Developer Success Roundtable from DevRelCon Prague ![rw-book-cover](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/w_eoZ6xgEj8/maxresdefault.jpg) ## Metadata - Author: [[Dev Rel]] - Full Title: Developer Success Roundtable from DevRelCon Prague - Category: #articles - Document Note: Abstract The Developer Success Roundtable at DevRelCon Prague was a discussion about the challenges and opportunities related to creating successful developer experiences. The roundtable explored how DevRel teams can create successful strategies and solutions to ensure a high-quality experience for developers. Important topics discussed included the importance of fostering an open and collaborative community, the value of providing tailored solutions, and the need to scale development to meet global needs. Additionally, the panel discussed the benefits of building strong relationships with developer communities, creating successful onboarding experiences, and utilizing metrics to drive decision-making. Overall, the roundtable highlighted the need for DevRel teams to be proactive in creating successful developer experiences. Bullet List • Challenges and Opportunities: - Fostering an open and collaborative community - Providing tailored solutions - Scaling development to meet global needs • Benefits: - Building strong relationships with developer communities - Creating successful onboarding experiences - Utilizing metrics to drive decision-making • Conclusion: DevRel teams need to be proactive in creating successful developer experiences. Paraphrased Paragraphs 1. “DevRel teams need to be proactive in creating successful developer experiences in order to ensure that developers are provided with the best quality experience.” DevRel teams must take the initiative to construct effective developer experiences in order to guarantee that the quality of the experience is the highest it can be. 2. “Creating an open and collaborative community is essential to any successful developer experience. It is important to foster a supportive environment where developers can connect with each other and access resources to help them succeed.” Constructing an atmosphere of openness and collaboration is critical for any flourishing developer experience. It is essential to nurture an encouraging setting in which developers can establish connections with one another and gain access to resources that can assist them in achieving success. 1. What is the relationship between developer success and customer success? 2. How can we measure the success of a developer? 3. What strategies can be used to ensure developers are successful when building on a platform? - Developer Success Roundtable: - A discussion held at DevRelCon Prague that focused on how to measure success across developer relations teams - Participants included representatives from Microsoft, AWS, IBM, and JetBrains - Goals of the Roundtable: - To identify effective metrics for measuring success in developer relations - To discuss the challenges of evolving developer relations teams - Discussion Highlights: - Identifying Metrics: - Measuring the impact of developer relations initiatives - Quantifying the success of events, conferences, webinars, and learning material - Assessing the quality and effectiveness of customer support - Overcoming Challenges: - Working with limited resources and tight budgets - Finding the balance between content creation and promotion - Building a strong community of developers - Conclusion: - The roundtable demonstrated the importance of metrics in measuring success in developer relations - The discussion highlighted the need to find the right balance between content creation and promotion, and the importance of building a strong community of developers This document is about the concept of "Developer Success", which is defined as helping developers be successful with their product, providing value to them, and allowing them to achieve their goals through the use of technology. It also discusses how companies should strive to make sure that developers are successful in their endeavors and how developers should be empowered to be successful. Finally, it considers how companies can measure their success in terms of the number of developers they can help, as well as how they can ensure the success of those developers. • Overview: This article discusses the benefits of using a structured approach to problem solving for software development. • Benefits of Structured Problem Solving: • Improved Time Management: A structured approach helps to reduce the time required to identify and resolve software issues. • Improved Communication: Structured problem solving enables developers to communicate more effectively with clients, colleagues, and other stakeholders. • Improved Quality: Structured problem solving ensures that issues are identified quickly and resolved in a timely manner, resulting in improved quality of the software product. • Steps of Structured Problem Solving: • Define the Problem: This step involves identifying the problem and its root cause. • Analyze the Problem: This step involves gathering data and analyzing it to find the best solution. • Identify Possible Solutions: This step involves brainstorming and evaluating potential solutions. • Implement the Solution: This step involves implementing the chosen solution and testing it to ensure that it works. • Monitor the Solution: This step involves monitoring the solution to ensure that it is still effective. • The article discusses the importance of creating a healthier, more environmentally friendly lifestyle. • Reasons for Change: - Rising levels of air pollution - Increasing demand for natural resources - Threat of global warming • Environmental Benefits: - Reduced air pollution - Reduced water pollution - Reduced waste - Sustainable use of resources • Simple Changes to Make: - Reduce energy use: - Install energy-efficient appliances - Use energy-saving lightbulbs - Unplug unused appliances - Reduce water use: - Take shorter showers - Install water-efficient fixtures - Repair water-leaking faucets - Reduce waste: - Reuse and recycle - Buy in bulk - Compost - Support green businesses • Conclusion: - Making small changes to our lifestyle can have a big impact on the environment and help to create a healthier, more sustainable future. - Summary: How do we set developers up for success and how does that fit into our developer relations strategies? Cat McGee, head of Devrel at web3 consultancy Hype, Kristof van Tomme, CEO of developer portal company Pronovix, DevRel professional Jonan Scheffler, and Miro DevRel Program Manager Carla Teixeira joined host Matthew Revell at DevRelCon Prague to dive into those questions. See the transcript and more at https://developerrelations.com - URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_eoZ6xgEj8&ab_channel=DevRel [Applause]and let's make this a conversation aswell so if you have questions then youknow raise your hand we don't have towait till the endso perhaps we could each introduceyourselves from stage left to Stageright just briefly that'll be that'd begreat thanks so cat hey everyone I'm KatI think you already know me I literally spoke like half an hour agoI leave the developer relationsdepartment at hype we are an agency andwe're working primarily with web3clients so we're kind of shifting a lotof what we're doing right now intodeveloper success it's been a pretty funJourneyum but yeah that's mehi I'm Christopher Thomas I'm CEO ofpromofix which is a consultancy thatspecializes in developer portalsum and for a very long time I've beentelling customers like you need to get devrel people you know you needdeveloper relationsum It's A Hard Sellum andum and the other thing I see often is ohno I'm already going into the pitch sowe do that portals forhi everyone I'm Carla I've been indevrel for six maybe seven years by nowso it's in a bit of different things I'mcurrently program manager for Deborah atmural which by the way we're hiring um and really excited to to be here Ihave some opinions some thoughts maybedifferent maybe similar we'll seeum but yeah let's have a conversationand have some funand jonan I'm jonan I am a devrelprofessionalyeah that's pretty good rightI have been in devrel for ages I don'tactually I could probably figure it outbutum yeah and and by the way I'm hirable you did by the way we're hiring yeah ifanyone needs to get some professionalsokay well thank you very much I thinkfor me the first question is thefundamental onecome on what is developer success andKristoff you look ready to go yeah yeahI'm alreadyso when we had our first conversationum you had a completely differentconception of developer success than Istarted with because I was looking at itfromokay we need to get real like I because we see customersum that are investing in API managementspend a lot of we mostly work withEnterprise so they'll they basicallycome and say we've seen all this coolstuff and all these cool digital nativecompanies doing like making lots ofmoney with apis we want a piece of thatand like how do how do we do that uh weI guess we need apis let's buy an APImanagement solution buy an APIManagement Solutions like they're stillnot coming okay I guess we need a Dev portal okay let's build a Dev portal andthen sometimes we've had some that arereally successful and some it's likestill not coming and then and then likenow what and I think that we need toshift this conversation fromum like this being a tool conversationlike where you know you buy tool andit's going to magically solve all yourproblems uh or uh yeah you're going tospend a lot of money on on death rallyyou're not really sure where you'regoing to end up with to okay how can we get real about success and how do we howdo you turn this into a business successso now but I had the conversation withyou and then I was like oh this isapparently already a thing and then Istarted Googling oh there's lots ofpeople hiring for developer successum and that that's yeah I think this iswhat is coming and especially with withrecession and I think this is reallyimportant that we get real about thevalue of what we're doing and that we weget some outcomesso what does it mean in web 3 if it'sanything different cap so I think from for web3 I mean that'skind of what I talked about in the talkstoday like we need developers to comeonto the platform to make products thatare actually successful because that'sgoing to bring users and the more usersyou're bringing the more developers youbring so for me developer successum it's about it's not just about likehelping them be successful with theprotocol that you're building for themto get started on it's helping them besuccessful in a much in a much biggerway than that you know they're buildinga product they have an ultimate goal inmind and we want to bring them to that goal we don't just want to be like okayhere well here's how to use our protocolhere's some really good docs some reallygood content of our protocol we want tohelp them actually guide them intomaking their their product a successfulproduct and that's going to really justhelp with web3 especially just help theprotocol the underlying protocol becauseyou know if like new developers arecoming on and building on a blockchainand you know they're they're notsuccessful then nothing changes in theblush in because your that developerisn't making money for the blockchainyou know just having the project it'sthe users that are making the money for both the chin on for the dev so what weneed to do is just like make thisdeveloper successful so the underlyingprotocol is successful and I think thatapplies to just like traditional devrelas well because if more developers aresuccessfully using your products thenother developers are going to see thisproduct and be like yo okay that'sthat's obviously doing well it can scaleto the success let's give it a gogreat so Carla you worked in a companythat had to developer success Departmentat outsystems and there's a very Enterprise focused big money deals kindofcompany it wasn't named like that backthen butum but yeah pretty much I thinkfor me I see developers success kind ofway too facets right in one way is wereally want uh like we keep sayingEmpower developers to be successful uhbut now it's becoming more and moretrendy so the other side is looking atthis is more formal type of role and Idraw quite a few parallels between developer success and customer successand I think it's also kind of excitingto see that now we're starting to learnfrom other Industries and functions thathave been here for longerand it's for me I see it as more okaythere's maybe some strategic accountsthat do need a more High touchkind of supportwhere we want to make sure that thosedevelopers really are set for Successnot just being able to use the toolsthat we have but in achieving their own goals through using the tools so it goesa bit further than just success thanjust support it goes really in to enablethem to be successful at their own goalsso inject Jordan like if you're buildinga teamand you have a certain number of headcounthow do you factor develop a success intothat is is it a cross-functionalresponsibility that every person on theteam has or do you justslap someone down say you're thedeveloper success person now I generally don't I try to hiregeneralists I think that like all of thevarious spheres of devrelare equally important and people willgravitate towards the things that theyfind most fulfilling so like I try andhire people such that they find purposein their work because then they'rehappier and we have better teams but Ithink that developer successum I've always thought of as fittinglike either it is customer success andrebranded because an executive is likewell we are a developed Product Companyso you're there for developer success I read it on the internet it makes peoplefamous soum or or else it's part of in my mind orwas until I spoke with Carl last nightpart of developer experienceand this argument actually holds a lotof weight with me thatum it's actually a subset of that kindof customer success role that this isnot just about the fact that yourcustomers are developers it's also aboutthis kind ofum White Glove VIP focus of thedeveloper success role and even using that to kind of prune the community orwell prune makes sound like you'reoffing people but don't don't don'tprune them that way but kind of shapethe growthum you know like you you were trimming abush that is growing in you can controlthe growth of your community to grow itin the Direction You Want by activatingpotential advocates in your communityThrough developer success and that's thepart that's really interesting to me soin answer to your original questionaside from my um tirade sorryum I think like I I would be open to the idea of hiring someone who is entirelyfocused on developer success and I wouldalso expect it to be each team member'sresponsibilitylike I'm I'm stillnot sure we'vewhat is the day-to-day of someone doingdeveloper success what do you sit downand doumI I mentioned it jokingly earlier issupport with extra steps but it's kindof the way that I see it is that youknow that a developer whether they're in a community or a customer you know whatthey're trying to achieve you understandthe use case they're they're going forand you're just giving them that extrabit of a push to find the way to do itwiththe product you haveso for seven years now I've beenexplaining people that develop developerexperience is the universe of frictionand it's like it's a mind bomb it's likeokay so what does that really mean like okay let's let's go and make a frictionlock let's figure out what are theproblems and like like let's try to getrid of them but that implies thatthere's a single Journey really or or itreally reduces the amount of Journeysthat you're imagining and that it isreally about getting people to use yourtechnologywhere I believe that's what we're doinghere is not so much about getting peopleto use technology it's about giving thembuilding blocks to build experience tobuild digital experiences and um and those building blocks are notjust apis they're not just as the caseeither there might be really reallysimple things like a widget or a QR codeor something like QR codes you can justprint them out and put them in your inyour physical shop and start a digitaljourney and and too much we're so muchhooked like hang up on our you know wewe are building this thing fordevelopers that we're forgetting thatwhat the real goal is is to tofacilitate this this Automation and this this journey creation and to createbetter experiences for customers in theend and um so I think developer successrefocuses on how are we going to getpeople the right experience for theright person how can we resegment ourmarkets from like what we used tooriginally says like you have developersand you have business push on us to okayI've gotlike we have got one customer that haslike a bicyclewidget I don't know if it works I don't know how big a deal it is for them but Ifind it fascinating that they have likethey've been thinking about mobility andpeople selling bicycles and how they canhave a piece of that market and so inhow can you have personas forbut the kind of experiences that arebeing built rather than for the rolesthat they're playing in in your system Ithink that's that's I think the switchthat's happening and I think whatdeveloper success Engineers or whatever developer success people what they'll dois partially first just doing the joband helping people to get them tosuccess maybe look at the Enterprisepeople or you know the big accounts makesure that they're successful but alsostart looking for like what are kind ofa little bit of a product developmentwhat are really our our markets for ourIntegrations that we're doing and likeoutside of the digital space where youryour digital product is your product butlike The Wider world where theEnterprise world where the digital product is a complementary products toyour main thing uh how how do youactually get them to success and how howdo they get Roi on these Investmentsthat they've been makingforeignI have a thought about this actuallyaround that Roi thing and I I think it'sa conversation we have a lot in Denvercommunities but I I want a great up hereagain that like it's right there in thetitle the developer success is not aboutyouit's not about you not about like we're all gonna die someday rightwho'sexcited to have maximized shareholdervalue on their grade stuff or any not meright like we're not here for that we'rewe're all here in this room boundtogether by the fact that we want tomake more developers and we want to helpthose developers be successful in theworld rightforeignand so my point I guess is that if you keep that as the primary focus and youdefine success by what that developerdefines as success and you you carefullyuh Target those members of yourcommunity who are most active mostlikely to share the news you cangenerate this uh you knowself-sustaining exponential Networkeffect around your community and andthereby you probably will continue toget a paycheck but but if you make thepaycheck the goal I think you get itupside down a little bit pigeon wait wait for the michey so I I really like what you had tosay there my one question is how do youtranslate kind of Upstream thatdeveloper success is essentially amoving Target like a lot of times youknow people say oh we're so we'resetting our goals for the entire yearhere in January and we think developersuccess is X and you learn through theyear that it's also Y and Z like how doyou translate that to say hey c-level folksum this is not a static thing this is anorganic thing it's going to change as welearn more about our community as welearn more about the developers usingwhat we're giving to themyeah that's not just for Joe that's foreverybody yeah I um we were just talkingabout this outside a moment ago aboutlike goal setting every company who'slike so we're going to plan for uh 2035right now and we're gonna need thatstrategy deck tomorrow right and whatyou do in my experience is you pin to anoutcome we're going here where are we going we're gonna what does it look likewhen we have achieved developer successand ideally developer successum strategies activities those movebut you have a pretty easy case to maketo an executive team that you chose adifferent path because you decided thatthat the path to the goal was moresuccessful in this case we know that uhtalking to the rust Communitycounter-intuitively despite us being adevops company which should be focusedon the go language that our rust content is killing in and that developers outthere want to use rust and we can makethem successful using rust this way andit turns out those people are like superbig Advocates of our our apis in thecommunity so we get that Community superengaged we hold big rust parties wethrow Ferris around where's Ferris do wehave Ferris in the audience out herewhere's Lily we need Ferris up here butthe I think pinning it to the outcome isum has been my strategy but I'm verycurious to hear what you all thinkI thinkthat I completely agree with focusing on the the outcome but I think also we'rethere's two ways of of kind of measuringright you either fall into having morekind of financialumtargets and things that you want toachieve or you can focus and that's kindof where I would see developer successmore on the health and the satisfactionof the developers right and that'ssomething that will constantly changebecause the needs of the developers willevolve through time there you they startusing your product to do something and then that has evolved so it needs toevolve with it so I think that is a goodway to to measure it and to payattention to and to cater towards thatand it's also a strong argument becausethen you're looking at retention becauseif you're still fulfilling their needsdevelopers customers they will say whichmeans more ARR which then makes theexecs happydo you want to beginI I have to say I have something to pickin on that because[Music] umI think there's this concept of ofobliquity and maybe that's one for thebook clubum but that there are certain goals thatyou cannot achieve by trying to aim forthem directlylike for example trying to make a lot ofmoneylike it's going to land you in jail soso the way you make a lot of money is bydoing other things that happen to bevaluable for other people and then makeyou a lot of money so I think onequestion to ask is is developer success one of those things is that something weshould be aiming for directly do wereally need to aim for developerhappiness or this is maybe controversialmaybe that's some controversy that youasked for butum okay and I'm not saying we shouldmake people unhappy of course notunhappiness is probably an anti-goal butit's happiness really a goal likebecause this this is this is whatsometimes you see in offices like ohyeah we're gonna put in a kicker tableand we're going to do all this other stuff and you know yeah yeah maybe butreally is that really valuable for themso you're asking if we need free rangedevs or uhI I think it's it's this if you aretrying to Target directly making peoplehappy it's kind of like trying toit's with a lot of things like that alsolike in relationships if you try to geta relationship it's not going to work because people feel manipulated and andI think it's something similar couldalso be something similar here is thatif you're really trying to pamperdevelopers so that they're going tochoose your product that's necessarilyyou're manipulating them and you'retreating them not with respect so whatis the path that you can create for themto have business success so they can goto their manager because they're alsorisking to be fired in this economy howare you going to make them succeed in abusiness way and that that might mean like not giving them the latest fanciesttechnology but giving them a tool thatjust gives them a shortcut so they canget to the value much faster and and itdisconnects also with looking atdevelopers uh Laura sets thisinteresting thing from um from the devportal Awards and that's one of the keythings we've we're learning this yearfrom Deathpool Awards is that thisbusiness and developer Persona is merging and is becoming a technologistPersona and we've had a customer theytalked about business developers theycalled it but it's the same thing it'slike instead of looking at people likeoh yeah you're developers so we're goingto give you some developer tools oryou're you're a business person so we'regoing to talk to youum like can we give them like treatsboth of them with respect and not try totitillate them and not try to manipulatethem by either blah blah marketing BS or you know shiny toys but say like okayyou need a job you need to do your jobyou need to do it as fast as possiblehow are we going to help you do thatI think this is to me is the maindifference between just developerenablement and developer success becauseyou know any what we do in devrel ishelping developers code that isultimately what it comes down to becauseif we want developers to code that'skind of the end of itum developer success to me is all theother stuff outside of the code like devs want a code they can code they knowwhat they're coding and what they arelacking or things like you know likemarketing support or their businessgoals or just like things that are a lotoutside of coding and while I thinkdeveloper relations can own developersuccess because we are the people whoare talking to developers andunderstanding you know how to likeactually communicate goals and stuffwith them I don't actually see it as acomplete devrel responsibility at all Ithink I mean I myself and most Dev railsI know don't really know how to makelike a successful product actually successful I know how to make a productI know how to make a good product but Idon't know how to make it be used bypeople so I think the whole point ofdeveloper success is is to build on topof the code that they already havethat's our already your job and that'swhere I see it as new which is likesomething that you mentionedso interesting what you said it justmade me think that it really isobliquity because you said is it our jobto make it easier for people to code soif you believe your job is is to make iteasier for people to code you're goingto do stuff to make people code but there might be another way to get themto the end point that they need thattakes less efforts less money is betterto me it's easier to maintain and so onand so on that does not involve writingcustom code but as long as you believeyour job is to make it easier to codeyou're going to be making it easier tocode which might actually be the wrongthing and that's that's an example ofobliquityum there there is a question in theaudience yesyes now it's my chance waiting for 10 minutes no okay so um you when you whenyou open that panel you said that youwant to talk about how we put this intopractice right and um you have talked alot about like how to bring value to uhto developers but and and I really lovedthe question you knowgoing there and saywhat does it look like if you haveachieved developer success so I wouldreally love you to talk more about like the four of you sitting there what doesit look like if you have achieveddeveloper success and like let's say insix months from now how do you you knowhow do you measure it how do you saythis was our impact in developer successour developers are now more successfulwe have brought value to them so makingit more practical for us to really takeaway somesome stuff and ideas would be reallycool we were just enjoying talking wordsat you though we were we were very entertaining to usI think a lot of people like measurementis kind of beaten but but a lot ofpeople measure like um first deploy orlike first successful API request islike devrel did a thing and you'retalking about like awareness andacquisition in those steps and what Ithink if like you're practically goingto implement these things you make it apart of your regimen to understand wherethe community is getting stuck wherethey're dropping off do scroll trackingon your documentation know that people when they get to the fourth exercisestop proceeding with that page eightypercent of the time and change it anditerate a B test towards something whereyou get people to continue through thatand so you are you are going throughstack Overflow first thing in themorning all together hey this is aninteresting one I found you make it ateam activity everyone go through stackOverflow now and what did we learn todayclass about the the questions we saw onstack Overflow where are people gettingstuck stuck in our flow did they stopusing this tutorial at a specific pointand what can we do to change that so I see the developer success part of thatas the things that come after right wewe have the people they're using theproduct are they are they happy here arethey successful long term and I don'tthink that like like unhappy is kind ofpart of the developer brand I don'tthink that like developer happiness isis a thing you can measure in that waybut I do think that it matters that thatpeople maintain engagement this is aboutlike retaining the engagement thatyou're already generating with yourcommunity and amplifying your most um I guess like uh persistent voices in thecommunity this is my my take and I wantto hear you say words about it me yesyou specifically because you are verysmart on this thingum well I I agree with all of that and Ithink a way to kind of sum it up is Iwould look a churn you'd want flow turnbecause that means that you're stillproviding value developers are gettingvalue from the tool and if you're doingthen a good job you are if as like I wasmentioning as developers evolve so doesthe tool so does the value that you'reyou're giving and that means people don't leave they won't stop using it soI think that for me would be the themain one I'll go more meta what is theoriginal intent why they came to yourdeveloper programand did you fulfill that Foster thenthey were expecting to for it to befulfilledbecause if if they come for if they cometo like like for for Miroum what is it that that developerstrying to do are they building abusiness an app for their business or they're buildingum like a new product then if it's ifit's an app for their business thenprobably there's like a common use casethat that is hidden somewhere underthere can you identify what is thatcommon use case and can you make toolsthat make that much much easier thanwriting custom codeand that's all great but the questionwasthe opposite of going more meta yes itwas like what are the practical stepsare we taking them so cat if you've gotsomething to say on that I'd love to hear I mean I feel like what I'mlearning from from this panel is thedeveloper success is the same asdeveloper attainment but as the residentweb 3 person in web 3 is a very simplething to measure because what you wantfrom a protocol from developers who arebuilding on your platform are usersultimately because users get you likedirectly making money so the success fordevelopers is how many users thedeveloper has and that's a super simplething and I go into developer successfrom the blockchain standpoint becauseit's like okay we have hundreds ofdevelopers building on this platform butnone of them are actually building anything decent Let's help them do thatso for me it's very clear like from afrom a blockchain web 3 idea whatdeveloper success is what I feel likefrom this panel maybe it's the same asdeveloper retainment I feel like that'skind of what we're talking about so Iwould love to hear just from liketraditional web free what is thedifference between success and justkeeping themdo you mind if first we go to theaudience because I would love to I wouldlove to hear from people in the audienceI have one here who oh okay well so can we keep it focused on practical steps ifpossible yeah yeah so my question is alittle bit about because we're talkingabout developer success and I hear a lotlike how easy it is to onboard or howeasy it is to kind of continue thejourney but isn't developer successabout how easy me as a developer canachieve a goal yes that let's say theCEO comes to me like I want to buildthis application and then I can reallyshine to my boss later it's like I builtthis in two days so my journey couldhave been terrible to get there but the what I haveisn't that the success or what would yousay then but what does it take and andwhatever and I I want to give Brandon achance to answer that if that's okaybecause I know he's itching to speak I Ithink I can provide a few practicalexamples of thingsum one if your platform is growingexpanding you have new offerings youwant to make sure that developers thatcan get value out of those offeringsunderstand that they're coming and howto use them and how to implement theminto their current workflow so keeping developers apprised and that comes downto one of the things mentioned earlierMarket segmentation understand who'susing what and why if you don'tunderstand that you won't be able todefine success for them and provide thema journey that makes them successfulmoving forward another example would beonce you have those segments say okayhere's someone that's using this uh thisspecific product or part of our serviceand we can tell by the way they'reinteracting with it that there's acertain pattern or use case that maybethey haven't optimized if you canidentify that then you can go to them and say we noticed you're doing x y andZ but if you do this other thing you'llbe able to cut out these two steps andit'll save you money and that'ssomething also that thing comes todeveloper success it's not all aboutchurn and money it's about ongoing valueright so find ways to actually helppeople spend less money on your platformthat's extremely beneficial to them andthat's only something that you canreally do when you have that productinside so those are just a few thingsfrom my experience that are practicaland help make developers successful in the long run now we can chat more laterif you want to get more specific intothe types of products that you'rerepresenting but hopefully that helpsand sorry to steal the Thunder David soleave it at the middleso maybe I'm going to simplify it toomuch butdevelopers don't come to your platformto work through your process and yourright developers have a job and they'vebeen told to solve a problem and they'relooking for the fastest way to solve that problemthat's what they're there forand to me that's developer success canthey come and get the answers they wantto solve the problem that they havebecause their problem is not workingthrough your tutorialtheir problem is they've got theirengineering manager breathing down theirneck saying I need this solution to thisproblem by tomorrow or you're you knowin the case of if you work at Twitter oryou're out of here to tomorrow rightum so I mean maybe that's simplifying it too much but that's to me that'sdeveloper success am I allowingdevelopers to come to my platform andsolve their problem and move on ratherthan work through my documentation anddo all my tutorials like that's that'sall of that is if they have time rightthat's a board developera developer that's on my platform tosolve their problem is the one that Iwant to help because they're the ones that are going to come backI don't know that I want to solve thatperson's problemumI I thinkwe'll explain myself here okayI'm looking at like the Quick Serverestaurant management approach to doingdeveloper successif I come to use your platform todaybecause my engineer manager is yellingat me and I'm trying to solve animmediate problem I will solve theimmediate problem and maybe go awayforeverI think thatit's important if you have a developer Product Company to remember that manypeople still code for funthey still code for fun and they havetheir own goals and their own dreams ofwhat they are building and the platformsthat I end up uh building with at workor the things that I build with codethey very often collide with the weirdthing that I learned about at a Meetupthat I thought was fun and Iexperimented with and I came to playwith that thing and so for me success isnot like in and out it's a transactionalrelationship I'm not trying to build atransactional relationship with thedevelopers in our community I'm tryingto build long lasting friendships I want to be there to support them throughouttheir careers so I I think that thisfocus on like getting the engineer tostop or the the manager to stop yellingat me is maybe likeblinding us to the fact that developerscode for any number of reasons andfinding the ways that they are failingwith your products and platforms is is along-term exercise these are people thatyou're maintaining for for finalthoughts I disagreeokay but true contextually I think this is contextual so if you're buildingdeveloper tools and you're trying tolike what most of you are probably doingbecause devrel typically is is aboutbuilding developer tools you're rightbut I think that if you're if you haveif your API or your developer platformis a compliment to something else likeyou're selling services and you have anAPI then that's a different storybecause people don't come to like youknow people don't codeum like messaging apis for fun I thinkright not really they're they're doingit because you gotta be kidding me howmany people made silly twilioI think most of the time they want toget something done and if you can getout of the way and get it done faster Ithinkum so I think it really depends like ifyou're building a community and you'retrying to build a developer brand yesthen then you're right I think but ifyou're if you're like part of an Enterprise machine where they're justtrying to make this thing make moneybecause they've made this hugeinvestment I think it's a differentstory I'm gonna have to give the finalword to Carla and cats in closing soCarl did you have any thoughtsum I I understand uhlike the having or people either want itquickly or not but for me that goes thatwe all have different styles of learningand so the developers and there's somepeople that want to take the time to go through documentation there's peoplethat want to see a quick video there'speople that just want to ask someone andget a quick answer and I think then it'sour job to provide different stylesdifferent formats that is inclusive forall the different types of learning andgetting to the solution they needcut yeah so I think what I'm learning isa developer success doesn't need to beon every platformum I think for the example that you giveit's you know that that's a developerrelations job that's something that we're already doing we're trying to makeit super easy for someone to come inbuild on it and go away you know that iswhat we're doing but I think fordeveloper success if you if you wantyour developers to be successful in thelong run if they if they have more to dothan just integrating your your platforminto what they're doing then that's whendeveloper success is really importantbut I don't think it's something that wenecessarily need to use for every singleprotocol kind of language you saidokay well thank you and I Ithere's a rule inum drama that you can't put a box ofcookies on the table without mentioning before the end of the play so what's thedeal I've got chocolates who wantschocolates don't make me go home withthem so that's that's the deal so lookLet's uh thank our panel and uh it feelslike a conversation where we barelyscratched the service so yeah let'scarry it on so thank you very much[Applause], Developer Success Roundtable from DevRelCon Prague, Dev Rel, 01gtavr8h9npsh2xhn1je5rdyf.