110: The Big Boy Plan  ## Metadata - Author: [[Mostly Technical]] - Full Title: 110: The Big Boy Plan - Category: #podcasts - URL: https://share.snipd.com/episode/bc109ed1-0402-4957-93cc-8baa65eb0f44 ## Document Notes ## Highlights - **AI Lowers The Build Bar** - AI drastically lowers the activation barrier so bespoke, purpose-built tools can be created in minutes instead of weeks.\n- That lets creators improve existing products rapidly rather than chase novel but dubious new apps. Transcript: Ian Landsman Now, but like the cost benefit hasn't always been there and sometimes i've just ignored that anyway to my own detriment but now the uh the the calculus is extremely different on what Makes sense to build out so we can use a concrete example um i tweeted this week that i um built out like a tool for my blog to like selectively edit an image to remove part of the background, But not the entirety of the background, right? I wanted a little bit of artistic control and be able to like create this effect that I am going for. What the effect is, is not terribly relevant, but I was trying to create an image with a certain effect. And I could have taken the image out of my blog's backend and put it into Photoshop, which I know how to use, despite what people on Twitter were telling me. I don't know. I've been using Photoshop since I was like nine or 10. I told somebody it was since I was 12, but then I later calculated it. And I remember the Women's World Cup in 1999. I remember creating like cool desktop backgrounds of the U.S. Women's team because I was like so pumped that we were so good. And that in 1999, i was 10 and i already knew how to use photoshop when i was 10 so to all the all the random twitter haters that definitely listen to our podcast you know they they definitely Are here i know how to use photoshop but here's the thing um i'm already in you know the back end admin area i already have the photo i'm writing the article and I want to just tweak the photo For the purposes of OG images only, right? So instead of downloading, opening Photoshop, saving it as a PNG, re-uploading it back into this area, I got to build an upload, you know, widget anyway. I just walked over to Claude and was like, hey, here's what I'm trying to do. I need basically like a JavaScript canvas and this kind of brush where I can do this kind of thing. And it took about 30 minutes of back and forth and I was done. And it like it works exactly like I need it to work. It's not it's not a Photoshop replacement. I'm not pretending that it is a Photoshop replacement. But what it does do is it puts the tool that I need with no extra things in the context in which I need it. Right. And I think the context is probably a big a big deal. Um, and so after having done that, I just felt like, oh, the bar for building things generally, but tools specifically is so much lower now because I can literally do it in 30 minutes and Not, you know, pretend that I can do it in 30 minutes. It takes a week and a half. You know, that's what it used to be. ([Time 0:02:29](https://share.snipd.com/snip/c961c647-504b-42f2-afd4-fded82c26ce3)) - **Improve, Don't Just Ship New Apps** - The revolutionary value of AI is speeding upkeep and improvement of existing products, not just launching new shiny apps.\n- Fixing many small paper-cuts in a product compounds into far greater value than a generic chat UI. Transcript: Aaron Francis It's insane. Everybody's like, look, I'm building a new thing. I'm building a new thing. I'm building a new thing. Right. It's like, we can build so much faster. We can build so much faster, new product, new whatever. Right. And I think that's like almost like the totally wrong take. It's like the revolution is what you did, which is like, I can now maintain the thing I have so much more quickly and easily. Or I can make improvements to the thing. I already have this good idea. The good idea exists. Now I'm just using Claude to let me improve it in 30 minutes instead of two weeks or more likely never because you just would never get around to doing it. Whatever. Never. All that kind of stuff. That's where like the revolution is because you already know you having a blog is a good idea in your case, right? Like this is how you sell things, how people learn about you. This all makes total sense. That's not in question. The only thing in question is how good can you make this thing you already know is a good idea. And now this is going to really help you make it good, faster, better. Ian Landsman Yes, I am not. I think that's a I think that's a salient point. I'm not creating like a like a big white screen that says chat with AI. Like that's what that's the apparently the only idea that anyone has ever had when it comes to building with AI is what if we add a chat box? It's like, sure. But instead, what if, you know, you have a system or a process or something that is functional that has 50 paper cuts that could save you 10 minutes to an hour a week or a day? And then it's fixed forever, right? And so I think based on like, based on most of the Twitter hype, it is like, let's build something completely new with dubious usefulness. And I think what people maybe what people was what smarter people are focusing on, or what people should be focusing on is how do I improve my workflow? Not necessarily like my development workflow, but like my production. Like how do I make it easier for me to be a human producing good things on the internet using AI? So let's build, let's use AI, which is non-deterministic, fuzzy, wonky, kind of weird, getting better all the time. ([Time 0:07:15](https://share.snipd.com/snip/6839e823-806b-4497-9541-f6e41f165bf8)) - **Balance Product Work With Distribution** - Spend as much time on distribution and selling as you spend on coding your product.\n- Use AI to accelerate business tasks (audience, ads, viral hooks) as much as development work. Transcript: Aaron Francis That's not the problem. The problem is you build the thing. It works. And then you have no idea how to sell it. You have no market to sell it into. So it's a beautiful thing that just sits there and has zero to five customers because you never figured out how to sell it. And so AI is not fixing that problem for you either. So like this is the thing. It like people are so distracted by how it's like, it's the drug juice, right? Of like, I only want to code and now I can only code even faster. And it's so exciting. And my revision becomes reality so much quicker, but nobody knows about it and you're still not able to sell it, which is the problem. So, you know, I don't know. So what do they do, business dad? What's the plan? First of all, just in general, I feel like those skills are becoming even more valuable. Like if you are the kind of person who has some idea about how to go about selling something and that sort of thing, that's even more valuable now. Because now there's all these people building all these products. Nobody knows how to sell anything.'s that's great if you already have the skills if you don't yeah you've got to sit down with claude right and come up with an actual business plan spend The same amount of time you spend coding going back and forth with claude on how you're going to actually create viral elements to your product or how are you going to actually come figure Out google adwords to like run ads or whatever the case is how How are you going to build an audience on social media to push the thing you want to do? Whatever it is, like you should be putting almost as much time into that as to the coding. Because now you have more time. In theory, you have more time than you did before. In theory. Because now when you fire off Claude to go work for 15 minutes, you could do something business-y for those 15 minutes and figure out how the hell you're going to sell this thing you're Building. So yeah, I don't know. I don't have the total answer for a while. ([Time 0:11:12](https://share.snipd.com/snip/5a8cf13e-dac3-41b7-9113-41932e2d3b03)) - **Alcove Leverages Adjacent Audiences** - John O'Nolan built Alcove as a content hub leveraging Ghost and his existing audience.\n- He can convert newsletter, RSS, YouTube and podcasts into a unified newsreader with AI summarization. Transcript: Aaron Francis Yeah. So alcove.news, right, is his thing. Well, so there's two things. First of all, he's incredibly successful, so it doesn't really matter what he's doing. Like, just on the base level, right? He wants to do this because he wants to do it. Whether it's a good idea or not, and whether it's going to make money or not, I think he thinks it will, but it also doesn't matter, so it's a little different for him. But I think he's already going to be playing in a world he has a huge advantage in, right? Like, he runs, owns Ghost, right? Which is a big blogging platform, and now he's building an RSS reader. Well, a ton of crossover there right like he can leverage all these blog uh users he has into his news reader he could have direct connections between ghost and alcove he could do all kinds Of stuff there with this huge audience he has with a huge customer base he has this is a related product to his other thing which i think is very smart. So yeah, so like that's the same kind of thing. If you're a bootstrapper, it's like if you're known for X, you should probably build something around X, right? And not build something way off, totally unrelated, because you don't have as much leverage there as you do. So yeah, I think John and Nolan's right on it. And yeah, and what he's building is exactly what I want, which is even better, because it's not just an RSS reader. It takes your newsletters, which some of the other ones do, but it does nobody else does, which is it takes your YouTube feed, which is what I really want so I can keep track of certain YouTube Feeds. I don't necessarily want to watch all the time, but it's there. You know, he's very AI forward, so I assume he'll have some, you know, summarization capabilities at some point, if not day one, some things like that. ([Time 0:16:03](https://share.snipd.com/snip/8b94ec43-7bb9-4bf4-a53e-92244553da80)) - **Use AI To Generate Reference UI** - Design in a visual AI tool (Gemini or V0), export the single-page HTML, then paste it into your coding assistant as a reference.\n- Iterate section-by-section with Claude to implement the design in your stack. Transcript: Ian Landsman And that's to use, what is it? Is it app. Yeah. No, gemini.google slash app. So one of the problems with these things is everything is named the same thing. It's like you use Gemini. Oh, you mean Gemini CLI? You mean Gemini and anti-gravity? You mean so Gemini dot Google dot com slash app. That's like the normie chat interface. Your tip was go there, turn on the canvas tool. This is what I was missing. I was chatting with it. It was like some code. Sure, you can do that. I'm like, no, do it. Yeah, do it. So turn on the canvas tool, which is not what I would expect, you know, the code thing to be named, but neither here nor there and start designing with the normie chat interface with the Canvas tool on start doing like your design pass over there because it's completely isolated. It's like, you can click this little button to highlight certain parts of the page and the canvas and be like, Hey, change this thing. And it like has really tight context about what, what you're talking about. Um, and then you can literally download it as a one page HTML document. It like does, you know, tailwind CDN, it does react from whatever, some CDN or something. So it's one page. And then you throw that into your project. And then you tell Claude, I've created a reference. I've created a reference design. It's at, you know, reference.html. Go over there, at the structure don't worry about the implementation look at all of the structure and that is what we're going to use for our reference and Claude's like okay cool I can Do that um that's just the best that was that was a huge boost that's ([Time 0:27:25](https://share.snipd.com/snip/0db7dd02-0335-4456-ac48-fda41340f662)) - **Automate Large-Scale Refactors With AI** - Create project design and code guidelines with AI, then run automated passes to apply them across the repo.\n- Use the model to batch-update colors, testing frameworks, and consistent patterns project-wide. Transcript: Aaron Francis Yeah, that's been pretty good. That's pretty cool now. I also built this humongous document of all like information about Help Spot. So like basically from our current site, our other site, our documentation, whatever, this giant file. And then it was really huge. And I had it like do like kind of a summarization, but holding on to like the key stuff. And then the new website is like all these section blocks. And so now, like I just tried this the other day for the first time, I was able to build a page like very nicely of like, here's the content. This is what I want the page to be about. Use the existing sections we have. And or if there's nothing left, there's not an exact pre-existing one, like you can use our components to build a new section that's appropriate. Blah, blah, blah. Came up with a plan. Did a few tweaks. Boom, out popped a new page. Fantastic. Fantastic. Ian Landsman That is, that's one thing I've been doing a lot is that pattern of get to a place where I'm happy. Ask the model. Generate guidelines based on this thing. And then it like, you're functionally as much as one can with these things. You're locking it in. Right? So you're saying like, this design is great. I don't, I want to do this moving forward. Write a design guideline, put it in your CloudMD saying, this is how we design things in this project. And then when you're like, hey, I need a about us page. It's like, it's going to be 80, 90% right without you having to like, go back to Gemini design and about us page because you have those guidelines there. I feel like I'm constantly doing like update guidelines, comb through the whole project to adhere to guidelines. So I like come up with a new, oh, this is a good way to handle whatever. Add this to the guidelines. Then uh i will run this custom slash command that i have called slash guidelines and when i run slash guidelines it reads all the guidelines and then it looks through it looks through The project to make sure like are we adhering to the guidelines and i feel like um that's a that's a it's a strange like i feel like this is programming differently, where I'm doing more Entire code base suites than I have ever done before, where it's like, all right, you know, let's change it to this color system, or like, let's use these radix colors or whatever. Add this to the guidelines. Great. We're using radix sand or whatever. Thanks, Steve, for telling me about radix sand. It's a great color system. Now, go through the whole project and update the color scheme. Great. All right, we're using we're going to change this from PHP unit to pest. Great. Let's write some guidelines about pest. Now just go fix everything. ([Time 0:33:12](https://share.snipd.com/snip/a90e7d11-08c8-4a21-bc73-3a1761a5b7eb)) - **Platform Integration Beats Standalone Tools** - Big platform AIs (Google, Apple) embed where your data already lives, making them the default consumer touchpoint.\n- Specialized models (Claude, Gemini, AMP) still win for heavy coding or enterprise scenarios. Transcript: Ian Landsman Is the most anti old manuals of cloud and i never expected that from you to have ian landsman say i want to use Gemini in my email. I love the Gemini button in the browser. I'm like, what show am I on? This is crazy. I know you do, but this one doesn't make sense to me. You're like, I love the Gemini button in the browser. I expected you to be like, why are you putting the Gemini button in my browser? I don't want the AI everywhere. Aaron Francis Get out of here with the Gemini button. That's crazy. That stuff i don't care about the privacy give me the ai everywhere yeah give me the ai oh no i don't care about that um because here's the thing like all good developer business people I'm super lazy and i just want stuff done for me sure and i don't want to have to do it right so like same yeah i love the ai everywhere give me the ai everywhere um i'm actually like i don't Know chat gbt i feel like they're in a little bit of a weird spot oh i'm like i still use it as like you like the mac app but gemini's coming out with a mac app um i don't know it's weird like it's Like you see as it infiltrates everything it's like you don't know anything about me. And you're not, other than being AI, I don't really have any reason to interact with you. And now, yeah, so it's like, well, Google knows a lot about me and like all my work email, my personal email, all that stuff's like, and my calendars and all that stuff's in Google. So that's going to make sense to use Google for that. And then maybe you bounce back and forth on whatever the best coding one is, which right now is clawed, both because the model is good, but also as we discussed, there's just like the software Is better and those things. It's like, I don't know where OpenAI fits into that for me. I mean, the APIs are still useful probably for like building products on top of or whatever. I don't think they're going out of business or anything like that. But yeah, I don't know. I don't know. It's pre-buying a trillion dollars in data center stuff But I don't know if they're going to need all that. Ian Landsman I know. And I'm like, ah, ChatGPT, I don't really like it that much. They're spending more money than they have ever had times like 100. And I'm already over them. And I don't know. I don't know. I think ChatGPT still wins with Norm It is the leading there. I think like offline people like our, you know, our nanny and our friends who aren't, you know, tech people, they talk about chat all the time. The most online brain thing I've ever seen is somebody was like, when, when people say chat, they're talking about Twitch chat or like stream chat. I'm like, no, no, no, no. Talking about chat gpt when normal people say i i asked chat or chat do we it's like they're talking about chat gpt um so i think they're still winning with consumers so here's the thing Aaron Francis I had some very interesting interactions that won at thanksgiving but it's like first of it's like windows i think of it like windows way back in the day Windows. Everybody stole Word and everything like that from work, right? Because it's like, well, I got Word at work. I'm not going to buy Word at home, right? So like everybody's going to have some kind of an advanced AI at work. So if I need to do like advanced stuff or something harder, I'm going to have something I can just throw some stuff in and like have it churn away on it, right? And then for just your day in day out hey i got a weird bump hey like whatever like i'm just asking how do i got a weird bump how do i make a pumpkin pie right like whatever whatever normal ai Stuff that is like 100 of what chat gpt chats are like i got a weird bump and how do i make a pumpkin pie? Ian Landsman For sure. I'm not even kidding. Yes. Aaron Francis Yes. My aunt was like, you know, every time I have a question, I just type in the Google box and it just gives me the answer. Like she's not even thinking about really as AI. It's just like Google now gives answers in long form and I just look at it right there. You're not wrong. Ian Landsman Yeah. Aaron Francis I feel like they got in, they got their stuff straight in time that like people didn't go totally away from google yet and now it's like well yeah i just still use google and it gives me a Good ai answer and that's good enough for most people it's totally free you just get it every search and so i know between like you have work for some advanced stuff you got google just Giving it free it's a commodity. The actual stuff is already kind of a commodity. It's so cheap, right? We're all paying nothing for it, even as it is. So it's going to be just basically free everywhere. And it's like, then where do I'm going to chat? Or I'm going to be in my Facebook Messenger. I'm going to be in, I'm sure Apple will have something. I can just ask the Apple AI at some point, right? Maybe if they ever get around to it. But like, I'm just going to have all these AI agents from the big companies that already know all the stuff about me. It's all going to be integrated. I'm just going to use that. And why am I going to go over to ChatGPT? ([Time 0:38:44](https://share.snipd.com/snip/c45215d9-2cb9-4b04-a82d-a8504578e919)) - **Harden Workflows Around AI Code Edits** - Improve commit hygiene: test, lint, and small commits when using AI to modify code.\n- Add agent checks for PRs to validate standards, security, and requested behavior. Transcript: Ian Landsman Find that Gemini goes off the rails sometimes. You're like, hey, hey, do this. And it's like, great, I did that. And I also touch these eight files. I'm like, why? Why did you do that? Then you got to really be watching so yeah i don't know but as long as as long as you like commit anytime you're happy that that's not really that much of a problem because you can just look At it and be like well you have to up and just reset it close the session and start over um so i do find that my like uh hygiene habits have had to improve a lot around like testing and linting And style guides and commits and workflows on GitHub. ([Time 0:45:42](https://share.snipd.com/snip/6a69a4da-101a-4c0d-b331-85cf4945444a)) - **Unprepared Developers Lose Jobs** - Primeagen reacted to a job-seeker video showing common hiring mistakes and echoed Aaron's advice.\n- The recurring problem: candidates code but don't sell themselves or follow basic application expectations. Transcript: Aaron Francis Right. Okay. And me and prime are 100% on the same page. Like literally every piece of advice he had for this kid was exactly the same as me. Strange bedfellows. You and the primogen. The kid is just like, he's like, you know, he's blasting out resumes and he's not getting any calls or he's not making a front interview process. And it's like that not going to work. This is a hobby horse of yours. And Prime also brought up an amazing point of like, yeah, people are so trained from two or three years ago when like, if you had ever done any development, you know, we will just hire you And we'll figure it out. Right. Like those days are probably gone forever. And it wasn't like that before. It's not going to be like that after. That was a little special time for a couple of years there. That time's over. And now you're going to have to hustle. You're going to have to do like, you know, one of the things he says, like, I never write cover letters or I rarely write cover letters because I know they're not going to call me back. But it's like, yes, that's why they're not going to call you back. Because like, you got to do the cover letter. You got to sell me on why I should call you back. You know, he doesn't follow up. He doesn't, you know, all the things that like you have to do. He's not networking and making connections, blah, blah, blah. Like trying to get in the back door some places. Like all the things like that you have to do. You got to hustle. If you want to be out there getting the good jobs, you got to hustle. So you got to play the game. You game. Ian Landsman Unfortunately, you can hate the game. Aaron Francis The game is unfair. You got to play the game. I would acknowledge that. There's lots of things unfair about the game yep and completely on both sides it's kind of unfair because now every job people you know 500 people applied every job so like on the employer End it's tricky it's like how do i find a needle in the haystack and now i'm going to be ruthless and people don't cover letters they just automatically get a no even though that's unfortunate. And that's maybe you think it's not fair, but I'm a real person reading it. Ian Landsman And so do you want to be mad or do you want to win? That's the question you have to ask yourself. If you want to be mad, you can just be mad and say, I'm not going to follow your rules. If you want to win, you can just follow the rules. Aaron Francis And maybe, you know what, and beyond just a little bit so we've been hiring the support role support engineer and like the number of people who will do like obviously so many people don't Even do the bare minimum you ask and then so it's just easy and then no almost nobody goes above the bare minimum you ask and it's like you could just do anything above the bare minimum and You just stand out the number of people we gave an interview to who like weren't even really the best fit we probably shouldn't have even done the interview but like they made a custom Page for us or whatever and like they did something a little more bespoke they referenced stuff that they actually knew about us and took the time to research or whatever and it's like So they got a shot like even though i knew some of them maybe wouldn't have made it it's like they got a shot and if they had been awesome they would have got the job you know i mean like you Ian Landsman Get the chance to get in front of us and do that and this is ah this is the flip side they were not right the best candidates yes and they got a shot who were better candidates yeah that's the Good thing that's the good side of this unfair game is these people, probably the best candidates were like, F the system. I'm just going to fire something over the wall. And you didn't even look at it. That sucks. Wow, that's too bad. But these people who maybe don't even qualify for the job, they got to get on the phone with a human because the system is unfair and they played the game. Like that's the good, that's, that is the upside of the system is unfair is it is visible. Like it's very transparent. Like the rules exist. You just look at them and be like, Oh, well I don't belong in this job, but I bet I could wizzle my way in if I just like cared a little bit. ([Time 0:59:15](https://share.snipd.com/snip/1a19213a-f452-472d-bc69-3c462dcde69c)) - **Stand Out By Doing Extra Work** - Do the small extras other applicants skip: tailored pages, researched references, and follow-ups to stand out.\n- Playing the application 'game' strategically wins interviews even if the system feels unfair. Transcript: Aaron Francis Where to go? You played the game. You should be asking yourself, is this the exact same thing everybody else is doing? And if the answer is yes, then you need to figure out how to do something else above and beyond it or whatever it is to like make yourself stand. Everybody, every hiring manager is looking for anything that makes somebody stand out from the total generic resume that everybody's resume is. Just got to give yourself that little edge. So, yeah. So it was fascinating. I definitely highly recommend checking out this on YouTube, on the Prime News channel. ([Time 1:02:50](https://share.snipd.com/snip/975bb278-f0b2-4698-a342-63af1f468f86)) - **Make Video + Docs Your Reference Hub** - Combine authoritative videos with searchable documentation to become the go-to reference.\n- Use AI to surface your videos and docs as canonical answers for common questions. Transcript: Ian Landsman Database school update. We've got Advent of SQL coming. So got some videos to record, some playgrounds to build. Yeah, feedback has continued to be positive. I've got a couple of what's new in Postgres 18 cooking right now. So the content treadmill is alive. If I can pull myself away from, you know, the AI grid that I have inhabited, that'll get out there it sucked me in i'm a part of the machine but now i continue to feel very at ease with that Whole property i'm like this is good this is what i was hoping for this is what i wanted yeah just now i'm producing content and doing i do need to i do need to come up with a cohesive strategy For the database school youtube channel um because that's going to be my main, probably, top of funnel for people that don't know me. And I haven't put enough thought into that yet to come up with, like, what exactly are some, you know, series or types of videos that I can be producing over there? So I need to put some dedicated hours into thinking that because that will be the top of funnel. ([Time 1:03:22](https://share.snipd.com/snip/cff35fda-d6ed-46db-bda9-82df90ced976)) - **From Regional Goalie To College Life** - Ian played elite youth soccer as a goalkeeper and reached regional ODP teams, nearly touching national selection.\n- He quit before college to avoid professional pressure and switched to a normal college life. Transcript: Aaron Francis We didn't know you were a big-wig goalie! Ian Landsman That's crazy! I was a wig. Soccer was my entire life. It wasn't my whole life from five, but I was playing from an early age, five. And then around, I would say around maybe 13 or 14, it started, maybe 12, it started to become my whole life. So, you know, I played rec soccer growing up and then got into the select soccer world and in north texas soccer is a very big deal i don't know why specifically in north texas but uh it's A very big deal up here so i ended up on a very good team called the dallas texans which i told you was uh by a former Iranian World Cup player who was terrifying, Hassan Nazari. He owned the whole club and he drove this convertible Porsche and was absolutely terrifying. So I played select for the Dallas Texans, but then there's a level, I also played high school, which is just for fun. You know, you're just dorking around with your idiot friends. But so I was playing club and high school at the same time. But above that, there's a type of league called the Olympic Development Program. And this is like the farm teams that lead all the way up to the U.S. National team. And so the ODP program, every state has its own state team. Texas happens to have two. We have the North Texas team and the South Texas team. And then like you go to these practices where all your enemies from your club, like you're like select league. You're all on the same team now. And so like you go to these tryouts for ODP. All the select players are there. Then you get picked to be on the team and then over the summer the state teams all travel to play each other so you go to like odp camp and like there's a region so it's like from texas over To florida up to like north carolina is the region three that we were in so you would go to these camps and like we would play florida and we would play north carolina and it was so fun um it Was brutal and a huge amount of pressure because like the national team scouts are there and so um while you're at odp camp like while you're at the camp i'm there representing north texas I'm the goalie i'm like you know the big guy on the team and they select a regional team so then we're one step away from national team right so i get selected for the region team so i am now All my enemies from florida and north carolina and south carolina we're all on one team together we're all on the regional team together like 16 or this is like probably 16 um so I'm on The region 3 ODP team so I'm like and this is the point where you start playing other countries and so you're playing yeah you're playing you know you're playing the left side of our country The north right of our country and you know, north and right. Those are different, you know, cardinal mechanisms, but it doesn't matter. And you're also playing like Mexico and parts of Canada and stuff. And so you're at regional camp. So they select people from state camp to stay over and form the regional team. And so I got selected for that several times. You're on the regional team, you're playing these other, you're like traveling to these different places to play other nations. And then from those four there i think there are four regional teams in the u.s they select the national team and that is the team that i never ever made so i never made it to the national Team several of my friends did and so i'll be watching like actual world cup and i'm like i played with that guy like i was i was friends with that guy but yeah, it was, it was my whole life. So at one point or many points, I'm on three teams at once. I'm playing high school, I'm playing club and I'm playing state. And then it just like, it burned me out. I lost all joy for it. A hundred percent. It became like pressure, stress. And I looked forward and at college and I had several offers to go play, obviously, because it's like, you know, you're on the regional team. There's not that many of us. So I had several offers to go play and I decided I didn't want my whole life to be soccer because I also looked forward and I looked at like, am I ever going to make it to a European league? No. Do I want to play in the MLS? Not really. Like, I don't want to make, you know, forty thousand dollars a year and play at crappy stadiums um and so I just decided to give the whole thing up and go to Texas A&M and have a proper like College experience and play intramurals with my idiot friends and it was a blast um and I never played again so every wreck every really hung it up it just is like a chapter that is closed. Yeah. So every intramural, every rec, I played, you know, indoor soccer as an adult. All of it. Never, ever played goalie again. Because it was like, I did that. I did that. I did it, I think, to a very high standard. And I don't want to open that door of my life again. And you know what? Turns out I'm a pretty good field player when you compare me to everyone else in the beer league. Yeah, so much training. ([Time 1:09:23](https://share.snipd.com/snip/cfe6eeae-7399-4ebe-9926-f539d3215baa))