Are WordPress Agencies Doomed - CourtneyR.dev's 2nd Brain

Are WordPress Agencies Doomed? 🔗 **Source:** [Are WordPress Agencies Doomed?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aW_KUV4Ky14) > [!note]+ Document Notes > tags: [wordpress, agencies, ai-development, freelancer-strategy] > author: WP Minute > source: YouTube > reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aW_KUV4Ky14 > date created: 2024-12-19 14:30 > > # 🏷️ Title: Are WordPress Agencies Doomed? >  ## 🧰 Action Inbox - [H1] Focus on unscalable human connections with clients — 22:45 #agency-strategy - [H2] Consider productizing services within specific niches — 20:30 #business-model - [H3] Evaluate AI tools for development efficiency gains — 16:20 #ai-adoption ## 🧭 Table of Contents - [📝 Summary](#-summary) - [📖 Main Content](#-main-content) - [🗒️ Notes](#️-notes) - [📚 References](#-references) - [🗣️ Paraphrase](#️-paraphrase) - [📰 Newsletter](#-newsletter) - [✅ Action Items](#-action-items) - [🧪 Hypotheses](#-hypotheses) - [📊 Methodology](#-methodology) - [❓ Questions](#-questions) - [🔮 Future Research](#-future-research) - [💡 Implications](#-implications) - [🧠 Learning Styles Assessment](#-learning-styles-assessment) - [📊 Accessibility Assessment](#-accessibility-assessment) - [🌍 DEIB Assessment](#-deib-assessment) - [✅ Logical Validity](#-logical-validity) - [🛡️ DARVO Analysis](#-darvo-analysis) - [🎯 Conclusion](#-conclusion) ### 🔗 References - [WP Minute](https://wpminute.com) - [Agency Action Podcast](https://wpminute.com/agency-action) ## 📝 Summary - Matt Medeiros discusses the future of WordPress agencies in the context of AI advancement and market changes - Key focus on how agencies can differentiate through human connection rather than just technical skills - Addresses the rapid improvement in AI coding capabilities over the past year - Proposes "doing the unscalable thing" as the primary strategy for agency survival - Highlights upcoming WP Minute courses and community initiatives for agency owners ## 📖 Main Content The discussion centers on whether WordPress agencies face an existential threat from AI automation. Matt argues that while AI tools like Claude have dramatically improved coding capabilities, creating faster development cycles, this creates both opportunities and challenges for agencies. The core thesis is that as technical tasks become more commoditized through AI, agencies must pivot toward deeper human relationships and industry-specific expertise to maintain competitive advantage. The evolution parallels WordPress's own history - from custom coding to themes, page builders, and now AI-assisted development. Each wave made certain technical skills less valuable while creating new opportunities for those who adapted. ## 🗒️ Notes #### ⏱️ [00:00](https://youtu.be/aW_KUV4Ky14?t=0) — [H1] Introduction to Agency Action podcast origins - Key idea: Podcast created to feature boots-on-the-ground agency conversations - Evidence: "I wanted to have these like boots on the ground people who are doing this every day" #### ⏱️ [02:30](https://youtu.be/aW_KUV4Ky14?t=150) — [H2] Kurt and Toby's authentic agency experience - Key idea: Co-hosts provide real transparency about daily agency challenges - Evidence: "Kurt and Toby do that every day. It's their livelihood" #### ⏱️ [05:15](https://youtu.be/aW_KUV4Ky14?t=315) — [H2] Toby's growth as podcast host - Key idea: Transformation from reluctant participant to confident leader - Evidence: "To see this growth of how he has become that kind of leader in this role" #### ⏱️ [07:45](https://youtu.be/aW_KUV4Ky14?t=465) — [H2] Hosting Decoded course announcement - Key idea: Free course focuses on business partnerships rather than technical specs - Evidence: "Framework around how to look at hosting as like a true partnership" #### ⏱️ [10:30](https://youtu.be/aW_KUV4Ky14?t=630) — [H2] WordPress project scoping course preview - Key idea: Upcoming course addresses business-level project planning - Evidence: "How do we think about budget timeline, communication, and all that stuff" #### ⏱️ [12:20](https://youtu.be/aW_KUV4Ky14?t=740) — [H2] Agency accountability cohort program - Key idea: Paid mastermind-style program for ongoing agency owner support - Evidence: "Really about just like accountability. Jack, you said you were going to launch this thing last week" #### ⏱️ [14:45](https://youtu.be/aW_KUV4Ky14?t=885) — [H1] AI skepticism to cautious optimism - Key idea: Year-over-year improvement in AI output has been significant - Evidence: "When I compare what I could do with AI to what I'm doing today, it does feel like it just does a really damn good job" #### ⏱️ [16:20](https://youtu.be/aW_KUV4Ky14?t=980) — [H1] Claude's coding capabilities - Key idea: AI now produces tangible improvements in development speed and quality - Evidence: "Claude code in a terminal now for the stuff that I do, it's just blowing it out of the water" #### ⏱️ [17:50](https://youtu.be/aW_KUV4Ky14?t=1070) — [H2] Podloom plugin development example - Key idea: Built complete WordPress plugin using AI assistance - Evidence: "I built a new podcast plugin called Podloom... I'm running that with Claude 4.5" #### ⏱️ [19:30](https://youtu.be/aW_KUV4Ky14?t=1170) — [H1] WordPress evolution parallels - Key idea: Current AI shift mirrors past WordPress automation waves - Evidence: "You think about the evolution of page builders like Beaverbuilder then Elementor and then Gutenberg" #### ⏱️ [20:30](https://youtu.be/aW_KUV4Ky14?t=1230) — [H1] Speed vs quality tradeoffs - Key idea: Faster compute power may offset code quality concerns for most use cases - Evidence: "As CPU power gets faster and more powerful code quality matters less" #### ⏱️ [22:45](https://youtu.be/aW_KUV4Ky14?t=1365) — [H1] The unscalable solution strategy - Key idea: Agencies must focus on human connection as technical tasks commoditize - Evidence: "Doing the unscalable things... to be more human and more connected to each and every customer" #### ⏱️ [24:20](https://youtu.be/aW_KUV4Ky14?t=1460) — [H2] Deeper business alignment required - Key idea: Agencies become integral parts of client businesses rather than vendors - Evidence: "Your business is a part of my business now which means we have to really align" #### ⏱️ [25:40](https://youtu.be/aW_KUV4Ky14?t=1540) — [H2] Membership model for agency relationships - Key idea: Consider treating client relationships like professional memberships - Evidence: "It's a membership like you're selling a membership to your customers" ## 📚 References - [WP Minute Website](https://wpminute.com) - [Hosting Decoded Course](https://wpminute.com/courses) - [Agency Accountability Program](https://wpminute.com/accountability-intake) - [Podloom Plugin](https://podloomplugin.com) ## 🗣️ Paraphrase - AI development tools have improved dramatically in the past year, particularly Claude, making it possible to build complex WordPress plugins and applications much faster than before - WordPress agencies face disruption similar to previous waves of automation (themes, page builders, Gutenberg), where technical skills become commoditized - The survival strategy for agencies involves focusing on unscalable human elements - deeper client relationships, industry expertise, and becoming integral business partners rather than just service providers ## 📰 Newsletter **WordPress Agencies: Navigating the AI Revolution** The question isn't whether AI will change how WordPress agencies operate - it's how quickly agencies will adapt to stay competitive. Matt Medeiros from WP Minute shares crucial insights about the dramatic improvements in AI development tools over the past year. **Key Takeaway:** As AI makes technical tasks faster and more accessible, agencies must pivot toward deeper human relationships and industry-specific expertise to maintain their competitive edge. **Practical Benefits:** - Use AI tools like Claude to accelerate development while focusing energy on client relationships - Consider productizing services within specific niches (nonprofits, veterinary practices, etc.) - Treat client relationships like professional memberships rather than transactional services **Helpful Resources:** - [Hosting Decoded Course](https://wpminute.com/courses) - Free business-focused hosting education - [Agency Action Podcast](https://wpminute.com/agency-action) - Real agency owner conversations - [WP Minute Slack Community](https://wpminute.com) - Connect with other WordPress professionals **Community Connection:** Join the Agency Accountability cohort for ongoing support and goal-setting with fellow agency owners. Resources: [Learn WordPress](https://learn.wordpress.org/), [Developer Docs](https://developer.wordpress.org/), [WP-CLI](https://wp-cli.org/) ## ✅ Action Items #### DevRel - Developer advocacy: Share AI tool adoption strategies, create demos of WordPress + AI workflows - Education: Develop workshops on AI-assisted WordPress development best practices - Developer experience: Document integration patterns for AI tools in WordPress workflows - Developer marketing: Position WordPress as AI-friendly platform for agencies - Community management: Facilitate discussions about AI ethics and quality standards #### WordPress - Core: Evaluate AI integration opportunities within WordPress core - Community: Support agency transition strategies through meetup content and resources - Training: Create lesson plans for AI-assisted WordPress development - Marketing: Develop narratives around WordPress agencies evolving with technology - Documentation: Add guidance for AI-assisted development in best practices #### Community - Maintainers: Discuss code quality standards in AI-generated contributions - Contributors: Create pathways for AI-assisted contributions while maintaining standards - Ecosystem: Coordinate agency support resources across WordPress community ## 🧪 Hypotheses - Agencies focusing on human connection will outperform those competing purely on technical delivery speed - AI tools will eliminate entry-level development roles but create new opportunities for strategic technical advisors - WordPress agencies that productize within specific niches will be more resilient than generalist agencies - Client relationships will shift from vendor-service provider to strategic business partnerships ### 📊 Methodology - Survey agency owners about AI adoption rates and client relationship changes over 6-month periods - Track project delivery times and client satisfaction scores for agencies using AI tools vs. traditional methods - Analyze retention rates for agencies implementing "unscalable" relationship strategies - Compare revenue models between productized niche agencies vs. custom development agencies ### ❓ Questions - How can agencies measure the ROI of investing in deeper client relationships versus technical efficiency? - What specific industry niches are most resistant to AI automation in web development? - How should agencies restructure pricing models when AI reduces development time requirements? ### 🔮 Future Research - Long-term impact of AI on WordPress development job market and skill requirements - Client perception studies on AI-assisted vs. human-only development work - Optimal agency size and structure for AI-augmented service delivery ### 💡 Implications - Practice: Agencies need immediate strategies for AI tool integration and relationship deepening - Policy: WordPress community may need guidelines for AI-generated code contributions - Education: Developer training programs must evolve to emphasize strategic thinking over coding mechanics - Funding: Agency cash flow models will shift as development accelerates but relationship building requires more time investment ### 🧠 Learning Styles Assessment Reading level estimate: 10th Grade (Flesch-Kincaid) #### 👀 Visual learners - Present: Video format available, clear topic progression - Improve: Add agency evolution timeline diagrams, AI tool comparison charts #### 🔊 Aural learners - Present: Full podcast audio format with engaging conversational style - Improve: Add chapter markers, key point summaries #### 🗣️ Verbal learners - Present: Clear definitions of AI tools, agency terminology, business concepts - Improve: Add glossary of technical terms, real-world analogies #### 🧩 Kinesthetic learners - Present: References to hands-on plugin development, actionable strategies - Improve: Create step-by-step AI tool adoption checklist, relationship-building templates #### 🧠 Logical learners - Present: Clear cause-and-effect reasoning about AI impact, historical parallels - Improve: Add decision trees for AI adoption, ROI calculation frameworks #### 🧑‍🤝‍🧑 Social learners - Present: Community references (Slack, cohorts), collaborative learning opportunities - Improve: Discussion prompts for agency owner groups, peer review exercises #### 🧘‍♀️ Solitary learners - Present: Individual reflection opportunities, self-paced learning resources - Improve: Add journaling prompts for agency strategy, self-assessment tools #### 🌿 Naturalistic learners - Present: Ecosystem thinking about WordPress community evolution - Improve: More biological analogies for market adaptation, sustainability frameworks ### 📊 Accessibility Assessment #### Screen reader semantics - Present: Clear heading structure, descriptive content - Improve: Add transcript with proper markup, ARIA labels for key sections #### Keyboard navigation - Present: Standard video player controls - Improve: Ensure all interactive elements are keyboard accessible #### Contrast and readability - Present: Good contrast in video player interface - Improve: Verify transcript meets contrast requirements #### Text resizing and reflow - Present: Responsive video player - Improve: Test transcript readability at 200% zoom #### Media and captions - Present: Full transcript provided - Improve: Add closed captions, audio descriptions for visual elements #### Forms and interactions - Present: Standard video interactions - Improve: Ensure newsletter signup and contact forms are accessible #### Standards reference - Follow WCAG 2.2 AA guidelines for video content and transcripts ### 🌍 DEIB Assessment #### Cultural breadth - Present: Global WordPress community perspective - Improve: Include examples from diverse geographic markets, multilingual considerations #### Inclusive language - Present: Professional, accessible terminology - Improve: Define technical jargon, avoid industry-specific idioms #### Neurodiversity support - Present: Clear structure, consistent format - Improve: Add content warnings for career disruption topics, provide multiple consumption formats #### Representation - Present: Mentions diverse agency types and business models - Improve: Include perspectives from underrepresented agency owners, diverse client examples #### Psychological safety - Present: Supportive tone about industry challenges - Improve: Acknowledge financial stress of AI transition, provide mental health resources ### ✅ Logical Validity #### Strong reasoning - Deductive strength: Strong historical parallel reasoning about WordPress evolution waves - Inductive strength: Good evidence from personal AI tool experience - Causal reasoning: Clear cause-effect links between AI advancement and agency needs - Analogical strength: Effective comparison to previous WordPress automation phases #### Fallacies - Appeal to novelty: Slight tendency to assume newer AI tools are automatically better - False dichotomy: Minor framing of "human vs. AI" when integration may be optimal - Hasty generalization: Extrapolating from personal AI experience to all agency contexts #### Tone of voice - Overall tone: Optimistic but realistic, experienced mentor sharing insights with practical applications ### 🛡️ DARVO Analysis - Deny: No denial patterns present - Attack: No attacks on any parties - Reverse victim/offender: No victim/offender dynamics - Emotional cues and rhetoric: Supportive, empowering language focused on adaptation strategies rather than fear-mongering ## 🎯 Conclusion WordPress agencies aren't doomed, but they must rapidly evolve beyond competing on technical delivery speed alone. As AI tools democratize coding capabilities, the winning strategy involves deepening human connections with clients and becoming strategic business partners rather than service vendors. Agencies should embrace AI for efficiency while doubling down on the unscalable elements of relationship building, industry expertise, and transparent collaboration --- ## Full Transcript [00:00] Hey, it's me, Matt, from the WP Minute, [00:02] of course, the publisher of the Agency [00:04] Action podcast. I'm going to fill in [00:05] today because I want to do sort of a [00:08] monologue about agency life heading into [00:10] 2026. Some of the things we're working [00:11] on at the WP Minute that you might be [00:13] interested in both in audio and video. [00:15] So, if you're watching, hey, how are [00:17] you? If you're listening, hey, how are [00:18] you? It's always great to have podcast [00:20] listeners who love audio. Uh, first and [00:23] foremost, uh, thanks for being a [00:24] listener. The agency action podcast was [00:27] something that I started to think about [00:30] I don't know halfway through last year [00:32] and since I I'm not an agency owner any [00:36] longer ran an agency for a decade. Uh [00:38] the agency still runs my dad still runs [00:40] it has a team but I wanted to have these [00:44] like boots on the ground people who are [00:47] doing this every day like rolling up [00:49] their sleeves agency conversations that [00:52] I'm I'm just not living now. My [00:54] full-time job is at Gravity Forms. So, I [00:56] do talk to a lot of agencies for sure [00:58] because primary customer of of Gravity [01:00] Forms. And I do talk to folks like you [01:02] every day. Uh I'm just not doing the [01:05] quotes anymore. I'm not doing the [01:07] project management. I'm not selling [01:08] myself and putting myself out there for [01:11] clients to sign. However, Kurt and Toby [01:14] do that every day. It's their it's their [01:17] livelihood. And I was looking for two [01:20] co-hosts to have these more honest and [01:24] real conversations. Sure, I could like [01:27] interview people, which I which I do and [01:29] we do at the WP Minute. I could have [01:32] conversations from agency owners, but I [01:33] really wanted like two folks in the room [01:36] who are living and breathing it, having [01:38] the the real life, you know, transparent [01:42] conversations so that uh so that you can [01:45] can benefit from like being the person [01:47] in the room. That's sort of like the [01:51] genesis of agency action. And um we we [01:55] sort of wrestled with the name for a [01:57] little while. I'm not even remembering [01:58] what we called it. I think it was whose [02:00] WordPress agency is it anyway. Uh we had [02:03] some different ideas for that at the [02:05] time of like format and stuff, but I I [02:07] really do feel like Kurt and Toby have [02:10] hit a a pretty good stride. I mean, you [02:12] tell me. Send me an email mattthe minute [02:15] or go to the contact form on the WP [02:17] Minute and let me know. Let us know what [02:18] kind of content you're looking for as an [02:20] agency action listener. [02:23] But we're hoping now like these are [02:24] these stories that they share. I I feel [02:26] like they've gotten to a good rhythm of [02:29] hitting a particular topic, [02:31] going deep on it, and then most [02:33] importantly sharing their their [02:35] experiences of like how they've dealt [02:37] with XYZ topic, you know, how they've [02:40] managed it, overcome it, or maybe not [02:43] even face it at all. And like the other [02:44] one gets to ask like, oh, like how did [02:46] how did you get through that? Or what [02:48] did you think about when when that [02:49] happened or like when you leveled up [02:51] your your business, you know, that kind [02:54] of thing. So that's agency action. I [02:58] should say like Toby and Kurt, they're [02:59] they're freely donating their time to [03:02] this to this podcast. So do support them [03:06] uh with their businesses. I always say [03:07] like in agency world, [03:11] there's plenty of room and opportunity [03:12] to work with other agencies or other [03:14] freelancers working with other [03:16] freelancers and so on. do support them [03:19] in the work that they do because they're [03:23] showing up every week to, you know, give [03:26] you their best and to be as, you know, [03:29] open and transparent as possible, right? [03:32] It's it's not an easy thing. I do really [03:34] like I mean Kurt had a lot of podcasting [03:37] experience. I mean, you've if you follow [03:39] Kurt, you know that he shows up on a lot [03:41] of other podcasts. He has his own [03:42] podcast. He does podcasts for Lifter [03:44] LMS. does podcast for WP Tonic. Uh, and [03:48] I think he's a a professional in that [03:49] space. And and I I might be biased, but [03:52] I do feel like in each show that he [03:54] shows up, [03:56] he's that person, right? He's he's the [03:58] person that you want for that show and [04:00] that topic. And I think he does it like [04:02] really good here at the Agency Action [04:03] Show. And Toby [04:06] was well, I'm going to say this with air [04:08] quotes that if you're just listening, [04:10] was just a guy doing like SEO and [04:12] WordPress sites. And when I approached [04:14] him, he was just like, I don't know if [04:15] like I've always wanted to do a podcast, [04:17] but I don't know if like I can do this [04:18] if this is the right way. And to see [04:20] this re not a rebound, but like to see [04:22] this like growth of like how he has [04:26] become like that kind of leader in this [04:29] role to share his his knowledge with you [04:33] is fantastic. So definitely go and [04:35] support them at their businesses. Follow [04:37] them on social. I know Toby's always [04:39] doing stuff on LinkedIn. So is Kurt uh [04:41] on LinkedIn. uh and definitely give them [04:43] a tip of the hat because they do a [04:45] fantastic job. [04:49] The other stuff that we have coming down [04:50] the pipe. So, if you don't already know, [04:53] we have the hosting decoded course, how [04:55] to choose the best WordPress host for [04:57] your business, for your agency. And this [05:00] is a free course brought to you by our [05:01] sponsors, our lovely sponsors. You [05:03] register for this course at the [05:04] wpmin.com/courses. [05:06] This is taught by Eric Karkovac who's [05:09] our managing editor here at the WP [05:11] Minute. 30 years of web web master [05:14] experience. He's put this course [05:16] together, you know, along with me and [05:18] putting this, I guess, framework around [05:21] how to look at hosting as like a true [05:23] partnership, [05:25] how to evaluate like a host on that like [05:28] partnership level. Who who do you who's [05:30] the best fit for your business [05:33] of these web hosts? you know which align [05:37] best with your projects and your [05:39] customer. How do you be transparent with [05:40] your customer to let them know, hey, [05:43] we're not the web host here. We might be [05:45] the middleman who is helping you, you [05:48] know, interface with their support and [05:50] our support and your website and we [05:52] manage all of that stuff. We talk about [05:54] that transparency and really how to look [05:56] at this stuff as not something that you [05:57] should be hiding from the customer [06:00] something that you should be really [06:01] transparent about and ultimately like [06:04] increasing that that trust that brand [06:07] trust with your customer and then [06:08] fortifying partnerships on the other [06:10] side of that with the web hosting [06:12] companies that that you partner with. So [06:14] it's not a course where we're saying [06:17] like hey this is the host that you [06:18] should work with. We're not talking [06:21] about, you know, disk storage or [06:23] bandwidth or PHP workers. We're talking [06:26] about like the business level of an [06:29] agency and freelancer and choosing that [06:31] right host. Our next course coming out [06:34] is squarely for agencies in two [06:37] different ways. So, it's going to be [06:38] about scoping projects, scoping [06:40] WordPress projects. And again, we're not [06:43] going through like here's the plugins [06:44] you should use and if you're building a [06:46] WooCommerce site, like these are the [06:47] plugins you should be using. or if [06:49] you're using a marketing, it's not about [06:51] that technical side of things. It's [06:54] about how you should think of [06:56] approaching WordPress at scale, whatever [07:00] scale means. scale could mean for a [07:02] small brochure website and what it means [07:04] to just like keep that thing running and [07:06] how to level that up as that person [07:08] builds his or her business or it could [07:10] be at literal scale where it's an [07:12] enterprise and you're thinking okay if [07:14] I'm building a project like this quoting [07:16] a project like this what resources go [07:19] into that kind of project again not just [07:23] about how big of a server do we need but [07:26] how does how do we think about that as [07:27] an agency how do we think about budget [07:30] timeline, communication, and all that [07:33] stuff. So, it's great for people who [07:34] want to level up that side of um their [07:38] knowledge as a freelancer and as an [07:40] agency owner. It's also great for an [07:43] agency or a freelancer to say, you know, [07:46] hey, Mr. or Mrs. customer, you have [07:48] questions about building a WordPress [07:50] website. Maybe you look at my proposal [07:52] and you say, oh boy, $5,000 to do all [07:54] this. Like, that seems like a lot of [07:56] money. Getting your average WordPress [08:00] website buyer into this course is also [08:04] highly recommended because again we're [08:06] not pointing to any which way to build [08:08] the site. We're not pointing to a [08:09] particular agency or freelancer. What [08:11] we're saying is these are the critical [08:14] thinking points that is going to make [08:16] WordPress uh be the best that it can be. [08:19] You know depending on like what kind of [08:21] project you're building. So, I would [08:22] also say that if you are somebody who [08:25] goes, I kind of know it all, [08:28] you can still recommend your own [08:30] customers or your own team, like if [08:32] you're hiring people to join the team, [08:34] this is a great course to get them to [08:37] understand what it's like to build a [08:39] great project. So, look for that. The [08:42] wpmin.com/courses. [08:45] Make sure you're on the newsletter [08:46] because that's how you're going to uh [08:49] stay informed about this. And also you [08:50] can join the WP Minute Slack channel for [08:53] free. Hey, we'd love a donation uh if if [08:56] you want to help us keep the lights on. [08:57] But you can also join for free. You can [08:59] just register for any of the free [09:00] courses on the website. And when you get [09:02] log into the WP Minute, there'll be a [09:04] call to action button that says, "Hey, [09:05] join Slack here." And you can click that [09:07] button and join Slack and get into the [09:09] room with other WordPress professionals [09:12] who are taking these courses but also [09:14] who are very interested in uh growing [09:16] their business and getting you know [09:19] getting WordPress information and [09:21] talking about it and sharing these [09:23] different wins and losses and and like [09:25] what's happening in the world of [09:26] WordPress especially in the context of [09:30] what do we do about AI and that's one of [09:32] the things I want to talk about here [09:35] in a moment. moment. The last thing uh [09:38] that I want to talk about for the agency [09:40] owner is [09:42] we do have a new way of getting some [09:46] value out of the WP Minute. Right? So, [09:49] we have our Slack membership if you want [09:51] to pay and join and help support us. [09:53] It's awesome. You get some free perks [09:54] like getting into any kind of private [09:56] membership uh meetings that we do. Uh [09:58] but also uh you can get some ads in our [10:01] newsletter. Check that out. 79 bucks. [10:05] We have sponsorship for for agencies and [10:07] and product companies who also want to [10:09] get the word out about their brand and [10:11] and business. There's different levels [10:12] there. You can check that out on the [10:14] site as well. [10:16] But we also are going to start launching [10:18] a inperson air quotes again for those of [10:21] you just listening. um an in-person [10:24] cohort cohort of agency owners who just [10:27] want that accountability, some kind of [10:29] like kickoff to say, I've got, you know, [10:31] it's the start of the year, got these [10:33] plans, I've got these goals, I want to [10:35] meet with people, like-minded people um [10:38] on an ongoing basis to just like keep [10:41] that thing going, right? Kind like [10:44] mastermindy, but I'm kind of done with [10:46] that that term. Uh it's really about [10:48] just like accountability. Hey, we're all [10:50] here. You know, Jack, you said you were [10:52] going to launch this thing last week. [10:53] It's a week has gone by. Did you do what [10:56] you thought you were going to do? Yes. [10:57] No. What was the what was the roadblock? [10:59] And can we help with that roadblock? [11:00] Right. You can apply to this right now. [11:03] It's sort of taking shape. Go to the [11:05] wpmin.com/ [11:08] uh accountability intake. Accountability [11:11] hyphen intake. It's the worst URL I [11:13] could have picked, but I'll link it up [11:14] wherever you're listening to this. [11:16] accountability intake. the wpb.com [11:18] accountability intake and you can fill [11:21] out that form. I'm going through them. I [11:23] have like about a dozen of them that [11:24] have come through so far. Really looking [11:27] for the right fit for this initial [11:28] phase. It will be paid. It'll be short [11:30] money for the six weeks, but it is paid [11:33] because it does show that folks do want [11:36] to join this stuff and it does help me [11:38] pay for folks that help, you know, run [11:41] this program internally. Okay, let's get [11:43] to the discussion of today's episode. [11:46] pontificate on this idea and you let me [11:48] know how you feel about this. You know, [11:51] we're at this point where about a year [11:52] ago was really skeptical on like how [11:56] good AI and uh the output of code and [11:59] design and web development and you know [12:02] thought logic and and creativity and [12:04] research. I'm still cautiously [12:07] optimistic. I am not, [12:11] you know, I still don't know if there [12:13] are any true benefits to humanity at the [12:16] end of the day if we're adopting this [12:19] stuff [12:20] or really investing in this stuff. The [12:22] the problem that I see is I don't know [12:26] if the market is going to like let let [12:28] it go at this point. like it's not going [12:30] to let it go at this point [12:33] and AI will be a cog in the internet [12:40] forever now at this point. [12:43] But when I compare like what I could do [12:45] with AI to what I'm doing with AI today [12:47] and everybody's hype about claude code [12:49] as am I, it does feel like it just does [12:53] a really damn good job at coding things. [12:57] you know, hold your thoughts about like [12:58] the code quality and output, but it is [13:01] knocking things out of the park for me [13:03] in terms of vanilla JavaScript apps, the [13:08] you know, plug WordPress plug-in [13:09] development, [13:12] you know, certain like marketing logic [13:14] like research and and running reports [13:16] and and building plans and it's really [13:18] starting to feel a lot more agentic, but [13:20] there is like this thing where I still [13:22] don't trust it 100%. And of course like [13:25] the code quality and things like that [13:28] can be argued. [13:30] I would say there's you know I'm no [13:33] obviously I'm not an a scientist here [13:35] right like I'm not a data scientist I'm [13:37] not an AI scientist not a physics [13:39] scientist. I do think though as CPU [13:43] power gets faster [13:46] and more powerful code quality matters [13:50] less. And I know somebody out there is [13:51] flipping a table, but I think for like [13:54] 98% of the stuff like a website, even a [13:58] mobile app or some kind of other like [13:59] native web app, like a lot of that [14:01] stuff, a lot of the the bruises and the [14:05] gaps in code can be smoothed over with [14:09] just faster compute. I know that doesn't [14:12] it's a steroid, but I think it's just a [14:14] reality, right? Like when you just think [14:16] about the size of like chips in the [14:19] iPhone and how fast and how powerful [14:21] they are compared to any other like [14:25] legacy compute, it's pretty astonishing. [14:29] and you think about like okay like if [14:32] these things just get infinitely [14:34] powerful more powerful [14:36] does code quality really matter up until [14:39] the point where you need to go like [14:40] debug it and of course like for security [14:44] and I'm not here to argue that but what [14:46] I am getting to is the difference of [14:50] output [14:52] from a from a year ago is quite [14:56] like it's tangible you I can I can see [14:59] it in the in the stuff that I'm [15:01] developing. Um, I can see it in and not [15:04] only like the output, but in the speed [15:06] of how these things get done. I mean, I [15:09] was all in on Replet a year ago because [15:12] it was a contained environment and uh [15:15] you know, it had the database, it had [15:16] the hosting, the agent was really good [15:19] in terms of like going back and forth [15:20] and iterating with it and all these [15:22] other platforms where it felt like [15:23] really sparse, but claude code in a [15:25] terminal now [15:27] for the stuff that I do, it's just [15:29] blowing it out of the water. I mean, [15:30] yeah, I still got to go set up hosting. [15:32] I mean, I don't want to get into it in [15:34] this episode, but Cloudflare is like [15:36] really has some really cool services [15:38] that are really fast and really [15:41] affordable and fairly userfriendly. So, [15:44] I don't want to get down the the path of [15:45] like the real technical stuff, [15:48] but like I'm able to build a whole [15:51] plugin. I built a new podcast plugin [15:53] called Podloom. You can find it at [15:55] podloomplugin.com if you're a transistor [15:58] podcast user like I am or just any [16:01] podcast host with an RSS feed and you [16:04] want to display your podcast episodes on [16:06] your WordPress site with some other [16:07] fancy bells and whistles, check out [16:08] Podloom. [16:10] But I mean, I'm running that with Claude [16:15] 4.5 [16:16] and I am constantly hitting it with [16:19] check for performance gaps, check for [16:21] security issues, check for, you know, [16:24] proper WordPress development and [16:25] dependencies. I am taking other plugins [16:30] and comparing how they've done either [16:32] like caching or security or other [16:35] optimization and saying like compare it [16:36] to that plugin. You know, what do you [16:38] think? Run me a report. [16:41] as a power user, [16:45] as somebody who who knows business, who [16:47] knows marketing, who knows customer [16:51] success [16:52] and [16:54] just a little bit of development. Like [16:57] there's these four pillars that I'm [16:58] standing on now, being able to develop [17:00] these plugins and these other services [17:01] and going, "Wow, the game has has [17:03] flipped." And I know a lot of people [17:04] don't like to hear that. In fact, I [17:06] still don't like to hear that. that you [17:07] can say, "Well, you don't need an [17:09] engineer anymore." Well, I think you do, [17:11] but I think there's a level that there's [17:14] a certain tier that goes away. Um, you [17:17] could say that a tier goes away like the [17:18] entry level, maybe junior level goes [17:21] away. But I also think that they could [17:23] they too if they invest [17:26] in their own experiences and their own [17:28] knowledge through AI, they can level up. [17:33] But what does that mean for the future? [17:34] Like I I I really start to think about [17:37] how WordPress evolved and I mean if [17:40] you've been in it as long as I have you [17:42] go back to like page lines and site [17:45] origin I think those are two separate [17:47] companies you know Evvada and and then [17:49] and then you think about the evolution [17:51] of like page builders like Beaverbuilder [17:53] then Elementor and then Gutenberg and [17:55] now there's a bunch of different like [17:56] page builders that are out there doing [17:58] things different ways [18:01] I mean the whole theme forest era where [18:04] where people were just buying themes for [18:07] what they did, you know, real estate, [18:09] business directory, like and you were [18:11] just buying these bundled themes and [18:12] kind of like building on top of that. [18:14] And you had this whole like workforce of [18:16] people that were were buying $79 themes [18:18] and with all this bundled logic and just [18:21] like building, you know, solutions off [18:22] of that. [18:24] And all of this stuff was about getting [18:26] it getting it done faster. Again, [18:29] another phrase I know a lot of purists [18:31] don't like to hear, [18:34] but that's just like the the the nature [18:36] of it all. [18:39] Where I'm seeing this stuff excel is, [18:41] well, we're getting things done faster. [18:44] Is it the best? Yes or no. Is it the [18:46] right way? Yes or no? Like, you now have [18:48] to walk those paths of understanding [18:50] like what I'm building here, is this the [18:52] best for my customer? Is this the best [18:54] for my business? Is it secure? Is it [18:57] scalable? These are all the things you [18:58] you get to answer, but you are getting a [19:01] much faster head start. [19:04] You know, just as fast as you could [19:06] think about building a small business [19:07] website with a cadence theme, with a [19:10] studio press theme, and you're like, [19:11] "Look how fast I built this. Now I just [19:13] operate on that site, and I change the [19:16] colors. I change the branding, the [19:17] logos, and the and the content." We're [19:19] doing this with bigger chunks of [19:21] software, maybe even WordPress soon [19:23] enough. So, where does that leave the [19:26] agency owner? [19:28] And here's the only thing I can think of [19:29] right now, and that is doing the [19:32] unscalable things, [19:34] right? Like, we're doing all this stuff [19:36] so we can move faster and to scale the [19:39] business faster. And by all this stuff, [19:40] I mean like, yeah, maybe you're adopting [19:41] AI. Maybe you're productizing your stuff [19:44] now because you're like, screw it. I I I [19:46] don't even want to do custom anymore [19:48] because I it just pulls me in too many [19:49] directions now. I want to have more of [19:51] like I'm the person who does nonprofit [19:54] websites for sports leagues or I only do [19:58] veterary school websites or like [20:00] whatever your like niche is [20:03] and maybe those are the things that like [20:05] AI is helping and other automation tools [20:07] are helping. But how are you going to [20:09] win that customer? Because now if [20:11] everyone's doing it, what's the thing [20:13] that people are not doing? And [20:17] my advice right now, and I'd love to [20:19] hear other people's thoughts, and I'd [20:21] love to hear Toby and and Kurt talk [20:22] about this stuff, is to do the [20:24] unscalable thing, and that is to be more [20:28] human and more connected to each and [20:30] every customer. And it's not just like, [20:32] oh yeah, I give you your monthly report [20:34] of [20:36] how many plugins we updated, what your [20:38] stats are, and all that stuff. But it's [20:41] about [20:42] hey your your business is a part of my [20:44] business now [20:46] which means we have to really align in [20:48] the beginning. So you might think oh my [20:49] god like I can't I get all these people [20:51] they have all these businesses. Well [20:53] this is where things start to shift [20:54] where agencies become [20:57] much more part of the business because [21:00] our tooling is getting more efficient [21:02] our workflows are getting more efficient [21:03] and now everyone's doing it. we stand [21:06] out by connecting uh with that [21:09] individual or that team a lot deeper. [21:13] I don't know what that translates to [21:15] just yet, but I do know is like people [21:18] are going to want to connect with you [21:20] and be more they want want you to be [21:22] more transparent. They're probably going [21:24] to want they're going to give more trust [21:26] to you and they'll they'll probably be a [21:28] stickier customer [21:31] and you might not be able to charge for [21:32] the things you used to charge for, but [21:33] you could charge for, [21:36] you know, the the knowledge of the [21:38] industry that you're in. You know, the [21:40] the level of commitment you have to the [21:43] project and and how you're, you know, [21:45] hitting the milestones or the [21:46] deliverables that they're they're asking [21:48] for. Like that stuff is going to change. [21:51] And I would just say being more be more [21:54] human, right? Not just throwing people [21:56] to a process to a project manager and [21:59] then you get these three checkpoints and [22:00] you're out. What might the first thing I [22:03] want to lead to from like the marketing [22:05] person is like it's a membership like [22:08] you're selling a membership to your [22:09] customers. I don't want to say it's it's [22:12] that in like this quirky kind of lingoy [22:16] kind of way, but but it kind of is, you [22:19] know, it kind of is where it's like a [22:21] professional group of people and you [22:23] support all of these people and maybe [22:25] you're connecting your customers with [22:26] your customers. [22:28] Like maybe that's a thing. [22:32] Um it's something to think about. And so [22:34] the only phrase I have right now in in [22:36] light of or in the lens of AI is doing [22:39] the unscalable thing. [22:42] And I've shared some of my thoughts with [22:45] you just now of what I think that means. [22:46] I would love to hear from you. Uh leave [22:50] a comment below where you're watching [22:52] this. Send me an email. Matt at the WP [22:54] Minute. Don't forget to say thanks to [22:56] Kurt and Toby who show up on the Agency [22:57] Action podcast. If you want to stay [22:59] connected to things all things [23:00] WordPress, the wpminut.com/subscribe. [23:04] Look out for those courses, you want to [23:06] be in a cohort of other agencies and [23:10] freelancers who are looking for that [23:11] kind of level of accountability, the [23:13] wpmin.com/accountability [23:17] intake. wpminut.comacountability [23:23] intake. I promise I'll never make [23:25] another URL like that again. But that's [23:28] what it's like running a media company [23:30] as a part-time job here at the WP [23:33] Minutemen. All right, see you in the [23:34] next episode. Thanks for letting me butt [23:36] in to the Agency Action