96: No More Amateur Hour  ## Metadata - Author: [[Mostly Technical]] - Full Title: 96: No More Amateur Hour - Category: #podcasts - URL: https://share.snipd.com/episode/8993655e-1f41-40b0-9755-a988cde87fc1 ## Document Notes ## Highlights - **AI Needs Speed Over Hype** - AI in product is less about smarter models and more about speed and low friction for users. - Ian and Aaron agree AI adoption depends on being fast, cheap, and seamless rather than vastly smarter. Transcript: Ian Landsman We're discussing an AI-based feature in HelpSpot, and if we want to do it. And Matt did a prototype, and so we were discussing the prototype, and so on and so forth. But everything's tricky with the AI. Right now we're not doing it. Aaron Francis Sorry, Matt. Condolences, Matt. Ian Landsman At least he used AI to build it, you know? So it only took him, like, four or five hours. So it's not like the old days where it's like you got to throw out this three weeks of work, and that was a bummer. But, yeah, you know, it's the kind of thing that requires like a bunch of simultaneous AI calls, but like a thing that has to be done in order and like it starts to get complicated and you Make people wait and people don't want to wait. Right now we're shelving it, I think, is the current plan. That's a pity. That is a pity. I do like this feature a lot, but it'll get in there some way. Sam Altman's going to make the AI super fast soon and it'll be fine. Aaron Francis Yeah, yeah. It's going to be super fast and continue to be basically free, I'm sure. I'm sure that's not going to come back to bite us. Ian Landsman The real thing the AI needs, it just needs to be faster. It's like everything else is fine. I'm actually, the cost is fine. The smartness is fine i don't think it needs to be any smarter at all it's it's ([Time 0:00:46](https://share.snipd.com/snip/c77ed6b2-852c-41cd-a12c-ed62d48fd8ae)) - **AI Economics Shape Product Choices** - Big providers may be subsidizing input tokens while output tokens cost more, shaping product trade-offs. - Aaron frames the current AI push as a land-grab where companies plaster AI buttons to capture users. Transcript: Aaron Francis I don't know. I feel like the tokens are subsidized. Are they not? Like, isn't there going to be a reckoning someday when they're like, all right, now we got to pay full fare for the Uber ride. And you're like, oh, that's kind of expensive. Ian Landsman I don't know. I've heard conflicting reports about this. Somebody, oh, man, I feel bad now. I don't remember their name. But I was just chatting with somebody. Yeah, just you. For this. Basically that the input tokens, there's essentially almost no cost to them and that they're actually making money on the input tokens. The output tokens are expensive for them. So I don't know. I mean, they're definitely not making money, right? There's no way they're making money in terms of all their spending on overhead and all that. They're not making money. But perhaps the economics aren't totally terrible. I mean, they are shoving AI into literally everything. And so if the economics were terrible, terrible, presumably, like, there wouldn't be an Excel function where you could put AI in every cell of your spreadsheet, right? Aaron Francis I don't know that that follows. I don't know that line of reasoning is legit. Yeah. I want to believe that that's legit. I just don't think it is. I don't think that's real. There is. Ian Landsman I mean, billions and billions of dollars do subsidize a lot of pretty much anything. Aaron Francis Yeah. And I think it's a land grab. ([Time 0:02:30](https://share.snipd.com/snip/ab737740-6ce2-4aa8-8d7b-273427a28e5c)) - **Automate, Then Ask Humans** - Let automation do heavy lifting but present decisions to humans for final sign-off. - Bake AI into processes where users see a suggested action and can approve or reject it. Transcript: Aaron Francis Yeah, I think my take on that and actually all internal business software is just make the computer do as much as it can, but still present the decision point to the human. So however we can bake that in, and I don't think that always means like sparkle buttons that say like summarize this email you know there's something else there where it's like let's Bake in this process let's use this alien intelligence and then present it to the end user and they can say yes or no and then we'll go back to work so ([Time 0:06:12](https://share.snipd.com/snip/e039988c-52ad-4104-8a02-1ceea5a0da38)) - **Boise 24-Hour Video Shoot** - Aaron flew to Boise for a one-day cinematic video shoot with a small local crew and a hired actor. - He served as producer while Steve directed, and they shot at an Airbnb and a co-working space. Transcript: Aaron Francis For the tardiness of the show. That's what I was thinking. I was out of town yesterday. I was out of this town. Yes, I was in another town. I was in the town of Boise, Idaho. Ian Landsman Which you go to a lot, oddly enough. Aaron Francis Which, oddly enough, I go to a lot. I've been to Boise more than I've been to New York, just as God intended. So on Sunday afternoon, late afternoon, I flew to Boise. And then yesterday, which is Monday now, I was part of a video. I was helping create, and I can't say for who or for what yet. It'll come out. It'll come out. That's called a tease. It'll come out. It's not my story to tell. But, yeah, somebody reached out to me maybe like not very long ago, like two weeks ago, and was like, hey, can you help us make a video? And I'm like, what kind of video? And they said, well, the timeline is short. And so I'm already thinking, no, I can't. I don't want to do that. I got a life to live. Timeline is short, but we want something cinematic, like your layoff announcement or your Postgres trailer, something like that. And I'm like, okay, that's, uh, that's interesting. So potentially we're talking like, uh, you know, a proper video. Um, and this is a company that reached out. Um, and so we started talking about it more and I, I told them, I was like, I mean, yes, I can do it with one giant caveat. I've got to get, I got to get producer Steve in on it. I can't do that myself. I can't, I just, I don't, I don't have the skill, get the gang back together. I don't have the skill level. I don't have the equipment. I don't have the connections. Like I potentially have an eye for it, but I don't know how to express that through like, you know, camera settings and lighting setups and all of that. And so I called, I called producer Steve and was like, I got it. I got a wild one for you. What do you think about this? You can say no. And if you say no, that's fine. I won't do it either. Like it's, it's either you and me do this or I'm not doing it. Cause I can't risk, I can't risk trying to like throw together a crew that I've never worked with down in Dallas or something. Ian Landsman And you were like, for you, the action is the juice is what you're saying. I don't know what that means, but that's awesome. What does that mean? No, that sounds awesome. Oh, I've seen Heat. I've seen Heat. I love Heat. I love Heat. They're like, should we rob this bank? And he's like, it might be worth a stretch for me. DeNero says. And he goes to the other guy. And the other other guy's like, are you in? He's like, are you in? You're not in. He's like, for me, the action is the juice. So he's just going. Whatever De Niro's doing, he's going. Oh man, that's cool. Aaron Francis What a great saying. Love that movie. Great film. Something you and I bond over. I can't believe you know about this. It's so great. I know. It's a great movie. I recently re-watched it. When did I re-watch that? Like less than a month ago. And you don't have the action is the juice? I don't have the action is the juice. No, I got to get there. Yeah, I'll re-watch again. I watched Hurt Locker on the plane. And I'm like, man, this is such a top five movie. Top five movie Hurt Locker. I have not seen Hurt Locker. Ian Landsman Oh, dude, it's so depressing. You're going to love it. You're going to love it. Aaron Francis We can do it in a day, either like a Friday or a Monday, we can pull this off. And I was like, hell yeah, we're doing it. All right. Tell me. Ian Landsman Is the company in Boise or you just went to Boise because Steve's in Boise? Aaron Francis Just went to Boise because Steve's in Boise. Okay. All right. I got that. So, Steve said yes. He's in. And then, you know, we started putting together a team. We put together a team, a crew. So, it was me, Steve, another videographer, audio, like an audio engineer with the boom mic and everything. Okay. So he's like standing in the background with a 12 foot pole with a microphone dangling over my head. Wow. And then we hired an honest to goodness proper actor. We hired somebody. I'm in the video. Okay. And across from me is an actor that we just, we found through connections. Wow. So we hired an actor and then somebody from the company flew into Boise as well. So there were, you know, however many, five, six of us there. And we spent all day, you know, going through different scenes. They had written a script, going through different scenes, recording this video. We rented out. We rented an Airbnb, which is where i stayed which worked out nicely um but we also we rented that specific airbnb because of the aesthetics inside we did a few shots there um and then we Rented a uh co-working space that had a few big rooms that we could like conference rooms that we kind of rearrange to look certain ways. So we did the morning at the Airbnb in the afternoon at this co-working space. ([Time 0:07:00](https://share.snipd.com/snip/f40c6a45-320c-4ee4-84c3-12e811322cac)) - **First Class Upgrade For Short Trip** - Aaron upgraded a layover leg to first class for comfort and to be ready for his shoot. - He describes first class as a dramatically better experience than coach with food, drinks, and more space. Transcript: Aaron Francis It's not great. It's not great you know what i did do what'd you do i had a layover in denver just because i hate it okay the things the things i do but that worked out with the nap time departure was i did have To do a layover in denver i upgraded my second leg to first class let's go time first time let's go first time it is pretty awesome it's pretty great it's good stuff it's pretty great it Wasn't it wasn't very expensive it was a day of upgrade so they obviously had seats left over and so they're trying to like you know they're trying to get some money out of you yeah um i'm Like this this is this is a business trip like this whole thing is you know this all right off to me yeah it's a write-off let's do it let's go for it and guys i hate to tell you it's better it's Ian Landsman Better up there it's better it's not even close it's so much better it's not even the same as like a extended leg room it's no past extended leg room in terms of how much better. Aaron Francis I just looked back at the unwashed masses all coughing, flies buzzing around their head. And I'm like, give me another champagne. Ian Landsman Yeah, it's awesome. It's just like the Seinfeld episode about it. It's literally just like that. It's beautiful people. Yes. It's champagne. It's food. It's warm towels for some reason. Aaron Francis I'd love to dab my face off. Of course. Definitely. What airline? The way there was United. ([Time 0:19:10](https://share.snipd.com/snip/1da1fb24-7c63-43aa-886f-9eeeb97eaa28)) - **36 Years Without A Skincare Routine** - Aaron visited a dermatologist who diagnosed dry, sensitive skin and prescribed a morning and evening routine. - He admitted he's never had a real face-washing routine in 36 years and plans to start slowly. Transcript: Ian Landsman Apparently you have a new routine regarding your face. So I got home just in time to go to a dermatologist appointment. Aaron Francis And so I go to the dermatologist and I'm like, hey, listen, lady, my face hurts sometimes. I feel like... I feel like windblown. Like I'm coming off the dunes, you know, at the end of the day. Here's the problem, though. I sit in a comfortable air-conditioned room all day, so I don't understand why I feel windblown. That's because the wind's blowing out. She's like, okay, what's your routine in the morning? What do you wash your face with? And I was stumped. I was like, I didn't expect the questions to be this hard. I said water. And she said, okay, end of the day, what's your routine? What do you wash your face with? And I said, either water or if I'm in the shower, a bar of Dove soap. And she was like, okay, we can work with that. And she gave me a whole routine. So her diagnosis is you have a dry sensitive skin and i was like yeah that checks out you know sounds reasonable that sounds reasonable to me um so i'm getting into face washing so i'm gonna Wash my face in the morning with like some face wash and then i'm gonna put on like some like some uh Yeah. And then at the end, before I go to bed, I'm going to wash my face and put on some other like moisturizer or something. So I'm just getting into face washing. I haven't done it yet, but it's been 36 years. And I think I can like, I can, I can do this. I can wash my face. Ian Landsman Sounds terrible. Aaron Francis Doesn't it? That's what I'm saying. I had to take a picture of all the stuff she wrote down and give it to chat and be like, can you write out what I'm supposed to do here? It's like wash and then moisturize and then pat dry. I'm like, what am I doing? This is why I haven't done it for so long. No, this is not working for me. It's not ([Time 0:27:54](https://share.snipd.com/snip/99ac6a6f-6402-444a-8b26-6c524a30ea8e)) - **Start Skincare Once Daily** - Start a new skincare habit gradually, testing once-daily before committing to twice-daily. - Choose morning if you want sunscreen benefits and evening only if you need cleansing from daytime products. Transcript: Aaron Francis I feel like a last resort, This is apparently something that people do. People do this. Oh, people do do it. Lots of people do this. People do do it. So we're going to try it. I've got some, I don't know, moisturizer with sunscreen in it. Maybe that'll help twice a day or once a day uh which one with the washing and the twice i gotta do it in the morning and at night which if i did it at night what am i doing in the morning for yeah Ian Landsman That's stupid don't do that don't you don't start twice a day start once a day and see if you even need twice a day yeah that's probably good yeah start once a day don't make yourself crazy I mean, if once a day works, why do you, you don't need twice a day, right? So do once a day. Which once of the day should I do? Well, I would probably go, I'm not a doctor, but I would probably go, yeah, Jeff GBT. Yeah. But I would probably do the morning because if you're going to go the sunscreen angle, kind of give you the sunscreen vibe thing. It's dark at yeah. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, are you outside ever? Do you need sunscreen? If not, maybe I go with the evening. Aaron Francis I'll start with the morning. Okay. And I'll stick to allow the water to wash over my face in the shower as the nighttime routine. ([Time 0:33:00](https://share.snipd.com/snip/49cb5296-91ad-44c7-a1d1-64ce309460e9)) - **100th Episode: Maybe Do Nothing** - The hosts debated doing anything special for episode 100 and leaned toward doing nothing to avoid a clip-show. - Ian suggested skipping a forced celebration and maybe saving something for episode 200. Transcript: Aaron Francis A good question what show what number show is this 90 something high 96 right something like that let's go to the internet that feels right this is 96 that we are recording this is 96 okay Ian Landsman So we gotta figure it out soon um don't know. I don't know. Maybe the people should comment with their ideas down below. That's a great idea. Comment down below. Aaron Francis So what have we seen historically? We've seen like live, like party shows, right? You get people calling in, dropping out, calling in, dropping out. It's fun or hanging. I've seen uh all sitcoms always do clip shows i don't like clip shows i feel like i tune in for the 100th episode and it's just reruns i don't i don't want that yes i know i always skip them Yeah um so unless we have something besides call-in party show, which I don't even know if I want to do a call-in party show. Ian Landsman We're not really set up for it, so it's probably going to be janky because we don't know what we're doing, and we're going to be figuring it out and all that stuff. If we had been smart, which we're not, at the party, we could have maybe gotten audio clips of people or little video snippets of people saying nice things about us, which we could have Used in the 100th show. That would have been cool. People told us those things, but we didn't record them. Aaron Francis I think we did as much as we could have done at the party. Taking on any extra responsibilities. Pushed it all the way. Yeah, would have maxed us out too far. It's possible. Yeah, I don't know. Do you have any opinions on it? Ian Landsman I feel like it's most like the show to do nothing. So I'm kind of leaning towards like we just cruise right through it and it's like we don't even know it was the 100th episode probably. We're going to not even realize it and then it'll be like 103 and we'll be like, oh, 100 episodes. A couple weeks back there. Aaron Francis Yeah, I'm on board with that. Yeah. We'll do something special for 200. ([Time 0:36:57](https://share.snipd.com/snip/94d0cbb4-eed9-4a6b-aaba-4a10b467c568)) - **Investing In TinySeed Fund 3** - Ian invested in TinySeed Fund 3 because they focus on bootstrapped B2B SaaS and have strong returns. - He expects mentor involvement and liked that TinySeed repaid fund-one investors within six years. Transcript: Aaron Francis Investing in tiny seed you are becoming an investor in the Tiny Seed Fund. Ian Landsman Yes, the Tiny Seed Fund 3. Aaron Francis Okay, tell me what led to this. Ian Landsman So let's just be clear. I might be breaking the law right now. It's possible I signed an NDA. I don't actually even know. That is possible. So we're just going to cruise because I don't think we're going to get in trouble. Aaron Francis Comment down below if he's breaking the NDA. If you're Aynar. If you're Aynar or Rob and you're currently mad. Ian Landsman Have your lawyer comment down below. But we're going to roll with it. I'm very excited. And it's good for the Tiny Seed for me to talk about it on the show. So I think they'll be okay with it. Aaron Francis You're doing them a favor. Ian Landsman Yeah, exactly. I'm doing you a favor. Don't be mad at me. So Tiny Seed, they're raising money. They have a public page about it. You can go. If you're interested in raising money, you should go check it out. Or, no, investing money. Hey, if you're interested in raising money, too. But, yeah, so the first two, they have three funds. First three funds have been doing well. They just announced that they fully paid back the investors from the first fund, which was only six years ago, which is amazing. I mean, I've been in like kind of angel invested in a number of things and not gotten all my money back. That's for sure. Even though some of the things are out there and doing well, but it's like, you know, someday when they sell, you might get some money. Tiny Seed's whole thing. If you're not worth TinySeed, it's the people who run MicroConf, started this fund where they invest in bootstrap startups specifically. So they're, I think, usually the only investor, at least initially. And it's usually already apps that are going. They're not going to fund you if you have an idea for an app. It's like you have an app, you have some revenue, things are working. Yeah almost always B2B. Revenue generating SaaS apps. Yeah, solo or not necessarily solo, but bootstrap founder or founders got some traction, but need some cash maybe to get out of your day job or just double down and marketing and things Like that. So they invest in those kind of very particular niche, which is obviously a niche that I am personally a part of, which I think is cool. And yeah, I'm really excited. It was very straightforward. So like I said, I've done some little things before, but mostly like the VC level where I would like, whatever, it's a fund, but it's like some VC guy runs it. And he's like, Jason Kalkanis is the main one that I've invested in. He's like, hey, I'm investing in this. Yeah. And it's like, can check in. What is his, like the launch syndicate or something? Yeah, it's like the syndicate, yeah. Yeah. And most of the ones I did with him were like, I mean, it's more than 10 years ago now probably, but yeah, so those ones are like put in $1,000 or $2,000 or whatever because it's like you're Investing super early before the thing even exists. It's probably going to zero and whatever. Got a little tiny piece. But this one was more than that, but not an insane amount of money, but a chunk of money. And yeah, but I think it's cool. I guess I can then also now be involved as like a mentor type person. I'm not sure that works. That's what I was going to say. Aaron Francis I bet you end up becoming a tiny seed mentor for sure. Yeah, that'd be cool. You'd be good at that. Yeah, talking to other people about their businesses and doing business ad. Ian Landsman And then not having to do the work. Yeah, that's the best one. That's the dream. Here's some advice for you. Yeah. It's all leading towards my corner office where I don't actually do anything. Yep. I'm on the way. Yeah, I don't know. I don't really have anything in particular to say about it other than it's cool. I like that they do this. It seems like they actually have a cool little niche that's working well and paying back the investors very quickly, which is cool. Yeah, I'm excited to be a part of it. And I guess maybe go to a MicroConf. ([Time 0:39:07](https://share.snipd.com/snip/2a7cae9d-4eda-4266-8043-abfb087aa7f5)) - **AI Outputs Still Need Human Guardrails** - Ian's AI prototype for HelpSpot exposed brittle behavior like unnecessary backup files and missing conversational context. - He concluded humans must still guard AI outputs because models can introduce subtle, damaging artifacts. Transcript: Ian Landsman The seed data and help spot? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah we talked about that the ai it's like so we're still so far from it replacing anybody it's just remarkable how everybody talks about it's getting rid of everything and I'm like we're so far away from that but like so i had it all done did a couple tweet everything was fine everything was good i know where this is going yeah it's not even terrible but it's Just like everything was fine that's great foreshadowing flawless yeah two two main things so first is i then i dug a little deeper and there's basically four types of content right And there's like b2b b2c hr it and these are the different example content for the different help spot primary use cases but when i dug a little deeper like they were supposed to have conversations In the ticket, like a back and forth. So it was like a real support, you know, not totally real, but you know, on quick pass, it's real. But like two of them actually didn't have conversations. They only had like initial notes, but they had no conversation. So I had to tell it to go back and do all that. Fine. It did that. And then I'm making the pull request to like post. So the other dev here can take a look and blah, blah, blah. And I noticed it made of every one of the content files, of which there's like 80. It made a.bak backup of them. Oh, perfect. At some point in the last like couple of weeks, I didn't even look at the commit because it was like in the last commit or something where I tweaked one little thing. And it for some reason went crazy and made a bunch of backup files. So I was like, well, is the kind of thing, what if it just randomly makes a, it did nothing, so it was fine, but it could randomly change anything and screw you. You still need the human to watch out what's going on and catch these things. There's not going to be an easy way around that, I think. But anyway, my little AI side note there, AI trying to screw me. ([Time 0:49:10](https://share.snipd.com/snip/ec89f016-14ad-417b-adcb-96e867017285)) - **Use Laravel Boost To Improve AI Context** - Install Laravel Boost when using AI with Laravel to provide context, tools, and docs for better prompts. - Boost yields immediate improvements by exposing routes, tinker, package docs, and an agents.md context file. Transcript: Aaron Francis So here we are. I haven't used the Boost yet. Have you used the Boost? I've used the Boost. The Boost is good. The Boost is very good. So for context, for the dear listener, Laravel Boost is an installable package that gives you a few things. One is tools to interact with your Laravel application more easily. Well, for the AI to interact with it. So it'll list routes and give you like a tinker, a way to execute tinker, which is Laravel's REPL. And so it's like it gives you several tools. What it also gives you is because it's an installable package it does introspection figures out what version of laravel what version of inertia what version of i think view i don't know But some other major in there live wire um and it it like creates an mcp server with those docs specifically, which is really, really helpful. Tailwind is one of them. Gosh, because like always wants to do Tailwind 3. And I'm like, please don't do that. So I found it very, very helpful. I think, I don't know what's most useful. I don't know if Tinker, like the Tinker tool is most useful or if the docks are most useful. But either way, it's really good. So, yeah, I would encourage it. It's awesome. Ian Landsman Yeah, I haven't had anything to use it in really yet for what I've been doing. But when I get back to outro, hopefully this week I'm going to put boost in there. And especially for the flux dock, super looking forward to that. But, yeah, you know, the things like with Tailwind, I was a little like, I wonder if it's going to work. Like, because it knows Tailwind internally, so I would think strongly, like, will it know to go to the MCP server for that or whatever? But I guess I'll find out. Yeah, find out. Aaron Francis I don't know. It also creates like a, of your choice, I think mine is Claude.md. Maybe it's all standardized on agents.md now, but it creates like a context file that kind of says, hey, this project is using these packages. You can find docs for them through this MCP. Here are the tools you have access to. And so it sets up a little like first run context, which is also very helpful. So I would recommend install it on anything where you're using AI and all it. And it's just going to like, it may not revolutionize it, but it's going to make it 10, 20% better because it's going to have just better context. So yeah, definitely recommend the boost. ([Time 0:52:00](https://share.snipd.com/snip/9da22ac3-b9b9-4891-8a81-ef2313e2efa9)) - **Fake Date Backlash** - Aaron got crushed in listener feedback when he called a short solo outing a 'fake date' and listeners insisted it was a real date. - A flurry of blunt replies told him his example wasn't convincing and labeled it a real date. Transcript: Aaron Francis A lot of fake date follow-up. What happened there? Well, Ian, here are some things I love. Yeah. I love Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. OK. Love my family and friends. Yeah. Good stuff. And I love being right. I just love it so much. That's unfortunate. I think we went two for three on this one. Unfortunately, we had a big old miss on the fake date. Nobody's buying that. Nobody's buying that this is a fake date. For context, I said sneaking out, leaving the babysitter or leaving the nanny there for an hour, sneaking out in your gym rat clothes, going to the local place, sitting at the bar, eating A quick dinner and coming home. Hey, that's great. What a wonderful thing for us. It's a fake date, though. It's not a real date. To a person, every single person, not one person agreed with me. Not even one. Literally zero people agreed with me. They all, somebody, I think, I think it was Mitch, the Elixir Tools guy, wrote an email in that just said, no context, nothing. Wasn't a response to anything. Came in the middle of the week, all lowercase. It's a real date. That was it. That was the whole email. That was the whole email. It's a real date. So I got freaking posterized on that one. I didn't stand a chance. Ian Landsman So congrats. These people out there haven't had a date in six months. You're like, we go on this thing every week, but it's not a date. We go out to dinner, just the two of us. Aaron Francis No kids, a babysitter. We just talk and flirt, but it's not a date. Okay. Well, congrats, everyone. You've broken a good man. There you go. That was a date. ([Time 0:55:08](https://share.snipd.com/snip/9de12b09-24c7-4492-b63a-dd059e2f4450)) - **Anniversary Breakfast Then Wine** - Ian celebrated his 22nd wedding anniversary with a low-key early breakfast and wine later, calling it a 'real fake date.' - They favored a simple morning meal and connecting later after family obligations. Transcript: Ian Landsman A real date as well. It was fake date style. A real fake date? That's great. It was a real fake date. Tell me. It was actually our 22nd wedding anniversary. That's real. Aaron Francis On Sunday. Definitely real. Ian Landsman Yes. Happy anniversary. Thank you. That would normally be real. Like, you'd be like, you're going to go out to dinner. You're going to get dressed up, whatever, blah, blah. But like, we had tons of stuff this weekend. The kids had tons of stuff it was just packed packed weekend so instead we did breakfast date at a fancy sort of in this hotel restaurant type like real breakfast like like pre-9 a.m. Breakfast pre-9 a.m. It was whoa maybe it was around 9 a.m. It was right in there it was too early for brunch brunch didn't start till 10 And we were like, we're not waiting. Just like give us what you got. Which I had some very delicious lemon regatta pancake type situation. Some sausage. Jamie had eggs and potatoes and sausage and stuff. And so we had, but it's a very nice place. So it was cool. But we weren't like dressed up fancy because breakfast. Um, so it was great. We did that. Did you get a little champagne? Aaron Francis Did you get a little French toast, powdered sugar, anything like that? Ian Landsman I thought about the, uh, like some mimosas, but I think because it wasn't brunch, they weren't even set up for that. Because it was the crack of dawn. We're on the ultra old people, date, real date anniversary thing. And, yeah, so we did that. And then we did all the kids stuff, blah, blah, blah. And then we at home around like four had some wine. So that was the other part. We like connected it back through. Which we haven't been having any drinking of any sort lately. So a little wine to celebrate. It was very nice. There you go. Aaron Francis So it was our fake date. This is very, first of all, I'm very happy for you. It's a long time. Congratulations. Also, this is the most parent energy I've ever heard. ([Time 0:57:10](https://share.snipd.com/snip/9c305423-c784-4377-abeb-399c1f1ff18e)) - **Outsource Preproduction Work Smartly** - Hire writers to own pre-production research and scripts so you only do camera work only you can do. - Accept AI use but require original voice and human review; test multiple candidates via paid samples. Transcript: Ian Landsman Give it to me. I do. Aaron Francis I'm trying to put in place people around me to be a business instead of just a guy. Right? I like it. Yes. So one of the things one of the roles i'm trying to fill is uh youtube writer um and i think i talked briefly about this on the last show but i've found probably four or five people who seem Like they could do it and i've given them all a sample project so gonna gonna pay for five people to do the same thing um and then we'll figure out like who do i work best with what style do I like maybe maybe it ends up being two or three of them i have no problem with that um and my charge to them was listen i don't care if you use ai in fact i would prefer if you did but listen we Can't like if you just turn in, you know, an AI script, it's over. Like, I'm not going to ship that. So what I need from you is to figure out how to, like, do the research, write it in my voice, write it in a way that is appealing to YouTube, and then produce the final artifact. And then if you can set up some sort of workflow in which you are involved, I don't expect you to have AI do the whole thing. But if you can set up some sort of process or system or whatever, that's great, because we're just going to run it back over and over and over. And so I got several people, wide gamut of people, working developers, technical writers, people who have done YouTube. And so I'm gonna, I'm gonna give it a shot. So the idea, the goal here is that I can be like, Hey, I want to do, you know, any one of these videos here, I need you to go and do like the first, I need you to go do the first pass, like do the Research, figure out like the structure that works, and then give me the first version. And then of course, I'm going to go in and I'm going to, you know, tweak it and change it or whatever. But the activation energy on everything is very like, it's hard. It's a hard barrier to get over the starting line. So if I can have somebody do this and potentially help me with courses too, I can be like, Hey, let's do JSON and Redis, like go search, go write me some like sample data that I can use in these Videos. Like all of that kind of stuff that is the pre-camera work. I'm trying to like not outsource, but like get teammates to help me with so that I can come in and like do the part that's on camera that only I can do. So I feel optimistic about it. ([Time 1:04:24](https://share.snipd.com/snip/207fc7be-cf2b-4ff8-9a68-5774e73e5a78)) - **Conferences: Big Effort, Low Margin** - Running in-person conferences is high effort with uncertain profit, while smaller piggyback events can balance vibe and logistics. - The hosts prefer piggybacking Mostly Technical parties onto bigger conferences as a practical middle ground. Transcript: Ian Landsman Well, there's always these down periods, too. I feel like August, I know for me, was like a big down period just with everything going on and Laravel. And I took a vacation and I sent off at college last week and whatever. There's always just all this stuff going on. And like, yeah, even just Laracon, like it just takes, you know, especially you are hosting it. You're doing a talk. Like, so the week before is a mess. You know, you're doing it. Did another conference. The week after is a mess. Just lose that momentum. But we're getting to fall, which is high momentum period. I feel like fall, winter. These are good. Buckle down. Put on a little sweater. Get a little soup. Aaron Francis Let's record some videos. Yes, let's do it. Ian Landsman Let's get in the right mindset. It's not i mean you're in dallas it's a little different up here it's like ah it's not that nice out it's gray it's cold yeah just be inside grinding away on whatever you're doing i don't Know i always that's the way i always plan it and then it always ends up where i'm like doing these big ideas on the summer which stinks because i'm interrupted and whatever but just the Aaron Francis Way it works it's the it's the week between christmas and New Year's for me where I'm like, I could do anything. And I should. I should do it all. That's the inspiration week for me. That liminal space where nobody's really online. Yeah, that's a nice time. And like everything's kind of low key and you have a second to dream. And then that's where it all happens. Ian Landsman Does stuff actually happen in that week for you though or no? Or does stuff come up and nothing happens? Aaron Francis January 1st hits and you got to respond to all the emails and you're like, oh man, I don't have time to do all these dreams. But sometimes, you know, it's fits and starts. We're inching towards progress. Ian Landsman I kind of want to go away that week this year. I've never been away that week, but I'm always just here, but I don't know. I got to get Jamie some sun this winter. This is on my to-do list. Whether I just, she goes off on her own or we go do something winter, hard on her. She doesn't like the winter. Gray. Aaron Francis You're in the wrong state to not like winter. Yeah, it's rough. Ian Landsman So we're going to ship her out at some point, get some rays. But we were talking about maybe doing a family trip in there. I don't know. We'll see. So tricky to travel that time of year, though, because everybody's traveling, which makes it super annoying, which makes me not want to travel. Makes me want to stay home, eat some soup, dream a little dream. Aaron Francis Yep, I feel it. Ian Landsman We're so far north here. It's not even like, well, we'll just drive and we'll drive down. Like a 20 hour drive to where it's warm. So not doing that. But the airport's a mess. I don't know. Aaron Francis Speaking of super cold, are you going to Livewire Con? Ian Landsman So this is an interesting little story here. Livewire Con, which I think there's no actual announcement yet, right? I looked the other day. Aaron Francis I mean, he talked about it. He's tweeted it and he's booked a ballroom. Yeah, he talked about the dates. Ian Landsman I think it's October 28th or something. Something like that. It's so soon. But yeah, I know. There's no tickets for sale. There's no like actual information. Yes, I'm very excited about Livewire Con. Okay. I'm 90% going. I plan on taking a train, which is very intriguing. The ice train? The ice train. Amtrak runs an ice train up to the Great White North. Yes, exactly. Good luck, yeah. Yes. So you get the nice business class seat on the Amtrak. Nice and big and cushy. Okay. And way cheaper than on an airplane for the business class anyway. And that's my plan. It's six and a half hours from Poughkeepsie to Buffalo. So by the time I drove to the city and got through security and dealt with all the stuff and fly, it's like not that much more time. So I figured I'd try the train. Little asterisk, which is that if the Brewers, which have the best record in baseball right now, if they are in the World Series, I got to go to the World Series. So now if they keep things as they are right now, they would be the home team based on their record. And so they would be playing on like the 24th and 25th. And then we could come home on 26th. And then Livewire Con, I think, starts the 28th or 27th or something. Aaron Francis So like it's a little tight. Some real divination going on here. If they have this record, then they'll do this. Ian Landsman That's a little tight. The World Series would take priority for me if there's some conflict there. But I think the way it works out, if he uses the dates he's already talked about, Caleb, then I don't think there's an actual conflict. It's just that they will be right up against each other. But I can work with that. I mean, I couldn't dare you take a boat. How cool would that be? Like some kind of boat across the Great Lakes? Like, that'd be pretty cool. Seems awesome, yeah. I don't think it's going to happen. I don't think that's going to happen. And we would actually have to fly to Chicago. So there's a whole other little thing here because like flying to Milwaukee from here is actually tricky. So, but there's a million flights a day to Chicago and O'Hare is pretty far north. So we could fly to O'Hare and then drive to Milwaukee. It's only like an hour from O'Hare. Aaron Francis There's a lot going on. I'm going to be honest, you lost me a little while back, but that sounds exciting. You're going to go to Wirecon. That's so fun. Are you going to go to Wirecon? How about that? Ian Landsman No. It's in Buffalo. Buffalo in the winter. What could be wrong with that? Aaron Francis It's a great white north. No, it sounds fun. It seems like it'll be a lot of fun. I don't use LiveWire. I'm trying not to travel very much, and it's in the great white north in the winter. It's all stacking up against you. Yeah, that's 0 for 3. But maybe you'd host. Ian Landsman Get you out there hosting. Aaron Francis Yeah, maybe. As a non-LiveWire user, I think I could probably still pull it off pretty well. You could pull it off. Ian Landsman Lots of people host things that they don't know about. Aaron Francis That's the whole thing I'm trying to do is be the host of everything. No, I have no plans, no plans to go. Ian Landsman I will report back if it works out. I think it's cool they're doing it. You know, I'll be curious to see how many people they get to come to Buffalo for LiveWireCon or WireCon or whatever this thing's called. But I think he said, what did he say? Like maybe he's trying to get like 150 or something like that. I think they can pull that off. I think it's doable. I think it's doable. Aaron Francis It's short though, right? It's one day? Ian Landsman Well, I think it's like one day of talks with the second day of something. There's got to be a second day. Aaron Francis If you're going to get Europeans to cross the pond, you've got to give them more than a day. Ian Landsman I think you need the second day just to make people feel like, maybe the second day can be lighter. Aaron Francis Oh, yeah, it could be hackathon, hang fast, whatever. Ian Landsman I don't need the second day, but I think in general, from a conference organizer perspective, you need the second day to make people feel like they can justify the travel expense. Amortize some of those costs. Look at this guy with his big fancy account words. Still got it. I still got it, man. He still got it. Yeah, so I think they did say on one of the podcasts that he, that's the plan. So, yeah, I mean, I think with the Thunk guys running it and, you know, with Caleb, there'll be a lot of wacky antics, which I think will be entertaining. It's going to be a bl... ([Time 1:09:52](https://share.snipd.com/snip/8225f97a-fad4-43c6-bfe5-23d0935c1c91)) - **Livewire Con Plans And Conflicts** - Ian plans to attend Livewire Con in Buffalo and hopes to take the train instead of flying. - He noted scheduling fragility because potential Brewers World Series games might conflict with the conference dates. Transcript: Ian Landsman So this is an interesting little story here. Livewire Con, which I think there's no actual announcement yet, right? I looked the other day. Aaron Francis I mean, he talked about it. He's tweeted it and he's booked a ballroom. Yeah, he talked about the dates. Ian Landsman I think it's October 28th or something. Something like that. It's so soon. But yeah, I know. There's no tickets for sale. There's no like actual information. Yes, I'm very excited about Livewire Con. Okay. I'm 90% going. I plan on taking a train, which is very intriguing. The ice train? The ice train. Amtrak runs an ice train up to the Great White North. Yes, exactly. Good luck, yeah. Yes. So you get the nice business class seat on the Amtrak. Nice and big and cushy. Okay. And way cheaper than on an airplane for the business class anyway. And that's my plan. It's six and a half hours from Poughkeepsie to Buffalo. So by the time I drove to the city and got through security and dealt with all the stuff and fly, it's like not that much more time. So I figured I'd try the train. Little asterisk, which is that if the Brewers, which have the best record in baseball right now, if they are in the World Series, I got to go to the World Series. So now if they keep things as they are right now, they would be the home team based on their record. And so they would be playing on like the 24th and 25th. And then we could come home on 26th. And then Livewire Con, I think, starts the 28th or 27th or something. Aaron Francis So like it's a little tight. Some real divination going on here. If they have this record, then they'll do this. Ian Landsman That's a little tight. The World Series would take priority for me if there's some conflict there. But I think the way it works out, if he uses the dates he's already talked about, Caleb, then I don't think there's an actual conflict. It's just that they will be right up against each other. But I can work with that. I mean, I couldn't dare you take a boat. How cool would that be? Like some kind of boat across the Great Lakes? Like, that'd be pretty cool. Seems awesome, yeah. I don't think it's going to happen. I don't think that's going to happen. And we would actually have to fly to Chicago. So there's a whole other little thing here because like flying to Milwaukee from here is actually tricky. So, but there's a million flights a day to Chicago and O'Hare is pretty far north. So we could fly to O'Hare and then drive to Milwaukee. It's only like an hour from O'Hare. Aaron Francis There's a lot going on. I'm going to be honest, you lost me a little while back, but that sounds exciting. You're going to go to Wirecon. That's so fun. Are you going to go to Wirecon? How about that? Ian Landsman No. It's in Buffalo. Buffalo in the winter. What could be wrong with that? Aaron Francis It's a great white north. No, it sounds fun. It seems like it'll be a lot of fun. I don't use LiveWire. I'm trying not to travel very much, and it's in the great white north in the winter. It's all stacking up against you. Yeah, that's 0 for 3. But maybe you'd host. Ian Landsman Get you out there hosting. Aaron Francis Yeah, maybe. As a non-LiveWire user, I think I could probably still pull it off pretty well. You could pull it off. Ian Landsman Lots of people host things that they don't know about. Aaron Francis That's the whole thing I'm trying to do is be the host of everything. No, I have no plans, no plans to go. Ian Landsman I will report back if it works out. I think it's cool they're doing it. You know, I'll be curious to see how many people they get to come to Buffalo for LiveWireCon or WireCon or whatever this thing's called. But I think he said, what did he say? Like maybe he's trying to get like 150 or something like that. I think they can pull that off. I think it's doable. I think it's doable. Aaron Francis It's short though, right? It's one day? Ian Landsman Well, I think it's like one day of talks with the second day of something. There's got to be a second day. Aaron Francis If you're going to get Europeans to cross the pond, you've got to give them more than a day. Ian Landsman I think you need the second day just to make people feel like, maybe the second day can be lighter. Aaron Francis Oh, yeah, it could be hackathon, hang fast, whatever. Ian Landsman I don't need the second day, but I think in general, from a conference organizer perspective, you need the second day to make people feel like they can justify the travel expense. Amortize some of those costs. Look at this guy with his big fancy account words. Still got it. I still got it, man. He still got it. Yeah, so I think they did say on one of the podcasts that he, that's the plan. So, yeah, I mean, I think with the Thunk guys running it and, you know, with Caleb, there'll be a lot of wacky antics, which I think will be entertaining. It's going to be a blast. Yeah. Yeah. It's not going to be as buttoned up, I think, as a Laracon, traditional Laracon. So I don't know if Taylor's, I think there was some talk of maybe Taylor going, but I don't know. That'd be cool. I bet goes. I would think he might. If there's no conflict, I bet he goes. Yeah. So that'd be cool if Taylor's there. Yeah. So we'll see. But I'm very excited about that. For a long time, I've wanted to do something like that. So yeah. And it's in my backyard-ish. So I feel like go support team, hang out. Aaron Francis Yeah, you got to go for sure. I'm a live wire man through and through. ([Time 1:12:22](https://share.snipd.com/snip/209848c4-07d7-4831-92fd-1e961cfc3831))