Bethel Staff Confronted Live on Sickness Teachings...  Okay, so I talked about the Bethl situation and how uh Jen Johnson, Bill Johnson's daughter-in-law, went on the worship ministry training podcast, which by the way, shout out to Alex, my uh Armenian brother, my Armenian brother in Christ. Did a great job with this conversation. And there's one part that I wanted to point out that Alex rightfully so, challenges uh Jen Johnson on some of the theology. And I found her response still lacking of a theology that's been outsourced from Bethl for a while. I would say this is one of the more dangerous aspects of their theology. And so, yeah, let's just jump into it. And this is the idea of suffering, uh, God healing, why does God allow suffering? How does it all work together? So, check it out. Hey, this might be the most important thing I say in this video. I think a lot of us have been in seasons where we're trying to figure out what am I actually supposed to be doing with my life? Like, we want to be faithful. We want to build something meaningful, but it's hard to get real clarity on our purpose, our direction, and what God's actually calling us to do. And if you've been struggling to figure that out, to get clarity, that's exactly why I'm doing the Godly ambition tour. We're kicking this off April 10th in Chicago, then April 12th in Pittsburgh. And these nights are designed to help you get clarity and actually move forward. This is what my book, Godly Ambition, is all about. It's currently a USA Today bestseller and I wanted to bring these ideas into a live experience. I'm doing a full keynote breaking this down and going deep. We've got new music, a live podcast. I'm taking your questions in the room and I've got a few things up my sleeve for the night, too. So, yeah, I love seeing you guys in the comments. I love the chat. But this is one of those things where being in the room is is just going to hit different. So, tickets start at $35. And if you want to go even deeper, we've got premium tickets that include a private Q&A before the show. After Chicago and Pittsburgh, we'll also be hitting DC, New York, LA, Atlanta, and Tampa. So, we might be coming to a city closer to you. But don't wait. Go to rooluck ad.com or hit the pin comment and get your tickets now. I'll see you in a room. >> The second theological question stems out of the idea that it's God's will to heal everyone always. And if we're not healed, it's because of our lack of faith. >> Okay, so that is a very specific question. It's God's will to heal everyone always. This is Bethl teaching. And if we're not healed, it's because of us. >> And if we're not healed, it's because of our lack of faith. >> Okay. Now, that second part, I don't I don't know if Bethl has so directly taught that. If we're not healed, it's because of our lack of faith. But the first part is definitely true. Bill Johnson has said stuff like, "I cannot create a theology that allows for sickness and and and that sort of stuff." Right? So, God's will to heal everybody in all ways. Is that biblical? Right? Now, listen to Jin Johnson's answer here. >> Is that still Bethl's official stance? And then also related to that, did that view shift at all in light of the two tragedies that Bethl has walked through as a community? namely Olive, baby Olive, passed away and was not raised from the dead. And then sadly, Benny, Bill's wife, your mother-in-law, also passed away recently from cancer. So, did those two tragedies shift Bethl's theological viewpoint on that at all? And if so, in what way? >> So, the Olive situation, super tragic. Little girl dies, they pray for her healing, they pray for resurrection, and the way the church maneuvers is as if she's going to be resurrected and be healed. Uh, some may say that that they made a kind of a spectacle of it. Others may say, well, hey, what were they supposed to do? pray pray for the baby to get healed and the baby to get healed and and maybe God would do a miracle and they kept praying for a miracle and tragically it didn't happen. Uh super sad situation. Now uh Bill's wife passing of cancer if that's not a a point of hey maybe this sort of theology that you keep pushing isn't true. I don't know what is like I I I could almost be sympathetic to the olive thing though I think that's also very unhelpful. But if I if you know the first lady tragically dies of cancer, um maybe God doesn't want to heal everybody always, maybe you should adjust your theology, okay, to be more in line with how do we gather theology? We gather it from scripture. We gather it from church history. We gather it from experience. We gather it from using our brain and reason. This is how we come to matters of truth. matters of what is what is biblical and what is not instead of just saying our feels and what feels good and whatever stream of Christianity we come from. So the so that's the question here not the question is not does God heal. The question isn't even does God want to heal. The question is do you guys still stand by the idea that God wants to heal everybody always? >> Um no I don't think that it shifted it at all. We >> I don't think it shifted it at all. Therefore, Bethl still believes that God wants to heal everybody always. And that second part, which again, I didn't even know was official, and I don't know if she's intentionally knowing that she's co-signing this. If he doesn't, it's because of your lack of faith. This is what Bethl believes. This is the official teaching. God wants to heal everybody always. And when he doesn't, it's because of your lack of faith. So, again, I'm not sure if she wasn't listening, but this is poison, friends. This is poison. There are examples in the scriptures of people suffering. There are examples that we could look at in our own lives of people not being healed who had amazing faith. I would like to believe that they had amazing faith in in in believing that uh baby Olive was going to get resurrected that I would assume that Belle's wife had incredible faith that she was going to get healed of cancer. So, if if this is the part that like again, I'm not sure if she's paying attention to this, but like if this is what they really teach, this is one of those things that may need to be amended and consider that you're exporting this culture. You're exporting this theology. >> Believe that God heals. And that's what the Bible says. And >> okay, I believe that God heals. I believe God heals, too. I've seen God heal. I've seen God do miracles. But that wasn't the question. So, again, I'm not sure if she's not being intentional. she's not listening or uh if she just wanted to spat out whatever she's been taught. But I think this is a dangerous teaching. >> So when something doesn't happen, we don't necessarily try to look inward to our own self of why it didn't happen, but more importantly to stay anchored and grounded in who God is and who he says he is and what he does, and that is that he heals. And so it's very difficult when something doesn't happen that you were praying for and hoped for. And we've all lived that in our faith. But it doesn't change our belief system. It doesn't change that we still believe that God heals. Why? See, this is called moving the goalpost. Either she wasn't listening or she interpreted it and moved the goalpost to we believe God heals. Well, most Christians believe God heals. Maybe the cessationist, some sensationist, but even the cessationist still pray for miracles. They still believe God can do miracles, just not with the gifts, right? I'm being very charitable to my cessationist brother and sisters on this. So, most people believe that God can heal. That wasn't the question. The question is, does God heal everyone always? And if he doesn't, is that because of our lack of faith? >> Why didn't someone get healed? I don't know. But I'm going to pray for the next person that needs a miracle. I'm going to pray for my son when he has a cold. I have a little bit of a cold today. You know, me too. >> And you know, so I I just think it doesn't change the foundation of our faith when something doesn't go to plan. We just have to surrender it. There's a lot of mystery in this walk of ours, and there's a lot of surrender that's involved of going, "God, I don't understand this, but I know who you are. I'm going to stay anchored and grounded to that. Pray for the sick. Cast out demons. I'm going to stay connected to what your word says even though I might not have seen something happen that I prayed for. So that's just kind of where we keep our focus. >> And when God says no, when tragically people do fast, wouldn't that reasonably if we're using our brains to say, well, perhaps God doesn't heal everyone always. Perhaps in the mystery somehow God uses all things for good. Even the suffering, even the times people tragically died. Jesus said, "In this life, you will have trouble." Romans talks about all things work for good for those who love God and are called according to his purpose. Perhaps your theology is wrong and God can heal. And I will even grant that maybe God does even want to heal, but not all of the time. Why? I would agree with her. This is a mystery. We don't know why he doesn't heal all the time. We don't know how it all works together. And so again, I'm not sure if she was paying attention to this, but this confirms, in my opinion, one of the most dangerous teachings that we've had documented on Bethl for a while because what this does is when someone doesn't get their healing, that's their fault. It's their lack of faith. Again, I'm not sure if she was listening to the question cuz her answer is fine except she affirmed the the dangerous heretical teaching that he said, which is, "Does God heal everyone always? And if he doesn't, is it because of our lack of faith?" >> Yeah. Uh, lovingly, can I share just a few thoughts about what you just shared? So, it's not an argument. I just want to say >> Alex, you did so good. You could have said, "Hey, I'm going to push back on this. This is an argument." And he goes on to, in my opinion, share some common sense aspects of this >> this because as you were talking, I was thinking about two things. One was when Paul was asking, and this isn't necessarily a healing per se, but when Paul was asking God, take away this thorn in my side that you've afflicted me with, whatever it was, and God said, "No, my grace is sufficient for you." And then the other story in the scriptures >> and and and there's a video of Bill Johnson saying, "I cannot create a theology that allows for sickness." And connects Paul's idea that if Paul really was sick and Paul really was saying, "God, take this away from me." And God didn't. And then connected it to the passage in Galatians where Paul goes, "Hey, if someone comes back preaching a different gospel than you, uh, even an angel, they're not preaching the true gospel." >> I refuse to create a theology that allows for sickness. The Apostle Paul gives a warning in Galatians and he says this. He says, "If I or even an angel, comes to you and preaches to you a different gospel, you're to reject it." That's amazing. All right. What gospel is it? It's the gospel of Jesus. It's the gospel of the kingdom. Paul refers to his thorn in the flesh, which has been interpreted by many as disease allowed or brought on by God. That's a different gospel. >> Jesus didn't model it and he didn't teach it. >> Uh we we've pointed out before that is dangerous. He's alluding that either Paul wasn't sick, which we don't know if he was or not, or that if he was sick, he was preaching a false gospel because God didn't heal him. Who? So, this is a good push back from Alex >> about the man born blind. And the disciples said, "Why was this man born blind? Was it his parents sin or his?" And Jesus said, "Neither, but for the glory of God that he be healed." Now, in that case, that man was healed. But sometimes I wonder, doesn't God allow or leave certain afflictions in our lives in order to grow some sort of spiritual fruit? What how would you respond to that? >> I mean, that's pretty evident if you read the book of Job, you know. >> So, again, I don't understand. >> So, so then the you weren't listening to the question. So, she agrees and grants that yet that's not what they seem to teach because she says they still hold to that >> why things happen. I don't understand. But but again, I stay connected to who God is and that even though I don't understand a lot of how he works, I know who he is, that he's always good, that he's always faithful, that he's always so I stay connected to the always of God and really try to keep that my focus because if I try to figure everything out with my natural mind, it's impossible and can make you feel crazy, you know, but I think again it comes back to surrender and it comes back to trust and knowing who he is. Though you slay me, I will trust you. You know, that whole mentality of no matter what happens, good, bad, or ugly, I know who you are and I'm going to stay anchored in that. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think last thought about this for me at least is that God allows evil or harm in our lives often he's using those hardest moments in my life at least for the greatest good in the long run spiritually and just yeah in whatever he's trying to do in my life. So what we might say is bad from the outside is actually rooted in God's goodness and his kindness towards us. Right. >> Absolutely. And I think when we get to heaven, we're just going to have such an epiphany of how and why. And oh my gosh, if I had only known this and you were connecting it to that and that was this trial was that and we truly will see his goodness in how he's connected all the dots when we're in heaven. But until then, it's a bunch of surrender and a bunch of God though you, I will, you know, you watch that all through the Psalms. You watch David like but God, but you, you know, and so I think that's a role model for us that no matter what happens, I know you and I know you're good and I know just staying anchored in that truth. So now let's go back and let's listen to the question again and you guys tell me if she understood the question or if she answered the question at all. >> The second theological question stems out of the idea that it's God's will to heal everyone always and if we're not healed it's because of our lack of faith. >> Sounds like she answered that incorrectly based on her statement or she thinks that those two ideas are compatible and they're not. either God doesn't heal everybody always or he does and that the second half of it if he doesn't then it's because you didn't have enough faith. Again, listen to her response here. So, listen to the question one more time. >> God's will to heal everyone always. And if we're not healed, it's because of our lack of faith. >> No, I don't think that it shifted it at all. >> No, I don't think that it shifted at all. So, I I I listen, I don't know what to do with that. The the the second her answer was fine. Yes, God uses bad things, evil, suffering, sickness for his good, for his glory. We still believe God is good even when we're going through adversity. Jesus said in this life you'll be troubled. So her answer was fine, but she said, "No, that doesn't shift it at all." So I don't I don't know if Bethl has an official stance and her stance is different or what, but I think these sorts of things absolutely need clarity. And I think that's that's that's a false teaching. God wants to heal everybody always. And if he doesn't, it's because you don't have enough faith. Again, I I didn't know that was their the second half of that was the official teaching, but it I'd say we're really entering some murky land with some of this stuff., Bethel Staff Confronted Live on Sickness Teachings..., YouTube, 01knvnq7m3k3vg2nz9z4mq26z7.