Allie Beth Stuckey Tries to Debunk Progressive Christianity. FAILS MISERABLY

Allie Beth Stuckey Tries to Debunk Progressive Christianity. FAILS MISERABLY 🔗 **Source:** [Allie Beth Stuckey Tries to Debunk Progressive Christianity. FAILS MISERABLY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pP4eAU7JaE0) > [!note]+ Document Notes > tags: [christian-nationalism, progressive-christianity, biblical-interpretation] > author: Tim Whitaker > source: YouTube > reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pP4eAU7JaE0 > date created: 2025-01-23 16:30 > > # 🏷️ Title: Allie Beth Stuckey Tries to Debunk Progressive Christianity. FAILS MISERABLY >  ## 🧰 Action Inbox - [H1] Research PRRI's Christian nationalism survey methodology — validates progressive critique #christian-nationalism - [H2] Read Andrew Whitehead's "American Idolatry" for scholarly definition — counters Stuckey's straw man #progressive-christianity - [H3] Fact-check executive order claims — Trump vs Biden/Obama comparison #fact-checking ## 🧭 Table of Contents - [📝 Summary](#-summary) - [📖 Main Content](#-main-content) - [🗒️ Notes](#️-notes) - [📚 References](#-references) - [🗣️ Paraphrase](#️-paraphrase) - [📰 Newsletter](#-newsletter) - [✅ Action Items](#-action-items) - [🧪 Hypotheses](#-hypotheses) - [📊 Methodology](#-methodology) - [❓ Questions](#-questions) - [🔮 Future Research](#-future-research) - [💡 Implications](#-implications) - [🧠 Learning Styles Assessment](#-learning-styles-assessment) - [📊 Accessibility Assessment](#-accessibility-assessment) - [🌍 DEIB Assessment](#-deib-assessment) - [✅ Logical Validity](#-logical-validity) - [🛡️ DARVO Analysis](#-darvo-analysis) - [🎯 Conclusion](#-conclusion) ### 🔗 References - [Original Video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pP4eAU7JaE0) - [PRRI Survey Data](https://www.prri.org/) - [American Idolatry by Andrew Whitehead](https://books.google.com) ## 📝 Summary - Progressive Christian Tim Whitaker responds to conservative commentator Allie Beth Stuckey's critique of progressive Christianity - Stuckey argues that supporting ICE operations isn't Christian nationalism and that progressive Christians are "so-called" Christians - Whitaker counters with scholarly definitions of Christian nationalism and biblical interpretation challenges - Key tension over who defines authentic Christianity and proper biblical application to politics - Demonstrates deep theological divide between progressive and conservative Christian worldviews ## 📖 Main Content Tim Whitaker, a progressive Christian who previously debated Stuckey on Jubilee, provides a detailed response to her podcast attacking progressive Christianity. Stuckey attempts to defend ICE operations and challenge the Christian nationalism label while questioning the authenticity of progressive Christians. Whitaker counters by citing academic research on Christian nationalism, pointing out theological inconsistencies in Calvinist thinking, and arguing that Stuckey's selective biblical interpretation fails to address systemic justice issues. The debate reveals fundamental disagreements about biblical authority, government role, and what constitutes authentic Christian witness. ## 🗒️ Notes #### ⏱️ [00:00](https://youtu.be/pP4eAU7JaE0?t=0) — Introduction and Setup - Key idea: Progressive Christian responds to conservative evangelical critique - Evidence: "I grew up deeply embedded in the conservative Christian evangelical bubble" #### ⏱️ [02:30](https://youtu.be/pP4eAU7JaE0?t=150) — Stuckey's "So-Called" Progressive Christians - Key idea: Conservative gatekeeping of Christian identity - Evidence: "Notice how she says so-called progressive Christians" #### ⏱️ [05:45](https://youtu.be/pP4eAU7JaE0?t=345) — Calvinist Theology Critique - Key idea: Predestination doctrine creates moral contradictions - Evidence: "If God is all powerful, all knowing, and all good... that's not a good God" #### ⏱️ [08:12](https://youtu.be/pP4eAU7JaE0?t=492) — ICE Operations Defense - Key idea: Stuckey conflates border enforcement with mass deportation raids - Evidence: "Armed federal agents being sent to largely blue states to wreak havoc" #### ⏱️ [12:20](https://youtu.be/pP4eAU7JaE0?t=740) — Christian Nationalism Definition - Key idea: Stuckey redefines terms rather than engaging scholarship - Evidence: "I don't think she's read any actual book on Christian nationalism" #### ⏱️ [15:30](https://youtu.be/pP4eAU7JaE0?t=930) — PRRI Survey Data - Key idea: Empirical research defines Christian nationalism differently than Stuckey - Evidence: "30% of Americans either are sympathetic to those five statements or fully adhere to them" #### ⏱️ [18:45](https://youtu.be/pP4eAU7JaE0?t=1125) — Biblical Authority Claims - Key idea: Genesis 1:1 used to justify political positions - Evidence: "If God created all of it, he's the authority over all of it" #### ⏱️ [22:10](https://youtu.be/pP4eAU7JaE0?t=1330) — Nationalism vs Globalism - Key idea: America First ideology conflicts with Christian universalism - Evidence: "Jesus sets no such precedent for his followers to prioritize Rome" #### ⏱️ [25:40](https://youtu.be/pP4eAU7JaE0?t=1540) — Scripture Cherry-Picking - Key idea: Jeremiah 29:7 misapplied to justify American exceptionalism - Evidence: "This is what colonization is... you pillage it for your own personal gain" #### ⏱️ [28:15](https://youtu.be/pP4eAU7JaE0?t=1695) — Immigration and Biblical Welcome - Key idea: Over 100 biblical references support welcoming immigrants - Evidence: "The call to welcome the stranger is rooted in who God is" #### ⏱️ [32:20](https://youtu.be/pP4eAU7JaE0?t=1940) — Separation of Church and State - Key idea: Constitutional principle protects religious freedom for all - Evidence: "Our country is run by the Constitution. That does not mention God, Jesus, or the Bible" #### ⏱️ [35:50](https://youtu.be/pP4eAU7JaE0?t=2150) — Romans 13 Misapplication - Key idea: Government authority verse selectively applied - Evidence: "5-year-old Liam did nothing wrong. Alex Prey did nothing wrong" #### ⏱️ [40:30](https://youtu.be/pP4eAU7JaE0?t=2430) — Executive Power Expansion - Key idea: Trump expanded federal power more than predecessors - Evidence: "Trump in a year and a half has had 221 executive orders" #### ⏱️ [43:45](https://youtu.be/pP4eAU7JaE0?t=2625) — God's Law Interpretation - Key idea: Selective biblical application ignores justice themes - Evidence: "There are over a hundred references to welcome the immigrant" ## 📚 References - [PRRI American Values Atlas](https://www.prri.org/research/american-values-atlas/) - [American Idolatry by Andrew Whitehead](https://academic.oup.com/book/45567) - [Color of Compromise by Jemar Tisby](https://www.zondervan.com/9780310597261/the-color-of-compromise/) - [Jesus and John Wayne by Kristin Kobes Du Mez](https://www.liveright.com/book/9781631495731/jesus-and-john-wayne) ## 🗣️ Paraphrase - Conservative evangelical Allie Beth Stuckey attempts to discredit progressive Christianity by redefining Christian nationalism and questioning progressive Christians' authenticity - Progressive Christian Tim Whitaker responds by citing academic research showing that Christian nationalism is a documented cultural framework, not Stuckey's simplified definition - The fundamental disagreement centers on biblical interpretation, with Stuckey claiming objective truth while practicing selective hermeneutics that ignores justice themes ## 📰 Newsletter **When Conservative and Progressive Christians Clash: Lessons in Biblical Interpretation** This week's theological debate highlights crucial questions about Christian identity and biblical authority in public life. While conservative evangelicals like Allie Beth Stuckey claim exclusive access to biblical truth, progressive Christians demonstrate that Scripture's justice themes challenge narrow political applications. Key takeaway: Both sides interpret Scripture, but only one acknowledges doing so. Honest biblical engagement requires recognizing our interpretive lenses while staying accountable to the text's central themes of justice, mercy, and welcome. **Practical applications:** - Study biblical themes holistically rather than proof-texting - Engage scholarly research on contested topics like Christian nationalism - Practice hermeneutical humility while maintaining theological conviction Resources: [Society of Biblical Literature](https://www.sbl-site.org/), [Christians for Social Action](https://www.christiansforsocialaction.org/), [Sojourners](https://sojourners.com/) ## ✅ Action Items #### DevRel - Developer advocacy: Create educational content on fact-checking theological claims - Education: Develop workshops on biblical interpretation methods - Developer experience: Build tools for accessing scholarly theological resources - Developer marketing: Promote critical thinking approaches to religious content - Community management: Moderate theological discussions with nuance #### Community - Maintainers: Support diverse theological perspectives in faith-based communities - Contributors: Encourage fact-based responses to religious misinformation - Sponsors: Fund academic research on religion and politics intersection - Ecosystem: Bridge progressive and conservative Christian dialogue initiatives #### WordPress - Documentation: Create style guides for discussing controversial theological topics - Community: Develop guidelines for faith-based content creators - Training: Offer courses on digital literacy for religious communities ## 🧪 Hypotheses - Conservative evangelicals redefine academic terms to avoid engaging substantive critiques - Biblical literalists practice selective interpretation while claiming objectivity - Christian nationalism correlates with support for authoritarian government expansion - Progressive Christians demonstrate greater theological consistency on justice issues ### 📊 Methodology - Content analysis of theological arguments comparing scriptural citations - Survey research on Christian nationalism using established PRRI methodology - Historical analysis of constitutional principles versus theological claims - Longitudinal study of biblical interpretation consistency across political contexts ### ❓ Questions - How do conservative evangelicals reconcile selective biblical interpretation with claims of objective truth? - What role does academic theological scholarship play in popular Christian discourse? - Can Christian nationalism be reformed or must it be rejected entirely? ### 🔮 Future Research - Comparative study of global Christian nationalism movements - Analysis of theological education's impact on political engagement - Investigation of social media's role in theological polarization ### 💡 Implications - Practice: Religious content creators need fact-checking accountability - Policy: Separation of church and state protects all faith communities - Security: Christian nationalist ideology poses threats to pluralistic democracy - Education: Theological literacy essential for civic engagement - Funding: Academic research on religion requires continued support ### 🧠 Learning Styles Assessment Reading level estimate: 12th Grade #### 👀 Visual learners - Present: Video response format with on-screen citations - Improve: Infographics comparing theological positions, timeline of constitutional history #### 🔊 Aural learners - Present: Audio commentary with passionate delivery - Improve: Podcast version with chapter markers, interview follow-ups #### 🗣️ Verbal learners - Present: Clear definitions, theological terminology, scripture quotations - Improve: Glossary of terms, comparative theology charts #### 🧩 Kinesthetic learners - Present: Pause-and-respond format engaging viewers actively - Improve: Interactive bible study guides, fact-checking worksheets #### 🧠 Logical learners - Present: Sequential argument analysis, data citations from PRRI - Improve: Logical fallacy identification, argument mapping diagrams #### 🧑‍🤝‍🧑 Social learners - Present: Response format encouraging community discussion - Improve: Small group discussion guides, interfaith dialogue prompts #### 🧘‍♀️ Solitary learners - Present: Individual reflection prompts, personal testimony elements - Improve: Journaling questions for theological reflection, self-assessment tools #### 🌿 Naturalistic learners - Present: Justice themes connecting faith to environmental stewardship - Improve: Creation care connections, ecological theology resources ### 📊 Accessibility Assessment #### Screen reader semantics - Present: Clear headings structure, descriptive timestamps - Improve: Alt text for any visual citations, transcript availability #### Keyboard navigation - Present: Standard video player controls accessible - Improve: Skip navigation for lengthy responses, chapter bookmarks #### Contrast and readability - Present: High contrast text overlays when used - Improve: Closed caption formatting, larger text options #### Text resizing and reflow - Present: Responsive video player design - Improve: Transcript text sizing options, mobile optimization #### Media and captions - Present: Full transcript provided in notes section - Improve: Professional closed captions, downloadable transcript #### Forms and interactions - Present: Comment section accessible - Improve: Structured comment threading, moderation guidelines ### 🌍 DEIB Assessment #### Cultural breadth - Present: Acknowledges global Christian perspectives exist - Improve: Include international progressive Christian voices, non-Western theological perspectives #### Inclusive language - Present: Uses "they/them" pronouns appropriately, avoids derogatory terms - Improve: More explicit affirmation of LGBTQ+ Christians, diverse family structures #### Neurodiversity support - Present: Clear content structure with predictable format - Improve: Content warnings for intense theological debate, summary sections #### Representation - Present: Centers marginalized voices in progressive Christianity - Improve: Include voices of color, disabled Christians, economic diversity #### Psychological safety - Present: Respectful critique of ideas rather than personal attacks - Improve: Clearer community guidelines, trauma-informed approach to religious discussion ### ✅ Logical Validity #### Strong reasoning - Deductive strength: Syllogisms about biblical interpretation mostly valid - Inductive strength: PRRI survey data properly generalized to broader claims - Causal reasoning: Clear connections between theology and political outcomes - Analogical strength: Colonial metaphor for scripture appropriation effective #### Fallacies - Ad hominem: Occasional personal attacks on Stuckey's character rather than arguments - Straw man: Sometimes oversimplifies conservative positions for easier refutation - False dilemma: Presents progressive vs conservative as only two Christian options #### Tone of voice - Overall tone: Passionate but largely respectful, occasionally condescending toward opponent ### 🛡️ DARVO Analysis - Deny: Stuckey denies scholarly definitions of Christian nationalism exist - Attack: Attacks progressive Christians' authenticity and biblical literacy - Reverse victim/offender: Positions conservative Christians as persecuted minority - Emotional cues: Uses fear-based language about cultural decline and religious freedom ## 🎯 Conclusion This theological debate reveals fundamental disagreements about biblical authority, Christian identity, and proper relationship between faith and politics. While both sides claim scriptural backing, the progressive position demonstrates greater consistency with biblical justice themes and scholarly theological research. The conversation highlights the urgent need for honest hermeneutical practices that acknowledge interpretive frameworks while maintaining accountability to Scripture's central message of liberation and welcome for the marginalized. ## 🧱 Refactor Appendix ### 📚 Literature Split Pad Purpose: Stage CEE units that become Literature notes. Split level: H3 ### [H1] Christian nationalism requires scholarly definition not folk theology > [!quote] [Video Response](https://youtu.be/pP4eAU7JaE0) by [[Tim Whitaker]] via [[YouTube]]. Published 2025-01-23. Accessed 2025-01-23. > "PRRI measures Christian nationalism through specific survey questions about government declaring America Christian." Academic research provides empirical frameworks missing from popular discourse. [view highlight](https://youtu.be/pP4eAU7JaE0?t=930) #xref #articleseed ID:rw_cn_definition ### [H2] Biblical interpretation requires hermeneutical honesty > [!quote] [Video Response](https://youtu --- ## Full Transcript [00:00] What's up, friends? Welcome back to the [00:01] channel. Alli Beth Stucky, a right-wing [00:04] political commentator who also is deeply [00:06] involved in evangelical fundamentalism, [00:09] is currently crashing out. She's [00:11] crashing out. And she made an entire [00:14] podcast devoted to responding to [00:16] progressive Christians, in particular, [00:18] one or two different pastors. And I want [00:20] to go through the entire podcast, [00:23] sentence for sentence, to hear what she [00:25] has to say and to respond to it. Now, I [00:27] have not seen this video. I a friend of [00:30] mine sent it over to me and I said, "You [00:32] know what? This would be a perfect video [00:34] to respond to and put it on YouTube for [00:36] all of you to see." One of the reasons [00:38] why I'm kind of uniquely positioned to [00:40] answer this video is for two reasons. [00:42] Number one, I grew up deeply embedded in [00:44] the conservative Christian evangelical [00:47] bubble and I believed it. I was an [00:49] all-in Christian in that world. I since [00:53] deconstructed my theology and now I'm [00:56] much more progressive but still very [00:58] much Christian. And number two, I've had [01:00] the privilege of interviewing almost [01:01] every major scholar on this topic on the [01:04] New Evangelicals podcast. It's a [01:06] nonprofit that I founded in 2020, now [01:08] run by Melinda Hail, but I still host [01:11] that show as well. And over the years, [01:12] I've had the honor of talking to people [01:16] who really know their stuff. These are [01:18] the academics, the scholars who are very [01:20] careful in how they choose their words. [01:22] So, I want to go through this video [01:23] piece by piece. Please make sure to like [01:25] the video and uh comment along. I would [01:28] love to see what your thoughts are if [01:29] you enjoy this type of content. And [01:31] buckle up, friends. I have some I have [01:34] an idea of where we're going to be [01:36] heading in this video, but I don't know. [01:38] And like I said, it's an hour long, and [01:40] my goal is to get through the whole [01:41] thing, no matter how long it takes. So, [01:44] get the coffee, get the popcorn out. [01:47] Let's get started. I will be pausing [01:48] pretty frequently. I do this often. Just [01:51] a fair warning. Supporting ICE is [01:54] Christian nationalism and white [01:56] evangelicals are the source of all of [01:58] our problems. At least that's what [02:00] you're hearing on Instagram from the [02:01] so-called progressive Christians. Well, [02:03] don't worry. We are responding to all of [02:05] this and more on today's episode of [02:06] Relatable. [02:07] >> What a tease. First off, Ally, I mean, [02:10] the data does show that 80% of white [02:12] evangelicals do vote and support Trump [02:14] at any cost. So, yeah, I think it's [02:17] pretty easy to lay down all the chaos in [02:19] our world at the feet of the people who [02:21] voted for this. I mean, that's number [02:23] one. Number two, notice how she says [02:24] so-called progressive Christians. This [02:26] is what's going to be so fascinating. [02:28] You're going to watch Ally be very clear [02:29] that people like me and you are not real [02:31] Christians, but uh the people who abuse [02:34] others, the people who have credible [02:37] evidence that they protect other abusers [02:39] in the church, well, they're probably [02:41] good Christians. They just haven't seen [02:43] the light yet. You'll see more what what [02:45] I'm talking about as we go along. [02:53] Nancy. [02:54] >> Hey guys, welcome to Relatable. Happy [02:55] Monday. Hope everyone is having a [02:57] wonderful day so far. All right, I got [02:58] to tell you, God's eternal plan of [03:00] redemption is going off without a hitch. [03:01] It's still going off without a hitch on [03:03] this week, on this day. It is still [03:04] going off without a hitch. Nothing [03:05] surprises him or takes him back. Nothing [03:07] confuses him. Nothing throws him off. He [03:09] is sovereign over all of it. He is never [03:10] looking down and wondering how did you [03:12] get into this mess? What is going on? He [03:14] is allseeing. He is all knowing. And he [03:16] is working all things together for the [03:17] good of those who love him, who are [03:18] called according to his purpose. And [03:20] that is what we can trust that one day [03:21] there will be no more disagreement, no [03:23] more politics, no more debate because [03:25] Jesus is coming back. He wins and he [03:26] will rule in perfect peace forever. So [03:28] what is our role? It's not just to sit [03:30] on our hands and wait for that day. It's [03:32] to do the next right thing in faith with [03:33] excellence and for the glory of God. [03:35] When we don't know what to do, we don't [03:36] know how to make a difference. That's [03:37] what we can do because God uses the [03:39] unseen and unsung faithful acts of [03:41] obedience of believers to advance his [03:43] kingdom. Sometimes that's something [03:45] really public. Sometimes it's just [03:46] changing a diaper or washing dishes or [03:48] sending an email with joy and [03:49] excellence. So, I always like to start [03:51] out the week with that reminder. It's as [03:53] much for me as it is for you because [03:56] we're talking about things that can make [03:57] us angry, understandably, that can make [03:59] us sad and it can feel like the world is [04:00] going to hell in a hand basket. Uh but [04:02] actually, we know who wins in the end. [04:04] But as we are navigating the chaos of [04:06] this world, we have to remember as [04:07] Christians, we are called to be agents [04:09] of order and agents of clarity. We have [04:11] the opportunity when things are crazy [04:13] outside to be a refuge of strength and [04:15] truth. And so one thing that I really [04:17] like to do, I like might be a strong [04:19] word. One thing that I think is [04:20] necessary for me to do is to look at [04:22] some of the most prominent claims that [04:24] you are seeing, especi [04:25] >> Okay, let's pause here for a second. I [04:27] mean, we could spend two hours unpacking [04:29] what she just said, but I'll give you [04:30] kind of the cliff notes. Alli Stucky, [04:32] last time I checked, is a Calvinist. She [04:35] believes that God has ordained [04:37] everything that shall come to pass and [04:39] that everything that's happening is part [04:41] of God's good righteous plan towards the [04:45] end of the world where he will there [04:47] where he will then remake the world in [04:49] his image. The problem though is that [04:52] Ally doesn't really believe that because [04:53] as she says later on uh Christians like [04:56] her have an obligation to be part of [04:58] that work. But frankly, Ally could sit [05:00] on her hands and feet uh and do nothing [05:03] and God's eternal plan of redemption [05:06] would still go on without a hitch. Also, [05:08] Ally doesn't really believe this [05:10] whenever Democrats are in charge. [05:11] Whenever Joe Biden was president or [05:13] whenever Obama was president, etc., you [05:15] don't really get the same kind of, hey, [05:17] don't worry, it's all going it's all [05:19] going according to plan. You get a lot [05:20] of this is evil, we must stop this. So [05:23] this is a different kind of conversation [05:24] theologically. But I will tell you as a [05:26] former Calvinist myself, this mindset is [05:29] full of contradictions. It's p it's full [05:31] of paradoxes. And frankly, it paints God [05:33] to be a moral monster. Because if God is [05:35] all powerful, all knowing, and all good, [05:37] it has predestined some people to be to [05:41] be to be redeemed and to go to the good [05:43] place, heaven, while passing over the [05:46] rest of his creation because God is good [05:48] and just and that means that they're [05:50] going to burn in hell forever. That's [05:52] not a good God. [05:54] Just isn't. That's that that is not a [05:56] good God. Then Ally would say, "Well, [05:58] according to whose standard?" And I [06:00] would say, "Well, Ally, frankly, you're [06:01] also interpreting the Bible and coming [06:03] to these conclusions." So let's stop [06:05] pretending that you are somehow above, [06:07] you know, the uh interpretation or [06:08] speculation when you're doing the same [06:10] exact thing. Uh so anyway, keep that in [06:12] mind. I mean, that's part of her her [06:14] worldview. It's very important to know. [06:17] Um but also it is nonsensical and it [06:20] falls apart and her own actions betray [06:22] what she actually believes [06:24] >> on Instagram, especially from people who [06:27] are identifying as progressive [06:29] Christians and then rebutt them using [06:31] logic and using scripture. [06:33] >> Can't wait. I will say in some way this [06:35] is one of my favorite things to do and [06:36] that is why I thoroughly enjoyed my [06:38] three-hour debate on Jubilee. One [06:40] conservative Christian versus 20 [06:42] supposedly liberal Christians talking [06:44] about all of these things. [06:45] >> By the way, I'm in that I'm in that [06:46] thumbnail because I actually debated [06:48] Ally. Can I back up a little bit without [06:49] ruining it? Let me see here. Uh, [06:52] come on. There. I'm right here. I'm in [06:54] the pink. I debated Ally. Um, I I [06:58] covered it already. I I won't do it [07:00] here, but I did meet Ally in person. I [07:01] did talk to her. did debate her. Um, [07:04] yeah, [07:05] >> our debate on Jubilee, one conservative [07:07] Christian versus 20 supposedly liberal [07:10] Christians talking. [07:10] >> See how she keeps qualifying it? [07:12] Supposedly the self-identifying, she [07:14] doesn't really believe that I'm a [07:15] Christian. It doesn't matter that I will [07:17] confess pretty orthodox theological [07:19] claims around the virgin birth and the [07:21] trinity and the resurrection. But [07:23] because I am progressive politically, [07:25] I'm now outside of Alli's tribe and [07:28] therefore not a true Christian. Alli's [07:30] world operates around the notion that [07:32] her and her people are true authentic [07:34] believers and anyone else outside of her [07:37] political and theological worldview. [07:39] That basement of Christianity that I [07:41] often cite is not truly Christian. It is [07:45] arrogant. It is ignorant. And ultimately [07:48] it's it's prideful. It's prideful. It is [07:50] absolutely prideful. [07:52] >> Thanks. Um it's kind of what I do on a [07:53] daily basis. And I found when I was in [07:55] that setting that this is a lot like [07:56] doing my podcast. And you guys always [07:59] appreciate when I kind of give you the [08:01] tools to say when someone says this, [08:02] this is how you respond. So that's what [08:04] we are going to be doing today. Uh [08:05] progressives are really good at [08:06] emotionally evocative language. They are [08:08] really good at using scripture in such a [08:10] way that arrests your thinking and [08:11] emotionally manipulates you into [08:13] supporting their position. into [08:15] >> um you're gonna hear a lot of this and I [08:17] just want to keep in mind for all of you [08:19] that it wasn't overtly emotional [08:22] progressive Christians that stormed the [08:23] Capitol building based on a lie. It's [08:26] not uh President Joe Biden who was rage [08:29] tweeting from his phone about the [08:31] Democrats and how they should be hung [08:32] for treason for encouraging the military [08:35] not to follow lawful orders. This [08:37] dichotomy that she's setting up is a [08:38] false dichotomy. Emotions are not bad. [08:41] Everyone can be emotional. But she's [08:43] trying to build uh um tie this into her [08:46] brand that you know people like me are [08:48] just overtly emotional and therefore not [08:50] logical while she is relaxed and logical [08:54] and non-emotional. It is frankly a bunch [08:56] of BS. [08:56] >> Believing that being uh progressive [08:58] means being a good person means being [09:00] Christlike and being on the other side [09:01] of that is scary and wrong and bad. So I [09:03] want to give you the words to be able to [09:05] support why you believe what you believe [09:06] biblically and politically especially [09:08] when it comes to uh immigration. So, I [09:10] just want to go through some of the [09:11] claims starting with this first claim [09:13] that I've seen over and over again that [09:15] supporting ICE operations or any kind of [09:17] immigration enforcement is so-called [09:19] Christian nationalism. We've talked [09:21] about Christian nationalism a few times [09:22] over the years, but we just got to [09:24] hammer home what this actually means, [09:25] what our perspective on it should be. [09:27] >> By the way, I want to I'm going to be [09:29] very picky here because we have to. To [09:31] my knowledge, there are not many people [09:33] that do that that think that we should [09:35] not have border enforcement or that we [09:37] shouldn't have uh policies for how [09:39] people immigrate here. No one's talking [09:41] about that right now. What we're talking [09:42] about is masked federal agents who are [09:46] armed being sent to largely blue states [09:49] and cities to wreak havoc among the [09:51] population. I have friends in Minnesota. [09:54] I have friends in Minneapolis. They will [09:56] tell you it is hell on earth right now. [09:59] We've all seen the video of Renee Nicole [10:01] Good and Alex Prey when he was executed [10:03] by these ICE agents. Okay, so I want to [10:06] be very clear. All you have to do is [10:08] watch the videos to see what ICE is [10:10] doing. It doesn't take this is logical. [10:12] It doesn't take a rocket scientist to [10:13] see when an ICE agent says, "I'm [10:15] arresting you because of your accent." [10:17] That somehow that's a bad thing. [10:19] >> Benjamin Kramer, a lot of guy, a lot of [10:21] you guys have sent me his post on [10:23] Instagram. He's pastor at the Cathedral [10:24] of the Rockies. This is a United [10:26] Methodist Church congregation in Idaho. [10:29] The United Methodist Church split [10:30] several years ago over the LGBTQ issue, [10:32] whether we should honor so-called gay [10:34] marriage is something that is biblically [10:35] legitimate. He is a very progressive [10:38] guy. Um, he doesn't talk about in his [10:40] latest post that is very popular with [10:42] 143,000 [10:43] likes on Instagram, ICE specifically. [10:46] But judging by his other post and the [10:47] timing of this, this is clearly what he [10:49] is talking about. So, this is a post [10:51] against so-called Christian nationalism. [10:53] And I'm not going to go through all [10:54] maybe 20 slides that he put up, but I'll [10:56] just give you a taste of what he is [10:58] saying and then I'll respond to it. So [11:00] he says, "Christian nationalism looks [11:02] like seeing Jesus hanging on the cross [11:04] and saying he should have just obeyed [11:07] the law." Christian nationalism, Ben [11:09] Kramer says, looks like cheering on [11:10] Pharaoh while condemning Moses for being [11:12] too political. [11:12] >> Yeah. [11:13] >> Christian nationalism, he says, looks [11:14] like getting outraged at the prophet [11:16] Nathan for rebuking King David for his [11:17] horrid sins and telling him God can use [11:19] a filthy minded, wealthy man to [11:21] accomplish good things. And then the [11:23] last one that I'll read, although there [11:24] are quite a few more that you can read [11:25] on your own, Christian nationalism looks [11:26] like using the Bible to seek first the [11:28] power of the empire rather than the [11:30] self-sacrificial love of Jesus. [11:31] Christian nationalism looks like [11:32] worshiping power rather than loving God [11:34] and our neighbors. Christian nationalism [11:36] looks nothing like Jesus. So, [11:38] >> okay, before she gets into this, he's [11:40] right. He's right. These This is This is [11:43] why I love Ben. Ben is great with words. [11:45] He is absolutely correct. I cannot wait [11:47] to hear Alli's response to this and then [11:49] we'll respond ourselves. This is a [11:51] moniker that gets thrown my way a lot. [11:52] And if you are a conservative Christian, [11:54] you have probably been told this quite a [11:57] few times. At this point, like I [11:59] typically when someone messages me that, [12:00] I just respond with sarcasm. I think we [12:02] learned from Jesus that welltime sarcasm [12:04] actually makes a better point sometimes [12:06] than literalism. Someone called [12:07] >> Yeah, but who's who is who does Jesus [12:10] usually aim that at all? News flash, the [12:13] religious elite. The religious elite who [12:15] who throw unfair burdens on the rest of [12:18] the population. Yeah. Okay. [12:21] >> The other day just said, "I think you [12:22] mean you're a Christian nationalist." [12:23] And I said, "Oh my gosh, Stephanie, I've [12:25] changed my mind on everything. Thank you [12:26] so much. My eyes are open. Abortion is [12:28] great and men can become women." Um, it [12:30] just doesn't work. But I want you to [12:32] know why it doesn't work. I want [12:33] >> Notice the the the distraction. Uh, [12:36] she's talking about transgender people [12:37] and about abortion. We're not talking [12:38] about that right now. We're talking [12:39] about about immigration. You're going to [12:40] see this a lot. She's going to throw [12:42] things together all the time and put [12:43] them in a big pot and it takes time to [12:45] unpack them, but we have to [12:46] >> to know why this whole Christian [12:48] nationalist fear-mongering thing should [12:51] do absolutely nothing for you and you [12:53] really shouldn't be afraid of someone [12:55] calling you this. Okay, so number one, [12:57] what is Christian nationalism? We [12:58] learned from 2020 the importance of [13:00] defining our terms. So what is a [13:01] Christian? We could define it as those [13:03] who believe in the gospel of Jesus [13:05] Christ. This is followers of Jesus of [13:06] Nazareth. Who is God? Who is the only [13:08] way, the only truth, and the only life? [13:10] The only way to heaven. What is [13:12] nationalism? Putting the priorities of [13:14] your nation first. That's literally what [13:16] that means. What it is not, and this is [13:18] what progressives seem to think that it [13:20] is or how they describe it, it is not [13:22] believing that America is the chosen [13:23] nation or the new Israel, that all the [13:25] prophecies of the Old Testament are [13:27] fulfilled in America today. And if you [13:29] are someone who is on the right and you [13:30] do believe that, that's not biblical. [13:32] But most people who are called Christian [13:34] nationalists derisively, don't believe [13:37] those things. They are simply people who [13:39] are Christians. And so we have Christian [13:40] values that infiltrate every area of our [13:42] lives. And we are placed providentially [13:44] by God in America. So we seek the [13:46] interest of our country first as every [13:48] other country also has the right and [13:49] responsibility to do. [13:50] >> Okay, let we got to pause here. We got [13:52] to pause here. This is really important [13:54] stuff. Um first off, Alli's Alli's [13:58] comment about Christian nationalists [14:00] don't believe that there that America is [14:02] a chosen a chosen country to be used by [14:04] God or the new Israel is just flatout [14:05] false. It's just flat out false. It's [14:07] not true. Many Christian nationalists do [14:09] believe that uh that America is a unique [14:12] country that has uniquely been called by [14:15] God to definitely support Israel at a [14:18] minimum if not to become the new place [14:21] where God will reign or where where the [14:24] epicenter of that is. That's number one. [14:27] Um number two, I I gosh, it is there's [14:31] just so much here. I don't think she's [14:33] read any actual book on Christian [14:35] nationalism, friends. I don't think [14:36] she's read any of these, like literally [14:39] any of them. We're talking about [14:40] American Idolatry by Samuel by Andrew [14:43] Whitehead. We have uh Color of [14:44] Compromise by Jamar Tisby, Jesus and [14:47] John Wayne, by Kristen Dume, preparing [14:49] for war. I don't think she's read any of [14:51] these things because what she's doing is [14:52] she she's already redefining the terms. [14:54] She's not actually looking at the [14:55] scholarship of what we're talking about. [14:57] She is redefining the terms herself. And [15:00] that's important to pick up on here. I [15:02] do also want to replay briefly what she [15:04] said about nationalism. I I want to [15:05] respond to this. [15:07] >> Nationalism, putting the priorities of [15:09] your nation first. That's literally what [15:11] that means. [15:12] >> That's not biblical. Jesus sets no such [15:15] precedent for his followers to [15:16] prioritize Rome over other provinces. [15:20] First off, and also we we need to be [15:22] clear, the way that that nation states [15:25] are formed today is nothing like how how [15:28] nations are formed or how they operate [15:31] in the ancient world. But you will see [15:33] no such calling to protect your own over [15:36] the outsider because that that's what [15:38] she's doing here, right? Our nation is [15:40] our people, which by the way, you have [15:41] to qualify that because it's not it's [15:42] not the legal immigrants. It it's not [15:44] the immigrants who are here. It's not [15:46] the queer people who are here. It's not [15:47] the Democrats, right? It's a certain [15:49] type of people that she's talking about. [15:50] But that being said, she's talking about [15:53] tribalism. We have an obligation as [15:55] Christians to put America first over [15:57] everyone else. And then she she says in [16:00] a second and nations have their own [16:02] obligation to put their c nations first. [16:04] Well, that was only up until a point [16:06] because what happens when America [16:07] invades Venezuela and and blows past its [16:10] sovereign borders and invades the [16:13] country and kidnaps the president? Alli [16:14] will justify that as a good thing. So [16:16] ultimately what Alli really believes [16:18] that America needs to maintain its [16:21] superpower status. We should be able to [16:23] bully the world but the world cannot [16:26] bully us. [16:27] This is not a Christlike perspective. [16:31] The parables that Christ talks about, [16:33] especially stories like the Good [16:34] Samaritan, frankly, show or tell the [16:38] story that it's the people that we think [16:41] are on the outside, the enemy, the other [16:43] that actually are doing the will of the [16:45] father. Now, Ali could of course appeal [16:47] to the Hebrew Bible in in Israel, but [16:49] the nation of Israel in the anc in in [16:52] the Bible is not America. And if we're [16:55] going to take it in context, there is no [16:57] reason we should be thinking about how a [16:59] nation operates like how the nation of [17:01] Israel operates. That being said, you [17:04] will hear me throughout this video use [17:06] certain parts of the Bible to justify [17:07] the position I'm making simply to point [17:10] out that even by her own standards of [17:12] being biblical, it still falls apart. It [17:15] still falls apart. [17:17] >> But it is not, and this is what [17:18] progressives seem to think that it is or [17:20] how they describe it. is not believing [17:22] that America is the chosen nation or the [17:24] new Israel, that all the prophecies of [17:26] the Old Testament are fulfilled in [17:28] America today. And if you are someone [17:29] who is on the right and you do believe [17:30] that, that's not biblical. But most [17:32] people who are called Christian [17:34] nationalists derisively, don't believe [17:36] those things. They are simply people who [17:39] are Christians. And so we have Christian [17:40] values that infiltrate every area of our [17:42] lives. And we are placed providentially [17:44] by God in America. So we seek the [17:46] interests of our country first, as every [17:48] other country also has the right and [17:49] responsibility to do. you you will not [17:51] find any kind of direct command [17:53] especially to Christians to Christians [17:55] because remember we're not Jewish to [17:57] Christians to do that. You just won't [17:59] you're not going to find that. [18:01] >> So Christian nationalism for what it [18:02] really is and then Christian nationalism [18:04] for what the progressives say. And then [18:05] the next question of course [18:06] >> okay so she's not going to define it any [18:08] more than that which is honestly quite [18:09] pathetic because once again Ally does [18:11] not know what she's talking about which [18:12] is very classic Ally. I actually have [18:14] this survey pulled up here. So, PRRI is [18:17] one of the premier research firms that [18:19] tracks Christian nationalism. They do [18:21] surveys all the time. Here's how they [18:23] measure it. They, it says, quote here. [18:25] I'll zoom in a little bit so you can see [18:27] it better. It says, "Respondents in our [18:29] Americans value atlas were asked whether [18:31] they completely agree, mostly agree, [18:34] mostly disagree, or completely disagree [18:35] with each of the following statements. [18:37] Here's how they measured Christian [18:38] nationalism. One, the US government [18:41] should declare America a Christian [18:42] nation. Two, US laws should be based on [18:45] Christian values. Three, if the US moves [18:48] away from our Christian foundations, we [18:49] will not have a country anymore. Four, [18:52] being Christian is is an important part [18:54] of being truly American. Five, God has [18:57] called Christians to exercise dominion [18:59] over all areas of American society. And [19:01] then they rate based on those [19:03] respondents how the populace breaks [19:07] down. roughly [19:09] 30% of Americans either are sympathetic [19:11] to those five statements or they fully [19:13] adhere to them and the rest are either [19:15] skeptical or they reject it. That that's [19:17] a very boiled down response. So about [19:18] 30% of Americans hold these views. Now [19:20] the other thing you need to know is [19:21] again Alloy is never going to do this. [19:23] Alli's never going to actually read [19:24] books. She's never going to read the [19:26] books that actually talk about this. [19:27] She's never going to read the books that [19:29] actually describe this. Um Andrew [19:31] Whitehead is one of like the premier [19:32] scholars on this topic. He's a good [19:34] friend of the New Evangelicals. He's [19:36] been on the podcast before. In his book, [19:38] American Idolatry, here's what he says [19:40] and how he describes and defines [19:42] Christian nationalism. He says, quote, [19:44] this is page 15. We will begin the [19:46] journey defining Christian nationalism [19:48] and describing its depth and breadth [19:49] across American society. In short, white [19:52] Christian nationalism is a cultural [19:54] framework asserting that civic life in [19:56] the United States should be organized [19:58] according to a particular form of [19:59] conservative Christianity. Now, of [20:01] course, he unpacks all of that in the [20:03] book. I don't have time for it now, but [20:04] I want to be clear to to to all of you. [20:07] We are not just making up terms. We're [20:09] not redefining terms. There is a [20:11] framework for how we think about [20:13] Christian nationalism and why we use [20:15] that term and what it means. Ally is [20:18] either ignorant to that or she's lying [20:20] to her audience and positing herself as [20:22] the gatekeeper of something that she has [20:25] no real understanding of. Point blank [20:28] period. So already we're off on the [20:30] wrong foot and I'm excited to see where [20:32] we go from here. [20:33] >> Is Christian nationalism wrong? Well, a [20:37] Christian believes necessarily by nature [20:39] that God's ways are better. Why do we [20:42] believe this? Because of the most [20:43] controversial verse in the Bible, which [20:44] I think is Genesis 1:1. In the [20:46] beginning, God created the heavens and [20:47] the earth. Why is that the most [20:49] controversial? Because if God created [20:50] all of it, he's the authority over all [20:52] of it. [20:52] >> If that logic is true, let's let's let's [20:54] let's embel let's um what's the term I'm [20:57] looking for here? Let's play ball, [20:59] right? Let's give in. I'm going to watch [21:00] this back and go, Tim, you couldn't [21:02] think of the word. You're an idiot. But [21:04] let's, you know, um, let's say she's [21:06] right. All right, Ally. Who's God? [21:11] What laws based on what interpretation [21:14] of which holy book? So, you're already [21:16] starting very broad. Now, she quotes the [21:17] Bible. Again, whose interpretation of [21:20] the Bible? One of the biggest flaws in [21:22] fundamentalism once you get out of the [21:24] basement is you realize that they will [21:27] tell you they are just reading the Bible [21:29] or they're just quoting God's word. But [21:31] in reality, they're actually doing quite [21:32] a lot of interpretation, which is fair. [21:34] We all do that. But Ally doesn't have [21:36] the awareness that she's doing the same [21:39] thing. [21:40] Let's start with that. [21:42] >> If he is the authority over all of it, [21:43] then he gets to say what is and what [21:44] isn't, what's right and what's wrong, [21:45] what's good, what's bad, what's true, [21:46] what's false, what a woman is, what [21:47] she's not, what a marriage is, and when [21:48] life begins. Those are all interpretive [21:51] beliefs that Ally gets from the Bible. [21:54] By the way, the Bible never mentions [21:55] trans people and never talks about [21:57] abortion. I mean, there's a there's a [21:58] passage in Exodus that if anything shows [22:01] a more pro-choice position, but I'll [22:03] leave it there. Um, it doesn't talk [22:04] about gay marriage. [22:06] And by the way, just because we have to [22:09] say this, our country is run by the [22:12] Constitution. That does not mention God, [22:14] Jesus, or the Bible. It's not run by the [22:16] Bible. Hard stop. We have a constitution [22:18] that guarantees the freedom of religion [22:20] and the freedom of expression of [22:21] religion for everyone in America. So [22:24] Ally is already superseding the [22:26] Constitution because her interpretation [22:28] of the Bible, which is therefore God's [22:29] law, should now be ruling over everyone [22:31] else. That's the slight of hand she's [22:33] doing already. And we're a few minutes [22:35] in. [22:35] >> And we really see the answers to all of [22:37] those things in the very first chapter [22:38] of the first book of the Bible in [22:39] Genesis 1:27. And so if you're a [22:42] Christian and you believe that God's [22:43] ways are better and you believe that he [22:44] has the authority over all of it, that [22:46] is necessarily going to influence your [22:48] politics. [22:49] >> By the way, Genesis 127, if it's the [22:51] passions I'm thinking about, there's no [22:53] wedding ceremony. If the command, if [22:55] she's talking about the command to be [22:56] fruitful and multiply, it's a very [22:58] nondescript phrase. There's nothing [22:59] about get married first. It just says [23:01] have sex and have a lot of babies. [23:03] >> What is a nationalist? A nationalist [23:05] means that you care about your country [23:06] the most. that you want to put your [23:08] interests and your fellow citizens [23:10] interests in security number one before [23:12] the interest in the security of other [23:14] countries. We read something like this [23:16] in Jeremiah 27. The Israelites are in [23:19] exile in Babylon and God tells them, [23:21] "But seek the welfare of the city where [23:22] I have sent you into exile and pray to [23:24] the Lord on its behalf. For in its [23:26] welfare you will find your welfare." [23:29] >> This is a very classic approach to the [23:30] scriptures by fundamentalists. They will [23:32] cherrypick verses that have nothing to [23:34] do with them or America and they will [23:36] make it theirs. Which is this is very [23:37] much a colonizing attitude, right? This [23:39] is what colonization is. You you invade [23:41] someone else's country. You invade [23:42] someone else's culture and you pillage [23:44] it for your own personal gain. Again, [23:47] let's humor. That's the word. Let's [23:49] humor. Ally, let's say this is true. is [23:52] sending mass federal agents into cities [23:55] where they're killing innocent people, [23:57] where they're arresting people who have [23:58] no criminal history. Is that seeking the [24:00] welfare of the city? How about passing [24:03] laws that actually let affordable [24:05] healthc care subsidies expire? Kicking [24:08] millions of people off of their health [24:09] insurance. How about a forprofit prison [24:11] industry that targets black people [24:13] disproportionately and makes billions [24:15] doing it? Again, even by Alli's own [24:18] logic, I can point to How about the [24:20] Epstein files, Ally? How about the fact [24:22] that your dude is all over him? So, it's [24:26] just so selective how all the [24:28] presuppositions underneath of this are [24:30] so important to understand because she [24:31] does not mean even with this verse on [24:33] its face would insinuate. She means [24:35] something completely different. [24:37] >> And if that was true of exiles then that [24:39] they should seek the welfare of the city [24:40] that they're placed in. Surely it is [24:41] true for Christian exiles here today to [24:43] seek the welfare of the country of the [24:45] city of the community in which we have [24:46] been placed. [24:47] >> Now, another thought, look at Gaza. [24:49] There are Christians in Gaza who are [24:51] trying to seek the welfare of their [24:52] city. Alli doesn't care. Alli has no [24:55] problem supporting the Trump [24:56] administration in military-industrial [24:58] complex that is raining bombs on [25:00] children's head. See, this is the thing, [25:02] guys. You have to you have to interpret [25:04] everything she says through this lens of [25:06] who does it benefit? All these [25:08] statements that she says do does not [25:10] benefit other Christians who are either [25:12] in this country who don't look act or [25:14] think like alli and they don't benefit [25:16] other Christians globally that are are [25:18] supposed to do the same thing seek the [25:20] welfare of their city [25:22] is Christian nationalism wrong. Another [25:24] part of this is that every single person [25:26] believes their worldview should inform [25:28] the policies of our country. This is [25:30] natural. This is inevitable for the [25:32] atheist, for the agnostic, for the [25:33] progressive, for the Christian, for the [25:35] conservative. Every single person allows [25:37] our worldview, the fullness of our [25:39] belief system to follow us into the [25:41] voting booth. [25:42] >> Yeah. And and to be clear, not all [25:43] worldviews are created equal. Right, [25:45] Ally? The KKK had a worldview that [25:47] America was a white nation for white [25:48] people. We rejected that. The early [25:51] slaveold or not early, the slaveholders [25:53] said that it was their god-given right [25:54] to own other people. America finally [25:56] rejected that form of racism. So, sure. [26:00] And I'm telling you, Ally, that your [26:01] worldview sucks for most Americans. Your [26:03] worldview is poison for our queer [26:05] neighbor. It's poison for the woman who [26:07] needs an abortion because the pregnancy [26:09] is ectopic or it's it's it's going to [26:11] damage her. It's poison for our [26:13] immigrant neighbors, including the legal [26:14] ones. It's poison. It's absolute poison. [26:17] >> Fooled into believing that you as a [26:18] conservative Christian are the only [26:21] person who is not allowed to let your [26:24] belief system inform your vote. Every [26:26] other group does this. You have the [26:27] right and responsibility to do the same. [26:30] And by the way, Ben Kramer does the same [26:32] thing. He believes that his worldview as [26:34] a so-called progressive Christian should [26:35] inform policies, should inform the law, [26:37] and should be enforced on everyone else. [26:39] I'll get into that in just a second. Let [26:40] me pause, tell you about our first [26:41] sponsor for the day, and that is [26:43] >> I'm not going to listen to the first [26:44] sponsor. We're not giving them any more [26:47] any more air time. How long is this ad [26:49] here? Oh, it's a long one. She's really [26:51] reading. [26:55] >> He says, "The Bible never defines a [26:56] person's worth by their economic output. [26:58] In fact, it warns us not to favor the [26:59] rich over the poor. God's kingdom is [27:01] built not on costbenefit analysis, but [27:03] on belovedness. The call to welcome the [27:05] stranger is rooted in who God is, not in [27:07] what the stranger can offer us. So, what [27:09] I want to point out here is that he is [27:11] conflating the kingdom of God with [27:13] America. So, he is refuting this [27:14] political statement. People usually [27:16] don't say it like this that immigrants [27:18] are a drain on our economy, but they [27:19] might say illegal immigration is really [27:21] difficult economically. Like, it affects [27:23] the labor force. It affects the demand [27:25] and therefore the price for houses. No, [27:27] this is all false. There have been [27:28] studies done on this. Illegal [27:29] undocumented immigrants actually pay [27:31] more in taxes than they get out of the [27:32] system. And if you need proof of that, [27:34] don't forget our government use their [27:36] tax records to hunt them down. Number [27:38] two, I see what Alli is doing here. It's [27:39] slick, but it's actually complete [27:41] hogwash because Ally is the one who [27:45] preaches this idea, like she said [27:46] earlier, of how the Bible has to inform, [27:49] right? God's laws are what a nation's [27:51] laws should reflect. Ben is pointing out [27:54] that if we're going to use that logic, [27:57] right, the teachings of Jesus actually [27:59] teach us the opposite. And by the way, [28:01] by the way, unlike Ally, me and Ben and [28:04] many others can agree with other people [28:06] of different faiths and belief systems [28:08] based on the values that all people are [28:11] inherently worthy of dignity and [28:13] respect. But Ally can't do that. She [28:15] holds exclusive fundamentalistsonly [28:18] beliefs that she believes must be [28:20] superimposed over everyone else. And the [28:23] output of that is a restrictive right [28:26] you cannot do this because I said so [28:28] attitude while Ben's theology is saying [28:31] hey because I'm a Christian I believe we [28:34] should welcome the stranger. Ben does [28:35] not believe that America is the kingdom [28:37] of God. In fact I know I I don't speak [28:40] half of Ben. I'll just say for me, I [28:41] critique America all the time as empire, [28:44] as empire. I don't want America to be a [28:46] Christian nation. I want Christians to [28:48] subvert empire and to push for a more [28:50] fair and just society. [28:52] Period. And that can happen with the [28:56] allegiance or the or or the, you know, [28:58] the the networking with my atheist [29:00] neighbor, with my Muslim neighbor, with [29:02] my gay neighbor, right? With my trans [29:04] neighbor, with my immigrant neighbor. [29:05] But Alli's worldview doesn't allow for [29:06] any of that. It's her way or the [29:08] highway. It's how she interprets the [29:10] Bible or that's it. You're just a [29:12] repbate who must be punished. [29:15] It's wild. [29:16] >> That's really difficult for the poor and [29:17] hardworking people who are citizens of [29:19] this country. And he responds by saying [29:21] God's kingdom is built not on [29:22] costbenefit analysis. We're not talking [29:24] about God's kingdom. [29:25] >> But Ally has done this in the past. She [29:27] actually has cited many verses that that [29:29] that the reason why social justice isn't [29:31] biblical justice is because we shouldn't [29:33] give favor to the poor. And she quotes [29:34] scripture. So she's doing the same [29:36] thing. And Ben is responding on her [29:39] terms. If we are Christians, if we want [29:42] to seek the kingdom of God first, and if [29:44] we believe that as Christians, we have [29:45] an obligation to show the world what [29:47] God's kingdom looks like, right? This is [29:50] what it looks like, Ally. It looks like [29:52] a place where the poor are taken care [29:54] of. It looks like a place where the sick [29:56] are healed. It looks like a place where [29:58] immigrant neighbor is welcomed. [30:00] That's what it looks like. And again, [30:02] those beliefs can be agreed upon with [30:04] other people of other faiths without us [30:07] saying we're a Christian nation. The Ten [30:08] Commandments are in our public schools. [30:11] >> We're talking about the United States. [30:13] So actually, in him saying that [30:14] Christian nationalists are trying to [30:16] enforce some theocracy by allowing the [30:19] law to be informed by what we believe, [30:21] he is actually the one that is [30:22] conflating our spiritual obligation to [30:24] the poor and the spiritual kingdom of [30:26] heaven with America here today. [30:28] >> This shows how bad Alli's theology is. [30:30] And this is why and I I'm careful when I [30:32] say this because I'm I have no degree in [30:34] the Bible or in scripture, but I have [30:36] had the privilege of interviewing major [30:37] biblical scholars and becoming quite [30:39] friendly with them. But there there's no [30:41] dichotomy between the spiritual and the [30:43] physical. This idea that it's a [30:44] spiritual poor, it's a spiritual kingdom [30:46] is made up nonsense. They absolutely [30:49] believed in reality in in an embodied [30:52] way of living. Jesus quoted from the [30:53] scroll of Isaiah, he's come to set the [30:55] captive free. He wasn't talking about a [30:57] spiritual captivity. That is Ally in [30:59] that reformed world using that term in a [31:03] way to keep things as the status quo, [31:05] right? Hey, we can't help the poor as [31:07] Christians, but we sure as heck can make [31:09] sure that gay people can't get married [31:10] as Christians because we have an [31:12] obligation to seek the good of the city. [31:14] So, she's she's actually projecting what [31:17] she is actually doing. [31:19] >> See that over and over again, and we'll [31:20] have more on that point in just a [31:22] second. Please do. Here's another [31:23] question that we have to explore when [31:24] we're seeing this Christian nationalist [31:26] accusation. Is so-called Christian [31:28] nationalism violating the separation of [31:30] church and state? This is something that [31:31] I see a lot that you Christian can't [31:33] vote against abortion because that is [31:34] not separating church and state. [31:36] >> That is not that is such a [31:37] mischaracterization. What we're talking [31:39] about is when the government privileges [31:41] Christianity like alleys as opposed to [31:44] someone else's. For example, [31:46] for example, remember when the city's [31:48] church protest happened a few weeks ago [31:50] and Don Lemon was there? Do you know [31:52] that that Republicans have actually done [31:54] that to queer affirming churches? [31:56] There's a video of Valentina Gomez, [31:58] who's out of her mind, going to a queer [32:00] church, disrupting the service in [32:02] protest. But Ally hasn't talked about [32:04] that. The DOJ under Trump isn't going to [32:07] prosecute Valentina for disrupting the [32:09] service, but they are going to prosecute [32:11] the people who protested city's church [32:13] and the journalists who covered it. [32:15] That's what we're talking about, Al. [32:17] We're not talking about you voting for a [32:18] pro-life position is inherently a [32:21] violation of separation of church and [32:22] state. We're talking about when the [32:24] government is weaponized to privilege a [32:27] certain religious group over other [32:29] people. You can read Andrew Sidel's [32:31] book, American Crusade, to dive into the [32:33] legal framework that has built this way [32:36] of thinking. Right now, Paul the White, [32:38] who's a Christian, a white conservative, [32:41] charismatic Christian, has her own [32:43] office in the White House. The it's the [32:46] faith council office. and she privileges [32:49] her type of Christians to get access to [32:52] the government in the White House. That [32:54] is violating the separation of church [32:56] and state. That's what we're talking [32:58] about. [32:59] >> Separation of church and state, not in [33:01] the constitution. It was in a letter to [33:02] the Danbury Baptist. It is a principle [33:04] that we see, yes, in the first [33:06] amendment, but you will not see those [33:08] words there. [33:08] >> Okay. But the principle is still there, [33:10] Ally. Jeez. [33:12] >> Is a separation of the authority of the [33:13] church from the authority of the state. [33:15] primarily to protect the church, not [33:16] primarily to protect the state. [33:18] >> That's that's made up and it goes both [33:19] ways. And as we see over and over, [33:21] friends, I cover it on this channel all [33:23] the time. Christian nationalists believe [33:25] believe it believe it that that they [33:26] have a God-given mandate to take over [33:29] the country to rule from the top down. [33:31] Look up the seven mountain mandate. [33:32] Politics is one of them. Look up my work [33:35] with uh April a Joy on the Tim and April [33:37] show about the N apostolic reformation. [33:40] This is very real stuff. It's [33:42] documented. There is no pro progressive [33:44] Christian movement like what's happening [33:46] right now in our government. And if [33:48] there was if there was a progressive [33:50] Christian takeover, you know what would [33:52] happen, Ally? [33:55] More people would be welcomed into [33:57] America. More healthc care would be [33:59] expanded. More people of different [34:00] faiths and religious religions would be [34:02] invited to help co-lead the government. [34:05] It's a totally different framework. [34:06] That's why we define Christian [34:08] nationalism the way we do. It's it's [34:09] it's a certain way of thinking that [34:12] leads to a particular brand of [34:14] conservative Christianity that believes [34:15] in taking over and excluding the [34:17] outsider. That's how this functions. [34:19] She's so out of her depth here. Like [34:20] it's I'm honestly embarrassed. Like just [34:22] just read one of these books. Just read [34:24] one. At least say you read one book and [34:26] critique it on its own terms. [34:28] >> But this is not the separation of God [34:30] and law. The founders knew that that was [34:32] impossible. And that is why for example [34:34] in the Declaration of Independence we [34:35] read that we were created by a God who [34:38] has given us inalienable rights among [34:39] them being life, liberty, and the [34:40] pursuit of happiness. [34:41] >> Okay. For who? Does our queer neighbor [34:44] have the right to the pursuit of [34:46] happiness? Do they have a right to marry [34:48] who they want to marry? Do the poor who [34:50] are financially enslaved to a debt [34:53] system have the right to happiness and [34:56] liberty? And by the way, the declaration [34:58] doesn't govern our country. The [35:00] constitution does. And God is nowhere in [35:03] there. And that's by design. That's by [35:05] design. Cuz think about what they were [35:06] fleeing. They they were they were [35:08] fleeing a country where the church was [35:11] in bed with the government and and in [35:13] and a complete mess. [35:16] >> The founders knew that our rights come [35:17] from God. And that is the basis for the [35:19] lawgiving in the United States. That is [35:21] not a theocracy. That is stating the [35:23] belief that a creator whose power [35:26] transcends the government and who is the [35:27] arbiter of morality must be the basis of [35:30] our general lawgiving because morality [35:32] always informs the law. [35:33] >> That that just so you know that's not [35:35] true. Most of our current constitutional [35:36] law comes from English common law. It [35:38] does not come from this idea of the [35:40] English Protestant Bible. These are [35:42] developed ideas that happened way after [35:44] the constitution and the founding of [35:46] America. Even the idea of in God we [35:48] trust. You know that that that was [35:49] formed in the 1950s. In God we trust was [35:52] added to our currency in the 1950s [35:54] saying that we're one nation under God [35:56] in the pledge of allegiance added to the [35:58] pledge in the 1950s. The term [36:00] Judeo-Christian values nowhere in [36:03] existence until the 20th century. These [36:05] are new ideas that alli is trying to [36:07] feed back into history that are just not [36:10] true. [36:10] >> People say, "Oh, you can't legislate [36:11] morality." No, you have to legislate [36:13] morality. But morality is legislation. [36:15] Every single law is making a moral [36:17] statement. Okay. So is Christian [36:19] nationalism so-called violating [36:21] separation of church and state? Our [36:22] worldview and policy was never meant to [36:24] be separate and it's actually impossible [36:26] to do that. I do not think that [36:27] Christians are called to enact a [36:29] theocracy here in the United States. We [36:30] don't see precedent for that in [36:32] scripture. And I don't believe that we [36:33] should be forcing people to go to church [36:35] or to believe a certain way. But which [36:37] world view should inform policy? Of [36:39] course, I think it's the Christian [36:40] worldview. [36:40] >> A theocracy does not mean that you force [36:42] people to go to church. It means that [36:44] people like Ally are ruling and get to [36:46] make all the rules and make all the [36:48] laws. It means that your gay neighbor [36:49] can't get married. That's part of a [36:50] theocracy. It means the ten commandments [36:52] must be published in in in public school [36:54] classrooms despite it being a government [36:57] entity which has a establishment clause [37:00] to not privilege one religion over [37:02] another. And by the way, she uses the [37:04] word Christian worldview because she [37:06] believes like I said that she's the only [37:08] true Christian or her her tribe is the [37:11] only true Christian way of thinking. [37:12] Period. Let's keep going. [37:15] And then last in all of this, is [37:17] immigration enforcement bad? So, if we [37:19] are to put aside the Christian [37:21] nationalist thing for a second, which [37:22] we've already addressed, is immigration [37:24] enforcement unbiblical or wrong or evil? [37:27] You've heard me say this a lot, and I [37:28] just want to reiterate it because [37:29] there's a lot of new people here. It [37:30] seems every country has the right and [37:32] responsibility to regulate immigration [37:34] and control its borders. Zimbabwe has [37:36] that right, China has that right, South [37:38] Korea has that right, and America has [37:39] that right. Because sovereignty equals [37:41] legitimacy and legitimacy equals the [37:43] ability to make and enforce laws which [37:46] protect you. [37:47] >> Remember remember though two things we [37:48] got to point out. Venezuela doesn't have [37:50] a right to its own sovereign uh uh [37:52] borders because the US invaded that [37:54] country no problem. Right? Greenland [37:56] doesn't have a right to those things. [37:57] Iran doesn't have a right to those [37:58] things. So this is rules for thee, not [38:01] for me. That being said, no one that I'm [38:04] aware of, and maybe you guys can point [38:05] to some kind of politician or some [38:07] influential person, not just some random [38:08] Tik Tok person, no one that I'm I'm [38:11] aware of is advocating for not having [38:13] borders. This is the conflation that's [38:14] intentional because she wants you to [38:16] think that I want open borders, meaning [38:19] I don't want any kind of process to vet [38:21] who comes into our country or not. No [38:23] one is saying that. In fact, it was [38:25] Donald Trump who tanked Joe Biden's [38:29] overhaul of the immigration system. [38:32] Yeah, he called his people in in [38:34] Congress and said, "Tank that bill. It [38:36] will look better for my re-election [38:38] campaign." So, I don't think Ally really [38:40] cares that much if it doesn't benefit [38:41] her. Keep that in mind here. But to be [38:43] clear, no one is talking about open [38:45] borders. That is a madeup term by Alli [38:48] Saki. If you can show me any major [38:50] politician or lawmaker or any major [38:52] influence uh influential person who's [38:54] more progressive who's saying we want [38:56] open borders, abolish all borders, let [38:59] me know. from people like Ben Kramer [39:01] that it's us. We're seeking empire. [39:02] We're seeking more power and that's why [39:04] we're enforcing immigration and [39:06] protecting our borders. I just want to [39:08] note something that progressives and the [39:10] Democrats actually seek to make the [39:12] government bigger. They want more power [39:14] to the government, less power to [39:15] parents, less power to churches, less [39:17] power to individuals. They want the [39:19] government making more decisions, taking [39:20] more in taxes, gaining more authority to [39:23] do everything except what the Bible [39:24] actually tasks the government to do. And [39:26] this is I I'm blown away that Alli can [39:28] say this with a straight face. It's [39:30] Trump who who who ballooned our national [39:32] debt. It's Trump who signed the most [39:34] executive orders in modern history. [39:36] Maybe ever. [39:40] In fact, I want to fact check that real [39:41] quick while I'm here. I'm pretty sure [39:43] that Donald Trump used the power of [39:46] executive orders. In fact, I know for [39:48] Okay, I know that he definitely tried to [39:50] overwrite birthright citizenship. I know [39:52] that pure research looking at the last [39:55] let's let's look from like I don't know [39:57] let's look from Reagan they always they [39:58] always like like the count from Reagan [40:01] Reagan had 213 in his first term 168 in [40:04] the second Bush had a bunch Clinton had [40:06] a bunch Trump in a year and a half has [40:09] had 221 executive orders that far [40:12] outpaces Joe Biden's entire presidency [40:16] and outpaces Trump's first presidency [40:17] and it by far outpaces Obama's uh uhh [40:21] first and second term. Okay, so again, [40:24] Ally is just not really a truth teller. [40:26] She doesn't mind if the government [40:27] expands when when she's in control of [40:30] it, when her people are in control. ICE [40:32] was expanded. The FBI was expanded. The [40:35] federal government expanded under Trump [40:37] and is being sent to states [40:40] without the government or the governors [40:42] of these states or mayors asking for [40:44] help and wreaking terror. The National [40:48] Guard's been sent. So all of a sudden we [40:51] go from states rights to a huge federal [40:53] government and Ally wants you to think [40:54] that somehow she's on the side of small [40:56] government. It's ridiculous. It's [40:58] ridiculous. I promise I'm trying to let [41:00] her go, but there's just so much to [41:02] respond to because she's just uttering [41:04] so much garbage out of her mouth. [41:07] >> In the immigration conversation or any [41:09] conversation about politics and law, [41:10] Romans 13:2 through4, for rulers are not [41:12] a terror to good conduct, but Tibet. [41:14] That's how it's supposed to be. Would [41:15] you have no fear of the one who is in [41:17] authority? Then do what is good and you [41:18] will receive his approval. For he is [41:19] God's servant for your good. But if you [41:21] do wrong, be afraid for he does not bear [41:23] the sword in vain. For he is the servant [41:25] of God and avenger who carries out God's [41:27] wrath on the wrong doer. All right. [41:30] >> Even by that verse, 5-year-old Liam did [41:34] nothing wrong. [41:36] Alex Prey did nothing wrong. He was well [41:38] within his constitutional right to film [41:40] the police. They escalated. [41:44] There are so many examples that we've [41:45] covered from my past episodes of people [41:48] who are legal citizens who have green [41:50] cards who are here legally being [41:53] detained and kidnapped. There are [41:55] children in detention centers right now [41:56] begging to get screaming to be let out. [41:59] So again, Ally, like the government that [42:02] you support is not doing what you think [42:04] Romans 13 is even talking about. And [42:06] again, it's time to talk about that and [42:08] go through Ally during the Biden [42:10] administration. See how often she cited [42:12] that verse? I bet very very little. [42:15] Right? This is someone who wants to [42:17] overturn all kinds of rights that are [42:18] currently enshrined. [42:21] But Romans 13 suddenly suddenly doesn't [42:23] apply. [42:25] >> Was instituted by God. It was his idea. [42:27] Law and law enforcement were God's idea. [42:29] Now this right here is why it is it is [42:31] so important to elect politicians that [42:32] divi uh define good and evil how God [42:35] defines them. [42:36] >> That's code for how we define it. That's [42:38] code for how we define it. This [42:40] oversimplistic idea of how she has the [42:42] gateway to God. Her and her tribe have [42:44] the objective truth of what God wants is [42:47] ridiculous. Can we just examine that for [42:49] one second? I know it's a lot, but it's [42:50] really key. [42:52] the God of the universe. If God exists, [42:55] Alli is saying that out of all the [42:56] people in history, out of all the people [42:59] who currently currently live right now, [43:00] her and her tribe based on how they [43:03] interpret an ancient collection of books [43:05] that we have none of the original [43:06] manuscripts of that has been translated [43:08] over and over again and edited. [43:11] How she interprets the English [43:12] Protestant Bible is a direct reflection [43:15] of how the God of the universe that [43:16] created all things demands that America [43:20] should be governed. So that's what she's [43:22] saying. And again, if God's laws are [43:25] what we find in the Bible, there are [43:26] over a hundred references to welcome the [43:29] immigrant. Is that not God's law, Ally? [43:32] There are are thousands of verses about [43:35] the oppressed. James 5 condemns the rich [43:38] and powerful that exploit the worker for [43:41] unfair wages. Is that God's law? She [43:44] God's law is doing so much heavy lifting [43:46] here. Her audience is filling in what [43:49] they're taught in evangelical churches. [43:50] God's law means no abortion, no gay [43:52] people, and you know, I guess DEI is [43:54] evil. That is not even a biblical [43:58] concept. Even if he even if we were to [44:01] use the Bible as God's standard, there [44:03] are so many verses that defy what Alli [44:05] is saying. You have an administration [44:07] like the last administration especially [44:09] who calls evil good and good evil. Who [44:11] thinks that it's good to force a company [44:13] to force its employees to take an [44:16] experimental COVID shot or thinks it's [44:17] good for boys to identify as girls and [44:19] go into the girls' bathroom or who [44:21] thinks it's good to abort as many babies [44:23] as possible. That is [44:26] >> going to have a hard time bearing the [44:27] brunt of Romans 13. [44:28] >> See there that's that's a justification. [44:30] By the way, abortion rates actually rose [44:33] under Trump the first time. So, oh god, [44:37] >> if you have an administration that [44:38] defines good and evil the way that God [44:39] defines it, this is why it matters so [44:41] much who we vote for, then this is [44:43] actually a blessing to a country. [44:45] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, the guy who [44:46] is an adjudicated, you know, abuser, the [44:49] guy who's all over those files that we [44:51] talk about, that guy, the guy who [44:53] bragging a hot mic about assaulting [44:54] women, that's the guy that is is [44:56] instituting God's biblical law here. [44:58] Give me a break. the guy that that let [45:00] Elon Musk wreak havoc in our government [45:03] going after USAD, which cut so much [45:06] money and cut so many meals that we can [45:08] actually track the deficit caused. [45:10] That's that's what Alli has to show for [45:12] it. Our economy is not good. Our job [45:15] market isn't growing. Every day is a new [45:18] level of of chaos, not order. [45:22] Judges are are giving scathing rebukes [45:24] to how this administration flaunts the [45:25] law. And Ally has the caucassacity to [45:28] tell her audience that somehow Trump is [45:30] the is working on behalf of God, the God [45:32] of order. Give me a break. It wasn't [45:36] progressives or Democrats that stormed [45:38] the Capitol building that that that put [45:40] a that blew a chauffear through the [45:42] broken glass that brought a noose to [45:44] hang the vice president with Ally. [45:46] >> All right. Another statement. So that [45:48] was all under Christian nationalism. [45:49] Another statement that we hear over and [45:51] over again is that we shouldn't put [45:53] America first because the kingdom of God [45:55] is multicultural. [45:57] Okay, so Ben Kramer says, "Christian [45:59] nationalism looks like hearing God say, [46:00] "I will pour out my spirit on all people [46:02] in Acts two where all nations, [46:03] languages, tribes were present, then [46:05] protesting by saying America first." [46:07] Okay, so now we're going to get into [46:08] this point. This is my favorite point [46:10] about Christian nationalism and all of [46:12] this stuff. And I just really want you [46:13] to understand this. There's an irony in [46:15] this accusation. Progressives, as I [46:17] noted earlier, consistently conflate [46:19] America and the church, which is the [46:20] very thing they accuse Christian [46:21] nationalists of doing. America should [46:23] have looser immigration laws, they say, [46:25] because the Bible says to love the [46:26] foreigner. America shouldn't put our [46:27] nation first, they say, because the [46:29] kingdom of God is multicultural. America [46:30] should implement socialist economic [46:32] policies, they say, because the early [46:33] church gave everything they had to each [46:34] other. Number one, these verses are [46:36] taken out of context. This is called is [46:38] Jesus, when you read a message or read a [46:40] meaning into the text rather than [46:42] reading the text and pulling the real [46:43] meaning out of the text by [46:46] pot, meat, kettle. Ally has no [46:49] education. She has no training in the [46:52] Bible. She rips verses out of context. [46:54] Jeremiah is not talking about America, [46:56] Ally. But hey, we're going to use it [46:57] anyway. Romans 13 isn't even talking [46:59] about America, but we're going to use it [47:00] anyway. Now, she's going to accuse [47:01] people like Ben for taking the Bible out [47:03] of context. This is classic. Again, [47:06] every accusation is a confession. It [47:09] absolutely is. You are not going to see [47:11] any progressive pastor or church say in [47:13] their in their in their church [47:14] buildings, America is a Christian nation [47:16] and we have to bring the nation the [47:18] kingdom of God right here into America [47:20] and take and do it by taking over the [47:22] government and making all the laws. It's [47:24] a completely different framework for how [47:26] we understand solid Christian [47:28] engagement. Martin Luther King was not a [47:31] Christian nationalist, but his faith [47:32] animated him to push for the civil [47:35] rights movement, right? Because he saw [47:36] the injustice. It's a complete [47:38] mischaracterization [47:40] >> studying its original original language [47:41] and its context. Um, yes, we are [47:44] supposed to love the sojourer. That is [47:46] true. Exodus 22:1. But no, this does not [47:49] justify illegal immigration. We read in [47:51] Exodus 12:49, "There shall be one law [47:53] for the native and for the stranger who [47:55] sojourns among you." [47:56] >> Speaking of taking the Bible out of [47:58] context, [47:59] >> one law. That means that there was not a [48:02] condoning of lawlessness or illegal [48:04] immigration. The sojourners that came [48:07] into the land of Israel, yes, they were [48:09] cared for and yes, they were not [48:11] oppressed, but they also had to get [48:12] circumcised. Like, they also had to [48:14] follow laws when it came to [48:15] homosexuality and marriage, every [48:17] cleansing law, every civic law that was [48:19] on the books. [48:20] >> I'm not aware of of foreigners being [48:22] forced to be circumcised. But even Ally [48:25] says that they were not oppressed. And [48:27] yet, we can look at this government [48:28] oppressing foreigners. So either way, [48:30] Alli already is just showing her full, [48:33] you know what, she's she's disregarding [48:35] the blatant hatred and dehumanization of [48:38] of in particular brownskinned bodies. [48:41] This administration is targeting a [48:43] certain type of people group while [48:45] welcoming white Africaners from Africa [48:48] because they're facing persecution when [48:49] in reality they're not. It's just so [48:51] obvious. [48:52] >> They weren't just given a pass for [48:54] lawlessness just because they were [48:56] sojenters. This is what we consistently [48:59] see from God. That he is a God of mercy [49:00] and also a God of order for our good. Um [49:04] yes, the kingdom of God is [49:05] multicultural. Every knee will bow and [49:07] every tongue will confess that Jesus [49:08] Christ is Lord. We read that in Romans [49:10] 14:11. But no, this does not mean that [49:12] every nation has to represent every [49:14] culture. The truth is hot take. We do [49:17] not see the importance of ethnic [49:18] diversity within nations or local [49:20] churches anywhere in scripture. [49:23] You know, again, if we're going by [49:25] Alli's logic about the Bible and God's [49:26] law and what heaven will be like, every [49:28] nation, tribe, and tongue will be there [49:30] together in unison. Diversity is a [49:32] beautiful kingdom ethic. And by the way, [49:34] America is a nation of immigrants. [49:37] Ally, America is a nation of immigrants. [49:41] Hispanic immigrants, Italian immigrants, [49:44] Catholic, Irish, black immigrants, most [49:47] of which got here against their own [49:48] will, Asian immigrants. That's what [49:50] America is. That's what it is. America [49:53] is inherently diverse. America is [49:55] inherently a multicultural society. [49:59] Period. And her saying there's no uh [50:02] there's no mandate. Have she has you [50:04] read has you read has she read the book [50:05] of Romans? Paul, the Apostle Paul is [50:07] trying to work with Jews and Gentiles to [50:10] mix together to make room for each [50:12] other. That's the whole point. That's [50:14] the whole point of so many letters from [50:16] the Apostle Paul to the early church. [50:18] Hey, I know Jews have these um beliefs [50:21] and these rituals and Gentiles don't. [50:22] Here's how you work together. She's just [50:25] like she again, I'm going by her own [50:27] logic. She doesn't know the Bible at [50:29] all. It's kind of embarrassing. [50:30] >> Nowhere. Does China or Yemen need more [50:32] diversity? For some reason, like we [50:33] don't see people saying, "Gosh, China [50:35] really needs more black people. Like, [50:37] they need more Latinx communities in [50:38] Yemen." No one ever says that. It's only [50:40] America and the UK, Northern Europe, [50:43] Canada. We need more ethnic diversity. [50:46] But these homogeneous countries don't. [50:48] Why? Because it's [50:49] >> Ally is showing actually what she [50:51] believes about America, white people, [50:52] right? America is a country for white [50:54] people. Because if she's if she if she [50:56] believes this, what other people, Ally, [50:59] besides white folks should be here? [51:04] >> Assumption that progressives sometimes [51:05] don't even know that they're asserting [51:06] that less whiteness is better or holier. [51:08] No one's going up to the Hispanic church [51:09] or the Korean church on the, you know, [51:11] street corner in Plano saying like, "Why [51:13] don't you have more people of Norwegian [51:15] descent inside your doors?" But if [51:17] there's a predominantly white church in [51:18] a predominantly white area, you get [51:20] people walking in and saying, you know, [51:21] "Why don't you have more black people [51:23] here?" And so, [51:26] >> just briefly, because we have so much [51:27] more to get through, Hispanic, Latino, [51:30] Korean folks, black folks are [51:32] marginalized communities in America. [51:33] They are not the majority and they're [51:35] often not treated the same as white [51:37] people. That's why they build [51:39] communities to survive the empire that [51:41] Alli simps for. [51:43] >> Call for diversity is not even sincere. [51:45] Um and that's not something we [51:47] necessarily have to represent as a [51:49] signal of holiness in the local church. [51:50] Yes, it is. Bible. [51:51] >> Yes, it is true that the early church [51:53] gave everything they had. We read that [51:54] in Acts 2:45. But this followed belief, [51:58] baptism, and an outpouring of the Holy [51:59] Spirit. And it was not compelled by the [52:01] government. You see this over and over [52:03] again with this conflation of the [52:04] kingdom of God and America that they [52:07] will take particular decontextualized [52:08] verses and say this should be the policy [52:10] in America. But then to the conservative [52:12] argument which says God is the source of [52:14] truth and goodness and there are [52:16] principles we see in scripture that we [52:17] should um let us let inform our morality [52:20] and therefore shape our laws without [52:22] forcing a theocracy. That's bad. And [52:24] then they'll say, "Well, the kingdom of [52:25] God and America are the same, and we [52:27] should enforce generosity and diversity [52:29] that we see in the early church and the [52:30] future of kingdom uh and the kingdom of [52:33] heaven." [52:33] >> Do you notice how what she did there? [52:35] Come on. I know you guys are smart. I [52:36] know you guys see it. Please leave a [52:38] comment. I'm not even going to respond [52:39] to that. I'll let you respond to that in [52:41] the comments because it's obvious what [52:42] she did there. Rules for thee, not for [52:45] me. Right? All of a sudden, the verses [52:48] that maybe Ben Kramer is using to show [52:50] like, hey, if we're going to be a [52:51] Christian, anything, if we're going to [52:53] advocate as Christians for the good of [52:54] the city, it should look like this. [52:56] Suddenly, those are decontextualized. [52:57] Those are individual mandates, not for [52:59] the church, not for government. But all [53:01] of beliefs around moral law and God's [53:04] law need to be implemented into law in [53:07] America. [53:08] >> But that's the hypocrisy that we see [53:09] over and over again. Conservatives, we [53:11] say that people are made in God's image, [53:13] that murder is wrong, we shouldn't kill [53:14] babies inside the womb. progressives. [53:15] That's Christian nationalism. Now give [53:17] me your lunch money so I can give it to [53:18] the Somalian daycare center. Like those [53:20] are the differences that we're seeing in [53:21] how we interpret how Christians should [53:22] interact with politics in America and [53:25] that's what's going on here. [53:26] >> I'm glad Ali said that because she just [53:27] shows what a liar she is. She's a She's [53:30] a liar. She's lying. The Somali daycare [53:33] fraud has been debunked a thousand [53:34] billion trillion times. Nick Shirley is [53:36] a complete, frankly And Al is [53:40] going to trust the work of a 23-year-old [53:42] YouTuber who's been debunked so many [53:43] different ways. Go watch his interview [53:45] with with the Channel 5 account and use [53:46] that as kind of proof that what [53:48] progressives want to steal lunch money [53:49] and give it to Somalians. No, [53:51] progressives want billionaires to pay [53:53] their fair share so the rest of us can [53:55] freaking survive. That's not a crazy [53:58] thing to say in the world's richest [54:00] country. We have the data. The wealth [54:02] gap keeps growing. It keeps growing, [54:04] Ally. And not just Christian, [54:06] progressive Christians, but many other [54:07] people, atheist, Muslim, Hindu, also see [54:11] the same problem and agree that we need [54:13] a more effective tax rate because we are [54:16] dying. The middle class is eroding and [54:19] the upper class is killing us. But [54:22] Alli's caricature of what she just said [54:24] is all the right hot button issues for [54:26] her audience to be convinced that us [54:28] progressives are just hypocritical and [54:30] we want to take their money. I don't [54:32] want to take your money. I don't even [54:33] want to take Alli's money. I want to [54:35] take Elon Musk's money, the man who's [54:37] worth $400 billion dollars. I want to [54:39] take some of that money and put it to [54:41] good use instead of him hoarding it, [54:42] which again, James 5 condemns. [54:46] >> We got more on this. Let me pause. Tell [54:47] you about our next sponsor for the [54:48] >> No, no more sponsors. [54:50] You guys hanging in there. I know this [54:51] is a long one, but I'm I'm committed. [54:53] I'm committed to getting through it. I'm [54:54] committed. We have to. Peace by freaking [54:58] piece. All right, here we go. [54:59] >> You'll get 20% off your order when you [55:01] use my code. That's [55:01] weeheartnutrition.com. Code Alley. Ugh, [55:04] don't do that. [55:06] >> Leave a comment, like the video. [55:08] >> We see a lot from so-called progressive [55:09] Christians that Jesus was an activist. [55:11] He was killed by basically ICE agents in [55:14] the Roman Empire just following orders, [55:16] just doing their jobs. He was an [55:18] activist killed by the Roman Empire for [55:20] um opposing state power. That is not [55:23] true. That is not why Jesus died. Jesus [55:27] gave up his own life voluntarily. We [55:28] read that in John 10:18. No one takes it [55:31] my life from me, but I lay it down. And [55:33] Jesus says, "Of my own accord. I have [55:35] authority to lay it down and I have [55:37] authority to take it up again. This [55:39] charge I have received from my father." [55:42] >> That doesn't change what happened. It [55:44] doesn't change that Jesus was still [55:46] killed by the empire. He was still [55:48] crucified by guards who were just doing [55:50] their job. And he was seen as someone [55:53] who could have incited an insurrection [55:54] in Rome. And the Jewish leaders at the [55:57] time didn't like him either. And they [55:59] conspired with the Roman Empire. That's [56:00] the story. [56:03] Doesn't matter if he did it willingly or [56:04] not, it still happened. [56:06] >> You know, we get this like weak hippie [56:08] Jesus from these progressives that was [56:10] basically like a communist non-binary [56:12] activist. And that's not who he was. [56:14] Jesus is God. Ephesians 5:2 and walk in [56:17] love as Christ loved us and gave himself [56:20] up for us a fragrant offering and [56:22] sacrifice to God. He gave himself up for [56:25] us. Jesus, first of all, was not an [56:28] activist. He changed yes how the world [56:30] saw and treated vulnerable people. [56:33] Christians have carried that baton for [56:35] millennia by the way. But he was not [56:37] killed for opposing state power. [56:39] Christians by taking the baton of the [56:41] gospel and the belief in the imo day. [56:44] The belief in actual biblical justice [56:46] have changed cultures have forged [56:49] Western civilization have ended [56:51] infanticide and child sacrifice in so [56:54] many different ways across all kinds of [56:56] cultures. And I would actually love [56:58] those on the progressive side who call [56:59] themselves Christians to join us in that [57:01] fight. And yet, for some reason, [57:03] brutalizing kids outside of the inside [57:05] the womb, brutalizing kids outside of [57:06] the womb. I [57:07] >> I'm sorry. I need to be clear here. [57:09] Abortion is not killing kids. We're not [57:11] talking about kids. The majority of [57:12] abortions happen before 6 or 7 weeks. 1% [57:15] of abortions happen in the third [57:16] trimester because something has gone [57:18] terribly wrong. I refuse to let Ally [57:20] mischaracterize what abortion is and [57:22] what it isn't. And again, Ally, if you [57:23] cared that much, if they were killing [57:25] kids, then join us in advocating for [57:28] laws that actually reduce abortion. [57:31] Advocate for us, advocate with us for [57:33] more access to contraceptives, better [57:35] sex education, affordable health care, [57:37] livable wages, all things that go into [57:39] lowering abortion rates. But she won't [57:40] do that because that's hippie, [57:42] communist, socialist, non-binary Jesus. [57:44] She's so committed to her political [57:46] dogma. She can't even read the red [57:48] letters without seeing it as some kind [57:50] of like uh she she doesn't even read [57:53] them. I mean, how do you read the red [57:54] letters and go this is the take. This is [57:57] the take. [57:58] >> Say they're born in the wrong body. That [58:00] apparently is great biblically. Those of [58:02] us who oppose that are Christian [58:04] nationalists, but they won't join us in [58:05] the fight to care for the imo day of the [58:07] people [58:07] >> because you're not data informed. Ally, [58:09] the policies that you're advocating for [58:11] are killing our trans neighbors. There [58:13] again, studies matter, data matters, [58:16] period. There has been study after study [58:18] after study shown that gender affirming [58:20] care, access to it helps lower the risk [58:23] of unaliving. It lowers the risk of [58:26] depression. And by the way, when it [58:28] comes to minors who are perhaps [58:30] transgender or struggling struggling [58:32] with gender dysphoria, it's a very rare [58:35] I mean I think the number is like 0.01%. [58:38] It's a couple thousand kids who are even [58:40] seeking some kind of medical option, [58:41] which by the way, none of which include [58:43] surgery. And again, we have data on that [58:45] that gender affirming care for them with [58:47] their parents, right? Isn't Ally all [58:48] about keeping the state out of the out [58:50] of parents lives? She said earlier, [58:52] right? We want we want more rights for [58:53] parents. Okay, then give parents the [58:55] right to make the best medically [58:57] informed decision with their kid [59:00] instead of using the federal government [59:02] to say, "No, you can't do that." [59:05] Alli loves the big government. Ally [59:07] loves a big government invading your [59:10] bedroom and your child's room and your [59:12] medical appointments when it's what she [59:14] thinks the government should be doing. [59:17] >> You actually can't defend themselves. [59:18] And yet it's been Kramer who says you [59:20] have a clever way of ignoring the [59:21] commands of God so you can follow your [59:23] own teachings. He's quoting Jesus in [59:25] Mark 79. I would say that he should be [59:28] very careful of quoting Mark 7:9 here [59:30] because that could be said about him. In [59:33] fact, if we look at the context of Mark [59:35] 7, we see that the Pharisees are [59:36] gathering around Jesus and they're [59:37] noticing that his disciples are eating [59:39] without having washed their hands, which [59:41] goes against tradition. [59:43] >> They're breaking the law [59:44] >> demand against this. And so Jesus [59:45] rebukes them. Mark 7 uh 6-9. And he said [59:48] to them, "Well did Isaiah prophesy of [59:50] you hypocrites, as it is written, this [59:52] people honors me with their lips, but [59:53] their heart is far from me. In vain do [59:55] they worship me, teaching as doctrines [59:57] the commandments of men. you leave the [59:59] commandment of God and hold to the [60:01] tradition of men. And he said to them, [60:03] "You have a fine way of rejecting the [60:05] commandment of God in order to establish [60:06] your tradition." [60:08] >> Who's going to tell her that the [60:09] Pharisees thought they were following [60:10] the commands of God? Who's going to tell [60:12] her? Who's going to tell Ally the [60:14] obvious? She can't even see it. Just [60:16] like how Ally thinks that she's [60:18] following the commands of God as it [60:19] kills and hurts and and and and [60:22] marginalizes their neighbor. This is [60:24] exactly what's happening here. These [60:26] people honor me with their lips, but [60:28] their heart is far from me. Is exactly [60:31] what Christian nationalists like Ally [60:33] do. They will tell you that that they're [60:36] honoring God as they vote for the most [60:37] immoral, degenerate man to ever take [60:39] office in our lifetime. A man who calls [60:42] women piggy. A man who assaults women. A [60:44] man who lies through his teeth. A man [60:46] who posts AI memes of him taking a dump [60:49] on peaceful protesters. All the name of [60:52] God and God's commands. She honors God [60:54] with her lips, but her heart is far from [60:57] him. If Jesus is God and the red letters [61:00] are true, then what Jesus taught is true [61:03] for the life of the believer. [61:06] So advocate for those things and that's [61:07] not Christian nationalism because those [61:09] things actually expand the rights of all [61:11] of our neighbors. They actually benefit [61:13] our marginalized neighbor, not take it [61:14] away. And like I said earlier, we can [61:16] work with other religious groups like my [61:18] friend Kas Rashid who's Muslim to find [61:20] the value of why these policies help not [61:23] harm. Alli is just creating really um uh [61:28] clever ways to continue hurting people. [61:30] That's what it comes down to. [61:32] >> So I think that Ben Kramer and others [61:35] like him and we should all read [61:36] scripture and assess our own lives and [61:38] our own sides and our own hearts. But I [61:40] see this so clearly reflected in someone [61:42] who is using the principles of man, the [61:44] principles of secular progressivism and [61:46] is proof texting the Bible to try to fit [61:48] those interpretations into his belief [61:51] system. The truth is is that many of the [61:53] examples that Kramer is using from these [61:55] biblical narratives have nothing to do [61:57] with how God says a nation should be [61:59] governed. He takes these interpersonal [62:01] commands about our relationships and how [62:02] we should voluntarily treat other people [62:04] and he projects that into prescribed [62:07] policy. But then Ally will use the verse [62:10] in Matthew 7 when Christ reaffirms [62:12] Genesis 1 as proof that a nation can't [62:15] allow same-sex couples to get married. [62:18] Alli is making this up. Okay, this there [62:22] is no absolutely no [62:27] no notion that when Christ teaches his [62:29] disciples how to live and what the [62:31] kingdom looks like that what he's saying [62:32] is and this only applies to you as an [62:34] individual. No. In fact, again, like [62:38] Ally uses the Bible when it's convenient [62:40] for her to talk about law. Of course, [62:43] the laws even in the Hebrew Bible that [62:45] don't benefit the marginalized, she'll [62:47] ignore and then she'll appeal to again [62:49] things that are never mentioned. Trans [62:51] people are not mentioned in the Bible. [62:52] Abortion is never talked about in the [62:54] Bible. And no, it's not murder. So, I [62:56] reject this notion of, well, abortion is [62:58] murder. Murders is bad in the Bible. [63:00] Therefore, abortion is murder. It's in [63:02] the Bible. No, I reject that line of uh [63:05] of of that that that that line of logic. [63:07] It is not accurate. It's a [63:09] mischaracterization intentionally used [63:11] by Alli to focus on on on a on a a [63:14] culture war issue that ultimately [63:16] doesn't even affect them. It's so easy [63:19] to advocate for the unborn when they [63:22] don't cost you anything. Then of course [63:24] once they're born, screw them. No, you [63:26] can't have affordable healthcare. You [63:27] can't have free school lunches. That's [63:29] crazy. [63:31] That's socialism. really Kramer seems to [63:33] imply through these interpretations that [63:35] he would rather we adopt his version of [63:38] Christian nationalism, one in which the [63:39] government takes on the personal [63:40] responsibilities that Christians have to [63:42] show generosity and kindness. And I [63:44] think it's a really good reminder for [63:45] all of us, but especially a pastor, what [63:47] 2 Timothy 2:15 says, "Do your best to [63:50] present yourself to God as one approved, [63:51] a worker who has no need to be ashamed, [63:53] rightly handling the word of truth." [63:57] One thing I wanted to mention briefly uh [63:58] well I say this a lot but you know if if [64:01] that let's say Al's right let's say that [64:03] the call of the Christian on an [64:04] individual level which the Bible was not [64:06] written in indivi in a in a western [64:08] individualistic context it's written in [64:10] a communal context different story if [64:13] that's the case then Christians like her [64:15] are doing a job because poverty is [64:20] growing medical debt is growing the wage [64:23] gap is growing people can't afford their [64:26] groceries. People can't afford to feed [64:28] their kids. So, if Alli's right, where [64:30] the mandate of the Christian is to offer [64:32] charity, you're not doing it right. [64:34] You're not solving the problem. You [64:37] haven't fixed the issue. Now, she'd [64:38] probably quote Jesus out of context by [64:40] saying, "Well, Jesus says the poor will [64:42] always be with you," which is a total [64:43] twisting of scripture. Total. And [64:46] somehow overwrites the attempt to make [64:48] the world a better place and to make [64:50] sure our neighbors who are hungry and [64:51] who are poor have access to resources so [64:54] they can flourish. [64:57] This is why I wanted to respond to this [64:59] video because there's just so much [65:00] sewage coming out of her mouth. [65:01] >> Another former pastor and um so-called [65:03] Christian leader, John Pavlovich. He is [65:06] apparently a former evangelical pastor [65:08] and now he is a writer. I have tried to [65:10] get him on my show several times. We've [65:12] gone back and forth a few times over the [65:13] years because he is far-left LGBTQ [65:16] affirming and he deconstructed at some [65:18] point. He is no longer a pastor. and he [65:20] posted on Instagram that the biggest [65:22] threat to our country. In fact, the [65:24] source of all of our strife and all of [65:26] our woes as a nation come from white [65:29] evangelicals, conservative white [65:31] evangelicals, not black evangelicals, [65:32] not Hispanic evangelicals who might [65:34] share our same belief, but certain [65:36] people of a certain melanin count who [65:37] are also conservative evangelicals. So, [65:39] let's go through this post that as of [65:41] now has over 42,000 likes on Instagram. [65:44] So, it's obviously resonating with some [65:45] people. A pastor is warning, not a [65:47] pastor, I just want to point that out. [65:48] He's not pastor anymore. Uh, we're not [65:50] in a civil war, but a Christian [65:52] nationalist holy war and they must not [65:55] win. News to me. News to me, John. I [65:58] need you. [65:59] >> No, it's not. The language of Look, I'm [66:01] a former evangelical. I was baptized in [66:03] this world. The language of war is all [66:06] over the place. I learned as a kid the [66:08] song that I'm in God's army. Okay, [66:10] listen to Lance Wan now preach. Listen [66:12] to Doug Wilson talk. Listen to Alli's [66:15] favorite protector of abusers, John [66:17] MacArthur. He will absolutely talk in [66:19] ways of us versus them, of enemies and [66:22] being on God's side. The war language is [66:25] all over evangelicalism. And any of you [66:27] who grew up in that world know exactly [66:28] what I'm talking about. [66:30] >> And something he argues conservative [66:31] white evangelicals need to be stopped. [66:34] You might agree with me as a simple [66:36] emotional reflex, he says, but that's [66:37] not enough. I need you to know the [66:38] danger and the urgency of this moment. [66:41] >> He says that our moral failure as [66:43] evangelicals will get exponentially [66:44] worse now that we have an unprecedented [66:46] opportunity. We are religious [66:48] extremists. And so listen to this. I [66:50] don't know if you knew I don't know if [66:52] you knew this about our power and just [66:53] how powerful we are. White evangelicals. [66:56] He says if allowed to continue their [66:58] death grip on all three branches of [67:00] government, death grip, conservative [67:02] Christians will render this nation [67:03] unrecognizable. [67:05] >> LGBTQ people, Muslims, women, people of [67:08] color, immigrants, and non-Christians [67:09] will never have equality under the law [67:12] again. I would like to see your source [67:14] cited. Are you joking? Go through Alli's [67:18] Ally, your own words. You did a a [67:20] Twitter poll a couple months ago about [67:23] what's the biggest threat to America and [67:25] your audience said Muslims. Like the [67:28] Muslim hate is all over the right-wing [67:30] world. Are you joking? You want to [67:32] overturn a Burgerell? You're in a promo [67:35] to overturn the right for queer people [67:38] to get married. That's a reduction of [67:40] their rights. that the sourcing is in [67:43] your own work. The sourcing is in the [67:46] words of your friend Charlie Kirk before [67:48] he was killed. The sources are all over [67:51] the white evangelical space. The sources [67:53] are Pete Hegsth. The sources are Donald [67:56] Trump, JD Vance, [67:58] Haitian immigrants are eating the cats [68:00] and dogs lies. [68:02] I I guys, I would love if someone's out [68:05] there who's conservative, please help me [68:06] understand how she doesn't see it. [68:11] We literally in Philadelphia I'm very [68:13] close to Philly. I'm in New Jersey, [68:15] right on the other side of the bridge. [68:16] We literally had a uh um there there was [68:20] a a um Wow, I I swear I can talk. There [68:24] was an exhibit um by the president's [68:26] house where George Washington was [68:28] talking about the slaves that he owned. [68:30] That was taken down because of Trump's [68:32] orders. People of color, their history [68:34] is being erased. Charlie Kirk [68:38] called them prowling blacks. Give me a [68:41] break, Ally. You You just I mean, this [68:44] is your brain on fundamentalism, guys. [68:45] It is It's wild. And again, I was a [68:47] former fundamentalist. I understand how [68:49] I thought, but I don't know how I saw it [68:52] as so logical because this is crazy. [68:55] >> Can I just want to pause for a second? [68:57] Is democracy does democracy mean people [68:59] who I like are elected? Like, I just [69:01] want to be clear about that. He says we [69:03] have a death grip on all three branches [69:04] of government. Well, Donald Trump was [69:06] elected by popular and electoral vote. [69:08] So, what what happened there? What [69:11] >> 80% of white evangelicals voted for [69:13] Trump. They're the biggest uh religious [69:14] group to vote for him. They actually [69:16] they absolutely can sway elections. The [69:18] gains in other minority groups were not [69:19] nearly as large. And white Christian [69:23] nationalists have a death grip on all [69:25] three branches of government. [69:28] Pete Hegsth, the Department of War, [69:30] raging Christian nationalist who thinks [69:32] the 19th Amendment should be overturned. [69:35] Paul the White is bringing all of her [69:37] charismatic Christian friends into the [69:39] White House to help shape policy. [69:42] Christians are all over the place, Ally. [69:44] The Supreme Court was picked by you guys [69:47] undoing all kinds of things for people. [69:49] Yes, you do have a death grip. Ally [69:52] wants to downplay to her audience the [69:53] reality. There's a great book by [69:54] Katherine Stewart, God Money and Lies [69:56] that goes into the into the deep dive of [69:58] the funding by groups like the Heritage [70:00] Foundation or uh the Alliance Defending [70:03] Freedom. These groups are funded by [70:05] billionaires to shape policy for [70:08] millions and millions of people and they [70:10] are steeped in white evangelical [70:12] fundamentalism. [70:13] Again, just do your research, Ally. [70:15] >> Is it a death grip just when the people [70:17] that you didn't vote for get elected? Do [70:19] you believe in democracy or not? or do [70:21] you believe in your version of a [70:22] Christian nationalist theocracy? [70:24] >> Notice how John doesn't talk about um [70:26] even who they voted for. He talks about [70:28] white evangelicals in particular, the [70:30] ones who are committed to taking over [70:33] the country, the ones who have a seven [70:34] mountain mandate to infiltrate every [70:36] mountain of society and to take it over. [70:40] >> I would love to know. Um he says [70:42] full-blown theocracy is the plan. Trust [70:46] me. Trust me, bro, when I tell you that [70:48] we won't recover from it if they are [70:49] ever given greater power or prolonged [70:52] influence. If we fail at opposing their [70:53] christofascist agenda in both the [70:56] streets and the polls, he's looking for [70:57] more martyrs. By the way, my opinion is [70:59] that he's looking for more Renee Goods [71:00] and more Alex Pies because that gives [71:03] him um the ability to stoke these flames [71:06] that [71:06] >> notice how she calls them martyrs when [71:08] no one calls them that. And notice how [71:12] she dehumanizes Renee Nicole Good, who [71:14] was shot at point blank range by an ICE [71:16] agent, who then called her an effing [71:17] bord as she drove away and bled out and [71:19] died and crashed into a car. And Alex, [71:22] who was disarmed with his legally owned [71:24] firearm and then shot at point blank [71:26] range 10 plus times. They're martyrs, [71:29] right? Their lives don't really matter. [71:32] They're just casualties of war because, [71:33] you know, they were they were [71:34] instigating it. They they they weren't [71:36] following orders. [71:39] We want more of those people. We're [71:40] trying to stop that from happening, [71:42] Ally. We're trying to stop those things [71:44] from happening by telling the federal [71:46] government, "Get the heck out of [71:48] Minnesota. Stop sending masked goons who [71:51] are who are hitting people and arresting [71:54] people with no due process and storming [71:56] into houses with no warrants. Stop doing [71:59] that. You're hurting people." [72:00] >> Thinks will change the course of the [72:02] next election. He said, "We won't have [72:03] elections anymore. We will never have a [72:05] voice again in our lifetimes." Okay, [72:08] this is the kind of stuff that inspires [72:09] very tragically people like Renee Good [72:11] and Alex Prey to go out into the streets [72:13] and to bust the tail lights of ICE [72:15] officers and try to run over another ICE [72:17] officer. [72:17] >> This is crazy [72:18] >> because people believe stuff like this. [72:19] >> Okay, no problem. Let me let me just [72:21] read you guys a headline. I'm going to [72:22] search this in real time. Trump wants [72:26] I'm going to do this this shot. Pull up [72:28] right here. [72:30] Okay, again, anyone who researches how [72:32] fascism works, um, anyone who's read a [72:36] freaking history book can see the [72:38] playbook. New York Times headline, Trump [72:41] repeats call to nationalize elections. [72:45] Trump says Republicans should [72:46] nationalize elections, take control from [72:49] states. Yes, John is right. John is [72:53] right. If Trump gets what he wants, if [72:55] white evangelicals get what they want as [72:57] a voting group, we will not have free [72:59] and fair elections. They're still lying [73:01] about 2020 where they then storm the [73:03] Capitol building based on that lie. [73:06] John's totally right here. [73:07] >> Now, any citation or any source, just [73:09] trust me, bro. I don't know, but I know. [73:11] No, like that's the vibe that's going on [73:12] here. And unfortunately, people who are [73:15] already unstable in some way, [73:16] >> Wow. [73:17] >> or already have resentment in some way, [73:19] they are um very insensed by this. He [73:22] said, "I wish more decent people in [73:23] America remembered that they are among [73:25] the vast majority instead of acting as [73:26] if they are helpless victims of [73:28] Republican Christians. We could defeat [73:29] them. We need to defeat them and we have [73:32] to oppose them." yada yada. He says, "As [73:34] a former pastor, [73:35] >> I can't make this any clearer." So, the [73:37] top line was that he's a pastor now. [73:38] He's a former pastor. White evangelical [73:40] Christians. Listen to this. Listen to [73:41] this and tell me if this reminds you of [73:43] any dangerous language that you have [73:45] seen in the past that has led to some [73:47] very scary movements around the world. [73:50] He says, "White evangelical Christians [73:52] are the source of everything afflicting [73:54] our nation. All of this violence, chaos, [73:57] dehumanization, and suffering, if you [73:59] want the beautiful, expansive humanity [74:01] of this world to be equally protected, [74:03] respected, and cared for, they need to [74:06] be stopped." [74:07] >> He's right. [74:08] >> All right. So, I just want to remind you [74:10] that evangelical Christians, Christians [74:12] who pray every day, Christians who go to [74:14] church every week, that statistically we [74:16] give the most in charity, that we adopt [74:18] the most children. [74:19] that we offer the most volunteer service [74:21] hours every year. Uh this is the [74:24] hallmark of Christianity. This is why we [74:26] have this amazing country in which we [74:28] have something called rights that can't [74:29] be arbitrarily given and taken away by [74:31] the government. [74:32] >> Oh, really? Ally? Did does Liam have [74:34] rights? [74:37] I agree with you. So why are you [74:39] allowing Trump to arbitrarily violate [74:42] the rights of other people, including [74:43] Alex Freddy's? Alex Party had a [74:45] god-given right based on your own logic [74:47] to record the police, to record ICE or [74:50] Border Patrol. [74:53] Oh, egg on her face. Like, you you don't [74:55] even see it. You have no problem using [74:57] the government as a weapon of oppression [74:59] for those you don't like. And by the [75:01] way, we have to call this out. She tried [75:03] to insinuate that John's language is [75:04] like maybe echoing, you know, another [75:07] nation where people were targeted. The [75:09] difference, Ally, is that you are the [75:11] majority. You are the ones in charge. [75:13] you're the ones using the government to [75:15] oppress other people. That's what [75:18] happened in Germany. The Jews were not a [75:21] majority. The Jews were not in power and [75:23] they were scapegoed. [75:25] They were scapegoed. And John is right [75:28] with what he says. I've been tracking [75:30] white evangelicalism for a long time. I [75:32] grew up in it. They are hellbent on [75:35] taking over. Don't forget they elected [75:37] Trump, right? So all the chaos that you [75:40] see under this administration is because [75:41] of them. point blank. They have the [75:44] infrastructure. Guys, if you didn't grow [75:46] up in this world, let me give you one [75:47] example of how this works. You can't uh [75:50] churches legally can't endorse a [75:52] political candidate. So, what white [75:53] evangelical churches do is they give you [75:55] a voter's guide before an election, and [75:57] it tells you where the candidates stand [75:59] on the issues. And here's how they [76:00] here's how they do it. George Bush [76:03] stands for life, protecting the unborn. [76:07] Um, [76:09] who ran who ran against [76:14] Bush? Was it McCain? No, it was Obama [76:16] McCain. Wow, it's a long time ago. [76:17] George Bush. [76:20] We'll do Obama and McCain. That's That's [76:22] a better one. Okay, so here's how it [76:23] goes. [76:26] John McCain wants to protect all life, [76:28] including the life of the unborn. [76:30] President Obama wants to kill children [76:32] up until the point of birth and wants [76:34] more abortions in the country. [76:37] John McCain wants to protect the [76:39] sanctity of marriage and believes that [76:42] marriage is between one woman one woman [76:43] and one man for life. President Obama [76:46] wants more gays in the country to have [76:48] equal rights under the law [76:51] which was destroying the institution of [76:53] marriage. They present this like [76:55] incredibly unfair binary where one side [76:58] is clearly on God's side and the other [77:00] side the guy is terrible. That's how [77:03] this works. This is why we have this [77:05] concept of the imago day that people [77:07] matter because they're people, not [77:09] because of their uh political capital, [77:12] not because of their productivity, not [77:13] because of what ancient Roman Greece and [77:16] and Greece society believed that you [77:17] have to have a logos or the abil ability [77:19] to rationalize in order to be a valuable [77:21] person, but people matter because [77:23] they're people. We have that concept. We [77:25] have the concept of justice [77:27] >> because of Christianity. Does is Eugene [77:29] Carol a human who deserves justice after [77:33] Trump assaulted her? I'm sorry, Ally. [77:36] You guys, you can poke a billion holes [77:38] in her words. The words that she says, [77:40] she does not mean. Look at the fruit. [77:42] Forget what she says. Look at the fruit [77:45] of what she votes for. Did the [77:46] Venezuelans in boats [77:49] are they made in the IMO day? Because [77:51] Ally tweeted that she is. So, what' she [77:53] say? She said, "I couldn't have voted [77:55] more for this." after she retweeted a [77:57] news story that we sniped a Venezuelan [78:00] boat. The government says it was the [78:02] government says it was a drug boat. [78:03] There's no evidence of that. Out of [78:04] international waters. Did those people [78:08] had the image of God on them, Ally? Were [78:10] they deserving of due process? Do we [78:13] even know if they were heading towards [78:14] America? Do we even know if they had [78:16] drugs on board? And even if they did, is [78:18] that worthy of a death sentence? [78:21] Look at the fruit, friends. look at the [78:23] fruit of what she uh of what her [78:25] policies do, not her words. [78:27] >> And yet this person who still claims to [78:29] be a Christian, by the way, says that [78:30] it's white evangelicals who are the [78:32] source of all of our affliction. What do [78:34] you think that is going to encourage his [78:36] readers to go out and do [78:38] >> nothing? [78:38] >> He says, "America is not in a civil war. [78:39] We're in white Christian nationalist [78:41] grim and loveless holy war. [78:44] >> All people of faith, morality, and [78:45] conscience need to stand together and [78:47] push them back into the hell they came [78:49] from." I mean, you cannot get any [78:52] stronger language that seems to be a [78:54] death threat without coming out and [78:56] saying it. [78:56] >> It is so funny that Ally will not say [78:59] anything when um Donald Trump called for [79:01] the actual literal execution of [79:03] Democratic lawmakers. When they said to [79:06] the military, you don't have to obey [79:07] unlawful orders. That's just Trump [79:09] talking. When Trump calls people [79:12] holes or countries holes, nah, [79:14] that's just Trump talking. When Trump [79:16] calls them animals, nah, that's just [79:17] Trump talking. When John Pavitz says we [79:19] have to fight back against white [79:20] Christian nationalism that is [79:22] responsible for the death and decay we [79:24] see in our country and he uses what? [79:26] Colorful hyperbolic language. The [79:29] imagery that they would use against [79:30] their own enemies. Suddenly that's a [79:32] death threat. Ally, you are not serious. [79:34] You're not serious. [79:35] >> Like that is some pretty radical stuff [79:37] that is getting almost 50,000 likes on [79:40] Instagram by someone who claims to be a [79:42] Christian. [79:42] >> She's really trying to push the [79:43] narrative that that that progressive [79:45] Christians are violent. Again, look at [79:47] who stormed the capital. Look at who [79:49] Patriot Front is. Look at who the [79:50] Oathkeepers are. What progressive [79:52] Christian groups are going out there [79:54] stirring up chaos and violence. I would [79:56] love to know love to know. [79:57] >> Love sincerely to have John on the show [80:00] like any format in person. I would love [80:02] for us to have a conversation and I want [80:04] to know give me your examples. Give me [80:06] your examples of this. How are we the [80:09] source of affliction? I've been an [80:12] evangelical Christian my entire life. I [80:14] am around evangelical Christians every [80:16] single day. And when I think about, for [80:18] example, Share the Arrows, um, and [80:20] having six to 7,000 women for the past [80:23] two years in one room worshiping [80:25] together, loving each other, holding [80:27] each other's babies, comforting each [80:29] other when they cried, befriending [80:31] strangers from all around the world. I [80:32] can tell you, these are the kindest, the [80:34] most loving, the most charitable, the [80:36] most generous women you will ever find. [80:39] >> So are the people who voted for Nazis. [80:41] I'm going to say it. It doesn't matter. [80:44] See, this is the difference. Ally has [80:45] this hyperindividualistic look um [80:48] worldview when it comes to love and [80:50] acceptance and caring for your own, but [80:52] on a policy level, she has a very [80:54] exclusionary screw the immigrants, screw [80:56] the queer people, screw the the the [80:59] black community approach. So, I don't [81:01] care how loving your tribe is to each [81:04] other, Ally. I don't care. I don't care. [81:06] That's great. I'm happy that that your [81:08] tribe loves each other. What I care [81:10] about are the policies you are voting [81:13] for. What I care about is the fruit of [81:16] your political theology and it is [81:19] responsible for Trump. It is responsible [81:21] for the hell on earth our neighbors are [81:24] experiencing right now. I hope Ally goes [81:27] to Minneapolis and actually sits with [81:29] the people who are being affected by [81:31] this tyrannical regime. It actually has [81:33] a a come to Jesus moment. [81:36] It is it's so disingenuous. [81:39] And frankly, it's just kind of vile to [81:41] watch Ally try and frame her event of [81:45] 6,000 women loving each other as somehow [81:48] proof that white evangelicals as a group [81:50] are good people when they vote for the [81:52] man who brags about assaulting the very [81:54] women [81:56] that Ally tends to represent. Would you [81:59] really put Donald Trump in a room alone [82:01] with with a woman, Ally, given his track [82:03] record? And if you would, your dogma [82:06] blinds you to reality. You're living in [82:08] what Jared Stacy calls, by the way, [82:09] great book coming out right here. It's [82:11] called Reality in Ruins. I'm not paid to [82:13] endorse this. I'm just saying it's a [82:14] great book. Um, he calls it disre. You [82:17] live in disreity. You live in a world [82:19] that isn't real. It's just not. It's a [82:22] It's a world of delusion. [82:24] >> You know what I see when I see the [82:25] people, not saying all people on the [82:27] left or all people who vote Democrat, [82:28] but when I see some of these radically [82:30] violent agitators, people who follow [82:32] people like John Pavlovitz out on the [82:34] street, you know what it reminds me? It [82:35] reminds me of the White Witch's army in [82:37] the Chronicles of Narnia. Like, and I'm [82:39] not just talking about the their outward [82:42] appearance like I am talking about the [82:43] disorder in their heart and their lives. [82:45] >> So, Ally wants proof then about John's [82:48] claims, which are all over the place. [82:50] Then Ally makes assumptions about John's [82:52] followers and them being agitators with [82:54] absolutely no evidence. [82:57] Rules for thee, not for me. Do you see [83:00] it? This is how it works. And there's no [83:02] other explanation besides a profound [83:04] spiritual explanation that these people [83:05] swap evil for good and just cannot see [83:08] things rightly. They are truly blind [83:10] guides. And we should pray for people [83:12] like this and people who believe in this [83:15] kind of stuff. And we've got a biblical [83:16] response to this. And I hope that [83:17] there's someone out there listening that [83:18] the word of God can seep into and [83:20] realize that they need to turn away from [83:21] this and they just need to repent. Let [83:23] me pause and tell you about our next [83:24] sponsor first and that is [83:26] >> Okay, we're going to move on from [83:27] sponsors. We're kind of getting there, [83:28] friends. Appreciate you hanging in. I [83:29] know it's long. would love for you to [83:31] leave a comment, give this video a like. [83:33] Um, I like these kinds of videos. I [83:35] think they're really important to [83:36] respond to. And honestly, I mean, it is [83:39] um, look, this is your brain off [83:40] fundamentalism, friends. It's full of [83:43] paradoxes and contradictions and, um, a [83:47] really low regard for scripture, a low [83:49] regard for following the way of the [83:51] risen and crucified Christ. [83:54] Christ was murdered, crucified, which [83:57] was only reserved for non- Roman [83:58] citizens. Does Ally even know that? Does [84:00] Ally know that Christ was was was killed [84:03] by the state as a non-citizen of Rome? [84:07] She just has no clue. If we're called to [84:10] emulate Jesus, if we're called to learn [84:12] from about truth from who Jesus is, that [84:14] should teach us something about what God [84:16] is like. If God chooses to incarnate [84:19] into a feeding trough, [84:22] to a poor family, and then to die the [84:25] worst, most humiliating, embarrassing [84:27] death that's imaginable. Well, that's [84:29] God. That tells us who God sides with. [84:32] That tells us what God is like. News [84:34] flash ally, God is not the empire. God [84:37] is not Caesar. God uh is not someone who [84:40] would be wearing be wearing an ice vest [84:43] with a gun brutalizing the very people [84:46] that this society says are not worthy of [84:48] the same rights as others. [84:51] people who support Trump or who support [84:53] ICE. Many of the federal agents that [84:55] work for ICE and uh Border Patrol are [84:58] not white. They might not even be [85:00] Republicans. They white might not even [85:02] be evangelicals. But Pavlovitz [85:04] effectively erases um all of those [85:06] groups. They're outside of white [85:07] evangelicals. He erases the legal [85:09] immigrants and the citizens of all [85:10] ethnicities who think secure borders are [85:12] a good idea. Um and he's trying to prop [85:14] up this belief that conservative [85:16] Christians are racist and that we're [85:18] bigots and that we have like a monopoly [85:20] on evil. [85:21] >> Look, I want to be clear about two [85:22] things. Number one, the term white isn't [85:24] just a skin color thing. It's an [85:25] identity. James Conn, who as the father [85:28] of black liberation theology, talks [85:29] about black and white in terms of of of [85:31] where they sit in society. Whiteness [85:34] wants to sit on top. It wants to [85:36] dominate. That's why, like, for example, [85:37] Candace Owens, right, who's a black [85:39] woman, actually embraces a very white [85:42] outlook. [85:44] That's how that's how this works. So I I [85:47] just want to be clear like it's not just [85:48] about skin color and also white [85:51] evangelicalism has created the [85:53] infrastructure where these things [85:55] happen. They've created the theological [85:58] justification for why the violence we're [86:00] seeing today is is fine. It's acceptable [86:02] and why it's the other side that is the [86:05] problem. [86:07] >> And the irony is of course that he is [86:09] accusing white evangelicals of racial [86:11] prejudice while he is practicing that [86:12] himself [86:13] >> and therefore he is showing partiality. [86:15] We read over and over again that [86:16] partiality is a sin. It is not of God. [86:19] >> Did I not call this earlier that Ally [86:20] does this? See, she quotes scripture [86:22] when convenient. All of a sudden, John's [86:24] showing partial. No, he's showing data. [86:26] He's talking about white evangelicals as [86:28] a voting block, which we measure data [86:30] wise. [86:32] And by the way, one last thing. There's [86:34] so much to get to, but I need to respond [86:35] to all of this. Ali Stucky is part of a [86:38] religious tradition that historically [86:39] has been on the on the wrong side of [86:41] history. Bob Jones wanted segregation. [86:43] Uh Jerry Fwell, founder of the moral [86:45] majority, got politicized over school [86:47] integration happening when the federal [86:49] government forced school integration. [86:51] Fundamentalists like Ally back in the [86:53] day said that was an invasion and a and [86:55] a violation of their first amendment [86:57] right to practice the religion in peace [86:59] and in freedom. Not kidding you. Bob [87:01] Jones University sued the Supreme uh [87:03] sued the IRS up to the Supreme Court [87:05] level because the IRS said if you don't [87:07] allow interracial dating on your campus, [87:10] we're going to take away your tax exempt [87:11] status. Bob Jones said, "You're [87:13] infringing on our religious rights. [87:15] We're going to sue you." They lost and [87:17] they didn't overturn their interracial [87:18] dating ban until the year 2000 2000. [87:21] Yeah. 2000. [87:23] The Southern Baptist Convention, which [87:24] Ally is a big fan of, was founded over [87:26] the right to own other human beings in [87:28] 1845. Like Ally doesn't even see this. [87:31] She is so ignorant to her own [87:33] traditions, actions. And what she would [87:35] do is she would distance herself. Well, [87:37] no, I that that wasn't me, right? But [87:38] it's the theology. is the same [87:40] framework. She really is ignorant. Like [87:43] it's kind of it's embarrassing. She's [87:45] just ignorant. [87:45] >> 21. One, for example, my brothers, show [87:47] no partiality as you hold the faith in [87:49] our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of [87:51] glory. We saw this over and over again [87:53] in 2020. People who profess to be [87:54] Christians, telling white people, you [87:56] need to apologize to black people, even [87:58] if you were never involved in any kind [87:59] of racial prejudice. It is your [88:01] responsibility and your burden. And [88:02] black people, you basically have no [88:03] responsibility or agency. You can do [88:05] whatever you want to, and white people [88:06] have to apologize. That is not an [88:07] exaggeration. be the bridge and their [88:10] regulations for their Facebook group and [88:11] the groups that they were hosting [88:12] actually said that white people had to [88:14] allow black women of color to yell and [88:16] whail at them and to accuse them and [88:17] white people couldn't defend themselves. [88:19] >> Yeah. Because that was a private [88:20] Facebook group with certain rules that [88:21] you weren't forced for uh um that you [88:24] weren't forced to join, right? Like for [88:25] example, the New Evangelicals used to [88:27] have a Facebook group and we had a rule [88:28] where if you're a conservative or [88:31] someone who's more moderate to to um we [88:34] said essentially that we were going to [88:35] privilege voices of the abused, voices [88:38] of the marginalized over their voice in [88:40] our group to give people who normally [88:42] don't have a voice a voice. [88:45] A voice that was the point and again it [88:48] wasn't law. It was the rules of our [88:50] private Facebook group which you were [88:51] able to join or not to join. [88:55] Okay, so that was in Christian circles [88:56] that kind of partiality happening. [88:58] Doesn't surprise me that in the secular [88:59] circles and I do consider him secular [89:01] that they are boasting of this kind of [89:02] partiality. But Matthew 7:1-5 tells us, [89:05] "Judge not that you be judged." This is [89:07] a verse that is very popular among [89:08] progressives. But I think the rest of [89:10] the verse is really important. For with [89:11] the judgment you pronounce, you will be [89:13] judged, and with the measure you use, it [89:14] will be measured to you. Why do you see [89:15] the speck that is in your brother's eye, [89:16] but do not notice the log that is in [89:18] your own eye? Or how can you say to your [89:19] brother, "Let me take the speck out of [89:20] your eye when there's a log in your own [89:22] eye, you hypocrite. First take the log [89:24] out of your own eye and you will see [89:25] clearly to take the speck out of your [89:27] brother's eye. And so we are supposed [89:29] to, as we see in John 7:24, not judge by [89:31] appearances. So not skin color, not [89:33] socioeconomic status, but we are to [89:34] judge with right judgment. [89:35] >> I I just want to point out, notice how [89:37] she's all over the place, right? A verse [89:39] from here, a verse from there. The [89:41] context of John is different than the [89:43] context of Matthew, different than the [89:45] context of Ephesians. You can't just [89:47] pick these Bible verses and weave [89:49] together this narrative. That's not [89:52] treating the text with any kind of [89:53] dignity or respect. It's using it for [89:55] your own selfish gain. Again, Ally, [89:57] you'll be judged by the same standard, [89:58] right? That applies to you, too. [90:01] >> It's not that we're not supposed to [90:02] judge. It's not that we're not supposed [90:03] to discern right from wrong. It's not [90:05] that we're not supposed to call out sin, [90:06] but we can't do it hypocritically, and [90:08] we can't do it by judging people on [90:09] appearances, which [90:10] >> Yeah, we can't do it hypocritically. You [90:11] know, we can't talk about the need for [90:12] sexual purity because the gay people are [90:14] ruining the country and vote for a man [90:16] who who blows away every single sexual [90:19] ethic that we preach. [90:21] That's not hypocritical. Why, guys? It's [90:23] not hypocritical that we vote for the [90:25] guy on the cover of Playboy magazine [90:27] while telling our queer neighbors they [90:28] can't get married because we think that [90:29] their sex life is sinful. That's not [90:31] hypocritical. [90:34] Oh my I'm going to get new gray hairs [90:37] watching this video. Like, wow, Ally. [90:39] Wow. Foolish. [90:42] >> Is exactly what Pavlovich is doing. He [90:44] also claims that conservative white [90:46] evangelicals have experienced a quote [90:48] wholesale moral failure without [90:49] providing any examples. Maybe you have [90:52] to subscribe to the Substack and pay [90:53] those $8 a month in order to find out [90:55] what his examples are. But I'm more [90:57] interested in what scripture says here. [90:58] Proverbs 19:5, "A false witness will not [91:00] go unpunished and he who breathes out [91:02] lies will not escape." That's really [91:04] important for all of us, especially [91:05] professional yappers. We talk a lot and [91:07] we need to make sure that we have very [91:09] high standards for the truthfulness of [91:11] what we're saying. Proverbs 10:18, "The [91:13] one who conceals hatred has lying lips, [91:15] and whoever utters slander is a fool." [91:17] >> Does that apply to Trump? Does that [91:18] apply to anyone in your tribe, Ally? [91:20] Does that apply to John MacArthur? [91:22] Again, notice how this is all about [91:24] being this is all being used to judge [91:26] other people. She's just picking and [91:28] choosing. I can pick, if I wanted to, I [91:31] could pick tons of verses and throw them [91:33] at Alley, but she would totally ignore [91:35] me. Say, "I don't care. You're using [91:37] You're using them out of context. [91:38] Therefore, it doesn't apply to me." But [91:40] somehow we're supposed we're supposed to [91:41] take Alloy's accusations seriously. By [91:43] the way, 1 Corinthians 5 tells the [91:45] believer to judge the church and not the [91:48] world. Paul explicitly says it's not his [91:51] business to judge the world. It's his [91:53] business to judge the church and and [91:55] tells the church leaders to do the same [91:57] thing. That verse won't be used when it [92:00] comes to politics for Ally. So again, [92:02] using the Bible, anyone can make the [92:04] Bible say whatever they want to. The [92:07] slaveholders use the Bible as [92:09] justification to own other human beings. [92:12] That's the problem with biblical [92:13] inherency. It falls apart because it's [92:16] not inherent. The text is complicated. [92:18] It's often self-contradicting. It's [92:20] often with error. It's often not telling [92:22] historically accurate information. And [92:25] people can use it in all kinds of ways. [92:27] That's why there are tens of thousands [92:28] of denominations. Some people think that [92:30] women can be pastors. Some think that [92:32] they can't. Some think that you're [92:33] predestined by God to to be saved. [92:36] something that you can choose to be [92:37] saved. I cannot tell you how many [92:40] disagreements there are from the people [92:42] telling you that that that the Bible is [92:44] clear. So, whenever Ally throws a Bible [92:47] verse your way, just take it with a a [92:50] mountainsized grain of salt. [92:52] >> Matthew 12:36, I tell you, on the day of [92:54] judgment, people will give account for [92:56] every careless word that they speak. [92:58] Again, for professional writers, for [93:00] pastors, for podcasters like me, I want [93:02] to take those verses seriously. So I'm [93:04] not just lodging those verses against [93:05] Pavlovitz, those are verses that I want [93:07] to consider every day, [93:08] >> but I wish people like him would also [93:10] consider like if you really fear God and [93:12] you believe that one day you will give [93:14] him account than the accusations you [93:16] make of other people, they carry a lot [93:18] of weight. That's why it's better to [93:19] make accusations against one individual [93:21] because you can be pretty sure that [93:23] you're right. Like if you're digging [93:24] into the truth of that and you're [93:25] actually looking for evidence and you're [93:26] saying, "Okay, that person is sinning. [93:28] This is how I know." you have a much [93:29] better chance of being truthful and [93:31] correct than if you say all people who [93:33] look like that or all people who vote [93:35] like that they all hate babies or they [93:37] all hate immigrants or whatever. You've [93:39] got a really good chance that you're [93:40] lying somewhere in there. So I [93:41] >> Okay, hold on. This is the same person [93:44] who uses the example of Lake and [93:46] O'Reilly to then paint the picture that [93:49] immigrants are a net negative, that [93:51] immigrants are not good people. [93:54] Ally does this all the time. She has [93:56] said that you can't be a Democrat and be [93:58] a Christian. You can't be pro-choice and [93:59] be a Christian. She paints with a broad [94:02] brush all the time. All the time. She [94:06] uses examples of bad people doing bad [94:09] things as proof that immigration is bad, [94:13] that we're being invaded, that people [94:15] like Liam, the 5-year-old, need to be on [94:17] the hook for the actions of a different [94:19] immigrant who killed Lake and Riley. She [94:21] does this ALL THE TIME. WOW. [94:25] I was not ready for that. [94:26] >> Take that seriously as well. Um, [94:28] Pavlovich makes projections that [94:30] conservative white evangelicals will [94:32] usher in fullblown theocracy. He calls [94:34] this a clear and sober forecast because [94:36] if you just say that then it makes it [94:38] so. I declare bankruptcy. It doesn't [94:40] >> Hey, get Michael Scott's name out of [94:42] your mouth, Ally. Okay, that's only for [94:43] the progressive Christians. And by the [94:45] way, look up any of the books. Look up [94:47] the book Dominion. Look up the uh look [94:49] up the teachings of Bill Johnson. I [94:51] doesn't like him, but he's still an [94:52] evangelical. Look up the teachings of [94:53] Doug Wilson. Look, look it up. Look it [94:56] up. It's there, my friend. It's all [94:59] there. Again, read some of the Read [95:02] Jesus and John Wayne. Read Jesus and [95:04] John Wayne. A great his Where is it? [95:07] There we go. A great a great historical [95:10] account with sources. Read the color of [95:11] compromise. Ally, there are books. See, [95:13] this is the thing. Ally is without [95:15] excuse. Ally could read. She could [95:19] choose to read actual scholarship. She [95:22] could choose to read actual biblical [95:24] scholarship or history. She could choose [95:26] to. She chooses not to. She lives in a [95:29] whitewashed fundamentalist bubble where [95:32] her and her tribe are right and good and [95:34] loving. Not perfect, but you're on the [95:36] right path. While the progressives and [95:38] the so-called progressive Christians and [95:41] the DEI hires and the liberals and the [95:43] blue-haired cat, you know, childless cat [95:46] ladies, we're just all evil and [95:48] terrible. We we love when immigrants do [95:51] terrible things in the country. We want [95:53] to open borders. We want to kill [95:55] children. We just want to go around [95:56] killing them. That's how she paints [95:59] people. That's what she believes [96:01] ultimately. And there's nothing you can [96:03] do that will change her mind. There is [96:06] no amount of evidence. There's no amount [96:08] of history. There's no amount of sources [96:11] that will change Alli's mind on [96:12] anything. I used to be an evangelical [96:16] fundamentalist. I changed my mind [96:18] because I found better information. I [96:20] was taught by that space, follow truth [96:22] wherever it leads. So I did and it led [96:24] me straight up the steps of that [96:26] basement into the house of Christian [96:28] thought that was so much more [96:29] complicated and complex and beautiful [96:31] than I ever imagined. But Ally is in [96:34] that basement where there's no windows. [96:36] She's positing herself as the gatekeeper [96:38] for her audience and she's trying to [96:40] interpret what's above ground to her [96:42] audience and lying about it [96:46] and lying about it and her audience [96:48] believes her [96:49] >> like that. Uh women will lose bodily [96:51] autonomy and voting rights. He says but [96:53] here's the truth is that uh we don't [96:55] believe in autonomy at all costs. Not [96:57] Christians. [96:58] >> In fact, autonomy and authenticity are [97:00] only [97:00] >> good if they are in submission to God's [97:02] truth. Authenticity and autonomy used to [97:04] justify things like identifying as the [97:06] opposite gender or killing the baby [97:07] inside your womb is not something that [97:09] Christians should support. [97:10] >> See, notice how Ally can take what she [97:12] even says is a Christian belief. Really, [97:14] it's her own fundamentalist belief. And [97:16] that has to be applied now to everyone [97:17] who's not a Christian, right? If you're [97:18] an atheist and you're trans, too bad, so [97:21] sad. You have to adhere to Alli's [97:23] understanding of the Bible and God's [97:26] moral truth. If you are a woman and you [97:28] need an abortion, too bad, so sad. Owie [97:31] doesn't believe that you should be able [97:32] to have that because that in her mind is [97:34] murder even though it's not. See, see [97:37] this is what we're talking about here. [97:39] She has no problem when it comes to her [97:42] culture war issues to use the Bible or [97:44] God's law justification for why that [97:46] that should be instituted into or [97:49] codified into law. But when it comes to [97:51] helping the poor, that's just an a an [97:53] individual command to individual [97:55] Christians to their individual neighbor. [98:01] So opposing abortion um he's using [98:02] bodily autonomy as a euphemism for that [98:04] which is another form of lying which is [98:05] a sin by the way um abortion is not [98:08] biblical. Exodus 2013 is very simple. [98:10] You shall not murder a baby inside the [98:12] womb whether it's a zygote or whether it [98:14] is a fetus whatever medical language you [98:16] want to use that is still a living human [98:18] being that is defenseless and legally [98:19] innocent and therefore by definition [98:22] killing that human being is murder. [98:24] >> I just want to point out a couple things [98:25] here. Um Ally believes in total [98:27] depravity. She believes that all humans [98:29] are born inherently sinful. If Ally [98:31] believes that a life begins at the [98:33] second of conception, then that life is [98:35] inherently sinful and depraved. Unless [98:37] God wakes it up out of its depraved [98:39] state and saves it, which we don't even [98:41] know. We don't even know. I'm going to [98:42] say something maybe controversial for [98:44] some of you, but I need you to hear me. [98:45] The logic for a lot of people like Ally [98:47] who live in this Calvinist world would [98:48] say that or even the evangelical world [98:50] would they they have this term called [98:52] the age of accountability. At what age [98:55] is a child responsible for their sin? [98:58] And at what age, if they perish before [99:00] that, would they go to heaven? Right? [99:02] Because the logic is makes sense. Like, [99:04] how can you blame a kid for being a kid? [99:06] And they have all these different pieces [99:08] of rhetoric. If that's the case, if Ally [99:11] really believed that, wouldn't more [99:14] abortions send more kids to heaven [99:17] because they're they're sent to heaven [99:19] before the age of accountability? Why [99:21] risk Ally eternal damnation? [99:25] Because there's a good chance that child [99:27] born will not be saved by God under your [99:30] worldview. The majority of humankind is [99:33] passed over in Alli's mind. Because if [99:35] you're not saved how she says you're [99:37] saved, you are not part of the elect. [99:39] You're part of the reprobate. Wouldn't [99:41] it make more sense, Ally, to promote [99:44] abortion because more souls go to heaven [99:46] and don't risk damnation? Now again, [99:49] that's a crazy thing to say. Of course [99:52] not. Because we know instinctively that [99:54] this life can be good and beautiful, and [99:56] we want we want we want we want to [99:58] preserve that life. But Alli's own logic [100:01] betrays her. [100:04] It betrays her. She doesn't really [100:06] believe this stuff. And if she did, but [100:09] she might, she's living in a in a in a [100:11] paradox, in a contradiction. [100:16] I had this thought when I was still an [100:18] evangelical. This is this isn't some [100:19] radical leftist thought. Thought, wait a [100:21] second, if we believe that kids go to [100:23] heaven if they die too early. [100:25] No, that can't be right. That doesn't [100:26] make that doesn't make any sense. But [100:28] also, it makes sense in that worldview. [100:30] That's why when the whole thing's about [100:31] heaven or hell, it falls apart because [100:33] if you really believed it, you would do [100:35] some pretty crazy things. Why risk it if [100:37] you're absolutely certain that people [100:39] are going to burn in hell forever? [100:42] >> So, of course, Christians should be [100:43] against it. That's like Christianity [100:44] 101. We should be against murder. Psalm [100:46] 139. [100:47] >> Unless you're a Venezuelan drug boat, [100:49] allegedly, then you should be killed. [100:51] >> For you formed my inward parts. You knit [100:52] me together in my mother's womb. I [100:54] praise you for I'm fearfully and [100:55] wonderfully made. Wonderful are your [100:56] works. My soul knows it very well. I [100:58] love this part. My frame was not hidden [101:00] from you when I was being made in [101:01] secret, intricately woven in the depths [101:03] of the earth. Your eye saw my unformed [101:05] substance. And then in your book were [101:07] written uh were written for me all the [101:09] days as yet there were none of them. My [101:10] unformed substance. So, [101:12] >> I love when Ally takes poetry from David [101:14] to God and then applies it to America [101:16] and to every human ever. Like, [101:18] obviously, this is poetry in the ancient [101:21] world. They had no clue how pregnancy [101:24] worked. But, yeah. Okay. Well, use this [101:26] as as the as the bedrock foundation for [101:29] why all abortion in America, even if it [101:32] even if it kills women, should be [101:33] outlawed. a lot from progressives and [101:35] this is not in this particular uh in [101:37] this particular article but the baby is [101:39] not a baby inside the womb because he or [101:41] she looks like a clump of cells or they [101:43] don't have you know a fully formed brain [101:45] yet or they don't have all of their [101:46] fingers and toes but the Bible says that [101:49] God can see our unformed form or [101:51] unformed body and that God cares about [101:53] it that he forms it that he knits it [101:55] together and that it has value and so [101:57] progressives really don't for me carry a [102:00] lot of moral weight in any of their [102:01] arguments when it comes to human rights [102:03] when They persistently believe that [102:05] babies inside the womb have no right to [102:06] legal protection against being [102:08] dismembered by forceps. Like, [102:09] >> by the way, that's not what happens in [102:11] the majority of abortions. Like a six an [102:15] abortion at 6 weeks, that doesn't [102:16] happen. Just letting you know. She's [102:18] using intentionally evocative language [102:20] to make it seem like every day a a fully [102:23] formed child that's in the womb is just [102:25] ripped apart and then like we flush it [102:26] down the toilet. That is not what is [102:28] happening. And again, if you want to [102:30] reduce the number of abortions, which by [102:32] the way, I'm in favor of, then let's get [102:34] women access to contraceptives so they [102:36] can choose when they want to get [102:37] pregnant. Let's get people affordable [102:39] healthcare access. Let's get people [102:40] livable wages so that so they don't feel [102:43] forced between a rock and a hard place [102:45] with an unintentional pregnancy. There [102:46] are ways to do this, but Ally doesn't [102:48] want any of that. Alli wants every [102:50] person in America to be absent for [102:52] before marriage, have no access to any [102:54] kind of abortion care, and we all live [102:56] happily ever after. The end. Because [102:58] that's America. That's God's will for [103:00] the country. That's God's moral law. I [103:02] >> am willing to hear you out a lot more. [103:03] Even if you're on the opposite side of [103:05] the aisle, like if you can just meet me [103:06] there, like if we can both just say, [103:08] "Okay, I think killing any innocent [103:10] person is wrong and should be illegal in [103:13] or outside of the womb, then I feel like [103:15] we at least have enough of a shared [103:17] moral basis where we can talk about the [103:19] rest of the stuff." But if [103:20] >> was Renee Nicole good innocent or was [103:22] she a martyr? Was Alex Prey innocent or [103:24] was he a martyr? Oh, no. He was an [103:26] agitator. He was an agitator. So he [103:28] deserved it. [103:32] I mean it when I tell you these people [103:34] are not serious. Like they have either [103:38] they have not thought through their [103:39] positions or they really have a very [103:41] selective view of who gets these [103:43] protections and who doesn't. [103:48] >> Agree on that. Then to me like your [103:49] cries for justice and human rights are [103:51] just laughable. And then of course [103:54] saying women aren't going to have have [103:56] rights. He's basically just talking [103:57] about abortion. Repealing the 19th [103:59] amendment, it's pretty fringe. There are [104:01] some people who believe in that. Uh [104:03] don't think that's something that's [104:04] going to be carried out any [104:06] >> Notice what she says. Even she has to [104:08] acknowledge that it's a belief in her [104:10] spaces, which it is. Look at Doug [104:12] Wilson. Look at Joe Riggnney. Look at [104:13] Dale Partridge. Look at uh there was a [104:16] guy at Turning Point USA two years ago [104:17] who I heard uh uh Stephen Jason Whitlock [104:20] said this. This is absolut my words. [104:24] This is the next big thing. After a [104:26] burger fell, women's rights, women's [104:28] voting, women's suffrage is on the [104:30] chopping block. I I bet within five [104:32] years, we see Ally start talking about [104:34] it more and start advocating for why it [104:36] should happen. Why we should go back to [104:37] a family vote. That's how they're going [104:39] to frame it. This is a family vote. Aka, [104:41] we're erasing women's autonomy and [104:44] women's ability to vote for who they [104:45] want because women are empathetic. [104:47] They're they're they're too governed by [104:49] their emotions. That's going to be the [104:50] logic. Take a snapshot of this. You [104:53] heard it here. Let's keep going [104:56] >> soon. Um, LGBTQ people will lose rights [104:58] to marry and adopt. And again, uh, this [105:01] is a very straightforward biblical [105:02] position that marriage was created by [105:04] God. It was designed by God, rooted in [105:06] creation, reiterated throughout [105:07] scripture, repeated by Jesus in Matthew [105:09] 19, representative of Christ in the [105:10] church and reflective of the gospel. [105:11] We've talked about those five Rs many [105:13] times. And if we believe that we are [105:15] supposed to carry the cause of the [105:17] fatherless, then that would apply to [105:18] those who are motherless, too. which [105:19] means that we are not going to purposely [105:21] manufacture motherlessness and [105:22] fatherlessness by supporting the legal [105:24] redefinition of marriage. [105:25] >> There you go. So, John's right on that. [105:27] John's right on that. That's a bunch of [105:29] hogwash. Look up my interview on the New [105:31] Evangelicals, why you don't want a [105:32] biblical marriage with Dr. Jennifer [105:34] Bird. I can't respond to all of this [105:35] here because we're I mean, this is a [105:37] long episode, but ultimately the Bible [105:39] is not univocal on marriage. God gave [105:41] David eight wives. It's there in the [105:43] text. Lay takes two wives in Genesis 4. [105:46] And if you believe, and I I pointed this [105:47] out to Ally, it seemed to go right over [105:49] her head. God bless her. But if you [105:51] believe that Adam and Eve were the first [105:53] two humans on the planet, and we all [105:55] descended from them, then this standard [105:58] of one man and one woman for life gets [106:01] real murky real quick from the very, [106:04] very beginning of the standard. [106:07] At some point, siblings are sleeping [106:09] with each other. And I really doubt, [106:11] especially given how commonly practiced [106:13] polygamy was in the ancient world, I [106:15] highly doubt they were all monogous. If [106:17] you take Adam and Eve as two literal [106:20] historical figures, which by the way, [106:21] really good scholarship suggests that's [106:23] not what's going on here. There's a much [106:25] deeper meaning. Again, can't get into [106:26] it, but they the words Adam and Eve [106:28] actually mean the human and life. That's [106:31] what their names mean when you translate [106:33] them. So there's something else going on [106:34] besides two historical people who are [106:36] sleeping with potentially their own kids [106:39] or their kids are sleeping with each [106:40] other to re to populate the entire [106:42] earth. [106:44] So again, there's just too many points [106:46] to there's too many ways to point out [106:48] that the idea of biblical marriage looks [106:50] nothing like what modern western [106:53] monogamous marriage looks like. Period. [106:55] Period. It just doesn't. [106:57] >> Through Leviticus 20, Romans 1, 1 [106:59] Corinthians 6 for the prohibitions on [107:01] homosexuality. Those of you who have [107:02] been listening to the show for any [107:03] amount of time, have watched us and [107:05] listened to us go through that many [107:06] times. Go back and listen to past [107:07] episodes. [107:08] >> But the funny thing about that is that [107:09] first Corinthians that chapter or that [107:11] that verse also cites the greedy. Ally [107:14] seems to love the greedy. Ally seems to [107:16] simp for the billionaire class. See [107:17] again selective selective there are you [107:20] can make such a firm case why a biblical [107:23] value would be that greed especially [107:26] financial greed that exploits others [107:28] should be outlawed in America. That's an [107:30] easy slam dunk case to make. She will [107:33] never make it because in her mind that's [107:35] communism and communism is bad. See, her [107:38] theology is always going to stop where [107:40] her political boundaries are. Every [107:42] single time. Every single time. [107:45] >> Are curious. He says people of color [107:47] will be excluded from the electoral [107:48] process. [107:50] >> Lie. Immigrants will be denied [107:51] opportunity and refuge. Um, also not [107:53] true. Just a reminder, [107:55] >> it's a lie. World Relief came out and [107:57] said that this administration is [107:58] targeting refugees who have legal status [108:01] here. She's just lying. She's straight [108:02] up lying to you. [108:04] >> Um that America has accepted more [108:06] refugees than any other country by far. [108:08] >> Trump cut that down significantly and is [108:12] putting most of those refugee [108:13] applications towards white Africaners. I [108:16] >> think that's a good thing. I want us to [108:17] prioritize Christian refugees from war [108:19] torn countries and I still want them to [108:21] be vetted and I still want there to be a [108:22] way when safe for them to go back to [108:24] their home country. But I do just want [108:26] to say that it is [108:27] >> her own nationalism even supersedes her [108:30] own allegiance to brothers and sisters [108:31] in Christ. Think about that for a [108:33] second. Think about that for a second. [108:35] And even then, she rather prioritized [108:37] Christians that she would deem that good [108:39] than non-Christian immigrants. I thought [108:41] that all people had the image of God in [108:43] them. Ally, I thought all people are [108:45] worthy of dignity and respect. Why are [108:46] you showing partiality? Isn't Ally now [108:49] showing partiality towards Christians [108:51] versus non-Christians? Hm. Is that [108:53] unbiblical in her mind? [108:55] >> Responsibility and the right of any [108:56] country to say this is how many refugees [108:59] we should take and no more. And for [109:01] people who say, "Oh, we should accept [109:02] all asylum seekers or all refugees." [109:04] Really, any people who oppose [109:06] immigration enforcement, I think it's a [109:08] really good idea to ask them some [109:10] questions. Go ahead. Like, is there any [109:12] level of enforcement? [109:13] >> Yes. [109:13] >> Of our immigration law that is not [109:15] Christian nationalist, that wouldn't be [109:17] fascist. Is there any limit to the [109:19] number of people that we should accept [109:21] or should we do we have an obligation in [109:23] your mind to accept every single person [109:26] from every country that is poorer than [109:27] the United States? [109:28] >> Let me just point out the the where her [109:30] Christian nationalism begins and where [109:32] that question kind of ends. Her question [109:34] is great. Yes, the answer is yes. But [109:36] when you say I'm all for prioritizing [109:39] Christian refugees, there's your [109:41] Christian nationalism coming into play. [109:43] And then when you say you want to send [109:44] them back to their home country, that's [109:46] your racism coming into play. Because I [109:48] don't think anyone, especially her [109:50] audience, has a white person from Canada [109:53] in their mind when they think about a [109:54] refugee. They think about someone with [109:56] dark skin from a quote unquote third [109:58] world country, a war torn country, [110:00] living in poverty, and that person [110:02] should be sent back to that country [110:04] because ultimately they're not welcome [110:05] here. Ultimately, [110:08] there it is. At any point do American [110:11] interests start to outweigh the [110:12] interests of people from Zambia? [110:15] >> At what point does that become not [110:16] Christian nationalists? Most of them [110:18] can't answer these questions because [110:19] they've never thought through it before. [110:22] >> But the fact of the matter is every [110:24] country has that right and [110:25] responsibility. It's common sense. And I [110:28] think it's important for us to remember [110:30] >> that [110:31] >> yes uh the American Somalian person is [110:34] our neighbor. We can love them and we [110:35] can care for them. But Lake and Riley is [110:37] also our neighbor. [110:38] >> Yes. And Molly Tibbitz is also our [110:40] neighbor. [110:40] >> Yep. [110:41] >> And Kate Steinley was also our neighbor. [110:43] >> And loving them would have meant making [110:46] sure that our immigration law is [110:49] enforced. Like we wouldn't be seeing all [110:50] of this chaos right now, this [110:52] unfortunate violence and this loss of [110:53] life if we had had common sense tough [110:55] immigration law and if we had been [110:58] enforcing it. [110:59] >> See how she does that? Right. By the [111:01] way, all those people who were killed by [111:03] undocumented immigrants are all those [111:04] immigrants are facing justice. are [111:06] currently going through our court [111:07] system. Rene Renee Nicole Good will [111:09] never face justice or um Renee Nicole [111:12] Good's killer will never face justice. [111:15] Alex Py's killers will probably never [111:17] face justice at least for a long time if [111:19] at all. And when the law or when the [111:22] cops or when police do face justice like [111:25] Der like Derek Schovin, people like Ally [111:27] and Charlie Kirk say that was an unjust [111:29] ruling. So George Floyd's murder doesn't [111:33] need any justice. But Lake and Ravies [111:36] does. How about all of them do? And by [111:38] the way, Lake and Ravi's family has [111:40] said, "Please don't politicize this." [111:41] And Ally routinely does that anyway. She [111:43] doesn't even care about what the family [111:45] wants as they honor and remember her [111:48] daughter. And she uses that to then [111:51] paint this broad brush like what she [111:54] accused the left of or progressive [111:56] Christians of doing to then scapegoat [111:58] entire communities. News flash, Ally. [112:01] The immigrants in Minnesota, the [112:03] Somalians of Minnesota are completely [112:05] separate and different and came through [112:07] a different process legally than [112:11] presumably the undocumented immigrant [112:12] who killed Lake Lake and Riley. But she [112:15] wants you to see them all as one thing. [112:17] It's just one pot. She doesn't show or [112:19] explain how complicated immigration law [112:22] is, how diverse it is, different ways [112:23] that you can get here, etc. And I also [112:26] want to point out that statistically [112:29] undocumented immigrants are half as [112:31] likely to commit crime as their [112:32] nativeorn counterparts. That's from the [112:34] KO Institute. Why isn't Alli waging war [112:37] on white men who are most likely to [112:39] commit mass shootings in this country? [112:41] Why isn't she saying that we have a [112:42] white man epidemic of mass shooting [112:44] violence? Because ultimately she can see [112:47] that not all white men are bad. But when [112:49] it comes to the immigration crisis, [112:51] suddenly we have to paint with a broad [112:52] brush that immigrants really aren't [112:54] great people. They're kind of ruining [112:56] the country. And as Christians, we have [112:58] an obligation to seek the good of the [113:00] city. [113:03] And to prioritize our country over [113:05] someone else's. That's the logic. That's [113:08] the framework. She's just talking about [113:10] whiteness. She's talking about a culture [113:12] that upholds whiteness and white [113:14] supremacy. This is why she will rarely, [113:17] if ever, talk about Nick Fuentes or [113:19] Patriot Front or any of those groups [113:21] that marched for Charlie Kirk when he [113:23] was murdered. This is why she won't talk [113:25] about the people yelling Jews will not [113:26] replace us because she doesn't care [113:28] about the far right that's advocating [113:30] for these positions. In her mind, right, [113:33] John Pavitz and Ben Kramer are much more [113:37] worthy of being talked about than Doug [113:39] Wilson who wants the 19th Amendment [113:41] overturned. [113:45] I would love to know your thoughts on [113:46] this video so far. Please leave a [113:47] comment. Please make sure you like this [113:48] video. Subscribe to the channel if you [113:50] want more of this. I always like your [113:52] feedback. It really helps. We are [113:53] getting there, friends. We're almost [113:54] there. [113:55] >> And I just, it's worth pointing out yet [113:57] again that I didn't see John Pavlovitz [113:59] or Ben Kramer or any of these people up [114:01] in arms when Joe Biden and especially [114:04] Barack Obama were doing the same things [114:06] >> because they were it wasn't any crazier [114:08] or it's not any crazier now. It wasn't [114:10] more humane then. They didn't use due [114:12] process. You can go back and listen to [114:13] last Wednesday's episode for some [114:15] examples on that. A lot of this is [114:16] manufactured outrage. And if you haven't [114:19] read my book, Toxic Empathy, I don't [114:21] even care if you buy it. [114:22] >> Borrow it from a friend. Go to the [114:23] library. Most libraries have it, [114:24] although it's usually checked out [114:26] because I really just at least want you [114:28] to read chapter 4 of this book, but this [114:30] will give you words and an understanding [114:31] for everything that is going on right [114:33] now. Of course, you can get it on Amazon [114:34] and all those good places. [114:35] >> If Ally really thinks that Obama was [114:37] doing what Trump was doing, then why [114:38] didn't she like Obama? You look back at [114:41] Alli's tweets, she was not a fan of [114:42] Obama. So, either Obama was doing what [114:45] Trump was doing, and for some reason, [114:47] you lied about not liking Obama, or you [114:49] ignored the good that he was doing in [114:51] your mind. or maybe Obama wasn't doing [114:54] what Trump was doing. Now, to be clear, [114:56] Obama did deport more immigrants, I [114:58] believe, over his eight-year um you [115:00] know, uh presidency than Trump did in [115:03] the in his first uh his first uh term. [115:07] But [115:08] what we weren't doing was invading and [115:11] knocking down doors with no warrants or [115:14] taking 5-year-olds with their dad and [115:16] sending them down to Texas with no due [115:18] process. That wasn't happening. We [115:21] weren't sending masked ICE agents with [115:23] guns into city streets. [115:26] That wasn't happening. Alli is lying. [115:29] And by the way, the left called Obama [115:31] the deorter chief. They were against [115:34] what Obama was doing. The ACLU sued the [115:37] Obama administration. So talk about [115:40] consistency. [115:41] Talk about consistency. But again, Ally [115:43] has a narrative. The left wants open [115:45] borders. So now Obama has to fit into [115:47] that even though that isn't the case. He [115:49] actually deported more people than Trump [115:51] without doing all this chaos that we're [115:53] seeing today and without calling [115:54] immigrants animals or pieces of garbage [115:58] or lying about Somalians in their [116:00] daycare centers. [116:01] >> But if you don't have the cash to buy it [116:02] right now, there are lots of places that [116:04] you can get it for free. And I just I [116:06] really want you to be equipped. This [116:07] book is my answer to the question, what [116:09] do I say when on almost every subject. [116:11] It's concise and it'll give you all of [116:12] the biblical and factual knowledge that [116:14] you need on these subjects. I'm really [116:15] passionate about it because I don't want [116:17] Christian women to be duped by toxic [116:18] empathy. I want us to be good thinkers [116:20] and I love talking about evangelical [116:21] women, but the fact of the matter is [116:22] it's not just evangelicals who are [116:24] struggling with this stuff and who are [116:25] getting confused on this stuff. [116:27] >> We got issues outside of the evangelical [116:29] camp and I want everyone to remember [116:30] that. So, listen. [116:31] >> Look, let me let me give you guys some [116:32] good news. Alice crashing out. Alice [116:34] crashing out. The fact that she did a [116:36] whole video on Ben Kramer and John [116:40] Pavlo, people who have much smaller [116:41] platforms than her nationally [116:44] tells you something. Women saw what [116:47] happened to Renee Nicole Good. They saw [116:49] what happened to Alex Party. Now, let's [116:50] be clear. Of course, when it happens to [116:52] white people, white people get upset. [116:54] There's been a much longer line of [116:56] non-white people who have been killed by [116:58] ICE. Okay? So, I acknowledge that. I'm [117:00] with you. I'm just making the point that [117:02] a lot of people saw those videos and [117:04] their eyes did not deceive them. So Ally [117:07] and people like Megan Basham have to go [117:09] into overdrive to spin this narrative [117:12] that you are giving into toxic empathy. [117:14] And they have to rip the Bible apart, [117:16] rip it to shreds to justify why the [117:18] brutal dehumanization of immigrants and [117:20] American citizens, including the white [117:22] ones, are being um uh brutalized by this [117:26] regime. They are working overtime. They [117:30] are absolutely crashing out in my [117:31] opinion. [117:32] >> That in just a second. Let me tell you [117:33] about our next sponsor. [117:34] >> How many sponsors? Must be nice. Someone [117:36] sponsor my show. [117:44] All right, here we go. [117:48] Okay, so I've been seeing a lot of [117:50] people criticize evangelical women for [117:52] how evangelical women are duped on all [117:55] of this stuff. And of course, I know [117:56] that. That's why I wrote this book. [117:58] That's even why in a lot of ways I wrote [118:00] my first book because I've been in this [118:01] evangelical world forever. I know [118:03] exactly how it looks. I know exactly how [118:04] it works. I know exactly why it's [118:06] affected effective. And I can say all of [118:08] this these critiques and disagreements [118:09] from a place of love because and a place [118:11] of optimism and hope because I really [118:13] feel like evangelical women with really [118:14] good theological training can do a [118:16] better job of seeing these messages in [118:17] the media push back against it with [118:19] logic and with good theology. [118:21] >> Ally has no theological degree at all. [118:26] Why should they listen to Ally? [118:30] Why? Good theology leads to human [118:32] flourishing. Alli's theology is leading [118:35] to death and chaos. [118:38] Um, but I'm seeing some people outside [118:39] of the evangelical women camp ask this [118:41] question and I would say no, no, no, no, [118:42] no, no, no. Okay, because yes, there are [118:45] evangelical women who are duped, but [118:47] evangelical women outside of that group [118:49] are the strongest on all of these issues [118:51] when it comes to female demographics in [118:52] the country. We're the strongest on [118:53] immigration. We're the strongest on [118:54] abortion. We're the strongest on [118:54] marriage. We're the strongest on gender. [118:56] Like we are the bull work of female [118:58] conservatism. So when I see my beloved [118:59] Catholic friends criticizing [119:02] evangelical, [119:03] >> they're not beloved. Ally does not [119:04] believe that Catholics are true [119:05] Christians. FYI. [119:06] >> Uhuh. Turn around. Look at your own [119:08] circle. Because our beloved Catholic [119:11] friends have a huge issue of [119:13] progressivism when it comes to abortion, [119:15] all these things, way more than the [119:16] evangelicals do. So I would love my [119:17] conservative Catholic friends to focus [119:19] on inside their camp because we need [119:20] Catholics to be super strong on life and [119:22] all of that. as [119:23] >> No, please notice again it's a one-way [119:26] street. Ally can critique whoever she [119:28] wants. Evangelicals can critique whoever [119:30] they want. They can even they can even [119:31] write laws barring people from certain [119:34] actions in their own private life. But [119:36] when it comes to, you know, [119:38] her critique or her receiving critique, [119:40] no, no, no. Don't guys, don't critique [119:42] me. Critique your own tribe, right? It's [119:44] it's a one-way street for white [119:46] evangelicals like Ally. will say much of [119:48] the church traditionally has been but we [119:49] got a big social justice problem inside [119:52] the Catholic church and I think that my [119:53] Catholic conservative friends would [119:55] agree with that. [119:56] >> The Catholic Church has been one of the [119:58] most social justiceoriented like [119:59] religious institutions for a long time [120:01] like throughout its history because it [120:03] has actually on that issue a pretty [120:04] solid theology. It understands the call [120:07] of Christ as Christians to be salt on [120:09] the earth and to advocate for issues [120:11] where the marginalized are taken care [120:13] of. Mother Teresa, right, gave her life [120:15] in service to this ideal. It it's it's [120:17] it's um you know, Ally is just kind of [120:21] showing her ignorance here, frankly. And [120:23] also showing how new her own theology [120:25] is. News flash, guys, Protestant [120:27] Calvinism, as we understand it today, is [120:29] a pretty new iteration of Christianity. [120:32] >> For example, Cardinal Joseph Tobin of [120:34] Newark, New Jersey. He urges Congress to [120:36] defund ICE calls it a lawless [120:38] organization. He urged Congress to vote [120:41] against renewing funding for such a [120:42] lawless organization. Um, we mourn for a [120:45] world, a country that allows 5-year-olds [120:46] to be legally kidnapped and protesters [120:48] to be slaughtered. Okay, two lies. Two [120:50] lies right there. [120:51] >> 5-year-old was not kidnapped and Alex [120:53] Prey and Renee Good were not protesters. [120:54] Like, you could [120:55] >> Okay, this is this here it is, guys. [120:58] I've been waiting for a very clear case [121:00] of Ally blatantly lying to her audience. [121:03] I covered the story of Liam a few uh [121:05] days ago on this channel. I'm not going [121:07] to play the clips. I'm going to just [121:08] tell you that the school officials saw [121:12] what happened. The family's lawyer has [121:16] stated that Liam and his father Andre [121:18] have legal asylum cases. They are going [121:20] through the system correctly. And the [121:23] schools officials will tell you that [121:25] they've seen four different students [121:26] taken by ICE. And the tactic they use is [121:29] they will put they will ask someone to [121:31] open the door just to crack. When the [121:34] door is open to crack, they will barge [121:35] through it to take more people. ICE [121:38] agents walked Liam up to the front door [121:40] of his home and again a school official [121:42] witnessed this because she offered to [121:44] take the child. ICE said no. They walked [121:47] Liam up to his door, tried to get the uh [121:50] his pregnant mom to open it. Her husband [121:53] Andre said don't open the door because [121:55] of what ICE does barging into people's [121:58] houses once they give a little bit of [121:59] leeway. And so then the agents took Liam [122:03] with his father down to Texas where Liam [122:06] got really sick. Now thankfully Liam is [122:09] back. But the Trump administration said [122:11] they are going to appeal the judge's [122:13] ruling. And by the way the judge's [122:15] ruling is a scathing. It is a brutal [122:19] ruling. I recommend looking it up. It is [122:22] so he tear I think it's Yeah. He tears [122:25] the administration a new one for [122:27] disregarding the law, disregarding the [122:29] Fourth Amendment, disregarding all kinds [122:31] of things that Ally says apparently this [122:33] administration is doing, bringing order [122:35] and stuff on Earth or uh to America. [122:38] Ally is blatantly lying about the story [122:42] of Little Liam. Hard freaking stop. And [122:46] Renee Nicole Good, you're right. Ally [122:48] was not a protester. She was a mom who [122:51] just dropped her son off at school and [122:53] was actually waving on vehicles to pass [122:55] her when Ice Asian stopped their truck, [122:58] ordered her to get the f out of the [123:00] vehicle with absolutely no reason. And [123:03] she turned the wheel, tried to get away. [123:05] We have all kinds of angles covering [123:07] this. And the ICE agent, Agent Ross, [123:10] shot her three times, point blank range, [123:12] and she died. Alex Prey was legally [123:16] filming ICE. And by the way, he was a [123:19] protester, which is his legal right to [123:22] do. Protesters have legal rights to [123:25] protest. And Freddy was doing it [123:27] peacefully until ICE agents pushed a [123:30] woman near him, pepper- sprrayed him, [123:32] and then shot him at point blank range. [123:34] Ali Stucky is lying to you. She is [123:37] lying. She and her world, like like [123:40] evangelicalism, have created their own [123:43] bubble of reality, [123:45] and she is straight up lying to you. [123:47] This is the same person who will tell [123:48] you that the earth was formed in six [123:50] literal days because of what Genesis 1 [123:53] and 2 say. Even though Genesis 1 and 2 [123:55] are different creation accounts that [123:57] contradict each other. Please do not [124:00] trust this person's biblical [124:02] interpretation [124:04] at all. At all. It's horrific. It's it's [124:06] embarrassingly dumb. [124:08] >> Oppose how they died. But they were not [124:10] protesters. They were agitating. They [124:11] were impeding law enforcement [124:12] operations. And so that is toxic [124:14] empathy. that is using a lie to advance [124:17] a nefarious cause by pulling on your [124:19] heartstrings. We've got Cardinal Poland. [124:22] Violence in Minneapolis is unacceptable, [124:24] which of course I agree with, but he [124:26] says the position of the Holy Sea is [124:27] always to avoid any kind of violence [124:28] obviously and therefore we can not [124:30] accept episodes of this kind. That is [124:32] our position as you know. He's talking [124:34] about Alex Py's death. And of course, in [124:36] general, I agree. I I don't like [124:38] violence. I would love for no one to [124:40] ever die at the hands of the police. Um, [124:43] however, Romans 13, the state does not [124:46] bear the sword in vain. So, even [124:48] >> unless you're Joe Biden, which she [124:49] already said, she already said Joe Biden [124:51] was on the side of evil. And remember, [124:52] Ben Kramer made this point, right? [124:54] Christian nationalism looks like Jesus [124:56] on the cross and saying he should have [124:57] just followed the law. Here's here it [125:00] is. Ally doing that very thing. [125:01] >> Pretty case aside, just in general, we [125:04] can't actually be against all forms of [125:05] violence and agree with what the Bible [125:07] says about how the state designed by God [125:09] carries out punishment against the [125:10] wrongdoer. You'll remember we talked [125:12] about it a few months ago. Pope Leo, the [125:14] new pope, he said this on immigration. [125:16] He said, uh, someone who says, "I'm [125:17] against abortion, but is in favor of the [125:19] death penalty, is not really pro-life." [125:22] Pope Leo, I would love to have you on [125:24] the show and discuss this because this [125:26] is that whole nicer than God phenomenon [125:28] that Charlie Kirk and I talked about the [125:29] last time we talked face to face on his [125:31] show is that so many faith leaders [125:33] believe that they are nicer than God. [125:34] Genesis 9:6 instituted the death penalty [125:37] because man is made in God's image. [125:39] That's still true today. No, it's not. [125:41] See how she just see how she just picks? [125:43] Wait, so in Genesis 4 when lame takes [125:46] two wives, that doesn't matter regarding [125:48] marriage. But in Genesis 9:6, when the [125:51] death penalty takes place, that's [125:53] somehow still relevant to today. When we [125:55] have Jesus who specifically preached [125:58] nonviolence and who was killed by state [126:01] sanctioned violence and treated as a [126:04] non-citizen and humiliated right on a [126:07] cross which we can argue he did [126:09] willingly but he still did ally [126:13] atrocious theology atrocious. [126:15] >> He says the pope says and someone who [126:17] says I'm against abortion but I'm in [126:18] agreement with the inhuman maybe or [126:20] inhumane treatment of immigrants in the [126:22] United States. I don't know if that's [126:24] pro-life. Okay, sure. Well, a couple [126:27] things. I don't like expanding pro-life [126:28] beyond abortion because then it just [126:30] means nothing. If [126:31] >> that's not true, [126:31] >> being pro-life is also, you know, being [126:33] for fighting for climate change and open [126:35] borders and about immigrants, then it [126:36] just completely distills it and it's not [126:39] as potent as when we are fighting [126:40] against the slaughter of babies inside [126:41] the womb. But I if if life is life, [126:44] Ally, if if if a baby in the womb is [126:47] equal to a human life, why would [126:49] pro-life not expand to humans outside [126:51] the womb? She kind of just told the [126:53] quiet part out loud. The pro-life [126:54] movement only cares about their [126:57] understanding of what's happening in the [126:58] womb and everyone else be damned. If [127:02] you're a kid in Gaza, too bad, so sad. [127:04] We're gonna rain some bombs on you [127:05] because God told us to because we have [127:07] to protect Israel at all costs. It's a [127:09] selective prolife ethic. And by the way, [127:13] when is it ever okay in Alli's world, [127:16] right? If murder is wrong, why is it [127:18] okay to murder people? By the state? [127:21] Since when? She would say, well, it's [127:23] not murder, it's justice. Really? By [127:25] whose standards? By God's standards. Oh, [127:27] really? Which chapter? Which verse? [127:29] Genesis 9:6. Okay. Well, and again, you [127:31] get back in the same circular argument, [127:32] right? when you point other ver uh when [127:34] you point out other verses in Genesis or [127:36] in in 1 and 2 Samuel, those verses don't [127:39] apply because they don't prop they don't [127:41] push my understanding of the world. So [127:43] those are just irrelevant, [127:45] right? Or I'll or I'll I'll appeal to [127:47] Jesus on marriage, but I won't appeal to [127:49] Jesus on the death penalty. It is such [127:52] selective picking and choosing that just [127:55] so happens it just so happens to always [127:58] reinforce the right-wing MAGA talking [128:00] point. What a coincidence that the God [128:02] of all things is totally in locks up [128:05] with the MAGA agenda. And by the way, I [128:09] do believe that God is as nice as Jesus. [128:13] And Jesus was really nice to the [128:14] marginalized and really not that nice to [128:17] the religious hypocrites and leaders. In [128:19] fact, he even committed some property [128:20] violence in the temple. So, there's [128:23] that. [128:23] >> It's lame. We see this in [128:24] evangelicalism, too. This like womb tomb [128:26] pro-life. you have to you're like [128:28] against abortion personally but then [128:29] also you're for welfare and that's also [128:32] pro-life but also I'd want to know the [128:33] example what's the inhumane treatment of [128:35] immigrants in the United States and are [128:37] you conflating immigrants and illegal [128:39] immigrants I say clarity is a gift this [128:41] is completely unclear u morally [128:43] factually and so I actually don't think [128:45] um it is helpful and by the way [128:47] deporting people and slaughtering people [128:49] inside the womb they are not morally on [128:51] the same ground but I think this is why [128:52] I see a lot of my Catholic friends [128:55] struggling so much to give not all, not [128:58] all, but to give a morally clear stance [129:00] on something like immigration. I see [129:02] like a lot of strength and clarity when [129:03] it comes to abortion in a lot of cases, [129:05] but when it comes to things like [129:06] justice, when it comes to things like [129:07] crime and immigration, I see a lot of [129:08] confusion and lack of clarity from that [129:10] group. And I think it's because the [129:12] leadership at the top is like really [129:13] unclear about what the Bible has to say [129:15] about those things. And just remember, [129:16] we are not nicer than God. And borders [129:19] and governments and laws and justice [129:21] were all God's idea. Remember, God is a [129:23] God of mercy, but he also is a God of [129:26] order. And we [129:27] >> um Okay, a couple things here. First [129:28] off, um I find it funny that that Alli [129:31] is trying to muddy the waters when the [129:32] Pope's statement is actually [129:33] emphatically clear. It's it's fair to [129:35] clear what he's saying. Number two, [129:36] though, the Catholic Church does not [129:38] have the same view of the Bible than [129:41] than Protestants do largely or even, you [129:43] know, people like Ally because [129:45] essentially, I'm going to oversimplify [129:46] it. The Catholic Church believes that [129:48] the church interprets the Bible. And [129:50] Alli is gonna say that the Bible [129:51] dictates what the church believes. Okay. [129:54] Um, obviously no system is perfect. We [129:56] can argue that in the weeds, but like [129:58] the Pope doesn't give a about what [129:59] Ally thinks about the Bible. And [130:01] frankly, the Catholic Bible has [130:02] different books than it anyway. [130:05] It's a waste of time. It's just so [130:07] annoying to watch Ally talk so smugly [130:09] about something that she just doesn't [130:10] understand at all or has a very [130:12] evangelical framework of understanding [130:14] and therefore doesn't understand it. I [130:16] was taught that Catholics are just a [130:18] bunch of idiots essentially who really [130:20] aren't saved who pray to false gods like [130:23] Mary and believe in works in a [130:24] worksbased salvation. It turned out [130:26] that's not true and there's actually a [130:28] quite robust theology of praying to [130:30] saints that I was ever introduced to. [130:33] They also follow the church calendar. [130:35] Right? Same thing with any other uh [130:37] tradition. I was taught that that [130:38] Muslims are are evil people and Islam is [130:41] inherently violent until I met actual [130:43] Muslims and learned about about the the [130:45] diversity and the tradition just like in [130:47] Christianity. But through the [130:48] evangelical framework, the gatekeepers [130:50] like Ally have to tell the audience how [130:53] to see the world. Don't read the primary [130:55] sources for yourself. Don't read the [130:57] books on Christian nationalism, guys. [130:59] Don't read these. Just listen to Alli's [131:01] horrific ass backwards take on Christian [131:04] nationalism and just believe that she's [131:06] giving you truth. [131:07] >> Agents of mercy, but also agents of m [131:09] order because it's good for our [131:12] neighbors. All right, we got one final [131:13] thing to talk about, but I have to tell [131:15] you my last sponsor for the day. [131:16] >> All right, last one. We're almost there, [131:17] friends. We are making it. So many [131:19] sponsors. I would love to have this many [131:21] sponsors and make some real money. [131:23] >> Time critiquing Catholic leaders. Every [131:25] time I do that, I am always like, why do [131:26] you People are like, why do you hate [131:27] Catholics? Why are you attacking [131:29] Catholics? No, I I attack my own camp a [131:31] lot more. I just wanted it to be noted [131:33] that y'all have some work to do within [131:35] your camp as well. So, we're back. We're [131:37] back to the evangelical church now. And [131:38] I just wanted to end on addressing this [131:40] video that has been going around of this [131:42] Minnesota pastor that is addressing this [131:43] was actually uh before all of this stuff [131:45] happened with Renee Good and Alex Prey. [131:47] It was after all of the widespread fraud [131:50] had been uncovered by Nick Shirley. And [131:53] this was his response to that, which I [131:54] just think is a strange thing to say in [131:57] light of the revelation that hardworking [131:59] taxpayers have had their money stolen [132:01] from them. [132:01] >> True. [132:02] >> By newcomers that are using it to enrich [132:04] themselves in Democrat politicians. Stop [132:06] five. [132:06] >> I want you to know that there was [132:08] horrible fraud in the state of [132:10] Minnesota. But I want you also to know [132:13] that there are 100,000 Somali in our [132:16] city. And the 100,000 Somali in our city [132:20] are not like the few that took advantage [132:23] of the system and performed fraud. [132:25] There's 250,000 Latinos in our city. And [132:29] when we have a president that is [132:31] actually villainizing a whole people [132:33] group, it is anti- good. It's [132:35] anti-gosspel. And it's anti- new [132:37] covenant. [132:38] >> Yep. [132:39] >> Okay. I don't think that this is the [132:41] clearest and best response to the [132:43] revelations uh that we saw after [132:45] >> ally. Who gives a what you think? [132:47] Like, I'm so sick of her like trying to [132:50] be this like authoritative voice about [132:53] what other people should or shouldn't [132:54] think regarding their spirituality when [132:56] you have some of the worst theology I've [132:58] ever seen in my lifetime. And that is [133:00] saying something. [133:02] >> This investigation, this is a very [133:04] wishy-washy response to that. Yes, this [133:06] happened over here. No condemnation of [133:08] it, by the way. No explanation for why [133:09] it was wrong. No sympathy for the people [133:11] who have been trying to make ends meet [133:13] and have realized that they've been [133:14] forking over money not to make their own [133:16] roads better probably, but to enrich [133:18] these fraudsters. [133:20] >> Okay, we need to pause right here. She's [133:21] so such a such a liar. There was [133:23] widespread fraud based on the COVID [133:26] pandemic [133:28] that was a food bank fraud where a white [133:30] woman was the key architect, but many [133:33] Somali were also part of it. It's a very [133:34] high percentage. I think maybe 80% of [133:36] the of the defendants were Somalian. [133:38] That is not the same thing as Nick [133:40] Shirley's BS expose on the Somali [133:43] daycare fraud. They are separate things. [133:45] And as we know, there is no widespread [133:48] fraud of these daycare centers. They [133:50] have been proven. There have been [133:51] articles written. The government has [133:53] shown the receipts. That doesn't mean [133:55] that there wasn't a humongous fraud case [133:57] regarding CO. In fact, one of the [133:58] biggest in Minnesota state history. A [134:00] major problem. But like this pastor [134:04] said, you don't get to scapegoat or [134:06] villainize or demonize an entire people [134:09] group based on the actions of a few, [134:11] right? Isn't that the logic? Now, I want [134:13] to Many of you might say, "Well, Tim, [134:16] you do that. You do that. You do that to [134:17] evangelicals." I'm talking about how [134:18] evangelicals vote. I'm not saying every [134:21] evangelical, right, is a bad racist [134:24] inherently inherently racist person. I'm [134:26] saying how they vote as a group. The [134:29] data shows that 80% of them vote for a [134:31] man who assaults women, a man who lies [134:33] through his teeth. And they believe, [134:34] many of them, that God has given this [134:38] mandate for them to rule over the [134:40] nation. That's a commonly held belief in [134:42] white evangelicalism with data behind [134:44] it. Look up P R I. So, I'm not just I'm [134:47] not I'm not just um applying broad [134:50] strokes to people with no data or [134:52] reasoning behind it, okay? But when it [134:55] comes to Somalians or I'm sorry, Somali [134:58] immigrants or to Mexican immigrants, [135:00] right, suddenly Lake and Riley is proof [135:02] of why immigrants are bad. Suddenly the [135:05] the daycare fraud story is why Somali [135:08] are inherently bad people. And our [135:10] president does demonize them. He does [135:12] call them not nice names. So I I don't [135:16] know why Alvis is all of a sudden [135:17] playing dumb. This isn't a good [135:19] response. Really? Really not a good [135:21] response to critique Empire. Hm. [135:23] >> No expression of compassion for that [135:25] immediate pivot over here to say, "But [135:27] all of these people are actually who we [135:29] should focus on." Also, I haven't heard [135:30] Trump say that every single immigrant or [135:32] every single Somalian, every single [135:34] Latino person is ridiculous bad or is a [135:37] part of this. [135:37] >> They're not sending our their best. [135:39] They're sending their, you know, our [135:40] word. They're animals. Immigrants are [135:42] poisoning the blood of society. [135:45] The Haitians are eating the cats and [135:47] dogs. Give me a break, Ally. It's okay [135:50] for us to just say that fraud is wrong. [135:52] It's wrong and illegal immigration is [135:55] wrong and that we should be putting the [135:57] welfare of our city first. And so this [135:59] was the same kind of thing, the same [136:01] kind of thing we saw in 2020. This, [136:03] >> by the way, the Somali folks are part of [136:06] the city of Minneapolis. Notice how Ally [136:09] still uses that line of logic for this [136:12] piece. What does that tell you? She [136:14] doesn't see them as actually residents [136:16] of the city that they inhabit. They're [136:18] not from here. They're not true [136:20] Americans. They're not truly welcome [136:22] here. We have to seek the good of our [136:24] city against this people group. That's [136:26] how the logic works. That's how it [136:28] works. And I think she's just really [136:30] exposing what she really believes, [136:32] right? That people who are not like her [136:35] are not worthy of being part of a city [136:37] and seeking the welfare of that city. [136:39] Despite if we're again if we're going to [136:41] use Ali's logic, the Israelites [136:42] oftentimes being part of bigger empires, [136:45] being absorbed by bigger empires and [136:47] trying to find their place in that [136:49] empire. Weakness, this moral ambiguity [136:53] and the lack of courage and clarity from [136:55] pastors to just be able to call sin sin. [136:59] And maybe if this had been a little bit [137:00] more even-handed, like I I would have [137:02] been okay with that. There are things [137:04] that he said in there in principle that [137:05] I don't disagree with, but I am so tired [137:08] of pastors and influencers and [137:10] Christians allowing the liberal media [137:13] exclusively to dictate their outrage. [137:16] All of these people, as we've talked [137:17] about, who never talk about politics, [137:19] who never weigh into stuff like this, [137:20] the only time that they start talking [137:22] about it is when liberal influencers and [137:24] the liberal media and their dem Democrat [137:25] friends tell them they should. Like, [137:27] there was not a campaign to get people [137:29] to talk about Trump almost being [137:31] assassinated. But anytime there is [137:33] something that makes Democrats mad, you [137:35] get the same people who say that they're [137:37] not political speaking up in such a [137:39] morally ambiguous way that is so not [137:42] helpful. We need pastors right now who [137:44] are just clear. I'm not asking you to be [137:46] a newscaster. I'm not asking you to be [137:49] uh, you know, a political commentator. I [137:51] don't think a pastor has to go up every [137:53] Sunday and use the pullpit to talk about [137:55] the news of the week. That's not your [137:57] responsibility. Your responsibility is [137:58] to shepherd your flock by faithfully [138:00] executing the word of God. Well, that is [138:03] according to politics at times. You [138:06] can't really preach the Bible without [138:07] talking the immigrant, you know, uh [138:09] that's a pretty biblical idea. [138:11] Condemning the rich, that's a biblical [138:13] idea. But no, that's not what we're [138:14] talking about here. We're talking about [138:15] upholding MAGA [138:17] >> abortion, for example, or gender or [138:19] marriage. And the theological has become [138:20] political and so pastors have to weigh [138:22] into that. But when you are doing so, [138:24] make sure you're doing so because the [138:25] word of God demands it. Not [138:26] >> the the word of God never talks about [138:28] trans people. News flash alley. Like [138:30] you're picking on such a fringe [138:32] situation that doesn't affect you at [138:33] all. That's intentional though. And [138:35] again, another token feature of white [138:38] Christian nationalism. Scapegoat the [138:40] marginalized. Scape the minority. Make [138:42] them responsible for America's problems. [138:45] Don't look at the billionaire class. [138:47] Don't look at the rich and powerful. [138:48] Look at the trans person trying to get [138:50] healthcare. They're the reason America's [138:52] broken. [138:52] >> Because liberals demand it. So, don't [138:55] follow the direction and the example of [138:58] this pastor or even worse, Ben Kramer or [139:00] John Pavlovitz. Um, these people at the [139:04] very best are confused, at the very [139:06] worst are purposely leading the flock [139:08] astray. All right, I hope that gave you [139:10] >> All right, we'll stop there. We made it, [139:11] friends. Thank you for tuning in. I [139:12] really appreciate that. I I I I've said [139:15] a lot. I know it's almost two and a half [139:16] hours. It's a long one, but look, I I [139:19] I'm not sure how much clearer it can be. [139:20] Alli uh talks about how fraud is wrong, [139:23] but then doesn't talk about how Trump [139:25] has been griffing the American people [139:26] while in office. Trump is currently [139:28] suing the IRS, that's taxpayer money, [139:30] for $10 billion. Trump's businesses are [139:33] full of fraud. Trump was found convicted [139:35] on forging checks, convicted felon, 34 [139:38] felonies. That doesn't matter. Doesn't [139:40] matter. It just doesn't matter to Ally. [139:44] That's the issue I have with Ally. She's [139:46] not honest. She's incredibly one-sided. [139:50] She talks in a really nice sweet [139:51] cadence. So her words sound like they're [139:54] really sweet, but they have utter poison [139:56] underneath of them. And every, not [139:58] every, a lot of what she says is frankly [140:00] just a projection of what she is. [140:04] She is one-sided. She is biased. She [140:06] doesn't understand uh the Bible unless [140:10] she pillages it to defend her MAGA [140:12] talking points. She doesn't understand [140:14] Christian nationalism. She doesn't [140:15] understand the difference between being [140:16] a Christian and a Christian nationalist. [140:18] And there's a difference. Russell Moore [140:20] is a conservative evangelical. He's not [140:22] a Christian nationalist. There's reasons [140:24] for that. Again, there are books written [140:26] that anyone can read about the history [140:27] of this country or about Christian [140:29] nationalism, etc. [140:32] Anyway, okay, friends, I really [140:33] appreciate you being here. It means the [140:34] world. Let me know what you think about [140:35] this video. If you made it this far, [140:36] thank you so much. It means a lot. And I [140:39] will talk to you all later on. See you.