2025 WordPress Predictions  ## Metadata - Author: [[WP Minute Tutorials]] - Full Title: 2025 WordPress Predictions - Category: #articles - Document Note: --- tags: - #WordPress - #OpenSource - #2025Predictions - #CMS - #AI - #Accessibility - #CommunityGrowth - #ContributorEngagement - #TechTrends Author: WP Minute Panelists Source: [2025 WordPress Predictions Transcript](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rezkof5PKn8) date created: 2025-01-08 09:00 --- # Title: 2025 WordPress Predictions ## Table of Contents: - [📝 Summary](#summary) - [📖 Main Content](#main-content) - [🗒️ Notes](#notes) - [📖 References](#references) - [🗣️ Paraphrase](#paraphrase) - [📰 Newsletter](#newsletter) - [✅ Action Items](#action-items) - [🧪 Hypotheses](#hypotheses) - [📊 Methodology](#methodology) - [❓ Questions](#questions) - [🔮 Future Research](#future-research) - [💡 Implications](#implications) - [🧠 Learning Styles Assessment](#learning-styles-assessment) - [📊 Accessibility Assessment](#accessibility-assessment) - [🌍 DEIB (Diversity, Equity, Inclusion, and Belonging) Assessment](#deib-assessment) - [✅ Logical Validity](#logical-validity) - [🔍 DARVO Analysis](#darvo-analysis) - [🔍 SEO Evaluation](#seo-evaluation) - [🎯 Conclusion](#conclusion) ### References: - [Transcript for 2025 WordPress Predictions](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rezkof5PKn8) ## 📝 Summary: In this lively discussion, panelists from the WordPress community share their predictions for the year 2025, covering diverse topics such as AI integration, contributor engagement, accessibility, and the evolution of WordPress as a content management system. Predictions highlight increasing community fragmentation, the role of AI in enhancing user experiences, and the importance of accessibility in web development. There’s also focus on the future of WordPress playgrounds and its potential to become a leading platform for web development. ## 📖 Main Content: ### 🗒️ Notes: - **AI and WordPress**: - Panelists foresee AI playing a critical role in WordPress, especially in automating technical documentation, translations, and synthesizing code for development. However, AI is not expected to replace human creativity or technical expertise in web development. - **Key Insight**: AI’s strength lies in streamlining repetitive tasks, such as code debugging and user-generated content management, rather than replacing human-driven innovation. - **WordPress Playground**: - The community anticipates the WordPress Playground to evolve as a de facto starting point for users. The tool will enable users to try out WordPress without installing it, making it a useful sandbox for experimentation. - **Key Challenge**: There are concerns about WordPress’ current onboarding process, which remains a barrier for newcomers despite the convenience of the Playground. - **Agency Focus**: - Predictions point to WordPress focusing more on agencies in 2025, with new features and tools designed to support agency workflows, particularly around full-site editing and responsive design. - **Insight**: Agencies, as power users of WordPress, are expected to shape the direction of its development with more customized tools. - **Contributor Engagement**: - The prediction that contributor engagement will continue to diversify globally, particularly in regions like India and Pakistan, highlights the growing international community contributing to WordPress development. - **Insight**: This shift also calls for addressing the barriers some contributors face, including the internal politics that may push North American and European contributors to disengage. - **Community Fragmentation**: - There’s a growing sense that WordPress contributors may seek alternative, unofficial ways to engage, outside of the traditional WordCamp structures. - **Key Insight**: These informal networks may become an important part of the ecosystem as users move away from formal, centralized WordPress events. --- tags: - #WordPress - #OpenSource - #2025Predictions - #CMS - #AI - #Accessibility - #CommunityGrowth - #ContributorEngagement - #TechTrends Author: WP Minute Panelists Source: [2025 WordPress Predictions Transcript](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rezkof5PKn8) date created: 2025-01-08 09:00 --- # Title: 2025 WordPress Predictions ## Table of Contents: - [📝 Summary](#summary) - [📖 Main Content](#main-content) - [🗒️ Notes](#notes) - [📖 References](#references) - [🗣️ Paraphrase](#paraphrase) - [📰 Newsletter](#newsletter) - [✅ Action Items](#action-items) - [🧪 Hypotheses](#hypotheses) - [📊 Methodology](#methodology) - [❓ Questions](#questions) - [🔮 Future Research](#future-research) - [💡 Implications](#implications) - [🧠 Learning Styles Assessment](#learning-styles-assessment) - [📊 Accessibility Assessment](#accessibility-assessment) - [🌍 DEIB (Diversity, Equity, Inclusion, and Belonging) Assessment](#deib-assessment) - [✅ Logical Validity](#logical-validity) - [🔍 DARVO Analysis](#darvo-analysis) - [🔍 SEO Evaluation](#seo-evaluation) - [🎯 Conclusion](#conclusion) ### References: - [Transcript for 2025 WordPress Predictions](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rezkof5PKn8) ## 📝 Summary: In this lively discussion, panelists from the WordPress community share their predictions for the year 2025, covering diverse topics such as AI integration, contributor engagement, accessibility, and the evolution of WordPress as a content management system. Predictions highlight increasing community fragmentation, the role of AI in enhancing user experiences, and the importance of accessibility in web development. There’s also focus on the future of WordPress playgrounds and its potential to become a leading platform for web development. ## 📖 Main Content: ### 🗒️ Notes: - **AI and WordPress**: - Panelists foresee AI playing a critical role in WordPress, especially in automating technical documentation, translations, and synthesizing code for development. However, AI is not expected to replace human creativity or technical expertise in web development. - **Key Insight**: AI’s strength lies in streamlining repetitive tasks, such as code debugging and user-generated content management, rather than replacing human-driven innovation. - **WordPress Playground**: - The community anticipates the WordPress Playground to evolve as a de facto starting point for users. The tool will enable users to try out WordPress without installing it, making it a useful sandbox for experimentation. - **Key Challenge**: There are concerns about WordPress’ current onboarding process, which remains a barrier for newcomers despite the convenience of the Playground. - **Agency Focus**: - Predictions point to WordPress focusing more on agencies in 2025, with new features and tools designed to support agency workflows, particularly around full-site editing and responsive design. - **Insight**: Agencies, as power users of WordPress, are expected to shape the direction of its development with more customized tools. - **Contributor Engagement**: - The prediction that contributor engagement will continue to diversify globally, particularly in regions like India and Pakistan, highlights the growing international community contributing to WordPress development. - **Insight**: This shift also calls for addressing the barriers some contributors face, including the internal politics that may push North American and European contributors to disengage. - **Community Fragmentation**: - There’s a growing sense that WordPress contributors may seek alternative, unofficial ways to engage, outside of the traditional WordCamp structures. - **Key Insight**: These informal networks may become an important part of the ecosystem as users move away from formal, centralized WordPress events. ### 📖 References: - WP Minute predictions and discussion on community engagement, accessibility, and future technology integration. ## 🗣️ Paraphrase: - **Original Text**: "I think the future of WordPress is going to start in the playground... it's going to be a fantastic way for folks to start playing with things." - **Paraphrase**: WordPress is likely to move towards a more accessible starting point for users through the Playground, providing an ideal environment for newcomers to explore without the risk of messing up their existing - Summary: What will happen next? Tune in to guess with us! - URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rezkof5PKn8 [Music] and we're live with the largest uh WP minute Round Table we've ever had everybody welcome back uh to uh the wp minute youtube.com/ WP minutes it's the New Year's 2025 it's the first uh live stream that we've done here Mark's done about 16 of them since uh since the new year since the turn of the calendar we're going to hear from him and the other fabulous uh panel in a moment talking 2025 WordPress predictions uh if you're in the chat go ahead and say hi throw in your prediction predictions and then um maybe at the end of this round table as we go through we'll have a little bit of Q&A talking about the stuff that the panel shared um in today's live stream as always at wp.com subscribe join that mailing list it's the number one way to stay connected and by the way have a little New Year's little New Year's uh it's it's a prediction but it's also an announcement right so I announc at the end of 2024 that uh I'm the new owner of Master wp.com now uh happy to say if I can find the share button here uh that you can get early access to a new project that's coming soon that's what I have right there it's a blank landing page because I'm such a professional you can visit CMS minute.com for a sister publication to the wp.com and join that mailing list over there CMS minute.com can anyone guess what the CMS minute is going to cover hearing none content Management Systems that's what we're going to cover at CMS minute we're going to go around the world and look at places like ghost um statamic expression engine Squarespace Wix Drupal we're going to cover everything and a little bit of Wordpress on the CMS minutes a podcast coming soon got a few episodes already in the can check it out CMS minute.com literally nothing there but if you want to know when I launch it and when the First episodes come sign up hit the little red subscribe button upper right hand corner CMS minute.com let's kick it to Brian cords Brian from California where can folks find you let's get all the thank yous and Kudos out of the way first for the panel Brian where can folks find you on the web wait first of all why ghost why why ghost for CMS minute this is why this is why Brian's he knows right he knows let me kick it back uh to uh my share screen here uh CMS minute brought to you by ghost John O Nolan and I have collaborated on uh this little Venture he is the Premier sponsor of uh CMS minute if you want a sponsor reach out to me uh CMS minute.com that's your answer Brian thanks uh you can find me at Brian chords.com right now X Blue Sky masteron YouTube uh all those sorts of things and recently uh podcasting at web masters. FM and this week was a fun one with a developer Amore over at webd Studios next week I have a really fun AI one coming a few other cool conversations already recorded so uh yeah that's where I am my third musketeer who also likes to get named in legal court documents Courtney Roberts and Courtney welcome uh where can we find you who whoa whoa wait wait I'm sorry in the court apparently yes that uh Courtney R.D is my main website you can find all the links to my socials there I am Courtney RoR Dev or ddev on all the social platforms happy to connect with all the people new co-host of the show Brennan oconnell Brennan where can folks find you well thank you for having me uh my website's Brendan dnell docomo apostrophe because that's a dying breed on the internet uh I you know I have a small YouTube channel I do agency work uh you can find links to my socials uh Mark zansky the man who just bought himself his first set of luggage to venture across the country where can folks find you it's a busy travel Year Matt come on man uh yeah so Mark samansky MJS by you can find all my links and everything there I make content I try to educate people when I can I like to learn try share everything and I do just want to point out as we get started here that I feel like you're moderating a little battle between Pennsylvania and California here 2 PA residents two California residents on this uh on this thing here so I might have a little bit of a go Pennsylvania yeah PA team PA this is true does anyone follow Pittsburgh Pennsylvania oh okay yeah the whole conversation is oh pit oh Pittsburgh Pittsburgh Pittsburgh dog Pittsburgh it's do it like I mentioned at the top of the show and in the title we're talking about 2025 WordPress uh predictions we see some folks or I see some folks uh in the chat I'm going to pull up uh a blog post that I recent that I recently put out and we're going to cover some of my predictions we're going to go around the horn and cover our panelist predictions um I'm going to drop this in the chat as well after I sto talking about it you can go to the wp.com homepage you'll see some picture you'll see a an image of a cloud that forms the number 2025 you can click on it and see this I'm going to skip the first two predictions because we want to keep this conversation pretty tight and um interactive I'm going to go to my third prediction of 2025 that I put out here on this blog post and that is the playground is the future of Wordpress and I kind of tucked in another prediction inside of this uh section as well that says hey look we WordPress is probably going to get better year after year as it always does better subjectively 5% 10% better whatever that is but I think the future of Wordpress is going to start in the playground in other words when you go to Wordpress uh.org and you know the first steps uh will be hey start playing with WordPress in your browser before you even download anything um if you're a new user this is obviously a fantastic way to trial WordPress without downloading anything if you're an existing WordPress user and you don't want to mess up your website um I think the playground is going to be a fantastic way for folks to start playing with things obviously without breaking it's quite technical now there's still some hiccups I do run into some issues with the playground but I think uh that's going to be the driving technical um uh feature product of Wordpress in 2025 think automatics going to invest a lot into that throughout the year uh thoughts comments suggestions on playground being the de facto experience for WordPress moving forward playground is kind of becoming that because uh they're using it for wordpress.com local development app studio so uh and that's getting getting closer to being matching features with you know WP engines local WP tool and we'll probably catch that um you can use Studio or playground to build mobile apps with WordPress as like the engine running it I think that's an exciting place um I think a lot of those things are going to be great I think the idea that people will go to see playground and try WordPress is not as I'm not excited about that one mainly because WordPress does not have a great onboarding experience uh hosts have great onboarding experience GoDaddy has an onboarding experience WordPress core by it self not a great onboarding experience so if they don't solve that then opening up WordPress you know a few seconds faster is still not going to help if you're just immediately thrown into you know the non- onboarding but otherwise yes I think playground I agree with you on playground I think that's you're going to see more and more playground stuff coming from from automatic I think kind of tied with that we'll see some of the hiccups that SQL light offers versus more traditional SQL being resolved so right now we know that there are a couple of times where if you're running playground and you go to do some testing of new Gutenberg features or something um go reproduce it in a traditional environment before you log that ticket or issue because sometimes the difference between how the server side is working can be where the bug is and I think we'll probably find some parody where some of those weird Edge case things that SQL light does that traditional SQL doesn't do that that will get resolved from a user perspective and I think also we'll probably start seeing some more places besides just uh wordpress.com having their own versions of playgrounds and perhaps maybe some more Dev tooling to go with it so um I'd love to see some integration right inside of something like playground that would help the mid-range devs with some of their git commits right like we could still do it but I would love to see a bit of a middle range ground where folks that like to get into the code a bit but don't want to get overwhelmed with the code don't want to dabble in command line to send their commits in and all of that I'd love to see a little bit more integration in that area Mark there's always things in the Nuance a in the Nuance Zone what are your thoughts on playground uh I've used it here and there I think the concept of playground is fantastic I love the idea I think you mentioned it when I listen to your blog post because you know I didn't read it uh you the uh it better have been in my voice it better not have been some I like kind of use it to I use it to go to sleep it's very soothing you have a nice voice so anyway um when I was listening to it uh I I I completely agree with what you're saying I wish more SAS products did give you like full reign of access but I agree with what Brian said too that I'm not sure if that's really going to like move the needle because it's it's going to be a different experience there's a lot more overhead especially if you want to deal with likeor you know your.org style that we're accustom to rather than like a DOT type thing um so I mean I'm very bullish on the idea of playground I'm I'm even more bullish on the I the concept of a playground regardless if it's WordPress or not um but specifically for WordPress I think it'll if done properly and like Courtney said like maybe different instances of playgrounds different like setups I mean I think you can already do that right you can kind of like set up like little almost templated playgrounds or blueprints or whatever so um yeah I mean I think I think it's going to continue to evolve and get better I do think that's a a shining star of the the whole experience right now for sure Brandon I look to you to be the pass or fail guy on this call does this a prediction pass or fail yeah I'd say that passes I mean playground is is a really interesting concept I think it has a lot of potential it it still kind of throws me off with the sort of inception Vibe of the different browser windows but you know like everything in WordPress it moves a little bit slower but it'll get there and you know I'm I'm pretty pretty excited for that Prospect uh moving forward so I'd say pass thank you I appreciate that let's go to the wheel to see who's next uh on the prediction I'm going to spin the wheel uh my name is excluded from this list let's spin it and see who's next to share their prediction oh the man himself Brian go ahead and uh share your prediction I have a couple predictions I have more anti- predictions my list of things that are not going to happen in 2025 but I'll give a I'll give a a positive Priss uh prediction I think that we will see WordPress core finally this year really push more towards the agency market the agency developer I think we'll see a lot more doubling down on that versus the DIY beginner blogger um at least I wrote that before there was the whole Wei goofy designed themes uh argument online but which is the really like undermines my whole premise keep us in the lane Brian keep us in the lane we don't we don't want anyone knocking on my slack door asking to come on the live stream I just uh I do think that that they're seeing the value of agencies of advanced workflows of you know things like that so I think Studio like I said is a a good example of getting something more powerful um so my big prediction is we're going to see stuff in fulls side editing they promised responsive design is coming I don't necessarily believe them but the fact that they're at least open to it is a big positive step for agencies so power tools agencies that sort of stuff that's my big prediction do you think this goes into that territory of like who is word press 4 finally getting solved in 2025 or at least leaning in that direction it's going to be for the the agency developer more poignantly moving forward I think that there is a hosting company that was very good at wooing agencies and that hosting company is now not really uh part of the allowed to be part of the community and there needs to be a place for those agencies to go and I think a lot of us were probably not super happy with that hosting company anyway regardless of 2024's events so um I think it's an open market and I think they you know any company would be foolish not to pursue agencies people who launch lots and lots of websites who advise people on where to spend their hosting dollars um I think it's a it's a smart move it's like my legal bills just go up with when you're around Brian I you know I just G to have a a lawyer on retainer when I have you on the call did I say anyone else anyone else want to comment just just calling out that he said wooing uh I don't I don't know if that was a a hint at anything no no not really um I think along the lines of agencies uh I don't want to reveal what mine is when the wheel comes to me but I think yes that we'll see a big push more towards I think over the last couple years we've seen a push toward agency culture and what part subcontractors can also play in that process uh I think that we'll see more tooling more part of my Dev rail World more more of the developer user experience uh throughout all hosting providers of what do devs actually need and that kind of deails the little off of playground and having various versions of playground set up Mark or anyone else want to comment just I got a quick one just I mean I I I'd be interested to know like why that's more of the case like I agree with I agree with the premise there that we'll probably see more of that cuz it's kind of been hinted at here and there um I'm not sure if it's just like I I I always like wonder if it's kind of like money related not like wordpress.org specifically but just like kind of the apparatus of automatic if there's like do we see more money like have we never seen the opportunity that agencies and Freelancers everything like that provide and was just going kind of more the DIY route and marketing there or just like you know kind of assimilating ourselves with that or associating ourselves with that um so I'd be interested in like kind of like if we could ever get more um reasons why that like this is the case that now we're thinking about you know things as simple as uh you know responsive design and all that sort of stuff to cater to them I do my my my hypothesis there is that other platforms are doing it now as well like I mean you see it like Wix is upping their game Squarespace is upping their game like they're all doing those and regardless they're not like huge competitors obviously WordPress is huge right now but like uh I just think other people are doing it and it's like oh they're not just for diyers anymore and I think that might play small small B the the factor but I don't know we'll see how it plays out I think it's a good prediction really quick for a for for a u a way to think about this are we are we predicting what we want to happen or what we think's going to happen either way I'll take it it's content that's easy talking I'll play the heel the devil's advocate here and think say that that's not going to happen uh we're not going to get any of those features we want uh it's going to be a slow race to the bot love it so I changed my the counter that's in there is that I feel like the web dev industry as a whole has to grow up a little bit more dare I say because of litigation not just WordPress drama litigation but more along the lines of um accessibility is now sweeping throughout Europe as part of the eu's rulings um that sites must become more accessible the idea of a DIY being able to just get up and running and meet compliance I think we're going to see uh America pick up roughly where the EU is um we'll start seeing things more like Ada but for the web here in this in North America as well um I just feel like there's parts of building your website where even small businesses will be a little more attuned to the fact that they can't be the experts of building their website and running their business um I think that that's just a continual evolving process I didn't go to go go ahead Brian oh I was saying I didn't intentionally say woo but I think woo is a great example of uh you know their focus on accessibility how much they've invested in Amber uh hines's Team to make different changes and you should also read Bo the head of engineering there his sort of 2025 we're going to spend the year cleaning up and making the platform itself better and bringing in more functionality and power to it so I mean I think the signs are there with woo with automatic for agencies their new sort of initiative there's a lot of that stuff uh definitely happening out there I think and and like Courtney said like they're going to be taking a lot more responsibility as a platform to uh you know to have to provide accessible and uh Secure Solutions um and that's not something that they can just kind of kick down the road you know inevitably if you're just in the crowd watching and you have your prediction go ahead and throw it in chat we'll talk about it uh towards the end or in the middle of this conversation I'm going to go to my next predition prediction because it's my show I don't need to spin the wheel to get to myself uh number four in the blog post at the wp minute is uh automatic cuts the product fat this is one that uh Brian thinks I am too wishful thinking uh and does not think it's going to happen but if we just look at the portfolio of products that automatic has stuff that I don't even remember uh stuff that I I don't even know probably exists but if we just look at the ones that are kind of more well-known simple note long reads Tumblr cloud up beeper pocketcast day one uh as I mentioned in this post that that list does go on uh there's their stats app right which is in VIP and I assume is treated with uh like a product I I just think that a lot of the stuff that we've we've seen happen in 2024 uh as we've seen from leadership or from Matt just far too much stuff going on at automatic uh they need to cut the fat in order to double down on WordPress uh the sort of Mantra these days is hey automatics here to defend WordPress we saw that with Mary hubard speech uh we've heard that through uh a lot of automatici that have supported Matt uh Matt's recent Mission here towards the end of 2024 and if automatic is the place that is allegedly the only ones really defending WordPress allegedly then um down on making WordPress better get rid of this other stuff what are we doing with Tumblr um or what are you doing with Tumblr what are you doing with messaging apps um I get the idea of it but man I've seen it time and time again where too many products get too uh or too many product companies Start Spreading themselves too thin it's the kiss of death for products I think Matt knows that I think that's part of the stress factor here and in 2025 we'll see um him cut the fat at automatic uh to double Dam down on WordPress kick it to you first Brian since you think I'm wishful thinking um your thoughts um I think a recent interview Matt said that he was done with big Acquisitions that he has the the domains where he thinks open source is most important messaging uh the web uh open vers and content and uh you know some other stuff podcasting and stuff um so I I think maybe we'll see a Slowdown and I think that messaging push was really a lot because those were some big expensive companies you know for sure um but I just do not see automatics culture as a company being uh less is more and you know it's such a decentralized company it's such a you know there's so many different ways and and look at like you you know playground is the great example of like letting people just explore crazy creative Avenues and finding weird new things that they wouldn't have found otherwise so there's like a benefit to that like lack of focus a little bit um and that freedom that a lot of the people there have but uh I don't see it would be a huge cultural shift for them to say wow we're gonna actually streamline and focus our attention on one you know product or user so I just don't see it happening Brandon do you agree with Brian this time I think I probably do uh I think that we saw we saw the acquisition of the what is it WP a I guess the you know AI a agency and they brought in their whole team there and I would expect that we see something more you know on that end of the spectrum but I mean I I would like again it's one of those things like is it what we want to happen or what will happen um and that's where I'm I'm stuck between a rock and hard place I guess Mark um I think from my perspective over the last you know whatever it's been five months since we were on Ground Zero the like it's the the the pers the common perspective that I see maybe it's just like the loudest is that people have left automatic obviously because they don't agree with the culture a lot of people don't agree with kind of like what's going on there even even if they're still in the community and haven't left so those things the the change the change in literal physical situation there where maybe there's just less less Workforce and stuff and they're trying to rehire and stuff like that um just throughout the business I'm not exactly sure because it's an apparatus how it all works but that if we take that information we apply to this scenario right here and then just also extrapolate on like kind of like what Matt said and kind of how he is and stuff I think that there's a low chance of this actually happening like them maybe they won't acquire more but I don't think they're going to cut fat unless they need like some sort of cash or like they need to offload for any sort of reason to pay any sort of bills or anything like that or just to to even fund more of the stuff that they're trying to do to make word press better I don't I feel like um I mean this may be a hot take I feel like from everything that I've heard not even a lot of I feel like it's been like everything's been about WordPress over this last time and I'm not talking specifically about I don't want to get in specifically to like the drama stuff but I feel like everything has been about WordPress but it's been more about Open Source and when we talk about the portfolio it sounds like that is more of the thing so I'm I'm just saying like I don't think the goal is WordPress I think the goal is open source and if you cut some of the fat that is related to open source I don't think that that's in line with Matt and whoever you know automatic in general is kind of you know wanting to go like I feel like they would literally feel like they're sacrificing open- Source stuff or not protecting open source if they got rid of like other stuff that is open source adjacent not just web related so um that's that's kind of where I'm at with that one Courtney before we spin the wheel any closing thoughts I'm still a big question mark about tumblr's value prop the organization knowing that it is a loss leader significantly um I think that that puts more heat on everything else the other other parts of automatic to be that much more profitable um to sustain that year-over-year Tumblr is not a money maker for them um it'll be interesting to see how that shakes up basically yeah I think at the end of the day my my closing thoughts on this uh is I I think that money is available to automatic uh and they need to continue uh growing they probably still need to get outside investment and um I think they're not going to be able to do it unless they unless their investors or potential investors see them uh really focusing on their uh core value let's spin that wheel for the next prediction uh you can't hear the sound but it's making funny you know fun little clicking sounds and looks like it's Courtney Courtney you're up your prediction contributions are shifting we already know that that is true um right before the the break uh I am a co-founder of the wp Community Collective and we had announced um a new structure essentially it means stuff for the IRS but uh in the past we weren't able to collectively fundraise and put money into the hands of people that write code for open source because that's a no no under the type of method that we were organized under although that other method did allow us some really cool flexibility with like we were able to fund all table leads at word Camp us that were not otherwise employed um that was a partnership between my GoDaddy hat and my wpcc hat together those that were not work expensing being being on a trip to Work Camp us got funded to be there for that day a small portion of their probably overall expenses still it was something but as I look into the year ahead um maybe with a little Insider info that I have I think that we'll see both the community rally for funding contributors differently than it has before as well as corporate organizations also doing so um and filling in some of these areas of the project that we know just need a lot more reinforcement to continue diversifying what the contributor base looks like I think though that uh you'll see kind of the same the same impact of that is that those that are not funded and something I want to be very mindful of right now we have a lot of folks that um have stepped back from contributing for various reasons and I don't want this to touch into the drama anymore than it must to sort of address the fact that I do think that um it's a struggle for the North Americans and the Europeans especially that are contributing that want to contribute but are backing away due to the drama I think that um we'll see some more contributions pick up in other parts of the world as a result because the people will always step forward to take care of the things that they're passionate about doing sometimes because they want to be funded and sometimes just because they are so for instance right now we're seeing that um in Asia parts of Asia we're seeing a lot more growth of contributors especially in India Pakistan um a few nations in that area so we're seeing people step up more which is great we need to continue addressing the reasons why though that some people have had to step away uh it's totally fine I stepped away for a number of years for family stuff and that was great and I came back when it felt like it was right for myself right not not right for this that or the other person but as an unsponsored contributor I took a chunk of time away to do what I needed to do in life um I think that we'll see just a a slight plug hopefully it's okay on the wpcc I think that we'll see a lot more activity in our head as we're heading into year number three of being an organization we just passed our second anniversary of being an organization so this year ahead is technically our third year as operating and uh I think that there's a lot of community growth that will happen there I think that that relates to pockets of communities um as well that was in your prediction post yeah one of the things I predicted again you can go to the original blog post to see the rest of it is community becomes communities where it's where now we're looking at these camps of PE of of um contributors or people who are just still interested in WordPress but they're just like you know what I don't need to go into the formalities of make of Meetup of word Camp uh we can talk about this stuff outside of those boundaries and I want to I want to POS this to the group based on um coury's predictions of contributions um changing uh or maybe even evolving well I mean bus don't always have to be writing code right it doesn't have to be something where it's where you're actually deploying code towards uh WordPress um let me go to brandan First brandan your thoughts on ways folks can cont still contribute to WordPress but I mean I don't want to put words in your mouth so you you can tell me how you think you want to contribute to Wordpress I'll just quickly say is I think people will say you know what that WordPress thing is over there I still like it I'm going to contribute by educating people and showing people how to use this thing and I'm not going to fall into the formalities or the politics of this game anymore that's my particular stance I think people are going to contribute in those ways uh but Brennon your thoughts on folks contributing to Wordpress in 2025 yeah it's it's like you're reading my mind because that's also that's basically what I do I'm not um you know a developer traditionally I guess by any stretch and so I'm not going in the code but I'm contributing in other ways and you know at least I feel like I feel like I am in terms of educating on boarding people going to meetups uh talking with people helping address their concerns with WordPress I think those are are super important contributions because most people are not at that coding level at all and are not building you know complicated cicd development sites for clients and so I think we'll see that you know it's it's already been the case and that's why like you know to me it's like wait hasn't this already been the case with like fractured communities and less of a top- down approach that that's sort of been my impression and experience in this already so I think that that definitely will track going forward Brian I mean I think the the project itself I think it's pretty clear that automatic is consolidating some power and making some choices putting people in charge of things like the YouTube and the marketing putting people in charge of um releases and things like that I think that's probably honestly I'd probably say like not the wor wor thing in the world to see them take a firmer hand um as long as there's a direction laid out that's that's fine um I you know are people going to think about well why do I need to make it a word Camp when I can just make a private event um I think that's going to happen a lot more so I think you are going to see a lot of that I think our people are going to say you know do I need to distribute my theme and plug-in through. org when I can just do it myself uh you know what's the value trade-off there so we're going to see a lot more of that happening um so that's what happens when you squeeze something so tight you know sometimes you do lose some things through your fingers and so we are seeing that a little bit but um it's also kind of a natural thing that's going to happen because uh WordPress core itself is struggling to Define its actual value proposition in the world of like low code and AI it's really struggling to say why I would use WordPress for things nowadays that I don't really need to anymore say like an LMS or say like a automation or anything like that so um it really does need to kind of like Define that because people aren't going to contribute if they don't really like have it you know providing value for them as well um so yeah I think we are going to see like you said a little fracturing of the community and maybe that's fine and maybe we'll learn more from it and Mark somebody like yourself who over the last over 2024 has learned um I guess what it's like to contribute or at least the different factors of contributing to Wordpress has uh I'm sure this whole experience of 2024 has certainly changed you but I'm curious of your thoughts on like how you now perceive um and I'll even take a step back like I remember when we first started chatting it was a lot about like people are going to contribute to this thing and not get paid like that still doesn't make sense to me that was early 2024 um just curious of like how you maybe have um have maybe a different view on contributing to Wordpress these days yeah I mean it's been quite a journey uh I don't I mean the whole I feel like we we're still having a semantic battle battle over what the word contribute means and what a contributor is um you know you know I look at myself I Look At You know guys like you know Brendan so many other of us that are making YouTube content educating masses and like literally telling people to use WordPress and or like showing people how to do things they would never know how to do and they might like fall off and go somewhere else for instance I feel like that's some level of a contribution I just don't ever have I've never really gotten the vibe that that's a true contribution from you know actual automatic or Matt or whoever you want to sign to like the the person that says that so that's just one thing to me is like I feel like we could have these you know kind of like segmented out communities and we could all be contributing but is that like a true contribution I'm not saying that's right or wrong I'm just saying that that's that's the way that I think I kind of like want to have an objective truth to that to some degree and I'm not sure if we I don't think we have that I don't know if we're going to get that I actually think it's probably going to go we might start getting an objective truth but I I don't know I actually I'm kind of blackpilled on that I think it's going to be more like less like if you want to contribute and I'm I'm out of my depth a little bit here so I defer to Brian Courtney I've literally been on one contribution thing as CU I was uh like jagging Matt in the comments of of the thing that he told Brian to do so like I I don't know like what that actually manifests into from a contribution standpoint moving forward is it are we going to see scenarios where like even if you have people that are contributing and want to contribute that they're still not able to get things through because they don't align with with what the the you know automatic ones do I'm not even pain that as a Terri picture because if that's the way it go that's way it goes we have we kind have to adapt at some level of Mercy to some of the things but but that's I kind of just see that you know to Brian's point about consolidating power I see it kind of that would be my prediction in this case like that that's kind of where I see it going so I don't know so uh there has long been a very hard delineation like what is contributing is just writing blog posts and newsletters and podcasts and all of these things and at one point there was a um a really good map that someone had had put up on I think it was like a make updates post um about the ecosystem and that within the ecosystem there are the extenders and the extenders are those that are using the software maybe not contributing directly to the software so with the software by that I mean it could be the translation team there is an official team in the project that does translation work and for those of us that are I think everyone here is English first as our primary language but more of Wordpress is used in not English than is used in English so that team is very important um and people shouldn't have to know English to learn WordPress is is a Str strong held belief that I have um but there are other teams as well and so there are lots of ways to contribute that are not code and I am a big advocate of uh when you start getting that itch uh to say why does this thing do that well go look up and log an issue or a ticket or see if someone else already has done that or um you know if you feel like uh I could help just a little bit do a thing find the team that needs that little thing that you want to help get done for the purpose of the project that is not the only part of what it means and so there was an article pardon I am forgetting the name of the individual that owns uh y awp who as the website I forget his his proper first name but I've seen him around a post status in a few other places um he talks about the the idea of free writers and the idea of tending the commons and the fallacies of these arguments basically saying that um it's since been discovered that having an abundance of users having unlimited seats on the bus is actually a good thing because it is minimal cost to continue redistributing the open source that is WordPress and the more people that are using it the more you find the things where people have the itch that want to improve the thing now that does not mean only in the context of the project itself right so many of our word camps began before the foundation and Work Camp Central were a thing I believe Foundation I might be mistaken about but Work Camp Central the place that officiates what are approved meetups and approved word camps we were having word camps before that was a thing and I was at them uh so I think that we'll see some more of that type of activity happen and I do believe that that is contribution although it may be Niche contribution and there might be people profiting specifically because they are doing a conference that is not at minimum cost right they're they're charging what business conferences are worth and I think that that's going to be still very viable and valuable information the audience of those is not necessarily the same audience as who shows up at a word camp where it's everything for everybody um so I think that we'll see some more of that Niche breakdown and I do still find that that is part of contribution on does that count as contribution if you're looking at am I contributing enough to the project right like if you're a business dependent on the project well maybe maybe a again I I want to not mention wpcc but I love one of the people that contributes to wpcc she pays what the equivalent of a premium license for an agency she gives that money to wpcc uh did so the first time when we launched the accessibility Fellowship because her business rides upon that and so she gave something that was still a decent amount of money but wasn't going to break the bank for her business as a give forward I can't do the labor but you can find people that can and that are specialized and compensate them for that work and I think that that was just beautiful we're making good time but we're going to go back to the wheel to spin it for for the last two contestants cuz I think that my prediction might align with uh you know one of my predictions so I think either whichever wherever this coin lands I think it's going to be touched upon my last one here so let's go ahead and spin it and see who we get the it looks like a homemade CD oh my oh it's Mark samansky your guys go if he wants what he put pictures this let's go Marky I mean mark 2025 bro I got too many predictions I don't know what to say here um I mean I'll try and just so everybody knows we're going to do a rapid fire of everyone's predictions we're going to go down the line because I know everybody has a lot of thoughts and I told everybody prepare three to four uh but Mark go ahead your your prediction and we'll we'll break it down I don't know I I I kind I'm gonna blend two here because I just there that's all I think about I it I wrote literally AI or die that's literally what I wrote and I and I think it's because I am so so blackpilled on the idea of just web design at this point because everything is so becoming so easy but that easy isn't the right word but fast quick obviously Matt has had his documented stint now in AI land after saying AI is no no no no no no and then then he codes for in his basement for like you know 10 days with AI and he's like this is amazing I could build anything uh but he saw that obviously it's not perfect like you can't just like spin up Amazon on AI but what I'm saying is it's getting so better so fast so much better so fast and I think that as a as a literal person in this industry like a web designer with an agency like kind of like doing other stuff now as well like I'm just seeing and I'm taking it all in and I'm like there is no way that I would build a web design just a web design agency right now like I wouldn't start one because there's too many other things that are moving too fast and and it's not that it's not actually that you can't build websites right now it's not that you shouldn't be building a WordPress it's not that you shouldn't be just building websites it's the fact that I think there's so many people out there that need websites or want websites and they're seeing just like the tip of the iceberg just like the sexy information about what Claude can do what chat GPT can do and all these things and they watch one video about how to build a website with AI and two seconds for free and they're like why wouldn't why why I feel like we're at an all-time high with the level of commoditization that this that this industry has come come to at the same time though we have what Courtney said a couple you know a couple minutes ago about like accessibility being a really big thing and kind of being downplayed in certain areas Up played in other areas and like we have real concerns that professionals people that actually not even professionals people that care and are in this space need to understand and and do like as a service for clients so I just think to summarize there if WordPress doesn't and WPI WP the acquisition that should help but if if WordPress itself doesn't realize that that's the case and integrate more of that to compete with these other tools that are making it so easy for for everyone I think there's going to be some issues there and just in broader terms though I really I I think that the idea of open source needs to be some we need to somehow in that same vein bring that back to the full and be like that is the thing that you absolutely want again I mentioned off camera I was on Squarespace Enterprise call this morning way more impressive than I thought it was going to be not it's not WordPress but it's way more impressive than I thought it was going to be and it's just like people just see that sort of stuff they see the AI they see the buzz stuff and we don't have it's almost like we don't have enough time to educate them cuz I like to talk and I take too long to explain what I'm saying so like that's I don't know that's just that's my personal perspective on that I really think it needs to happen and moving in 2025 just going to keep getting the snowball is already rolling we're halfway down the hill yeah I I mean that was going to be my prediction that's sort of my top one right is is some kind of AI story that's going to be told in 2025 I think we saw you know we had the acquisition from James leage to bring that into into core maybe it's going to be a canonical Plugin or something like that I don't know but the particularly the open source aspect of it because there everyone's familiar with chat GPT a lot of people are familiar with claw those are not open source models there are some really great open- source llms out there like olama uh China just released deep seek three uh couple weeks ago and it's tremendously better I would think than these closed Source models they're cheaper to train they're cheaper usage for the end user and and they're pretty darn good so I would like to see some kind of partnership some kind of alliance between open source WordPress and open source llms so I notic James say um James Le page say that uh it was just a quick conversation that I saw sort of scroll by on Twitter earlier today where somebody couldn't sign up for a WPI account and um I saw him go back and forth with a person saying like oh we've sort of closed down we'll be sunsetting like the traditional products that that we've been offering now that we've been acquired by automatic um all that is to say Brandon do you have a what was your initial reaction when when you heard automatic had acquired them um less you already kind of knew it was coming and what do you think they're going to build for WordPress or for automatic internally no I mean it's a good question I think uh I I was I was actually pretty happy with it I was kind of I would say soured on on AI for a couple of months and just kind of seeing people producing mediocre things with it and I think that has sort of turned a turned the page and we're going to we're going to see more and more um actually good Integrations with AI at least that again this is one of those things where is it what I want or is it what's going to happen I would like to see that happen where uh I mean for instance you can spin up an agent with AI and have it talk with your entire GitHub uh code base including subfolders and it it's it's pretty darn impressive I think and I think we're we're going to see hope hopefully that that kind of Leverage moving forward I don't know what they're build I mean that's a good question like what are they going to actually build what's that implementation gonna look like that I do not know I wish I had a better prediction for you and Brian I think I saw in Blue Sky you were playing with AI over the weekend did I get that right you build something without having to think yeah I just actually just did a blog post this morning about this about whether I think AI is going to help us in open source or whether I think there's been you know there's been a lot of promise from WordPress number one I think Matt's been clear that he doesn't really want AI in WordPress he thinks operating systems are going to handle it so it's more about getting AI getting WordPress ready for AI but we're probably not going to see private you know Integrations with closed models and stuff literally inside of core um you know also they acquired an AI person right around you know the time where you know VC money is not great and AI is where VC money is you know make what you will that um but ultimately like AI is really good at a lot of things right now but maintaining 20-year-old software um and building really good user experiences which is where where press struggles the most which is like the actual user experience of enjoying the software and writing in it um that's not something AI is really great at solving it doesn't make great user experiences um so I think there's still going to be a huge gap where we're not going to see AI suddenly turn WordPress into this amazing thing and we're not going to see you know your neighbor the plumber build their own insane app that you know makes them a bunch of money I don't think any of that stuff is going to happen um but you know it is going to lower the barrier to entry a little bit around experimentation and prototyping and stuff like that and there's definitely like wins to have in that place but I'm I'm very like bullish on AI and I think like a lot of great stuff is happening but I don't think it's going to fundamentally change the desire that people have to put up their website for their nonprofit and list their event for next week that they want everyone to come and make a donation form you know those people aren't going to be asking a chapot to do it I don't think anytime in the near future so I think if your business is spinning up small medium websites and stuff I think you're you're still going to be fine I think it's on you to leverage the AI tools and don't think you're going to lose customers that they're going to be out there leveraging these tools that are still uh extremely complicated to use because I did spend some time messing around with AI and you know rep lid and vo and all that stuff and you know it generates code but if you don't know how code Works uh it's it's not it's not generating great code and you run into a lot of bugs and a lot of why isn't this doing the thing I'm asking it to and stuff so I think we still have some time there um I'm not I've got an app to sell you Brian because I know nothing about code and let me tell you something I built something really nice and it can be yours on flipper real soon uh Courtney let's let's wrap up your thoughts on on AI then we'll go into the lightning round again folks who are listening if you have your predictions go ahead and drop them in the chat we'll talk about them I think AI can help Drive uh the translation areas especially of what we're writing I think it could also help us with synthesizing so devs will write their inline comments about what the code it is that they're writing does I think that we can leverage AI to do that synthesizing work that it is actually WR strong at doing it's not great at being creative we know that it's very bad being creative but it's great at synthesizing things and so I look at it from the lens of technical documentation writing and I would love to see it get better at I don't know if someone wants to help me build this I need to contact Jeff Matson he had a tool that just did an amazing work of taking screenshots when you need update for instance you worked at at pagely previously Matt as well maton had something that would uh scan all of the areas that needed screenshot revisions and quick change it and that tooling coupled with AI could be amazing at getting the content out faster at having documentation ready that's not to say that I would trust it completely you would still want some humans to test what it puts together but I think that that area of diving deeper into having AI synthesize and present the information it's not going to have as many typos it's it's going to find our missing semicolons that type of work for sure um I think that we'll just see an impact more in those areas and in translation services than we will necessarily in creativity or graphic design it's not good with that no no it's not but it is getting better in my prediction in in the blog post I do feel like AI is coming for everything including um of course WordPress but including your favorite to-do app uh think we will see a world where anyone can spin up uh their own uh sort of spoke app uh like it Todo app that just tailored exactly for them uh probably a few years off but I wouldn't even say it's 10 years off I would say it's it's coming uh rather quickly back to the wheel of Destiny now we're going to go through the lightning round quickly spin this wheel and see who's next uh for their prediction my predictions are all done but next up right back to court Courtney got another predic am I predicting another prediction um yeah so in addition to contributions and things I think that we'll see a big rise not just in um unofficial WordPress events but attendance by WordPress people at events that are not WordPress focused up first for me personally will be cloudfest looking forward to that one and that one's not exclusively WordPress the one in Europe is a much bigger event than the one in North America um I think mingling between different open source projects is part of that too like for me events and open source go hand inand the events I go to are about open source um but I think that experimenting and learning beyond our bubble is on the horizon spin it again if it lands on you Courtney you're gonna have have another one I'm sorry you guys this is the pressure lightning round and it's Mark sansy pass uh I would say I had one written here it's it's WordPress adjacent is I think because of everything that's going on you know a lot of us here like we're going to see more people very hungry for education and content around these types of things like even more so than before because I I I could totally see a scenario where you're somebody that watches a lot of content you're not producing I'm already seeing a lot of people actually produce more content that weren't previously like content creators Educators so I see people getting into it but the people that are On The Fringe the people that watch they have agencies or they're Freelancers and they watch some stuff I think that they are probably like oh man what does Matt think or Brian think about like the whole thing that's going on like are they going to go oh my gosh Matt just started a CMS Minute Podcast what like should I be concerned about like where I need to go and stuff like that I'm not trying to fearmonger I'm just saying like I think that the hunger for the for the education on not just WordPress but the the surrounding things I do think that's going to be a huge benefit because we're going to have the opportunity to talk to these people about the different things that we're exploring and then they're going to have the opportunity to explore with us as well so I do think that that it's going to it's going to be in WordPress but it's also going to be another thing so I think that that's going to be a really big uh a really big thing in 2025 and moving forward we're already spinning the wheel before Mark's even done talking we're going to land on Brandon yeah um well I've got a couple things written down here one of them was that we're g to see WP core subsume popular and important plugins like ACF oh sorry that's my 2024 prediction um ah interesting so that came true uh I I would imagine that we see I mean I'm kind of comparing this also to the the acquisition for of the AI agency team and I I I could see that happening more I think that open source benefits greatly from having third party tool creators and and people working in that sphere and I think that that's kind of what you what the trade-off is is like when you build an open source there's a a possibility that that gets brought into the core and or as a canonical plugin and I think that is overall a good thing that might be an unpopular opinion but I think that's kind of how this gets built up uh through people's dedication to improving it maybe even outside of automatic so that's my prediction Brian we'll give it to you without having to spin the wheel what do you got for us friend my last prediction is uh I think this is a really kind of dumb metric that we measure uh market share but I'm going to make a market share prediction um you know I just think it's not it's not the most helpful metric but it is what tends to get talked about and I think that we are not going to I don't think we're going to ever see that growth again in market share I think we've hit like stasis and like a healthy number um and I think we're going to stay I my prediction is that we will never hit that 45 I think because I think we're like 43 44 I think we're going to stay around there through 2025 and I think that's going to be something that's going to shift how we think about the industry and how we think about uh you know bringing in you know money and investors and stuff knowing that that number is not going to keep climbing yeah uh the end of my blog post I also put that now is the best time I think like we're all in a general con since that like I don't think 2025 will be the year where like oh my God what do we do now state of Wordpress um but I also have mentioned that uh it's also a great time to invest uh in WordPress I mean I think when you see a lot of people exit um something it's um you know it's time for taking a little bit of risk and sticking around and reinvesting is uh is a smart move I think for anyone especially content and educ in education as quickly as we can get the stuff from AI I think that the human side of it the human side of everything is going to be um a premium it's going to be something that people are actually going to want uh that people are going to want can you imagine Mark zansky reading a blog post let's let that sink in for a second I can't that is actually written by a human right like people are going to want that and desire that uh you know five years from now people are going to be like I'm sick and tired of this AI speaking to me or writing for me give it to me from a human and I think that um investing in WordPress sticking around educating creating content is a smart thing to do and obviously giving back to the project however you see fit or however you see your own efforts making WordPress Thrive um it works for me you know it works for me uh even if you want to stay aside uh from the uh the politics and the and everything else to to get involved with WordPress so I concur let's go one more round of Kudos um starting from my right Mark zansky working folks find you to say thanks yeah appreciate having Matt was great chatting with all you guys uh mj. bio check take a look at all my links are there and everything like that you can find me on YouTube always trying to learn try and share everything I do Bron oconnell oh I think you're muted Brendon yeah uh sorry uh Brendon oconnell here I you know you can find me at Brendan dell.com um I got a small YouTube channel going to be doing lots of automation stuff in this year I think not going to abandon WordPress but leverage WordPress and check out other avenues so stick around man with another small YouTube channel Brian kartz oh that hurt um brian.com uh look deeply you can find my tiny YouTube channel there I didn't know we were in a YouTube channel measuring contest but thank you um and uh webmasters FM for some fun interviews Courtney Robertson I also have a YouTube channel you can find all of my socials at Courtney R.D Courtney Robertson and you can find me often in the GoDaddy booth at WordPress events you could find me um hopefully near godaddy's headquarters in April as well if anyone's heading to presc it's the wp minute signing off today the wp minute.com subscribe thanks everybody for watching don't forget to share this episode with others uh on social media and if you're interested in other platforms um other content Management Systems CMS minute.com is another uh Venture that'll be kicking off this year it's going to be a limited series uh podcast presented by the fine folks at ghost hosted on ghost used to be on ghost it was was a fantastic experience but I needed gravity forms to get some stuff done uh but CMS minute will be hosted on ghost the podcast the newsletter the blog check it out if you want to learn CMS platforms thanks for hanging out everybody see you in the next one, 2025 WordPress Predictions, WP Minute Tutorials, 01jh37718kcfewpp5ah4qbmk6t.