#156 – Derek Ashauer on Analytics Options and Privacy Challenges  ## Metadata - Author: [[WP Tavern]] - Full Title: #156 – Derek Ashauer on Analytics Options and Privacy Challenges - Category: #podcasts - URL: https://share.snipd.com/episode/3be70e42-c9f1-47c2-b179-9823eb8d1b17 ## Document Notes ## Highlights - **Analytics Evolution** - Early websites lacked analytics, only basic server logs existed. - Modern analytics evolved quickly, leveraging technology for sophisticated data gathering, exemplified by Google Analytics. Transcript: Nathan Wrigley I feel that if you went to a website, there wasn't even the thought that there was any kind of analytics. Maybe there was some server log somewhere that was recording that, okay, we served up a page, but that was about it. And then at some point, analytics software came along and very quickly started to leverage all of the existing technologies and became really, really sophisticated ever so quickly. You would copy and paste a code, and it was typically google i think that dominated the arena right from the outset they offered a free service google analytics you could copy and paste One line of code there was no barrier to entry to that technology and it would give you all sorts of fascinating information really quickly i think everybody was happy with that status Quo but in the more recent past, let's say decade or so, but definitely it seems to be ramping up at the moment. There seems to be concerns about who gets the data. Why is this data necessary? Is this data consumable by, I don't know, an American company looking at a European who's browsing on a particular website and things like that? With all of this, just give us your overarching opinion on it, and then we can go from there. What's the state of play at the moment with analytics? Where are we? The year 2025 at the moment, do you have any sort of overarching insight into where analytics, in air quotes, is at the moment? Derek Ashauer Yeah, it's a lot harder because of the European privacy laws for the analytics platforms to get the data that marketers and other people have been used to for a long time. Where people came from, you used to be able to get like exactly what search terms people were looking at and landed on your site and what they did. You know, if someone searched Fort Collins landscaper, local landscape company could see that that's exactly what they searched and then what that user did on their website from that Search term. And that's just kind of gone. That deep level of data is unfortunately not possible anymore to follow those type of European laws and privacy restrictions and things like that. So there's a lot of people who are struggling to get the data that they were used to. ([Time 0:05:33](https://share.snipd.com/snip/2fb2af1d-27dd-4f07-9d43-aa1a022efbbd)) - **Fingerprinting** - Derek Ashauer uses "fingerprinting" to describe modern analytics user identification, not cookie-based tracking. - Platforms check specific user elements each page load, avoiding cookies. Transcript: Nathan Wrigley Yeah. You've got a very open mind to all of that, haven't you? And obviously, you're digging into this and your business is kind of largely tied up to that. So, very understandable position to have. You mentioned there several platforms and you rattled them off one after another, Fathom and others. So, a lot of these will be unfamiliar, I think, to this audience. What is the proposition? So it sounds like many of them are quite new. What is it that they bring to the table? And are these SaaS-based products, or are in some cases a WordPress plugin, or something that you can install on your own hardware? What's going on there? Just rattle off those names again, and maybe just give us the lowdown on what they do, and how they're getting into the market and competing against giants like Google? Yeah. Derek Ashauer So there's definitely some great new options. And a lot of the initial ones were SaaS based. So there's ones, like I said, Plausible, Fathom, User Maven. Perch is another great one that I really enjoy. My plugin, Conversion Bridge, integrates with like 12 different analytics platforms. So there's tons of them. And there's still many more that I have on my list to do. So there's lots of alternatives, which there weren't any before until Google analytics four kind of came out and people were like, we don't like GA four. And that opened the door for a lot of platforms. But to get back to your question, yeah, one of the differences that they offer is they do what's called cookie list tracking. So that's one of the big things that the privacy laws in Europe were like, you around cookies and tracking the cross website so that the user, they go to landscaper website. Then they go, you know, I'm going to go to Home Depot and I'm going to look for my own lawnmower. And now I'm going to price check against Lowe's and all these different things. And Google and I could see where they were going and all these different places or Facebook ads could track all these different websites that they went to and gauge this type of person And who they are and what they're shopping for and things like that. So trying to crack down on that. Well, these alternative platforms do it without cookies. They have a way, a method without getting too technical of just basically fingerprinting the user and know for that one session when they're on your website, what they're doing, but Then it stops there. It doesn't go to all the other websites and give your entire four hours you're online and all the different websites that you're browsing to a company to let them know what you're doing Everywhere. So that's kind of their main offering. And they are SaaS. You know, they're just like Google Analytics, but they do cost. So that's they can be affordable. They're anywhere. I think there's some that are like six dollars, seven dollars a month for what a basic blog would ever need up to fifty dollars to or even a hundred dollars a month, depending on the amount Of traffic, which is hard to reconcile for a lot of people who were used to free Google analytics. So it's hard to make that leap. And you're going, wait, I could do Google Linux for free. And there's some countries and even like a state or two in the U S that have some laws where it's like, what's the setup in that? There might be law violations. Simply by using Google Analytics, you could be violating some of those things in a couple countries. But there are some setups you can do to try and make it work with European privacy laws and stuff. Take some extra work. But it's a challenge. Is it worth it? We've been so used to for 20 years for having free analytics to then now suddenly switch and pay for analytics can be hard for some site owners. Or as if you're an agency doing that to convince your clients like, well, we should actually start paying for this. And because you get 200,000 visits a month, it's going to cost you $100 a month. Or I can use the free version. ([Time 0:10:21](https://share.snipd.com/snip/e72869c0-6409-4c53-bbce-0f031ccd14e1)) - **Privacy-Focused Analytics** - Modern analytics platforms prioritize privacy, offering cookieless tracking. - This is their main selling point, especially in Europe, differentiating them from traditional analytics. Transcript: Nathan Wrigley One website. Yeah. Is the promise of these platforms though, that they are different or are they trying without cookies to get back to the point where cookies were? In other words, a cookie, until it was cleared out, could literally follow you everywhere. You know, it would know which website you'd been to and could last for a long, long time and all of those concerns. Is the intention of these other analytics platforms to sort of step away from that and say, okay, we're going to track you on this one domain. So if you've got example.com as your domain and it's an e-commerce store, whilst you're there, our platform will keep an eye on you and we'll learn if you have gone through a bunch of pages And whether you've converted and bought a thing or not. But once you step away from that domain, that's it. We're done with you. Or do you get the intention that they are somehow, just humans always figure out a way, right? If we give them enough time, they'll figure out a way. Derek Ashauer Is the intention for these other platforms, do you perceive that they would like to get to the point where cookies were? No, their number one selling point, I think if you went to the homepage of every single one of them is they do privacy first analytics is like the banner thing. That's what they're offering. And that's why it's so much bigger in Europe than it is here in the US and North America and stuff like that. But yeah, that's their main thing. Their privacy-focused analytics, Google Analytics alternatives that are privacy-focused is their main draw. I think someone reminded me of Katie Keith from Barn Tush. She reminded me of the story from Fathom. They specifically sent Google Analytics a cake to thank them for being so bad at what they do that they allowed them to create a whole industry as an alternative to them. Stuff like that. So I think they're trying to do the privacy focused stuff and then backfill in the features to give people as much data as they possibly can that they were used to in Google Analytics. ([Time 0:16:50](https://share.snipd.com/snip/c09524b1-07dd-401c-8d82-94a255c1beb8)) - **Personalized Ads** - Derek Ashauer accepts all cookies and appreciates personalized ads. - He finds value in targeted recommendations for gifts, showcasing a differing perspective on data privacy. Transcript: Nathan Wrigley You said earlier, and we'll just touch on this briefly, you said earlier that the implication of what you said, and you may not have meant this, but I'll say it as if you're saying it, and Then you can criticize whatever I say. It sounds like if you could rewind the clock and get rid of the European legislation and what have you, you would do that, and you'd be happy with that position. You're okay with being tracked and all bets are off. Derek Ashauer So firstly, let's address that. Would you be okay with all of that? I think there's got to be a balance between the two. I get that there's, you know, for me, it's a thing. I don't care if you know all the different things of where I went. You know, you see those futuristic movies where it's individualized ads on video screens. And I'm like, that's actually kind of cool. It helps give me gifts, ideas for my wife, stuff like that, because I'm a terrible gift giver. So yeah, recommend me some products. I wouldn't have thought to do that. I've bought things off of ads I've seen on Facebook or Twitter, things like that, because I was like, that's a great gift for my dad. I never would have purposely found that if I hadn't been shown that ad because for whatever reason. ([Time 0:18:39](https://share.snipd.com/snip/471e74a6-8527-4747-b41e-1978b8155154)) - **Browser-Level Cookie Management** - Cookie banners should be handled at the browser level, simplifying compliance. - Browser settings could dictate cookie acceptance, eliminating website-specific banners. Transcript: Nathan Wrigley I mean, I don't know how many hours humanity waste every day projecting cookie banners. I mean, yeah, the cookie banners is a whole other thing. Derek Ashauer In my opinion, it should be, if you're going to do it, it should be in the browser. There should be a setting in the browser and the analytics code snippet that you have obeys the browser setting so that there's not, there should be no need for independent, every single Website owner to do their own remediation of, you know, through cookie banners of doing all this kind of stuff. It's bonkers to me when every single website, every single website needs to follow this, then put it at the browser level. You can just configure in your browser in Chrome, say, I want to accept marketing cookies and I want to not accept these types of cookies or whatever, and then call it done. And every website you go to then just includes Google Analytics, includes whatever thing. It just can look at the browser settings and follow that and you're done. And it saves everyone thousands of dollars, hours of headache and all this kind of stuff. ([Time 0:27:52](https://share.snipd.com/snip/eefe34a1-732f-4ba8-8b29-14ac928d3c6b)) - **Conversion Bridge Functionality** - Conversion Bridge simplifies conversion tracking, integrating various plugins. - It eliminates coding, allowing one-click conversion tracking setup for forms, purchases, and more. Transcript: Derek Ashauer Even they would be great with those ones. So your plugin, which is called Conversion Bridge, what does it do? Nathan Wrigley It feels from the outside as if it's almost like a Zapier for analytics meets website, if you know what I mean. You bind your website to the analytics platform and then you can give it, I don't know, if this, then that kind of functionality to figure out, okay, what are the conversions? And also it just feels like you're stripping out the technical burden of learning those platforms. Is that basically what it's doing or have I missed the target? Derek Ashauer That's pretty close. The idea is when I was building sites for clients, I didn't set up any conversion tracking for a lot of them. One, because in just the cost, because you go by Gravity Forms, well, this site, we're going to use WS Form. Well, this site, we're going to use Ninja Forms or this site, we're using WooCommerce. This other one, we're going to use this other, you know, there's so many different ways that you could do a form, do a purchase. Page builders, what button, how do I add a click tracking? Like every time someone clicks on the buy now button on my homepage and goes to that. So we want to really track all this kind of stuff. It was a challenge of how did you add that to your WordPress site? And so oftentimes it just didn't happen because it was such a pain in the butt to do it. So what Conversion Bridge tries to do is makes it easy to add the analytics tracking codes. A lot of people just cut and paste it into the header footer code snippets type plugins and all this kind of stuff. That is a way to do it. It's not really the ideal way, but it does allow you to quickly and easily add one of, I think I have 12 different analytics platforms, whether it's Google Analytics, Fathom, all that Kind of stuff, toggle, copy and paste. You're just like little ID number. And then the analytics code has been added to the site where it needs to make sure it does it for the right users. Like I don't want to track admin users. Let's make sure we don't track admin users, stuff like that. But the real benefit is, is the conversion tracking. So say you have a form you're using and it's just a simple, yes, add conversion tracking. Done. That's all I had to do. Click a toggle. I didn't have to think about code snippets. How do I do it? Researching the form plugin. Where does it need to get output? When does it need to get output? All this kind of stuff. It just was a pain in the butt. And then the real benefit for agencies is that regardless of what site they're doing, whether they're using Bricks Builder or Beaver Builder, using WS Form, Gravity Forms, it's all One plugin that works for any site that you would need because it integrates with 50 plus different WordPress plugins to just have one click toggle conversion tracking. And websites really need conversion tracking. They need to know what users are doing on their site. And I think it's a huge value that especially professional site builders could add to their plugin stack that they put on every client site to just, oh, all I have to do is copy paste the Little ID number from Fathom. And then I just need to check one little box in WS form. And suddenly I have not only analytics on the site, but I'm also tracking every single form submission. And we can see where they're coming from and which ones generate the most contract form leads on this website that is for a landscaper to fill out forms and get lead quotes. And now I can tell my client these resources, whether it's this external blog that link to us, oh my God, we got mentioned in this blog. And now all of a sudden they're generating 50 leads a month from us. We need to do more outreach to all these blogs and to really understand where your leads are coming from. ([Time 0:34:12](https://share.snipd.com/snip/e364b8ef-98ec-472a-aadf-ed8df5cf7a84)) - **Conversion Tracking Examples** - Track various website actions as conversions, like form submissions and button clicks. - This data helps understand user behavior and optimize website effectiveness. Transcript: Derek Ashauer It's a huge value to add to client sites. I have a couple of questions following on from that. Nathan Wrigley The first one is, have you got any examples, like curious examples, maybe unexpected examples? Because everybody gets that, okay, I want to convert. I want to track that a person arrived at the website, looked at this product and then ended up buying it. Brilliant. But are there any quirky ones that people have reached out to you that they've used and you thought, oh gosh, I never imagined people would want to track that conversion. Derek Ashauer Not yet. It is pretty straightforward. You know, the things that you need to track, form submissions, email newsletter signups are a good one i mean purchases stuff like that what buttons on your page you know maybe you have A home page and you want to know which button on that page actually got them to go to the buy now so maybe you have one in the main banner maybe you have one near the faq section maybe you have One near the testimonials which one actually got people to actually go to that page so button tracking, link tracking is good ones. Nathan Wrigley Yeah, there's not too many surprises in that regard. And then the other one is about the plugins that you work with. So, and again, it sounds like your UVP really is that we've looked at how their plugin works, how the code works, and you just tick the button. You say, I've got WS form, I've got gravity forms or whatever it may be. Now it's just done that's part of the deal you're buying it so that you don't have to do any coding yeah because that's you know what everyone wants these days there's no code and don't Derek Ashauer Even want to even cutting and pasting code snippets before it was a lot of plugins were like add this you had to use this hook and then add this code i mean they provided this snippet and Then you had to kind of customize it and all this kind of stuff it's not just toggle and it's done you know like WooCommerce, it'll send all the detailed data about the purchase, what product They purchased, how much it costs, what the order total was. So you can get all that good data in there so you can do some advanced reporting in Google Analytics or even plausible and some other person, stuff like that. So these alternatives you can do as well. ([Time 0:37:26](https://share.snipd.com/snip/4dfd3bc4-c89d-4fd6-89f6-2626be8db5b1))