CHAOSS Data Science WG, Jan 13, 2026  🔗 **Source:** [CHAOSS Data Science WG, Jan 13, 2026](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YO_aaYblV4U) Okay, welcome everyone to the chaos data science working group meeting for January 13th. As always, uh this meeting and the rest of the chaos meetings do fall under the chaos code of conduct. So, uh please do be kind to each other. Um, while we wait for Calie because these two agenda items are mostly on her side, um, let me jump to the bottom and talk about just a couple of a couple of reminders. So, we do have Chaos Con EU coming up on January 29th. This is right before Fosdom, so it's the Thursday before Fosdom weekend in Brussels. Uh there will be a live stream so you're welcome to just watch it if you're not going to be there in person but um we are looking for people to get um if they're planning to be there please go ahead and register because we need things like dietary restrictions and such. Um but it's going to be it's going to be fun. We've got some we've got some good talks. I'm not just saying that because I have one of them. Um, and we've got a whole bunch of really good breakout sessions, including one that we'll talk about uh in a few minutes because we have a data science uh breakout session at at Chaos Con. Um, the other thing that people might be interested in if you're um uh in or interested in traveling to the US right now is uh Chaos, sorry, not Chaos Con, Open Source Summit North America. So, this is a Linux Foundation event. It's being held in May in Minneapolis, Minnesota. Um, and the CFP closes on February 8th. So, the CFP closes in just a couple of weeks. So, this is just a friendly reminder that if you're interested in going to that event, um, getting a talk accepted is the way to go, uh, without paying the event fee. So, I encourage people to submit talks if you're interested in doing that. And oh, good. I vamped long enough for Calie to join. Um, hey, Callie. because the first the first thing we have on the agenda is uh planning for the chaos EU breakout session. >> Yeah. >> Um >> Kelly, if you want to just do you just want to run the meeting because I think most of the agenda items are are yours anyways. Do you want to just >> start the recording started? >> Uh I don't know. I haven't heard from from S. >> Let me let me check. I thought that they were but me >> I think K is has gotten quite busy this January but she says she will be able to join chaos meetings but >> maybe some up. >> Oh hey David I will drop the link in the chat again so that everybody has it. Oh, there's S. Perfect. >> There we go. >> Excellent timing, S. We were just uh pinging you to see if you were gonna gonna be here. Um, awesome. Cool. All right, Kelly. >> Yep. Let me just pull up >> Oh, do you want you want me to stop sharing so you can share whatever you want to share? >> Sure. >> Okay. um because this is still a little bit variable. So if we want to break this down differently, we can. Um so this is the unofficial schedule for Chaos Con. Um what I want to talk about today is this block. we can kind of think about this room as at least how I'm thinking about it is kind of the data science working group or working group room like it's this is our track um and the first hour and a half would be the prototyping um workshop by S. I wanted to check in with them to make sure that the so wanted to do the like kind of 15 minute intro for eight non and augur at the beginning as like a um a starting point so we can kind of start by talking about that first like hour and a half bit you know it's kind of sal's thing I don't think we can hear you if you're talking, S. >> Oh, can you now? >> Yeah. >> Oh, yeah. Now, now we're >> Okay. Um, yeah. So, first off, sorry for being a little bit out of touch on this. I'm like just getting off of a bunch of travel and movement, but uh yeah, so the rapid prototyping is just a very simple uh like define your goal, your team. It's very simple. So you can use it for tech or non tech. Give me about 20 minutes to explain it to people and then give us about 40 minutes to start prototyping. But really what you get out of that, it's not that anyone's going to have complete projects. It's a way of teaching people how to communicate to your project and define issues and scope. Uh so that we should be able to walk away from this. >> Just a reminder, Cali, that you're sharing your screen including your Slack. >> This is not me. I need >> Sorry. Sorry. that looked like maybe >> I'm trying to figure out what someone else >> send me the link and I can share it or Okay, that's good. >> But uh yeah, so my goal uh for them to come out of here, I want us to have new contributors providing um like issues and like not to the PR point, but that's it's teaching them how to contribute mindfully. Um, so as long as we get a good preview of which projects they can be looking at and I can point them towards possibly some good first issues, um, yeah, that should be great. But I really need like an hour max with that. We can shorten it up if you need to. >> Okay. Um, my thought process is is that um, Adrian, I was just trying to ping him because usually he's here. Um, would kind of There we go. Oh, he is here. >> I joined like seven minutes late. Sorry. >> No, I we're all just kind of hopping in. Um would right at the beginning kind of do like the augur 8 knot quick start which is really just hey clone the repository docker compose up build. Yay. Um, and then to do and then like kind of the content that you're describing. And then I was curious to see if there was a certain type of issues or things that you would think would be helpful to kind of had have ready to go on the augur 8 knot side that would be useful for people to have to do to like work with this framework at me. Oh >> yeah. I would say it's for S of Yeah. does the does the early portion sound good and what do you think would be beneficial to have from those two projects for that like kind of 40 minute like work session to make it the most like useful for everybody. >> Yeah. So I think if we can come with like three or four like good first issues and they don't necessarily have to be like prable issues. if there's something that you're looking for one or two contributors. The way that I use rapid prototyping because we're going to be in a setting where we can essentially get small volunteer teams that are going to be able to work together, but we have to project manage them for 40 minutes so that they understand what and why they want to do things, right? So, it's not about give them an issue and then tell them to complete it or hand them a PR. It's helpful to have those if we've got some really lowskilled people, but I want them to look at this, look at the issues that exist and write their own scope their own suggestions for what they want to improve and engage with. >> Um, so yeah, it's a contributor pathway. >> Okay. I'm curious to see for this framework. Do you think that something like working on a new visualization in 8 or working on a certain functionality of the application kind of fits better into this framework? >> Both of those would be fine. It's so they're not they're not going to have enough time to do development. It's not development practice, right? So the goal here is to say, "All right, here's some things that we've been looking at." And then to have a contributor come to you because uniquely we'll have maintainers present and available to answer any questions and concerns. Um and then hopefully be able to leave with uh with them being able to do work outside of that space. >> Okay, that makes sense. Um we need to have some good first issues up for all of them anyways. So I kind of I'm going to like for them people have stuff to look at. I want to make sure we have kind of both sides of it. Especially since a lot of it I just need I sl like my team needs to make the um issues for um new visualizations on 8not because just saying please make chaos visualizations is not is probably not enough guidance for new contributors to come in. And so that's what I'm kind of thinking about which kind of brings in together like different portions of chaos thinking about as like a data science track of okay let's take some of like you know the prototyping they may not get there but at least they can start to think about okay how do I take the metric models and the ways to think about analyzing um communities it's look like looking at how do we prototype and start working on a project project quickly and bringing in um maybe try to integrate visualizations into eight. Not saying not saying that they'll finish that, but maybe is that like a kind of as a starting point getting people moving and thinking about kind of the different areas of this. >> Yeah. Yeah. Um Yeah. And I'll get I'll get slides out over to y'all so it makes a lot more sense, but it is extremely simple. >> Okay. um from the like my team side. So myself and Adrian for this time block besides kind of the introduction to Adon to Augur. Is there anything specifically you need from us? >> Yeah. So, uh, once every 20 minutes, I am going to someone is going to approach you and they're going to show you either an issue, a PR, or like even a visualization on a piece of paper. You're going to have to be engaging with them for about two minutes and then they're going to walk away. >> Um, yeah. So, don't need a lot of your time. Just need you in the room. >> Okay, perfect. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, this time block seems pretty well established and we're good to move over to what we want to do. And I have a feeling that these might merge together a bit. So, kind of see of what we want to do with the hour for specifically the data science like um like meetup working group what time we've used. Um, I know in the past we've thrown around the idea of coming in with a couple of different like research projects either like ones where we're like we're defin like here's a couple of us that are definitely going to be working on this and maybe a couple of things on the side so people want to come in and work on on start something themselves. Um, I'm trying to remember the other ideas that I feel like that wasn't the only thing that we had talked about. Um, but I definitely want to leave this meeting today just deciding on what like what is the thing we want to do very high level with this hourlong block. >> Uh, were there any specific projects, Cali, that you wanted that you were thinking of that you had in mind to focus on already? Um, and so I would say let's you actually just go directly over to is my like thought process with this would be like one to two like focuses that were like going in knowing planning and like two or three here are some side options um and based off of um what we have in the working group now. Um, I don't know if the language people are going to be around because I know that there's been a lot of talk on the I don't know this one. >> Um, so if these folks are going to be here, this would be one of the things I'd be like, let's have this as the namesake. Have those people are able to sit down and work on this in person. Um I have been talking a lot about and continuously dropping the usage, adoption and popularity. Like this would like working on this with you would be like what I want to do and trying to keep on moving on on like getting this like moving and forward and talking through like okay not just from like a like how we write this up but even more of a high level like okay what is the building blocks to actually analyzing this? is the like how do we actually make a cohesive picture to analyze usage adoption and popularity. So that would probably be the one that I would want to focus on. Um but from there I think that we have a pretty good set of um of things here we can choose from. One thing that I'm gonna probably talk to somebody on my team about um the like CNCF portion of my team is starting to look at um the impact of donating a project to the CNCF. Um >> and I'm really trying to put I' I'm like trying to like because I I know what they're doing and it's like it's it's in the lens of okay Red Hat's donating these projects. What is the impact? How has that changed things? And I'm like 97 98% of that is generic. Like I know uh like that's not a specific to um Red Hat thing. And so while we're going to like as Red Hat we want to know that from the lens of our company, I think that that is something that's useful to just about everyone. And so I am I know that she is going to be like attending all of this and to have somebody bring in research who's never like been a part of this group. That's a a big ask. But I'm hoping that's something that I'm kind of in the side hoping for because I know that like there's like foundational stats is already maybe there is just like a foundational stats. we look at the financial stats and I kind of be like, "Hey, go talk to these folks and let's try to figure out how to um bring these projects together because I know we've just gone around of like surveying within the company of all the people who have donated projects within and have like a set of questions and she's starting to work on using like eight knot visualizations to look at the time shift. So maybe there's a foundational stats area of this." I think maybe like the kind of my idea for this is pretty freeformed, but I think we're already starting to get like some structure into it of hey, let's start working in person and get a good kickoff for the year of the things that we've already started to prioritize and know that we want to do when asynchronous work is kind of hard at some points to really get a solid kick forward. >> Cool. Okay. Okay. So, what I've written, I've been trying to take notes. Um, >> yes, thank you. >> So, basically, the usage practitioner guide, um, foundation stats, and maybe brainstorming, uh, how to bring what Red Hat's been working on into the into the project. >> Um, and then, uh, the the language folks that have been working on language. Did you want to reach out to them or did you want me to >> um, ask? >> Because do you know, does anybody actually know the folks that have been talking? I I'm not familiar with any of these. >> They they've been in they've been in the group. I think they're from Weren't they from the Fedora project? >> Oh, I don't know. Some of them are. I don't know if anybody's been like paying attention the last couple of days, but um there's a new contributor that's been coming in that's been like really working on this. Do you know have you seen them in the uh do you know if they're in like the Slack channel or they only on >> um been talking on the repository? >> I'll I'll reach out. >> Okay. >> They are here. >> Maybe I'll just leave maybe I'll just leave a comment on the the GitHub issue because that seems to be getting a bit of traction. >> Yeah, because I think that's like these are this is like such a good example of okay, if you have a little bit of traction, let's really let's capitalize on it. Um, another like more free form thing that I think kind of like goes and say people are coming out of the rapid prototyping like kind of section and want to continue to work on it. That's where I would like be kind of wanting to leave room for people to work on visualizations in 8 knot. Um, it really starts more in a note. I would the vast majority of them I recommend people to start in a notebook and we have starter notebooks. is actually trans this transitions well to the discussions about repel. Um but I think that's if people want to work on something that's a little bit more small scoped and that they can work on by themselves. Um working on metrics and visualizations that already been defined in chaos to be an eight knot would be something that I'd kind of want to leave. Then it kind of yeah leaves an option for if people are on that brain track to leave them there and you can answer questions and show them how to kind of go about doing that because new visualizations in 8 knot is something that I'm really hoping to push more towards this year because it's been a bit stagnant for a while. Um and it yeah it kind of brings everything together. Okay, so that gives us the usage practitioner guide, foundation stats, uh the language folks if they're going to be there, um and then eight knot visualizations. And that feels like I don't know that that feels like probably enough. If there's something that's not on on the list that someone wants to work on, we could certainly we could certainly add it on the day. >> Yeah, I think that's that makes sense because it doesn't like people want to take it somewhere different. I just don't want there. I think this fills every um crevice of how people might want to work. Um because I'm also like happy it's I'll be definitely focused on the user practitioner guide, but I'm happy to like it's easy for me to like co like switch mindsets for a second, answer a few questions about making visualizations in 8 and stuff like that. But it also makes it to where the work that I need to do for other sections just is repeating on itself which is make it create the issues on eight not for um visualizations and stuff. It's pretty simple. I'll probably just end up making issues that are just linking directly to um either metrics models or even just like saying okay create like take the visualizations and metrics from this practitioner guide and so that we can make an entire page because my hope is that we'll have a practitioner guide tab on eight knot and then you would have the metrics that are specific for each of those practitioner guides there and ready >> and that's kind that's kind of those are the kind of things that I'm thinking about going into into this next year of how we kind of bridge these these different aspects of the project together. >> Cool. Okay. So, anything else on the breakout session or do we feel like we've got enough to get us started? >> I feel good. Um, for Don and S, I'll be actually in European time zone for the week leading up to Chaos Con just as like a co-working like you'll know where I'm where I'm at like time zone wise. >> Okay, cool. Yeah, that's helpful. Um, okay. So, the next thing we have on the agenda is uh moving repel over. >> Yes. I what I wanted to do was to just go synchronously through where I'm at with this and we can kind of talk through figure out what is this is not the right tab. um what is the gap of where it's at now and where it needs to be and also if people have suggestions on how for me how I do this I wanted to get like for people who aren't aware um under the project Aspen umbrella it's been 8 knot and repel which repel is just kind of a name for open research that existed predating the data science working group now that the data science working group exists this isn't necessary and I don't want it to exist anymore to separate out where no like where research is done because a lot of this is is the precursor of more complex visualizations that goes into eight knot or research that we do that's more specific to Red Hat anything that can be public we put it here and I want that to change to be under the data science working group but I don't want to lose the resources that we have and so I've been taking what this is like the current state of repel and I have pretty pretty much just cleared everything out. And this would be the and we can figure out what Navy would want it, but this would be the single directory that would get moved over to the chaos data science working group. And I want to make sure that this entire directory is in the state that we want it to be before opening it because it's going to be a giant difficult PR to even parse through because there's going to be probably like a hundred files. Um, so, so I I've been wanting to go back and forth with people now to make sure as much as possible. There's probably going to be more things that we want to change of naming organization. Um, for some context, there is a lot of research that has been done by people who are no longer at Red Hat and are no longer active in this work. And I still think they're useful resources. But I wanted to make sure to separate those out so then people know that realistically if they have questions about it like I can answer the best I can. But those authors and that research has been put in like as as you see here the attic notebook. They've been put into the attic. These are re these are notebooks that I think are great for people to look at if they're starting at research. Um they're resources but they are not going to be something that are being actively worked on. Um and then we have the the um directory for 8not which are all the this is kind of how visualizations get built in 8 that are more complex start with the notebook you go through the notebook phase and then you open the PR for 8not so then the data prep-processing is done in a way that can be reviewed and iterated on in itself and then how it's integrated like more of a software engineering standpoint is done on the eight knot side but this folder will be good for people in those different sections of we have these notebooks. You have a plotly tutorial of like how do you start making these visualizations and you have a bunch of notebooks to go off of of hey here are the notebooks that went into making each of the it's a onetoone and if you look at the code that's in eight knot it is a copy and paste um from each of these. So the I went correct wrong thing. So we have 8 knot which is just the visualizations that go into 8 knot the attic notebooks which has a lot of different stuff in here. We have augur archive. So if anybody is familiar with the augur front end um these were things that were went into that whenever it was not just a um the words are like a admin portal is pretty much what the augur front end is now because 8 exists. um old visualizations. These kind of fit under that same one. Uh visualizations that were done even at Red Hat that predate my time. Um and different research that's been done in the past looking at emerging AI projects. Like I said, you can kind of read through these, but these are different research efforts that were done in the past. I think they're really useful to look at and but they are in the attic. And then we have some survival analysis curves that was worked on by Greg Suckliffe. Oh, they're kind of more in pause. The person is still around and we'll Greg will talk to you about survival analysis as long as you would like. Um, so yeah, this is the current state and structure. I know that notebooks is not going to be the final name of the overarching directory, but just wanted to give a walkthrough and get um uh some feedback on it. >> Yeah. So, I I think this all looks good. We kind of talked about it on Slack back and forth about putting things in attic and and where things go. Um, so I think that's I think that's good. >> Um, >> let's just talk for a minute about what we what we should call that directory. I mean, should we everything under here is specific to it uses the Augur database, correct? >> Yes. >> I wonder I wonder if we just call it something like Augur visualizations and just be really specific. >> Yes. And that that fits what we what like the description of this ended up being because I think that's kind of what we were talking about before of these are notebook specific. So it kind of just be like augur notebooks. These are all vis these are all notebooks that are dependent on connecting to an augur database. That's structure that that is used. Um that makes sense. I might add in want to add in here a link to the augur schema even though the ones on that list is a little bit out of date. And then people can see that schema. But that that like so it would just be augur notebooks is kind of what >> um augur dash notebooks. We try to use dashes in >> Yeah. >> Okay. Do you want me to change all these file all of these um folder as the >> No. >> Okay. >> No, I wouldn't I wouldn't bother. Um and I've been inconsistent on it. I was just looking at the data science working group repository and challenges surveys and underscore practitioner guides is a dash. Uh within the chaos project, we've sort of standardized on dashes, but we're not we're not particularly consistent about it. I wouldn't say if you want to go through and change them all, you can, but that feels like a lot of work for not a lot of benefit. >> Yeah, that makes sense. So, I'll change that. And I don't know if people I've talked a little vaguely and I need to look at what Adrian has suggested of the best way of how I the best way that I can go about um taking this directory and opening it as a PR to uh the data science working group. Maybe it is just doing it locally where I copy the directory and paste it into and we would probably what level I just want to be pretty specific since we're talking about it now of what >> I think we can probably put it right at the top level. I was just looking at this because it doesn't it doesn't fit nicely into any of these. Um, I agree. >> And so I think I think it can stand on its own as just augur auger visualizations be good. >> And I do think probably probably copying the directory locally and just doing it as a as a one big PR. Um, that's not normally how you would do something like this, I think. But I think given all the conversations we've had about it, I think maybe that's just the best way to do it. Um because I'll be honest, like I'll I'll I'll do a review on like I'll do a review on like the readmes and stuff, but >> uh you know, all the old notebooks and stuff, I think I'm just gonna trust you and we can probably just that. >> I'll do a sanity check to make sure that everything everything looks like it's where where we think it's supposed to be. But um but yeah, I think that I don't know. Adrian, do you have did you have any other thoughts on >> Yeah, I was just going to ask um I think Kelly, did you say you wanted to keep the full git history of these files? I think that might be possible. It might be a bit of a challenging thing. I think I've done stuff like that before, but >> if we can, I do because then it's more useful to be able to see who did like to who to reach out to. >> Um I would I would ask Brian if you should do that or not. Um because there could be sensitive comments because this was the the problem is this was a private repository within Red Hat. >> No, it wasn't. >> Oh, it was never a private repository within Red Hat. It was always in the open source. Okay. Okay. Cool. >> We have a different one for that. >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, we don't have the challenge of people may have made commits not understanding that it was going to be made public. Okay. Never mind. I I withdraw my comment. Cool. Um, and then the other thing is, uh, we do need Brian's explicit permission to do this. So, um, yeah, so before before that PR gets merged, I just want to see Brian's comment on it that says yes, Red Hat is contributing this to the chaos chaos project. is that we're best maybe should I just open an like maybe I should open an issue on the data science working group of move repel over so then um Brian can comment yes I approve like is that that's a good way of doing that okay >> yeah that would be perfect I just want to I just want paper trail so that you know in a few years if somebody at Red Hat is like I don't understand how this got contributed to the Linux Foundation we have a >> um paper books over to the >> Cool. Okay. So, does that does that give you what you >> Yeah, that's exactly. >> Yeah. I just wanted to talk through it quickly because this was a lot quicker. Um I think I'll probably be able to get this in and probably open the PR up today. Um, as long as I don't have any crazy issues trying to do the directory move over and yeah, I'll be cool to get this over and and finished. Okay, cool. Um, do we still Yes, we still have Ernest. Uh, you want to give us just a quick update on the foundation stats? I saw you typed a few things in there, but maybe just a just a quick update. >> Oh, yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Um so last December we took a break you know due to the um we had some busy things running through but now we resuming and that means that um we've resolved to manually attack the data collection. So and luckily we are seeing some new contributors that showing interest. So I will be actually on that trade from um let's say next week and then um gathering all the that we needed for Apache most importantly then eclipse and lightly on CNCF. So our target is the this quarter one we want to have a public um report maybe a white paper or a paper that at least talk about the metadata audit that we've been trying to do. So that's the target and one of the potential contributors are on this call today ora she reach out to me on LinkedIn and >> uh you're welcome to introduce yourself orua um if you're in a place where you can talk or you can type something in the chat uh whatever whatever works for you >> okay yeah I can introduce myself um my name is Lua I'm from Nigeria career and I've been exploring open source and I'm currently interested in the project and I currently I'm currently a student at the University of Lagos Nigeria and yeah um I'm quite excited to be it. >> Thank you. Uh yeah, welcome. We're we're happy to have we're happy to have you uh helping out with the foundation stats project because it's a it's a pretty interesting interesting project for sure. Um so we don't have any other agenda items, but I know Matt, you and I talked a little bit about some of the things that that you were you were working on and interested in. I don't know if you want to spend a couple of minutes. Do you want >> to introduce myself? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, Don. So my name is Matt Trafiro and I am the founder of the commercial open source startup alliance and uh the reason it intersects with with this group is um I believe that uh healthy companies and healthy projects can and should coexist and the best way to prove that is with data. Uh and so I I found some uh sympotico friends uh here Don being one of the earliest uh invited me along. I've also been working quite closely with Garrick and Daniel at the Beturgia and we're going to uh be releasing some really really interesting stuff coming up soon. But I'm really excited to be a new participant in Chaos. Uh love the work that you guys have done historically and um excited to contribute and collaborate. >> Awesome. Thanks Matt. You >> bet. >> I have a question with the research that y'all are working on. Is that any of that something that we can discuss within this working group or is it something that will more have to wait until it's published to have >> Oh boy, that's a great question. Yeah. Yeah. Well, in fact, um, uh, Garrick and Daniel have suggested creating a working group around, um, some of the work that we're doing, which is to take some of the chaos metrics and other metrics and, uh, combine them into, uh, what might look like a signal that an investor or a founder could use to measure how their project uh, and community are doing relative to their business. Um, and uh, Don has suggested that this working group would be a good place to find uh, folks that have interest in that, but it may actually belong in a different working group, but I'm I'm happy to cross-pollinate or end up, you know, sharing and and working on on the work uh, any place that's appropriate. The other thing that I'm directly involved in is um the Linux Foundation last year published a report that I was a co-author of LF Research called the commercial open source the state of commercial open source 2026. We're doing a new one in 2027. 2026 was based on uh 30 years of of uh VC and M&A and acquisition uh and public market data um across about 800 open source projects and about 800 private source projects. And the data demonstrates pretty conclusively uh in my opinion that um uh uh healthy communities contribute directly to the success of commercial open source companies. Um, and so that data is really uh interesting and that report is available for free from the Linux Foundation. The 2026 report, we've just kicked that off. We've got two sponsors. Red Hat is uh Amazon's the lead sponsor. Red Hat is a uh uh the the whatever the second, you know, uh as a supporting sponsor. And this year we're going to be doing interviews mostly mostly surveys of founders and and investors. >> That's great. I would say >> um with like the first stuff that you're talking about of like creating another work group, at least my like personal opinion is I guess why why make a new working I think it fits under this this working group. Um I I think I'm biased of like wanting all like data science research to exist under this working group. So then it it continues to be a space for like a lot of open collaboration. Um so >> well why don't we do this Cali? I I talked to the Patricia guys on Friday. I will suggest that I will bring that into that call. Um they're very familiar with chaos and what they're thinking. Um I'm the the outsider here still. So uh I I'm sure and maybe what I'll suggest is hey let's show up at the next data science working group meeting and let's have a discussion. It may be it may be that we're doing too much busy work to not have a separate workstream. Um but I think a a regular collaboration certainly makes sense and maybe it is the same group after all. But I'd love to to bring that to the Burgersia guys. >> Yeah, it depends a little bit on on where they want to take this because if they want it to be more like like the OSPO working group where they have discussions about you know what are the things that matter for you know commercial open source vendors what you know what are some of the if they want to have like bigger broader discussions around commercial open source in general and the metrics associated with it um then maybe a working group would be would be good. if we really want to just build a data set, uh, we can do that here. So, I think, yeah, like I said, Matt and I have talked, he hasn't had a chance to talk to the other folks he's been talking to, so we'll I guess >> I'm not super opinionated. Like, wherever wherever people want to help contribute, let I I'll go there. >> Cool. Yeah, because you know it's I could kind I could see it definitely being a little bit uh where it's somewhere in the middle where I would definitely want to push for it to the work to exist under the data science working group repository. Um so then we can kind of all collaborate on it. Um and there might I would definitely see during more of the heightened points of this work that you might need to have like a separate meeting but trying to do as much of it that is like the research side in here. So there's more collaboration. Um I'm definitely this works great. >> Well, there's a there's a really simple starting place and maybe maybe if I describe it you you can tell me whether it's perfectly appropriate or not. So uh it turns out there there is no canonical list of commercial open source companies like it just doesn't exist. And what that means is you can't go to Carta or CB insights or any data broker and say hey what tell me this do I want to do research on commercial open source company because that list that list doesn't exist and so I've started compiling this list um it's up to 1 1600 companies so it's still something that I can like you know manage as rows in a in a spreadsheet uh I suspect I'm still off by 50%. Um but again that list doesn't exist and there are no good lists of this. So, so there will be this canonical list that I would like the community to own and contribute to. Um, is that the kind of thing that would belong? Okay, then that makes >> it kind of fits similarly to like what we just did with Repel, even though it's a different format. I'm hoping that the data science working group repository ends up being like this rich resource of different types of data sources. you're starting to look at like what what's going on over and like foundational stats is like working on gathering that data. I think that's a large portion of it. And so it existing here also allows for other people that aren't y'all to maybe do research that you haven't even thought of. There's a lot of people that have been coming in asking for different things. So by providing if that does exist providing different ideas you'd be surprised by how many people want to kind of take those type of things and run especially people who are in the acade academia space and are looking for different kind of research opportunities that are actually like kind of applicable in the real world. >> Great. I'm super excited Cali. I appreciate the invitation and like I said, I'm talking to to some of these folks on Friday and uh I'll I'll bring up this discussion >> for sure. Are y'all going to be at Chaos Con this year? >> Uh I was not planning to travel. I had not gotten enough advanced notice, but that would have been a lot of fun. But I bet Daniel will probably be there. >> Yeah, happy to discuss there or if there's like kind of like further stuff like just reach out to me. We can talk about it here. Um because yeah, this would be great to kind of populate kind of some new life and new types of research in this group. >> Okay, >> cool. Awesome. Thanks, Matt. >> Yeah. Um, so I've got kind of an agenda for for the next meeting, which is um, we'll probably need to do just a bit more on the chaos planning. Just tighten that up a little bit as we get closer to the event because it'll be actually the ne All right, here's my question. The next data science working group meeting is on the 27th, which is basically two days before Chaos Con. Um, do we want to hold that meeting? Do we want to cancel that meeting? I'll be I'll be honest. I think I'm going to take that Monday and Tuesday off since I'm going to be working from Wednesday straight through the weekend. >> I'll be Yeah, I'll be skiing in France. So, unless there is something that is desperately needed of me, please don't need me. >> Okay, let's do that. You know what? Um, we'll just we'll cancel cancel the next meeting. Um, I'm g put this at the top. >> I'm sorry to hear that, Cali. That sounds horrible. >> Just terrible. Um, >> be honest from my end. I don't know how accessible the meeting could be for us. Maybe we could just meet off off this meeting. Anyways, I want to have consistent meetings with new contributors. you know just find a way to keep tab with the data we are collecting because you know time goes by very easily but I guess we can do that off the chaos um off this call so it's okay to cancel it I wanted to think otherwise before >> um if you if you want to um if you want me to leave the January 27th meeting um I can just put you I can just say that you'll facilitate it um and and you can you can work on the foundation stats project and focus the meeting on that if that's what you want to do. >> Yeah, that will cool off for me. That will be okay. >> Okay. So, Earnest facilitating um focus meeting on foundation stats. Okay. And so these the project updates, commercial open source data and stuff, we'll uh put that in February. >> And same with same with your update, Matt. >> Yeah, that'll make sense because I think that all like so many of us are just heads down on Chaos Con and then we can kind of discuss what things look like afterwards. I was curious if we can kind of talk about this for you, Don and S. Are y'all planning on coming to Brussels the day prior or are y'all training in the day of? I'm pretty much trying to figure out any people who are trying to train the day of. I want to prepare for their absence in case. >> Yeah, because there are train disruptions is what Callie is talking about. There are some train disruptions. No, I am coming in um I should be in Brussels uh early afternoon on Wednesday. So, I'll be there in advance. >> Okay. because that leaves time for things to go wrong. I'll we can talk to S to see what their kind of plans are just in case because if somebody else needs it's a little bit easier cuz our content is a little bit later in the afternoon. But I wouldn't be surprised if we go to the next call and the entire schedule gets turned around because this is a I Yeah, I don't Is this Is this Has this happened before or is this like a new problem? Is this like a new thing? I >> uh no this this actually happened last year um but not it wasn't quite so widespread. So last year it was the German um train operators that were striking and we had quite a few people coming in via train from from Germany. And so we had several luckily I don't think it was any speakers. I think the speakers were able to make it. They were able to book flights or something and and get there. Um so it wasn't quite as disruptive. But we'll yeah I I don't know. I don't know how bad it's going to be. We'll see. We should have a better we should have a better idea of what things look like once that rail um it's what is it industrial industrial action or something that's what we call them in in the UK. Um >> when you're going to have a little bit of a notice like it's not going to be like day of every like most like it sounds like there's a little bit more organization when it comes to how these strikes work. >> Um I don't know. I couldn't find a lot of information about it, but um what I what I did see was that um I can't find the Oh, there we go. So, the strike is right before the Fosdown weekend. Um the website that I'm looking at is very helpfully in Dutch, which does not not help me. Um >> oh, their website's down for maintenance. That's great. Um >> the website's on strike, too. >> Website's on strike. That's what happens. Um, okay. So, the strike though is uh before the FOS down weekend. So, what we need to do is find out when when the strike starts and then we can look at the actual like we can look at the impact from where people are coming. Like we can see um you know on if if it starts on Monday, we can look on say Tuesday and see what the trains from Paris to Brussels are looking like. Um, and also sometimes, uh, sometimes the strikes get resolved before they happen. Um, at least in the in the UK. So, we'll see. We'll see what happens. But if we look at if we look at how disrupted things are a day or two before Chaos Con, I think that'll give us an indication for how bad it's going to be. >> Yeah. >> But we won't be able Sorry, we won't be able to do that until right before. So, we'll see. >> Yeah. It might be good for us if we can kind of talk in the next one of like just identifying what speakers like if speakers are coming on a plane so we don't really like trying to figure out who's actually coming in on train so we know who to check in with that week instead of needing to like reach out to everybody and and so we know who we're targeting. >> Well, we can talk to to Garrett because I think he's got some other speaker communications and so this is probably this is probably on his list, but we can just double check in the uh KSCON meeting which I think should be soon. Yeah. See it. >> Okay. Awesome. We are out of time. Thanks everybody for being here. This was uh this is a really interesting meeting and um I look forward to seeing some of you at at FOSDM and the rest of you will uh we'll see you in February. >> Sounds good to see you everybody. Guys, >> thanks everybody. Bye. Thank you., CHAOSS Data Science WG, Jan 13, 2026, YouTube, 01kp8jhwydas3a11b8rh4kw3g2.