Drupal Business Survey 2025 ![rw-book-cover](https://img.youtube.com/vi/oJ0cTkL7vxs/maxresdefault.jpg) ## Metadata - Author: [[YouTube]] - Full Title: Drupal Business Survey 2025 - Category: #articles - Document Tags: [[ai]] [[business]] [[pricing]] - Summary: Drupal Business Survey 2025 - URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ0cTkL7vxs All right, good morning. Good morning everyone. Thank you for coming for joining this early session. Um tomorrow this this morning we're doing the um uh the Drupal business survey. Um the rest of it the results were um presented yesterday at Drupal business dinner. Um the highlights in the first part of it I think the first 25% or so you have another 3/4 of the survey. there was a lot of data and today we wanted to show you a little bit of the um of the rest of the survey and the outcome of that. So uh the dupal business survey is organized by the dupal business network in collaboration with the dupal association um for over past two years they've been helping us collect the data anonymize it um helping like in the organization of the the survey the dinner um so there's um Misha Valda and Jana Caliola they've been doing the survey for over 12 years 13 even uh and I was um fortunate to join their team two years ago. So um diving right in um so this is the divide in the company size in the results of the survey. Um so we have quite a few smaller agencies companies also SAS providers were among them. Um, so there's uh quite a few companies that have been uh around for quite some time as you can as you can see. Uh there's quite a divide there, but there's some really long-standing organizations with us. Here's a company revenue divide. Um so there's also um a few smaller companies that responded. Also, it's worth noting that there is quite a few companies that did not provide the revenue. So, the data isn't entirely complete. We do have enough, but um typically uh US and Australian companies um didn't want to provide their revenue. So, we'll be looking into their feedback. Obviously, expected revenue change. Um going further with some of the highlights of the uh the survey. Um as you can see compared to last year there is a there's a shift in the revenue change. Um um I think there's a slight um optimism that might be misplaced. We it's if you if we go further down you will see that uh the numbers have changed drastically and the outlook has uh there's a downward trend. Um hopefully this will come true but our I mean the thing here is to make sure that you um don't set your hopes up too high and be realistic. So our analysis on the the revenue and the business side is that Drupal companies are small and most of them are at least 10 years old. Um the growth has not been the key focus for most of the companies. There are new companies that have emerged which is a good thing. um small sizes makes them more vulnerable to market disruptions. Obviously, compared companies with Drupal only focus are even more vulnerable. So, diversification is something that you will hear a few times um is is certainly a focus for many companies these days and it should be. So, resilience by adopting growth mentality and growing steadily as always, but widen the service portfolio. So offer other um services in the portfolio is a good thing to make sure that um that you can um get back into that growth trend. If you're a soul entrepreneur, build a network of partners and collaborators to increase your resilience on to clients. All right, good morning. Okay, let's have a a deep dive on on the clients. So these are the industries served. Um and uh some of you who've been around for a longer period of time uh know that uh uh education, government um and admin public administration and charities and nonprofit specifically nonprofit are always in the top three um for over like 13 14 years now. Um and uh Jana and I always said okay you have to diversify uh do not focus specifically on on these sectors for uh for the fact that well there's a reason they call it nonprofit you know they always go for the lowest price and that doesn't leave a lot of profit for you. Uh so we definitely suggest you move into other uh uh areas as well. Um well fortunately there's a there's a new um uh uh runner up and it's banking you know that's moving up the ladder uh and and specifically healthcare. Healthcare is a very good industry you know it's uh it found uh to be resistant against any uh uh economic trend. You know nobody will pay less uh nobody will buy less medicines uh uh so so I would definitely say this is a very interesting industry to move into. they got large budgets. Um, but the the the overall suggestion is just diversify and even move up to the left and and find some other industries where where Drupal is not really active yet because that that's there's new markets for for you. Um, then the reasons to select Drupal. Um, well, this is worrisome for some reason. They have used Drupal before. What we see out of the results of the the survey is that uh a lot of you a lot lot of agencies have long-standing clients you know and they're currently focusing on recurring revenue instead of new revenue. Um another good reason there's a good one that's open source um uh but based on our recommendation people say like okay we've recommended Drupal Drupal uh security and flexibility um so performance reliability are also other uh reasons to select Drupal or otherwise it's suitable for the business so our analysis public sector education charities continue to dominate the top client categories These sectors provide longevity uh but also look for the best price. So that's why they call nonprofit. Healthcare and banking provide a count good counterweight for the top three. Super customer pool is renewing and expanding to new industries too slowly. So please focus on that. There's a lot of interesting opportunities out there. Um our recommendations just build a sustainable service product sales strategy that helps you to expand to more lucrative industries. Do not rely only on recurring revenue or existing clients. They offer safe harbor during crisis, but focusing only on them reduces your future potential. All right, hand it over to Yana for the success and challenges. Yes, we have been asking for the greatest successes and challenges for probably past 13 years and then we have categorized them a bit that they you can see that the the biggest successes are client related growth and profitability and then sales wins which is surprising considering the uh the numbers that we showed uh yesterday that the uh the Drupal companies are not doing that great right now that the pipelines pip pipelines are going down the sales wins are going down and so forth but there are still sparks of hope that somebody somewhere if it's not your company then at least somebody somewhere is doing good which is a good news for the project and it means that also the drupal is a viable option uh if we we always ask a free form text about the successes so uh retaining customers was mentioned many times. Uh diversifying beyond Drupal uh is is something that somebody has done. Uh somebody has record revenue and profitability. So somebody's doing really great. Uh the companies have been getting sponsors for the Drupal contributions got uh three significant government projects delivered. Uh and then unanticipated new project from exit clients. There's plenty of these greatest challenges are client related and sales related which is no surprise to uh probably anybody that is is running an agency. There are some people that think that they don't have any challenges. So it's either so that they don't really recognize the challenges or then they are playing too safe because endpreneur is a person that runs by the challenges at the end that there's always something challenging something is broken somewhere because if it's not then probably somebody else will will capture a market because they have sold challenge that you don't see or what not. uh competition less demand AI uh price compression reduction per value for our services in context of AI that is interesting the market has a tendency to remove the sort of hot air from the prices so if you now have a situation that you can accelerate your uh development with AI let's say like five times which is not unachievable and then you make huge margins. You can rest assured that those margin will wither away because somebody else somewhere in your market will decide to sell them sell the services cheaper and then you have to and so forth. So it it's uh the the market will always find the right price and you need to pre be prepared for that. Inbound is weaker. So the solution is to create more outbound. The challenge is continue to be on the sales and clients. There's the general market conditions is something and also the positioning of the agency in the market that most of the agencies are at the end of the value chain that there are so many people making decisions before them that whether we are going to do it which uh concept we are going to use which technology good for the concept and so forth so forth and then finally the gig might land on you unless you have already climbed up a ladder that you do concept design you do a strategy and so forth with clients. There's so many agencies that are still answering technical matters on these challenges. Technology does not matter to anybody. It's just a way to change the problem and nothing else. So if you are too deep in technology, then you don't see the business. So you need to figure out the position of your company on the market especially with the with the AI and the new technologies. Uh you need to invest on sales and marketing. Mckenzie has studied that those companies that have invested at sales and sales and expensive marketing during the downturn they come stronger out of the out of the turmoil than those that have cut. So you should do it exactly the opposite that when the when the when the times go tough then you then you double down with marketing and when it's easy then you reduce the marketing and not vice versa that most people do and then you need to shift focus from technology to client value because the client are expecting value and they are not interested about technology and then we go to the contributions in here. Oh, sorry. Yeah, sure. >> So, just a remark when we say agencies, there's also some national service providers and product product companies. So, we're all like it's also included in agencies, right? >> Yeah. And I have another bit of advice um uh with um regards to uh selling either technology. Um I would suggest don't sell the technology, but sell a business case. If you can make up a business case on why it's interesting to invest in basically a new site uh and and sell the business case that will be you know uh making your clients a lot more happier than hey selling you a Drupal website. So okay let's have a look at contributions. Um the major part of the contribution goes to uh development but we see a rise also in other areas. uh for example marketing marketing has a long for a long time marketing was not part of contribution and I'm happy to see that marketing is now part of the the contributions um of course donations and organizing events um uh and also sponsoring events is uh is important um there's one thing I would like to see to rise in the near future and this is something to consider and that is design and usability um if you have a UX designers available uh uh and if they can join uh the the Drupal project and and and improve the project that will help everybody within the community. All right. So uh some selected reasons to contribute giving back growing the community uh improve the community existing website maintenance or creating solutions from niche ideas uh to keep the community strong uh for the PR it provides and to be an authentic open source contributor and part of a sharing ethos give back and take balance. So our analysis um contributions continue to be highly appreciated within the Drupal companies. Do they unlock new business uh directly or indirectly? Yes and no. Um so so the fact is once you're contributing um it will be of great advances not only for the community but also for your your staff you know because if they start contributing they get feedback on the code they're providing on the stuff they're doing and because they get feedback they're learning. So you get into a cycle of learning and growing. Um, it also gives them if they do it properly, it gives them visibility and not only visibility for the code they deliver but also the visibility for your company. So there's a win-win situation if you start contributing. Uh, so the Drupal project continues to suffer from lack of design as I said, perceived hardness of use, old-fashioned brand position, etc. If you uh ask chat GPT, you know, who are the best on the top three uh uh open source CMSs, it tell you, yeah, Drupal is in there, which is good, but it tells you it's more difficult than other platforms. Um so some recommendations, align your contribution with the desired future of Drupal. Do not focus on everything. Uh provide more design and usability contributions as I said and continue acceleration the speed of innovation that has been evident for example with a quick adoption of AI in Drupal. Yes, we need to push forward uh to adopt AI within the Drupal ecosystem to maintain uh uh a player within this market. All right. Right. We have some top we have some topical matters and Drupal CMS obviously is an important topical matter that we have uh questions and answers come in. Right. So the question like how likely will you use Drupal CMS and there's a a good divide here. I wouldn't say this is unexpected because like you know we're uh over a year down the line now and that's like this is um people are like early adopting and jumping on the wagon. Some people are like still experimenting with it. So this is like the typical divide that uh that we see now. How important is Drupal CMS to your agency? Well, also we here's we see uh a divide. Um I don't know what the dip is in the fourth bar, but like the majority is on the on the important side of the uh of the graph, right? So, and I think that we most of us agree that it's important to follow up with the developments of Drupal CMS the impact to your business. Um so there is benefit uh there's a big part is neutral, but this is this is not bad. This is this is a positive thing. So uh our analysis is that like there's mixed reception with positives and negatives but generally it's on the positive side which is good uh but also like in the state we're in with Drupal CMS that is to be expected. Uh the branding is considered to be confusing though that was feedback that we got in as Drupal is also CMS. So if you like to explain like we have Drupal we have Drupal CMS and Drupal is also CMS right. So that's the thing um it's still too much about technology as opposed to compare to client value. However, we've had some there are some good client value sessions. We've had splash awards this multiple splash awards this week and as D was stating at the international splash awards and it's just as important to talk about the client value as it is about the features right which is what we all do here this week. So you need to decide your stance towards Drupal CMS. I mean, we all need to decide our stance and our our our strategy toward it because it's here to stay obviously. Um, and it needs kind cases and other social proof. And there's amazing landing pages by the way here added to uh Drupal.org which is continuing to happen. Um, so there's the marketing initiative, the uh the marketing track from the AI initiative and the marketing working group led by Lynn here in the back that's working um every week to provide new social proof. So that's good. But you can do that too and you should AI. >> Yes. So the good thing is as I said you go got to invest into AI to maintain uh the project um AI features in Drupal project. Yes people are contributing uh to the project um in terms of uh uh adding new AI features and and working on that. So that's that's a good thing. Um well the business area of using Drupal uh what we see uh yes uh a lot of code development of course um using it for internal operations um or the creation of marketing uh content um a bit for data analysis uh some sales uh or leads it's it's used for artificial intelligence um and of course client projects um within my company we use it a lot for coding also for for client projects. So, it's interesting to uh to adopt AI uh within your company. Um and there's a few that even that does not have adopted uh AI yet. Um and as I said, uh as V said it earlier in his keynote, you know, there's a storm coming. It's the AI storm and the Bison, you know, they are basically running towards the storm. Um I suggest you adopt uh AI and use it as much as possible. uh experience uh uh uh experiment with it and uh see what it can offer to your agency. So here we see the percentage of code generated with AI. Um it's about well the biggest ones are about 10 or 20%. Um I believe this will move up quickly. So in the future I well foresee uh that more than 50% of code will be generated by AI. Um and that will make sure that um your your basically your coders or your developers will transition into um how do you say it? Uh they have to check the code you know which be which is being generated uh by AI. Um so I I suggest yeah uh make sure that your teams are being uh are experiencing and and and using uh the AI coding tools but make sure that the human is always in the loop to check that the code is that's being produced is okay to publish. All right. All right. The use of AI in the next 12 months um yeah for yeah definitely increases significantly and increases um uh and then the interesting bit few papers say yeah it will decrease significantly. So there's few non-believers still or they didn't have the right tools at the right moment. Okay. Uh benefits of using AI uh well significant developer productivity within my agency. we see a 50% uh uh productivity increase 50%. So that that's a lot. Um well, we're able to go deep deeper, move faster, and deliver stronger outcomes. Uh efficiency, consistency, velocity. Um so it's all about efficiency. A lot of risk actually people say some productivity increases, but not always. Um uh crafting drafts, analyzing data, doing more with the same amount of people, and faster delivery. I think that's the last one is absolutely true. We can deliver much much faster within our agency. Um AI helps us deliver personalized experiences again improve efficiency, accelerate workflows. That's true. Um I have one colleague uh he has multiple agents working for him at the same time. So so he can work on multiple projects at the same time. Um so that's that's really interesting. um lately. Well, a couple of weeks ago, he was says, "I have to run an update on this website." So, he just prompted and then he says, "I'm going home." He says, "But you have to update the website." Yeah, but the agent's doing it for me. You know, jumped on his bike 10 minutes later was home. It says, "All done." And we got two major improvements as well, which was suggested by the AI and I had not followed that one. So, yeah. So, while he was on his bike, we were making money. All right. So enhance the code output for the experienced dup developers for faster delivery a faster feature delivery development becomes a commodity we need to shift our agency model that's true and focus on how we're providing value for our customers sell the business case this shift will lead us uh to becoming more valuable and have better relations with our clients our analysis AI is seen as a big performance boost and its adoption rate is already high uh 40% of companies have not yet offered AI capabilities to their clients through Drupal. This is too high a number. Uh use of AI creates concern with regards to quality and client value and and and and billing. Yes. Uh I can imagine uh because if the work is being done by AI agents, how do you build this to a client? You know, there will be uh a lot more competition amongst you agencies, you know, in terms of pricing on how fast you can deliver. So the agency model is under pressure. So that's why you have to sell value instead of hours. Uh build a strong messaging around AI and Drupal. This a recommendation. Focus on client value again not technology. Uh uh again execute fearlessly. So so without fear try um uh uh adopt it as fast as possible. Uh and yes you will make mistakes of course but that's part of our business. uh continue building your own AI capabilities for both internal and client task and yes protect your daily rates. Yes, we are entering the final segment of the of today's session. uh the recommendation that we have is that the the market condition will continue to be hard and the use of platforms in general in turmoil. So you can't really rely that this is a temporary hiccup that has take that has sort of lasted for 2 years now. It's it's a quite long hiccup already. It won't fix itself. So you can't expect that by doing nothing your business will be as good as in 22 or 23. It won't. So the if you or somebody in your company thinks that they will bounce back then slap them on the face and tell them that okay we need to actually change to be able to stay where we were. Uh the world will be semi chaotic or chaotic. There's both the markets are in turmoil and the politics are in turmoil and we had really interesting discussion yesterday with our US-based colleagues about their their their situation and that might happen also in other countries. So the uh the extremist forces are are rising in politics and it will be very shortsighted thing when they when if they raise the power and and it will be chaotic. So you need to build a antifragile company. That means that if you trip down you will raise stronger. You don't just raise that resilience but if you raise stronger then you're antifragile. You need to focus on marketing and sales. You need to build your brand and position carefully. We have a session today at 3:00 about that and where we show that how the Drupal companies are like carbon copies of e marketing perspective. Everybody or not everybody but most of the companies show or say that they are in exactly the same position that is completely irrelevant to the client. I had to add an insult on that one. Uh you need to protect your bottom lines by delivering excellent client value and you even further you need to protect your cash flow because companies can tolerate making losses for years but if they don't have cash flow they will go bankrupt in probably weeks. So you need to make sure that you get in in influx of cash all time. You need to move the AI to the center of your operations. Both intern and client facing. There is no other option. If you think otherwise then you are probably a fool most probably. Or then you are so small that that you can move around these things and you might get your living. But if if there's like 20 years until your pension, then that is probably too long a stretch that you couldn't need to touch AI. Uh regarding Drupal CMS, you need to decide your strategy towards it. Whether you are all in or all out, unless you're a very very big company like hundreds of people, dozens of people minimum, you can't have both because they will diverge in the future more and more. They will have different clients partially and you can unlock new things with Drupal CMS that leaves more market to the people that stay with Drupal core because then you have exited that market. But if you try to do them both then chances are that you won't do either one properly and then you are screwed. Except that if you are in hosting business then anything goes then it's just that you need to support both but that's for the hosting companies and as said you need to execute fearlessly there are bad times behind us and there are bad times ahead of us and we are living bad times right now. So if you sort of hunch down that you you sort of decide that okay I'll I'll try to protect everything. and I don't want to do anything because I'm afraid of change or I'm afraid of client or I'm afraid of something then it's the fear that controls your company and not you. So execute fearlessly because you need to execute. These things won't happen without execution and the agency owners, the company owners, the management, the board members, they are in charge of the execution. That's why the it's the chief executive officer that needs to execute. >> Okay. >> So again, so before we open up for Q&A, this is like the summary of the results. If you participated or if you're a DCP, you will get the results report. Also, I want to stress two things before we jump into question 15 minutes. First is like there were some harsh numbers in here, right? and we're all business owners and we're we have to look at the harsh numbers. It's all over the market. It's not just Drupal. So, this is not just Drupal. The entire digital market is uh is um having these issues and challenges. All right. And there's plenty of things that we can do with Drupal CMS AI. There are over 50 recommendations. We have the master class this afternoon. I mean there's there's there's good things that you can do to turn turn the ship turn your ship and face those challenges. So it's a positive thing. >> Yeah. >> Any questions? >> Kindly kindly use the microphone. >> One one comment on on the business. I'd like to add I didn't notice you mention on the AI thing that um what I'm seeing is is that also the demand is there. So that's that's uh what what we are seeing. So go there whether you like or not. Yeah. I had an interesting discussion about it yesterday that every brand in the world will adopt AI in some form. Yeah. Uh that means from this local Italian shop that uh has an AI agent. So you can talk to your AI agent can talk to the AI agent of this little Italian food restaurant and you can order a table automatically through the AI agent. So so if you think of this this concept, every brand, every company in the world will adopt AI in some form. So, um, I don't know if you know the the red ocean and the blue ocean theory. U, if you haven't, just just read a book about it. But AI is a massive blue ocean. There's a lot of work out there. Uh, and and every brand needs advice on the implementation of AI in some form. >> Yeah. And I would add that there lot of clients are not really clueless. That would be really bit bit too harsh word. But they need help. >> Yeah. to get the get somebody that understands AI and the benefits beyond the large language models that everybody said okay we are using AI because we are using JBT that is not the case I've been some clients around Europe and I see that most boarding directors there are infere the problem is they don't understand capabilities of AI there some of their employees do and but they don't want to show them that they don't. So, so they they're duck diving, you know, and they're diving away and says, "Okay, let's not do it. Let's not adopt it because I have no clue what it is." And whilst their their employees are already embracing uh AI in some form without any regulation. So, so there's work to be done out there. So you can if you move into the AI sphere you can you know become a trusted advisor at CEO level and that's where you want to be as an agency. >> Yeah and the Drupal is really really wellversed with the AI as we heard in the in the in the trees note that it's the the most positive thing what we have seen in the survey is sort of twofold. There's the adoption fast adoption of AI that is because we have been able to innovate faster than you than before with Drupal community. So we need to build on those strengths and solve the challenges that we have. Okay, let's have the next question. >> Hello first of all congratulation for your great job. I'm watching very closely the results of the surveys the last years. Unfortunately every year is at worst. So that is something that we need to take into consideration. Okay. I would like to make a suggestion and this is connected to my session that I have at half past 10 regarding new markets that we need to target. My session is Drupal without limit. uh I think uh it's very important that every year the safe harbors of rubal are same and same and mostly we talk about government education that they're not like dynamic markets so I I think that we need to focus on more dynamic market like commerce I'm searching for commerce here for example I cannot find uh what it is commerce is a very dynamic market Drupal core and Drupal commerce is very very important tool and very robust tool. H also we have some other markets like IoT that they are very uh expanded every year and uh unfortunately all of us will focus again and again to our safe parks like government that is not the real market. I mean you know the states they are taking subsidies they need to spend the subsidies the results are not uh state of heart. So I I think that it's not a matter that can we do alone as agencies. It's something that we need to make together and I think association is aligned to that that we need to have a universal marketing to target new markets. >> Yeah, I think that the the you are spot on. So the this this this slide that is now uh showing it's uh it's sort of the verticals and the e-commerce and IoT and the others are the horizontals that that break through most of these uh for example the constru IOT is construction heavy industry and so forth so forth and then the e-commerce is used on most of these retail is of course one of the sort of where the where it's um everybody is doing it but it could be somewhere else too. So the uh besides the verticals, you could also focus on the horizontals that we are we are uh Drupal plus IoT or Drupal plus AI or Drupal plus commerce or something. Very good point. Very good point. So the uh you could do sort of the that kind of approach too. >> I would like to add only 5% of the Drupal core uh projects uh installed Drupal Commerce. So it's only 5% of the whole website using Drupal. >> Yeah. So there was a comment that only 5% of the Drupal sites actually include commerce. So that is good place, good advice. Go there, conquer market, sell stuff. >> Yeah. So my question is about the business model and you know you you talked about value pricing a lot. We also experimenting how to do that. Actually in the past obviously we charge hours of the open hours and this is kind of degrading and my question is so to all of you actually how how do you value price uh specifically related to Drupal projects and obviously we also sell consulting and higher up letter um services you know you cannot just expand that and cover all the development hours and I'm actually curious if you crack the code on how to do value pricing um for that maybe there are some insights. >> Yeah, maybe maybe to start with that the uh the the customer value and the value pricing are a bit two different things. So the uh first of all uh there are a lot of companies that don't really know what their clients value. They don't value Drupal like the companies do value Drupal. So that that's one thing that you need to provide things that the customer is willing to pay and hopefully pay higher prices. Then if you go to the value based pricing that you for example have success fees or you you make uh make uh different kind of agreement models where you share the share the results or it's not about the hours but the value that you create. It's gets harder. It's not there's not sort of straightforward answer to your question. Probably somebody has been have been talking around those those things. Uh and if there's somebody in the audience that has has any good or bad ideas then then we are more than glad to hear hear about those. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Um yes we are currently in the transition from the p uh hourly price to the value uh based pricing and we try to make packages. For example, um when you do a Drupal update, um you you you put a price tag behind it. No matter how how long it takes, normally when you work with the customers, you you you have a feeling okay this customer has this big size and update is taking normally 1 hour. We are charging two and a half or three to to have always security. So value price basing uh value based pricing is always with safety. So the customer is always paying more but it doesn't matter for him because he gets a value. he doesn't count hours anymore and uh he also doesn't ask and also about um other Drupal services like um maybe um a project we tried that we we currently want a project where customers said I want this this this this and we put a price tag behind it because in the in from the experience we know how much effort this is and we have also experienced when we say we do it with Drupal Well, like you said before, the customer doesn't care which system is behind it and in usually he just wants the solution and he want a stable system and when we say okay Drupal is stable um you can search for it. There are many use cases um he doesn't really care. So this is what works very good for us because we we make a lot of safety space in our calculations and it is working. So when you put hours the customer thinks oh why is it taking so long when you when you get rid of the hours he doesn't think about it and it's working just try you know in a sense you are productizing your services that yeah and and then the uh the budgetability I don't know if that is real word and uh is is really key value for certain clients that they know exactly that this will cost them €10,000 it's way better that it cost €10,000 to a big client client and it would cost something between €2,000 and uh €20,000 and then it might cost €5,000 but they they would be more happy to pay the 10k to you if they can say that it's if you can say that it's it will be exactly 10k and nothing else. So the simplicity is something that we sometimes we technical people we we over complicate things and then we make the the one biggest mistake that any salesperson can do and that is that you confuse the client. So if say that this is simple thing we can don't you worry we will take care of it. it will cost only you 10k and they said excellent let's make a deal move forward and then it might be one day job two day job it might be also one month job but you take the risk and and then they are willing to pay the premium of that that risk >> so we have still a master class with way more tricks and tips methods and psychology those channel in the middle I think we have time for one more question >> yeah we have three minutes yes >> yeah so I'd like to refer back to your statement that the the markets are are are going down also elsewhere like in the whole like this digital world like do we know exactly whether we are doing better or worse than others like is like WordPress struggling more or is server going up or so how how are the other like traditionally uh competitions doing >> so told me he went to a um to a to an event where all the CMS's were like all the big CMSs were leaders And he he told me like almost all of them got up to me and said like what you guys do with Drupal and the massive community that you have. I mean how do you do that work but we're also struggling but we want that too. I mean they look up to us with Drupal. So I don't have a number for you but it's uh I think that's an uplifting signal. >> WordPress is flatlining. >> So there was a comment that WordPress is flatlining. Yeah. And uh the it will hit it will it will hit everybody. Uh typically in these kind of recessions those cheaper options they do better than the than the more complex and and more pricey options. So in that sense probably this is my hunch there's no data that the Drupal and the and those other big Adobe and those so forth are taking a bigger hit compared to let's say WordPress or Wix >> that is probably winning markets because it's cheap and and it is sort of very uh budgetable that it's only only a certain price that you pay for for each month. with one final comment. >> Do you have any insights if it's a threat for our business that the community is aging? When I look around, we are um we have in the last 10 years we uh we have all aged and uh I do not see very young people um coming up. >> Yes. So to that point the um the um the uh Drupal training day was sold out. I think about 100 participants right so that's that's youngsters and there was like when uh the question was raised at the opening so how many new people are here first come from Drupal con there's always like I don't know a third of the people it's amazing so also that means there's people stepping up right but there are new people yeah but so so you can help you know as an agency within your country go to your local association and says okay let's organize Drupal on the day and then promote it and target to universities and we can create a new influx of new uh new companies and uh and new developers adopting Drupal. So this is something you can do as well. We I think Drupal the day we did it in the early days of Drupal 2009 and that was sold out as well. So, so, so it it is a concept that's been around u see if you can together with your local community or some competitors say hey guys let's team up dup in a day and maybe you can have this this uh uh this uh how to say it the the stuff that he's doing the the whole >> open university day >> yeah open university day format if you can copy it and and use it that would be awesome so my suggestion >> yeah but just to remind everybody body that the agency owners we are the people that pay the salaries of the community. So it's our responsible to bring the new blood nobody else's. So the again execute fearlessly. So we are done now we can continue discussions. I'll stop the recording because we we don't want to go too much over. We will be staying here for a while. So the uh you can ask any any and comments and have a discussion. Thank you for for your uh attendance and uh we'll continue from here. >> Thank you. >> Thanks., Drupal Business Survey 2025, YouTube, 01k9ytf5cjn11e6nkfy0jb8zdm.