Back to Business?  ## Metadata - Author: [[Crossword]] - Full Title: Back to Business? - Category: #podcasts - URL: https://share.snipd.com/episode/8263becd-1e26-4a59-b237-b9d86d1e3cbd ## Document Notes ## Highlights - **WordPress Drama and Pizza Preferences** - The hosts discussed recent WordPress drama, including Yoast's governance post and the pineapple on pizza checkbox. - They debated the deliciousness of pineapple on pizza, with Luke supporting it and Jonathan admitting to a potential allergy. Transcript: Jonathan So i have a question which is, how much do we want to assume people have been following all of the drama that's been happening with Matt Mullenweg? Luke I'd say 75%. Yeah. I'd say the majority of our audience, if they're listening to this season, probably listen to the previous season, which was all about. Jonathan Because there's a bunch of stuff that happened in between. Yeah. Like um okay so yoast published a blog post calling for a change in governance yep just before the break yeah that's a big deal right and then uh what else we got the pineapple is delicious Luke On pizza checkbox which how do you feel about that by the way? I feel that Matt is... No, no, answer the question. Pineapple on pizza, yes or no? Jonathan Yeah, I'm a big proponent of pineapple on pizza, but I love all sorts of toppings on pizza. The trick is to go with a strong theme. So pineapple on tomato would be great. Okay. And just with a tomato sauce base and not too much else bitter cheese but i don't i'm not not into these pizzas that try to just throw everything and have a thousand different flavors you Luke Know what i mean yeah same it's like it's confusing i actually do like pineapple on pizza i like pineapple but i'm fairly certain i'm allergic to it. Oh, that's not good. I can only eat like a little bit before like my mouth starts to like break out. Jonathan So. Oh, so how did you answer the question? Because the question is, is it delicious? It's not whether you would eat it or not. Ah, I'm not sure I did answer it. Luke I'm not sure if I've logged in since then. Jonathan There was a time, there was about a week where you needed to check that checkbox, and it since became optional. We also, what else did we have? ([Time 0:06:01](https://share.snipd.com/snip/25dea968-ae63-4b47-bcf8-c5592c1a8b66)) - **Patchstack Sponsorship Controversy** - Patchstack's sponsorship rejection from WordCamp Europe sparked discussion about contribution standards. - Jonathan questioned the decision, citing Patchstack's significant security contributions to WordPress. Transcript: Jonathan The holiday break we talked about. Holiday break. Luke You also had Patchstack, which had applied to be a sponsor of WordCamp Europe, told that they couldn't because they're not enough of a contributor. And I haven't dug into the details of it, but that was at first glance, so much of the nature of what PatchTech even does as an organization is contribution to WordPress in the form of like Finding security vulnerabilities. They didn't have a five for the future page up at least at a high level it's like of all the companies that could be picked out for not contributing i'd have a hard time like identifying Jonathan Patch stack is one that doesn't significantly contribute to making wordpress better so and it really it it speaks to how a lot of companies including wp engine contribute in ways that Are invisible, right? Most people, probably including Matt, don't realize how important PatchStack is in terms of plugin vulnerabilities. I think it's like 80 plus percent of plugin vulnerabilities that are reported to the plugin review team come from PatchStack not only do they come from patch stack but they come from Patch stack with step-by instructions for how i as a reviewer can replicate the security vulnerability they come often with a video demonstrating how it's been exploited and uh how It can be fixed like it's not just, yeah, it's not just this plugin has a security vulnerability. It's everything that I need to resolve the issue. And that's a massive contribution, not to mention that Francesca is at Patchstack. And I'm not exactly sure on her contributions, but historically she's been a huge, huge contributor to the project. Luke Yeah. And i i would argue that um in patch tax case it's more likely than not to be reversed i think i think it will be i think matt has already said he will reverse the issue okay yeah but it makes Me wonder how many others are being told and in their email response to patch deck the if i'm recalling the details correctly it was this they wanted to see significant more contribution It's like well what does that look like i can say so i'm hoping at best it seems like the response was fairly canned and not that thought out um that that seems to be the most plausible scenario But then it makes me think like who else is getting this response? Like, when I was on the WordCamp team and we were reviewing, GPL was the primary issue that we were looking at. It's like, are they GPL compliant? Not, are they, like, a significant contributor in public, like, ways to the project? ([Time 0:07:53](https://share.snipd.com/snip/ac56767c-572c-44f6-9038-05607778cf87)) - **Matt's Approach Criticized** - Luke agrees with the rule of requiring WordCamp sponsors to contribute to WordPress. - However, he criticizes Matt Mullenweg's approach and jokes, believing Matt is out of touch with reality. Transcript: Jonathan Think that it is a good rule to have, though. I don't disagree with the premise, right? I think in order to be able to sponsor a WordCamp, you need to be some sort of contributor in some sort of way to the project. And I think it would have been fair for Matt to say before WordCamp US or maybe during WordCamp US for subsequent WordCamps, WP Engine isn't allowed to sponsor anymore because they don't Contribute enough. And I think if that's where he left it, everybody would be on his side and WP Engine would be suffering. Or they would have done a 180, probably more likely, and said, you know what, Matt's right. We've been through this before, Jonathan. But I think Matt is out of touch with reality. And I think he thinks the pineapple on pizza thing and other things, I think he thinks he's a lot funnier than he actually is. I think that's a really large part of the problem. I'm sorry, Matt. I know that you have caught an episode of Crossword from time to time. And so if you are listening to this one, mate, just try to lay off the jokes a little bit you know like people's livelihoods are on the line and you're messing around on reddit with like What drama should i create in 2025 while people are freaking out about am i still gonna have a job am i it has my entire career been a waste of time you know like and when he wrote that post Luke My initial response is this must be a parody. Like, it didn't even, like, this, it felt so, no, actually, wow, that's Matt's, that's Matt's account. ([Time 0:10:43](https://share.snipd.com/snip/e63a6e4c-51a4-4ebb-ba35-ebac0f84b187)) - **WordCamp Future Uncertain** - The hosts discussed the future of WordCamps, noting declining interest in favor of events like CloudFest. - Jonathan worries about WordCamp Europe's sponsorship and suggests prioritizing contributing sponsors. Transcript: Jonathan How are you feeling about the year ahead? I think a lot of people just want to forget this ever happened and move on, myself included. I hope that the outcome of the trial is going to lead to a pretty quick resolution because they'll have to settle. Yeah. And I don't think Matt will be happy about it. There might be some big explosion. And then hopefully he takes a holiday and things can kind of get back to some semblance of normality. Luke I have a lot of thoughts on this, but just thinking about just WordCamps themselves for a moment. What I'm hearing in the companies that I'm talking to is less interest in WordCamps and more interest in events like CloudFest. And I think that's problematic long-term. So, and otherwise I can see, again, there might be a big demand that we're just not aware of, but to me, there's a real world chance that like WordCamp Europe doesn't get filled with sponsors. And what does that mean for it? Versus saying, hey, we prioritize and give maybe the best spots to those contribute the most or I don't know, something more, I guess, middle ground than what feels, at least from the Outside, like a, hey, you don't like meet these standards, which in the case like Patch Deck, just it seems at best a mistake. Jonathan Then it's and to me, sends a negative message to folks who would be future contributors absolutely i wonder who made the call to send that email surely it wasn't the word camp europe organizers I've been a word camp organizer and you want every sponsor you can possibly get you know you're nervous about not meeting budget. Yeah. Luke In the case of WordCamp US, we had more sponsors. This is several years back. We had more sponsors than wanted to be there than did. So that's why I don't want to make assumptions about it. Jonathan But even so, like surely it wasn't the organizing team who rejected a sponsor. You know, those sorts of people, they want to be inclusive of everyone. I am curious. ([Time 0:12:40](https://share.snipd.com/snip/f29e8d48-4829-4776-b4ae-2bc500329585))