CHAOSS OSPO WG, April 2 2026  🔗 **Source:** [CHAOSS OSPO WG, April 2 2026](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RXrSMM5OLg) Okay, cool. Um, we are recording now. Welcome to the chaos working group meeting. Today is April 2nd and we are having today we have Travis Hathaway who will be talking about using chaos at Anaconda. So I will pass it on to you Travis to kick us off. >> Great. I'll go ahead and uh start sharing my screen. Share the whole desktop. Cool. All right. Yep. So, um, today what I'm going to talk about is more it's going to be more of a story and a sort of a look into what, um, is currently going on at Anaconda um, to better um, measure and kind of assess the health of the open-source projects that we support. And yeah, so I'll be kind of using a combination of this HackMD document I made plus a couple. We're going to be going through some of my browser tabs that are just going to be kind of telling the story. So yeah, just uh that's how the the presentation today is going to work. And then if anyone has any questions at any point, please uh interrupt me. I would be happy to kind of um discuss. But um otherwise, I will have some kind of some discussion items um that we could think about at the end. So yeah, so um for all of you that don't uh know who I am, um so I'm I've been working at Anaconda now since 2022 and um yeah, I'm originally from the United States uh and I moved to Germany actually in uh 2019. Before that I did a master's studies in um in Germany and the studies program was actually nothing related to software engineering. It was the it was called sustainability, society and the environment. And so it was very much a social science and kind of geography focused degree. And when I came across the kind of topic of open- source metrics, assessing project health and kind of the the social aspects that had that really interested me, right? Because it's um it kind of involves both aspects of social science but then also um technology. And so that's kind of why me as a software engineer I' I've taken a a particular kind of interest in this. And um I should also mention that the um work that I'm doing is part of our community guild within our company and therefore it is not per se my sort of day-to-day task. My my day-to-day task or manage is the cond package manager. Um and so I'm allowed to donate about um I would say 10% of my time to these projects. Um yeah, but then regardless of that, we us as the community guild, we have set a goal um to deliver a report on sort of a handful of our outbound um open source projects um projects that we basically staff and yeah, kind of make available for everybody to use. Um yeah and so the one some of the reasons that we're doing this is that so we we I think a lot of us know that these projects do have a lot to offer and we on top of assessing the health it's also a what what I I'm kind of personally interested in is sort of telling the stories of these projects and yeah we'll I'll talk about that more in a second but yeah but just to give you an idea of some of my more my day-to-day work um I'm involved with a kind of packaging packaging manager which the Honda um packaging manager is more than actually just a packaging manager right it's this is it's an actually it's an open-source ecosystem of packaging and it have we have our own sort of philosophy towards packaging um we have our own set of standards for packaging and so this community exists obviously within Anaconda and was kind of the the genesis of this was at Anaconda but we also very much are now for for the last yeah since actually I've been at Anaconda we've been really trying to make this a community that's supported by multiple stakeholders um and not just Anaconda and um yeah but let me get on we'll move to the next slide I can't see oops all right so um yeah so at Anaconda uh we do I mean one of the things about Anaconda if uh if people don't know they were um a company that was started in the early 2010s and back then it was known as Continuum Analytics and the company sort of started a out of um kind of the the offices in Austin, Texas. And it was two people that were instrumental in in founding it which was uh Travis Alifont and Peter Wang. And they were essentially solving problems for developers back then. um especially and especially developers in scientific computing. And so back then the sort of act of just getting stuff installing and running on your computer was actually quite difficult. And so the sort of flagship open source project from Anaconda helped solve this um help solve a lot of these problems. And so then that sort of flourished into the business that is today. Um, and I think now the company currently employs over about 300 to 400 people and is has a presence in I think several continents. I know North America, Europe, Asia and Australia for sure. Yeah. And then um so a lot of the work that we do is we we support open- source uh development by um basic staffing uh projects uh like the project I'm working on but then other projects such as uh beware um pi scripts uh numba and um dask and hollow viz and so um this is also done by supporting um a organization called Num Focus. And Num Focus is a nonprofit that's specifically uh focused on giving scientists uh better tools uh for any I mean and there's just such an amazing variety of packages here. Um everything from data visualization to really popular machine learning uh libraries to um astroi which is uh used heavily in astrophysics. Um yeah, so and Anaconda is is heavily involved in sponsoring um this organization. And so um yeah, so where does this take us? uh back to sort of Anaconda's outbound open-source metrics and kind of now I'm going to talk about the early sort of days of things that we've kind of tried out to measure the the impacts of these of these projects. And I want to show you all a tool of of mine that I developed but never really um got to publish because like I said a lot of this work sort of takes the yeah it sort of takes a backseat to my primary work on condom. And so this was merely just a prototype that we um that I kind of took maybe about a month to complete. And um but the idea here right was that we had a open-source uh measuring open source dashboard where it would be a dashboard where you could go to assess the health of various open- source projects and um was actually I mean it it didn't it it's pretty minimally useful um but still pretty neat. I mean we have as you see we these are like the the big projects we support. So, um, some Jupyter projects, Piscript, Beware, um, some the Hall of Data visualization and ultimately this was meant to sort of be expanded on even more, but at the end of the day, it was only just measuring um, things like activity on the project um, and then also just the number of issues and pull requests. And this was all being pulled from from the um yeah from GitHub's APIs directly. But yeah, we can kind of see the various projects here. Yeah. And um and flip there to see sort of these uh projects as well. But yeah um so after writing this and a little bit time some time comes later I I'm also introduced to things like the LFX uh dashboard which is is an amazing tool um in my opinion that offers like a lot of really cool statistics and basically renders like you know things like this kind of completely useless in my my opinion because this is um just organized in such a better way. And so, um, yeah, so this was, um, a really neat project. I've been keeping an eye on it and also sort of assessing it for our use internally to see whether it could be kind of part of how we kind of collect and uh, display data um, for uh, the open source projects that we that we maintain. And then um but additionally right I I also wanted to kind of take a moment to talk about the chaos metrics because the what what I felt where I feel that chaos metrics kind of offer a benefit and where you kind of sometimes can get lost here is these are just kind of statistics dashboards. This one offers a really nice sort of like these really great themes with contributors and everything. And this is definitely a a big step in the right direction, but where um the chaos um health metrics sort of I think differentiate themselves is that they are very much specifically like tailored to um specific to specific users, right? the so if we look at the one I was interested in which is the community activity um to measure kind of what's going on with um with our our the projects we support um what I really enjoyed was the fact that there it begins with sort of a you know a why it matters and a and a user stories um kind of summary to really see um hey like this is exactly the person that we want to target and um these are the types of metrics that you could use in in order to address um these these questions. And so right now um internally what what we're doing is I've decided that it would be really great for us to take the the metrics in the community activity and then um and then basically like uh most of this is coming from GitHub. A couple other things are coming from some other sources. I mean, for example, like community meeting rosters, right? Um, I'll have to can't really automate that or I can't. Well, sometimes you can, sometimes you can't, but that that'll be kind of a fun one to collect everything. But the idea is is that um what what what my goal is is is to create a report um that's some it's kind of a you can think of like probably like an annual report at first just to sort of go through the process of creating this report once to see what it what it feels like and then um being able to kind of pass this around the company and trying to get traction too within the company to see if we raise anyone's eyebrows. trials if anyone can say like, "Hey, yeah, this is really great. I really learned some things from this report." Um, and so in order to do that, I've I've written I'm kind of starting a a new a new tool that's kind of written on top of some of the existing uh tools that I've seen floating around in the sort of chaos sphere. Right? So this is a this is a CLI tool that's written using uh underlying is using pers which is a really amazing um CLI tool and so this is a where where PCAL is more geared towards kind of gathering statistics for specific projects. Um, this one is kind of like sits a little bit like a layer above that where we we're mostly interested in in in gathering and generating reports for entire organizations on GitHub. And um yeah, so this and this tool is still in its infancy. I'm really hoping that um some of the LLM kind of um yeah, LLM tool um code tooling things are going to help me go a bit faster um when developing this. Um and actually and right now I'm kind of this has been I kind of got started and I'm it's been taking a backseat because I'm actually going to be presenting at uh this month's PI data conference in Germany on something completely different. So, um, but yeah, after that con conference, I really want to get going with this and and be able to sort of have the the metrics here, but at the same time, I think the the the the really important part for me too is to kind of get away from having just a a sterile looking sort of statistics. um dashboard. What I really want to be able to do is to have a format where yes, there are statistics, but there are stories behind these statistics. And um and so for example, if we look at the I think maybe we can actually see this. I'm going to go back here. I'm going to look at beware and yeah February anyway. Yeah. So there are for example if we look at the closed pull requests um and maybe if we even look at new issues that's a little bit more noisy but for example I know that the maintainer of this project um Russell he actually he uh we we were able to meet and um at a couple at a conference last year Euro Python and he told me about um a lot of success that he had um for a sprint in beware and and how there was a lot of first-time contributors. And you can see some of these um these spikes in closed poll requests, right? And so the thing that I'm really interested in is to kind of get get a format where you can see these graphs and then have sort of for example we would probably do like a 2025 year review and then interview the maintainers of the people involved with the project to sort of shape the narrative. So in that way we're both taking quantitative and qualitative data in order to really sort of like yeah push push forward a a story and in the project and sort of yeah how people are dealing with it, right? and this Yeah. And it's it sounds like a lot of work and yeah, obviously it's going to be a lot of work, but um that's sort of like my kind of pie in the sky kind of goal with all this is that and I think that if I could focus on sort of that angle with reporting these statistics, then it then it then it becomes something that's um that's way more um way more engaging for people that are actually reading it. and and and not only kind of it's not just a statistics dashboard, right? It's a way for people to learn about the project and um yeah, and it could be a really fun and and and if I can kind of get this software working well enough and kind of get the um maybe even standardize some of the questions that I'm asking as far as like, yeah, how is this year and the software? Um that could be um yeah, it could be a really fun thing to kind of build on, but yeah, we'll see. Um yeah, I guess that that brings me back at maybe um so I can kind of start to so that I'm at the end of the stuff I wanted to talk about and then so yeah the on top of any questions that you all might have some qu discussion items questions I I thought about too was this this uh there are there are so many tools out there how do we how do we find our way I mean I I actually and I right before signing on today I saw I I really I like the podcast that you all do I think it's it's super amazing And I just saw like this uh person's sort of AI assisted repo health tool and I was like oh and I looked at it I was like okay yeah interesting and and it's just I I know that with the and even with LLMs right like the LLM is allowing me to write my own tool and it's just this it feels like we're we're in this Cambrian explosion of tools. Right. Right. It's just pretty crazy. So maybe maybe if anyone had any idea just how to how to find your way in this like sea of just like oh there's so much stuff out there and The other thing too is just I'm really really interested to hear what people think about this sort of this narrative approach, right? And combining quantitative and qualitative data and sort of trying to put more of a human uh yeah kind of human- centered approach to these dashboards. But anyway, thank you very much. I appreciate your time and yeah, happy to to talk about any of this with all you. So >> awesome. Thank you for sharing, Travis. It's really cool to see all this work and what you're doing behind the scenes with open source at Anaconda. Um, okay. Does anyone have any questions or would like to discuss any of the action items, the two bullets points below? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Go ahead, Remy. Oh, those aren't action items, by the way. They're just discussion items. >> Discussion items. Excuse me. Yes. No. >> No action necessary. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah. Remy, can you uh go ahead? >> Yeah. Thank you for your presentation today. Really interested to to check out your uh chaos, you know, tools that are in their infancy. Um, we've actually talked a couple times within the OSPO at CMS about more of a narrative approach to, you know, going beyond the dashboards and like trying to tell a story. Um, a long long time ago, you know, very long time ago, back when like, you know, uh, was sort of starting, uh, there was a project called olo.net net that would like scrape all of the open source projects and then try to >> put some kind of like metrics on top of them and describe them a little bit. >> And there's a a summarization tool that I still think is like one of the best ones for characterizing the activity within an open source project. >> Uh it was purchased or acquired by Blackduck once upon a time and then rebranded to OpenHub. So like if you go and check out this page right here and like you're still screen sharing so if you just click on it in the chat it should take you to the to the page for itself which is one of the ones I tried beware I tried pi script but >> um the in a nutshell >> uh section right in the center is one of my favorites where it's just like um it's actually up yeah they got a lot of dashboard stuff too. Oh, right, right, right. Yeah. Right here. >> The narrative right here where it's like it has this many commits by these many contributors with this amount of code. It's mostly written in this. It's well established with a very large team with increasing year-over-year commits, 22 years of effort. First commit, last commit. Like that narrative structure is like if you can get those metrics, you can plug and play them. And like >> we've been experimenting in the OSPO about like how do we pull certain project metadata and then fill these narrative structures so that you can tell more of a story about the repository instead of being like check out this graph. Like a lot of people don't really want to check out a graph as much, right? So >> yeah. Yeah, that's Yeah, >> I love this. >> Cool. That Yeah, thanks a lot for sharing. And it's like um this this reminds me cuz I like I said before the the thing that I heard about on the podcast the repo health I one of the so the the the the thing so obviously I'm I'm a I'm a maintainer one of the maintainers of the the cond um this repo health had a it's geared for people that want to contribute to the project and then it had a really funny section that was at least funny for me cuz it was showing ing the um like top three or top four pull requests that had been rejected and then giving like an LLM kind of like reason for like this was why it was rejected and then this is what the mistake that was made and and so I wonder and I and I so I wonder now like with um with this in a nutshell, right? Like I think that there there's a lot of opportunity but also also there's the opportunity to sort of make these a little bit more richer with LLMs because they can use their sort of yeah the more humanlike kind of expressions right um to to to summarize the projects but at the at the same time it's it's as a as a project maintainer myself I always kind of think I always look at it and go and I kind chuckle because I'm like, "Well, I guess why don't you just ask us, you know, like you could I we could tell you like how to make a good poll request and you don't have to you don't have to use an LLM." Like you can we I mean, for example, we have a Zulip channel and anybody can come by and um we we want and we want people we want people to kind of connect with us, right? Rather than I Yeah. cuz I but but but I but I totally understand like I mean because if you want to just if if you if you're if you're reviewing hundreds of open source projects, right? Um it's like the having taking all of that time to go and and make a meaningful connection with each of those project maintainers. That's that's absolutely you can't do that, right? And so I totally see the the value of having those types of tools. But yeah. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. >> Yeah. Uh Laura, um please uh ask your question. >> Um I'm really interested. I'm a community manager for um the University of California network of open source program offices. And so I'm really interested in the community angle and in particular how prominently community features in the the like is it a KPI? Is it like how how is it valued? How does it how is it featured in in in the values? And um how does that play out in terms of what gets prioritized? I you were saying that you can you can use 10% of your time for this which is awesome. Is that like common or is that special for you? >> Oh yeah. No. So the let me and that's actually a really good that's a really great question because I I work in um so my my des I'm a I'm a software engineer and I'm working on this the on theonda project and then I would say and so the Anaconda doesn't actually have an OSP office but they do have um a really great team of uh developer relations and so those are the people that are currently like really leading the torch on um on on a lot of that work and and a lot of community building and so um I and I work and so two of their names are Dawn and Dana and yeah I'll actually be seeing Dawn soon um in Pi for Pyon Germany and so yeah they really are doing a lot of that work so don't yeah and so that's um I I'm not representative but it's just because uh I because I think I've I've worked in companies in the past and they've kind of framed it differently, but they framed it as guilds or or other things, but yeah. So, the community guild that we have or Yeah. is it's it's just it's like an interest group that um people that might not necessarily get to do more of like the dev rail or like these or for example in this case kind of like some of like the OSPO work they can kind of get their feet wet and they can go experiment around and and pick up projects uh for that. So, I think it's and it's actually really great and I and I really enjoy the fact that the company um has these sorts of groups and and makes that available and it and it really it for me it feels like it empowers everybody to be able to sort of pursue their own interest um at the company regardless of what role role they're in. So, does that does that help make make does that make a little bit more sense now that I've explained it? >> Um yeah. Yeah. I guess I'm I'm still wondering a little bit um about how whether whether community is Oh, I'm sorry. I'm totally asking a second question. Is that allowed? >> All right. Yeah. No, no. Yeah, totally. Yeah, please go for it. >> Um how how weather community is like um is part of the Anaconda narrative super much? like I I am more familiar with like um Pippi than I am I mean I know of Anaconda but I haven't I haven't used it very much. Um and so I'm just curious to know how much how important the community is to Anaconda as a whole if that makes sense. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I can unequivocally state that the community is incredibly important to Anaconda, right? Like Anaconda is a is a company that is founded by open-source and would not exist without um all of the things that like open source does. And so because the company has such a huge vested interest in open source, it it directly invests like um in projects in conferences. Um, for example, this very strong relationship with Num Focus. Um so it's it basically yeah I would say that it's a it's a really really big focus of of the company as a whole and specifically you know the company has has you know I think what you could what's known in the industry as an open core model where we we offer our core offerings for free for and so free for for community users and because we want to support people we want to support the language we want to make sure that these these technologies are going to be around for the long haul and that they're sustained. But then obviously and then like a lot of other open source companies, we have, you know, added added features that people can buy and you know um use for subscriptions. So yeah, that's that gives is that that that's a bit of a long and short of how um yeah, of how the the company engages with community and stuff. So >> cheers. >> Thanks. Yeah. Uh Remy, can you Remy, can you uh would you like to answer or ask another question? Yeah. So the first uh question is just a request to post the link to your hackd page that you were sharing earlier. >> Totally. And then uh the second one is so it sounded to me like um the community guild was not just like an open-source uh interest group or like community but like actually was like a a focus on making upstream contributions or making open source contributions type thing. Did I get that right or did I not understand it? maybe just tell tell me more about the community guild. >> Yeah, so the community guild because because the thing is is that uh Anaconda by by staffing um open-source projects uh they they already do I mean they they already do make substantial like very like big contributions to the wider open source community. um especially um all the different sort of technologies that Num Focus sponsors um like the Beware project, PiScript and everything. Um, the community guild is more of a it's more of like a meta group that is trying to trying to make sure that we are being attentive to the communities like the different open source communities they and it's also you could think about it also as a place because because I I kind I listed off like a bunch of different open source projects at the company right and so the thing is is that we we all these different open source those projects and and like I said with the Honda like ecosystem right like that's its own big ecosystem of of people and stakeholders in at Anaconda outside Anaconda and the thing is is that we we wanted the community guild as a space to for people working in these different open source projects to be also to be able to come together to kind of share like hey you know I'm organizing a community group this is working this isn't working or hey there's a project that um I feel is in danger of going under because um you know the core maintainers stepping down is this perhaps something that we want to start supporting. So it's it's it's very much like it's kind of like yeah it's like the meta group of all the different sort of open source efforts at at in the company. So that's that that's that's kind of my my best way of of explaining it. It's and it's also had a couple of different iterations too as well and we're at the company we're currently with on our on our kind of second iteration of it. So yeah. >> Yeah. No, that structure sounds very familiar. Um not in my not in my current OSPO but in previous OSOs I've been a part of in the private sector. Um a common sort of configuration or organizational pattern I've seen is like a like an open source shepherds group. So you know across the organization there will be the different open source leads or community leads from each of the individual repositories or projects and then you have some kind of like regular convening where everybody can come together at that meta layer and talk about like project level stuff and board level stuff. >> Um as opposed to being just focused on like your one vertical within your one project. And >> yeah, >> you know, I think that pattern uh from like an OSBO evolution standpoint, like it predates OSOs to a large extent as well because they're, you know, it also is like a a maturity where when you have enough mature open source projects and they start to each have their own community like identity and they're each community like leaders, then the need to like coordinate across them. So I think that's like a wonderful sign of like a very mature uh open source community within I mean I'm not surprised like you folks have some of the biggest Python projects and some of the you know OG Python hackers on you know in the community >> in your stable. So >> yeah, >> this is fascinating like really you know and you probably didn't come here to talk today about like your your organizational structure and how you do things but like you know OSBO folks run them and manage them like we you know everybody's learning from each other's models and how we structure and you know operate our organizations and it's you know both familiar and novel to to hear some of the ways you folks are approaching it. So thank you for sharing today. >> Yeah great. Yeah. Yeah. and and it's it's been it's also, you know, it's a two-way street. I was really I don't I'm not sure if I I wasn't able to make the the previous meeting, but the one before that was really informative. Um I think it was Cornelius from Deutschean came and spoke. And yeah, um for me it's it's I think that's the power with these groups is that we get to sort of share about kind of what's going on um you know as internally, right? we don't obviously we're sharing what we can share. Um, but it's it's really cool that and I think because I mean really the for me the the whole the whole open source ethos is that there it's it's good to know when it's when it when we can collaborate and kind of knowledge share and and really kind of make sure that you know as a world right or yeah whatever that we're all sort of maybe we're we're we're able to operate more efficiently. But then obviously there's um you know we live in sort of capitalist mostly capitalist countries where we then also need to sort of maintain a competitive edge right and um I I think yeah open source software and that whole ethos kind of yeah it's uh it's it's cool it's it's on one hand yeah has this kind of sharing mentality but then still leaves the door open for yeah a bit of competition and a bit bit of like differentiation amongst the competitors in order to see who's the best, right? And who can, you know, well, yeah, who can offer the best products and all that good stuff. But yeah, just my own little philosophy on that, though. But yeah, I I actually and I assume that it's interesting because I think um if I'm not mistaken, some of you are working in the the public sector, right? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Ah, cool. Yeah. Yeah. I've I've Yeah. At one point, I did I actually worked for a university. It was one of my first tech jobs. It was Portland State University in Portland, Oregon. And um yeah, that was an amazing job. I really really like that um job. We got to I worked for the research compute department. So Oh, nice. Thanks. Yeah, research. No, wait, excuse me. It was It was way more fancy sounding. It was academic research computing. We worked it was great because we worked right next to the they they put us in the basement office that was like right next to the data center. So the offices were always and we were and we were right next to the biggest air conditioner on the whole campus. So the office was always just super cold and dark. It felt like a cave. So yeah, Remy. Yeah. Yeah. Go for it. >> Yeah. I know we have some some academic friends here and curious is uh is another group that's you know closely associated with with chaos and the hospital working groups but you know a quick comment is uh you know the the academic research computing you know sector or like you know wing of the open source community has really gone through such a transformation in the past couple years like it used to be just for like are you doing like high performance computing and like big distributed time sharing massive of like supercomputer stuff >> and then all of a sudden once the LLMs hit it's like oh yeah where do we have the gigantic computing resources that have GPUs to spare and like those places have become just like the epicenter for a lot of like AI things now too. So I'm really interested to revisit, you know, I I also was at the the the open source program office at Rochester Institute of Technology for a while and did, you know, my stint in the academia in the like era of like the 2010s through 2015s, 2016ish. And so, you know, we often were were hanging out with our friends in the in the research computing department. They had some some really prolific open source projects there. And um now that is you know sort of reentered again I think is is one of the key places in open source that uh I haven't revisited in a while. Does the UC OS system do you folks have like big research computing connections or like big research computing uh you know stakeholders within your network Laura? >> Uh yeah we do. Um, so I think I'm not I guess I'm not actually sure whether each campus has one, but I know of them on most of the campuses. Each one has their own HPC. Um, there isn't a centralized like a UC HPC. it it'll be located in on the various campuses but we also have like we have three national labs and uh they for damn sure you know um and and uh one of our you know flagship projects is Jupiter and they're kind of kind of tight with the data folks too. So >> cool. Well, uh yeah, if um yeah, I think if uh is there any um other sort of meeting talks for today? Maybe we can kind of close this this portion of the meeting. Thank and thank and I thank you so much everyone for the warm welcome and yeah giving me a place to come share some of the fun stuff I've been working on over the last year or so. So really appreciate it. >> Okay, last call for questions. Okay, cool. Otherwise, thank you so much for being our main presenter, Travis. Um, we always love hearing what other I guess you're not an OSO, but what other companies have been doing in the open source space, especially with outbounding. I'm uh part of the CMS OSPO and that's like um one of the main uh focuses that I have in my work. I think one thing I want to share actually is this is our own um metrics website with our own set of reports. Um yeah, feel free to check out. We have reports on the organization level and also on the project level. And we also similar to you have community activity metrics, but on top of that, we have things like libeers and other security metrics. And we also include metadata from um in our reports too to kind of help with our storytelling if you're curious about how we're tackling this. And um let's see, we have new interns coming on this summer. So our goal is to have them um implement more chaos metrics into these reports and hopefully tell work on our storytelling um in these reports as well. So we'll see how it goes. Um but yes, thank you for sharing what's going on on your side of the world. >> Yeah, perfect. And I'll I'll stay on Slack and I'll I'll give you guys let me give everyone updates on uh yeah on how all the the tools that I'm writing. I intend to keep the tools open source so we'll be able to share it with you all. Okay, cool. For sure. We'll keep in touch. Okay. Um, let's see. For our last couple of agenda items, we have a couple of events that are coming up. There's one next week. It's called the OSPO virtual conference hosted by Punch Tape. I'm going to drop this in chat. Um, let's see. This one I believe is a 2hour free virtual event where they are bringing um a bunch of leaders from opos and practitioners to kind of show how opos work in practice not just in theory. Um the CMS OSPO will be giving a presentation there but we also have lots of friends in the space that are joining us such as the Ford OSPO. Let's see. Ford OSO, there's open source cowboy consulting that's going to be speaking there too. Some AI talks and some OSO tools as well. Um, yeah. So, that's next week and that's free. So, feel free to join us there. And we have two more events. The ASF's community over code happening in Glasgow later in October. And then we have all things open happening in October as well in North Carolina. and the CFP was due earlier this week. Cool. Otherwise, that's all that I had for today's agenda. Does anyone have any final thoughts? Otherwise, we will close out this meeting. Going once, going twice. Okay, cool. Awesome. Thank you for joining us everyone. We will see you in two weeks. Thank you again, Travis. Bye. Bye. >> Thank you. >> Bye, everyone. Good. Yes. >> Nice job, Matt. >> Thank you. >> Thank you for sharing., CHAOSS OSPO WG, April 2 2026, YouTube, 01kp8fx8rag9kyn440ex1062n9.