YouTube Video bE5ar3qd6MA  ## Metadata - Author: [[YouTube]] - Full Title: YouTube Video bE5ar3qd6MA - Category: #articles - Document Tags: [[collaborative]] [[development]] [[h1]] [[testing]] [[tools]] - Summary: YouTube Video bE5ar3qd6MA - URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bE5ar3qd6MA It's time for This week in WordPress, episode number 355 entitled I Forgot to Wave. It was recorded on Monday the 17th of November 2025. My name is Nathan Wrigley and today I am joined by Michelle Fchett and by Reese Wyn. It's a WordPress podcast, but we do spend quite a lot of time talking about the Kaggi search engine. Ree brings a few interesting bits and pieces that they are putting together. And we spend probably a good I don't know third of the episode talking about that. It's really interesting. And then we talk about Michelle and her hunt for work. You can find out all about that in the episode. And then we get on to the WordPressy bits and pieces. 6.9 is just around the corner. There is a whole ton of content related to all that is dropping in 6.9. So we touch on collaborative editing. So that's phase three. We talk about AI. We talk about WordPress VIP and their efforts to get collaborative editing working. We also spend a little bit of time talking about sponsorship and the global partnership program and then quite a bit on TX and how TX might shake up the WordPress plug-in ecosystem or block ecosystem in the near future. Is it a good idea or as many in the audience think, do they think it's a bit of a security nightmare? There's a whole load more and it's all coming up next on this week in WordPress. This episode of the WP Builds podcast is brought to you by GoDaddy Pro, the home of managed WordPress hosting that includes free domain, SSL, and 247 support. Bundle that with the hub by GoDaddy Pro to unlock more free benefits to manage multiple sites in one place, invoice clients, and get 30% off new purchases. Find out more at go.me/wpuilds. me/wpbuilds. Hello, hello, hello, hello, good morning, good afternoon, good evening, wherever you are in the world. It's episode number 355 of This Week in WordPress. It's quite a lot. And uh actually quite a milestone. I hadn't even realized it until somebody tweeted me. We on the podcast side of things, we passed episode number 444, which is kind of not really a thing, but it's kind of, you know, all the fours. It's quite nice. Um, so between this and that, that's quite a lot actually. So there you go. That's my fact for the week. Uh, episode number 355. As you can see, >> the question >> Oh, cool. >> Is episode 404 able to be found. >> No, that's never possible. That's can't be can't be. I actually did try that once. I think it was with the Yeah, I think I did. Oh, no. I know what it was. By pure coincidence, episode 404 was related to kind of like search and things like that. And so it was Yeah, it was pretty cool. >> Perfect. >> Yeah, it was pretty perfect. And it wasn't by design. Sometimes serendipity is cool. So you can see that there's two guests today. Um firstly, we were supposed to be joined by Tim Nash. I think some of the tweets that I sent out were to say that Tim Nash would be joining us. Um unfortunately this morning he messaged me to say that he wasn't able to make it. So, I hope that all is well, Tim, with you and yours. But, uh, hopefully we'll have Tim back. However, um, two extra guests is a nice number. I think sometimes that makes the conversation work in different ways. But we can see down here we have, uh, Michelle Fchett. Hello. How you doing? >> Hello. I'm good, thank you. >> Nice to have you with us once more. So, I'm going to read Michelle's little bio out here. So, Mich Oh, it's been strip slips. Easy for me to say. Has it been stripped down? Did I strip that down accidentally or is okay well I'll read what we got. Um Michelle Fchett is the executive director of Post Status in addition to the work over there. Michelle is the podcast barista at WP coffee talk co-founder of underrepresented in tech creator of WP speakers WP career pages uh sponsor me WP which she co-founded along with speed network online. She is also an author influencer frequent organizer and speaker of word WordPress and tech events. She lives outside of Rochester, New York, where she is an avid nature photographer. And if you want to learn more, the one handy URL is meet Michelle.online. No, it's the fact that it's in a Google doc and the font is smaller. It just looks it looks >> less. >> Yeah, it definitely looks less, but uh but it's not. So, there we go. There's Michelle. Thank you for joining us. And um >> today's episode should be 404. Tim not found. >> Oh, Tim is Oh. Oh, okay. So, uh, yeah, Taco's kind of jumping in there. He says, "I missed 404. Couldn't find it." Yeah, you see, it's a it's a joke. Only nerdy people uh will know. Speaking of nerdy people, look, there's Ree. How you doing, Ree? How's it going? >> I'm I'm good. I was just about to say I was trying to I was trying to think of all the HTTP uh sentences, and I was just like, if you're 418, does that make you a teen? I once knew what all of those were, but those days have long gone. I don't know what any of them are now, apart from 404. But um Reese has joined us. I think probably this is like the fourth or third time or second. >> Is it only is it? Oh, it feels like so much more. >> Yeah. >> But I know what it is. I know what it is because we met in person and spent spent a little bit of time not that long ago when we um when we were both in London. We spent quite a bit of time together in the pub, sat next to each other having breakfast. That'll be what it is. Anyway, Reys, I'll read the bio. Ree Wyn is a Welsh freelance WordPress developer living in a small village in the northwest of England. He co-organizes the Manchester WordPress user group, writes WordPress plugins, and is the occasional speaker. His work tends to focus on performance, SEO, and general back-end WordPress and Woo Commerce development for small and medium-sized businesses and charities. He's also passionate about decentralized web and yearns to return to the days where everybody maintained their own blog. Oh, me too. Um, especially if those blogs were WordPress sites. >> I've noticed. >> Oh, have you? >> Oh, yeah. Same. >> I've decided to write again. >> Well, anyway, I've finished your bio first. Hold on. Uh, you can find his WordPress services newsletter and plugin at Okay, I'm going to have to spell it. Um, dwin nhys. So, dwin.com, but um, I've read it into the record now. Um, and it rhymes with tween and ree. Okay. So, what is that? >> Tween and Dween Ree. >> Oh, okay. Oh, I feel bad now. >> It's all right. >> And rhymes with police. Got it. Uh, or find less focused ramblings and link to whatever social profiles are popular at Reese.Wales. That's a good one. Reese.Wales. That's a good one. >> When I got that. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Keep hold of that one. >> Yeah. Yeah. I managed to get the nathanwriggley.com one. And that's where I've started writing again. I don't know what happened. I woke up one morning about I don't know a few weeks ago and thought really why am I not using it because I absolutely love writing and I'm a bit of an insomniac at the minute and and I've got this period in the morning when I wake up and usually I just sit and consume buckets of coffee and um and so now I've just tapping random musings out on my keyboard and I'm actually really enjoying it. I don't suppose many people are rigging it. Are you is could it be after loop conf? Because I think I had a bit of a realization because I >> if you look at my post loop comp and after loop comp on on Restock Wales. >> Yeah. >> It's just >> night and day. Yeah. It's interesting as well because I've I've kind of come and Michelle maybe because you've got loads of different properties all over the place. I've kind of come to the realization that almost nobody uses WordPress commenting on commenting anymore. Like there's a few posts that I've written where one or one or maybe two people have written a comment, but the commentary largely happens, you know, over on the other places, doesn't it? On the blue sky and the the Twitter or X or whatever it may be. And um and that kind of really bo me up a little bit um when I get when I post something and then somebody replies and I'm not writing anything sort of controversial or weird, but I'm with you, Ree. I'm totally with you. It's nice to >> nice to have that that bit in my life back. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so the housekeeping rules are as follows. If you are joining us live, that's fabulous. Thank you so much. I know that lots of you are not. So, just fast forward 30 seconds. So, if you are joining us live and you want to comment, there's a variety of different options depending on where you're viewing it. Um, they will potentially show up in our platform. Lots of the platforms these days kind of, you know, they're gatekeeping this kind of stuff. So, for example, YouTube comments get through to us, but things like Facebook and Twitter, they do not. So, if you comment over there, we just don't see it. So, the best advice is to go to this URL. So, if you're watching it on some other platform, just maybe stop what you're doing and just go here, wpbuilds.comlive. Um, you'll be able to play it in much the same way as anywhere else. But over on the right is the YouTube comments embedded, so you can just start scribbling in there. But if you know you don't have a Google account, we got you covered as well. There's a little black box inside the the actual video player. So top right it says live chat. Uh click on that and then you don't need to be logged into anything whatsoever. You can make your comments and we'll definitely get those. So wpbuilds.comlive and thank you to the few of you that have sort of said hello and whatnot. It's really nice when that happens. Uh so Corny Robertson is saying good morning. Dave Gray who's on the show quite a little bit. Episode Oh yeah, that's that I don't know what I don't know what I'm going to do at that point. Episode 666 is is when it gets real. That's right. Maybe I'll just avoid that one. There are certain things apparently the Chinese don't do. There are certain things which like at a government level there are numbers which they don't do things with because they're just like >> eight is apparently the number eight. Yeah. I want Yeah. I don't know why but yeah, red is good luck. Eight is bad luck, I think. Do do not quote me on that. But yeah, because because eight is such a small one, even if you're gonna miss that out, there's so many things where you get to eight. 666 is a little bit less. >> I hope it coincides with Halloween. That would be like >> I reckon I reckon if you started now by episode 666, you'll be able to interview Brian. I mean Brian Dickinson from Iron Maiden. >> That's right. Okay. All right. We got it. We got it dialed in. Um, so, um, Taco says, "I can't wait for episode number 451 until it gets removed." Okay, he's being clever there, I'm guessing. Is that an error code 451? It's been removed. >> Keep it coming, Taco. That's too clever. Uh, Elliot just down the road from me and Brid. Hi. Um, how you doing, Elliot? Nice to have you with us. Uh, he says he's always so proud when my post gets comments. Can I just ask, how did you get that letter O on the word so? It's got some kind of like grav French accent on it. Uh I don't know how you manage that, but me too. It's the best feeling in the world, isn't it? It's like a little slice of birthday cake. >> When you when you get the email saying your post has received a new comment or a comment in moderation, it's just like, >> oh, somebody has just spent time and read what I've done. And >> well, until you go in and realize it's complete spam. Oh, then you've got you've got to delete it. Uh we'll get to a plugin in a minute. Well, towards the end which hopes to deal with that and what have you. >> It's option option E and then followed by the letter will give you the accent over it. >> Okay. All right. I you see look the the hive mind. It's brilliant. >> I spell the word resume all the time. So I know. >> Okay. Yes. Okay. So you have to add that on the end. Right. Right. Right. Taco says maybe that's because it's rare indeed. Oh, I see the 451 thing. James says good morning. Number 13 isn't a bad isn't a bad number in Chinese culture. Okay. So, that's kind of a weird one for us, isn't it? The unlucky 13 kind of thing. Yeah, that's pretty low as well, thinking about it. >> Um, and then we're joined by Janet. Janet, sorry for butchering your name, Janet. Never had you on before, I don't think. Hello, guys. Good day. Nice to have you with us. And then we got this weird thing. Okay. Okay. >> I think it's going to depend on whether you're on a Mac or a PC, probably. >> What's GR? >> It's a Mac key, >> but what is it? Which one does it >> Hang on. I need to have a look at the Mac. Yeah. What is I've never heard of. Does he mean control? >> I alt control. >> I have a Mac and I do alt E or option E. So >> we've totally got bogged down on the letter O. Uh I don't know what GR is, Dave. So if you can let us know. Um how did I get the O? I've got this plank in front of me with a lot of B. Plank is otherwise. >> I I think I without without wanting to put words >> without wanting to put words in Takar's mouth, I think he just mistyped it. I do too, Jul. Um, and then James. Okay, James, this is interesting. So, it gets truncated, so I'll just read the rest of it off. Uh, he says, "Number eight is considered a good number, not because of where it is in the numerical chart, but when pronounced in Cantonese and Mandarin, it sounds like the word wealth or money, which is a really And then he goes on to say, which is a happy >> coincidence." Oh, that's fascinating. >> I stand corrected. >> Yeah. Yeah, that's okay. I mean, obviously I didn't know either. Um, and then friendly web do gray said it's the alt on the right side of the space bar. >> Okay, that's the GR key, is it? Mine just looks the same as the alt on the other side of the keyboard. So, that's weird that it's got his whole own thing. Okay, at some point we're going to have to get to the show, but the comments are coming in. So, let's keep going. Um, Taco says he's on a Mac holding the Ego key. >> I guess EG means example. >> Example. Okay. It's not like there's a key called the E key. Oh, okay. It will give you a little pop after which you can select what decoration you want. Okay. Thank you. I just learned something, too. >> And James says number four is actually bad in Chinese culture because when it's pronounced in Cantonese, it sounds like the word dead or end, which is an unhappy coincidence, I guess. Oh. Oh gosh. There we go. Right. >> Don't tell me that you don't learn something every time. every time you watch this show. But you can tell me it's of no use whatsoever. But there we go. That's uh that's what we got for you. Yeah, indeed. That was good little trivia. >> Um okay, let's get to the bits and pieces of our show. This is us, wpbuilds.com. If you fancy keeping up to date with what we do, stick your email into here and you will join many thousands of other people who receive an email twice a week. I get one on a Tuesday. We package this show up. So put um put a header on it and a footer on it if you like in audio form and then repurpose it and stick it out on a Tuesday morning. That'll come tomorrow. But then we also do our podcast and that comes out on a Thursday. You'll get an email about that. This is it. I had a chat this week with Oh. Oh, what a load of font. Um Nick Hamsy. Uh Nick Hamsy has the best Reese and Michelle. Do you know what Ham Hamsy? Do you know what Nick does for a living? Do either of you know? >> No. >> No. Okay, good. No, that's perfect. Right, guess just have a Just go for the most random possible thing and guess that and it won't be as random as it is. >> He's a professional wrestler. >> No, it's more weird. He's He's opened up He sells like his entire life is selling Pokemon cards. He's got a Pokemon dealership. >> Um and he I thought Reese might have a few songs. I I I ever saw that. >> Well, he started it a few like not that many months ago with his brother and it's turned out to be it's going gang busters. Um and so he's doing that, but on the on the side what he's doing is creating a load of WordPress content and blocks and having a right old time with AI and his entire purpose is to just have a laugh with it. And it's such an interesting difference because for the with the best will in the world, WordPress can get a bit stuck in the mod. It can be because we're, you know, it's what we do for a living. We can be all serious about it. Well, it's not what Nick does for a living and Nick just wants to have a bit of a riot and you can hear it in his voice. You can hear it in the way he speaks and it's just a really fun episode. So, go check it out. It's 445. Um, you can go and check that out on our website. And then the last thing I want to mention is that we have our Black Friday deals page. I think at the moment we've got about 680. But not 600. That's a complete lie. Sorry. >> Yeah. Yeah, that's right. 280. We've got about 280 deals on that page. So, absolutely loads. I mean, it looks like a wall of deals at the moment. But the idea really is that you hit this yellow button and then you sort of drill down. So, I don't know, I might type in something SEO or something like that. And then hopefully that would filter down to something slightly more relevant. Then you can reset the filter and begin again and what have and and all of the um all of the deals, they're kind of shown what the what the percentage off is, so you got some kind of idea as to whether or not it might be for you. But by the end of the next week or two, there'll probably be about 400 on there. There typically is. It's at wpbuilds.com/black if you want to bookmark that. And uh I don't use affiliate links or anything. So, you know, there's no sort of like there's no one that I want to promote over the others except this little bit at the top. In order to make this thing sort of pay for itself, I have these little sponsorship cards. I've got WS form. I got a couple coming uh in the next few days. So, if you want your product or service to go onto there, you can click these little get started links and uh in exchange for some US dollars, I will uh I will put you onto that page uh like WS form of DOM. Yoohoo. Thank you, Mark Wesgard. So that's wpbuilds.com/black. Last bit of self-promotion. I chatted to Roger Williams this week. Well, it wasn't this week. I recorded him a little while ago. Um, and this is over on the WP Tavern podcast and he's talking about sponsoring uh in the WordPress space, but a different kind of sponsoring, sponsoring people to do WordPressy things like write code and manage events and all of that kind of stuff. And he's trying to help wrangle that over at Kinster. And because he's doing it at Kinster, he's come up with a few intuitions which he thinks are worth sharing. And so wpavern.com and search for episode 193 if you fancy that. Okay, that's all my promotiony bits. The next few bits then are coming uh directly from Reese's keyboard. So we got three bits that Reese wanted to share with us this week. The first one, now I don't know if that page looks the same every time you click the link. So if I refresh it, do we get something slightly different? Let's have a look. Yes, we do. What is this? What the heck are we looking at? >> So, last time I was on I think I mentioned Cloudhiker, which is basically like a Stumble Upon replacement. >> Yeah. >> Um, in my quest to find replacements for the greatest website that's ever existed, which is Stumble Upon, >> uh, I found this uh, and it actually is kind of from you, Nathan, because you mentioned Kaggi a few weeks back on this podcast. >> Yeah. >> I checked it out and I was like, "Oh, this is good." And um spoiler alert, there's another khaki link coming up a little bit later on. But this is um >> yeah, so this is a small web randomizer. So the way way it is is any time you visit it um you will get a blog post and the blog post the way in which it works is that you have to submit your blog to it and any if you have posted within the last week it will be it can be shown randomly. Nice. >> So, I have been I my blog's on this um so and it does send a few people to it. >> Gosh. >> Yeah. Like about not like two or three a day >> literally like like not huge numbers but >> two or three a day just just randomly. What's quite nice about it is a submission process in that you can submit yourself, but you have to submit three other people. >> Oh, that's cool. >> Yeah. So, it won't it won't allow you to submit your own blog, but you will have to submit uh two others. So, um >> that's great. What a neat idea way to kind of just build it up. And this has kind of replaced my doom scrolling to a degree. >> So I'm not I reduced the amount of time that I've spent on like Reddit and Facebook and social media and I'm spending it on this. And whilst the blogs it varies, you know, I'm not saying that every single blog is hit and miss, but like the first one I got was how the new Ryan Air um airline digital passes work. And I was like, this is fascinating. I never knew it was fascinating, but I am all in. And there was like 3,000 words on it. I also discovered a blog that was um which is interested in I'm really into video games and it had like all Super Mario like the Norwegian sticker book from 1992 all printed out and it's just it's just different and it's calming and it's nice and it's it reduces my blood pressure and a lot of it you know isn't great. Um, >> it's not the content that you would necessarily go search for, but you just click the refresh >> like this one. It's just like, can I make the drinks from the movie cocktail? >> It's just random >> and it's just great. And >> it's just it's is not it's quite calming and it's >> I I wonder if the um I wonder if the algorithm behind it is entirely, you know, using the rand function or something like that, you know, so it really is random. Or I wonder if it I wonder if they uh they have some intuitions as to what's you know gets you clicked. I'm guessing knowing what I know about this new newish company Kaggi uh I I think it will be totally random. I everything about them screams like not trying to game your conscience. Uh sorry your consciousness not trying to game you with an algorithm. So I'm going to guess that it's entirely random. What's really interesting is when you look at them, have you seen how many are WordPress? Like you can just see the you can see the themes from days gone by, can't you? >> I don't know if that one is that one's not screaming WordPress, but most of them are. >> And um so you can find this at kaggi. So it's k aga.com small web. >> Yes. and uh go there and click the recycle button or you can just click the uh the new post button and you get something different. >> Oh, and you can flag you can say that some things are you know you want to see videos or comics or maybe and there's a contribute button as well. >> Yes. >> Okay. Okay. That's interesting. Um all right kaggi.coms small webb. Now the next thing that ree sent me was this. Oh this Oh this makes me quite annoyed actually. So, I'm gonna calm down and let you explain. >> Okay. So, uh to try and explain it as best as I can, and it won't be as good as if Tim was here. He could explain it far more better. But FFmpug is a long time opensource project that its goal is to be able to read every single video that has ever been put out, no matter what it was originally on. And it's one of those projects a bit like curl and a bit like u they talk about lib XML that's kind of used in everything. Um they think that is probably in YouTube I think is pro they think is probably in things like Amazon Prime which are the two main proponents of why they are angry. Um FFmpeg also has quite a vocal uh social media presence. I will leave it at that. they are very very opinionated in their views on how things should work. Now what has happened has been Google runs you know its own um systems I I forget what it's called big sleep >> like big it's like bug bounty programs >> bug bounty programs and things like that because they're Google they also have their own security researchers and they use a lot of AI >> what has happened has been the open source contributors behind ffmpug are getting to the point where is going we are overwhelmed with the amount of security holes you are finding in our system. Now, if these are genuine security holes, then yeah, they should they they they probably should get fixed. The problem is some of them aren't that big. So the one that they kind of highlight in this blog post was that Google through AI and a couple of security researchers um who they I assume they pay I don't know um managed to find flagged something as a medium security risk and this is where I kind of came in is that the issue was in a video game from 1995 uh for the PC which meant that the first 10 uh frames of an FMV within the game like a like a video within a game don't doesn't run properly. So it's and and Google said this is a medium security risk. We need to get this fixed >> because the number of people who are playing that game rendering the first 10 frames of that 1995 >> video game is zero and has been for at least two decades. I mean I' I wouldn't put zero because it is a Star Wars Rebel Assault game that's pretty good that it's probably it's probably in the at the absolute most and >> there are kind of two ways to kind of look at this in the FFmpeg are turning around and going >> the FM Meg side is going look you're a billion dollar company fund us you know otherwise we're just going to ignore every single security you or you know a lot of these security bugs and the other half is going well you know you need to fix this I don't know I'd probably on the side of fm this especially because >> like um YouTube uses ffmpeg so Google make money off this and doesn't really support it or support it in just a way in a way that's quite um hard to follow. Like it supports it on their terms rather than just go here's a bunch of money do something quickly. >> Yeah, >> it's it's ridiculous. And I think that they talk about this Nick Wellenhoffer as well who've who looked after lib XML 2 who just turned around and says I'm not doing this anymore. Find somebody else. >> Yeah. This is the problem. So So FFmpeg, I mean it really is embedded in so much stuff, you know, just the things like VLC player and a bunch of other stuff. Yeah. >> And it wouldn't surprise me if if YouTube as it's, you know, rendering. So you upload some random video format, I mean from wherever the heck you are on the internet and it'll make it so that you can see it. It wouldn't surprise me if that's just ffmpeg sitting in the background doing stuff. Um and and obviously now that AI is around and Google can can you know probe the the software a thousand times a minute and discover some crazy unhuman discoverable um CVE score give it like a medium or what have you. It it does seem a little bit chish to sort of go demanding of FFmpeg. Obviously, you know, I get it from their point of view. You just look at it entirely logically. It makes sense. They're doing a good thing. They're discovering vulnerabilities and they're disclosing them responsibly. The problem is you can't deluge and they call it here, they call it CVE slop. >> Yeah. So, you know, it's just like this tidal wave, this tsunami of problems coming your way and you can't deal with them quickly enough unless you just stop working on the project. But what they're trying to say in this article is we're just a bunch of volunteers. If you keep feeding us these problems at the rate that you're giving them to us, that's going to grind the project into the ground. So, I I don't know what you do in the era of AI where this stuff is now possible. It does seem like put the brakes on or do it on the quiet. I don't know. or just give them a b bunch of money. >> Yeah. I mean, one of the solutions which was raised literally the paragraph after is like saying if Google finds it, Google can patch it. >> Yeah, that's an interesting idea, right? >> And I think that would probably solve a lot of the problems. But again, does that kind of knock on another problem because it's not just a case of patching it and you, you know, here is the code that needs to be reviewed by somebody else. It's so interesting because of the size of a project like that, you know, it's just deployed absolutely all over the place and it's such an invisible thing. >> You know, if you're watching, let's say it is on Amazon Prime or whatever, you know, their video streaming service, if they're using it, you're never going to know that. You're never going to >> I mean, it's probably it's, let's be honest with this, it's probably in the video recording for this podcast. >> Oh, I would very much assume it is. I would imagine that's exactly what's going on because it's free, right? It's free open source software. You you can put it on your server and what have you. So it's a really new and interesting problem and and map this in the near future to a thousand other similarsized projects which is just run by volunteers who are propping up the internet and I don't know what we do with that. >> Um yeah >> is it really a new problem though if you think about the past like think about the plug-in repo right and when we had a backlog of 800 plugins and they're working through them as as quickly and efficiently as they can also with all volunteers. I think it's a it's a challenge for open source. >> Yeah. >> Um and it just gets stickier when it's a security issue as opposed to just a backlog of um new innovation. >> Yeah. >> Wow. That's a really interesting one. Okay. So, I think I I don't know how everybody will fall down on this one, but um it's a free project. You know, if there was a if there was a I don't know SLA agreement that Google had signed with the FFmpeg people, maybe that would be different, but it's not. It's free open source software. So, it's different. Taco sent me a challenge. Oh, for goodness sake. Uh, right. So, apparently, apparently there is an actual phobia. Um, if you've got fear of the number 666, how do you know this, Techo? I'm imagining you Googled it quickly. And he wants >> I'm going to guess he Googled it, >> right? So, it's so apparently I've got to pronounce it. It's about four about 30 letters, I'd say. Hexacosio hex contrahexophobia. I think I did pretty good. >> I think that's pretty good. I'm impressed. >> Yeah, I'm pretty happy with that. So, >> next next uh next week when I'm safely in the chat, I'll send you some Welsh. >> Okay. No, no, don't send me any Welsh. Uh go and Google though the fear of long words because it is a massivelyable long word. It's so hysterical. Uh okay. So, there we go. So there I have tried it. Um and just so that you know James says Rex Reddit is a tox success pool. So go to kaggi.com/w whatever the heck it was. Where is it? >> Small web to find out more. Right, we've got one more from uh Ree before we move on to Michelle's piece. This is Kaggi again, but what's going on here? >> Oh, this is just this is just silly and it just made me laugh. Uh Kaggi have on their website a bloopers section. So they for their search it is just fun results that come up and I think in the world of um AI being confidently wrong having a page where we go you know what we are wrong you know and it's just it just it just kind of like some of the ones just if you scroll down they're they're rel they're safe for work and they're just they're just >> it's like screenshots of where people have gone to Kaggi as a search engine and asked it something and instead of getting anything right, it just totally freaked out and gave up just nonsense. So, somebody typed in 44N zed or NZ dollars to US. And what that to me is saying is tell me how many dollars I get in US dollars if I've got 44 New Zealand dollars >> and instead of giving you a number, it says one New Zealand dollar and microsconds are not compatible. I don't even know. I How did it get microscond? What the heck's that? Is an NZ a microscond. Is that what that is? >> No, it's it's a US >> US. So, yeah, >> I think US instead of MS for microscond. >> Oh, I see. Okay. Okay. That's interesting. And then we got another one here where somebody uh somebody asked uh I guess they typed in the word hacker or something. They wanted a description just of what the word hacker is. And you know, normally it spells it out and gives you sound. Well, it says one who works, one who works hard at boring tasks. That's great. Synonyms are drudge and hack. That's a good one. And then some this one made me think of somebody's threaten. They wanted to know they wanted to know 1337 in French. see just want the number maybe the date uh 30 37 in French and so they got that and the answer they got out was pure numbers of French are not compatible. So if you're French apologies the Kaggi search engine has determined that you none of you can count. Yeah, but I just think that that is in a world where like everything just has to be almost perfect. Next one >> and a world where see I I looked at this offline. >> Yeah, this is why I'm not laugh. >> Yeah. No, this is brilliant. I love it. So, somebody's the next one which made me titter as well. Got Michelle going. It says half half pony. The answer is not 0.5 US ponies. I mean, I don't know. I don't know why it's got to be a US pony, but it's so they've what's nice here is whatever their algorithm is, they've clearly identified, you know, areas for improvement, but they've uh rather than doing it on the quiet, they're they're publishing because they're hilarious. >> And one one the next one is one password manage, sorry, one password generator. They're obviously trying to know a little bit more about that software and all they get back is the answer five. >> Five. >> This could be a real time suck though. I could spend hours reading this. >> Do you think that Do you think that that's they're giving you that password? You know, use the password five because that's secure. Uh and it goes on. There's a few more, but that will stop there. >> Oh my goodness. Hysterical. >> That is so good. That's brilliant. And uh made me laugh. Uh, 133. So, we got some more commentary here. Courtney Robertson says 1337 equals elite speak. 1337 means elite. Throwback to Oh, like predictive typing. I see kids these days will never know. I did not know that. Microscond is Oh, look. Taco says it's the What is that character again? >> Mu. >> Mu. So, it's mu, which looks like us. Yeah, but you got to imagine the search engine is not it's not looking at the search. You got to imagine it. It got the character you from that search. Anyway, that's absolutely brilliant. Um, what else have we got? And then Taco follows up by Oh, >> I'm late speak years old, too. >> Okay. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Oh, that's good. I love that. >> I saw something on live which is this. This is I'm an elite hacksaw. I'm elite hacksaw. I'm I'm 40 years old with a hurty back saw. >> I don't even know what that means, but I like it because it rhymes. >> Yeah, that's all that I need to know. Okay, so that comedy will presumably get more and more over time. That's um the link will be in the show notes, but it's help. Bloopers and you too can uh go and enjoy the and if you get any uh go and add them in. So yeah, just so that you know, Kaggi is the search engine that I prefer these days. I've completely binned Google. Literally everything that is to do with search is now done for me via Kaggi. Go and check it out. There's quite a few interesting little features they've got there, including you can wait your search. So for example, you can tell it that you like some websites more than others. Uh you have to pay. So there's that. You have to pay a fee every year or every month if you want to use it. But I think there's a there's a there's a free tier, but it you know, you quickly use you burn through that pretty quickly. So, uh I've paid for it and I really like it. Okay, that was Reese's stuff. Gosh, Reese, you used up half the show. That was so good though. Well done. Uh right, so to Michelle. Michelle, what have you got for us here? Yeah. So, um, all of my contracts that I had this year have, uh, expired. And so, I am on a two-month semi-sabbatical. So, November and December, I am working for myself and post status. And so, I've been working on a marketing boutique, >> which is basically just the store on my website, but I'm a marketer, so I had to call it something fun. >> Uh, and I have created a whole bunch of services that I have to offer. So for for example, DEIB consulting, pick my brain, personal branding coaching, public speaking coaching, um you know, blogging for other people, custom 404 page content and wireframing, all of those different kinds of things. And so these are my and uh by the way, the custom 404 page is $44. Not at all. >> Very good. >> That was Mark Wgard's idea. I love it. >> I call everything. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I know, right? >> That is good. So good. >> And there's going to be more. I have some I have one downloadable right now. I'm creating more downloadables. So those take a little bit more time than just putting some things up on the web. So I'm going to be creating a lot more. And I'm going to be launching um a intensive probably 20week um marketing workshop for plug-in developers who are working on their own and could use a little marketing help. So that's going to be coming. I'm working on the um the uh outline for that right now. And so I'm going to be launching that probably in December. Uh I'll I'll put it out there and it'll begin in February. So if there are plug-in developers who think I just really need some help getting these things out there, um you know, I I will only take five people because it's going to be an intensive and so I want to be able to make sure everybody gets the attention that they need. So So yes, during my semi-obatical, I'm also very busy just working on my own things right now. So >> that's lovely. So I'll just read the URL into the record so that you can get it if you're just consuming this on audio. Uh so it's Michellechette.commarketing-boutique and you can see all the different bits and pieces that Michelle is available for. And if you know anything about Michelle, she's ubiquitous. Let's go with that word. She's everywhere all at once and uh really gets this sort of stuff inside and out. So, DEIB co uh consulting, there's a pick my brain session, personal branding, coaching, personal uh sorry, public speaking, and a whole bunch of other stuff. So, thank you. That's great. We >> thank you for letting me share. >> Oh, no, of course. That's absolutely fine. >> Um and then we'll get to the WordPressy stuff. So, we're going to have to race through a bunch of these. Maybe some of the bits that I dropped into the show notes panelists will just drop because we might not have time. But here we go. So, uh WordPress 6.9 is coming around the corner. Um we're on release candidate one. If you're unfamiliar with how this works, we we have all these alpha and beta testing cycles. And then finally, just before the the software is released into the wild, we have these release candidates, uh, typically three, something like that, where it's more or less finished. The hope is is finished. Um, but there's just this last little chance to hoover up any bugs that may have crept in. And so if you want to be a part of this and test it, which many people would think is a really great thing to do, then uh please go and check this post out. It the links will be in the show notes. And there's a few bits and pieces here just saying what's in there probably in terms of like what to look out for. So it's the things like the site editor improvements that we'll come on to in a minute. There's a bunch of develop developer updates and some performance improvements as well. So if you're not new and this is your, you know, this is your bag and you've done it lots and lots of times, it'll give you guidance and then importantly how you do it. There's steps here about how you can uh get involved and what people really need testing. So accordion blocks, ability to hide blocks, blah blah blah, loads of stuff in there. So go check that out. I don't suppose either of you have got anything to say about that, so I'll just press on. I was just going to say I I I did a little search the other day to find out what version was the first version of WordPress I used and discovered it was 3.1 and it's like we're on 6.9 already. That's crazy. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's a that's really old. That was when the dinosaurs were still Stegosaurus was using uh WordPress 3.1. So go check it out. Right. So we will move on quickly. So um the new thing launching in 6.9 pretty seismic. I think it's entirely possible if you're a casual user of WordPress, entirely possible that this will pass you by entirely. But it it lays the groundwork for developers in particular to do a lot of really clever stuff. So if you think about WordPress, if you think about it, every time you go into WordPress, you're just doing stuff all the time. You're clicking buttons, creating posts, deleting stuff, adding users, creating blocks, changing themes. You think of the myriad things, the the hundreds, possibly thousands of things that you can do. Imagine calling those instead of just sort of saying that's a thing, call it an ability. And that's basically what this new WordPress API enables developers to do. they're able to hook into all of those things in this totally standardized way so that in the future developers of any kind, but I'm thinking particularly about AI and what it might be able to do will be able to hook into this new sort of firstass citizen inside of WordPress and be able to do some pretty funky things. Like I said, if you're not a developer, it's probably a little bit in the weeds, but if you are a developer, then Jonathan Bossinger uh wrote up exactly what it is that you can do, what it offers to developers, and so on and so forth, you know, and it gets into the weeds and the code, and so it's not really suitable for an audio podcast, but if if you haven't heard of this and you're not familiar with it, then uh I think it's going to be like really gamechanging um for WordPress, especially in the advent of AI because this will allow AIS is if you ask it to do stuff, it will be able to do the things because it knows how >> to do the things if that makes sense. Anything to add about that? >> Not really. >> Lovely. That's fine. But yeah, good good article. We've been talking about it for absolutely ages, but Jonathan's kind of encapsulated it just in the run-up to the latest version of WordPress. Now, this is kind of an interesting one. So, I'm showing on the screen a post by Adam Silverstein. It's called notes and it's coming in the next few weeks to your WordPress install. So the idea is in the in the very near future you'll be able to have okay collaborative editing. It is not but it's the capacity for you to add a note inside of the WordPress block editor. It's fairly constrained where you can use it. So like in a p post or a page totally available and you can excuse me you can add a note on a blockbyblock basis. So, for example, you could paragraph, add a little note saying, I don't know, um, oh, I don't know, editorial team, will you please check the spelling of this paragraph or something like that. And then you can kind of save it and it'll be there forever more for people to look at. And you'll be able to do things like track changes. Um, you'll be able to take actions on that, you know, confirm that it's been resolved and what have you. Kind of things you might do in Google Docs. What it can't do though is it can't step out of the constraints of like things like posts or pages. So, it's limited in use. You can't use it, I don't know, in the back end of WordPress um for check out this new plugin that I've uploaded or anything. So, it's going to be used inside of those and you can't do bits inside of uh blocks. You're going to do the whole paragraph. It's a note by block only. So, that's coming. And I just thought that was worth mentioning and um kind of slipped under the radar a lot but it's a cool new feature and it steps into the sphere of collaborative editing which we'll get into in a little bit but it's coming your way and there's a post here. Um again it's a developer post I won't go into it. Adam Silverstein suggests how you might wish to implement this in various different scenarios. one one thing which I think could be really useful and maybe like an add-on plugin is to get the notes to displaying on the front end >> and I but but only to like logged in individuals for like developers and builders when you're receiving feedback for a design it could be quite a useful way because like as somebody who does this professionally I get feedback in Google Docs I get feedback in emails I get feedback in Figma files. I get I have to sign up to a this is a screenshot with us commenting on it. I've had like printouts before and people just writing print out. >> Yeah. >> Having like a standard a way to maybe do it within WordPress could be interesting, but it may be probably couple of steps too far just yet. Maybe just like a plug-in to begin with. >> Yep. But that was the first thing that I kind of thought of was >> yeah I I guess to to me the most use given the constraints that I have around the way that I interact with WordPress I no longer build clients websites for me like note to self is like a really credible thing you know like I'll write a paragraph and I'll but I'll just sort of end halfway through and I'll put something in saying okay come back to this later finish it off the language is wrong it's too long it's too short whatever >> so even as a note to self it might be quite interesting but you can definitely assign it to other users and what have you, but it's it's the beginning, right? It's we're not at the end of this journey. Um, yeah, >> Michelle, anything or should we crack on? >> I just think it's a great idea and I think it's a good, you know, it's really definitely uh forward moving and growth in WordPress and I think that especially for people who are in the writing part of it, right? So, you're maybe running a blog for a company and there's seven or eight different writers. It's really a good feedback tool and it will move us out of Google Docs and right into um right into the WordPress editor. >> Yeah. Well, that's the perfect segue because the next few bits are about exactly this this broader definition called collaborative editing. So many years ago, it's kind of got lost a bit in the weeds of the different bits and pieces, but we got we're in this four-phase project for Word of the the block editor. Um, and we're in the third one at the moment, which is collaborative editing. And the idea is to create something akin to Google Doc. So, this this bit that we're looking at now, notes, feels like a little bit of that. But um over here we have a post on the make.wordpress.org website by an McCarthy where she uh describes a little bit more about the where we're at with collaboration efforts within WordPress. And um there's a there's a few bits around real time collaboration. So this the idea I guess would be to get to what you would see in Google Docs. But when you look at Google Docs, all of the magic that you see there, if you if you imagine all of that is just going in and out of Google's billions and billions of dollars worth of infrastructure, piece of cake for Google. If you're on like super affordable, cheap hosting, doing that kind of real time collaborative effort is either going to be non impossible or certainly it's going to add some I don't know, it's going to be difficult. Let's put it that way. And so this project is in kind of like a an inprogress state and an goes on to describe where we're at and what the possible things are in the future. However, kind of curiously um mentions here that WordPress VIP, which is I don't know how to describe that. It's like the fast lane for um lots of major um websites like you know think something like the White House or something like that is probably with VIP. Um, so the constraints are much less. There's probably lots of money being spent there, what have you. And the team over there are really aligned with the cutting edge of WordPress. They have a working implementation of this which is demonstrated here. Uh, and again, I'll link to this in the show notes, but you can Google this for yourself or kaggy this for yourself. That's never going to be a noun, is it? Or a verb to kaggy. Um, so this one's called for humans who work together. The future of collaborative collaborative editing in WordPress VIP. And although you don't actually see it, there's a lot of text here. And there's a video somewhere. I think it's probably I don't know. It's probably scrolled past it. It kind of looked like an image, didn't it? >> Yeah. >> The video, although it purports to show what we want to see, it doesn't. It's like a video of, you know, it's like a graphic graphic version of what you want to see. is clearly not inside a WordPress website. Well, apparently anyway, they've cracked this not, but the the idea is that they probably haven't cracked it with the infrastructure that you or I, you know, >> I won't have access to that on my website. >> Well, you know, but but but what if though, what if say somebody like Jetack were to offer, I'm just going to make up numbers like5 $10 a month or something and they give you that infrastructure. I can see that as something which may come online. You know who needs collaborative editing? Well, if you really need it and you're on a cheap host in every other way, you know, here's $10. We'll give you the infrastructure to make that happen. Ree, it feels like you've got something to say. >> Oh, no. I I I think it's I think you do raise a good point. You you pretty much said the point I was probably going to make. I was going to say there will be somebody who will break from the from the pack and go, you know what, we can offer Yeah. Is it because he uses um the the the WPVIP uses websockets which yeah >> is quite a you need a pretty good host to uh to offer it. Um so yeah they uh somebody will break from the pack and go we're going to offer websockets for cheap you know and then all of a sudden you can use you can use that. Um, I had a I had a piece somewhere where they and I I can't remember if it were this piece or another piece, but there was something that I looked at sometime this week where they described three different approaches for how this may be tackled. >> Uh, and I'm looking at a variety of different pieces here. >> I think it was the >> Was it the Oh, here we go. >> Is that it? Is it No, it's not. >> No, it's not. It was the three different >> It was like >> Yeah, maybe. Let's have a look here. So, I'm I'm also looking at a repository piece. There's a few bits that have dropped this week all around this collaborative editing. >> Let's just have a little look see if we can find something with like a three bullet point list. So there we go. That's lovely. So here are here are three different So again, excuse me. I'll just mention it in full. This piece is on the repository by Ray Murray. Uh it's called Realtime Collaboration Flagged for WordPress 7.0 amid ongoing technical challenges. So if you want to find it, go Google that. I got an email from somebody the other day saying, "You mentioned a piece and you didn't say what it was called." So, I'm definitely trying harder to say uh say what they're called uh so that I don't get told off again. So, here we go. The first one is HTTP long polling, which auto saves work periodically. Obviously, you can imagine the downside of that. It might not have saved it when you clicked close. >> Uh it might do it every 30 seconds, in which case things might not be saved in a current way. You can see the downsides of that. The other one uh is web RTC peer-to-peer which enables direct browser to browser connections which is great. Better performance um and it doesn't require websockets. So maybe that's going to be something to look at. And then this one feels like the Premier League version of it. Websockets provides the fastest experience for sites uh whose hosting supports them. This approach is the one that WordPress VIP use. But a lot of for technical reasons, a lot of cheaper, for one of a better word, web host will not have this enabled in your >> um account. So anyway, we've no idea how we're going to cross that Rubicon, but there are different technical approaches. WordPress VIP have cracked that knot, but you know, it's going to be difficult in the future. So loads and loads of different pieces around that. So there's the first one from an second one by Ray and then this third one which that mega menu really does kind of get in the way there the minute you go anywhere near the top. Um and then this third one by WP VIP Enterprise WordPress. Anything else or shall we move on? Okay, just to say Here we go. Mark Wcard says good morning. That's hello. Nice to nice to have you with us, Mark. And I'm going to make that go away. Right, moving on then. So, um, lots of the WordPress events that you attend, if you ever go, you're probably aware that there's some sort of sponsorship going on in the background. You know, you you see familiar companies appearing over and over and over again. And that may be because of this thing, the global partner program. Uh, it goes on an annual basis. So companies sign up and then in order because they've signed up they get access to the sort of global network. So it doesn't just cover the flagship events like the word camp Asiaas and US and EU and that kind of thing. It also covers a whole bunch of other things. So for example, let me see if I can find it. There was a little list somewhere of the things that were included. I can't find it now. Oh yeah, here we go. Uh it covers sponsorship of local WordPress events. So for example, things like meetups and things like that. It will cover the meetup license for it will help cover the cost of a meetup license for the the people who are organizing those meetups. It will also cover the administrative costs for things like insurance, banking, and annual financial audits that ensure transparent operations. But from a sponsorship point of view, I guess the thing that you're interested in is that you get exposure at all of those different things. So depending on the tier that you go in at um you will get a different level of representation and you can see the cost here. When I look at these numbers they just seem so eye watering but um I guess if you're a big company you know these kind of numbers are just eh yeah it is what it is. So three levels global leader is $180,000 regional powerhouse is $110,000. Community builder is $60,000. And there's like a tick list here of all the different things. I read somewhere this week about about this whole thing becoming more flat. I don't know if there was much more sort of nuance or you could cherry pick what you wanted in the past, but anyway, they're the um they're the different bits and pieces. Anybody got anything on that? >> I'm just grateful to the sponsors. >> Yeah. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, it's a funny one, isn't it? Because you you kind of don't really know that they are global SP unless you're like really in the weeds of it all. You wouldn't know that they were a global sponsor. you'd kind of just assume that they've paid. But I I I don't know what the ROI is on a lot of those things. I'm imagining there's a lot of philanthropy in that. You know, I don't suppose you're going to turn up to all of those WordPress events and get a return specifically on the on the investment, but the fact that you are doing it and you probably have your logo and badge put in all sorts of places where cudos is acquired. As somebody who has organized a lot of word camps, I will say though that like when when you get your list of global sponsors that you have to put on the website >> for the word camp, >> it'll say these ones are gold sponsors, these ones are silver sponsors, that kind of thing. >> And I think it leads to a misinformation to people who are attending or looking to also sponsor. So, for example, from the global pool of money, your word count might get $2,500, but you've listed three gold and a silver sponsor, which looks like you've gotten, you know, maybe $3,500 or it's, you know, bigger camps that cost more when the reality is you haven't got that much. I would much rather >> list that these are our global sponsors, these are the ones who've paid a,000, these are the ones who paid 500, etc. So I think it leads to a little bit of misinformation. People think that you might be overfunded or that you don't need more sponsors when that isn't always the case. >> Okay. So just to prize that apart because because that money is going to the central repository for one of a better word. If you're running a meetup and you're you're showing those global sponsors, it might look as if you're just a wash with sponsorship whereas in fact you might be struggling financially to run that thing. I see. But the but the madeup itself doesn't necessarily have like different levels, but the word camps do. And that's where it really becomes this thing that looks like a little bit of a disparity. Actually, it doesn't look like disparity. It is disparity, but people don't know that there is one. And so that you may actually still need a lot of sponsorship because you didn't get a lot from the general fund, >> but it looks like you're overfunded from the general fund. >> Yeah, that's interesting. Re something there to add there. Sorry. >> No, I was just I'm just not agree with Michelle. The way in which it works is this is this is again this is >> you know eight years ago when I did uh work at Manchester was we were told that the global sponsors need to have the same level as the we had a local host who sponsored us like a UK based host who's who was like the top tier sponsor and whilst they we had to put them at the same level. >> Got it. >> You know, so so one of them I not singling them out, but but it's the one I remember was Jetpack. >> So we had to put Jetpack on the same level as um >> Right. >> Host. >> Yeah. Explicitly told that this is what you need. Whatever you offer them, you offer us. >> Okay. So yeah, that's that's interesting, isn't it? Because then if you then it looks like you got two lots of whatever the so the host the the sponsorship company who went to you and paid you x amount of pounds it would look to them as if jetpack had paid that x amount of pounds directly to you as well. I see what you mean. Okay. That's interesting. Yeah. I know that a lot of WordPress event meet um organizers this this conversation goes backwards and forwards all the time doesn't it? Sadly, I don't have the perfect answer for anybody. But um >> anyway, if you are interested and you have the pockets that are deep enough to satisfy those amounts of dollars, then uh that's up and available. Uh I will link to it in the show notes. Okay, moving on. Bit more sort of designy, staring into the future kind of work. This is uh Rich Tabore. If you haven't heard of Rich Tabore, he is an he's now he has been for several years an automatician. and um he's launched this little new project called WordPress explorations. And he's right. He's one of these key figures in um automatic where I think he he gets to make quite a few decisions about the way WordPress is going to behave in the future. Certainly probably the way it looks and things like that. And I'll just read the very top of his article because it's kind of interesting. And so there's not a lot to say about what's happening now, but this is more of a maybe bookmark this because hopefully Rich will produce some content in the near future. He says, "I've been thinking about WordPress differently lately, taking a step back from the accumulated complexity and simply imagining how it could exist. WordPress has grown both in capability and in many different shapes it can take. That evolution enables millions of people to publish online, but it also adds layers of complexity that have built up over time. So, in this new series of posts, I'm exploring what else could be. What if we could rebuild the ship with the knowledge of everything we've learned along the way? What could we do differently today?" And I'll just read that last little paragraph. I want to question every assumption, challenge requirements carved in stone, strip concepts down to their core, and ask what's actually needed because what that's often where innovation happens when you stop accepting constraints as given. Now, if this had been me writing this blog post, I think you could basically ignore it because you know what what what lever do I get to pull about this? But I'm curious as to why Rich is doing this. Maybe it's just a, you know, an experiment he's running in his own mind. You know, he just wants to see what what he can come up with and what people like the look of and so on. But also at the same time, I'm kind of wondering, okay, is he doing this so that he gets some intuitions about what what he actually wants to happen and what might get implemented inside of WordPress. So that was on the 10th of November. And then following on more or less immediately on the same day, uh the first one of these ideas dropped and it was all about the the way that pages and layers work. Now, I don't know if you've worked inside of full-sight editing or just the block editor. It is a hot mess knowing where the heck you're going to end up. Like I now know that if I click on the logo top left, if I'm in the block editor, I click it, wait for five seconds, then I click it again, and wait for another 5 seconds, and then I kind of get back to where I'm expecting to be. But unfamiliar users, this UI is just a total like there's just so many ways to get lost and not know where you're going. And so this is the first thing that he's tackling. He's trying to make it so that you click on things and they sensibly go to other things. There's a tiny little short video here, but you can see he's got this sort of slightly different UI that he's playing with and exploring and it's laid out differently like this. So, he's got pages in one tab and layers in another tab and so on and so forth. And um yeah, and so it goes and I made a little comment at the bottom because I thought, oh, he's going to be delighted. I made a com he's going to wake up and have that happy Monday morning feeling. Oh, great. Um, but I think it's an interesting experiment to follow. Uh, because he's definitely a somebody that can make that change happen. I talked way too much about that. I'm sorry. Do you want to talk about that either of you? >> I don't use that. >> Yeah. >> No, I mean I I don't use it. I think it's interesting that he's, you know, saying these are the problems. Um, >> because I think they're probably they probably are. Well, it it is interesting if you're if you you can easily get trapped inside the UI and there is no you know how in WordPress you can always like figure out a way around it. So you can I don't know you you just you just learn the muscle memory in the in the in the normal WordPress with the admin bar along the top and then you know the menu down the left that it's kind of everpresent and it's always there but in in what we've got now things get hidden menus disappear. Uh >> you end up in different random places that you weren't expecting and you've you've you've got to know that you've got to click the back arrow at the top and on you go. and where you are at the moment you click the logo in the top left corner gets you to a different spot. Basically, it's easy to screw to screw up and if you're not persevering and you're not willing to accept those faults and so I think I think this is going to be an interesting experiment. I think there's there's definitely some um >> some ideas that will come out of his mind, I'm sure, to make this uh thing a whole lot easier. So, anyway, there we go. So, go and check it out. maybe subscribe to his blog and see what he's doing over the next week or so. Well, weeks, I'm guessing. Shall I move on? >> Yeah. All right. Okay. In which case, uh, speaking of So, this is a video. I don't actually want to watch this. It was just kind of an interesting one. This was um this was a little video from somebody who did a presentation at Word Camp Canada. Uh, and I I I posted something on uh X, I think it was this week where I said I'm really enjoying full-sight editing. And there's quite a few people out there at the moment who I think are coming to the same realization. I know there's a lot of people who don't use it, will never use it, refuse to use it, you know, and all of that. But there are some some some bits of it that have just the pennies dropped for me over the last, I don't know, four, five weeks. And I really enjoy it. Uh, especially the templating. And so I'm just kind of curious looking around to see what other people are finding the same initiative. So this was a piece uh which came from Joe Simpson. I'm sure Michelle knows Joe pretty well. I don't I do. >> Yeah. Um and it was his talk about why he's kind of decided after many after many months of saying I'm not going or years even of saying I'm not going near full sight editing why he's decided to give it another go. And I'm right there. I was classic themes all the way. Happy with how they worked. familiar with a few themes that I was familiar with and they did everything I wanted them to do. And then more recently, I started playing with full-sight editing, particularly Ollie. I don't know if you've come across that theme by Mike Mallister and really enjoyed what he's done over there and just made life a little bit easier. So, so that was the piece from Joe Simpson. I'll put that in the show notes. And then this piece came from humanmade which was almost like made for me to read it. Um, and it's about them them having this project where they decided they would lean into full-sight editing. I'm sure that Human Made were probably doing that anyway. But the the reason it kind of fitted for me perfectly was because they decided that they were just rather than reinvent the wheel and come up with their own thing, they were just going to use Ollie. >> Yeah. >> This scene by Mike Mallister because of I mean it's a full-sight editing theme, so it uses all the fullsight editing features, but the killer that they've got is these patterns. They've got these this suite of hundreds and hundreds of really nicely designed patterns and really for most projects there's probably something in there you can point click modify slightly uses core blocks and um and so humanmade for this particular project decided to just go with that stack folly and then whatever the heck else they built into it and this is a an article explaining exactly why they did that and how they did it. anything on that one, anybody? >> No, it's it's it's it's interesting they've gone with Ollie. I mean it's it's something I've kind of found probably myself you know I'm not you know I'm a freelancer not an agency but I have >> I would say in the last three four years like like certainly in the last two to three years I have gone from building themes from scratch using you know a a framework to ollie cadence one of those things where it's just >> cuz cuz you can you can you can do it a lot quicker and I think what this article kind of says is yeah you could get the same results >> and it'll probably work going forward like even now I a couple of my older sites or you know some of the ones that I built myself they weren't wrong I wasn't doing it wrong but it was it's it's just like something new has come on board so you know to use like the for example something like the padding like on blocks which wasn't when I started part of >> um the full site editing >> that has to be kind of added >> added on now. So I have to go in and go okay well this has to be got thing with with something like Oie it's should be >> well I mean he's leverage he's leveraging I mean he just uses core blocks as far as I can see he's but also that that there's him um and I forget who else he's with he's with somebody else he's partnered up with um and between them they've launched quite a few things recently they've got this menu designer which enables you to have a sort of nice mobile menu or something like a mega menu or something like that. But then also this week, I see that he's working on some sort of CSS uh wrangler. I don't know how that works. I saw a video and I can't really remember, but he's it's enabling you to to add your own custom CSS. And I think there's a bunch of conditions that you can add to it so that it only renders certain CSS in certain situations, which may be appropriate, you know, given that you only want it on a certain page or in a certain part of your website or what have you. So, they seem to be sort of doing a lot and I know it's not for everybody. you know, the Elementor crowd who are wedded to that will love Elementor depend, you know, whatever tool you're using. I'm not saying you should drop that. If it works for you, you do it, you know, but um I'm enjoying what's coming out with the full-sight editing side of things at the moment. And uh yeah, really loving what they're doing over at Ollie. Anything else or shall we move on? I will take that as a move on. Yeah, in which case let us go here. H. So, have either of you played with TX yet? >> Briefly. >> Briefly. So, oh, I mean, I don't even know where to begin. Like this sort of stuff two years ago was the is the stuff of dreams. You you can go to TX and basically you type in a prompt. So, imagine I don't know you want to go to chat GPT or something and it'll spit out a block based upon what you tell it to do. So, it is blocks. I'm sure that it'll come to much more, you know, different aspects of WordPress. So maybe it'll do plugins and maybe it'll do themes and that kind of thing. But you just tell it to go and make you a block. Blow me. I mean, I tried a couple of fairly straightforward things. It nailed honestly I can't tell you whether the output CSS and all of that was was great, but it did the thing that I asked it to. Fairly straightforward. You know, I wanted I don't know adaptations to text. I wanted a real estate block where I could upload h information about houses, this kind of thing. It did it. It just totally got it first time. And um and I think this is going to become a really powerful thing in the future. Um imagine a WordPress website in which you you just need a block right now and you haven't got the time to go look for one that might satisfy your criteria. You just want snowflakes falling because it's coming up to Christmas. You could just go build the block with TX. If it works on your site, it's fine. I guess the security thing is is a thing, but maybe I don't know because it's just on your site, maybe there's something to be said about that. And then you could dispose of it at the other end. This is a blog post from WordPress.com where they they find 12 uh examples out in the wild where people have built stuff using TX and it's a block. And what the heck? Somebody built Mind Sweeper. the game mind sweep. I mean like how hard is that you know and I I can only imagine the prompt was fairly straightforward like can I have mind sweeper in a >> it's also it's also looking at that it's you can change the options like you can change the >> incredible thick >> isn't it isn't it just stunning so yeah you can change the number of rows the number of columns the number of mines I mean I don't know if that came as part of the prompt given the amount of information out there about mind sweeper on the web I'm sure the AI can probably have quite a few of those intuitions all by itself. So that's a whole thing. So somebody just did that and then confetti, you know, you want somebody when they click the submit now button to get inundated with confetti. You can see it, right? You can totally see like I don't need a whole plugin that I need to waste time searching for that might do this one thing. It's just build it TX and then I'll use it and I'll bin it when I'm I'm had it. personality quiz. God knows what that would be like if I went through that. Uh but you know, it's a quiz, personality quiz or otherwise, you can imagine using that. An accordion shipping to a WordPress install near you fairly soon >> um by default. But the accordion block, if you wanted an accordion block, somebody built that. scratcher. Somebody built a text block >> where you can like I don't know it's like a c like a scratch card that you want something to be revealed as you scrape over it. It's a gimmick, right? But it's a cool little gimmick. Poker Nick Hams will like this. >> Pokémon fun facts. >> Uh what else have we got? One more bite. I didn't actually look at this one. It was something to do with recipes or whatever. >> Recipes. Yeah. >> Yeah. Space dots. You get the idea. And and if you prize this like >> like this article isn't the point like what we see as these 12 things is not the point. The point is >> that's possible. >> Yeah. >> Inside of the WordPress system inside the interface and I have no doubt this is going to drop into just WordPress core at some point. some version of this in the sidebar where you'll build it, it'll install that block for as long as you need it and then you'll be able to bin it. And that is utterly remarkable. And so this promise of blocks, which many people dislike, it enables this, which is like a little mini application inside of a block. And it can be whatever the heck your AI can imagine. Not you. You're not doing it. The the AI is going to do it for you. Isn't that cool, though? Don't you think that's remarkable? >> Yeah. Can you scroll all the way back to the top? >> Yeah. Yeah. The mind sweeper one. Yeah. >> No, no, above that. >> Oh, >> I want I would wear that sweater. I just want to say >> Oh, okay. See, there's a block sweater designer. Like right off the bat, I want a load of like low res 8bit images that I could use for my sweater designs. And it'll just give you like you just click refresh, get another one, get, you know, just wow. >> If if I may, I think Taco is making a few points to kind of slightly on the parade a little bit. >> Agreed. >> Agree with Taco. >> How far do I need to go back? >> 1313. >> 1313. Lovely. Right. Okay. Let's go for it. I love Taco's comments. Here we go. I love TX and I worry about it because no one is responsible for maintaining it. Okay. I didn't know that. That's interesting. Well, no. I think I think what he's what he's saying is that when you build a plug-in with TX, if you don't have the ability to go right, what could be wrong with this? And this is something I've kind of found a little bit with AI coding is how like somebody made this comment to me and I was like this is actually really sensible is that I I'm not I know this is probably a dangerous thing for me to say as a as a freelancer on a public forum. I make mistakes. I think everybody who codes does make mistakes, but almost like I know the mistakes that I make >> and AI >> may make mistakes that I'm not familiar with and I think TX would make you know it would write blocks in the way that it has been programmed to write blocks. >> I think Taco's I think Taco is entirely right to bring that up. Don't you? that that was kind of why so I don't know if you noticed when I said that I I mentioned right at the outset it might be a security problem. Yeah. It might be mitigated by the fact that you're the only one that has that particular block. There's that but but it it would presumably make the same mistakes >> over and over again across multiple websites. But that's interesting. Well, I mean, not necessar I mean, the when I've played with with with TX before, I've managed to get to two blocks to do exactly the same thing built completely differently. >> Okay? >> Like, it's one of those things if you if you put a prompt in, you will get almost two different ways of uh of building it. Um, yeah. And also and with the greatest of respect to the WordPress.com blog and and when he say cool a lot of the blog a lot of those ones that you highlighted they're quite with the greatest of respect quite simple like they you know it's it's it's a mind you know you're not building a massive e-commerce thing and I think there was >> it was funny one of the things that I noticed was on the weather block there was a permission denied error >> because it couldn't it couldn't access uh >> access it doesn't have access to what is again the actual weather that's kind of interesting yeah I think for me that the thing that was kind of interesting is the potential of this and I completely agree there was one further comment from Taco which I should put up Taco um said uh I'll just read it out he says I love TX and I worry about it because no one is responsible for maintaining it and then he went on to say maintaining its results that is We'll have a lot of never updated little plugins on uh live websites because of this. It's a security nightmare waiting to happen, I'm afraid. I I think you're absolutely right. My my intuitions about uh AI are not good. I I think a lot of that kind of stuff where I'm coming from with this is is more just I'm just intrigued by it. And I think you're right, Taco. If we got to the point where like thousands of people were putting thousands of these TX blocks for one of a better out there into the real world, that would be concerning. Mark Wgcard's got an interesting idea. He said it'd be interesting to pass the output through the plug-in checker, which we're going to come on to just before we finish this show today. So, that might be an interesting uh way to calm fears about that. That's an interesting one. Um and Courtney says, "I've inquired without reply regarding the adherence of TX to uh WPCS, PHPCS, so coding standards." Yeah. >> Uh or other standards. I want to know just that much of the secret source. Uh and then she says, "What if we ensure the code it creates adheres to WUKG standards?" So we're now talking about accessibility as well. So yeah, so the floodgates are opening, aren't they? And as with all AI, the floodgates just opened and we just got delued with slop. This has the capacity to do exactly that, but not just like slop, but security problematic slop. I'm not minimizing any of that. Uh, Taco, and I just thought it was interesting that these capabilities were now going to be um available, not that they should be deployed necessarily. And then Taco's got one more piece just before we finish. Even if it does it today, Courtney, so he's replying to Courtney, no one's going to update that little block plugin. And so 10 years down the line, it's vulnerable uh to problems we don't know about today. >> Yeah. Yes. >> I mean to to to kind of lead on from what Taco has said is it it is also built with the WordPress of that day. So if the whatever you know let's say 6.8 86.9 is the WordPress version. The code that you know pulls something in from the block for example doesn't necessar is no guarantee to be present in 7 7.1 7.2 7.3 or something may change. So yeah, Taco makes a a really really good point there in that it's built for the WordPress to be used today. If it is to be used as a very very small, you know, like you said, a let's put some snow on it and then, you know, let's release a plugin that will produce low uh snow on your website and, you know, delete it after a month, then yeah, I think that, you know, that that is probably a really good. >> It's an interesting idea, isn't it? But I think Taco's probably got the right intuition where the best will in the world, nobody's going to delete it. It's like the media library. You know, how many images have you got in the media library that you knew at the point of the minute you'd uploaded it, you knew that you didn't need it, but you just can't be bothered to go back and delete it. So, it sits there on no post, no page, just consuming resources, but it's like I'll just leave it there. >> Um, so Taco point well. Um, and Courtney, thank you. Um, the output is in question. It's more the the technological miracle that I think is going on. And again, just Tammy will let you know about this. I am no proponent of AI. I I on the whole I'm fairly nervous about what it's doing to all of us, but I just thought that was kind of curious uh curious implementation. Any more on that or should we move on? But thank you for your commentary all of you about that. that every week there's one thing which gets the comments going and that week this week it was that one wasn't it. It's always AI at the minute. It's always AI. Uh so here as if Oh segue um here we go. So >> serendipitous. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Yeah, definitely. So the WordPress plug-in team um is rolling out automatic security scans for all plug-in updates. So this is on the repository. There's not much more to say than that really apart from to say that they all plugins that are now um getting updated updated um on WordPress.org are also getting the security scan with the automated scanning technology that they've got. So that not only means that when it's uploaded initially, it has to pass the tests. I'm guessing that it has to also maintain the the test uh the passing of those tests as it goes through its you know life cycle and what have you. Um, Amber Hines who from Equalized Digital, she said it'd be kind of interesting in the in the future to be able to see telemetry coming out the back of that so that it would be more transparent to the general public perhaps through things like badges or data displayed on plugins pages. So, in other words, be nice to see did it pass those tests, how well did it pass those tests, which bits did it fail and how quickly was it updated? Those kind of things. Yeah, the the the interesting thing there is um I know with the the FAIR project going on, you know, the acronym FAR um going on, Taco will no doubt be able to speak to to this and I know that Ree is very keen on it. Is that right, Reys? You're like you're fascinated by that project as well. Yeah. Um >> it'd be interesting to see uh what what what the alignment is between fair because obviously this is being done by.org or on the repository that they maintain. And as fair rolls out, oh, and there's Courtney in the comments as well. As fair rolls out, it'd be interesting to see if this is some sort of I don't know thing that they'll want to match with their own um system presumably the system that they that uh.org is using to check those plugins is open source and available. I don't know if it can be used on other mirrors of um or or any other repository. So yeah, >> I mean if if there is the plugin the PCP health check plugin is publicly available. So that I would assume is what they're using for this. >> Okay. >> Um so yeah, I I think that would potentially be used. This is going to be an interesting couple of weeks because you if dependent on how this is implemented and I apologize I don't know how this is implemented. I think it kind of talks about it that it if you upload an update to a plug-in, what happens then? Because next week or in two weeks 6.9 comes out >> and there's going to be a lot of plugins that currently are on the repository uh that would that were put on the repository before this security plug-in check plugin that you have to pass. >> Oh, I see. to, >> you know, to, you know, to to to go on the repository. >> They um there's a lot of plugins >> that are currently out there >> that are probably going to be updated within the next month just to kind of go, okay, we tested a 6.9, it works, but there's also we've discovered these security bugs >> because that's Yeah, that's really interesting. It's a bit like suddenly somebody turning around to me and saying, "You got your driving license back in the day, but you you actually do you know what? we've decided to do all the driving tests again. >> You got to pass the driving test again. And me going, "Oh, really? What?" >> Yeah. >> It's a bit like that, isn't it? So, yeah, that I hadn't even thought about that. That's fascinating. >> It's I mean, I don't know what I I think it just says at the moment, we're just going to run it. We're not going to do anything with it. Yeah, all it says in here regarding that, it says, "For now, the results are visible to the plugins team while monitoring how PCP behaves during updates and make and makes improvements." So, I don't know if anything's going to be communicated back to plug-in developers. Maybe they're just getting um huristics about what happens. And >> yeah, yeah, I don't know. I hadn't thought about that, but that's really interesting. Taco is back. Uh, the better solution would be if every plug-in owner would run this check on their plug-in before submitting it. Yeah, that makes sense. And that's fairly easy to do through GitHub actions. There you go. Um, wise advice. We're fast running out of time. >> Are there some perhaps some plug-in developers who game the system by uploading a plugin and then updating it with things that would not have passed the first inspection and >> Oh, yeah. You mean in the current setup? You mean the way that it is run at the back? >> Prior to this, right, when when they don't if they're not running any checks on updates, then you could, you know, submit your plug-in that meets all of the criteria and then update it to not meet the criteria. >> Yeah, we >> So, I think that this is going to put some checks and balances in there, too. >> Yeah, that's interesting because we've had whole plugins that just got completely upended. like somebody buys the plugin and then like you like 3 days later it's like okay it's uh it's now an LMS is it uh whereas before it just did this one thing um yeah that has happened that's definitely and so this may well mitigate that a little bit yeah >> yeah I for the record I think this is a good thing >> like this is a good thing I just I'm just trying to think of >> yeah I think so too I think so too um the because time's not really available to us anymore. I'll just quickly say so repository it's called WordPress plug-in team rolls out automatic security scans for all plug-in updates 30th of October. It's a little bit stale but I've missed a couple of these episodes and so that's why I'm mentioning it. Uh I'm just going to mention just because time really is running out. There is a what's new for developers article written by uh bigot powley hack with a whole I mean a ton of stuff uh in about all of the different bits and pieces that you can check if you're a developer with 6.9 features and so on. So, lots and lots of detail in there. What else did we have? Oh, this I'll probably roll over to next week because gosh, this was fascinating to me. Reddit. Uh, Woo Commerce is bringing some sort of connection um with Reddit. And I'm just going to drop this sentence in and that's all I'm going to say about it. Uh, over half of all on I'm not going to say it. Uh, over half of all online conversations related to purchasing decisions occur on Reddit. What it how is that even really? Okay. Apparently that's true. Um, and that's all we've got time for. I'm going to put that one in next week's show because I think that's really interesting, but we don't have time for it this week. Uh, okie dokie. Right, that's it. We've run out of time. I I'm normally I run over a little bit, but I've got an absolute hard stop today because I've got to go and do something uh in a few out. Yeah. Something nice. So, I'm quite looking forward to it. So, uh so I want to end this show as quickly as possible. No, I'm joking. Um so, it only remains for me to say firstly, thank you to the two guests. We've got our co-host, which is Michelle Fchett joining us today. Thank you very much. And we've also got Reese Wyn joining us today as well. That the show is all well and good, but it's way better uh when people comment and there's been quite a lot of commentary today. So, I really appreciate that. Marcus Bernett's just joined us and yeah, we maybe call this episode goodbye Marcus or something like that. But, um appreciate you commenting. Appreciate you joining us. We should be back this time next week for another this week in WordPress. So, Ree Michelle, thank you very much. We'll see you next time. Thank you. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye., YouTube Video bE5ar3qd6MA, YouTube, 01kabxpkk149kp8390514wgzxy.