ATG 231: Turning Complicated Into Collaborative With Ryan Leak  ## Metadata - Author: [[All It Takes Is A Goal]] - Full Title: ATG 231: Turning Complicated Into Collaborative With Ryan Leak - Category: #podcasts - URL: https://share.snipd.com/episode/86ad40b1-7fe7-4d0f-b951-a54ad8fd73e0 ## Document Notes ## Highlights - **Celtics Coach Changes Mind** - A Celtics coach initially disliked a challenging player but grew to love him over time. - The coach realized judging someone by an old scouting report was unfair and gave the player space to grow. Transcript: Jon Acuff Yeah, it feels like it allows us to mislabel people faster. I think one of my favorite stories in the book, because you do work with a lot of sports teams, was about the coach who had a difficult guy, challenging guy. There's been stuff in the media. You change his name to Michael Jordan in the book, which I thought was a funny kind of gag. And then you come back a year later and he loves him he's crazy about him walk us through that story because i think i think we sometimes think you know i deal with the most complicated difficult People but other people don't have to and you're seeing it at every level so this level is an nba locker, star player, coach that's frustrated, a year later, different experience. What had changed? Ryan Leak Yeah, so I was working with this NBA team, and we were there for training camp, and we were just having fun. And, you know, as guys are just running up and down, I always love asking whether it's a GM or a coach, like, hey, basically who's going to make the cut? There's usually like 20 guys there, especially during training camp. I'm like, who's not gonna be here in a couple of weeks who's just fighting for their life and who's on a contract here like all of that stuff fascinates me and when they're on a contract Here they play a whole lot harder and so there are people you've never heard of that have shot lights out that i'm like it's the best basketball player i've ever seen they're like yes because He's on a contractor he's just playing hard right now but he wouldn't play that hard in a real game i'm like that's crazy to me and so i was asking him about a bunch of different players and I asked him about a player that's pretty well known i said hey tell me tell me about him he goes i can't stand up i went oh oops like you know maybe maybe i maybe i i pressed the button here i Wasn't supposed to press and and he just starts kind of like grumbling about this guy. And I'm like, I don't know the guy. I can't change his mind on the guy. I can't stick up for the guy. I'm like, he's your player, you know. But, you know, I see my friend probably like four months later and we're just at a lunch in one of the cities they were playing in. And I said, hey, how's it going with, and I changed the name to Michael Jordan because I didn't want to put the real names out there. I said, hey, how's it going, Michael Jordan? He goes, man, you want to know it's crazy? He's my favorite player now. And I was like, what? Like, how did that happen? And he said, man, I realized that there was a scouting report about this guy when he came out of college. And I believe the scouting report. Then he said, Brian, one day I woke up and thought, would I want someone to make a judgment about who I was when I was 18 years old? You think about the decisions I was making when I was 18 years old, you're going to hold me to that standard? It's like, no. And he used this phrase. He said, man, they've grown on me. And I just thought, man, I got to get better at that. I got to give people the space and the margin to grow on me because we've all been told if someone shows you who they are, believe them, which, okay, I understand that. Or the power of a first impression. It's like, yeah, but you've grown in the last five years. So if I made a judgment about who you were based off of the first impression, well, then that's not fair to all of the hard work you've been putting in over the last decade of your life. And so what would it look like for us when it comes to somebody that we might perceive as difficult to say, you know what, I want to give them the space to actually grow on me. So that was something that I think was very important when it comes to working with complicated people. ([Time 0:09:27](https://share.snipd.com/snip/9f97e739-8e4b-4550-8462-1d030b3c0efc)) - **The 'Crazy' in High Performers** - High performers often feel misunderstood and a bit crazy. - This 'healthy loneliness' signals ambition and willingness to push boundaries. Transcript: Ryan Leak I think most high performers have a certain level of crazy that they don't feel understood. High performers have a healthy loneliness. Like if you don't feel a little bit of like, man, am I crazy? Yeah. I don't think you're high perform. There should be a little bit of a – people should be looking at you like, dude, that's not going to work. Yeah. Dude, why would you pitch them? They're never going to say yes. I know this one guy who instead of building the house of his dreams, he thought, what if I built the neighborhood of my dreams? It's like, dude, that's crazy. Until you visit it. You visit it and you go, what? And it is crazy. But now it's just normal. Now you just pull up to it and now you can't live in the neighborhood unless he gives you permission it's like who do you think you are it's like crazy yeah so you you think about anybody That has achieved anything that is beyond your wildest dreams it's like well no it took a little bit it took a little bit of crazy. I was talking with a retired NBA player. He said, Ryan, looking back. I was crazy. I said, well, why do you say that? He goes, who goes to the gym and works out for three hours, goes home to eat lunch and then go back to do it again? He said, that's psychotic. I went, no, no, for sure. He's like, yeah, that's crazy. I was talking with an NFL team the other day, and I'm going to do some leadership stuff with them. I said, hey, what's the day going to look like? They said, hey, it's going to be light, just a four-hour workout day. I said, what? You just used the word light. That's crazy to me. He goes, I mean, it is the NFL. It's like, yeah, you're all. Jon Acuff There's not a bigger league. There's not a higher league. Ryan Leak This is the end of the ladder, dude. Yeah. It's crazy. So I think if you're listening, you're watching today and you have felt crazy, welcome to the arena. It's like, you're right where you're supposed to be. If it's not crazy, it probably won't get you out of bed anyways. I think there needs to be a little bit of a little bit of crazy. ([Time 0:13:46](https://share.snipd.com/snip/6def6a0e-4f12-473a-9f43-cd7a49400eae)) - **Set Boundaries by Saying No** - Respectfully say no to protect your time and boundaries. - Prioritize family and important goals over frequent social meetings or coffee invites. Transcript: Jon Acuff All this stuff. Cause Pete, there's not a lot of speakers probably that listen to this podcast, but there's busy people and anybody who wants to be successful, you're going to be busy. What are some boundaries you've learned to draw? Ryan Leak You know, I've just, I've learned to just respectfully say no. And, which has been very, very hard because I do... I do value spending time with people. It's just, it's just one of those things where it's, I've just had to learn the practice of saying, Hey, no, my calendar's full. And I have sent people my speaking calendar to like, cause some people press it. Like, I mean, come on, you know, I'm just like, no, I'll show it to you. And they'll, they'll actually look at it and they'll see two days open and they'll go, well, what about those days? I'll be like, no, you didn't get the point. It's a, hey, in this season of my family's life, having a 10-year and a six-year any of my free time, like if I've got a free lunch today, I'm going to go up to my kid's school and take them Chick-fil Like that's, that's what I'm going to do with that free lunch. So it's not even that, Hey, I don't, I don't have free time. It's just that I've already decided where that free time is, is going to go. And in light of the goals that I want to accomplish, if I've even got extra free time, it's like, well, then I'm going to write. Yeah. Or work on my next keynote. So I think that there can be an assumption of where there are certain people that they're just normal. They're not bad. It's just, hey, I don't have a normal schedule like maybe i used to and so sometimes what i'll say is just like you said hey i can't meet with you but man i got a flight at four i'll be driving To the airport at three o'clock yeah call me at three hey i'll be in kids carpool pickup line at 245 hey if you if you want to get ahold of me, call me at 245. I'm happy to chat from 245, but can I meet you downtown for a two hour lunch in rush hour? Like now taking up four or five hours of my days. Like I don't, I don't, I don't have that kind of time. And so I just try to be respectful and, and try to, uh, I my attitude in check. Sometimes I feel like disrespect. What do you mean? You don't know? No, I think people are being very normal in that way. And so they're not being bad. But I've had to practice saying no a whole lot because the more successful you become, the more people are going to actually want your time. And dude, it's a good problem. Jon Acuff It's the best problem. Yeah. Ryan Leak Yeah. I love saying you asked for this. Jon Acuff Yeah. Ryan Leak Yeah. The coach, the Celtics coach, like you get to do this. Yeah. It's like when you ask for success, you ask for really good problems. And so it's like, this is like when I decided that I wanted to be good at something, it's like, no, what comes with that territory is people are going to want your time because they want To be successful as well. ([Time 0:27:41](https://share.snipd.com/snip/7aaac1fb-20de-4315-8baa-43669e53901d)) - **Avoid Irrelevance With Honesty** - Successful people often fall due to irrelevance and lack of honest feedback. - Surround yourself with people who give candid feedback and prevent blind spots. Transcript: Jon Acuff What are the things that you go, oh man, here, this is an early sign of smoke. Like there's going to be a big fire. Like the fire's inside the walls right now, the house, eventually it's going to be the whole house. What are you and I have both been around leaders who have fallen companies that have messed up, whatever. I'm always curious about that as a topic. Cause I'm trying not to do it. So like, what is, what are some things you've seen flip side of, I asked you successful people do this. What are people who are successful, but kind of can take some wrong turns? What are the things you see? Two things. Ryan Leak One, one comes from Kerry Newhoff's book. Didn't see it coming. I, you know, he talks about seven of the greatest obstacles and challenges that everyone faces that they don't expect. One of them is irrelevance. They don't see it coming. Jon Acuff Oh, that they become irrelevant? Ryan Leak Yeah. Huh. That, yeah. I mean, it did a great book, by the way. I mean, it's a great read, but irrelevance was the one that I went, oh, man, that. That happens. And they don't see it coming. They think, oh, yeah, the way I've always done it, it's working. They don't even know when it stopped working because they've surrounded themselves with people that are just fans. Which kind of leads into the second thing, which is you just got to have people in your life that are honest with you. You've got to have people in your life that will tell you when you're off, tell you when you're wrong. There's got to be a little bit of a back and forth where there's got to be somebody in your life that doesn't really care how successful you are. That they are willing to tell you, hey, you're flirting with somebody that's not your wife. Hey, man, that's that. I don't know what that little flicker is there, but like, hey, dude, that thing could grow. I would. I would. You've gotten really casual with this person. I think for someone to be able to call you out, Premier has done that for me several times. Hey, man, the client felt like on the pre-event call, like that you were just kind of disengaged. And I'm like, you're right. It was my seventh one of the day. Yeah. And yeah, I was tired. Yeah, dude, that's on me. That's my bad. Like, thanks for calling. And so I had to actually figure out a way to engage those in a way where I can actually stay engaged in the call where they're saying basically the same thing that the last six people said. Jon Acuff And maybe it's that you don't, you have a limit of, I do five a day. I don't go over two. Like, it's like when a pastor does nine sermons in a day, I'm like, homie, some of those suck. Like, let's just be real. You did not do nine home runs. Ryan Leak Like were some bunts in there like you like physically your body had a bunt in you yeah no no question about it yeah i think just being able to have honest people in your circle even when When we do executive coaching when we get with the team dude i'm consistently telling leaders you got a team. They're just not honest with you. What do you mean? Well, they're not like deceiving you, but they're telling you it's going better than it actually is. And here are some of the symptoms. And I can always prove it. Every leader I know had somebody quit and they didn't see it coming. Jon Acuff Ah, they go, good. Ryan Leak What? You're leaving? Yeah. I'm like, I thought you said it was going good. Yeah. Apparently it wasn't going as good as you thought it was. And so there's always this surprise resignation. It's never a surprise to me. I can walk in and go, oh, they'll be gone in a year. I can read the body language. I can tell when it's lip service and when there is a genuine buy-in. And most leaders can't read lip service because it actually sounds good. And they don't want any voice in the room that is contrary to theirs. And so unless they invite honesty to the table, I don't know that they're going to get it. And so I think that that has been the demise of a lot of leaders that just, man, it was their way or the highway. And some people are okay with that for a little bit, but eventually they just go, I can't, I can't be honest with this person. So I think being the kind of leader, being the kind of person that has invited accountability into their life to be able to say, Hey, here are some things where I feel like maybe you phoned It in, or maybe you didn't give your best or, hey, maybe in that book signing, you ignored this person. You know, while there can be a lot going on, it's like we asked for this. And so to be able to take a drink of water, get a little energy drink, whatever it takes. Right. To be able to go, all right, I'm going to I'm going to really give my best because that's what you've been asked to do. It's like, well, okay, but to be able to have some people that can really be honest with you, I think that's the key. ([Time 0:31:25](https://share.snipd.com/snip/90798a89-4c95-4fe3-aa1d-43030ae2ef43)) - **Choose Coaching That Fits You** - Coaching starts with identifying your specific problem. - Choose a coach aligned to your needs; not all coaching fits every individual. Transcript: Jon Acuff Want to get coaching to want to be a coach. What's your, what is, when you say coaching, what's the Ryan Lee coaching? You do group coaching, individual coaching, it's all types. What does coaching mean to you? Ryan Leak We've got a whole roster of coaches that offer different services. It usually just depends on exactly what they're trying to accomplish. What I tell every client is, I need to hear what your problem is to figure out if I can add value to your life. So it's not, it's not a catch all. So one of my clients the other day in 30 minutes, I saved them a quarter of a million dollars. And so it's like, I know I can help you. But there was another person that asked me to work with them three weeks ago. And I just thought, I can't add any value to your business. I don't know your business. I mean, I could give you some leadership stuff, but at the same time, it's not worth my time and your money. And so you're better off just going with somebody else. And so at the Ryan Leak group, you go to ryanleak.com/coaching, and then you have a call with our coaching director and they do a discovery call with you to determine who's going to be The best fit for what your needs are. And if it matches some of my skill sets and can align with my schedule, great. But if you need somebody that really needs to hold your hand through some organizational changes or some new leadership structures or mission, vision and values, I'm probably going To hand that off to somebody else who like that's their exact specialty. Much as I used to because I enjoy doing it the most with professional sports teams because that's one of my lanes. It's one of the verticals that is my specialty. And so I kind of reserve some of those hours and sort of that portion of my business for that, especially during the off season and whatnot. And then again, I think to deliver high value keynotes and it just it requires a whole lot more time than I think people really know. And so while there have been some great people that I can continue to work with, that's one of the areas I've had to say no more to over the past couple of years. I used to be able to have, you know, anywhere from 10 to 15 clients that I could manage personally at once. Now it's about five to six is my max, just because of my time. ([Time 0:37:40](https://share.snipd.com/snip/f619d9c7-a7f9-4246-b104-3253fcd57424)) - **Maintain Health for Performance** - Maintain physical health with regular workouts and tailored supplements. - Track sleep and stress to recover and sustain high performance over time. Transcript: Jon Acuff What are the other things you do from a goal perspective where it's like, man, I know I'm in a healthiest place if I'm working out four times a week, or I make a real priority on sleep. Like, what are the things that you're kind of doing to stay Ryan Leak that aren't related to necessarily writing or speaking or whatever? Ryan Leak No, great question. So I have this, it's called Live Well, which is a blood work centered medical practice where they look at your blood work. And then based off of your specific blood work, they look at, hey, what does your body need the most in the morning and the night? And then they create these supplements of everything you need for your body for that next three months. And so me and my wife both did that about four months ago. So I've been doing that for the last three months. I got a little sick once. Jon Acuff Which is hard, which is something. You're on the road. Ryan Leak Every airplane is gross dude every airplane is full of people just with wet coughs yeah no question about it so it's it's so that's been working uh honestly i try to work out in some way Shape or form every day um i'm just dunking constantly dunking yeah i'm assuming that's what tall guys do all the time i know you saw me in the in the hotel you're like dude did you just get Done playing basketball You look like you've been hooping. But we were out in Gwinnett. Jon Acuff I don't know who you're hooping with at the Westin. Right. I just landed. Ryan Leak I was like, dude, let me get some shorts. I'm about to watch the NBA playoffs. So I've got my Apple Watch. I try to hit my move and exercise goal every single day. Sometimes that's just walking a terminal back and forth. Like it's not fancy. The other thing that I try to do, I have the AG1 athletic greens. Like I take those on the road. So I try to, I try to keep that, keep that going. I walk uphill on a treadmill. Nice. It's pretty standard. I try to go Coke Zero if I'm going to drink a carbonated beverage. And yeah, I'm a lifetime member. Love going to lifetime. Probably go four or five times a week, depending on where I'm at and if there's a lifetime in the city that I'm at. But I'm not like religious with it. It's more of a constant practice of going, man, let's get our steps in. Let's get our body moving and let's not turn into a couch potato in the process. And the other thing I do is I measure my sleep with an O-ring. And so I've had that probably for the last three or four years. And so I look at my sleep score every single morning. There's a stress score on there as well. There's a readiness, almost like how much did your body recharge? And you can tell by what you ate the night before all of those things really really matter and so so those are things that that i do to to take care of my body for sure did you learn the live Jon Acuff Well from like an nba player or somebody like how'd you get connected to that uh great question just a mutual friend i will i will say being a mutual friend james harden be honest is it james Ryan Leak Harden just blink if it's okay and no you're too humble i know you're always hanging out with some of these guys but yeah yeah that's funny no there was a there was a mutual friend that told My wife about it actually at first and then she went and just raved about it and then there's there's a lot of places that do kind of this executive health check type of stuff. There's, you know, longevity stuff. I actually have a call later today with a longevity specialist that just tries to optimize your body for your life to live long. But I would say being around professional sports, you do realize like what they do for their bodies to be elite. It's really not a secret sauce. It's like, no, they they stretch a lot. The older you get, the more mobile you need to be. You need to be aware of. And so I definitely woke up one day, I think it was December of 2022 or 2023, and my back it went out. And I hadn't worked in two weeks. I was at an NBA game with my son chilling. And all of a sudden I couldn't walk. And that was a wake up call for me where it was like, no, dude, you got to have, if you want to be elite and be able to do this thing for the long you really have to take care of your body at a at A pretty high level you have to recover you have to if you if you saw my little uh trunk at the foot of my bed it's got way too many gadgets in there massage guns i've probably bands stretching Bands oh bro the leg compression shorts the for the hips for for all of the things and so um but man that's that's that's what it takes to to do what i do at a high level at least so so we try to Stay in in a decent amount of shape we try to take walks after dinner as a family. It's kind of a new practice that we've been doing, just, you know, take a stroll around the neighborhood, but just trying to stay active. Dude, I got two young boys. They don't stop. And so even if I don't go to the gym and I just pick them up from school, I'm going to hit my move goal just from being a dad. Totally. ([Time 0:40:24](https://share.snipd.com/snip/602ff792-d853-4f1c-a2e9-8394275d62ca)) - **Ryan's Top Book Recommendations** - Ryan Leak’s Mount Rushmore of books includes communication and leadership classics. - Sarah Knight’s profane but practical writing stands out as a unique resource. Transcript: Jon Acuff Given that away to a lot of people like stephen pressfield it's one of my favorite books what's what's kind of on your list great great question uh didn't see it coming by carrying yeah Ryan Leak You mentioned that one yeah yeah i i recommend that one a lot uh 16 laws of communication john maxwell very very solid um One of the books, one of my favorite authors, I should say, is Sarah Knight. Do you read any of Sarah Knight's stuff? Jon Acuff I don't think so. Ryan Leak Sarah Knight is a brilliant writer. All of her books are profane, no question about it. They all grow the F up, calm the F down. But what she does in her books is actually pretty genius. She is, I'm surprised, well, I know why she's not as popular, probably because of profanity, but she has some remarkable, tools that that i think man if i was sitting in her audience that Helped me yeah so so she's somebody that i quietly sarah knight all right dude that's a new one i've asked a lot of people that question i'm pumped i'll go discover some new books sarah And i and again i discovered her in in an airport i was just walking through one of those little bookstores and she had four or five books there. I'll check her out. That's good. Yeah. Then I'm just looking at my library here. I would say Soundtracks by John Acuff. Yeah, that seems like I'm compliment farming. Yeah. Entre Leadership by Dave Ramsey is pretty solid, too. Oh, nice. Yeah, totally. Totally. Yeah, I love that one, too. So, yeah, those would be on my Mount Rushmore. ([Time 0:46:30](https://share.snipd.com/snip/c273fb73-1453-419c-bb14-0355d8b656ab)) - **NBA Finals Prediction** - Ryan predicts Celtics vs Thunder in NBA Finals with Celtics winning in six games. - He notes Nuggets' grueling schedule and Warriors' injury as key factors. Transcript: Jon Acuff But NBA Finals, who's in there eastern western and you probably have friends on both sides so if that's a hard question that's too bad i guess oh man finals and and i right now it's up for Grabs i feel like it's really up for grabs this year, but. Ryan Leak Dude, that's tough. I mean, I think all eight teams left are solid in some way, shape, or form. I'm going to go Celtics from the East. Jon Acuff Let's go. You know, I grew up in Massachusetts. Like that answer. You did? Yeah, I grew up in Massachusetts. Larry Bird, let's go. Ryan Leak Yeah, I'm going to go Celtics. I think when they're engaged, nobody's beating them. Yeah. But the key to beating them is to get them disengaged. Jon Acuff They're in a hole right now. The Knicks got them in a hole. Ryan Leak I think they are head and shoulders much better than the Knicks. When, again, when they're engaged, when they lock in, I mean, they've got one through five who can guard you. Yeah. They can switch every play. You know, it's like the Knicks have Jalen Brunson and Cat. Yeah. And Mikel Bridges, who is a great guy. But, I mean, he's not going to go for 40. Yeah. You know, although he has. He has. I know Mikel. He's so I better be nice to Michael. Um, so, but I got Celtics. I got, I got Celtics. East coast. Yeah. East coast dude. Out West. Jokic is tired. Jon Acuff My, my man, my man, my man has been in the field, man. He needs to be on some horses and recovering. Ryan Leak Well, dude, what most people don't realize is the schedule has been every other day this series, and it wasn't that way in the first series. Yeah, most people don't realize they basically are playing back to back, and when they switch cities, they don't get an extra day. They just fly out that night, get in at 3 a.m., and they kind of sleep in. And so their rhythm is thrown off. And then you go to Denver and Elevation and all of those changes. It's a grueling schedule for them. And then with the Warriors, it just depends on Steph's health, and I don't think he's coming back. I don't. Jon Acuff So you think the Nuggets or the Wolves? Ryan Leak I think it's going to be Thunder Celtics. Thunder Celtics. Okay. Okay. I do. I think it'll be Thunder Wolves, but I think the Thunder just, they've got a swagger. They've got youth. And right now the old guys are just banged up. They've got more experience. I mean, the Warriors easily could. They have the maturity to do so, but I just don't think they've got the legs and the health to pull it off this year. So I'm going to go Celtics-Thunder, and I got Celtics in six. ([Time 0:48:40](https://share.snipd.com/snip/7a28fa31-bc19-4c8f-bddd-4cae7ee38b6c))