713: Is "Christian Nationalism" Overused? Plus Amar Peterman  🔗 **Source:** [713: Is "Christian Nationalism" Overused? Plus Amar Peterman](https://share.snipd.com/episode/9dbb8443-e656-4f67-afcd-d1c5e755b08a) ## Highlights - **Authority Shapes Public Moral Witness** - The Catholic Church is speaking out more strongly about the Iran war because it has centralized teaching and hierarchy that can issue definitive moral judgments. - Evangelical leaders lack unified authority and depend on congregational donors, which discourages statements that might alienate supporters. Transcript: Phil Vischer On this? So that's what I'm wondering. Why is the Catholic Church in America and globally, and it's both, because it's the U.S., the Cardinal Kupich of Chicago. Yeah, he was the one who complained about the administration putting out videos that intercut real bombings in Iran with scenes from popular video games. Skye Jethani And... Yeah, there is a... The communication coming out of the government, the administration around the war is somewhat disturbing. Phil Vischer It is disturbing. Yeah. So he was the one who... Doesn't reflect the gravity of what's going on. Who called out, we do not treat war like a video game. I haven't seen as many really strong statements like that from evangelical leaders. And I'm wondering, is it because, here's my theory, is you never saw, and maybe I'm wrong, but I don't recall the Catholic Church ever kind of sanctifying the U.S. Military to the degree that evangelicals have done over the last hundred years. Caitlin Schess They sanctified lots of other militaries. Phil Vischer They're way, way bad. Skye Jethani There is a little bit of irony of a Catholic bishop saying using God's name to justify war is the gravest of sins when the Catholic church does have a bit of history. Caitlin Schess Or an appropriate, like, I know what I'm talking about. It's a grave sin. We did it. Yeah. Skye Jethani Yes. Right. Yeah. There's that. Well, we've talked about this before. There is a different authority structure in the Catholic Church than in, say, popular white American evangelicalism. More nuanced language about war and the gravity of it all and the pain of it all, that sends a signal to the rest of the church that this is the way we're talking about it. ([Time 0:21:40](https://share.snipd.com/snip/93e6396d-8f88-4fe1-aa84-218543e48f75)) ## New Highlights added 2026-04-18 at 5:44 PM - **Do The Tedious Long Work Of Neighboring** - Do long-term relationship work to love neighbors: move beyond immediate interactions to trusted relationships where perspectives can shift. - Amar emphasizes patience and habitual presence rather than quick fixes or transactional outreach. Transcript: Amar Peterman I mean, I think that is like the long work of this is that often neighbor love can look like this immediate, sometimes spontaneous encounter of walking in your neighborhood and meeting Someone and striking up a conversation. But I think the tedious and long work of neighbor love is entering into relationship with people in such a way that you likely won't convince someone that the goods that they seek for Themselves are self-destructive or wrong. But in trusted relationship over time, that can be different. And so, yeah, there's, and I'm guilty of it too, the immediacy or the desire for an immediacy is so prevalent. And I think algorithms and culture do only incentivize this. And yet I think the tedious work and the long work of neighbor love is knowing our neighbors beyond, I talk about beyond their yard signs, but also beyond just these immediate interactions. And instead thinking through what is a neighborhood that is in relationship with one another for the long haul look like. ([Time 1:14:15](https://share.snipd.com/snip/b836d3c4-eff2-4eac-9a4b-e9d50565d082)) - **Prophet Priest King Maps Civic Roles** - Amar uses Christ's threefold office—prophet, priest, king—to map civic roles: prophets call out injustice, priests mediate community practices, kings steward resources for common good. - This framework helps Christians identify how to contribute according to gifts rather than one-size-fits-all approaches. Transcript: Amar Peterman Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we were talking before about Calvin's Institutes and Calvin is a church reformer and a pastor and a lawyer and many other things, a very complicated figure, but writes the institutes As a pastor for Christians in Geneva and France and Europe broadly to try to instruct them on what this new Protestant life could look like and what doctrines they hold, what piety is, What the theater of God's glory looks like in the world. And he offers these threefold offices for Christ as prophet, priest, and king. That as prophet, Christ both predicts and also foretells, proclaims God's desire for God's people. As priest, Christ is the mediator between God and humanity. And as king, Christ is Lord over all people and all things. And I think these are unique prototypes for how Christians might consider engaging in their own communities. That as prophets, there are folks calling out in the world that is not right and naming the things that are not right. And hopefully what God would have for Christians in America today, Christians in our own communities, calling out people in high power of authority who are abusing or manipulating Their power to their own ends rather than for the good of God and neighbor. Priests are, of course, pastors, priests in high church traditions, and also people. I cite some artists and musicians in the book because I think they're also doing priestly work and that they are mediating these beautiful truths about God to us, creating pathways For us to see our lives as filled with God's glory in this deeply sacramental way. And then as I'm thinking of kings, these are folks who are endowed with power and influence. Sometimes that's wealth and sometimes that's otherwise. But these folks are often tasked with considering what caring for others, being over others looks like and how to steward the resources that they are given towards the good of all people, Rather than to, as we so often see in our world today, folks who begin to attain this kind of kingly work and use it to hoard their own wealth or to prioritize their profits over their own Employees or the people that are their customers, the people that are serving them. And there's a way in which we maybe acclimate more to one of these roles over others. Some seem more glamorous. I think a lot of people talk about being a prophetic voice or being a prophet in the world. When folks say that, I say, be careful. The prophets didn't quite enjoy being prophets. They didn't want that job. Yeah. It's difficult and it's difficult work, but it's necessary. And I think it's the calling that God has for some people. But often we find ourselves kind of moving between all three of these things, just as Christ did. ([Time 1:17:20](https://share.snipd.com/snip/a2abad7b-3c45-4d99-9306-1cbbcb1285b6)) - **Diner Church That Builds Common Good** - Amar describes a small Milwaukee church that meets in a diner, blending ordained liturgy with food, urban farming, and volunteering to create belonging across differences. - The church intentionally organizes community meals, a food pantry, and city partnerships as practical expressions of the common good. Transcript: Amar Peterman I am part of a small church in Milwaukee that meets at a local diner. That's near my house. And it's run by a longtime community organizer in the city who, when his kids went to undergrad, he went to seminary. And did similar to what I'm doing now. He lived in Milwaukee, but commuted down to McCormick Theological Seminary in Hyde Park. Took classes and stayed there a couple of nights of the week and eventually got ordained. And his presbytery here in Milwaukee sent him out and said, plant this church. And it's been a slow process of folks gathering together, people across Milwaukee. And I am easily by probably 15, 20 years, the youngest, my wife had the youngest people there. But it's a beautiful community of people who have often been slighted, if not hurt, or perhaps traumatized by common, what we would typically say are practices or liturgies of church Life, and instead have found this place of deep belonging that's centered around shared food and shared stories and conversation. And because it's a church, there's still ordained ministers who are administering communion and a sermon, scripture, scripture reading, worship and song. But in that, I've been just amazed by the folks who find their way on a Wednesday night into the back room of this diner that closes earlier in the day, but folks make their way through. And it's just the most wonderful people in my neighborhood who I would never have met otherwise, who find their way into the space. And we get to, in a very tangible way, feed them, proclaim the gospel together, and then go out and then serve. And so other aspects of this church is that we volunteer every week at a food pantry here in Milwaukee. That's an urban farm when the weather accommodates that and is a food pantry when it doesn't. ([Time 1:22:20](https://share.snipd.com/snip/c4997b7c-92bb-4d5d-86d4-4397d34d5b78))