Accessibility, Fiber Arts, and ADHD With Abbey Perini  ## Document Notes ## Highlights - **Rescuing Confidence With Git Mental Models** - Abbey found a narrative for her Git talk that reassures developers they can recover lost commits. - Clear mental models reduce panic and make advanced Git tasks approachable. Transcript: Bethany Janos To kick us off, I'm really curious. What's one thing that you're currently building or obsessed with learning right now? So I have, I'm giving a talk and a workshop at Codemesh in January. Abbey Perini So I'm having to prep all of that content right now. And I think I've finally found the narrative in my Restoring Lost Work Git talk. It's the whole series of talks and blogs is titled hashtag Git panic because that's the inside joke that came up when I was learning git you know it's always trying to give you a heart attack And so this talk is really near and dear to my heart because we've all like if we've tried to do something fancy and get accidentally deleted a commit and been like my life is over this is It it's over and I think this talk will give people a lot more confidence in knowing that 99.9 percent of the time you can always get that commit back and you, you know, it's really boring When you stand up in front of people and just run command after command after command and be like, you can do this. These are things you can do on your computer. So I'm glad to have finally found the narrative and I'm hoping the audience at Codemesh likes it. ([Time 0:01:20](https://share.snipd.com/snip/83d8e483-5957-4ffb-b0c5-025f6764b862)) - **Textiles Shaped Computing's Language** - Abbey traces computing's roots to textile tools like Jacquard looms and sees deep ties between fiber arts and programming. - Patterns, charts, and abstraction in knitting mirror programming concepts like variables and loops. Transcript: Bethany Janos Awesome. Well, speaking of building things, as mentioned, you are a fiber artist and have been crocheting and knitting for a while. Yeah. My gosh, I didn't even notice. For listeners, Abby's background has so much yarn. That is amazing. And then a pile of unfinished projects, as you do, you know. Of course. Yes, that's how it goes. So I really loved, while researching, reading your blog post called Knitting as Programming. And you mentioned that programmers owe it all to Fiber. That was kind of the subtitle. So since you've been doing Fiber since 2013, I'm curious like when that connection really was established as you were learning to program? Abbey Perini So I started learning to program in 2020 and I kind of timed it so that accidentally I committed to a bootcamp right when lockdown started. So I was in the staffing industry and nobody was hiring, everybody was panicking. So I basically was getting paid to learn to code for several months. And when I started doing boot camp, obviously the learning curve jacks up and it's like you're drinking from a fire hose. I would not pick up a knitting or crochet project during boot camp at all. Like I would just like stare at it and be like, nah, not today. Like the entire part of your brain that is used to figure out like a new stitch like follow a pattern or anything like that is so similar to coding that after doing it for, you know, eight, 10 hours a day, I was like, that's not relaxing to me anymore. That's, I can't do it. So there's a sharp decline in my fiber arts. And that's when, like, right after I finished boot camp, I was like, huh, that's kind of, like, weird. Like, I wonder if anybody else has made this connection. And then that article was just, like, the beginning of it for me. I have talked to, I was, like, at Netlify Compose at the after parties being like, guys, what about, like, knitting and programming? And two, like, researchers were like, you mean computational knitting? And I was like, great, there's another term. Awesome. And so I even through some personal life stuff, met someone who taught fiber arts at the Chicago Institute of Art. And so I've got some new articles and stuff for my workshop at CodeMash, which is fiber arts and programming. So I'll be talking about that relationship and also teaching people to crochet and knit. ([Time 0:02:39](https://share.snipd.com/snip/32c18ffb-2a00-4d2d-85a8-039a6618a670)) - **Teach Abstractions Like Knitting Patterns** - Teach programming the way knitting patterns teach: introduce symbols, keys, and small abstractions first. - Use concrete examples and mapping to help learners form usable mental models instead of assuming math familiarity. Transcript: Abbey Perini So I'd say knitting has been trying to figure out, like the knitting community has been trying to figure out the best way to teach beginners how to get into these extremely complicated Knitting patterns. Because especially, I know some of y'all crochet I'm not sure if you've ever attempted to knit a sweater but like just trying to get the 3d shape to go to different sizes and like how the Stitches work out and stuff like that is a lot of math and a lot of physics and at like a tiny scale often and so they'll have to have these very abstract charts and lists of stitches and stuff Like that. Just for the crocheters, knitting charts and crocheting charts are two completely different things. And I've talked to like knitters who never crocheted and they're like, what? It's like arcane magic. Like, I don't understand like the T's going off of each. What is happening there? And then I look at knitting charts and I'm like I just can't keep track of where I am in this grid I bought all the things with the magnets that like help you keep track and like all that stuff And it does not help at all so I often stick to just the written out like stitches and those I'm able to remember and that the way that at the beginning you get like the key for all the different Abbreviations that they're going to use. And then eventually your brain maps it to like essentially variables. And then you're sitting there with little like for and while loops. Like this is both knitting and crochet. The way that people are taught these patterns is a lot more accessible often than the way that we're taught for loops and while loops in programming especially like i i can do statistics I can't do math and i have a complicated relationship and like to illustrate that i had to look up what the sum symbol was again like two years ago and my math friends are like are you kidding And I'm like, I knew what it was at some point, but like, I try to avoid math. So I don't remember what the symbols are. And when people start talking about explaining programming with math, they're not like, okay, so here are the symbols you're going to need to know. Here's how, here's like a few basic concepts before we really get into it. They're like, surely you're familiar with monotonic functions and that's going to explain everything that I'm talking about in the rest of this article. And I'm like, no, it really does not. So there's an interesting overlap in like how the pattern communities have thought about communication and those soft skills that often are downplayed in like a technical standpoint. ([Time 0:06:12](https://share.snipd.com/snip/ec8dd5ec-8ff6-4ac0-aa63-a9022b5f4606)) - **Accessibility Extends Beyond The Front End** - Abbey argues accessibility touches every layer: UI, cognitive flows, backend data and developer onboarding. - Structuring data and consistent naming helps both developers and users by reducing cognitive load. Transcript: Brittany Ellich So I wanted to talk a little bit to you about accessibility, because I know that that is another topic that you are quite prolific and you've done a lot of blog posts and talks and everything Advocating for the accessibility community, which is just awesome. One of the blog posts, we'll link it as well, is about how web development is equal to accessibility. I'm curious, after looking through that, like, do you think that since you're a full stack developer, like, is accessibility only a front end concern? Or like, are there accessibility concerns that folks that you have to think about on the back end as well? Abbey Perini So that blog is my, my, like, spicy hot take. That's my only spicy hot take blog where I'm just like, if you're not thinking about accessibility, you're technically incorrect. I don't know how to explain to you that you're not thinking about people and you should care about people. So I'm just going to go straight for the nerd snipe. OK. And I finally did give that as a talk recently and I thought it was pretty fun. But accessibility, a lot of people think, OK, so it's the front end. It's the buttons. It's the color contrast. It's what you click, can you click it, can you do keyboard, can you do screen reader, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But a lot of times people don't think about like cognitive accessibility. So creating these archaic flows where you like, the thing that is driving me nuts right now is when you go to a form and you type in your username, and then it waits a second and then pops Up the password box and then you have to click it again and auto-complete it again because I use auto-complete for everything because I have ADHD. I cannot remember anything and I am a web developer so I have to have random passwords. I have to auto-complete and it'll be like, okay, why are we doing that? Is it because it's two back-end calls? Like, do we need to like deal with the backend? So it's not that much. And then there's also the data layer. I'm in another book club, not an overcommitted book club. I'm sorry. That's reading like data driven, designing data driven, data intensive applications. That's the one by Martin Kleppman. And it's talking about, you know, the way that you structure data and like the tools that you use for data and stuff like that and I find that especially developers often forget about Things like documentation being about accessibility and equity and bringing in new developers and letting them get onboarded all in the same way and give feedback on the onboarding Process and getting them up to speed in a way that isn't sink or swim. So it can be everything from the tools you choose and making sure that everybody on the team knows how to use those tools, as well as the way that you're designing the backend to create The flows on the front end and the way that you're designing your data structure for the developers. Because I've had conversations where people don't even think about it being an accessibility thing but like the data structure being the same in this app and this app in the same company Is actually better for all of us from a development standpoint but also from an accessibility standpoint because if I can remember one schema and validation and stuff like that I don't Have to remember that oh yeah this one over here has a slightly different tweak or like this one's supervisor and this one's trainer when they're both have to be supervisors. So we might as well just call them supervisors and stuff like that. So it boils, it boils over into everything. ([Time 0:11:04](https://share.snipd.com/snip/b38a70d2-ab97-41e7-89b8-16d136e9ffad)) - **Ship Small Accessibility Wins Fast** - Prioritize accessibility improvements incrementally and without asking permission when possible. - Small semantic fixes often make interfaces easier for everyone and improve usability metrics. Transcript: Abbey Perini This company, my, one of the higher ups was known for saying like, I don't care about screen readers. And I was like I can't wait for him to say this in a call with me this is gonna be great this is gonna be a great time and then I wrote the densest article about Aria like it is 75 people had read It like it was not like it's so long and it's only for the people who actually are like I need to know the answer to this or my fellow accessibility advocates who I had them read it multiple Times to make sure that all the information was correct. And like, I don't know why this was the thing that changed his mind. But all of a sudden he was like, well, you know, when you put it that way, like it really makes more sense. Like if it's from a structural standpoint, you can provide all of this information with HTML. And I was like, what? Why was this the, thank you for reading my article. But why was this the thing that you got nerdsnaped by ARIA of all things? Like that's, that's the weirdest thing. And I think the other thing was, again, I don't ask permission. And every time I made something more accessible, it worked better. And like our, our whole thing is that the user with the least technical information should be able to use our website without like having to ask for help, without needing tool tips. Like ideally they should be able to look at it and know exactly what button they need to hit next, which is a challenge. But every time I tackled one of those problems and made it more accessible, it was much easier to use. ([Time 0:15:00](https://share.snipd.com/snip/c5984a8e-dca8-47b1-98c0-0598c424991b)) - **Teach Assistive Tech To Those Who Need It** - Share assistive-technology knowledge with nontechnical relatives and colleagues. - Teach simple features like voice control and screen readers so more people can use devices independently. Transcript: Abbey Perini Semantic html instead of 30 lines with like weird javascript the other thing i wanted to say is like as people who are technically literate, we understand things more than the average Person when it comes to interacting with technology, especially if you start learning about mobile accessibility, which I was lucky enough to get to do in my last job. There are so many things when like your parents get older, your grandparents, people who come get something like MS and start losing the ability to do fine motor skills and stuff. You can be a resource for them talking about like, oh, you can you can just talk to your computer and it will type for you. Stuff like that. They don't even know that that's a possibility. They don't know about its talk back on Android and voiceover on iPhone, just like it's voiceover on Mac OS. And the day I knew that my dad actually understood my job was when he came to me and he was like, you know, my friend's wife has advanced MS and she's just asking Siri to use her phone. Is there something else that she could be doing? And so I and my coworkers at the time drew up this whole list of things. And just like, you know, the fact that there are different ways that you can use your mouth to interact with a computer, you can have a stick, you can have a straw, there are like multiple Different assistive technologies that you can use. And that kind of information, once you start to build it up, people really need that, because they that it isn't like offered up, there's no course teaching you how to use technology. ([Time 0:17:20](https://share.snipd.com/snip/b8ad81d8-0b59-4044-8b0a-4ffdd9ca0fb4)) - **Make Controls Both Pretty And Accessible** - Design pretty UI controls that still meet accessibility standards; aesthetics and accessibility can coexist. - Provide alternatives for animations and ensure focus and tooltips work for keyboard users. Transcript: Abbey Perini So my second spicy hot take we're really spicy hot taken on this podcast is that if you say that something can't be pretty unaccessible you're not trying hard enough or you need to get Better or one of those two and shout out to chris bongers for the design for the dark mode toggle that's on my portfolio site and that series where i went and audited that toggle specifically Because it came up was part of a six-part blog series on auditing my own portfolio site that is what got me the job at a digital accessibility company like i saw the post and i went please I have i have blog posts i have so many look at these. And they were like, okay, yeah, we need someone passionate. And that all started because of my friend who I am very lucky to know, Todd Libby, who is known for lobsters and accessibility. And he possibly in the other order, maybe he did a lunch and learn in a networking group I was part of. And he went through how he would look at somebody's website when he was auditing it. So he went through all of the tools that he would use. And then a lot of it after that was manual stuff. So there were also guides for all of the manual testing. And so I went through the whole process on my website and then identified all of the things that I wanted to fix. And the dark mode toggle was one of those things. And I think the title of that one was like accessible dark mode toggle. And that's how I met Graham, who really, he started with a comment that it had headings, like it was formatted, like there, it was a lot. And I was like, buddy, and then we both thought we had insulted each other. ([Time 0:20:11](https://share.snipd.com/snip/6cc3e26e-88ca-4400-85df-b57c8c946450)) - **Calling Out Bad Alt Text Cost Oatly Sales** - Abbey publicly called out Oatly for using joke alt text and stopped buying their oat milk in response. - She used email feedback to try to educate the company about why alt text matters. Transcript: Abbey Perini Which is why I think Blue Sky's push for alt text is one of the most fun things that I've gotten to witness. Because I've been doing alt text for a long time on Discord, on Slack, on... And it's such a pain in the butt on Instagram. Not that I have an Instagram anymore. But there are a lot of times where it's like really, really difficult. And Blue Sky has the setting where it'll remind you if you don't add alt text to an image. And that has been so great because like, I don't have to remember that piece anymore. I just get to sit down and like describe the image. And if you aren't having fun thinking about the alt text for your image, I challenge you to go write alt text for a bunch of memes, like a ton of memes, because I use a lot of memes in my blog. So I've had to do a lot of summaries that are like, you know, okay, the stick figure is sitting at the desk. What is the stick figure sitting at the desk trying to like describe? Okay, all right, maybe I don't need to talk about his desk sitting. Maybe I just need to talk about this part of the image and then giggling at my own description of the image and hoping that someone comes along and like also giggles too it's it's more fun Bethany Janos To include everybody is what i've found wait can i go on a rant about alt text and oatly yeah the uh oat milk thing all right um i'm excited to tell the story because it makes me truly upset But one time i was scrolling Reddit and Oatly had an ad, like whatever, but they were using the alt text as like memeing. They were like, oh, Reddit said we have to use alt text, but isn't that boring? So instead we'll just like, like basically make making fun of alt text. And I was like, like people were roasting them in the comments. I'm like, maybe like somebody needs to know about this and that it's actually truly like a terrible thing. So I emailed them. I emailed their like corporate communication. So I was like, hey, this is really bad, actually. Like these are the reasons you should care about accessibility, about all text, like why it's important, why it's good for everyone. And they emailed back and they doubled down. They were like, no, don't you think it's like kind of dumb and kind of like unfortunate? So to this day, every time I go to a coffee shop, I'm like, what brand of oat milk do you use? And if it's Oatly, I don't, I don't use it. I'm like, all right, whole milk's great. I'll take it. But with your wallet. Exactly. Exactly. So, so Oatly is terrible. ([Time 0:23:06](https://share.snipd.com/snip/dba79299-21d0-4f02-a9d7-36f687ce618b)) - **Patient Portals Revealed Simple Accessibility Bugs** - Abbey, a cancer survivor, found many patient portals were murky and produced basic accessibility failures. - She diagnosed issues like username transformations by probing and filing priority tickets with support. Transcript: Abbey Perini So I'm a, I'm a cancer survivor. And one of the things that that involves is talking to a lot of people and going through a lot of portals and doing a lot of things that can be very cognitively accessible. Murky is the best thing I can say. And there was one time where I called a charity and I do think that they were trying, so I'm not going to name them. But like, when I called, I like left this feedback and then I got this call and I was talking to her and she was like, well, we do have accessibility testing. And I was like, OK, well, I think you need to look at that accessibility testing because like an automated tool caught all of this. Like this is not it's like color contrast. Like I don't I don't know. It's really basic stuff. And they were like. But one of the other things was, so MyChart is a common app that medical institutions will use. And you kind of get, it's one of the things where I think they have a different implementation for each system. Like when you set it all up, like maybe you're hosting your own backend or something like that. I don't know. But all I know is I typed in a username and it changed my username without telling me on the backend. Took off a letter and made it all caps. And I figured it out because I know how to sit there and be like, forgot password. What does it mean that username doesn't exist? And like tried them in combinations and figure out what happened. And I was on the phone with one of their, like, I don't know if it was patient advocacy or like specifically to the setup of this tool. And I was describing what happened. And she just went, I never would have figured that out. We can't doing that it's like yes you can't just change the username without telling the person they were like I'm gonna put in a priority ticket for that one I was like thank you or like Just sometimes just sitting with like customer service people and they'll be talking about like I'm so sorry the system is acting so weird I'm like you don't have to explain anything To me we'll be here until the technology starts working again. ([Time 0:25:21](https://share.snipd.com/snip/02f33f60-12e7-4ef6-8042-b53bdcc08628)) - **ADHD Needs Systems, Not Platitudes** - Abbey rejects the blanket 'ADHD is a superpower' line and emphasizes real support systems and accommodations. - Recognizing limits, using tools, and lowering self-expectations made her life manageable and productive. Transcript: Abbey Perini Uh the joke you guys are bringing out all my spicy hot takes i swear i have like three and it's all three of them but anytime anybody tells me that adhd is a superpower I'm looking them in The eyes, maybe, and I'm thinking, so who is running your life? Is it a wife? Is it a partner? Is it a mom? Like, is that who's making sure that you make it to appointments? Who's making sure you make appointments? Who's making sure that you like have some sort of structure to your day? And like, it's amazing how the difference between like going into an office and having that externally enforced structure and then having to do it yourself at home remote. Because I think a lot of people got diagnosed because lockdown happened and they were like, where's someone telling me that I have to be somewhere by 8 a.m.? Like that's I don't have to do that anymore. I'm just pajamas all day. So I got diagnosed at 28 and I didn't get diagnosed because I was failing at school or anything. I've always been good at school because of the externally enforced structure and the little rewards. Oh, you get an A. Okay, I'll do anything for an A. Let's do that. But like once it came to like wedding planning was a really like I thought I was losing my mind during wedding planning and then remote work and just getting so hyper focused on coding Because I love coding and I want to be in the puzzle and like I'll just try one more thing and then eight hours have gone by and I haven't eaten drank done anything which one of the things I found through an ADHD coach that I've been really helping with that is physical Pomodoro timers so um when it goes off you can just flip it to set it to the next amount of time. And even if I don't get up, I at least know how much time is passing versus just being like, I'm full in. So the things, the reasons that I got diagnosed were more intangible than is usually the reasons that you go in. It was me being like, I feel like I'm bad at things. I'm struggling so hard. I'm trying so hard all the time just to do the things that everybody else seems to be able to do normally. Like the grocery store is very difficult for me. So it was really like, first it was a trickle of like memes. There was a meme about hyperactivity in adults that sounds, it was like almost constantly singing a song. Can't sit still. Likes to fidget with a lot of things. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And the fidgeting I had internalized to chewing my lip. It wasn't as like noticeable but I showed it to my husband and he looked at the list and he was like hmm and I was like yeah that's kind of sounds like me right and then he's he got diagnosed In college because he described what was going on with him to me and I was like that sounds like ADHD and it turned out a doctor in like his in like middle school told his mom that he couldn't Have ADHD because his teachers liked him so we've come a long way in like the description of what ADHD is but my brother got diagnosed young and we we laugh now because we think and act so Similarly so similarly the signs were all there the like complaints about how I tell stories the fact that I couldn't sit still the fact that i have to try really hard not to interrupt People and like taking struggling to take turns uh i love running dnd i love being a dungeon master but balder's gate you would have to bribe me to start again because you have to wait on Everybody else's turn like you can't even you can't even make a dice tower or do anything with your like you just have to sit there with a controller in your hand while other people are Taking their turn. And it's the one thing that I don't like about playing D&D. My friend who's a DM, like knows that I'll just pull out knitting in the middle of D&D and then I'll be, I'll be better. I'll be paying more attention if I'm knitting. It's okay. And like when I was in school, teachers were like, would you stop drawing? And like would try to ask me questions to show that I wasn't paying attention. But then I would answer the questions. So they were like, fine, you can draw, whatever. You be you. And there were a lot of things that were keeping me going during up through 12th grade, sleep deprivation, caffeine. And then I got to college and it was just easier than my previous schooling. So I managed to get through that. But by the end of the college, like I couldn't finish a book anymore. Like I was really burnt out on school and like trying so hard and all of that kind of stuff. So when I finally sat down and I had gotten diagnosed with anxiety erroneously, because that's usually women are like, I'm struggling with all these things. I mean, you're really anxious about things. I'm that worried about other than like the outcome if it doesn't get done, which is normal. That seems like a normal thing to be anxious about. And so I sat down and I took the questionnaire that you can find them online. It's what a psychiatrist will give you if you go to get diagnosed. And it basically asked questions like, you know, do you find yourself getting out of your seat in situations where you're supposed to be sitting down like meetings? Do you find yourself struggling to not interrupt people? Do you struggle with this? Do you struggle with this? And I think like the max score is like 21 and I got like 17 or something. And I was sitting there just staring at this piece of paper. And I was like, oh, and because my brother and my husband had already been diagnosed a long time and we had looked at a bunch of different, you know, the Pomodoro method and this and that, And he can't do gamification. If he knows it's gamified, he's like, no, I'm out. So that doesn't work for him. But I was like, I can apply all of these things to my own life. People are like, you're so organized. I'm like, because I have 18 systems working in tandem, and if one of them falls out, then like everything spirals out of control, and I have to go like integrate them back in and like add Another tool like, oh, this one's shiny. It might be Notion or Obsidian. And then I've also got the bullet journal and i've got this and i've got that and there all of that is because i eventually just stopped expecting myself to remember things i stopped expecting Myself to act in situations like other people would act i stopped expecting all of these things out of myself i stopped expecting myself to be neurotypical and I was able to set a lot of Things down. And suddenly my life became a lot easier because up until then, there would be times where I would be like on the floor just crying, going like, I'm trying so hard. And my husband would be like, I just wish people could see how hard you're trying. You're trying so hard. Yeah, you're doing it. You're doing great. But like, once you sit there and start being like, okay, well, I'm going to have to sit still for a while. Let's make sure I have a silent fidget toy near me so that it's not like making noise and people aren't like disturbed by it. But I am able to sit there and not chew my lip and like try to focus on what's happening and writing everything down instead of expecting myself to remember it. And all of these things, it really like more than feeling like I am now labeled as disabled because ADHD is considered a disability, a cognitive disability. It showed me how many tools there are that I can have even without expecting my employer to like give me more time to do things or like having to ask for accommodations or anything like That. Just the small things where like object permanence is hard. So if I want to remember something exists, it has to be like in a place that I go to regularly where I can see it. Like those little things start to add up and suddenly you're like, wow, my life is more designed for me. ([Time 0:27:51](https://share.snipd.com/snip/ae8e7d7d-4302-48d6-8848-cfe9cbb61fe4)) - **Build Visible Systems For ADHD Success** - Use practical strategies: Pomodoro timers, visible systems, medication, and ADHD coaching to build habits. - Break tasks into visible, repeatable steps and place reminders where you'll see them regularly. Transcript: Abbey Perini And even if I don't get up, I at least know how much time is passing versus just being like, I'm full in. So the things, the reasons that I got diagnosed were more intangible than is usually the reasons that you go in. It was me being like, I feel like I'm bad at things. I'm struggling so hard. I'm trying so hard all the time just to do the things that everybody else seems to be able to do normally. Like the grocery store is very difficult for me. So it was really like, first it was a trickle of like memes. There was a meme about hyperactivity in adults that sounds, it was like almost constantly singing a song. Can't sit still. Likes to fidget with a lot of things. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And the fidgeting I had internalized to chewing my lip. It wasn't as like noticeable but I showed it to my husband and he looked at the list and he was like hmm and I was like yeah that's kind of sounds like me right and then he's he got diagnosed In college because he described what was going on with him to me and I was like that sounds like ADHD and it turned out a doctor in like his in like middle school told his mom that he couldn't Have ADHD because his teachers liked him so we've come a long way in like the description of what ADHD is but my brother got diagnosed young and we we laugh now because we think and act so Similarly so similarly the signs were all there the like complaints about how I tell stories the fact that I couldn't sit still the fact that i have to try really hard not to interrupt People and like taking struggling to take turns uh i love running dnd i love being a dungeon master but balder's gate you would have to bribe me to start again because you have to wait on Everybody else's turn like you can't even you can't even make a dice tower or do anything with your like you just have to sit there with a controller in your hand while other people are Taking their turn. And it's the one thing that I don't like about playing D&D. My friend who's a DM, like knows that I'll just pull out knitting in the middle of D&D and then I'll be, I'll be better. I'll be paying more attention if I'm knitting. It's okay. And like when I was in school, teachers were like, would you stop drawing? And like would try to ask me questions to show that I wasn't paying attention. But then I would answer the questions. So they were like, fine, you can draw, whatever. You be you. And there were a lot of things that were keeping me going during up through 12th grade, sleep deprivation, caffeine. And then I got to college and it was just easier than my previous schooling. So I managed to get through that. But by the end of the college, like I couldn't finish a book anymore. Like I was really burnt out on school and like trying so hard and all of that kind of stuff. So when I finally sat down and I had gotten diagnosed with anxiety erroneously, because that's usually women are like, I'm struggling with all these things. I mean, you're really anxious about things. I'm that worried about other than like the outcome if it doesn't get done, which is normal. That seems like a normal thing to be anxious about. And so I sat down and I took the questionnaire that you can find them online. It's what a psychiatrist will give you if you go to get diagnosed. And it basically asked questions like, you know, do you find yourself getting out of your seat in situations where you're supposed to be sitting down like meetings? Do you find yourself struggling to not interrupt people? Do you struggle with this? Do you struggle with this? And I think like the max score is like 21 and I got like 17 or something. And I was sitting there just staring at this piece of paper. And I was like, oh, and because my brother and my husband had already been diagnosed a long time and we had looked at a bunch of different, you know, the Pomodoro method and this and that, And he can't do gamification. If he knows it's gamified, he's like, no, I'm out. So that doesn't work for him. But I was like, I can apply all of these things to my own life. People are like, you're so organized. I'm like, because I have 18 systems working in tandem, and if one of them falls out, then like everything spirals out of control, and I have to go like integrate them back in and like add Another tool like, oh, this one's shiny. It might be Notion or Obsidian. And then I've also got the bullet journal and i've got this and i've got that and there all of that is because i eventually just stopped expecting myself to remember things i stopped expecting Myself to act in situations like other people would act i stopped expecting all of these things out of myself i stopped expecting myself to be neurotypical and I was able to set a lot of Things down. And suddenly my life became a lot easier because up until then, there would be times where I would be like on the floor just crying, going like, I'm trying so hard. And my husband would be like, I just wish people could see how hard you're trying. You're trying so hard. Yeah, you're doing it. You're doing great. But like, once you sit there and start being like, okay, well, I'm going to have to sit still for a while. Let's make sure I have a silent fidget toy near me so that it's not like making noise and people aren't like disturbed by it. But I am able to sit there and not chew my lip and like try to focus on what's happening and writing everything down instead of expecting myself to remember it. And all of these things, it really like more than feeling like I am now labeled as disabled because ADHD is considered a disability, a cognitive disability. It showed me how many tools there are that I can have even without expecting my employer to like give me more time to do things or like having to ask for accommodations or anything like That. ([Time 0:29:26](https://share.snipd.com/snip/b2dee7b7-6ef7-486b-b511-9c3b525dbbd6)) - **Request Practical Workplace Accommodations** - Ask employers for legal accommodations using resources like Ask Jan when you need workplace changes. - Negotiate for flexibility and communicate that you can solve hard problems to build trust and job security. Transcript: Abbey Perini And I thought I had like really cured a lot of that. And I'm, I'm a big people who do negative self-talk in front of me and I'll be like, no, no, we are great. We're dandy. Do not say those things. And, uh, you know, it's just like a lot of shoulds. Should I, I should be doing this. Why should I be doing that? Oh, I don't know. Cause well, is it serving you? Like we don't need to do that. And then there's a website called Ask Jan, J-A And it will tell you all the accommodations you can ask your employer for. So if you have a disability or have been thinking, you know, like, is there anything that could make my life better at work with what I have, ADHD, whatever, there is a list of things by Disability that you can ask your employer for legally. And so I find that helps a lot of people think about what they need at work. Mine is a lot of flexibility, which they're willing to give me, so I haven't had to ask for it. It's definitely, you'll find that when you're the kind of person who knows that if you're handed a problem, you'll be able to solve it. That really opens a lot of doors for you as an employee. Because if you become known as the person where like, oh, this is really tough, Abby will just figure it out. ([Time 0:36:43](https://share.snipd.com/snip/61056cad-d282-47a8-afd5-c4190f3b06be)) - **Side Projects Blend Practical Skills And Play** - Abbey built playful projects like a Discord dog-photo bot and a wedding 'save the date' fruit reveal for her sister. - These small creative projects stretch her skills and feed her joy outside work. Transcript: Bethany Janos So I can kick it off. It was tough for me to think of something because I am just not front end minded, unfortunately. And I feel I'm trying, I'm trying. But I feel like it's if you code something dumb on the back end, it's like a production issue waiting to happen or something. So, but the thing I came up with is it's still a thing now, but there's a website called Battlesnake where you basically program an API to play competitive snake with other people. It's amazing. It's awesome. And so that's probably I had a months long fixation on on this project. And I was just like throwing everything at the snake. I'm like, how can I make it perform? And how can I make this better than everyone else's? And it never was very good. But I was very about building the best snake that I could. Erika I feel like I've never finished any of my dumb projects. Because at some point I realized that they're dumb and then I stopped. But I did get about like halfway through creating like an Exploding Kittens game, like an online Exploding Kittens, which I'm remembering now and like it actually feels less dumb now Brittany Ellich And feels like something I would pick up again um and yeah that fun fun dumb that's so smart I feel like any game you can play remotely especially after all of the like crossword sessions We have had yeah like any game you can play remotely is great because remote workers are going to use that as their as their thing and you know people are going to get together i would love To play your exploding kittens game okay i'll pick it back up please do yeah i think the um i've shared this before already on the podcast but the likelihood of somebody listening to every Single episode is probably quite low so i think that the dumbest thing I've ever coded is probably my github commit graph gan website only because I thought this was such a great idea When I first did it and now I am making the graph gan and realizing how awful it is to actually make this thing because I'm switching colors so often and that's really hard in crochet I mean I'm sure it's hard in knitting and stuff too but like in crochet it's terrible and I've weaved in like a million ends and I'm like this was such a bad idea I'm still gonna finish it but it Erika Is definitely what I have been thinking about I was like this is the dumbest thing I've ever made why did I do this to? I remember the look of pure joy you had when you thought of this too. It really is like a passion project. I know. Brittany Ellich It's got full circle now. I just need to finish it so I can get out of my head and be done with it. Erika Once you get to your vibe coding days, it's pure, pure emerald green. Yeah, that's true. I was legitimately mad when the first time i changed colors in the knitting because i was like there's nothing to this it's so easy why is it so easy compared to crochet there's still we Abbey Perini They're still weaving in ends but it's not like a whole like you have to figure out where the anyway point being i have two examples and funnily enough the finished one is a back-end project When i graduated boot camp i was like i'm done these skills now what do i want to do create a discord bot that will send a dog picture to anyone who mentions a dog in my discord my husband was Like you know you have to put commands on that you can't just like have anyone mention a dog and a dog picture show up and i was was like, okay, so they can request dog photos, I guess. That was the thing. And then my sister is engaged and this is her idea. And I have to figure out how to make it happen. And I'm sorry that I'm calling it dumb Sydney, but it is a perfect example. So she wants on her wedding website for there to be a date, the fruit, the fruit, a date. And it's going to have a bomb on it. So it's going to be very concerned. It's going to be a very scared date. And to save the date, the fruit, you have to type in the date of the wedding. And I have to figure out how to make that happen. This is my job as Sister of the Pride. And I was like, I'm honored and I know how to do about 50% of that. So that's going to be fun. That is amazing yeah yeah so truly at me if you have tips i guess i might have to buy the josh kumot course honestly honestly right well that is very fun i'm so excited to see what you come Bethany Janos Up with there uh please post updates on the save the date. Will do. ([Time 0:42:28](https://share.snipd.com/snip/eed7731f-ceee-4699-b34b-8a91a9f756c4))