OpenAI Nerfed Your Tokens  🔗 **Source:** [OpenAI Nerfed Your Tokens](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5llBhv8TQ4) [00:00:00] at day because who knows today, we got some spicy stuff for you. We are your hosts, as always, Robby the Wagner and Adam Thomas, our guy with the nerd, what is up? Everybody get ready. Sup, sup. Yeah, I missed a lot of news. I feel like this week. So this will be, we will all be learning along with myself from all of the knowledge Adam can give us today. Um, the one thing I did see, which, uh, well, work on opening this whiskey while I mentioned it, but, um, the open AI stuff, like they had a conference or something and announced that they were going to nerf everything they have and then also charge you $500 a month. [00:00:45] So we'll get into that more in a bit. But first we get to start with some whiskey. Okay, I got all the social shared out. Well, yeah, we got ourselves jipped the creed today, six year weeded bourbon. What a name. Um, what a name is a little hard to say, but I loved the fact about the bloody butcher. So we'll have to get into that here in a second. Oh, yeah, I did not read the notes yet, but it's a weeded bourbon, which I tend to prefer. Oh, I was just, so the reason I chose this today, by the way, is because I was just in Kansas City. I was there for a wedding, there for a couple days, tried as many local, uh, bourbon as I could and barbecue, of course. And yeah, anyway, this one. [00:01:30] So it's like, I was just there. There's one of these that we need to get through. Let's, let's do the Kentucky one. And of course, yeah, the weeded that I tried it was my favorite. Nice. All right. Yes. It was six years old. It's weeded 70% corn, 15% rye, 10% weed, 5% barley. Uh, the master to stiller was a prior engineer. Now she rocks the stills companies, 100% woman owned it. And that's cool. Jeopardha doesn't sound like a woman's name though, but hey. Maybe it's like a shout out to something local. They had like a local city or local person that they were shouting out with that. Okay. Yeah. Secret ingredient is bloody butcher corn. This is special kind of corn. [00:02:12] Uh, is this a red one, I guess? Ooh, that is different. It is a red corn. Yeah. Nice. Nice. Yeah. So the, we had the Jimmy red corn one. I don't know if you had that one, but I had that one. Did you have that one? No, it wasn't me. It was not good only because it was like two years old. So it was like really young and shitty. Yeah. But, um, I think it was a really cool story. There's this, I don't know if it's similar, but it was like it almost went extinct. They were down to like two years of corn and they like brought it back, um, and use that. And I was like, that's a really cool story. And so I got it. And yeah, it was not great. It could be older. Let's try this one. Yeah, those young, young ones are a little tough. And I'm learning that that's what I really don't like or the young ones. [00:02:58] Um, but the bourbons are fine. I don't, I just don't love a bourbon. They get so sweet. Um, yeah, they all smell like butter scotch at the apple juice. Oh, yeah. And, uh, ooh, a black pepper. Oh, yeah, a little blackberry. There's a lot of ethanol on the nose. It's very boozy smelling. Yeah. How do we do that again? You put your whole nose underneath the cup somehow? Yeah, the top or the bottom, which I do genuinely think makes a difference. Um, however, you know, maybe the first time I went in and I don't know, it's, it's still fun to see if it's a little different. Yeah, um, you have the correct glass. I didn't look I do. I do with the chowd on the bottom that they call. [00:03:42] Yeah. Well, that was pretty. Look at how pretty that was. Yeah, wow. Wow. All right. Well, let's start out. So yeah, uh, opening, I did some fun stuff. So yeah, I want to raise the whistle here. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, my bad. Okay. I'm getting too excited. I wrote to eight tentacles go six. What about you, Robbie? It's pretty good. Six. Next. All right. Open AI. What were you sick? Oh, yeah. Oh, uh, so yeah, I read the thread where they were justifying the changes to their subscription. And it was kind of hard to hard to, hard to read. You know, they were like, there's a way better than these to be. So we're going to charge you more and you're going to get less, but they're better. So it'll be better. [00:04:26] Everything's better. Everybody and everyone's like, now it kind of sounds like less, uh, but, you know, whatever. Yeah. Uh, anthropic did something similar. Uh, I forget exactly what there's was, but they put throughout a ton of percentages. Do you remember this or they're like, our max plan, we increased by 50%. Now we are going to decrease that increase by 25% to like, I don't know, it's basically like we're fucking you. But you couldn't figure out the numbers. Oh, geez. That's pretty much what, what was going on here. Um, yeah, honestly, the models are genuinely better. So whether it's opus 5.5 or asterisks 6.1 or soul 6.1, these are, these are frontier badass models right now. [00:05:08] They're kicking ass. So, um, so the one thing I did see you could get, which I don't know if you know anything about is if you, you have to have the $500 plan to get Astra ultra fast. Which I guess is faster. But like, that is something I've noticed with Astra is like, it's very good at getting the technical details right, but it takes a long time. Or like, whereas opus would just be like, here's some code and you're like sick. But then yeah, Astra like takes its time, tries to get it right. Um, so I'm wondering if there's like a middle ground with the ultra fast or like, and how that even differs from just setting like a thinking level, like do you know anything about any of this? No, uh, I do know that Astra is pretty slow, um, but the work has been really impressive. [00:05:56] It's been my go to for the past week and a half or two. I think we talked about that last week. I'm like, Astra is kind of killing it for me. But then of course, like right after that, uh, everybody comes out with a new model. And so it's just like, oh, but opus 5.5 is better than Astra. So I guess I'll just use that. I'm like, oh, wait, here's 6.1 soul. I guess I'll use soul for it, but it's pretty fast. It's doing great work. Oh, I have a theory that they keep doing that. And when they do that, they give you like a better, like they give you a better one to get hooked. So like opus 5.5 or let's, let's, let's go back, right? Like opus four or something like, like, whoa, this is way better. And then like opus five was kind of meh, but like 5.5 was, is like super magical again. [00:06:43] It's like fable territory. And I don't understand how a like minor bump got us there, which makes me suspicious that they're like feeding it into like fable or something behind the scenes. Like, like that it's that they do that for a bit. And then it gets worse or maybe I'm getting used to it. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know what the regression scenario is. You know, sometimes it seems like they try to pack it up and fill its brain with more stuff. And then it just makes it more confused. But then later they somehow pull it off. And I'm, I'm not sure. We're all kind of just experiencing their, their play right now. You know what this feels like it reminded me the other day. It's just like when you used to buy a modem. And you're like, I got 20 what 28 eight. Yeah, look at me. [00:07:25] This is way faster than, and then I'm like, Oh, shit. But my friend just got 56 K dude. It's twice as fast. Oh my, look at how fast that image loaded. It took like 10 seconds. Oh my god. And then what's like DSL. I feel like we're in that same thing right now. Where we're watching this happen so fast that it's making the computer you bought yesterday. Just feel it's making the model you used last week feel whack. And that is really hard on the brain and the psyche as you're like, I don't know how to focus and get through all this. So I don't know. Yeah, I mean, it's been very disruptive for me. I've also been like, I've been lucky that I'm not paying for my own stuff at work. So like I can just use the highest tier everything. [00:08:09] That's probably not going to be the case for personal stuff. Although I do want to apply for that codex for open source thing. Oh, I did. You sent that to me and I applied. I had a nice. Yeah. So it'll be really funny if I apply after you and I hope you do. I hope you do. And then you can give me your keys. Yes. Yes. No, I don't understand like you would think that. I don't know. I feel like everyone would know who you are there, but like maybe not. It's a whole new world, I guess. Another thing. So the irony, you know, like, Hey, we got to slow down everybody's psych. Here's brand new models, psych. [00:08:54] Here's brand new models. Again, psych. Here's Tom MacGachies. Everyone's like, we got a Tom MacGachie this week. And then we're like, Psych, you all need to learn what. Hillclimbing is this week. Did you see all the hillclimbing? There's like so many the every day. I'm like, Oh, my goodness. Another team, what the Tom MacGachies or the Hillclimbing is about. I don't understand the still putting models out that has been. They definitely did not slow down. That was a, Hey, let's agree to slow down. All right. Everybody worked really hard while the other team slows down. We're going to slow down after we release another one real quick. Yeah. Super funny. What the time of God. We're going to make money because like it costs a lot. And they're subsidized a lot. [00:09:37] So like the, if you did an API cost, like I think Theo is saying, like a, you know, $200 a month, a cloud subscription gets you like $9,000 worth of like API credits, basically, or something like that. So it's a really good deal. But even if they were charging $9,000, I feel like it wouldn't be making them enough money. And so I'm like, I'm skeptical because I'm like, you know, as five seconds later, someone in China is like, here you go. Here's the same thing. It's a little, a little less good, but like it's free basically. So I'm, I'm really, I think the value prop is going away. And I think they're scared to death of like losing all other valuation. But at the same time, I don't know if they, we can let the bubble pop because like [00:10:23] pretty much everyone in the world's money is in it. So it's like, it's just kind of propped up. It's a really, really tricky situation. Yeah. Well, I mean, a Jeff is kind of in the same boat. Jeff's like two years, stealth, we've working on this. No one's getting then copied within hours, big companies copy of it within a week. And you're like, well, they probably looked like they had some runway and they don't. And that sucks to have work and to have such an impact and really change everyone's mind and do something innovative and then just have it ripped from you in minutes. And for your face, it's terrible. And it was cheap already to begin with, right? So it's like, they were already hedging, hedging margins. [00:11:07] So they should have used it to see if that outcome was coming. Oh, burn, damn, dude. That was fire. Wow, you really think that Zingad or Zingad, Zingad, Zingad, I don't know. Zingad was the where you played Farmville Zingers, where you got Zing, I guess, yeah. And Zing. I don't know. All right. Yeah, tell me about Tomagotchi's. Let's talk about the Tomagotchi's. I mean, I'm calling them Tomagotchi's. I'm sure that there's people out there like, what's a Tomagotchi? And I'm like, well, I'm 40. And so these were really cool. And I was the kid, okay. But anyway, they're like, they're still cold. My kids have some and they love them anyway. Okay, I'll talk about it. There's a open AI announced dots, which is there. A lot of these things kind of feel like a familiar. [00:11:54] They're they're personifying agents. Actually, that's honestly what happened this week. If you wanted to like encapsulate what happened, there's personification of agents. There's there's another one that's called him and him joins you on video calls and takes on everything has a voice. It's literally like a person that you're interfacing with like a coworker. So right now, you know, I'm like, I got agents and they kind of feel like coworkers. Like you can have them literally like join you in a call and look and act like a coworker. That's him dots are the thing from open AI that it's like a personality behind an agent. It's like your own open claw that's got a personality muse charm came out from Facebook. So you got the muse line of things. The charm is this lit. It's literally like a little holding up my hand. [00:12:37] Everybody almost like I'm holding a pebble or like a smooth rock, a small rock in my hand. But it's got a screen on it kind of looks like a iPhone watch or not an iPhone watch. An Apple watch, but you take off the wristband and you hold it. That would be the muse charm. And that's got the brand new agent to experience from Facebook, which gives you cloud VMs and everything runs privately inside of their cloud. And so yeah, their new VR glasses that I did. And I told my buddy who works and he works on the glasses stuff. And I was like, hey, the VR glasses look really sick. And he was like, they are sick. The form factor is very cool. He goes, however, the field of view is really tiny. So even though you have an OLED 4K in each eye, they're not immersive. And he goes also, who's it for? [00:13:26] It's like, who wants partially immersive cool glasses? And I was like, yeah, I don't know. I'm okay with not making the form factor better if you can make the experience better. Like I have an Oculus, I don't know the original, but like the two, I don't know. I think I have a two. Yeah. Yeah. And like a quest or those the same. I don't remember. I'm not sure. We got those because like Chuck was like, Hey, we should do some metaverse meetings, like through COVID and stuff. And like, yes, like hang out in there and like, we would do some company games and stuff. And like, it was cool for that. It's cool for like a gimmick. But yeah, the screens were like super low definition, like pretty shitty. I'm sure they're better now. [00:14:13] But like, I think everyone would be fine with it staying the exact same size and like annoyance on your head factor, if it was like flawless, like, you know, real life. Yeah, and that's that was his big point. But then I don't know, you find the ones that are completely immersive and they're just, anyway, it's cool technology. People should be working on these things. It is a sort of tool without a product market fit. But I don't know. That's kind of cool. And honestly, it's called the same about the Tomacaches or like a ton of screens, basically. You get a lot of screens. I've worn a lot of the really subtle ones too, where they basically augment your reality with more screens and their big screens that you genuinely can see and do work on. [00:15:02] The thing is, is I'm just like, I don't want to go sit on the back porch and work. I kind of like having a little cozy office. Yeah. What about all the bugs? Don't you have like multiple shotguns back there trying to shoot all the... Yeah, I don't mean literally my back porch. I mean, I like that idea. So when I'm at the lake, my dad has like two screen porches there. So I'll sit on those and no bugs bother me there. And it's nice. Like you can just watch the water and work. This feels cozy. It's cozy. You can definitely get cozy with it. Anyway, I like the Tomacaches too. I'm always a bit of a fan. And one day, I would love to have a familiar that follows me around. [00:15:45] I don't think it should be an agent. But I don't know if we've all got contacts with augmented reality. We can see each other's little pets flying around. I'll definitely have one. That'd be cool. It'd be like his dark materials, but you know, VR-ish. Yeah. All right. Well, let's talk about hill climbing, because it sounds like you missed that chew, chew train, is it? So hill climbing, it's a little annoying to me that it has this whole name and this whole explanation, because it's very similar to auto research. But it auto research is kind of brute force. It can be incremental, but hill climbing is this idea that [00:16:30] you nudge something forward in these tiny little bits until you get to a success. And you can think about rust rewrites being hill climbing. You've got these really big changes that you need to make. They need to be incremental, or at least being incremental is going to be valuable for you. And hill climbing is this technique. And so now it got popular. And then it got built into cloud as like a mechanism that you can kind of invoke. And it's like, hey, we're optimized now for hill climbing. If that's a technique you want to use to get some work done, it's now built into the harness. And so it's just like another word for a wigum loop. I mean, we started with wigum loops, because every time you pump up an agent, they're just like little morons. [00:17:13] So it's like, hi, I'm here. What's the world like? And you're like, here's a little bit about what the world's like. And then go do this thing for me. Oh, okay. And so we're trying to get to more like advanced scenarios that are a little less brute force, a little less, you know, more on cartoon doing work. And now we're like, oh, no, we're hill climbing. Yeah, we're pushing the boulder gently and, you know, sequentially and incrementally big words to end with ALY up a hill. Anyway, so that's the hill climbing is. Yeah, I mean, isn't this essentially instead of going build me a website, make no mistakes, like actually planning a thing out into steps and doing it iteratively, just like you should be doing in a good software development life cycle. [00:17:58] Like it doesn't seem that groundbreaking to me to decide that, hey, agents will actually do better. Just like humans will do better if you break it into small, easy to do pieces. Yeah, self-explanatory, pretty self-explanatory. Ground breaking, that's what I meant. There's an aspect to hill climbing that I'm not including here, which is about evals. And so this would be someone showing it be like, you know, they push the glasses. Well, actually hill climbing has to, you have to have evals because that that's how it knows. It incrementally pushed something up a little bit. And so people are trying to tighten the ship, tighten the way that they incrementally improve something. And so hill climbing just became this trendy way because I think a couple weeks ago, [00:18:45] we talked about the, what was it, the gauntlet, the quality gauntlet or something like that. And I liked the quality gauntlet because basically you paint the picture of the perfect thing, and it loops until it does and looks and acts and behaves like the perfect thing. And this is kind of the opposite mentality where you've got these evals that eval to a perfect thing or something ideal, almost like a unit test. It's almost like being TDD, but here's like agentic TDD. Anyway, everybody go ahead and check out automating eval design and hill climbing with cloud if you're interested in modern agentic workflows for building complex applications and stuff. Yeah, I mean, so my big problem, and I think we've talked about this several times, it's like, I think it's, I think it's diminishing returns, like learning all this new stuff, [00:19:35] the day it comes out, trying to optimize your process around it, it'll be gone in like three days. And then the next thing comes out, and is it worth like, I don't know if it's worth anything, I think some of the ideas around it are probably something you'd want to keep. Like we run tons of evals on the stuff we're doing at work and run them overnight and you know everything that's broken the next day and stuff too, which is nice. So that's fine, iterative development, definitely what you should be doing. But I think everyone, going forward, computer science as a thing, I feel like we'll boil down to a few core concepts of iterative development, writing specs, like, you know, doing all of the things that will help you not just like, [00:20:25] type, make me website. And that's kind of all you'll need to know, like we'll need to do a little bit of education around that. But otherwise, I feel like just doesn't matter. It's like, know the core concepts and you're fine. You don't need extra tools. Like with, I don't know how many months ago it was now where you were, you were in on the tools, you were like, I installed everything. I got all the skills, I did all the stuff. And then it like, it's just your context was just like huge and couldn't do anything. So it's like, yeah, I mean, I don't know. I feel like the models are just getting good enough that we don't need half this stuff. Yeah. Ooh, that leads to nicely into, um, see, I think it's on here. Yeah, uh, framework's here in the way now. Um, I'm like, well, frame rails is gone, right? Right. Wasn't that the big news? I think DHA said he's done rails is done now. Oh really? I know he [00:21:16] made some like big, uh, announcements, but I didn't realize that he was just like, you don't need it. Okay. That's actually, I'm on board with that. I didn't even hear that. I watched some of his talk. Um, I didn't see him denounce rails, but I'm in this boat now because it's like to me, I'm like frameworks were, um, and even just, uh, computer science concepts were for us, our squishy ass human brains to try to, uh, reason with a system that's far more complicated than we can comprehend in one moment. If you break it into a small independent pieces, the independent pieces can work together in tandem in a big system. And that way when I dip into something, I can understand this chunk. This is why we do abstractions. This is why we're like component models and we like frameworks to handle things that we can, they don't matter to an LLM. [00:22:01] It does not care. In fact, if anything, and they've been getting in our way for years, every framework I've ever adopted has always gotten in my way in some particular way or not. Even the web platform, so it's like, even platforms can kind of get in the way, but at that point, you're as low levels you can get really. So, but what I'm getting at is like, agents don't need those. They don't have trouble with IDs. You know, they're not going to have conflicting IDs in the application. They already know what those are and they can memorize all of them infinitely and in one little moment ago. Yeah, they're all unique. And they'd be done with it. There's so many things we've adopted for ourselves that just don't matter anymore. It used to get better performance when you don't use it. But now it's not. Now it doesn't matter. You're right. But it was not that long ago that it was like, [00:22:48] if you were using Rails or Ember or something that was very opinionated, it was really good for, especially if it was in like TypeScript or like agents to know exactly like, oh, I can't fuck this up because I have to do it this way because that's what the framework tells me to do. But yeah, now it doesn't really need that. Yeah, so a lot of people are arguing with me at work and they're like, I still I'm still going to build linters and I'm still going to build in a typed system because I want my agents to have the fast feedback. And I'm like, well, cool. It doesn't care. I'm going to build end-to-end tests that make sure that their journeys can happen because like you've seen the meme where like all four unit tests pass on this door except the door doesn't open. You know, like there's like things clunking into each other. It's like, oh, [00:23:34] shit, you went all in on TDD, but didn't do any end-to-end tests. And now people can't actually use your app, but all your tests pass. And I'm like, I don't want that. I don't want my linter and test to all pass and my types to be good, but you can't get any shit done. I want to make sure that you can get shit done on the rest of it's noise. Man, the rest of it's for the machines these days. Like I got journeys to fulfill not my new shot to make sure that it runs fast for the stupid agent anyway. So I was just going to say that I think I hear what you're saying, but I think that linting and tests are going to get a little bit blurred. Like the way I'm thinking about linting now is like putting in rules that will stop the agent from doing the wrong thing in a deterministic way because like linting can, you know, sometimes auto-fix itself and like do [00:24:21] whatever. And like, so it's essentially like extension of the skill, except it actually works because it doesn't have to read it and remember to read it. It's just like that's part of your pipeline, you know? So whether you call that linting or whether you write literally like a bash script that goes and checks all that shit before it commits or whatever, like same concept, but I think that some sort of automated thing that ensures that if you're like these paradigms need to be met, that they are always met. Like whether that's a linter, whether that's into in-test, whether it's some of both, whatever. Like I think that there's a place for all of it. Yes, there's a place for it. It's just, um, here's another one of the things I wanted to chat about today, which is we've lived in, oh, there's so many things I want to chat about. Like one of them [00:25:08] is the sunken cost fallacy. Like we've been for what are we at 20 years of trying to invest in frameworks to and component models and just different things to empower us to make better, stronger software. And I think a lot of people are going to really struggle to get rid of these because of some cost fallacy. They're so invested in these concepts and that maybe even they own a framework or they built a framework and they're like, no, my framework can do it. Just let me fucking hang on. It's going to work. You know, I'm just like, all right, I'll be over here doing vanilla. But actually, I don't even care what it does, but I know it works better faster than yours. So you can, anyway, use whatever you want as long as it works. But we've been in this an imperative mentality for this is why people hate CSS. CSS is declarative. HTML is declarative. And people are like, hmm, they shake it off. They're like, nah, declarative stuff sucks. You give up [00:25:56] too much. You're not in control enough. You describe what you want. I want to say how it works because that's what really, really tickles my brain. You know what I'm like, I'm in the same boat, working a bit JavaScript, Java, any imperative language I've written is very challenging, very satisfying, very fun. But guess what? It's gone because all we need to be able to do now in an agentic world is to describe what I want because how is it? How is always going to be done better than whatever I was going to do? And it figures out how to copy cats to not always, but I mean, like, let's imagine Fable 10. Let's imagine Astra 10. You know, we are way better telling it how how to do things. And we'll just be asking for what? I mean, words, we're like close right now. We are over the hump of us defining how things work and to [00:26:45] describing what I want. And that's why I'm ditching my TDD. I'm going straight for end-to-end tests and and journeys that I need to be fulfilled. And because I'm like, I need to, I need to focus my attention on what I want, which is kind of awesome. That's maybe that's why I've always liked CSS is I like describing what I want and letting an engine take care of things. And a lot of other people are control freaks and they don't like that. They're going to have to get over it. Yeah. We're like engineering. But the age of fun engineering is gone. My friend texted me the other day. He was like, Hey, like, he doesn't have any coding experience. And he was like, I wanted an app for like getting ingredients for recipes and like automatically sending them to my like store, like buying them automatically so we can do a pickup order or whatever, like with all [00:27:37] with one click, he was like, Yeah, I told, I guess he used like chat GPT or something. I'm not sure what he used, but he was like, uh, build me this. And he's like, within 45 minutes, it completely all worked. And it was like, it gave you, you know, a database and authentication and like all this shit that like someone who doesn't know coding would definitely not have spun up. And he's like, yeah, I think, uh, I think we're all cooked here. Yeah. I think so too. Yeah. Uh, I remember that slapping me in my face like a few months ago. And I was like, there's a native app called crap. And it maybe it's called anything. Anyway, I was like, Hey, I need a banjo tuner. It's specific for double C. I don't know if you know what that is. And it goes, Oh, yeah, double C is these resonating frequencies. And I'll just spin you up [00:28:25] a couple minutes later. It had a native app written. And I was like, all right, well, app stores are cooked, uh, writing apps is cooked. Uh, I just need to know what I want. And it just poof appears. And I can even read them. It's like, we've been focusing on, I need a dark theme and a light theme. And, uh, and all these things. And I'm like, who cares? And the future people just be like, no, modify it. Like, uh, so malleable software is here. It's here. And that's why there's so many of these agents that Tom and Godchee's are here to build you your apps. The thing is, it's just the general market of people. They're not ready. They don't know what this is. You know, like, it's, it's so, um, mysterious to them where they're used to shopping, pulling things off the shelf. There is no fucking shelf with what we have now. There's, there's your imagination. A lot of people suck at imagination. So did you see the tweet where a guy was basically like, he's calling it now [00:29:16] within the next 12 months. Uh, Apple music and Spotify will be dead because music in general will be dead because you can get exactly whatever song you want. Just auto generated for you on the fly. And there's no need for artists. And everyone's like, oh my god, no music is such a social thing that you can share with everyone. He's like, yeah, I agree. Like these hyper focused things will be even cooler to share with everyone else because you can just made just for me and like, and oh, I kind of buy into it. I hate that that's going to possibly be a thing. But it's the same as like giving up coding. I fucking loved coding. Like it's everything I love can just go away. Everything I loved is dead. Yeah. Um, oh, God, that's, uh, that's a, a pill. I'm going to have to figure out how to swallow because I hate it. Um, but there's a, there's an element to it that I, [00:30:03] it's not going to be for me. I'm wearing an on Jean de Poir Trin shirt, by the way, everybody. Uh, on Jean de Poir Trin. Oh, yeah. Thanks for the one you were talking about them today. Yeah. You either talked about it on the episode or told me about it after and like showed me their video or something. Okay. Cool. They, they are math rock. Um, nothing is really ever in four four time. And so, uh, but honestly, you, you could ask for songs to regenerate it that sound very much like it. It wouldn't be the same because it's humans being robots. It's the same thing. Lichtenstein was cool for us. He, his paintings. He was a printer and you're like, whoa, the amount of work takes for the human to be a printer. Uh, it's like it impresses me that way. But if you look at mainstream music, you look at anything happening mainstream for my kids that are [00:30:49] eight and 10, like all they want to do is beyond whatever the trend train is. And if a trend train is someone made a song with, uh, with AI and that's just resonating with every school fourth grader across the nation, well, then they're definitely going to listen to it. They don't care. They don't care. That, that, that agent that point, they don't care. It's only us like old people that are going to be like, I remember when people hit a string with a little piece of plastic, you know? Yeah. It'll be similar to like now getting a carpenter to come to your house and like hand do all of the woodwork. Like no one does that. But rich people do. So like, I think the same thing will be true with like, oh, like the ultra wealthy are going to, they're going to go see a guy play a guitar. It's insane. Do you actually that? That future, you just painted sounds kind of cool. [00:31:41] Yeah. I've known multiple people, multiple people got decks built and people don't even build decks anymore. They go by like all this. It's actually got a deck built recently. Did you really? Oh, man, there's all this composite wood and they're like, don't go, don't get real wood. They're like, you can, it's extra expensive, but it also rots. You can get this stuff over here. It's not plastic. It's somewhere in between. It lasts a long time. And I can just get a kit. I'll just kind of set up this is actually a hill that I will die on. Everything in the world should not be made of plastic. Except for your deck should be because it's the one thing I don't want to disintegrate. Right? Like I want it to last forever. Whereas everything else it feels cheap, right? And they're like micro plastics and all that bullshit. But like, yeah, no, I want my deck to be plastic. [00:32:28] Unfortunately, ours is not. I got it just wood because it was already where we added on to it. And so I had to just make it all wood. So I can't afford to make it all plastic right now. But one day, oh, man, my front deck is so tiny. People probably seen me play banjo on it, but I'd love to extend it one day. It's very small. Oh, speaking of like hitting strings with tiny pieces of plastic, I went came to some here's some what not everybody. We're gonna switch from AF for a second. I saw the video. You saw the video. It's nice. I went camping with Chris Koyer and we just played music all night. And it was super awesome. I want to watch Adam doing a little slap is slappy on a woodblock thing. Yeah, I was like, I was really proud of myself. I had like a little tambourine in my foot, keeping like the snare beat while I was kind of like doing. I heard tambourine, but I didn't [00:33:16] see it. And I was like, where's that coming from? It's on my toe, man. And I was like, I always, I don't have very many people to jam with. So I jammed by myself ish and the foot, the ability to have your foot do a thing while your hands and your brain are all doing something else. It's really hard. I was really proud that day when I was like, I showed up and I was on point. My toes were, my toes were all on it. Oh, nice. They say that's really good for your brain. Like the same with playing a full drum kit because you have to use all of your limbs in like different ways. It like gives you new new neural pathways and shit. So just playing music is new neural pathways because you really honestly, that's like a video again. You have to overcome a lot of imposter syndrome because you sit down and you're like, my hands are [00:34:03] too dumb to do that thing. And then you're like, okay, I guess I'll work really slowly at it and like, hey, I'm really dumb. I'm really dumb. And they're like, I did it a couple of times. And then eventually you're doing it while you're talking to somebody and you're like, whoa, bodies are cool. And yeah, although I can still play some piano songs that I'm like, I haven't played piano forever. And I'm like, I don't know my hands at memories, y'all. My brain for this name is like five years. And I like cannot even do a simple, like, you know, do a chord with one hand and like a melody with the other. Oh, no, I can't do it. No, I'm just like, I can guitar because I'm just like, but yeah, it'd probably be good for me to do some of that stuff again. We'll have a lot [00:34:52] of time when we're all unemployed and living in the woods, I guess. Right? Oh, did we talk about it last time that the the future people painted were like, okay, so imagine LLM's just take all the digital jobs. And there's all these people with all the sector time. And they start to focus on their body. They're like, I want to become buff and workout. And so did you see that where they all on a bike. And they're basically powering the AI plants and everyone's super ripped. But all the rich people are super fat. I was like, this is a really hilarious portrayal of a potential future. Yeah, I liked that. Yeah. I mean, who knows? I think there's like, unless you topple capitalism across the world, I don't see anything where we're just all, you know, we don't have to work. And it's a utopia. Nope. You're just going to fuck like most of the population, I think [00:35:44] yeah, I think that's whenever I chat about with friends, they're like, no, most people are just too lazy. And they're just going to sit around and they're not going to do shit, man. I'm like, you sure they're not going to draw? They're not going to pick up an instrument. And he's like, no, now they're probably going to get wasted on whatever it is they want to get wasted on. And not do shit, man. And I'm like, really? But I'm like, you're like the person I'm talking to is like, I'm like, you're an active like hardworking person. And he's like, yeah. But I know that most my friends are not. And they're they're just like hard. Yes. Most of the world is world is not all right. What else we got on our things here? We got okay. So game devs feel in the heat or tools still churning to win agentic work. Meta harnesses and the nut isn't cracked. We're still not at the we haven't we haven't found it yet. Everyone's still struggling to figure out with this [00:36:35] agentic environment is going to be what you want to talk about game dev or agentic tooling. Let's skip the agentic tooling. I feel like we've talked about that enough. Cool. Okay. So we're talking about game devs feeling the heat. I've got multiple friends. Some of them are rigors where do you know what a rig is in a 3D model? I do not. A rig is when so a 3D model is made of all these shapes. A rig is you kind of connect these bones up through the model that you can move the bones and it brings the models 3D shape with it. So once a model has been rigged, it can be talked to walk and then there's an animator. So an [00:37:21] animator does the whole separate task of animating the rig. Once the rig is done, there's even face rigs where like eyebrows and noses and mouths all get rigged with these little internal bones that allow you to move them and perform these things. And you also have people that just paint models and paint the textures and come up with all. Anyway, there's all these people that do all these tasks in game dev including the developers. And now with Astra, people making games in an evening and I've even made a couple and they're amazing games. They're really easy. It's incredible. And I'm looking at this going, I thought web dev was like we're really going to get hard on my game devs are really feeling it now. So have you tried it? I think literally every career that is white collar work is toast. [00:38:12] It may not be targeted explicitly yet, but it won't take long. One of my friends is a mechanical engineer who has to do like a ton of, I guess not mechanical structure. It's the one I'm looking for. He's like, you know, deciding is this bridge going to stay up kind of stuff, right? That stuff is very formulaic. You can easily give that to a LLM. Accounting done. Yeah, everything like it's a it's a bleak world. And I think somebody needs to plan soon or we're going to all have a hard time. Yeah, I don't know what the plan is. I know that there's been like shorter work weeks proposed and universal basic income, but I don't necessarily think those are the right choice. [00:39:01] I like that you brought up the structural engineer. I keep thinking that any job that touches files is under threat because that's what LLM's do. It's like or equations, files and equations unlike your toast because it's just it's just a machine. It's just a machine that now knows how to make all these things. And it's all of our communal knowledge across all of these disciplines. Just ready to go. But yeah, the future I can't I don't I don't know what it is. I'm just trying to create with it in its current form because it is it's still a tool. Even though we've had episodes where I'm like, it's ruling me, you know, like a wake up and I'm like, quick, give it me work. LLM, I'm supposed to give you work. You turn nugget. I'm like, oh crap, wait, you're blocked by me. It's given you work right now. You're feeling that he's from my podcast. [00:39:46] Well, no, I work too. That's why I haven't gotten around to that stuff is like it makes it so easy for people to just go, here's a 50 file slot PR. And then so I'm trying to also create. Yeah, I'm trying to also like automate myself. So I've put in some skills to review it the same way that I would and stuff, which is super effective because it'll just be like, oh, yeah, this other PR did all the same stuff. This one's dumb, close it. Like here's like, you know, all it's pretty good at all of that. And then once you hit where it's like, oh, we do need this PR, then you can like go look at the files a little bit. So it's helping with that. But I've been like, I'll review 10 and I get like 15 more open and I'm like, sweet. It just never ends. And I guess at some point, you know, this is the, I think it's going to be a while before we [00:40:41] all give up control of what the code looks like. And it's not that I'm going to look at the code. It's just that I know what's the correct way to do it, what's more performant, what's, you know, et cetera, et cetera. And so I care about little things. But like, should we care? If it's not like bad enough performance or like not accessible or you know, something that would be bad. And it's just like, oh, it's not ideal. Do we care? Like I feel like we're pretty soon not going to care. But I could see like, you know, tech companies caring for the next three to five years still, even though you shouldn't need to be caring. I think it'll take a while for everyone to let go of caring. I don't know. What do you think? Yeah. I do the same thing. There's a lot of things [00:41:30] I care about when I'm reviewing a PR. There's a lot of red flags that I just have accrued at skills that I have and smells things smell code smell. Yeah, right? It's almost like you're in a code smell. However, the thing that I'm doing and I know I've talked about it in an episodes before is that anything that I do once I try not to do it again and try to give it to an agent to do and code smell is one of those things where I teach my agents what I'm looking for. And that's part of what I lintered. Linters and type checkers are kind of doing code smell. In fact, I'd even argue that's what a linter is supposed to be doing right now. It's just removing the human code smell radar from being on your plate and giving it to a machine because they're known things that suck. [00:42:18] So don't do these like, but the thing is is we're adding more and more to them every day. Shopify. We just added to our linter no use of the CSS has selector. Here you go, everybody. You'll see us in this episode. Yeah, no has has is wildly slow and destructive in our application. And JavaScript can be like, huh? But it's so cool. It is cool. It's a super cool feature. And it's really sad to not use it. However, it's like, measurably impacting our site in so much that we've banned it. And now I submitted multiple PRs today that rip it out and replace it with JavaScript. And that's just that's it. And so yeah, and then we've got a linter that goes in there. Now there's no code. LLMs love to do set timeout. And now we've [00:43:08] got a linter that says no set timeout use transition end as much as you can. Oh my god. Actually, there's a bug that showed up today with transition. And can I side rant us for a second? Oh my goodness. Okay. So agents are using websites now and a lot. And they'll use them in the background, meaning the tab will be inactive. However, an agent is still interacting with it. Browser's two things to inactive tabs. One of which is they don't run animations because why would they? There no one there's no one there to see it. You know, so they don't quite pause them, but they don't run them, which means that if an agent has clicked a button that invokes a modal for, for example, that transitions in. [00:44:00] I can never test that. You can never tell. And the agent never sees it because it never shows up. It clicked the button, but the transition didn't run because the browser did. So guess what, we're doing a Shopify right now because we added a ton of motion to the new redo, which we announced this week, the new. Anyway, it's what I've been working on for like months. Whole new admin looks beautiful. I think it looks beautiful. Anyway, however we added I added a share load of motion. And the motion is fucking with all of the agents because they don't run. And so all of a sudden people like, Hey, my agent can't interact with the site anymore. And we're like, what? What do you mean? You're like, well, it's in the, I have it as a background tab. We're like a background tab. So basically what I'm about to rant about here is it's like [00:44:44] not only are agents using your application, they're using them in the back. I have to create affordances of our website. When it's in the background, just so that agents can still get their agenda that dev or whatever it was, or it tells you, oh my goodness, dude. Oh my goodness. So yeah, exactly. Like you've got these little linters that go through and link your site to make. Hey, every CSS, this is the PSA everybody right now. If you have animations or transitions in your application, agents running those in the background, they won't run and they will get stuck because the transition end events don't fire. The transitions don't fight. Things are opacity zero if they're animating from that exit stage state. And so I have to go create this elaborate solution. It's so annoying. You're at a similar point where we used to have like a completely [00:45:34] separate website for mobile. You know, I'm like, well, you're basically doing that for agents now because they don't need half the shit. So if you're like, if you're trying to make it like, you know, have an MCP or let an agent control your site, then it actually behooves you to have the super sick animations and shit on the public facing side. And then I'm a completely separate. Oh, you're an LLM. Here's your page. Like it works totally different. Like, which kind of sucks. It's just vanilla form. Yeah. No, seriously. Um, it sucks to make a separate thing. But I think it's so that's what DHH in part of his talk was saying is like, he's like, look, I don't want your website. I want your CLI. He's like, until you have a CLI, yeah, my agent can't use your surface. So he's like, stop, stop building these other things and start building this. I do love what CLI. Yeah, CLIs are nice. [00:46:26] Yeah. And that's what Jeff was pitching the same thing. Jeff was all about agent to agent. Um, business making smart decisions between APIs, um, not just MCP, which was like, here's what I have. It's notes like, here's what I need to do. Which thing do I call to get that task done and chaining that shit together? And that's what Jeff is good at. Yeah, just installed the, uh, Atlassian CLI today so that I can go, hey, pull all the Jira bugs and like, tell me if somebody fixed them already. And it's like, oh, these seven are done. I'm like sick. Nice. Like the CLIs are so clutched. The GitHub CLI is, if you don't have that, I don't know how you're even working in this day and age because that's how I do everything. [00:47:13] Also, when GitHub is down, because it always is like, you can still use the CLI half the time, which is kind of cool. Oh, did not know. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's a great versus I guess. I installed the Shopify CLI into podcasts, uh, just a couple days ago. Although I have a lot of computer use being done also, sometimes the website offers more than the CLI, but I bet you that tide will turn at which point the CLI or API will be superior to the, oh, even just be the CLI. And you just, uh, it just runs CLI commands, just run CLI commands. Yep. For the t-shirt business, uh, which, oh, hey, by the way, a little bit of what, [00:47:58] not everybody. I have officially named the new t-shirt business that I've been working on. I don't think I've announced it because it's, I don't think we've, anyway, it's called Oswary. Who talked about this at all? Uh, I knew that. I don't know if we talked about it on the last episode or if you just told me, but I didn't know that. Well, anyway, it's a, just means it's a collection of bones that usually human remains, but it's any, any bones. So it's like a catacombs or an Oswary, uh, and the site will be, uh, black garments with white bones on them, flee skulls. Um, like, yeah, we didn't go with skulls on shirts.com or the SEO. No. That is, that is skull.style will be one of the, uh, URLs, but also about Oswary.store. If you have multiple domains that redirect to each other, do you get any SEO benefit from the ones that aren't the, [00:48:48] like canonical one? I don't know. It's a good question. I feel like skull.style is the memorable one. Oswary.store feels like you went to the, I can't spell that. Yeah. I met someone that knew what an Oswary was the other day in Kansas City, but she also works at a mortuary. She's like, I want a mortuary. And I was like, do you know what an Oswary is? And she goes, yeah. And I was like, that's awesome because you're the first person. Everybody else goes, I don't know what that word means. Yeah. Hey, but that's why I could trade market or something. But I'm excited. I've been buying all these shirts and trying them on and like checking the different thicknesses of the cotton and doing. Oh, here's a good question. Robbie, what kind of cotton shirts do you love? Do you have a brand that you just always buy? Okay. You've just opened a, uh, every in-depth box here. Okay. Do you lay it on me? I'm ready. Um, I've printed a lot of [00:49:40] shirts. Um, I used to use American apparel, which is not good anymore. Then I switched to Gildan. Gildan, Gildan. Yeah. I don't know how you say it. Um, and then most recently I use AS color. It's a color with a U. So I assume it's like a UK brand or something. They have like very nice, um, their shirts are a little longer. I have a long torso. So I, I like that. And they don't become belly shirts when I wash them. And, um, they have all different weights. So you can have like your normal, like the one I'm wearing now is not an AS color shirt. But it's like, you know, your typical, people went in really hard on like the combed cotton thin, comfy shirt. And we've we've pivoted back to the heavyweight shirt now. But you can go to heavyweight. Like I don't want [00:50:31] to feel the heavyweight. I just want it to be thick. Which is the American apparel now. Imperial sometimes it's a little too. Yeah, you're like, Oh, I'm raw. It was just too heavy. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, I think it's specifically, there's two AS color shirts that are like their staple tee or something. I'm one of them is right now. Yeah. Okay. The staple one I believe is like a 700 gram. And then there's like a 900 gram or whatever, whatever it is, ounces grams, whatever they measure shirts in. Yeah. There's a 700 and a 900, both of which are good. Anything was lower is too, too thin for me. So yeah, everyone that was wondering about that. No, seriously, like so many people have an opinion. And apparently, there's like a, [00:51:15] I'm attributing it to Instagram. Now, none of my friends would tell you that because they probably don't want to tell you that they shop on Instagram. Some people don't care to tell you. Anyway, it's the, um, I agree. I'm gonna, it's cotton color. Oh, no. How am I forgetting it? It's hold on. I've got it right here. It's the, the comfort colors, comfort colors. Hey, you know what it was. Okay. So yeah, all colors, multiple people are like comfort colors. That's all I wear. Yeah. Comfort colors was cool for some reason. It is not comfortable as the name would imply. Um, it, it's too heavyweight to rigid to like 90s West Coast choppers shirt. Um, it's like that feel that's not comfy. Like I, I want it to be pretty heavyweight and thick, but still like a nice combed texture. You know what I mean? Yes. Yes. There are some that are too heavy. [00:52:07] Like a lot of the street wear ones that I keep trying and buying and trying on. Like here's the thing I'm doing everybody. I'm buying the shirts with my art on them. So I'm testing both their ability to print my art and what my art looks like on the shirt, the tags, the, the hem labels, all sorts of like little details. And then I wash it and I wear it and I wash it and I wear it. And I'm not going to choose the one that my brain picks until I've established which of these is consistent amongst my friends, amongst myself. And I really find the one that I'm trying to ask color. If you have it, it's good. They also have, um, easily tear outable tags, which is nice. I won't, but then you can't tell what I'll be printing. Oh, hey, look, AS color street crop T was the women's crop that I chose. Oh, nice. Oh, and the AS color maple tea. And you know what, [00:52:58] these are expensive base teas. Hey, everybody, you're going to go to my site and you're going to be like, why is my shirt? Why is his shirt so expensive? I'm not selling you $10 fucking garbage. That's why. Yeah. I'm doing legit prints. These aren't the prints that you're going to look at and they're going to look like they peel away right away. They're awesome prints. Um, there's no base. They're like replacing the die sort of thing, whatever. It's doing the PTF. So it's not doing the one where, does color replacement so that it's soft. I'm doing the one where there is a thing on the shirt. It's that it's more vibrant, but I do prefer the vintage-y faded soft, um, to the, on the top. So to appease the Robbie in this conversation, I would say you would probably prefer this series [00:53:48] that I have where the graphics are on the back. That way the front is unfettered. There's no graphic. It's soft. You just, you just get this little label on the thing that has like a skull down by your, your waistline. And then on the back is some art and it can be smaller large. You can pick the thing that you want. That way the graphics are sticking to you. We're being most interested in because I'm not a big skull guy is the black on black. So it's subtle. I have that. It's called the murder out series and the murdered out series will still have the plastic key. It's not plaster, but anyway, you know what I mean? There's, there's like literally something resting on top. Yeah. It's sitting on top. But since it's also black, it'll only catch light. And so you'll do, there's a lot of skulls. So I, you're, you're throwing it out there. [00:54:33] Like you wouldn't wear a skull. I'm like, there's, there's bone skulls. You could get a, no, no, I don't dislike skulls. I'm just like, that's not really my personality. So I can't like, yeah, I would feel a little bit like a poser wearing it. But like if it's subtle, I feel like I would like it. You know what I mean? Yeah. There's a lot of, there's a lot of little ones too. It looks like AS color heavy tea 5080 is in my 43 dollars for the base tea. I might be the most expensive one. Okay. It's too expensive. The ones I'm talking about are like between 10 and 20 bucks a shirt or something. So I buy them and just wear them without anything printed on them. And I just have a, yeah, people are doing it with the comfort colors too. So a lot of people are wearing solids. And that's why I'm like, hoping that my shirts are cool because they're going to be solid on the front, just a little skull at the bottom. Yeah. I just kind of make a chill. [00:55:23] I think the, the solid color with some subtle art is, is in like solid, solid stuff is very European, I guess, like they don't like a ton of logos and whatever. So it's like, yeah. But if you can, if you can get that look where it's like, I'm all one color, but I have like a little thing, then it's like, oh, I showed my individuality in like a, a little flare. I'm still a little gothic, you know, like I'm wearing all black. And I'm not, I'm not a bad guy. I'm still like demonic stuff. I want you to tell me about the switch too. And you got Zelda? Oh, okay. Yeah. So I think we talked about this last time, but Akari no time remake is coming out. They also are doing 40th anniversary bunch of stuff for Zelda. One of which is a Zelda themed [00:56:12] switch. And then there's also a Zelda themed switch controller switch too. Sorry. And I was like, oh cool. Whenever they announce this will be pre-orderable, I'll get one. And then next thing I heard, oh, this already happened. You didn't get one. And so I was like, sweet. And so then I got this app called Track a Lacker, which lets you know every time it's available for sale anywhere. So like, probably every hour or two, it's like, go to Best Buy and you're like, and you're like, nope, didn't get it. And then like, dang, oh, she like, yeah, the bots are so quick. And like, I'm not going to make a bot because it's like against all the terms of service. And I [00:56:58] feel like I would get in trouble and whatever. But that's how they go away so fast. So Amazon too, it'd be like, by the time I could hit like add to cart, it would add it to the cart. And then by the time I could hit like proceed to check out, it'd be like, there's none left. And that was like instantaneously doing it. So it's just like, you know, you know, that it happened five seconds before I did it. Someone else bought it. Anyway, yeah, I'm at the, I've another tangent we can go down. So I've been going to a sleep doctor trying to figure out why I'm sleepy all the time. Oh, yeah, I'm filling out paperwork. And I get a notification from the Nintendo app that's like in sock, like not the Track a Lacker one like Nintendo themselves is like, we've got some. I was like, fuck, yeah. So I'm like, go. And it's like, you don't have any service. It's like, [00:57:43] fuck, get on the Wi-Fi. Like I'm on there Wi-Fi. And I'm like, go, go, go. And it's like the little button has just like three stars that are just like loading. And I'm like, come on load load it loads. And I'm like, boom. And I'm like, not even verifying any info like, bye, bye, bye, bye. And then it's like, what's your CVC on your credit card? I'm like, God damn it. Like, get that out of it. I put it in and I got one. So I was like, very pleased that I got one because I've been like trying to buy one every hour for like a couple of weeks now. Yeah. And I don't have to worry about that anymore. Nice. Oh, man, I have punk ass watching for banjos and band shows. I didn't realize that that would be so hard to say. Banjos and band shows, is that what he said? Yeah. So it's like, who's in town? Here's bands we like. And we want to go to their shows. And I don't want to [00:58:30] sign up for some shitty service. So I got punk ass watching. And then banjos watching offer up and all the crappy sites that I don't want to crawl. And it gives me a daily digest with a very narrow set of criteria that I'm looking for. I'm thoroughly enjoying having an assistant that just like daily scrubs or whatever. But I understand where you're coming from to where you're like, I don't want to buy. I want to like legit buy. So cool. Well, it's, I was asking, I forget if it was chat GPT or cloud, but I was asking one of them about like, should we make a bot? Like, it seems like I can't compete with the bots. And it was like, oh, actually, if you do that on Amazon, and they catch you, it's against their terms of service and like your Amazon account can be [00:59:15] terminated or whatever. And I was like, I don't want that. Like, not worth it to like make a fake one and set up a fake credit card to like, do all the shit. Like, I'm not going to do all that. So I'm like, I'll probably get one eventually. And what I'm hoping happens is that everyone that's bought like 50 of these with their bots. Like, I hope on release day, they go, hey, it's actually not a limited edition. It's just a special edition. Here's as many as we want to sell. And then everyone gets fucked and like stuck with 50 of them. That would be the greatest. I don't know if that's how it's going to happen. But that's what I want to happen. Let's, these are positive thoughts, Robbie. How do we sabotage people abusing agents? Well, it's like, you're hacking. I was so frustrated trying to get one. I was like, you [01:00:04] know what I'm going to do? I'm going to just start buying everyone that's for sale on Ebay. Get them all shipped to our house. I will go bankrupt just so I can buy them all so that when they get shipped to me, I will get the return address to these people's home address and go fucking murder them all because I was so pissed off. Send them a bag of dicks. That was a early whiskey way, but what not y'all? Yes, a bag of dicks. No, that would cost me more money. Yeah. No, I'm, man, I was just like, now I'm like, this stuff, this sort of shit, stop letting people do this. Like buying things that are limited edition, people that are fans of the things you get to buy it, going to concerts, fans of the fans are good to go. Like all of this bullshit where they just gets balled up and they go, oh, yeah, you can have it, but it's $200 [01:00:51] more. I'm like, I hate you. Yeah, and did you ever get into? Probably not. So I'm just going to share this is early 2000s. Dunnies and mostly Dunnies and money. So just designer vinyl toys. Did you ever catch on to this trend? No, it's not beanie babies. These are like really artistic, really high quality, really well-made toys. Here, Dunnie. Oh, here's a Dunnie. I have a bunch. Here, here's a Dunnie. Everybody, you've probably seen something like this. This is from the tattoo series, Dunnie set. It's all covered in spider webs. I've had it for probably 15 maybe. Oh, 20 years. It's similar to like a Funko pop. It looks like [01:01:39] except with. Yeah. So Funko pop was like a pop version. Then they weren't artistic. They were money grabbing, trying to do very mainstream type of things. But the Dunnies were all chill cool artists. And that tattoo series was really cool. It was all tattoo artists. It all made a Dunnie. And you would show up to a drop. There would be a drop in two cities in the entire world to drop them. LA, New York. And I would go wait in line with my buddy to go spend a couple hundred bucks on these Dunnie boxes. And you would get a big Dunnie. And then all the rest of them were mysteries. You'd buy these mystery boxes. Open them up. You knew the rarity. And if you hit gold, you hit gold. Man, you spend 20 bucks on a Dunnie. You'd sell it for 500 whatever pretty much whatever you wanted because there were psychos somewhere across in the world. They were like I need [01:02:25] ever to go one. And I know that that's the most rare one. And I'm just going to buy it for whatever the person asked for. And so my buddy would constantly make extra cash every couple of months buying and selling these designer vinyl toys. And I got sucked into it for a little while. But I was like a lazy seller. So I would just end up like I have a whole bunch still. And I'd be like oh, sweet. I bought these to sell them. And yeah, I guess I still have them. So I didn't capitalize. Well, if you like them, it doesn't matter. I'm they're cool here for Pokemon being cool again though. Because like it's cool again. Yeah. Like people are, you know, they're a card drop will happen at Walmart. And everyone's trying to figure out like when the trucks are going [01:03:09] to come bring it to the store kind of stuff. Like feels weird. But like I'm hoping that holds until Finn understands what they are. Like once he's in like public school, I guess though that would probably be a thing of like all the collectible shit. Definitely because like I love that. Like I loved trying to go and find when the cards were going to drop. Like go to the comic book store and they got like all kinds of shit with like all the cards, all the like memorabilia and stuff. Like I guess those sort of stores maybe don't exist as much anymore. But like that was really fun. I'm hoping we can do some of that. We'll see. Well, my kids do it. We go to garage sales and look for people selling cards that don't know what's [01:03:54] in them. There was a point at time where which we thought my kid had found a card that was hell rare. We looked it up on an app. And it was like this card is worth $1,500. And we were like don't touch it anymore. Put it in plastic. Whatever like we did it. Y'all we found the one. And then he was like making plans. He was like I'm going to sell it. I'm going to buy this. And I'm going to buy that. He was like grand his mind was just racing with the possibilities. But the thing was it's like ours wasn't in plastic. It wasn't pristine. So it's like all these little details started to knock it down. But still like we have a decent amount of cards here. I could send you something like if y'all get into it, we like our cards. But my I have a ton of [01:04:41] the original cards. My younger. Oh, you do. Do you look at the old ones? I kept them all. Tell you. No, none of mine are worth a lot because I looked them up when I think like a first edition. Charizard was worth like $350,000. And I went, okay, I need to look at what I've got. No, I don't have anything worth anything. But I have a lot that I think are cool. Like I have a lot of Pikachu's that are like not just the standard one and they all do different moves and shit because I really like Pikachu. Yeah, Pikachu's I had a whole deck with like 25 Pikachu's in there. Yeah, we play. We have the card game. We have a map. It's a fun game. Yeah, I like that. I like to play more magic. I actually have like, I don't know, at least 20 packs of like Lord of the Rings magic cards and this behind me that I haven't opened because I got into it [01:05:34] for like a weekend and then went. Yeah. So I could have like really rare ones in there. I don't know. I don't have the one ring that was found. So damn. All right. You've got all, I've got Halloween costumes and you've got Bachelor party in here. What do you want to tell him or should we just call it? We'll just rapid fire it. Yeah, I went to my best friend is getting married for the second time. So I went to his Bachelor party. What weekend to go last weekend. Yeah, it was fun. Just went to the lake and there's a casino in the middle of nowhere, Virginia that we went to. Which is a. It's a Caesar's palace. Awesome. It's a good one. It's a Caesar's palace, huh? Yeah. [01:06:24] Yeah. No, it was it was a nice building, but every casino has like the saddest people in it. Like, you know, I'm here all day long, like just feeding this slot machine. I can't even pull the lever anymore. Just do their one button video games. It's so stupid. I'm like, I'm like, my kids go there and they're like, what's everyone doing? I'm like, well, basically they're playing video games, but they wouldn't say they are. And they're like, what do you mean? I'm like, well, because the video game is one button. And they're like, what do you mean? I'm like, watch everyone. All they do is slap a button. Yeah. It's pretty sad. But I go to the table games. We played some Blackjack and stuff. It was pretty fun. Nice. Yeah, those are more fun. A little bit of skill involved in that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Fall. What's important about fall? Oh, I meant to mention it at the top of the show. [01:07:16] My Virginia Tech Hokies hat. We are 4 and 0 last week, two or the last episode. I got a new hat. And we are 4 and 0 for the first time in like a billion years, because we suck. So I'm pleased with that. And we're probably not before and 0 tomorrow, because we're going to play Pittsburgh. And they're also 4 and 0. So one of us has to lose. And it's probably going to be us. This is a good game. Nice. Yeah. So this is college football. Yeah. Yeah. College. I don't keep up with professional because I feel like, I mean, now college is basically professional football players. But it's like, it used to be that college players had a lot more to prove, because they were trying to go pro. They weren't making money yet. So they would play real hard. [01:08:03] And like, it was fun to watch. Then once you went pro, you were just trying not to get hurt. So you were like slow and like, just collecting your checks. But now that you're paid in the opposite of just like, yeah, now it's just like, who knows? Like, still fun to watch, still prefer college, just because I feel like I know a little bit more about it. Yeah. I don't know. Halloween costumes. Yeah. Our kids want to dress up. Well, one of them wants to be adventure time. So my wife's going to be Marceline. Nice. I'm going to be Ice King. And then my youngest is Finn. And his outfit is he's a red headed kid. And he's got a tooth missing right now. And it's like, perfect. So yeah, I'm going to get ice came when I have this like, I'm going to have like a blue mumu, you know, a really big white beard. And I'm not going to paint [01:08:54] my face blue. I think that I think that it's going to be a bad idea. I'm going to 3D print a really long. You could just be Simon. Like before I could be Simon, but no one would notice, you know, like, if I got a big blue mumu, everyone's going to know what the big one you can have a, you can have a little penguin with you that goes, why? Gunther. Come on. Gunther. That's funny. No. And then I'm going to 3D print my hat. So I got a couple 3D print opportunities going on in there. And then my wife's going to look badass as Marceline. I could have, anyway, what's the guy version of Marceline? Do you remember Marshall Lee? Oh, shit. And he's cool. Yeah. So yeah, we're going to be adventure time thing. And my other kid is trying to be so he's waffling. But he's currently, he currently wants to be a [01:09:42] character from a video game called Brawlhalla. I don't know, expect you to know it. It's like indie game kind of like Smash Bros. What are y'all going to be? What's he thinking? Well, so I made the mistake of letting Finn get a Spider-Man costume at Costco. And so that's, we're just all going to be majoring. That's embarrassing Robbie. Don't be merging. No, no. So it's, it's not even that it's like the new like spider, spider in his amazing friends. Have you watched this at all? Oh, uh, I've seen some of the little kids Spider-Man. So it's like, he didn't get bit by a spider anymore. He like uses technology to build like web shooters and like crawl walls and stuff. So I think they were thinking kids will think it sounds worse to get bit by a spider. [01:10:29] Then they'll be like, Hey, Black Widow, like bite me, please. So I can be Spider-Man. And then they die. And they didn't want that. So like, we've got 20 years saying that people don't do that. Okay, whatever. But anyway, so, so there's a Spidey ghost spider and Finn. There's like three Spider-Man variants. And so I'm guessing I will be one of those and Caitlin might be one of those. And then maybe the twins will be like villains like green goblin and like, I don't know, something else. We'll see. But like, yeah, we were going to do something to be. We were going to do something cute. And then Finn is dead. So I'm like, nope, I'm going to be Spider-Man every day of my life. And we're like, all right, cool. So we're going to do that, I guess. Dude, let's talk about that for a sec. My youngest brother, who's 11 years younger than me, 12 years younger than me. So like drastically [01:11:15] different age wore a Spider-Man one Z basically, or maybe a year and a half or two years straight. And it was just it was an everyday thing everywhere we went. He was in a Spider-Man costume. Yeah. And sometimes it was cute. Sometimes it was embarrassing. Most of the time it was cute. And he would always do this at you. He's shooting. He was with webs. And it was like a tick tock where it's like when you have three boys and you're just trying to go to the grocery store and it's like a guy driving a van and it pans to the back and he has three boys all in Spider-Man. So he's like, I've got a buddy who just had a third kid and has twins and I'm like, that sounds [01:12:01] awesome. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, that's probably what we're going to do. But I have a I think I've told you about this one before, but we might go to our friend's Halloween party and I'll have a different costume for that, which I'm proud of and I've waited years to do. So I'm going to be a tortilla chip with a monk robe on so I can be a chip monk. Dang, I love it. That's a great dad joke. That's clutch. Yes. I kind of I'm a little jealous. I want to copy that, but I'm like, I can't now. You can. We're on different coasts. It's okay. It's really good. Oh, chip monk. Oh, man, there's like a specific party that I'm like, that's a really good costume for it. It's good. It's good stuff, dude. You nailed it., OpenAI Nerfed Your Tokens, Robby the Wagner and Adam Thomas (names as the Whisper transcript renders them; likely Robbie Wagner..., 01m3ydqfkqgj9rewyvbf7s2yms.