Anxiety and Uncertainty With Dr. Courtney Tolinski  ## Metadata - Author: [[Syntax - Tasty Web Development Treats]] - Full Title: Anxiety and Uncertainty With Dr. Courtney Tolinski - Category: #podcasts - URL: https://share.snipd.com/episode/ee1bff44-2099-49bc-943a-55c7bb8860c5 ## Document Notes ## Highlights - **Defining Clinical Anxiety** - Clinical anxiety is excessive worry or apprehension that is hard to control and affects daily life. - Physical symptoms include restlessness, fatigue, difficulty concentrating, irritability, muscle tension, and sleep problems. Transcript: Dr. Courtney Tolinski Yeah, so I feel like most people have an understanding kind of what anxiety is, but clinically it's different than, you know, just having general stress or worry about something. So clinical anxiety is like excessive worry or apprehension. So you're worrying about something pretty much every day. You know, it's hard for you to control it. So people will tell you to stop or you're trying to stop yourself or distract yourself and your brain just comes back to the worry, right? And it ends up manifesting itself into things like feeling restless or like kind of on edge, feeling really tired or like overly fatigued, a hard time concentrating on things or like Focusing, being irritable, right? Like quick to snap or like short tempered, feeling like the physical effects of stress. So like muscle tension and a lot of people get it in like their shoulders or their neck. But just in general, you feel like really stiff and tight. And then it's hard for you to sleep because you're like tossing and turning and thinking about whatever it is that you're stressed out about. To be diagnosed with like a generalized anxiety disorder, which is what I think most people struggle with when we're talking about anxiety. You have to have had these like feelings and symptoms, right, that I just talked about for at least six months. So a while, right? And usually it's something that you've dealt with when you were younger. You can kind of think back to different things that like stress you out or having that like feeling of a pit in your stomach, you know, or like trying to avoid things or just feeling like Excessive dread about something. So you can think about that, those moments in your childhood, but usually it doesn't come out full force until you're like a teenager or a young adult. ([Time 0:04:38](https://share.snipd.com/snip/37ca028e-3a8b-4baa-a53d-18ef8af2b2ac)) - **Sunday Scaries Example** - Wes Boss discusses experiencing "Sunday scaries" related to schoolwork and tests. - Now that he has a different job, he doesn't experience those feelings anymore. Transcript: Scott Tolinski Yeah. And is that like, me and Scott talked about the Sunday scaries or the like, yeah, yes. That like the homework feeling I used to have, like we were talking about how like I would always just be like, I don't want to go to school tomorrow because it's I have all this homework And all these tests coming up. And now that I get to goof around on the computer all day and do fun stuff, I don't have that anymore. So like, is is that feeling that everybody has? Is that like anxiety in everybody? Or is that just because you don't want to do some things? Is there a difference between the two things? Dr. Courtney Tolinski Yeah, that's a good question. I think it depends. It always comes back to like how much it's affecting you. So I think everyone kind of dreads Monday because it is it's that shift from like play to work. Right. And that's not as fun, even if you love your job. Like I really love my job, but I get the Sunday scaries weekly. Wes Bos Oh, yeah. Dr. Courtney Tolinski But if it's affecting you, we're like you can't sleep or you're thinking about it all day Sunday and you have those things that I talked about, like it's hard for you to concentrate, you're Irritable, you feel really tight and stressed inside, then that's probably more clinical anxiety. ([Time 0:06:44](https://share.snipd.com/snip/68aa72e6-0e56-485b-9c89-a6043ae16cdd)) - **Varied Anxiety Manifestations** - Anxiety manifests in various physical symptoms, like increased heartbeat and muscle tension. - Different types of anxiety include phobias, OCD, panic disorder, separation anxiety, and social anxiety. Transcript: Wes Bos You mentioned like a little bit of like the physical symptoms, you know, like the shoulder tightness and stuff. Is that something that everybody experiences the same way? Or are there different physical symptoms that people might experience? And like what kind of like long term detriments, I guess, come from those physical symptoms? Dr. Courtney Tolinski Yeah, that's a good question. Those are just like examples of symptoms. I can't recall in the DSM, like how many you need to have, but to be diagnosed clinically, you often need to have like a certain number, like it might be like three of the five that I mentioned Or three of the six. You know, like increased heartbeat. And there's a lot of different types of anxiety too that we didn't talk about. Like a lot of people have phobias about certain things. OCD is a type of anxiety. Some people have panic disorder, which you can think about as like panic attacks that are frequently occurring. Or for young kids, you see like separation anxiety where they don't want to like be apart from their parent because they're worried about like harm happening to them while they're away. Or social anxiety, right, which a lot of us struggle with, too. It's like a fear of embarrassing yourself or saying something stupid in front of other people and then, you know, feeling that shame. So like performance based or just being in like social settings. So there's lots of different ways that anxiety can like manifest itself, both like internally and then like in terms of its clinical presentation. I ([Time 0:08:58](https://share.snipd.com/snip/00fe9729-7b4a-429d-8f0c-bf474ba339aa)) - **Trauma and Anxiety** - Dr. Courtney Tolinski experienced car accidents, including one with her baby, which caused trauma and anxiety. - Scott Tolinski experienced a health scare that intensified his pre-existing health anxiety. Transcript: Dr. Courtney Tolinski Those are the two main ones. But experience can be anything, like environment. So for a lot of people, they have some sort of trauma that happens to them in life. For example, I've been in a number of car accidents where I've been rear ended. And one time, our baby was in the car with me. And that was a pretty significant trauma for me. Wes Bos And another time you were pregnant. Dr. Courtney Tolinski So another time. Yeah. Yeah. So I've had some bad luck with that, you know, but those are like traumas that, you know, everyone can kind of relate to, but there are obviously more serious traumas that happen too. So sometimes like a significant trauma can trigger anxiety. You know, I've talked to other women who've had like really serious like labor and delivery experiences that have caused anxiety for them, you know, so just like things that happen In life can lead to anxiety. Wes Bos Yeah, I have a personal experience with that. Well, if you've been listening to this podcast for a long time, you'll know that near the start of the podcast, I like told this wild story about going to the, it was Zeit Day at the time, But now Vercel. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I went to that conference. And after giving my talk, which went really well that night, I had like a weird thumb thing where my thumb grew super large and turned bright red. And the next morning, I had a big red line streak going up my arm. Well, it turns out there was like a lymphangitis, which is a super scary health thing that you could die in like 48 hours less than that, you know, from. So I had to like, I like fainted in a cab and I had like this really traumatic health experience. And like, ever since then, I could be getting like a cut and all I will think, holy cow, this cut is going to be the end of me. Like it is, it is like completely ruined my ability to be confident that my body will heal anything at this point. And so like that is a like a very real piece of trauma that's like affected my life from that point forward now. Dr. Courtney Tolinski Right. Exactly. Yeah. But you didn't have that trauma per se. Wes Bos But I did. Before then. I did have a bit of health anxiety. Dr. Courtney Tolinski You did. Right. But it exacerbated it. Right. So you had both the genes. Yeah. That were there. And then the environmental experience. Double dose. Yeah. Right. But that's what happens. Usually you have that predisposition and then some sort of life event happens that like exacerbates the symptoms or turns it on. And for a lot of people, like the pandemic was a big one. ([Time 0:12:48](https://share.snipd.com/snip/dc35742d-ed1a-4310-bf2f-c1397525da43)) - **Recognizing Problematic Anxiety** - Recognize anxiety as a problem when it significantly impairs daily functioning, like avoiding social events or impacting work productivity. - Seek support if anxiety affects sleep or causes persistent worry and dread. Transcript: Wes Bos So, OK, so I guess people might be out there and they might say, oh, you know, I recognize some of these things in myself, but I don't necessarily recognize it being a problem. Like, what would you say that it goes from it's a thing in life that I'm dealing with to a thing in life that is a problem that I need to do something about? Dr. Courtney Tolinski Yeah. Yeah, that's tough because I think a lot of people do have just kind of anxiety in their day to day. I think we all worry about stuff, right? That's pretty normal. But when anxiety becomes a problem, it's like I said, when it's like really affecting your functioning, right? So if you're finding yourself like avoiding parties or like not wanting to text someone back because you're worried about like how you're going to phrase something, right? Or that you'll say something embarrassing and, you know, therefore you don't want to go to a party, right? That's a problem. Same with work. If you're working and you're like thinking about whatever it is that's stressing you out. And because of that, your productivity has gone down, right? That's more of a functional problem. If you're finding like you can't get sleep because you're so wound up at night and you're just tossing and turning and it's happening, you know, for weeks on end, that's a problem, right? So it's to what degree is it affecting you in your day to day? And how much can you like, turn it off versus like, you know, it just comes up every once in a while, right? Because like I said, we all have things we worry about, right? Life is just kind of inherently stressful. But if it's like affecting your ability to like go about your day, then that's when you might want to seek some more support. If ([Time 0:17:20](https://share.snipd.com/snip/e2d6486a-aa84-4297-af46-a662561431aa)) - **Managing Anxiety** - Address anxiety by seeking therapy, journaling, practicing mindfulness (meditation, yoga), and aerobic exercise. - Consider medication like SSRIs or supplements like omega-3s and magnesium after trying other methods. Transcript: Dr. Courtney Tolinski What did you say? Eight shots? Wes Bos Oh, like. I'm not. These aren't things that I'm actually doing. Scott Tolinski Eight shots is where Scott arrives. I've partied with him before I arrived. Yeah. Dr. Courtney Tolinski Okay. Yeah. So things that you can do, right? Obviously therapy. That's a big one. I love therapy. I think it's great. And it's really helpful, especially for anxiety. Because a lot of times you don't know like what those triggers are. And we talked about like childhood trauma and things like that. And that's a lot to like unpack on your own. Right. So being able to talk to someone who's trained and knows like what questions to ask and how to help you like figure out what those underlying traumas or like, you know, kind of root cycles Are for you. That's really helpful. So if you're looking for therapy, I know there's a lot of great like apps and things like that where you can do therapy with text. And I know it's been helpful for people, but I recommend psychologytoday.com. I think they have one in Canada too. Dot com might be the American one. Wes Bos Usually.ca, right? Dr. Courtney Tolinski Is psychology.ca a thing? I don't know. Probably. Scott Tolinski Let's see here. Psychology Today. Wes Bos It would be psychology, psychology, GA. Scott Tolinski Psychology with a U. No, psychologytoday.com forward slash CA. Dr. Courtney Tolinski Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So I think that's, it's at least in North America. I feel like it's probably worldwide. But there's lots of different types of treatments depending on like what type of anxiety you're dealing with, right? So the general one that's recommended is like cognitive behavior therapy, where you're looking at your thoughts, right? And what behaviors you're exhibiting and then your feelings, right? So thoughts, behaviors, feelings. And we talk about it as like a triangle that is cyclical, right? And so like parsing that apart and figuring out how to shift any negative thoughts or unrealistic thoughts you're having into more like positive or realistic thoughts, right? So that's what you would do in CBT. For something like a trauma, like maybe like what Scott had or what I had with the car accidents. I love EMDR. It's eye movement, eye movement desensitization and reprocessing. I knew I would get that wrong. You're doing like a tapping motion, but you're going through the actual traumatic event and you're doing like bilateral stimulation on your body. And a therapist is walking you through the event. So you're experiencing it in your mind and then you're like shifting your thought, like the anxious thought you had about it and your feeling to something that is more manageable. So that's a life changing therapy. I love that one for trauma. Wes Bos Just to ask a question about like physiologically, is that like, is it essentially like redoing connections in your brain? Is that what it's doing? Or like, how does that make changes? Yeah. Dr. Courtney Tolinski So that's not something I specialize in. So trauma therapy is like definitely a specialization amongst psychologists. But how my therapist explained it was, you know, that when you have a trauma, it's kind of like cycling in your brain and your brain does not know where to file that event, So it's kind of Like this uncertain thing that's happened to you and your brain doesn't know what to do with it. So it keeps resurfacing in your unconscious because you haven't processed it, right? And so the EMDR helps your brain to like fully process the that happened and then like file it away in a safe place so it's not like ruminating. Does that make sense? Wes Bos And it makes sense for JavaScript developers. Here's a good analogy. You've just written a use effect and there's no dependency array. That thing's just going to be running and there's no context there. And then what you got to do is you got to tell it what its dependencies are and then it knows when to run with what it's associated with. Dr. Courtney Tolinski See, there you go. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So EMDR is great. Other things like keeping a journal. I know a lot of us had journals when we were younger. But journaling is great. It's a really great way to like, think through your thoughts, what happened in the day. And now there's so many like really great journals. I know you just found one. What was that called? Be well. Wes Bos I'll share it later on. Let's see if I have the link here. It's called, I did not paste the link. I'll find it. Okay. Dr. Courtney Tolinski Yeah. There's a lot of great apps that you can use or just like a general paper, pencil, notebook works too. But journaling through your thoughts. Wes Bos Obsidian works well for that, folks. If you have an app, and it works at Apple, Linux, Windows, Obsidian's a good app for that. It does like automatic daily notes and stuff. I know iOS is launching a new journaling app as well. The app that I was looking at was How We Feel is the app. It's a really beautifully designed app too. Dr. Courtney Tolinski How We Feel. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So there's tons of great apps for things like that. And then, you know, another thing that we've talked about before here is mindfulness, right? So doing like meditation, even yoga, that's really helpful. But meditation just helps you focus the present and to not get like caught up in the future thinking the like, what ifs? Because obviously we can't predict the future, right? But with anxiety, you're trying to like always think about like what could happen and then like plan for those various scenarios. So you feel prepared, but you never fully feel prepared because you don't know like what's going to happen. So it ends up being like this hamster wheel. So staying present is really helpful because it reminds you to like be grounded and to not get caught up in the future thinking. So I love that headspace.com and calm.com are, you know, really great places to go for that. And then like cardio exercise, right? Aerobic exercise, getting on the Peloton or doing like some really hard aerobic activity can be really helpful to like get that blood flow and decrease your anxiety in your body and Your brain. ([Time 0:21:15](https://share.snipd.com/snip/4c46a724-48ee-49e6-8889-4365b3eff2aa)) - **Identifying Anxiety Triggers** - Recognize anxiety triggers by journaling, observing patterns, discussing with a therapist, and seeking feedback from close friends. - Pay attention to bodily sensations and emotional responses to identify triggers. Transcript: Wes Bos People had some questions for us and had some questions for the doctor. We can get into some of your stuff too if you had other notes that we didn't hit, Cork, because I know you have stuff. We had a question that came in that was, how can we recognize our triggers for anxiety and what are healthy coping mechanisms? I know we just talked about some of those, but how can we recognize these triggers? Yeah. Dr. Courtney Tolinski So again, I think journaling or like noticing common themes of things that are affecting you, right? Whether it's like interactions with people or like certain environments, you know, just jot them down, right? And you'll notice patterns over time. So that's really helpful. Obviously, working with a therapist, therapists are trained to help unpack those triggers, right? And help you figure out what things are affecting you. Wes Bos I definitely recommend that because I would never have made the association between my traumatic event and my health anxiety if it wasn't for you unpacking that with me. Because I would have just been like, oh, I'm just anxious. I got health anxiety. I'm a hypochondriac, you know. But it was you that were like, hey, you know, that traumatic health event you had might be somewhat relevant here. Dr. Courtney Tolinski Right. Well, and you also like had, you know, some childhood experiences too. Wes Bos Truth. Yeah. Dr. Courtney Tolinski You know, so, yeah, so that's really important to do. And then, you know, talking to people close to you and seeing what they notice, because a lot of times we're like in our heads, you know, and it's hard to like see what's really happening. But the people closest to you, if they're good friends and they're honest or like your partner or whatever, they can probably give you those triggers really quickly if you ask them, You know, so talking to people, jotting them down and just being observant, paying attention to your body. And that's where that mindfulness really comes into play because most of us are not connected to our bodies at all. We're just kind of like going about the day, right? And not paying attention to like how we're really feeling internally and how we're responding to things. ([Time 0:30:02](https://share.snipd.com/snip/2496b69a-9906-408c-8386-19a64c2b7171)) - **Dealing with Uncertainty** - Deal with uncertainty by acknowledging your feelings, practicing self-compassion, and using a mantra. - List potential worries, assess their probability, and plan how to handle them. Transcript: Wes Bos So we have another question here. It says, do you have any advice on how to deal with uncertainty? I'm currently experiencing a lot of life changes and uncertainty around what the future will hold, therefore causing a lot of anxiety. Yeah. Dr. Courtney Tolinski Uncertainty is tough, right? That's kind of one of the core cruxes of anxiety is not being able to deal with the unexpected, right? Even though we know that you can't control anything in life other than yourself, it's really hard when you have anxiety because that's all you're usually trying to do is control, control The situation in your environment. So I think one of the biggest things is to just like acknowledge how you're feeling, right? To really like sit down and feel your thoughts. And most of us don't want to do that, right? It's not fun. It's uncomfortable. We don't, we'd rather just like push them aside and not deal with it. But it's so important to like address your feelings because that's what's coming up when you're anxious. Right. It's that you have some sort of feeling that you need to acknowledge. To yourself, you know, letting yourself, reminding yourself that you're having a hard time, you know, that you're going through something and you're not sure, you know, what's going To happen. And it's okay that you're feeling stressed out. It's okay that you're worried. You know, we all go through that and it's okay. Right. So having like compassion for yourself and feeling your feelings, like just sitting there and, and you can even like set a timer if you don't want to do it for long. Right. That works really well. Just set a timer, five, 10 minutes. Okay. I'm just going to like be in my feels. Right. Just going to feel my feelings. And then after the 10 minutes I can move on. Right. That's a nice way to do that too. But acknowledging your feelings, being kind to yourself, that's a big thing. Right? Another thing I really like is having a mantra. I know, Scott, you have one tattooed to your body, actually. I do. You want to share it? Wes Bos Well, which one? I have two tattooed to my body. Your mantra. Dr. Courtney Tolinski Well, the be like water. Wes Bos Okay, I do have the be like water, which is the Bruce Lee thing, because it's about being flexible and like, you know, carving your own path. And there's a lot that goes along with that. But I also have one that it says, and there was nothing to fear and nothing to doubt on my ribs. And that's from a Radiohead song, the Pyramid song. And there's a little pyramid says there's nothing to fear, nothing to doubt. And just like reminders of the types of things that I give myself when I'm, you know, not when I am concerned about, you know, who knows what my anxiety is going wild. Right. Dr. Courtney Tolinski Yeah. So having a mantra, something that's personal to you, like those are to you, I think is really helpful. Another thing is to like make a list of like all the things that could happen, right? So get it out of your mind and just jot down all the things that you fear could happen in the future, right? And then rank them on a probability. So like zero to 100, how likely is this to happen? So 100, it's definitely going to happen. No doubt in my mind, zero is there's absolutely no way this is going to happen. Right. And, and usually when you rank these things that you worry about, they're like less than 50% likely that it's going to happen. Right. So then you can look at it analytically and think about, okay, if it does happen, you know, can I deal with it? Would I do to deal with it, right? To help yourself feel prepared. So that's a nice way to like, get the thoughts out of the, you know, the running treadmill, and put it down and just like really sit with it and think more logically about, okay, if this Happens realistically, could I handle it? And most of the time, the answer is yes, right? Because the worst case scenario is probably not on your paper that you've written down. And ([Time 0:33:26](https://share.snipd.com/snip/6e67c173-37e4-424f-a2eb-d1b013514840)) - **Managing Career Anxiety** - Manage career anxiety by prioritizing learning based on relevance and breaking down large goals into smaller, actionable steps. - Dedicate specific time consistently for self-learning and focus on one step at a time. Transcript: Scott Tolinski Another question we have here is from Anonymous. I experienced some anxiety around feeling like I can't stay up to speed in the ever-changing web development tech space? How can I better deal with this type of anxiety? This is a super common question. People feel like they are getting left behind. It feels like this is my job, and I've got so much work to do. And these guys on this podcast keep talking about these new words. And I don't understand what they're talking about. And I feel like I have to spend full time learning and I'm going to become out of date and oh my gosh, I'm going to lose my job and end up on the street. All of that. Dr. Courtney Tolinski Right, right. Well, and how do you both deal with this? Because I know you talk about that a lot. How do you navigate that? Scott Tolinski For me, it's like at a certain point, you get comfortable enough in your skills and you've been around for long enough to see the waves of tech come and go. And you know that you know JavaScript or you know some sort of programming language. And should you need to pick something up, you probably can do that. And it's fine not to know about absolutely every new thing. You're going to be able to look up stuff. You're going to be able to learn things whenever it is that you need it. And being okay with not knowing something, being okay with saying, I don't know, I've never done that is a really powerful thing to be able to do. Yeah. Dr. Courtney Tolinski I think that makes a lot of sense because you're right. Like there's just no way you can possibly know everything. Right. You know, so being flexible and, um, you know, having compassion for yourself, coming back to that, like, it's okay that I don't know everything. Right. And the things that I do need to learn, I can pick up right now. And I love the idea when you're anxious of just like jotting down your thoughts, like getting them out of your head and onto paper, right? So making a list of like all the potential things you want to learn, right? And being strategic about it. So ranking them in terms of like what you think is the most important, what's most applicable to the work that you're doing right now. And then, you know, if you have your one or two after you've made your list, okay, these are the top two things I want to learn, then break those things down into like actionables, right? So maybe you dedicate like an hour a week to self-learning, right? And every week you are, you know, taking the first step of like your main goal. So like, what's an example of a language you might want to learn or a new skill? Scott Tolinski Rust is probably a good example of one where it's like, yeah, I would like to learn Rust, but that's a big thing to say. I want to do that. That's like, I want to learn to juggle. Wes Bos Yeah, it's big and it's hard. It is. It's one of those. Yeah. Okay. Dr. Courtney Tolinski So like, just hypothetically, how could you break that down into like, let's say five steps? What would be the first five things you would do if you wanted to? Scott Tolinski Oh, man, I would go straight to www.syntax Why don't we say www anymore? That's great. We should. Wes Bos That's what we should do. Yeah. Scott Tolinski Honestly, Scott and I, I feel like we're pretty good at that. You do need to take a big topic and break it down into, I need to understand the functions, the syntax, scoping, right? It down into. And then once you have it in manageable things that you can sort of chew on, then it becomes a lot easier and a lot more of a clearer path forward. Dr. Courtney Tolinski Right, right. And I think that's a lot of what anxiety is, is taking something that feels like so overwhelming and like out of your control and like putting it into your control, right? By like coming up with a plan, putting some structure around it, and then like taking the actionable steps. So dedicating time to actually learning it that's like consistent. And like an appointment, we've talked about this before, like you would exercise or whatever. You make that time a non-negotiable, right? This is an hour a week I'm going to dedicate to learning, right? And then you go through your steps like you just said, right? And so I'm working on step one of learning Rust. And pretty soon, if you keep that up, you'll have learned that skill. You'll have more confidence in your ability to tackle new things. Yeah. ([Time 0:37:54](https://share.snipd.com/snip/ae183e53-c00b-46d7-9247-e187f8579941)) - **Navigating Big Decisions** - Navigate big life decisions by identifying your core values and assessing how each option aligns with them. - Make an informed decision, accept its imperfections, and remember you can adjust course later. Transcript: Wes Bos And one of them is about career and one of them is about life. But I think, you know, some, some of the stuff can be hit on the same, same answer or the same context here. So one of them says, I feel anxious about making big decisions because I worry that I'm missing out on a better life or more happiness for myself. Do you have any advice on how to navigate big decisions? And then another question is career anxiety advice. I have a lot of peers who have hit a point in their lives or careers where they feel that either I do this job for the rest of my life or I change now, but I don't know if there's something better For them. What advice do you have on quieting or addressing this anxiety of whether or not the career is the best fit? This career is the best fit for you. So two big decisions, questions, right? Yeah. Dr. Courtney Tolinski Yeah. I mean, I think that these are common things that, you know, we start to think about in our thirties, right? Like, am I on the right path? Am I making the right decisions? Am I doing what's best for me? Right. And I think it can be really helpful to understand what your values are. So like what you value in life and what's most important to you, you know, because everyone has a different answer to that question. And when you truly know like your core values and what's important to you, then I think that you can make more informed decisions based on that. Right. So in terms of like your career, what's most important to you? Is it your salary? Is it the type of work you're doing? Is it your work life balance? Right. Like what is most important to you? And then you can think about, you know, your actual job. Right. Or whatever you're doing in life. And then what other alternatives you could do in life and kind of like conflate those based on your values. You know, so if I'm doing this, does it give me all those things that align with my values? Or is this other opportunity more in line with my values, right? So it's kind of like that pro-con list, but it allows you to think about like what's most important to me and then like logically analyzing, you know, these two big situations or decisions And how they fit with that. Wes Bos So you're talking about like taking something that's emotional and making it more logical. Is that kind of what you're saying? Dr. Courtney Tolinski Yeah, that seems to be the big theme of today. But I think it's so helpful, right? Wes Bos Definitely for programmers. Dr. Courtney Tolinski Yeah, just getting it out onto paper so you can really see it for what it is. And then you can talk to your friends about it, talk to your therapist, talk about the pros and cons, really sit there and it about it and then make an informed decision that's based on Like who you are to your true core and then what it is that you want, right? And then the next step is to like accept, right? Whatever you decided because no decision is perfect, right? We all know the grass isn't always greener. So whatever you choose will probably have some flaws to it, right? Or something that's like scarier, unpredictable. You know, there's always negatives in every decision, but you have to like be comfortable in knowing that you made the best decision with the information that you had at that time. And to like, again, give yourself that compassion that, you know, if something happens, you know, you can always shift course, right? So not anything is like set in stone most of the time, right? There are very few decisions that you can't like shift course on. So you make your best decision. And if you've stuck with that for a while, and you're finding like, this isn't working for me, you can always, you know, change your path back to whatever it is that you need to do, right? But again, just getting it out of your head, onto paper, talking about it, making a decision, I think is always key. Yeah. ([Time 0:43:05](https://share.snipd.com/snip/a19329aa-3c6d-4609-b5ed-12e3495d9811)) - **Daily Relaxation Practices** - Establish a daily relaxation practice, such as meditation or deep breathing, to build coping skills. - Use apps like "Breathing App" for guided breathing exercises to manage stress and anxiety. Transcript: Dr. Courtney Tolinski No, I think, you know, if you're struggling with anxiety, having like a daily practice, you know, five, 10 minutes a day where you're like really focusing on some sort of like coping Or relaxation strategy is really helpful, right? So if it's like your first 10 minutes in the morning, you're meditating or you're doing like a head space, you know, some sort of like deep breathing, right? We love the 478 breathing. And actually, the breathing app is a really great app too that I use. It's free. And it helps you do that 478 breathing and you can set a time limit. So you don't have to worry about it. And it will tell you when it's done. So that's really nice. But what you want to do is make it like a daily practice, like anything like exercising. You want to do it every day so that when you are feeling stress, the skills that you're practicing will actually take over. You can't expect yourself to know how to deal with your stress if you haven't prepared for it. So doing it every day really just helps to mitigate any residual stress, but also helps you in those moments where you're really stressed out or anxious and you need that support. Scott Tolinski Not to give people homework, but a breathing app is a very good exercise if you're trying to learn JavaScript as well. We had a couple of students in classes I've taught before build them because they've had anxiety. And they're like, you know what? I'm going to build my own breathing app. Oh, yeah. It's timers. It's start and stop. Async await promises. All that good stuff. So it's a fun one. Dr. Courtney Tolinski Yeah, that would be great. If you made your own, then you'd probably be more likely to use it. Wes Bos Yeah, totally. And there's a lot of good app ideas in this show, whether it's like trackers or breathers or any of that stuff. Scott Tolinski Yeah, trackers. My dad does like stretches for his back. And it's like you start to stretch, you hold it, you stop. And then there's like 10 of those. And then you have like a 30-second break and they do 10 more. And then you switch. Like there's all this like nested logic inside it. It's really good to learn. Dr. Courtney Tolinski Yeah. Stretching is great to stretching, yoga, breathing. I mean, whatever works for you. You have to find something that works. But having like a daily practice of it and having an app to keep you accountable, I think is awesome. ([Time 0:48:39](https://share.snipd.com/snip/94835f4a-6d1f-42ac-8f70-afafcfc0e3dd))