Does God Bring Heaven to Earth?  ## Metadata - Author: [[YouTube]] - Full Title: Does God Bring Heaven to Earth? - Category: #articles - Document Tags: [[video-notes]] [[youtube]] - Summary: Does God Bring Heaven to Earth? - URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF5knxgVNZk welcome to curiously Caitlyn where we try to make theology make sense each week we will hear a kid question about God theology or the Bible and find a scholar who can answer it we have gotten so many wonderful questions from you all don't forget that you can go to Holy post.com curiously and leave us a question from a kid in your life or you can leave a story about a Sunday school mishap or a kid doing something funny in church for us to add to our great moments in Sunday school history segment I don't know that doesn't make any [Music] sense Mike Erie thanks for joining me today Caitlyn I'm so excited I love it GL this is Mike Erie he's the teaching pastor at Journey Church in Brentwood Tennessee the author of books and the host of the boxology podcast I have a son named Seth who you have met before he's 15 he has Down syndrome when I told him I was recording with you today he was very very excited he knows who you are he's a huge fan that's so sweet and no he really does he really does it's sky and Phil first name only yeah and then Caitlyn's chess and it's one word and so just yeah that's so great so you're a big deal so thank you for inviting me this is awesome yeah let's talk about heaven thanks so much for being here yeah let's hear our kid question today hi Kaitlyn does guy bring Heaven to Earth oh is that not just the sweetest it would not be the same if we didn't get to hear it oh my goodness no it's so much better that you hear it yes yes and and I've haven't heard maybe that's the Hebrew pronunciation of of Earth um that's just amazing so so I when I'm talking to folks that don't have a huge theological background I like to tell stories in trying to answer the the question as we do you know this you're talking to kids all the time what a great idea for a podcast by the way thanks so first of all how insightful a question yeah is this because I I always assumed it was the opposite that that what God was doing was trying to get us into heaven yeah instead of bringing Heaven to Earth so the fact the fact that this little one already framed the question that way is so far above Church yeah seriously that's that's incredible theology absolutely so the answer is yes but but why and how is a bigger answer let's do a little story Caitlyn and clarify let's talk so so one of the things that surprised me is that the the Bible opens one of the first things the Bible says that God created the heavens and the Earth and when I heard the word Heaven I thought that meant the place you go when you die remember back to just last episode with Dr Matthew Emerson when he talked about the place of the Dead where we go when we die that's important context for this because what Mike is talking about here is different he's explaining how this word Heaven is something kind of different and definitely bigger than just where we go when we die but that question of where we go when we die matters too if you've accepted Jesus and Jesus has accepted you you get to this place after you die where you get to spend forever with Jesus and Hallelujah that sounds amazing but I realized that that probably wasn't what the the writer of of the first book of the Bible was thinking the word just means the sky or what's up there and so Heaven just meant God created what's down here the land and what's up there the sky and God's dream was that heaven the sky and the land would live together that God would live with his people in this place called Eden and in the middle of Eden there was going to be a garden where God was going to live with with human beings forever and they were going to live uh under the the joy and Delight of God's good world world but as you probably already know young one um that's not how it turned out and so there was some sort of rupture the Bible doesn't give us a lot of details about how it worked but there's some sort of rupture Between Heaven and Earth so that later on in the story they're spoken of as almost separate Realms like God lives in the highest heaven but the Earth he's given to human beings the heaven became to mean more than just Sky it meant it became a picture of God's power and authority and rule over everything and and the phrase the Earth became a picture of human beings doing their thing often in opposition to what God wanted for them and so later on in the story we read that God is still loving people and he's still creating places on the Earth where he visits people and he walks with people uh sometimes those are called temples or Tabernacles it was a place where the heaven space God's space would overlap with the Earth's space and human space and and you would go in and um and you could know that God loves you and that God forgives you uh and that God is still with you and your people and it was a beautiful beautiful picture but it wasn't what God designed in the beginning in the beginning God wanted to just be with his people with no rupture or space between them at all and so when Jesus shows up up when Jesus comes to Earth Jesus one of his big announcements was that the kingdom of the heavens is right here next to you and that is a very Jewish way of saying that Eden picture of God dwelling with human beings that that the picture of the temple in Jerusalem where God dwelt with Israel that picture has now come true in the person of Jesus that Jesus literally brought Heaven to Earth he showed us what God is like and and how the Reign and Rule of God works and how beautiful God is he showed us what god um desires for human beings and how they treat each other and so in Jesus Heaven and Earth sort of overlapped perfectly and then Jesus says this crazy thing where Jesus says okay I'm going to die for everybody's sins but it's actually not a bad thing that I'm leaving because what I'm going to do is I'm going to send my spirit to live in you and you now will be the place where Heaven and Earth sort of overlap um and and one of the one of the New Testament writers Paul said literally to the church you are the Temple of the holy spirit so you have the Garden of Eden where God dwelt with people but then you have some sort of rupture and you have a temple a physical Temple space where God dwelt with people but there were rituals and Priests and offerings you had to do but then Jesus shows up and he's right here Heaven is right here in a person but just one person and 2,000 years ago in one little piece of land but then Jesus looks at his disciples and he says listen the great gift I'm going to give you is my presence with you through my spirit and you will become a temple space where Heaven and Earth overlap and what you will do is you will remind everybody how great I am and how ful I am and you will let them know I'm coming back because the end of the story little one starts like or or starts like the beginning of the story it's almost exactly the same God renews Heaven and Earth he re he recreates it he doesn't scrap it and start over what he does is he renews everything and then the Bible ends with this beautiful picture of God dwelling with people in a temple that covers the whole of the earth and so to your question does God bring Heaven to Earth yes he has yes he is and yes he will and so we get to live in this beautiful picture where it's not all done yet there's still there's still room for Jesus to come back and finish the beautiful painting he started but in a sense when we participate in church life what we're doing is we are giving a picture of what God is liking bringing Heaven to Earth M oh Mike that's so good I you know we just celebrated Pentecost um in real time not when maybe people are listening but um and with my kids in church we talked a lot about both what you were just saying of okay Jesus says this crazy thing if it's better for me to go away so that this can come but in the days since Pentecost most of the stories we've been telling have been post Pentecost stories in the Bible and we've been saying where are we seeing God's people doing the things that Jesus did and saying the things that Jesus said and and to your point doing the things that Jesus did means saying the kingdom of God is here I am living like that's true I am displaying that to other people it's this captivating beautiful thing that people will be drawn to and we get to participate in um and this kid probably won't Wonder this um but many of the adults listening might wonder this um your your explanation at the beginning was so helpful of Heaven and Earth because I like you grew up in a context where we said you know Heaven is is is way where God is and we're hoping to get there um but people also might be thinking okay I love what you said about heaven and earth made by God and because of sin there's like this separation and so we start using this Heaven language to talk about where is God and where does God break into to us but people also might be wondering okay the Bible talks a lot about heavens and earth but also the Bible talks a lot about the world and sometimes there's kind of seemingly contradictory things said about the world sometimes it's you need to hate the world to really love God sometimes it's for God so love the world so can you talk a little bit about are these words the same Earth and worlds and what's going on with the Bible on those things oh Kaitlyn you are such a genius and here's what I love I love that that you can answer all of these um yourself but I love that you invite conversation partners because I know I know you know all of this um that there there is kind of one word for world but it has three different meanings depending on its usage Mike is about to describe to us these three different uses of the word world but as he's describing them you might be thinking but how do we know which use is meant in any one Bible passage this is where good habits of Bible reading and good theology are so important we'll come back to this in a minute but as Mike is describing these three uses try and wonder about how you might be able to tell the difference when you come across the word world in the Bible it can either mean the Earth the created order the world God made the world and everything in it in Acts it can also mean the inhabited Earth the people of the Earth as a as a communal entity for God so loved the world he gave his one and only son or James uses it this way um uh and I think John does you know do not love the things of the world yeah and and and there the world stands for the organized system of human autonomy and flesh energized by powers and principalities that stands in opposition to the purposes of God so how can we tell these three uses apart in the Bible First context we can tell by the context if the Bible is talking about material creation the Earth under our feet or the human community in the world or the human Community turned against God we can look at the paragraphs around the one verse we're thinking about and tell what's being referenced or described there second we need good theology We Believe God's word is full of diversity but it does not contradict itself God isn't trying to confuse us so when first John says we aren't supposed to love the world but John 3 says God loves the world we have enough theological background to say they must not mean quite the same thing by world and then we look at the whole story of scripture like Mike is doing to see how these two uses go together and so one of the very hard things that that Christians have to do is we can't trust labels so so something can be called a Christian but not be Christian and something can be called not Christian and still represent Jesus beautifully yeah and so the old the the word that I always heard thrown around was the word worldly you don't want to be worldly well being worldly is good in some situations if that means loving the people of the world enjoying creation absolutely but if it means participation in or endorsement of um a mode of life that stands in opposition to the purposes of God well then obviously I'm I'm to be transformed instead of conformed to that pattern of life and so so Discerning that becomes the hard thing it's much easier to judge and it's much easier to label but um we you know we sit in this I mean you and I had a conversation weeks ago on the holy post podcast about Taylor Swift and you were making you were making the point that yes you can rip out individual lyrics and and have reactions to those but contextually um you sift and sort them and you realize you just can't write the whole thing off and you just can't accept the whole thing uncritically and that's true I think with spiritual things as well so um one of the things that I I love about your work is that you're doing that you you your posture is curious the name of your podcast is perfect because I Think Jesus people have nothing to fear yeah from the truth wherever we find it and Paul says this beautiful thing in 1 Corinthians where it where the church is divided over human personalities Apollo is this eloquent speaker we guess and Paul wasn't very impressive in person and cus Peter I mean that dude walked with Jesus man and so the church was playing favorites shocking ly and and Paul sort of builds up to this argument where he says all things are yours guys no matter if it's from Peter or cus or Paul it's all yours wherever you find truth goodness and Beauty take it it's yours and I just thought wow what a great posture to have towards the world and that's why I love the title of your podcast and and I love you because we don't so uh and and interrupt me here if I'm going off too much very often the American form of Christianity that I received and have been a purveyor of starts with being threatened and defensive and we just want to say what if we started with being curious and hospitable um and yes still Discerning absolutely yeah but I think the difference in terms of where you start get leads to where you end up to a great degree yeah and so I love the posture that says you know what unless it explicitly is asking us to deny the lordship of Jesus in some way we can be curious about this and see where are the prophetic voices out in the world speaking to the church that we might not pay attention to because they AR labeled Christian and now a word from a sponsor wait what's a sponsor this episode of curiously Caitlyn is sponsored by haa Health if you care about your kids learning better theology you probably care about their health too and typical children's vitamins are basically candy in Disguise filled with 2 teaspoons of sugar unhealthy chemicals and other gummy junk that's why haa was created the pediatrician approved 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vitamin where you can receive 50% off your first order to claim this deal you must go to High health.com SLC curiously this deal is not available on their regular website go to h i y a h e a l t ph.com SLC curiously and get your kids the full body nourishment they need to grow into healthy adults yeah that's a great segue into the the next thing I wanted to ask you which again little kid not thinking this but probably grown-ups listening thinking this going well I've I I appreciate that you said okay there's the way Jesus brings Heaven to Earth brought Heaven to Earth there's the way we participate in that now then there's the the final consum bringing Heaven to Earth yes and part of the tension between all these things is the ways that Christians have thought we bring Heaven to Earth that were maybe not good ways of doing it so this gets it what you were saying earlier of the the means we use or the how Heaven is brought to Earth and there's a whole bunch of things we could talk about but I'm curious both about how you would describe how we participate in that what does it look like for Christians to participate in bringing Heaven to Earth now in practical ways that someone could say oh yeah that's something I do or could do but also to ask you know how how would we know if we were creeping into the wrong ways of bringing Heaven to Earth because as someone who studied a lot of history people have really good intentions and then they end up in really Wayward places and especially for people you know some of the people who are listening teach Sunday school to kids in their church or they're teaching their own kids and I'm just wondering like even for myself in my Sunday school like how do I talk about this in a way that makes them believe what you just said about the world is God's good creation Fallen but we get to participate in it there's things in here that are beautiful and faithful to do that aren't just quote unquote Christian things but also here's where we might go wrong if we are a little too confident in bringing Heaven to Earth ourselves oh that's so good Caitlyn okay so yes we are leaving Kidville entirely and now now we're now we're we're bringing we'll come back yes yes we love we love um first of all the the biggest thing is unless it looks like Jesus crucified incarnated crucified resurrected and ascended it's not Christian no matter what it calls itself so um Michael Gorman as you know scholar you know has written extensively on the the hymn that Paul uses in Philippians about how Jesus did not use the power and prerogatives that were his as God for his own Advantage but rather and then there's a layered humiliation he took the form of a servant taking on the very nature of a human and then dying on the cross right the lowest of the lowest social sort of standing and and that that act of his garnered the name Yahweh the name that is above every name and so that we experience the exaltation of Yahweh when we humble ourselves the way that Jesus humbled himself Heaven it is as it expressed in the church is a social reality so all of Paul's list where he talks about the virtues in Christ and the vices that we're to avoid are all social realities meaning there there isn't one of them that's named that's just by yourself so bringing Heaven to Earth looks like right Hospitality it looks like forgiveness and Reconciliation and bearing with one another all the one another statements yeah right confession I mean all those that's that is literally the picture of what heaven looks like when it's practiced in the church and what heaven doesn't look look like are the old creation dynamics of hostility and Division and accusation and labeling and demonizing and so the test for me if I have to break Jesus's commands or Jesus's example in order to fulfill Jesus's agenda that I'm no longer bringing Heaven to Earth I'm doing something else and so so for me The Sermon on the Mount Matthew 5-7 if I could give one piece of the Bible to store in my heart and wish it for every everybody else it would be that one yeah that that let's oppose things that are opposing God and hurting and oppressing people but let's do so as we love our enemy pray for those who persecute us right I mean show goodness to the just and the unjust alike so that we're perfect like our Heavenly Father Like if so so I just simply hold up The Sermon on the Mount and I say if I can oppose something or stand against something while still following the teachings on the example of Jesus that I'm okay there are some instances where I'm not able to and those are those are places where I bow out because I'm too full of anger or condemnation or judgment and as we know the powers and principalities energize all that stuff and multiply it so so that in the name of Jesus I'm actually pushing people away from him yeah so and and it fits because heaven or if we want to use the synonym Kingdom of God yeah is a social political reality that operates completely in an upside down manner compared to the social dynamics of the world so all of the ways that identity is distorted and fractured and labeled and and hierarchi all of those are to be undone in the real the social reality of the church and when that happens according to Paul that is a monument not only to the resurrection of Jesus but to the defeat of the powers and principalities that energized div vision and so my goodness all of a sudden me getting along with that person in the third row is much more significant than you know what I mean like then well I just don't like this person want to find a new church no there's something happening there that if we had the imagination to see is really profoundly significant right so anyway so there's a lot more that we could say about kind of practically how that works but I want to move into that last part of we are awaiting something as well um and we actually have another kid who asked a question I think along these lines so we're gonna hear a similar question awesome hey Kaitlyn when is God gonna bring Heaven to Earth oh which I love I love on one hand if if this kid had been listening to our conversation thus far they would have at least picked up okay well one thing Mike would say is Jesus has Jesus has brought Heaven to Earth and and continues to in glimpses and in God's people in all sorts of different ways but I also imagine this kid has picked up in church that we're waiting for something too um how would you answer there when is God gonna do that yes yes well I mean I would answer similarly to you by saying I have no idea right I don't know we've been waiting 2,000 years and even somebody in the first century Peter had to address his church or a series of churches by saying hey some of you have heard that he's already come no and and Peter gives an explanation for why we're still waiting so I wish I knew Peter does say one thing though God is waiting so that as many people as possible can find out how awesome he is and so so I would just say this we have lots of work in the meantime we know that the story ends beautifully yeah that all the tears are going to be wiped away and all the sadness is going to be gone we know that the story ends the way it begins with God dwelling with human beings in A Renewed earth like this is a this isn't us with wings in some floaty place this is us doing human life yeah right without without all of the sadness oh I can't I can hardly wait for it and the only instruction we're given by Jesus is be ready be prepared yeah and that doesn't mean worry about it because this is good news for us this is not something we're afraid of this is something we can't wait to see but it just simply means recognizing that all of human life is important everything that you do from school to helping your parents to whether or not you arguing with your brother and sister all of that matters because God isn't trying to get you out of that he's trying to show his Beauty in the midst of it and so I wish I knew I would tell you this though when you hear people say they think they know I don't know that I would believe them because I don't Jesus himself said he didn't have an exact date but that was something only God the Father knew and you have if you've been listening to the podcast you know who that is yeah that's a good a good answer if someone tells you that they know with certainty don't listen to them um Mike this has been so helpful thank you uh we've been finishing most of these and I forgot to warn you about this so apologies but we've been finishing most of these with asking okay we've like you said we've moved a little bit out of Kidville which is good this is a podcast for adults but one thing that a lot of people have have found helpful is for me to ask guests what is the answer that you would give to a kid that's not your biggest longest most thought out answer if you spend a bunch of time with them but how I tend to imagine it is because this is how it typically happens in my Sunday school class is we have five minutes before pickup or we have 30 seconds before pickup or there's a parent at the door and a kid suddenly turns to me and says something wild like how is Jesus also God and God the father is his father and you know and we're off on the races and I don't have a ton of time to work through it so what what would your answer be to a kid whose parent is picking them up from Sunday school and they turn to you and they say does God bring Heaven to Earth what would your like short accessible to a kid answer B I would say absolutely he does and the great part is we get to help him in that project so the Bible begins with him bringing Heaven and Earth the Bible ends with him bringing Heaven and Earth and now we're waiting for what Jesus started to to come back back and finish and so we get to be heaven on Earth people in imitating Jesus while we're waiting for Jesus to return and finish the beautiful painting he started that is so great so that's maybe yeah that's great thank you so much M thank you for thank you for taking this question really seriously with me oh my I love I love Kaitlyn I'm sorry to compliment you again I can't help myself having worldclass Scholars and than me take the the questions of kids seriously is is beautiful I I I mentioned Seth uh Seth is my mentor in the way of Jesus because he teaches me how to be human and the questions that he will ask are the most the most profound and so I love I love I love what you're doing and I love that these kids love it too thanks thank you Mike I was recently flipping through some Christian children's books and found one that honestly kind of shocked me it was a children's version of The Lord's Prayer the prayer that Jesus teaches us to pray in The Sermon on the Mount on the page that explained the line your kingdom come to Children the author had written something like God lives up in heaven but he loves you so much that one day he'll take you to live with him there this is such a good example of how we can go wrong theologically when we just don't tell the whole story when we overemphasize one part over the other is it true and comforting that God loves us so much and that when we die we will be with him yes but that's not the whole story and it's not what Jesus teaches us to pray Jesus teaches us to pray your kingdom come your will be done on Earth as it is in heaven we aren't waiting to get plucked out of this world and taken somewhere else we are waiting for something much more miraculous for the kingdom of God to come here for Christ to return and make all things new and when we pray these words Jesus taught us to pray we're not only asking for him to come back and make all things new we're also opening ourselves up to participating in the Kingdom coming to Earth for God's will being done on Earth as it is in heaven if you've never regularly prayed The Lord's Prayer consider praying it sometimes this week and watch and see if you notice opportunities in your regular life to seek the Kingdom on Earth to prepare a meal for a stranger a moment that you can speak up for justice and Truth a word of kindness you can speak instead of harshness God has given us the wonderful opportunity to prepare for his return by seeking these glimpses of the Kingdom by the power of the Holy Spirit Here and Now [Music] curiously Caitlyn is a production of holy post media produced by Mike sto editing by Seth Gorvette theme song by Phil viser be sure to follow us on Apple Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts and leave a review so more people can discover thoughtful Christian commentary plus cute kids and never any butt news [Music], Does God Bring Heaven to Earth?, YouTube, 01k9gewvqsf0jrz1hne9f45da4.