SEO and Development. How to Avoid Friction ![rw-book-cover](https://img.youtube.com/vi/m-MmVN4ktu0/maxresdefault.jpg) ## Metadata - Author: [[YouTube]] - Full Title: SEO and Development. How to Avoid Friction - Category: #articles - Document Note: --- tags: [seo, web-development, team-collaboration] author: Montse Cano source: WordCamp Europe 2024 reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-MmVN4ktu0 date created: 2024-12-19 10:30 --- # 🏷️ Title: SEO and Development. How to Avoid Friction ## 🧰 Action Inbox - [H1] Establish regular communication workflows with development teams — improve project delivery #collaboration - [H2] Create feedback loops between SEO and engineering teams — prevent implementation bottlenecks #workflow - [H3] Document technical requirements in developer-friendly language — reduce misunderstandings #communication ## 🧭 Table of Contents - [📝 Summary](#-summary) - [📖 Main Content](#-main-content) - [🗒️ Notes](#️-notes) - [📚 References](#-references) - [🗣️ Paraphrase](#️-paraphrase) - [📰 Newsletter](#-newsletter) - [✅ Action Items](#-action-items) - [🧪 Hypotheses](#-hypotheses) - [📊 Methodology](#-methodology) - [❓ Questions](#-questions) - [🔮 Future Research](#-future-research) - [💡 Implications](#-implications) - [🧠 Learning Styles Assessment](#-learning-styles-assessment) - [📊 Accessibility Assessment](#-accessibility-assessment) - [🌍 DEIB Assessment](#-deib-assessment) - [✅ Logical Validity](#-logical-validity) - [🛡️ DARVO Analysis](#-darvo-analysis) - [🎯 Conclusion](#-conclusion) ### 🔗 References - [SEO and Development. How to Avoid Friction](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-MmVN4ktu0) - [Google Women Techmakers Program](https://www.womentechmakers.com/) ## 📝 Summary - Montse Cano addresses the communication friction between SEO professionals and development teams that often blocks project implementation - Communication barriers stem from cultural differences, technical language gaps, and lack of transparency between teams - The fourth and fifth industrial revolutions create opportunities for collaboration but also uncertainty and digital fragmentation - Successful collaboration requires transparency, compassion, regular workflows, and understanding different communication preferences - Both SEO and development teams work on the same end products (websites/mobile apps) and need each other's expertise to succeed ## 📖 Main Content Montse Cano, an SEO professional with 21 years of experience working with developers, explains how to overcome communication friction between SEO and development teams. She argues that despite the excitement around AI and technological advancement, implementation remains crucial - great SEO strategies are worthless if they can't be executed by development teams. The presentation occurs during the fourth industrial revolution (starting 2010-2011) and the emerging fifth industrial revolution (2020+) focused on collaboration. While these create opportunities, they also bring uncertainty, imposter syndrome, and digital fragmentation through restrictive regulations and the need to constantly learn new technologies. Common communication problems include developers feeling patronized by non-technical requests, SEOs unable to explain requirements clearly, and both teams sitting in organizational silos. Historical office layouts literally separated engineering teams from marketing/SEO teams, symbolizing the communication gap. Cano proposes a workflow: identify key contacts (business analysts, project managers), establish regular meetings, create feedback loops, and adapt communication styles to cultural preferences. She emphasizes that SEO professionals do build websites and mobile applications - they're not just "the coloring-in department" but technical specialists who need solid implementation for visibility, accessibility, and monetization. ## 🗒️ Notes #### ⏱️ [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-MmVN4ktu0?t=0) — [H1] Speaker Introduction and Conference Context - Key idea: Montse Cano has 13+ years WordPress experience and 21+ years working with developers - Evidence: "Google women Tech makers program ambassador to help Inspire women to have a successful career in Tech" #### ⏱️ [03:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-MmVN4ktu0?t=195) — [H2] The Implementation Problem - Key idea: Technical knowledge means nothing without successful implementation - Evidence: "no matter how well you know about artificial intelligence and generative AI...you will always have the need to implement your recommendations" #### ⏱️ [05:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-MmVN4ktu0?t=330) — [H2] Communication Barriers and Patronization - Key idea: Teams often feel patronized when receiving requests they don't understand - Evidence: "somebody coming to you and say well I have no idea what I'm talking about please could you implement this and could you do it right now" #### ⏱️ [08:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-MmVN4ktu0?t=525) — [H2] Historical Team Separation - Key idea: Physical office layouts reflected and reinforced communication silos - Evidence: "developers or engineering teams were sitting there...marketing and then seos were sitting there...we were not communicating" #### ⏱️ [12:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-MmVN4ktu0?t=720) — [H1] Benefits of Improved Communication - Key idea: Better communication improves products, work environment, and internal reputation - Evidence: "Communication improves three things one the end product...then the working environment...and then lastly your internal internal reputation" #### ⏱️ [14:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-MmVN4ktu0?t=870) — [H3] Cultural Communication Differences - Key idea: International teams require understanding of different communication preferences - Evidence: "some cultures...they like writing long emails...in some others they don't like writing emails at all" #### ⏱️ [16:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-MmVN4ktu0?t=1005) — [H2] The Black Box Website Story - Key idea: Poor documentation and setup create fear and resistance to changes - Evidence: "I consider this website to be a black box because the the setup was terrible there was no documentation" #### ⏱️ [18:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-MmVN4ktu0?t=1100) — [H1] Industrial Revolution Context - Key idea: We're living through the fourth and fifth industrial revolutions affecting all collaboration - Evidence: "fourth Industrial Revolution started in 2010 or 2011...2020 for some propelled the fifth Industrial Revolution which is all to do with collaboration" #### ⏱️ [22:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-MmVN4ktu0?t=1335) — [H2] Digital Fragmentation Challenges - Key idea: Regulations and rapid technology changes create barriers to collaboration - Evidence: "regulation which is not making it possible for the free flow of data and talents" #### ⏱️ [25:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-MmVN4ktu0?t=1540) — [H2] Industry Uncertainty and Reputation Issues - Key idea: AI developments are making clients question the value of SEO services - Evidence: "clients are becoming a lot more skeptical and lot more negative...is it worth it and also where is my traffic" #### ⏱️ [28:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-MmVN4ktu0?t=1710) — [H2] Common Developer Frustrations - Key idea: Developers frequently receive unclear, urgent requests from non-technical colleagues - Evidence: "My 5-year-old neighbor can actually do this better than you...could you please do it now" #### ⏱️ [31:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-MmVN4ktu0?t=1905) — [H1] What SEOs Need From Developers - Key idea: SEOs need solid technical implementation and advice on limitations - Evidence: "we need you to help us doing a fantastic solid technical implementation...we still need a fantastic implementation" #### ⏱️ [34:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-MmVN4ktu0?t=2060) — [H2] Technical Collaboration Areas - Key idea: Uptime, accessibility, migrations, and security require both SEO and development expertise - Evidence: "website migrations particularly the the two riskiest examples servers um and S platforming we definitely need you there" #### ⏱️ [37:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-MmVN4ktu0?t=2230) — [H1] Suggested Collaboration Workflow - Key idea: Establish clear contacts, regular meetings, and feedback loops - Evidence: "find out who you need to talk to...agree a workflow meaning maybe just regular meetings" #### ⏱️ [40:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-MmVN4ktu0?t=2425) — [H2] Success Story Resolution - Key idea: Transparency and mutual support can overcome initial resistance - Evidence: "I actually proved to them...that nothing could actually break that easily...the developer ended up confiding in me" ## 📚 References - [WordCamp Europe 2024](https://europe.wordcamp.org/2024/) - [Google Women Techmakers](https://www.womentechmakers.com/) - [Atlassian Jira](https://www.atlassian.com/software/jira) ## 🗣️ Paraphrase - SEO professionals and developers often struggle to communicate effectively, leading to failed project implementations despite good strategies and technical skills - The current industrial revolution context creates both collaboration opportunities and uncertainty that can worsen communication problems between technical teams - Successful collaboration requires understanding cultural differences, establishing regular workflows, and recognizing that both SEO and development work toward the same goal of building successful websites and applications ## 📰 Newsletter **Breaking Down Silos: Why SEO and Development Teams Need Each Other** Montse Cano's WordCamp Europe presentation tackles a persistent challenge in WordPress development: the communication gap between SEO specialists and developers. With AI changing the digital landscape, solid technical implementation remains crucial for website success. **Key insight**: Both teams work on the same end products - websites and mobile applications that need to be visible, accessible, and profitable. SEOs aren't just "the coloring-in department" but technical specialists who understand how sites should function for search engines and users. **Practical approach**: Establish regular workflows, identify key contacts (business analysts, project managers), and adapt communication styles to team preferences. Some cultures prefer detailed emails, others need face-to-face conversations. **Common collaboration areas**: Website migrations, accessibility implementation, server management, cybersecurity, and platform integrations all require both SEO knowledge and development expertise. The bottom line: In an era of AI uncertainty, teams that collaborate effectively will build better products and advance their careers. Resources: [Learn WordPress](https://learn.wordpress.org/), [Developer Docs](https://developer.wordpress.org/), [WP-CLI](https://wp-cli.org/) ## ✅ Action Items #### DevRel - Developer advocacy: Create SEO-developer collaboration workshops for conferences - Education: Develop curriculum on technical SEO for developers and development basics for SEOs - Developer experience: Improve WordPress documentation for SEO implementation patterns - Community management: Facilitate cross-team discussions in WordPress forums #### WordPress - Core: Prioritize SEO-friendly defaults in WordPress core development - Documentation: Create technical SEO implementation guides for developers - Community: Develop meetup formats that bring together SEO and development professionals - Training: Build lesson plans for cross-functional team collaboration #### Community - Maintainers: Develop governance templates that include both SEO and development perspectives - Contributors: Create first-issue programs that require both SEO and development skills - Ecosystem: Coordinate between SEO plugin developers and theme developers ## 🧪 Hypotheses - Teams with regular SEO-developer communication workflows deliver projects faster and with fewer post-launch issues - Organizations that physically or virtually co-locate SEO and development teams see better collaboration outcomes - Cultural communication training reduces project friction between international SEO and development teams - WordPress sites with SEO-developer collaboration from the start achieve better search performance than those with retrofitted SEO ### 📊 Methodology - Survey WordPress agencies to compare project delivery times and post-launch issues between teams with formal SEO-developer workflows versus ad-hoc communication - A/B test different communication formats (email, meetings, documentation) with international WordPress teams - Analyze search performance data from WordPress sites built with integrated SEO-developer teams versus traditional handoff approaches ### ❓ Questions - What specific WordPress development practices most commonly conflict with SEO requirements? - How do different international cultures within the WordPress community prefer to structure technical communication? - What metrics best measure the success of SEO-developer collaboration in WordPress projects? ### 🔮 Future Research - Impact of AI tools on SEO-developer collaboration patterns in WordPress development - Effectiveness of different project management methodologies for cross-functional WordPress teams - Role of technical documentation quality in reducing SEO-developer friction ### 💡 Implications - Practice: WordPress developers need SEO knowledge as a core competency, not an afterthought - Policy: Organizations should structure teams to encourage SEO-developer collaboration rather than maintaining silos - Education: WordPress training programs should include cross-functional team communication skills - Funding: Investment in collaboration tools and processes pays off in faster project delivery and better outcomes ### 🧠 Learning Styles Assessment Reading level estimate: 12th grade (Flesch-Kincaid Grade Level) #### 👀 Visual learners - Present: Speaker slides, office layout diagrams - Improve: Process flowcharts, before/after collaboration examples, team structure diagrams #### 🔊 Aural learners - Present: Conference presentation format with Q&A - Improve: Podcast version of key concepts, audio case studies #### 🗣️ Verbal learners - Present: Clear definitions of SEO vs development roles, detailed examples - Improve: Glossary of technical terms, metaphors for complex concepts #### 🧩 Kinesthetic learners - Present: Real-world case studies and workflows - Improve: Interactive collaboration exercises, hands-on workshop formats #### 🧠 Logical learners - Present: Step-by-step workflow, cause-and-effect relationships - Improve: Decision trees for communication choices, metrics for success #### 🧑‍🤝‍🧑 Social learners - Present: Conference Q&A format, team collaboration focus - Improve: Group discussion guides, peer collaboration exercises #### 🧘‍♀️ Solitary learners - Present: Individual reflection on past collaboration experiences - Improve: Self-assessment tools, personal action planning templates #### 🌿 Naturalistic learners - Present: Industrial revolution context, ecosystem thinking - Improve: Organizational ecosystem maps, evolution of collaboration patterns ### 📊 Accessibility Assessment #### Screen reader semantics - Present: Clear heading structure, descriptive content - Improve: Alt text for presentation slides, transcript formatting #### Keyboard navigation - Present: Standard video player controls - Improve: Chapter navigation, searchable transcript #### Contrast and readability - Present: High contrast presentation slides - Improve: Larger font sizes in slides, color-blind friendly palette #### Media and captions - Present: Full transcript provided - Improve: Professional captions with speaker identification ### 🌍 DEIB Assessment #### Cultural breadth - Present: Discussion of international communication differences, multiple cultural examples - Improve: Specific examples from diverse WordPress communities globally #### Inclusive language - Present: Gender-neutral terms, avoids technical jargon without explanation - Improve: More inclusive examples beyond traditional corporate structures #### Neurodiversity support - Present: Clear structure, consistent format - Improve: Visual aids for different processing styles #### Representation - Present: Female speaker in male-dominated field, cultural diversity emphasis - Improve: Examples from developers and SEOs of varied backgrounds ### ✅ Logical Validity #### Strong reasoning - Deductive strength: Clear cause-effect relationships between communication and project success - Inductive strength: Multiple case studies support general principles - Causal reasoning: Links communication barriers to specific project failures - Analogical strength: Industrial revolution context effectively illustrates current changes #### Fallacies - Hasty generalization: Some broad claims about developer/SEO relationships based on limited examples - Appeal to authority: Google Women Techmakers credential used without direct relevance to communication skills #### Tone of voice - Overall tone: Professional but conversational, includes humor and personal anecdotes to maintain engagement ### 🛡️ - Document Tags: [[workflow]] [[collaboration]] [[communication]] - Summary: SEO and Development. How to Avoid Friction - URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-MmVN4ktu0 our next speaker knows how to handle developers with over 13 years of Wordpress experience under her belt she is a seasoned WordPress user and well before WordPress she already worked in SEO and digital marketing she's a well-known name in the SEO and digital marketing communities and typically works with companies in global markets recently she was appointed Ambassador for the Google women Tech makers program to help Inspire women to have a successful career in Tech just like herself and working with Developers for 21 years has taught her a lot so let's learn how to avoid friction between SEO and development please give your warmest Applause to mon [Applause] thank you so much to for everyone to be here I can see the room almost full is amazing and I would like to thank the organization of world Camp Europe 2024 for putting together this amazing show please give it up for them please bck Round of [Applause] Applause now I would like to ask you a couple of questions who is an SEO here who's working as an SEO all right who is a developer CTO programmer uh product yeah and who's a decision maker here who makes the decisions in the room perfect and lastly who's a student all right well okay I see some hands raising congratulations to those of you who have decided to come and dedicate yourselves by coming to this conference and it's a very positive step step and hopefully you will have a list of action points and I contact L also to follow up with when you get back home now I I could have chosen a bit of a more seoe type of type of topic to discuss today particularly in light of everything that is going on in the industry at this moment in time we are living convulsive times now really really indeed but my thing is no matter how well you know about artificial intelligence and generative AI etc etc no matter how well you know about that what happens is that you will always have the need to implement uh your recommendations or your requirements depending on the side of the of the table that you're working at as this moment in time and unfortunately what happens is that there are many times where when we can't when we can't Implement things and this is a big blocker for seos it's just just like any project that cannot be delivered and if it cannot be delivered then it's just an idea up in the air um some of the blockers and of the big reasons for for this is that sometimes communication between um between AO or marketing teams and engineering teams is not the best now Tom Kow was referring actually to the fact that um sometimes senior Executives can actually take recommendations as as if they were being patronized who hasn't been patronized sometime in their career come on how many times have you seen somebody coming to you and say well I have no idea what I'm talking about please could you implement this and could you do it right now and then you have to spend whole day trying to explain something that they have no idea what they they're saying you are saying and uh yeah and at the end of the day you just spend spend the whole day being not produced basically that's what it is so this is what um Tom was referring to and unfortunately I've been there and it sometimes it just doesn't depend on how you actually say things so um the other person might actually check them as being patronized it's being something that is not really useful to them and and you are making them feel bad and this is what um this is something that unfortunately does happen very very often and it applies to the relationship between seos and Engineering teams um you have to make it work but I'll give you a sneak peek it doesn't always work and it doesn't always work because I think sometimes it's human nature um and it's not to do with personalities most of the times at least not in my in my in my experience is mostly to do with the lack of ability of teams to communicate between each other um sometimes you have to basically meet middle ground and it's rather difficult to actually do that so you have to be very careful that we have to know exactly that this can happen it doesn't always work but uh knowing the constraints that you're working with will make things a lot easier so Taco has made a great introduction of me I really wanted to stress the um the the part where I am an ambassador to the goog program called women Tech makers just to help Inspire girls and women alike so they can have a great career in technology whether they it is product development marketing coding anything at all yeah so um my point is that we have to collaborate this is all geared all all I'm talking about here today is geared towards collaboration and collaboration for to collaborate with someone you need to be transparent you need to communicate properly it's not easy like I said uh there it's just sometimes sometimes what happens is that um there's no opportunity when I started my career and many years later um developers or engineering teams were sitting there if you kindly look to um over your left shoulder towards that corner there at the far end that's where they were used to be sitting eating pizza at the best of times however marketing and then seos were sitting there and that corner there over your um right hand right hand shoulder and that's and that's the I mean we were not communicating we were sitting like um on the same we were were in the same spectrum because um part of marketing which is um perhaps um U internal coms PR etc etc was sitting next to HR Finance because they were being seen as business drivers whereas I know that technology and marketing and then seos were not actually been seen as business drivers and that actually made things a lot of work a lot of worse because um if when somebody actually Sayes a specialist and as say as a business driver they make things work so that those teams those specialisms can actually communicate easily and that doesn't that doesn't happen very often um they used to tell me please Monster just don't go to them because they're not going to be able to understand you and uh it's it's best to leave them to their own devices and it's like well have you tried have you actually tried to go to them and explain exp to them what you really want and why and what you are trying to to um to find out and it's like yeah but people who came over to me and said this they had no idea about marketing they have no idea about SEO and they had no idea about websites or about anything however communication improves three things one the end product because both of us work in websites on websites or mobile applications so that they can actually be visible so that they can be appealing useful to your companies to our companies the companies that we're working with or at um so that they can monetize we can all monetize from them and so that we can actually have a job uh both of them both of us work in the same way uh towards towards improving that then the working environment is it gets better because no one likes getting up in the morning and thinking oh my god do I need to do I need to talk to this person I don't want to I don't want to go to this this meeting whereas working environment is actually good you don't even think about it right and then lastly your internal internal reputation uh because if people see you that you are trying to build Bridges um overcoming situations that perhaps some people actually do find difficult then your internal reputation goes up and um yeah you maybe offer a promotion or um anything else really um as this has happened to me as well well and I thought it was like wow that's very interesting I I was only doing my job but for some people this overcoming the barrier of communication was a huge huge issue so think about this yeah um and this is particularly useful when you're working with um International people because um I know sometimes it is complicated to communicate with them because perhaps what happens is that um I don't know there must be a cultural barrier or something but at least if you actually make a uh make an effort and know that people like to be talked to you in different ways uh they like maybe they they like writing long emails like as it happens in some cultures in some others they don't like writing emails at all sometimes they prefer lots of examples sometimes they don't prefer examples they prefer a lot of theory and a couple of examples perhaps to illustrate and that's it people like communicating in different ways so just be aware of all this um make an effort and then with an effort everything gets gets better now a little bit of a story time I once was working for this high-profile UK organization managing the Ecommerce campaign the biggest Ecommerce campaign for them in the year the website was not a website per se that shouldn't have been there it should have been migrated a long time ago and what happens is that the developer came over to me and he said to me I consider this website to be a black box because the the setup was terrible there was no documentation and they all thought it was going to break so he said to me if you are going to go inside there and I need to make any changes or freaks anything I'm not going to be able to help you like this I'll finish this story later in the meantime I'm going to give you a little bit of context because I like I like giv knowing the the context of everything because nothing nothing happens in a vacuume really and at the moment it is very exciting isn't it we've got we just don't don't talk about Big Data anymore but it is still there technology uh is Advan advancing we need to learn about uh different programming languages different aspects of SEO etc etc it really is very interesting but on the flip side we also have the uncertainty and ambiguity that actually can bring and that happens in the context of industrial revolutions which is nothing to do with the 18th century St machine is actually happening right now the fourth Industrial Revolution started in 2010 or 2011 depending on the sources that you that you start and that was that was huge that was huge if you remember Big Data not big brother um you will you will you will remember that um everything happened so quickly and it had such a huge impact across every single country or every single industry sector it it was it was huge and we are still and we are still having that 2020 for some propelled the fifth Industrial Revolution which is all to do with collaboration and the collaboration because the previous um advancements actually made it possible for um new business development U sorry business models to be set up and uh so that people could actually work from different places for example and so that we had uh we had to collaborate with with people from different nationalities different cultures who are actually um living based in different places Sweden Bangkok Italy etc etc but collaboration in Tech has never been um uh has never been um you know something strange we all know about jira atlassian has about last time I checked 45% of market share so you you that that will give you an idea idea we have a s even artificial intelligence is being thought or proposed as a um collaboration tool so that you can get um you can get enough information quickly so that um certain um certain um um Industries can actually Advanced and if you are not technical enough or you don't have enough time there's always people like David M who has made it possible to for people to understand uh that they can actually get a prompt for marketing um so you can have a look at this however there is also what we call digital fragmentation and the digital fragmentation is to do with two things one is regulation regulation which is not making it possible for the free flow of data and talents that we need at this moment in time in this um in this uh business setup in this business times that we are living in um and so what happens is that we are having to cope with different situations and regulations are so restrictive sometimes they are unfair they're being made by people who don't know about technology nor about data etc etc and that is causing um or threatening Innovation according to S and the second bit is um us having to learn about python about our about the why said there's so many things that we need to learn it kind of makes us think sometimes well will I be able to actually hold my job within the next five years if I learn python right now or anything else really um so um sometimes if you want to be if you want if you are an SEO on offside Theo you want to be technical SEO you have to learn industry standard tools and um all those tools actually do change all the time because how many iterations have we had of side bulb or screaming frog already you know um so but it's just it brings a little bit of uncertainty um um to the to to our lives as well and we need to learn to to to um to um to to navigate that both of us seos and Engineering teams so what I I'm getting at is that everything is fantastic it's it is uh it's great um we can learn there is so much excitement and we can monetize from all of these things but um it can actually bring in poer syndrome or even conflict and if we bring if there is conflict when we are conflicted there is no communication because our communication skills go out of the window rather easily um one of the causes of project failure is lack of communication yeah or conflict actually yeah as well so we have to be very careful with this because if we are interested to actually deliver a project we need to be able to deliver it because otherwise our jobs may be on the line we have to be really really careful with this and our credibility as well and again um communication is actually part of the reasons why sometimes um projects do not get delivered um we don't really we are not transparent enough we don't know or people other people don't know what we are trying to do etc etc so again it's true foros and Engineering teams but also there is this bid I was referring to earlier about um about uh perception and reputation of our work I know um you know this tweet here is not referring to the last announcement of chbt on May the 13th is referring to an earlier announcement people were starting to think that perhaps they wouldn't have a job and that is a terrible thought terrible feeling as well yeah it's really it really is very important that um that we are we are learned how to navigate all these situation and also um I know that it and developers are normally called in to to to fix printer jamming head printers they're evil but this is what it is now for seos it's exactly the same situation and now we are having a lot of trouble a lot of time we are having um yeah it's it's not the best of times because we can't really seem to be getting at clients anymore they are becoming a lot more skeptical and lot more negative and so we are having a a lot of trouble to explain why we need to do SEO why we need to do localization why we need to do XY Z regarding um regarding everything that we have been doing so far and they need to continue doing that because you know when you look at Google and see all these um wrong results the serps you kind of think well is it worth it and also where is my traffic what is my traffic with all these filters and we also have um AI overview for May the 13 the 14th before it was called something else and the results were slightly different and we were kind of nervous as to when it was going to be rolled out outside the States to Europe for example I think somebody said that they had seen an instance of AI overviews in the UK a couple of weeks ago so maybe it is closer but also we are having to learn about this and also clients are possible clients and intern internal colleagues as well are getting wind of the situation of with perplexity and everything so if we've got perplexity maybe we don't need an SEO and that is terrible like I said it's it's just partly a reputational issue to be perfectly honest because just like the rest of marketing we are we seem to be unable to sell ourselves like we can promote your Brands and do that very well and monetize but we seem to be unable to actually do the same with our own services with our own work and that is a contradict ition contradiction in terms but it does happen at all times and a reason a very good reason for us not to be able to get internal buying enough to um to implement and Implement promptly and quickly um so now I I ran I ran a um Round Table a couple of years ago I wanted to find out from CTO developers products etc etc what their herles the most common herles were because it is important it was important to me to see whether I could actually see common ground in there and and well these are the most frequent frequent ones do they sound familiar to you my 5-year-old neighbor can actually do this better than you I can't seem to find this um but neither can you right what is it explaining to me in um in English plain English pleas cannot understand anything could you please do it now could you please do this now do it do it do it because I have no idea what I'm asking you but just just do it because um people are pressing me yeah and similar this is a I mean I've got you've got many deadlines as well but so do they and they just don't care just do it the same for seos absolutely the same for seos every single one of them and you can add more to the list if you want to uh and it is terrible really because when you think about it collaborating is good because we can work together on the products that we are um that we are working on websites and mobile applications monetize from them make them visible make make them appealing not pretty we are the coloring in Department um but yeah I mean this is this is what collaboration does and it is really useful for our own companies and for ourselves as well because it's more satisfying really collaborating than not because we don't really want at the end of the day to publish anything um that is not going to be useful that people are not going to find interesting to use or easy to use right um because you know it's our own professional professional uh thoughts really that everybody likes having a cute impression or of everybody else so this is what we call cono law so um sometimes we see websites or applications that are not looking good who cannot be um used properly just like this one anyone who has been in the UK who UK based um will remember Kat Kidston and I remember thinking oh my God what is happening with the localization of this website and everything else to be perfectly honest and it's not to do with um the the skill set any any technical skill set or anything it's just that the implementation was not fantastic and um and the reason for that is that um PWC were auditing then but then the impression from outside was not the best and we don't want to get that right now so what what what do we need you to do from our our point of view as an seos we need you to help us doing a fantastic solid technical implementation because no matter no matter how difficult things are on the servs on the search engine resols Pages no matter no matter what happens with this generative search AI overviews you name it we still need a fantastic implementation because otherwise our websites and mobile applications cannot survive and this is this is a fact yeah and also we need advice and support because we don't know what you do know it's as simple as that it's not it's not our it's not our job it's not it's not something that we do for a living but you do and there is this overlap between SEO technical SEO and um development and this is where we actually meet Middle Ground we do definitely need that some examples up time accessibility really important the technical aspects of accessibility is it's actually your back not ours but we kind of work together so that we know what to implement and why really some examples some examples website migrations particularly the the two riskiest examples servers um and S platforming we definitely need you there so that we can do you know the just the URL R directions uh cyber security and uh things like technical implementations as well um Integrations with other with other tools um just imagine somebody who's been using soree and wants to wants to use um W Commerce and WordPress from now onwards and they are not acquainted with that so how do they know how would they know what to do if you don't advise them on technical limitations for example yeah this is just a few examples you can add more to the list because and this is really important seos can also to help building both websites and um mobile applications this is what we do for a living and this is also a big blocker that we have found with you as well so you kind of think oh we are more marketing and we are marketing but it's more the technical side of things and um yeah there an overlap but this is what we do so now what has worked to for me to be able to um collaborate we need to communicate with transparency and uh show good willingness and everything but we also need to have some compassion compassion just thinking about you know people have different deadlines uh people like to be talked to in different ways as well in the appropriate way you don't really want to you don't really want to be talked to in a in a way uh in a certain way so what would you actually talk to them to other people in a in a different way in a in a bad way way right it isn't easy but it is necessary that we actually do that because again our jobs may be on the line if that website or mobile application is not exactly good and and our companies cannot monetize from them so this is a suggested work workflow that I have been um using I have been following of course you have to adapt to the situation but first things first find out who you need to talk to in the first place in some companies and this is me talking to seos at the moment in some companies um the main person uh looking after development is called business analyst in other companies a a project manager so you just find out who that person may be have a have a CH chat with them agree a workflow meaning maybe just regular meetings perhaps not every day or maybe not even every week because it's it's it's boring and there might be nothing to say but maybe after a couple of days I me just uh uh just attending to standups and meetings so that people can be on the same page and I know this may sound boring but after a while you just kind of do this naturally it's just about being aware of what the other person is actually doing and why they are doing it uh because um we need to tell you Asos that we need to make some requirements um so that uh websites and mobile applications can actually be visible and can actually work and can meet accessibility standards and usability standards etc etc now what do you think can go wrong here absolutely everything absolutely everything particularly the feedback loop and this is really really bad because um you normally need to aim at having a fantastic feedback loop so that um it's positive it's in a um you know it's positive that you actually H get to hear what what they are up to if there are any issues um security issues for example that you need to that you need to be aware of so that you don't actually go with more requirements or chasing them all the time right but this is especially this part that actually requires a lot more ATT attention because it's just like with any project if you start a project you start with the planning you do the requirements etc etc but you do not Implement them then you have nothing nothing absolutely nothing and you cannot monetize it's really important that um the implementation and the correct Q&A is is actually being done and of course yeah the um the the feedback the feedback aspect of it because it's actually satis fine from a personal perspective too think about it like that so yeah like I said before communication involving people from the very beginning do not hold things back uh why would you just be open transparent um have as many meetings with them as you as they prefer some people some people do not like emailing it's as simple as that they don't like emailing and they would barely um look at emails so just um you know idea um idea something else um some other type of collaboration but feedback look feedback loop on both sides super important because again we do this is what we do for a living it really is very important that you understand that we are marketing but we build websites and um mobile applications so just a few takeaways collaboration improves your uh the products that we are talking about the end product they work atmosphere so that you everybody actually works fine and you can have uh the time to and the opportunity to um to bring up new ideas or concerns something that is happening because there is no free flow of information things are actually quite complicated it really it really is very very complicated uh the industry is changing all the time so just think about this and also lastly um your own ego it's is actually a lot easier if you collaborate and build Bridges rather than burning them yeah you can learn from each other as well remember that everybody is coming from different cultures it means that everybody will have a different approach to technology a different approach to SEO we'll see things from a um from another point of view perhaps um they will be more aware about certain regulations perhaps uh they will be more aware of certain other ways of doing things which also comes with experience with experience but then if somebody else has already had experience in your team why not yeah um yeah just be aware of how how they actually communicate how people like being communicated too so um if you have noticed I have tried to do a bit of both things that I mentioned earlier Theory and examples um so that um so that is easier to understand to um for Everyone by one everyone and then I I'll finish the story so um it started off a slightly tough for me but it was mostly because most people in there had got wi of the um troubles with the website and they just thought oh my goodness if anybody actually touches that it's going to break it didn't break at all I actually proved to them and again their trust after doing so that nothing could actually break that easily uh but it's also that the implementation was really really shy um and also the developer ended up confiding in me with his with some problems particularly one when a world line had not sent him a line of code that we need to fix the payment path the all important payment path yeah so we actually worked together on that I helped him out and this is how this is how things actually ended really everybody was everybody was quite happy because again it doesn't always work but it we need to try uh one time when it didn't work for me was when um our common CL common clients was actually uh difficult difficult to get hold of so the developer and myself were having a very a conversation every every now and then but I was seeing that he was not implementing the stuff that he had agreed to implement particularly because we were preparing to for a migration so I was especially nervous I'm biting our my biting my nails really and he found out that I found out that he was not talking to the to the um um to the to the client to to his client and to my client despite being on the same building but then the client was not around it was really difficult complic and complicated situation we managed to sort it out but it was mostly because we actually stuck together and that was really satisfying as well from a personal perspective because think about the complexity of the um of the ecosystem of the digital ecosystem with things changing all the time from a technical perspective from a regulatory perspective cultures are different as well if we do we do not actually make the effort then we will actually fall behind and from a professional perspective it might not be useful to us anymore so um I've been monano International SEO digital strategist um if you have any questions a bet or if I can actually have any business here and and everything just get in touch with me ask me around I will be around for a for a few minutes uhas um anything thank you so much we can see yes I think we can see if there's a few questions from the audience we have some time so if you have one raise your hand we have a mic Runner he's really fast um to bring the mic to yes we have a question on the right you have to answer them I don't you you answer all the questions you sure [Laughter] yeah uh you mentioned perplexity um I think I think perplexity is pretty great but have have you kind of noticed a shift in um the traffic that you see as an SEO person that suggests that maybe more people are using relying on things like perplexity rather than making their own searches just let perplexity do it for them so could you just have you have you noticed any difference in the kind of traffic that that that you get through websites that some of it's coming from like AI tools like like plexy well um traffic it's slightly it's slightly unrelated to this but traffic does change all the time so we are not getting the same amount of traffic at all times to every single website it has never happened really because of a variety of of issues really seasonality etc etc but also because yeah Google sometimes change competition changes etc etc what I was referring to is that is the fact that the changes in technology can actually affect the way clients internal and and U external perceive the perceive SEO perceive technology because at the end of the day everybody wants to sell and they are um more keen on yeah just just selling and they think okay more traffic more sales which is actually is not the case it's not usually the case because more traffic if it is qualified more qualified traffic then fantastic um but yeah I mean it it does it does change all the time it's um I think I think our job is basically making sure that people are in line with uh developments things that may happen um so that um they understand the need to keep on doing what we are doing um but also yeah uh as I said um traffic change changes over time does that answer your question I see a thumbs up that's a good sign all right we do have time for one more question if there's any now's your chance and otherwise you'll be around the entire conference right I will perfect so then uh people can find you in the hallway and come to you with all their questions yes definitely before sending you off I have to jump off stage quickly because we have a very special gift from the organizing team to thank you very much for your talk um I'm not going to spoil it but I'm sure they all want to know what you're getting so they'll find you later to ask come find me but it's it's definitely something especially for uh for from Italy and it will be very useful when you come back to Italy I see so thank you very much for your presentation uh thank you everyone for attending also at home thank you very much uh we'll have a short break in this room we we'll have a short break in this room and then be back uh in about 10 minutes for our last speaker before lunch, SEO and Development. How to Avoid Friction, YouTube, 01ka7ecgx9yvgabm3xhe5yf5rc.