Digital Sovereignty by Design  ## Metadata - Author: [[YouTube]] - Full Title: Digital Sovereignty by Design - Category: #articles - Document Tags: [[education]] [[migration]] [[sovereignty]] - Summary: Digital Sovereignty by Design - URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QugRaJMHGhA Okay. Uh this is Jack. Okay. He's going to talk first. >> I am. Uh I am. >> Beauty. >> Yeah. So um I think Matias told you, but uh for the last couple of years, we've we've we've found two or three topics that we thought were important and interesting and um talked about them for a few weeks and then went our separate ways and did talks around um the world I guess about that topic and then came back together. And this is the coming together of this talk about digital sovereignty. Um and um I have been doing this in um in German mostly which has been fun. And I've had the opportunity to do it from uh for for agency audiences and for developer audiences specifically. So so I'd love to know a few things as we get going. Um who here is European? What does it count if you live in Europe but you happen to have a US passport? Scared to hell. European that's my category too. >> I have a European passport as well. Um who's not European? Not European. Okay. Who's a developer? Who is an agency owner runner something? And who doesn't fit into any of those work categories yet? And what do what do you you're a Drupal core developer and >> project manager. project manager. >> I'm a medical educator. >> A medical educator. That's really But see, this is super important for the >> um >> and y >> hockey coach. >> I'm coach. >> Yeah. And hockey coach, right? >> Yeah. Okay. I'm a director in a software company that uh provides uh analytics and we do >> I do integrations to platforms like Drupal other stuff. >> Okay. >> So what he says is he works for a company that has a a beer brewery and >> Right. Okay. And you work with agencies and you're very concerned of and if you do digital integrations then digital sovereignty European data that's all very important to you. That's what we do in Pivic Pro. It's a privacy based analy piv. >> Nice. Okay. So, um I was the uh 18th uh employee at Aqua. Um and I left when there were about 900 of us and for the last um uh nine years now I have run open strategy partners which is a marketing agency. I am a marketer and um what we don't do at OSP is bingo. Um um as fun as it is um we work with B2B technology and complex other complex solutions um to connect the smart stuff that you build with the people who need to understand it and and spend money on it. That's that's mostly that translation is what we do. Um and a lot of what we do is awesome awesome which is open source marketing. Um so we really try to use open-source um marketing tools and other tools when we can when it makes sense. Um we uh contribute our tools and knowledge back into the world. Um and we participate in open source communities. So that's um several of the things I'm doing today. And I'm super proud. Yesterday a Drupal agency developer came up to me and said, "I am using your marketing tools that you have on GitHub and then I built this other cool thing on top of it." And the thing that he built was so cool. So I'm super proud. I think awesome is really in the house today. Um, totally thrilling. Please meet my friend Matias. Um, >> yeah. And I have a different design to my slides, of course. >> And he's trying to tell say that I'm corporate and boring, but >> yeah. And and I'm I'm keeping to the digital sovereignty by design title because I find that's so much better. This is me. I'm so much better. Uh I'm from outside Norway in outside Oslo in Norway. I'm called Matias Bless. I have a wife and two kids. I started using Typo 3 in 2003 and I'm now the Typo 3 ambassador. Uh so you can call me your excellency if you want to. Uh but now you're all sitting and you know asking really deep questions here about what you know is typo 3 well typo 3 is click or you click yeah it's a PHP based CMS never heard about anything like that it's free and open source never heard about anything like that it's communitydriven uh it's backed by an association it's got a long history we're 27 years this year but if you look you know it might sound like Drupal Well, and we are actually quite quite similar if you look below the surface. And let's look at Drupal version 10. I think this is actually 11. So title Drupal version 11 has 64 dependencies to the core. Type 3 version 12 or 13 has 100 dependencies. But if you look at those dependencies, we actually have 38 in common. We're a bit disagreeing about what should be in the core and not when it comes to dependencies. But >> hello Symphony. >> Yeah, 66% of Drupal is typo 3 or >> vice versa kind of. Um >> or 30% of typo 3 is half of Drupal, right? Wow. >> Yeah. >> So, welcome to the typo 3 community everyone. >> Yeah. Um now we're back on Jam and me. Um and that's how it's going to go. And you already asked who we are. So yeah. >> So >> we're going to do three acts today. think we're going to do the beginning, the conflict, and the resolution, >> right? Um actually, in this in this hero's journey that we're about to go on, um both of the first two acts are to establish urgency and um relevance. And then >> it's not a tragedy, it's a drama. >> I want I'm I'm I I want to give hope as well. Um basically what we're saying is um if if if we're not if we're not concerned about our digital sovereignty as Europeans now, right? And this talk is from a European perspective. But but um it can it can be from any perspective, African, national, regional, American, Canadian, whatever. It still applies. It just happens that we're here and this is our focus. So please forgive us afterward. >> Yes. Um and and and and we have the tools and the thinking and the knowledge and the communities to make a difference. Now um and we want to present you then in the third act some of the perspectives about how to think about agency business, how to think about a developer career. Um not just in terms of delivering code, not just in terms of of building open source stuff. Yeah. So act one, if not now, then when? Um Matias. >> Yeah. Um we've fallen into the convenience trap. uh and uh we're in a situation right now that is kind of difficult. Example one or exhibit one uh Danish municipalities uh they have libraries libraries we can all agree that libraries are nonprofit right they lend out books and you know they don't sell them and they've been using software from Microsoft for a long time and well that was a very good choice wasn't it because at one point Microsoft decided that well we don't see libraries as nonprofit anymore more. Um, so you have to pay the full forprofit price and it was like millions extra in costs. So that's like a million extra in costs is a million less books. >> So So Microsoft did a bait and switch and let the libraries come in at the nonprofit cost for years and years and then said and once they were completely dependent on the system, they said by the way it costs four times as much, five times as much. >> We have no other choice. >> Yeah. Yeah. No, no, we have to uh in Oslo where I live just outside of Oslo they have new buses uh electric buses very nice buses and very quiet but somebody asked the question of you know these are from China can someone turn them off and on and yeah the answer is actually yes and can that happen you know is that literally something that companies do uh yes three hello it have you tried turning your bus off and Yeah. Um, when Russia invaded Ukraine, a lot of tractors, John Deere tractors, disappeared from that part of Ukraine and appeared again in other parts of Russia or in parts of Russia, I mean. Um, but John Deere uh, being friendly to the Ukrainians turned off all of the tractors remotely, right? So yes, this can actually happen and there is a big open- source movement in uh changing John Deere tractor software so that you as a farmer don't have to use John Deere the mechanics. >> This is a this is a this is a using this power for good example but um uh uh John Deere is the uh the the the >> Microsoft of farming >> of tractors. Yeah. Um, so the right to repair movement in the US focuses a lot on this because John Deere told farmers they don't own these things. They're just renting them and and and they're not allowed to fix them. They're not allowed to buy parts and not allowed to modify them. And that's, you know, what is farming if not if not fixing problems on the fly, right? So >> tractor as a service. >> Yeah. Tractor tractor as a service. Um, so I contend we contend um digital if you want to be digital sovereign uh there are five pillars. You need to have access and control of what you do. Um, you need to own your own data. You need to be independent, autonomous. Um, you need to have transparency to have any chance of being secure. Um, and you need strong local ecosystems. Welcome to a community event. Um, uh, we are very happy to give people this slide deck afterwards. Um, we're also, uh, very happy to give you a more detailed handout. Um, >> this presentation has a red lanyard, so you have to download it after. >> No, no, please, please take photos, but we're very, very happy to pass this off. >> Yeah, we're very happy for photos. >> Um, and if you're a developer like looking within this overall picture, um, you really need to own and control your own code, the infrastructure that you're running on and the location, encryption, etc. of your data. Um, we couldn't figure out the antonyym of vendor vendor lockin. So, so we call you we say that you need vendor unlock in um >> and I'm sorry all developers that should have been a type uh safe uh equals equals equals there but yeah >> it's not a developer >> right and and we need to use we need to use European text stacks we need to use um open source software free and open source software and we need to strengthen our own local communities um now as True as all this is, um, as individuals, as actors within organizations um, and as governments, we have limited control of this stuff. And, uh, another angle of this talk today is pragmatism. um large rich governments can come closest probably to being digitally sovereign and digitally autonomous but as you will see they're prone to making um bad choices from this perspective or maybe they felt they didn't have other choices. Um we can only be as sovereign and as autonomous as the environment around us as the regulatory environment as the privacy laws etc allows and within our societies our countries we can also only be as sovereign as the companies and organizations and and and and the software products allow us to be right so as individuals we have some power and some choice um but I think the good and interesting news is that as tech teams team as developers, as integrators, as agency owners, we can influence better choices over time. Um, so in 2025, um, the convenience trap, uh, the convenience trap, um, became the year that dependencies, um, became dangerous. social media suddenly out of the blue changing their um privacy and obscenity and and and u whatever speech policies um API costs going through the roof all sorts of crazy trade wars um dependencies are really really tricky this year right and we we need to recognize that um whatever we said and thought along the way about our extremist friends right um Richard was right um and here is a pregnant example as they say. Yeah. Um Yeah. Uh what happens when politics uh take over uh in deciding over your data or your services or stuff like that? This I mean this is um >> the ICC stands for the International Criminal Court. >> Yes. Um, and they they are they are looking into people who might be criminals. They don't have to be criminals, but they might be criminals. So, they have to look into them like the police, right? Uh, you can still be acquitted or not. But, uh, it turns out that it's now possible for the United States to disagree with just the court looking into something so much that they can tell Microsoft to turn off a judge's email account in Europe. because they're looking into something that they don't like. Right. >> And and and this is real. >> Yes. >> Um this just happened. Yeah. And I mean the EU has worked so much on trying to figure out how to exchange data with the United States. It's really hard. It turned out this is the third time they're trying. Uh are we going to have a sh three? uh you know the lawyer who's been trying all of these cases about is it really safe well I think you know if you go one slide back Jan what it says there is uh the adequacy decision follow the adoption of executive order on blah blah blah blah blah this is the sort of presidential order in the US that is the whole basis for the EU's data exchange uh with the US presidential orders we've learned recently are >> temporary nonbinding things. >> Yes. Uh so they can at any point be turned off or disregarded or whatever. And and that is I mean that is actually what we build our data exchange with the US on at the moment. Hey that's that's digital sovereignty. uh give something away with a temporary. Um yeah. And >> so this is Denmark a year ago. >> Yes. And this is uh the the municipalities rated by uh how much money they spent on um Microsoft licenses uh over the last 6 years. Uh and you have like it ranges from almost nothing to more than 5.3 million euros per uh municipality. I don't know, you know, the topmost one there, but just, you know, if you add all of those together, it's a pretty high number for just paying for licenses, >> right? And that's a a similar dependency to a company that shuts down email accounts at the International Criminal Court. >> Yeah. And I mean, you could have written a lot of open source code for that money, right? >> Here's a super fun map. >> Oh, this is super fun. Here's a QR code. There's actually a map that you can go and search in and see uh the municipalities around Europe and how much uh they use uh domestic servers or Microsoft or whatever. I mean the Dutch really love orange but I think orange Netherlands map is not maybe what they should want. Yes. Uh and you can see around there there are a lot of good domestic server stuff. There's some Q server stuff. But yeah, this is like the Nordics where I come from and Norway does have a lot more municipalities than that. But anyway, >> yeah, but there's a there's a huge Microsoft dependency. >> Yeah. >> There. And um another version of this map shows that Germany is is very very strongly focused on on local locally hosted local servers. Um, and it's really amazing when you look when you look at that border um with with the Dutch and it's just like full Microsoft versus almost fully local. It's an interesting choice. >> Yeah. There's also some black spots in Spain that you shouldn't like Denmark has some black spots about. Yeah. Uh, we're making ourselves dependent on things that we know that we cannot control. So, yes, it's getting really dark in here and it's going to get darker for a little while until we try to turn the tide and talk about more positive things here. And before Yep, you get the next one in one second. But, um, our idea here is to is to work locally and work with our technologies for ourselves. And, um, >> we have a couple of good sites about that too actually. >> Yeah. and and the the interesting and terrifying one of part of being alive in 2025 is is is worrying about these terrible old trends that seem to be back. Um and if we're talking about work with our people in our countries, for our citizens, for our friends and not with those Americans or with >> Norwegian data for Norwegians, >> right? Exactly. Uh, is that where we're going? >> We've been asked this. We've been asked this, right? >> We have a superpower. >> Yeah. >> Open source is not isolationism and nationalism. It's a fact. You cannot do isolationism with open source. It doesn't work that way. Open source actually enables independence and cooperation. It's possible to do independence and cooperation at the same time. Wow. Incredible. So, we're not the AFD in Germany. Uh, actually, we're doing other things. We're We might look like it sometimes, but we that's important to underscore when we talk about open source and digital sovereignty. It's not about hiding away. It's about finding ways that you can cooperate that still leaves you independent in making decisions. >> So, it's a it's a it's a it's a very good example of enlightened self-interest, right? Help our helping ourselves helps all of us and anyone who wants to come along. So, um I think more and more of us in Europe are aware of this. Um we have the tools. Um and and the time is certainly upon us. So, so, so if not, if not now, when? If not here in Europe, um, then when? We have the tools. Um, and when we foster transparency, we foster our own autonomy. When I know how you solve your problem in Spain, I can solve my problem in Germany. when when I understand how to integrate that thing that you did in Denmark with open source software, I can do something similar to solve my own problems, we're all better off. The stronger our communities, the more we know each other and exchange knowledge with each other, the more resilient we are in crisis times. The more we build things for ourselves, the less they can be taken away from us later, right? So, and building on open source and building with open standards makes us more independent. Um uh this applies in the security world but all over the place um the more we have under the under our control and under our observable um uh proof the better off we are. Um there is there are so many more examples. Um I've been doing as I said I've been doing this talk in German in Germany. Um, the German federal government as of January 2025 in made government site builder 11 the official website building tool for all German federal government websites. >> And let me say one thing about that. I mean, it's not like they're only focusing on typo 3 here too. They're actually looking for community-based open- source projects because they did proprietary then they moved to open source without community and that failed because you actually need community in order to get things to work. You need the civil society factor in order to get a society to work just like with open source. So the German federal government understood something by making mistakes and I think you know that's really worth something. >> Yeah. And typo3 typo 3 is is is enabling a number of different governments and political parties around the world was fantastic. We all know how present Drupal is in Brussels in the EU institutions. There are literally thousands of websites. Um and Drupal is behind all sorts of uh uh uh public good uh public institution, university education, etc. like um which we have in common with the type of free community. So so there's a lot going on that that can give us hope and and a really really good base to build on. >> Yeah. And it turns out there is actually someone as student intern at an agency in Berlin. >> Anastasia Schmidt. Yes. She wrote a thesis about how to actually calculate and measure the digital sovereignty of a customer or company or or whatever. And it's really really cool. You can read more about it if you scan the QR code and all of those things if you download the slides afterwards. But really trying to move from the red side here and over to the green side. But also looking at how exactly sovereign are you within the solutions because there are also times when you cannot be 100% digitally sovereign as a company either. Yes. Um so the um the more we do together and the more we share with with each other I think the the the better off we are. Now this is a lot of words but um as an individual developer, project manager, what have you. Um choosing an open source tool when it makes sense um can lead to better team standards, can lead to your customers um using that tool. Um it can it can make a small positive difference. Um you can contribute to open source projects um in so many ways. You can influence the project direction. You can make the project better. Anyone who uses the project benefits from that. Um and as you build expertise in this kind of things, you can influence your company and and your or your wherever it is your organization um to take steps in the right direction. Right? And over time that strengthens European open source projects and gives us strong European ecosystems, technology ecosystems, right? We can build our communities. We can have independent digital infrastructure, exchange knowledge and and have self-determination in our own digital future and like but it starts with hey I'm going to install Rocket Chat. I'm gonna install Drupal. I'm going to whatever it is. Um, so and a lot of this, and I think we have to say it over and over today, the the the um none of us are going to get to perfection. None of us are going to get to absolute anything. Um, but hey, Jan, this this also sounds a bit like, you know, the security thing. And I think that's also where the title of this talk comes from. You know, we have security by design. Nothing is ever secure, right? But digital sovereignty by design is also a way of working where we can get closer at least. Yeah. >> So, so and and I and I want to and I want to give a proof point now about um whether our individual choices and and this whether this stuff floats up and and whether it makes any difference. And >> I love this. Yeah, it's really I was in Edinburgh at a really interesting government um open source conference in the in the early teens and I met someone from the British Cabinet Office. Um and in 200 see and I want to go I want to move away from this mic. Give me the phone. In 2010, the ICT supplier map, the people selling um um technology projects to the UK government were pretty much mapped on exactly that's London and Reading and and Brighton and whatever there is is is is in between. And if you look at those whatever it is 12 dots, you can map it exactly on to IBM, HP, Microsoft, Google and so on. Those are all the players. And you imagine a country of 65 plus or minus million people how much they spend on IT, on digital technology, on all that stuff. It's a tremendous amount of money. And around this time, the UK cabinet had a really really cool idea. And um they did a whole bunch of things, but um two or three of them are are are relevant to our story. One of them was they said um projects for under a million pounds total project budget should be accessible to smaller companies and they created a bidding process around that where smaller companies could bid on government IT work. Second they said at equal functionality there is a preference for open source solutions. Okay. So all of a sudden we go from spending literally billions and sending it mostly out of the country, right? There's people work there. I mean there's jobs and whatever, but billions of money uh of of money of pounds flowing away to Seattle and and wherever, right? So they ran a pilot. It looked pretty good. A mere four years later, that was the IT supplier method, right? And this is this is simple, small, very idealistic choices that turned into a completely different economic reality. All of those projects, right? Let's say let's say all of the big players are still getting big contracts, right? But look how much money flows back into local economies. Look how many people can employ um UK citizens to pay their taxes to keep the money in that country and make that country better. Right? It's an unbelievable impact, right? And um the comedy of this slide, Stella, look at the Republic of Ireland. At least five of those projects went to Europe. Um so we win as well. Um but I think this is just the most glorious example of of of this sort of idealism turning into into societal reality. So there's some hope for us. >> And we're turning German now. just not this. But >> are we? No. Yeah. But but oh yeah, there's a >> as well is also a show of resilience. This is a chair with 100 legs, right? It's going to take some time to cut them off. This is a good way of building up stability. This is a good way of managing uh distributed software. Uh wow. So Viking friend from Denmark, what happened in June in Denmark? Uh, a lot of different things happened, but I don't know exactly what you mean. Uh, >> the Danish government in June this year said, "Oh, by the way, Microsoft, you are out >> by the end of the year." >> Yeah. They said actually that last year, but uh in June it was hope. >> Yeah. So, they said within 6 months We're out, right? And going from multi-millions to local resilience and other choices. That is awesome. It's really >> digital affairs >> not being friends with Microsoft anymore. So sweet. >> So we are the people who have the power to make our choices to influence the choices on our teams and in our co companies and not so on and so on and so on. And there isn't a binary choice between bad and perfect, right, Matias? >> No. And I mean that that's going to be hard. I mean if you're a developer who always makes everything perfect, you're not going to deliver a product. Um, we know that >> and the same thing if you were a de developer who always delivers bad but yeah has to be pragmatic. >> Yeah. >> Keep going Matias. >> Yes. >> I love this. This is your slide. It's people in the staircase. >> Oh. Yeah. >> So from this perspective we can become sovereignty champions. So uh sovereign sovereignty influencers, right? Um, you're no longer an agency or developer that uses open source. You are transforming, if you're a coder, to becoming an independence architect. We're now going to have a game show here in this room. Digital sovereignty, hot or not. Woohoo. >> So, I write code and solve technical problems, hot or not. Anyone? >> Hot or not? >> No, because I build Europe's independence. >> Oo. Hot or not? Yes. And then if you're an agency, you can be a sovereignty partner, right? >> We build websites with open source tools. That's our sales pitch. >> No. We enable your digital independence. Fantastic. I love it. Thank you for participating in this very brief game show and uh >> we're all winners with um with >> 2025 being the year that it is for agency owners, right? Um those of you providing websites and integrations and other services can start a different conversation, right? Or you can add an entire sort of extra wing to your business model and you can audit your client's dependencies and you can give risk evaluations and um give them a roadmap for improvement and those are really highly valuable um highly valuable services, right? and and every single one of those um can lead to really really I mean if you run the audits and give them that report there's a very clear upsell path for your um you as a sovereignty partner to um to keep helping them and and at the developer level there's the same set of services that you can offer internally externally whatever and I think that these are are incredibly promising and important bits of work to be done >> yeah so uh like with all uh business related books We have uh words consisting of letters that is the first letter of every word in the advice that we're giving you right so that you can know that if you're a coder think camel contribute support open-source sovereignty projects right Drupal code for Drupal wonderful you can audit you can evaluate current tech dependencies is there a better way of doing this you can migrate you gradually Replace evil lockdown tools with happy open- source tools. You can affect you advocate sovereign choices in your organization. Talk to your boss or your boss's boss or anyone. Elevator pitches. Here we come. And you can also learn. You can master European sovereign alternatives. Find the open source solution for the co-source solutions that you're using today. Camel everyone. So, as much as >> Sovereignty, >> as much as I love this slide, um, >> it's all Matias's. And um, and please, please give him applause also for for for misspelling effect to make the joke work. Thank you very much, Matias. Um the the next one I find um even more intriguingly um embarrassing, but um well I I actually looked it up in Mariam Webster uh which is a descriptive dictionary. So it tells us what people actually spell. Um so ammo uh is if you're an agency you uh you have to assess the current sovereignty of the frameworks that you're using. Um you have to migrate to the sovereign alternatives. You have to educate your client. I mean this is really important the educate part because you become a partner for your agency that doesn't just provide tools but you become the agency the service provider that helps your agency or your client be digitally sovereign beyond just the one product or whatever you deliver but the website is the hub of a lot of business. So this is a good place to start. You have to build local expertise and support networks and you have to advocate. You have to be there and talk about why open source should be chosen. You can't just sit there and sell your product as if it's anything. What you're selling is not just Drupal. You're selling digital sovereignty solutions in your agency. >> Yes. >> Ama. >> Yes. um uh the Drupal Association published a blog um I think it was last year um within the last year um with a model for an open- source focused RFP model and I think that it's um well I wrote it with my team but um apart from that I think it's a really good starting point to add um so so it shows how to how to put things that are important to open source into an RFP process. Um, and I think that it's would be a super cool idea to take that as a starting point to add digital sovereignty to the RFP as well. >> Absolutely. And remember, be an amoeba with camels. Camel based amoeba business. >> There's a there's a there's a waterborn disease in there somewhere, but um, >> right. So, >> it gets into your brain. That's the thing. >> Yeah. So um for all of us and there's some things that are written wrong here on the tech on the on the sides but um >> yep I I accept I accept responsibility. Um we can be stronger partners and provide more value to our clients by helping them navigate this world and and understand the consequences and the choices that they have. Um, and I think that we can generate work for ourselves and I think that we can generate higher value, higher ticket, longer term, more sustainable work. Um, and we cut these slides out of the presentations. Um, but I'm using the penultimate version, it looks like. So, um, don't just sell your open-source CMS. Evangelize and help people do better. Um, >> most stupid thing you've ever done is sell Drupal. sell only Drupal. You have to sell Drupal and what Drupal comes with. Right? So coming well well well under the time mark um I think it we've established that um through no ill will and and through a lot of convenience and easier choices um we've the convenience trap has closed around us and we're seeing real examples of why we need to rethink those choices and if we're able um we should probably do so. Um, we've also talked about how um I think Europe and our European ideals and morals and our right to privacy and autonomy here which many other countries and don't have right we have that here and we should act on it and we should make sure that we defend it. So I think it's up to us to take care of ourselves. I think we we should not rely on other people. The amazing thing is that we have tools to do all of this with which we can strengthen and help ourselves and others at the same time. And this isn't like open source where nobody talks about open source. Nobody knows what open source is. Digital sovereignty is in the vogue at the moment. It's actually a wave that you can catch now. And this is a business opportunity. Yes. business opportunity >> for sure. Right. >> I can see money there. >> Anytime anytime that you're advocating for open source solutions or for supporting open source sustainability, anytime you're doing that and you're making a moral case, it's the right thing to do. We did so much for you. You inherit all the code from the last 25 years. All of that is true. But there's a business opportunity >> and real. But if you don't make a business case, most people are not going to care and not going to take action and not going to donate and not going to do it out of the goodness of their hearts. But there are practical realities that tell us that having control of our data, that being digitally sovereign is better for us, for our businesses, for our governments, for our countries. So um and and that those are not moral airy fairy choices. their their their hard reality, right? And hey, open source uh is more economically efficient, gives us more jobs, helps us profit better. I mean, there are a lot of good reasons. So, supporting democracy koda to this. I gave the first version of this talk in in May or June at an outdoor openair tech conference, which was super awesome. I'd never been to one before. >> And he means koda as in the musical term, not the coder. >> Oh, yes. the kod of the the the the tale of this presentation. Um, and I gave the first version of this and it was way less pretty and it was way more words. Um, and a few weeks later on LinkedIn, this thing appeared and Grigo Ventlan said, "Hey, I saw Jam do his digital sovereignty talk and I've just gotten rid of Dropbox and whatever it says up there and I've installed my own NexCloud, which I've been meaning to do this whole time." And hey, he reminded me and just like I said when I found out that someone is using my open source repositories to build cool marketing tools um like like doing this Matias and I we made the world that much better you know we inspired go to do that and I'm so it's I mean it's the best outcome I can think of really for >> you should do this too. You get 20 comments. I don't have a discount code for Nexug, but anyway. So, um, with one minute to spare, thank you very much for coming. >> Lisa, do you have a question? >> I have a comment, a very strong >> Oh, she has a comment about about like something I'm sure that we I'm sure we have all chat to PT, some of us probably from the very beginning. And then as time is going on, we have started to get a little bit like what the hell's in there and I don't know what's in there. So I tried to recently delete my chat GPT accounts. I first deleted all the chat history. I told you about this. I deleted the chat history. I mean it's probably 2 years worth of history. Think about all the things we talk about like our health, our finances, whatever. And then I tried to delete my account and I got a notification that I'm not allowed to delete my account because it is being withheld as evidence in this lawsuit from the New York Times. What you think when you think about your data sovereignty my data from Jesse and not only that the law that made this possible has now affected every other online thing. So every single I mean we all know we all know that everything you put on the internet is is that now there's a law that supports everything is now withheld. Be very careful. I can't believe my chat PT history. I have no idea what's in there. I have heard Venice.ai AI is uh it's certainly a more um it's a more mature building maybe but >> um speaking on behalf of a a client of mine um Amazai is offering private and digitally sovereign AI and they're offering a super cool free trial right now and Mit from Amazai really wants to talk with people about what you want to build with it because he's got resources to build demos and features to help get Drupal cool AI moving. Um, he's got a a free testing tool um and a whole bunch of of real privacy guarantees and hosted in Switzerland and all the all the stuff you want. So, thank you, Lisa. Very good point. Amazing. >> I'm terrified. I'm freaking terrified of the current planet right now. >> Yeah, I usually have a slide about that in my own presentation. Can I do that? >> Tell them. The lawsuit was actually about plagiarism that the New York Times was doing or plagiarism but the end result was that the law affects everything. >> So the the thing is with these AIs as well that because they're not open source and they don't put their sources either we have a problem today. The example I go to is the King James Bible. Uh because it's a very obvious thing that most people consider pretty open and they can use it for training AIs if they want to. I don't know if anyone wants to train AIS on uh the Bible, but I guess some do. The thing is, if you're if you happen to be in Britain and you use an AI that's based on um or that's trained with the King James Bible, it's not free. It's not under copyright. It's crown copyright still. Why is it 450? It's like super old, but it's still under copyright. So you might suddenly unwittingly output copyrighted material. >> Yeah, I did not put anything. They just keep everybody's check now. Everybody, if you're using chatp, go ahead and try and delete your account. >> Yeah. So good warning. >> Yeah, >> positive note to finish on. >> And the OSI has an open source AI definition and it's >> another question. I got a question. >> Less of a question and more of a short rant because this is an open source event by an open source community and we're using a closed source software to run the app for this event to run the event timetable which actually if you use Firefox you can't use the app and we've been commenting about this for years and we can't get out of this trap of what's going to be fixed next year. Well, >> and it doesn't maintain its state and it doesn't link to my calendar. >> And and if maybe somebody could think of a software that could do this, maybe I'm sure there's >> I I I heard I was at the meeting with the group association board and they said this is going to fix next year. So >> you could get chat G GPT to vibe code you a new scheduling app. Yeah. >> But it is like I mean there is a level of lock in for everyone and we have to of course know >> where to step right. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But um yes, very fair point. Um so um Matias and I are both relatively easy to find online. We have a more in-depth version of this. We're working on a version of the presentation for from the enduser perspective and we're looking for an opportunity to create one um from the government perspective. But um we've been collecting all of this for for for a while now and I think I think we want to write about it in public now that we've put it all together. Yeah, it's super fun >> to put up a Thank, Digital Sovereignty by Design, YouTube, 01k9ytc8hghcvh9k04jnc2w047.