This Week in WordPress #320  ## Metadata - Author: [[WP Builds]] - Full Title: This Week in WordPress #320 - Category: #articles - Document Note: Summary for [This Week in WordPress #320](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSEC2KE5bT0) by [Merlin AI](https://merlin.foyer.work/) WordPress Weekly Roundup: New Year Kickoff, Panel Introductions, and Community Insights from Episode 320 of WP Builds. [00:03]([00:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSEC2KE5bT0&t=3)) Introduction to Episode #320 of This Week in WordPress. - The hosts greet viewers and wish them a Happy New Year as the show returns. - Michelle Fette introduces herself and shares her extensive involvement in the WordPress community. [04:10]([04:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSEC2KE5bT0&t=250)) Discussion of winter weather experiences and challenges in the UK. - Tim shares his experience of being snowed in during a beautiful but challenging week in West Yorkshire. - The group compares snow-related difficulties faced in the UK versus the Northern United States, highlighting differences in weather preparedness. [08:54]([08:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSEC2KE5bT0&t=534)) The hosts enjoyed each other's company and shared lighthearted moments. - Nathan humorously expressed his lack of singing talent while appreciating compliments about his voice. - The group engaged in playful banter about their Yorkshire connections and the importance of audience interaction. [11:00]([11:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSEC2KE5bT0&t=660)) Returning to the show and engaging with the audience during winter walks. - The host expresses gratitude for continued viewer engagement despite the show's temporary absence. - Audience members share their winter experiences and temperatures from various locations. [15:08]([15:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSEC2KE5bT0&t=908)) Discussion on writing a book and setting attainable goals. - The speaker signed up for a Udemy course on writing books but feels it's not the best tool for improvement. - They invested in an accountability coach to ensure they finish their novel by year-end while discussing the difference between goals and resolutions. [17:05]([17:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSEC2KE5bT0&t=1025)) Avoiding resolutions, embracing spontaneity, while dreaming of writing a novel. - The speaker prefers not to set New Year's resolutions or goals to avoid feeling pressured and disappointed. - They humorously share their long-term struggle with writing a novel, while others express aspirations of writing children's books. [20:47]([20:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSEC2KE5bT0&t=1247)) Updates on WordPress podcasts and accessibility discussions. - The podcast features a new show with accessibility expert Joe Dolson, analyzing WordPress sites for accessibility improvements. - In the latest episode, Joe reviews navigation menus and subscription forms, highlighting best practices and common pitfalls. [22:44]([22:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSEC2KE5bT0&t=1364)) Frustrations with recording challenges and positive insights about the block editor. - The recording process faced multiple technical setbacks on various platforms, illustrating the unpredictability of remote podcasting. - Elena's positive view of the block editor contrasts with common accessibility concerns, highlighting diverse user experiences. [26:31]([26:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSEC2KE5bT0&t=1591)) Discussion on volunteering and humor in community contributions. - Michelle explains her volunteer experience as a coordination lead, highlighting the process of stepping forward. - A light-hearted exchange about dad jokes showcases the camaraderie and language challenges within the group. [28:28]([28:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSEC2KE5bT0&t=1708)) Discussion on team changes and contributions in WordPress journalism. - Jeler has been praised for filling the gap left by Sarah Gooding at WP Tavern after her departure. - The future of WP Tavern is uncertain as it may go quiet following recent staffing changes. [32:39]([32:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSEC2KE5bT0&t=1959)) Automattic reduces sponsorship for WordPress due to legal issues. - Automattic will focus its efforts on for-profit projects instead of contributing to the WordPress core. - The company plans to align its commitment levels with WP Engine's changing engagement terms. [34:42]([34:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSEC2KE5bT0&t=2082)) Concerns rise for Automattic employees facing reassignments and job uncertainty. - Internal communication at Automattic is crucial to reassure employees during ongoing restructuring. - Reassigned employees may struggle with new job descriptions, impacting their work on WordPress core. [38:27]([38:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSEC2KE5bT0&t=2307)) Community engagement is essential for the future of WordCamp events. - Continued participation from individuals outside of Automattic is vital to maintain momentum. - Core development work persists despite changes in Automattic's staffing and focus. [40:09]([40:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSEC2KE5bT0&t=2409)) Automatic prioritizes security updates using logged hours from contributors. - Remaining hours allocated by Automatic will focus on security and addressing critical updates. - Contributors can log hours through their WordPress.org accounts, with multiple companies supporting community efforts. [44:17]([44:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSEC2KE5bT0&t=2657)) Collaboration and decision-making are crucial for positive project outcomes in WordPress. - Reducing hours may initially hinder progress, but can lead to positive changes if contributors step up. - Effective collaboration requires lifting restrictions on leadership to allow contributors to make decisions freely. [46:12]([46:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSEC2KE5bT0&t=2772)) Discussion on opportunities from team changes and skepticism about security focus. - Local sports team injuries open doors for new talent, reflecting broader themes in WordPress community. - Concerns raised about Automatic's commitment to security improvements, with a focus on simplification of code. [50:27]([50:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSEC2KE5bT0&t=3027)) WordPress's sustainability team disbanded, raising concerns about future stability. - The abrupt shutdown of the sustainability team has left many agencies struggling to adapt. - A previous discussion highlighted the team's broader focus on job sustainability, not just performance improvements. [52:25]([52:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSEC2KE5bT0&t=3145)) Patch Stack rejected as a WordCamp Europe 2025 sponsor due to contribution concerns. - The WordPress Community team highlighted that Patch Stack's contributions did not meet the expectations for sponsorship. - Matt Mullenweg responded, acknowledging the unsatisfactory communication and pointing out inaccuracies in the rejection reasoning. [56:23]([56:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSEC2KE5bT0&t=3383)) Concerns arise over sponsor eligibility and contributions at WordCamps. - The opacity of contribution requirements leads to questions about sponsorship eligibility for small businesses. - The impact of potential rules may affect speaker and attendee participation in WordCamps. [58:22]([58:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSEC2KE5bT0&t=3502)) Discussion on the challenges of local sponsorship for WordCamp events. - Local sponsors may not contribute beyond financial support, raising questions about their value in WordCamp sponsorship. - There appears to be uncertainty in the rules and processes for securing local and regional sponsorships compared to flagship events. [1:02:36]([1:02:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSEC2KE5bT0&t=3756)) Excitement for community-driven events beyond formal WordCamp rules. - Participants expressed enthusiasm for self-organized gatherings promoting organic conversation and collaboration. - The discussion highlighted the resilience of the community and the importance of kindness in fostering connections. [1:04:40]([1:04:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSEC2KE5bT0&t=3880)) WordPress Community Collective becomes a California nonprofit to support open source. - The WPCC aims to eliminate financial and logistical barriers to contribute to open source projects. - Membership benefits include tax-deductible contributions and the ability to operate without certain taxes. [1:08:17]([1:08:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSEC2KE5bT0&t=4097)) WordCamp Europe announces speaker and sponsor calls amid organization changes. - The organization has a new donation model through Open Collective, allowing contributions to specific projects. - WordCamp Europe 2025 has commenced speaker applications and is evaluating sponsorship interest to gauge community sentiment. [1:10:01]([1:10:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSEC2KE5bT0&t=4201)) Automatic integrates Studio app with WordPress.com for easier local development. - The Studio app now allows syncing with WordPress.com, enabling local development and seamless updates to the WP.com cloud. - Ian Stewart, WP.com product lead, will discuss further details in an upcoming live stream, providing insights into this new integration. [1:13:38]([1:13:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSEC2KE5bT0&t=4418)) A new image optimization plugin is released and praised for its design. - The plugin, Edge Images, enhances image performance using Cloudflare and IMS services. - Discussion includes the importance of shipping plugins, with a comparison to writing and publishing books. [1:15:37]([1:15:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSEC2KE5bT0&t=4537)) Debate on embracing uniqueness in WordPress theme design. - Nick Hamy advocates for 'quirky' designs in WordPress themes, sparking discussions on accessibility. - The perception of 'weirdness' varies between the US and UK, affecting its acceptance in design. [1:20:00]([1:20:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSEC2KE5bT0&t=4800)) The balance between creativity and accessibility in web design is crucial. - Many websites exhibit similar design metaphors, leading to a perception of the internet as uninteresting. - Creativity in design should not compromise accessibility; artistic elements must still be functional for all users. [1:21:58]([1:21:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSEC2KE5bT0&t=4918)) Cultural interpretations of the word 'weird' vary significantly between the US and UK. - In the US, 'weird' is often seen positively, linked to creativity and experimentation, unlike its negative connotations in the UK. - The discussion highlights how other terms, like 'hell' and 'crap,' have different levels of acceptance and power in American versus British English. [1:25:40]([1:25:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSEC2KE5bT0&t=5140)) Discussion on new tools and resources for DNS management and animation. - Dayve Foy launches the 'No Stress DNS' course, simplifying DNS configuration for users. - Easing Wizard is introduced as a tool for creating animated effects in web design. [1:27:29]([1:27:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSEC2KE5bT0&t=5249)) Introduction of an image compression service and concerns about data breaches. - The service called 'Squish Do' compresses various image formats, making them smaller and more efficient. - Discussion on significant data breaches in 2024, highlighting Snowflake's compromise of major customer accounts. [1:31:26]([1:31:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSEC2KE5bT0&t=5486)) Data sharing has serious implications for personal security and livelihood. - Increased awareness is needed on how much personal data is shared unintentionally, affecting privacy. - Issues like credit rating damage from identity theft can lead to long-term consequences in daily life. [1:33:36]([1:33:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSEC2KE5bT0&t=5616)) The team expresses gratitude and humorously reflects on the episode. - Discussion of a clever subscription cancellation method sparked light-hearted concerns about user experience. - Acknowledgment of viewer comments and appreciation for co-hosts, with a promise to return next week. Key Insights for [This Week in WordPress #320](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSEC2KE5bT0) by [Merlin AI](https://merlin.foyer.work/) **Episode Overview** - The episode celebrates the new year and marks the 320th episode of "This Week in WordPress," where the hosts discuss various topics within the WordPress community. - The panel includes regular contributors Michelle Fette, Tim Nash, and Cory Mass, who share personal updates and reflections on the holiday season. - The conversation begins with light banter before shifting focus to significant developments in the WordPress ecosystem. **New Year's Resolutions and Goals** - The hosts discuss their New Year’s resolutions, highlighting diverse approaches like writing a book or setting attainable goals. - Michelle emphasizes the importance of goals over resolutions, advocating for actionable objectives that are more likely to be fulfilled. - The conversation reflects a collective intention to contribute positively to the WordPress community through personal growth and professional development. **WordPress 6.8 Release Planning** - The release squad for WordPress 6.8 has been announced, with Michelle Fette as one of the two coordinators. - The episode details the roles of various team leads and outlines the timeline for the release, including beta versions and the final release date. - The importance of community engagement and volunteer contributions to the WordPress project is emphasized, especially in light of the recent changes in Automatic's sponsorship. **Concerns Over Automatic’s Contributions** - The episode addresses Automatic's decision to recalibrate its sponsored contributions to WordPress, focusing on for-profit projects amid ongoing legal disputes. - Concerns are raised about the potential impact of reduced contributions from Automatic on the WordPress core development and community initiatives. - The discussion highlights the need for transparency and collaboration within the community to ensure continued progress despite changes in sponsorship dynamics. **Sustainability Team Disbandment** - The hosts discuss the abrupt disbandment of the WordPress Sustainability Team by Matt Mullenweg, sparking backlash from community members. - The conversation underlines the importance of sustainability in open-source projects and the implications of removing dedicated teams that focus on long-term viability. - The panel expresses worries about the future of sustainability initiatives and the need for active community involvement. **Emerging Trends and Tools** - The episode highlights new tools and plugins in the WordPress ecosystem, including AI services and local development environments that enhance user experience. - A focus on innovative content creation is encouraged, with references to resources that can help developers explore creative possibilities in theme design and plugin functionality. - The discussion serves as a reminder of the continuous evolution within the WordPress community and the importance of staying engaged with new technologies and methodologies. **Audience Engagement** - The panel acknowledges the active participation of viewers through comments and questions, fostering a sense of community. - They encourage listeners to share their thoughts and experiences related to the discussed topics, promoting an interactive dialogue. - The hosts express gratitude for the audience's support, reinforcing the idea that community engagement is vital for the growth and resilience of the WordPress ecosystem. - Document Tags: [[wordpress]] - Summary: Join us LIVE for the 'This Week in #WordPress' show. It's fun, and we'd love your comments! Starts at 2pm UK time. https://wpbuilds.com/live Join Nathan Wrigley, Michelle Frechette, Tim Nash, Corey Maass. - URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSEC2KE5bT0 e [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] hello hello hello hello happy New Year It is Well into almost the second week of the new year but we haven't done it this week in WordPress since 2025 arrived so happy New Year um it is episode number 320 of this week in WordPress and uh nothing has happened since we were last uh on the air there's literally nothing to talk about so thank you yeah we'll see you next week on this week in Word byebye uh no there's plenty to talk about um and as always joined by a very fine panel firstly let's go through the go around the houses firstly over there Michelle frette is co-hosting today how you doing Michelle I'm good how are you yeah good yeah Cory it's not as easy as you think is it yeah just yeah you got it easy Tim you got it easy um yeah I'm good thank you how are you how was your New Year Christmasy things yeah everything everything was great I've put together probably six Lego sets oh is that the thing yeah every year Lego okay well only because people have discovered I like it so I received quite a few gifts yes yeah we there's always gifts which come out and Lego was one of them until my children finally said can we stop with the Lego a couple of years ago and uh sad a tear in my eye we no longer do the Lego but anyway here we go nothing happing you Nathan yeah I know let's do Michelle's bio here we Michelle fette is the director of community engagement for Stella WP at liquid web in addition to the work there Michelle is the podcast Barista at WP Coffee Talk co-founder of underrepresented in Tech also the creator of WP speakers WP career Pages the executive director at post status and she also co-hosts the wp motivate podcast she's also an author frequent organizer and speaker at word press events and lives outside Rochester New York where she is Keen to take photographs of nature if you want to sum it all up you can go to this website meet michelle. online and you can find out everything there thank you adding one more thing but we're going to talk about that a little bit later oh yeah okay yeah we'll Chuck that in as well um and let's go let's go clockwise I think that was clockwise that's anti I don't know anyway that way we're gonna go to Tim next how you doing Tim I can do that one easy too yeah yeah yeah oh Cory's got it Cory has got the memo now I had to think about it though yeah point the wrong way yeah what I tend to do is I just point the finger a tiny bit and then other way I came I came up real slow the entire of Michelle I was there going now if I could just put like yeah well look at that Tim is joined joining us from a snowy West Yorkshire it's lovely out there that's very nice well it was um obviously uh we've been snowed in for the last week so on the plus side it's very beautiful on the downside uh you know that point where the Christmas break is over and you're like right child you're going to school today oh thank God oh you're not oh you snowed in dear Canadians when the UK people get snowed in it's because there is snow like the mere hint of snow is all it takes so for those that live in the Northern United States like me and Corey how much snow does it take to snow you in cuz here it's about four four feet of snow and we get like about three and a half come down over the last over the feet or inches feet oh that's a lot okay but uh to be fair it's not been there uh the Gen lots of snow is dead easy you know lots of snow snow plows easy solution it's the been a combination of snow plus ice plus idiots yeah yeah this combination is what keeps has kept us TR that that well the ice is is the is the hard part the idiots makes it just the cream on top snow plus ice plus idiots that only ID and obviously you've got to go slightly up the hill bend on the hill and come slightly down so where did the person parked their car right on the edge coming down I I went past it the other day and it's just Dent Dent Dent it must have been hit at half a dozen times I'll tell you what the problem as well Michelle is because we because snow is now a thing that's not really a feature of our lives in the UK when I was a kid it really was reliably going to snow every year but now it's not so I I think the in the investment from a government point of view it must be one of those decisions like is it worth it is it not worth it is it worth so there's no investment for that kind of infrastructure so when it does happen everything falls to Pieces but they'd get accused of wasting money if they spent it and we had a summer where there was no snow so um there you go that's my political analysis for the what's that you just said summer with no snow yeah well we I'm not well um let's let's let's let Tim do his bio because there's no way that I'm doing this Tim what am I even going to introduce this or are you just going to do it no well I the whole idea is that you're meant to do it no no there's no way I'm singing's the fun in this show right okay make you sing and do silly things okay I will do it but I want everybody danced on your show Nathan yeah this is all right I I'm sucking it up so Tim wants me to sing his bio in the style of what's that thing called a c Shanty so in this you can go for the Wellman which is a damn okay here we go right apologies to everybody with functioning ears there once was a man from Yorkshire land who s word press with a steady hand snow comes down but he snug inside Tim Nash do I can't do that Tim nash. co.uk on his online guide sometimes it gets an update not nearly often enough otim comes to keep your site safe secure from hacks he will do site reviews if you pay him lots of do on WP builds he shares insights and makes Nathan sing very silly songs it is the lowest point of my life be clear I did I did send him a a sound wave with me singing it so he knows it's a very bad idea yeah yeah I think you and I are on on an equal footing no I am joking that was a lot of fun thank you very much we like two things though yeah one you have a lovely voice Nathan but two don't quit your day job no thank you you're right you're right uh no I think that's fair I never was going to be a singer I'm awfully good at singing in the bath but I'm also awfully good at receiving horrible comments from all members of the family you have a lovely voice yeah well thank you I appreciate it well that was fun thank you so much Corey wants me to do his I follow that up in the theme of mime I have to mime it no I don't no I don't I'm just gonna read Cory's how are you doing Corey because it's because it's six letters did you notice that as soon as Nathan started singing we all did this yeah is like the body language of like you're covering your mouth and embarrassment right yeah it was almost like you were all three of us took a sip the key though was that did you actually take a sip because I just held it up it was in my mouth and it went wrong I did never never let it be said that I don't cause vomit um right here we go Cory Mass Cory Mass founder creator of OMG IMG wearer of Yorkshire t-shirts and a WordPress freelance developer look at that it says IR IR T it's nearly there Yorkshire T so that means that three of us are kind of adjacent to Yorkshire I'm in Yorkshire Tim's in Yorkshire kind of Corey wants to be in Yorkshire and there's only Michelle and she's in new Yorkshire is in my Yorkshire look at you anyway I've got to get to the comments because we've had loads coming in I really appreciate it anybody who's uh who's given us a comment really appreciate that if you want to do that by the way the quickest way to do that is to go here go to WP build.com this was the perfect moment for Corey to start pointing but he missed that Quee look yeah he's smiling that'll do yeah um wpuld.you friends relations and colleagues over there as well okay here we go let's see what we've got we have taco joining us he says hello hello hello uh hello Happy New Year from James thank you very much Cammy reached out to me last week when the show wasn't on to say where the heck's the show and uh so here we are we're back uh routine change I'm on a walk outside and it's cold in Seattle good to see you all can't believe you're doing watching this whilst you're out on a walk that's incredible thank you so much influence WP hello from Charlotte North Carolina where it's 33 degrees in in our degrees that's a really nice temperature I'm guessing in yours it's not too much uh friendly web design so this will be Dave I got myself uh from my wife a Star Wars at set for Christmas is that not at at at at I thought so my seven-year-old helped me finish it a few days ago yeah I was gonna say it was sort of kind of bought for the child was it Dave but it ended up being you going on there happy New Year everybody says Taco Tammy list is joining us good afternoon we're gonna mention your name in a bit and also Taco a bit later Peach is joining us I'm maybe in Spain I'm not entirely sure but there you go your clock is the wrong way what clock my clock I don't have a clock when you were going clockwise versus counterclockwise oh yeah it was actually the right way but I think my video is flipped I'm just sticking with that happy New Year says Marcus from Florida uh Patricia is joining us thank you very much uh joining Camy on a walk this morning from thousands of miles away 12 degrees Centigrade ah we dream of 12 degrees Centigrade over here in the Netherlands we measure snow in millimeters centimeters at best but it rarely ever happens yeah we're mostly like that I'm quite amazed that Tim has had three feet of snow gosh the comments are just coming in really thick and fast send help building I that's great send help building idea stuff snow has finally gone from abdine Scotland I bought us I bought the most basic Ikea thing about five days ago no got it wrong like I was that guy that doesn't read the instru I could see from the first picture what this is supposed to look like you know when you get like 10 steps in and then you're almost completed and you go oh this is backwards oh yeah in this case all the sh anyway it doesn't matter uh that was amazing I guess you're talking about singing you are a good liar thank you very much uh Shanty made it worth getting up this morning oh at a a atst is the two-legged one I had one of those you pushed the little button at the back and it used to it wasn't Lego I had the actual toy hard to say though is it like yeah that's really difficult to say when I was a kid I had a Star Wars gun right it was about this big black plastic thing Star Wars gun anyway the other day not the other day it was about two years ago I saw it advertised on eBay for $10,000 oh my I know and I thought that's a bit cheeky coming around my house stealing it and advertising it for $10,000 but anyway I don't have it anymore it probably just went in the bin but there you go uh I think that's it I think that's it uh yeah okay let's uh let's start what we're supposed to be doing which is talking about word pressy stuff so first thing to say is I am G to read out the bits and pieces that I've got this week I am not going to compel anybody on this show to say anything they don't want to say uh so guess just be very clear right from the outset you know don't get involved in stuff that you don't want to get involved with you you know me anyway I'm not here to put trip wires in your path um but feel free to contribute you wish to my yeah thank you thank you my job is just to say the things and see what lands okay right firstly let's do New Year's resolutions got nothing to do with WordPress sorry got any New Year resolutions I'm going to go first for the 10th year in a row I'm going to write a book this year I've been highly successful at it for the previous nine years I've written no words at all but this year is going to be different uh and no I'll tell you why I know it's going to be different because I signed up for a course on udemy about how to write a book and uh that's that's all it's honestly it's like prevarication you know when you when you buy the tool because you think the tool is going to make you better at something was just no and I didn't even the question is what what kind of book oh now I couldn't Ral that no uh fiction children children's fiction I could you the plot but I would have to you know I'd have to come around to your house and Silence You Forever good plot for children oh okay yeah that book is not I know where this is going I actually just invested in an accessibility coach to make sure that I finished my novel by the end of this year oh accessibility or accountability I think you said I I meant accountability accountability coach yeah it will be accessible though what happens though what happens if you just go to the accountability coach and just basically say I haven't done it oh she's gonna whip my oh really you're GNA get in okay so she's also one of my best friends so she will that's really good that's very good yeah me it's your business too don't get me wrong I'm not just paying some person to no no but that's great I think that's a really good idea anyway that's my New Year's resolution I know it won't happen already but that is my resolution uh Michelle you got me uh what's this book I don't I don't have resolutions I have goals first of all because I think a goal is something that's more attainable and a resolution is something you regret not completing but um but yeah I'm excited about that and and you should if you come if I get selected to speak at word Camp Europe this year then you should come to my session because it's about how to turn your blog into a book which is what I did before so I do have a book that's been published okay I like the pivot if I write a successful Blog then it I can just turn it into a book okay let's talk later we'll talk later yeah thank you thank you yeah uh Tim any New Year's resolutions or goals uh see I don't make New Year's resolutions and I try to avoid goals because that way I'll be stuck to them and I'll feel really bad when I fail so what is better to do is just to wander aimlessly through life and hope that things will work out for the best and I will continue to do this I've done this very successfully for many many years and I will continue on this path it sounds like prevarication to me um but I would like to say that um after this call I will be moving on to chapter one of my novel really you're writing a book as what the heck no no to be fair I've been trying to write chapter one of my novel for about [Music] 403 44 years okay so you're like me only you're much better at prevaricating than I am okay you are the you are the master I am just merely the the pupil wait 43 44 years what are you like 65 yeah he started when he was like I just start very young [Laughter] obviously Cory anything that you're do hoping to do this you this is a loaded deck okay so first of all uh I dreamt the idea for a kids book like six weeks ago and it's been sitting at the bottom of my to-do list so now you're inspiring me that oh maybe I need to like take the idea and plug it into Ai and let it write the book for me children's book even thought about that you know bad will this be when at the end of the year the only person who hasn't published a book from the four panel of four is Nathan honestly I was just thinking when we finish this show you guys should all book on for this first episode in 2026 and we'll ask that same question and yeah it'll be me the two of you the three of you sorry will all be successful novelists and I won't have written a bluming word um did you start writing your novel in Nursery Tim no no I I started but I certainly started thinking about it which is let's face it I haven't started writing the novel I've only been thinking about it since Nursery yeah yeah well okay that's good enough no I've got a solid idea I really think it's got legs I just just need to discover what those legs are uh and and Tim was there I need a nappy change a bottle and somebody to write down this idea and they did that was the problem and you know that one and good idea and you have to recreate it yeah Tammy Tammy's going to be my accessibility accountability person she's going to uh she's she says she's GNA write two okay if I write one you're G to write two oh that's tempting Tammy's already written two oh well that's no no no no we can't have that Tammy you've got to go through some drudgery this year it can't be the stuff you've already written there's no accountability there at all uh best advice is to make it habit I know I know yeah that's what I should do is just write a few words each day that's right everybody has a book inside gosh I hope not um we should all write might have two yeah after all those mince pies over Christmas I feel like I've got like the works of Shakespeare inside me uh there you go that's today's title The Works of Shakespeare inside me right come on Wrigley it's 25 past the hour and you still haven't done anything to do with WordPress at all but that's why this show is fun here we go WP build.com this is our URL you can see that we are brought to you by GoDaddy Pro blue host and omnis thank you very much to those three companies for keeping the lights on over here if you want to keep updated with what we do why not put your email in that little box and hit the Subscribe button and we'll send you a couple of emails each week one to do with this when it's produced we record it on a Monday like we're doing now and then we put it out as a podcast episode tomorrow so You' get an email tomorrow and then you'd also get an episode uh notification on Thursday when we put the episode out then as well so why not put your email address in there and join many many others who uh get that notification one thing that we've been doing uh over the past few months uh and we're on episode three of this is a show with Joe Dolson Joe is an accessibility expert in the WordPress space and we've been checking out some sites from the WordPress showcase and he's been taking them uh to pieces if you like from an accessibility point of view not with the Enterprise of you know ridiculing anybody more like look here's what could be improved and on this episode number three uh Joe looks at navigation menus uh and how they can sometimes be wins so he's talking about things that are done well but then he goes on to subscription forms and like subscribing to a newsletter for example and how they can be done badly uh mine didn't come under the microscope but probably would have failed horribly but anyway you can get to that if you go to this archive section on wps.com at the accessibility show archive and uh you can see that we've got episode four coming out in the near future as well and then kind of attached to that but not really because the two weren't together uh I did an episode of The Tavern podcast with Ellena Elena Ellen I do apologize um Elena yeah Elena let's go for there briskin um and Elena thank you Michelle by the way um is has been blind 100% blind since birth and we have a coners a really in honestly profoundly interesting conversation about what it is like for a person who has never been able to see how they managed to navigate the web and and it was really interesting uh the frustrations caused by me trying to record the podcast episode so as an example this platform that we're on now is utterly unusable by somebody who is not cited like everything that could go wrong is wrong and we tried two or three different platforms all of them a complete disaster and then eventually we found one which worked and so we recorded it on that but it was a real it was a real eye opener to me about how my expectation that if you just send somebody a link everything's going to be fine but of course that wasn't the case but go and have a listen uh talking about the challenges and the solutions and actually Elena is very positive about the block editor which Joe was kind of surprised about when I told him he he's often meets people who find the block editor from an accessibility point of view really difficult but Elena has a load of reasons why she likes it so go check that out I'd appreciate that and then last but by no means least I I kind of couldn't find this episode it was episode number 404 I know I had to get it in there um but eventually I did find it it was found and uh we're talking about building blocks with Alan Fuller so go and check that out you can find that in the archive this one WP builds all right okay Ju Just a tech Nathan is the 410 going to be the last episode oh you are good yeah yeah that's probably yeah there's there's no more after that that's the absolute ceiling now I want to get to at least a thousand 999 maybe I'll call it a day then how's that sound yeah 410 I like it um Right Moving on here we go WordPress 6.0 release squad has been announced in case you didn't know WordPress is um you know created by largely volunteers we'll get on to that subject in just a moment whether people are seconded to do that or not and the release squad for 6.8 has been announced and here it is uh the release leaders wait a minute we know somebody on that list we do know somebody on this list can you see a name on there that you're familiar with who do you see goodness Tammy liser Tammy lster she's in the comments that's right yeah yeah um Michelle fette look at that she is one of the two coordinators along with Jeffrey Paul can I ask Michelle what does this involve what does this role mean I am still learning that but it basically is coordinating all the different pieces making sure that everything stays on track and on time and if I could be honest I'm most excited about working alongside Jeffrey um because he and I have never worked on a project together so it's going to be exciting are you kind of hearding cats then is your job to make sure that the human beings are doing what they you know that things are done in a timely way and that coordination happens yeah I I had once um on WP Coffee Talk interviewed um Franchesca Marano who had done this role before and she called herself the shouty lady um in that she was making sure that she was shouting it everybody to get it all done so I now have the the title of shouty Lady after Franchesca has um created that role so yes well appreciate your commitment to that we've got the release lead of Matt obviously the coordination now we know Jeffrey Paul and Michelle frette uh it's on the screen but tech leads is going to be Joe McGill uh Jonathan D Rosas and George mamad dashville I apologize for the pronunciation there triar JB Alis design lead there we go Tammy Lista she's on the call Performance lead Felix ants we've got a video from him later and the test lead is Kupa Nanda and the release timeline is beta one fourth of March candidate release one sorry release candidate one 25th of March and then hopefully shipping generally by the 15th of April does Tim or Cory have anything to add on that or should we just move on I've got a question for Michelle when when you sort of found down you were going to be the co one of the coordination leads was it a case that you'd stepped forward or stepped back how did the volunteer process work I guess is what I'm asking H how do you volunteer if you've stepped back I'm not certain how that work well that's when you shove oh I see uh no I did when the call for um contributors went out I did volunteer myself so yep oh look and I thought I was good at jokes Taco being a dad gets right to it look at that keep everything on track without a okay that's good I like that I should maybe like extra extra points for him because this is not his primary language and for him to pun and do dad jokes in a language that's not his primary language true major shs Taco yeah honestly if I tried any jokes in uh Dutch well it's not going to happen I don't know a word of Dutch uh the Tammy's Tammy's come back that you are going to be hurting deranged cats the shy lady yes the sh yeah you maybe you can maybe you can reassign that eponym and become the the quiet lady the quiet but effective non shouty maybe you could be the lady oh come on have you ever known me to be quiet well one of the things that goes along with like Dad jokes right is the looks that mothers can give oh yeah oh yes and so I feel like you don't have to shout you just do one of those like you just lower your glasses and just give one of those looks you know did you get that I used to so we every every Sunday we'd sit down and have like a full meal with the family and uh and my mom would often invite people from the community around and and I was quite a precocious sort of young child and i' get in trouble my mother could put me in my place with the mest like movement of an eyebrow just like the and i' be like it's very do that Michelle do that deploy the eyebrows there's another title for this episode right okay getting back to it I just imagine Michelle quiet how much fear would be spread yeah yeah oh you see that just just see I'm scared and I'm yeah just there's an ocean between us yes yeah um the British do this thing I don't know if it's an American North American thing as well we do this thing called totting um where we sort of go and totting can be enormously powerful yeah just like a tiny sh yes the Tutt bomb as Armando she calls it yeah cor's got it uh eyebrow coordinator says Tommy oh key do right anyway should get to the salon there's your lead yeah get to the salon here we go um and align to that um that was the the lead for the that was the team for 6.8 however we also have hosting and team uh theme sorry reps that have been announced for 2025 this is a post on the wp Tavern uh which by the way a genuine bit of water coming out of the eyes here uh joler who has been writing uh for the tavern for a while Michelle did you tweet me was it I think it was you that tweeted me to say that um jeler has tweeted I think to say that they're G up that role um yeah no maybe it wasn't you I can't remember who sent it anyway somebody did um and so I would just like to say thank you to jelna for stepping in obviously when Sarah Gooding stepped down after Justin we had a vacuum for quite a while jelen have filled that Gap admirably I think for the last few months but um The Tavern is going to sort of I guess go cold for a bit I don't know what's going to happen to it but um keep your eye on this tab because I'll be hopefully still doing the podcast episodes we'll talk about that what we did do already but um J's last one of the last pieces is the the team the hosting and theme reps and here's the names Alexandre cosmin ganga cfle um Shiva shanka B poies for butchering any hosting reps are going to be Z and Lucas so thank you to them for their work as well anybody anything on those no okay is is is Nathan's audio garbled for anybody besides me okay really little bit of roboting going on yeah oh okay okay uh let me try a couple of things let me remove a couple of things on my end that might be chewing up my CPU is that better yes absolutely oh interesting okay let's see how we go uh apologies if please just interrupt me and tell me because I can always refresh and come back and you can always you know have fun while the cats away or whatever that expression is um okay here we go here's the stuff that um that's going to be sort of causing controversy this week that I mentioned earlier you may or may not want to contribute to here's number one um this is a post from automatic.com uh this happened on the 9th so just a few days ago four days ago uh it's entitled aligning automatic sponsored contributions to Wordpress if you were to look at a graph which comes out each year I think yosa vul um is the person that typically puts the graph together at least that's where I'm colliding with it there's um sort of like these circles and those circles represent the amount of hours that different companies in the WordPress space have contributed to the WordPress project uh usually automatic is by far the largest of those circles and then you get things like yoast and and various other people as well as other companies as well however that is being pivoted or automatic in this piece are saying that because of the ongoing um legal dispute with WP engine it has been decided and I'll quote to recalibrate and ensure our efforts are impactful as possible automatic will reduce its sponsored cont contributions to the WordPress project this is not a step we take lightly it brings sorry it is a moment to regroup rethink and strategically plan how automatici can contributing in ways that secure the future of Wordpress for generations to come automatici who contributed to core will instead focus on and I think this is the most interesting bit on for-profit projects within automatic such as do pressible VIP jetpack and woo Commerce um and then they say that what they're planning to do as part of the reset they're going to match the The Pledge from particularly is written here WP engine so at the moment 45 hours a week now if WP engine's commitment went down I don't know if that means that automatics commitment would kind of match that and equally if it went up I don't know if it means that they would match that as well um and yeah so this was obviously a fairly big shift and it does make you question if such a giant contributor to the project has decided to step out of contributing to the code base for C four and everything's going to be now focused on the bits and pieces around it the for-profit stuff what impact that will have and I offer it up to you if you want to talk and if not I will move on to the next bit I think it's not asly surprising I think this was something that could have been that was was being predicted as a part of larger stuff that was going on as always there are much better ways to communicate stuff and even in this this is the the nice version of some of the stuff we've seen in the last week but even this makes very little sense from an outside perspective and you've got to be sitting there going if you're an automatici who you know is sponsored to work on WordPress core or were um it must be really worrying inter internally I'm I'm hoping that there there's lots of internal communication going on encouraging people and saying don't worry we'll sort you know it all gets better Etc but if that's your job if you're like somebody who's internal there you especially if you've gone through several rounds of these various offers where they've been said look if you don't agree with us leave and not everybody can do that not everybody could just leave so then for a lot of the people there they're just gonna have to put their heads down and and want to not not to be seen by anybody I suspect um so I feel very sorry for the automatici who are are stuck in the middle but right right so what you're saying is that there's obviously automatici who've taken on a job where for many many years they'll have been doing work that now they've got like kind of a new job description basically and they've got to do something which they weren't necessarily doing before I see and quite a lot of these people will not I mean they're all particularly the development team developers automatic automatic are very talented individuals who obviously can change their hands of things but if your jobs to been been working on WordPress core that is a very different place to a lot of the places that they're now being told they're going to be re assign potentially reassign to and obviously this is just an external communication that has been put out into the wider world what impact it might actually have um but given you've got like um I've got oh no I feel really bad I've gotten the name of the the the lady who took on the role as the executive director of wordpress.org Mary Mary hoard yes given her role is the executive director of wordpress.org she's going to find and she's which was a full-time role she was employed to do she's now supposedly doing less than 5 hours a week she's going to be either she's got not going to have a lovely time not doing very much or presumably has now got to find some other job some other work to be doing inside the company it just feels really like oh that's unfortunate um but generally I just this this doesn't feel like it's a either it's very shortterm and this is just mudslinging or it's a long-term realignment in which case I think there's a lot of people who are going to be truly shocked because that wasn't what they signed up to do so just to address that point let's just pop that article back on the screen if you go right to the bottom um it says I just highlighted this bit we're excited to return to active contributions to Wordpress called Gutenberg Playground open verse. org when the legal attacks have stopped so the the constraints around this change of course seem to be bound to the um the the the legal dispute becoming an event in history you know no longer hanging over anybody's head uh comment from Courtney Robertson here um in post status sorry Tim you've been obliterated by that there we go um in post status Jonathan bosinger confirmed other teams not just core are reassigned as well he will be Dev education on internal projects right so Jonathan's job was to do the uh public facing learn materials I don't know if that encapsulates all that he did but I I saw him doing that and now it's going internal by the look of that um on internal projects so education but turned towards the people on the inside okay um anybody else Michelle or Corey or shall we move I I you know I know that I'm not a you know that I'm not a coder and I and there's a lot that goes on with the code of Wordpress and moving it forward I'm a community person and I'm really hopeful that we have enough people who are not automatici the work in community to keep things moving forward for upcoming word camps and things like that that's where I think I really want to see a lot of the momentum keep moving forward um with ownership in the community about the community which I think is what this all should is about from the beginning anyway not just code so there have been people um who have been reassigned within automatic who have reached out to me to say if people ask about this can we send them to you to give answers about things that you're working on and and I'm not going to go in depth on some of that but um but yes right there are those of us who continue to work in the community who are sponsored by other companies or work within other companies who will keep doing the best that we can to help keep things moving forward as well it will be interesting to see though if the number of hours so because automatic was that biggest piece of the pie if you like I I honestly don't know what if I always saw it as like there was just a bunch of circles next to each other so you never got that kind of pie chart bit but I imagine that the automatic piece of the pie was pretty big um it will be interesting to see let's imagine a scenario in which this LW sup goes on and on and on and just keeps going for months and months and months it will be interesting to see if your 6.8 um is well let's say Le has less of the things that were intended to be shipped if we were to look at the road map several months ago will it have less things in it I'm imagining the answer is going to be yes because you know those those hours that would have been put into it will be different um Tammy's just making the point though that it is important to note core um to note core and work is still going on I should also point out that the the hours that here we go I'll just pop this on the screen again um that it says here um these hours so the the the remaining hours that automatic will be putting in will likely go towards security and critical updates which is I think an interesting um interesting thing so you know the the if something comes up hopefully that will get addressed you know some new vulnerability crops up that's that's unheard of that will be one of the things that the automatici will be assigned to doing um Imran web Squadron saying um how do they qualify hours spent I've logged in every day to their slack since the end of September I have done audio for some of their videos there's uh and it's truncated on the screen but I can see it here there's no Clarity on how they record hours contributed log into your wordpress.org account and adjust the number of hours and what teams you're contributing to it's all coming from your profile and how you report your hours okay thank you Michelle that's good to and can I just say too that there are a number of companies it isn't just one or two companies I am so grateful I just want to say this publicly so grateful to Stell WP and liquid web for affording me the time within my work week to continue to work on community and things that I do within the community um and and my company is not the only company doing those things and I'm not the only person within liquid web doing those things so other companies are doing what we're doing and trying the best we can to keep community and code and everything moving forward as well let's just go to Courtney again Courtney Robertson uh there was a post in the community's team site that there will be folks stepping up such as Timmy uh to keep events going um I'm struggling to keep up with the comments that are coming in but uh if I see any more that I wish to put up I will uh Cory Michelle Tim Cory yeah I so I don't know if it's Devil's Advocate or a little bit of a different take or something but um I I would I I hadn't seen the like you know uh as soon as the lawsuits and we we'll go back to normal I'd kind of hope that this would actually become the norm which is I think going to get me booed but um automatic from an out outside perspective has it has felt like for a long time uh I'll just say people in and around automatic have have sort of lorded this over the rest of the community and used it as justification for well we're going to make these priorities for every release and we are better than every other company and we are of holier than thou because of the hours contributed and so um and and this idea that automatic is somehow better than the other capitalist corporate entities in the space um and if they if their contribution becomes even with everybody else's then that argument kind of goes away and and to me there's people have said in Twitter and in conversations and whatnot like um you know automatic is a company like there's a lot of discussion going on and and big voices um screaming loud about you know the evil of this Corporation and that Corporation and and a lot of people re butting like automatic is a company too and so to me this kind of draws an underline on of that of like automatic is just another company and and again people will disagree with that every company's a little different you know but if they are just another company in the space I think that's actually better CU like like that AR that article says though they're kind of making the opposite Point like this levels the the playing field a bit interesting okay Tim I I think did you want to say something that sounded like I S I sort of was going to make a point that was sort of similar to Cory's which is that the reduction down in hours uh while initially were hurt as Michelle said people will step up um and as a project it could it could be very positive because there has been this massive imbalance that said if it work that only works if there is uh when Cory said well we're we're delivering this feature because we've got all these hours supported we we as long as we don't end up in a scenario where features cannot be delivered because they've been roadblocked by people saying no um but we're not going to work on that and we're not going to work at all we're just going to do the these updates and we're gonna but we're gonna stop any progress being made on anything that doesn't support our goals um if we can get past that sort of stage and we can have a stage where we actually have collaboration across multiple contributors and there isn't this giant sort of uh just gravity that automatic would have when it has so many people contributing it naturally draws all the tickets towards it it draws its features into the into the into the WordPress sort of project so this might be a really positive step um but it has to come with uh undoing of some chains regarding leadership and control of the project can't so if you're going to reduce down that uh the amount of hours you're doing well that in turn means you've got to let the people who are stepping up make take the decisions and make some of the decisions okay right yeah that's an interesting part I hadn't thought of that um Tammy liser says one thing to keep uh one thing it please keep reporting bugs raising issues track and H is still open for um the release as it's happening 6.8 again an interesting point 6.8 is going to be a focus on iterations and improvements not features which is maybe an unexpectedly good consequence of this um so maybe that's what everybody needs right now is how she finishes off and then Marcus makes a similar point I think to uh Corey and Tim there um as a fan of local a local sports team who has had many injuries I do think this gives other folks who have not been given given a chance um and OPP it's truncated but it says an opportunity to step in and show what they can do so yeah interesting every cloud and all that um I to ask sorry let's go let's go Corey first then Michelle sorry sorry Michelle um uh I'm I'm happy and hopeful that the article specifies that that the hours that automatic will be contributing are focused on security um I'm I'm skeptical that it'll actually work out that way um to be cynical but I'm I'm hopeful that like as that comment said that the focus will be on improvements clean up the bare necessities more more on code Less on uh the block editor broadly speaking but we'll see I'm gon to use that as the uh the title of this week's episode code um I like that yeah I know uhing D joke uh Michelle no good are you sure okay sorry for interrupting no no I was just gonna make make a funny and it's not really that funny so let keep going that's my job that is what I do uh okay let's move on change the subject a little bit so this happened as well um this is on the repository so Ray Ry Moray writes um Mullen WG shots down WordPress sustainability team igniting back clash and the sustainability team which you can see well some members thereof uh I think this is word Camp Europe it looks like by the stuff in the background um it's happened this team was disbanded uh by Matt mullenweg in the chat uh sorry in the slack uh probably about a week ago I feel it was now something like that um announced in the WordPress slack on Wednesday that he was stepping down for oh yeah that's a bit of context which doesn't really matter anyway the long and the short of all of this is that that team was shot down um and I don't know if anybody was aware that that was going to happen so that team just got shut down uh fairly swiftly um and the people who had been contributing to that team um obviously had an opinion on all of that anything on that Michelle Corey Tim this is just to emphasize that sustainability is a legal requirement in awful lot of countries and every a major open source project has a sustainability team the sustainability team would and the way it was shut down was just like bang you are no longer interested in goodbye which obviously given the current drama is always going to get down badly but this is one of these things you can't as much as improving performance improves sustainability sustainability is more than just getting down a few bites in in core and saying we're done it it's part of a much wider remit this would be very similar to saying we're going to shut down the accessibility team because we think that the accessibility should really just be in core or we're going to shut down the security team because we just write better and more secure code it's on that sort of same par just because we're more used to uh accessibility and security being a little bit like priorities even though they are the eighth class citizens inside the project in many ways sustainability is even further down that chain and just got whacked straight off but for a lot of people that's going to have a lot a big implication going forward um and come when they're starting to look at uh when agencies and when these really big projects these really big projects that are Prestige ones that we really want on WordPress when they're going to start asking questions and they're going to go to places like WordPress VIP or to one of the or one of the bigger agencies and start talking about sustainability and it's they're going to struggle and have answers because they're going to be because we've cut that team away so uh it seems very shortsighted and obviously the mannerism of how it got shut down was just we're here now aren't we clinically this was going to be my response to your comment about people's roles changing in automatic as I was going to be like look at that other article that the likelihood is that things are just going to get shut down worryingly potentially willy-nilly based on somebody's whim and and there's and I feel bad for for people who are the the brunt bearing the brunt of that the um I did a podcast episode with one of the people that you can um you see on the screen here um this this fine gentleman right here uh whose name is now I badiola and uh in it we talked about the sustainability team this was back in uh May uh just the previous May and the the the goal of the stabil the sustainability team wasn't as you might expect just sort of performance I I.E let's make the code a WordPress website load quicker there was way more to it and it was about you know uh events and uh sustainability in terms of you know jobs and all sorts of other things as well so it's kind of kind of a broader broader remit if you want to though head to the repository. email and you can see the title here Mull shots down WordPress sustainability team igniting backlash is the title and uh if you scroll down you'll be able to see that Ry has written up a whole slew of you know differing opinions on that which we haven't got time to get into here but you can imagine um given that it went from something to nothing in Fairly short shrift that there were a lot of uh differing voices let's put it that way um the same ability team Courtney says is where uh five for the future new contributor mentor ship contributed stats dashboard and more were also centralized okay so maybe there's some uh cleanup work there cor courney for that team as well I don't really know anybody else on that one Cory's gone he's 'll be right back okay great okay thank you that's great uh right okay so um honestly we can't we can't seemingly get away from all this there's a lot happening isn't there there's loads going on this is that uh patch stack were rejected as WordPress uh sorry as word Camp Europe sponsor for 2025 this is word Camp Europe I don't know if I said that uh due to lack of significant contributions so Oliver s the CEO of patchak shared a message that he'd got from it it's written here at least anyway the WordPress uh Community team and um if you read that uh basically it was to sum it up um your application has not been approved this time around um and for instance I uh we recognize I'm trying to find the exact line doesn't matter the point was they pointed to um the the history of patch Dax contributions and the way that it felt from that email is that they didn't match what was expected in order to be a sponsor at that event um that obviously again blew up as so many things are at the minute everything is sort of you know it's getting posted a thing happens and then you know it all gets blown up and uh actually interestingly uh just down here Matt mullenweg uh himself got into this debate by saying that he thought that and I'll quote he says I agree that's a crappy email to get it's also not 100% accurate uh that is to say that the the definition of why they were not allowed to sponsor was not accurate uh I'll look into it thank you for your and to you and all your colleagues for trying to make WordPress plugins and themes better and uh ol the update on here is that it says right now Oliver s from patch says the last thing that we've been told is that we're not eligible to sponsor but we'll see obviously how that story develops uh interestingly and I don't know if there's anything in this around the time that um that the the whole Saga with WP engine and automatic kicked off I don't know if you remember on this show we reported um from Drupal uh Dre bagart from Drupal over there they have the system where based upon what you did in the previous year so it's not five for the future but it's whatever metrics they've got you are or are not entitled to become a sponsor or you're you know appear on the drupal.org web page or come to their Drupal cons as a sponsor and I wondered if it was something like that that was being put in place in the background you know the scaffolding around that was being built but not not that we would know because we didn't know but I wondered if that's how they're going to pck it you know if you've ticked off this thing this thing this thing and this thing then you can be a sponsor but in this case if that's the case then patchak well or indeed anybody would not have known that so I'm kind of making it up really I don't know if that's what's going on or not uh Tim sort of nodding his head maybe that's well no I was just nodding my head in sort of like that whole the the the the way that druple does it is very transparent very open right and comes through the fire Mak doing lots of silly mistakes with their community events um so they've learned and they've reiterated over many times and it's sometimes got it wrong but the key word to that is transparent they're very clear about what the requirements are uh how you gain those requirements yeah and the whole thing five to the Future has been it's really I mean there's been efforts to make it better but it is quite opaque and it's self-reporting and it's all the and it's and it's like this really obscure little thing that for years it has been around for a while but nobody really it wasn't a thing until he got frosted into the Limelight with this like no you're not contributing unless you're doing it through five to the Future as a business owner I have sponsored a word camp with my tiny little business I am not subscribed to five to the Future does that mean I will no longer be allowed to sponsor word camps do I not contribute have I not contributed Ed enough in the past historically enough to qualify these are all does it bother you did you get your money's worth out of sponsoring oh well that that is a completely be the cynical one here yeah yeah and totally and one one I'm very happy to conversation to have but um it Z sort of comes up over again are we gonna say that actually you can't be a speaker unless you subscribe to five to the Future what about an attendee I mean we you already we're stuck with attendees must go through the rigma of signing up for a wordpress.org account and all the other bits so I'm goingon to I'm gon to put down a a bet that I'd want to lose but I'm not convinced word Camp Europe will be on H I'm willing to put a bet I I want to be wrong about it but I'm not sure word Camp Europe's going to be on I don't think they're I I would use the word can't right I I wonder how many word camps can't go on because there aren't going to be sponsors yeah historically the flagship events have been run a little bit differently than the local events and I wonder how that will play out with the set of rules that it seems to be in play um you know like word Camp Rochester when you meet with your Mentor you're told that you have to get so much sponsorship that's local sponsorship and people like that um you know a local company that's say um printer you know is not contributing to Wordpress other than paying money to have their name on your website is that um still okay because it's a local sponsor are you going to be able to find local sponsors that contribute in that way and so I would argue that it's probably still going to be a little bit of a different set of rules for local camps and Regional camps versus the flagship events but I don't know was there a new story recently about how they've introduced uh $500 is supposed to go to uh tv ads and radio ads or some am I the only one that remembers this I don't remember that one no so that that was that not that the money from the com from WordPress itself the oh yeah that was money from Beed for those things yeah I think that was $400 different yeah which is different than raising money um from a loc I realized it just it it all feels very uh it feel like I like Tim alluded to it feels like there's a bit of there's some mistakes being made and there's a bit of of splashing around trying to figure out how to make all this stuff work how to how do we what what is sponsorship how do what are the rules around sponsorship and then also like the inverse how do we get sponsors how do we get local sponsors um you know and just none of none of it none of it seems like it's Landing quite right okay and taco ver donot just fully cementing his credentials here as a brilliant um you know just got the full dad joke thing going on and like Michelle says to be able to do it in a second language is pretty incredible word can't like it word can't nah word Camp Europe will happen he's sure um but that yeah brilliant well done um is that printer contributing by sponsoring I heard sponsorship is marketing not contribution I hope you're wrong says Steve Mosby sorry the previous one was Marcus betet um and all right that is it we all of these articles are just painting a picture of a WordPress ecosystem that we just don't recognize uh it's very different we we've been used to a decades literally Decades of it evolving slowly over time and things just morphing at a fairly pedestrian rate so that you can keep up with what's going on and now we're in a period of very rapid flocks and uh and so it's all kind of hitting all at once and so it definitely is is interesting should we say we seem to be making lots of big decisions happening off the back of things um you know in in the in the press for what have you and one one more comment about the patch stack thing I think we're with um uh what's it called press conf now yeah which you've reported on previously yeah we did yeah um and I I'm excited to see more unofficial IAL or parallel or whatever the right word is events that are uh WordPress related but not necessarily involved or or directly sponsored by or overseen by like the the core WordPress ecosystem Universe slash whatever you want to call it I'm I'm I'm excited about that because I'm slightly related or or yeah is I've been real disappointed I'm just sad that there there used to be so many small local camps and postco there aren't and there can't be and I'm I'm sad that it feels like a lot of this the stuff that we're we're talking about here is getting in the way of those coming back I'm hopeful that people will take their own Reigns and you know start putting on their own events local events small events and kind of because like when I lived in Nashville there were uh um what they what were they called um free free camps right and uh there was an event space people could show up and kind of elect themselves to speak and you still got some of those elements of great conversations happening and we were all there together to collaborate to to be part of a community to you know interesting conversations would happen and I'm really excited for that to happen and I'm really excited to happen for that to happen without all this all these hoops that people have to jump through and all these um official rules and yeses and NOS going on be interesting to see won't it whether whether that ecosystem of um events outside of word Camp Central um occurs let's see humans are resilient says Tammy uh but we need to be kind to each other that's the point the cat comes on the cat oh I see okay yeah yeah for 10 seconds only I'm not I'm not doing this for long you're GNA get the capat for 10 seconds so just so that we can all have a breather okay here we go is all I could cope with and a half second so sorry uh sorry poor cat and there's goats as well but I we never got to the goats oh sheep there's goats out there you can follow them is that DS behind Tim uh right okay let's move on so this is um this is an interesting piece of news and it's not actually news in that it's it's not new so you might regard it as stale but it's it fell at just that moment where we went off air just before Christmas so we never quite got it but I think it was like mid December mid to late December um WP Community Collective uh.com the article is entitled the wp Community Collective announces formal nonprofit incorporation now honestly the amount that I know about nonprofits and incorporation in the US can be written on a grain of rice in a bro um so hopefully Michelle can help us out here but it says we're thrilled to announce a significant milestone in the evolution of the wp Community Collective on the third 13th of November 20124 we officially incorporated as a California membership nonprofit for Mutual benefit launching an exciting new chapter in our commitment to supporting people and projects that comprise the communities of Wordpress and the open and open source software uh wpcc that's the acronym uh aims to remove the financial and logistical barriers to open source contribution and support the development of projects and initiatives that drive open source forward and there's a call to get involved if you want to be a part of that and there's a slack which has been launched as well so that you can join up and be a member in that way and then it goes into here the structure of what this all means but I'm going to pause there and just hand it over to Michelle and say tell us more Michelle because I don't I don't really get it so it I don't know how it is in other parts of the world but in the United States uh a nonprofit organization has different oversight uh different spending rules and things like that but they also are not taxed themselves so they can make purchases without paying sales tax for example um and contributions made from uh people within the United States at least are not um are tax deductible so you know you can't just like give away your entire salary and not be taxed but there's because there's of course a million tax codes here uh but but contributions made are are tax deductible to what you are text on an annual basis from your salary and so this is a move in the right direction this is something that allows them to operate um with better outcomes for the people who are contributing and it allows them some freedom to be able to do things also without um being taxed themselves and so I think this is great this is something really to be applauded and say Katie and Courtney have done a lot of work for this I will also say that I don't know how they've funded being able to become a nonprofit but it is not an inexpensive ordeal because lawyers are involved and if you know lawyers that is not something that is usually very cheap um but becoming u a nonprofit organization usually costs the organization between 10 and $15,000 I don't know what they've paid or what they've had to pay but that means that it's a very big commitment to the future of their organization to have gone through that so um appla all around for them have I summed it uppr right if I say that it's almost like an escro service for um if you as a company wish to but you don't know where you want your endeavors to go you can pay some money to the wp Community Collective they will then sort of like act as an escrow holding service and then they will redistribute that money to uh willing volunteers and people in the community who wish to be financially remunerated so in other words it takes the decision- making about where you might want the money to go you're just sort of you can hand over some money and the wpcc in the public uh you know very transparently will say where all of that money is ending up I'm not sure exactly how they're doing it I know in the past you've been able to earmark your donation towards a specific organiz subset organization um not organization but subset project so for example um Alex Stein was previously um awarded money to do work on accessibility through WPC and so um I don't know if they're still doing it that way I haven't looked further into it I if if Courtney's still in the chat she could give us a little bit of um ins yeah was hoping that she would drop in and give us that little head she may have had to uh she may have had to step away but and and I'm sure if you were to scroll up and look at their donation page you may be able to still see if that is um true statement or not so they have a donation page there off yeah WP it's done with open Collective uh and at the moment yeah so so you can contribute to different earmarked um places so they have that founding member a donation that now is different than what it was before where you could say I specifically want to donate to this um specific uh project or what they were doing so you yeah that's right along here were a bunch of different specific project and they were they were bound sometimes I think to individuals like Alex and what have you yeah um anyway there you go so it's a bit of it's not brand new news but I thought it was worth mentioning given um it's still very it's very momentous um for this organization and for those who have us who contribute to it so uh congratulations to them okay uh we were talking about word Camp Europe a moment ago whether or not it will or won't happen um and here is some Intel hopefully that means that it will because just this week just a few days ago they put out a call for speakers so europe. camp.org 2025 and you've got the call for speaker page but also the call for sponsor page and it will be interesting in the next few weeks to see I guess this one particular the call for sponsors as we described might be an interesting litus test of the uh sort reading the room about how people are feeling in the word space at the moment with their if you plan to apply to speak you have till the end of this month I believe till 31st of January good point 31st of January if you want to be a speaker and if you would like to be a sponsor I don't remember that date it didn't come into my head for some reason can't remember anyway you can go to this page and uh find out and they got all the lowdown on what the room will look like and what you're going to get for your money and so on okay anything to add to that or should we move on okay let's move on uh so we were talking earlier about how automatic are sort of making the autom making that's maybe the wrong word are getting the automatici to uh to it turn into internal for-profit projects wordpress.com is one of those and this came out this week I thought it was kind of interesting uh so Studio which is a a local development environment that is built on the backbone of I think I'm pretty sure in saying it's built off the background of playground um now has the capacity to sync to wordpress.com websites and again if we look at what it was saying in the automatic article it does sound like there's going to be a push on the.com side to make it look like.org there's nothing really to say here apart from the fact that this is now a new thing if you bind it to your wordpress.com account you can now uh develop local and uh you know press the button and sync it up into the wp.com cloud anybody got anything to add to that probably it's a very cool app actually on your computer I used to I've tried to set up zamp and M and things in the past with it's not my it's not my baileywick for example to be able to do a lot of those kinds of things that seem to have a lot of steps this was so easy to deploy so easy to work with um they've integrated AI back in October there's a lot of things going on and uh if you are interested in learning more um Ian Stewart who is wp.com product lead is going to be on post status happiness hour this Wednesday and we're going to go a little more in depth on it so if you're interested in learning more um I invite you to that live stream there you go thank you that's good that's nice post status.com and you'll be able to find the the feed there I'm sure there we go uh so that's sync Right Moving on uh this is just to say somebody who's often you know commenting on this or writing to me on Twitter and things like that uh is uh this fine gentleman Elliot Richmond and he has put out he puts out a lot of YouTube content this one caught my eye though um it's a completely free uh piece of content I don't think it's got upsells or anything like that and it's uh if you're curious about block theme development um hopefully I'm going to be talking to Tammy liser on a podcast episode which will come out probably in the next couple of weeks this week about this very subject but um just a bit of a hat tip to to Elliot there for putting out really nice really nicely done professional um YouTube content in this case around the theme of block theming and how you might get up and running with that again I don't suppose anybody's got anything to contribute to that if you do pipe up now if not I'll move on all righty uh plugin that I saw coming out uh this is johnno Alderson and he's got an an edge image plugin I think I this is not new but it it's new to me and I just thought it was kind of curious and and interesting um it puts your images to the edge as you might very well imagine and it uses things like Cloud flare bunny CDN and it'll put your images up there serve them from those edges and also you know if you needed to do any transformation like resize them and so on um and it's completely free on the wordpress.org repository um again probably nothing to add to that but I just thought just to say it is brand relatively brand new I think he did the first release like like five days ago oh it is brand new it was me looking's first plugin so interesting but it was me looking at this version number that made me think well it can't be brand new then has he just been like releasing a version like every 10 minutes or something he's clearly into um s but um yeah it's it is brand new and as say it's his first plugin so huge congratulation because the very first thing to do with a plugin to ship it and so many people start writing a plugin and don't ship it it's bit like writing a book oh then don't get me started on writing a book I could use up like a whole 10 minutes of a podcast episode on that subject if you want me to uh oh no I did that already uh yeah so well done jonno um that's brilliant so Edge images there's more to say I'll just quickly read the very beginning of the description Edge images automatically uses your Edge transformation service Cloud flare accelerated domains IMS Etc uh to apply performance optimizations to image markup I I didn't know if this was close to your heart Corey given everything that you do at OMG IMG but fascinating plugin yeah it's a great little great little plugin and um pleased to see it nice I love the I love the artwork especially like always honestly one of the things that I rate plugins on in addition to code and reputation and all that but mostly uh title and the images they choose and this is uh adorable it's a good one it is is a good that's for sure um the F the first rule of book club is don't talk about book club that's right the first rule of writing a book do not write a book I actually this is no word of a light I've mentioned this before the first rule of book club is don't read about book club yeah don't yeah yeah yeah don't even don't even think about book club bring another bottle of wine I thought yeah yeah don't book it either no don't book it oh you're qualifying for dad jokes then Michelle I know there's such thing as mom jokes I have to lean in with whatever testosterone I have in my body so well caught um okay I don't know if we want to get into time is sort of running short so we don't have really that much time but we'll just go into this this was another piece which uh caught people a little bit off guard this week um this is on the repository the reporting of uh a call for more weirdness in WordPress theme design Spark debate about accessibility um and this was Nick hamy um who proposed that it would be good to see more let's use the word quirky instead of uh weird weird I think I've got this intuition and tamy sort of cemented it a little bit I don't know if weird has got the same connotation in the US as it does in the UK I don't know if there's a different depth to the to the quality of that word but weird in the UK kind of implies not good to some extent so if you say weirdness you are basically giving it the thumbs down um whereas we've taken it back Nathan so right you've you've got back to the original Elizabethan version weird 100% like you know Austin Austin has a whole marketing campaign Keep Austin Weird and then I and I don't know if they were the first city but lots of cities have done this and um I I do think that it isn't necess neily you know in a 1950s Suburban sense weird is bad right but I think it in modern parland It generally over here has a uh quirky Charming at least potential use right um but I to me I this is this is a thing that comes up often um in redded and another uh Hacker News there's frequently threads about like oh I missed you know I missed the internet of of you know 20 plus years ago and and I'm totally that old guy that misses uh you know my first websites were so weird because I was treating them as little art installations and and and also like what can I do this is prec CSS so it was slicing up so it was going crazy in Photoshop drop Shadows all over the place oh yeah um and then and then you know and then what could I do what how can I bend and break HTML in this thing called a browser to my whim and and how can I confuse people and the the website little digression here one of one of the websites that I always quote is um or reference is so when I was first learning about the internet in like 96 97 98 um hell.com sorry censorship boop. but um hell.com was a website that you went to and every month they got a digital artist to do an installation where it was something weird um including things like you'd click a button and a popup would would open a popup until it crashed your browser and usually your computer y you know but it was intentional it was it was meant to be a you know pushing the boundaries of the media and uh and I miss those days and it doesn't have to be as outrageous as crashing your browser or experimental JavaScript or whatever but you know in you look at you look at most landing pages you look at most of the internet which is now landing pages you look at most landing pages and they look very the same um and and and I get it right because we want to make money and we don't want to put people off by making a website too so creative that it's uh hard to use um and stuff like that but uh there's definitely anyway I was thrilled to see this come up in even in the WordPress context because I see it come up often in the rest of the internet context um I was a little surprised at how much like I actually had friends and colleagues reaching out to me or or referencing this sort of like in our ongoing private conversation so it really seemed to resonate with people and which I'm I'm happy about I would love to see more creativity myself included like I'm guilty of this too but like all of us could could take opportunities like personal blogs or websites or or do little experiments or whatever to like continue to push the medium forward it is really interesting isn't it how the the the accessibility piece no let me rewind let me start again the I think you're right if you were to look at a thousand websites randomly I'm sure that the design metaphors across a lot of them would be fairly similar and whether or not the internet has become a little bit uninteresting uh or a little bit tired and you see print Publications that that is a real thing that they can do isn't it you know they go to town on making every page quirky for one of a better word and different from the previous ones um experimental is a word that Tammy thinks should be used but also um artistic uh or quirky so those three things perhaps weird yeah creative and what have you um the the reason this story came about was because the collision between okay well if it's weird for the sake of weird and accessibility just gets the baby gets tossed out with the bath water that's not that's not good um because in many cases you know if it looks fabulous and really interesting but nobody with a for example a screen reader can make head or tail of it then that is bad um and it was you know as we do at the moment everything gets heated and taken in different directions and Pete shener who's was in the chat earlier don't if she's still with us she had a she had a fairly long um Twitter uh thread proposing like fairly carefully explaining how artistic um is not the same as functional so you know a piece of art that you put on a wall and hang on a wall is not the same thing for example it's not the same use case as a website and what have you anyway that um is all I'm going to say Tim Michelle anything you want to add I just want to emphasize that weird isn't doesn't have the same con connections internationally as it does in the US and it dives from like Shakespearean English and the weird sisters um so the fre weird sisters from Shakespeare uh so it really doesn't have the same happy all with artistic connotations it really has a negative view so when he's saying weird we're all going we don't want weird we want good happy and cheerful and experimental and artistic it's kind of interesting because Corey second like checked himself then when he used the word hell and the word hell to me has no like there's nothing in that word it's just a word it has no connotations and also there was a guy on um there was a guy on the BBC not that long ago he's an American and he used the word crap and that in the UK is powerful that that word is like don't use that in front of children but I think in the US it's like it's just a word you use all the time right it just means not that's the that's the word you don't use instead of the s word oh okay right yeah but it's not as powerful but it definitely is somewhere along the Spectrum towards it but this guy got like shot down and that's the word he said and oh that's interesting um anyway so there's pacher she's back thanks for the mention yeah go and find pacher um at pacher and you can see uh what she said there but certainly sparked some debate Michelle you haven't had a chance I don't know if you wish to I just I put it in the chat that I think of the word weird as being several standard deviations outside of the bell curve okay got it yeah thank you uh peach said it was on Blue Sky not Twitter apologies those two things look so similar now they do um I can't tell the difference but yeah certainly you're very welcome for mentioning it the the article that we're talking about was on uh the repository call for more weirdness in WordPress theme Sparks debate about accessibility you can read a lot about it I mean it got very heated at points all right how much time we got not a lot so very quickly then I just want to mention AI Services we mentioned Felix ANS he's the performance lead for 6.8 he has this fabulous walkthr where he illustrates what you can do with the new AI Services plug-in where you can bind your WordPress website to all the AI so it's not just chat GPT you can select which one you want and you can ask it to re you know retain a memory so that you can improve things over time just a really interesting walkthrough it's about seven minutes long and it really shows what's coming uh down the pike inside a WordPress uh I apologize Taco I said I was going to mention this I'll do this a little bit more um at another moment because we haven't got much time but if you've been following Taco has moved from yoast and he's now working with uh Yos oful and MAA and the team at progress planner uh well in the very near future um they're going to be launching their pro version it says you can get Pro now my understanding is for a period of time I think 99 licenses are going to be for sale at a a discounted rate perhaps that window has already gone but if you've heard me talking about what progress planner is we did an episode on WP builds with yosta vult about what it is and how it's kind of gamifying the drudgery of putting a website together and keeping it up to date and making sure that your editors are checking things and making sure that your contributors are putting things in in a timely manner it gamer it all and makes it an interesting challenge well now they got a pro version and uh you can see the difference here you get many courses you get some challenges and you get access to their support team as well so a little plug um and we will I'm sure be plugging it on various different channels as well progress planner.com slpro okay um and also dayve Foy sorry Dave again same thing uh day Foy amazing content creator like his videos look like TV basically um he's got a new course called No Stress DNS where he tries to take on the let's call it boring work of fiddling with DN DNS what it does I just fill in the DNS Fields I usually just copy and paste them I have no idea what any of them do Tim is going to be like Nathan can you I know shaking his head can we just say he missed the opportunity to say DNS also means do not stress oh oh yeah he did I'm going to get I'm going to mention that to him straight away is that is that an acronym in the US do not stress DNN no but I mean I'm a marketer so I see things like that I like it I'll get back to him I'll tell him anyway it's available um you can it's not available at the moment you can sign up to his list it's deo.com uh or just go Google No Stress DNS and I'm sure it'll be there for you to have a look at it Rhymes so it's yeah yeah exactly maybe that's what he was going for won't mention that not time will'll mention this go and just check out easing wizard.com if you fancy making little blue rectangles move from left to right in a sort of easing way this is your this is your best friend uh you know if you want to ease it in if you want it to be Quint cir Expo quart sign don't know what any of those mean but you can do it and then you can fiddle with the Curve and make things look at that how cool is that it's not that cool but I really think it's cool sad sad Nathan go build some Legos Nathan just go thank you thank you eing wizard.com go check that out this one is worth looking at I'll come back to it it's called squish do add. uh and it's an image squishing service it will compress your Avis jpegs J JPEG xels pngs and web PS to make them smaller and it's just right there you just Chuck it in and press the button and finally for Tim Nash's delectation not very long I'm afraid Tim the data breaches of 2024 the best ones uh I've highlighted a few weird again yeah yeah yeah yeah look they're weird weird yeah yeah anything on here Tim that gave you Joy or fear this year pardon was there anything on here that gave you you know SM smirkin snowflake by F so um if you scroll down to near the b or you might even have it it's got a nice list at the top snowflake though is like one of the last ones down there I did get that far but I didn't highlight it tell us what snowflake was so basically uh um Bad actors managed to compromise customer accounts for cloud analytics Services because they're not attached to lots of things and they managed to therefore then grab out details from people like AT&T to get master but also uh big Banks like Sant andere and this wasn't just like little bits of data this was like loads of data and it was it's a really good example for the web that we rely on these first parties so we rely on Google analytics we rely on all these services and we're installing their random little bits of JavaScript and you have no idea if that site's been compromised there are ways to tell but generally most people have no idea and if if you were a bad actor and you were like a state actor your target isn't going after WordPress sites your target is going after Google analytics because once you've got managed to compromise that piece little piece of JavaScript you have access to everything and snowflake was an example of hello this is really really really bad and the amount of data they just managed to troll was immense there's actually since 20 we're now in 2025 there's been a couple more in the last couple of days uh graved is an analytic service also just been been compromised and uh it's considered to be one of the largest breaches ever oh my Lord oh God we're starting off 2025 on a good note oh oh no the the one that I kind of thought was interesting cuz it would it just took me back a little bit was the was the one where they're authorizing you because they kind of keep passport information or something I can't remember what it was but essentially they were keeping hold of loads of data it's the kind of place where you go you know if you're I don't know you've got to prove that you're a certain age or something like that so you might upload your passport image or something like that that that service was breached I thought oh my goodness you know you've got everybody's age date of birth House address social security number in some cases and the date of breach itself is not really the point it's what people do with it afterwards isn't it all of the you know the fake calls that they make to different services to try and I don't know cream money out of an account some wish or other uh I don't see it's going to change Tim unless you uh you know you get on your Spider-Man suit and get out there swing through New York City and fix it all can you just do that for us I think safe obviously it's not going to change but at least people can start thinking about this and what you what data are you giving up and um obviously in in the EU and the UK we have quite strong data privacy laws and quite often people see them as a a barrier and complain about them and then you you you really have to point to articles like this and go are you sure you don't want people to be collecting all this data about you are you really sure um and so I really like it when the EF publishes link articles like this and uh or does a similar one over here it's it's valuable to just give people a bit of a jolt about what data do you share how much we we share accidentally how much we don't even realize we share and then next time somebody tells you oh think about block you know it's not a problem that Chrome no longer allows you to block block ads and popups and other JavaScript links so it's not not too much that you've have to now because of legislation prove your identity to go on your favorite social media site because a country somewhere has decided that kids under the age of 13 shouldn't be allowed on it these are all of these things now are having KnockOn effects to your personal security and your livelihood and life because if you are got by if your entire identity has taken over for some people it's really difficult to recover from oh boy yeah you hear some stories of things which you actually can't believe are true where that people's actual lives are ruined by a lot of people lot of people watching but a lot of people in this world will be living on credit they will be living paycheck to paycheck nipping into their overdrafts nipping using their credit cards so so to suddenly have that wiped out because you a bad actor has managed to destroy your credit rating suddenly you can't move House suddenly you can't get insurance suddenly you can't get a phone contract and you this can last for years and years so it is really devastating um so even if you don't worried about oh I've got nothing to hide my life is an open book you still need to take basic precautions and we will'll eventually learn yeah so to sum up episode number 320 of this week in WordPress it's all cheery isn't it everything's great there's nothing nothing weird going on at all uh and by the way this is a beautiful comment um by Dave uh speaking of the um the what was that website called I've forgotten already the easing website put the cancel subscription action behind the moving button game changer I love it I like that just about to get the button and just woohoo it go chase the button around the we I'm a bit worried you're giving people ideas there's already enough people struggled ccel subscriptions well there we go we've overrun I apologize for that and I thank Michelle forette I thank Corey mass and I think Tim Nash for think Tim Nash I thank Tim Nash for staying the course even though he made me sing I I don't I'm ever GNA get over that in all honesty uh I won't be showing this episode to my children that's for sure um but we'll be back yeah yeah no no no we'll be back next week I'm not entirely remembering who's going to be on but um Michelle Tim and Corey thank you so much for joining us the other thing to say is thank you so much if you made a comment that was loads of comments today and uh really appreciate it couldn't really keep up but uh hopefully you you understand that and before we go the final humiliating weird thing to do is to put up the hands and I'll make it really weird I love it when you do that that's so good there we go got to get my fingers out of it oh carry on carry on there we go got Cory I'm sorry we're gonna have to put you through it one more time here we go give us a wave thank you so much we'll be back if you three want to stick around for a quick chat at the end uh we can do that I will say thank you Sanara we will see you next week for this week in WordPress take it easy byebye, This Week in WordPress #320, WP Builds, 01jhjhw5czhx0by7ak4ycc9wyr.