Episode 133: Until Next Time  🔗 **Source:** [Episode 133: Until Next Time](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ojfp6DK5B8w) > [!note]+ Document Notes > --- > tags: [chaoss, open-source-community, community-health, community-metrics, open-source-governance, devrel] > author: [MISSING] > source: Chaos Cast (CHAOSS community podcast) > reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ojfp6DK5B8w > date created: {{date:YYYY-MM-DD}} {{time:HH:mm}} > --- > # 🏷️ Title: Episode 133: Until Next Time > ## 🧭 Table of Contents > - [📝 Summary](#-summary) > - [📖 Main Content](#-main-content) > - [🗒️ Notes](#️-notes) > - [📚 References](#-references) > - [🗣️ Paraphrase](#️-paraphrase) > - [📰 Newsletter](#-newsletter) > - [✅ Action Items](#-action-items) > - [🧪 Hypotheses](#-hypotheses) > - [📊 Methodology](#-methodology) > - [❓ Questions](#-questions) > - [🔮 Future Research](#-future-research) > - [💡 Implications](#-implications) > - [🧠 Learning Styles Assessment](#-learning-styles-assessment) > - [📊 Accessibility Assessment](#-accessibility-assessment) > - [🌍 DEIB Assessment](#-deib-assessment) > - [✅ Logical Validity](#-logical-validity) > - [🛡️ DARVO Analysis](#-darvo-analysis) > - [🎯 Conclusion](#-conclusion) > ### 🔗 References > - [CHAOSS project](https://chaoss.community/) > - [Sustain OSS podcast](https://sustainoss.org/podcast/) — cited as the inspiration for Chaos Cast > - [Open SSF Alpha-Omega Project](https://openssf.org/community/alpha-omega/) — AI-assisted vulnerability discovery, mentioned by Alice > - [FreeBSD Foundation](https://freebsdfoundation.org/) — Alice's paid open-source work > - [EU Cyber Resilience Act](https://digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu/en/policies/cyber-resilience-act) — regulation Alice now tracks > ## 📝 Summary > - Chaos Cast, the CHAOSS community podcast on open-source community health and metrics, records episode 133 as a deliberate, formal pause after more than six years and 132 prior episodes. > - It matters because it's a candid post-mortem on a community-run content program: the organizers say they can't justify the time and money against the value delivered, so they're pausing indefinitely rather than quietly fading out. > - Key stakeholders: hosts and organizers Harmony Elendo (newly elected CHAOSS board member, leads the technical writers focus group), Alice (FreeBSD Foundation), Mary Blessing (joining a Sloan-funded community management team), and "G" (a founding organizer, referred to as Gil/Georg, stepping off the CHAOSS board), plus editor Paul Barr of Peach Tree Sound. > - Risks and tradeoffs: the back catalog stays online, but momentum, onboarding of new voices, and the community-connection ritual (the "value adds") all stop; restart is possible only "if a clear community need emerges." > - Bottom line: a community podcast survives six years precisely because it was built as community-owned rather than one person's project — and it's being sunset with the same transparency that metrics-minded communities preach. > ## 📖 Main Content > - The episode is a farewell/reflection format. Rather than covering a single technical topic, the panel narrates the origin, operating model, metrics, and wind-down of Chaos Cast itself. > - Origin story: CHAOSS (Community Health Analytics in Open Source Software) started around 2017 to pull together scattered efforts on measuring open-source community health. Working-group conversations were rich, but that knowledge lived only in meetings. Blog posts didn't work ("if you've ever tried to get people to write anything, it is really difficult"), so the organizers moved to recorded Zoom conversations, launching the podcast May 1st, 2020, inspired by and initially networked with the Sustain OSS podcast. > - Operating model as the durable insight: it was deliberately made a *community* podcast, not a personal brand. Design choices that kept it alive — a community logo contest (episode 26 interviews the winner, Lewis Canastas), always more than one organizer (started with three), a rotating tradition of handing the baton to new hosts, and pulling in panelists from the community for unscripted conversation. > - Recurring formats mentioned: "20 Minutes with CHAOSS Africa" (led by Harmony, surfacing African-continent contributions to metrics), the Practitioner Guides series (tied to Dr. D's blog posts), event recaps, and coverage of new working groups. A closing "value adds" segment let each guest share something adding value to their life — a deliberate humanizing ritual. > - Metrics (with transcription caveats): ~37,000 total downloads across the run; ~28 downloads per episode average; episode 31 (marketing metrics for open-source foundations, a CHAOSS × GNOME × KDE collaboration with Sriram Krishna and Neofytos "Neo" Kronis) is the most-downloaded at 933; episode 1 (the "hello world" intro) is second at 586. New episodes get roughly 8–50 downloads day one, ~80–120 in the first 90 days. Geography skews ~60% United States, ~40% other, with Germany the second-ranked country at ~5%. Episodes generally ran 20–50 minutes. > - Wind-down rationale: the team "has not been able to determine that the podcast is delivering enough value to the community to justify the time and financial resources required to sustain it." The catalog stays hosted; restart stays open if a clear community need appears. > - Contested / uncertain claims: several numbers are garbled in the auto-transcript — "832 episodes" almost certainly means 132; "Chaos Castle" is "Chaos Cast"; the founding organizer's name renders inconsistently as G / Gil / GIO / GEOK (likely Georg Link, a CHAOSS co-founder, but the transcript does not confirm the surname). Treat exact figures as approximate. > ### 🗒️ Notes > #### 🎬 Opening — panel and premise > - Host Harmony Elendo introduces the panel: herself, Mary Blessing, "G," and Alice; frames the listener as "on the panel today." > - Harmony: project/product manager, newly elected CHAOSS board member, leads the CHAOSS technical writers focus group. > - Alice states the news plainly: "We decided to do an episode to put a formal pause on the Chaos Card podcast by recording a special episode." > #### 🕰️ History of Chaos Cast (told by "G") > - "The first episode we published on May 1st, 2020." More than six years and (this being the 133rd) 132 prior episodes. > - CHAOSS community began ~2017 to consolidate open-source community-health efforts; podcast was the answer to "how do we share the experiences… preserve it in a way that more people can join even when they're not in the meetings?" > - Blog posts failed as a knowledge-sharing mechanism; recorded conversations worked. Inspired by Sustain OSS; joined then outlived a podcast network. > #### 🤝 Why it survived — community ownership > - Core claim: "By making it the deliberate community podcast, we were able to keep the podcast alive. If it had been mine, it would have fallen apart." > - Mechanisms: logo contest (winner Lewis Canastas, ep. 26), "We also made sure to always have more than one organizer" (three at start), rotating hosts, unscripted community panelists. > - Baton-passing: Alice took it over ~two years ago from Dawn, continuing a tradition of finding a replacement to share the work. > #### 🎙️ What the format did for people > - Recording forces preparation and clarity: being recorded "makes you really sort of focus on actually really preparing and getting your thoughts into a good order." > - Value-add segment humanizes guests: "We purposely included a section value ads at the end where whoever was on the podcast could just share about what is currently adding value to their life." > - Practitioner Guides cited as the favorite series for its depth. > #### 📊 The stats segment > - ~37,000 downloads; ~28/episode average; ep. 31 top at 933 (marketing metrics, CHAOSS × GNOME × KDE); ep. 1 second at 586. > - First-90-days ~80–120 downloads; outliers ep. 31, ep. 103 (~281), ep. 30 (~258). Geography ~60% US / ~40% rest; Germany ~5%. Length mostly 20–50 min. > #### 🙏 Thanks to the editor > - Big shout-out to Paul Barr of Peach Tree Sound, who edited every episode; the running gag of "Paul just joined us" as the cue word for edits. > #### 🚀 What's next for each panelist > - Harmony: drive engagement, participation, diversity, and global expansion of CHAOSS chapters from the board; continue product/program management in open source and finance. > - Alice: continues FreeBSD Foundation work; now tracking the EU Cyber Resil Hi everyone, welcome back to Chaos Cast, the Chaos community podcast where we share use cases and experiences that measures open to us community health. On the panel today, we have me, Harmony Elendo, we have Mary Blessing, we have G link, we have Alice, and you yourself that's also listening, you're on the panel today. Thanks for joining in. Hi, Gil. How are you? Oh, doing good. Thank you, Harmony. Great to be with you again. Great to be with you all and recording today's episode. It's been a fun journey. I'm happy to reflect back on the past years of Chaos cast. I'm no longer on the board of Chaos. So, Harmony, congratulations on your election to the Chaos board. So, lots of things are happening. I'm happy to dive in. I'm going to pass it on to Mary Blessing. Welcome, Mary Blessing. >> Hi. Yeah. Thank you. I'm excited to be joining you all today panel talking about the exciting things happening in the chaos community and yeah really excited to go deep into the conversation and hi Alice. Hey everyone. Yeah, it's good to be back in the saddle recording another episode. Although this is going to be our last one for a while, it's always nice to tie on things and have a good conversation with friends and enjoy the memories that we've made. making the podcast. So yeah, really glad to be here. >> Hi everyone. It's quite emotional in the panel today and thank you for congratulating me. Again, just to introduce myself, my name is Harmony. I'm a project and product manager, a member of chaos board newly elected and also I lead the chaos technical writers focus group. It's a pleasure to have you today. This is going to be our last podcast for a while. just join us as we have various conversations around it. Hi Alice. >> Yeah. So I think we've several of us have alluded to the fact that this is going to be the last podcast for a while. We decided to do an episode to put a formal pause on the Chaos Card podcast by recording a special episode. So Chaos Cast will be taking an indefinite break and we have no current plans to restart it. And before we start the episode, I just wanted to take a few moments to share some thoughts with you on behalf of everyone who's been involved. So producing the podcast has been a really rewarding experience and we are grateful to everyone who's listened, contributed, and joined us in conversation over the years. At this time, however, we have not been able to determine that the podcast is delivering enough value to the community to justify the time and financial resources required to sustain it. But if there is a clear community need emerges in the future, we would be very excited to explore bringing it back maybe even in a new form. So until then, for everyone who has been listening and everyone who's been contributing, we send our thanks to you and grateful good wishes to you for being part of the chaos community that created Chaos Cast. And we still have all that wonderful back catalog. So Kcast has not been it's still going to be there forever for as long as we get the hosting right. So yeah that's where we're at with Chaos Cast. >> Thank you Alice for that brief intro deeply. Before we clock out we have a lot to talk about so that we would give you in depth of how far we've come where we are currently. We can't really tell you where we're going, but where we are now and we're going to have this conversation together with the people on the panel. Beginning with that, I want to talk about the history and I would want to call G to give us a brief history about Chaos Cast up to this time. >> Yeah, I'm happy to talk about our history with the podcast, how we came to create it and how it evolved over the years. The first episode we published on May 1st, 2020. That is now more than six years ago. So we've had quite a long run. And why did we start this in the first place? When we started the chaos community back, I think three years before 2017, we had a lot of conversations and a lot of people were looking at open-source community health and they were doing things and we were starting the chaos community to pull those efforts together and we had fantastic conversations within our working group meetings and we learned learned a lot from many different peoples and companies and what they were doing and how they were doing it, how they were thinking about metrics and analyzing projects and communities, what to do with it, how it drove decision making. And the question I always kept coming back to is how do we not just build out software and metrics and guides within the chaos community, but how do we share the experiences? How do we share the knowledge that people have gained? How do we share the community aspect of having these conversations and preserve it in a way that more people can join even when they're not in the meetings? At first, I thought, hey, let's have everyone write blog posts. And if you've ever tried to get people to write anything, it is really difficult. But we were able to have conversations and say, "Hey, let's jump on a Zoom call, have a conversation about what you're working on." And yeah, and then we started recording these as podcast episodes. And I was inspired by the Sustain OSS podcast. And huge shout out to what they're doing at the Sustain OSS community. And they had a sponsor and a network for podcasts. And so we started Chaos Cast as part of this podcasting network. It fell apart at some point, but Chaos Cast survived and I'm very glad for that. And there are many different things that we did to make sure Chaos Cast could survive for all these years, more than six years now. And I want to reflect on the very important decision at the very beginning to make this a community podcast. as the person who drove it forward. I could have said, "Hey, this is the GEOK podcast or the Metrics podcast by GIO or something like that." By making it the deliberate community podcast, we were able to keep the podcast alive. If it had been mine, it would have fallen apart and been done long time ago. It is a real community effort and we did this from the very beginning by having a logo contest. What should the logo be of the Chaos Community podcast? And if you listen to episode number 26, we interview Lewis Canastas who submitted the winning design. We also made sure to always have more than one organizer. So we started with three organizers and we always shared in the work of finding guests on discussing the topics and facilitating the conversations. I always always like to pull in community members. So we had the organizers that shephered the organizing getting guests, but then we also had panelists and bring in voices from the community so we can have a back and forth and a conversation. And I always like to not even plan out what we're going to say, just see where the conversation takes us. We had a few ideas of topics we wanted to touch on and then let the conversation unfold. So really the podcast was created with the intention I think we did a really good job at that of elevating voices of the community members and bringing the deep conversations that we had in the community preserve those and make them available more broadly. So that's kind of the background of how we started the podcast. >> Yeah, absolutely. you and everyone else did a very good job, you know, elevating the voices of community members. I personally been on the podcast a couple of times really found it very interesting sharing my experience to the Wilder audience and even though they are not in the room, it's really great. >> Yeah, it's actually very very great. The podcast has grown and not just grown as well, it has also educated people pass a lot of information. Personally, I learned a lot of things from speaking to guests, also learning things from a different perspective and all of that. The other things that stood out for me in the podcast were we had different programs that were chaired by either community members or people that had something going on. For instance, I led the 20 minutes with Chaos Africa. We got to understand how the people from the African continent contributes to metrics, their understanding and also the contributions that they did on the podcast and I think we even had the practitioner guide series as well. Yeah, there just like a lot and it was even fun organizing with Alice most of the time and it's been an amazing journey from it started before I joined the community and I've contributed squarely my own section of the puzzle up to this time and it's been beautiful as the word and moment. Yeah, it is. Yeah, there's definitely been a huge amount of value in its ability to build community despite whether it was getting the listenership and so on that we wanted it to. I think in the making of it a really excellent effect on building communities cuz I was asked by Dawn to take it on around probably about this time 2 years ago cuz she'd been doing it and I don't know when she started doing it but it seemed to me that there had been quite a tradition of finding a replacement or bringing someone on to share the work and I think it created a lot of you know finding the people to come on the podcast, thinking about what topics we could talk about, using it as a venue for sharing what had happened at events for talking in more depth about some of the work that had been going on that was written. So, the practitioners guides an example of that. new working groups that were coming up. And there's something about having to be recorded while having a conversation that makes you really sort of focus on actually really preparing and getting your thoughts into a good order and being able to ask if you're a host to ask good questions and if you're a guest to think about how you want to share the information that you have and how you want to have conversations with other people about the topics that you're talking about. And that is something unique that a podcast does. So I'm really glad that we have this huge back catalog of I think it's 132 episodes. This will be the 133rd, which is a great resource that will be there. Even if you're just listening, you will get to know the people of Chaos. And I think that was a really nice thing. Yeah, it's definitely been great. And for me, it was probably like one of the first things that I did on my own as an independent volunteer with open source. And so that was a great way for me to see open source at its best and volunteering at its best and the opportunity to work across so many different continents because we're involving the Asia chapter as well in some of the podcasts. So yeah, very nice experience for me personally. >> Thank you. >> Yes, thank you for taking over and driving the podcast. It all comes back to the people in the community. And I love what you said about how recording the podcast changes a little bit perspective because when I was at a conference and I was talking with people, I would come across someone who shared a really interesting story. I would be like, "Would you come on our podcast? I would love to hear you on the podcast." >> Exactly. recording the podcast and having that was always a another layer of connecting with people. And I think you can see that when you listen to our episodes, we always have the value ad at the very end. And we purposely included a section value ads at the end where whoever was on the podcast could just share about what is currently adding value to their life. humanize them and connect on a more personal level where we don't just talk about the heavy topics or the technical aspects but we get to talk about us. Speaking of talking about us if everyone listening I've noticed so far I think I'm like the neutral person here Alison how many have had to host the podcast over the years which is really beautiful. So I think this will probably be my fourth or fifth time coming back onto this stage and it's always humbling really. As a community member and contributor, I have enjoyed listening to this podcast but obviously not the ones I'm in cuz I find my own voice cringe when I listen to it after the recording is out. So I tend to listen to other and I think my favorite series has been the practitioner guide. there was just so much value in them. There's of course the blog post that Dr. D usually put together but even having her talk about the things their experiences and the entire Pat series has been very very wonderful. I also like the value ad. I sometimes I tend to like pick a few things about people when I hear them talk about value add bits. So that's really personal and I really enjoy that part of the podcast. not making it overly technical or overly serious, right? But also like helping me connect back to the people cuz chaos is so broad and I just feel like there's a lot of moving parts in chaos that I barely keep up with. feel like even hearing people talk about the things they do and how they've been using the resources that we have in the community, this podcast has definitely helped to bring those experiences forward even when I personally I'm not observing or I'm not seeing them. So there have actually been a lot of like highlights from folks both people that have been on the podcast and people that have been that have not yet been on the podcast. And for me personally beyond the value that the podcast actually creates there are also other interconnected values like I got to collaborate with others. We had beautiful moments that we shared and we get to like clen I also got to like collaborate and make friends with people. and a lot of amazing folks, right? So, it's not just about hosting the podcast or even organizing them. I think the part of organizing them is debating on the topic. The topic and to be very honest, we sometimes don't even know the title of the episode till after it's recorded. So, yeah, it's been fun. And yes, the value ads is something that I try to see if I can try something out over time. So, thank you for staying with us up to this moment. I think if we have more highlights to share, please don't share. >> I want to extend a thank you also not just to the panelists and the guests that we had and the listeners who've been part of the journey. I just want to give a big shout out to Paul Bar from Peach Tree Sound who edited every single episode and he always makes us sound professional and polished. And >> shout out to Paul. >> Shout out to Paul. >> Yes. >> Well, here's the thing. Okay, we start recording and then I say, "Okay, Paul just joined us." He's not actually in the Zoom call, but I said, "Paul just joined us and we can talk with him as if he was here. We can ask him to please take out when we stumble or when we want to >> There is the magic word that Elizabeth would say once you say that, Paul knows when to cut it off." >> Yeah. >> Oh. Oh, I did. >> So, as a listener, you have not heard those comments because Paul has dutifully and beautifully removed them, but he makes sure that the audio from our microphones sparkle in your headphones. So, Paul, thank you. I'm speaking to you directly. Thank you for being part of this journey. You've always had wonderful advice on how to position the microphone or how to get a better quality out or how to facilitate. I've learned a lot from you. So, thank you. >> Thank you, Paul. At least do you have anything to say? Special high. I feel like you have highlights, too. >> Oh, well, I'll add my thanks to Paul. Yes, he's been extremely supportive, way beyond what he needed to. And he even shared that he was a fan of Christmas crackers, which is not common in America. So, I was glad that he he was supportive of the mention that we had of Christmas crackers on one of our episodes. In terms of highlights, I think my main highlight has been just working with Harmony and everybody else together. That's been the best thing. But I really have enjoyed learning about new topics and so on. One episode that was a highlight, but I like things to be quite organized and things, but we did I think we did one episode that we may have been a Christmas special or it may have been the hundth episode, which maybe did come out around Christmas actually. And we had actually quite a lot of people on and it was like slightly chaotic, which you know is on brand, but that sort of stands out in my mind a little bit. So that was pretty nice. Thank you very much, Alice. It's actually a pleasure organizing the podcast, too. It's been a beautiful moment. So, let's look into our stacks so far that we've had in the podcast. Overall, we have have 37,000 total downloads over 832 episodes. And average, we have 28 downloads per episode. The most downloaded episode with 933 downloads was episode 31. about marketing metrics for open source foundation and projects. >> Oh yeah, episode 31 that was a good one. was about marketing metrics for open-source foundations and projects which resulted from a collaboration between chaos and Gnome and KDE where working with Shri Ram Krishna and Neo Kronis. We built out metrics for the Gnome KDE communities as a collaboration with Chaos. That was a fun one and yeah, super stoked. That was the highest downloaded episode with 933 downloads. >> What other stats do you have for us? >> The second most downloaded episode with 586 downloads was episode 1. Our hello world episode where we introduce chaos and the podcast. A new episode could get between 8 and 50 downloads on the first day and then fewer the following days. All thanks to you the listeners. With few exceptions, we kept the length of each episode between 20 and 50 minutes. Thank you for hearing our voice and enjoying the value that we provide on that one. By geography, Chaos Castle downloaded about 60% from within the United States and 40% in other countries. The second highest ranked download location is Germany with 5%. Big shout out to all of our listeners. Statistics per episode have been consistent throughout the six years of publishing the podcast. Within the first 90 days, an episode could be downloaded around 80 to 120 times. We have three clear outliner. Episode 31 that I mentioned prior before now was also downloaded 687 times within the first week alone. Another popular episode was episode 103 with 281 downloads in the first 90 days and episode 30 with 258 downloads in the first 90 days. All of this is because you saw value in what we share here and you've also listened to everything that we've spoken so far from our guest community members host organizers including Paul our editor all of this we say thank you. Thank you very much for being part of us up to this moment. >> I was wondering before we go into the value ads, >> okay, >> if I could ask what are you all planning to do next? Harmony, I assume you are going to be part of the chaos committee for quite a while. You just joined the chaos board. What's in your future within chaos and professionally? So personally as a member of the board there are a couple of things I want to drive in the community especially when it has to do with much more engagement community participation diversity and a lot more amazing stuff also pushing out chaos across the globe. We have been able to expand in a couple of chapters. I think we have about three. I think we can do more and we can preach more about open source across the world. not just about metrics itself which is our core primary objective on what we do here but also to bring folks from around the globe together to contribute to various projects be part of the community learn grow and improve personally in my career back to what I'm doing beyond contributing to open source I'm getting involved I'm doing more in managing product as a product manager managing technical projects and programs both in the open source industry and also in the financial industry. I'm always happy to join in or please share opportunities if there's any you love me to be part of especially within open source. I would love to work in open source and also things that woven around open source companies programs just a lot. I love contributing and I want to do that majorly as I grow in my career. Thank you. Hi Alice. What's next for you? So I'm very fortunate at the moment that since I started volunteering with chaos and also with the to-do group pretty shortly after that I started being paid for working in open source which was really such a privilege because all the money comes from donations and so that's working with the FreeBSD Foundation which is FreeBSD is an operating system and so I'm going to continue doing that. That work has recently taken me into some super super interesting areas. One is the EU cyber resilience act. So I'm now a bit of a geek about that particular piece of regulation and I've been going to Brussels from time to time. I think I'll be going again in September to catch up on like the latest developments of that coming into force or some parts of that coming in force. Also, another thing that's been pretty interesting is AI assisted vulnerability discovery in open source. So, I'm working with the FreeBSD project a little bit on that at the moment and that's being funded by a really interesting group in the Linux Foundation. It's actually part of Open SSF. It's called the Alpha Omega Project or Omega depending on how you like to say it. And that is a fund that's been provided by a number of the large tech companies to help open-source projects discover vulnerabilities before other people do using AI assisted tooling. And so that's been really really interesting as well, getting to to kind of see be on the front line of seeing what's going on on that side of things. And I definitely recommend anyone who's interested in that to check out the Alfa project. I'm still volunteering with a to-do group. I don't have anything going on for chaos right now, but I will be lurking at the very least and seeing yeah, seeing what's going on. That seems interesting. How about you, Mary Lesson? Yeah, I feel like Okay. I mean, congratulations on all of the wins. Yeah, for me is it odd if I say I don't know what I want to do. I don't know. But like just with um when he I know I want to stay longterm in open source but how to talk about that I have no idea yet but without a conference in the UK and one of the speakers talked about just keep on doing things and one day it will all make sense. So yeah I would just keep at it. I am still volunteering with chaos. However, there is the newly renewed grant from Sloan and I will be joined and rules and Evia to form the community management team with that grant. So, I'm really excited and looking forward to it. Hoping everything goes well. I do not currently have a full-time job. So yeah, just doing a bit of contract and looking up for a full-time role in open source on things around community management, engagement, programs management and other exciting things. I'm also looking to go get a degree in data science. That's been the highlights of this quarter for me. a lot of planning and looking out for school that I would really like to be a part of. So that's been the planning process for me. Yeah. I mean other than that things have been going really well. Also doing other volunteering research software communities and that has been really exciting. So I think that's all that's going on with me right now. Oh, so good to hear all the things you are up to and planning. I'm really excited for you all. I myself work with Petria came to an end at the beginning of this year. So, I have something new lined up. I'm not quite ready to talk about it at time of recording this episode, but maybe by the time we publish it, you can find out more on my LinkedIn profile. I'm quite excited about this opportunity where I get to take my experience from the technology side, from business, from community, and combine that all into a new role that I'm just super excited, but I don't want to spoil it right now. So, come follow me on LinkedIn and we can always have a chat. If anyone wants to connect personally, I do like having virtual coffees. just reach out and we'll find a time to sit down and catch up. Yeah. And with regards to chaos, it is time to pass on the baton. I'm very happy that over the last nine years that we have built the community. We're now at a point where we can elect board members. And so my term has ended and yeah, I'm happy to see what the next generation is going to make of this community. >> Thank you very much, G. And you should, if you're listening to this and you have like two minds in deciding if you're going to take GS over which is virtual coffee, I would tell you that it's fun. Do well to take advantage of it. Yeah. And it's time for value ads. And I would want to start with G. >> Well, thank you. My value ad for this time is Chaos Cast related. My husband of 10 years occasionally listens to Chaos Cast. And whenever he mentions, "Oh, I heard you on Chaos Cast again." And he starts talking about the things that we talked about on the episode. Every time it it just makes me feel loved. And it also feels me connected and that was a lot of motivation for me to keep going with recording Chaos Cast. So I know I had stepped away for a while from Chaos Cast, but that encouragement at home had me come back and rejoin the organizer. So my husband and the personal encouragements at home is what my value ad is. >> Thank you very much. G >> I can go next. But yeah, my husband is not getting a shout out. No, he's very he's very supportive. But if you wanted a shout out, I should have listened to the chaos cast and he didn't do that. So the sewing was fun, but the reaping not so fun. Okay. My value ad is international community. Finding international community. I have worked and also volunteered in open source and that has led me to connect with people from all over the world. So I regularly speak to people in Italy, Brazil, Ukraine, Canada, Finland, Nigeria, Taiwan, you know, I could Japan. I could keep going. There's nobody in Antarctica yet. So come on, open source groups in Antarctica. We need more from your content. But yeah, it's really amazing, really humbling to have the technology these days to build community across such huge distances and you know, I feel like I'm a real time zone ninja these days trying to organize people across different time zones as well. That's a skill I never thought that I would have. But yeah, it's been an absolute highlight of working first with multinational companies, but also with open source that spans across so many different countries and cultures. I think that's what I really like to hear about the different cultures. So yeah, that's been a great value ad to me. Yeah, I would just like to say like I share with Alice how value like open source has really connected me with a lot of people that I don't know if I weren't part of the open source ecosystem if I'll be able to like meet them and even like stepping out of my home country you know even visiting these other countries and connecting with villant minds within the opensource open science spaces has really been amazing. And of course, the time zone thing is always a struggle, but it's cute. I find it really cute. Yeah. But for this podcast, my value ad is just the excitement around planning a trip to a country that I've always wanted to go to and yeah, that's the excitement for me right now. >> I'm very much excited as you my blessing. It's been amazing connecting with people around the globe. My value ad is I have been reading about people's culture across especially countries I would love to travel to speak in continent I've never been to but I've spoken to people from there so I would love to visit various countries especially outside Africa and I would take opportunities that comes outside there especially if it's going to allow me try out foods I've read about recipes or cakes that Alice have send me pictures of that I never >> we have a foodie >> or dance with people strangers and party I think there's a lot of beautiful thing around the world and I want to not just read about them I want to experience them so yeah that's my value art so if you have the opportunity experiencing these things have me at the back of your heart because I'm chairing you by the side >> harmony my guest room is always available when you find yourself in the Midwest come on over. >> Yeah, we got an apartment. >> Yes, speaking of apartments, I just recently came across this platform that allows you baby seat people to stay in their house for free and eat free meals. So, I don't know if it's of interest to anyone out there, but you just thought about this. >> Please share the link also show help somebody me precisely or somebody else. Yeah, go ahead, Dallas. >> And so that is the end of today's podcast. For now, this is the last episode for some time. Thank you for joining us today and over the last years. We hope you enjoyed Chaos Cast as much as we did. Until next time, your Chaos Community., Episode 133: Until Next Time, youtube.com, 01kwj8k9zafznep0b7nc62ct6j.