Examining the Impact of AI on SEO  ## Metadata - Author: [[WP Minute Podcasts]] - Full Title: Examining the Impact of AI on SEO - Category: #articles - Document Note: --- tags: [SEO, AI, WordPress] author: [MISSING] source: YouTube reference: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYm9LpYi-zA] date created: 2025-10-06 00:00 --- # 🏷️ Title: Examining the Impact of AI on SEO ## 🧭 Table of Contents - [📝 Summary](#-summary) - [📖 Main Content](#-main-content) - [🗒️ Notes](#️-notes) - [📚 References](#-references) - [🗣️ Paraphrase](#️-paraphrase) - [📰 Newsletter](#-newsletter) - [✅ Action Items](#-action-items) - [🧪 Hypotheses](#-hypotheses) - [📊 Methodology](#-methodology) - [❓ Questions](#-questions) - [🔮 Future Research](#-future-research) - [💡 Implications](#-implications) - [🧠 Learning Styles Assessment](#-learning-styles-assessment) - [📊 Accessibility Assessment](#-accessibility-assessment) - [🌍 DEIB Assessment](#-deib-assessment) - [✅ Logical Validity](#-logical-validity) - [🛡️ DARVO Analysis](#-darvo-analysis) - [🎯 Conclusion](#-conclusion) ### 🔗 References - The video hosts on YouTube. We lack an official transcript. We therefore use timestamped notes. Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYm9LpYi-zA ## 📝 Summary - The video surveys AI’s impact on SEO. It emphasizes content quality and human context. [source](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYm9LpYi-zA) - It claims AI lowers top-funnel clicks but spares transactional intent. [28:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYm9LpYi-zA&t=1726) - It stresses Answer Engine Optimization and consistent publishing cadence. [08:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYm9LpYi-zA&t=510) - It highlights evolving attribution and fractional roles shaped by AI. [14:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYm9LpYi-zA&t=875) [23:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYm9LpYi-zA&t=1427) - Bottom line: Keep shipping helpful content. Add human framing. Diversify channels. Cite sources. ## 📖 Main Content - AI changes how searchers find and trust results. The speaker notes mixed effects. [source](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYm9LpYi-zA) - Helpful content still wins. Human context guides synthesis and trust. [06:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYm9LpYi-zA&t=386) - AEO mirrors classic SEO. Target nuanced questions and entities. Publish consistently. [08:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYm9LpYi-zA&t=510) - The funnel shifts. Top-funnel clicks drop. Mid-funnel remains steadier. [28:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYm9LpYi-zA&t=1726) - Budgets shift toward guidance and coaching on AI use. [20:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYm9LpYi-zA&t=1203) - Attribution grows complex. Teams must align channels and narratives. [14:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYm9LpYi-zA&t=875) - Note: We lack a posted transcript. We rely on provided timestamps. ### 🗒️ Notes #### ⏱️ Transcript mode enabled. Timestamps link to segments. ### [H1] AI reshapes SEO with challenges and opportunities #### ⏱️ [00:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYm9LpYi-zA&t=4) > [!quote] [Examining the Impact of AI on SEO](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYm9LpYi-zA) by an unnamed author via [[YouTube]]. Published [MISSING]. Accessed 2025-10-06. > “AI is reshaping SEO by creating both challenges and new opportunities.” Human editors should steer strategy and quality signals. [view highlight](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYm9LpYi-zA&t=4) #articleseed #xref ID:rw_[MISSING] ### [H2] Genuine audience content remains central to SEO #### ⏱️ [02:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYm9LpYi-zA&t=140) > [!quote] > “SEO thrives by creating genuine content for target audiences, despite AI advancements.” Prioritize expertise, helpfulness, and clarity over jargon. [view highlight](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYm9LpYi-zA&t=140) #articleseed #aphorisms ID:rw_[MISSING] ### [H3] Human synthesis complements AI monitoring #### ⏱️ [06:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYm9LpYi-zA&t=386) > [!quote] > “Human insight remains crucial in the evolving SEO landscape dominated by AI.” Use people for context, stance, and tradeoffs. [view highlight](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYm9LpYi-zA&t=386) #xref ID:rw_[MISSING] ### [H4] AEO aligns with classic SEO practices #### ⏱️ [08:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYm9LpYi-zA&t=510) > [!quote] > “Leveraging content creation is essential for ranking in AI search results.” Answer nuanced questions. Cover entities and intent edges. [view highlight](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYm9LpYi-zA&t=510) #articleseed ID:rw_[MISSING] ### [H5] Audience needs beat short-term tactics #### ⏱️ [12:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYm9LpYi-zA&t=759) > [!quote] > “SEO strategies should prioritize audience needs over short-term tactics.” Blend channel strategy and brand authority building. [view highlight](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYm9LpYi-zA&t=759) #articleseed #xref ID:rw_[MISSING] ### [H6] Attribution spans multi-touch journeys now #### ⏱️ [14:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYm9LpYi-zA&t=875) > [!quote] > “Attribution in marketing has evolved from simple metrics to complex multi-touchpoint journeys.” Adopt models that respect assisted conversions. [view highlight](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYm9LpYi-zA&t=875) #xref ID:rw_[MISSING] ### [H7] AI creates mixed effects for budgets and roles #### ⏱️ [18:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYm9LpYi-zA&t=1101) > [!quote] > “AI has mixed effects on SEO strategies and content creation.” Expect tool adoption alongside human oversight. [view highlight](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYm9LpYi-zA&t=1101) #xref ID:rw_[MISSING] ### [H8] Coaching clients on AI improves outcomes #### ⏱️ [20:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYm9LpYi-zA&t=1203) > [!quote] > “AI's impact on SEO highlights the need for human guidance.” Offer policies, prompts, and review cadences. [view highlight](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYm9LpYi-zA&t=1203) #articleseed ID:rw_[MISSING] ### [H9] Fractional roles expand with AI augmentation #### ⏱️ [23:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYm9LpYi-zA&t=1427) > [!quote] > “The future workforce will embrace fractional roles enhanced by AI.” Define scopes, deliverables, and continuity plans. [view highlight](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYm9LpYi-zA&t=1427) #xref ID:rw_[MISSING] ### [H10] Trust requires deep organizational understanding #### ⏱️ [25:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYm9LpYi-zA&t=1524) > [!quote] > “Future SEO strategies require deeper organizational understanding and trust.” Anchor work to three strategic priorities. [view highlight](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYm9LpYi-zA&t=1524) #articleseed ID:rw_[MISSING] ### [H11] Top-funnel clicks drop in AI answers #### ⏱️ [28:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYm9LpYi-zA&t=1726) > [!quote] > “Educational and informational content… has seen a 30-40% drop in click-through rates.” Treat as directional, not universal. Validate locally. [view highlight](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYm9LpYi-zA&t=1726) #xref #addendum ID:rw_[MISSING] ### [H12] Creators resist model training on their works #### ⏱️ [30:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYm9LpYi-zA&t=1836) > [!quote] > “Concerns grow over a more closed web as content creators protect their work.” Expect licensing, robots rules, and watermark debates. [view highlight](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYm9LpYi-zA&t=1836) #articleseed #xref ID:rw_[MISSING] ### [H13] AI assists shopping and troubleshooting journeys #### ⏱️ [34:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYm9LpYi-zA&t=2044) > [!quote] > “AI reshapes the online shopping experience through personalized assistance.” Design handoffs from assistant to cart gracefully. [view highlight](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYm9LpYi-zA&t=2044) #articleseed ID:rw_[MISSING] ### [H14] Ads and trust models will shift with AI #### ⏱️ [35:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYm9LpYi-zA&t=2141) > [!quote] > “AI's integration into SEO will significantly alter advertising models and consumer trust.” Prepare for PPC emphasis and scrutiny. [view highlight](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYm9LpYi-zA&t=2141) #xref ID:rw_[MISSING] ### [H15] Monetization of AI search remains uncertain #### ⏱️ [39:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYm9LpYi-zA&t=2364) > [!quote] > “Monetization remains unclear… Google temporarily sacrificing ad space for AI.” Model scenarios and - Summary: On this episode of The WP Minute+ podcast, Matt Medeiros and Pathfinder SEO’s Lindsay Halsey discuss the evolving landscape of SEO. They explore the importance of human connection in content creation, the challenges of attribution in SEO, and the emerging concept of Answer Engine Optimization. Lindsay emphasizes that while AI is reshaping search, genuine content and human expertise remain crucial for success. They also ponder the future of fractional work in the SEO industry and the ongoing debate between an open vs. closed web. - URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYm9LpYi-zA Lindseay Hollyy, welcome to the WP Minute. Thanks so much, Matt. Excited to be here. Second time guest, though. When I interviewed you, interviewed you the first time, it was on, uh, Marport, so I'm excited to always chat SEO with you, Pathfinder SEO. You sent me an email say, "Hey, um, you know, there's this thing called AI. There's this thing called SEO. The world is wondering, does any of this stuff even like matter anymore? websites, SEO. I'm sitting over here doing things like uh does uh what asking chat GBT is the best WordPress podcast the WP minute and why like trying to train it and see if it can up my chances at uh I think what's known as like geo these days. I don't know. Uh but for folks who don't know who you are and what you do, uh what do you do these days uh in SEO? I uh live in Basalt, Colorado and I work in search engine optimization. I've been in the field for about the last 15 years as an agency owner at Webshine and then also leading an SEO community at Pathfinder SEO. So, uh everything that's happening in AI right now is both sort of threatening my existence and also creating a tremendous amount of opportunity. Um, and there is a lot happening um, as AI sort of reshapes uh, the world of search. And so it's actually been a really exciting time lately um, to help clients uh, navigate uh, this transition and then also uh, to help other web designers and agencies as well. I you know honestly I think we probably talked about this on our last podcast. Um I do the things like just in terms of like word let's just like in the lens of WordPress the extent of my SEO uh strategy is to just like do the things that WordPress or maybe like an SEO plugin gives me titles description alt text on images. Uh, for me, I've never had an SEO strategy, which I know is like the worst thing, and I promise that there's a question here. Um, I've always just been like, I'm going to publish content cuz literally that's all I have time for, and then I'm going to ask people to like do the thing I need, which might be join the newsletter, uh, you know, become a a member of the WP Minute, or like get a sponsorship. And it's always been like this roll up my sleeves and do hard work and never really like think about maybe I could create like pillar content and like funnel all this stuff in to like a a lead flow process. I've never been I've never done that and I'm kind of reaffirming when I see things happening in chat GPT like results. It's like all blog posts that it's like recommending and I'm going, "Wait a minute. Is AI really overtaking this SEO thing?" And it seems like creating content is still the thing to do in terms of AI. I could be getting it all wrong. What's your take on how SEO is surviving in the world of AI? Great question. But to go back to your SEO strategy versus uh kind of what you're you're doing, I would argue that you are doing exactly what you should be uh to get found on Google, Yahoo, Bing, Chat, GPT, Gemini, Perplexity because you're doing a couple of things, right? And uh you don't really need to necessarily think about your pillar content and all of these kinds of things, but the number one thing is you're creating content that shares genuine expertise and experience for your target audience. So, you're serving your audience and uh and you're serving your audience with, you know, the right calls to action to join a newsletter, etc. And that's really what it's all about and that's what it's always been all about. Um, and a lot of these acronyms, SEO, AEO, GEO, and different things. um they're sort of distracting from what we're really trying to do on the web and through our content, which is uh to create helpful content that genuinely shares that expertise in a way that serves your target audience. So think you're already doing everything right. Um which is the good news and that uh SEO isn't dead and that content marketing isn't dead in this era. And in fact, what people want more than ever is to connect with the real humans behind a business and a brand. and that the learning language models and getting found on chat GPT or the search engine algorithms and getting found on Google, they're all still rewarding uh content as the backbone surrounded by uh you know this concept of expertise and authority and trust. So we also need to kind of get out there and not just create content but get out there and do so in a way um that echoes kind of the who behind the content and why we should trust it. Um, and that's probably bigger than ever right now because I know some people are reluctant to trust the AI and we still want to connect with that brand or that human. Yeah, I I I still off and on do the Matt Report podcast as just like an outlet of like I have a thought and I I want to publish it because I think it might be helpful to other people. And I mean, I know you've been saying it for years or a lot of people have been saying it for years, like connecting with humans, but now I it was a couple episodes ago. I'll try to link it up uh in the show notes of of this episode. But I'm just like now in the face of AI when people are just getting like summarized news content or like uh whatever like you know I do these daily I do I do these things just to experiment like what these AI platforms are doing with like Grock and chat GPT where you can set up the tasks for it to like do automatically every day. So I'm like if if AI is going to replace like what I do with the WP minute which is hey helpful news for WordPress for WordPress professionals like what's it going to be like if somebody just goes into chat GPT or Grock and say give me this on a daily update give me this on a weekly update I don't need to hear from Matt anymore because this thing will just tell me in a quick alert. Um, and I've been trying to test that and it is terrible. Like totally agree. It it has been giving me updates about WordPress news and it's the same thing every day. Automatic layoffs, automatic versus WP Engine and uh look at this security vulnerability and XYZ plugin. And and going back to the human side, I'm like, "No, like I I think I have a fighting chance here uh to like give people like a human synopsis of what's happening with with WordPress." Um I think it's kind of safe for a little bit. I I don't know if you see it trending in a different direction. I agree. I I see it trending in the same direction and I also have like the automated, you know, daily task, what's happening in the world of SEO, etc. to try to stay up on sort of the bits and pieces of things, right? So, the little bits of news that maybe the um search engines and chat GPT and everything um are going to surface for me can be helpful to keep my finger on a bit of the pulse. Um but at the end of the day, I really think there's there's this like human layer that that comes over that and starts to synthesize this information um and to share it. And um I think about like you know oped uh you know journalists in the New York Times and stuff. Why do I keep going back? Well, they help me make sense of the world and reframe pieces of news in a broader context. And so, um, yeah, I I still feel the same way, um, that we have pretty good job security in that, um, you can go and get a little digest of what might be happening in WordPress or SEO. Um, but to really frame it in the real world, you need uh that human connection part. Uh, that comes from talking to people and uh and being out there and also having some skin in the game and actually being in the industry space as well. Here's where I I feel like, and this is a bit of a um self-serving question, but some of the things I've been trying to evaluate on let's say chat GBT or any kind of AI result from Claude Grock, ChatgBT, whatever, um is it's it's almost to me anyway, it feels like the gamification of SEO on steroids, whereas like if I don't answer these kind of like I don't want to say hollow questions, but I feel like I have to then this is where I'm at with my head with with AI and and SEO. I feel like I have to now go and make a ton of articles about like freelancer questions in the WordPress space and just like pump all that content into the WP Minute so that I have a fighting chance to show up in AI. uh results um because of how much I still see it leveraging blog content and like you know whatever written content in general is that a fair assessment of what one should do if they want to start to rank in AI like I know it's like a gamification kind of thing but should I like sometimes I'm in the back of my head I'm like I should just be putting out a ton of content for this stuff just to have a chance to show up in in AI results you know knowing I don't want to do it. But I feel like God, I'm not going to have a fighting chance in AI if I don't. So I think you're going to have a fighting chance even if you don't like go headsirst into what what is really called answer engine optimization, right? So question and answer. And this concept of AEO or answer engine optimization has been around as sort of a subthread within SEO for a really long time because you think about what do people do on Google or chat GPT? A lot of times we ask questions uh and those questions are becoming um even more nuanced today when I expect uh the tool or the engine to be able to give me an output that is really specific to who I am and the situation that I'm in. And so when we think about this kind of era of answer engine optimization, I would argue it's kind of the same as if you had done this back when people also ask popped up on Google. Um is that the only way to get found in that era? No, that's not the only way to get found in that era and to be part of the conversation, but it is a tactic or something that we do weave into um a lot of our content, which is, hey, if we want to be helpful, a lot of times one of the ways we're helpful is we answer questions and we answer them uh in a succinct way at the beginning and then sort of unpack unpack the answer. And that basic format of question with a a brief answer and then the the full version, it still works in SEO. It still works in getting found on chat GPT. Um, it's part of answer engine optimization, etc. But I think it's uh it's not necessarily the kind of thing like clear your calendar tomorrow and go and pump out 50 uh, you know, question response style pieces of content. Um, but more, hey, how do I just weave this in when I'm already having a conversation or thinking about this thing or publishing this blog post? How do I weave this in as more of a tactic than an overarching strategy? Yeah, I guess when I was asking that question, I I forgot the feeling part of it. And the feeling like the reason why, and I know I'm not alone, maybe you've your clients ask you the same question, too. But like the feeling I have is well look if if if these chat bots are just going to give people a three paragraph or bulleted response of of an answer and they're never going to have a chance to go and actually like see my site uh or like see the other content that I do. it it's almost like I feel like well it's almost training me as a content creator to be like ah screw it like you know they just want me to answer a question I'll just answer a question uh you know just like when like I'm not a big like Tik Tok person or I'm not a I'm not a a person who creates content that disappears like I don't like the shorts I don't like content that disappears I like content that lasts but it's like kind of forcing me to feel like screw it I'll just I'll just answer the question for you like if that's what you want. Uh, and that's sort of like where I was going with that. Um, yeah. And I think in that moment, in that answer, you just see the bullet points or the very structured response or the snippet. But why does chat GPT or the learning language model, why does Google even look to you at all for that short version, etc. It's not because you asked a question and answered it in a really like formulaic simple way and then moved on to the next question. It's because there's this like whole cloud of expertise that surrounds you and your brand. And so really the world of SEO, the world of answer engine optimization or generative engine optimization, it's all converging. But again, at the end of the day, I always have a couple of gut checks of like am I playing towards the game or am I playing towards the audience? And we just constantly want to be pushing ourselves to playing towards the audience because your audience generally speaking doesn't change. It might evolve or grow, etc. But your audience is kind of the static piece of all of this. And we know that uh everything we do when it kind of makes real world marketing sense and you get that gut check of like, yeah, this is where I should spend my time. This makes sense or this actually impacts SEO and email marketing and social media and I'm on YouTube. It's it's omni or multi-channel, however you want to think about it. That's the type of work that's really having an impact today and I'll feel good about in the future. Whereas when we play into like the game and say, "Okay, divert resources here and go towards, you know, this sort of short-term tactic," that's the kind of stuff that um we probably won't be talking about the next time, you know, we're we're chatting on, you know, in in a podcast a year or two from now. Um attribution has always been a pain in the neck, right? Like for those just listening, Lizzie just had like a breakneck reaction like, "Oh my god, attribution." And and I remember again like careers at at Page and a podcast hosting company after that like we're in the marketing teams like we're always looking for attribution. Luckily we don't talk about that as much with Gravity Forms because the brand uh brand is pretty strong with Gravity Forms and that kind of leads me into like attribution for for these LLM responses must be I guess near impossible for most. So do you like when you're if your client ever asks like well how many are am I ranking in chat GPT like are they coming from chat GPT do you start shifting that conversation now to like brand sentiment and brand awareness more or is there like a particular term you lead with to say no it's the umbrella of everything now great question and I could chat about attribution probably for far too long um but again I want to put it in a frame of like over the course of time and that is I kind of think about basically when we all started getting invested in digital marketing, one of the big wins was this concept of attribution, right? And we treated things along the lines of like, okay, your Google ads campaign, you spent X and you got Y. Your SEO campaign, you spent X and you got, you know, Z. And we went through all of our channels. And just having the data was like magical, right? because this is coming out of, you know, an era of businesses investing more in print and uh and TV and commercials and different things, right? So, it felt like, oh my gosh, as marketers, this is the golden era. We have attribution and uh and I remember at the time I was going to like Google Analytics, uh conferences at Google, and there was just like so much resource being put into um getting your tracking set up so that you could just measure that experience perfectly and make business decisions based on it. And then we were like, wait a second, that's not really how the real world works, right? There's multi-touch point. So most businesses uh don't just engage with a visitor once to get the conversion, but they actually uh might have 10 touch points over like seven different channels, something like that on average, right? Where um you have to be in a lot of different places and in a lot of different times and really treat it more as a marketing acquisition funnel. And so we started trying to play around with different models to actually kind of you know bring uh that picture together and things got better and then we moved into this like cookie consent world where now we can't even track everybody if we wanted to. Um and so things got even muddier and along the way uh now we've layered in AI and we're saying okay this is getting even trickier because from an SEO standpoint it used to be increased rankings led to increased traffic led to increased sales. Simple story right? Well, now it's not nearly as simple even if we could track all of that perfectly because we know that people are interacting with our business and our brands in ways that never bring them to the website. And if we are shortsighted and we say it only counts if they come to the website, uh we may be actually like missing what's really happening there and what's leading to a sale might be really hard to measure. And so you're going to see and we already are um more emphasis on things like AI visibility, AI mentions, etc. Um how much are you part of the conversation that's being had out there and a little less weight on you rank, you know, number one for this keyword. So that's what we're seeing, but it's been part of this arc and trajectory of having to kind of um reduce that dependence on winning the session is the only victory. And so in the WordPress space, I think a lot of that also if you're working with clients, etc., it's helping clients understand what's happening here that we're not just measuring the success of an investment in any channel just based purely on sessions, but rather need to look at the business success as a whole. I had John Dohy on from Editor Ninja a few months ago and we're sort of like talking about like when he started, are you familiar with John's work in Editor Ninja? Okay. Um, so we're just talking about like he starts this like editing business or like call it a content business and all of a sudden Chat GPD comes out. He's like, "Well, now what the hell am I going to do?" Like this all now people are just going to be able to like create all this content. But it had like this inverse effect where customers were like, "Oh, great. We can go and make a ton of content through AI and now we'll hire John to fix it all." And I was kind of just like, "Well, that's interesting." uh how has how has AI affected your space where I think maybe now a lot of people can go well I'll just I'll just ask ChatGpt to I'll just send my sitemap.xml uh through chat GPT and have it do keyword uh you know metadata descriptions and titles and all this stuff like how has AI impacted you positively or negatively through this sort of like roller coaster ride we've had for the last couple of years. Great question. And the answer is it's sort of a mixed uh a mixed bag where you know on the agency side we've had a couple of clients pull back their budgets because they're like hey I'm going to go have AI write my blog post so we don't need your copywriting or um you know they're just like hey we're going to try to you know I can put into AI create an SEO strategy outline it into bullet points what I should do etc. And so there's a percentage of businesses have that have made that decision and we've witnessed I'd put it in the like 5% range. So pretty pretty small of people really pulling back and basically replacing us with a role like treating AI as a role and so replacing our role. More often we're in more of John's, you know, world where clients are leaning in and trying to use it as a tool. Uh and they're using it as a tool but they're realizing there's still a role to be had. And so where it's used as a tool, it's like an accelerator to create that first draft of content, but then actually might create more work um for the editing side. So we we see that human role still playing a lot. So for us, it's a lot of um you know coaching and education with clients. What are we seeing in a AI? How are we using it? What's the opportunity space look like? How do we think they should um you know get as much value and accelerator out of AI as they can without uh you know losing that value and that that human touch. Um, so it's a little bit of a kind of a mixed boat, but right now we're seeing the swing pretty quickly this year come back into more demand for services and people saying, "Okay, SEO isn't dead, and what I did before probably needs uh to be refined or improved upon, and now I want to get found uh on Google and chat GPT and Gemini and Perplexity, and I need somebody, a strategist to kind of lead that for us." So, we're seeing um kind of that demand pick back up here and uh and people to say, "Hey, that the tooling is great, but um just like there's been a lot of bad SEO work out there over the years, now you see a lot of bad AI um kind of fueling people's SEO strategy and and the smart businesses and brands are staying away from that." So, I have two next questions. Uh the second question is how uh people interact with your service. But the first question is who is the best customer uh or what's the best customer fit? What's your best customer avatar that you like to work with um for SEO stuff? And then how do you work with them after that? Good question. So, uh that's always been a challenge for um both Pathfinder and our agency because we actually like working with a lot of different like audiences and customers. uh because I always feel like I kind of keeps my like thinking hat on. Um and I just intrigued by different people's businesses and business models etc. and layering in the SEO. Um at our agency we work with a lot of local and small businesses and what I like there is that we can have impact quickly. Um so for us that's sort of the fun and so when we think about that small business um or local business mindset um we see them confi you know constrained on budget and how much time they can put in wearing a lot of hats so they're going to like kind of come in and come out of um being able to think about SEO or Google ads etc. Um and how we can help them have a really focused budget um and take it as far as as they um can and and drive as much reach. Um, at Pathfinder, our SEO community, we work with those local business owners, too, that are kind of taking a DIY approach to all of this. Um, but also like working with fellow web designers and agencies. And so, in that case, we're talking about people that want to serve their clients better, build their recurring revenue and evolve their SEO strategy as SEO is evolving. Yeah. and sort of that was like setting the stage for this uh other like thought that I have and especially coming out of that conversation with John um and other folks you know and then of course like all the headlines of AI is replacing all of us will we have jobs in you know 5 years what I'm thinking is is my theory is is like maybe there'll be more of an acceptance to fractional work where somebody will hire you because you are the expert in SEO. Uh, and of course on the agency side as well, but if we're just talking SEO, like somebody wants that person who's like, uh, leading like to 10% like I I I'm ahead by 10%. Like, sure, LLM can tell you this stuff, but that's still dated. I'm out here at the at the tip of the spear, and that's where you need me. Maybe you don't need me full-time. Um, but I think people will be more open till fractional. I it's weird to say because like yeah people hire other people all the time but I also think like people hire other agencies and they it it feels temporary because usually it is it's like a project but I think what the workforce will shape up to is yeah I got this team of of fractional people. They're with me long term. Um they're not full-time but they are fractional and they and we all kind of understand that we treat it as like a full-time thing. I don't know if that makes sense but that that's where I think we're headed. I don't know what your thoughts are on like the future of the workforce because of AI. Yeah, I mean the future of the workforce because of AI is like such a huge topic and something Yeah. to think about and is really interesting. But that is what we're seeing is sort of that hey if you are kind of um you're looking for like coaching or consulting or somebody to kind of give you that assurance you're moving in the right direction or you know a lot of the questions are like well what are the next three things I should focus on and so yeah the AI and the tooling out there can give you you know the big picture can craft a strategy can bullet point out everything but adding in that sort of uh expert experience uh piece where you can come in and really think critically about what you see in the industry space and what you're seeing in that business and be the one that puts those two things together. I still think that's a pretty unique skill set um and being able to distill that and communicate it etc. And so with a lot of web designers, a lot of what we've worked on on if you're offering SEO services is how do we move from tactics to getting strategic? Like how do we get closer into a client's business, understand where they are today and where they're going to try to go and know what are the three things we need to do to get them there? It's probably not fix your XML site map, right? Like the three things that you need to do are not shortcuts or they're not small like SEO things that get found in a scanning tool. the three things um are bigger things, but they need somebody else out there um to come in and be able to highlight, identify, and help kind of guide the team in that direction. Yeah. Yeah. I I think I sometimes look at it in the lens of like remember when um like all like the big work from home boom came because of COVID and all this other stuff, but then there was all like these headlines of people who were working multiple jobs, you know, like they're a developer at like four different companies, right? which is obviously illegal, but I think what'll happen is like one of the things I think of is it's like, well, that's like a trust thing. Um, and when you hire, let's say if you're just hiring someone to build a website and the person comes in to build a website and they ask you like, what's the revenue, what's the health of the company? You're like, what are you asking me this for? Like, I just need you to build me the website. I think a future is it's fractional work but you as the fractional worker are going to feel more embedded in that organization and that organization will trust you to to like pay you more but also realize you've got four or five other big clients you know that otherwise you'd have a full-time job doing right so I I don't know it's just like this crazy thought that's always kind of going on in my head especially for the work that we do anyway I don't I don't know about anybody else but Yeah. And in our space, like pretty much all of our, you know, business success has has landed on um creating relationships and getting closer to clients and being able to um become part of a business's organization. And so, we were having that conversation this morning, you know, within our team, like what conferences are we going to go to this fall, etc. And one of the takeaways was like we want to go and be where our customers are. So like actually going with a team, a marketing team that's in house and we come in as that fractional kind of role. Why don't we go and you know attend this travel symposium conference and hear what they're hearing and get out in that space um as a way of leaning in to understanding our clients businesses, their challenges, their industry trends. because at the end of the day, anything that we're suggesting that's going to help them in this very big space of um getting found online uh is going to need to be framed within that broader context of what's happening in their industry and in their business. So, obviously those are big budget clients that you can do that kind of thing with. Um local businesses, you can't necessarily do that, but you can still get in there and ask better questions, right? More about the business and a little less about like, do you like a blue logo or a purple logo, etc. Yeah. Yeah. uh give me chills thinking about agency days. Um um websites, will they stand the test of time? Will they be important as LLMs and and whatever AI throws at us next? Uh will they still be important in the future iterations of technology? I still think the answer is yes to that. Um obviously that could change in time, but still investing in website as sort of the hub of your brand's identity online. um where you share that content and then get it out beyond um kind of your website and your presence. I still think that is um key to the the overarching kind of uh way that the learning language models get trained and uh and Google gets trained. So without the website like what trains up uh you know these tools and right now what we're seeing if you think about your traffic as being in a funnel the upper funnel is sort of what we've been talking about like educationoriented content questionoriented content etc. That's what in our current era has been hit the hardest um with these changes Google's AI mode and AI overviews and um and and those generated response from AI. Uh but that being said that's because that's informational. As soon as we start to get a little more transactional and move down the funnel and you're actually getting in like a shopping or a buying mindset, people are starting to go back and interact with the brand. So, click-through rates at the top of the funnel are down like 30 to 40% for most businesses in that kind of blog oriented content. But in the middle of the funnel, the keywords that um where somebody is ripe for your product or service and sort of ready to do business, those aren't really being impacted because the transaction is still happening on the website. And so, you know, I think uh in this era, just like we wondered like would social replace SEO at one point and Google like could a social channel become the way we connect with all information? It just reshaped things a little bit, but they still stood the test of time. Um, and so AI is probably even bigger um than what we would have been talking about when when social was really taking um its roots. But that being said, um I'm still uh investing heavily in uh in our own website, in content on our website, etc. as sort of the hub of the ecosystem um around which everything else is sort of happening. Do you see it as somebody who's been doing this for a a while and you've seen so many websites and uh you know more I guess esoterically like how Google has impacted like web open web and and content and and publishing. Do you see a more closed web coming because people actually don't want LLMs to to ingest that data? Like if you thought of your website as a database of like all the stuff you just said, it's like it's everything about us. It's about our process. It's how you you you know experience us. If I'm a brand or a personal brand, big brand or personal brand, as my database and you know what, maybe I don't want these LLMs coming in. Do you do you see a world where maybe it gets a little bit more closed web than open web for lack of a better phrase? You do and you can already see it happening. I mean, we've seen in the news news organizations coming after the learning language models and saying, "Hey, you can't train up on my content." Um, that's, you know, not okay. And if you're an author or publisher, that makes sense. Um, I just had a call with an artist and she said, "Well, I'm fine if the learning language models study up on my written content, but I don't want them to have any access to my images because I don't want them to be able to recreate my art, my actual like work product that I sell, um, with AI. I don't want to be in that world. I don't want them to be able to get trained on my work. And so you start to get into a lot of these nuanced situations where you can imagine a world where you're like, no, I was good with Google getting its hands and showing me as a snippet and showing my reviews and all of these things. Um, but I am not okay with uh, you know, my my actual work product or creativity etc. getting replaced um, or getting included and then sort of morphed into something else. So yeah, that's I think the big world we live in is having to make that decision for, you know, nine out of 10en businesses. Um, right now they want to get found in chat GPT. They want to be in the conversation and they're looking for that cited link. And so that once we can measure a little bit better than we can today, that AI visibility, that'll be really reassuring. Um, but at the end of the day, yeah, for most businesses, they kind of want to be in there. So they're they're letting their content, their websites, etc. get the full um get the full crawl so to speak. funny you know I don't often sometimes like I I have trended more to using chat GPT for questions like the typical thing I would normally Google I would switch to chat GPT now I think in the back of my head it's because I pay for it so therefore I'm using it like I'm I'm forcing myself to use it because I pay the uh 20 bucks a month. Um but that's not the question. The question is is like sometimes when I search things I don't often see a cited thing unless I ask it like unless I and it could be maybe it's just on the mobile phone is different from the desktop which is like I guess a whole other topic but is there like some formula to always see the cited material because sometimes it just spits me out an answer. Good question. I think it depends on what you're searching for um and and how to get more cited links. I do in my chat GPT get a lot of cited links especially if I push it show me the source or whatever. Um, and so maybe there's a little bit of kind of I've trained up my uh $20 a month subscription because I'm in chat GPT like you are as like kind of the primary hub. Um, but uh that being said, my experience recently was sort of um one of the first times I actually made a purchase and I came from ChatGpt and that was my computer was running slowly and I was frustrated and uh there's nowhere near me in this rural mountain town to actually take a computer and be like, "Can you speed this thing up? I'm not ready to throw it in the trash can and I'm not overly technical and so I turned to chat GPT this time instead of Google because I knew I could give it screenshots of a couple different things um share my nuanced information and be like what do you think is happening here and I did that and it walked me through okay can you go and grab these things too and let us help you diagnose and then it gave me a rated response we think this is the biggest problem and the next biggest etc. But then it gave me you need to go buy memory. Here's your computer. Here's where you should buy it. And a link over to a website. So I clicked the link. I got there and a little chatbot said I saw you just came from uh chat GPT. Would you mind what keyword you just put in? And I'm like what keyword? I've been in this like conversation. There have been screenshots, etc. I can't tell you the like sixword phrase that brought me into your website, but I get that you'd like that information. But I did end up buying the memory installing it. My computer is better. That all took place over like 10 minutes, right? And so the cited links I'm finding in chat GBT and just in AI general come when you're ready to get towards you know that that transaction. And I think to me what's also like really interesting right now is okay where's shopping going with all of this because that is transactions are something we end up you know that that piece is a big part of the ecom world. Um, so yeah, we're thinking about the ecom world and then where are ads going to fit into all of it because um we know that that ad monetization um you know must be coming in some ways some form and Google's only going to be willing to give up so much revenue to AI overviews and AI mode um without layering in um a pay per click or pay per experience. Um and so yeah, there's a lot there's a lot still coming. Yeah, like the ad model I think is really gonna change perception. This would be like a three-hour podcast if I had all of my not conspiracy theories, but like like I'm just sitting back going like I I I kind of like this stuff, but I'm also very very skeptical about like the business model and what's happening. And I feel like we already saw this just happen with chat GPT5 and not being as mindblowing as they were kind of saying it was going to be for like the last year. Like when Chad GBD4 came out, everyone's like, "This is pretty good." Like look at this. And then it was like, "But wait till Chad GBD5, you know, and then we got five." And it was like going from my iPhone 15 to a 16. I was like, "What did I I just spent $1,000, you know, on on basically a new battery." like that's exactly what I got was a fresh battery. Um, so I'm like super skeptical. And then when you bring in the the ads, what does that do to the consumer and the trust um that has like I don't even like the fact that it learns and has a memory of things that I talk about because I don't want you to be influenced. I want you to just tell me the smartest answer, you know? It's like having that friend that tells you what they think you want to hear versus having a friend who tells you what they actually think. Um, yeah, the AI it's like really interesting. I feel like you have to steer the ship and uh and control the memory a little bit as much as you can and uh to get the best kind of output and push it to go against you a little and to and to give you the other thoughts and things. So yeah, I mean there's so many uh amazing components to it where like wow this is like fabulous. It just saved me a ton of work. But again, I'm still treating it like that calculator back, you know, when you were in high school where it's not, you know, who gets the best score on the test or, you know, comes up with the outcome. It's not the tool, it's the it's the human behind it. And I think we're still even in this era where the AI feels enormously powerful. Um, you know, that that human behind it. And so just, you know, we keep kind of hitting hard on things like human centered AI supported as kind of our like approach to SEO and things like that. Um, but yeah, this is all very dynamic and I agree with you on the chat GPT5 thing. Like I don't even really notice the difference. Um, I tried that. I tried that and this stuff. Yeah, this is interesting for like even your business and and maybe you you've already had an experience with it, but like chat GBT for example is like we'll call it an operating system onto itself where there's like so many features and so many things that that can be done where your clients might be like uh how do I get placed in that? So, right, whatever. Regular search uh on chatgpt uh research mode on chat GPT. But I tried out the agent mode the other day. Yes. Cuz I was like, well, I got 10 year anniversary coming up with for my wife and I and I was like, find me uh three options for a romantic getaway on Cape Cod because I'm I'm out in Massachusetts. So, whatever. I see it browsing. I see it doing its whole thing. It was like 22 minutes or something like 25 minutes it took to like do all this research come back and I was like if I brought my wife to any of these places that you recommended I would be in trouble because it was like one is like a motel six like how did you even how did you even do that? Like I thought you were supposed to Yeah. Yeah. And I and I was just like thinking about like so many ways to interact and so many ways to show up that I don't know what they're going to do when it's like if in agent mode recommend this brand which paid us $1,000 to show up in agent mode. It's just like what's happening? Yeah. I mean, where is the monetization ultimately? We know that the um you know, it's really enormously expensive to run all of this technology. Yes. And yet we don't quite have a full picture. Like right now it feels like Google is willing to give away some of its ad real estate with the AI mode and AI overviews. Um because it's got to stay competitive. It's got to try to retain its user base. Um and it'll solve for the paid side of things later. Um but yeah, what will what will chat GPT and and everybody else do? Um and where where will things be able to be bought? Um it's enormously complex, but at the like foundation of where are we today and what are we investing in and what are we seeing work, we're still seeing basically like that foundation of what you do to get found. Um what your SEO strategy looks like today is kind of both uh like glass half full half empty. The half full is like it's harder to win the click, right? You're you're not getting always cited. sometimes your information feels like it's being like ripped off and it's in the, you know, AI and you can see it, etc. So, in some ways, the game has gotten enormously, you know, more challenging to win the click. And on the other hand, on the optimistic side of things, um, your audience hasn't changed. They still want that human connection. And what you do for SEO is helping you now with this enormous emerging space, right? So we know if we invest in getting found on Google, we are as a byproduct investing in getting found on chat GPT Gemini Perplexity. We don't need two different marketing departments to handle this or two different campaigns. And that's the part I like right now is at least I feel like when I'm investing in um this kind of foundational real world SEO work that's worked, you know, last year and years past is continuing to work this year. It's kind of a rising tide that's lifting all boats and helping me, you know, in this whole new space, in this brave new world. All right. For the listener that has a website, they've been doing some some content stuff like I've been doing and we feel like we're in a semicomfortable place, like we're not brand new and we've got stuff for sale, we're doing some content things. What can they do right now to sort of prepare themselves for AI SEO? And then how can they up their game by hiring you or working with your agency or working with Pathfinder? The number one thing I think is to showcase the who behind the content. Um so whether you're an individual business um or a bigger brand, uh a lot of times our websites uh make us look like big businesses, right? It's like we're a little step removed um and and behind a door. But the more you can let humans shine through in your website, the better right now. And that really resonates with this idea of human first kind of approach, audience first. But that's what people want to connect with. And so it can look like a lot of different things. It can look like going back to your old blog posts and weaving in a personal introduction or story to something that then gets very formulaic and like kind of more how oriented or maybe something you really did create kind of with SEO in mind. layer in the who behind the content. Make sure an author is tied to the blog post and the author has an authorship page on your website that showcases who they are um and makes you feel like you can connect with them. So, anytime you can do that, add testimonials to, you know, web pages, get more Google Maps reviews, um and showcase them in more places, uh that that piece of showcasing the who behind the content is probably the number one thing we're seeing work. um for businesses that have already gotten past kind of just the the SEO basics and uh and have a bit of a content library out there, a bit of a presence. And I know when I even look at our websites, which we've built and redesigned even in the last year or two, I go back in and I can just label on like so many pages where we could shine through as humans more um taking away stock photography, all of these kinds of things. Uh and that at the end of the day I think is a really good way to futureproof our work while still resonating with what's working today. Awesome stuff. And then they can uh take it to the next level by uh join joining uh Pathfinder SEO, right? And that's a monthly sort of guided SEO experience. Yeah, we call it guided SEO. Um it's for business owners, web designers, agencies, um anyone who wants to kind of evolve as SEO evolves. And uh and we do this um with courses and checklists, you know, sort of that basic training material that helps you go from learning to doing. Uh but also with open office hours, we can come and ask questions um and learn from others and hear what other people are experiencing and seeing, etc. Uh and uh and so we've got that coaching and then we've got discussion threads in there as well um that kind of help people stay up to date. Um but yeah, to me really the the best part of Pathfinder is really that place to go. um and ask questions and see uh not just how chat GPT answers uh but rather how do real humans who do this all day every day um you know look at a problem, think about a problem, solve it, take action, etc. Lindsay Hollyy, thanks so much. Pathfinder SEO.com. Any other URLs you want to plug? That's perfect. Uh thank you so much, Matt. This has been fun., Examining the Impact of AI on SEO, WP Minute Podcasts, 01k6x7hpntd3dgtzkge6phze0c.