Transitioning in Tech  ## Metadata - Author: [[Underrepresented In Tech]] - Full Title: Transitioning in Tech - Category: #articles - Document Note: --- tags: - #TransitionInTech - #WordPressCommunity - #AllySupport Author: Kira Source: [Underrepresented in Tech](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xkx1qqbFyIA) Reference: N/A date created: 2024-09-13 14:00 --- # Title: Transitioning in Tech and the Power of Community ## Table of Contents: - [📝 Summary](#-summary) - [📖 Main Content](#-main-content) - [🗒️ Notes](#️-notes) - [📖 References](#-references) - [🗣️ Paraphrase](#-paraphrase) - [📰 Newsletter](#-newsletter) - [✅ Action Items](#-action-items) - [🧪 Hypotheses](#-hypotheses) - [📊 Methodology](#-methodology) - [❓ Questions](#-questions) - [🔮 Future Research](#-future-research) - [💡 Implications](#-implications) - [🧠 Learning Styles Assessment](#-learning-styles-assessment) - [📊 Accessibility Assessment](#-accessibility-assessment) - [🌍 DEIB Assessment](#-deib-assessment) - [✅ Logical Validity](#-logical-validity) - [🔍 SEO Evaluation](#-seo-evaluation) - [🎯 Conclusion](#-conclusion) ## 📝 Summary: This conversation, led by Michelle and Sama with guest Kira, delves into the personal experience of transitioning in the tech world, particularly within the WordPress community. Kira shares her journey of transitioning while working as a software developer and educator, emphasizing the importance of ally support and inclusivity in professional spaces. The podcast highlights both the challenges and acceptance faced during the transition process, and provides insights into fostering diversity and empathy within tech communities. ## 📖 Main Content: ### 🗒️ Notes - Kira’s personal story of transitioning while working in the tech industry, particularly in the WordPress community. - Transitioning publicly while working as an educator in Ontario. - The reaction of colleagues and students: generally accepting and understanding. - Specific incident with an IT professional highlighting subtle biases post-transition. - Importance of community and ally support in Kira’s journey. - Allyship in personal spaces: friends accompanying Kira during shopping for clothing post-transition. - Professional allies: supportive colleagues who facilitated changes in workplace systems. - Broader reflections on the role of allies and safe spaces for trans individuals in tech. - Personal safety in certain geographical areas. - Systemic support through laws in Canada versus the U.S. - WordPress community’s effort towards diversity and inclusivity. - Pronoun stickers and inclusive event organization. - The need for empathetic leadership in organizing events. ## 📖 References: - [Underrepresented in Tech Podcast](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xkx1qqbFyIA) ## 🗣️ Paraphrase: 1. "Allies have been essential in my transition. For instance, my friends helped me navigate intimidating spaces, such as shopping in women's sections, which felt daunting alone." - Allies play a pivotal role in providing emotional and physical support, especially in situations where trans individuals might feel vulnerable or unsafe. 2. "In tech communities, especially among developers, the reaction to my transition has mostly been nonchalant—people are more focused on skills rather than personal matters." - Within tech circles, the focus tends to be on professional skills rather than personal identities, which can offer a level of acceptance for individuals undergoing transitions. ## 📰 Newsletter: ✨**Transitioning in Tech: A Story of Community and Allyship**✨ In our latest episode of "Underrepresented in Tech," we chat with Kira about her journey of transitioning while working in the WordPress community. Kira highlights the importance of ally support and shares insights into the acceptance and challenges faced in tech. Tune in to explore how the WordPress community fosters diversity and empathy. Don't miss this engaging episode! [Listen now](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xkx1qqbFyIA). ## ✅ Action Items: - **For WordPress Advocates**: Focus on inclusive event organization (e.g., pronoun stickers, dietary accommodations) to make all attendees feel welcome. - **For Allies**: Provide emotional and practical support to community members in vulnerable situations. - **For Leaders**: Prioritize empathy and openness in decision-making to support diversity. ## 🧪 Hypotheses: - **Hypothesis**: Transitioning individuals in the tech space experience higher levels of acceptance in communities with a focus on skill and merit, rather than personal identities. - **Hypothesis**: Ally support is crucial in mitigating emotional and practical challenges faced by trans individuals during and after transition. ### 📊 Methodology: - Conduct surveys within tech communities to gauge perceptions of diversity and inclusivity. - Analyze the impact of ally networks on the well-being and professional success of trans individuals. ### ❓ Questions: - How can tech communities better support trans individuals in regions where legal protections are minimal? - What role do microaggressions play in shaping the experiences of trans individuals in tech? ### 🔮 Future Research: - Investigating the long-term career impacts of transitioning in tech. - Studying the effects of geographic and cultural contexts on the experiences of trans individuals in tech. ### 💡 Implications: - Research in this area could lead to improved workplace policies and broader cultural understanding, making tech more inclusive for all marginalized groups. ### 🧠 Learning Styles Assessment: 1. **Visual Learners (Spatial)**: - **Present**: The podcast lacks visuals but could benefit from transcripts with images or infographics. - **Improve**: Include diagrams or flowcharts showing the stages of transition and community support systems. 2. **Aural Learners (Auditory-Musical)**: - **Present**: Podcast format supports auditory learners. - **Improve**: Consider adding background music or sound effects for emphasis. 3. **Verbal Learners (Linguistic)**: - **Present**: Rich dialogue and storytelling. - **Improve**: Provide a written companion or extended blog post. 4. **Physical Learners (Kinesthetic)**: - **Present**: Limited. - **Improve**: Suggest real-world applications such as organizing inclusive events or advocacy work. 5. **Logical Learners (Mathematical)**: - **Present**: No direct data. - **Improve**: Use statistics or case studies to appeal to logical learners. 6. **Social Learners (Interpersonal)**: - **Present**: Focus on community and ally support. - **Improve**: Encourage group discussions on inclusion in tech. 7. **Solitary Learners (Intrapersonal)**: - **Present**: Personal reflection from Kira’s story. - **Improve**: Include journaling prompts for individual reflection. 8. **Naturalistic Learners**: - **Present**: None. - **Improve**: Draw analogies between growth in nature and personal growth through transition. ### 📊 Accessibility Assessment: - **Screen Reader Compatibility**: Ensure the podcast transcript includes properly formatted alt-text for images. - **Keyboard Navigation**: No interactive elements; ensure future content is accessible via keyboard. - **Contrast and Readability**: Ensure text color contrast meets WCAG standards in transcripts. ### 🌍 DEIB (Diversity, Equity, Inclusion, and Belonging) Assessment: - **Cultural Relevance**: Highlight diverse voices from trans communities in various countries. - **Inclusive Language**: Ensure language is free from gendered terms unless contextually necessary. - **Neurodiversity Support**: Provide clear structure in podcast notes for easier consumption by neurodiverse individuals. - **Representation**: Continue featuring underrepresented groups in future episodes. ### ✅ Logical validity: - **Sound Deductive Reasoning**: Kira’s argument that ally support is crucial follows logically from her experiences. - **Causal Reasoning**: Kira links acceptance in the tech community to a focus on professional skills over personal identities. ### 🔍 SEO Evaluation: - **Keywords**: Keywords like "transitioning in tech" and "WordPress community" are present. - **Meta Description**: Could include a more concise description for better SEO optimization. - **Internal Links**: Suggest linking to relevant WordPress resources on diversity and inclusion. ## 🎯 Conclusion: Kira’s story highlights the power of community and allyship in navigating the challenges of transitioning within tech. The WordPress community continues to strive for inclusivity, but leaders must remain committed to empathetic and proactive approaches. In "Transitioning in Tech," Underrepresented In Tech explores the unique challenges faced by individuals from diverse backgrounds in the tech industry. The piece underscores the significance of self-acceptance and the value of learning from others as essential steps toward fostering a more inclusive and supportive environment. By advocating for understanding and acceptance, it calls for a cultural shift that empowers underrepresented voices in technology. (This blurb will not be that good until you heavily personalize the prompt.) 1. How does the process of transitioning in tech reflect broader societal attitudes towards diversity and inclusion? 2. What are the personal challenges faced by individuals transitioning in tech, and how do these experiences shape their professional journeys? 3. In what ways can the tech industry become more supportive and accepting of diverse identities and experiences? Short Summary for [Transitioning in Tech](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xkx1qqbFyIA) by [Merlin](https://merlin.foyer.work/) Title: Discussions on Transitioning in Tech with Featured Guest, Kira - Underrepresented In Tech Podcast [00:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xkx1qqbFyIA&t=2) Discussion on underrepresentation and new opportunities in WordPress and Tech [02:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xkx1qqbFyIA&t=143) Importance of community support during transition in tech [06:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xkx1qqbFyIA&t=418) Women facing stereotypes in tech industry [09:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xkx1qqbFyIA&t=556) Transitioning in 2015 led to diverse responses from people [14:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xkx1qqbFyIA&t=843) Transitioning in Tech and handling pronoun changes [16:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xkx1qqbFyIA&t=980) Misgendering intentionally is not just a mistake, it can be a safety issue. [20:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xkx1qqbFyIA&t=1236) Coming out as an ally can be challenging [22:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xkx1qqbFyIA&t=1359) Accepting yourself and transitioning into something else [26:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xkx1qqbFyIA&t=1596) Detransitioners face challenges beyond regret [28:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xkx1qqbFyIA&t=1718) Transitioning in the tech community and personal growth [33:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xkx1qqbFyIA&t=1994) Select team leaders with empathy and inclusivity in mind [35:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xkx1qqbFyIA&t=2118) Embrace accommodation without dismissing it [39:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xkx1qqbFyIA&t=2346) Inclusion benefits everyone [41:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xkx1qqbFyIA&t=2460) Transitioning in the tech industry poses unique challenges --------------------------------- Detailed Summary for [Transitioning in Tech](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xkx1qqbFyIA) by [Merlin](https://merlin.foyer.work/) Title: Discussions on Transitioning in Tech with Featured Guest, Kira - Underrepresented In Tech Podcast [00:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xkx1qqbFyIA&t=2) Discussion on underrepresentation and new opportunities in WordPress and Tech - Introducing the guest Kira and their friendship with the host dating back to WordCamp Ottawa. - Highlighting Kira's unique experience as the first friend who has transitioned in WordPress and Tech. [02:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xkx1qqbFyIA&t=143) Importance of community support during transition in tech - Community support helps individuals in transitioning and feeling accepted - Tech communities provide a supportive environment for individuals going through transition [06:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xkx1qqbFyIA&t=418) Women facing stereotypes in tech industry - People expecting women to not know technology or to be incapable - Personal experience of being underestimated and receiving condescending advice [09:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xkx1qqbFyIA&t=556) Transitioning in 2015 led to diverse responses from people - Changes in responses based on the name change were observed, intriguing yet dark - Most people were generally nonchalant and accepting of the transition [14:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xkx1qqbFyIA&t=843) Transitioning in Tech and handling pronoun changes - Men tend to ask uncomfortable questions while women focus on social aspects - Students had varied reactions, some had issues while others were supportive [16:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xkx1qqbFyIA&t=980) Misgendering intentionally is not just a mistake, it can be a safety issue. - Misgendering intentionally can be seen as an act of hostility and disrespect towards individuals. - It's not just a simple mistake, but rather a serious matter that can impact the safety and well-being of the person being misgendered. [20:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xkx1qqbFyIA&t=1236) Coming out as an ally can be challenging - Reflecting on personal experiences of feeling unsafe within family and friends group - Embracing self-awareness and self-discovery through the process [22:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xkx1qqbFyIA&t=1359) Accepting yourself and transitioning into something else - Accepting any part of yourself, such as being a D and D player, even if others think it's stupid - The importance of allies in the transitioning process, friends who accept and support you [26:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xkx1qqbFyIA&t=1596) Detransitioners face challenges beyond regret - 1. Detransition statistics show a small 1-3% regret rate, better than some cancer treatments. - 2. Some detransitioners faced community hate, not driven by personal regret, but societal pressure. [28:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xkx1qqbFyIA&t=1718) Transitioning in the tech community and personal growth - Entering the tech community as a transgender person from a different culture was challenging - Facing difficulty in finding someone who is similar and feeling a sense of belonging [33:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xkx1qqbFyIA&t=1994) Select team leaders with empathy and inclusivity in mind - Be mindful of the impact of leaders' actions on the community - Address and challenge problematic behavior for a more inclusive environment [35:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xkx1qqbFyIA&t=2118) Embrace accommodation without dismissing it - Respect individual needs like those with disabilities or allergies - Avoid saying no upfront, instead focus on finding solutions [39:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xkx1qqbFyIA&t=2346) Inclusion benefits everyone - Including all people in legal structures benefits everyone, not just the specific group being included. - Inclusion allows individuals to live their authentic selves, but some places may not be safe or accessible for everyone. [41:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xkx1qqbFyIA&t=2460) Transitioning in the tech industry poses unique challenges - Visibility and safety concerns impact the experience of transitioning professionals - Having a supportive community can make the journey easier and more fulfilling - Document Tags: [[trans]] [[wordpress]] - Summary: The text discusses the journey of transitioning in the tech industry, highlighting the challenges and acceptance faced by underrepresented individuals. It emphasizes the importance of self-acceptance and being open to learning from others. Overall, it advocates for a more inclusive and understanding environment in tech. - URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xkx1qqbFyIA welcome to the underrepresented in Tech podcast where we talk about issues in underrepresentation and have difficult conversations underrepresented in Tech is a free database with a goal of helping people find new opportunities in WordPress and Tech hello sa hello Michelle how are you I'm good how are you I'm good it's really hot in the Netherlands like I feel I'm being baked or kind of introdu ction course to hell or whatever but because in the houses there's no AC there's nothing you just you and your block so but other than that everything is fine I keep forgetting that it's summer because I work from home I live at home I don't go out much and then I'll go and get in the car and I'll be like Good Golly it's hot out here but luckily I have central air in my home so I'm happy but as we teased out last week in last week's episode um we always say you know it's possible that our guest would suddenly not be available but but she is available and so our guest today is Kira how Kira welcome to underrepresented in Tech hi it's good to have you here and Kira I met you I I know it was word Camp Ottawa well I believe it was word Camp Ottawa and I want to say it was like several years before the pandemic maybe 2016 2017 it's been quite a while that we've been friends and uh I am just happy to be part of your friendship crew and so when I asked you if you would be able and willing to come talk about your story um you said yes and I was just like please just punch as they say I don't know I've been using a lot of my grandmother's phrases lately like please dis punch um completely unrelated the other one that she used to say specifically about John Wayne was he could park his boots under my bed any time which I was like Grand but anyway that's another story for day but Kira you are I will say the first person I that I've known as a friend who has transitioned and so for you to come today and kind of be the person that can talk about this openly um in WordPress and in Tech I'm just you know I'm really grateful that you're willing to come and be with us today so thank you well I I I do this I sort of many years AG pre as I was transitioning I was sort of like I really need to stay in the community because I know and it goes with your your I'm the first one I'm probably not the first one you just that I knew of is what I meant yeah yeah and uh and it's it's funny because I said I see I see a lot of folks who transition and then they then they just sort of blend in with the uh with the with the with you know everybody and they disappear yeah so I T to I tend to like kind of just being here like being in places and you know people know and it's uh it is it is what it is I hate this kind of it's kind of I know that phrase it is but what I love about you and what I see when we're in friend groups together is it's a non-issue right so that's not to say that you haven't experienced Prejudice and experienced um other negative things in the Greater Community I'm not speaking for you I'm just making generalizations about the community and and as a whole and I don't mean our community I mean the global Community um but I want to hear it from you I don't want to put words in your mouth so tell us like when when did you do this and you did it publicly correct you were teaching I'm trying to remember you tell the story I was I was totally teaching it's it's funny because it's um the technology I always I always liked it like especially in in software development like you know as software developers we're all a bunch of uh uh nerds and sort of like we're a little little uh different from the rest of so you tend to get a lot of people who are who are just just like whatever whatever like whatever you know you you want to you you're you're uh you you want to play D and D you want to do whatever you're transitioning oh okay whatever sure um and uh and it it it has been by and large for me it's been like the communities I run in is has been very much like that it's been uh it's it's uh uh so and and it was you know I was teaching at a college in in uh in Canada in Ontario here um and was um and it was uh it was sort of it was a year and a half coming um so I was teaching for quite a while I was presenting as as as a as a guy for for a period of time and uh and and we got to a point where I was ready well I was ready I was ready quite a bit before that but it was like a um it was and you know I said it I said it to my my boss or my uh coordinator at the time I was like we're I'm I'm transitioning I'm com back as as Kira in the new year and uh yeah it was over it was over a new year so I get I get the nice uh like New Year change over I can count from a set set number too you you you the New Year's resolution that very few of us have the ability I I I did a new New Year's resolution and I stuck with it that's right um but they were like because it was I mean in in Canada there's there's a bunch of laws around uh around um uh trans and and um well around a whole lot of things been around for quite a while and you know that they and then the schools in themselves tend to be much more accepting to to uh like to to folks who are who are different um and you know they're they're the learning environment it's it's it tends um but so they yeah they basically you know they took the the message that I sent and they were like okay well let's let's do this thing um we're going to change the name in our system we're going to do this and that and the only thing we had was uh there was a bit of a a thing where they couldn't change my name in like a payroll system until I changed it uh officially like in a like I actually uh put in all the which took me like six months which was nuts yeah um but uh it um yeah that was it was you know a lot of it was fairly fairly uh like I mean it's from a professional life and from a a community it was it was it wasn't that big a deal um I can tell you there there's aspects like there's weird stories and things that it's like I go so especially around uh around teaching around I I tell the story periodically because it's the it's the most oververt uh thing was this um because I say um we're it's it's weird because it's like people people have always said you know women get treated differently in in in Tech right and in anything but tech tech especially it's like um we're oh we should we're not expected to know uh um things or like technology and the so forth and um and and it's it's it and I see that I see that a lot but it's like it's always those like was that was that was that like somebody be is that somebody's stereotype or was that was that just their they're just they just don't know like they just they're just you know that it's they're just you know for lack of a better term stupid um uh and uh so I have when I was at when I was at teaching I had we had a a spot where our technology went went offline and we sent this email to this uh to the te the IT guy and we're like this me and we and another instructor were teaching together but I I sent this email to him and it was after my transition and we had interactions prior to transition prior to me changing my name on my email and all that and so I sent this email to this guy and uh basically saying hey we're having a problem with your your the software that you you manage and he came back and was like oh yeah it's not a big deal just get your students to to use FTP if you'd like I'll come down and and show them how and and I mean now it does like when I say it out loud it doesn't sound as as sort of uh but it's like it's like I know how to teach my students FTP that is not the point they're also marketing students they don't they don't know know like they they can barely operate uh operate a a WordPress let alone FTP um and uh but it's uh it was just this this and I went back through the emails because I had the records of all my previous emails and they the tone his responses to everything were way different than than like what when my name changed his responses to me changed and it was really kind of fascinating in a kind of terribly terribly dark way but um and uh yeah so that like that's the that's the top my story of the top of like what the heck uh but uh um but by and large people are generally pretty like they're just like shoulder shrug like okay sure how long ago was this that you transitioned I don't know what year it was uh so that would have been um well 2016 January 1st 2016 is when I went like full full uh full Kira left as one person came back as yourself pretty much I mean I was I was transitioning in 2015 towards the course of that and it was like it was just like I was getting all the all the things lined up to uh um and you know trying to pick a name which is really hard it's hard like all the people who've had kids and and like uh are trying to pick the name for their kids it's like how do you how do you even choose a name I wonder about CH Cara yeah yeah uh Kira just it came down to just I liked I liked it it sounded good my previous my previous name was sort of um it wasn't one of like the really popular names it was um uh it was sort of um I it was from a statistical point of view I think Kira lands in the same sort of stat statistics I it's got a different I was trying to find one with the same first letter but um it I didn't I couldn't find anything I liked I think I started liking the ones with the with the a at the end like the kir like the um I had a few I had a few options that were that had that that in the end and I was like it's probably why like I like I just I guess it's just it flows well with your last name too I really do yeah well there's there's that there are a few that i' like you know you you you look at and like you don't want that that uh that that that that name name like that you whereas those those weirds are like Steven Stevenson like those those uh it's like who names their kid that my my ex-husband sorry sory out there to all the Steph Stevenson I didn't mean to knock your name but it is I once said to my ex-husband about somebody that we knew that had one of those names that was like stepen Stevenson and I said it would be like if your parents named your sister Amy because our last name was Ames he's like I do have a sister Amy and he did I was like never mind sure did I never thought about the fact that you probably most of us have middle names did you pick have to pick two names did you pick a middle name as well well so I my middle names um are they're they're a my parents name was so the my family has this like JP in in a lot of the names throughout uh through like it's sort of a kind of a generational thing so I have Janice Patricia in my middle name so I have this JP that um and Janice is my mom's name so ni yeah and so how was your family throughout this part of your journey uh so so they they well so they they thought there was a change um like my mom my mom's my mom's been pretty has been very supportive along the way um I mean she's she's had I can tell she's had a bit of her like she's has a hard time kind of remembering the pronouns and the the change the name changes and stuff but she she she did that pretty like she she fixed that really quickly really um the uh like you know my extended family has uh the cousins and things they all they were just all like whatever sure that's nice my uh um so yeah my my dad's been a little bit of a harder harder cell or harder uh thing on this one um so it is yeah that's sort of an ongoing thing but uh do you find that by and large women are more accepting of this kind of thing than men or okay I will generally yeah I actually find myself a lot more comfortable when I tell people if like a female identifying person would uh it tends to be uh more like just like more whatever right yeah interesting and you know everybody's always so curious about it too like it's it's it's and I don't mind I don't mind telling people like to you know talking about it and stuff and people are you know h i find I find I find that the guys that I've told have have a very like like you know they they ask they tend to ask the the those question question yeah the ones that you don't really want to answer and then there the women will be a much more uh much more into looking like like the the social questions the things that are much more um subtle maybe or uh you know interesting potentially yeah that that's understandable I like that actually so excuse me how did your students were your students like kind of rolled with it students student had no students not no issue I was uh I was co-teaching with one of uh with with another instructor and uh and a couple of people who had issues with uh changing pronouns like I had um I we had U students who were coming who are from all over the world right and I know we had uh one direct student who was a a bit of a bit weird about it but they were never directly weird to me about it so it was like um so I don't know how that's the other of course the other thing is that you don't really know uh if people are you know if people don't use pronouns when you're talking to them on one right so it's like unless they're telling a story or something but it's a so you don't often can't tell if if they're actually being you know if they're if they're obnoxious until you know you're standing with a third person and they they uh but uh by and large the students were just like again they're just like whatever sure I've seen posts that say things like if you mis pronoun misgender people Mis pronoun people that it's an act of violence I've heard people say things like really extremist and and I'm wondering what your take on that is now obviously people make mistakes right so like I know people in my life who've gone from gendered pronouns to non-binary pronouns and I try so hard but because I've known them for so long as one way I'll say the wrong pronoun and correct myself right so obviously I'm trying kind of thing and I make mistakes I'm human but there are people who intentionally Mis gender and Mis pronoun people yeah what are your thoughts on that my thoughts are that that if you're if you're actively being being a jerk I wanted to use a slightly slightly say we can say yes if you're if you're actively like like I am I do not accept this person I'm going to I'm going to to basically do the thing that they have asked me not to do that's just an move um that is and that is a that is that is that like a violent violence is is a strong word but it is it is like I'm not sure there's a there's a better you know it's combative at least right yeah um and it is it is like it's like look like I I have um I I said I I have uh I have people who like my dad still screws up my pronouns and it drives me crazy because it's it's like and there's there's moments like we were down in Florida at one point and he he were standing there at a restaurant and he he used he he miss misgendered me and this is Florida like I could get beaten up for for like for him mispronouncing like putting the wrong pronoun using the wrongs like it is not it is like you you've got to understand like that's a that that's not only just a like a it's it's not just it's a safety issue it is a safety issue for me and it is uh and and so it's it's it's sort of tough uh and I I do like there's there's there is like times when it is violent like to for somebody to be like uh to to say that and U and then there's other times where it's just a it's just a goof like it's just a oh damn it I should have said I missed it again yeah I the the they pronouns um are are tough for me too like I I have friends who have who have they are they them and d and they um uh like I mean I've had we saw that too I just got the table and I was like the camera wet walk yeah um the uh yeah and and it was it was a change to to try and like to to mentally be like be like no no no we this is this is the this is the pronoun I should be using so it's like mistakes are mistakes I mean it it's all it's it's really more in intention than than anything else and uh um so and and to some extent intention in includes being like not uh not actually trying you know what I mean like it's like you can be you can you can make a mistake but if you're if you if if it's if it's like you know seven years later and you're still say making the same mistake you clearly haven't put a lot of effort into into unmaking the mistake right yeah that makes sense for sure so so um I'm talking all over S I promise I'm going to let you ask question no but you're asking all of the question I want to ask I love you so just go ahead so last fall in October my daughter took me to a a visiting speaker series at UB and the per and she didn't tell me until we got there who I was going to be hearing and it turned out it was Amy Schneider who was one of the winningest people on Jeopardy and is Al a trans woman and she's very open about her experience also like like a ton of experience not just transitioning but also going through um having been an addict and all of these I mean her book is amazing her story was amazing and she made the statement that like I really took to heart was she said I hope that everybody has the opportunity at some point in their life to come out as something because the growth through that was amazing to her and so Ally and I last year I said I called her like it was 9:30 at night I'm calling her on the phone on the way back from Buffalo I go I have this idea that it's absolutely lesser than people who transition or people who come out in the lgbtq community but for some of us it's not even safe to come out as an ally and for me that whole process of coming out as an ally felt dangerous to some with within some of my own family and friends group and so like just that little kernel of understanding of what that was like for me like exacerbate that for somebody who is the person who is in the lgbtq community Etc but what do you think of that phrase that what she had to say about she hopes everybody has that opportunity absolutely I think I think we should all we should all be aware of our our own the things the things Society sort of says that we're supposed to be and then and then come out as like no that's not me I know this is this is not me you know forget you all and it's it's U uh and it it is it is absolutely it's been absolutely um amazing the the um for for me going like as I I did all so much research um of like and it and it you know I was it was like the psychology of of of people and like I I was learning like I it wasn't even just like my own self it was like okay I'm identifying pieces of myself that are I can see in other people and I I can like it's actually became the world the world got shiny and and you know sparkly for a bit like where it was like uh like you know it was really interesting to watch the the what what other people like how they presented themselves and how the how how there's so many different um uh like I'm watching you know looking outward at at the at the world but it's it is um it's it's just like you you learn so much about yourself in this process and it is and if you can't like if you can't sort of accept yourself to that you're not what everybody says you are like if you can if you can accept a any part of yourself that is like you know I like I like to be a giant nerd if you like to play D and D but you know you all you all your friends think that's stupid like come out as a as a D and D player like um it's it's uh it's it's just one of the like and everybody should just spend spend their life learning growing and transitioning into something else like it's uh um and and you know accept except that you know you don't know everything and everybody uh and and the world tells you a lot of stuff that is just this is the way it is we're never you're not to uh you're not to deviate from that uh uh that that that and uh and and um you got to sort of like yeah if you can yes yes the bottom line is yes uh we had an opportunity also to ask her questions like via Twitter with a hashtag which was a very interesting thing and my my question actually got asked during the moderation and my question was and and I think I assume the answer but I think it's important for other people to hear the answer and I could be wrong of course but my question to her and I'm going to ask you as well is how important was the role of allies through that process through the transitioning process um it's it you it it is absolutely fundamental to have some have some friends who are just just like accept like are just are just allies they're just straight up uh like you know well I had I had friends who took me shopping because that that was that has always been a thing where it's been it to go into like I mean shopping in general has never been really my my thing but um there was I think it's you know as a from a subconscious level I was like to go into the women's section um presenting as as as a guy previously um was like it was terrifying to me because of the Judgment that I thought like people are going to be like whispering and so and so forth and to have have somebody at my side do we could go in and go go buy dresses and uh we went to when I when I um uh uh when I uh just the as a New Year's there was a New Year's Event and we went and bought dresses for for this New Year's Event uh at at a store um obviously a store and uh yeah it was just like I don't know that I could have done that without without my friend uh there and um uh to be like to just as a as a like you know somebody's somebody's there with me and that I'm not you know having to fight this this this this feeling my in in my internal um um uh fears um on my own right and it's there's always Powers power numbers so you know you get together with you know the friends but there's a whole lot of statistics around that that say that say you know supportive anything supportive is is good uh is good for people's mental health and it's uh and you know it's good for uh so I mean absolutely it's huge huge to have that from a allies point of view being able to say being able to like in in school to be able to to like what the um when I was teaching to have my my coordinator who was just who would just who was just like I sent him an email and he just went like took care of it like he just took care of all the stuff that needed to get taken care of to make that happen so it was like yeah if you you know if you don't have people who are just like I don't um I don't know how that how that would work for me like I don't know where I'd be without you know all of the people who have uh sort of been been along the way and one of the the really fascinating things I read a while back and this was this is probably um there was a there's a been a whole bunch of surveys about detransition it's very Pol it's very political where people are like um you know they use it as an excuse not to not to give us you know access to you know whatever but it's um uh the d transitioners uh there's there's they talk about it the actual statistics come about I think 3% was the the most recent studies that I heard somewhere between 1 and 3% um this is this is better than a lot of Cancer Treatments um that's a very small number yeah so if you talk about like 97% of people uh you know don't regret don't have uh don't be transition um and uh but the the interesting thing is that there was there was some statistics on on those those 3% of people and it's like a lot of them detransitioned not because they regretted it they they just got so much hate from their Community from the people around them that they just it was untenable to keep to keep uh going that way um like there's a there's a percentage of so there's percentage of the 3% who is just they're still transs they just they've just been beaten down unfortunately to uh and they just didn't have the people around them that could that would uh would potentially stand up for them right so yeah so I'll keep asking questions but if you have some I want you to jump in I don't want to talk over you yeah I'm I'm gonna jump in I have like very question related to the work uh I know you have been read of course about you that you really contribute signif sign sign signicant yeah to the WordPress Community by speaking and organizing at word camps as well as developing um custom Solutions and plugins how was your involvement in those um diverse group or diverse community help or influence your career and personal growth and was it easy as a transgender women for you to do it because um I know uh how can I say it it it is really difficult sometimes you're entering the the community itself from my own experience WordPress Community I entered and it was so difficult since I'm coming uh from different culture and I I came here living in Europe trying to to uh be part of the community finding someone because I don't know we human we always find someone who looks like us in some place and then we feel more welcome like we sensive belonging um how how that involvement in word Chris Community or in the ti Community helped you with your personal growth and was it transgender uh at the same time you're trying to to be in the community I know it was very difficult uh so yeah how how is that it really helped you in your personal growth um well so i' I've always been a giant giant geek so giant nerd I can attest to that even as much as I tried to hide it when I was younger it was uh it was it was there so I've been in computers forever I don't don't know that I'd ever do anything different um and that was when I was in my 20s one of the one of the things that I um I did a I did a whole bunch of research on on trans and uh and this was this was you know 20 years ago so if you think about you know early 2000s um I was I was uh I did all this research about this and it was like there was there was uh as far as like Tech in the Tech Community it was like it was like you would never get per Mission from a doctor because you were a computer person and computer computers were male like that was the the guy it was it was a GU thing um and and it was like I think I may have chosen chosen to uh take as long as I did to transition because it was like I'm not going to I'm not gonna I'm not going to stop doing the thing that I love to because uh because you know like I have the choice of like you you know that that because I'm I'm going to get kicked out of it like that that was and it so there's really like it was it's tough um so I mean as far as uh being in the community it is um I mean the personal growth is uh I I'm not sure how how to define that in my in my own head as far as what what I what I like because it is it is basic basically like the the just having that Community is is growth it's it's uh it's a it's it you know it it is gives me something to do yeah awesome what what are you expecting I know that WordPress Comm is becoming more diverse more inclusive like we talked uh Michelle and I couple of episodes even like about changing for to to more hopefully for the future to be more accepting for all of the attendees uh to even think about the food that everyone is feeling welcome that hey this is my dietary requirement whatever religious religiously or for health things what do you think WordPress Community because that's I know the best that what they should do or hopefully they could do to make WordPress more diverse for transgender uh uh what what what advices you can give them or from your experience or difficulties or obstacles that you have in the past or maybe you still facing it or and you think that WordPress Community should uh improve uh the community and WordPress it just been great like I mean they have I haven't had any real anything any issues that the fact that they're putting out like pronoun uh stickers and stuff on on things is is is great it's like a uh um having that's it's it's um it's a it's it's been um I I'm not sure other than just sort of like just be keep being accepting and keep uh keep you know keep doing that I like I can't speak for uh you know other other communities other um other folks but it's it is um I mean just keep keep keep keeping in mind the things that uh that were um you know that and keep being open and U I had uh this the story like you you pick your you pick your organizers you pick your your team leaders uh in in a way that is not uh is not obnoxious uh because like what so we had Toronto pre pre- pandemic Toronto the Toronto word Camp um we got this we got this leader and um he did a he put a piece of like a story about these two guys making a bad joke at a python conference I think it was python um making a very essentially a sexist uh joke and uh and this article that was basically like well boys will be boys um and he wanted uh like this that was what I thought the article basically came out look like looking at was like oh well it it's not such a big deal why are you making it such a big deal it's like well it's it is a big deal um and it and it's even a bigger deal when the organizer of this of a word Camp is putting this garbage in into uh in into in where everybody will see it like it's it's like um and and so he it was it's one of those things that it's just you just keep picking you pick your PE pick the people who will Who will keep keep the who have that empathy that that idea that you know everybody deserves a spot and you know there are things that you know if especially around like the if you don't see it it doesn't mean it's not there kind of thing like they they have to accept that that if you know if if you're if you're being told that this is not this is problematic that you don't argue with that from argue with the people who say it's problematic because they know right so you wouldn't tell a person in a wheelchair that they don't really need curb cuts and that they don't really need an elevator you wouldn't tell somebody who has um a nut allergy that they should go ahead and eat those walnut cookies right so why are you telling other people how they should be accommodated in the in the curb cut thing it's like it's it's not even like oh you don't need it it's like oh it's G to be too expensive to do that it's G to be too hard it's too much work to make that happen it's like how about how about you just you know figure out how to do it and and you know it's like rather than upfront that no upfront is always those those those people who do that no upfront where you're you you you say like we need this or and this goes for like everything this is not just just uh uh just within within um uh within the the various uh communities and things it's like if you know you have somebody come up to you with a problem and say like I would really like to change XY Z whether it's a software problem or whether it's a a um a diversity problem whatever I want to change this to to be like oh it's going to be too hard to do that oh no we can't do that um to put that no right out front is is like uh that is that is such a bad move and I see it all the time with people and all kinds of different scenarios and it it's like well don't say no figure figure out how it could be done and then you can figure out like okay maybe it's going to cost a lot and maybe we can figure out a way to make it cost less or maybe we can figure out a way to to uh to raise Capital yeah um and it's yeah so it's like it's like there there's always a way to do everything it's just you just have to be open to it and it's and it comes like I think it comes down to that in a lot of cases in in stuff like this is that you you pick your leaders who are willing to to uh to accept that you know they don't know everything that and also that they will go and figure stuff out right I think it's good to have leaders that will advocate for their community members and that's I think for me that's the bottom line right so you know I use a Mobility device if somebody says to me oh I'm sorry our word Camp's not going to be um accessible for you like that's just not acceptable right so absolutely I mean and that's a very blatant obvious thing because there's laws that protect people with to have access who don't walk right so that's that um and I think some countries are doing better at enacting laws to protect people in the lgbtq community specifically trans individuals um but we're not there yet and so having leaders in places other than government who will advocate for me and you and and others I think is just super important so I'm really glad you raised that point yeah and it and it is like in in Canada I'm sort of blessed to be in Canada with the and we have all the we have a whole lot of legal protections and um and we tend to be and but it's just and and I unfortunately I look at the states and I see the I see the sort of Patchwork and the things that are are and aren't and you can't and it's it's it's like I'm blessed that Canada has then but we have a we have a potential leader in coming a potential leader of one of our our parties that is wants to make a whole bunch of changes to a whole like he's right way shall I say so now I hope it's to make it to the better to make it to the yeah well it's like and and I don't know how like people don't see the betterment of like some of like some of the stuff like you if we want to go back to the curb cut thing is like right well now now all the people with strollers have have a way to get up on the curb and it's not just it and and maybe that wasn't discussed right at the be like at the beginning of that um uh when when that was put forward but it was a benefit to everybody it's like it's the same accessibility uh arguments we have with with web and with everything is where you know if you do it right everybody benefits so it's like if if you include everybody if you include trans people in the in your in your legal structure then then yeah we uh you know there's there's a and then you get you know other people who are on on the edges of that that can who can be themselves too like it's uh so yeah one thing I get told a lot and and I just smile and say thank you because I don't ever want to tell somebody that that's the wrong thing to say so to speak but people will tell me all the time when they see me like traveling and um in my scooter and all that like oh you're so brave or you're so inspirational and that kind of thing but there's really truly no bravery in just not being able to walk right so like like that's not a brave thing um I get that too I get people who are like oh you're so brave to for you're doing this is like well I don't know how else I could have done this exactly but at the same time there is a level of bravery to putting yourself in positions like being in Florida so like to you have to live your authentic self but there are still places that are not necessarily safe for you just like there are places that I can't I I there there's a Gorge near us that has it's beautiful waterfalls I did it as a kid it is all steps it is all there's no way that anybody that uses a Mobility device could ever go there it is not safe for me cannot drive my scooter down flights upstairs right kind of thing and so I realized that it's different for you because you can't just look and see that something is not a safe space yeah yeah you don't know until you're actually uh I have I have the the I'm uh I have the benefit that I blend like I can I can uh I can blend in nobody really know knows that uh that I'm unless you're getting misgendered publicly those kinds of yeah well yeah except for that so you know I can I do have a lot more um you sure do possibility from that respect to uh um to to go and be where where I want to be right yeah absolutely any last questions or thoughts Sama not at all not at Old anything we didn't ask you that you wanted to say Cara no I think uh I mean I just I just talk and you know we like that I like that that's why we're friends I'm a talker too anyway I want to thank you so much for spending some time with us today and being willing to tell your story I know that that for some people that's not an easy thing to do and so I'm glad and grateful that for you I don't want to say it's easy I'm not putting words in your mouth but that you're able and willing to um to be so open about it so I really do appreciate you and your friendship thank you I I yeah I appreciate that that's um it's it's it's easier to be open when you have a whole bunch of people around you who just like are you know awesome people yep absolutely and shout out to your Friendship Circle in the WordPress Community up in Canada because they're pretty awesome people I like them too I I should I should put an asteris being like I am I am I represent one person and there there are a grand number of trans people and they all they all look different and uh they are different and they present differently and it's uh you you know you've seen one you've seen one but uh exactly exactly right and we said that before we started recording is you are telling your story not every transperson story and we um obviously understand that and we want people who are listening and watching this to understand that as well Kira story is Kira story and it might not be you know Joe's story or Samantha's story or somebody else's story um but every one story that you hear contributes to a better understanding of our world and the people within it so thank you yeah thank you and hopefully to see you one day real life version in W Camp AB exactly if you you should you should have come to Work Camp Kennedy you could have gone home with a fancy little H time I have one on my keychain so all right thank you I don't know what we're g last two weeks I've said hey this is our topic next week we haven't talked about that yet so we don't know what our topic is next week we're always open ideas so if you are listening or watching and you have ideas that you'd like us to discuss we would love to hear about those so thank you again Kira thank you Sama for being my co-host with the most as they say thank you for having me it's our pleasure we'll see everybody else in the next episode of under represented in Tech bye thanks everyone bye bye if you're interested in using our database joining us as a guest for an episode or just want to say hi go to underrepresented in Tech see you next week [Music], Transitioning in Tech, Underrepresented In Tech, 01j4ex008y2070he6r8ssk7f67.