After Pulse: What's Changed Since Community Pulse Started!  ## Metadata - Author: [[Community Pulse]] - Full Title: After Pulse: What's Changed Since Community Pulse Started! - Category: #podcasts - URL: https://share.snipd.com/episode/b236fb6c-c1ab-45a2-a097-9da8392d6f31 ## Document Notes ## Highlights - **100 Episodes And Gratitude** - The hosts celebrated reaching 100 episodes and reflected on sticking with the show through tough times. - PJ, Wesley, Jason, and Mary emphasize gratitude to listeners and guests for sustaining the podcast. Transcript: PJ Hagerty Welcome to After Pulse, the extra podcast from the hosts of the Community Pulse. Let's hear what your hosts are talking about in this episode. What a great 100 episodes. Like we've done it. We've made 100 episodes of a show. And that doesn't even include the after pulses. The after pulses are extra. So like we've actually done more than 100, but this is the official 100th episode. We've done it. We are across the finish line. And I would just like to say to everyone who's ever listened and any guest who's ever been on, you're welcome. Wesley Faulkner As a person that fits in both columns. Thank you. Thank you. Mary Thengvall That's a pretty huge milestone for sure. Wesley Faulkner It's wild. PJ Hagerty Like, we dipped into this a little bit, but I remember first being on the show and being like, this is such a cool idea. Like, I should probably listen to more podcasts. And looking around, like, there really wasn't any other DevRel podcast. So, like, I guess I'll listen to this. But, like, a week later, it was like, oh, I guess I'm a host. And it was like such a, it was an honor to be even invited to be a guest, much less be a host. But just seeing like the way that things have changed over the years, but watch the, like the fact that we've continued to persevered on. And maybe this is a little bit behind the scenes stuff, but there were times when it wasn't looking so good and we were thinking maybe it's time to shut down the community pulse. But we persevered through trials and triumphs. Here we are at 100 episodes. ([Time 0:00:05](https://share.snipd.com/snip/97609fad-c69e-4c52-a691-5e931f045d9f)) - **A LinkedIn Recon‑nection Reawakens Early Web Vibes** - Wesley shared reconnecting with a friend after 13 years on LinkedIn and how easy the conversation felt. - He contrasted that openness with the current web landscape and said the podcast preserves that earlier human connection. Transcript: Wesley Faulkner So earlier this week, I announced something on LinkedIn, and I've gotten people to reach out to me. And one of them was a friend when, you know, when you get a message on LinkedIn, the chat has all your chat history. And the previous time that we chatted was 13 years ago. And I said, yeah, yeah, let's. And we just had a conversation that was so easy. That was so like light and it, and we just got right into it. And it reminds me of the earlier days, the earlier web where you connected with people and people wanted to reach out and people wanted to be received. And those days are like, I think we're the minority, but this podcast is, feels like it is of that ilk is of that era where we're talking reality. We're not sugarcoating things. And we're having some sort of conversations rather than trying to sell you something or trying to convert you to something else, or try to figure out how we can manipulate you for our Own like financial gain or to get more clicks or views and all that stuff. And I think that this this is a home base for people to feel safe, to feel supported. ([Time 0:07:48](https://share.snipd.com/snip/8429e039-a028-437d-983c-ff7c0cc43b76)) - **Prioritize Audio And Invest In Equipment** - Improve podcast quality by focusing on the distribution formats people actually use. - Move away from low-impact channels like YouTube for audio-first shows and invest in better audio equipment. Transcript: PJ Hagerty Fair. Initially, everything was about let's get it on YouTube, but we realized no one was watching on YouTube. Everyone was listening on audio, distributing through Fireside, whatever we do. What would we use before then? Libsyn. Libsyn. Like all the different, the website, the look of it, the feel of things, the shuffling. Know of course during coven we all bought better equipment yeah we were home and like hey i do need an arm to hold my microphone it's 100 necessary um because i think when we started we were Using like whatever the built-in mic was on your computer and if you have plug-in headphones awesome but well and i have a distinct memory of using my little jabra jabra whatever you Mary Thengvall Used to call it the little like portable microphone that you set in the middle of a table that at the time was like this is fantastic this is hot shit right now like like a snowball what's It so it was like yeah it was a snowball it was similar that was one of them too but this was, it started with a J. I think it was Jabra. And Rain, Leander and I happened to be at a conference together and they were a guest. And so we put that in the middle of the table and recorded from an Airbnb and got the audio back and went, oh, that audio is terrible. We should never do that again. ([Time 0:09:43](https://share.snipd.com/snip/fee4c13a-3e2c-4ce8-acdd-67af6e647364)) - **Three Eras Shaped DevRel** - Jason frames DevRel's last decade in three eras: early exploration, COVID disruption, and current reflection. - He says shared trauma from layoffs and upheaval created lessons and deeper community bonding. Transcript: Jason Hand And from its perspective, there was kind of like three eras or three, you know, phases over those 10 year period or that 10 year period. And the first one was, I agree with most of this, I would say is the first period was very, you know, new, we're still getting our feet under us. We're still having those like conversations about how do we measure this stuff? You know, if we're out in the community and a lot of the things that we're doing are really hall, you know, track, hallway track type of conversations. And this was pre-COVID. So we were actually traveling and doing a lot more stuff. And that was, you know, that was sort of phase one. And we were all feeling around trying to understand what's going on here. How does this work? And then we got to the COVID phase and, you know, everything changed. And, and I think through a lot of that, it wasn't just COVID, then all of a sudden the economy was a little bit different and we started seeing layoffs and the vibe just changed, you know, And it just, it wasn't for the better. Hard phase. But some of us came out with scars, and maybe we're okay. And some of us moved on to some other things. But then I think what it identified the era that we're in right now is this like self reflection, but also recognizing the turmoil that's been going on within DevRel and within community, Because there's just been a lot and some of it's still, you know, remnants of the economy and just changes in leadership and all levels, you know, around the world. And, you know, things are just, you know, not great necessarily for everybody in certain ways. And DevRel and community work, they feel it for sure. And everybody on this show has got some deep wounds from some of the things that have happened. So anyway, all that is to say, I think we have all, we've got this shared trauma that has sort of kept us together also. And we've learned from that. And hopefully we've tried to do a good job of like sharing our experiences and, you know, trying to give some lessons about what we've experienced and, uh, and yeah, keep everybody moving Forward. ([Time 0:12:49](https://share.snipd.com/snip/305b4065-dc9e-475b-9129-4fdfa5682440)) - **Metrics Need A Clear Purpose** - PJ highlights that metrics without purpose are meaningless and can mislead teams. - He urges leaders to ask what they'll actually do with spikes in traffic before measuring them. Transcript: PJ Hagerty It's interesting you mentioned that, Jay, because one of the things that I've talked to people recently in, like, interviews and a few other things is they always say, okay, so what Kind of metrics would you look at, you know, when you're building a dev rel team? What kind of metrics would you look at? And I say, well, what kind of metrics do you think are interesting? They're like, well, we want more people to come to the blog. Cool, great. Then what are you going to do with them? Let's just say, for example, 500% increase on blog readers. Now, what are you going to do with them? And they're like, what do you mean? Well, I brought you the thing that you wanted, but you don't know, frankly, what the fuck to do with it and you're going to blame that on me it's that you can't expect me to bring all my friends Jason Hand To an ([Time 0:15:36](https://share.snipd.com/snip/c17ef2a5-d473-4e7f-b088-05791914ad94)) - **Design DevRel As Conversation, Not Factory Work** - Treat DevRel as conversation and negotiation rather than a repeatable factory process. - Avoid forcing cookie-cutter metrics and instead design bespoke approaches for each community. Transcript: Wesley Faulkner Think it also, there is a part like that the outside world who's in DevRel and the inside us community that really are deep practitioners and kind of, I think, are the spirit bearers of DevRel. And the difference is that the spirit of DevRel is that realness and community and the sense of care and compassion for people who are not just in this area, but are users and every part Of it. And when the external like rigid corporate kind of like monetization of this practice kind of misses is that they want a repeated formula. They want the steps, like where do I start? What are the metrics? All that stuff. And they don't realize it's a conversation. It is a negotiation. It is a reevaluation. It's bespoke. It's going to stay the test of time for every situations, in all cases, everywhere. And that's why it's very important to keep that conversation, to keep that information flowing. And I don't think people realize that. They say, I'm not getting wet. Why do I need this umbrella? And they dump DevRel. And that's when they find out that why is this falling apart? Why is this no longer working? Because they think they got it. They think they did it. ([Time 0:18:26](https://share.snipd.com/snip/a06394c6-6b61-4870-80f5-825b7d79ee81)) - **Profit Pressure Conflicts With Relationship Work** - Jason notes capitalism's profit mandate often conflicts with relationship-driven DevRel. - He warns short-term OKRs can damage long-term social capital and trust. Transcript: Jason Hand Well, I think a lot of companies don't realize that you have the capital of your company, especially for any of us who work at publicly traded companies, like, guess what, they're legally Obligated to optimize for maximum profits. And that is at direct conflict with relationships. So you could just make the argument that capitalism doesn't really play well with DevRel. But here we are, we still work for, you know, and try to help so what can we do to like shift that conversation so that we can create the right proxies that show you know we're here to help We help help first sell last that's all probably in like half of our vision statements so why are you pushing us to do something that feels out of balance with that because there's this Social capital that your company has and you're going to burn it all on bullshit and you can't get it back so like do i just need to speak your language because you're not speaking mine Like i'm happy to come to the table with something that makes sense for you but you can't keep trying to put metrics that are like short-term okr minded things that actually is going to Fuck something up 10 years from now. ([Time 0:20:22](https://share.snipd.com/snip/2e79395a-b8cd-4d28-8ab1-c3902ff7293b)) - **From Influencer Hype Back To Technical Teaching** - PJ argues DevRel swung too far toward influencer-style marketing and suffered trust fractures. - He predicts a return to technical education and re-teaching developers how to use new technologies effectively. Transcript: PJ Hagerty But I think that DevRel has gone through some iterations. I feel like most recently went through a really rough time where it became marketing. Became influencer marketing and that frankly failed, which caused another fracture of trust with upper management. I think we're about to see a resurgence of trying to help people understand how to use technology because right now, especially with AI being super prevalent, people are using it and Abusing it in all kinds of wrong ways, completely misunderstanding what it actually does. And we need to re-educate developers on how it can help them and maybe re-educate a few executives on how it's not going to replace the developers. ([Time 0:23:19](https://share.snipd.com/snip/2ca6793c-4b0c-4ca4-9c1c-48f03d07ca52)) - **AI Raises Need For Human Guidance** - Wesley and Jason say AI increases demand for human communication and guidance. - They expect DevRel to lead in teaching best practices and guiding new, broader user bases. Transcript: Wesley Faulkner One of the quotes from The Incredibles that I love is that when everyone's super, no one will be. And I think that a lot of people are getting superpowers with these AI tools, where instead of being on a mountain or mysterious coders or programmers or developers and engineers, people Can realize that it is more approachable. Do you do best practices of using these tools? Because we will find new users and they will have to be guided. They would have to be listened to. And the things that, I'm going to say this frankly, that developers in the past have put up with, when you start bringing that to the masses, that's not going to fly, right? So there's going to be new problems because of this. And I think that is where developer relations shines. It's the finding ideas in what people want, being able to articulate that and be able to communicate that. And that's the human connection thing. And that's where I think we will move into and develop. 100%. ([Time 0:24:17](https://share.snipd.com/snip/3059deff-8153-4a66-ad21-5b71082fc5c4)) - **You Can’t Remove DevRel From A Person** - Mary and others explain many people 'leave' DevRel in title but keep doing the work. - Mary describes community activities as intrinsic motivation, not a job title, sharing personal examples like leading a camp at Burning Man. Transcript: PJ Hagerty And that to me is the real, that's the genesis of developer relations. Just a bunch of people saying, hey, we've got these tools. Let's talk about how we're using them so we can all get on the same page. Mary Thengvall Well, and I think it was the genesis of developer relations. And even for folks who have now, quote unquote, left the DevRel industry, right? They don't have a DevRel title anymore, myself included. We're still doing all of those things. PJ Hagerty This is Hotel California. You can check in, but you can never check out. Mary Thengvall Exactly. Well, and I think that's part of right like i've always said when i've you know when i was hiring for a team like the people that i look for i care far more about what's your motivation what Have you done in past roles that show me that you're interested in creating resources and helping people uh you know find value in the product, in helping them use the product more easily, In creating a community of people who can share resources, right? Like, show me that, and I will choose that every day over a DevRel professional who has been here for years, and all they want to do is speak at conferences, right? Because that's not actually, it can, it doesn't ever, but it doesn't actually help the current community of users nearly as much as the other activities do. And so I wonder too, if we're, I don't know, not heading back to, but more and more people are realizing regardless of the title they hold, whether it's program manager like mine is, whether It's engineer, whether it's support, whether it's post sales consulting, or if it is a developer relations role, that there are certain activities, certain patterns, certain things That we all are very driven to do and passionate about doing. And we find each other because we're seeing each other do similar things and going, wait, how did that work for you? Because I'm interested about X, Y, and Z. And so I think that's been part of the fascinating thing for me. And something I know I've expressed to you all a couple times is this idea of like, are we back in a place of DevRel doesn't have to be a title. It's the passion and the motivation and the activities that you do as a result of that. And I'm sure that that's not going to be a popular opinion for people who are looking for jobs right now. And I understand. But yeah, Wes just put in the chat, you can take a person out of DevRel, but you can't take the DevRel out of the person, right? Like, this is what we want to do. And this is what we tend to do in our personal lives, as well as our professional lives. Like, I'm about to sign off for vacation to go help lead an 80 person camp at burning man, like because of community, because I bring people together. Like it's, it's in our blood. Jason Hand Make sure you bring back a report on the impact. PJ Hagerty Yeah. What's the ROI on that, Mary? ([Time 0:27:43](https://share.snipd.com/snip/5e904c6a-9d61-49d6-8e85-8d8fee9e3973)) - **Ask For Feedback And Read Every Message** - Ask listeners for feedback and keep channels open to hear from your community. - PJ explicitly requests reviews and direct emails to maintain engagement and show the podcast matters. Transcript: PJ Hagerty Send us an email to any one of our first names at communitypulse.io. I read those emails. I read every email we get, as everyone who's in this thing knows. I will read every email we get, and most of it's spam. So send us a not spam email. Let us know what you think of the podcast. We know you're listening. We see the numbers. Yeah. Like this has been fun. Let's do another a hundred episodes. ([Time 0:32:02](https://share.snipd.com/snip/2e65b77c-f17f-4465-8003-fc04fd3222d0))