Advocacy That Builds Power with Mark Reynolds

Advocacy That Builds Power with Mark Reynolds 🔗 **Source:** [Advocacy That Builds Power with Mark Reynolds](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cchQzLr84aQ) > [!note]+ Document Notes > tags: [advocacy, grassroots-organizing, climate-activism] > author: Mark Reynolds > source: Citizens Climate Lobby > reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cchQzLr84aQ > date created: 2024-12-20 09:30 > > # 🏷️ Title: Advocacy That Builds Power with Mark Reynolds >  ## 🧰 Action Inbox - [H1] Focus on solutions-oriented messaging rather than doom and gloom — 11:30 #advocacy - [H2] Build community alongside mission work for sustainable growth — 15:45 #community - [H3] Target middle-aged women as ideal advocacy candidates — 28:15 #recruitment ## 🧭 Table of Contents - [📝 Summary](#-summary) - [📖 Main Content](#-main-content) - [🗒️ Notes](#️-notes) - [📚 References](#-references) - [🗣️ Paraphrase](#️-paraphrase) - [📰 Newsletter](#-newsletter) - [✅ Action Items](#-action-items) - [🧪 Hypotheses](#-hypotheses) - [📊 Methodology](#-methodology) - [❓ Questions](#-questions) - [🔮 Future Research](#-future-research) - [💡 Implications](#-implications) - [🧠 Learning Styles Assessment](#-learning-styles-assessment) - [📊 Accessibility Assessment](#-accessibility-assessment) - [🌍 DEIB Assessment](#-deib-assessment) - [✅ Logical Validity](#-logical-validity) - [🛡️ DARVO Analysis](#-darvo-analysis) - [🎯 Conclusion](#-conclusion) ### 🔗 References - [Citizens Climate Lobby](https://citizensclimatelobby.org) - [Yale Climate Communication Project](https://climatecommunication.yale.edu/) ## 📝 Summary - Mark Reynolds shares lessons from scaling Citizens Climate Lobby from 6 chapters to 448 chapters and 24 to 197,776 US supporters - Key insights include focusing on solutions-oriented messaging, building community alongside mission work, and taking long-term approaches to relationships - Emphasizes importance of meeting people where they are rather than expecting them to come to climate work through science alone - Provides practical recruitment and retention strategies for grassroots advocacy organizations ## 📖 Main Content Mark Reynolds led Citizens Climate Lobby through explosive growth from 2009-2022, transforming it from a small West Coast organization to a national movement that senators contact when considering climate legislation. His presentation focuses on key principles that enabled this growth: action as antidote to despair, solutions-oriented messaging, community building, long-term relationship approaches, and continuous recruitment. The organization discovered that meeting people on their terms - whether through faith, agriculture concerns, or industry backgrounds - proved far more effective than expecting everyone to approach climate through science. This insight came through interactions with evangelical climate scientist Dr. Katharine Hayhoe and led to successful chapters in unexpected places like Houston's oil industry. Research-backed strategies include Rob Willer's findings that doom-and-gloom messaging backfires unless paired with solutions, and Hahrie Han's research showing successful social movements provide community, not just transactional asks. The long-term relationship approach means continuing to engage even with elected officials who can't currently support their positions. ## 🗒️ Notes #### ⏱️ [00:00](https://youtu.be/cchQzLr84aQ?t=0) — [H1] Organizational growth metrics and congratulations - Key idea: CCL grew from 6 chapters and 24 supporters to 448 chapters and 197,776 supporters - Evidence: "When he completed his term in 2022, there were 448 chapters and 197,776 US supporters" #### ⏱️ [04:30](https://youtu.be/cchQzLr84aQ?t=270) — [H2] Meeting people on their terms breakthrough - Key idea: Dr. Katharine Hayhoe's 2014 appearance changed CCL's approach to include faith-based climate advocacy - Evidence: "Every major religion says we should be good stewards of the earth and there's so many people that want to come to work on climate change based on their faith" #### ⏱️ [06:45](https://youtu.be/cchQzLr84aQ?t=405) — [H2] Houston oil industry chapter example - Key idea: CCL opened chapters where members worked at oil companies like Exxon Mobile and Chevron - Evidence: "Our chapter in Houston is formed and all the people in the chapter are people who worked in the oil industry" #### ⏱️ [08:15](https://youtu.be/cchQzLr84aQ?t=495) — [H3] Listening to congressional concerns discovery - Key idea: CCL learned to ask staff what concerns members rather than assuming based on backgrounds - Evidence: "We had been briefing him on the connection between climate change and national security... his staff said agriculture" #### ⏱️ [09:30](https://youtu.be/cchQzLr84aQ?t=570) — [H1] Action as antidote to despair principle - Key idea: Joan Baez quote guides CCL's focus on keeping people in action rather than despair - Evidence: "Action is the antidote to despair. We have always focused on people being in action" #### ⏱️ [11:30](https://youtu.be/cchQzLr84aQ?t=690) — [H1] Solutions-oriented messaging research - Key idea: Rob Willer's 2011 study showed doom and gloom messaging backfires without solutions - Evidence: "If all you do is give people the doom and gloom about global warming they tend to say I'm not so sure that's right" #### ⏱️ [13:45](https://youtu.be/cchQzLr84aQ?t=825) — [H2] Community building versus transactional approach - Key idea: Hahrie Han's research shows successful social movements provide community, not just asks - Evidence: "It's almost like the only thing that matters is the mission, but at the same time the only thing that matters is the people" #### ⏱️ [15:45](https://youtu.be/cchQzLr84aQ?t=945) — [H1] Long-term relationship approach with officials - Key idea: Utah chapter continues hiking with senator who can't vote for their position - Evidence: "He told them, 'I can't vote for what you want me to work on.' And their answer was, 'Spend more time with him. Take more long hikes with him.'" #### ⏱️ [17:30](https://youtu.be/cchQzLr84aQ?t=1050) — [H2] Innovation through new people and chapters - Key idea: Never know who will create crucial innovations for the entire organization - Evidence: "You never know who is going to be that next person that's going to come up with something that's going to be crucial" #### ⏱️ [20:15](https://youtu.be/cchQzLr84aQ?t=1215) — [H3] Large chapter organizational structures - Key idea: Bigger chapters developed multiple group leaders, steering committees, and specialized teams - Evidence: "A lot of the bigger chapters started to have more than one group leader... there'd be a media team and there'd be an outreach team" #### ⏱️ [23:45](https://youtu.be/cchQzLr84aQ?t=1425) — [H2] Geographic challenges and virtual meetings - Key idea: Some chapters can only meet virtually due to geography but must persist - Evidence: "We have a lot of chapters who can only meet virtually. They it just geographically it doesn't make any sense" #### ⏱️ [25:30](https://youtu.be/cchQzLr84aQ?t=1530) — [H1] Caesar Chavez one-on-one organizing principle - Key idea: Greatest organizer focused on talking to one person at a time - Evidence: "I talked to one person. When I'm done talking to that person, I talk to the next person" #### ⏱️ [27:00](https://youtu.be/cchQzLr84aQ?t=1620) — [H3] Creative recruitment tactics at events - Key idea: Positioning near restrooms at climate marches proved effective for recruitment - Evidence: "If you stand with the clipboard by the restroom, you can get a lot of names because there's always a big line of people there" #### ⏱️ [28:15](https://youtu.be/cchQzLr84aQ?t=1695) — [H2] Ideal advocate demographics - Key idea: Middle-aged women make ideal advocates because they're battle-tested and experienced disadvantage - Evidence: "If you study advocacy the ideal candidate for someone to be an advocate is a middle-aged woman" ## 📚 References - [Rob Willer's Climate Communication Research](https://psychology.berkeley.edu/people/rob-willer) - [Hahrie Han's Social Movement Research](https://spia.princeton.edu/faculty-research/faculty-a-z/hahrie-han) - [Yale Climate Communication Project](https://climatecommunication.yale.edu/) ## 🗣️ Paraphrase - Successful grassroots advocacy requires meeting people where they are, not where you think they should be, as CCL learned when embracing faith-based and industry-connected climate advocates - Research shows that doom-and-gloom messaging without solutions causes people to reject climate science, while solutions-oriented approaches build acceptance and engagement - Building lasting movements requires providing community and relationships alongside mission work, taking long-term approaches even with those who can't currently support your positions ## 📰 Newsletter **Building Advocacy Organizations That Last: Lessons from Citizens Climate Lobby** Mark Reynolds shares hard-won wisdom from scaling CCL from 6 chapters to 448 chapters nationwide. Key insights for WordPress community builders: **Meet People Where They Are**: Just as CCL embraced oil industry workers and faith communities, successful open source communities welcome contributors regardless of their entry point - whether through design, development, or documentation. **Solutions Over Problems**: Rather than focusing on what's broken in WordPress, highlight concrete ways people can contribute and make impact. Research shows this approach builds engagement rather than despair. **Community + Mission**: Provide belonging alongside purpose. Technical excellence matters, but relationships sustain long-term participation. Resources: [Community Team Handbook](https://make.wordpress.org/community/handbook/), [Contributor Mentorship](https://make.wordpress.org/community/handbook/contributor-mentorship/), [WordCamp Central](https://central.wordcamp.org/) ## ✅ Action Items #### DevRel - Developer advocacy: Create solutions-focused content highlighting contributor success stories rather than just technical problems - Education: Develop multiple pathways for engagement (design, code, community) rather than assuming single entry point - Community management: Implement one-on-one outreach strategies based on Caesar Chavez organizing principles #### Community - Contributors: Build specialized teams (documentation, translation, accessibility) to give everyone meaningful roles - Maintainers: Take long-term relationship approach with difficult stakeholders rather than writing them off - Sponsors: Create community elements alongside transactional sponsorship asks #### WordPress - Community: Develop chapter-like local structures with autonomy for innovation and experimentation - Training: Create faith-based, industry-specific, and values-driven pathways to WordPress contribution - Marketing: Shift messaging from problems WordPress solves to solutions contributors can build ## 🧪 Hypotheses - Organizations grow faster when they provide multiple entry points aligned with diverse values rather than single pathways - Solutions-oriented messaging builds more engagement than problem-focused communication in advocacy contexts - One-on-one relationship building scales better than mass outreach for sustainable organizational growth - Middle management demographics (experienced but not overwhelmed) provide optimal advocacy participation rates ### 📊 Methodology - Survey CCL chapters to correlate growth rates with messaging approaches and demographic composition - A/B test solutions-focused versus problem-focused WordPress community recruitment materials - Track conversion rates from different entry pathways (technical, design, community) to long-term contribution ### ❓ Questions - How do we identify the "middle-aged women equivalent" demographic for tech community advocacy? - What solutions-focused messaging would work best for WordPress community growth versus problem-focused approaches? - How can distributed teams replicate the relationship-building that CCL achieved through in-person hiking and dinners? ### 🔮 Future Research - Comparative analysis of successful open source community growth strategies across different demographic and values-based entry points - Investigation of optimal organizational structures for scaling grassroots technical communities - Study of long-term relationship approaches in technical advocacy and policy contexts ### 💡 Implications - Practice: Shift from assuming technical entry points to meeting potential contributors through their existing interests and values - Policy: Apply long-term relationship building to WordPress governance discussions rather than transactional approaches - Education: Develop multiple learning pathways that connect to diverse motivations for WordPress involvement - Funding: Support community-building activities alongside technical development to sustain long-term participation ### 🧠 Learning Styles Assessment Reading level estimate: 10th grade #### 👀 Visual learners - Present: Growth metrics and organizational charts mentioned - Improve: Timeline infographics of CCL's growth phases, org chart evolution #### 🔊 Aural learners - Present: Full audio presentation with speaker interaction - Improve: Highlighted audio clips of key principles and quotes #### 🗣️ Verbal learners - Present: Rich storytelling with specific examples and analogies - Improve: Glossary of organizing terms, comparison frameworks #### 🧩 Kinesthetic learners - Present: Actionable recruitment tactics and organizing strategies - Improve: Step-by-step chapter building checklists, role-playing scenarios #### 🧠 Logical learners - Present: Research citations and cause-effect relationships in growth - Improve: Decision trees for recruitment approaches, KPI frameworks #### 🧑‍🤝‍🧑 Social learners - Present: Community building emphasis and relationship focus - Improve: Discussion guides for implementing principles, peer learning exercises #### 🧘‍♀️ Solitary learners - Present: Individual reflection on personal advocacy approaches - Improve: Self-assessment tools for organizing strengths, personal action planning #### 🌿 Naturalistic learners - Present: Climate context and environmental stewardship themes - Improve: Ecosystem thinking about organizational development and growth cycles ### 📊 Accessibility Assessment #### Screen reader semantics - Present: Clear speaker identification and topic transitions - Improve: Structural headings for major principle sections, description of any visual elements #### Keyboard navigation - Present: Standard video player controls - Improve: Keyboard shortcuts for jumping between major topics #### Contrast and readability - Present: Audio-primary content accessible without visual elements - Improve: High-contrast transcript formatting options #### Text resizing and reflow - Present: Transcript available for text scaling - Improve: Responsive transcript layout, customizable font options #### Media and captions - Present: Full transcript provided - Improve: Time-synced captions, audio descriptions for any visual elements #### Forms and interactions - Present: Standard video interaction - Improve: Accessible feedback forms for applying principles ### 🌍 DEIB Assessment #### Cultural breadth - Present: Examples from diverse geographic regions (Utah, Houston, San Diego) - Improve: International chapter examples, cultural adaptation strategies #### Inclusive language - Present: Plain language explanations of organizing concepts - Improve: Avoid assumptions about family structures, economic situations #### Neurodiversity support - Present: Clear structure with defined principles and examples - Improve: Executive summaries, varied pacing options #### Representation - Present: Gender-balanced examples, diverse professional backgrounds - Improve: More racial and ethnic diversity in examples, accessibility considerations #### Psychological safety - Present: Encouraging tone about learning from failures and experimentation - Improve: Content warnings about political topics, support resources ### ✅ Logical Validity #### Strong reasoning - Deductive strength: Research citations support messaging principles effectively - Inductive strength: Multiple chapter examples build convincing patterns - Causal reasoning: Clear connections between strategies and growth outcomes - Analogical strength: Caesar Chavez organizing parallels well-developed #### Fallacies - Survivorship bias: Focus on successful growth may miss chapters that failed using same methods - Post hoc reasoning: Some correlations between strategies and success may not be causal #### Tone of voice - Overall tone: Encouraging and practical, sharing failures alongside successes, humble about learning process ### 🛡️ DARVO Analysis - Deny: No denial patterns detected - Attack: No attacks on critics or opponents - Reverse victim/offender: No victim/offender reversals present - Emotional cues and rhetoric: --- ## Full Transcript [00:00] So, let's turn now to our guest speaker. [00:04] Mark Reynolds led Citizens Climate Lobby [00:07] during an explosive period of growth. [00:10] Reynolds became the executive director [00:12] of Citizens Climate Lobby in 2009. At [00:16] that time, there were six chapters all [00:19] on the West Coast and 24 supporters. [00:22] When he completed his term in 2022, [00:26] there were 448 chapters and [00:30] 197,776 [00:33] US supporters as well as 145 chapters [00:37] outside the US representing 74 [00:41] countries. During that time, the staff [00:43] grew from two to 72. During his tenure, [00:48] CCL transformed from a scrappy [00:51] grassroots organization to the [00:53] organization US senators contact when [00:56] they are considering introducing climate [00:58] related bills. Mark is also known as the [01:01] architect of the CCLA, having built into [01:04] the organization key values of focus, [01:06] optimism, integrity, relationships, and [01:09] personal power. Mark, it's wonderful to [01:12] have you with us today. If I might let [01:14] me introduce you to our chapters. Uh we [01:19] have launched our first chapter in March [01:20] and we have 11 chapters across the [01:23] country who are dedicated to addressing [01:26] the interconnected crises of climate [01:28] change and societal injustice with their [01:31] members of Congress. We are preparing [01:33] now to launch five or six more chapters [01:36] in March. As we grow more chapters, we [01:40] are also dedicated to growing our [01:42] current chapters through outreach, [01:44] whether that's through tableabling, [01:45] public speaking, one-on-one invitations. [01:49] CCL has been an inspiration and a model [01:52] in pioneering strong and effective [01:54] methods for growth and advocacy. We're [01:56] really eager to hear from you today. [01:58] Thank you. The the floor is yours. [02:01] >> Wow. Um, [02:03] first of all, I am so blown away with [02:05] what you guys got done with the EPA. [02:07] that is nothing short of miraculous. Uh [02:09] and congratulations on that. Um [02:12] secondly, congratulations on getting to [02:14] 11 chapters so quickly. Um we were stuck [02:17] at six for over a year. Uh and thought [02:20] that we might never really grow and then [02:23] we added four at one event and when we [02:25] got to 10 we're like we're almost kind [02:27] of chasty about it like look at this. [02:29] Who's ever got an organization with 10 [02:31] chapters? So congratulations first on [02:34] the uh the quick growth and secondly the [02:37] uh successful advocacy. Again I think [02:40] that um that work with the EPA is [02:42] nothing short of miraculous. I mean that [02:44] that is that was not the direction that [02:46] was heading. Um the other thing about [02:49] being on this call is it really hearkens [02:51] me back to May of 2014. [02:54] May of 2014 was the first time that we [02:56] had Dr. Katherine Heiho on our call as a [02:58] guest speaker and she wasn't known back [03:00] then. We had just heard that there was a [03:04] climate scientist from Canada who was [03:06] teaching at Texas Tech who was [03:08] evangelical and her husband was an [03:10] evangelical minister. And so she came [03:12] and was a guest on our call and um she [03:15] completely changed our organization and [03:17] personally blew my mind. Um what she [03:20] kept saying was every major religion [03:24] says we should be good stewards of the [03:26] earth and asserts that we're not being [03:28] so and that there's so many people that [03:31] want to come to work on climate change [03:34] based on their faith. Now my view [03:36] because it was the way I had come to [03:38] working on climate change was the only [03:40] way you could come to working on climate [03:41] change was through the science. And so [03:44] to realize that I was how close-minded I [03:47] was, what a blockhead I was being, uh [03:50] was really a gamecher for me and for the [03:52] organization. And what we all realized [03:54] is we always needed to meet people on [03:57] their their terms, not how we thought [04:00] they should be coming to this. So for [04:02] instance, our chapter in Houston is [04:05] formed in and and all the people in the [04:07] chapter are people who worked in the oil [04:09] industry. They worked at Exxon Mobile. [04:11] they worked at Chevron. I don't think we [04:14] would have been opening to having a [04:16] chapter like that if if the incredible [04:18] work with Dr. Heiho of saying people can [04:20] come to this how they come to it, not [04:23] how we think that they should. So, what [04:26] I'm going to do is just go over some of [04:28] the really broad issues that have [04:31] affected ours uh chapters, both growing [04:34] and uh adding chapters. And that I want [04:37] to spend as much time as possible, as [04:39] Brooke said, is answering any questions [04:42] you have. You know, we had this other [04:44] major discovery about 12 years ago where [04:48] we found out if they we were interested [04:50] in what other people had to say, we [04:52] [laughter and clears throat] could maybe [04:53] be more successful with him. So, one [04:55] example was we had been meeting with a [04:57] member of Congress who was a former [04:59] Marine. So, for three years, we had [05:01] briefed him on the connection between [05:04] climate change and national security. [05:06] Makes sense. Former Marine, right? So [05:08] then we had the idea, well, why don't we [05:10] ask his staff what actually concerns him [05:14] about climate change? And just as what [05:16] we expected, his staff said agriculture. [05:19] [laughter] So we had been briefing him [05:21] on the wrong thing for years. So [05:23] hopefully I'll be able to answer some [05:26] questions that will help you in the in [05:27] the development of your chapter. So [05:30] here's some of the general things that [05:31] that we learned. You know Joan Bayz is [05:34] the person who's attributed with the [05:35] line action is the antidote to despair. [05:39] We have always focused on people being [05:41] in action. So like all those postcards [05:44] postcards you guys collected and and [05:46] what Brooke was talking about you guys [05:48] didn't ring your hands when things [05:49] didn't look what good last July you got [05:52] into action. So we have are very much [05:55] focused on people being in action doing [05:58] something. Uh early on anytime if even [06:02] people would submit a draft letter to [06:04] the editor of newspaper even if it [06:06] didn't get published we would lose our [06:07] minds over people were doing something [06:09] because we we felt that people being in [06:11] action was so important. [06:14] Second is in 2011 uh a gentleman named [06:18] Rob Willers published a paper called [06:20] apocalypse soon dire messages are [06:24] counterproductive on global warming he [06:26] was teaching at Berkeley then I believe [06:28] that he's teaching at Stanford now [06:30] here's what his study showed his study [06:32] showed if all you do is give people the [06:34] doom and gloom about global warming they [06:38] tend to say I'm not so sure that's right [06:41] I think my friend who said the planet [06:43] just goes through natural cycles [06:44] understands this better than you. You [06:47] can give people all the doom and gloom [06:48] you want, but the moment you introduce a [06:51] solution into the discussion, that same [06:53] person will say, "I finally met somebody [06:56] who understands the issue." So, we [06:58] became very focused on [clears throat] [07:00] all of our discussions with people being [07:03] solutionsoriented. [07:05] Then there's a great uh American [07:07] political scientist by the name of Hari [07:09] Han. Hari Han uh studies uh social [07:13] movements and one of the things she's [07:15] discovered that's consistent in [07:17] successful social movements is they're [07:19] not transactional. They don't just ask [07:22] people to do something. What they do is [07:25] in addition to asking people to do [07:27] something, they provide a community. So [07:29] it's almost like the only thing that [07:31] matters is the mission, but at the same [07:33] time the only thing that matters is the [07:35] people. We found that that was [07:37] absolutely uh essential to our success [07:40] is to us to be curious to be interested [07:43] to be absolutely committed to our [07:45] people's success not just in their [07:47] advocacy but in their life. [07:50] Then um [07:52] the the other thing that I think is [07:54] maybe the most important is we said we [07:58] were going to take a long-term approach [08:00] with people. Um, I think Tom Moyer from [08:03] Utah has been on this call before and [08:04] talked about bipartisanship. So, that's [08:07] such an interesting thing in Utah. So, [08:10] they have been meeting with their member [08:11] of the House for a long time. They go on [08:13] long hikes with him. Uh, he's now a [08:15] member of the Senate. And he told them, [08:18] "I can't vote for what you want me to [08:19] work on." And so, what their answer to [08:21] that was, "Spend more time with him. [08:23] Take more long hikes with him." [08:25] >> [laughter] [08:25] >> So what we've said is is they might not [08:29] be able to do what we want them to do [08:30] right now, but we're taking the [08:32] long-term approach in relationships both [08:34] with members of Congress and other [08:36] people in the chapter. So that that what [08:38] we're really building for is the long [08:39] term. You know, there's a lot of people [08:41] you're going to meet with who are never [08:43] going to be able to vote for what you [08:44] want, but maybe they just don't [08:47] ferociously fight it as they would have. [08:49] So we we believe that taking the [08:51] long-term approach is crucial. And then [08:53] the last thing is we believe adding [08:55] people and adding chapters is absolutely [08:58] essential because you never know who's [09:01] going to be the next person that comes [09:02] up with some innovation in tableabling [09:05] or outreach or advocacy or training. You [09:08] know, we used to um before COVID, we [09:10] would have people sign in and say how [09:12] many people were there in their chapter [09:13] and it was a lot easier for people to [09:15] meet together. So it would standardly go [09:17] Seattle 8, Chicago 12, Toronto 15, [09:21] Portland 30, Salt Lake City 24, Raleigh [09:25] 1 [laughter] [09:26] for for over a year. Every month it was [09:29] Raleigh one. [laughter] [09:32] Eventually he cracked the code and [09:34] figured out how to recruit people. But [09:36] more importantly, that gentleman created [09:39] some of the most important trainings in [09:42] in all of our organization. So it was [09:45] really, you know, you never know who is [09:47] going to be that next person that's [09:49] going to come up with something that's [09:50] going to be crucial for the entire [09:52] organization. So we think that adding [09:54] people uh adding new people to the [09:56] chapter, adding new chapters is is [09:58] absolutely uh crucial. So let me let me [10:00] just pause there and see what kinds of [10:02] things that you would like to ask. [10:06] >> Well, I I'd be curious for some of the [10:09] your the CCL chapters. I this there may [10:13] have been a CCL chapter I heard about in [10:15] like San Francisco or Sacramento where [10:17] they would get together for dinner every [10:20] month and and they just had a really [10:23] robust number of members. Are there like [10:26] things like you know innovations that [10:29] you made that you saw that were like oh [10:32] that you know they're they're creating [10:34] some community community there that's [10:36] drawing in some people. uh any any [10:38] examples like that that you can lift up [10:40] for us? [10:41] >> Yeah, it's so interesting because the [10:42] chapters are so different. You know, [10:44] some of them are [10:46] five to 10 people and have always been [10:47] five to 10 people, but you're you're [10:49] right, San Francisco and Sacramento both [10:50] end up with very large chapters and did [10:53] end up with uh social structures, but [10:55] they also created some really [10:57] interesting things. So, for instance, a [10:59] lot of the bigger chapters started to [11:01] have more than one group leader. So it [11:04] was uh more than one person sharing the [11:07] responsibility or having a steering [11:08] committee or creating different [11:11] committees with accountabilities inside [11:13] the chapter. So there'd be a media team [11:16] and there'd be an outreach team and [11:17] there'd be a sometimes even a [11:19] fundraising team. It it's it's I think [11:23] really crucial because you need to give [11:25] everybody something they can do and [11:27] people are way different. You know, some [11:29] people don't want to go to a lobby [11:31] meeting. Um, some people are good [11:33] writers and they just want to write. So, [11:34] it's it really is about uh I think [11:37] giving room for the chapters to uh [11:39] develop and innovate like that. [11:42] >> Great. Great. Thanks. That's helpful. [11:49] I see. We'll go with Jeff Spencer and [11:51] then Katherine. [11:53] So I'm wondering about um [11:58] the whole role of [12:02] connections internally within an [12:04] individual chapter an individual [12:06] affiliate. Um, one of the challenges [12:08] that we have, uh, in the group that I'm [12:12] part of, East Bay Climb Hope, affiliate, [12:15] um, is that we cover a large geographic [12:18] area and so getting together physically, [12:21] you know, in on site with one another, [12:25] um, is a big investment of time [12:27] commuting, uh, you know, some, you know, [12:30] people are going to have to commute to [12:31] get there. And um so we've been meeting [12:35] online [12:36] and we've had real inconsistent [12:38] attendance. So I'm wondering if you have [12:41] something to say about um about building [12:44] internal strength within a chapter. [12:46] >> God, that's such a good question because [12:48] you know, you're right. We have a we we [12:50] have some chapters where it just doesn't [12:53] work geographically for them to get [12:55] together. So the question is [laughter] [12:59] Okay, there you are. Um, you know, it's [13:02] it's obviously harder to build those [13:04] kind of relationships when it's been [13:05] done virtually than when you could [13:07] actually be in person. There is there is [13:10] something that can happen in person that [13:12] is easier to create connections. But [13:14] we've we have a lot of chapters who can [13:16] only meet virtually. They it just [13:18] geographically it doesn't make any [13:19] sense. And so the the the thing with it [13:22] is it's kind of like [clears throat] [13:24] what Brooks was talking about at the [13:25] start of the call. You just have to hang [13:26] in there and stick with it. And the [13:28] other thing to know is [clears throat] [13:30] we've found that the people who end up [13:33] over time sustaining a chapter are not [13:36] always the ones who are there at the [13:38] start. So you may think that you've got [13:40] the right people to start, but then what [13:42] you'll find is that you actually a add [13:45] people that are the right people for you [13:47] to work with on a long-term basis. And [13:49] it I think there's got to be two things [13:51] there. One is is what you're working on [13:53] is so important, but that these are [13:54] people that you want to work with. Um, [13:57] and so that that might take some time [13:59] and just just be be willing to be [14:01] patient that there's some people that [14:03] might be there initially that aren't the [14:04] right people. [14:07] >> Great. All right, we'll go with to [14:09] Katherine in Oakland and then we'll go [14:11] to Edward's Church. Um, and I'm [14:14] wondering, well, I'm I am wondering if [14:17] you can um recall like what was the most [14:20] what were the most powerful types of [14:22] events that were um [14:26] uh created for the public to interface [14:30] with the public as far as getting people [14:34] uh interested in the topic and doing [14:36] some kind of action? Would it be more [14:39] like tableabling or uh one-on-one um [14:44] talks, you know, or online or or what [14:47] kind of things would were the more [14:49] powerful actions [14:51] >> that again I mean that is such a [14:53] fantastic question. Um oh my gosh, [14:56] Caesar Chavez, you know, probably the [14:59] greatest organizer in the history of our [15:00] country was asked once what was the key [15:03] to building a grassroots movement? And [15:05] he said, "I talked to one person. When [15:09] I'm done talking to that person, I talk [15:11] to the next person." And he [laughter] [15:12] said, "No, no, no, no, no, no. How do [15:15] you feel thousands of people?" He said, [15:17] "I talk to one person. [laughter] [15:20] When I'm done talking to one person, I [15:22] knock to the next person." So, in terms [15:24] of bringing people along, there is [15:26] always going to be that one-on-one [15:28] element. But in terms of recruitment, [15:30] what you're always looking for is [15:32] opportunities. So our chapters are [15:34] tableabling all the time. You know, one [15:36] of the most successful things we've ever [15:38] had was when there are big climate [15:40] marches and [laughter] [15:43] one of the things we discovered if you [15:45] stand with the clipboard by the [15:47] restroom, you [laughter] can you can get [15:49] a lot of names because there's always a [15:52] big line of people there. So there's the [15:54] you know there is what are the [15:56] opportunities to get out in front of [15:57] people so you can get people that you [15:59] need to talk to. But then ultimately we [16:01] believe that Caesar Chavez is right that [16:04] is about one-on-one. It's about sitting [16:06] down with someone. It's about finding [16:08] out what they're interested in, finding [16:10] out what's important in their life and [16:12] and just bringing them as a one-on-one [16:14] basis. But that really, you know, it's [16:16] we tabled at films, we tabled it at [16:19] farmers markets. Uh again, we we were [16:22] heavily at any climate march, you know, [16:25] just anywhere where there were people [16:26] who we thought had the same concern we [16:28] we did. uh we would be there and then [16:30] just trying to find interesting ways to [16:32] get them to come to our um booth rather [16:36] than other people's booths. So I don't [16:38] know if you how familiar you are with [16:40] the Yale 360 project but they've [16:42] identified six categories that Americans [16:44] are in everything from alarm to dissent [16:47] interested and so we would give people a [16:50] chance to write down what category [16:52] they're in. It was just a way of getting [16:53] them engaged. Or one time uh when I was [16:57] there at Baloa Park where Earth Day is [16:59] in San Diego, we just had little bubble [17:01] blowing things and every little kid [17:03] wants a bubble thing so their kids would [17:04] stop and we get a chance to talk to [17:06] their parents. [17:09] >> Nice. Nice. Well, we'll know you you've [17:11] had an impact on us when all our members [17:13] are hanging outside bathrooms and [17:15] restrooms. So, [laughter] that's good. [17:17] All right. So um it's it's why [17:22] experimentation is so important um and [17:25] that you keep talking to each other and [17:27] find out how people have been [17:28] successful. Um first of all um parents [17:33] with young kids are not good candidates [17:35] for advocacy. [laughter] [17:37] They [17:39] as you said for them it's just getting [17:42] through [laughter] another week. I have [17:44] five grandsons and um you know their [17:47] parents are you know they're completely [17:50] overwhelmed with raising their children [17:52] and I'd love them to be way more [17:54] interested in participating in the work [17:55] that I'm in. Uh but really uh if you [17:58] study advocacy [18:00] uh the ideal candidate for someone to be [18:03] an advocate is a middle-aged woman. Why [18:06] a middle-aged woman? uh one um they've [18:11] been through they're battle tested uh [18:13] and they've been playing at a [18:15] disadvantage for most of their life. So [18:17] um you want as many of those as you can [18:20] get. Um but uh you know uh I wouldn't I [18:25] wouldn't worry about the the young [18:27] parents. I mean that they literally they [18:29] don't they just don't have the time and [18:31] they're not they don't they can't make [18:33] the time right now. they will some point [18:35] later in their life. But um you know you [18:38] are looking for people who either are [18:41] younger or uh in a lot of cases it's [18:44] great to get people who are like I am [18:46] where I'm retired. I have time um and I [18:50] can spend my time on on advocacy. [18:53] >> Great. Great. Well, we have [18:55] unfortunately come to the end of our [18:56] time. We are so grateful Mark for all [19:00] the wisdom that you have shared with us. [19:01] It's been terrific. uh you know I feel [19:04] like I could be asking you questions for [19:06] days to to kind of draw out wisdom. So [19:09] we are so appreciative you're coming [19:11] today and uh really uh I I think also in [19:15] your comments though like when you're [19:16] talking about how you're in a state of [19:18] retirement I I think you're also [19:20] volunteering to to volunteer for us, [19:22] right? I think [19:23] >> absolutely. [19:24] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We'll we'll [19:25] start up the chapter in San Diego. [19:28] Great. [19:28] >> So thank you so much for for joining us. [19:30] >> Thank you. Thanks for having me. I'd [19:31] love to come back anytime if it would be [19:33] of use to you guys. [19:35] >> Awesome.  ## 📺 Video ![](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cchQzLr84aQ) --- # 📝 Full Notes (Deep-Read Analysis) # 🏷️ Title: Advocacy That Builds Power with Mark Reynolds ## 🧰 Action Inbox - [H1] Focus on solutions-oriented messaging rather than doom and gloom — 11:30 #advocacy - [H2] Build community alongside mission work for sustainable growth — 15:45 #community - [H3] Target middle-aged women as ideal advocacy candidates — 28:15 #recruitment ## 🧭 Table of Contents - [📝 Summary](#-summary) - [📖 Main Content](#-main-content) - [🗒️ Notes](#️-notes) - [📚 References](#-references) - [🗣️ Paraphrase](#️-paraphrase) - [📰 Newsletter](#-newsletter) - [✅ Action Items](#-action-items) - [🧪 Hypotheses](#-hypotheses) - [📊 Methodology](#-methodology) - [❓ Questions](#-questions) - [🔮 Future Research](#-future-research) - [💡 Implications](#-implications) - [🧠 Learning Styles Assessment](#-learning-styles-assessment) - [📊 Accessibility Assessment](#-accessibility-assessment) - [🌍 DEIB Assessment](#-deib-assessment) - [✅ Logical Validity](#-logical-validity) - [🛡️ DARVO Analysis](#-darvo-analysis) - [🎯 Conclusion](#-conclusion) ### 🔗 References - [Citizens Climate Lobby](https://citizensclimatelobby.org) - [Yale Climate Communication Project](https://climatecommunication.yale.edu/) ## 📝 Summary - Mark Reynolds shares lessons from scaling Citizens Climate Lobby from 6 chapters to 448 chapters and 24 to 197,776 US supporters - Key insights include focusing on solutions-oriented messaging, building community alongside mission work, and taking long-term approaches to relationships - Emphasizes importance of meeting people where they are rather than expecting them to come to climate work through science alone - Provides practical recruitment and retention strategies for grassroots advocacy organizations ## 📖 Main Content Mark Reynolds led Citizens Climate Lobby through explosive growth from 2009-2022, transforming it from a small West Coast organization to a national movement that senators contact when considering climate legislation. His presentation focuses on key principles that enabled this growth: action as antidote to despair, solutions-oriented messaging, community building, long-term relationship approaches, and continuous recruitment. The organization discovered that meeting people on their terms - whether through faith, agriculture concerns, or industry backgrounds - proved far more effective than expecting everyone to approach climate through science. This insight came through interactions with evangelical climate scientist Dr. Katharine Hayhoe and led to successful chapters in unexpected places like Houston's oil industry. Research-backed strategies include Rob Willer's findings that doom-and-gloom messaging backfires unless paired with solutions, and Hahrie Han's research showing successful social movements provide community, not just transactional asks. The long-term relationship approach means continuing to engage even with elected officials who can't currently support their positions. ## 🗒️ Notes #### ⏱️ [00:00](https://youtu.be/cchQzLr84aQ?t=0) — [H1] Organizational growth metrics and congratulations - Key idea: CCL grew from 6 chapters and 24 supporters to 448 chapters and 197,776 supporters - Evidence: "When he completed his term in 2022, there were 448 chapters and 197,776 US supporters" #### ⏱️ [04:30](https://youtu.be/cchQzLr84aQ?t=270) — [H2] Meeting people on their terms breakthrough - Key idea: Dr. Katharine Hayhoe's 2014 appearance changed CCL's approach to include faith-based climate advocacy - Evidence: "Every major religion says we should be good stewards of the earth and there's so many people that want to come to work on climate change based on their faith" #### ⏱️ [06:45](https://youtu.be/cchQzLr84aQ?t=405) — [H2] Houston oil industry chapter example - Key idea: CCL opened chapters where members worked at oil companies like Exxon Mobile and Chevron - Evidence: "Our chapter in Houston is formed and all the people in the chapter are people who worked in the oil industry" #### ⏱️ [08:15](https://youtu.be/cchQzLr84aQ?t=495) — [H3] Listening to congressional concerns discovery - Key idea: CCL learned to ask staff what concerns members rather than assuming based on backgrounds - Evidence: "We had been briefing him on the connection between climate change and national security... his staff said agriculture" #### ⏱️ [09:30](https://youtu.be/cchQzLr84aQ?t=570) — [H1] Action as antidote to despair principle - Key idea: Joan Baez quote guides CCL's focus on keeping people in action rather than despair - Evidence: "Action is the antidote to despair. We have always focused on people being in action" #### ⏱️ [11:30](https://youtu.be/cchQzLr84aQ?t=690) — [H1] Solutions-oriented messaging research - Key idea: Rob Willer's 2011 study showed doom and gloom messaging backfires without solutions - Evidence: "If all you do is give people the doom and gloom about global warming they tend to say I'm not so sure that's right" #### ⏱️ [13:45](https://youtu.be/cchQzLr84aQ?t=825) — [H2] Community building versus transactional approach - Key idea: Hahrie Han's research shows successful social movements provide community, not just asks - Evidence: "It's almost like the only thing that matters is the mission, but at the same time the only thing that matters is the people" #### ⏱️ [15:45](https://youtu.be/cchQzLr84aQ?t=945) — [H1] Long-term relationship approach with officials - Key idea: Utah chapter continues hiking with senator who can't vote for their position - Evidence: "He told them, 'I can't vote for what you want me to work on.' And their answer was, 'Spend more time with him. Take more long hikes with him.'" #### ⏱️ [17:30](https://youtu.be/cchQzLr84aQ?t=1050) — [H2] Innovation through new people and chapters - Key idea: Never know who will create crucial innovations for the entire organization - Evidence: "You never know who is going to be that next person that's going to come up with something that's going to be crucial" #### ⏱️ [20:15](https://youtu.be/cchQzLr84aQ?t=1215) — [H3] Large chapter organizational structures - Key idea: Bigger chapters developed multiple group leaders, steering committees, and specialized teams - Evidence: "A lot of the bigger chapters started to have more than one group leader... there'd be a media team and there'd be an outreach team" #### ⏱️ [23:45](https://youtu.be/cchQzLr84aQ?t=1425) — [H2] Geographic challenges and virtual meetings - Key idea: Some chapters can only meet virtually due to geography but must persist - Evidence: "We have a lot of chapters who can only meet virtually. They it just geographically it doesn't make any sense" #### ⏱️ [25:30](https://youtu.be/cchQzLr84aQ?t=1530) — [H1] Caesar Chavez one-on-one organizing principle - Key idea: Greatest organizer focused on talking to one person at a time - Evidence: "I talked to one person. When I'm done talking to that person, I talk to the next person" #### ⏱️ [27:00](https://youtu.be/cchQzLr84aQ?t=1620) — [H3] Creative recruitment tactics at events - Key idea: Positioning near restrooms at climate marches proved effective for recruitment - Evidence: "If you stand with the clipboard by the restroom, you can get a lot of names because there's always a big line of people there" #### ⏱️ [28:15](https://youtu.be/cchQzLr84aQ?t=1695) — [H2] Ideal advocate demographics - Key idea: Middle-aged women make ideal advocates because they're battle-tested and experienced disadvantage - Evidence: "If you study advocacy the ideal candidate for someone to be an advocate is a middle-aged woman" ## 📚 References - [Rob Willer's Climate Communication Research](https://psychology.berkeley.edu/people/rob-willer) - [Hahrie Han's Social Movement Research](https://spia.princeton.edu/faculty-research/faculty-a-z/hahrie-han) - [Yale Climate Communication Project](https://climatecommunication.yale.edu/) ## 🗣️ Paraphrase - Successful grassroots advocacy requires meeting people where they are, not where you think they should be, as CCL learned when embracing faith-based and industry-connected climate advocates - Research shows that doom-and-gloom messaging without solutions causes people to reject climate science, while solutions-oriented approaches build acceptance and engagement - Building lasting movements requires providing community and relationships alongside mission work, taking long-term approaches even with those who can't currently support your positions ## 📰 Newsletter **Building Advocacy Organizations That Last: Lessons from Citizens Climate Lobby** Mark Reynolds shares hard-won wisdom from scaling CCL from 6 chapters to 448 chapters nationwide. Key insights for WordPress community builders: **Meet People Where They Are**: Just as CCL embraced oil industry workers and faith communities, successful open source communities welcome contributors regardless of their entry point - whether through design, development, or documentation. **Solutions Over Problems**: Rather than focusing on what's broken in WordPress, highlight concrete ways people can contribute and make impact. Research shows this approach builds engagement rather than despair. **Community + Mission**: Provide belonging alongside purpose. Technical excellence matters, but relationships sustain long-term participation. Resources: [Community Team Handbook](https://make.wordpress.org/community/handbook/), [Contributor Mentorship](https://make.wordpress.org/community/handbook/contributor-mentorship/), [WordCamp Central](https://central.wordcamp.org/) ## ✅ Action Items #### DevRel - Developer advocacy: Create solutions-focused content highlighting contributor success stories rather than just technical problems - Education: Develop multiple pathways for engagement (design, code, community) rather than assuming single entry point - Community management: Implement one-on-one outreach strategies based on Caesar Chavez organizing principles #### Community - Contributors: Build specialized teams (documentation, translation, accessibility) to give everyone meaningful roles - Maintainers: Take long-term relationship approach with difficult stakeholders rather than writing them off - Sponsors: Create community elements alongside transactional sponsorship asks #### WordPress - Community: Develop chapter-like local structures with autonomy for innovation and experimentation - Training: Create faith-based, industry-specific, and values-driven pathways to WordPress contribution - Marketing: Shift messaging from problems WordPress solves to solutions contributors can build ## 🧪 Hypotheses - Organizations grow faster when they provide multiple entry points aligned with diverse values rather than single pathways - Solutions-oriented messaging builds more engagement than problem-focused communication in advocacy contexts - One-on-one relationship building scales better than mass outreach for sustainable organizational growth - Middle management demographics (experienced but not overwhelmed) provide optimal advocacy participation rates ### 📊 Methodology - Survey CCL chapters to correlate growth rates with messaging approaches and demographic composition - A/B test solutions-focused versus problem-focused WordPress community recruitment materials - Track conversion rates from different entry pathways (technical, design, community) to long-term contribution ### ❓ Questions - How do we identify the "middle-aged women equivalent" demographic for tech community advocacy? - What solutions-focused messaging would work best for WordPress community growth versus problem-focused approaches? - How can distributed teams replicate the relationship-building that CCL achieved through in-person hiking and dinners? ### 🔮 Future Research - Comparative analysis of successful open source community growth strategies across different demographic and values-based entry points - Investigation of optimal organizational structures for scaling grassroots technical communities - Study of long-term relationship approaches in technical advocacy and policy contexts ### 💡 Implications - Practice: Shift from assuming technical entry points to meeting potential contributors through their existing interests and values - Policy: Apply long-term relationship building to WordPress governance discussions rather than transactional approaches - Education: Develop multiple learning pathways that connect to diverse motivations for WordPress involvement - Funding: Support community-building activities alongside technical development to sustain long-term participation ### 🧠 Learning Styles Assessment Reading level estimate: 10th grade #### 👀 Visual learners - Present: Growth metrics and organizational charts mentioned - Improve: Timeline infographics of CCL's growth phases, org chart evolution #### 🔊 Aural learners - Present: Full audio presentation with speaker interaction - Improve: Highlighted audio clips of key principles and quotes #### 🗣️ Verbal learners - Present: Rich storytelling with specific examples and analogies - Improve: Glossary of organizing terms, comparison frameworks #### 🧩 Kinesthetic learners - Present: Actionable recruitment tactics and organizing strategies - Improve: Step-by-step chapter building checklists, role-playing scenarios #### 🧠 Logical learners - Present: Research citations and cause-effect relationships in growth - Improve: Decision trees for recruitment approaches, KPI frameworks #### 🧑‍🤝‍🧑 Social learners - Present: Community building emphasis and relationship focus - Improve: Discussion guides for implementing principles, peer learning exercises #### 🧘‍♀️ Solitary learners - Present: Individual reflection on personal advocacy approaches - Improve: Self-assessment tools for organizing strengths, personal action planning #### 🌿 Naturalistic learners - Present: Climate context and environmental stewardship themes - Improve: Ecosystem thinking about organizational development and growth cycles ### 📊 Accessibility Assessment #### Screen reader semantics - Present: Clear speaker identification and topic transitions - Improve: Structural headings for major principle sections, description of any visual elements #### Keyboard navigation - Present: Standard video player controls - Improve: Keyboard shortcuts for jumping between major topics #### Contrast and readability - Present: Audio-primary content accessible without visual elements - Improve: High-contrast transcript formatting options #### Text resizing and reflow - Present: Transcript available for text scaling - Improve: Responsive transcript layout, customizable font options #### Media and captions - Present: Full transcript provided - Improve: Time-synced captions, audio descriptions for any visual elements #### Forms and interactions - Present: Standard video interaction - Improve: Accessible feedback forms for applying principles ### 🌍 DEIB Assessment #### Cultural breadth - Present: Examples from diverse geographic regions (Utah, Houston, San Diego) - Improve: International chapter examples, cultural adaptation strategies #### Inclusive language - Present: Plain language explanations of organizing concepts - Improve: Avoid assumptions about family structures, economic situations #### Neurodiversity support - Present: Clear structure with defined principles and examples - Improve: Executive summaries, varied pacing options #### Representation - Present: Gender-balanced examples, diverse professional backgrounds - Improve: More racial and ethnic diversity in examples, accessibility considerations #### Psychological safety - Present: Encouraging tone about learning from failures and experimentation - Improve: Content warnings about political topics, support resources ### ✅ Logical Validity #### Strong reasoning - Deductive strength: Research citations support messaging principles effectively - Inductive strength: Multiple chapter examples build convincing patterns - Causal reasoning: Clear connections between strategies and growth outcomes - Analogical strength: Caesar Chavez organizing parallels well-developed #### Fallacies - Survivorship bias: Focus on successful growth may miss chapters that failed using same methods - Post hoc reasoning: Some correlations between strategies and success may not be causal #### Tone of voice - Overall tone: Encouraging and practical, sharing failures alongside successes, humble about learning process ### 🛡️ DARVO Analysis - Deny: No denial patterns detected - Attack: No attacks on critics or opponents - Reverse victim/offender: No victim/offender reversals present - Emotional cues and rhetoric: --- # 📄 Full Transcript *Auto-generated from YouTube captions · timestamps roughly every 30 seconds · [watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cchQzLr84aQ)* **[00:00]** So, let's turn now to our guest speaker. Mark Reynolds led Citizens Climate Lobby during an explosive period of growth. Reynolds became the executive director of Citizens Climate Lobby in 2009. At that time, there were six chapters all on the West Coast and 24 supporters. When he completed his term in 2022, there were 448 chapters and 197,776 **[00:33]** US supporters as well as 145 chapters outside the US representing 74 countries. During that time, the staff grew from two to 72. During his tenure, CCL transformed from a scrappy grassroots organization to the organization US senators contact when they are considering introducing climate related bills. Mark is also known as the architect of the CCLA, having built into **[01:04]** the organization key values of focus, optimism, integrity, relationships, and personal power. Mark, it's wonderful to have you with us today. If I might let me introduce you to our chapters. Uh we have launched our first chapter in March and we have 11 chapters across the country who are dedicated to addressing the interconnected crises of climate change and societal injustice with their members of Congress. We are preparing now to launch five or six more chapters **[01:36]** in March. As we grow more chapters, we are also dedicated to growing our current chapters through outreach, whether that's through tableabling, public speaking, one-on-one invitations. CCL has been an inspiration and a model in pioneering strong and effective methods for growth and advocacy. We're really eager to hear from you today. Thank you. The the floor is yours. >> Wow. Um, first of all, I am so blown away with what you guys got done with the EPA. **[02:07]** that is nothing short of miraculous. Uh and congratulations on that. Um secondly, congratulations on getting to 11 chapters so quickly. Um we were stuck at six for over a year. Uh and thought that we might never really grow and then we added four at one event and when we got to 10 we're like we're almost kind of chasty about it like look at this. Who's ever got an organization with 10 chapters? So congratulations first on the uh the quick growth and secondly the **[02:37]** uh successful advocacy. Again I think that um that work with the EPA is nothing short of miraculous. I mean that that is that was not the direction that was heading. Um the other thing about being on this call is it really hearkens me back to May of 2014. May of 2014 was the first time that we had Dr. Katherine Heiho on our call as a guest speaker and she wasn't known back then. We had just heard that there was a climate scientist from Canada who was teaching at Texas Tech who was **[03:08]** evangelical and her husband was an evangelical minister. And so she came and was a guest on our call and um she completely changed our organization and personally blew my mind. Um what she kept saying was every major religion says we should be good stewards of the earth and asserts that we're not being so and that there's so many people that want to come to work on climate change based on their faith. Now my view because it was the way I had come to **[03:38]** working on climate change was the only way you could come to working on climate change was through the science. And so to realize that I was how close-minded I was, what a blockhead I was being, uh was really a gamecher for me and for the organization. And what we all realized is we always needed to meet people on their their terms, not how we thought they should be coming to this. So for instance, our chapter in Houston is formed in and and all the people in the chapter are people who worked in the oil **[04:09]** industry. They worked at Exxon Mobile. they worked at Chevron. I don't think we would have been opening to having a chapter like that if if the incredible work with Dr. Heiho of saying people can come to this how they come to it, not how we think that they should. So, what I'm going to do is just go over some of the really broad issues that have affected ours uh chapters, both growing and uh adding chapters. And that I want to spend as much time as possible, as **[04:39]** Brooke said, is answering any questions you have. You know, we had this other major discovery about 12 years ago where we found out if they we were interested in what other people had to say, we [laughter and clears throat] could maybe be more successful with him. So, one example was we had been meeting with a member of Congress who was a former Marine. So, for three years, we had briefed him on the connection between climate change and national security. Makes sense. Former Marine, right? So then we had the idea, well, why don't we **[05:10]** ask his staff what actually concerns him about climate change? And just as what we expected, his staff said agriculture. [laughter] So we had been briefing him on the wrong thing for years. So hopefully I'll be able to answer some questions that will help you in the in the development of your chapter. So here's some of the general things that that we learned. You know Joan Bayz is the person who's attributed with the line action is the antidote to despair. We have always focused on people being **[05:41]** in action. So like all those postcards postcards you guys collected and and what Brooke was talking about you guys didn't ring your hands when things didn't look what good last July you got into action. So we have are very much focused on people being in action doing something. Uh early on anytime if even people would submit a draft letter to the editor of newspaper even if it didn't get published we would lose our minds over people were doing something because we we felt that people being in action was so important. **[06:14]** Second is in 2011 uh a gentleman named Rob Willers published a paper called apocalypse soon dire messages are counterproductive on global warming he was teaching at Berkeley then I believe that he's teaching at Stanford now here's what his study showed his study showed if all you do is give people the doom and gloom about global warming they tend to say I'm not so sure that's right I think my friend who said the planet just goes through natural cycles **[06:44]** understands this better than you. You can give people all the doom and gloom you want, but the moment you introduce a solution into the discussion, that same person will say, "I finally met somebody who understands the issue." So, we became very focused on [clears throat] all of our discussions with people being solutionsoriented. Then there's a great uh American political scientist by the name of Hari Han. Hari Han uh studies uh social movements and one of the things she's **[07:15]** discovered that's consistent in successful social movements is they're not transactional. They don't just ask people to do something. What they do is in addition to asking people to do something, they provide a community. So it's almost like the only thing that matters is the mission, but at the same time the only thing that matters is the people. We found that that was absolutely uh essential to our success is to us to be curious to be interested to be absolutely committed to our **[07:45]** people's success not just in their advocacy but in their life. Then um the the other thing that I think is maybe the most important is we said we were going to take a long-term approach with people. Um, I think Tom Moyer from Utah has been on this call before and talked about bipartisanship. So, that's such an interesting thing in Utah. So, they have been meeting with their member of the House for a long time. They go on long hikes with him. Uh, he's now a **[08:15]** member of the Senate. And he told them, "I can't vote for what you want me to work on." And so, what their answer to that was, "Spend more time with him. Take more long hikes with him." >> [laughter] >> So what we've said is is they might not be able to do what we want them to do right now, but we're taking the long-term approach in relationships both with members of Congress and other people in the chapter. So that that what we're really building for is the long term. You know, there's a lot of people you're going to meet with who are never going to be able to vote for what you want, but maybe they just don't **[08:47]** ferociously fight it as they would have. So we we believe that taking the long-term approach is crucial. And then the last thing is we believe adding people and adding chapters is absolutely essential because you never know who's going to be the next person that comes up with some innovation in tableabling or outreach or advocacy or training. You know, we used to um before COVID, we would have people sign in and say how many people were there in their chapter and it was a lot easier for people to meet together. So it would standardly go **[09:17]** Seattle 8, Chicago 12, Toronto 15, Portland 30, Salt Lake City 24, Raleigh 1 [laughter] for for over a year. Every month it was Raleigh one. [laughter] Eventually he cracked the code and figured out how to recruit people. But more importantly, that gentleman created some of the most important trainings in in all of our organization. So it was really, you know, you never know who is **[09:47]** going to be that next person that's going to come up with something that's going to be crucial for the entire organization. So we think that adding people uh adding new people to the chapter, adding new chapters is is absolutely uh crucial. So let me let me just pause there and see what kinds of things that you would like to ask. >> Well, I I'd be curious for some of the your the CCL chapters. I this there may have been a CCL chapter I heard about in like San Francisco or Sacramento where **[10:17]** they would get together for dinner every month and and they just had a really robust number of members. Are there like things like you know innovations that you made that you saw that were like oh that you know they're they're creating some community community there that's drawing in some people. uh any any examples like that that you can lift up for us? >> Yeah, it's so interesting because the chapters are so different. You know, some of them are five to 10 people and have always been five to 10 people, but you're you're **[10:49]** right, San Francisco and Sacramento both end up with very large chapters and did end up with uh social structures, but they also created some really interesting things. So, for instance, a lot of the bigger chapters started to have more than one group leader. So it was uh more than one person sharing the responsibility or having a steering committee or creating different committees with accountabilities inside the chapter. So there'd be a media team and there'd be an outreach team and there'd be a sometimes even a **[11:19]** fundraising team. It it's it's I think really crucial because you need to give everybody something they can do and people are way different. You know, some people don't want to go to a lobby meeting. Um, some people are good writers and they just want to write. So, it's it really is about uh I think giving room for the chapters to uh develop and innovate like that. >> Great. Great. Thanks. That's helpful. I see. We'll go with Jeff Spencer and **[11:51]** then Katherine. So I'm wondering about um the whole role of connections internally within an individual chapter an individual affiliate. Um, one of the challenges that we have, uh, in the group that I'm part of, East Bay Climb Hope, affiliate, um, is that we cover a large geographic area and so getting together physically, **[12:21]** you know, in on site with one another, um, is a big investment of time commuting, uh, you know, some, you know, people are going to have to commute to get there. And um so we've been meeting online and we've had real inconsistent attendance. So I'm wondering if you have something to say about um about building internal strength within a chapter. >> God, that's such a good question because you know, you're right. We have a we we have some chapters where it just doesn't **[12:53]** work geographically for them to get together. So the question is [laughter] Okay, there you are. Um, you know, it's it's obviously harder to build those kind of relationships when it's been done virtually than when you could actually be in person. There is there is something that can happen in person that is easier to create connections. But we've we have a lot of chapters who can only meet virtually. They it just geographically it doesn't make any sense. And so the the the thing with it is it's kind of like [clears throat] **[13:24]** what Brooks was talking about at the start of the call. You just have to hang in there and stick with it. And the other thing to know is [clears throat] we've found that the people who end up over time sustaining a chapter are not always the ones who are there at the start. So you may think that you've got the right people to start, but then what you'll find is that you actually a add people that are the right people for you to work with on a long-term basis. And it I think there's got to be two things there. One is is what you're working on is so important, but that these are **[13:54]** people that you want to work with. Um, and so that that might take some time and just just be be willing to be patient that there's some people that might be there initially that aren't the right people. >> Great. All right, we'll go with to Katherine in Oakland and then we'll go to Edward's Church. Um, and I'm wondering, well, I'm I am wondering if you can um recall like what was the most what were the most powerful types of events that were um **[14:26]** uh created for the public to interface with the public as far as getting people uh interested in the topic and doing some kind of action? Would it be more like tableabling or uh one-on-one um talks, you know, or online or or what kind of things would were the more powerful actions >> that again I mean that is such a fantastic question. Um oh my gosh, **[14:56]** Caesar Chavez, you know, probably the greatest organizer in the history of our country was asked once what was the key to building a grassroots movement? And he said, "I talked to one person. When I'm done talking to that person, I talk to the next person." And he [laughter] said, "No, no, no, no, no, no. How do you feel thousands of people?" He said, "I talk to one person. [laughter] When I'm done talking to one person, I knock to the next person." So, in terms of bringing people along, there is always going to be that one-on-one **[15:28]** element. But in terms of recruitment, what you're always looking for is opportunities. So our chapters are tableabling all the time. You know, one of the most successful things we've ever had was when there are big climate marches and [laughter] one of the things we discovered if you stand with the clipboard by the restroom, you [laughter] can you can get a lot of names because there's always a big line of people there. So there's the you know there is what are the opportunities to get out in front of people so you can get people that you **[15:59]** need to talk to. But then ultimately we believe that Caesar Chavez is right that is about one-on-one. It's about sitting down with someone. It's about finding out what they're interested in, finding out what's important in their life and and just bringing them as a one-on-one basis. But that really, you know, it's we tabled at films, we tabled it at farmers markets. Uh again, we we were heavily at any climate march, you know, just anywhere where there were people who we thought had the same concern we we did. uh we would be there and then **[16:30]** just trying to find interesting ways to get them to come to our um booth rather than other people's booths. So I don't know if you how familiar you are with the Yale 360 project but they've identified six categories that Americans are in everything from alarm to dissent interested and so we would give people a chance to write down what category they're in. It was just a way of getting them engaged. Or one time uh when I was there at Baloa Park where Earth Day is in San Diego, we just had little bubble **[17:01]** blowing things and every little kid wants a bubble thing so their kids would stop and we get a chance to talk to their parents. >> Nice. Nice. Well, we'll know you you've had an impact on us when all our members are hanging outside bathrooms and restrooms. So, [laughter] that's good. All right. So um it's it's why experimentation is so important um and that you keep talking to each other and find out how people have been successful. Um first of all um parents **[17:33]** with young kids are not good candidates for advocacy. [laughter] They as you said for them it's just getting through [laughter] another week. I have five grandsons and um you know their parents are you know they're completely overwhelmed with raising their children and I'd love them to be way more interested in participating in the work that I'm in. Uh but really uh if you study advocacy uh the ideal candidate for someone to be **[18:03]** an advocate is a middle-aged woman. Why a middle-aged woman? uh one um they've been through they're battle tested uh and they've been playing at a disadvantage for most of their life. So um you want as many of those as you can get. Um but uh you know uh I wouldn't I wouldn't worry about the the young parents. I mean that they literally they don't they just don't have the time and they're not they don't they can't make the time right now. they will some point **[18:35]** later in their life. But um you know you are looking for people who either are younger or uh in a lot of cases it's great to get people who are like I am where I'm retired. I have time um and I can spend my time on on advocacy. >> Great. Great. Well, we have unfortunately come to the end of our time. We are so grateful Mark for all the wisdom that you have shared with us. It's been terrific. uh you know I feel like I could be asking you questions for **[19:06]** days to to kind of draw out wisdom. So we are so appreciative you're coming today and uh really uh I I think also in your comments though like when you're talking about how you're in a state of retirement I I think you're also volunteering to to volunteer for us, right? I think >> absolutely. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We'll we'll start up the chapter in San Diego. Great. >> So thank you so much for for joining us. >> Thank you. Thanks for having me. I'd love to come back anytime if it would be of use to you guys. >> Awesome.