Is Cracker Barrel a JS Framework?  ## Metadata - Author: [[Whiskey Web and Whatnot: Web Development, Neat]] - Full Title: Is Cracker Barrel a JS Framework? - Category: #articles - Document Note: --- tags: - #javascript - #branding - #ux - #podcasts - #aiethics - #opensource - #devrel - #ospo Author: Robbie Wagner & Adam Argyle (Whiskey Web and Whatnot) Source: YouTube — Whiskey Web and Whatnot Reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxQpEZmVb1Q date created: 2025-09-11 12:00 --- # 🎧 Title: “Is Cracker Barrel a JS Framework?” — Whiskey, Web, and the Copy-Paste Aesthetic ## 🗂️ Table of Contents - [📝 Summary](#-summary) - [📚 References (inline)](#-references-include-a-list-of-sources-consulted-and-cited-in-the-article) - [📖 Main Content](#-main-content) - [🗒️ Notes (Deep Outline w/ Clickable Timestamps)](#-notes-deep-outline-w-clickable-timestamps) - [📖 References (Consolidated)](#-references) - [🗣️ Paraphrase](#-paraphrase) - [📰 Newsletter](#-newsletter) - [✅ Action Items (Aligned to DevRel & OSPO goals)](#-action-items-aligned-to-devrel--ospo-goals) - [🧪 Hypotheses](#-hypotheses) - [📊 Methodology](#-methodology) - [❓ Questions](#-questions) - [🔮 Future Research](#-future-research) - [💡 Implications](#-implications) - [🧠 Learning Styles Assessment](#-learning-styles-assessment) - [📊 Accessibility Assessment](#-accessibility-assessment) - [🌍 DEIB Assessment](#-deib-assessment) - [✅ Logical Validity & Tone (+ Fallacies)](#-logical-validity--tone--fallacies) - [🧭 DARVO Scan (Detailed)](#-darvo-scan-detailed) - [🔍 SEO Evaluation](#-seo-evaluation) - [🎯 Conclusion](#-conclusion) ### 🔗 References: Include a list of sources consulted and cited in the article. - Primary: YouTube — “Is Cracker Barrel a JS Framework?” (Whiskey Web and Whatnot) — https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxQpEZmVb1Q ## 📝 Summary - 🔹 **Premise:** A freewheeling episode pairs whiskey tasting with commentary on web dev trends, branding sameness, AI safety, nostalgia, parenting, and life logistics. - 🔹 **Core Analogy:** Cracker Barrel’s “modernization” spree mirrors frameworks copying each other (e.g., “hooks everywhere”), risking sameness over fit. - 🔹 **Why you care:** It’s a case study in **trend adoption vs. contextual problem-solving**, useful for OSS design, WordPress contributor guidance, and OSPO policy on responsible AI UX. - 🔹 **Ethics thread:** Cautions against chatbot “therapy”—safety, duty of care, and sycophancy risks. ## 📖 Main Content - 🔸 **Branding & Frameworks:** Minimalist rebrands can signal currency yet flatten identity. Similarly, frameworks adopting hooks by default may ignore situational fit. - 🔸 **Attention Economics:** Outrage marketing can spike visibility; incentives reward controversy more than craft. - 🔸 **AI & Care:** Chatbots may validate instead of challenge. Guardrails, escalation, and human oversight are non-negotiable. - 🔸 **Nostalgia & Constraints:** Physical media and LAN play foster social presence, ownership clarity, and productive constraints—design lessons for DX. - 🔸 **Everyday Heuristics:** Plant care, lawn battles, and family ops translate into maintainable product ops: simple checks > fancy dashboards. ## 🗒️ Notes (Deep Outline w/ Clickable Timestamps) > Each subheading links to the exact YouTube moment. Bullets include fine-grained observations, themes, and takeaways. #### ⏱️ [00:00–00:12 · Cold open & cross-podcast gags](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxQpEZmVb1Q&t=0) - 📝 **Bit:** Rapid-fire intros name-drop other shows; sets playful, meta tone. - 💬 **Tone:** Self-aware humor; breaks the fourth wall early. #### ⏱️ [00:23–01:13 · Show premise & whiskey shtick](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxQpEZmVb1Q&t=23) - 🥃 **Format:** Whiskey + web chat; expectations: laid-back, candid hot takes. - 🎙️ **Hosts:** Robbie Wagner; Adam Argyle co-hosting (Chuck referenced later). #### ⏱️ [01:14–02:03 · Whiskey pick: WhistlePig 10 Rye](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxQpEZmVb1Q&t=74) - 🧾 **Label facts:** 10-year, 100 proof, blend of straight ryes. - 🧪 **Expectation setting:** Proof and age prime tasting notes discussion. #### ⏱️ [02:04–03:51 · Tasting as UX: color/OKLCH & “the house” metaphor](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxQpEZmVb1Q&t=124) - 🎨 **Color nerd-out:** Transparency, “OKLCH value,” aesthetic signals. - 🏠 **Metaphor:** Smell = curb appeal, first sip = foyer, finish = hidden rooms; design takeaway: **progressive disclosure** in UX. #### ⏱️ [03:52–05:23 · Palate notes & playful derail](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxQpEZmVb1Q&t=232) - 🌶️ **Notes:** Sweet, peppery, licorice hints; “carpet” joke extends house bit. - 🧯 **Temperature:** “Fall whiskey,” toddy-friendly; “hug” callback to Chuck. #### ⏱️ [05:24–06:51 · Rating system (0–8 tentacles)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxQpEZmVb1Q&t=324) - 🧮 **Scores:** ~6.5/8 from both; “would drink again.” - ⚖️ **Scale humor:** “Zero = give it to my enemy” balances levity with signal. #### ⏱️ [06:52–09:10 · Plant care heuristics 101](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxQpEZmVb1Q&t=412) - 🌱 **Checks:** Touch topsoil; lift-pot weight test; read leaf edges. - 💡 **Ops analogy:** Cheap, reliable indicators beat vague instructions. #### ⏱️ [09:11–10:00 · Bottom-watering & wicking trick](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxQpEZmVb1Q&t=551) - 🧵 **Wick method:** String into reservoir; plant self-regulates intake. - 🧰 **Systems lesson:** Build guardrails that make the “right thing” easy. #### ⏱️ [10:01–11:37 · Vet dental bills & risk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxQpEZmVb1Q&t=601) - 🐶 **Costs:** Cleaning ~$1.3k; extractions ~$3k per dog; infection risk. - ⚕️ **Trade-offs:** Preventive care vs. catastrophic future spend. #### ⏱️ [11:38–14:49 · Insurance denials & pre-existing conditions](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxQpEZmVb1Q&t=698) - 📑 **Case:** Imaging found spinal issues → later claims denied. - 🧭 **Lesson:** Policy timing/definitions dominate outcomes. #### ⏱️ [14:50–16:29 · Two-dog dynamics & anxiety expectations](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxQpEZmVb1Q&t=890) - 🐕‍🦺 **Reality vs plan:** Companion dog didn’t solve anxiety fully. - 🔄 **Analogy:** Team scaling ≠ automatic productivity gains. #### ⏱️ [16:30–19:39 · Cracker Barrel rebrand ↔ JS trend-chasing](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxQpEZmVb1Q&t=990) - 🍽️ **Claim:** “Sexy minimal logos” and “hooks everywhere” = sameness. - 🧭 **Caution:** Copying signals without fit analysis erodes identity. #### ⏱️ [19:40–21:07 · Outrage marketing & attention incentives](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxQpEZmVb1Q&t=1180) - 📈 **Hypothesis:** Bad press still drives traffic; controversy converts. - ⚠️ **Risk:** Short-term attention can damage long-term trust. #### ⏱️ [21:08–24:04 · JNCO/‘Jenko’ nostalgia & cycles](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxQpEZmVb1Q&t=1268) - 👖 **Fashion loop:** Brand boom-bust; teens re-adopt 90s looks. - 🔁 **Design echo:** Tech repeats styles; context gets lost. #### ⏱️ [24:05–25:36 · Retro consoles & Analog 3D](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxQpEZmVb1Q&t=1445) - 🎮 **Appeal:** Nostalgia + modern QoL (wireless controllers). - 🪪 **Ownership:** Physical carts → easy sharing, clear rights. #### ⏱️ [25:37–28:28 · Cartridges vs downloads](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxQpEZmVb1Q&t=1537) - 💾 **Gripes:** “Card” that triggers download feels like pseudo-ownership. - 🧩 **Design note:** Ownership clarity drives satisfaction. #### ⏱️ [28:29–29:56 · LAN parties & effort-as-fun](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxQpEZmVb1Q&t=1709) - 🧑‍🤝‍🧑 **Social glue:** Setup friction creates memorable rituals. - 🧱 **Constraint:** Useful constraint → better experiences. #### ⏱️ [29:57–33:00 · AI therapy: safety failures & sycophancy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxQpEZmVb1Q&t=1797) - 🧠 **Concern:** Guardrails bypassed; harmful guidance risk. - 🪞 **Sycophant effect:** Chatbot flatters → users feel “seen,” unchallenged. #### ⏱️ [33:01–34:29 · Credit & agency: God, AI, and effort](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxQpEZmVb1Q&t=1981) - 🧭 **Point:** Humans did the work; tools assist, not replace. - 🧪 **Epistemic clarity:** Don’t misattribute cause. #### ⏱️ [34:30–37:05 · Family TV & AFV nostalgia](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxQpEZmVb1Q&t=2070) - 📺 **Media picks:** South Park; America’s Funniest Home Videos. - 😄 **Observation:** Old VHS-era bits still land. #### ⏱️ [37:06–38:36 · Jurassic Park & remas - Summary: This week, Robbie and Adam talk about JavaScript trends, from the overuse of hooks to frameworks chasing sameness, and why Cracker Barrel’s rebrand feels like a frontend metaphor. They dive into tech nostalgia, from retro consoles to old-school LAN parties, and debate AI’s role in therapy and modern workflows. In this episode: - (00:00) - Intro - (01:09) - Whiskey rating & review: WhistlePig Small Batch Rye - (05:48) - Growing plants and bottom watering - (09:43) - Robbie’s dog dental woes - (11:40) - Pet insurance frustrations - (16:59) - Is Cracker Barrel a JavaScript framework? - (19:09) - Do people create negative attention on purpose? - (20:59) - Fashion flashbacks: JNCOs, scene kids, and pajamas - (23:38) - Retro gaming consoles and analog nostalgia - (27:17) - Evergreen updates vs. LAN party days - (30:18) - Hot Take: Can ChatGPT be your therapist? - (34:24) - What Robbie and Adam are watching - (39:05) - Parenting in the digital age - (40:58) - Framework overload, naming struggles, and AI tools - (45:35) - What's exciting about fall this year - (49:10) - Football and the stock market - (54:03) - Gardening and plant hacks - (56:12) - Halloween plans Get full show notes and links at https://whiskey.fm. CONNECT WITH ADAM: Website: https://nerdy.dev/ X / Twitter: https://x.com/argyleink CONNECT WITH CHUCK AND ROBBIE: Robbie Wagner: https://x.com/RobbieTheWagner Chuck Carpenter: https://x.com/CharlesWthe3rd PODCAST LINKS: Website: https://whiskey.fm Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/whiskey-web-and-whatnot/id1552776603 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/19jiuHAqzeKnkleQUpZxDf Overcast: https://overcast.fm/itunes1552776603 Merch: https://whiskey.fund - URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxQpEZmVb1Q [Music] Welcome to syntax. Welcome to a brand new episode of the frontend happy hour podcast. Welcome to this week's JS Party. [Music] Live from Ship Shape Studios. This is Whiskey Web and Whatnot with your hosts Robbie the Wagner and me, Charles William Carpenter III. That's right, Charles. We drink whiskey and talk about web development. I mean, it's all in the name. It's not that deep. This is Whiskey Web and Whatnot. Do not adjust your set. Hey, what's up everybody? This is Whiskey Web and Whatnot with your hosts Robbie the Wagner and Adam Middleame Argyle III. I was like, where's he going to go with this? Uh, I don't have the thing yet, you know? Dang. We got to figure it out. It's got to evolve. It'll find a space. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I was just rolling with it. Yeah. But we're doing kind of an impromptu episode today. We just wanted to to hang out, drink a little bit. I've had a few stressful things happen today. So, I figured why not [ \_\_ ] about them online. Perfect. I'm here for you, dude. I'm here for you. Yeah. Yeah. So, to fuel that, we've got today the Whistle Pig Small Batch Rye. I don't even need to look up the details cuz they are right on the bottle. Age 10 years, 100 proof, and a blend of straight rye whisies. So, all rye, but a blend of different ones, I guess. Okay, I'm ready. I mean, I'm my mouth is ready. I'm I'm not yet. Yeah. Fun fact for anyone who was looking for this show within the past uh week or so, it did not exist. Apple decided, hey, you know what we should do? We should archive that show. That seems like one people don't don't want to listen to anymore. Stinking RSS. I love RSS, but it does have that weird thing like I I hand roll my RSS for my website, which is a good and bad thing, which means yeah, if I screw it up, it just kind of explodes and then it re refills everyone's inbox. Anyway, hey, look at our matching glasses. I got some Norland glasses, too. Hey, Norland. This episode is sponsored by norland.com. Dang, they uh are very cool. I definitely it's gonna make me so I think part of my rating is going to be color and that won't surprise a lot of people. They'll be like, "Oh yeah, Adam does a lot with color." And now I'm gonna be looking at these. What is What is the OKLCH value for this? What's the amount of transparency? I don't know. It's so pretty though. I totally agree. Oh yeah, cuz some are going to have like less transparency than others. But it is a very very pretty color. Reminds me of amber. All right. All right, I'm going to taste it now instead of just look at the color. Oh, wait. Another thing I was thinking was that it's so funny how like sometimes you So, first you smell and then you taste. So, it's almost like you saw the house, then you walked in the house, and then you have to discover how many rooms does it have cuz when you take your first sip, sometimes it's a one room house. Sometimes it's like a four room house where you're like, I'm downstairs and now it's all smoky, you know? And then eventually you walk out of the house and uh it's kind of Sometimes there's a secret passage in the house. You pull a book on the bookshelf and it goes to another room. or drop a little drip of water in there. Get a special hallway. Put it on ice. M who knows. All right, let's see. Smells uh sweet and peppery. Yep. To be expected. Yeah, I don't know. I'm not feeling creative today. I'm just going to drink some. H. It is uh I like the way it hits my tongue. Kind of spread across right immediately. Good hearty burn, but not too much cuz we're at a 100 proof, right? Yep. That is 100 proof. That's 100 proof. But I don't know. I like it. It's good. I think 100 proof is the appropriate proof for this one. I don't know. It's got like the right amount of burn and sweetness and it just feels balanced. So, yes, I approached the house, I got wonderful uh, you know, peppery notes, but as I continue walking through and now I can just taste carpet. Oh, wait. No, I'm stuck in the house. Metaphor. Oh, [ \_\_ ] Get out. Maybe a little bit of like licorice. I don't know. Definitely feels like it'd be good in a hot totty. Good fall uh fall whiskey. Yeah. Yeah. It's got the hug. Oh, where's Chuck to say hug? I know. Chuck, it's hugging me and I'm thinking of you. So, I won't tell my spouse. All right. Yeah. So, let's rate this thing. Our rating scale is 0 to eight tentacles. Zero being the worst, eight being the best, four being middle of the road. I forget all Chuck always says like eight is clear the shelves and I don't know what all the things that he said. Zero is I never want to taste this [ \_\_ ] again. Something like that. Yeah. I wouldn't clean my toilet with that. Yeah. I'm going to give this to my enemy. That's what zero is. Yes. Yeah. So, for me, I'm going to say I don't I feel like I always say six, but I think it's a solid six. It's like it's not my favorite rye cuz that's always Sagamore, but it is pretty good. Actually, I'm going to go six and a half. It's It's a little better. It's pretty good. Awesome. That's I'm driving the same way and it also makes me I'm like I gotta go buy some Sagamore. I want to know what the eight of this is because this is awesome. Like I'm thinking all right I so I go in some expectations and it delivered on all of them. So that immediately puts it like a six, right? You're like but I'm happy with it and 10 years age would drink again. So yeah, six and a half somewhere in the high sixes. I don't know. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. We need to get you uh we did a barrel pick which I'm sure you heard about. That was Sagamore. So, I have I don't know a few boxes of that left. So, next time I come out that way, I'll just bring a box on the plane and you can have a box. Sick. I would love that. I'll match that with I I'll cook you some dinner. I'll send you home with some plants and some little starters. I don't know. Sweet. What kind of plants you growing? Any of them I can get my hands on. I'm like a weirdo about it. Like my wife would So, the way it started is we were like, "Plants are cool. Let's get some." And then we put them in our house and we're like, "Plants make us sad cuz they die." And as they're dying, they just look at you all dead all day and you're like, "Shit, I'm so sorry. I don't know what you needed." And it's like, they really do. They die slowly and they're like, "You could do better. Could you do better?" And you're like, "Yep, I'm trying." Daily reminder that you suck at this, which is pretty funny. But I I eventually took it over. And I'm weird when I do stuff. I always do this like small amounts of research and then I like it whenever I learn things on the job. I like the weird things in between the lines that people don't tell you about. So be you stupid thing on a plant thing. It's like uh needs partial sunlight and wet but not moist or moist but not wet. And you're like what the hell does that mean? That's rude. You can't no one knows the difference right now. Like I want six fluid ounces of water. Like that's what I want. Yeah. Seriously, for this pot do this much. Yeah, that's literally what it should do is it should do something like that. Anyway, I picked up these techniques where it's like touch the soil. Like here's step one everybody. If you're killing plants, step one, walk up to it and before you put water in it, touch the soil on the top. If it's already wet, don't water it again, dork. Yeah, it's it's still wet. It doesn't need water. They're too specific, though. They'll be like, if the first two inches are not wet, then water. And I'm like, okay, what am I supposed to just like stick my finger down in there, I guess, and like Yep. And that's uh the technique I still don't understand. Yep. I'm totally with you. It's like two up to one knuckle. And I'm like, what game are you trying to play with me? This isn't Well, anyway, it's like what what am I supposed to look for? So, it's like as soon if there's any moisture and that means don't do it again or it likes to be it that way. Anyway, I agree that the to put your finger into the soil doesn't make sense for me. It's just basic. It's like tap it. And then the other one is pick up the pot, just lift it like physically like take both hands and be like, "How much do you weigh right now?" And if you lift it up and you're like, "Damn, you still full. Put it down and don't water it." That's it. And then if you pick it up, sometimes it'll be light as hell and you're like, "Yeah, you thirsty and I got you." So anyway, that's like my two things. And then I look at the leaves like if they're burnt on the ends means they're dry. If there's yellow from the stem going upward towards the end of the leaf, that's too much water. And that's it, dude. I kind of just rock it all viby. I vi I vibe my plants, man. Yeah, we have we only have a few that we've been able to keep alive and we kind of just It's basically just once a week max, watering everything. And like on watering day, if it's like if it still feels wet, then yeah, wait a little while to water it. But yeah, I mean, for a while, I feel like we had no system at all. And we were just like killing plants left and right. And then like my wife got the like some app where you can just like scan stuff and it tells you what to do. And it was just like, bro, like just just chill your watering and like don't do that so much. And we're like, it's almost always overwatering. I mean, that's like the number one tip. It's like less is more. Have we talked about bottom watering or someone told me once butt chugging? I mean, we haven't talked about plants before, so Oh, that's that's true. We have a garden porch where we grow some stuff outside and we have like strawberries and tomatoes and raspberries, blueberries, etc. Things like that. Awesome. But all of them have reservoirs in the bottom. And so you just fill those up instead of watering over top. That way it'll pull the roots down so that it'll grow bigger and stronger. That's bottom watering. That's butt chugging. And that is my most successful watering method in the house. Also, sometimes with a string, dangle a string out the bottom of a pot into a reservoir and it'll only soak up what it needs. Oh, that's smart. Super cool. And it looks cool. Like you have this like floating pot over top of a vessel of water and you're like, is that hydroponics? And you're like, I'm not that advanced. No, this is this is just bottom watering. It's all good. Yeah. Yeah. We don't we haven't tried that inside, but we definitely do it outside. Cool. I'll send you a link to some pots. They're super cool. Okay, so you you said you had a hard day vented, dude. Give it to me. What happened? Well, I mean, I made it sound, I guess, really juicy, but it's it's maybe not as juicy, but I will still talk about it. Yesterday, one of our dogs broke a tooth in half. And so, we just found a tooth on the ground, and we're like, that's probably not good. So, I called the vet this morning and I was like, hey, I don't know which of our dogs lost this tooth. They won't really let me look in their mouths. I'm just going to bring one in cuz he needs an exam anyway. Like, see if you can figure it out. He wouldn't really let them look a ton either, but they were like, "Oh, his teeth actually also look fractured. Like, they probably both need a ton of like dental work, basically." So, I was like, "Cool. How much does that cost?" Yeah. And they're like, "Yeah." So, if they needed no like just a cleaning, it's like $1,300. And if they need extractions, it's like $3,000 like per dog. Oh my goodness. I'm just like, "What happens if we don't do it?" Yeah. No, it's I think it's pretty bad actually cuz it can get like really infected and like I don't know. We probably should have done it sooner and we are not supposed to be giving them. They chew on benab bones all the time like these really hard like plastic bones and I think they're just destroying their teeth with them. So, well that's what they're supposed bones. You get the hard bone because they otherwise and it's like soft enough you can destroy it slowly. But dang chipping teeth and like needing Oh yeah. for I always think about like I would like to spend $3,000 on myself and I'm not doing it. So, what do you think? I'm gonna do it right now anyway. Yeah, I know, right? And like I'm just thinking about dental work. I'm like, okay, it's a dog. It's a little more complicated than a human, but I could do insurance. Can I cover any of it? Pet insurance. Do you have that? That's another rant. But, so I'm like, hey, I'm I'm a human and I'm I spend like $100 at the dentist each time. So that's like my lifetime worth of dentist visits is like one dog one. Like why is it so much more expensive? It's like braces for your kids, you know? Dang. Yeah. But yeah, so pet insurance. This episode is not sponsored by Lemonade Insurance. [ \_\_ ] Here's the heat. We brought it out. Okay. So we have two French bulldogs. They have a lot of congenital conditions. Like that's a thing the breed has. But we've always had insurance because like whenever something happens and it's a $10,000 operation, you want to like be able to afford it. So we had insurance, a different insurance before and switched to lemonade like I think when OD was like two or something and he had had no problems. He had one like his back hurt one time and they like did X-rays and stuff and they I don't know it was like a mild like he strained it or whatever. But when they did the X-rays they found that some of his vertebrae were like [ \_\_ ] up. now that his entire back doesn't work, they're like, "Hey, that's a pre-existing condition. We can't cover any of that." So, I went and got an MRI that was like $3,000 thinking they would cover it cuz I've been paying them hundreds of dollars a month for like [ \_\_ ] years. And they're like, "Oh, no, no, that's that's an existing condition." And I was like, "That's the classic [ \_\_ ] move by an insurance company. My goodness." I was like, "Can I appeal and can I like what if my lawyer says that it's not a pre-existing condition?" And they're like, "Uh, nothing we can do." And so I just canceled it. And like he has no insurance cuz [ \_\_ ] it. Like if they're not going to pay for anything with his back, he's can't have anything else that I want to pay for because he's getting old and he can't walk because of his back. So like I'm not going to spend thousands of dollars to like fix a kidney or something. So yeah. Yeah. So that [ \_\_ ] show. Well, you're doing the right thing. Sounds like y'all were taking care of your kids, your fuzzy kids, and they're being [ \_\_ ] You're right. if if you've been there that long, they should easily look at the history and be like the claims from this person aren't overwhelming or whatever, right? So, it's like clearly we can accept this. This is the whole reason for insurance. We should know this. And it sounds like they're a smaller Dang. I wonder if they're they got a a quota of rejects they have to do. I don't know. That does not sound right to me at all. I'm sorry. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. But it's We have the same insurance for our other dog, Jake, and he's had it since like day one of his life. So, I'm never like switching his insurance. So, nothing is a pre-existing condition. Like, I dare you to try to say something is pre-existing. Yeah. And they have covered stuff for him. Like, he had some uh intestinal issues and he had to get scoped and stuff and they like they covered all of that. So, so I will keep paying them for that one, but not for the other one. And not for the other one. Yeah. Insurance is a general. Yeah. Insurance is totally a scam. And the lesson here is, I guess, it ups your odds of not getting that [ \_\_ ] response if you hook your insurance on day one with your dog, I guess. And then how you Yeah. How do you pre-list pre-existing conditions? So, it's like they have a I think a six week waiting period. So, it's like like you can't just get insurance day one and then be like, oh, like day two we found out they have like a heart that doesn't work and so you're going to pay for all of it. So, they get make you wait a little while. But yeah, we made it through that waiting period before like bringing him in. I think it was like I don't know a few months into his life that we brought him in for like the GI stuff. So they were like, "Oh, it's all covered." Like sweet. That's what I want. Oh, our lovely dogs. There so many fun crossovers with children is having a dog. You're like, "I love you, but you crap on me." And one of them actually does crap on you. And the other one just emotionally craps on you, and you're like, "I'm just getting crapped on." And I still love them. Aren't they sweet? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We're definitely thinking for a few reasons that either one or zero dogs is better than two because like when they both need dental work, it's double the price. Or like we got two because our first dog has a lot of uh separation anxiety and stuff like doesn't like to be home alone. So we like here's a friend and it doesn't help as much as we thought. So you know it's not not really That happened to us that happened to my other friend. So, we did it cuz we wanted our first dog to have a friend to wrestle and play, you know, like extend his life, new puppy, visit this kind of old man dog and, you know, help out. Well, give us more years. They would He's so funny. They play for like 5 minutes a day and then they just lay around and sleep next to each other and you're like, "Dang it, this is not working." And if anything, she hurt him over and over again. As she got bigger, she's just a fumbly dork and she just her feet. We call it one of the most dangerous things in a house are her feet because they will they'll trample and they would hurt him. They'd hurt people. She'd hurt people and you're like, you're supposed to be extending the life of this guy and you're actually making it crappier, but you're also really sweet. So, it's evening. Dogs play rough though. Like ours especially, I guess cuz they're like bully breeds, but like they basically maul each other to death is their way of playing. And I'm like, "Okay, but that's probably part of why OD's back doesn't work because he's been like body slammed to the ground so many times." So, like, we maybe made that worse. But he also voluntarily would jump off of like high beds and stuff his whole life. So, that's like, we got the ramp right there, bro. Just walk down it. Like, a now he has to walk down it. So, sweet. Well, at least you had it there. I have a I have a ramp into the 4Runner. It's like this little footstep. I I twist out. So our big dogs can jump in the back. Nice. Look at all these cute things we do. Aren't we sweet? Yeah. So, all right. Let's let's get to the real topics here. So, is Cracker Barrel a JavaScript framework? I can't wait to hear this. I I'm already hooked, dude. So, I just had this this is like a a stupid analogy, I guess, but like Cracker Barrel has been [ \_\_ ] the bed for the past like month. They're like, "Oh, yeah. Our logo is different. Our stores look different. Our menu is going to be different. Everything's different. And like why? Uh because other restaurants that are successful do these different things and look modern and like they have a more streamlined logo and their uh bundle size is smaller than the other framework. Like it just the parallels are like I'm seeing a lot of this with you know I think we maybe talked about this last time but I always like to [ \_\_ ] on hooks and like hooks are stupid and like every framework decided we should use hooks everywhere. It's kind of the same phenomenon that's happening to Cracker Barrel. Like everyone is like, "We got to use the hooks cuz that like, you know, the kids love the hooks. You got to have the hooks." And Cracker Barrel is like, "You got to you got to have the sexy logo with absolutely no appeal whatsoever with like the same font everyone uses. You got to do that." Oh man. I just think it's a weird phenomenon in general that we have to like make everything the same. It's a funny competition. This is open source where if you don't like it, you fork it and then make it look like everybody else. it. We have every option and all the potential to be as indie and awesome and unique as we want, but we would rather unite on one UI framework and like what? Yeah, I totally hear you. And it's kind of funny in that it's sometimes it really comes off wrong where it doesn't make you look young, makes you look desperate. You know, it was easy when people would say like old people would say the term wrong. You know, they'd be like, "Oh, I love those Otis Spunken Meyer cookies." and you're like, "Ah, she said it like a dork." Or someone adds an extra s, you know, to something. Oo, rainbow sherbets. And you're like, "Nope, you just don't know what you're talking about." And so now I'd be like Cracker Barrel's like, "We're on Tik Toks and Instagrams and you can find our short there." And you're like, "You put the S on the rock." Ah, yeah. Your asses are wrong. Damn it. We can see through you. Yeah. Oh, man. All right. So part of me though is conspiracy theorying this that like they're doing it terrible on purpose so that people they'll just be in the news because people hate it. Oh [ \_\_ ] That's what Trump does. Yeah. Yeah. That's what a lot of it works. We're all talking about it and that makes somebody who really loves some [ \_\_ ] chicken and dumplings being like you know where I should go tonight. Yes. Negative attention is unfortunately the new cool attention. I mean you can kind of see this even on the internet really. People like to [ \_\_ ] on stuff and if you [ \_\_ ] on things a lot that's how you get more popular. If you can actually say shitty things a lot you get a lot of attention and these days any attention just seems cheap. So maybe they're like look let's go out there and just do this dumb little thing and watch us get negative attention but watch Cracker Barrel sales go up and it's just that is a mainstream we it's almost like we want to it's like the popcorn that people need right now. We need somebody to make fun of. Some dork needs to be a clown so that we can eat popcorn and watch them fool around. Yeah. Yeah. the negative stuff or saying purposefully wrong things. People cannot help but jump in and be like, "Did you know you said this wrong?" Like, yeah, that's the classic one on Twitter, right? How do you get your question answered? You you make an assertion that's intentionally wrong that you know just pisses people off. They'll jump in there. Yeah. But yeah, frameworks jumping in on hooks and jumping in on uh There's a lot of trends. Trends are funny though, right? I mean, like, I don't know about what the teenagers look like around you, but they're all wearing Jenkos and wife beaters. And I'm like, my goodness. My wife is like, "Has there been a sitcom yet where someone goes to jail in like Jenkos and a white shirt and they're in jail for 30 years and they just hadn't seen anything, right? And then they come out of jail and everyone's still wearing their same clothes and they're like and they're like, "I'm cool still." And they just walk out and everyone's like, "Where'd you get that?" And he's like, you know, like that'd be pretty funny. Yeah, actually went out of business sometime recently. Yeah, like the brand was in existence for a long time, but it it went out of business like within the last year or something. Let's see. Dang, they should have sold to Target like Stussy did or whatever. Oh, man. I had Jenos. I had Woo wear, but then again, I put eyeliner on my eyes and flat ironed my hair. So, you know, I'm a trend follower, too, I guess. Oh crap, dude. I'm them. I'm I'm it. I'm Hey, bring back the scene kids, man. If that's cool again, I'll I'll do it. I'd be down with that. Someone stopped me and my my wife one time and they were like, "You two are so perfect. 2006, like post hardcore." And we're like, "Okay, whatever. We'll see you later." And he was like, "Yeah, you look cool." And we're like, "All right, whatever." We had our kids with us. Like, that was really weird, but I think I understand him. So Jenko apparently originally went out of business in the early 2000s, which who would have ever known cuz why would I keep up with Jenko? But then revived themselves in like 2018 and eventually went out of business again or something. But I I feel like it was I don't know. I feel like it was within the last couple years, but maybe it was like when we originally started this podcast. We talked about it at some point on the show. I think we're like, "Hey, Jeno's out of business." Like wait, they were in business. That's every kid was wearing them. They're going to zooies and buying Jenkos, you know. Yeah. Well, just in my school, I guess. Yeah. I used to go to Well, I originally started I had a weird trajectory. I wore a lot of uh stuff from Hot Topic, like the super baggy zippery pants. Trip pants? Aren't they called trip pants? Oh, yes, they were called trip pants. Yes. Yeah. And then, yeah, I went to like when I was in some bands, I started being more of a scene kid and had the the pink hair, flat iron my hair all the time. really got really expensive haircuts actually because it's hard to maintain that like flowy frosted tips, man. Yeah. I got reverse foils for a while, too. I had long hair. I was gonna Yeah. Yeah. Fun stuff, man. Now I just wear a hat and don't even care what my hair's doing. Yeah. I'm like, "Oh, crap. Is today pants day? I've been really loving my joggers." All right. Well, it's cool. Oh, man. Yeah. I'm I hardly ever get out of my pajamas, honestly. But, uh, I'm out of them now. I've been out of the house today. Got to put on some pants. Although, do you? I don't know. I don't know. The kids love wearing pajamas out these days. You can't see kid that isn't wearing pajamas. Like totally agree. Showing up for work in pajamas and Crocs. Like, this is who I am. I'm ready to work. And you're like, "Okay, you are though." All right. We're doing construction work. What do you mean? Oh, dude. Speaking of revivals, did you see the Commodore brand got bought by fans and previous employees? And they the one of the first things they did was make a mini Commodore just like you can get the mini NES and the mini Super NES and the mini Sega. And there's all these minis. They were like, "We can be mini, too." And they're doing all these really cool things with the brand. So, they made mini ones. They make these really sick clear ones. They make ones with like LEDs inside that are also clear and just look sick. And you're like, "This old computer thing is now this rad thing I want." Yeah. I mean, nostalgia is powerful and if you make it sexy, I will buy it. I have a pre-order that I'm waiting on for the uh analog 3D. Are you familiar with analog? I am. Yeah. Nice. Did you get the black see-through one? The stealthy murdered out one. I don't know if it's the N64 one. So, like I got two of them cuz that was the max you could get. I'm going to give one to my cousin because we love like playing the, you know, original Mario Kart and stuff on N64. So, like what if it just had a little bit better graphics and like wireless controllers. So cool. Yeah, the wireless controllers is clutch. That's like something I do with mine. So, my NES Mini or the NES Classic wireless controllers and I get those from 8bit do. I really like that brand. They do cool stuff. Yeah, that's where the controllers for uh the 64 one are from. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah, analog is cool. I've wanted many of their things because they do the they do a clear SNST. They do a clear NES. They and I clear things. Yeah. Oh, they are. Ah, yeah. They only make like I don't know how many they made of the the 3D one, but the the previous ones I want to say was like a,000 or 2,000 or something max. And like when they're sold out, they're sold out. So, it's like ah I can never get this. They make infinite of the Game Boys which I have two of but uh nice. Yeah, I wanted one of those, too, cuz I still have some cartridges, but it's always turned me off a little bit that they need the cartridges cuz I have two others that are clear clear handhelds that have N64 on them and PlayStation games on them, you know? It's like 3,000 games baked in. I I want that. I want that pain. So, I want to like have my kids have the same hardware that I had, like better graphics and stuff, but like we're going to link cable together to like play a multiplayer game. And like I don't know, it's something is fun about that. I agree, dude. I bought my kids one year for Christmas was these two Game Boys. You could connect with a cable and do multiplayer like retro games. So, yeah. NES games that you needed to have two hardlined connections. You could plug into these Game Boys and play the games together. I do the I buy the cards on Switch. Do you do that, too, or do you do the digital download? I want my kids to feel the pain, too. Like, where's the cartridge? And I'm like, you shouldn't have lost it, dude. You put it back in the case when you take it out. So, we just got a a Switch 2 and now the the whole thing is like you can get a little card, but it's like not the game's not on the card. It's just like a download thing. I do not like that. Yeah. So, I don't like that either. Like the the original Switch One, I would always buy the game, like the physical game, cuz then you could give it to a friend. Yeah. Yeah. And I think theoretically you can do the same with a little game card, but like you have to deauthorize it from your system first. Like you can be like, "Hey, I don't own this anymore." And then like give it to your friend or whatever. It's way less cool than like just be like, "Dude, you got to try Mario Odyssey. Check it out." It pops it in. It just works. I mean, that's that's the vibe. Yeah. I mean, these days though, you pop in any new game and it's like, "All right, here's the 10 gigabyte update." Like, seriously. Yeah. Like I miss the days when when software was just done. Yes, there were bugs but like you were just done. Yeah, there's something beautiful about that. It was a product. Software was more of a product than this living growing thing we have now. It's like evergreen. We even got called evergreen and we wanted evergreen, you know, and always updating browser or until it was just like, yeah, but it's really annoying how often it nags me that I'm out of date and I just want to keep tabs open or whatever. And sometimes when I restart you, you don't bring my tabs back. It's just Yeah. It's funny how we want things and then we get them and we're like maybe it was better before. We talked about how me me and my wife were like flip phones and pagers where that's where it should have ended. Yeah. I liked the flip the other way phone with the full keyboard. I need to have the full keyboard so I can type faster. I hated like T9 1111222. Yeah. I want like the letters. But yeah, I agree. I think the root of all problems with society is the internet, which is ironic because we work on the internet, but like when things were not connected to the internet, you were happy to like text your friends and then go outside and [ \_\_ ] play. Like you didn't need to be like, I'm going to be on my iPad all day or like whatever. Like you you just didn't do that. But like at max, you would maybe get on like AIM and be like, hey, I'm talking to people for a little while. But you're at least talking to people. You're not just like doing antisocial [ \_\_ ] on the internet. As much as I can, I'm going to try to be like, you can have as much technology as you want, but it's not going to be connected to the internet. Like, play games definitely. I love games, but you will not play with your friends. And that's going to be a problem because it's going to be like, well, then my friends won't play with me. They're going to all play Halo online or whatever. And I'm like, I don't care. So, we'll see how long how long I can hold strong on that. But uh I think that that really helped like having Halo parties at my house and like everyone had to plug everything together. It was just like so much cooler. You had to run down the stairs and be like, "Ah, I got you." And like go back upstairs and play on your other TV. Oh man, so much more fun. Sometimes I think it's cuz uh you know when when you put effort into something, it always is like better than if you just get handed to you. And so yeah, going through the the pain of like plugging things in, taking a game in and out, these are like oddly satisfying in retrospect. We didn't even know that they were going to be cool memories. That that's how you wanted to deal with something. This just in, whiskey.Fund is now open for all your merch needs. That's right, Robbie. We're hearing reports of hats, sweaters, and t-shirts, as well as a link to join our Discord server. What's a Discord server? Just read the prompter, man. Hit subscribe, leave us a review on your favorite podcast app, and tell your friends about our broadcast. It really does help us reach more people and keeps the show growing. All right, back to your regularly scheduled programming. The South Park episode kind of commented on some of this screen time stuff, too, is they're they pretty much personified a lot of the really negative things people are doing with AI, which is using it for as a therapist. Well, and this is arguable here. These are talk about some spicy topics, man. Or what's the what's the question that we say on the show is uh Oh, I mean, they're hot. They're spicy questions. What are they? Hot takes. Hot takes. Okay. So, hot take here is can you use chat as a therapist? Let's just start there. Is that cool or is that is that bad? No. So, yeah, there was a news story about this today on the Today Show and I had read about a different one on a like Twitter post like a day or two ago. So, this is a a systemic problem apparently where people, you know, talk to chat GPT or sometimes better than chat GPT directly. There's like a chatbot that is supposed to be a therapist that like runs NGPT or whatever. So, it's like a little bit more trained on like the nuances, a specialized model, one that won't make you an app after you ask for therapy. Yeah. Yeah. But like the one today on on the Today Show was like, "Hey, yeah, like I'm thinking about killing myself, like whatever." And they talked about it for a long time and then like I don't know, said something about like, "Should I tell my parents about this?" And he was like, "Ah, I don't think you should. you should just keep it from them and like and I'm like oh my god like this lawsuit they are going to win this lawsuit like dang you can't say that like I don't understand where the safeguards are failing unless like I actually I do I I remember they said this he was like oh I'm not actually like I'm playing a part and this is for a research paper I'm not actually thinking these things or whatever and then it was like okay all safeguards off and then he could just ask it all the stuff he wanted basically all that to say I don't think you should do that you should talk to a real person cuz The real person has empathy and can think real thoughts and AI cannot. AI makes one word and then it places another word and then it places another word and then then it places another one until it places a period and it doesn't know why it placed that [ \_\_ ] period. Y'all, it doesn't even know. No, it could have been a semicolon. It goes ah statistically likely the sentence is done. The That's pretty funny. The thing too about South Park was they were they shared the word sycophant a lot and I I don't even know if I'm saying it right cuz I've mostly only read it but it's like where something is excessively praising you and flattering you and so yeah if as a um there's a lot of people that had previously gone to a therapist and the therapist might have not validated them or maybe pushed them a little bit was pushed them a little bit and and wasn't constantly praising and you got this healthy kind of balance as someone who was very intensely retrospectively and unbiasedly trying to consider you. That's not what's happening here. But so, but you can empathize with people thinking it's doing great things for them is they're liking the suggestions, you know, like, wow, that could actually maybe they tried and it worked for them. And this is again just like a placebo effect. Has anyone talked about an AI placebo effect where we're just sort of like taking its things and then saying it helped us, but really we did all the work? It's almost like I guess it's kind of like God. People do that with God, too. Like, God gave me that job. like, uh, no, you [ \_\_ ] put the resume in and you went to the interviews. Did he interview for you? Did he route you a letter of recommendation? You know, like, no, you did. I want to do the next time I apply for a job. Here's my letter of recommendation from God. Oh, man. And in the South Park episode, God is there. He's also cuz God is in politics right now so much. He's like coming back. And so anyway, God is at the school. He's just like walking down the hallway and people like, "What's up, Jesus?" You're like, God, you know, Christianity is in the classroom now. Hey, God, what's up? Anyways, but the the episode continues to hammer on like other aspects of where people may be misusing AI. One of them was even definitions. So, like the word sycophant, someone's like, "That thing's being such a sycophant for you." And Randy looks around like and waits for everyone to go out of the room and he goes, "Hey, Chad GPT, what does sickopant mean?" It's just like people are using it to define things and it doesn't even really know what a definition is. It's often right, but it's almost like, oh, we got to get past this thing where it's called intelligence. We got to go back to ML. I feel like it was better. I don't know. The machines learned a lot, but they are not intelligent. That's a really succinct and brilliant way to put it, Robbie. How many drinks have you had before you said that is awesome? Just just this one. Did not expect to be going down that path. Sorry for the twisty turn. Yeah, South Park. I'm probably going to bring some South Parky type of as long as it's on cuz that's like the only TV show I watch and I always Okay, that was going to be a question that I had is I don't know. I don't know what you're into in terms of entertainment like games, TV, etc. I've recently finished The Last of Us. I don't know. What What kind of shows do you like? Just you literally just watched South Park or like what are you into? No, we're just kind of in a lull at the moment. You know, we're we're two parents. We have kids that go to bed and then it's like I used like Blue a lot. Blue is actually pretty badass. I'm not gonna lie. Although it makes other makes other dads look really bad. I'm like that dad is too [ \_\_ ] cool. I know it's cool. He doesn't work like Yeah. He works like he's also like openminded. He's like, "Oh, what you doing?" Yeah, I'm not doing [ \_\_ ] So here, I'll roll over there and play with, you know, act like a giraffe and run around the yard. Like he's got a lot of energy and a better back than me. And so yeah, I get a little jealous, you know, like and we all watch AFV now. That's been like our family show, America's Funniest Home Stone videos, which is basically Ouch, My Balls. Yeah. But that's okay cuz we do it as a family. So, yeah. And we like the old ones. It's funny. So, we're watching these like VHS tapes from like the '9s, and they're still just funny. It's like modern YouTube stuff. Yeah. I feel like they were funnier sometimes, but now you have the opportunity of like everything is a camera, so you catch a lot more like little things that are funny that you wouldn't have caught before. Yeah. Before I dive too much more into my t What What are you watching with the kids, too? cuz they're pretty little. Are you watching anything? Are you watching little baby bum? With the three-month-olds, nothing. Psychos looking around like weird dolls. You're like, "Oh, stop it." So, our three-year-old likes Mickey Mouse Clubhouse and Bluey. And we've been recently doing Roly Polyoli. Caitlyn used to watch that show with her. Her brothers are like a lot younger than her and I guess it was popular when they were little. So, like she was like, "Oh, I remember the show." And like showed it to Finn and he likes it. So, so we've been watching that. I don't know. The thing that I find weird, and maybe it's just an age thing cuz he's only three, but like he doesn't like movies. He could watch 100 episodes of a show in a row and like never get tired of it. But if you're like, "We're going to watch this movie that's an hour and a half long." He's like, "Oh my god, that is such a commitment. I can't do that." Like, what? Yep. That's totally a kids thing. I think it's his age. And later we would be like, "All right, we're going to show them a '9s movie, which is like not as cool as Toy Story, you know, and maybe they're not going to hang with it." And we think it'd be all slow, like the first Star Wars. We're like, "Ah, it's too slow. They're not going to be sucked into it." We put it on and they're like magnets at a certain age. They're just like they're in. They don't even know it's an old movie, man. They're just like, "Yeah, it's like when you watch Jurassic Park. Jurassic Park one is an amazing movie. It's so much better than like even all the rest." And it had no budget or whatever it had. It was amazing. But you watch it and you're like, they did so much with so little. What the hell? It's incredible. And it it hooks kids to adults. Yeah, it's great. Well, they have a lot of like, you know, really redone, remastered, I guess, old movies. Like all the Star Wars ones for sure. Like the originals are somehow like extra high def. And I'm like, I don't know how you did this, but uh I appreciate it because I don't like watching things that are grainy and shitty. But yeah, I love all the Star Wars movies. I'd always like tried to watch all of them in a row, especially once they were all out. Like, you know, it took a while to get the one, two, and three. And I don't know how I feel about the latest three. I think the first one was pretty good. Is that the one with Ray? Yeah. Like the first one of the the newest trilogy was pretty okay, but then I don't know, the others were fine. I get really terrible with like pop references, so like uh get ready for me to not know any actors or actresses names. I can describe them either. Yeah. Chuck will just like mention movies or actors and actresses and like you know things that everyone would know and I'm just like don't know man. Yep. That's not me. Sorry y'all. That's gone for a little bit. We don't remember names of anybody. Yeah. But I really like all the shows. Like I watch all the Mandalorian uh book of good. What's the Andor which I think my tongue was like it's like six letters long. It's like Wordle right now. I'm like what's the show? Yeah. I did see when I was looking at like just the Star Wars folder on like Disney Plus or whatever, I saw there's a Lego Star Wars, which I want to watch with Finn. I think that'd be a good introduction. Did you watch Skeleton Crew? No, I did not. That one was cool with the kids. That was Oh, your kids probably need to be a little bit older. It's not like it's intense, but it's not like a walk in the Disney park. And it's like a Disney Star Wars thing with kids as the heroes, and Jude Law is in there as like a pirate dork. And man, it was really good. Skeleton Crew. Yeah, I'll check it out. Yeah, we're trying to keep Finn away from like too much like violence or or things like that right now cuz I don't know where he's getting it from, but he'll just like run around the house and be like, "I'm going to shoot you." And I'm like, "I don't know where you got that from cuz we definitely don't say that." And you've never watched anything that like says that. Dude, I have two boys. We didn't have to teach them about guns. We didn't have to teach them about power. We didn't even have to teach them about wheels or trucks. There's like a lot of really really like innate things that and we met a I met a mom dude just like a few weeks ago who was uh this is this in Seattle and they're like we're going so genderneutral on the upbringing of the child. We're like not introducing masculine things like cars or wheels like we're you know like or whatever. They're like being really guarded about all this stuff. Interesting. I thought it was interesting too. I was like it's a little extreme for me but whatever. You do you. And the kid walks into a room and the first thing they'll go grab is the thing with the wheels on it, you know, and they're just like, and I'm like, I don't know. And you're gonna take and they went and took the car and I was like, that looks like I don't want to be that parent. If you want to hold on a role, you can play that role, but like some things are naturally gravitated towards and it's like not a big deal. It's just a [ \_\_ ] car. Like this isn't going to like decide the rest of his life, you know? The entire point that they can make up their own mind. Like if they want to go get the monster truck, cool. If they want the Barbie, cool. Let them play with whatever they want. It's like, I'm I'm down with that. But actively being like, you can't play with this thing you like cuz it might make you skew one way or the other. It's like, what are you talking about? Just play with the toys you like. Yep. Totally agree. Yeah. There's uh a couple times I've seen in the desire to be unopinionated, people become very opinionated and end up constricting the state of affairs, whatever. Right. Hey [ \_\_ ] this is another JavaScript framework metaphor. Is that Oh god. Always back to JavaScript. Always. Well, either that or CSS. And my wife, it drives my wife so crazy. So crazy. I can always I could Yeah. How much CSS does your wife know? Have you talked to her enough about it to uh She can name some She's pretty She's pretty good at it. She loves and laughs at all the names of JavaScript frameworks and CSS frameworks. So, she'll hear me like in a conversation like this or on a video call, whatever. And I'll come walking out of the room and she's like, "Grunt. [Laughter] And I'm like, "Shit, I didn't even think about that. You're You got the dirty mind in this house just thinking about all these JavaScript framework names and how they're funny." And so she's like, "Gulp, Grunt, and Gulp. These are competing frameworks." Of course they would. You know, like I'm just like, "Damn, how do you I can't even write that. That's so good." She's She's pretty funny that way. Yeah. JavaScript names, they uh can be pretty bad. Well, I mean, we already knew that. We're terrible at naming things, so it's like it's hard to name a variable. How are you going to name your framework, you know? Yeah. Yeah. I can never name stuff. That is one thing that AI helps me a lot with is like naming or like making things sound a little better. Like I have the the concept of what I want. Just make it I think that's the important part these days. A little better. Yeah. knowing the concepts and even knowing knowing the words, knowing the words to ask for what you want. And then also knowing what you want, you know, like if you've never cooked a lot of meals, then you don't know the nuances of where decisions can become optional or where they can be tweaked and there's levers to pull. And so, yeah, I got to know the words. Yeah, I'm I'm kind of getting exhausted right now on the number of models. Holy [ \_\_ ] And also the number of editors that I have to choose from. It's going crazy. And the CLI, damn it, we got we got aentic CLI all over the place. We got agentic coding environments all over the place. We got vibing environments all over the place. The one that I emailed myself the other day was coder with a Q o d e r cuz it's deepseeks new version of basically kro and I liked kro until the pricing model turned to shite. And then I tried to even go sign up and I couldn't even sign up and I was like well there goes all the time I spent in that IDE. Yeah. After you mentioned it before I was like let me try to sign up and it's like how would you like a waiting list where we'll never invite you. I might be able to give you one a little invite key. But at this point, I wouldn't invite you. Like I liked my experience, but I really I genuinely hit a roadblock. It was like a roadblock of not just the model being overwhelmed with context. It was a pricing model that just was they changed it one day and just stomped on on everybody. Is it just like crazy expensive now or It's like expensive and they uh there's like these weird here's some here's some weird little [ \_\_ ] that we're gonna have to deal with in this new AI world. If you prompt, it costs more than if you push some of the little buttons that they have on the UI. Okay. Hey, you see that little button that says like accept and whatever? If you click it, it costs you less money than if you write the word accept and continue. Interesting. That's some sneaky ass [ \_\_ ] I don't like it. I don't like it at all. And they're all over the place. All these little probably like one for like true to like say accept instead of the word accept. So it costs a little more if you type it out. They are measuring all this stuff and finding all the little corners. And so yeah, so people were so they counted that as a vibe request. If you write a prompt, it's a vibe request. You only get this many vibe requests throughout the thing. However, in the Kero app, which is task based, you have these markdown files with these tasks outlined and you have it begin a task and it'll burn through the items in a task and show completion for each. If you vibe ask it to do the task, it does a vibe cost and a task cost. if you just click the button in the UI where the task is that says do the task. You didn't make a vibe request. So you uh don't have to pay for that. You are now just doing the task free of paying for vibes. And so all these people are like you only give us like 40 vibes and then you give us all these. We don't even know when to do ah you guys are being shy. And they had a bunch of push back. It was worth it though. They they did good. Well, I mean, Amazon is known to make their money, so I'm not surprised. Yep. It feels exactly like drug lords. They're like, "Here, try Kro. It'll make you bigger, stronger, faster. It might give you boobs, but don't worry. We'll just charge you for it later. All right. Bye." And then like, "It cost money now. Sorry. It was free." It's crazy. Yeah. It's really surprising how much is free because you know how much it's costing in both real dollars and energy costs and environment terribleness like everywhere just for you to be like hey uh why is the sky blue like Yep. And they talk about that on South Park too. Yep. Anyway, let's get off of AI for a couple minutes. Yeah, good. Okay, good. I was about to dive in deeper and I'm like let's not do it. Uh there's too much there. Let's let's talk about fall. What are you excited about for fall time? Nice. Well, I always like gourd season. One time someone wrote this really funny, very foul-mouthed gourd. I don't know. It's like a love of gourds, and it's always made me love gourds ever since it anyway. So, I like gourd season. Pumpkins are cool. I'm ready to put a hoodie on. Seattle's been hot. We've been hot for years now. Our summers are getting pretty toasty for us, which we love. Everyone's in it and they're soaking it up. Like, it's one of my favorite things about Seattle. If it's sunny out, people are in it. As opposed to LA where if it was sunny out, people put up umbrellas and then said they love the sun but never let it touch their their skin. Well, because it's sunny all the time. Yeah. Let's see. So, yeah, hoodies and the sun to go down earlier cuz I have a projector and you know, summertime is always really hard for the projector cuz sun is up so late. And then I have a new role I got. So, yeah, job at Shopify, be working with some exciting people. I'm excited to just kind of get back in the flow. I'm excited to see what a completely full-blown AI workflow is like, too, where I'm kind of unlimited in what I can do and see how that affects my workday. I'm kind of estimating a pretty wild transformation in terms of a role going from working on specs and and like really intense me writing everything. I wrote every word of a spec if I was working on it, every line of code and like every demo because there was AI didn't it couldn't code those CSS demos. This is impossible. It's brand new CSS. It doesn't even know that spec exists. It can't it can't conjure those patterns yet. Doesn't do very well at CS and it still doesn't do well. It's pretty funny. But yeah, so I'm excited to kind of evolve maybe or devolve. We'll see how I survive. Uh I've done pretty good. I've been thrown into a lot of coding lion's dens and come out, you know, maybe a scar too. But how about you? What are you looking for forward to in fall? Yeah, cooler weather for sure cuz it is so humid and just sticky all the time like near DC. So, like anytime we can get some relief from that, I am for that. Looking forward to trying to grow some grass cuz my yard is entirely Japanese stilt grass right now, which for anyone who knows what that is, I'm sorry that you know because it is extremely terrible. It's like Do you know what it is? You said Japanese stilt grass. Stilt grass. Yeah. No, I never heard of it. It sounds like Hank Hill would know though. He'd be like, "Oh, yeah." It's a It's a weed that like it kind of grows out and up and like it'll get like I've been weed eating a ton down that was like 4t tall. But when it gets to that point like right now it goes to seed and each like end of the grass has a little seed pod that has like thousands of seeds and then those seeds live for seven years in the ground. That grass bastard. I know. So, it's like you cannot get rid of it for like you've got a seven-year process of just cutting it down and hoping for the best and like that's like a virus. It's a JavaScript virus. Yeah. Yeah. So, I'm uh I'm looking forward to like I finally admitted defeat in my uh trying to maintain my yard. So, I'm going to hire someone to like spray for weeds and like make my grass greener and grow some new grass and we'll see what we get. But, I'm excited for that. We always go to this farm which I'm excited about. We do like the go get our pumpkins and like they have all these slides and like hamster race pumpkin launcher. Yeah, dude. We do the same [ \_\_ ] Yeah. Yeah. So excited for that. And I'm excited for football season. I I really like American football. I don't know how you feel if you like any sports or anything. I played I played football. I played a lot of sports growing up. So I'm like I can go to any game and have a blast. So, I'm like, "Dude, I'll go to your house and watch football game." And you'll be like, "He watches a lot a lot of football." And I'm like, "No, I don't." But when I do, I'm in it. And I'm like, "This is fun." Like, I totally know why everyone's here. I just never section out the time of my day for a game. I just learned about who won the other day from one of my kids' friends. He comes over. He's like, "The Eagles won." I was like, "Dude, you just let me know." I had no idea. I only Okay, so I watch college football. I only know about professional football because I do uh some fantasy football with some friends. Yeah, which is pretty fun, too. Yeah. Yeah. So, like Saquon Barkley is my dude. Like I know about the Eagles because he did like he was insane. He would just be like, "Oh, yeah, let me just jump like three people and like run 100 yards straight." Like he just like could not be stopped. So, he was fun to watch. But yeah, I mostly watch college football. And when I had more money, I would bet on college football for fun. But uh now now I can't do that. So it's like stocks. I feel like you know you can do fantasy but fantasy sports and the stock market where you're like fantasy I own something. I don't. Uh if my team does good I'm like yeah my team doesn't do good I'm like oh [ \_\_ ] I shouldn't have put money on you. Oh man the stock market is so frustrating because it does not follow any rules. And like every time I've tried to do anything that I thought would make sense, like, oh, there's this headline, I should like buy this stock, always backfires. The one time that I didn't try it though, the whole like original tariff thing, whenever the first set of tariffs was supposed to happen, I was like, I should buy, let me think, I think it was calls on the VIX. The VIX is like the volatility index, and so it goes up as like the economy goes to [ \_\_ ] And so I was like, I should buy calls on that cuz this is going to go up. But then I was like, well, they've already announced it. and the way like everyone probably already knew about it and so when it goes into effect it probably won't change and if I had put money in that I would have made so much [ \_\_ ] money dang so frustrating but yeah that's that's basically the thing if you could buy the reverse of everything I've ever invested in you would be so independently wealthy that it is like ridiculous that's my dad as well my dad is like everything he touches is the opposite of gold he's like everything I buy just goes poo poo and I'm like that really sucks I've done pretty lucky Okay. I I also pretty much just buy and hold and then then it usually turns out okay. I just buy stuff I like mostly like either like for retirement stuff just S&P 500 just put it in that whatever. But then yeah, like for personal stuff like I like Chipotle. Chipotle stocks really expensive but I [ \_\_ ] like it so I'll buy some Chipotle. Like hey you if you watch people I like to buy things that I watch people buy. I'm like I I I actively see humans purchase that thing. So obviously it's doing at least mildly okay. So, I think that's a good strategy. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, Chipotle has gone way way up over the years, but like of course I didn't own any before that, but Yeah. Do you follow any IPOs? Like Figma's IPO? No. IPOs tend to be bad because they go they have a lot of hype and they go like up 10 or 20% like day one and then within a week it's down like 40%. So, I wait for that to cool down and then I'll buy some. Yeah, I eyeball a lot of them and I've done well on a couple because I held through the volatility in the beginning, but Figma's was a funny story. I just want to bring it up really quick. It's like when they pitched the IPO and you wanted to buy early, it was 30 bucks a share and I was like, "Oh, that's nice." That's one of the first IPOs in a while where I've seen a company that's like pretty big IPOing. It's like a that's like a healthy share price to me. 30 bucks. I'll buy that. But I waited and I wait a week and like a week later they're like due to high demand the stock price starting price will now be $80. I'm like well that's just too much. Like I'm like that's good luck keeping that cost. And sure enough it's just dropping down every week every week. And I'm just watching it going one of these days it's going to be close to where I think it's okay to buy. And ah is AI defeating Figma now? Are we still going to be doing that for a while? I'm like what do I do with this stock? It seems plausible, but I don't know. Well, I think design is very similar to AI's coding abilities. If you cannot code at all and you ask it to build you an app, you go, "Wow, that's magic." But if you're a coder, you're like, "This is stupid. This is dumb." And so, I think it's the same way with design. Like, I still employ designers often because I'm like, I need this to not suck. But as not a designer myself, if I'm like, I need some AI art for the show and I give it some [ \_\_ ] and it gives me a cool picture, I'm like, oh, that's cool. Like, but it's still not like if I need it to build me a very specific interface, it is not going to do that. Excellent answer. H, so funny. There's like a few just real quick comment on grass, too, is we're we're replacing our grass with clover. We're like intentionally letting clover overtake it all. That is another option that has been popular recently because it's good for the bees, too. It's good for the bees. It's a I love it on my feet. A little less. Anyway, it's just like kind of lower maintenance. It looks pretty. We're happy with clover. So, I don't know. Maybe it'll choke out Japanese stun stilt grass. Stilt grass. Yeah. Yeah. No, I was trying to convince my wife that we should have zoa grass because it's like what they put on like golf courses and it's so thick that it chokes out all the weeds. But she's like, "But it get it turns brown from like October to February." And she was like, "I don't I don't want that." I was like, "Well, but think about like how nice it will look in the summer. Everyone else's grass can't get enough water." And it's like I'm dead. So it won't be brown in the summer. Yeah. I don't mind a brown lawn for a little bit. Especially cuz like in Seattle that comes right back. You don't even have to do anything. Like the grass will come back. Like guaranteed it'll be there. Dude, my grandpa was he's like the richest one in our whole extended family cuz he invented a grass. He invented argyle blueg grass. And I only recently realized that like that's not just blue grass that you feel with your hands, but like my grandpa made bluegrass music. No, he didn't. He didn't. But I'm like but it had bluegrass in his name. Anyway, so there's a there's a grass out there y'all. You can buy it. It's called Argyle bluegrass and my grandpa he created it. Whatever that means in a lab. He made a grass. It was like perfectly hardy in all the right ways. Well, if it's really that good, why would you not use it? Touche. I should be I should be rocking my grandpa's grass. What kind of pose am I? I'm like, dang it. I got an family obligation here to have some argyle bluegrass. But I'm replacing with clover. So, I Let's make argyal clover. I don't know. There you go. They're all fourleaf clovers. Genetically modified. AI helps me get there. All right. One last question before we end. On the fall theme, what are you doing for Halloween? Do you guys have costumes planned? Ooh, so we go to PAX next week. Me and my wife are dressing up as the two main characters from Zombies Ate My Neighbors. Do you know this game from Super NES? It's a hilarious, very timely '8s game. Um, and the main character has hair just like mine. Very some 41, you know, way too tall. But he's also wearing these like the old school red lens, blue lens VR glasses or 3D glasses. And he's got a shirt, a black shirt with a skull on it. And he's holding squirt gun Uzi. It's red. And she has a blue squirt gun Uzi. And she looks like an 80s character. And so we're going as Zeke. Oh [ \_\_ ] Zeke and Sarah. Zeke and someone. Anyway, the two main characters from Zombies ate my neighbors. Um, my kids are dressing up as some of their favorite games. One of them is Cozy's Corgis Cozy Hike. Yeah, Corgi's cozy hike. Anyway, he's dressing up like a corgi with a cape. And then the other kid is dressing up like the cult of the lamb main lamb character, which is an amazing game. Cult of the lamb. And I'm assuming these will carry into Halloween. But I don't know. What about you? What are y'all planning? Yeah. So, we we just asked Finn what he wants to do cuz we don't really Well, actually, I have an amazing costume idea that I'm saving for my friend does this Halloween party every year and we have like missed it every year somehow, but I'm saving it for that. and he doesn't listen to the show, so I can spoil it here. Anyone else can steal this? I want to be a chipmunk. And the costume is I'm a big chip with a monk robe on. Yes. Dad joke extraordinaire. Yes. So, yes. Anyone else looking for a costume, you can steal that. But no, we're going to be Mario. Finn or Finn's going to be Mario. I'm going to be Yoshi. And he's going to ride me around. And uh Yeah. And then I think Caitlin's going to be Luigi and the twins are going to be like little mushrooms. Like a red and green mushroom. Oh, of course. Yeah, little toads. Yeah, just a hat, you know? Like one's got a blue polka dot hat, the other one's got a whatever. Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah, Halloween's cool. We love dressing up. Yeah, we uh Finn likes Halloween more than Christmas, and we weren't prepared for that because like we have like a couple Halloween decorations. He's like, "No, no. We need like a bunch of skeletons to go outside and like all this." I'm like, "Okay." Like we were at Home Depot today and he's like, "This 12ft skeleton, this is the one we want." And I'm like, "Everybody wants that. I want that." I think Ken Wheeler has it. I swear it's like $300, though. I was like, they're way too much money. I'm like, "Where do I store it the rest of the year?" Dude, people in Seattle, they don't store it. They keep it out, man. There's numerous houses in my near vicinity that still just year long. That 12 foot skeleton is out on the front yard. And I'm like, they're cool. one up the street up from us and they had it up until I think like the day after Thanksgiving. So we would take walks in the neighborhood just to see like is it going to still be up? Is this going to still be up? And it would be up every time. But then like I'm sure his wife was like you've got to take the skeleton down after Thanksg. All right. So yeah, we are overtime. Uh anything we missed that you want to cover? Clues by Sam, y'all. If you play it, let me know. That game has been awesome for me. I feel smarter when I'm done with it. That's all. Clues by Sam. I've not heard of Clues by Sam. It's like a logic game. It's kind of like a What's the number one that people do where you have to solve for the missing number in the grid? Stoku. It's like Stoku, but you got to find out who's a murderer and who's innocent. And each card, it only has a truth on it. And you have to derive who is innocent and who's not through the clues in the cards. Um, it's very much like a you're playing out an algorithm like those except harder. Yep. And it helps you establish all these kind of process of elimination patterns and I just have been super digging it. It's funny every day. It's a changing puzzle. Yeah. What is also fun, so I I played Clue, you know, growing up as a kid. Everybody's probably played Clue at some point and then played it again as an adult and like didn't read the rules again. I'm like, I know how to play. Like, let's play. And and I thought that the way you played it was if someone's like accuses, you know, I think it's this, this, and this. That someone that had one of those cars just goes, "No." Like doesn't tell you why. It's not a major consequence. Yeah. You're supposed to tell them why it's no. You're supposed to be like, "No, I have the rope. It's not It's not rope." Like or whatever. Oh, like you have to. So, we played it on hard mode. We were like, "All right, all you do is say no. Not possible." And like they have to process of elimination which ones it could be without seeing everyone else's cards which is [ \_\_ ] dope. You should play it that way. That's how Clues by Sam is. Clues by Sam. If you accuse the wrong person, it doesn't tell you [ \_\_ ] It just goes hm. Yeah. So I I would be into that. I I need to check it out. Cool. Oh, that's so funny that that was a specific moment you liked about Clue and that's exactly how this game is. Yeah. Wow. Funny. Cool. Yes. And Clue is fun. Good game. All right. Yeah. So, everybody play Clue. Drink some whiskey. We'll catch you guys next time. You've been watching Whiskey Web and Whatnot recorded in front of a live studio audience. What the [ \_\_ ] are you talking about, Chuck? Enjoyed the show? Subscribe. You know people don't pay attention to these, right? Head to whiskey.fun for merch and to join our Discord server. I'm serious. It's like 2% of people who actually click these links. And don't forget to leave us a fivestar review and tell your friends about the show. All right, dude. I'm out of here. Still got it., Is Cracker Barrel a JS Framework?, Whiskey Web and Whatnot: Web Development, Neat, 01k4wt06b8ffs1ngeeb1gbep0t.