Panel Discussion: Open Source Enabling Industrial Innovation  ## Metadata - Author: [[YouTube]] - Full Title: Panel Discussion: Open Source Enabling Industrial Innovation - Category: #articles - Document Note: --- tags: [open-source, industrial-innovation, panel-discussion] author: [MISSING] source: YouTube reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNXd_PmQU7s date created: 2024-12-28 16:20 --- # 🏷️ Title: Panel Discussion: Open Source Enabling Industrial Innovation ## 🧰 Action Inbox - [H1] Start explaining open source to younger generations for cultural change — 45:15 #education - [H2] Remember that businesses choose open source for profitability — 47:30 #strategy - [H3] Join Linux Foundation if making money from open source — 49:45 #funding ## 🧭 Table of Contents - [📝 Summary](#-summary) - [📖 Main Content](#-main-content) - [🗒️ Notes](#️-notes) - [📚 References](#-references) - [🗣️ Paraphrase](#️-paraphrase) - [📰 Newsletter](#-newsletter) - [✅ Action Items](#-action-items) - [🧪 Hypotheses](#-hypotheses) - [📊 Methodology](#-methodology) - [❓ Questions](#-questions) - [🔮 Future Research](#-future-research) - [💡 Implications](#-implications) - [🧠 Learning Styles Assessment](#-learning-styles-assessment) - [📊 Accessibility Assessment](#-accessibility-assessment) - [🌍 DEIB Assessment](#-deib-assessment) - [✅ Logical Validity](#-logical-validity) - [🛡️ DARVO Analysis](#-darvo-analysis) - [🎯 Conclusion](#-conclusion) ### 🔗 References - [Panel Discussion Video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNXd_PmQU7s) ## 📝 Summary - Panel discussion on open source adoption across regulated industries (automotive, energy, financial services) - Industry leaders discuss maturity levels, resistance factors, and strategic vs pragmatic approaches to open source - Key themes include breaking vendor lock-in, collaborative ecosystems, and digital sovereignty concerns - Bottom line: Open source is transitioning from tactical tool to strategic platform for differentiation across industries ## 📖 Main Content The panel explores how open source software is enabling industrial innovation across three heavily regulated sectors. Panelists from automotive, energy, and financial services discuss their industries' journeys toward open source maturity, addressing both pragmatic benefits (cost reduction, speed to market) and strategic advantages (breaking vendor lock-in, enabling collaboration). A central tension emerges between using open source defensively (to catch up or respond to threats) versus using it offensively (to lead and differentiate). The discussion covers resistance to open source adoption, the role of digital sovereignty policies, and the importance of cultural change in driving adoption. Technical terms like "BSP provider" (Board Support Package) and "tier one" suppliers are explained in automotive context. The panelists present varying perspectives on whether open source represents primarily a tactical tool or strategic approach, with consensus that business value and profitability remain the primary drivers of adoption. ## 🗒️ Notes #### ⏱️ [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNXd_PmQU7s&t=0) — [H1] Opening Question: Maturity and Change - Key idea: Panelist seeks to understand open source maturity levels across regulated industries - Evidence: "What would you say is the level of maturity in terms of open-source involvement in your sector?" #### ⏱️ [02:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNXd_PmQU7s&t=150) — [H2] Automotive: Breaking Vendor Lock-in - Key idea: Car manufacturers adopted open source to escape supplier dependencies and control software stack - Evidence: "They were so fed up with being all locked in and having tied to suppliers. Pay them for any single line of code change" #### ⏱️ [05:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNXd_PmQU7s&t=345) — [H3] Make vs Buy: Responsibility Shift - Key idea: Open source changes make/buy decisions by shifting maintenance responsibility to users - Evidence: "With open source, I actually have to take significantly more of that responsibility on myself" #### ⏱️ [08:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNXd_PmQU7s&t=500) — [H2] Speed to Market Improvement - Key idea: Open source dramatically reduces product development time in industrial settings - Evidence: "Once we had proprietary software and hardware everything took a year at least... now we can do it in three monthish" #### ⏱️ [10:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNXd_PmQU7s&t=615) — [H3] Energy Sector: Collaborative Pioneers - Key idea: Utilities collaborate through open source despite traditionally working in silos - Evidence: "The particularity is all the utility... they were used to work in silo and bringing open source start them to collaborate in another way" #### ⏱️ [15:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNXd_PmQU7s&t=930) — [H1] Fear vs Leadership Question - Key idea: Moderator questions whether open source adoption is fear-based (catching up) rather than strategic (leading) - Evidence: "How do you think we can switch that into using open source to win to lead?" #### ⏱️ [18:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNXd_PmQU7s&t=1125) — [H2] Platform for Differentiation - Key idea: Open source enables focus on unique value rather than commodity functions - Evidence: "Open source as a platform for differentiation so that you didn't spend your time working on the things that everyone does the same" #### ⏱️ [22:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNXd_PmQU7s&t=1330) — [H3] Digital Sovereignty vs Isolationism - Key idea: True digital sovereignty requires global collaboration, not isolation - Evidence: "Digital sovereignty or digital autonomy is not isolationism... doing open source is not reinventing the wheel" #### ⏱️ [28:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNXd_PmQU7s&t=1715) — [H2] Financial Services: Business-Driven Adoption - Key idea: Banking sector focuses purely on business metrics rather than geopolitical considerations - Evidence: "Business decision are made on investment cost and profits... not regional geopolitical elements" #### ⏱️ [32:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNXd_PmQU7s&t=1940) — [H1] Energy: Strategic and Pragmatic Need - Key idea: Energy sector uses open source strategically due to massive infrastructure investment requirements - Evidence: "Such an amount of money that every utilities alone won't be able to achieve that" #### ⏱️ [38:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNXd_PmQU7s&t=2295) — [H3] Vendor Ecosystem Disruption - Key idea: Open source forces traditional vendors to collaborate instead of compete in isolation - Evidence: "Guy from Siemens from G from ABB and Schneider... they never met and they were the first time that they actually contribute on a project together" #### ⏱️ [42:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNXd_PmQU7s&t=2565) — [H2] Cultural Change Through Education - Key idea: Open source adoption requires cultural transformation starting with youth education - Evidence: "If we teach this to teachers, to school, to kids, then it will become part of the culture" #### ⏱️ [45:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNXd_PmQU7s&t=2715) — [H1] Closing: Remember the Money - Key idea: Business profitability remains the fundamental driver of open source adoption - Evidence: "The fundamental reason that businesses choose to use open source software is because it is going to make those businesses more profitable" #### ⏱️ [47:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNXd_PmQU7s&t=2850) — [H3] Final Call: Collaborate Don't Reinvent - Key idea: Success requires leveraging existing open source projects rather than starting from scratch - Evidence: "Don't reinvent the wheel... collaborate with maintenance and enhance it" ## 📚 References - [Linux Foundation Energy](https://lfenergy.org/) - [Cyber Resilience Act (CRA)](https://digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu/en/library/cyber-resilience-act) ## 🗣️ Paraphrase - Industrial sectors are adopting open source primarily to break free from vendor lock-in situations and reduce costs while improving speed to market - The shift from proprietary to open source changes responsibility models, requiring organizations to take more ownership of maintenance and compliance - Cultural transformation and education are essential for widespread open source adoption, but business value and profitability remain the primary motivators ## 📰 Newsletter **Open Source Transforms Traditional Industries: Key Insights from European Panel** Industrial innovation is getting a major boost from open source adoption across automotive, energy, and financial services sectors. A recent panel discussion revealed how regulated industries are breaking free from vendor lock-in while accelerating development cycles. **Key Takeaways:** - **Speed Matters**: Development time dropped from one year to three months using commodity hardware and open source software - **Collaboration Wins**: Traditional competitors now contribute to shared projects, reducing duplicate efforts - **Culture Change Required**: Success depends on education and mindset shifts, not just technical adoption The panelists emphasized that open source works best as a platform for differentiation rather than a tool for commoditization. Organizations can focus resources on unique value creation while leveraging community-developed foundations. **What's Next:** Consider how your organization balances make vs. buy decisions and whether open source could accelerate your development pipeline. Resources: [Linux Foundation](https://linuxfoundation.org/), [Open Source Business Models](https://opensource.guide/), [OSPO Guidelines](https://todogroup.org/) ## ✅ Action Items #### DevRel - Developer advocacy: Create industry-specific case studies showing open source ROI - Education: Develop curriculum for regulated industry compliance with open source - Developer experience: Build tools that simplify open source adoption in conservative sectors - Community management: Foster cross-industry collaboration forums #### OSPO - Policy & Governance: Establish guidelines for regulated industry open source use - License Compliance: Create frameworks for CRA compliance with open source components - Strategic Alignment: Develop KPIs measuring business value from open source adoption - Community Engagement: Fund projects addressing industrial innovation needs #### Community - Contributors: Support industrial use case documentation and examples - Sponsors: Encourage enterprise funding of foundational projects - Ecosystem: Facilitate vendor collaboration on shared open source initiatives #### The WPCC - Programs: Create fellowships for industrial open source implementation - Projects: Support governance frameworks for regulated industry adoption - Funding: Provide grants for educational initiatives in traditional sectors ## 🧪 Hypotheses - Organizations adopt open source primarily to escape vendor lock-in rather than for innovation benefits - Cultural resistance to open source decreases when business value is clearly demonstrated through cost savings - Regulated industries require different open source adoption strategies than technology-native sectors - Educational initiatives targeting youth create long-term cultural shifts toward open source acceptance ### 📊 Methodology - Survey automotive, energy, and financial services organizations on open source adoption drivers - Measure correlation between vendor concentration and open source adoption rates - Track development cycle time improvements after open source implementation - Interview decision-makers on resistance factors and success metrics ### ❓ Questions - How can open source communities better serve regulated industry requirements? - What specific compliance frameworks need development for industrial open source use? - Which business metrics most effectively justify open source investments to conservative leadership? ### 🔮 Future Research - Comparative analysis of open source maturity across additional regulated sectors - Impact assessment of digital sovereignty policies on international open source collaboration - Long-term effects of vendor collaboration on competitive dynamics ### 💡 Implications - Practice: Industrial organizations need OSPO capabilities and compliance frameworks - Policy: Digital sovereignty initiatives should promote global collaboration over isolation - Education: Technical curricula should include open source collaboration skills - Funding: Business-driven metrics essential for sustaining industrial open source projects ### 🧠 Learning Styles Assessment Reading level estimate: 12th Grade #### 👀 Visual learners - Present: Some industry examples and comparisons provided - Improve: Industry adoption timeline diagrams, vendor ecosystem maps #### 🔊 Aural learners - Present: Video format with panel discussion available - Improve: Podcast version with enhanced audio quality #### 🗣️ Verbal learners - Present: Good use of analogies (helmet story, priest example) - Improve: More industry-specific terminology definitions #### 🧩 Kinesthetic learners - Present: Panel discussion format encourages engagement - Improve: Workshop exercises for open source business case development #### 🧠 Logical learners - Present: Clear problem-solution frameworks presented - Improve: Decision trees for make vs buy choices with open source #### 🧑‍🤝‍🧑 Social learners - Present: Panel format demonstrates collaborative discussion - Improve: Breakout session guides for industry peer discussions #### 🧘‍♀️ Solitary learners - Present: Individual reflection questions implied - Improve: Self-assessment worksheets for organizational readiness #### 🌿 Naturalistic learners - Present: Some ecosystem thinking about vendor relationships - Improve: Industry ecosystem lifecycle analogies ### 📊 Accessibility Assessment #### Screen reader semantics - Present: Video has speech content for audio processing - Improve: Provide full transcript with speaker identification #### Keyboard navigation - Present: Standard YouTube video controls available - Improve: Chapter markers for easier navigation #### Contrast and readability - Present: Video player meets basic contrast requirements - Improve: High contrast transcript option #### Media and captions - Present: YouTube auto-captions available - Improve: Professional captions with technical term accuracy ### 🌍 DEIB Assessment #### Cultural breadth - Present: European perspective with global business context - Improve: Include perspectives from other regional markets #### Inclusive language - Present: Professional, respectful discussion throughout - Improve: Ensure technical jargon accessible to non-experts #### Representation - Present: Industry diversity across sectors represented - Improve: Gender and geographic diversity in panel composition ### ✅ Logical Validity #### Strong reasoning - Deductive strength: Clear premises about business drivers leading to logical conclusions about adoption - Inductive strength: Good use of specific industry examples to support general principles - Analogical strength: Effective use of helmet story to illustrate cultural change processes #### Fallacies - Appeal to authority: Occasional reliance on speaker credentials rather than evidence - Hasty generalization: Some broad claims about entire industries based on limited examples #### Tone of voice - Overall tone: Professional, collaborative, and pragmatic with good balance of technical and business perspectives ### 🛡️ DARVO Analysis - Deny: No denial patterns observed - Attack: No attacks on accusers present - Reverse victim/offender: Not applicable to this content - Emotional cues: Positive, collaborative tone throughout ## 🎯 Conclusion Open source adoption in regulated industries is driven primarily by business pragmatism rather than ideological commitment. The most successful implementations focus on breaking vendor lock-in, reducing costs, and accelerating development cycles. Cultural transformation through education represents a critical long-term strategy, but immediate adoption depends on demonstrable business value and profitability improvements. ## 🧱 Refactor Appendix ### 📚 Literature Split Pad ### [H1] Open source breaks vendor lock-in in automotive > [!quote] [Panel Discussion: Open Source Enabling Industrial Innovation](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNXd_PmQU7s) by [MISSING] via YouTube. Published [MISSING]. Accessed 2024-12-28. > "They were so fed up with being all locked in and having tied to suppliers." Automotive manufacturers shift to open source primarily to escape proprietary software dependencies and regain control over their software stack. [view highlight](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNXd_PmQU7s&t=150#H1) #xref #articleseed ID:rw_001 ### [H2] Open source serves as differentiation platform > [!quote] [Panel Discussion: Open Source Enabling Industrial Innovation](https://www. - Document Tags: [[h1]] [[xref]] [[funding]] [[strategy]] [[education]] - Summary: Panel Discussion: Open Source Enabling Industrial Innovation - URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNXd_PmQU7s Okay, thank you everyone for your presentations. Um, honestly I found it really interesting because yeah, I don't I don't work on like industrial innovation. I don't work with people who make things that actually run that actually exist, you know, in the in the normal world. I work in Brussels on policy. And what I found really interesting, what I found really interesting is that you work in deeply regulated sectors, very um kind of conservative in their approach to things and opensource is very iterative, very innovative, has totally different rules. And what would you say is the level of maturity in terms of open-source involvement in your sector? and what was the biggest change that it brought for your sector? Um, and also just I would like to have a conversation. So feel free to, you know, exchange views and ask questions between each other as well. >> I'll maybe start. Yeah, I think there's lots of commonalities actually. I was quite pleased when each of us were touching more or less the same problems, same solutions, giving us open source. So we were all kind of regulated in a sense. So different regulations but definitely have the same fabric I think. Um, which was interesting to see that open source is actually solving all of our industries potentially um and improving our speed to market quality and cost reduction eventually like maybe as a differentiating part what I see for automotive it's for and open source it may not be just the regulation parts about it. Um what you can see is we were coming into more and more lock in environment and what really changed during the last year, two years, three years maybe is to come much more on a collaborative perspective because the car manufacturers were so much fed up with uh being all locked in and having tied to suppliers. Pay them for angle any single line of code change. They want to go to new software. They couldn't change the supplier because they were so tied to it. So they started to take control. They wanted to take control about the whole software stack and still try to uh involve others because if you suddenly take control about something you have never controlled you need a partner to do so and by this new models need to come up and that's where open source plays in hand. So I don't know how the other industry sees it but for us it's about suddenly that the silicon vendor who provide the chip the BSP provider the tier one which integrate the things plus suddenly need to find a way of collaborating sharing information and have a foundational base on working and it's not that it's like a layered approach anymore. I don't know how you have it in your industries. Uh so I'm going to hit that from a slightly different angle as well uh which is that uh every industry uh has make versus buy decisions. You have a problem it needs code to solve that problem. You have to decide whether you buy it in or you make it yourself and open source expands the breadth of that question. Uh one of the really interesting things about open source is that it changes and particularly with CRA the introduction of the cyber resilience act. Uh it actually moves where the uh responsibility lies. When I bought software one of the things that I was actually buying was uh insurance of maintenance, insurance of reliability of that software. And with open source, I actually have to take significantly more of that responsibility on myself. And indeed with Cyber Resilience Act, the difference between a software vendor and a software curator, a huge legal difference and all of the responsibility as a software vendor then falls on me as a a user. Uh so that that idea of uh compliance is a critically important one in that that overall make versus buy decision of which opensource is is an elements. >> Well I'll just break the sorry rule of going in a line. Um it's the same in our industry. I'm pleased you're saying so because um on the one side I was putting as a challenge right in a slide where we're saying a maintenance and being on top of that is a problem because now it's relying partially on me or something else. But in addition I want to say that the speed to market is now improved massively. So once we had the proprietary software and hardware and everything took a year at least to have a product out now by leveraging commodity hardware and commodity software we can do it in a kind of three monthish. Yeah, I will get back to your question about maturity um on the energy sector. I mean the particularity is all the utility the end user you know they are not competitors because the regulation so they were used to work in silo and bringing open source um start them to collaborate in another way. uh they used to collaborate in standardization in a lot of but they start to collaborate um on project and the way they achieve a maturity you know I see them like a huge community and they are pioneers in the community and most of these pioneers you know they actually it's pretty easy they follow the the rules the 101 you know open source 101 breeding an ospo and and and getting the the the old how you will contribute how you you will manage it and how you will bring it to uh also the top level. So the the main utility that are involved in and driving the show they follow that rules and that's why we're also trying to uh promote into this uh this ecosystem is uh they now have a like an OSPO community uh in Europe but also now with the new OSPO in in North America and I think we see that it's like a virtuous cycle because everyone is seeing what are doing the others and seeing that they start having success on what they do that bring the new one uh on the on the stage. So open source 101 building uh that the rules >> but you know for us it's open source 101 and I'm wondering if in your industries like there hasn't been resistance to this very different way of working and you know earlier on um I think Thomas mentioned that digital sovereignity is like all of those efforts seem to be a bit based on fear and I feel like this can also be taken into the uptake of open source within those vertical industries. It's a bit out of fear, you know, it's in order to compete, it's in order to catch up. Uh you mentioned China, we we had all of those examples. Um how do you think we can swi switch that into using open source to win to lead? >> Well, there are several parts on your question. The first one, yes, resistance. Absolutely. Yes. very human >> um natural you are used to certain tools ways of working stuff and when change comes you are kind of naturally resisting that it's thinking it's better old ways so that's inevitable second part of the question I forgot actually >> it was how to because we talked I think um especially Paul mentioned that open source was used as a pragmatic choice >> and I'm kind of going for the question on how to make it a more strategic choice to win and not only to catch up. >> Well, go. >> Well, first of all, I would say that uh in my industry, in my area of scope of supply, uh open source is actually used really, really, really deep inside of the product offering. Uh so yeah open source can be a strategic decision but don't think that using open source is going to change your product. In fact, the single most important thing that I think we need to do as an open- source community is to uh stop leaders of our own businesses believing that open source is going to commoditize us. Because the thing that kills any company, the thing that kills any business is being commoditized. And the biggest fear of a business leader is being commoditized. And the more that we talk about open source as a tool to commoditize, the more we create fear, what we need to talk about is open source as I explicitly did open source as a platform for differentiation so that you didn't spend your time working on the things that everyone does the same. You spend your time focusing on the things that you do different that you do unique. No. >> Yeah, to totally agree. You know, the community is it's is it's investing for the community in a fact that you can add your concentrate on your ad value. But getting back to the the the the fear of sovereign digital sovereignty, you know, uh it's because we code and we don't we don't do politics. As soon as it brings to politics, you know, it gets strange um uh effect. But choosing a persource is a political act too. So it's complicated. The the fact is that it's really an indication in a fact that as we have spent the past years educating on open source, we need to now um continue to educate on on openness and the fact that digital sovereignty or digital autonomy is not is isolationism, you know, is not getting back to uh your own on on own software. You know, doing open source is not reinventing the wheel. So it will be a massive error if Europe, you know, making reinvent the wheel to to to compete the open source community that's already exist. So it's a question of education at every stage on a fact that's putting the right name uh or the right concept behind what we call digital sovereignty or digital autonomy. Mhm. And do you think that this is something that is understood in your separate industries and this is some and something that is not understood on the political level? Because you know on the political level we see a lot of the calls for more European open source for you know kind of like how to achieve European digital sovereignity while it's not only Europe that is striving for this and as >> it's only my point of view but I think that's when we speak about u industrial or product you know it's business and all this product are done in open source it's not said it's not spread all over it's the way we do business. But when we speak about, you know, more IT consumer fact where where they're in an impact on the people, that's where the politician can have an impact on on the communication and then that's where the fear can come. But on our side, you know, I don't see it like u like like an issue. And what we see in the LF energy it's really a wheel that's uh all the project that are done in Europe we need to have a strong enough base of users and that's will be Europe but that's will be also North America and that could be elsewhere. So we need the community needs to be global >> and I guess for the automotive industry the sovereignity part there is a well or there is a sense in sovereignity and an interest um but it's not sovereignity like being sovereign from other areas. So it's really just a global thing and the automotive industry wants to have an alternative so that we have really t kind of monopolies uh def factor monopolies like key players which uh have like 50% of market share on certain things. So you have no real choice than taking this solution and this dictates prices and if you have the supplier and they force you into price they try to look in. So um we have safety certified real realtime operating systems which are used which have like 50% market share and what you hear is like we want to get out of this. We want to have an alternative. Uh we don't want to pay them again and again and again more and more. They can dictate prices. We want to be cost competitive. We want to be faster and we want to get more control. But really it's it's not a pure cost-driven thing, but it always boils down to like how can I be in the right spot for addressing the market with the right amount with the right cost share. And we see that there's high cost pressure on this and this helps and therefore sovereignity in the way from having the chance to choose and to be able to sell your products globally. So that's basically an automotive driver. >> Maybe quick contribution from my industry. I have to say that my industry is not driven by engineering right so it's driven by business and and business decision are made on investment cost uh and profits and hence that's the main driver um not again regional geopolitical elements are not really at le I don't sense there is any thinking about that in my industry is more about very strong um very kind of vertical industrial view whereby we are competing against other um vendors, other banks and our focus is to be on top of that league. We are not looking any further. And then again back back to business. So business will be interested to see when we have less cost uh time to market all those KPIs will be important for deciding which way to go. And for now we we are happy to say that you know open source is helping with those those KPIs. Hence we are happily able to continue with use and potentially expand open source in the banking sector. >> I think you know like going back to the very first question that I asked about the level of maturity I think we see here that there is the level of maturity that is more focused on the pragmatic approach to open source. Okay. Like we just use it for Yeah. for better profits for uh ensuring that our operations run better to a bit more strategic. And I feel like in energy it feels a bit more strategic because I feel like that's such an interconnected industry and that is going through such such a change now. Um I don't know that's that's what I'm feeling sensing from Kristoff your presentation and what we are discussing now. Would you agree with this and would you like to expand? It's strategic but it's also very pragmatic because the amount of investments that all the utilities will need to spend and this is investments come from uh government and from the consumer that spits electricity. So it's such an amount of money that every utilities alone won't be able to achieve that. So it's a need it's a pragmatic but also strategic way to uh achieve a solution that's uh we won't have outage uh gap gap in the the the electricity delivery. So it's a need and it's needs to be um very fast. I mean that was one of the point of Luchian Ba the the chair of the government governing board of the eleph of RTE they they put it really from the pragmatic uh base to the strategic one as the CEO uh pointing out the outsource uh the open source strategy at the fact that there is no other way for them to uh to work. So it's an alignment with the pragmatic and the strategic. >> Uh in my industry everything is going software. In every industry everything is going softwaredefined. In my industry everything is going softwaredefined. That is unambiguously completely a strategy. Uh and so I talked about open source being a tactical tool to get there. uh because I'm driven by profit as you said uh from a national government perspective where the objective is to be driven by job creation that's the strategy for the uh national governments then uh open source uh if it is a good tactic for me becomes a good strategy for a national government to convince me to invest in people in that in that region. Uh so I wouldn't necessarily see a need for individual industries to be uh strategically driven because what those industries need to deliver isn't open-source software. Uh very different to a governmental strategy which is around enabling empowering people to be attractive points of inward investment. Maybe I can just chip in on maturity question in in my bank. Uh I think it's a journey as I mentioned in my presentation. Right. So we we started something about 10 years agoish. Um adopting open source and we are now I think quite maturely using open source in certain aspects of the bank. Uh we need to go to the next phase next level up whereby we start actually driving some of open source projects where where we would like to be. Um >> Philip if you don't mind maybe just to to to add to my um answer that the fact that um the energy the UTS are not alone you know there's all the vendors and actually there is really a virtual cycle because as soon as uh the utilities will consume uh open source you know it will challenge uh the business of the main vendors and in our sector you know the the main vendor venders there are five or six you know itachi abbneider semens uh g vernova whatever name it um so they have to also their business is disrupted by that because they were used you know to sell hardware and to have like vendor locking to the utilities so they will still be selling their product to the utilities uh but then they will probably need also there themselves to work different uh in in a different way and it was very uh funny in we were in Aren in September for the uh allegi summit and um we took a pictures and they were a guy from Simmons from G from ABB and Schneider and uh we took a picture of the four of them and they they never met and they were the first time that they actually contribute on on a project uh together. So that's all the EOS business ecosystem which wi- which is evolving on uh on that. >> Yeah. And just for my industry um very personal feeling for automotive open source is not the strategy it's the strategic tool because it solves a lot of problems or uh areas where the industry wants to improve. So they see like what options do we have? What areas can we do? How do we solve this? How do we get forward? How we become faster, better, whatever. Then we make use of open source as our tooling. And open source is not a selling element because I will not sell one more car by saying this car runs on open source. And then the customer is in the like shop and says like oh really can you tell me what open source is? And if you feel like that's a that's an uncommon question or a stupid question to ask, right? Go to your friends and ask them what they know about open source. I was talking to a priest in my town and telling her about open source and she said like, "So you're telling me that there are people out there who create software for free in their free time?" Say, "Yes, that's what they do." That's unbelievable. And this from a priest who knows that she's in an environment where there's a lot of voluntary work by all the people in the community, right? So she's knows the ecosystem, but she had hard times to directly connect this just to like well that really exists and this is shows you like if we get this feeling for um GDPR rights for security things. So all the benefits which we have experienced for open source if this ends up in the broader community maybe at some point we don't need to sit here anymore because the people asking for where's my open source solution for it where is uh the way how do I get control how do I understand things and I guess it's something which especially in Germany is also strongly driven where the people still like to pay with uh notes and coins rather than using their credit card because it feels like having or being controlled and don't have the full power of everything anymore. Yeah, and I think you you talk a lot about this cultural aspect of open source because open source is actually, you know, quite a culture, but I have to say that uh with the priest story, you know, preaching open source, you know, kind of has a new meaning, I feel. Um that's that's very interesting because I think you know I was um I was on the team that did the study on the economic impact of open source and for the European Commission back in 2021 and the most important outcome that we found out was that it's all about the culture when whether it comes to adoption of open source in a particular industry there has to be the willingness to change. there has to be the willingness to innovate and change the old ways to convince people that okay let's do this in a different way um and that's something that runs very deeply and I think this is something that Europe is also trying to do with the whole digital sovereignity debate because yes we want to regain control over technology ecosystems infrastructure in Europe but Europe wants to do it on its own rules with the values that you already mentioned. Yeah. Like like privacy, like control over your own data. Um, and I was wondering if you see something that Europe should do in terms of digital sovereignity, you know, within the area of your sector. Is there something specific that you would like to point to? Well, the first thing I want to say is that uh one person's digital sovereignty is another person's non-trade barrier. For any business that is having to trade on a global basis, then uh we don't mind standards, we don't mind costs of doing business. Uh we understand the need for regulation. Uh but at the same time uh having rules that are geographically specific rules create absolutely disproportionate costs of doing business and absolutely get in the way of innovation that actually really matters to our users. To your point about no one's going to buy another car because it's got open source software, even fewer people are going to buy a car because it's got European open-source software in it. >> Yeah, I think that what has been said before with Thomas and Gabriella on on key talk I think was spot on, right? So it was about enabling in Europe uh much closer collaboration by removing barriers and we do have plenty of barriers and we talked about investment and ability to regulation to open a company in Europe is much more complicated than doing US. So all that if it is removed will enable definitely much better collaboration and uh starting being a leader on the world stage. Thank you. Uh we actually have two three minutes left. Uh so maybe your point and then we can go to you know just a short call to action or like one point that you would like to for our audience to remember from the panel. >> Mhm. >> I would combine with the call to action. I think it fits. It's not 100% to the question but um I made the story with the priest. I have another one um with the daughter of a colleague. Every morning she's going to school and she's taking the bicycle. She wears a helmet. There is another woman which they meet in the morning. They share the same way. She also take the bicycle. She's not wearing a helmet. The first day she said like, "Why don't you wear a helmet?" "Oh, I just forgot it." The second day, why do you wear your helmet? Well, you know, um it's not so common. I forgot it again. So she was but you know you can be heard. So she was explaining all the benefits and why she should wear a helmet and it's not that she's stopping after a third time and everybody who has kids knows how good they are in repeating the theme. So my colleague said you know what I'm really proud of this morning it was the next Monday we met our neighbor again. She's wearing a helmet now. And this how also worked in my young when I was in primary school. We were told how to separate waste, how to look for the environment, how to save water, electricity and so on. And that become part of my mindset. And I think that's where we need to touch on. If we understand what opensource software means, what it enables you, what it can bring. And if we teach this to teachers, to school, to kids, then it will become part part of the culture and the part of the understanding. And the people will start making that choice. If they're at university, they say maybe I don't buy a Windows laptop, but I just install Linux because it's anyway much better for scientific things, right? These kind of things. But it's not you need to figure it out on your own. No. And you're not trained. There's no initiative around this. And this would be my call to action also. And also for everybody here, just start explaining it not only to your business partner. Start explaining it to younger kids. show like that you can make this cultural change over time like a Fridays for future just for open source. >> Thank you. >> Wonderfully aspirational. I wish that I'd said uh half of that. So instead I'm going to put my regular hat back on and say don't forget about the money. Remember that the fundamental reason that businesses choose to use open source software is because it is going to make those businesses more profitable. Never lose track of that. If you want investment in open source projects, make sure that the people who have got money believe that they will have more money because they have made that investment. So my call to action is with all of the religion about open source software, remember about the money. >> Thank you. Tomorrow we will have a panel on funding open source software. Um Kristoff Renzo one sentence closing. >> Can I first go? Yeah. So my takeaway will be collaborate. So don't reinvent the wheel. If you have to do something you have to do a project, you have a look in open source community there is something there which will have good part of what you want to do and just collaborate with maintenance and enhance it. So don't reinvent the wheel. Thank you Kristoff. >> Um yeah that will be also bring the money at the right place. Um because you know open yeah open source is collaboration and and there is a lot of flavor of open source and and we see also that the the the speech about um protectionism in Europe comes sometimes on the open source Europe by company that does open source but with no collaboration you know it's just like premium solution and that will be probably um a mistake to you know go on on that path to promote only European open source because behind we need that collaboration we need a European collaboration with the rest of the world on the open source so it's bringing the money on on at the right place and also asking all the that for the government but also So for the users, the company that makes money on open source, pay it, contribute, join the Linux Foundation. Uh because we not I mean you know we >> we need we we need it you know uh we are small and I will finish on that. We are very small. We were a very small company u 20 people and we decided to join the Linux Foundation because we are making money of it and I think every company that does money around open source should contribute to make sure that all the asset we are collaborating on will be funded for uh the the all the innovation we need to to bring on the table. >> Thank you Kristoff. Uh we have to move on. Thank you so much for this interesting conversation and for the panel. Thank you., Panel Discussion: Open Source Enabling Industrial Innovation, YouTube, 01kah7wr1awnchxpnnc2e8jnz2.