going to make 13958.24 - 13960.12 me a a multi-million dollar business you 13960.28 - 13961.52 had to transition into a plug-in 13961.96 - 13964.8 business or a page builder business um 13965.08 - 13966.92 we've seen a lot of consolidation in the 13967.04 - 13969.56 WordPress economy a lot of a lot of 13970 - 13972.16 these uh larger entities whether it's 13972.36 - 13974.68 automatic or or GoDaddy or some of the 13974.76 - 13976.4 others they're creating these miniature 13976.84 - 13978.4 Enterprises where they kind of gobble up 13978.64 - 13980.96 some of these smaller businesses and 13981.12 - 13983.52 turn them into their teams sometimes 13983.8 - 13985.08 they pull the tools in with it and 13985.36 - 13988.08 sometimes they don't um where do you 13988.2 - 13989.36 think we are from like the health 13989.76 - 13992.6 perspective of Wordpress the economy 13993.2 - 13995.08 like for businesses people looking to be 13995.44 - 13996.44 entrepreneurs within the 13997.36 - 13999.48 space it's a really exciting time 13999.96 - 14003.28 because it feels so robust and healthy 14003.56 - 14004.64 and the fact that these exits are 14004.92 - 14007.68 happening then creates more incentives 14008.44 - 14010.68 for something new to be created either 14010.88 - 14012.72 from the alumni of these companies or 14013 - 14015.28 these these exits um or by people that 14015.44 - 14016.96 know that you know they can get 14017.12 - 14018.52 something to a certain point and 14019.48 - 14021.56 and sell to one of these companies it's 14021.8 - 14023.16 actually not very different you know 14023.36 - 14025.28 from you know when Google and Yahoo and 14025.4 - 14026.72 all these companies would buy up lots of 14026.92 - 14028.28 startups guess what that created way 14028.4 - 14031.64 more 14029.36 - 14031.48 startups some of which then became like 14031.64 - 14033.8 Airbnb and Uber and challenged the tech 14034.04 - 14036.16 giants like that's that's the beauty of 14036.32 - 14039.24 how the ecosystem functions um I I'll 14039.4 - 14041.12 just come back to that contribution like 14041.32 - 14043.2 I think it's really important as these 14043.84 - 14044.52 you know there is some centralization 14045.52 - 14048.4 and companies that are amassing a ton of 14048.6 - 14049.72 power and clout in the worpress 14050.44 - 14052.12 ecosystem I don't always see them 14052.76 - 14054.68 prioritizing um the commment in the core 14055.68 - 14057.68 and like I said if if we get too 14058.56 - 14060.72 many um of the folks involved in 14060.88 - 14063.68 WordPress ecosystem um only looking 14064 - 14065.48 after their selfin and not thinking 14065.72 - 14067.44 about the future you know we'll have 14067.72 - 14069.84 maybe a short-term gain for a few but a 14070 - 14071.68 long-term decline of the overall 14072.52 - 14076.28 ecosystem and it'll look like like a PHP 14076.68 - 14078.2 nuke or one of these other projects that 14078.28 - 14080.24 is very Ing and then just kind of 14080.4 - 14083.8 withered on the bone and um you know 14084.16 - 14085.6 that's the thing I bring up so much 14085.92 - 14087.16 because it could easily happen to 14087.32 - 14089.16 Wordpress and I think at the point when 14089.36 - 14090.12 there's actually the most commercial 14090.64 - 14092.76 opportunity is when there is the most 14093.16 - 14094.2 opportunity to for that short-termism 14095 - 14098.76 and so it's so important to for us to 14098.96 - 14101.2 really think long term for WordPress to 14101.32 - 14104.8 be um vibrant and thriving in 10 20 30 14105.12 - 14108 years from now what can your company do 14108.88 - 14111.28 to contribute to that and if you think 14111.52 - 14113.52 long term I find that all all problems 14113.84 - 14115.48 in this come from thinking too shortterm 14115.92 - 14117.08 versus longterm so if you're able to 14117.2 - 14118.04 really put yourself in that long-term 14118.48 - 14121.08 mindset it becomes so obvious why like 14121.6 - 14123 oh well we need to contribute to solve 14123.32 - 14125.2 XYZ problem because it's probably not 14125.32 - 14127.28 going to happen on its own I understand 14127.4 - 14128.32 that better than anyone else or our 14128.44 - 14129.4 company understands that better than 14129.52 - 14131.04 anyone else and let's make sure that 14131.16 - 14132.48 gets in the core because then that'll 14132.84 - 14135.08 enable 10 times the opportunities down 14135.24 - 14137.96 the line do you think it's Equitable in 14138.08 - 14141.8 terms of who benefits from this cycle um 14142.24 - 14144.12 you know automatic has its own balance 14144.6 - 14146.48 that it has to face right in terms of 14147.24 - 14148.56 what do we monetize and how do we 14148.68 - 14150.72 monetize it how do we utilize our 14151.24 - 14152.44 tremendous Network effects that are 14152.56 - 14153.96 built in like just the domain 14154.28 - 14157.56 wordpress.com itself um is powerful the 14158.36 - 14161.36 uh partnership capacity that you have uh 14161.56 - 14163.12 as the founder of the project and the 14163.24 - 14166.28 CEO of the the product to be able to get 14166.44 - 14169 jetpack installed on sites people feel 14169.24 - 14170.56 like they're at a disadvantage how do 14170.68 - 14173.08 you bring cohesiveness in this economic 14174.08 - 14176.24 uh environment rather than pure 14176.76 - 14178.52 competitiveness where they say well like 14178.84 - 14179.88 okay well we got to compete with jetpack 14180.32 - 14181.68 and what they're trying to accomplish or 14182.36 - 14183.68 our page builder has to compete with 14183.84 - 14185.08 what Gutenberg is trying to accomplish 14185.52 - 14187.08 how do you bring cohesiveness instead 14188.08 - 14190.88 competition's fine it's great I I think 14191.04 - 14192.36 it's just more about if you think really 14192.72 - 14194.84 long term what are the areas where we 14194.96 - 14195.08 want to 14196 - 14197.76 collaborate what are the areas that 14197.92 - 14199.28 really fit into Price's mission of 14199.44 - 14201.88 democratizing publishing that we can put 14202.04 - 14204.48 something into and it also that helps 14204.72 - 14207.4 you be ahead of the trends as well I I 14207.56 - 14209 hope that the lesson people take away 14209.16 - 14211.28 from automatic is that a company that 14211.44 - 14213.8 really puts this first and does have 14214.08 - 14215.56 dozens of full-time people working on 14215.72 - 14216.96 core not working on anything commercial 14217.92 - 14220.36 can you know be successful with 14220.56 - 14223.04 investors at raising you know over half 14223.16 - 14225.36 a billion dollars can grow to be such a 14225.52 - 14227.96 huge company can be very lucrative as 14228.12 - 14232.04 well all while operating in like a a 14232.2 - 14234.84 Community First long-term mindset and so 14235.04 - 14236.64 so you're saying while that that 14236.8 - 14238.4 individual is contributing they're 14238.72 - 14241.2 identifying as well the places where 14242.2 - 14242.92 WordPress can be 14243.68 - 14246.64 monetized but in a uh collaborative 14247.16 - 14248.52 manner like not taking away from 14248.72 - 14249.8 WordPress or being a vulture on the 14249.92 - 14251.28 ecosystem but actually by adding 14251.6 - 14252.68 something that's just not like core 14253.4 - 14255.32 territory you have to skate to where the 14255.48 - 14257.44 puck is going and guess what if you're 14257.6 - 14258.8 if you're just kind of looking from the 14258.92 - 14260.56 outside and saying oh what would be a 14260.64 - 14262.28 good WordPress business you're going to 14262.64 - 14264.28 copy the thing or start the thing that 14264.4 - 14265.72 was a good idea two or three years ago 14266.28 - 14267.84 and it's going to be too late by the 14267.96 - 14269.4 time you get there so if you really want 14269.52 - 14271.72 to create a great WordPress business you 14271.84 - 14273.8 should be as heavily involved with with 14274.04 - 14275.92 the core and Community as possible 14276.72 - 14277.84 because that's GNA show you not what's a 14278 - 14279.96 good idea now what's a good idea in 2024 14280.84 - 14282.28 that you can start working now by the 14282.36 - 14284.32 time 2024 comes along you'll have the 14284.48 - 14286.52 best solution in the marketplace and 14286.8 - 14290.08 then you'll get years of of being the 14290.28 - 14291.96 best thing out there and then probably 14292.24 - 14293.88 some other people will do it and copy it 14294.16 - 14295.56 and and or get commoditized or something 14295.76 - 14296.8 like that but that's fine because then 14296.96 - 14298.6 you're on to the next thing that is the 14298.76 - 14301.2 beauty of Technology ecosystems Philo 14302.2 - 14304.4 goe it's always so iterative that always 14304.72 - 14306.76 the next thing is um is being created 14307.16 - 14309.16 commoditized and um and capitalized 14310.16 - 14311.48 Philip Roth in the chat said I still 14311.64 - 14312.88 have to get used to the fact that core 14313.44 - 14316.16 also means Gutenberg uh I think that's 14316.32 - 14317.52 funny because I mean Gutenberg is 14318.52 - 14319.72 absolutely core to the worst WordPress 14320.16 - 14321.96 experience today more and more so Over 14322.48 - 14326 time however within WordPress it's like 14326.24 - 14328.16 there's this new and shiny stuff that is 14328.72 - 14330.48 the the speed the single page app 14330.76 - 14333.36 environment of the Gutenberg editor and 14333.48 - 14334.64 then there's like the stuff that feels 14334.92 - 14337.76 10 years older or older uh with the word 14338.04 - 14340.16 press uh admin like some of the options 14340.52 - 14341.96 that I still like to complain about or 14342.2 - 14344.56 you know like default settings and 14344.92 - 14346.16 things how do 14347.04 - 14350.88 we make WordPress feel modern across the 14351.04 - 14354.84 board like to have this um take this 14355 - 14357.36 vision of Gutenberg of this expressive 14358.76 - 14361.6 modular component driven single page 14362.2 - 14364.28 application and send it the rest of the 14364.52 - 14370.12 way 14365.84 - 14369.96 um it sound like right now I I feel like 14370.12 - 14372.2 I'm in two different applications when 14372.36 - 14373.88 I'm using Wordpress one's I'm composing 14374.88 - 14376.72 and then one is I'm administering and 14376.84 - 14378.88 the administering one is like a decade 14379.28 - 14380.72 behind and it makes me cringe to be 14380.88 - 14382.84 quite honest and I hate to say that uh 14382.96 - 14385.24 as a longtime WordPress but I'm like how 14385.36 - 14387.4 do we move faster to get the rest of it 14387.64 - 14390.2 feeling like it's got the same you know 14390.4 - 14393.24 sleekness as Gutenberg has has uh 14393.36 - 14399.08 evolved 14394.4 - 14398.96 into yeah um how do we move faster I 14399.08 - 14399.64 think is a question 14400.56 - 14402.96 that especially as a big ship it's a big 14403.2 - 14405.32 it's a big project lead to the night um 14406.16 - 14407.36 because I'm probably the most impatient 14407.88 - 14408.8 word press user in the 14410.24 - 14414.44 world uh but you know great things take 14414.68 - 14416.56 time great software takes 10 years as I 14416.68 - 14420.88 said earlier and so I think that this 14421.16 - 14424.08 idea of composing versus administrating 14425.08 - 14426.4 is actually a really powerful concept 14427.08 - 14429.8 and part of the reason why um we 14430 - 14432 maintained kind of a backend in fronted 14432.92 - 14434.64 if you recall when Gutenberg was getting 14434.84 - 14436.32 started which jup and others were doing 14436.56 - 14437.72 was kind of putting everything into the 14437.8 - 14440 front end and making kind of the front 14440.24 - 14441.72 of the site where you edit and and do 14441.96 - 14443.48 things and we made the philosophical 14444.08 - 14445.16 decision to say no there's actually 14445.32 - 14447.6 going to be a separate app you go to a 14447.76 - 14451.76 separate place that is like that the the 14451.88 - 14452.96 back of the store not the front of the 14453.08 - 14454.56 store you know those are going to be 14454.68 - 14455.76 very very separate and that'll give us a 14455.84 - 14457.68 lot of flexibility so I think that was a 14457.76 - 14459.04 good decision and when I still stand by 14459.48 - 14461.4 now within that I actually do think that 14461.52 - 14464.04 there is a managing versus um composing 14464.84 - 14466.44 part of it like one is a Creator process 14466.88 - 14468.8 and one is doing things updating plugins 14469.4 - 14472.68 you know changing how things work and I 14472.84 - 14475.04 don't see like let's say changing 14475.48 - 14478 settings needing to be a react powered 14479 - 14481.24 rest API single like you're typing some 14481.4 - 14482.6 text in a form and you're present save 14483.08 - 14484.76 like and we could even autosave it it's 14484.88 - 14486.52 no big deal like the media library does 14486.8 - 14488.88 so however like maybe user management or 14489.64 - 14491.52 um you know woocommerce takes advantage 14491.84 - 14493.12 of these same type of interfaces like 14493.24 - 14495.32 order management we don't want those 14495.52 - 14497.04 interfaces right you want to be able to 14497.24 - 14499.56 like quickly go in and go out and do the 14499.68 - 14501.72 things you need to do with users in the 14501.88 - 14503.2 platform because that's a big reason to 14503.32 - 14504.92 use WordPress is the the fact that 14505.04 - 14508.48 someone can log in and uh manage the 14509.12 - 14511.88 system and how do we make that you know 14512.84 - 14513.96 if I will say something else that hauns 14514.2 - 14514.72 me it's list table 14516.04 - 14518.76 right put things in that table and it's 14518.96 - 14519.92 like well is that really the best 14520.16 - 14523.48 interface for something like um I've 14523.64 - 14525.8 been thinking a lot more about cards you 14525.92 - 14527.96 know what could be card interface for 14528.32 - 14530.32 for user management yeah that still kept 14530.52 - 14532.04 the flexibility being able to see a 14532.2 - 14535.08 bunch of data for or users at once and 14535.44 - 14536.8 and filter by the different roles and 14536.96 - 14539.6 search by multiple Fields all in once in 14539.68 - 14541.84 a unified search field and mass edit 14542.2 - 14544.48 people like that that or users that kind 14544.6 - 14546.28 of thing I think is is super powerful 14547.28 - 14548.84 and how could we bring that into a 14549 - 14551.84 visually more engaging interface and 14552.12 - 14553.48 what's kind of cool is is you could 14553.64 - 14555.04 imagine every table kind of turning into 14555.28 - 14556.36 a car it's what we do with the 14556.52 - 14558.16 responsive view right when you get small 14559.04 - 14560.44 so what if that responsive view could 14560.64 - 14561.88 essentially be migrated to something 14562.12 - 14562.92 that looked great on a big screen 14563.2 - 14564.68 monitor with you know however many 14564.88 - 14566.72 columns fit in the width of the screen 14567.64 - 14568.88 so I think that there's definitely paths 14569.16 - 14570.56 to go there that can both maintain 14570.92 - 14572.16 backwards compatibility with things that 14572.28 - 14573.44 have extended something like list table 14574.24 - 14576.88 and be a lot more feel a lot more modern 14577.68 - 14579.4 that actually don't require changing the 14579.56 - 14582.16 whole technology stack and so I think 14582.32 - 14583.92 that it's key I mean the reason we took 14584.08 - 14586.44 a new technology stack for Gutenberg is 14586.64 - 14587.56 we absolutely had to 14588.72 - 14591.28 yeah you know we absolutely had to to 14591.56 - 14593.08 accomplish what you just saw in that 14593.28 - 14596.12 video could not happen with page reloads 14597.08 - 14598.44 you know every time you drive off the 14598.52 - 14599.96 block the page had a submit or something 14600.36 - 14603.64 like and so we we did you know uh create 14603.96 - 14605.24 something that was like a new technology 14605.72 - 14607.96 stack but for other parts of the 14608.2 - 14611.08 application WP admin um that's not 14611.24 - 14612.44 needed and in fact it might even be 14612.56 - 14614.56 slower to load to Bo upop a whole react 14615.28 - 14616.96 kind of thing like you know those pages 14617.28 - 14618.92 load Ultra fast when they're when 14619.04 - 14621.12 they're more static HTML that or forms 14621.52 - 14623.48 or things like that PHP serers side 14623.72 - 14627.84 rendered um interactions and so that is 14628.84 - 14630.24 I guess kind of a long answer to that 14630.52 - 14632.92 but um I agree that we should start 14633.16 - 14634.36 putting some more attention on all that 14634.68 - 14636.2 but I'm also not that worried because if 14636.28 - 14637.92 we looked at percentage of percentage of 14638.08 - 14640.56 time spent in WP admin more and more of 14640.68 - 14642.32 that is being subsumed by things people 14642.52 - 14644.48 can do inside goodbook and even like the 14644.6 - 14646.64 replacement of widgets and menus and 14647.04 - 14647.48 eventually customized 14648.56 - 14650.08 like being things you can do within the 14650.16 - 14651.88 Gutenberg interface means that there'll 14652.08 - 14654.2 be less and less kind of custom 14654.6 - 14656.8 interfaces or Legacy interfaces that you 14656.92 - 14659.4 have to interact with to to run your 14659.52 - 14662 WordPress dayto day yeah you know one of 14662.12 - 14664 the groups of uh people in WordPress 14664.44 - 14666.48 ecosystem that's long been important are 14667.2 - 14668.92 Consultants uh and Consulting agencies 14669.44 - 14671.52 that are used to a particular way of 14671.68 - 14673.12 working right it's like here's the 14673.36 - 14674.92 design here's the structured content 14675.44 - 14676.72 we're going to put it in the database 14677.16 - 14678.12 we're going to pull it out with metadata 14678.56 - 14680.32 and show it on the page Gutenberg really 14680.48 - 14682.36 flips that on its head um and there's 14682.64 - 14684.92 this middle part of Consultants it's not 14685.12 - 14687.16 like the site Wranglers that I think are 14687.48 - 14689.12 really empowered by Gutenberg just like 14689.36 - 14691.36 the advanced users or or maybe regular 14691.72 - 14693.68 users using Gutenberg and then there's 14693.92 - 14695.32 like the high-end Consultants you know 14695.52 - 14696.88 the human maids and the tups of the 14697 - 14699.48 world um where they have a lot of work 14699.68 - 14700.92 that they can they can do with big 14701.36 - 14703.64 entities that middle part of consultant 14704.24 - 14706.16 has always been really important for the 14706.28 - 14707.56 growth of Wordpress because it's an 14707.96 - 14709.48 interactive agency or an ad agency that 14709.6 - 14710.64 has a couple folks that know WordPress 14711.12 - 14712.16 and they build stuff for their clients 14713.04 - 14713.72 do you think they're getting squeezed 14714.12 - 14717.32 out uh based on the evolution of where 14717.64 - 14719.36 gutenberg's gone being this kind of 14719.72 - 14721.84 immersive page building experience and 14722 - 14724 giving that power to the person directly 14724.32 - 14724.44 on the 14725.52 - 14730.44 page 14728.16 - 14730.24 no maybe you do because you asked the 14730.44 - 14733.2 question but I do I think who's being 14733.44 - 14735.04 squeezed out is folks who don't evolve 14735.96 - 14738.16 you know it was five years ago six years 14738.32 - 14739.8 ago they said to learn JavaScript deeply 14740.92 - 14743.44 yeah like I think that a key skill for 14743.64 - 14744.84 that middle is going to be creating 14745.32 - 14747.52 block patterns and repeating blocks you 14747.64 - 14749.72 know things that used to maybe use more 14749.88 - 14751.72 of like a a custom field interface to 14752.28 - 14754.2 allow people to edit now could be a 14754.4 - 14755.84 really by the way we're trying to make 14756 - 14757.44 that as easy as possible could be like a 14757.6 - 14759.48 really beautiful wizzywig system to 14759.68 - 14761.84 create like the about page type example 14762.24 - 14764.72 we always use like image bio link just 14764.88 - 14767.32 repeat that over and over um that could 14767.44 - 14769.96 be could be really powerful so I think 14770.32 - 14774.36 that leveraging these new tools is is 14774.56 - 14777.72 the new you know learn Gutenberg deeply 14778.72 - 14780.64 you become super fluent with it you'll 14780.84 - 14782.92 be able to create things far faster than 14783.04 - 14783.96 you would have before if you're making 14784.28 - 14786.72 custom themes and they give so much 14787.28 - 14790.6 power into the hands of um of your 14790.84 - 14793.2 ultimate client end users that they will 14793.44 - 14795.24 be far more delighted with the outcome 14796.24 - 14797.16 but you can still do it with guardrails 14797.96 - 14799.52 that keep them from messing things up 14800.16 - 14801.48 you know even the fact that there's an 14801.6 - 14802.76 undo built into everything in Gutenberg 14803.48 - 14804.68 and we still have page revision so it's 14804.8 - 14806.24 easy to like go backwards and forwards 14807.24 - 14809.4 um it's such a powerful concept for like 14809.64 - 14811.32 giving people a lot of power and saying 14812.12 - 14813.48 there's really nothing you can do inside 14813.84 - 14817.04 this editor that we can't fix that we 14817.16 - 14819.16 can't undo that we can't like roll back 14819.68 - 14823.4 so really you know um explore it and so 14823.64 - 14825.56 much of I would say the things that 14825.76 - 14828.08 allow for Block controls meaning like 14828.28 - 14829.84 only certain blocks are allowed only 14830.08 - 14831.2 certain things can happen within blocks 14831.76 - 14833.56 or blocks or templates that kind of like 14834 - 14835.52 Define exactly what blocks are there and 14835.64 - 14837.32 only allow editing within an existing 14837.64 - 14839.36 layout of structure was created with 14839.56 - 14840.44 what I think you're calling the middle 14840.72 - 14843.44 layer of agencies and Consultants very 14843.6 - 14845.36 much in mind because allows them to 14845.68 - 14848.84 create um a really really rich uh 14849.52 - 14852 interaction um but still do it in a way 14852.36 - 14853.56 that you know they're not going to get a 14853.72 - 14855.2 call at 2 am saying I already broke this 14855.32 - 14857.2 thing I don't know how to fix it someone 14857.52 - 14858.8 like two or three things including undo 14859.64 - 14860.64 and there's really nothing they can't 14861.24 - 14863.16 fix one of the other elements of that 14863.32 - 14865.36 too that I think these um 14866.88 - 14868.52 Consultants I think they're starting to 14868.68 - 14871.08 really go this route um and I wonder how 14871.28 - 14872.96 WordPress can play play a bigger role 14873.24 - 14875.48 here which is you've talked about 14875.64 - 14878.12 WordPress as the operating system of the 14878.36 - 14880.92 web part of being that is this support 14881.4 - 14883.64 of all the ways people interface with 14884.24 - 14885.88 what's there right like what's what that 14886 - 14887.28 if WordPress is the central place 14888.48 - 14890.8 um something like what we did at post 14891 - 14893.2 status forever sending a newsletter uh 14893.32 - 14895.16 being able to do that easily from the 14895.36 - 14898 content that exists on the website uh 14898.28 - 14900.12 talking to people on social media or 14900.24 - 14902.08 hosting a conversation on the website 14903.04 - 14904.48 some of these other things like pulling 14904.96 - 14907.56 this stuff together um having a presence 14908.44 - 14911.92 on um like a Google Maps you know like 14912.04 - 14913 that's how people find so many 14913.32 - 14915.2 businesses back when people visited 14916.6 - 14921.76 businesses 14918.36 - 14921.56 um so do you think there's a bigger role 14921.76 - 14923.2 that WordPress can play or a better job 14923.44 - 14925.16 that WordPress can do to be the glue 14925.64 - 14926.36 between a lot of these 14928.56 - 14931.04 systems yeah if we were to you know talk 14931.4 - 14933.88 again and or Camp Europe 20206 or 14936.16 - 14939.2 something1 I I would really hope that at 14939.4 - 14942.48 that point there were more really 14943.56 - 14946.24 vibrant um Community plugins for 14946.52 - 14949.64 WordPress 14948.36 - 14949.48 I think we're seeing right now where the 14949.64 - 14951.24 most successful ones tend to have a 14951.36 - 14953.68 company behind them or turn into a 14954.52 - 14958.56 company um and I'm really interested to 14958.68 - 14960.16 see if we can get the Dynamics that make 14960.64 - 14962.96 WordPress so robust so healthy the 14963.12 - 14965.16 collaboration the bug tracking the 14965.4 - 14967.08 contributions the ease of of driveby 14967.56 - 14968.68 contributions you know in any given 14968.88 - 14970.32 release there's a few hundred people who 14970.48 - 14971.44 only do one change 14973 - 14976.52 um how can we make those Dynamics really 14977.64 - 14979.68 core to how the plug-in ecosystem works 14980.16 - 14982.08 because then I think you will see more 14983.8 - 14986.28 um what' you say like a Google Maps 14986.6 - 14987.56 integration or something like whatever 14988.04 - 14989.8 it is that the the community really 14989.96 - 14992 needs and wants there could be like a 14992.24 - 14995.52 really super robust as open as WordPress 14996.52 - 14998.76 um solution to that and I'd love to see 14999.64 - 15001.88 a fantastic plugin for accessibility I'd 15002.04 - 15003.6 love to see Gutenberg is itself a plugin 15004.16 - 15005.52 right so that's that's one area where 15005.64 - 15007.16 we've kept it as a plugin to to continue 15007.56 - 15009.88 roaring things um I'd love to see the 15010 - 15013.92 whole Import and Export and get better I 15014.04 - 15016.44 think that you know backup an 15016.6 - 15018.52 Administration can also be a place where 15019.04 - 15019.68 a really really 15021.56 - 15025.48 core um open collaborative project could 15025.64 - 15027.36 be really successful we have a few 15027.56 - 15029.8 examples of this maybe wpli being a good 15029.96 - 15031.32 example importers are a good example 15031.64 - 15033.56 Gutenberg itself is a good example but 15033.76 - 15034.84 this idea we used to call it canonical 15035.52 - 15038.92 plugins um still I think hasn't caught 15039.2 - 15040.96 on and so I've been thinking a lot about 15041.28 - 15043.32 like what's what's the infrastructure 15044.32 - 15046.16 that a plugin needs to be successful 15046.72 - 15048.96 like that yeah one of the big ones that 15049.12 - 15050.4 I just I know it's from personal 15050.8 - 15052.68 experience but like sending an email is 15052.84 - 15054.92 still really hard and that's like 15055.44 - 15058.04 extremely silly you know like I don't 15058.28 - 15060.08 like the fact that for years we relied 15060.4 - 15063.48 on MailChimp another service with a two 15063.88 - 15066.24 manual tie-in to do that uh someone who 15066.4 - 15067.76 you know well benom just released 15068.12 - 15070.12 something called passport uh to help 15070.32 - 15071.88 solve a similar problem and I agree with 15072 - 15073 you I think that's a lane that people 15073.2 - 15074.6 can go down and talk about this next 15074.84 - 15076.72 evolution of businesses that's one of 15076.84 - 15078 these things like you create a seamless 15078.64 - 15080.28 experience yeah for some of these ways 15080.6 - 15082.28 people use WordPress whether it's as a 15082.48 - 15085.88 distribution tool um there's no sense I 15086 - 15087.2 can't even remember the name I should 15087.44 - 15088.96 know everybody uses substack substack 15089.44 - 15090.6 should all be WordPress like it just 15090.72 - 15093.68 makes me sick seeing that um and or they 15093.8 - 15095.04 should be running WordPress on the back 15095.2 - 15096.48 end but there should be a competitor to 15097.04 - 15099.6 a substack that's fully open source and 15099.84 - 15101.4 and WordPress driven in my mind and I 15101.48 - 15103 think if people go down that lane 15103.28 - 15103.88 there's a lot of opportunity 15104.52 - 15107 economically for them and I think as 15107.16 - 15109.68 these sub ecosystems you know to I'm 15109.88 - 15111 close to our male poet and woocommerce 15111.88 - 15114.44 like as they continue to evolve you know 15114.8 - 15116.24 they're kind of where WordPress was in 15116.36 - 15118.8 the earlier days and so as they come 15119.04 - 15120.84 across that curve of becoming radically 15121.44 - 15125.8 easier to use I agree like hopefully uh 15126.08 - 15127.6 a substack equivalent could be something 15128.16 - 15131.32 that a motivated person builds in you 15131.44 - 15134.28 know a Sunday afternoon yeah because 15134.76 - 15137.08 piece together existing uh plugins that 15137.16 - 15138.76 are really robust there and it's easy to 15138.92 - 15142.08 do so um there still is always going to 15142.2 - 15144.64 be I think interfaces to the rest of the 15144.76 - 15146.96 world Commerce is a good example like 15147.64 - 15148.88 credit cards Finance 15150.16 - 15151.16 accounting um 15152.2 - 15156.04 shipping like these things are they need 15156.2 - 15157.96 to be Bridge layers right because 15158.32 - 15159.64 ultimately there's no there's no Bitcoin 15160 - 15162.36 of shipping you still need to like pick 15162.52 - 15164.76 up the box fly it across the world you 15164.84 - 15166 know there's something that needs to 15166.2 - 15167.76 happen when there's increase to the 15167.88 - 15169.92 physical world but I think that things 15170.2 - 15171.4 especially when it's all digital like a 15171.48 - 15174.92 substack is that should just become um 15175.12 - 15176.88 falling off a log or falling off a Blog 15177.32 - 15181.56 easy uh to implement yeah so I want to 15181.76 - 15182.96 talk about Commerce a little bit we've 15183.16 - 15185.84 talked about it some before but uh I 15186.08 - 15187.52 think I had speculated on this with you 15187.68 - 15189.2 before that woocommerce would be the 15189.28 - 15190.68 biggest part of automatic I don't know 15190.84 - 15193.2 if it is today uh but it's definitely 15193.6 - 15195.56 going to be this is it's got to be 15195.92 - 15197.64 what's going to drive if nothing else 15197.96 - 15199.4 the valuation of automatic when you see 15199.56 - 15200.84 the public valuations that things like 15201 - 15202.56 Shopify and big Commerce are getting and 15203.08 - 15205.24 W Commerce is well up there in terms of 15205.56 - 15208.36 the monetary value being provided uh to 15208.6 - 15210.52 store owners and every you know the 15210.68 - 15211.32 tools that are being 15212.08 - 15215.2 provided um what's your thought about 15215.6 - 15219.16 just where e-commerce uh fits into 15219.44 - 15221.04 WordPress and where woocommerce itself 15221.36 - 15223.56 is 15224.8 - 15227.44 going um well I think it goes back to 15227.92 - 15231.24 the automatics mission was identical to 15232.16 - 15233.76 wordpress's to democratized publishing 15234.4 - 15236.36 for like the first you know 10 years of 15236.48 - 15238.48 the company then we added two words and 15238.84 - 15240.96 commerce democratized publishing and 15241.52 - 15244.64 commerce and I think that W Commerce is 15244.76 - 15246.36 a really vibrant um 15248.08 - 15250.2 contributor basee ecosystem Marketplace 15251.12 - 15252.92 you know add-ons everything that reminds 15253.32 - 15255.84 me of the early days of Wordpress you 15255.92 - 15256.84 know fond is saying it feels like 15256.96 - 15259.28 WordPress in 2008 it is largely a 15259.4 - 15261.2 developer First Tool that's becoming 15261.56 - 15262.88 easier to use and more accessible with 15263 - 15265.08 every release there's tens of billions 15265.4 - 15266.76 of dollars of transactions happening 15267.08 - 15268.24 through it so it's enabling a ton of 15268.44 - 15270.56 value throughout the ecosystem and it's 15270.68 - 15272.56 doing so in a really open and inclusive 15273.16 - 15276.56 way so um wo is not the biggest part of 15276.68 - 15278.44 automatic yet but it is growing pretty 15278.8 - 15280.36 fast so it will be it will be don't 15280.48 - 15283.6 worry that team hoping to to be that 15284 - 15287.4 someday um but I you know I just get 15287.56 - 15289.6 really excited about it and it also I 15289.72 - 15291.72 see what it's done that's fun but also 15291.92 - 15293.32 there's so much left to do I think 15293.56 - 15294.4 actually just today or yesterday 15295.2 - 15297.92 woocommerce payments launched for you 15298.04 - 15299.2 know seven eight countries in Europe 15299.64 - 15300.8 highly relevant to this audience if 15300.88 - 15302.56 you're in France Spain Germany you can 15302.68 - 15304.24 now use this woocommerce payments which 15304.4 - 15306.72 was I think basically us only before a 15307.4 - 15311.28 Canada like that is that's so basic you 15311.44 - 15313.32 know we're opening up to like another 15313.68 - 15315.32 nine countries and there's you know 150 15315.84 - 15319.8 to go so each step that we take I'm 15320.04 - 15321.04 excited that there will be an 15321.24 - 15323.72 open-source Commerce layer for the web 15323.96 - 15325.92 operating system because I think that 15326.16 - 15329.36 that idea of being able to transact and 15329.52 - 15330.84 also how that's going to interact with 15331.12 - 15333 cryptocurrencies in the coming years 15334.6 - 15337 is going to change things faster faster 15337.28 - 15339.48 than people expect yeah and that's 15339.72 - 15341.6 that's my best kind of like Clairvoyant 15342.6 - 15345.56 crystal ball is um is the change is 15345.72 - 15347.4 going to happen far faster than anyone 15347.68 - 15350.76 will predict yeah I agree I'm gonna have 15350.88 - 15352.6 to have you come on a different show to 15352.72 - 15355.48 talk about that in more detail uh the 15355.6 - 15357.44 woocommerce homepage says build exactly 15357.88 - 15359.76 the e-commerce website you want and it 15359.88 - 15361.8 says start a new store or customize in 15361.96 - 15364.12 extend it seems like woocommerce has 15364.36 - 15367.44 really found its place in um um people 15367.72 - 15370.4 who want store experiences just as they 15370.6 - 15372.16 have in their mind like something they 15372.28 - 15374.08 can create that doesn't fit into the 15374.24 - 15376.72 same mold as a Marketplace or even a 15376.96 - 15378.72 guided kind of install like you might 15378.96 - 15380.56 get uh on something with a little more 15380.76 - 15381.28 control like a 15382.08 - 15384.76 Shopify are you seeing that play out 15385.16 - 15387.08 well like or is that uh something you're 15387.24 - 15389.08 seeing a ton of demand for or do you 15389.44 - 15391.44 think that's just simply where 15392.44 - 15395.08 woocommerce's best angle is um what are 15395.2 - 15396.52 your thoughts on that c 15397.64 - 15399.88 store experience and the demand that uh 15400 - 15400.64 the market sees for 15402.2 - 15404.12 that yeah if you look back to the early 15404.36 - 15406.28 days of word press most people were 15406.52 - 15408.76 publishing on centralized services like 15409 - 15409.52 live blog 15410.8 - 15415.28 blogger um MSN spaces Yahoo 360 these 15415.4 - 15417 were proprietary Clow services and they 15417.12 - 15418.76 provided really easy onboarding and 15419.24 - 15420.32 guess what hundreds of millions of 15420.4 - 15422.76 people used them um but as those people 15423.36 - 15425.88 began to you know get comfortable with 15426 - 15426.52 this idea of publish 15427.88 - 15429.96 um they began to want to color outside 15430.36 - 15431.8 the the lines you know do something 15432.12 - 15433.04 that's unique to them they didn't want 15433.12 - 15434.28 to look like every other site on the 15434.36 - 15436.24 internet and I think e-commerce is in 15436.4 - 15437.92 the same space where the vast majority 15438.24 - 15439.56 of e-commerce is centralized through 15439.8 - 15441.68 through player few players you know 15442.12 - 15444.12 Amazon's and Walmarts and flip carts and 15444.36 - 15447.6 kubang of the world alib Babas and um 15448.28 - 15450.16 you know that's great for showing people 15450.4 - 15452.2 the power of what it's like to connect 15452.44 - 15453.88 with a customer anywhere in the world or 15454 - 15455.72 sell something online yeah and they make 15455.88 - 15457.92 that onboarding really really easy but 15458.04 - 15460.48 the Next Generation both the people who 15460.6 - 15462.28 are getting large and been very 15462.48 - 15463.64 successful in hundreds of millions of 15463.76 - 15465.56 billions of dollars of Revenue or the 15465.72 - 15467 next generation wants to distinguish 15467.68 - 15469.72 themselves and open source is the best 15469.92 - 15471.16 way to do that because you have complete 15471.52 - 15473.72 control over your future and it's not 15473.96 - 15477.4 about customizing it's about owning your 15477.68 - 15480.36 destiny it's about being in true control 15481.04 - 15482.92 of of what you're going to be able to do 15483.52 - 15485.12 guess what in 2003 WordPress was way 15485.32 - 15486.44 worse than all those others that we just 15487.64 - 15491.28 like remarkably worse yeah in every way 15492 - 15492.8 except giving people 15493.92 - 15495.96 freedom and that freedom is the killer 15496.24 - 15497.6 feature of Open Source and it's the 15497.76 - 15498.8 thing that will win out every single 15499.12 - 15500.88 time and it's so powerful because it's 15501.04 - 15502.32 the thing that the proprietary companies 15503.32 - 15505.08 will never be able to do fully because 15505.36 - 15507.2 their own success contains the seeds of 15507.32 - 15509.52 their demise that as they become more 15509.72 - 15512.32 successful the thing that that has made 15512.56 - 15514.44 them there that then becomes their 15514.76 - 15516.88 embedded growth obligations of like the 15517.04 - 15518.92 public markets or anything else will not 15519.12 - 15520.6 allow them to create the thing that the 15520.72 - 15522.28 people really want and give them the 15522.36 - 15524.6 flexibility they truly need right every 15524.8 - 15526.12 Facebook profile and Twitter profile 15526.44 - 15528.08 needs to look the same because they need 15528.24 - 15529.64 them look the same so they can show ads 15529.88 - 15532.08 in a certain place well guess what the 15532.2 - 15534.24 Next Generation maybe wants to express 15534.76 - 15536.6 themselves more every generation I think 15536.84 - 15538.32 wants to express themselves more that is 15538.76 - 15540.8 as a human The Arc of human progress is 15541 - 15542.56 much more I would bet on that side of 15542.72 - 15543.96 things they're going to want more 15544.2 - 15545.88 control over how that looks and the 15546 - 15547.4 generation of ERS coming up on substack 15548.2 - 15549.88 at some point you're going to say not 15550.08 - 15551.92 just the fee the 10% but like actually 15552.44 - 15554.68 the experience you know it has some the 15554.8 - 15555.92 downsides of medium where every site 15556.12 - 15558.56 kind of looks the same like what does it 15558.76 - 15561.64 mean to truly own that relationship to 15561.84 - 15564.44 the subscriber and you know own the 15564.6 - 15565.84 design and the experience and the 15565.96 - 15567.48 commenting and the interactions actually 15567.68 - 15568.92 to the credit subst does some great 15569.12 - 15570.24 stuff like I think they let you take 15570.4 - 15572.52 your subscribers and billing away if you 15572.6 - 15575.24 wanted to so they have Incorporated some 15575.48 - 15576.64 elements of openness and I think think 15576.72 - 15577.6 it's part of the reason they've been so 15577.92 - 15580.48 successful yeah but you know 10 years I 15580.56 - 15581.8 think either substack becomes open 15582.08 - 15583.04 source or it's replaced by something 15583.28 - 15583.56 that is open 15584.88 - 15587.28 source so five years ago we talked about 15588.2 - 15590.76 uh two platforms that had a simpler 15591.72 - 15593.12 publishing experience at the time than 15593.44 - 15595.84 WordPress medium and Tumblr you had 15596 - 15596.6 thoughts on both of 15597.48 - 15599.68 them what did I say about each huh 15599.84 - 15602.72 that's funny uh we you I talked about 15602.92 - 15605.84 the Potential Threat of of medium and uh 15606 - 15607.4 the publishing experience and I actually 15607.68 - 15610.84 would say that previous medium 15611.36 - 15612.96 experience was like quite simple and 15613.08 - 15614.48 that's a lot you know Gutenberg took 15614.68 - 15616.24 some hints in terms of that down the 15616.4 - 15620.32 page block style uh editing but we've 15620.56 - 15622.32 seen like medium medium is on The 15622.4 - 15623.56 Struggle Bus I guess I don't know 15623.88 - 15625.2 another way to put it in terms of a 15625.44 - 15626.88 business model to match its publishing 15627.32 - 15628.72 system and they've done more and more 15629.12 - 15631.16 like kind of egregious things like don't 15631.4 - 15633.2 read this until you log in and you know 15633.32 - 15634.92 the other stuff and taking power away 15635.12 - 15636.32 from those Publishers and trying to put 15636.48 - 15638.16 put them on medium and all the drama 15638.48 - 15639.72 that's existed around medium for a while 15640.24 - 15641.88 Tumblr you were quite complimentary of 15642.08 - 15643.6 at the time and talked about how they 15643.72 - 15647.64 were a very worthy competitor and I uh 15647.8 - 15649.88 had joked about how you know it would be 15650.04 - 15653.2 cool if somebody um or if the the Tumblr 15653.64 - 15654.88 Founders bought it back from them but 15655 - 15657.36 instead automatic bought it back from 15657.6 - 15659.64 Yahoo and so Tumblr is part of the 15659.8 - 15662.8 automatic family today um and to switch 15663 - 15664.16 it to be powered by WordPress on the 15664.28 - 15666.68 back ends how is that going uh have 15666.84 - 15668.52 y'all what's going on there with the 15668.76 - 15669.32 with the Tumblr WordPress 15671 - 15673.44 conversion H well I guess first I'll say 15673.72 - 15675.92 that I think you just answered it just I 15676.04 - 15677.24 know I don't think medium's on The 15677.32 - 15678.88 Struggle Bus you know I think they're 15679.08 - 15680.08 actually doing some of the most 15680.28 - 15681.8 interesting work since the start of the 15682.24 - 15685.48 company and yeah May I'm just not 15685.64 - 15687.84 keeping up as a consumer as a consumer I 15687.92 - 15689.56 don't want to read anything on medium ah 15690.24 - 15692.16 yeah if EV wanted to sell it EV if 15692.24 - 15694.44 you're listening to this happy to talk I 15694.52 - 15695.4 think that we could do some really 15695.6 - 15697.16 interesting things together for it can I 15697.24 - 15697.76 get a commission on 15698.88 - 15700.92 that we'll get you a free medium site 15701.48 - 15704.6 yeah there you go for Tumblr uh you know 15704.76 - 15706.6 taking it on I think they'd had a lot of 15706.72 - 15708.52 challenges um in kind of the years since 15708.72 - 15710.72 our last interview and the time when 15711 - 15712.32 when automatic acquired it which I think 15712.52 - 15712.88 was uh late 15713.76 - 15716.72 2019 and in particular I think you know 15717.56 - 15719.48 as kind of a social network as well as 15719.68 - 15720.88 as a blogging tool something that 15721.08 - 15722.08 actually I think combines the best of 15722.32 - 15725.64 both um the kind of safety and 15725.8 - 15728.4 moderation spam issue was really large 15728.68 - 15730.24 on it and I I think I probably 15730.52 - 15732.12 underestimated how much work it would be 15732.64 - 15735.04 to really Camp down yeah we have a lot 15735.2 - 15736.68 of experience fighting spam with things 15736.84 - 15741.4 like a and even press.com um but uh for 15741.64 - 15743.48 us as well we we've invested quite a bit 15744.04 - 15745.52 now the bright side of that which is 15745.68 - 15749.04 where we are now is that Tumblr is maybe 15749.32 - 15751.52 one of the the the cleanest funnest 15752.04 - 15753.44 places on you can spend time on the 15753.8 - 15757.28 internet so a lot of the the you know 15758.16 - 15760.36 Bots and everything are gone spam are 15760.48 - 15763.44 gone and it's become like this Oasis of 15763.72 - 15765.56 of creativity and sharing have the 15765.68 - 15768.64 communities really uh continued on and 15768.88 - 15771.88 and or thrived uh since the transition I 15771.96 - 15773.36 know there was some discussion about 15773.64 - 15775.28 like what content would still be able to 15775.4 - 15777.16 be there and all that kind of stuff well 15777.32 - 15779.28 that's what's so amazing is that the 15779.64 - 15782.48 primary demographic of Tumblr is not 15782.72 - 15784.32 people who used Tumblr 10 years ago and 15784.44 - 15787.84 still like it it's 13 to 24 so oh wow 15788.08 - 15790.2 youth is flocking to Tumblr and over 15790.52 - 15792.56 half of them do not use another social 15792.88 - 15795.64 network so it is you know tumblr's model 15795.92 - 15798.8 right now is advertising and so like 15799.56 - 15800.92 that it has a unique audience that's 15801.12 - 15802.24 super super valuable it's kind of the 15802.36 - 15804.96 next generation is there and they're not 15805.32 - 15806.28 you can't reach them through these other 15806.48 - 15808.44 networks um a lot of the challenge is 15808.56 - 15810.32 something that's relatively new to to me 15810.52 - 15812.24 in automatic which is saying like you 15812.36 - 15814.6 know how do we get the the Louis Vuitton 15815.04 - 15816.52 and the Kate Spades and the Amazon 15817 - 15819.44 primes to like you know write a check to 15819.96 - 15821.4 to advertise on Tumblr and then how do 15821.52 - 15823.32 we make those ads actually something 15823.8 - 15825.56 that that it fits as part of the really 15825.76 - 15828.08 unique experience right because we just 15828.16 - 15829.4 had a banner out in there it would just 15829.52 - 15831.32 feel like a record scratch and and how 15831.52 - 15833.32 Tumblr Tumbl Community interacts with 15833.48 - 15837.2 things so I would say our primary uh 15837.32 - 15839.84 goal there is still just making the 15840.04 - 15843.76 software super robust and work and the 15844 - 15847.08 the kind of safety and anti-spam as to 15847.24 - 15848.68 the same level as everything else that 15848.8 - 15851.16 automatic operates and as we accomplish 15851.76 - 15853.44 that I think that you'll start to see 15854.2 - 15855.64 and have start to see like more 15855.92 - 15858.88 engagement more activity and then you 15859.16 - 15860.72 the next time Instagram shows you 15861.08 - 15862.64 decides it needs to show you more ads 15863.64 - 15865.12 maybe people say well let me I can't 15865.28 - 15866.76 handle it anymore I can't handle it 15866.92 - 15868.24 anymore I don't like I really don't use 15868.48 - 15869.96 Instagram near as much as I did because 15870.96 - 15873.72 uh it got taken over like I I I only 15874.08 - 15875.64 have Instagram to look at stuff from my 15875.72 - 15878.96 friends and family and now you know you 15879.16 - 15881.16 go look visit a website with a pair of 15881.24 - 15883.52 shoes on it and you get 20 shoe ads 15883.88 - 15886.04 every day for you know every time you 15886.16 - 15889.16 log in Instagram um that said said that 15889.32 - 15890.68 success contains the seeds of its own 15890.88 - 15893.6 demise yeah and th and that those 15893.76 - 15896.8 dollars go to Facebook and one of the 15896.96 - 15898.44 things content creators desperately 15899.44 - 15901.84 desire is a way to monetize in a way 15902.04 - 15903.88 that is not totally intrusive on the 15904.08 - 15906.6 visitor's experience but does them to 15907.24 - 15908.76 create value from their content we got 15908.88 - 15910.28 more and more like influencer type 15910.52 - 15912.84 people as well so like pure attention is 15913 - 15914.72 how they monetize so is that one of the 15914.84 - 15916.96 goals for what people can do if they're 15917.12 - 15918.32 on Tumblr is to be able to monetize 15919.4 - 15922.6 attention 100% so I think I've said this 15922.76 - 15923.92 publicly for both Tumblr and 15924.2 - 15925.88 wordpress.com if not I guess this is 15926.08 - 15927.4 announcement but we want to make it very 15927.64 - 15930.24 very easy for people to take tips to 15930.4 - 15933.24 have memberships to have sell you know 15933.48 - 15935.72 exclusive content pay newsletters all of 15935.88 - 15938.6 that 15936.68 - 15938.4 and I don't think this is unique to to 15938.6 - 15940.32 automatics products I think that really 15940.6 - 15944.08 every social network is is moving to an 15944.2 - 15945.44 upgrade model kind of like wordpress.com 15946.12 - 15947.64 has had for many many years and I'd love 15947.84 - 15950.12 there to be like a Tumblr pro version or 15950.32 - 15951.92 gold or whatever we call it yeah then 15952.16 - 15955.4 also just allowing um creators to 15955.6 - 15956.88 connect with their audience and that 15957.08 - 15959.64 audience to support them you know one of 15959.72 - 15961.12 my best friends is and I heard a great 15961.32 - 15962.48 story about one of his cousins the other 15962.72 - 15966.12 day um it's a 12-year-old who's making 15966.84 - 15970.24 Tik Tok videos teaching people um you 15970.4 - 15973.84 know essentially iOS tricks and tips so 15974.08 - 15976.72 it's amazing sh sharing this and she now 15976.92 - 15979.12 as a 12-year-old got 500 is getting $500 15979.8 - 15982.68 a month in tips wow that's just a lot of 15982.84 - 15984.68 money for anyone 12 and a lot of money 15985.52 - 15987.6 uh where she lives so that's like that's 15987.8 - 15988.96 kind of amazing and this is what 15989.2 - 15992 technology can enable is you know she's 15992.4 - 15993.56 not just connecting She's Not Just 15993.72 - 15995.6 teaching iOS tips and tricks to her 15996.04 - 15998.6 family or people in her geography she's 15998.88 - 16000.92 reaching all Hindi speakers potentially 16001.32 - 16003.04 in the world through a platform that 16003.16 - 16005.24 allows that to do and really allows us 16005.4 - 16006.88 the best content to rise at the top and 16006.96 - 16008.56 so even people tipping 30 40 rupees 16009.16 - 16010.6 eventually has added up to quite a large 16010.84 - 16012.84 amount so that is such the cool story 16013.84 - 16016.56 and I think that that is that Creator 16017.08 - 16019.12 economy is um is very much the future 16019.68 - 16021.12 and actually I'm also curious how that 16021.28 - 16023.72 could work uh within WordPress more you 16023.84 - 16025.16 know I like some of we've always had 16025.36 - 16027.44 kind of like a donate or tip thing built 16027.68 - 16029.28 into the directory but how could we make 16029.48 - 16031.68 that maybe even more friction free and 16032 - 16034.12 also encourage it in a way that rewards 16034.6 - 16036.44 everyone who contributes you know one of 16036.52 - 16037.88 the downsides of actually donations in 16038 - 16039.8 the past which is who does the go 16039.96 - 16042.44 donation go to right I this issue before 16042.88 - 16044.6 like when when donations for WordPress 16045.2 - 16045.76 just came to my 16046.56 - 16048.96 PayPal well what about everyone else 16049.64 - 16050.92 what about Ryan what about Mike what 16051 - 16052.32 about Alex like how do we how do we 16052.48 - 16055.04 divide this up how do we split this and 16055.2 - 16056.48 that's eventually we were like hey we're 16056.6 - 16057.92 just going to stop taking this stop 16058.2 - 16060.32 soliciting it because it doesn't seem to 16060.44 - 16062.2 be a fair way to recognize the 16062.4 - 16063.92 contributions of like the translators 16064.4 - 16065.68 and documenters and like all the people 16066.12 - 16068.48 doing this um it's why the foundation 16069.24 - 16071.32 doesn't like you know is minimal it has 16071.44 - 16072.76 zero employees like how do you really 16073.52 - 16076.48 share it in a way that um encourages 16077.12 - 16079.76 everyone so I I'm curious to figure 16080.08 - 16081.04 something out there maybe 16081.88 - 16084.36 the I think there's so much so much 16084.56 - 16086.6 potential there I've seen it with uh 16087.28 - 16088.56 restrictive terms and conditions on 16088.76 - 16090.36 Twitch streamers I've seen it with 16090.64 - 16093.92 social media creators um and like you 16094 - 16095.32 said those companies that make decisions 16095.68 - 16096.8 that eventually lead to their own demise 16097.36 - 16099.68 hopefully uh the open ecosystems are 16099.88 - 16102.16 there to pick up the pieces and to offer 16102.48 - 16104.16 a place with greater freedom and greater 16105.32 - 16108.08 uh percentage of the the economic output 16108.84 - 16110.44 in those in those ecosystems that go 16110.6 - 16112.16 straight to them I think would be very 16112.4 - 16114.12 powerful and I want to clarify the 16114.24 - 16115.04 demise because it doesn't necessarily 16115.36 - 16116.6 mean demise Instagram's not going 16116.8 - 16117.88 anywhere probably yeah they're gonna 16118.04 - 16119.56 keep making a lot of money but it 16119.68 - 16121.56 creates the opportunities right right 16121.76 - 16123.56 and that's what's key is you know 16123.84 - 16126.48 Windows is still around but gosh did 16126.68 - 16128 they create a real opportunity through 16128.2 - 16129.92 the Clos way they were running it for 16130.28 - 16132.6 Linux and Mac OS and IOS and Android and 16132.72 - 16134.04 all these other operating systems and 16134.2 - 16137.24 now comprise 95% plus of of all devices 16137.68 - 16139.68 people interact with so you know where 16140.28 - 16142.64 does the kind of selfish greedy 16143.2 - 16144.36 self-interested Behavior create 16144.68 - 16145.52 opportunities for something to 16146.36 - 16148.56 to um supplant it over time and often 16148.76 - 16150.6 it's not that the one for one you know 16151.24 - 16153.36 it's that the thing that replaces it is 16153.52 - 16155.92 something that the the old system could 16156.04 - 16156.2 have never 16157 - 16159.28 imagined Robert jacobe asked how do you 16159.4 - 16160.92 think about making word press exciting 16161.32 - 16163.16 and compelling to encourage the next 16163.6 - 16165.6 generation of volunteers and let's just 16165.76 - 16167.68 tack on you know contributors and and 16167.84 - 16169.56 people looking to to build their 16169.92 - 16171.8 business or career uh within the 16171.88 - 16176.6 WordPress 16173.96 - 16176.4 ecosystem you know I cannot wait to get 16176.6 - 16176.92 back to events 16178.12 - 16181.2 again yeah how fun is it to like you 16181.28 - 16183.48 know I love after a talk Work Camp here 16183.84 - 16185.2 like spending an hour or two just 16185.32 - 16186.52 talking to everyone who comes up to say 16186.76 - 16188.2 hi and then at the the parties 16188.52 - 16190.08 afterwards and just allowing those 16190.28 - 16192 connections I think has been a big part 16192.2 - 16193.88 of of a lot of people active in 16194.4 - 16196.16 wordpress's um connection to the 16196.24 - 16197.52 community and getting to know each other 16198.2 - 16199.92 not just as contributors but as full 16200.2 - 16202.04 people and that's one of my favorite 16202.36 - 16203.56 things is like learning the weird 16203.8 - 16205.24 Hobbies learning the Back stories what 16205.36 - 16207.32 led people to Wordpress and so I'm 16207.48 - 16209.4 excited to get back to events and in the 16209.52 - 16212.36 meantime I think that if we can sort of 16212.56 - 16214.04 create some sort of cohort-based online 16214.72 - 16217.36 learning the learn. WordPress the other 16217.68 - 16219.64 things that allow people to make those 16219.84 - 16222.6 connections online I think that what the 16222.76 - 16224.4 lockdown the pandemic has allowed and 16224.56 - 16227.32 shown people is that you can really 16227.56 - 16228.84 become great friends and connect with 16229.04 - 16230.84 folks that you aren't seeing physically 16231.76 - 16233.36 and so we'll definitely going to get 16233.52 - 16235 back to events as soon as possible and 16235.12 - 16237.2 it's safe to do do so but let's not 16237.44 - 16239.48 waste this opportunity to figure out how 16239.6 - 16241.8 to radically open not just a 100,000 16242.36 - 16243.72 people every year that attend a workamp 16244.72 - 16246.92 um but to the millions that WordPress 16247.48 - 16249.32 could transform their life knowing this 16249.56 - 16251.56 technology becoming GL Gutenberg fluent 16252.56 - 16254.96 um could actually change their entire 16255.36 - 16256.8 life who they connect with how they make 16256.96 - 16259.8 money everything so uh we we need to 16259.96 - 16262.16 think about those 7.9 billion people who 16262.48 - 16263.6 are never going to come to a work camp 16263.8 - 16264.84 and maybe even haven't heard a work 16265.04 - 16268.48 press yet and how we onboard them Matt 16268.68 - 16269.96 we have to leave it there it's time for 16270.16 - 16271.64 closing remarks I want to say thank you 16271.8 - 16273.6 so much for talking to me today thanks 16273.84 - 16275.32 everybody for listening it's been an 16275.48 - 16278.48 absolute pleasure and uh yeah have a 16278.6 - 16280.4 great day hey and let me take this 16280.6 - 16282.68 opportunity Brian to thank you for all 16282.84 - 16284.44 that you've contributed and done for the 16284.56 - 16287.12 WordPress community over the years uh we 16287.24 - 16289.08 will miss you quite a bit hope to see 16289.24 - 16291.24 you back maybe in a decade or two but 16291.36 - 16292.92 we'll still be here I'll still be here 16293.12 - 16294.4 I'm just a word presser now though I'm 16294.52 - 16297 not a I don't have any any other role 16297.44 - 16299.24 but I'm uh you can't take WordPress away 16299.4 - 16301.44 from me I I'll I'll put on my half for a 16301.52 - 16302.56 second and say on behalf of the 16302.64 - 16303.76 WordPress commune thank you for 16303.92 - 16306.2 everything you've done and inspiration 16306.6 - 16308.16 to Future generations of analysts and 16308.32 - 16309.52 contributors and writers and journalists 16309.96 - 16311.2 and everything so thank you so 16313.16 - 16316.16 much 16324.48 - 16327.48 cool 16336.12 - 16346.96 [Music] 16347.72 - 16350 well everything has finished everything 16350.36 - 16353.68 has an end right I can't believe it I 16353.84 - 16355.16 can't believe these three days went so 16355.56 - 16357.72 quickly but what a fantastic way to end 16358.24 - 16362.4 it oh yes yes I think this moment format 16363.4 - 16366.24 Matias and Brian was amazing and we 16366.4 - 16369.32 learn a lot of new stuff that is going 16369.56 - 16371.84 to be in worldpress in the next days 16372.32 - 16375.08 weeks in the next version and and the 16375.24 - 16377.68 interview I think it has very 16378.08 - 16380.52 interesting interesting questions so 16381.2 - 16381.84 yeah really 16384.36 - 16388.28 good really good so as you know this is 16388.4 - 16390.16 the second year we are helding work bu 16390.8 - 16393.76 in its online version everyone comes 16394.16 - 16396.2 together for all across the world to 16396.48 - 16399.24 share H their knowledge to have fun to 16399.48 - 16403.16 learn at workamp Europe 2021 and this is 16403.4 - 16407.32 what it's all about people community the 16407.48 - 16410.08 WordPress and open source communities so 16410.52 - 16413 thank you everyone for being here thank 16413.16 - 16415.48 you all of you for being here um for 16415.72 - 16418.08 being part of this event thank you so 16418.28 - 16421.72 much thank you so a year ago we made the 16422 - 16424.44 controversial at that time decision to 16425.04 - 16428.44 hold word Camp Europe uh 2021 online 16429.44 - 16431.08 back then we didn't know what the world 16431.44 - 16433.64 was going to look like now and in 16433.92 - 16436.28 hindsight we're happy that we chose to 16436.44 - 16438.12 hold it online it ended up being the 16438.28 - 16440 right decision and I want to show you 16440.24 - 16443.28 some numbers about why we think it ended 16443.64 - 16445.56 up being the right decision could we 16445.72 - 16446.16 have the presentation 16448.52 - 16451.88 please so this is the beauty we had more 16452.2 - 16455.04 than 3,000 people registered to join us 16455.2 - 16457.76 at word Camp Europe and at our height we 16457.92 - 16461.04 had more than 1,800 people signed on and 16461.2 - 16462.96 what's so cool about that is those may 16463.16 - 16465.96 not be you know ginormous numbers but 16466.72 - 16469.56 this is the cool part we were from all 16469.92 - 16472.32 over the world so this controversial 16473 - 16474.96 decision to have an online event where 16475.32 - 16476.68 people were worried you know it won't be 16476.92 - 16478.6 the same and I'll miss everyone 16479.52 - 16481.88 absolutely true it wasn't the same and 16482 - 16483.64 we do miss you I would much rather be 16483.8 - 16486.36 hugging you but yes look at all of these 16486.6 - 16488 countries that were able to come 16488.52 - 16491.24 together o over a hundred and this isn't 16491.48 - 16492.68 even all of them we couldn't list them 16492.8 - 16493.76 all because it would take too much 16495.68 - 16498.6 space that's true that's true and all 16498.96 - 16502.76 this countries cover a white area you 16502.92 - 16506.32 are talking about 13 times SS all over 16506.56 - 16509 the glob just two left I don't think in 16509.12 - 16512.4 the Pacific area I I I was watching the 16512.64 - 16515.32 map and doing the calculations and and 16515.6 - 16517.72 this is amazing again a lot of people 16518.16 - 16520.16 from many countries all around the world 16520.44 - 16521.8 which is something fantastic 16524.04 - 16526.04 yes but not is the only 16527.48 - 16530.36 thing with this virtual event we want to 16530.76 - 16533.92 do some a lot of new things but there 16534.04 - 16536.8 are things that are always here we are 16536.96 - 16538.96 talking about decisions in in this case 16539.2 - 16542.32 29 different decisions with 48 speakers 16542.88 - 16544.72 presenter and panelists a lot of people 16545.44 - 16547.6 a lot of organization and Logistics a 16547.76 - 16549.36 lot of people contributing to this event 16549.68 - 16553.32 to do it the the biggest European uh 16553.64 - 16556.24 WordPress event and 18 sponsors 16556.72 - 16559 interview this is something new one of 16559.2 - 16562.64 the new things we did for this event so 16563.32 - 16564.32 marvelous yes 16565.88 - 16567.48 we've got a lot of new things this year 16568.12 - 16569.84 um it was an online event as I've 16570.04 - 16571.2 already mentioned but one of the things 16571.4 - 16573.48 I want to say that I think is so great 16573.88 - 16576.36 about the online event is and this is a 16576.48 - 16578.12 funny one maybe think about all the 16578.28 - 16580.84 money we all saved we it's a bummer that 16581 - 16582.52 we didn't get to travel but at the same 16582.8 - 16584.6 time we didn't have to get hotels or 16584.84 - 16587.12 train tickets or plane tickets and for 16587.4 - 16589.28 those of us for whom it's difficult to 16589.48 - 16591.12 get out of the house this was a very 16591.52 - 16593.2 accessible event they got to participate 16593.8 - 16594.84 the same way as everyone else 16595.64 - 16598.4 really really cool that way we also this 16598.6 - 16601.48 year uniquely split up instead of having 16601.84 - 16603.92 contributor day as a separate day we 16604.12 - 16605.96 took it and we made it a part of the 16606.12 - 16609.12 event so track two was contributor day 16609.68 - 16611.72 effectively and that feels like it 16612.04 - 16614.12 elevates the role of contributors in 16614.28 - 16617.12 WordPress we're really proud of that as 16617.28 - 16619.08 mono just said we invited our sponsors 16619.68 - 16621.72 on stage with us to talk about how they 16622 - 16624.24 contribute to the WordPress Community to 16624.44 - 16626.16 this EOS system that we all know and 16626.36 - 16628.6 love and I think that worked out so well 16629 - 16630.92 I actually learned so much about how 16631.32 - 16634.88 these companies have been giving time to 16635.2 - 16638.52 make WordPress work so cool and then of 16638.68 - 16640.36 course we can't go without saying the 16640.52 - 16643.48 event platform that we used hubo worked 16643.88 - 16645.2 really well we heard a lot of 16645.44 - 16647.04 compliments and that was new this year 16647.36 - 16652.88 as 16648.84 - 16652.68 well yes that's true well but the 16652.88 - 16654.72 community doesn't end with the event 16656.36 - 16658.76 as you can see here there are online and 16659 - 16661.52 local meetups and works work camps that 16661.72 - 16664.8 at this moment are still H organized in 16664.92 - 16667.56 a virtual mode but but if everything 16668 - 16671.12 goes well and the way we imagine or we 16671.36 - 16674.32 hope it's going to be I think we'll have 16674.68 - 16677.48 the first uh physical potential Events 16678.48 - 16680.84 maybe at the end of this year maybe if 16681 - 16684.96 not in 2022 please think think fingers 16685.48 - 16687.84 crossed will'll have the pleasure of 16688.72 - 16692.04 going there and give all of you a big 16692.32 - 16694.24 hack I don't know the other day we were 16694.44 - 16697.64 talking about H doing a hack work so 16697.96 - 16700.44 before starting at the first real work 16701.24 - 16704.68 let's let's let's gather all together 16705.2 - 16706.64 and just for for huging 16707.6 - 16710.32 everyone I want to call it hug Camp can 16710.48 - 16712.04 we have hug camp and bir 16713.72 - 16716.64 Camp yes the but the truth is is the 16716.76 - 16719.76 next one during the event you had the 16719.88 - 16722.32 opportunity to watch what's happening in 16722.52 - 16724.24 the track number two talking about 16724.84 - 16727.04 contributing to the community you had 16727.24 - 16729.68 the opportunity to heard directly from 16729.88 - 16731.92 the sponsors that most of them are in 16732.04 - 16734.68 the fight for the future uh in the F for 16734.84 - 16737.04 the future they are there helping and 16737.48 - 16739.36 contributing to workplace so there are 16739.8 - 16742.96 many ways you can start contributing or 16743.8 - 16746.16 still doing your contribution get 16746.44 - 16748.6 started contributing to Wordpress please 16748.96 - 16751.08 pay attention to this link and you will 16751.4 - 16753.68 have information about the different 16754 - 16757.92 ways you have it's uh the work Europe is 16758.04 - 16760.2 finishing at this moment but the ways of 16760.4 - 16761.72 contributing and the your contribution 16762.2 - 16766.08 time starts now yes and this page that 16766.2 - 16768 we've posted on the word Camp Europe 16768.6 - 16772.4 20201 site it it has a ton of resources 16773.04 - 16775.04 for you so that you can learn how to 16775.28 - 16777.76 continue to contribute to Wordpress how 16777.84 - 16779.12 to get started if you've never done it 16779.32 - 16781.56 before how to dig in if maybe you did it 16781.68 - 16784.28 in the past and you'd like to restart it 16784.44 - 16787.84 is a resource that is co-produced by the 16788.04 - 16791.16 word Camp Europe contributing team and 16791.52 - 16793.28 as well as the marketing team and with 16793.44 - 16796.92 support from some other make teams um it 16797.04 - 16799.48 will continue to be added to uh on the 16799.6 - 16801.12 WordPress section of the website during 16801.36 - 16803.72 the next week or so and to help people 16803.96 - 16805.24 link up with information on 16805.52 - 16807.68 wordpress.org there's lots of added 16808.04 - 16810.4 materials shared uh during the last few 16810.68 - 16812.88 days that will be coming out of the 16813.04 - 16814.88 actual sessions that were here will be 16815.12 - 16817.04 added to this site so we hope that 16817.16 - 16819.8 you'll use this as a springboard to 16820.2 - 16824.52 continue 16822.24 - 16823.92 contributing there is something more 16824.52 - 16826.84 there is something more as you can as 16827 - 16829.2 you as you know uh next year we'll have 16829.4 - 16831.64 a workup Europe again well at this 16831.8 - 16834.04 moment we hope to do it in Porto 16835.28 - 16837.04 H but it doesn't matter if it's a 16837.28 - 16839.28 virtual mode of it's a presential event 16840.04 - 16842.24 you have the uh you have the chance of 16842.68 - 16846.32 uh join the organization team and I can 16846.52 - 16848.68 assure you this is a real good 16849.04 - 16851 experience for you not only in the 16851.16 - 16852.48 personal way but also in the 16852.68 - 16855.48 professional way and as it happened on 16855.64 - 16858 Monday my neighbor is starting to do 16858.32 - 16862.04 thiss at home and this is incredible the 16862.24 - 16864.32 best moment so please take 16865.4 - 16868.48 this this link into account please join 16868.8 - 16870.32 us because this is a really good 16870.6 - 16872.68 experience for you not only for knowing 16873 - 16875.4 a lot of amazing and incredible people 16876.08 - 16878.44 to work with but also for contributing 16879.36 - 16881.48 uh to Wordpress in well the biggest 16882 - 16885.64 European WordPress event ever yes let's 16885.88 - 16887.84 hope it will be important let's hope 16888.24 - 16892 let's 16889.48 - 16891.84 hope so you have all seen these 16892 - 16893.84 interviews with our sponsors many of 16894 - 16895.76 them talking about the great ways that 16895.92 - 16897 they've contributed to the WordPress 16897.68 - 16900.88 community and you can join them whether 16901.16 - 16902.8 you are an individual or you run a 16902.96 - 16905 company by joining the five for the 16905.12 - 16907.24 future program so five for the future 16907.8 - 16910.72 encourages people to donate 5% of 16911.16 - 16912.8 company resources typically but maybe 16913.04 - 16915.8 it's 5% of your own personal time to the 16915.96 - 16917.24 WordPress Community to collectively 16918.04 - 16920.32 support this effort that we all know and 16920.52 - 16922.64 love and they've set up a website so you 16922.72 - 16924.28 can go and read more about it read more 16924.68 - 16925.8 about the organizations that are already 16926.08 - 16927.16 involved and sign up 16929.44 - 16932.36 yourself and of course we like to say 16932.72 - 16935.48 thank you again and again and again all 16935.64 - 16939.04 the times we need necessary because 16939.6 - 16942.64 without them this this event is it won't 16942.92 - 16945.52 be possible and not only workan buau 16946.44 - 16949.36 but all the all the events around the 16949.52 - 16952.16 world regarding WordPress even now even 16952.44 - 16954.56 now that most of the events are meetups 16955.56 - 16958.12 and work camps are still online uh 16958.28 - 16960.48 sponsors are there helping and 16960.84 - 16963.24 contributing in order to have the 16963.52 - 16965.24 possibility to organize this so thank 16965.4 - 16967.44 you again sponsors for your contribution 16968.16 - 16971.52 for your time for well I hope you like 16972 - 16974.08 all with this uh for you with this new 16974.44 - 16976.28 platform with all the launches the 16976.44 - 16980.52 virtual wo and the interviews and uh so 16981.16 - 16984.12 let's name them again yes let's start 16984.36 - 16986.76 with with the super admin thank you 16987 - 16990.84 GoDaddy 16988.64 - 16989.8 pro thank you 16990.84 - 16992.12 jetpack thank you raid 16993.16 - 16996.48 boxes thank you s ground thank you w 16997.52 - 16998.92 Commerce thank you WP 17000.28 - 17002.72 engine thank you Yos I wish I knew how 17002.8 - 17004.88 to say thank you in Dutch but thank you 17005.08 - 17006.16 Yos um thank 17007.88 - 17009.16 you I don't know 17010.48 - 17014.64 sorry thank you thank you D extended and 17016.12 - 17018.8 Google thank you ionos Molly payments 17019.16 - 17023.68 and 17020.48 - 17023.04 Pantheon thank you that online domains 17023.68 - 17027.08 gravity forms and WP mu def I always 17027.56 - 17030.6 have a problem with his name sorry thank 17030.76 - 17032.6 you to our editor sponsors as well we 17032.8 - 17035.6 wish well we know we will name you do me 17036.2 - 17040.12 10 web 20i the Ali Collective A2 blue 17041.36 - 17044.64 host bu sit Commerce Cloud waste ecwp 17045.6 - 17046.36 Elemental fantasy 17048.88 - 17049.88 imagify clavio 17051.24 - 17055.4 multicab and Patch stack stratic vpe WG 17056.64 - 17062.12 pigment wigl WP rocket WPS scan WP WPS 17063.12 - 17067.04 WS form and ye thank you all so much 17068.04 - 17070.2 thank you so and of course thank you to 17070.4 - 17072.92 our organizing team these people are the 17073.08 - 17074.16 people who made this event possible 17074.4 - 17076.44 possible for you so these folks signed 17076.8 - 17079.48 up to work on this effort last year this 17079.76 - 17082.68 time and then stuck with us when we 17082.88 - 17085.2 decided to be online and then stuck with 17085.36 - 17086.52 us when we decided to have an online 17086.88 - 17088.68 platform none of us had ever used and 17088.84 - 17091.08 did all of this and they have donated so 17091.48 - 17093.92 many of their hours to make this happen 17094.2 - 17096.84 today in addition to being here non-stop 17097.48 - 17100.16 for the last three days thank you ABA 17101.04 - 17105.76 thank you Adrien Alex Alex Carlos David 17106.88 - 17111.44 Deval 17108.52 - 17110.48 Angelia Philip and 17111.44 - 17114.52 Flavia thank you FIS thank you Ina Jenis 17115.76 - 17122.8 Jose 17117.44 - 17122.64 me Juan Justina laa Leslie thank you 17122.8 - 17125.2 Leslie Magdalena of course Magdalena 17126.2 - 17130.16 thank you Mark thank you Matt milissa n 17131.16 - 17133.92 Nick Nicola Olga and Olga 17134.92 - 17139.52 T 17136.48 - 17138.84 Pedro thank you Pedro thank you Roberto 17139.52 - 17144.08 short Steve esana Tammy uros Valerio and 17145.8 - 17149.48 Jak not only special thanks yes go 17150.84 - 17155 ahead thank you Hugh lbr that he will he 17155.52 - 17157.68 he stayed with us in the first months of 17158.12 - 17162.52 organizing this event and once that h 17163.2 - 17166.36 roio joined again the team of course 17166.72 - 17169.24 Leslie please do the honor the 17170.44 - 17173.76 incomparable Rosio valiva who is our 17174.16 - 17176.08 WordPress Mentor guided us through 17176.56 - 17178.92 innumerable decisions over the past year 17183.2 - 17184.56 graas thank you so 17186 - 17188.08 much we also need to thank these 17188.32 - 17190.8 volunteers who joined us most of them at 17190.92 - 17193.64 the very last minute to help ensure that 17193.88 - 17196.2 we would have all of the moderation done 17196.64 - 17198.24 we would have enough panelists we would 17198.44 - 17200.24 have everything all set behind the 17200.36 - 17201.68 scenes and these folks really were 17202.4 - 17203.76 behind the scenes so thank you 17204.04 - 17206 Christopher Estella FEI 17207.36 - 17212.12 loesh 17208.92 - 17209.92 MAA n 17212.12 - 17215.68 Prince Sabrina Sam Stefano and juette 17216.68 - 17219.16 thank you very much thank you so much 17223.12 - 17228.64 whoops 17224.72 - 17226.72 okay and um well 17228.64 - 17234 volunteers H we there so again again and 17235 - 17236.56 being part of this team is something 17236.92 - 17239.12 amazing something you can do not only 17239.36 - 17241.96 for your personal growth but for the for 17242.16 - 17245 the professional part of your life so we 17245.4 - 17247.52 suggest you we are suggesting you to 17247.92 - 17250.2 join us because we need people a lot of 17250.44 - 17253.36 people to do it in order to do this in a 17253.52 - 17256.32 very easy way way so please go to that 17256.6 - 17261.16 URL to that link and fill in the form we 17261.32 - 17263.16 have a saying in the United States I 17263.28 - 17265.28 suspect we have it in in many many 17265.6 - 17267.48 countries because it's just this this 17267.68 - 17269 thing that makes sense everywhere that 17269.2 - 17272.64 many hands make light work so organizing 17273.28 - 17275.36 a word Camp especially the the size of 17275.52 - 17277.16 word Camp Europe is a very heavy task 17277.64 - 17279.04 but the more of us who do it the lighter 17279.4 - 17281.6 it is and I can tell you it is truly a 17281.8 - 17283.32 joy so please come join us 17284.56 - 17287.04 but also please do give us some feedback 17287.64 - 17290.2 let us know how word Camp Europe was for 17290.48 - 17292.84 you this year as moncho said we hope 17293.24 - 17295.36 that next year won't be online but none 17295.56 - 17297.24 of us really know right it's possible 17298.24 - 17299.88 that next year is also online and we 17300.08 - 17302 would love to know what your experience 17302.44 - 17303.72 was like this year so that we can 17303.92 - 17306.96 improve next year please do as as we 17307.16 - 17309.48 just said please do be kind we are all 17309.76 - 17311.76 volunteers and we've all given our time 17311.96 - 17314.36 to this so if you have criticism please 17314.64 - 17316.8 make it constructive but we will take it 17316.96 - 17324 to 17318.24 - 17322.52 heart yes please yes please perfect and 17324 - 17325.28 uh and of 17326.36 - 17329.8 course we love all of you thank you so 17330.08 - 17332 much for being here for joining this 17332.56 - 17336.2 event I we miss you to I to be with you 17336.76 - 17338.92 in presential events but thank you so 17339.12 - 17340.64 much for joining us in this virtual 17341.08 - 17344.24 event because it took a lot of work for 17344.92 - 17347.72 but we did it we did it with our with 17347.84 - 17350.04 our heart in order to have the best 17350.44 - 17351.12 experience for you 17352.4 - 17354.84 so thank you so much thank you so much 17355.04 - 17357.36 for 17357.64 - 17361.08 everything and we hope to see you in 17361.32 - 17364.92 Porto in 2022 we have already reserved 17365.68 - 17368.04 the conference center in Porto because 17368.64 - 17370.6 we believe believe believe that we will 17370.88 - 17373 be there and actually see you there and 17373.12 - 17376.08 we can fist bumper elbow bumper or hug 17376.36 - 17378.32 or whatever you'd like but we really 17378.6 - 17380.24 hope we'll see you there we have a 17380.36 - 17381.56 little presentation for you about 17384.92 - 17387.68 Porto there's a city on the west coast 17388.08 - 17391.8 of Portugal on the doru river one of the 17392 - 17395.48 most eclectic destinations in Europe it 17395.64 - 17396.76 is known for its medieval 17398.48 - 17399.48 architecture defining 17402.24 - 17403.92 Bridges long naed 17406.96 - 17409.24 beaches infectious charm and 17409.56 - 17415.48 contaminating 17411.96 - 17415.12 energy yes you can travel to many parts 17415.48 - 17418.56 of the world but Porto is the place to 17418.8 - 17421.12 which you finally return to to recharge 17422.04 - 17427.16 and 17422.8 - 17426.76 refresh climb the 222 steps to the top 17427.16 - 17427.44 of the clarico 17428.76 - 17432.32 tower taste its amazing food walk all 17432.6 - 17434.44 around the city through parks and small 17434.88 - 17437.76 streets always feeling that you are part 17438 - 17443.4 of 17439.04 - 17442.52 it this is our city this is your 17443.4 - 17444.84 city this is 17448.92 - 17452.36 Porto thank you all we love you and we 17452.52 - 17455.12 can't wait to see you yes and don't 17455.32 - 17457.52 forget go write our blog post share 17457.88 - 17459.96 about WordPress use the hashtag to tell 17460.2 - 17462.36 about your experience atam keep the 17462.52 - 17464.8 conversation going remember that we will 17465.12 - 17466.56 have available the content of the event 17467.16 - 17468.64 in a few days in our YouTube channel 17469.56 - 17471.96 goodbye see you in PTO see you next 17492.76 - 17495.76 year <!-- deep-read:sections end --> ## Highlights - what people choose to contribute to but that's the beauty of it is you know sometimes that that might annoy me but more often you know I see some incredible new feature of functionality that comes out of something that I would have never picked or guessed in a hundred years and that's just this idea that all of us are smarter than any one of us is is so true and that's why to me like you know leading WordPress isn't doesn't mean I have all the answers it means that I I want to commit us to a process which emerges the best answers and the best wisdom and intelligence from everywhere in the network of contributors that it that it exists if you had to just like place people and say Hello uh let's call some out you know God Daddy and Google and blue host and yast and uh awesome motive these companies that are anywhere from say a 100 employees to 10,000 employees where where would you ask them to commit resources for the betterment of the project as a whole um full-time people working on core I think would be number one like that is our biggest leverage Point um I think all of those companies also have if I were to expand a little bit you know many those companies have incredible marketing expertise incredible messaging expertise for WordPress as a whole for for WordPress yeah well just that expertise you know oh I see gosh let's use GoDaddy as an example they've been marketing for 20 years doing Super Bowl commercials things like that like not just uh Engineers or or people like that what if like someone in the marketing department there um helped us figure out how we need to redefine what WordPress is in other countries you know one the our big challenges I would say is like um people have ideas of Wordpress from 5 10 or or 18 years ago yeah I got some at it recently and so like how do we ask people to like say Hey you have these preconceived notions but please don't let WordPress be defined by a bad Wix ad or something like that like here here's how we tell our own story about what's powerful and what's unique about WordPress is actually nothing else in the market offers and um I think that that could be really helpful so just contributions that 5% again is to we we don't Define what that looks like it's not dollars and Work Camp sponsorships it's not like number of people um there can be proxies like an automatic my goal is to have we're 1500 people that means about 75 five need to be contributing to core and uh working on something in wordpress.org for uh for us to meet our five for the future commitment um so that that is lots of things and um so think about those those alternative areas Anyone Who Says by the way that they feel like automatic has too much influence well you can have influence too just put some in core there's a there's no blockers to anyone being part of it and I think we're we're seeing a good bit of that even if it doesn't mean they're coming into cour but there are companies that see the size the absolute impact of Wordpress on the broader web and they're getting involved one of the ways we're seeing that come together though is almost like bifurcated uh use cases of Wordpress or or presentations of Wordpress so that the onboarding experience at wordpress.com is different than if you download WordPress and install it on a empty box on digital ocean it's different than if if you were to start your WordPress experience at GoDaddy or if you were to start your WordPress experience through buying a theme uh on a Marketplace like inato these are all different experiences and these different companies that have incentives are creating kind of their own onboarding experiences and versions of Wordpress what do you think is good about that and then what do you think is potentially bad about that I think that's beautiful to be honest like that's kind of the the best thing about open source is people can take it and make it their own and that's kind of built into the freedoms that open source builds um and WordPress has both code and a strong culture of um that all being GPL so yeah I think where it could be negative is actually you know when you talk about bifurcation I I don't really worry about the the WordPress experience as much I wor more about the the bifurcation of community and contrib bution can you expand on that sure like from people see a gap in WordPress and their first thought is not you know how do I make wordpress.org better or how do I make core better but more like how do I leverage this Gap to get more people on my YouTube channel or to my proprietary thing or something like that um so that mindset um you know can be parasitic and if there's enough parasites it will kill the host it will kill WordPress there with the host because suffers you know what software does a GoDaddy or blue host or others have to to compete with with the proprietary Alternatives um and that's it I think one of the big answers that individual ecosystems are doing to answer that is they're kind of bundling Solutions so they're like all right you're not choosing between 10 form plugins here's one that we ship with our manage WordPress hosting and other choices that they may make opinions that honestly make the onboarding experience better but they do kind of eliminate some of that like incredible Discovery burden that you can come upon when you're like trying to solve a problem then you look for the answer um you if you go the traditional route the old school route of you have a bare WordPress install and you start hunting and you install and then you see a notification it's like well if you want more then pay extra or do something different do you think the plugin ecosystem like that the freemi kind of uh go for free find self-discovery methods and then pay externally for these potential upgrades that they may offer do you think it's been the best way to go about monetizing WordPress for the Professionals in the space or do you think a more centralized and seamless experience of like turning something on within the app and billing is all through some kind of centric WordPress space would that have potentially been a better way to go in the long run I mean one thing you can say with certainty is that the the lack of a centralized commercial billing Marketplace on wordpress.org or something like that hasn't held back the WordPress ecosystem you know there it's amazing how many businesses that are now tens of millions of dollars per year are are built on top of um just the the fundamental freedoms that open source and WordPress as a structure gives you that you can install plugins that aren't from the the repository and things like that but we also want to encourage as much as possible to go through that comment and I think what happens very naturally um is that when there's a strong enough demand for something open source communities coals around the solution which is um gives the most openness and control and also solves the most user problems and it's totally fine if that has a premium upgrade or something I think that just the whoever is doing that or the commercial entity has to balance like are they actually G Community contributions like guess it's something that really reflects the intelligence and will of the community for how that product operates and is the monetization complimentary you know in some ways what what we do it automatic what others do is I think of it's a little bit like Robin Hood we're not robbing from the rich we're just like we're charging a percentage of people very small percentage typically under 1% that um Can need something Niche that's commercially valuable or something like that and using that to support a free tool for the 99% the others in the world that either can't afford that or don't need it and you see very naturally that things that start off as maybe like a Ultra Premium upgrade you know you get something that used to cost you thousands of dollars a developer time to build then becomes a $100 a year plugin then it becomes a $30 a year plugin and then it's maybe built into something free because again the state- ofth art the thing that that's really hard to do has moved on an ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01j1fnpc6vgwzd6zt6jsfd1403))