It's the AI Gold Rush ![rw-book-cover](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/W6MsWyBMKgk/maxresdefault.jpg) 🔗 **Source:** [It's the AI Gold Rush](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6MsWyBMKgk) Who knows if it's recording? It says it's recording. Uh, welcome back Mark Samansky to the show. To the show. The show. Matt Maduros. This is This is cool. We're in a pretty cool place right now. I mean, the viewers can't tell, but but we can. >> I've been working on this vibecoded I got to stop saying that phrase. Maybe we'll unpack that in a moment here, but I guess I'm working on this vibecoded uh podcast recording tool that I'm going to specifically tailor to the stuff that we do at the WP Minute. and you and I are doing a test flight today. We're working out the bugs uh as we speak. There's some things I already don't like about it that I can see happening, >> but it's working so far. >> It's impressive. You know, it's all of the tokens. Uh he's used all the tokens on this bad boy. I bet Fable Fable 5 Fable 5.1. >> No Fable. >> No Fable. This is You got to be [ \_\_ ] me. >> This is uh Straight to the Soul. >> Straight to the soul. >> Uh-huh. >> Wow. Um, I'm more of a Claude guy myself, but okay. >> I I was and it's and and maybe we can talk about that, too. Um, but it's funny to watch uh the the way that these tools have, I guess, evolved over time and like just like a flock of birds just going from one side to the next as I see so many people on my ex timeline going, "Okay, I'm all in on Claude and I don't like what they're doing over there. Look what look what these agents are doing here with cursor. Now everyone's all on cursor and now people are doing AMP orbs. AMP orbs is the next thing and it's uh it's quite the roller coaster ride. Um I've witnessed over the last couple of couple of months with these toolings. >> Yeah, I'm going to be honest. I don't pay attention to most of that [ \_\_ ] Like I just I'm heads down opus whatever the newest Opus is all the time. people people uh said Opus 5 when it dropped like was like really bad and I didn't really notice anything. Um but we're getting to the point now where I don't know where you want to take it but like the my thought on that is we're getting to the point now where this is becoming a little bit more mature. It's obviously still we're still in a huge transitionary period, but if you've been using it for a while, I feel like we're getting to the point where like your the way in which you use AI actually starts to matter a little bit because there are I'm not saying you should you need to model jump, but I feel like the system that I operate in day-to-day know like I have created such a good system around it that the the model is really a commodity. Now, I'm not saying maybe Fable could help, you know, in certain things um and be better in certain ways, but I I' I've just been rocking Opus 5. Like, I haven't touched soul really that much. haven't touched Fable. I've touched it one time, lost all my tokens in 15 minutes. So, you know, it's just like I it's working for me, I guess. Maybe I don't know what I don't know. >> Yeah. The biggest complaint I saw with Fable or just even Opus in general was just like way too verbose. and without like adding extra skills. Like I know people use that caveman skill and all this other stuff, but I'm of the mindset like I'm just trying to use it the way they they're giving it to us. And I don't want to modify like any potential output. Not saying I'm against skills because I use certain skills, but I just don't want to like modify the way it responds to me if I feel like it should be responding at a level that I deem acceptable. Um, and it [clears throat] was just getting way too wordy like you're, you know, you're on the shortest path to success with this, you know, with this feature. Let me break it down for you. And it's like, dude, I don't need you to talk to me like that in the terminal, right? Where I do like 99% of my work is just straight up terminal. Um, I don't need all that. I need you to just tell me what you're about to do, summarize it, and like and then let's just execute. and Codeex just responds way better. It's just like >> here's you this is what you want me to build. Let's go. And um so I started using it more for that specifically on this project. And uh it just and also on this project it just did way better uh on uh front-end design. I started the core of this like the very very like crudest version of this on uh using cloud code which bounced between Fable and and Opus the front end was it wasn't horrific. It wasn't horrific, but it was like super basic. And then I asked it to like let's enhance the design and work with some different examples. And then it got like pretty horrific. And I was like, let me just run a pass. Let me just run a pass through codeex and let's just see how it does with the same examples and the same like context and prompts. And it just did freaking way better. So I'm like I'm now I'm just sticking with codeex through the rest of this through the rest of this project. So that's that's how you know I ended up here. But um I don't know. I've been working on this now few days probably I do a lot of goals with codeex right slashgoal um I started using it more like I started using slashgoal on features like instead of I I used to use just slashgoal as like a oneshot thing but now I'm just like slashgoal everything [laughter] right like here's this page here's this feature here's the goal, just go do it. Um, and um, Codex does a really good job at that. So, I've been doing a lot with that, but probably I want to say I had to guess maybe 10 to 15 million tokens so far. [clears throat] >> If I had to guess around that to build what what I've got here so far, which is, you know, pretty simple. Um, and uh, yeah, we'll see how it goes. >> Yeah, I mean, seems like it's working so far, assuming uh, this comes out. All right. So, [laughter] was was was that was the front end stuff though, are you talking about the website part or you talking about like the the app part that the users >> the app like all the app part it's like all the all the buttons that you're seeing, all like the interface of the app. Um, the website stuff I haven't even touched. Like I had a I just put a website up just for the at the root of the app. um just so that it's there and like the app runs in the app uh stuff structure um but uh everything in the front end design uh codeex has has done a remarkable job with uh versus versus claude and and and you know I gave it a really detailed um prompt and examples screenshots and layouts and stuff like that. The only thing I didn't do with this project, which could have been different from my last projects when I started in Claude, is I use the super p I in a lot of other bigger projects like this that I've built, I use the superpower skill in claude code and it's just that one is like really heavy. That one's like super tokenheavy. It plans out a lot. It takes a lot of time for a project to finish. And like with all things, I was like, I don't I don't want to use that. I want to I just want to make this thing like super lightweight. I'm just going to use it at the WP minute, which I still might do just at the WP minute. But then like the wheels started turning. [laughter] And I was like, well, what if [snorts] I just offered this for people who want like stupid simple podcast recording? And um that's >> obviously obviously obviously open sourced it and you know everything and >> right the the [snorts] source code will be available. The problem with this stuff is >> fully open >> is uh I I found that the uh like the technology that we're using right now to see and hear each other uh is not so [laughter] uh this is this is Cloudflare uh technology this the streaming part of this and there are other providers that that have >> um what what I would call like the tooling and the infrastructure to to do this part. Cloudflare doesn't do any of the recording part, right? So like all the recording uh all of the uh rendering and all all the buttons and the features of the product obviously is not Cloudflare. Cloudflare is just making the visual connection to you and I and the audio connection to you and I. Cloudflare is crazy. So much stuff they have over there. It's unbelievable. What's the What's this written in? Is it like Nex.js or >> Yeah. Yeah. This is just TypeScript, baby. This is pure JavaScript like Yep. Wow. >> Uh components uh front end components with uh Tailwind and Shad CN just to make things look um a little bit better and have like a component system for um you know buttons and and cards and dropdowns and modals and stuff like that. But even that I introduced late into the project like an idiot because once again I had started it going just buttons for me just buttons for me and Eric really. And then I was just like ah maybe buttons for more people. [laughter] So I was just like all right I got to make it look somewhat better. So, I did what what every good AI engineer does and I steamrololled the whole project uh with SLGO and I said freaking rewrite this thing with Tailwind and [laughter] Chad Cen. I'm going for lunch. You better be done when when I get back. Um and it actually did, you know, a fairly decent job. But that's been the biggest part of this stuff is um all of the um the UI and the different features that I want in it uh from day one. Otherwise, I you know, from a super basic recording, I I would have been done literally on day one with this. >> Yeah. UI is a pain in the ass. Yeah. >> Yeah. It's uh it's obviously really tough with websites and then it's Yeah. It's even tough with apps, though. Yeah. I mean, especially when you're trying to make them >> highly functional, but also uh not overwhelming. >> Yeah. >> So, >> rendering is is also big, literally, uh with this with this kind of thing. And I have no idea what that means at scale. um you know because uh everything's being recorded locally in our browsers. Um hopefully being uploaded in the background right now. [laughter] Uh and uh then it all has to be uh mixed and and rendered together, right, to make a complete uh video file. And I started using another service that I use for my local meeting site. Um, it's called Fly IO and it and it spins up uh job specific VPS's so or maybe task specific is a better phrase with like certain tooling on it. So if like I just wanted a VPS with ffmpeg on it so it could render the the video files when the when our recording is done. Um, and I use that for my civic meeting site, which renders all like the local city meetings that I that I uh that I download. But I found with this project, even with very small video files that I was testing with, for whatever reason, the render time was just way too long. It was like 10 minutes for four minutes of um not even four minutes of of like test uh videos. So, what we're recording right now is going to be a big test against a new platform that um Aaron, this guy that has another podcast and works for Laravel, uh Aaron Francis recommended called Modal. Modal.com modal.com modal.io. I >> think I heard of that. Yeah. Um, and it's supposed to be a lot more performant. I ran a couple tests and before this and it was way way more performant than fly.io. So, we'll see. And I don't know what my costs are going to be. [laughter] So, if we record for like a half hour or whatever, uh, we'll see what the actual uh, costs are. Um, because that's that's where the real the real stuff comes in. And if I have it do clips for me and transcripts and all this other stuff, we'll see what you know what the real costs are. But >> yeah. >> Yeah. I mean I I mean the thing again I don't know where you want to necessarily take it but the only the thing that comes to mind with that is you know there's I don't know how annoying how how deep you want to get into this but if you were serious about the pre the pre- discussion on where you want to talk about some of the stuff everything that I hear there I get excited about. I get excited to hear that you're navigating this you're agentically like trying to figure things out. Um, and throughout that, like I think that the interesting thing is if you obviously this is going to be, you know, posted hopefully as long as everything works here. But like, >> yeah, this [laughter] could just disappear by the way. This could just break. >> But let's assume that it doesn't. Let's assume that it doesn't. Like anytime that I I I notice it now obviously and you do as well. Like when you talk about these types of things, there's there's kind of two camps of reaction. One, oh, that's awesome. That's really maybe three. One's sometimes people are like, what are you talking about? Like I'm confused. The second one is, "Oh, that's awesome. You know, I did this, this, and this thing, too." And then the third one is like, "You're not understanding any of that. You're not da da whatever this, this, this." And I just think that a lot of times like one of the things that one of the push backs is that you're not you're not understanding things. You're not learning. You're just vibing. And again, we tal you said that earlier like I don't like that that term either because it's just been it was kind of like a quick off the rip thing by Carpathy or whatever, but it doesn't really describe a lot of people's actual usage of these platforms now. you just ripped off all of this stuff, all of these different individual services and pieces of infrastructure that there's probably a high likelihood that the average developer has no idea like what those things are, how they connect, etc., etc. And just because like you didn't write all the syntax for this app doesn't mean that like you didn't learn along the way doesn't mean that it doesn't work. I mean, it might mean that doesn't work, but it doesn't mean you can't fix bugs. It doesn't mean that you can't, you know, potentially sell this thing. um doesn't mean that you can't offer it to other people and you know even have other like agents or people like contribute to it. So um I just think it's interesting because like I mean I I see you know we've talked about this stuff for a long time uh not that long but long enough here at this point and that's it it's just I see a lot of that in my work now. It just empowers me to like learn more and understand new new softwares, new different types of stacks and different things like that. even if I'm not looking at the code, like I don't know. I don't I don't My thing doesn't like give me that many errors and bugs constantly. Like it's pretty good at coding. It's not the greatest at like the composition part. I wonder what your thoughts are on that. Like it gives you ideas for things and then you kind of have to weigh the options like you would if you were like a product manager, I would imagine, right? I mean, I've never been a product manager, but like that's kind of the role that you're in a little bit. Uh you just don't have to literally write all the syntax. But a lot of that I think is is still is is basically you know patterns. Um and I'm not saying I know exactly what the code quality is, but you know the stuff works and it's it's not like you know it's not like a one and done. It's you're going to try to continue to make the product better and either use it for yourself or you know make it you know go through the steps to make it uh you know safe and good for other people to use. So I don't know. It's just it's just weird cuz like nobody knew anything when you were hand coding everything. Nobody the thing you talked about with scale. Nobody understood when they started hand coding like apps, you know, 10 years ago. They had no idea what would happen at scale. Apple had no idea what was going to happen when they started. Like that these are normal problems. They're just like in a different package now and it's all still the same stuff. Like you still have to deal with the same [ \_\_ ] Uh it's just it's just now we have agents to to help us get there, you know, potentially more efficiently. So >> yeah, I was watching your latest video. you talking about this stuff and you know my my gut reaction [clears throat] I forget like what example you were you were using um and I and I agree but you know like all things it's nuanced uh [laughter] maybe we could start a podcast called can we spell nuanced with an ai in the middle [laughter] like kind of like to to hook into the the >> got a silent eye in there >> um >> but you're right like on pattern matching like here's my here's the feature I want you to build just go build it AI can you know is great at that but I think the thing that we're still seeing today is you still have to like you can get this thing if you said coding is is solved right like coding at large is solved now like it this just does it the output isn't necessarily going to be the best um both maybe in code quality which may may or may not matter right just if it's a little thing it's whatever if it's coded shittily but it works it's fine if it's like this big thing that needs to scale well maybe there'll be problems there that we have to figure out so of course like structurally there could be some edge cases but if coding is largely solved still though like UI user interface the design like that stuff you're still at least for this kind of thing like a entry level piece of software like this, I'm still looking at the stuff that it's giving me going, "Okay, this this isn't going to work." Like, "This doesn't even make sense." Like where you put these buttons, like all these labels and it does all like the AI things of like so many horizontal rules everywhere. It's just like this looks like [ \_\_ ] Like I I need you to rework this. And it's going back through the system and like massaging it and and telling it to make different changes and looking at examples. And I think that's where we still have to be here at least for the next 6 months to a year. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm not Yeah. I don't I don't think that the uh the immediate answer is up. It it solves like everything. It does everything. I think that there's a couple things. I think coding is solved is kind of too too uh generalized. I mean, I think that largely syntax is solved. Like I mean even the biggest anti-AI people or like the biggest critics I've seen like they'll still admit that like oh it can write code like it it can write code. Like I don't know how you could possibly argue with that. Like it it writes code like the code works. Is it the best code? No. But the thing that like it's again it's I mentioned a little bit in that video. I don't need to like I don't want to like harp on it but like again it's just to me it's like what happened 10 years ago? Didn't you like you know let's say you wanted to do this 10 years ago, right? and you were a developer and you wanted to build an app like this that's like a you know kind of like a Riverside type deal like do you think that the first time that you wrote the code like the first 20 you know first hundred files of of of code that you wrote first you know I don't know 40,000 lines of code do you think they're all going to be like there in a couple years like I I I don't I'm actually I'm assuming this this is hypothesis but I don't think developers literally just kept the stuff like when they scaled they had to change things they had to adapt they had to evolve like it's not like the first time you write something, it's going to be perfect every single time. But again, this is just more efficient, faster. Um, and I mean, it's it's it's hard to argue with it. It's some sometimes I feel like I'm in kind of like a like a weird like black mirror type thing. I've never actually watched that show, but like I feel like I'm in this weird this weird thing where like people are like telling me that the stuff doesn't work, but now I'm literally using it every single day and I'm building things for myself. I'm building things for clients and I'm like, "Wait a second. Somebody told me this wasn't going to work. This works. Like, this is working pretty well. Like, what's what's going on here? So, it's just kind of weird. Like, I don't I don't know where it all comes from. Um, and again, it's not all it's not all solved. I think we do need to we do still need to uh have a big piece in it. And you know the thing that you are absolutely right about and I would and I say it a little differently is the fact that like I often project my lived experience and my experience that I have in in my you know I don't know 10 years of just being on the internet like if you if you were talking to an [clears throat] an 18 or a 20-year-old just literally definitionally they're going to have less experience right like with with like understanding like what a good UI looks like or what a good product looks like or what technologies unless they're obviously like a a genius and they've been doing it since they were 10 or whatever. But that is real and that's the real problem here is cuz you have everyone in their mother talking about AI and everyone has a different level of experience and it's it it's hard to really weed out like who's not like you know BSing you at this point with some of the stuff. Um but really the answer though is to just go see if you can do it yourself. Like just go go play with it. Like I was talking to, you know, um somebody else today or recently and they were like, "Yeah, I just need to like stop consuming so much and just go do it because I need to form my own opinions." And if you form and if you actually use it, like you will probably form some solid opinions. Yeah, I was at the barber shop. I was like, he's like, "Yeah, I don't you know, I don't really I've never really I use chatbt like as a search engine once and I'm like, well, you know, if you if you literally went home right now, opened your voice recorder on your phone, talked to talked for 10 minutes about like your life, what your goals are, etc., etc., etc. The and then you compared what you had before to what you have now like when you put that in like your output and the things you're trying to achieve from that like the the the quality of everything and this is not news to most people listening probably the quality would be drastically different because it actually knows like what you're trying to do. It's not just like guessing based off of all this stuff. And for better or worse, I think a lot of this has been pitched as just magic, you know? Oh, it's just magic. It just does all this stuff. It's what? It's not the case. It's not the case. And then I And then you have people that are critics that are like they're they're taking that at face value. They're not like having, you know, actual good faith arguments in some of the ways because that's not what like people like I'm are saying. I'm not saying it's magic. I'm saying it's really effective. And I've my whole goal right now is to learn how to leverage it as best as I can for as long as it exists because you know the financial side of it is a little bit of concern. We've talked about that before. I don't know what's going to happen there. I can't predict that. But I don't think AI is as an as a concept is going away any ever like anytime soon unless we all justap kapoof. >> Yeah. I mean the the only thing that that worries me this is something else that popped into my head and I'm glad you reminded me about it just now when I was watching your video. Um, something that I've been like thinking about. I I put out a small like Twitter thread the other day actually when I was on vacation like thinking about I've been using Hermes uh for about a little over a month now and just trying to find uses for a lot of this stuff. and um Grockbot of course like again like I just see so many people that I follow who are you know diehard cursor and then then they're dieh hard CEX and then they're all in on Cursor and Claude uh Grockbots and now they're already off that play they lasted there for like two not even not even two weeks like a week three days and they were already like switching away from it and I'm like trying to find these use cases but the only thing like when I put my tin foil hat on as I like to is you know like when Google came out and Facebook came out we were all like oh like look at search this is awesome like I can find anything on the web and then Facebook came out and it's like oh cool like we can communicate with friends and family and share photos or posts at least when it first came out but then like years goes by go by and then like they become um I don't want to say like sur it's not I'm not going like crazy tinfoil hat like surveillance but it's like they become big ad networks and it's just like we are just feeding that machine I don't know what we're feeding with this stuff right like I just don't know what we're feeding with this stuff and like what the outcome is cuz this same feeling that like we're talking about now like yeah like whatever coding's 90 90% solved and I can build cool [ \_\_ ] Like I could never build this before. Never in a million years could I build a podcast recording app, but now I can. And then like the other voice in my head goes, boy, you sound like how excited you were about Facebook, you know, to use that as an example. And now and then then like years later, you realize, holy [ \_\_ ] I probably shouldn't have been given Facebook so much stuff. Like what are we doing here? And in like four [snorts] to or five to 10 years, like what do we look back on and go, "Oh god." Like we just made like we put Google like we all made Google the the monopoly of of search cuz we were like fast like we're getting it. It's getting the best results. They got cool tools around it. Then they got email and everybody's like, "Oh man, you got to have a Gmail account." And then it was all like the same. And then that all happened with social media networks, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, you know, and then we look back on it and go, "God damn, should we done that?" And [laughter] like, "What are we doing with this?" And and I I don't have the answer for it, but u it does like stick in the back of my mind. >> I don't have an answer for it either. Um I mean, the personal belief around that is that the more time I spend thinking about that, the less time I spend uh trying to leverage the opportunity. And obviously there's going to be a lot of people that don't like agree with oh you should if you believe if you don't believe or what you should have an opinion you should fight for it. What I mean like I my opinion is that it's a great opportunity. I'm trying to use it as as ethically as possible but also as effectively as possible to uh count to legitimately I'll I'll say it like directly like uh capitalize on the amount of leverage that I see other people capitalizing on right now. Like I mean it's it's it's the gold rush time. You can either be trying to look for gold, selling the shovels, combination of both, whatever. Um, but it's it's never going to be as well, I'm not going to say it's never going to be as cheap as it is right now or whatever, cuz I I still think there's like the technology and the concept is completely out of the bag that even though I can't run Cloud Code level stuff on my 2080 over here in this machine, like I could still like I could still do the stuff, I just wouldn't be as good. I don't think there's really a world where I don't see a hypothesis. I don't see how we could possibly go back to the manual nature of doing a lot of this stuff. And obviously that's going to have implications, but you know what I mean? That's just I I don't know how to say it. Like I feel like I'm 30 years old and I think sometimes like a like like a like a like a 90-year-old in a way. Like it it's just going to happen. Like I'm maybe it's nihilism. I don't know what it is. It's just going to continue to happen. It's too big. Like it's too powerful. um it's going to continue to move in the direction that it's moving. The best thing that I could do is be a force for like like not let not doing not using it poorly, I guess, or whatever. I mean, this is just the world, you know? I feel like there's with not just with AI but like you know with all the other thoughts that have been out there like you know I mean I don't know like cryptos and not crypto is not really a great perfect example but there's just all these things that have that have transpired over time and some people love them some people hate them but ultimately like the thing that the thing that wins out is the one that uh does seem like pushes us forward. I mean, there's so many other examples now with like all the things that have happened. Internet, television, phone, cars, like all these things. Like, I know I I wasn't alive for those things. I mean, you could probably tell me about the internet, but like I mean, I asked my parents that yesterday. I was talking to him some AI [ \_\_ ] and they're like, "Oh, you can't trust everything that's in there." It's like, "Bro, I know you can't trust everything that's in there, but like I mean, it's it's we're not we're not operating on the same wavelength here or the same the same predisposed knowledge of the stuff." And I was like, "What's going what happened with the internet? Were there people that hated the internet? I mean, I I'll pass I'll post that to you. Like, what I mean, so like what are we, >> you know, it's all good or bad? >> I was I was in the gold rush of the internet as a salesperson cuz I was working at Circuit City and we were selling uh broad like when broadband uh your cable internet provider uh which was called Roadrunner at the time uh or that was the brand of it. Uh we were selling that at cable modems and the internet connection there. And um yeah, you'd have a ton of people like coming in and they were either like, "No, I don't want that." Like high-speed, I don't I don't need high-speed internet. Um you know, is is what people would say. They maybe they were on dialup uh still using like AOL and CompuServe at the time. Um but yeah. Oh yeah, there was definitely, you know, people are like, I don't I what do I need this for? You know, a hundred bucks. It was a hundred bucks to sign up and it was I forgot. I think the cable modem was $249. People like no way. like I'm I'm not buying this thing. Like you could buy, you know, a whole at the time you could buy a printer, you know, that you're like, I'm not going to buy I'm just going to buy a printer. I'm going to have a computer at home. I'm a printer and that's all I need. Um, but sure, like there was definitely, you know, a kickback there. But, you know, the the only thing that I that and I I I don't want to turn this into like just conspiracy talk, but like it it's the thing I always go back to is is the typical Facebook play cuz that's the one that I saw play out as a consultant and when we were running the agency, like the early days of the agency and just like trying to figure out how to do more than just websites and it was like, well, there's this thing called Facebook and everybody wants to be on Facebook at the time. people like, "Oh, you got to be on Facebook to connect with your customers." And that was the same thing that's like happening now, like, "Oh, you got to be using this and you got to be there." And it was like, "This is a great way to communicate with customers." And if you made a a Facebook post, everybody saw it. And then as the years went by, like that got squeezed more and more and they pushed everybody for fan uh pages uh likes to the page to be, you know, likes on the on the Facebook page. And then as soon as like everyone got to like this critical mass of a thousand, then it was like, "Oh, you got to start paying for ads to reach that audience." So at one point you could reach all 10,000 fans by just posting and then they just squeeze the algorithm until you and in order to reach all those people, you then had to pay. And that's the only thing that I'm worried about here is where the knowledge goes or excuse me, where the intelligence goes in terms of cost, right? And so like you and I are loving it now because it's subsidized. You know, 10 million tokens roughly to build what I built here. Hasn't exceeded my codeex app yet or my codeex plan yet at 100 bucks a month. Um we're enjoying it now, but where does that turn to that cost in five years? Are we spending thousands a month? Does it matter? I I don't know. >> I mean it it it matter. I mean again the first thing is again take advantage of it. Now, that's like literally the the the answer. But the second thing, I mean, still I there's a because of all this, I feel like more than ever there's been these types of arguments where, well, what if what if that? And I know you're not necessarily making that argument in that in that way, but like that that is what that's a real argument that people make constantly. It's like, what if this or what if this or what happens when this happens? Like, bro, I I'm I don't deal in like hypo complete hypotheticals. um you know so um because I just don't think it's like overly overwhelmingly uh like healthy to do that because like I'm just wasting time doing whatever. But I mean if you want to get if you want to think about it like the question would be is a little bit different. It's like do we like let's think about like Fable 5.1 or whatever or we or you think about like um like soul like do you think everyone really needs access to that? You know what I mean? Like I think the the a possible reality moving forward is like you built this this cool thing with soul but like this is like the best in the world or like you know touted as the best in the world. Like does everyone really need that? Like does that that's the most expensive or you know one of the most expens I know it's not the most expensive like Fable or whatever but I'm saying like we're dealing with like the the the edge here. There's people that don't even mess with the chatbt app at all. Right. And we're we're at the very edge. So, I'm just thinking like I'm thinking out loud like does this is could part of the future be that there's just different types of like AI assistance and we just so happen because of our like where we're at in in our in our businesses in the industry in our interests. We're literally on the cutting edge and therefore we will always be and for us it may get more expensive because we want the best stuff. However, there is another angle to it and it's like this stuff costs money so therefore if we want to use it we have to spend money to get it possibly more money and therefore we need to be making money from it right like if you do like a like a you know if you do like a uh and just like a thought exercise it's like well you made this Riverside type clone app like this podcasting app right it's like okay well should should everyone really be doing that like is that even like does it make sense that everyone should have the ability to be able to do this for basically no money. It's probably not like it doesn't really it like how does that affect the rest of the economy, etc., etc. And is it actually sustainable like we've talked about? It's probably not. But we're obviously in that period where it is a little it's very heavily subsidized and it it like makes sense to play with these things. But like obviously if you had to pay for 15 million tokens, you would have probably had a little bit more like oh I should probably like do this and definitely be selling it or definitely have a you know a uh a revenue plan behind it, etc., etc. I think we're just incredibly fortunate. We're just incredibly fortunate to be in the position we're at right now. just like you instead of me were incredibly unfortunate unfortunate when you were in Circuit City during the internet thing. It's literally just how life works. Pretty much every generation seems like has like a at least one gold rush time that they're potentially uh positioned well for. And anybody that's not like that that is that sucks. Like I don't know what to say about that. I'm I don't have all the the the worldly problems solved here. Um, but yeah, I mean I think that uh that's pretty much the answer for me is just take advantage of it if if if at all possible. Try to help try to let other people know. That's the other thing too is I'm not trying to like you could also make the argument, oh well you're [ \_\_ ] doing all this stuff but you're you're trying to like hoard it from other not what I'm doing at all. I literally tell other people all the time and I get bitched at for it. So it's like sometimes so it's like you know what are we doing here? Um, but yeah, that's that's that's kind of all you can do I feel like in that regard. And yeah, there's a lot of hypotheticals that could go anyway, but you know, can't really tell the future. So, I don't really know exactly um I don't know exactly how to handle that one. Uh [sighs] we you kind of you you could argue about that forever obviously. Um >> so tough. >> We're going to leave it at that because I'm getting a warning in my app [laughter] that I'm running out of storage. So, >> we got to go figure out how to scale this thing. >> I got [laughter] to go figure out how to scale this thing. I'm I'm looking at my uh I'm I'm I'm watching gigabytes going down on my disc [laughter] drive right now. [gasps] All righty. So, we're going to wrap that up. He's Mark Zamansky. You can find him at mjs.bio if the video rendered uh and you actually see this outro 35 minutes in. Um, yeah, we we'll be back to talk more AI stuff uh in the future. I'm going to Florida Friday through Wednesday. I'll see you on the flip side., It's the AI Gold Rush, WP Minute Podcasts, 01m1m8h0451bx7rsk3vq0fsgwd.