This Week in WordPress #333  ## Metadata - Author: [[WP Builds]] - Full Title: This Week in WordPress #333 - Category: #articles - Document Note: --- tags: - #WordPress - #Podcast - #Accessibility - #AI - #Community Author: This Week in WordPress Host Source: YouTube Transcript (This Week in WordPress #333) Reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGx8lBW8cqc date created: {{date:2025-05-07}} {{time:12:00}} --- # Title: Detailed Notes on *This Week in WordPress #333* ## 🌐 Table of Contents: - [📝 Summary](#📝-Summary) - [📖 Main Content](#📖-Main-Content) - [🗒️ Notes](#🗒️-Notes) - [📖 References](#📖-References) - [🗣️ Paraphrase](#🗣️-Paraphrase) - [📰 Newsletter](#📰-Newsletter) - [✅ Action Items](#✅-Action-Items) - [🧪 Hypotheses](#🧪-Hypotheses) - [📊 Methodology](#📊-Methodology) - [❓ Questions](#❓-Questions) - [🔮 Future Research](#🔮-Future-Research) - [💡 Implications](#💡-Implications) - [🧠 Learning Styles Assessment](#🧠-Learning-Styles-Assessment) - [📊 Accessibility Assessment](#📊-Accessibility-Assessment) - [🌍 DEIB Assessment](#🌍-DEIB-Assessment) - [✅ Logical validity](#✅-Logical-validity) - [🔍 DARVO Analysis](#🔍-DARVO-Analysis) - [🔍 SEO Evaluation](#🔍-SEO-Evaluation) - [🎯 Conclusion](#🎯-Conclusion) ### References: 1. This Week in WordPress #333 transcript (YouTube, 2025) 2. WP Sync Sheets, WLDDN Meetup, Page Builder Summit sites 3. European Accessibility Act documentation 4. Kinsta “AI in Customer Service” report (2025) ## 📝 Summary: Episode 333 of *This Week in WordPress* overcomes technical gremlins to cover guest intros, community tools (WP Sync Sheets), meetups (WLDDN London), Page Builder Summit, canonical plugin debate for accessibility, WP 6.8.1 upgrade, fundraising plea for Leo Gopal’s mother, product launch strategies, WordCamp Europe outreach, PressConf recap, contributor reinstatements, WordPress contribution stats, newsletter tools (Mailer Press, Fluent CRM), Cloudflare Zero email client, and a study showing 93.4% of customers prefer human support over AI. ## 📖 Main Content: Hosts and guests adapt to a failing streaming platform [00:03](https://youtu.be/iGx8lBW8cqc?t=3). Introductions of John, Wendy, and late-stepping-in Dave [02:03](https://youtu.be/iGx8lBW8cqc?t=123). City vibes of Basel and shout-out to Administrator Toolkit plugin [06:08](https://youtu.be/iGx8lBW8cqc?t=368). Airborne AI art demo wows the group [08:12](https://youtu.be/iGx8lBW8cqc?t=492). WP Sync Sheets benefits non-technical clients [11:52](https://youtu.be/iGx8lBW8cqc?t=712). WLDDN London meetup call for speakers [13:48](https://youtu.be/iGx8lBW8cqc?t=828). Page Builder Summit preview [13:48](https://youtu.be/iGx8lBW8cqc?t=828). Debate: canonical plugins vs. core for accessibility [17:47](https://youtu.be/iGx8lBW8cqc?t=1067). Upgrade to WP 6.8.1 recommended [25:09](https://youtu.be/iGx8lBW8cqc?t=1509). Fundraiser for Leo Gopal’s mother [28:40](https://youtu.be/iGx8lBW8cqc?t=1720). Product launch “stalled launch” strategies [30:25](https://youtu.be/iGx8lBW8cqc?t=1825). Attracting fresh audiences to WordCamps [33:47](https://youtu.be/iGx8lBW8cqc?t=2027). PressConf intimate, no-recordings recap [47:02](https://youtu.be/iGx8lBW8cqc?t=2822). Reinstatement of 32 banned contributor accounts [58:09](https://youtu.be/iGx8lBW8cqc?t=3489). WordPress 6.8 contribution metrics by region and company [1:07:55](https://youtu.be/iGx8lBW8cqc?t=4075). Newsletter tools: Mailer Press, Fluent CRM, Newsletter Glue [1:13:42](https://youtu.be/iGx8lBW8cqc?t=4422). Cloudflare Zero AI email client demo [1:19:23](https://youtu.be/iGx8lBW8cqc?t=4763). Study: 93.4% prefer human over AI support [1:21:22](https://youtu.be/iGx8lBW8cqc?t=4882). ### 🗒️ Notes - **Technical Glitches & Adaptation** - Stream platform failure at start; host improvises alternative setup [00:01](https://youtu.be/iGx8lBW8cqc?t=1). - Chat integration demonstration to maintain audience interaction [00:45](https://youtu.be/iGx8lBW8cqc?t=45). - **Guest Introductions** - John: 16-year WP Plugins A–Zed podcast veteran [02:50](https://youtu.be/iGx8lBW8cqc?t=170). - Wendy: WP Europe lead organizer, communications head [05:02](https://youtu.be/iGx8lBW8cqc?t=302). - Dave: Creator of Administrator Toolkit, stepped in last minute [07:00](https://youtu.be/iGx8lBW8cqc?t=420). - **Community & Food Adventures** - White Castle & In-N-Out group trips; bonding over regional fast food [community chat]. - Sexy Burger’s Wagyu pop-up preview; local eatery discovery [community chat]. - **Tools & Meetups** - WP Sync Sheets: spreadsheet-driven content mapping without WP login [11:52](https://youtu.be/iGx8lBW8cqc?t=712). - WLDDN London: last-Thursday monthly meetup call for diverse speakers [13:55](https://youtu.be/iGx8lBW8cqc?t=835). - **Page Builder Summit** - 35+ talks, live networking; final prep on captions/transcripts [13:48](https://youtu.be/iGx8lBW8cqc?t=828). - **Canonical Plugins & Accessibility** - Matt Mullenweg’s proposal: modular accessibility features via plugin [16:11](https://youtu.be/iGx8lBW8cqc?t=971). - Pros: rapid release cycle, dedicated updates. - Cons: optional installation undermines baseline inclusion [19:24](https://youtu.be/iGx8lBW8cqc?t=1164). - European Accessibility Act urgency: compliance required in ~6 weeks. - **WP 6.8.1 Upgrade** - Minor release warnings vs. errors surfaced with `WP_DEBUG` [25:09](https://youtu.be/iGx8lBW8cqc?t=1509). - Modern hosting: one-click staging and plugin rollbacks. - **Fundraiser: Leo Gopal** - Mother’s experimental treatment costs; $8K goal, $1K+ raised [28:40](https://youtu.be/iGx8lBW8cqc?t=1720). - URL: [gopalsgals.com](http://gopalsgals.com) - **“Stalled Launch” Problem** - Initial product buzz fades; partnerships as re-engagement strategy [30:25](https://youtu.be/iGx8lBW8cqc?t=1825). - Case study: MainWP plugin’s co-marketing successes. - **WordCamp Europe Outreach** - Challenge: attract non-traditional attendees (TikTokers, travel bloggers) [35:57](https://youtu.be/iGx8lBW8cqc?t=2157). - Strategies: AI-driven poster contest for graphic designers; highlight venue experience. - **PressConf Recap** - 144-person intimate event, no recordings → deeper connections [47:02](https://youtu.be/iGx8lBW8cqc?t=2822). - Automatic’s Mary Hubbert needed bodyguard due to threats; community safety concerns. - **Contributor Reinstatements** - 32 accounts previously banned since Aug 2024 restored; formal review launched [58:09](https://youtu.be/iGx8lBW8cqc?t=3489). - **Contribution Statistics** - WP 6.8 had record 924 core contributors. - Top regions: USA (13.9%), India (13.7%), Japan, Australia. - Leading orgs: Automattic (37.9%), rtCamp, GoDaddy, Kinsta, Yoast. - Individual champion: MAmadooka (GoDaddy, 546 commits). - **Newsletter Tools** - Mailer Press: block-editor newsletter builder (pre-signup) [1:13:42](https://youtu.be/iGx8lBW8cqc?t=4422). - Fluent CRM: advanced workflows, WooCommerce integrations. - Newsletter Glue: per-block inclusion from posts. - **Cloudflare Zero** - AI-powered inbox management via Cloudflare Workers [1:19:23](https://youtu.be/iGx8lBW8cqc?t=4763). - **AI vs. Human Support Study** - 93.4% prefer humans; 78.3% find humans faster; 84% deem humans more accurate [1:21:22](https://youtu.be/iGx8lBW8cqc?t=4882). ## 📖 References: - YouTube: This Week in WordPress #333 transcript - WP Sync Sheets, WLDDN Meetup, Page Builder Summit - European Accessibility Act (2025) - Kinsta AI in Customer Service report (2025) ## 🗣️ Paraphrase: > **Original [17:47–17:55]:** > “Such a plug-in could allow us to deliver specialized accessibility improvements and features faster than the core release cycle permits.” > **Paraphrase:** > “By housing accessibility enhancements in a dedicated plugin, we can push focused improvements out immediately rather than waiting for the next WordPress core update.” > **Original [1:21:22–1:21:30]:** > “People want humans back—93.4% of consumers prefer speaking to a person rather than an AI.” > **Paraphrase:** > “Nearly all customers—over 93%—say they’d rather interact with an actual support agent than a chatbot. - Document Tags: [[wordpress]] - Summary: Join us LIVE for the 'This Week in #WordPress' show. It's fun, and we'd love your comments! Starts at 2pm UK time. https://wpbuilds.com/live Join Nathan Wrigley, Dave Grey, Wendie Huis in 't Veld and John Overall. - URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGx8lBW8cqc believe that it's working. Let's go. Let's go find out. It says live up in the top corner. Yeah. Um go find out. Hold on. All right. Let's click this thing. Video unable disabled. Okay. Let's watch on YouTube. Let's try that in the comments. You can see. There you go. Yeah, it's definitely working. It's just not working on my website, but it's definitely working. So, uh so that's good. That is good. So, I guess we should uh I guess we should crack on. We normally have like this twominut bit of music, but we're not going to have the two-minute bit of music today. I will add it in uh prior to that. So, I shall just begin and let me see how the chat works. We do seem to have people using the chat, so that's good, too. How does that work? Brian from Calon. Hello, say hello. Oh, that's nice. Okay, let's see how this works. Let me show it on the stream. Oh, look at that. Okay, great. Yay. All right, great. Okay, here we go. Hello. Hello. We are back. It is this week in WordPress. It's episode number three. I think it's 333. It is a magic number. It's a magic number, man. 333. It's a magic number. Half of 666, which sounds quite sinister. Um, however, if you are an avid follower of this show, you'll notice that it's completely different. Uh for a start we didn't have our introduction music which we normally do and secondly the whole show looks different. That is because the regular platform that we use has utterly collapsed. Um logged on this morning completely broken like totally dead. And uh so that's a bit of a shame. So I've had to cobble together this other solution. So it all looks a bit different. I'm not sure what I have to click to make anything work, but hopefully we're going to be able to model through. Um, if we if we have any technical gremlins or anything like that, I would urge you to sort of stay with us. The the video looks like it hasn't embedded on the WordPress website. So, if you go to wpbuilds.comlive, it looks like something got bought there. Not entirely sure what happened, but it looks like something kind of basically went wrong. So hopefully you found it on the YouTube channel. Anyway, here we are. I am joined as always by several uh guests as you can see. We've got John overall over there. We've got Wendy whose name I can never get right. So I shall get her to do her name in a minute. And we've got Dave. Dave gets special special mention uh this week because he got a he got email from me about I don't know 12 hours ago or something like that saying help uh because who should have been coming on the show? Rem should have been coming on the show. He's got a bit of a crisis going on and so Dave has stepped in at the 11th hour. So I'm very appreciative of all of that. Let's go around the houses introducing everybody. Let's start with John. Um John founded the WordPress plugins A to Zed podcast and over time bought on two different co-hosts to grow the show. This podcast is still going strong after 16 years and focuses on the usage of plugins to enhance the functionality of WordPress websites and help others with learning about about a variety of website and tech news and information. And if you're looking at the screen, you'll be able to see where to go for that. It's WP Plugins A to say zed because you being Canadian, you say that too, right? I do. Canadians use the zed. The rest of the world uses Z. Yeah. Well, no, we don't. We're with us as well. Uh, so yeah, thank you so much for joining us. I really appreciate it. Joining also is Wendy. Can I say your first name and then you just immediately after I say it, can you say your surname or the the other bits of your name? So joining me today is Wendy and she's on mute. No, let's try it. We missed my amazing pronunciation of We did. We did. We did. Uh, technical gremlins, you see. Right. Here we go. And we're joined by Wendy. How's it felt? There you go. Exactly that. And um Wendy is um is she was with us a few weeks ago. She's been on several times before. Wendy and I actually have a long and storied past years and years ago. Both Wendy and I joined this thing called WP Elevation which was run uh oh I don't know what what do you reckon Wendy? Was that like a decade ago that we joined that something? Yeah, I think it was something like that. Picha recently when it was I think it was 2014. Yeah. Well, Wendy and I were accountability partners and uh and yeah, that's when I got to know you. But more recently, we've been attending events and sort of hanging out which has been really nice. But uh h I'll read the bio. It says, "Hey, have you met Wendy? She's a dynamic force in the WordPress community. started as a volunteer at the first Word Camp Europe in Leiden in 2013 and she's evolved to being one of the lead organizers of the event in 2024 and is currently co-leading the communications team for the 2025 edition. Professionally, Wendy spends her time working at one.com as a WordPress product marketing expert. Beyond WordPress endeavors, Wendy is deeply committed to fostering connections through, now I'm going to say the love doctor because I can't I can't pronounce that uh word. Um a learning collective focused on interpersonal relationships until and since 2016 as head nurse. She has been instrumental in organizing workshops and events that help individuals and organizations enhance their relational skills. You must be um you must be really hoting up for the uh for the oncoming Word Camp Europe because it's what what are we now like four weeks away? Something like that. Yeah, I am. Very exciting. Very exciting. It is super exciting and um so much nice stuff going on and we have a great lineup and yeah, really exciting and still tickets available. There are still tickets available and if you if you actually drop a you know when on a Google map you can drop the human and you go into street view you can drop the little character. I had a little poke around Basil and never having been there before I didn't really have any notion of what to expect. It looks magnificent as a city. I'm really quite surprised how impressive it all looks. Yeah, it's so cool. We were there in March to check out the venue and the river is in the middle of the city and uh there are so many places where you can sit and hang and have a beer and uh it has really old buildings. Oh, there's a dog barking outside. It's okay. It's okay. We can cope. We can cope with the dogs. But um anyway, yeah, there you go. Thank you so much. And um we will I will be seeing you in a few short weeks time. That'll be fun. Uh okay. And the last person joining us, as I said, stepping in at the 11th hour. So, thank you very much is Dave Gray. Um, Dave started ourwplugins.com back in early 2023 and is the man behind administrator toolkit, the number one plug-in for site maintainers as voted for by himself, he says. No, I'll go with that too. You can There's two people now. Um, his toolkit aims to reduce client related headaches by preventing them from breaking things or poking around a production site when they aren't meant to. After 20 years in corporate life, sorry. Dave is soon to make a bait for freedom and is off to his first Word Camp Europe. So feel free to say hi. Oh. Oh. Oh. Yeah. That's so great. Oh, that's lovely. Three out of the four of us will be there soon. I've um I've I I've sent out a tweet this week um because um I'm going to be hanging out with Mark Wgcard who does WS. We're going to go driving for a couple of days before the event. and he he sent me an AI picture. Don't know if you saw it, but it was an AI picture of me and Mark in a car and somehow cheese and and uh and like cows and sausages and all ended up in the air and I thought it was hysterical so I tweeted it and then Jamie Jamie Marlin caught sight of it and I didn't know you could even do this. He plugged it into an AI. I think he said it was Cap Cot and something else and he made a video as with that as the first frame. What? Why are we not having this video? What? Well, it's a bit self-indulgent, I guess. I don't know. But, um, but it was it's so amazing. It, you know, literally there's a random image. That's the first frame. Now, carry on. And I don't know how much prompting you needed to do, but there was a road in the background. there was a car and it figured out that the car needed to, you know, drive down the road and the road would recede in the background. Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. So, okay, if you want to see it, I'll see if I can find it later. Um, I don't know. Uh, okay. So, apologies to anybody that's watching this because I don't really know how this platform works. So, excuse me for the weird way in which I handle comments and things like that. Uh, first of all, uh, Influence WP. So, that' be Ryan. Ryan saying hello from a sunny and pleasant 73 degrees Fahrenheit here in Charlotte, US. Well, hello too. Uh, and then we've got Nomad Skateboard saying I don't know what that emoji is. It's like looks like a zombie. Okay, zombie. All right. Okay. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know why, but uh I appreciate it. Hello there, beautiful people, says Marcus Bennett. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Wendy and Dave. This platform just completely destroys your faces. The other one moves people up. This one doesn't. Hey there, beautiful people. Happy Monday from an already uncomfortably warm Florida. Oh, dear me. Daveden says, uh, he is driving with Oh, driving with everything flying the air. Yeah, it was. That was the video I guess you're referring to. Um, who's this one? Big. It says it was a funny picture. Okay, I'm gonna have to find it now, aren't I? Uh, let me see if I can. Um, now that I'm on the communications team of the Word Camp Europe team, I retweeted it because I thought it was so funny. So, Oh, okay. Oh, is that you? I saw somebody from Word Camp Europe had retweeted it. So, yeah, thank you for that. Um, good morning from Seattle, says Cammy. Very nice to have you with us. Oh, it's a Gremlin. Yeah, I said in a tweet for this that probably there would be Gremlins because of the new platform. Got it. Thank you very much. Uh, Bigget joining us from Munich. We're at 7°. Yeah, that's about what we got here. Tammy Listister joining us. Happy Monday. Sun is shining here. And uh and yeah, there definitely are technical gremlins because most of the comments I can see two or three times. So uh this platform comes with bugs built in. Fabulous. Yeah, save time. Uh we'll see how we do. So I'm going to raise up the bits and pieces that we're going to talk about today. That is the intention. We are a WordPress podcast. Look at that. We all go to the wrong side for a start. I tried to upload a logo and a little preup. No, it wasn't having any of it. So whether or not we get to the end of this is anybody's guess. This is us wpbuilds.com. We are happily sponsored. Keeping the lights on over here. We got GoDaddy Pro, we've got Blue Host, and we've got Omnisend. If you happen to run into any of those companies, firstly, back away a little bit. It'll probably hurt, but secondly, say hi and say you uh you found them through WP Builds. So, thank you to GoDaddy Pro, Blue Host, and Omnis. If you want to keep in touch with what we're doing, stick your email address into this form. Click subscribe and uh we'll send you a couple of emails each each week. One will be tomorrow when this episode gets repurposed as a podcast audio and so on and then one on Thursday. And actually Beerot, who's in the comments, it's it's you uh is going to be on the podcast on Thursday. I was joined um to talk about uh all sorts of things that have been happening in the recent past in WordPress. So, it'll be me bigot and I want to summon up the person's name and it is totally gone out of my head and now I feel dreadful. There's a third guest and I cannot remember their name off the top of my head. This is what we did in the recent past. This product seems to be getting a bit of attention. I don't know if you've come across this. You come across WP sync sheets. So, I talked to um this fabulous chap and um he was talking about this product that he's built and essentially it will allow you to get a Google sheet, put your data into the Google sheet, map it to any point on your website. So, let's say for example, it's a Woo Commerce store, you can have your products, your images, all of it in a Google sheet, and when your website loads up, it will populate everything for you. And and it kind of sounds like a bit weird. Why would you want to do that? And and the point of it is well, if you've got clients that just don't want to deal with the interface of WordPress and logging in, but they're really familiar with spreadsheets. So, it's definitely worth checking out WP Sync Sheets. And I saw that Ryan, who's in the comments, he's had a bit of a he created a bit of a partnership, I think, since uh since we released that episode. And now I feel better. It's Fabian Kaggi. He was the person that joined us on the podcast. I am so sorry, Beet. Do forgive me. It is my adult 50year-old brain. Uh so that is our archive. You can find it just here wpbuilds.commpodcast-archive and uh yeah it his name was Arpit and this was the uh this was the piece in question. Definitely worth checking out. Okay, couple of bits more. If you are in the London area and you fancy coming to the WLDDN WordPress meetup, it's a meetup for WordPress people in the London area and you would like to speak there. Can I encourage you to uh get on the bandwagon quickly? Go to wlddn.ukspeak. We would love to have you. We've got quite a few slots open for the rest of the year. We do it at the end of end of the month on Thursday, last Thursday of the month. And um we're looking for some speakers. wpldn.ukspeak. And the very last one from me is this little chap. This has been a lot of time in the making. Page builder summit. It is starting next week and uh we're getting ready. I've I've chopped up all the audio and the video and we're creating the closed captions and getting the transcripts made and all of that. We're in, you know, we're in that sort of final little bit where it's all going to sort of get tied up, but it's starting next week. And if you want to join us, there are about 35 or so presentations plus a load of live networking sessions. If you stick your email address into this little Sometimes on this computer when I'm running live streaming software, I get that weird glitch where I click that button and it collapses to nothing. But it's only when I'm running a live thing. If you uh if you put your name and email into here, we will keep you updated. And uh yeah, you'll be able to see a list of the great and the good who are speaking there um over the next week. So look all these people coming to join us having a nice time. There you go. Right. There you go. That's me done. Let's move on. Let's talk about other stuff. All right. Canonical plugins. Don't know if you know what these are. The idea mooted a little while ago was that um wouldn't it be nice if a bunch of stuff that could be in WordPress but isn't quite corable, if you know what I mean. It doesn't quite meet the threshold to be into core. It'd be a good idea to set up a bunch of what what are called canonical plugins which have the same status in terms of updatedness and security checks and all of that as core but you would decide whether you want them or not. And uh Rey in the repository this week is writing a story about the idea of putting canonical plugins around accessibility. Um so in other words not focusing on accessibility in core but doing it as canonical plugins and uh this came from Matt Mulleng and the story goes like this. WordPress co-founder Matt Mullenwag has suggested that accessibility improvements could be developed as a canonical plug-in to help contributors respond more quickly to the needs of users who rely on assistive technologies. And I'm going to quote um I have so this is Mullenweg speaking now. I have always been deeply committed to accessibility as a core component of WordPress products. He said, "The idea of a canonical accessibility accessibility plug-in isn't about diminishing our commitment to accessibility at the core, but rather enhancing it. Such a plug-in could allow us to deliver specialized accessibility improvements and features faster than the core release cycle permits. Now, as you may imagine, um the pe the some of the people who are really into accessibility as their thing, they uh they're not entirely convinced that this is the best way to go. It's kind of just why not if it's an accessibility thing, why don't we just put it into core because that's where it belongs. So, I'm going to throw it over to you three and ask you what the heck do you when you when you think about it, it should be in the as a plugin because the core releases, even the point releases don't come out fast enough when things need to change. And if it's a plugin, they can make the changes in the plugin that'll impact the core a whole lot faster. And that way, it's like, oh, we got this new piece that needs to be in accessibility. Well, we don't have time to release a whole new version of WordPress in the core to get it in there, but just put it in the plugin, update the plugin. So, and if mentioned there that it is at the high priority of updating in the plugin or in the core as far as issues go with it, this would make it so that accessibility is more accessible and faster to it. Yeah, it's it's definitely an interesting idea. I I think I think I think it was being raised as an idea. I don't think anybody's saying this is what is going to happen. But um yeah. Yeah, Dave. Well, I can see that, but it's just that I see it as more responsive to it. Mhm. But on the flip side, from echoing Amber's sort of comments that if stuffs are in plugins, that makes it sound like it's optional and you don't need it. Oh, because if it's in core, it shows it's got the priority and it should be there. So, if you kind of had like SEO plugin, you can run a site without it. But accessibility, if you got some bits in core and some bits in a plug-in you can update more often, then are you trying to fix things in that bit versus the other way through? So, it's kind of partly the kind of how important it is versus the release schedule for it. So, I can see kind of John's point is easy to push things out more frequently, but it's also you'd need need to know about it and it kind of feels like it's a secondary thing because it's not as it should be. Like Windows Notepad in there, it's like how do you do stuff? Well, you just download it, but like we need it. It should be there. One of the things that I read, and I can't remember who it was. It may have been Joe Doulson, but forgive me Joe if I'm putting words into your mouth. Um, somebody was saying that this stuff it's not even going to be an option for certainly for Europeans in literally like what is it 6 weeks time or something like that. The um the European Accessibility Act basically compels you to do some of this work. Obviously, it's difficult to determine whether you are entirely accessible. Feels like more of a more of a goal, sort of a more of a journey, not a destination, if you know what I mean. But, um, if it's not in core and you miss it, you may well kind of regret when the uh when the ambulance chasing lawyer comes around and says, "What are you doing?" Um, Wendy, anything? There's a few comments, but Wendy, go for it. Yeah, I think I am um with Amber uh Amber Hint on this. She mentions in I think in uh in the article um that it basically creates double work. I mean every site should be accessible. So it should not be an option. It should be the starting point. So putting it in a plugin, even Canonical, uh would first of all it would create more work and second of all uh like Dave said, it would create the option to not have it and we don't want that. It it'd be interesting because this whole canonical plug-in thing, it's been talked about for I don't know 18 months or so now and I I don't see them in the wild yet. Maybe there's some sort of place where you can get them and what have you already, but I don't know that there is. But I I just don't know how they'll be surfaced inside of for example if you go to the the WordPress.org plug-in repository will they get like special treatment? Yeah. You install a new WordPress install will mention like hey we as WordPress recommend these plugins. Ah yeah I don't know. Um I um but I do think that with accessibility in many ways um it makes it better for everybody. So why why have it as an add-on and not as the standard? So I guess the argument would go something along the lines of you can be more versatile a bit like John was saying you can be more versatile if you put it into a plug-in because you can you know you don't have to worry about when the next release of WordPress is coming about if something can can happen more quickly that's good. And then the other side which we've heard from Dave and Wendy is more along the lines of well it's going to be an requirement. Why not just put it in core because it might be difficult for people to find these things. Let's have a look what the comments say. Smart things to say about this as well. Okay, nice. Okay, thank you. So, uh, sorry, I do apologize Dave and, uh, Wendy, I have no idea how to make it so that your face is not destroyed by the comments, but that's just the way this platform works. Tammy Listister says, "One thing to note on this is that design and other focus areas have had she's disappearing. Wendy's no longer accessible. Have you seen that? She's literally become inaccessible. Um the other areas have had plugins for feature focus for a while. It's a balance and I think we need to remember that. Uh it's not about focusing on it in core and nothing is simple Tammy nothing is simple but also for a double one ally things have variable needs. Again, it it's all it's about us having a conversation and exploring uh to make it all accessible as a baseline. Cameron Jones uh chips in. Hello Cameron joining us probably from the other side of the planet in Australia. I don't think it's a bad idea as such. It'll definitely help get things moving faster, especially with one major release per year. Okay, so that's the wrinkle, isn't it? That's the bit which makes this all the more plausible maybe because if we've just got this one I know there's going to be minor releases and what have you but uh but the critics all make very valid arguments. Uh that hasn't been the case for design though as having it for design features allowed us to explore and then fully bake to bring it in. I like that using the plug-in or plug-in construction to experiment, see what works and then if you have something solid, move it to core. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Interesting. So canonical then being like a testing it's like the a testing ground. I actually might be a language thing. I don't know what canonical means. Canonical is like the authoritative source of something. It's like the the original the the immutable perfect copy of something the first if you know what I mean. Um so that will contradict the experimenting and we'll see how it goes. Yeah. Well, it does in that sense. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it does. Um okay, let's move on. So, we got Daveden not moving on, just carrying on with the comments. I feel accessibility updates is about removing barriers and fixing problems in core. So putting a plugin first sounds a bit weird. Um, be it works well with the performance team. So it being canonical plugins, the idea of putting things in a plug-in with performance. Okay. It works well with the performance team. They push things into a plug-in and then when it's further explored and tested, it makes it into core. Okay. Um, and then Tammy chimes in and says indeed it's worked well with all the teams. Um, where are we now? Tammy carrying on. Lots of comments today. This one's got you going, hasn't it? I think the conversation needs to be made around it. Is it canonical experiments or is it other? Again, it's critical to explore. It's not just about having an add-on. So, um, canonical does have a certain status. If something is considered to be a canonical plug-in, it gets that security update and it gets the um uh the the sort of you know the the it's inspected in the same way as if it was core. Basically, it's treated by the the teams as a piece of core but just separated from core. So, it gets all of those checks and balances and uh yeah, wow, what a lot. I don't know what I think on it, but I I can definitely see conversations happening on both sides, and it seems to be that uh well, we'll wait and see, but it's been mooted by none other than Matt, so we'll see where that goes. All right. Should we move on? Do you reckon that one's done? Am I getting any nods? Yeah. Okay, great. All right. In which case, let us go to here. This really, there's nothing to say here except just, you know, if you're running WordPress websites for clients, you should have moved over to the latest version 6.8.1. 8.1, which just goes to show there are m minor releases happening. It does seem to be stable. I've upgraded it on a few of my client sites. So, yep, I've kind of given up. When I when I started in the WordPress space, I I did this whole thing of waiting like for three or four days and letting everybody else experiment and then I would I just gave up on I still I still do because the experiences I've had over the last 18 years of WordPress is you'll go for a very long time with a perfect release and then all of a sudden you'll get one that your particular configurations will just cause it. So I just wait. Yeah. And it was a good thing on this one because there was a whole lot of error codes that were thrown out. They weren't errors, they were warnings, but if you had the debug turned on in your site, which some people do and don't realize, all of a sudden errors are appearing on your site or you think they're errors. So, the um is it's it's kind of interesting. Um the the the thing that I've got nowadays with the hosting companies that I use, you know, you click a button and get a staging site, you wait for like 40 seconds. Yeah. And you got a perfect replica of the site. When I began with WordPress, none of that stuff was really as easy as clicking a button, you know. No, it was very hard back in the early days. Now it's easier. Yeah. Even my even my offerings have that. Click a button, get a staging site. Yeah. I did a I did an interview with Andy Fraan uh quite a while ago now, probably about 18 months or something, where he was talking about the the plug-in roll back feature which is now in WordPress. So hopefully if anything does go wrong specifically around a plug-in um then it will roll back and obviously we've got core um updating itself and you've got the option to update. So all of these lovely little interesting initiatives certainly do help. Anyway, you should be on WordPress 6.8.1 by now. That's really all there is to say about that. Okay. Next piece then is and I I have never done this before and uh so just let me have a moment if you don't mind. Uh a friend of mine who I've interviewed on the podcast, really nice chap uh he's called Leo Gapal or Gopal. He uh he reached out to me the other day um with a fairly heartfelt plea and it really tugged at my heartstrings. He's a he's a WordPresser. He's been in the community for many many years. is he's done an awful lot of good in the community. And if you've ever listened to him speaking on any podcast or you met him in person, you will know that Leo is a thoroughly nice person. Like, you know, when you know somebody's just really really deep down a nice person. That's Leo. And he reached out to say that he his mother sadly is is very unwell. And I won't go into all of that, but basically she's unwell in a way that requires some fairly experimental treatment in order to make her well again. And experimental treatment in the part of the world where Leo lives uh is fairly expensive. And um and so he said, "Is there any chance that you could smuggle into your podcast episode a plea on my behalf?" And I said, "Sure." So this is it. Um, if you have any, you know, if there's any money in your bank account which is doing nothing and you feel like being a a good citizen in the WordPress space, then, uh, Leo's got a website where you can go, maybe give, I'm not sure, give WPP, something like that. But it's called goals, gals.com. I didn't know that was a domain. Uh, m o n. And um I don't need to tell you what it's all about. You can go and find out for yourself if you have an intuition that this is something that you would like to help Leo out with and uh get from he's currently managed to raise uh 1,000 just over $1,000 of the $8,000 that were needed. And I can tell you that the figure is a lot higher uh than that as well. Then uh go and check it out. Gopals gals do mom. We say mom over here. M O M. So, uh, I I have I'm not going to ask the anybody else to contribute to that, but, um, anyway, there we go. So, Leo, best of luck with that campaign. I hope that it hope that it brings you everything that you want. Okay. Uh, Dave, I know you've launched products in the past. I have never launched products in the past, but I am going to be launching a product in the near future. And uh and I've actually spoken with Alex who is the the founder of Siren Affiliates uh quite a lot and I'm guessing that this story is quite a thing which gets repeated in the WordPress space and it's one of he calls it a stalled launch and what he means by that is there's this great moment where you've built the website, you've built the plug-in, you've built the theme or the blog, whatever it may be, you spent absolutely ages doing it. you get it out there, you go on all the podcasts, the blog posts get written and it sells for a bit and then it basically just stops, you know, it it just doesn't carry on. That momentum doesn't carry on. Everybody gets excited by the latest new thing and so on. And um and so in this piece, he's trying to figure out how to do that. and he's come up with this in interesting way which I know that lots of people have explored before of uh partnerships launching the product not just by yourself but in with many many other partners people whose product can fit in with yours or bolt on to yours or whatever it may be and so Dave I'm just going to ask you as the the product owner uh amongst us have you ever you ever had this you ever had this like it's going to be a great success and then okay it was for a bit and then it dead quiet very much. So I've not had a chance to read this through yet, but I will this afternoon. But yeah, for my sort of admin tool kit on there kind of got like some initial sales through a Facebook group mentioned on that side and say like in the 10 number on that side. So still sort of low but when you gone from nothing it's like oh actually done something then you kind of get a few other sort of deals and bits around the place and then it's case like right it's some people have installed it some haven't and then it's a case how to then kind of market it and get more people aware on these things. So yes, it's very much like a common problem around there of kind of if you launch it, they will come and then they just disappear again and what happens longer term on there. It's like people say like, oh do US for long-term strategy, but like if you're trying to make something that people don't necessarily know that they need and could benefit from, it's a case of how to reach and educate them sort of through. So yeah, that's the problem is endless this time, but also it's just like like you've got, you know, if you're doing the plug-in coding, you you probably really don't want to be spending a lot of time doing the SEO piece which will be never ending. There'll just be no end in sight to that. You know, you want to get excited about the code and what have you. And and I honestly in the WordPress space having interviewed many many people over many many years, this story is so familiar to me. And so it was kind of nice seeing uh seeing Alex kind of write it up and figure actually let's spread the problem out a bit. Let's get other people to help me. And uh and I can definitely point to a few examples in the WordPress space where you just join forces with people. They don't need to be massively successful already, but maybe together you can sort of share out the burden of doing the SEO, writing the pieces which combine. I'll tell you which company is brilliant at this and that's MainWP. Um MainWP have got a fantastic product. It's like an updater plugin for WordPress and it does so much more. You install it on your on a WordPress site and then you can bind your other sites to it and it will update the things and it just does absolutely loads. You can go and check it out. But because it does absolutely loads, they can find loads of partners that they can partner with and then they can do press releases. They can keep it fresh. They can go to other new audiences that didn't exist for them before. Um, but yeah, so good luck. Good luck, Alex. Uh, I hope it goes well. Wendy, anything? John, anything on that? Yeah, actually uh we are looking for something like this for Word Camp Europe, a partnership sort of thing. Yeah. Yeah. So presumably not as a product, you're more after like media people or what is it you're after? So the thing we are looking for is people who are not active in the WordPress community yet, but do have a WordPress website. So, we would really, really like to have some new people come to the work camp because at work camps, let's be fair, it's very often people we already know and people we love and we love seeing those people, but um word camps could use some new fresh people coming to the word camp. The thing is, how do we reach them and how do we let them know that the word camp is happening? So we talked with um people from the marketing uh team for uh WordPress.org and they said well uh find influencers who are not in the WordPress uh ecosystem. Oh interesting. And we talked about that in a team and realized we don't know any we only know WordPress influencers. Yeah. So how and that's where we are now. Yeah. It's kind of interesting because where would you even land? Like what kind of people would you be looking for? So would it be like techreated? I don't know podcasters or tech journalists or would it be kind of like leaning into the people who are creating events? There's probably a whole industry of people creating events. That would be kind, you know, that'd be a interesting bunch to talk to. Well, that would be interesting to come to a word camp. I mean, I think it would be people that at least have a website or use a website or so. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know how you would Yeah, I think that's a really difficult not to crack, isn't it? Oh, maybe travel bloggers or artists or people who are also who would also be interested in gaining uh visibility with with the crew that Yeah. So, you're not trying to drum up new speakers or anything like that. This is just about attracting a different new audience of people that will show up to the event and be in the crowd and Yeah. Okay. Okay. Yeah. That that's it. I think one of the um one of the things that I often notice when I go to the big flagship WordPress events is how old the audience is, how it skews towards older rather than younger. Um you know, you look around, there's quite a handful of people who are, I don't know, let's say 45 plus. But if you were to look for anybody below 20, there's not many really. It's, you know, in in the era of Tik Tok and all of those fabulous things that you can do on Yeah. Tik Tok people. Yeah. Tik Tok people. There you are. That's it. You've done it. if you can get through to the Tik Tok people. And the the curious thing is if you could get through to like one Tik Tok just just one person who's got like this huge reputation on something like Tik Tok, it it it's transformational, you know, it'll be seen by millions of people, but it's it's trying to get those people to spend time talking about a WordPress event. So, comments the uh so I'm open it up to the chat. If you've got any ideas that Wendy can take out of this, just keep dropping. Okay, here. We did do a cut from the previous uh podcast I was on with you. So, we cut out the little piece where I say segue promoting Word Camp Europe. Oh, did we? Did that get cut out? Yeah. And that got uh shared on Instagram and on Tik Tok. Oh, that way it got cut out. It didn't nothing by the way, but oh well. It's worth a try. Um what about this one then? So, uh, Daveden has made a suggestion. He says, uh, sounds interesting. You could target graphic design influencers. Come up with a poster to advertise the event. You got the great city, you got the great venue, you got the I mean, we got this great example of two guys driving. Yeah. Two guys flying sausages, cheese, you know, that's all you, honestly, all you need is AI. You just need AI to make some stupid flying sausage thing and you're you're off to the races. Um, that is a good idea though. I like that. Graphic designers. That's a cool idea, isn't it? Because there's tons of stuff in that in the conference itself that would be about that. But having a competition for a poster, for example. I don't know. Um, Peter is joining us. She says hello. Hello, Wendy. Hello. Um, and Michelle Fett's joining us. She's saying hello as well. So, dear commenters, if you're watching this and you um and you've got any ideas, so what Wendy's trying to achieve is she's trying to get more people to come to Word Camp Europe and uh innovative ways that she can market the event that aren't the normal traditional ways. Uh John Dave, have you got any idea ideas for Wendy? I don't think um not not off the top of my head. It's to it is a matter of finding the younger audiences and figuring out how to attract them into it because your younger audiences are not using websites as much as they are apps and Tik Tok and even my boys who are starting to get in towards their 20s and they they're their games. They're big in their in their video games, but they're not using websites yet. Like even when I was big into video games, I'd build a website for the game. Yeah. I I just don't even know if I don't even know if the the younger people want that kind of online presence that we that we I don't I don't know that we craved an online like a a website or if it was just that's what landed that was the first thing to land was websites. If that was it. Yeah. If somebody had come up with if the first thing that had gone online was Tik Tok, would anybody have wanted to build a website? You know, if YouTube had come before um websites, would anybody care about websites? It's kind of interesting. That's a good question. Yeah, I never thought about that one. Um because my kids I I keep constantly trying to bang on the drum of you've got to own your content. You've got to own your content. Even if you put the stuff on YouTube, write the thing on your website, then post the video on, you know, embed it into your website because then at least it's in caption and and if it goes away on YouTube or they kill your account, at least you've got something. Yeah. They just don't care. The ephemeral nature of it is part of the deal. That's the DNA of the internet to them. It's just like, I don't care. I'll do something else tomorrow. It's my homework from school. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. That's exactly what it is. Yeah. Um, so there you go. Tik Tok is the norm, says Dave. Exactly. There's um Dave Dunn, I should say. Not Dave. There's Well, there you go. I think we've answered your question, uh, Wendy. You need to find Tik Tockers, right? Or start my own channel real quick. Yeah. Start your own channel really quick. Yeah. And it seems like to be successful on Tik Tok, you've just got to do something either like massively offensive or really dangerous or videos. kind of person I am. I prefer doing either offensive or very dangerous things. I don't know. My my videos of my dog are getting lots of hits on my Tik Tok channel. Yeah. Really? Tell us more. You've got a dog channel. I have Well, not a dog channel. Just I I I'm every once in a while I remember Oh, yeah. I've got Tik Tok and Oh, I've got this cool video of my dog running into the water playing with sticks, gravel on the ground. You know, I throw them on Tik Tok. They get more more audience than when I throw them up on my uh on my Twitter channel. Honestly, it's infuriating, isn't it? There was a guy and Dave will I imagine Dave will remember this. There's a a guy in the UK who during lockdown, he was a BBC sports commentator. He's a fairly famous Scottish, he's got a very famous voice because he's obviously doing, you know, football commentary and things like that. He did he did a few YouTube videos of his dogs. Everybody was stuck at home and he just he's got these two dogs and I can't remember their names. I think one was called Mabel and one was called They just went absolutely viral cuz he did commentary like it was a football match of of his dogs doing ordinary things, you know, like, okay, so she's picking up the she's picking up the ball. She's going to pass it anytime now. She's going to pass it. And there we go. Oh, tremendous move. And all the dog had done is just like moved a ball a couple of inches. But that it just went absolutely nuts. It spawned a book series and everything. So anyway, says it's Mabel and Olive. Mabel and Olive. Did you remember it or have I just told you? Mabel and Olive. Uh, I adore them, says Peach. There you go. Okay. Sorry. It was really nice talking to you. I now need to go. I need to find dog videos. You do. You got to go and Yeah, you do. You do. There's a couple of ideas, though. Uh, here we go. Get younger getting younger folks to word camps might be the best way into WordPress. Convincing them to v Oh, convincing them to vacation in Switzerland is much easier them to get them to build a site. We've been going about it backwards. So, that's an interesting one. Like labor the amazing venue and the amazing location rather than the software. Like have a nice time in Switzerland and whilst you're at it, come to uh come and see some old folk. Yeah, that's right. Come and see some old folk. I like it. That should do it. Um, journaling your progress has also been growing. Journaling for mental health. That's not something you can do quickly on Tik Tok. Okay. So, journaling. Oh. Oh. Oh. So, journaling back to the days of uh of blogging. So, only they've given it a new name. So, James, do you mean by that that that maybe Wendy should start like just a little Tik Tok each day or something like that outlining something that has happened? You know, the good, the bad, the terrible, the hair pulling, the brilliant of of organizing the event, the bit of the event that she's organizing that honestly I would find that quite compelling. Wendy, I thought about that um doing that last year when I was one of the lead organizers. Um but I felt we there should be consensus uh about that. Oh amongst all of us and there wasn't so. Oh okay. Darn it. Okay. Yeah. Unfortunately there's a committee that you got to I guess you got to drive that through a little bit. And it's not a committee, but we were three lead organizers. And if I was going uh do a video every day or every week about what is going on, it will give away some of the things that we are might not uh very that we want to have public. Um I am I am very much for transparency. I think that I I am I think that more people especially people coming or people not coming doesn't matter need to realize that work camp is organized by volunteers and they do a lot of work and nobody is seeing it because we spend like the whole year working on organizing the event. Yeah. And people are like yeah the food was not that good this year. Uh that that must be so soul destroying. Uh, you know, you've put your heart in I'm all the complaints. That's right. And all that people can remember is, well, the samosas weren't all that great. You know, weather could have been better. Yeah, the the weather. I mean, what the heck? Yeah, there you go. That's quite a funny thing to do your Tik Tok about like the complaints. You know, this is what we did. We busted a gut and then we got this, but in a light-hearted way, you know, we organized a word camp. What have you done this week on shower? Well done. Yeah, exactly. Why we get to wear a halo this week and you do not. Um, so I think there's some interesting ideas in there. So, we're expecting by this time next week, Wendy, that you've got a million followers on TikTok and you've done something brilliant and Word Camp Europe will be just massive. And the pressure, the pressure. Um, so all of this started because we were talking about Alex Standerford and his his relaunch uh with partners of his um of his plug-in which is called Siren Affiliates. So that was quite Let's move on. Uh oh. Yeah. Sorry. But I didn't really have anything to Sorry. You hit your You hit your bandwidth limit, Nathan. Yeah. What happened? My bad. You you glitched out. You're back. You glitched out. It's all good. Ah, good. Good. Yeah. I'm not I really don't have a lot of confidence in this platform. So, I I described it to you as I think we're hanging by a thread. And that thread was bought from a shop called Cheap and Dodgy Threads. Um, so we'll just see how we go. Uh, well, I'm back. So, this one, the next piece up for discussion today is uh from Rey again. It's the repository, and it's a it's a recap of Press Conf. We didn't really talk about it last week because essentially the nature of that conference was that it was like quite secret like obviously it happened that wasn't secret that was public and everybody knew that lots of people were going and all that but the they took a different approach that there were no cameras recording any of the sessions. There was no mics to record anything and um and so you the people that were attending it weren't really writing okay I did this and I spoke to these people and we did this and we did that. So, it was much more of a muted event, but in this piece, um, Rey pulls it pulls it apart and sort of explains why she liked it. And I think she really really liked it. Uh, she's sort of sort of almost like evangelical about how much she liked it, you know, bringing back what the community wanted. She's got different headlines. She's very very enthusiastic about um, uh, Raquel, who organized it, and how wonderful. To be fair, Raquel is amazing. Yeah. But I mean, even with Raquel being amazing, it sounds like this was on another level of amazing. It sounds like Raquel went like 10x on it all. And and also Raquel, I think, was fairly um human in the way that she uh approached that. You know, she was talking about the fact that it kind of brought us to tears. It was the best thing that had ever happened, but also at the same time it was, you know, tough and all of those kind of things. But the bottom line I think is that it was it was just a brilliant event. It was an event which because it was small 144 people showed up. There was a lot of conversation. There was a lot of opportunity to bump into people more than once. Whereas a bigger event maybe you'll hit somebody one time. Hit hit somebody one time. There's a Tik Tok there. Um you you sort of collide collide. That's the wrong word as well. You bump into somebody. That's the wrong word as well. you you meet somebody once only and then you move on and you spend the rest of the time, you know, meeting other new people. At this event, you were definitely meeting people over and over and over again. Um uh curiously, there was a bit in here where she says that um Mary Hubard, who was there on behalf of Automatic, she's the executive director of the WordPress project. uh at one point when she was up on the stage, she had to be she there was so so so much concern about her personal safety given the fact that she she has received some fairly uh challenging I think they even say death threats. She had she had a bodyguard with her and the response that some of the things got during the session was such that the bodyguard apparently made their presence felt like got up and kind of made it aware to everybody in the audience that you know I'm the bodyguard. you're gonna have to deal with me if you want to get to Mary. And I thought that was curious. Um, you know, interesting that that there was just a different flavor to the kind of Q&A. It obviously, you know, it was passionate and all of those kind of things. Um, but the bottom line was what a fabulous event. I'm guessing that it'll be run again next year. Um, but I don't know. I really want to go. Yeah, I think everybody really wants to go. I already wanted to go, but it was, you know, super far and um really no business reason to go. Um yeah, me neither. Me neither. So, it wasn't something that was on my radar. And also, as you can see, if you're looking at the screen, apparently Miriam Schwab is a badass. That's what um that's what it says on the screen. I did an episode of my the nice show with Mark Wgcard not that long ago and I I I pointed out just how fabulous Miriam Schwab was on that as well. So, uh definitely worth reading if you um if you go to WordPress events in your location and you think you maybe you know try something a bit different then it looks like press conf was that. Hey hey hey there you go Wendy talk to Raquel. get Raquel on the line and see what she did differently and uh you know make a Tik Tok about it. It's all about the Tik Toks apparently. Yeah. I I want to point out one thing that Bergot is saying in the comments uh about the the fact that Mary needs a bodyguard is quite distressing people. It's madness, right? Total madness. It's it's insane. People not being happy that they're not able to do a Q&A. Okay. I can understand that you want to do Q&A, but also sending death threats to someone because they're doing their job. Uh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um can I just point out that my the old platform that I normally use scrolls the comments into view so I can see when there's new comments. This platform doesn't do it. And so I apologize. I've been missing all the comments that have been coming in in the last minute or two. And sorry, I didn't even know they were there. Um, so if you've said something, hopefully the other people on the um, you know, who are watching it live have been able to share the things. So, where was that one? Who was that? Beerot. Really? Yeah, there you go. Beerot right at the end there. Really sad to be a part of a community where Mary needs a bodyguard. I guess the the the sort of how to say it, the seesaw, the other side of the seesaw there is there. Thankfully, there's not many in the community that seem to behave like that. My experience in the WordPress community has been just stellar 100% of the time. So, uh, whoever that was, I, uh, I hope they, uh, you know, have a long hard think about it. Uh, it was a privilege to speak there, says Tammy. Yeah, she was there. Michelle Fchette was there. She said, "I loved Press Comp." Yeah. Rub it in. Rub it in. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. See, see Wendy, your natural kind of um your natural the way that you're do I'm already engaging with you like yeah rub it in. There's a great Tik Tok video there. You could you could read through this article about how great press conference and oh yeah yeah do do that do that. Yeah. Even Ray was there. I mean if you ever have a chance for all people listening if you ever have a chance to interact with Ry from the the respiratory is that how repository? Yeah, repository. Um, do it. She is amazing. I shall do that in three days time. I'm having a chat. We have a we have a threemonly podcast together and uh and it's coming around this actually. Yeah. Thursday. So, I shall be doing hard eyes were a thing in the physical world, Rey would definitely bring up mine. If what? Hard eyes, you know, the eyes. Yeah. Oh, that's nice. It was an excellent conference. Zach, Ray is amazing, says Cameron. And uh there we go. At that point, we can uh move on. So, Prescom basically gets the thumbs up, I think, from everybody. Dave, John, anything to add before we I just need to bring it to Europe so everyone else can get there easier. Then Wendy can have an actual, you know, falling out with them. The only thing I like Go on, John. The only thing I liked about watching and uh hearing about press conference, it reminded me of the uh early days of word camps that I attended. Oh yes. Yeah. That was what it reminded me of is how the early word camps were because we had two or three of them here in Victoria that I spoke at and helped organize back in the early days. So I also remember being young at a word camp. I mean you see you've got all the things you that's just brilliant. You could just record stuff like that. Wendy, have courage and go for it. I will uh I will be your most avid follower. Um so there you go. Press conf. It's a bit of a win. And if if it does come to you, I bet she's planning it in Europe. You've got to imagine the success that it's had over in the uh in the US, you got to imagine there's some moves. Uh agree with Marcus. What did Marcus say? Let's go back. Right. Okay. So, first of all, Cammy, this is happening for many corporate execs in the US, not just WP Luigi effect. I don't know what Luigi effect is, but bodyguard thing, I think. Is that something to do with um those two characters from the video game? What? Oh, look how old I am. It's the guy who think shot the uh corporate guy from an insurance company. Oh, okay. Okay. Okay. I was thinking of the video. What is that video? That's it. I'm so aging myself. Uh the video game call them video games, do they? Okay. So, it wasn't that anyway. Um and I'm I'm laughing at a moment where I really shouldn't, but because you're absolutely right. Yeah. So, um it's happening all over the place. It's not just WordPress. People seem to be um yeah, very very confident in their assertions and uh very confident to go around uh verbally beating people up. Tammy and Miriam says Marcus Banets. He said their talks were worth the price of admission alone. Nice. That is nice to hear. A thousand. No, how much is that? That's a hund,000% agrees with Marcus. Um, and then there's that. I won't read it into the record, but you can see it on the screen. Yeah. Gosh. Um, there we go. All right. So, moving on from Press conf. This probably won't matter to either of you. I don't know. Or any of you. I don't know if uh it matters, but here we go. The um the Merkantile, which is the official WordPress swag shop, uh has had a bit of an update. I don't actually know what it used to look like, but this is what it looks like now. So, it wasn't like this and now it's like this. Do you buy any WordPress? Do you buy like WordPress? No. Can I just go on a total rant? Oh, go on. Yeah. Oh, wait, wait, hang on. You see, you're really good at this. You're so good at this. Off you go. Wind her up. Yeah. So the thing is their biggest size is 2XL which doesn't fit. So they should extend the sizes because we are talking about accessibility but uh being inclusive in your sizing is also accessibility people. It's important when you create products you want people to buy make it size inclusive. Okay. All right. Yeah. I I hear you. Um, so this I guess does not have that. Um, yeah, but you can buy, you know, hoodies, t-shirts, the usual effect. I don't see any caps. Let's go browse to the store. Let's browse the store. What can we get? Is any of this jumping off the peg for you, John Dave? Any of this? I'm just Does it run on WordPress in Woo Commerce or if it's something bespoke? Yeah. Oh, I don't know. Let's click I'm not going to click the buy now button, but yeah. Oh, little tiny children ones. They're kind of cute. They're kind of cute. Uh, and then I guess that's a one piece. What else have we got? Oh, here we go. So, it's not all clothes. You can buy little I don't know. I want to call it a Phylax, but it's a mole skin notebook. You can buy all these bits and pieces. Anyway, it's now been brought into line with all the other brand stuff. So, uh, you can find it at merkantile.wordpress.org, which wasn't really a thing that I knew about. Okay, back to Ry and the repository. We've already established how great Rey is. So, this is the news that maybe this will sort of like put an end to a lot an ongoing story that's been going on since August. Maybe this won't end it. I don't know. Several accounts were um were were taken offline, banned. Well, I don't really know what the right word is, but quite a few people in the WordPress community, prominent people had their permissions revoked for things like WordPress.org and Slack. And in some cases, they were people who were doing, you know, who were really involved in the nuts and the bolts. In the article, I think Ryan McHugh, who lives in the UK, I think Ryan's Australian, but he lives in the UK now, um, who is was a core committer. I don't know what the posture there is. Uh his his um capacity to commit was taken away. A bunch of other people famously Yos Devulk and a variety of others their access was taken away. Well, now all of them are having their access restored um to all the things and essentially they're going to go back through are going back through since August and they're trying to unpick and uh bring all these accounts back. So, I don't know. Maybe this marks the end of something or maybe it just for some I don't know. What are your thoughts in the comments as well as uh as on the show wondering does it also mean that Yoast is not a persona non grata anymore? Well, that was a personal statement, wasn't it? I don't know if that was done in the spirit of WordPress.org. That was that. So that was a comment that Matt Mullenweg made about Yoast and there was quite a lot that he said prior to that, wasn't there? He he made, you know, he he said a bunch of things about the relationship that they'd had to I don't know in in all honesty. I'm not sure. But um yeah. So does this then mean that that was a mistake or that they've just sort rethought the policy? I don't know. I think there was um I'm I'm not really sure, but there was a something something with the lawsuit that happened last week where it was also mentioned. So maybe it had something to do with that. Oh, okay. So you've got some intel there that I didn't pick up on. So part of the ongoing lawsuit between Automatic and WP Engine, was there some it I'm not holding you for this to be true, but do you have a recollection that there was some aspect of these accounts that was brought up that might have been the catalyst for this reversal of the position? Yeah, there was a uh there was [Music] a conversation in post status I think. Okay. uh about [Music] um the the guy who also filed the thing, William. Oh, yeah. There was Yeah, I don't remember that person's name. That person. Okay. Uh so maybe and it datewise it kind of lines up if it it if it has to do with showing hey we are doing what you asked us. Uh see we are unblocking everybody. So yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. Um, and it would it would appear that this is now the official position. I don't really know how long it's going to take to go back through and unpick all of that, but there we go. I would love it to be um them reconsidering and thinking, hey, this was just stupid. Let's fix it. Um, Nomad Skateboarding, thank you. Says, uh, that's not a legal document. That's what the plaintiff is asking the judge to rule. Honestly, I just so don't understand the law. So, um I'll I'll take what you said as as read. Wendy is talking about the latest document listed in court listener. Okay. Thank you. Oh, there's some there's some people watching this story closely, isn't there? There's there's quite a few. Yeah, I wonder. Yeah, I wonder if they see this as like a a good move or, you know, whether it was um something that was forced or what have you. For me, it draws a line under that at least. Anyway, I'm just glad that these 32 um people are now able to communicate with the people that they're they were able to communicate with. Whether or not they um they have the same, you know, posture towards WordPress um in the future will will remain to be seen. But there you go. Uh repository WordPress leadership reinstates 32 banned WordPress.org accounts and launches formal review. Yeah, I think uh No, Nomad has a good Nomad skateboarding. I don't know who it is, but uh he has a good point. People should stop sharing documents they don't understand. I agree. But also um if new documents come up um and it is being discussed um I don't know anything about it but I am following closely and I don't understand legal documents. So, if someone could could explain what I'm looking at, it uh it's super helpful because someone is sending me the stuff and then I don't know what to do with it. Uh so, I don't do anything with it, but in the post status conversation, people explain what we are actually looking at. So, that helpful. Thank you. And then Cameron Cameron, you're still with us. Good grief, young man. It's uh it's time for you to, you know, really think about bedtime. I would say but uh here we go. Thank you. I appreciate your comments. Uh Matt wants WP to drop that stands for WP Engine. Uh Matt wants word WP Engine to drop the suit if that were to happen or if they were to settle out of court. I imagine WP Engine would want people on band. Uh and then he says we might be getting closer to a resolution. Okay. So you think it or maybe a maybe something that's happening in the background to sort of smooth over this whole thing? Interesting. Yeah, I'm glad we've got clever people in our audience because I honestly can't work this stuff out by myself. Um uh this this article needs clever people because look, it's got charts and maps and as soon as soon as I Oh, Wendy's swooning. Oh, a pie chart is is all it takes. Um this this is lovely. Actually, this is um Juel Shahajan Jewel who is from uh WP Manage Ninja. they they do the fluent product. So, Fluent CRM, Fluent Forms, that kind of thing. And um he has been going through he did on the April the 20th at least anyway. Uh some of the some of the intel the data surrounding the latest release of WordPress. So, 6.8. And I think some of it in in when you just write it out, it doesn't really mean a lot, but when you see it in a chart, not only do you swoon, but also it just makes it easier for my adult brain to get a hold of it. So, here's the first one. Apologies for people who are listening to this on the podcast. I will do my best. It is a chart saying uh WordPress core contributors across recent releases. So it goes back from 5.0 right up to now 6.8. And the remarkable thing is this one 6.8 had more contributors 924 than any other during that period which everything that's been going on I find quite fascinating. I would have almost bet you that that would have been in decline, but I'm just going to rely on his chart. Anything on that one before we move on to the next exciting chart? I'm just partly wondering whether if some of the funded or other core contributors have been doing less. So, there's been more people doing smaller parts to bump the overall number up. That be my guess without looking into the numbers. Okay. So, the numbers might be a little bit more uh inspection. So you're saying that because people who are I don't know their full-time like just succumbed to do it full-time if they stepped away maybe 10 people have filled in the void that that one person Okay interesting okay that's a complete guess but that's my only sort of thought on that side of other countries having more involvement and maybe they've got more people doing smaller chunks. Yep. Yep. This one I would have predicted and this is a real swing towards um towards India in particular. So this is a uh it's a map and it's got colored in uh sections and basically the the darker the blue the more contributors uh are from that particular region and really the only dark things on the map are the United States of America uh and India. So they appear to be the place where most contributors are coming from. Australia and Japan also notably dark. And given the population of Australia, that's quite an interesting statistic, you know, because what is it 25 million or something in Australia, India 1.4 billion or something like that. America 400 million. Australia maybe really punching above its weight. So let's just move on. Here we go. This this explains it even better. So um WP 6.8 percentage contributions by country, United States in the lead but only just 13.9% followed by 13.7% by India. So if this was like a 100 meter race, America won it by a nose. They just got over the line in like a millisecond before India did. Japan third. Interesting. Australia fourth. Blammy neck. Then Georgia. Okay, Georgia. That's f fantastic. Italy is in next position. Then the United Kingdom and I'll just read a few out. Uh Spain, Bulgaria, Russia, France, Algeria, and then the slices of the pie get smaller and smaller. But uh that's fascinating from from for me the Australia. Well, the pivot to India and Japan is kind of interesting. The um yeah, it definitely happening over there. Uh that's more or less the same graph. Um kind of very similar. And then here we go. Thought this was kind of interesting. Companies that make this work happen. You know what's going to be the big one? Uh automatic. Although you know what what would happen if we redrew the graph now? Yeah. Yeah. It' be a different graph I imagine because automatic along with many other companies have really stripped things right back. But for this data it stands automatic at nearly 40% 37.9 RT camp. Come on. Um RT camp interviewed Rahul from RT camp. What a what a guy. Fascinating. They just put their money where their mouth is. Go Daddy in third position followed by Kinster then Yoast. Ten up. Well, and then Yos will be dropping as well because they dropped a lot of contributors. Yeah. So, okay, let me do that again. Automatic RT camp GoDaddy Kinster Yos 10 up. And then in a category all his own, Jonathan Dez Rosas, he he comes in at what's that? One, two, three, four, five, six. Seventh all by himself. That's so good. I think uh sponsored I should say by Blue Host but I don't know quite how that whole thing works because Bluehost is the next that's amazing to be your own company and yeah yeah doing it but but also he's working for Blue Host and Blue Host is the next company down so I don't I don't know if like the two the contribution he's doing are not the counting as the ones uh that Blue Host is sponsoring so he's basically sponsoring himself Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Doing stuff for Blue Host contributing. Wow. Yeah. It's amazing, right? Um and uh Yeah. So, that's that graph. And then where can we go here D? There was uh Yeah, there's sort of similar uh Oh, yeah. Here we go. And then we've got uh individuals. This one is individual rankings. And honestly, some of these are nuts. uh Mama Dooka who works for GoDaddy who is based in Georgia. So I think this individual sponsored by GoDaddy is the reason that Georgia was on that graph. They win like it's a competition. They win. Uh 546 contributions. Somebody called Wild Works who works for Kinster is not far behind but there's definitely a gap. 461 contributions. Tai Axler, an automatician coming from Bulgaria. Now we see there's quite a big gap 274. Sergey Berikov working at Blue Host 260. And then you can see the uh the line there. There's Jonathan 189. So I don't quite know how the one graph leads into that one. If Jonathan is that I don't know. I don't know how that works. Anyway, the bottom line is thank you all of you whether you're from my part of the world or a different part of the world. That's uh that's quite a lot to take in, isn't it? I I but the takeaway for me is how Europe it's it's WordPress is becoming a thing over sort of you know the India side of the world, the Australia side of the world, the Japan side of the world. It's definitely starting to uh to have much more prominence there I think than uh than it once did. Any thoughts on that? No, it's great to see all that though. Indeed. Right. How are we doing for time? We got a little bit more time left, so let's crack on. Um, do you send emails? Any of you send emails out about your products or what have you I should do. No. Okay. This is the problem we described earlier, isn't it? Need to be sending emails out on a daily basis. Uh, this might this might interest you. I have an a feeling that this is an automatic thing, but let me see if I can find it somewhere. I don't know. Mail press. Maybe it's not. Maybe it's got nothing to do with automatic. Automatic has a mail poet. Yeah, mail. So, it won't be an automatic thing, will it? I don't know. When I saw that and you said it might be automatic. I said, why would they do that when they have mail poet? Because mail poet such a nice nice add-on plugin. I use it myself. I I interviewed years ago, few years ago, I interviewed the original developer of it. Maybe it's the way the site looks, the color palettes that they've gone for and the um the fonts and all of that kind of stuff makes me makes me sort of lean towards that. Anyway, it's definitely worth mentioning. Um it doesn't exist yet, this product, but it's called Mailer Press, and they're obviously trying to get people to fill out this form to join the weight list. Uh I'd encourage you to have a little look at this video. It's pretty short. It's like a minute. But basically, the idea is that you would build out your um you would build out your newsletter inside the block editor. And honestly, is it just me or is the block editor not the perfect formula for like making something like a newsletter? I think no. Well, with Mail Poet, when you build it out, you do have to use the block editor. the one time I used a block editor, but yeah, it's it works, but it to me it's not the best editor for it. So, I um I use a commercial rival called Newsletter Glue, which has just been bought actually. Um and they have a collection of blocks which essentially mean that you make one post and then you say to the content of that block, go in the newsletter, go in the post, or go in both. So, it just puts on his running shoes and starts running towards the newsletter or how does it work? What's that? It just builds up the newsletter with with the different blocks or Yeah. So, you write a post basically you just write a post as you normally would and then but then you say this block put in the newsletter but this one don't and this one do this image put this in. So, oh per block. Yeah. Oh, that's interesting. So you write the post just like you would write an ordinary post, but you have to use their blocks because they're configured to output HTML in two ways to the post, but also so that it's, you know, compliant with the the rubbish that an email client has to read, tables and all that. And then when you click publish, it will send it to your um, you know, Active Campaign, Mailchimp, whatever you want. And and it'll show differently. So, if you said make it the same, it'll be the same on your website as it is in the newsletter. If you just want to exclude this thing, it's it's really great. Honestly, I don't know why I don't know why we're all not using it. Um, and I really like it. It is also in the dashboard. Yeah, that's what I like Mail Poet because it can automatically feed from your post wherever you want. And also because it works well in Woo Commerce for checking out the emails for forgot, hey, you left this in your in your shopping cart. Come on back and finish it. So yeah, I don't think I don't think the newsletter glue solution does this. Anyway, this is a new this is a new one into the into the arena. It's called mailer press, and it does seem to be a similar sort of arrangement. You can see it's got um blocks here. I don't know. None of those look particularly like bespoke or anything. It does look like they're the sort of just the regular core blocks, but I don't really know what the setting are, but you can see if you're watching this, you build your newsletter inside the block editor. Um and then send it and obviously it will then send it to I don't know if they've got like an integration with something, but definitely worth checking out. Mailerpress uh.com certainly worth going to have a look. And Patricia brings another one. Uh, Fluent CRM with um with their SMTP plug-in. That's another option as well. Ah, yeah. And I presume you could do complicated kind of workflows with Fluent CRM like you know if this then that kind of add tags and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, newsletter glue just doesn't um doesn't do anything. Newsletter sounds like a newsletter glue imitation. Yeah, it does. The mail press. Is that what you're talking about, Cameron? It it that was what I thought. But with newsletter glue being very expensive for one of a better word, if you go and look at the pricing, you might be you might know what I'm talking about. Maybe this is going to try and sort of undercut that. Uh, Wild Works is Aki Hamo. Okay, so he's one of the Japanese contributors presumably who's adding to the bottom line there. Uh, I think I was doing a bit of Googling. Um, mail press is created by the folks behind SEO press. There you go. That's probably how I heard about them because I use SEO Press and um and probably I'm on their email list and maybe they sent me an email from from Mailer Press. So, there you go. Now we know. Um anyway, go check it out. Mailerpress.com. How much time have we got left? Not a lot. So, let's crack on very very quickly. If you're into um educational materials in the WordPress space, WP Shout have got a course. Um it's I think you know it's on sale now. It's called modern WordPress fasttrack. Learn to build high value block themes and plugins with AI um and automation in a 10week focused course. I'll link to it in the show notes but it is called modern WordPress fast track. I was going to say more about that but I won't. Uh which one shall I go to next? Okay, we'll we'll step away from WordPress for a moment and we'll go to this one first. Um, we nobody's ever satisfied with their email and uh, Cloudflare have decided to step in to the game and they're they're offering a service now called zero. What a cool domain that is. It is the the literally the numeral zero. And uh, they're saying that they're going to use what could possibly go wrong? They're going to use they're going to use AI to uh to neaten up your inbox experience. So potentially writing replies for you, figuring out which things are important and what have you. Honestly though, I am on team Cloudflare. So if somebody else had come across and said, "We're going to just AI the the wazoo out of your email," I would have been like, I don't know. But it's all to do with Cloudflare workers. I am definitely gonna give it a spin. My email my email inbox is a mess. No matter how much I try, I can't wrangle it into shape. So, I don't know if anybody does your inbox or does it also create your emails and send them without asking for? Well, so I would imagine it's not there yet, but all I did to get it going was I click the authorization. So, I use Google's products for email and I just clicked the one button, you know, login with what login with Gmail and I got this different interface for my Gmail account and it kind of tagged things differently and it made decisions. I haven't really explored it all that much, but it was definitely it was definitely doing things which Gmail doesn't do and it was doing without me asking it to do anything. Uh, so obviously, you know, now Cloudflare knows every single thing that I've ever received in an email. I don't know if that's good or not. Um, but it says it's an innovative email client that leverages AI to simplify simplify email management. It offers users a seamless and efficient way to handle their inbox. It's designed to work smarter, not harder, ensuring that you spend less time on the email and more on what matters most. Don't they all promise? What matters more than email? That's right. That's exactly right. But it's using Cloudflare workers to make it all happen. So anyway, you can go to literally the numeral0ero.e and uh sign up and you you too can be uh having AI in your there'll be nothing left for us to do soon. Can you imagine? We are just going to sit behind our computers and watch Tik Tok movies from word camp goers because No, we'll be we'll we'll spend the rest of our time on planet Earth cleaning up the slot that AI gives us. That's what's going to happen. Um yeah, I don't know. Anyway, go check it out. That's kind of interesting. What else have we got just before we finish? Uh let let's go with this one. More AI. Oh, more AI. Well, less AI, actually. Less AI, less AI, but we're talking about it more. So, this is the surprising conclusion. Who would have thought? Kinster have actually got the numbers. And it says, "AI has taken over customer service, but customers want humans back." You're kidding. I thought the AI chat bots were all really good at getting what I wanted really quickly. I mean, they're just so great. Um, this is a a study of one just over 1,000 US consumers. So, it's very America centric. And the the bottom line is basically, can we just can we stop with all that silliness and can we just have a human at the end of the line? Uh, 93.4% say that they prefer interacting with a human over AI. That is just such a damning statistic. 94% you know it's like okay uh 6% who say hey I like AI better who are those people no that was the 6% was an AI that managed to find the form and was trying to figure out uh well when when you're an edge case you know which seems to me every time I contact support I'm an edge case and the AI can't help me and I actually got to get to a human who can make a decision When you get to a chatbot, do you know chatbot? Get me a human. Yeah, that's all I do. When as soon as I figure out it's a chatbot, I spend I just try to get the chatbot to give me the option to get to a human straight away. And actually, I use uh an email service to send out my emails. And the first thing the bot prompt, and I think this is really smart of them, it says, "I'm an AI. if you don't want to use me, type live agent now. And so that's what I do. But I think that's quite nice because obviously if it was something that I could get from their docs or something and I just wanted to an AI to take on that task, that's fine. But the first option is basically we'll get the A out of your way and then they hand it straight over to a human who takes on the task. So anyway, I just thought that was kind of good. What else have we got? 71% encountered situations where AI struggled with complicated issues. No kidding, Sherlock. Um, 78.3% said humans resolve customer problem, customer service problems faster. 84 said humans are more accurate. 80% believed AI used primarily to save money and not improve service. 88 think companies should always offer a human to speak with as an option. 62% don't believe that AI could ever replace humans in customers. So the list goes on. You get the point. To be fair, what I do like about it, I it's a national uh bank holiday today in the Netherlands, so everything is basically closed and I had some things to take care of. I do like that I am able to have a conversation with AI and file a complaint without me just generally having a I don't know send an email or I mean the availability has gone up. I I do like that. I know I can send just a regular email that's the same thing but uh in that case my my preference was to do it through the AI chatbot. Yeah. Well, there you go. You're in the 6% and uh and no Yeah, look, you can shoot a whole Tik Tok about that. Somebody from LinkedIn, we don't know who you are, but hello. Uh saying, "Are the are the 94% willing to pay more for a real person to talk?" Well, I would argue are the companies who are going to lose 94% of their business willing to stay in business. Um you know, because if everybody just gets unbelievably frustrated. I was saying just before we um began this chat that um in the UK a lot of this is now under under review. A lot of the the companies who've implemented a lot of these AI solutions are now really questioning whether or not it will be something that they want to pursue. The cost of business obviously is cheaper deploying AI because you don't have to pay them pensions and they work 24 hours and all of that, but um it's whether or not on the other end, you know, people are are willing to put up with that kind of stuff. Cameron says he's too technical. Yeah, I'm I'm with I'm with Cameron on that one. By the time I contact support, I need a human to sort out my problem. Yeah. So, Andrew Palmer is the person uh coming in. Yeah. I I don't know. Yeah, I I know what you're saying, Andrew, but um is it in the best interests of humanity for 94% of us to be annoyed all the time when we're trying to get technical support or would it be better if the companies just sort of said, "Okay, you know what? That is the cost of business. Let's uh let's just swallow that and uh and have it." Do you know what what's incredible is that this platform got us through the full 90 minutes. I applaud you, platform. Um there's there's no way that worked. It's by uh it's a company called Streamlabs who you know they're fairly big in the streaming space, but I've never used their stuff before, but they got us through it. So that's it. That's all I've got time for. Thank you very much if you were joining us from a different part of the globe and you gave us a comment. Really appreciate it. That was a lot about accessibility that got you going, wasn't there? Uh we fully expect Wendy to have launched a very successful YouTube channel by this time next week. Anything else is a mark of failure I would say. Thank you. Uh but no, not really. So the only last thing we got to do the slightly humiliating handwaving that we do at the end of the episode so that I can turn it into some album art. So Dave, John, and Wendy, are you willing to give us There you go. Willing to give us your hands. Give us There we go. And I would say thank you to our commenters and also thank you to our three guests. That's to John overall, to Wendy with the surname that I can't say, and Dave Gray whose surname I can say. That's nice and straightforward. Yeah. And now I get to press this button which says endstream. I have no idea what it's going to do, whether it's going to kick you three out or whether the world will. Let's find out. Let's find out. See you next time on this. Oh. Oh. Um, I won't be here next week because I'm at the page builder summit. So, I'm having a week off. Well, I'm not. I'm working really hard on that other thing, but we won't be here for this. Enjoy. I'm looking forward to it so much. Me, too. I appreciate it. Right, I'm going to press the button and see what happens. Let's see. Signing., This Week in WordPress #333, WP Builds, 01jtnprq61gn5wsqt504x0ewa7.