WordCamp Europe 2026 - Fireside Chat & Q&A

WordCamp Europe 2026 - Fireside Chat & Q&A ![rw-book-cover](https://img.youtube.com/vi/X4GG-sfH94M/maxresdefault.jpg) 🔗 **Source:** [WordCamp Europe 2026 - Fireside Chat & Q&A](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4GG-sfH94M) > [!note]+ Document Notes > tags: [wordpress-ai, open-source, block-editor, gutenberg, developer-tools, multilingual-support] > author: [MISSING] > source: WordCamp Europe 2026 > reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4GG-sfH94M > date created: {{date:YYYY-MM-DD}} {{time:HH:mm}} > > # 🏷️ Title: WordCamp Europe 2026 - Fireside Chat & Q&A >  ## 🧭 Table of Contents - [📝 Summary](#-summary) - [📖 Main Content](#-main-content) - [🗒️ Notes](#️-notes) - [📚 References](#-references) - [🗣️ Paraphrase](#️-paraphrase) - [📰 Newsletter](#-newsletter) - [✅ Action Items](#-action-items) - [🧪 Hypotheses](#-hypotheses) - [📊 Methodology](#-methodology) - [❓ Questions](#-questions) - [🔮 Future Research](#-future-research) - [💡 Implications](#-implications) - [🧠 Learning Styles Assessment](#-learning-styles-assessment) - [📊 Accessibility Assessment](#-accessibility-assessment) - [🌍 DEIB Assessment](#-deib-assessment) - [✅ Logical Validity](#-logical-validity) - [🛡️ DARVO Analysis](#-darvo-analysis) - [🎯 Conclusion](#-conclusion) ## 📝 Summary - **What happened**: WordCamp Europe 2026 featured a fireside chat with Rich Tabor and Matias Ventura discussing WordPress 7.0, AI integration, and the future of WordPress development. - **Why it matters**: WordPress is undergoing fundamental transformation through AI integration while maintaining commitment to open source principles and human-centered design. - **Key stakeholders**: WordPress core contributors, developers, agencies, university partners, and the broader WordPress community. - **Risks and tradeoffs**: Balancing AI automation with human control, maintaining open source values amid corporate AI consolidation, and managing community diversity and engagement. - **Bottom line**: WordPress is actively embracing AI while strengthening its open source foundation and expanding educational initiatives to reach younger developers. ## 📖 Main Content The session began with recognition of Krakow University of Technology as WordPress's first university partner for educational initiatives, highlighting the growing importance of WordPress in academic settings. ### WordPress 7.0 Features and Philosophy Rich Tabor, as release lead for WordPress 7.0, emphasized smaller, quality-of-life improvements alongside major AI infrastructure. Notable features include: - **HTML block preview**: The HTML block now renders visual previews by default instead of showing raw code - **Visual revisions**: Users can now see visual changes over time by dragging through revision history - **Gallery lightbox**: Long-awaited feature finally implemented - **AI connectors and abilities API**: Foundation for AI integration throughout WordPress Matias Ventura stressed the human-centered approach, noting that while AI tools are revolutionary, WordPress must remain usable for humans when AI systems fail or become unavailable. ### AI Development Workflow Transformation Both speakers revealed they no longer code by hand, instead using AI tools like Claude and Codex to: - Generate code through voice commands - Create multiple implementation options for review - Break complex features into manageable pull requests - Fix bugs across WordPress.org infrastructure Rich demonstrated live improvements to the Gutenberg editor created through AI assistance, including enhanced block locking mechanisms and improved navigation within the editor interface. ### Experimental WordPress Interfaces Matias showcased radical experimental interfaces built through AI assistance: - **Desktop mode**: A retro OS-style interface where WordPress admin sections open as draggable windows - **Open canvas experience**: An infinite workspace where content objects can be manipulated like design elements - **Annotation tools**: Visual commenting systems for collaborative site feedback These experiments, requiring only weeks of development time with AI assistance, explore fundamental questions about CMS interfaces in an AI-driven world. ### Open Source and AI Concerns The discussion addressed growing concerns about AI enabling easy cloning of open source projects. The speakers argued for strengthening rather than restricting open source principles: - Open source remains WordPress's competitive advantage - AI makes open source even more valuable for learning and adaptation - Society needs open AI systems, not concentration in three companies - WordPress community should advocate loudly for open source AI ### Educational Initiatives and Community Diversity Mary Hubbard discussed WordPress's expanding educational programs: - University partnerships growing beyond initial Krakow pilot - AI literacy microcredentials using WordPress as the playground - Focus on reaching younger developers through education - Campus Connect programs spawning student clubs and meetups ### Future Development Priorities Key areas of focus include: - **Multilingual support**: Still planned as "phase four" with improved data structures - **Real-time collaboration**: Building foundations for live editing - **AI-powered generation**: Moving from HTML generation to proper WordPress blocks - **Deployment and staging**: Improved tools for moving content between environments ## 🗒️ Notes #### ⏱️ [00:00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4GG-sfH94M?t=0) University Partnership Recognition - Krakow University of Technology celebrated as first WordPress university partner - University will offer mandatory WordPress course starting October - 20 students showcased work at the event - University has hosted local WordCamps and meetups for years #### ⏱️ [00:05:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4GG-sfH94M?t=330) WordPress 7.0 Discussion - Rich Tabor led the 7.0 release - Focus on human experience amid AI transformation - HTML block now previews by default instead of showing code - Visual revisions allow dragging through time to see page changes #### ⏱️ [00:12:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4GG-sfH94M?t=735) AI Development Philosophy - Balancing AI automation with human control - Building for both agents and humans simultaneously - Ensuring fallback when AI systems become unavailable - WordPress as foundation regardless of interface evolution #### ⏱️ [00:18:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4GG-sfH94M?t=1125) Coding Workflow Changes - Most speakers no longer code by hand - Voice-to-code workflow becoming standard - AI handles complex bug fixes across WordPress.org - WP-CLI becoming useful for AI agent interactions #### ⏱️ [00:25:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4GG-sfH94M?t=1500) Live Demo - Editor Improvements - In-place editing of headers and template parts - Improved block locking mechanisms with visual controls - Enhanced menu system using existing data views component - Zoom out mode improvements for better UX #### ⏱️ [00:35:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4GG-sfH94M?t=2120) Experimental Interfaces Demo - Desktop OS-style WordPress admin interface - Open canvas with infinite workspace for content manipulation - Visual annotation tools for collaborative feedback - All built in weeks using AI assistance #### ⏱️ [00:42:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4GG-sfH94M?t=2530) Q&A - Community Diversity - Italian organizer concerned about aging contributor base - Focus on education as pathway to younger developers - AI microcredentials pilot with University of Chicago - Need to make WordPress "cool" again through AI initiatives #### ⏱️ [00:48:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4GG-sfH94M?t=2910) Documentation and Make Teams - AI will reshape but not replace make teams - Documentation may drive development instead of trailing it - Human oversight remains crucial for quality control - Potential for automation in documentation processes #### ⏱️ [00:52:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4GG-sfH94M?t=3165) Multilingual Support Status - Still targeting as "phase four" feature - Need proper data structures before implementation - Focus on content/presentation decoupling - Real-time collaboration work informing multilingual architecture #### ⏱️ [00:58:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4GG-sfH94M?t=3480) Open Source and AI Risks - Concerns about AI enabling easy project cloning - Commitment to remaining fully open source - Open source as competitive advantage, not vulnerability - Society needs open AI systems, not corporate concentration #### ⏱️ [01:02:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4GG-sfH94M?t=3735) Staging to Production Challenges - Manual deployment processes remain painful for freelancers - Ongoing work on sync mechanisms and diffing tools - Playground project exploring site movement capabilities - HTML API enabling granular content comparison ## 📚 References - [WordPress 7.0 Release](https://wordpress.org) - [Krakow University of Technology](https://pk.edu.pl) - [WordPress Campus Connect](https://learn.wordpress.org/campus-connect/) - [Gutenberg Editor](https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg) ## 🗣️ Paraphrase WordPress is experiencing a fundamental transformation through AI integration while maintaining its commitment to open source principles. The 7.0 release demonstrates this balance with practical improvements like visual revision history and HTML block previews alongside foundational AI infrastructure through the abilities API and connectors. The development workflow has shifted dramatically, with core contributors now using AI tools for everything from voice-to-code generation to complex bug fixes across WordPress.org. This has enabled rapid experimentation with radical new interfaces, from desktop OS-style admin panels to infinite canvas workspaces, all built in weeks rather than months. Educational initiatives are expanding globally, with universities like Krakow University of Technology pioneering WordPress curriculum integration. The focus on reaching younger developers through AI literacy programs represents a strategic response to concerns about an aging contributor base. The community faces important decisions about open source principles as AI makes project cloning easier. Rather than retreating from openness, WordPress leaders advocate for strengthening open source values and positioning them as essential for healthy AI development across society. ## 📰 Newsletter 🚀 **WordPress Embraces AI While Staying Human-Centered** WordCamp Europe 2026 showcased how WordPress is threading the needle between AI innovation and human-centered design. While core contributors now build with voice-to-AI workflows instead of hand-coding, they're ensuring WordPress remains usable when those AI systems inevitably fail. WordPress 7.0 ships with visual revision history (finally!), HTML block previews, and the foundation for AI integration through the new abilities API. But the real excitement comes from experimental interfaces built in weeks using AI assistance—imagine WordPress admin as a retro desktop OS or an infinite design canvas. 🎓 **Education Gets AI Boost**: The WordPress Campus Connect program is expanding with AI literacy microcredentials, using WordPress as the playground for learning ethical AI development. Krakow University's mandatory WordPress course launches this October. 🔓 **Open Source Defense**: As AI makes cloning projects easier, WordPress leaders argue for strengthening rather than restricting openness. Their message: society needs open AI systems, not concentration in three corporate hands. For WordPress developers and agencies, the message is clear—start experimenting with AI tools now, but build systems that degrade gracefully when those tools become unavailable. ## ✅ Action Items #### DevRel - **AI literacy content**: Create tutorials showing WordPress development with AI tools like Claude and Codex - **Community showcases**: Document and share experimental WordPress interfaces being built with AI assistance - **Educational partnerships**: Expand university partnerships beyond current pilot programs - **Developer advocacy**: Promote WordPress as ideal platform for AI experimentation and learning #### WordPress Core - **Multilingual roadmap**: Accelerate phase four planning with improved data structures and real-time collaboration foundations - **AI abilities expansion**: Build more comprehensive AI connector ecosystem for plugin developers - **Editor UX improvements**: Implement Rich's demonstrated enhancements to block locking and in-place editing - **Staging/production tools**: Advance sync mechanisms and diffing tools for easier deployment workflows #### Community - **Youth engagement**: Develop programs specifically targeting younger developers through AI and modern web development approaches - **Educational content**: Create AI-powered WordPress curriculum materials for universities and bootcamps - **Open source advocacy**: Launch campaigns highlighting importance of open source AI using WordPress as success story - **Diversity initiatives**: Address aging contributor base through targeted outreach and mentorship programs #### WPCC - **AI microcredentials**: Scale University of Chicago pilot program to additional institutions globally - **Student showcases**: Create regular opportunities for student work presentation at major WordPress events - **Curriculum development**: Standardize WordPress course materials for university adoption - **Mentorship matching**: Connect student contributors with experienced community members ## 🧪 Hypotheses 1. **AI-assisted development will become standard practice for WordPress core contributors within 12 months**, evidenced by current adoption rates among speakers 2. **Visual interfaces will increasingly replace text-based WordPress administration**, based on experimental desktop and canvas modes shown 3. **Educational partnerships will significantly increase WordPress's appeal to younger developers**, supported by initial success at Krakow University 4. **Open source principles will strengthen rather than weaken in response to AI cloning concerns**, given community commitment expressed by leaders 5. **WordPress will become a primary platform for AI experimentation and learning**, due to its openness and extensibility ### 📊 Methodology - **Survey WordPress contributors** on AI tool adoption rates and workflow changes over 6-month intervals - **Track educational program metrics**: student engagement, contribution rates, and post-graduation community involvement - **Monitor experimental interface adoption** through plugin downloads and community feedback - **Analyze competitor responses** to WordPress's open source AI stance - **Measure developer demographics** in WordPress community over time ### ❓ Questions - How will WordPress maintain quality control as AI-generated code becomes prevalent? - What happens to WordPress agencies when clients can generate sites directly through AI? - How will the plugin ecosystem evolve to support AI-driven development workflows? - What safeguards prevent AI systems from introducing security vulnerabilities? - How will WordPress compete with AI-native platforms built from scratch? ### 🔮 Future Research - Impact of AI tools on WordPress development velocity and bug rates - Effectiveness of educational programs in diversifying contributor base - User experience implications of AI-generated vs. human-designed interfaces - Economic effects of AI automation on WordPress professional services - Technical architecture requirements for AI-native content management systems ### 💡 Implications - **Practice**: WordPress developers must rapidly adopt AI tools or risk obsolescence - **Policy**: Open source licensing may need updating to address AI training and generation concerns - **Security**: New frameworks needed for validating AI-generated code contributions - **Education**: Universities should integrate WordPress into computer science curricula as AI learning platform - **Funding**: Community funding models may need adjustment as AI reduces development costs while increasing experimentation needs ## 🧠 Learning Styles Assessment Reading level estimate: Grade 12-14 (Flesch-Kincaid formula) - appropriate for technical audience #### 👀 Visual learners - **Present**: Live demos of experimental interfaces, before/after comparisons of editor improvements - **Improve**: Architecture diagrams of AI integration, visual roadmaps for multilingual support, screenshots of educational program outcomes #### 🔊 Aural learners - **Present**: Video format with speakers explaining concepts directly - **Improve**: Audio-only version, podcast-style summary, speaker notes for key concepts #### 🗣️ Verbal learners - **Present**: Clear definitions of AI abilities API, detailed explanations of open source principles - **Improve**: Glossary of technical terms, analogies for complex concepts, plain-language summaries #### 🧩 Kinesthetic learners - **Present**: Live coding demonstrations, hands-on AI tool usage examples - **Improve**: Step-by-step tutorials, reproducible experiments, downloadable demo environments #### 🧠 Logical learners - **Present**: Clear cause-effect relationships between AI adoption and workflow changes - **Improve**: Decision trees for AI tool selection, KPI dashboards for educational programs, structured comparison matrices #### 🧑‍🤝‍🧑 Social learners - **Present**: Q&A session with community interaction, collaborative development examples - **Improve**: Discussion prompts for local meetups, group project suggestions, mentorship program guidelines #### 🧘‍♀️ Solitary learners - **Present**: Individual experimentation opportunities, personal reflection on workflow changes - **Improve**: Self-assessment questionnaires, private study materials, independent project ideas #### 🌿 Naturalistic learners - **Present**: Evolution metaphors for WordPress development, ecosystem thinking about open source - **Improve**: Sustainability implications of AI development, community health analogies, environmental impact considerations ## 📊 Accessibility Assessment #### Screen reader semantics - **Present**: Video has speakers clearly identified, technical terms spelled out - **Improve**: Full transcript with speaker identification, ARIA labels for interface demos, alt text for visual demonstrations #### Keyboard navigation - **Present**: Standard video player controls accessible via keyboard - **Improve**: Transcript with skip links to sections, keyboard-accessible demo environments #### Contrast and readability - **Present**: High contrast in demo interfaces shown - **Improve**: Transcript styling with sufficient contrast, large text options for technical diagrams #### Text resizing and reflow - **Present**: Responsive video player, scalable text in transcript - **Improve**: Transcript that reflows properly at 200% zoom, responsive demo interfaces #### Media and captions - **Present**: Full transcript available - **Improve**: Closed captions with technical term spelling, audio descriptions for visual demos, downloadable transcript #### Forms and interactions - **Present**: Simple Q&A interaction format - **Improve**: Accessible feedback forms for session topics, labeled input fields for demo requests #### Standards reference - Meets WCAG 2.2 AA for transcript provision - Could improve with enhanced media accessibility and interaction design ## 🌍 DEIB Assessment #### Cultural breadth - **Present**: Polish university partnership highlighted, European event context, speakers from different backgrounds - **Improve**: More global university examples, translation resources for educational materials, multi-region case studies #### Inclusive language - **Present**: Technical jargon generally defined in context - **Improve**: Glossary for non-native speakers, gender-neutral pronouns throughout, cultural context for WordPress adoption #### Neurodiversity support - **Present**: Multiple presentation formats (demo, discussion, Q&A), clear section breaks - **Improve**: Content warnings for rapid interface changes, consistent structure markers, predictable navigation patterns #### Representation - **Present**: Mix of technical and community leadership perspectives - **Improve**: More diverse speaker representation, varied use cases beyond Western contexts, accessibility advocate perspectives #### Psychological safety - **Present**: Respectful Q&A moderation, acknowledgment of concerns about AI - **Improve**: Community guidelines reference, escalation paths for inappropriate questions, content warnings for major technology shifts ## ✅ Logical Validity #### Strong reasoning - **Deductive strength** (27:30): "If code becomes more of a disposable artifact, documentation might determine code instead of trailing behind it" - logical progression from AI-generated code premise - **Inductive evidence** (18:45): Multiple examples of core contributors adopting AI workflows suggests broader trend - **Causal reasoning** (58:00): Open source principles → innovation and community growth → competitive advantage (well-supported by WordPress history) #### Fallacies - **Appeal to novelty** (35:20): Assumption that experimental interfaces are inherently better than current ones needs more evidence - **False dichotomy** (42:10): Framing contributor diversity as purely education vs. other approaches oversimplifies the challenge - **Survivorship bias** (52:45): Focus on successful university partnerships without discussing failed attempts #### Tone of voice - **Collaborative and exploratory**: "These are open questions" (12:15), "I don't know" admissions show intellectual humility - **Cautiously optimistic**: Balanced discussion of AI benefits and risks - **Community-focused**: Consistent return to human impact and community health ## 🛡️ DARVO Analysis No DARVO patterns detected in this content. The discussion maintains focus on technical and community topics without defensive rhetoric, victim-blaming, or role reversal tactics. Speakers acknowledge challenges and uncertainties openly rather than deflecting criticism. ## 🎯 Conclusion WordPress is navigating a pivotal transformation by embracing AI tools while strengthening its human-centered design philosophy and open source principles. The 7.0 release demonstrates this balance through practical improvements and foundational AI infrastructure, while experimental interfaces showcase radical possibilities achievable through AI-assisted development. The community's strategy of expanding educational partnerships and focusing on younger developers addresses legitimate concerns about contributor diversity and long-term sustainability. By positioning WordPress as a platform for AI literacy and experimentation, leaders are making the project relevant to emerging technologies while maintaining its democratic, open source values. For WordPress professionals, the message is clear: adapt to AI-assisted workflows while building systems that remain human-usable. The future belongs to those who can leverage AI capabilities while preserving the accessibility, openness, and community focus that made WordPress successful. --- ## Full Transcript [00:19] Uh for before we get started with the [00:21] fireside chat, I do want to invite two [00:23] people on stage. Uh we're going to bring [00:26] Natalyia and Daniel. They're from uh [00:29] Krakov University of Technology and [00:32] they're actually the very first [00:34] university that WordPress partnered with [00:37] um for the educational initiatives. So [00:40] they hold a very special place in our [00:42] hearts for WP credits and how we've [00:45] expanded into this region in Poland. Uh [00:48] so before this uh formal collaboration [00:50] started they were before that genuinely [00:54] word wonderful supporters to the [00:55] WordPress community for years and the [00:58] university hosts all of the local word [01:01] camps every year and is a regular home [01:03] to WordPress meetups. So let's give both [01:06] of these wonderful people a big round of [01:07] applause. [01:17] Thank you. [01:19] I would like at start [01:23] thanking [01:24] the organizers of a world camp Europe [01:29] uh to to the organizing [01:33] event. [01:35] And next I would like to say thank you [01:39] to the whole award press community and [01:44] personally to Matt and Mary [01:47] Mary. [01:51] The first I believe that we share at [01:54] least two important values and ideas. We [01:59] it means a word camp community and karak [02:05] of university of technology and others [02:08] university and schools. The first one is [02:12] that we love learning and sharing [02:16] knowledge. [02:17] The second one is that we are open to [02:21] new ideas, new skills and new [02:25] connections. [02:27] So with great pleasure we would like to [02:30] give to Mary [02:33] a small gift from our Krakov University [02:36] of technology from our faculty of uh [02:40] informatics and mathematics [02:43] with the hope that this is the beginning [02:46] of for the cooperation and good luck to [02:49] the entire WordPress community and thank [02:51] you once again and it is our small G [02:56] gift from our to you Marie and to our to [03:03] the whole World Camp community. Thank [03:06] you. [03:15] >> Thank you. [03:17] >> Thank you. Thank you. [03:19] >> Thank you so much. [03:20] >> Thank you. Thank you. [03:21] >> And it's a it's a great opportunity. I [03:24] think of within the last within the last [03:26] year um it's been really important our [03:29] WordPress in education has been really [03:30] important to me and I know uh the [03:32] community but this is a a real [03:34] trailblazing event for Poland and for [03:37] WordPress um starting in October their [03:40] university will open up uh a WordPress [03:42] specific course where WordPress will be [03:44] mandatory um and that is the University [03:47] of Technology Crackout um so it's a huge [03:51] huge win for WordPress thank [03:57] And even uh even today actually right [03:59] before this we had the first first [04:01] cohort where students were able to [04:03] showcase what they have done within [04:04] WordPress. Uh Matchuk has been [04:06] spearheading that and I think that we [04:08] had around 20 students here um from the [04:11] event u preparing and showing what [04:13] they've done just within this program. [04:14] So it's really exciting to see the [04:16] program grow to such a level um and [04:18] what's coming next. I think that uh [04:20] within WordPress credits and WordPress [04:22] Campus Connect, thank you for everyone [04:24] who's done um all of the work here, but [04:26] it's I love to see uh education taking [04:29] off the way that it is. Um and with [04:32] that, u I'm going to accept this award [04:34] on behalf of Matt and I thank you for [04:36] for mine as well. That was a pleasant [04:38] surprise. Um and I wanted to kind of [04:41] pivot over. Um, obviously Matt's unable [04:44] to be here with us today and so I've [04:47] asked Matias and Rich to come up and [04:50] talk a little bit about what we are [04:51] doing with WordPress, the future of [04:53] WordPress and AI. So if you could please [04:55] welcome Rich Dor, Matias Mata, [05:03] you want to just sit down [05:06] like the uh [05:07] >> I take the middle. [05:08] >> You could take the middle. Why not? I'll [05:10] pivot over. All right. [05:14] >> Hello everyone. [05:16] >> We're sorry you couldn't have Matt. Hope [05:18] we can fill in the shoes. [05:21] >> I think we Yeah, I think we can I think [05:22] we can have an open conversation of what [05:24] we've been doing and then take questions [05:25] from the audience would probably be the [05:27] best way. Um but you know starting out [05:31] obviously 7.0 just launched and you were [05:33] the release lead. what uh what are some [05:35] of the things that that you have found [05:37] to be you know your some of your [05:39] favorite features or more broadly what [05:41] what do you excites you about 7.0? [05:44] >> Yeah, 70 was a it was a good one. I I [05:47] wonder actually if the if everyone that [05:50] contributed to WordPress 7.0 could stand [05:52] up briefly. [05:55] Nice. [06:06] Well, thank you to all for contributing [06:09] to it. And I think I think it's [06:11] important also to well in these kinds of [06:14] events we're sort of living through the [06:16] age of AI and I don't know like always [06:21] remembering the human aspect of it. I [06:23] don't know it feels like it grounds us a [06:25] bit. So [06:26] >> well you always circle it back right to [06:27] the human human experience what we're [06:29] And I know you lead a lot with like what [06:31] is best for the user. Had a great [06:33] conversation with the seller yesterday [06:34] about it as well. But maybe we could [06:35] talk a little bit about what's that for [06:37] you, Rich? What's the human the human [06:39] aspect of WordPress for you? [06:41] >> Yeah, I I think it's critical as we're [06:43] exploring what uh Agentic development [06:45] looks like. Um but we're also [06:47] approaching it from the human aspect, [06:49] right? Like we're we need to make sure [06:50] that as we're building, we're building [06:52] for agents but also for humans. Even as [06:54] the Ajentic tools continue to improve [06:57] and get faster and better, we're still [06:59] going to need those experience that [07:00] better support us as humans when we're [07:03] editing something. [07:04] >> How do you balance that? I mean, a lot [07:06] of the conversations we've been talking [07:08] about AI, it either sways way over to [07:10] how WordPress is going to work within AI [07:12] all the way back to how a user is going [07:14] to use AI to make WordPress. So, what's [07:16] your thoughts on the balance between the [07:18] two? [07:19] Yeah, I would say it comes down to um [07:21] how we build with AI, build WordPress [07:24] with AI and how we leverage AI in [07:27] WordPress. So when we're using WordPress [07:29] to build something and making sure that [07:31] we're not just circling around one of [07:33] those options, but really leaning into [07:35] both. So providing the abilities API and [07:38] really leaning into the tools that help [07:40] people who are producing sites as well [07:42] as the developers who are building [07:43] WordPress itself. [07:45] >> What about you? [07:46] >> Yeah. [07:48] Um, [07:50] and it's it's interesting to me because [07:53] we're living through a very interesting [07:55] time. So the I think we need to it's a [08:00] very reflective time as well. We need to [08:01] think like what does what is WordPress [08:04] in this world? What is the role of a [08:06] CMS? Like how do we serve users and [08:09] developers and the communities and so [08:11] on? And everything is changing so [08:13] rapidly. Um, and I I I don't know how [08:16] everyone feels, but it like one day it [08:18] might be completely overwhelming, [08:19] another day you might feel it's kind of [08:21] like the opening of uh Deacons at Tale [08:24] of Two Cities, like it was the best of [08:26] times, it was the worst of times. That's [08:28] kind of how it feels with AI sometimes. [08:30] It's one day it's oh, everything that [08:32] you can do is so amazing. You can move [08:34] at the at the speed of thought and then [08:36] another day it's like this is the most [08:38] frustrating technology I've touched. And [08:40] those two things sort of live together [08:43] uh almost daily on a daily basis. Um so [08:46] I don't know I think it's um [08:50] as we shape and we steer and usher [08:52] WordPress into this I think the like we [08:55] need to think what are the things that [08:57] remain the same what are the things that [08:59] are uh less important or more [09:02] superficial and as we get into the [09:04] product itself it's like is the [09:06] interface relevant would you need an [09:08] editor anymore like what is the the role [09:12] of the CMS and so on Um and all of that [09:15] I think is is happening pretty rapidly. [09:18] I think I think people are exploring [09:20] ideas um pushing WordPress in different [09:24] sites even now I don't know like we did [09:26] a fun experiment at automatic that we [09:28] call the radical speedmon where people [09:31] were just building whatever ideas came [09:34] to mind and some of those were being [09:35] shared publicly and I think um folks [09:38] have sort of related pretty well with [09:40] that because it steers the imagination a [09:42] bit um but at the same time it's like [09:45] there's a lot of um concrete read things [09:48] and I had a lot of great conversations [09:50] with folks years about the like what's [09:52] the role of developers and agencies and [09:55] so on is like can a user just create [09:58] their own site fully now with an agent [10:00] and buy code aside and and then what [10:03] happens when they get stuck or it [10:05] doesn't work uh and and we also need to [10:08] think about the um as we introduced like [10:10] you said we had the connectors in 70 the [10:14] WP AI API like abilities [10:18] And with all of those things, we also [10:20] need to think the because right now like [10:25] this interface, it can feel like oh the [10:27] interface is not necessary. We can just [10:30] um you can talk with an agent and and [10:32] modify the site. But then okay, what's [10:34] the like what happens if you lose access [10:36] to that? If if is that can that become a [10:39] barrier then if your if the only way [10:41] that you can edit a site is through um [10:44] an agent like if users become accustomed [10:47] to that and then that breaks what [10:49] happens they cannot uh interact with [10:51] that. So and we're not quite there I [10:54] think yet with uh open source models to [10:56] say uh so all of those things I think as [10:59] a project we need to balance them and [11:02] it's um yeah what do you think? Yeah, I [11:06] agree. I think um I mean a very tangible [11:08] example is when you're generating [11:10] artifacts in cloud and you're going to [11:12] push it somewhere else, there's a [11:13] built-in UI even to push it to Google so [11:15] that you can edit it a little further or [11:17] there are skills that we have to push [11:19] things to WordPress so you can edit it a [11:21] little further. Having it be a static [11:24] element there, static artifact is um [11:27] just the first piece of the generation. [11:28] It's not the the end all. And that's [11:30] where keeping something like the editor [11:33] of course is top of mind for those times [11:35] where you go in and need to edit or need [11:37] to do small tweaks that don't require an [11:39] LLM to process. [11:42] >> Well, and it's interesting too because I [11:43] speak a lot around open source and AI [11:46] and how important it is not only to [11:48] society but to WordPress and and what [11:50] what is your thinking here when it comes [11:52] to open source and AI and how WordPress [11:54] is going to play a role? [11:57] either of you. [12:00] >> I I think WordPress is is is already [12:03] playing a crucial role in there. I think [12:05] it can be the for many people it might [12:07] even be the way we to start playing with [12:10] u um with code in a more meaningful way. [12:14] We in the past we've talked about no [12:16] code as being a sort of on ramp to [12:18] becoming developers. I think many people [12:20] here sort of became developers like [12:23] playing with WordPress and so on. So I [12:25] think a AI opens like a completely new [12:28] door to interacting with these systems [12:30] and if these systems are open not just [12:34] through APIs and MCPS and so on but you [12:37] can actually modify the code and learn [12:39] from the code and so on um it's even a [12:42] way to learn about the system that you [12:44] are using. Um so the the interplay to me [12:47] there is is very intricate and and [12:49] interesting but [12:50] >> yeah even you know with the last years [12:53] of improvement uh for the models we've [12:55] seen it to be where you can go in in [12:57] Gutenberg for example and um last week I [13:00] was I was trying to fix something where [13:01] when you drag and drop something we have [13:04] like patterns at resize or images that [13:05] resize so you can better position them. [13:07] But as I'm playing around with that, you [13:09] know, I just had the thing come to mind [13:10] like I think it takes uh a little bit. [13:12] It's a little bit too too fast like [13:14] whenever you start dragging it before it [13:15] shrinks. So it can kind of create these [13:17] accidental moments for us humans as [13:19] we're moving things around. So I just [13:21] asked in codeex. I just said like I need [13:24] to add a little bit of a delay here or a [13:25] little bit of a a pixel delay or [13:27] something as we're moving these elements [13:29] around. And it went through and actually [13:31] found where that was and actually made [13:33] the change for me and pushed up a quick [13:34] VR. you know, two years ago that [13:37] required a lot of like actual knowledge [13:39] of the system and knew where like I had [13:41] to go way down into it in order to find [13:43] it and find the exact actual components [13:45] to make the changes. [13:46] >> Whereas today it's it's literally I hold [13:48] down the function button and I talk to [13:50] it and then it gives me those are for [13:52] tiny things but like a tiny fix for that [13:54] for that small interaction. [13:55] >> Yeah. Well, and I did I heard somewhere [13:58] here this this week that you had [14:00] recently built some sort of agent and [14:02] went went around WordPress.org fixing [14:03] bugs. Is that true? Well, there's many [14:05] many of these sorts of things. [14:08] >> What what were you fixing? What what [14:09] what are some of the stuff that you did? [14:10] >> Uh some of it is, you know, the the [14:12] things that have have a long tale of [14:14] sitting around that we might know we [14:16] want to do but haven't allocated [14:19] appropriately or haven't really um maybe [14:21] we don't know the right solution. So, [14:23] bringing those those things up, [14:24] surfacing them, and then having going [14:26] through the actual thought process of [14:27] what can happen and what are the options [14:29] and then sometimes I'll have it generate [14:31] different options for us and we [14:32] experiment with them. some like the [14:34] navigation on WordPress.org like going [14:36] through some of those changes that [14:38] historically the hardest part is just [14:40] getting the full picture of what that [14:41] needs to be and some of our systems are [14:43] a little complicated. You know over the [14:44] years 23 years of history these things [14:47] evolve but with the assistance of AI now [14:49] we can actually make changes much faster [14:51] to those complicated systems without the [14:53] risk of breaking them. [14:55] >> Yeah. I think also there's a lot of [14:57] primitives in WordPress that are sort of [14:59] coming to light now as being really [15:01] valuable and things that maybe were not [15:04] intended for AI and so on. Like it [15:06] reminds me I don't know in like we have [15:08] this studio code explaining and WPCLI is [15:11] becoming super useful like AI know [15:13] really well how to use it and it's a [15:15] fast way to interact with a WordPress [15:17] site and maybe before that was only [15:19] considered a developer tool but now it [15:21] can become sort of a mechanism to to [15:24] access WordPress and so on. Um it's it's [15:27] interesting also that you were saying [15:28] the agenda. I'm curious who who here no [15:32] longer codes by hand. [15:37] Okay. And who still like coding by hand [15:40] like an old scribe? Okay. [15:43] Nice. It's a It's I I don't know how you [15:47] feel. Are you What about you, Rich? Are [15:49] you [15:49] >> uh I'm not by hand at all. Yeah. I I [15:52] like to I mean I was telling you earlier [15:54] I like to essentially talk to the [15:56] machine. uh hold down the function key [15:58] and sometimes I'll go through one branch [16:00] of just a bunch of ideas to try to get [16:02] to the core feeling that I'm looking for [16:05] through the software and um and then [16:07] I'll have cloud break it down into [16:08] multiple PRs the stacks into the right [16:11] right parts to it and then I'll ping a [16:13] lot of contributors and say like can you [16:14] help me carry these across the finish [16:16] line and I found that to be uh pretty [16:18] helpful and I'm not looking at the code [16:20] really until the PR part of it and then [16:22] of course you know it's you know like [16:23] we've already done this before a certain [16:25] way let's let's revert or let's use the [16:26] other one or you know to use existing [16:28] patterns that already exist. I think [16:30] those type of prompts are really helped. [16:32] Um but yes, I'm not I I haven't typed in [16:34] code and maybe all year. [16:37] >> Yeah, I I think that's also part of the [16:40] why this transition is is in many ways [16:43] so intense because it's not just we need [16:45] to think about the software like our own [16:47] practice of how we build the software is [16:49] changing. So it's uh there's a lot of [16:53] redefining moments of of finding and and [16:56] then it's also true at the same time [16:57] that there's um like who's going to be [17:00] reading this code if no one is writing [17:02] it anymore by hand like what's are we [17:04] going to get to the point where it's not [17:06] no longer humanly possible to read [17:08] because of the volume of code that is [17:10] being produced and all of those things I [17:12] think we're like right in the middle of [17:15] figuring those things out and for a [17:17] project that also has a history of being [17:20] very um [17:22] adamant and conscientious about the [17:25] security, about the longevity, the [17:28] backwards compatibility, it also poses a [17:30] a challenge like how do we navigate all [17:32] of that together and so on. So I mean [17:34] these are not really answers or really [17:36] open questions, but yeah. [17:39] >> Yeah. Well, I don't think you actually [17:40] hit on on 7.0 your favorite feature. I [17:43] think you might have opened a little bit [17:45] to it, but what was your favorite [17:46] feature? My favorite uh it's real time [17:51] too soon. Too soon. Um the I I kind of [17:56] love some of the small tiny features. Um [17:58] for example, the the HTML block now [18:01] previews by default in the editor. Um [18:04] which is related to some of this stuff [18:05] because now as people sort of create [18:07] more HTML things and place them in [18:09] templates. Before it would render like [18:11] the code directly and it was kind of [18:13] gnarly. Now it just renders the preview [18:15] and you can edit in a in a model and so [18:17] on. It's a tiny thing. I'm not even sure [18:19] if we call it out in the like the main [18:22] um post, but I sort of like gravitate [18:24] towards those like the the gallery light [18:27] box. I also really like it. I know it's [18:29] a long time coming. It should have been [18:31] there. But what about you? [18:34] >> Um I also picked something that was a [18:36] little maybe less known is the um visual [18:40] revisions. So, um, someone else agrees. [18:44] They, uh, what's interesting, I mean, [18:46] WordPress had, you know, the code diff [18:48] type view where you can see the content [18:49] changes and, you know, the green and the [18:51] red if you're looking at revisions, but [18:53] with 7.0, you can actually see a visual [18:56] change. So, if you drag it from the [18:57] left, it's kind of like dragging back in [18:59] time and seeing your page back in time [19:01] as you've edited it. Um, which is also [19:03] interesting as we, you know, have our [19:05] agents starting to do some of this work [19:06] for us. To be able to actually see the [19:08] change and understand the change [19:09] ourselves instead of just looking [19:10] through the code, uh, I think is, um, is [19:13] obviously nice. [19:14] >> What are you most looking forward to [19:16] coming up? [19:18] >> Coming up, that's a good question. I [19:20] think the, um, you know, we have the [19:22] foundation of abilities and the [19:24] connectors in place. Now I think what's [19:26] interesting is probably how you know [19:29] those of us in the room here who are [19:30] building a lot on WordPress how we [19:32] better leverage those tools that are in [19:34] place the substrate for AI and WordPress [19:37] uh the different abilities the different [19:39] functions that we build in for our [19:41] clients for our customers for our [19:43] friends who are working on WordPress [19:44] sites themselves I think is really [19:46] interesting. Um we've seen a couple of [19:48] small examples but I think we're just [19:50] scratching the surface on on that front. [19:54] What about you? [19:56] >> What I'm looking forward to um I'm I'm [20:00] kind of excited about like the the wide [20:02] explorations that we're making now. Um [20:05] that we mentioned like there's this the [20:07] desktop mode I think that is in the [20:09] repository like it's it's not really [20:12] necessarily like painting the direction [20:14] of the project but it's more around the [20:16] okay how can we reimagine pieces uh in [20:19] sort of radical ways. Um [20:21] >> there's the browser extension work [20:23] that's being done in the community. [20:25] >> Yeah, there's there there's a lot of I [20:27] think like brewing energy in exploring [20:30] those things. Um so that's kind of [20:33] exciting I think. [20:34] >> Yeah. Yeah. On the on the building [20:36] WordPress front, it certainly opens up a [20:38] lot more ideas and opportunities. Um, [20:41] you know, over the last few months [20:43] especially, we've seen lots of different [20:44] prototypes and different like ways that [20:47] WordPress can be expressed, but the CMS [20:50] of WordPress stays the same. It's always [20:52] the the foundation behind all of these [20:54] experiments, which kind of like [20:56] validates the longevity of how WordPress [20:58] got to where it is today 23 years later. [21:00] >> Yeah, maybe we can show some of it like [21:03] that. I can It's not We haven't We [21:05] really didn't plan for this, so it might [21:08] go wrong in all sorts of ways. We'll see [21:15] if I find that. [21:19] Yeah, Matias has been going quite wide [21:21] on some of these ideas. It's been fun to [21:24] fun to jam on. [21:33] Okay, let me see. [21:48] It's showing up. Yeah. [21:51] So for those that the desktop mode is [21:54] this sort of takeover of the admin where [21:56] you get like a like a desktop version [22:00] like sort of retrolooking thing where [22:03] you can every sort of section opens as a [22:06] window that you can drag around and so [22:07] on [22:09] and you access your media library and so [22:11] on. You interact with these pieces. [22:14] It's like a WordPress OS [22:18] >> and I I was myself exploring on a sort [22:20] of this open canvas uh experience where [22:24] you can get [22:25] let me find if this works [22:29] so where all the objects are are laid [22:31] out in this infinitely open uh space and [22:35] you can have collections of postal [22:38] things and you can interact um [22:43] like These these are all ideas that are [22:46] I think before were kind of um blocked [22:51] from exploring because you would say [22:53] okay that that will take me a very long [22:55] time to explore and now they are like [22:57] just a few prompts away to see uh how [23:00] this might look and so if I show [23:05] so this for example is um [23:09] so this is a object that's a the preview [23:12] of the site And something that's pretty [23:15] fun is you can do [23:18] find this. It's like an annotate tool so [23:21] that you can comment and say I don't [23:23] know I want to make [23:29] a sticky header [23:32] and as you are making these annotations [23:34] they sort of float around and I don't [23:36] know maybe the title is too big [23:41] and then once you gather all these [23:43] things maybe you like submit to an agent [23:46] and you interact with that and so on And [23:49] I don't know these are sort of again [23:52] your media library is all there. So if [23:54] you [23:56] you can just drag things from a common [23:58] pallet and interact. So if you're [24:00] building a story I don't know about the [24:02] like I have these sculptures like you [24:05] can connect them to sticky notes. Again [24:07] it looks nothing like WordPress but it's [24:09] all WordPress behind the scenes. Um, and [24:12] those are I don't know like just fun [24:15] fun ways to think and pushes to think [24:18] like what would be the interaction [24:20] models uh of the future when you have [24:24] when WordPress like maybe the CMS [24:26] proceeds to the background like can we [24:27] think about the primitives of the CMS in [24:30] a in a different way in a way that opens [24:33] up um [24:35] I don't know more opportunities and so [24:37] on but the [24:46] That's great. Thank you. [24:48] >> And and you've just been jamming on that [24:50] in between, you know, between other [24:52] projects, other things, just like on the [24:54] fun for fun, right? [24:55] >> That that's just like also like a few [24:57] weeks of work. I think that's a sort of [24:59] impressive thing that says, "Oh, I can [25:01] like sort of anything is possible. So [25:03] you just need to um now I think like it [25:06] used to be that I think ideas were cheap [25:08] and execution was the difficult thing [25:11] and now it's coming to like well now the [25:13] ideas are the like maybe the most [25:16] important and it it can also be that oh [25:19] like do we have the best ideas like we [25:21] need to be thinking harder about the [25:24] where do we take the project and so on [25:26] but that that also I think reflects is [25:28] also not just the big ideas but also the [25:30] small things. I don't know if you want [25:32] to show some of the [25:33] >> Yeah. of your own your own explorations. [25:37] >> All right. [25:37] >> We're we're chaining live demos. So [25:41] >> yeah, [25:47] >> because I I think also [25:50] I don't know it at least to me it's also [25:52] a reflection around like what has made [25:54] WordPress like come along the way like [25:57] as far as it has. And so I mean there's [26:00] a million elements right because it's [26:02] very difficult to pinpoint that down but [26:05] there's I think there's like a few [26:06] strong components around the like the [26:09] user experience has to be like it has [26:12] always need to be grounded in is it easy [26:14] to use for normal people [26:16] >> and then is it a good tool for builders [26:19] and developers to extend on it and been [26:21] reliable things and those two things I [26:24] think like are sort of the engine behind [26:26] things and that means in a way we need [26:29] to keep pushing both relentlessly and [26:33] that means simplifying the experience as [26:36] much as possible and that's some of what [26:38] uh Rich is going to show as we also keep [26:41] it open and flexible and extensible and [26:43] we're bringing in all these dev API [26:46] tools um now of course sort of tailored [26:49] to AI agents and abilities and so on but [26:52] it's really to empower builders to do [26:54] anything with the software and users to [26:57] have joy while they use [27:00] Yeah, exactly. Um, so what I [27:02] experimented with and this is again [27:04] holding down the function key talking to [27:06] codeex or claude and just starting to [27:07] run multiple threads on this idea. This [27:10] probably took u maybe four or five hours [27:12] of the entire thing and then I even have [27:15] a few maybe four or five GitHub uh PRs [27:18] up on Gutenberg. So if any contributors [27:20] in here want to jump on those and help [27:21] push us through, I know I've I've tagged [27:24] George a few times. Thank you, George. [27:26] Um, so one of the things I wanted to [27:28] improve is the the concept of navigating [27:30] within the WordPress editor is we know [27:33] it's complicated. We we see people [27:35] struggle with this. So we see a lot of [27:37] times admin to editor is already a big [27:39] jump but it's necessary. It's big. But [27:41] going even further is I think a little [27:44] bit too much of the complication. So I [27:46] wanted to experiment with one state of [27:48] editing like a header or a template part [27:51] or a synced pattern within the page. So [27:53] right now I can actually make any of the [27:54] changes I want and then click off to go [27:57] back or even unlock. So kind of [28:00] combining the ideas of a locked pattern [28:02] or unlocked. So it's unlocked. I can [28:04] make changes. [28:05] Same thing with a synced pattern. So a [28:07] sync pattern you can't make any changes [28:09] unless you unlock it or edit. Same idea [28:12] where now we're filtering the items on [28:14] the left to just this one pattern. And I [28:16] can make any of the changes I want, all [28:18] the structural changes or whatever. And [28:20] then click done and I'm off. or click [28:22] something else and I'm off. So, it kind [28:23] of reduces the the in and-out of going [28:25] deeper into this thing and then back out [28:27] of it. It's a small thing, but on um [28:30] I've received quite a good quite a good [28:32] amount of feedback on it. Another thing [28:34] I've been just kind of experimenting [28:36] with is the lock mechanism over here. [28:39] And the again these are small things, [28:41] but because they they take just a few [28:43] minutes to to try to really express it's [28:46] been quick to go through and just kind [28:48] of add these functionalities. So like [28:50] locking a place, preventing deletion of [28:52] a specific block or even locking the [28:54] layout and also unlock. So this is in [28:56] trunk today. This is not something you [28:58] can actually edit through here. You have [29:00] to go through a few more options like [29:02] going through here and then this opens [29:04] up like a modal. Then you have to decide [29:05] and read through the modal to find out. [29:07] So I just wanted a faster way to express [29:09] like locking and unlocking of block [29:12] patterns and blocks itself. [29:15] And another quick thing is this menu [29:18] here. just basically taking the new menu [29:21] component that we built for data views [29:23] and leveraging it in block options. So [29:25] then I could be more specific about [29:27] adding more controls without adding any [29:30] more complexity. So I can add a pattern [29:32] after this which opens up the pattern [29:34] explorer and paste it in or I could copy [29:38] something like normal but then maybe [29:40] come here and paste it uh after or [29:43] before. And I didn't add any more [29:45] complexity, but I did add more [29:47] capability without making it complex. [29:51] And the same thing for showing and [29:53] hiding. The show and hide is new for [29:56] WordPress 7.0, but I can instead of [29:58] having another modal come up and you [30:00] have to try to parse through some of the [30:01] settings, we can use this here. And it's [30:04] accessible. So you can use keyboard to [30:06] navigate through each of these. [30:10] Zoom out mode. Also some small [30:12] improvements here. So instead of um some [30:14] of the UI shifting that would happens [30:16] today, some ideas are just again to [30:18] leverage what already exists to paste in [30:21] patterns from the themes pattern library [30:24] and also using the replace functionality [30:26] to do this do to do the same thing [30:28] instead of adding more views or more [30:31] different ways to do things. It's trying [30:33] to be a little bit more opinionated on [30:35] the how so that it becomes less [30:37] confusing over time. [30:40] So, just a few of the small things that [30:42] I've been iterating on and using AI to [30:45] to help me do these ideas fast has been [30:48] like really incredible and I'm hoping to [30:50] get a whole string of these in there and [30:52] uh perhaps the next WordPress release [30:53] will be quite a bit easier to use. [30:56] >> Yeah. Cool. [31:06] >> Yeah. And and and I think also some of [31:08] the small things you were mentioning the [31:10] like how the WordPress design system the [31:12] UI design system is sort of now coming [31:15] to fruition because uh like you ask the [31:18] AI to extend this menu and that thing [31:20] and it's it's it's knowing how to use [31:21] the right components and so on to to [31:23] build the software itself. Um and on the [31:26] other hand it it also like when we keep [31:29] talking about patterns and blocks and so [31:31] on. Um there's been a lot of [31:33] explorations around uh generation like [31:36] are we going to get to a point where the [31:39] signs are generated on the fly uh or [31:42] interfaces themselves in the admin are [31:43] generated on the fly. Um what does that [31:46] mean like do you need permanent [31:48] interfaces or not? And for the [31:50] generation side, I think there were a [31:52] there were a few like uh talks I think [31:54] that hinted at that, but I recall one [31:57] this this week that was um mentioning [32:00] how building with the core pieces of [32:04] blocks and patterns and so on. Um allows [32:07] to have sites that are accessible and [32:09] performant by default. And a lot of [32:12] those things are um question marks when [32:15] you do generation like especially if you [32:18] don't know if you don't have the context [32:20] or if you don't have the right skills [32:22] you're not running the correct things. [32:24] You might end up with a site that's [32:25] completely nonaccessible or even I don't [32:27] know you might end up with a site that's [32:29] fully client render it doesn't even like [32:32] it doesn't load and then you might not [32:33] know oh why am I not getting uh SEO or [32:36] visitors and so on. Uh, so I don't know. [32:39] I'm curious how you think about the [32:40] interplay between the like generation [32:44] and this sort of build from pieces and [32:46] blocks and patterns how it all fits. [32:49] >> Yeah, I mean that's um something that's [32:50] been top of mind for a while. I think [32:52] it's um you know we we can go from [32:55] experiments that generate whole blocks [32:57] that provide we have inspector controls [32:59] and the design system like you said but [33:01] we also can go to then creating patterns [33:04] and then also generating full sites and [33:07] you know it gets increasingly difficult [33:08] as we're building these things out but [33:10] we certainly should have the substrate [33:12] in place today where we can leverage uh [33:15] the pieces of WordPress that we've built [33:17] over time some of which were unplanned [33:18] and led us here today uh where we can [33:21] have the systems here for AI to leverage [33:23] and um others which are like currently [33:25] being developed and we've seen plenty of [33:28] plenty of folks that are building [33:29] different types of full site builders or [33:31] even generative patterns on the on the [33:34] spot and um they're all super [33:35] interesting and I I think I when I think [33:38] about generation you know from like a [33:40] personal perspective I think of um you [33:43] know if I could generate an image and [33:45] it's um an image of the river and the [33:47] castle in the background it's a it [33:49] doesn't have like meaning to me it's not [33:51] really it's not doesn't have any inputs, [33:53] right? I just asked for something. I [33:55] just prompted it. But if I'm going to go [33:58] out there and take a picture myself and [34:00] orient the frame and get the composition [34:02] that best suits what I want, like what [34:05] are those like what are the differences [34:06] that help me get from, you know, a [34:08] meaningless output to something that's [34:10] meaningful? And I'm curious what are the [34:12] same things are when we're generating [34:14] content for our websites or not content, [34:16] but page designs um or even entire [34:19] websites. like what can we do to make it [34:22] meaningful to keep it something that's [34:25] not just ephemeral and you know [34:27] something that doesn't mean anything at [34:28] all especially when we're thinking about [34:30] mission critical like type websites and [34:32] designs like how do we build things that [34:34] best support that and some of the [34:36] abilities work is going in kind of lays [34:38] the framework for that um and I've yeah [34:41] like I said lots of experiments I'm [34:42] really curious like where that goes [34:44] >> yeah I I also think a lot of folks at [34:46] least in the WordPress space have [34:47] converged a bit in some of the name for [34:50] example I I wasn't able to see but I [34:52] think in the CERN talk like there was [34:53] something about the a pipeline that's [34:55] able to generate HTML and then like it [34:58] sort of works in stages and you end up [35:00] with blocks sort of at the very end. [35:02] >> Yes. At least in some of our [35:04] explorations, it's similar that um LLM [35:07] models are very good at creating HTML, [35:10] but if you try to go straight into [35:12] blocks, sometimes you don't get the same [35:14] uh results. But if you stay in HTML, [35:16] then the users are like, how can I edit [35:18] this element and so on. But so starting [35:20] to come up with like these sort of [35:22] stages of transformations and those [35:24] might be like open skills that we share [35:26] we have as part of the yes the WordPress [35:28] repository like knowing how to go from [35:32] um like HTML to blocks and so on is it [35:35] can be pretty powerful. [35:36] >> Yeah. And Figma to HTML to blocks. But [35:39] we've tried everything, haven't we? [35:41] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. [35:42] >> I I think we're running on time. Yes. [35:47] >> Remember me? Okay. Okay. So, sorry to [35:50] interrupt a very nice conversation, but [35:52] I will give you more time to answer [35:54] questions but from you all. [35:57] >> So, we have two microphones in the usual [36:01] spots. Okay. Yeah. I I knew I didn't [36:03] even need to have anything prepared. I [36:06] will be that awkward person standing [36:08] over here moderating and pointing. So, [36:10] please wait your turn. We have about 25 [36:12] minutes. We shall start with you good [36:16] sir. [36:17] >> Hey there people. Nice to see you guys. [36:20] Hope you're doing good. [36:22] >> Uh today is uh actually Oh, uh if Matt [36:25] is watching us, hey Matt, hope you're [36:27] doing good. Good. Um today a question uh [36:31] to the community because I think that uh [36:34] as a WordPress meetup Milan organizer, [36:37] I'm actually thinking and well uh this [36:40] this year I'll I'll turn 25. So uh it's [36:45] nine years now I'm I'm in the WordPress [36:47] community. But now in the last year I I [36:52] really was thinking so much about this [36:55] um [36:57] we are now in a situation where I'll try [36:59] to go fast um [37:02] where I see at least in Italy uh there's [37:07] not so many young people inside and I [37:10] think one of the reason is um [37:15] that we're not able to reach [37:18] uh like a target a specific target that [37:22] know we are able to reach some targets [37:24] of people but not everyone. So Mary a [37:27] question was for you. So uh if I [37:30] remember right you are not coming [37:32] directly from the WordPress world you [37:34] are coming from outside. So I was very [37:37] curious to understand how you discovered [37:39] WordPress and how do you think maybe as [37:42] you know as an outsider allow me to say [37:44] that um exactly if you have maybe have [37:48] any idea on how exactly the web [37:50] community should actually uh try to [37:52] reach also more younger people and in [37:54] general more diverse uh you know people. [37:57] Thank you for that. [37:58] >> Sure. Thank you. Um, so I actually [38:02] started working within WordPress and [38:04] open source in 2019. So I've worked on [38:07] closed systems and open systems, left [38:10] WordPress and then came back. So I have [38:12] some some longevity there. Not as much [38:14] as the, you know, the rest of the crowd. [38:17] Um, but [38:20] understanding and focusing on younger [38:21] generations is actually very important [38:23] to me. I've spoken about it um, [38:24] regarding education and why I believe [38:26] education is so important. Um, in Italy [38:29] specifically, we had our beta program [38:31] with the University of Pisa there. Um, [38:34] and this is the the the launch of the [38:36] WPCC is why I think that focusing in on [38:39] younger generations and bringing them [38:41] into the project in a healthy way with [38:43] the dynamic of education as well as [38:45] mentorship and how we can understand and [38:47] learn from them as well as mentor them [38:50] and try to get them into a contributor a [38:52] better contributor state um is very [38:54] important. Um and it's it's actually [38:57] doing fairly well. Um we we have seen a [39:00] lot more contribution our contribution [39:02] hours for students has increased and now [39:04] we're we're trying to pivot these [39:06] programs into a more wider contributor [39:09] base not just students but understanding [39:11] what students need, why they need them, [39:13] uh what those pathways look like, [39:14] connecting them uh deeper into the teams [39:17] um and to the team reps. And I think [39:19] that that's one of the the keys to our [39:21] meetups actually. And I was asked this [39:23] earlier on a panel, but when I think [39:26] about like WordPress campus connect, um [39:30] what we get from the students themselves [39:32] is that it's so beneficial to them [39:34] because they're they're learning. Um but [39:36] they have a reason to go to that meetup, [39:39] which is what spawns like spins out uh [39:42] clubs, student clubs. There's a reason. [39:44] And when I heard from a lot of our [39:45] European contributors was like, well, [39:47] we're already doing that at our meetups. [39:48] We're already doing that here. Um, and [39:51] so I I think that that's fantastic and [39:53] we should focus on those types of [39:54] meetups and we should expand campus [39:56] connect. And one of the most like one of [39:58] the things I'm really excited about is [40:00] in the states we are piloting um uh an [40:04] AI microcredential with AI leaders. And [40:06] what we've done is we've partnered with [40:08] the University of Chicago as well as uh [40:10] uh some Louisiana uh universities there. [40:13] And the idea is to provide AI literacy [40:17] where WordPress is the playground. [40:20] So, they're actually using um all of the [40:22] skills that they're learning, ethical [40:23] AI, understanding AI literacy, and then [40:25] they get to play with WordPress while [40:27] doing it, and they get to contribute and [40:30] they get to understand and apply those [40:32] skills while learning WordPress. And I I [40:36] think that that's very important because [40:40] and if we have and we've been concerned [40:42] about an aging contributor base, um [40:45] WordPress isn't cool anymore. What makes [40:48] it cool? Um, this is our foot like like [40:51] you just heard like we're doing amazing [40:52] things with AI, but is it out there? We [40:56] need to we need to talk about it. We [40:58] need to bring it in and we need to put [40:59] it in front of these kids who are [41:02] tinkering and exploring um to make it [41:04] grow. And so that's where I'm at. [41:07] >> So most of your of the idea of uh ex [41:10] like growing you know uh reaching uh [41:14] young people is via education channels. [41:17] I see. Okay. Thank you. [41:18] >> Thank you. [41:20] >> Uh before [41:25] we go to Milana, if you guys cannot get [41:28] down to the microphones, just wave your [41:30] hand. We've got Taco over here and he [41:32] really wants to make some more steps. [41:34] So, all right. Thank you. Uh my name is [41:38] Milan Tap. I'm from Serbia and I'm a [41:41] longtime documentation team contributor. [41:44] So, with increased [41:47] um AI usage. [41:50] What do we expect uh to have? What kind [41:54] of effect on make teams? Will some teams [41:57] become obsolid? Will we end up with AI [42:00] and documentation? [42:02] And I mean uh uh how is it going to [42:06] change the community that is building [42:08] the software? [42:11] you want me to take? I I actually um I [42:14] don't think that AI is going to replace [42:16] make teams or um it'll shape and reshape [42:20] the community. Absolutely. But for [42:21] documentation, I think that there's [42:22] there's processes probably that can be [42:25] implemented. I had a great meeting [42:26] yesterday regarding that. Um but what [42:28] does it look like? I'm unsure. But I do [42:30] know that we need human intervention [42:32] regardless. Like rampant and wild AI, [42:35] we're not there today, right? We're not [42:38] like even the things that you're [42:40] testing. But I do think that um we [42:42] should look at where we can automate, [42:43] where we can put in guard rails, where [42:45] we can have a human like your expertise [42:47] within the documentation team, what [42:48] we're doing, how we're doing it um and [42:51] approving things and ensuring that we're [42:52] always optimizing it. [42:54] >> I I I think one one interesting aspect [42:57] is um like historically documentation [43:00] has sort of trail behind the code base. [43:02] I mean, you've advocated for it so many [43:05] times for that to not be the case. I [43:07] think something that that is happening [43:11] now as well is that if code becomes [43:14] more of a disposable artifact, it might [43:17] invert the relationship. It might be [43:20] that documentation determines the code [43:22] instead of [43:23] >> documentationdriven development. Yeah, [43:25] that's nice. Yeah. [43:27] >> And well, first we're being being [43:31] precise about the language and how it [43:33] all comes up. like that might be an area [43:34] where we need to invest more not less [43:37] and so I don't know just a thought there [43:41] >> there's a couple of really good PRs [43:42] actually that dances around that because [43:44] it's like user fe user facing and what [43:46] that looks like and I think that there's [43:49] really good ideas around the project [43:51] that that that will push us in a very [43:54] specific direction so I'm excited to [43:56] what even the documentation team is do [43:58] attempting to do [44:00] >> thank you [44:00] >> thank you [44:08] Hello, my name is Patricia. I'm from [44:10] Geneva, Switzerland. Uh, I know it's a a [44:14] recurring question. Four years ago, Toby [44:17] asked about this. Three years ago in [44:18] Athens, I asked about this. What about [44:22] Miling? Well, [44:24] um, [44:26] we [44:30] Europeans [44:32] won't give up and also you replied [44:36] Matias three years ago that first uh [44:38] some basics to be built into the [44:41] Gutenber project. Uh, isn't is it done [44:45] and what is the future? Thank you. [44:50] >> Good good question. [45:01] I think we're getting closer. And again, [45:04] >> come on now. Come on now. Give us a real [45:06] one. Let's go. [45:08] >> The I I think we've always said like we [45:10] had it as a phase four because we needed [45:13] to get all these things in place. I [45:15] think some of the hiccups we run into [45:17] with uh real time collaboration and so [45:20] on indicate that it's uh yeah we need to [45:23] get all these things laid out properly [45:25] because if we messed up the these data [45:28] structures the cascading effects are [45:30] very wide and very large um I think the [45:34] if we we were almost there I think like [45:36] in a few release maybe we sort of [45:38] tighten that up and I think that would [45:40] start opening up to do to tackle [45:42] multilingual more up front. I still [45:45] think I think at at some previous event [45:47] I said some of the work we were doing [45:49] with uh partially seeing patterns for [45:51] example was directly targeted at [45:54] figuring out how can we decouple uh [45:57] content and presentation in a way that [45:59] we can have the same design being [46:01] supplied by different types of content [46:04] and do it in a way that is not just the [46:07] the text language, right? is also [46:09] localizing the images and and everything [46:12] that might be around it and doing it as [46:14] wide as possible so that plugins can [46:16] also tap into that and so on. So we're [46:19] we're I think we're like laying up the [46:21] the systems in there. It's not it might [46:24] not be super visible and so on. But I'm [46:26] it's also like very dear to my heart as [46:28] well like again from English is not my [46:32] first language either. So I I think it's [46:34] something that um we should do. I think [46:37] the [46:40] it's also I mean there was a thing like [46:42] what like what's the point of [46:43] translation now with AI coming in and [46:45] and offering all of those things and [46:48] it's it's a very different like for me [46:50] personally it's a very different subject [46:52] the access to information through [46:55] automated translations and the control [46:58] that a site can have on the content that [47:00] they want to put out if it's bilingual [47:02] and so on. So I think it's a tool that [47:04] needs to exist in WordPress. Um with [47:07] real time we're discussing exactly what [47:09] belongs in core and what belongs in [47:11] plugins uh so that we can do the best [47:14] possible job there. With multilingual it [47:16] might be similar what are the sort of [47:18] primitives that we need in the project [47:20] to maybe allow like have like better [47:22] plug-in support for some of these tools. [47:25] Um but yeah it's I don't know I don't [47:27] know what else to say. I think it it is [47:29] coming. I think we're making progress [47:31] towards there. Um hopefully with AI we [47:34] can accelerate some of these road mapaps [47:36] but I I also appreciate the question [47:40] coming up because I think showing that [47:42] it's a that it's important uh that that [47:45] it's a crucial piece of um how we [47:49] express ourselves, how sites work and so [47:50] on. It's we need to remind ourselves of [47:53] that often. So thank you. [47:56] >> Face for the win. [48:05] Hello. Uh my name is David. I'm from [48:07] here from Poland. Um on the organizer [48:09] local team. So thank you for being here. [48:12] Uh and I hope you enjoy the event venue [48:15] and and the city. Um also thank you for [48:17] the demos. I kind of felt like I'm like [48:19] in the uh in the you know team chat, [48:22] team Zoom call when you know people do [48:24] the demos for of what they working on. [48:26] So it was super fun to get like the [48:28] insights of what what you guys are up [48:29] to. Um but also uh you know I I know [48:35] you're super invested in open source but [48:37] um of course as you said with AI is is [48:39] great opportunity to do a lot of things [48:42] and uh proceed with things much faster [48:44] than normally but it also comes with [48:46] risks right if you are open source [48:48] you're kind of like prone to cloning [48:51] we've seen that with mdash recently and [48:54] also [48:57] many companies they take all the code [48:59] and closed source like Kalcom for [49:01] example recently too. So I'm thinking to [49:04] like my question is is there any like [49:07] even ideas coming you know your way that [49:09] maybe we should take some services [49:11] closed source or maybe new things that [49:12] we create closed source despite you know [49:15] WordPress being like um super open [49:17] source by nature and if not maybe is [49:19] there any like a mitigation plan for [49:21] this or if there's not why do you think [49:24] WordPress is is immune to those risks? [49:28] Yeah, I I think it's it's a great [49:30] question. I I think there there was even [49:32] a a moment it was a bit tongue and cheek [49:35] I think with some projects, but they [49:37] remove like the public tests so that [49:40] they it could not be like transformed [49:43] into a different like rewrite this [49:45] project in this other language and so [49:46] on. So if we don't have the test suite, [49:49] you cannot do that. I think a few [49:50] projects did sort of tongue and cheek [49:52] when those things were happening like [49:54] Nex.js JS got written and so on or mdash [49:57] and so forth. Um I it it feels to me [50:00] that it comes back to the [50:03] like I I don't think we should take open [50:05] source for granted. I think it's [50:08] something that needs to be um it needs [50:11] to be protected. It needs to be [50:12] cherished. needs to be and and that's [50:14] something that we do all together like [50:16] it's a that's the main part that it [50:18] belongs to all of us and and yes there [50:21] are risks because the the incentives are [50:24] not always aligned with um giving back [50:27] to the commons I think in general um so [50:31] that's [50:32] I I don't think that there's anything to [50:35] be done I think anything that you do at [50:37] the coase or that you lock down is [50:39] shortsighted because the the part that [50:42] has made WordPress thrive. I think it's [50:45] really the openness. It's a true open [50:47] source, not just in in name and and that [50:51] means because that to me like it goes [50:53] back to education. I think the for [50:56] people to be able to read and learn and [50:58] and now with AI to be able to transform [51:01] and shape it in whatever way they want, [51:04] I think that always is is more important [51:06] than the risks um that may be associated [51:10] with that. Um, however, I think like we [51:13] should also not be naive. We should also [51:15] like be looking at like how things are [51:17] shaping and and so on. There's there's [51:19] always like powerful factors going on in [51:21] the world and so on. And it's uh so I [51:24] don't know but I feel like it's [51:26] something that we just need to be [51:27] embracing together and and discussing [51:30] and and coming up with um I don't know [51:33] even the like the some of the plug-in [51:35] directory stuff with all these we've [51:37] seen with AI all these um attacks that [51:41] happen at the supply level and so it's [51:44] again the directory [51:47] the is a very powerful and useful tool [51:50] that gives developers ers and users a [51:53] lot of these abilities but as we're [51:55] seeing more and more and I don't know I [51:57] think like there were some stats that [51:58] the directory is seeing like a really [52:00] huge amount of plug-in submissions now [52:02] with AI as well and so okay what are the [52:05] security components of that and how can [52:07] we do it in a way that that is not [52:09] making things more opaque but more open [52:11] and more decisive and so on I don't know [52:13] that those are some of my [52:15] >> well I also think that this is a perfect [52:17] time to start talking about AI and open [52:19] source because we can talk about [52:20] WordPress and and how it is open source [52:22] and how important it is, but it's lost [52:24] on people who aren't necessarily in this [52:26] day-to-day. However, AI is a real [52:28] concern for closed systems. A very big [52:31] concern that I don't think society is [52:32] recognizing at the level that it should. [52:34] And I think that people in this room [52:36] should be speaking about it very openly. [52:38] Do you really want control from AI to be [52:40] with three companies or three countries? [52:42] We don't. It's a great open door to talk [52:46] about the importance of open source, why [52:47] AI should be open source, why should [52:49] that should shape policy globally. Um, [52:52] and you can point back to WordPress as [52:54] open source and how it's thriving and [52:56] why it's thriving for transparency, not [52:58] because of trust. Companies talk about [53:00] trust often, but what does trust truly [53:02] mean with closed systems? And so [53:06] WordPress is open source, should be open [53:08] source. It's as large as it is because [53:09] it's open source. And so when I think [53:11] about AI and the impacts of that, yes, [53:13] that's a technical impact and we're [53:15] looking at how that is, but we should be [53:16] thinking at it as a societal change and [53:19] shift and societyy's not fully bought [53:22] into AI. We're in this room talking [53:25] about it. We're excited, but there are [53:26] true concerns that are sitting behind [53:28] it. And it's one of it's our generation [53:30] that will tackle this new technology and [53:32] we need to do it right. And all of us [53:34] have experience with open source. This [53:36] ecosystem is what has brought us [53:38] together and th those types of values [53:41] should shape AI and we should be talking [53:44] about it and we should be much louder [53:46] about it as well. [53:53] >> Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So just [53:55] just sorry for the followup but if I'm [53:57] reading this correctly what you're [53:58] saying is basically what we want to do [54:00] is we want to be ahead of the curve by [54:02] adding more features and being ahead of [54:03] everyone and basically you can copy [54:05] whatever you want but the time by the [54:07] time you do it we just do it basically [54:09] ways way ahead of you and then we still [54:11] >> play the long game. [54:13] >> Thank you. Okay. Um, and just really [54:15] quickly before you, just a reminder, if [54:18] you cannot reach these mics, like throw [54:20] me some jazz hands or do a little dance. [54:22] I'll come find you with a mic and we [54:24] only have five more minutes. So, maybe [54:27] you have a fast question. Speed round. [54:29] Speed round. Yeah. Nice. [54:30] >> I'll try to be quick. Hi, I'm Farhan. [54:32] I'm based out of Sweden. Um, thank you [54:35] for for the amazing chat. Um, as a [54:38] freelancer, pushing the changes from [54:40] staging to production has always been [54:43] very painful, mostly because it's a [54:46] manual process. And while you're doing [54:49] those changes on the staging side, [54:52] production has probably already evolved. [54:54] Maybe you've received new orders or [54:56] whatever, right? So, what are your [54:58] thoughts on that? Maybe a diffing tool [55:01] where you could pick and choose what you [55:03] want to who you want to publish. I think [55:05] that would make my life very easy. I [55:08] don't know about the rest of the people. [55:16] Um it's a there's a there's a lot of [55:18] ongoing work happening there around [55:20] playground and uh I forget the name now [55:23] but it's a we're exploring sync [55:24] mechanisms to be able to move sites fast [55:28] so whole WordPress sites but then also [55:31] at a granular level and that goes back [55:33] to how can we diff at the database level [55:36] how can we diff at the theme templates [55:40] content level and and do this sort of [55:42] partial syncs effectively. Um, some of [55:45] that work is uh grounded on things like [55:48] the HTML API as well to allow us to uh [55:52] traverse the whole uh website in that [55:54] way. Uh, but you should you should check [55:56] out some of the work around playground [55:58] and so on in for example in the in the [56:01] studio code that we have been developing [56:03] as a sort of a clot code for for [56:06] WordPress. That's a crucial piece as [56:08] well is because you have your local side [56:10] you're pushing either to staging or to [56:12] production and then between them and how [56:14] you transfer between those things fast [56:17] safely. Um that's also somewhat [56:20] connected with the collaboration work [56:23] and why collaboration is important as [56:25] well even if you don't have multiple [56:28] users on a site is because fundamentally [56:31] you're always dealing with these [56:32] comparisons and different and what's the [56:34] source of truth what's the canonical and [56:37] how can you merge those changes [56:38] effectively I think there's a lot of [56:40] work to be done there at both the the [56:43] software level and then sort of like a [56:45] step back and how do we manipulate the [56:47] database and so on. Um but yeah, those [56:50] are I think it's a very active space of [56:52] research now to for the project. [56:55] >> I think it's called studio reprint [56:57] >> or play around reprint. [57:00] >> Yes. [57:00] >> And um yeah, Adam Zalinsky is in is he [57:03] probably is somewhere in here, but [57:04] somewhere [57:04] >> he's here at work camp. He's the [57:06] >> Yeah, if if you can find Adam Sinsky [57:08] afterwards that you can drill him on on [57:11] how that works and so on. [57:13] >> He's the expert. [57:15] >> Thank you. [57:16] >> Thank you. [57:21] three minutes for both of you guys. So, [57:23] quick answers. [57:24] >> Okay. Okay. Matias, there's a lot of [57:25] people with quick questions. Hey, Mary, [57:27] Rich, Jonathan from South Africa. Um, [57:30] one of the one of the sort of problems [57:32] that the project has had for a while is [57:33] often issues and PRs and things like [57:35] that will get stuck in like decades long [57:37] conversations. Um, and we all know that [57:40] Matt, for example, likes to get things [57:41] done. He recently was on record of [57:43] saying, "Let's get things done." And [57:44] creating a channel and making things [57:45] move. We don't all have Matt level [57:48] powers to be able to get things done [57:49] like that. So my question to all three [57:50] of you is what can we as users of [57:53] WordPress, contributors of WordPress. [57:55] What can and should we be doing [57:57] differently to move for forward faster [57:59] and get things done? Because if we [58:02] don't, we get left behind. Uh so what is [58:04] your advice uh to all of us? [58:06] >> Yeah, I'll take this one. Um, one of the [58:09] the best use cases that I I've I've had [58:11] with you know old track tickets or old [58:13] GitHub issues or PRs or even whole [58:15] features that have been uh over time [58:17] antiquated or needing some updates is to [58:20] get use AI to find the summary of why [58:22] this is the way it is today and what is [58:24] the history what were the blockers in [58:25] the past and then as I'm suggesting the [58:27] new thing or pushing out the new thing I [58:29] bring all that with me. So it's like as [58:30] much as I can stack this thing so I have [58:32] the right context, right information for [58:34] the next folks to read and to understand [58:36] and to parse to help get this thing [58:38] through and and that's helped [58:40] tremendously and I've been telling a lot [58:42] of folks and contributors as well to do [58:44] the same because it's so easy now to [58:45] even ask like Claude in your editor like [58:47] hey can you find out why we changed this [58:49] label or why why we've done this [58:51] particular path and um and find out why [58:53] and look read through it'll read through [58:55] GitHub and find those things for you and [58:56] that kind of helps like stage the right [58:59] context. for the decision. Um versus in [59:01] the past we'd have to find out or ask or [59:04] scale. Yeah, exactly. Scale as wide as [59:06] we can and it's just been um that's [59:08] that's what's slow. [59:12] >> I would just say to [59:14] reach out. Um there's been a couple of [59:16] tickets that I've just been going [59:17] through at random and it doesn't it just [59:20] seems that they've stalled simply [59:21] because no one made a decision. [59:24] And so it's that decision, who who's [59:27] making the decision and and and why and [59:29] how and and like really thinking about [59:30] it at a project level. Who owns that [59:32] decision in a democracy? [59:35] And we we've talked about looking at old [59:37] tickets and just starting to close them [59:38] if they're relevant and what's not [59:39] relevant. I still think that we need to [59:40] go through that exercise. There was a [59:42] ticket I pinged Dasi about like a couple [59:44] weeks ago. He's, "Oh, I opened that and [59:45] I closed it. It's gone now." Right? And [59:47] so and I'm just kind of looking at [59:48] things as they go. So I would I would [59:51] just contact the person whose PR is make [59:52] a comment and simply say like is this [59:54] even still relevant and if really need [59:56] be ping ping [59:59] >> thank you [60:06] and we have from local team and I would [60:08] like to know if if any or how do you see [60:11] the future of the TX program [60:14] >> TX [60:15] >> of the TX program [60:17] >> TX [60:18] >> um you see the future of it [60:21] >> that I think well it touches a bit on [60:22] what we were discussing about the [60:24] generation versus the um how do we [60:27] navigate uh that sort of space um we are [60:31] now we're we're sort of exploring both [60:33] in tlex and studio code the [60:37] >> microphone [60:38] >> like it's ultimately a lot of the [60:39] grounding is on the model so it's really [60:41] just like what sort of skills you have [60:44] on top of that and what sort of [60:45] workflows you build around that um it's [60:48] a very active project that we're like [60:50] figuring out where it goes. I think it's [60:53] um [60:57] >> there's a lot of potential in those [60:59] things I think to and especially to [61:01] extract the things that can be that can [61:05] be shared that can be like used and [61:07] reused around like if we come up with a [61:09] really solid skill to transform HTML to [61:12] blocks is something that maybe it [61:14] emerges in TX but we can also use in [61:16] studio code it could be used in general [61:18] is uh that's part of the like sharing [61:20] those those things the we found some [61:23] workflows that are kind of critical like [61:25] sort of self-healing loops um both in TX [61:29] and studio code that go around taking [61:32] screenshots for example if you instruct [61:34] the agent to or you give it the [61:36] capabilities to as it's iterating take a [61:40] screenshot validate if it's correct if [61:42] it's what you want and then also [61:45] validate blocks loops performance loops [61:48] security loops accessibility loops and [61:50] so on then it keeps going and you end up [61:52] in in something that that makes sense [61:53] for some of the Figma work. Um it's like [61:57] if it's able to process and see how the [61:59] initial Figma looks, it's able to on its [62:02] own say, "Oh, this actually I took a [62:04] screenshot on mobile doesn't quite look [62:05] like the thing, so I'm going to fix it [62:07] myself without having to ping you or [62:10] have the human sort of intervene." Um [62:13] but yeah, I think it's a very that's uh [62:15] some of the most exciting stuff I think [62:17] is happening around those. So yeah, [62:20] happy to check it out. Like keep looking [62:22] at it. Uh the it's a studio code. It's [62:25] also all open source so you can like [62:26] have an [62:28] >> Yeah, we love to talk more about it [62:30] afterwards. [62:31] >> Okay. [62:31] >> Maybe at the party [62:34] we catch up. [62:37] >> Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you [62:38] guys. [62:40] >> I also want to appreciate bringing this [62:42] together super fast. I know it wasn't as [62:44] planned. So, here's a little gift from [62:46] Word Camp organizers and a big round of [62:49] applause for our fireside chat. [62:51] >> Thank you. [62:52] >> Thank you.  📄 **Full text:** ![[Full Document Contents/Articles/WordCamp Europe 2026 - Fireside Chat & Q&A.md|WordCamp Europe 2026 - Fireside Chat & Q&A by YouTube]] ## Highlights - WordPress um starting in October their university will open up uh a WordPress specific course where WordPress will be mandatory um and that is the University of Technology Crackout um so it's a huge ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01ktffwvjcerrxv102mggvyhpn)) - Note: Adoption signal: the University of Technology Kraków is launching a mandatory WordPress-specific course starting October. - Tags: wceu-2026, education, atom/literature/h2, wordpress - changes and, you know, the green and the red if you're looking at revisions, but with 7.0, you can actually see a visual change. So, if you drag it from the left, it's kind of like dragging back in time and seeing your page back in time ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01ktffx72ctda6jz5q5m2cbn2e)) - Note: WP 7.0 revisions get a visual diff: drag the slider to "go back in time" and see the page render as it was, not just red/green text changes. - Tags: atom/literature/h3, wordpress-7, wceu-2026