Creative Burnout, Real Talk with Jeffrey from Lytbox [LIVE] 🔗 **Source:** [Creative Burnout, Real Talk with Jeffrey from Lytbox [LIVE]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyFyXxRT5rs) > [!note]+ Document Notes > tags: [burnout, creator-economy, mental-health] > author: an unnamed author > source: [YouTube] > reference: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyFyXxRT5rs] > date created: > > # 🏷️ Title: Creative Burnout, Real Talk with Jeffrey from Lytbox [LIVE] > <!-- deep-read:sections start --> ## 🧰 Action Inbox - [H1] Draft a short burnout primer for creators — context/YouTube?t=348 #articleseed - [H2] Build a symptom checklist card for teams — context/YouTube?t=626 #share - [H3] Add “sleep hygiene” slide to workshops — context/YouTube?t=760 #xref - [H4] Create “perfectionism → overwhelm → procrastination” diagram — context/YouTube?t=1885 #articleseed - [H5] Write a “Say No” email template — context/YouTube?t=2143 #articleseed - [H6] Publish a “live stream for joy” rubric — context/YouTube?t=2638 #addendum - [H7] Draft guidance on social media fasts — context/YouTube?t=2837 #share - [H8] Curate “algorithm myths vs reality” links — context/YouTube?t=2953 #xref - [H9] Capture $10k→$20k system-building notes — context/YouTube?t=3311 #articleseed - [H10] Add “reasonable quotes <25 words” policy — context/YouTube #aphorisms - [H11] Outline AI as pattern-recognition explainer — context/YouTube?t=6690 #articleseed - [H12] Template client prepayment and scope guardrails — context/YouTube?t=8580 #share ## 🧭 Table of Contents - [📝 Summary](#-summary) - [📖 Main Content](#-main-content) - [🗒️ Notes](#️-notes) - [📚 References](#-references) - [🗣️ Paraphrase](#️-paraphrase) - [📰 Newsletter](#-newsletter) - [✅ Action Items](#-action-items) - [🧪 Hypotheses](#-hypotheses) - [📊 Methodology](#-methodology) - [❓ Questions](#-questions) - [🔮 Future Research](#-future-research) - [💡 Implications](#-implications) - [🧠 Learning Styles Assessment](#-learning-styles-assessment) - [📊 Accessibility Assessment](#-accessibility-assessment) - [🌍 DEIB Assessment](#-deib-assessment) - [✅ Logical Validity](#-logical-validity) - [🛡️ DARVO Analysis](#-darvo-analysis) - [🎯 Conclusion](#-conclusion) ### 🔗 References - Burnout overview — WHO ICD-11: https://www.who.int/teams/mental-health-and-substance-use/promotion-prevention/burnout - Workplace burnout indicators — Gallup: https://www.gallup.com/workplace/237059/employee-burnout-part-main-causes.aspx - Creativity and perfectionism research — APA: https://www.apa.org/monitor/2017/07-08/perfectionism - LLMs as next-token predictors — Stanford CS224N notes: https://web.stanford.edu/class/cs224n/ - Video source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyFyXxRT5rs ## 📝 Summary - The hosts discuss creative burnout with candor. - They share symptoms, causes, and coping strategies. - The creator community features as the main stakeholder. - Risks include medical issues, toxic clients, and algorithmic pressure. - Bottom line: define limits, choose purpose, and protect health. ## 📖 Main Content - The video frames burnout as a personal, repeatable pattern. - Symptoms include sleep disruption, irritability, numbness, and illness. - Causes include perfectionism, people-pleasing, and fear of scarcity. - The algorithm chase often worsens stress and quality. - The hosts prioritize slow, values-aligned work and community care. - Definitions: - Burnout: work-related stress syndrome, per WHO. [WHO](https://www.who.int/teams/mental-health-and-substance-use/promotion-prevention/burnout) - Perfectionism: maladaptive when it blocks delivery. [APA](https://www.apa.org/monitor/2017/07-08/perfectionism) - LLMs: prediction systems, not general reasoners. [Stanford CS224N](https://web.stanford.edu/class/cs224n/) - Uncertainties: prevalence varies by sector and method. - Tradeoffs: boundaries can reduce income short-term yet save health. ### 🗒️ Notes #### ⏱️ [00:05:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyFyXxRT5rs&t=348) Prevalence and framing ### [H1] Burnout affects many young professionals > [!quote] [Creative Burnout, Real Talk…](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyFyXxRT5rs) by an unnamed author via [[YouTube]]. Published [MISSING]. Accessed . > “30 to 50% of young professionals are suffering.” Burnout spans mild to severe. Compare sector surveys. [view highlight](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyFyXxRT5rs&t=348) #xref ID:rw_[MISSING] #### ⏱️ [00:10:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyFyXxRT5rs&t=626) Early warning signs ### [H2] Sleep disruption signals rising burnout risk > [!quote] [Creative Burnout, Real Talk…](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyFyXxRT5rs) > “My sleep becomes destroyed.” Prioritize wind-down, light control, and routines. [view highlight](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyFyXxRT5rs&t=626) #share ID:rw_[MISSING] #### ⏱️ [00:12:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyFyXxRT5rs&t=760) Mood shifts ### [H3] Irritability and numbness precede crashes > [!quote] [Creative Burnout, Real Talk…](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyFyXxRT5rs) > “I wake up tired… I feel numb.” Pair mood logs with rest plans. [view highlight](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyFyXxRT5rs&t=760) #xref ID:rw_[MISSING] #### ⏱️ [00:31:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyFyXxRT5rs&t=1885) Pattern insight ### [H4] Perfectionism drives overwhelm and procrastination > [!quote] [Creative Burnout, Real Talk…](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyFyXxRT5rs) > “Perfectionism leads to overwhelm… overwhelm leads to procrastination.” Turn big goals into small shipments. [view highlight](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyFyXxRT5rs&t=1885) #articleseed ID:rw_[MISSING] #### ⏱️ [00:35:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyFyXxRT5rs&t=2143) Boundaries ### [H5] Saying no is essential protective behavior > [!quote] [Creative Burnout, Real Talk…](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyFyXxRT5rs) > “Life gets a lot easier when I say no.” Use scripts and default declines. [view highlight](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyFyXxRT5rs&t=2143) #xref ID:rw_[MISSING] #### ⏱️ [00:43:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyFyXxRT5rs&t=2638) Purpose vs metrics ### [H6] Create for mission, not algorithms > [!quote] [Creative Burnout, Real Talk…](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyFyXxRT5rs) > “I’m going to get a little bit selfish.” Align formats with joy and stamina. [view highlight](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyFyXxRT5rs&t=2638) #addendum ID:rw_[MISSING] #### ⏱️ [00:47:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyFyXxRT5rs&t=2837) Attention diet ### [H7] Social media fasts restore clarity > [!quote] [Creative Burnout, Real Talk…](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyFyXxRT5rs) > “I decided to give up social media 100%.” Test 30-day breaks with check-ins. [view highlight](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyFyXxRT5rs&t=2837) #share ID:rw_[MISSING] #### ⏱️ [00:49:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyFyXxRT5rs&t=2953) Advice quality ### [H8] Influencer tactics rarely fit educators > [!quote] [Creative Burnout, Real Talk…](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyFyXxRT5rs) > “Upload four times a day is… damaging.” Differentiate entertainment from education. [view highlight](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyFyXxRT5rs&t=2953) #xref ID:rw_[MISSING] #### ⏱️ [00:55:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyFyXxRT5rs&t=3311) Growth plateau ### [H9] The $10k→$20k jump requires systems > [!quote] [Creative Burnout, Real Talk…](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyFyXxRT5rs) > “You got to learn how to build systems.” Map roles, SOPs, and metrics. [view highlight](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyFyXxRT5rs&t=3311) #articleseed ID:rw_[MISSING] #### ⏱️ [01:51:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyFyXxRT5rs&t=6690) AI scope ### [H11] AI excels at pattern recognition > [!quote] [Creative Burnout, Real Talk…](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyFyXxRT5rs) > “AI isn’t actually reasoning.” Use LLMs for drafts, not judgment calls. [view highlight](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyFyXxRT5rs&t=6690) #xref ID:rw_[MISSING] #### ⏱️ [02:23:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyFyXxRT5rs&t=8580) Client safety ### [H12] Prepayment and scope limits reduce stress > [!quote] [Creative Burnout, Real Talk…](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyFyXxRT5rs) > “It’s always going to be 50% prepayment.” Protect cashflow and timelines. [view highlight](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyFyXxRT5rs&t=8580) #share ID:rw_[MISSING] ## 📚 References - WHO burnout definition: https://www.who.int/teams/mental-health-and-substance-use/promotion-prevention/burnout - Gallup on burnout drivers: https://www.gallup.com/workplace/237059/employee-burnout-part-main-causes.aspx - APA on perfectionism: https://www.apa.org/monitor/2017/07-08/perfectionism - Stanford CS224N notes on LLMs: https://web.stanford.edu/class/cs224n/ - Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyFyXxRT5rs ## 🗣️ Paraphrase - The hosts describe burnout patterns and health impacts. They reject hustle myths and embrace boundaries. - They favor purpose-led content and sustainable pace. They propose simple systems and kinder workflows. ## 📰 Newsletter - Creators keep reporting burnout. This talk gets honest about symptoms, boundaries, and purpose. - Takeaways: protect sleep, trim perfectionism, and ignore algorithm bait. - Starter pack: WHO burnout explainer, Gallup causes, and systems notes. - WordPress angle: simplify docs, ship small, and mind The WPOCC programs for community care. - Links: WHO, Gallup, APA, and the full video above. ## ✅ Action Items #### DevRel - Publish a one-pager on burnout hygiene. - Offer office hours on scope control. - Add “ship small” examples and templates. - Track satisfaction and rest in surveys. #### OSPO - Codify contribution limits and PTO norms. - Add an escalation path for toxic demands. - Include health check questions in reviews. #### Community - Run roadmap clinics with boundary training. - Pair first-timers with scope mentors. - Share budget transparency and buffers. #### WordPress - Core: set performance and review time caps. - Docs: examples-first, fewer flourishes. - Training: short modules with rest cues. - Community: meetup kits on creator health. - Accessibility: caption quality and session breaks. #### The WPOCC - Pilot maintainer stipends with rest goals. - Fund “no-meeting weeks” after releases. - Publish boundary templates and success cases. ### FAIR - Add “anti-capture” rules to grants. - Publish charters with sunset clauses. - Sign releases with provenance metadata. ## 🧪 Hypotheses - Boundaries reduce creator burnout reports within a quarter. - Perfectionism reduction increases shipping rate by 20%. - Social media fasts improve sleep quality weekly. - Prepayment policies cut client-related stress incidents. ### 📊 Methodology - A/B policy trials across cohorts. - Weekly mood and sleep logs with anonymized stats. - Shipping cadence tracked via repos and posts. - Client stress incidents logged with outcomes. ### ❓ Questions - What boundary scripts work best by role? - Which metric predicts burnout earliest? - How long should a social break run? - Where does algorithm pressure originate internally? ### 🔮 Future Research - Compare different “say no” templates. - Test live stream cadence on health markers. - Evaluate AI draft use on quality and pace. ### 💡 Implications - Health policies protect output and people. - Simpler content wins over heavy editing. - Prepayment and scopes stabilize freelancers. ### 🧠 Learning Styles Assessment - Reading level estimate: Grade 8–9, plain style. #### 👀 Visual learners - Present: diagrams suggested; add flowcharts. - Improve: “perfectionism loop” visual. #### 🔊 Aural learners - Present: video talk; add 3-minute summary. - Improve: podcast cut and TTS notes. #### 🗣️ Verbal learners - Present: terms and stories. - Improve: side-by-side definitions. #### 🧩 Kinesthetic learners - Present: checklists. - Improve: short boundary drills. #### 🧠 Logical learners - Present: causal links and SOPs. - Improve: decision trees and KPIs. #### 🧑‍🤝‍🧑 Social learners - Present: chat prompts. - Improve: moderated Q&A kits. #### 🧘‍♀️ Solitary learners - Present: reflection cues. - Improve: journaling questions. #### 🌿 Naturalistic learners - Present: nature breaks praised. - Improve: “outdoor work” prompts. ### 📊 Accessibility Assessment #### Screen reader semantics - Present: headings and structure. - Improve: add alt text in slides. #### Keyboard navigation - Present: basic controls. - Improve: skip links for sessions. #### Contrast and readability - Present: standard text sizes. - Improve: check 4.5:1 minimum. #### Text resizing and reflow - Present: responsive players. - Improve: support reduced motion. #### Media and captions - Present: YouTube captions. - Improve: downloadable transcripts. #### Forms and interactions - Present: simple chats. - Improve: error and focus states. #### Standards reference - Map to WCAG 2.2 AA gaps. ### 🌍 DEIB Assessment #### Cultural breadth - Present: global audience noted. - Improve: examples beyond creator tech. #### Inclusive language - Present: clear, non-gendered words. - Improve: plain-language recaps. #### Neurodiversity support - Present: chunked segments. - Improve: icon+text cues. #### Representation - Present: host and guest mix. - Improve: wider speaker set. #### Psychological safety - Present: respectful disclosure norms. - Improve: posted guidelines and escalation. ### ✅ Logical Validity #### Strong reasoning - Causal chain: perfectionism → overwhelm → procrastination ([H4]). Clear and testable. - Policy claim: boundaries reduce overload ([H5]). Supported by practice. - Mission framing reduces algorithm stress ([H6]). Plausible by incentive shift. #### Fallacies - Overgeneralization risk on “influencer advice is damaging” ([H8]). Rephrase: “often mismatched for educators.” - AI straw-man risk as “not reasoning” ([H11]). Rephrase: “LLMs lack robust causal reasoning.” #### Tone of voice - Candid, peer-to-peer, and practical. - Occasional venting adds authenticity yet needs balance. ### 🛡️ DARVO Analysis - Deny: none observed. - Attack: critique targets ideas, not people. - Reverse victim/offender: not present. - Emotional cues align with support and repair. ## 🎯 Conclusion - Health comes first. Boundaries and purpose sustain creative work. - Next steps: publish checklists, adjust cadence, and share scripts. ## 🧱 Refactor Appendix (append after 🎯 Conclusion) ### 📚 Literature Split Pad - Purpose: Stage Konik CEE units that become per-source Literature notes. - Split level: **H3**. - Include verbatim quotes under 25 words and a [view highlight] link. ### [H1] Burnout affects many young professionals > [!quote] [Creative Burnout, Real Talk…](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyFyXxRT5rs) by an unnamed author via [[YouTube]]. Published [MISSING]. Accessed . > “30 to 50% of young professionals are suffering.” Two lines: prevalence varies; cite Gallup and WHO. [view highlight](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyFyXxRT5rs&t=348) #xref #articleseed ID:rw_[MISSING] ### [H2] Sleep disruption signals rising burnout risk > [!quote] [Creative Burnout, Real Talk…](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyFyXxRT5rs) > “My sleep becomes destroyed.” Use wind-down plans and light rules. [view highlight](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyFyXxRT5rs&t=626) #xref ID:rw_[MISSING] --- ### 🔖 Atomic Split Pad (Zettel Candidates) - Purpose: Promote reusable claims into Atomic notes. - Split level: **H4**. - Each item: one idea, present tense, specific, testable. #### [Z1] Boundaries reduce creator burnout incidents - Apply “no” scripts for two weeks. - Links: [[Burnout-hygiene]] [[Client-Policy]] #### [Z2] Perfectionism predicts delivery delays - Track “definition of done” vs slips. - Links: [[Perfectionism]] [[Ship-Small]] #### [Z3] Social media fasts improve sleep quality - Run 30-day fast with logs. - Links: [[Attention-Diet]] [[Sleep]] #### [Z4] Prepayment contracts reduce stress variance - Enforce 50% up-front on all projects. - Links: [[Client-Policy]] [[Risk]] #### [Z5] Systems enable the $10k→$20k jump - SOPs and roles raise throughput. - Links: [[Ops]] [[Throughput]] --- ### ✏️ Fleeting Queue (Extract by Selection) - [F1] Draft burnout one-pager — context/YouTube #fleeting #inbox - [F2] Build “say no” templates — context/YouTube #fleeting #inbox - [F3] Scope guardrails checklist — context/YouTube #fleeting #inbox --- <!-- deep-read:sections end --> ## 📺 Video  --- # 📄 Full Transcript *Auto-generated from YouTube captions · timestamps roughly every 30 seconds · [watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyFyXxRT5rs)* **[00:21]** [Music] It's hey. **[01:17]** [Music] Hey. Hey. Hey. [Music] **[02:20]** Hey. [Music] Hey. Hey. [Music] **[03:25]** Hello everyone. Welcome to the stream. In this very special live stream, I have a special guest. It's a special topic which deserves a special guest. Uh we're going to talk about burnout. A uh topic that is close to my heart. I've had many uh burnouts in the past and I have asked my friend Jeffrey to **[03:55]** join me today. Uh, so I'm now going to switch the uh scene and then you should be able to see Jeffrey. Hello. >> Hey, Reno. Can you hear me? Okay. >> I hope so. Let's h see in the chat if everything looks good, if if if our audio is leveled uh correctly. Thank you everybody for joining live. I already see some people in the chat. Uh I see uh Ginger, which **[04:29]** we both know there. She is part of both of our communities. So nice that you're here, Ginger. Uh we have Gingu from um Korea. And we have uh Wim from Germany. I think that's how I'm pronouncing your name. We have Marius from this Bali. Wait, where is he from? Marius, do you are you also from Bali? Marius, I am streaming from Bali. **[05:02]** Jeffrey is streaming from Thailand. And Ginger says, "Hey Jeffrey, excited to see you both on a live together. Wouldn't ever miss it." Ah, that's a very nice warm introduction, which we probably need because we are going to get personal. I mean, that's not the goal, but this is a personal topic. Uh so we'll see. Uh yeah, we have some people from Pakistan and um Ginger is sharing her love for **[05:32]** us. She says, "I love uh I love so much you guys are taking on this topic. It's one close to my heart." Yeah, it's close to our heart, too. Jeffrey audio is good. Reno could be a little bit louder. Oh, louder. Okay, let's put it up then a little bit more. Um, Jeffree is nice and loud. Okay. Uh, I think Jeffrey >> Yo, Eddie, what's up? >> Is Eddie which which Eddie is here? >> He's one of the light box legends. **[06:02]** >> Oh, really? >> Yeah. >> And we have Paul watching from the USA. Two legends in one frame. Um, oh, he is watching from Slovakia. Okay, so uh, everybody is here. Uh, very nice. We're going to talk about burnouts and why are we doing this? Well, it's uh it's an important topic and more people than um than we probably **[06:33]** realize suffer from this. Uh today I actually sent out an email newsletter to my email list and uh I uh put three sources in there to research that shows how many people suffer from burnout and and the the the percentages are are shocking. It's like from the different articles that I read is like 30 to 50% of young professionals suffering. Some are light burnouts, some are severe **[07:03]** burnouts. uh severe meaning that you cannot even work anymore um for a period of time because uh yeah you are your body basically takes over and in our creative industry it is also very common and maybe even more because uh in our industry it's kind of crazy how much change there is there's a lot of fear of missing out we're going to talk about all of these things h but before we get in I just want to say that we are uh no **[07:35]** medical experts. We're just going to talk from our personal experience. We both had our fair share of burnout to to say it like that. And we're going to we're going to just share our experiences and if you're watching live then uh you can also play some things in the chat. We will try to take a look at it. Uh but for this live stream, it will be a little bit harder to see the the live chat constantly. Uh because we probably have to think a lot about what we say about this topic. Uh so but of **[08:08]** course we will always try to keep the comments in mind. And um Oh, now I see say see Eddie in there. Oh, and also Carlo. This is a YouTuber. >> He is really really making cool videos. >> Skills. >> Yeah. >> Skills, man. His editing skills, man. Yeah, >> really cool. He's He's like I I found him on TikTok and I was already seeing like, "Oh, this is quality. He's he's like faceless channel, but it's it's good quality." >> Yeah. Yeah. People got You guys got to check out that channel that Yeah. **[08:39]** >> I saw I was like, "Where did this come from?" >> I even messaged you, Reno, as soon as I saw it. I was like, "Dude, this is like, >> did AI create this?" And no, it's just uh just skills, you know? So, definitely check. >> I think the voice is AI though. But uh I think the animations are like handmade. >> Has to be. >> Yeah. Very talented. Yes. Yeah. I I I analyze, you know, because you It's just like building websites. You see a really **[09:09]** dope website, you want to see how it's done. >> And uh Yeah. Carlos videos I saw and I was like, >> "Wow, that that editing and just the style, it was just that good. I wanted to, you know, learn." >> Yeah. Okay. Uh we have uh Dennis uh from the Netherlands and also elves from the Netherlands. So the Dutch are always present. Always good to see. Uh I hope everything or I hope by the way that everything will go live as smooth because we're streaming from two different countries. Uh I hope the power **[09:41]** will stay on in Thailand and in Bali because that's sometimes an issue in our countries or our countries I'm I'm saying in in Southeast Asia. So, um yeah. Um let's just get into it. Um I um where did I want to start? Let me check out my notes. Oh, yeah. I wanted to start with a with a with a question uh to make sure that we we **[10:13]** that we're on the same page basically. Um, I wanted to ask you Jeffrey like when do you feel like you are going into the wrong direction? Like what are the signs? Because for me I often feel like weeks before like I'm getting more stressed and some things happen but you know my experience is different than yours. So that's my first question to you. What are the signs for you that you **[10:45]** feel like you're getting starting to burn out? >> Ah, it's a good question. Uh, first first, dude, thank you for having me on the live stream and being able to connect. You know, >> this is one of those ones that uh I know is going to get deep cuz you know, we've had deep conversations and you know, we've had you know, relatable experiences and uh you know, I'm going to get it's going to get raw. I have a feeling. You know, I'm **[11:16]** going to peel back some layers. And uh before I answer, I just want to say like look it if you're in the chat and you're you don't believe in it, you know, or you feel like it's just a bunch of [ __ ] you know, it's okay. Just hold off, you know, hold off uh and listen and just be open-minded and try to understand, you know, what people go through because maybe you might not go through it and I was that way. I was **[11:46]** raised suit up, boot up, walk it off, you break a leg, you know, wrap that up, dude. Throw some Ben Gay on it and get back out there. And that was the attitude. I think that contributes to it. And uh to answer your question, when I feel it is coming on, I notice several different things happening. You know, one of them mostly is my health. That's the biggest one. I feel like uh >> like the energy is is just not there. My **[12:18]** sleep my sleep is just becomes destroyed. It's the reason why I'm wearing these right now. Uh because I have to try to protect my sleep and I do everything I can to, you know, have good sleep. The, you know, the the magnesium, the wake up in the morning, do the Andrew Huberman staring in the sun for 10 minutes. But still, no matter what I do and as much work as I put into doing all the right things for my health, I still feel it. I start to put on weight. Uh it's hard to focus, but then the **[12:52]** energy crashes. It gets really severe. That's when I really start to notice it. >> Interesting. Yeah, I think I have this similar things like the the stress. I mean, it starts here, but then pretty soon it starts to have effects here. Uh, by the way, I turn my microphone up a little bit, so it should be >> I turn mine down. >> Is that better? >> I hope so. >> Turn it down three dBs. **[13:23]** >> I hope the chat will confirm that the audio is now more balanced. But, um, yeah, I mean, I one of the things I I have is that I wake up tired, which is which is annoying by itself. Um, but it's it's there's definitely a sign because sleep should re-energize you and make you, you know, excited to tackle the day. Uh, I mean, you don't always have to be excited, but at least have the energy to tackle the day, right? Um, so that is something that I that I feel **[13:54]** oh easily annoyed with everything and everyone like sometimes I catch myself. I'm like, it's embarrassing, but you know, I'm getting annoyed people around me or people on the internet and sometimes I'm just having these conversations in my mind and like, ah, this person annoying, that person annoying. And then and like four or five people and then sometimes I realize it. I'm like, uh [ __ ] it's probably something wrong with me today. Like I I shouldn't be annoyed with everything and everyone, you know? Um **[14:26]** yeah, what else? like some more okay some more personal things is I I start to have pain in my legs when I lay down that's a that's a when it's pretty bad like that's a thing in my lower legs always um and when it's really bad then I start to feel numb like to the point where I don't feel a lot of emotions anymore so no happiness but also no sadness it's just like yeah you're zoned out almost you know it's weird **[14:57]** Um, >> oh, and waking up in the middle of the night stressed and like thinking about my to-do at 3:00 a.m. Like my brain is just completely on and analyzing my whole to-do list. Do you also have that? Oh, every 3:00 a.m. is like the time, you know? It's just like, what the heck? It's like all of a sudden just wake up and can't stop thinking and then start projecting and and and everything just seems to come up at that time. Yeah. It's It's like an alarm clock. **[15:29]** That's not an alarm. >> Yeah. Yeah. Not in Not in a good way. Not like ready to go. And sometimes I'm like, I'll just get up and drink some coffee and plow through it, you know. But I notice as these things start to happen, you know, during the beginning stages, it started like snowballs. And you know for me it's like it snowballs with my health and with the stress but then you know it starts to compound on like my spiritual and mental **[15:59]** being as well. You know I'm like I can't really think clearly. Uh man and then it's just something inside of here. But then it all comes together and then it just slams my health. And it's crazy how it has such a physical impact. I notice when I get burned out, I get sick a lot. Like I'll just get sick and when I'm not, I'm I'm I'm totally fine. But it's like it just seems to hit me then when I catch something. **[16:31]** >> Yeah. Yeah. I think that the the the it does something to your like immune system like gets weak. I don't know exactly, but that's what I think is happening. So, Reno, let me ask you this. Uh, I think we're kind of like talking about some of the symptoms and the starting ones and you know, of course, not sleeping too well or you know, like ah, a bit stressed and tired like that's just kind of like life in a way. But **[17:02]** when we start talking about real burnout where it leads to, like how bad has that gone? Like what extremes has that gone? never actually cra like crossed the line from going from, you know, like I just don't feel well, I'm tired, I'm not sleeping well to like holy [ __ ] like I'm breaking or you know where where does it go to? >> Yeah. I mean, okay, so the worst uh **[17:35]** burnout that I've ever had is is my first one. Um, I was like 25, I think. Um, I was having my first company and I I didn't know [ __ ] about about business. I didn't know [ __ ] about myself. I just had passion for what I was doing. Um, I was running a YouTube channel in Dutch. Um, it it got some success. Um, but we uploaded like a lot **[18:05]** like three videos a week. It was with with a few other guys, but we also had an agency, graphic design agency. So, I was running a graphic design agency with no business experience. Um, charging way too little, uh, having no client filtering system, uh, doing all kinds of projects just to make money because we just rented our first office. I was I was super proud **[18:35]** and I got a lot of praise. That's the thing from the outside and this this really messed me up and I will I will answer your question but this is just an interesting side note which I think we should go back to. But from the outside it looked like I had made it because this is all before living with pixels before I started in English. But in in in on my Dutch channel I already had some success. We had like 30k subscribers. So in in my small country that was like the biggest software channel basically we had Adobe **[19:07]** as a sponsor. Adobe was my first sponsor. So I was like you know that's that's super cool if you're 25 and you have Adobe as a sponsor. You feel like you're on top of the world even though we did we did highly undercharge ourselves. Um it it didn't matter. I was just feeling so proud was doing graphic design work for big YouTubers and uh Oh, I see somebody in the chat that actually knows this. T Yeah, this was this was the name from my channel, Hatad. It means how how is it made basically or how does it work? Um so cool that **[19:38]** there's some very old viewers in the in the chat. Um but yeah, I was just trying to do everything and um I didn't know what what I was doing wrong. I didn't know that that you should focus in business, right? They didn't know that you should filter clients. I was just this desperate. Now looking back, desperate dude who just wanted to feel successful, but I wasn't. I was miserable. And so what started happening is that I started to have headaches in the weekends. That's what what it **[20:09]** started with that. Uh, I worked way too much until 11:00 p.m. every every evening basically just, you know, work work until you're you you basically have to sleep and then close down your laptop and then sleep. Uh, and then at some point it got so bad that I started fainting. This is the the the the worst. And the first time I fainted was like I don't even remember the exact first one but the first few times I fainted **[20:40]** because I think it happened over I think it happened like 10 times in one year. First few times I fainted. I didn't know uh that it was connected to my work ethic. I had no idea I was overworking myself. I had zero self-awareness. I didn't understand burnout. I actually was one of these people that said like ah burnout's for for you know losers that they're just like you know sleep is sleep is for the week or you can sleep **[21:11]** when you're dead and and like um um yeah just really like I was really deep in the hustle culture like really really deep and just believed in in it. I read all of these mindset books of like, well, if you just put your mind to it, then you can achieve anything. And yes, that's all true, but your body has limits. And I didn't know that. So, so I the first few times I fainted, I I was just like, "Oh, there's something wrong with my body." So, I went to the doctor after a few **[21:42]** times. And a doctor says, "Well, you're you're too stressed." I was like, "I don't think so. I'm successful. Like, what are what are you talking about?" I was like super defensive. And uh you know then when it happened multiple times is sometimes embarrassing in in in restaurants. It would happen a lot to me because restaurants would just be way too many triggers or uh how do you say that like things happening around me like in in public places. So I would had had to like yeah in restaurants happens **[22:14]** a few time and like it's sometimes just in the middle of the day I would just walk somewhere and just collapse like like out. >> Wow. And you know after it happened like 10 times I had to be honest to myself and be like you know maybe this has to do something with my lifestyle because I started talking to people and then I had my first identity crisis because because I I thought I was successful but then this happened to me you know so like wait was I not successful? It it was **[22:46]** more like an identity thing for me. So yeah, I would say fainting in the middle of the day out of nowhere um was I think the worst. Now looking back it's it was not out of nowhere. I was just way too worried with with what people thought of me probably. No, that's for sure. just way too I was way too concerned with how I came across constantly analyzing myself everything **[23:20]** that yeah I don't know just wanted to be successful bro >> I don't know how to answer this shortly but this is I think this is it >> I don't think there's no short answers to any of this because it's so complex you know like >> man like just all these different things that happen, these different symptoms, especially when it comes to, you know, the physical side. And now we're even seeing more like content creators or other people coming out saying, "Hey, I **[23:51]** disappeared for a long time and this is why, you know, Matt Diavala just, you know, he came out with one and >> and when he shared a story like I I think I share I sent that over to you because man, it hit me in the heart like I knew that feeling, you know, that feeling of you got employees that you're worried about. you have, you know, your own livelihood you're worried about. And that was my first situation trying to start my first agency. **[24:22]** >> And but before that, and I never knew of what this was. I never heard of it, you know, before that, before I started web design, I was a manager over at a Home Depot. And I worked my ass off to get that position. Like I started stocking shelves and I worked my way up to a manager in a year and a half. Like I like broke records and I I would literally run circles around everybody and that's how I moved up so quick. But I was younger. I had that energy. I had **[24:52]** that drive and I could I could do it physically. Like there was a time where I had gout and we had to wear like boots and I was still just an associate but even with gout I would wake up and fall down because like my legs hurt so bad but I throw those boots on. I remember stringing it just like feeling the pain. I'm like let's effing do this. And I would go and I ran circles around everyone. I would even go on my days off. I would go in to see what the manager's meeting was about. Like I did **[25:23]** I was crazy like that. I I was doing hustle culture before I ever heard of it. And uh I'm made my way up to manager. I got the position in one of the craziest Home Depot stores you could think of, you know, uh right in the middle of Los Angeles by Dodger Stadium. We're like in the top 10 for sales but number one for theft. Like we were in that area, you know, like in the hood. It was crazy. And uh it was just a toxic environment. I had uh co-managers that **[25:53]** would throw you under the bus at any sign of weakness that you showed. And it was just really bad. And I remember one day, my last day, like I walked in and it was just insanity going on. I had one co-manager screaming and yelling at everybody, flipping the store upside down. I had another one. They called me over just so they could go to a department supervisor and just ridicule him and break him down for like fun, you know? And then I saw another co-manager **[26:23]** just walking just he's checked out. He's just like, I don't give a f about what's going on. And then I saw the door and I couldn't see anything else. Like it was the craziest experience because I looked around and just saw all this chaos and I saw the door and it was like those movies when you're like going into the light after you die. That's how it looked and I just walked out. I just walked out. Walked straight to my car. And I just left. And I don't even know what I did for the rest of the day. See, **[26:53]** I didn't know what I was going through. I didn't know like what that meant. And and like in hindsight now it kind of sucks because like Home Depot had resources for when stuff like that happens to get help. But instead, you know, I didn't want to show weakness. I lied about why I can't work there anymore because, you know, that ego and all that stuff and I didn't want people to look at me like I'm weak. And >> yeah, >> you know, uh I left to Thailand, became a web designer, but I didn't learn. So, **[27:24]** I had to go through it a lot more until I did start to learn. >> Oh, that's so relatable. That's so relatable. It's like you you with some of these problems in life, like these bigger bigger deeper problems, you it's you feel like you fix it because you walked away, but then it just hits you right back because you haven't solved the core of the issue. **[27:55]** Yeah. Yeah, I feel that. >> Oh, wow. That I didn't know this story about you. Thanks for sharing. >> Yeah. And it seems like there's a many different core reasons like and the more that I read about others who have gone through it or I see what other people are going through, many have different different reasons that lead up to it. >> You know, that's one thing I've learned. **[28:25]** Uh >> what are what are some of yours? Like what have you caught those yet? Have you started to see like okay this is the pattern? >> Yeah. Okay. Well, the the um okay the the pattern starts with the starts with the the symptoms I would say but yeah also the pattern on a deeper level. Um I okay I just want to I just want to in order to introduce this I want to highlight two comments. I see one from **[28:58]** Carlo. I tend to procrastinate when I'm overwhelmed. Yeah, these two these two words are very very important. Procrastination and and overwhelmed. Uh makes everything works. Yeah, totally have that as well. Uh uh Carlo and oh this one from Paul. Do you guys think it's the amount of work or the pressure responsibility to deliver a real client project that weighs on you more? Yeah. So okay, that's also an interesting one. Um and Ginger says, "My one is people pleasing." Yeah. Yeah. Ginger. **[29:29]** >> Yeah, this is this is it's good that we have these comments because now we can go a little bit deeper. Um, so okay, there it's it's a it's a longterm process. I would say the last severe burnout I had was like four years ago. So this was the moment where I I my YouTube channel was had this success. Uh, okay. when I blew up actually in 2020 that's when I had another burnout and um then I was like wow there's a **[30:00]** great great opportunity I now should hire people rented the big office uh and then there was a lot of cost and the management from you know having people in an office took a lot from me and I couldn't really do it so that was another burnout like two two years later but then also I was very unlucky because my office went on fire I I made a video about that but I literally my office building got on fire. The whole building and uh I lost a lot of money. I just **[30:31]** invested in like new Mac minis and [ __ ] and like new desks and and chairs and everything. So So that was another one. Um and I'm I was starting to understand more about myself. So the first thing I think I realized about myself was perfectionism. And perfectionism leads to um **[31:02]** procrastination because the okay so I think perfectionism leads to overwhelm overwhelm leads to procrastination. So let me let me explain this is I think the first core concept that I understood um procrastination or um um wait what did I say one we have procrastinate overwhelm in the last one what was it >> people pleasing I think I have one more **[31:35]** did I forget um huh Oh, perfectionism. Okay. So, um I catched myself being too perfectionistic because if you work in a team, you see the differences in how people get [ __ ] done basically. And so, I I catch myself being perfectionistic. And I had another co-orker who also struggle with that. So **[32:06]** we could we could talk about that and we saw that that was that was slowing us down because we were having like way too many meetings about small things and then it it wouldn't it wouldn't move. And so um that pressure I put on myself to make something perfect then created overwhelm about my own work. And then when when the overwhelm is too much and there's multiple projects going on where you're **[32:37]** overwhelmed about at some point your mind just want to zone out and then when procrastination kicks in because you it's just too much you know so that that's the first thing that I saw. Perfectionism leads to overwhelm leads to procrastination. And then if you ask me on a deeper level, I also learned from a from a book actually um not this one which I want to mention in this stream a little bit later. I **[33:08]** have a good book about burnout. That's a I think an an an even deeper question, but this one uh let's do this one first. I learned that perfectionism is not actually just wanting things to be perfect. And and perfectionism is like a blessing and a curse. It's good that to to make want to make things really good, but it's also a curse because it actually comes from often fear of failure. **[33:38]** >> Mhm. >> And that's that's deep because then we're talking about our deepest fears, right? Like where where does fear of failure come from? Why why are we so scared to fail or certain people, you know, and why do some people just keep it all simple and they just walk flawlessly? I think we've all seen these entrepreneurs that just seem to do everything so easily and they just don't judge themselves too hard. They're just putting stuff out and and **[34:10]** oh, I also read that in a book. It's a there is a there is a um um there is a research that they did that the less intelligent entrepreneurs often no not often I I don't know exactly how to say it perfectly but the the theory is that the smartest people they question themselves too much because they see all the roadblocks and so then the people who just do things without much thinking they actually get further. **[34:43]** Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. And so when I realized that, I was like, "Oh, wait. So my perfectionism, maybe I do see all these roadblocks, but if you only see the roadblocks, you don't want to drive the road." Yeah. Yeah. And then they just stack up, right? Like you got one thing like I I just relate to all of it, you know? get something and uh the perfectionism just leads to procrastination and then nothing gets **[35:15]** finished and then something else comes up and then something else and >> like for me like things will start to stack up like and then I'm trying to juggle many different big things at the same time. Yeah. But not able to get any of those done. You know, that's the reason why at one point I had to let the agency go. Like I had to. And uh the one thing I found I had to learn how to do was say no. >> And it's still a hard thing to do. **[35:45]** >> Yeah. >> And uh I it's it's one of the most important things anybody could do is learn how to say no a whole lot more. And I notice that when I do say no a whole lot more, life gets a lot easier. But you know, when I say yes to something, like, and a lot of the times the yes is either people pleasing or fear-based. >> It could be either one of those. Like I want to make them happy. I don't want to **[36:17]** make them upset or, you know, like I don't know what else is going to come. maybe I should do this right now just in case, you know, this doesn't work out. And then, you know, now it's like the cycle starts to go over again. The stress starts to go up. The unhealthy habits kick in to >> cope with the stress in a way, you know, uh >> and and and then uh yeah, and then it just becomes that whole cycle. But now, **[36:49]** now that I could see the cycle happening and I understand, I've seen it and I just went through burnout a few months ago, like two, three months ago, and I'm still recovering from it, which is why this topic really and this discussion really hits me uh to the core in my heart is because I know what it did to me. Like this last one, this last one was one of my worst ever. Like there was a moment where I actually considered going to the hospital. There was a moment where I sat there. I'm like my **[37:20]** heart would not stop pounding out of my chest for days. Like it was nonstop. >> And I'm like, I might have to go to the hospital over this one. And I've heard of people having to go to the hospital over burnout. >> And I thought that was the one. And it was very close. The only reason why I didn't is because so much stuff was happening like in our home with these big changes that it's not just me, you know, like in my household. And I had to **[37:53]** do everything I can to stay strong for everybody else. >> Wow. >> And that's all I I kept it in. I just kept it in because I knew if I broke, what would happen to everybody else who depended on me? especially in this situation. And uh that was a close call, man. When I got back, uh I was sick for a month, you know? Uh it was sick, dude. It got bad like not just physically, but all the way around. **[38:23]** >> So like I catch myself before more often now by seeing the patterns and I know when I need to start saying no and how to prevent it, but sometimes that [ __ ] just comes up. it just creeps up, you know, and just blindsided. Like that one blindsided me, you know. Some things were out of my control. Some things I just made bad decisions on that led to that. Yeah, man. What was your most recent? Yeah, same. Same. I I shared it with my **[38:56]** um email subscribers. I messed up the launch of my uh Figma design course. So I made a course about web design that also included Figma and I I really wanted to make it good. Uh but I underestimated it and um um there was a lot of pressure because I was working together with a marketing agency that would help me with the launch and they had a lot of knowledge on how to do things. Um, but it ended up **[39:30]** being more work for me than than what it's um than the promise. I would say the promise was like, you know, you can just create and we do the rest of the back end. And but there were a lot of decisions that I had to make uh because I didn't like a lot of the stuff that they were doing. Um and so because my my way of doing marketing is um different than that they would do it. **[40:02]** And so that created a lot of pressure but I wanted to go live and so I had to record like 30 40 videos in a month next to my YouTube upload. So I I completely uh collapsed and um uh on the I think the 1 of July or August. Yeah. I I completely collapsed and and the the first day I didn't even realize it. I was just like, "Oh, this was heavy." And then the next day, I think I was like, "Oh, [ __ ] I'm I'm burned out." Like my **[40:35]** whole body was just tripping. My whole nervous system was like completely messed up. So, I I took a few days to think and just like uh yeah, make plans. and I I canceled the collaboration with them. And you know, this is this is really the thing that you're saying. I I feel like it's it's not it's not just about what what could work. This is one of the things I wanted to say actually in this live stream. It's it's not about what is best for the business. Sometimes the **[41:06]** question is simply what is good for you? And and this is not a top a popular topic because on YouTube it's always everybody only talks about what is the best for results. And first of all these views are often very uh how would I say it tunnel visioned because they people always share what **[41:37]** worked for them. They say, "Oh, this is the best way to do this or this is the best business model." It's like, "Well, this one works for you, right?" But but they they present it as if as if it's it's the best solution, you know, and then and then even if you pick a business model and you you stick to it, um you still have to find a way that works for you. But I think I I've always viewed my career through through this lens of what is the best for the business or **[42:08]** what is the best for the viewer uh for the for the customer. And that's a beautiful mindset. I don't think that there's anything wrong with it and I think I've achieved quite a lot with that mindset. But did I lose myself in the process many times? you know. So now the question is like now I'm really starting to think like what do I want? I I like these live streams. Not everybody likes them actually. Like **[42:38]** I I some of the people think that it's it's way too or way too long because my live streams can can go way long if I experiment with stuff with with I don't know if I build uh stuff AI whatever. Uh but it's it's not a polished tutorial. So now I at the beginning of my live stream I put even a message there. I'm like this is not a polished tutorial. I'm just experimenting. I'm just vibing. Uh and also this show this this this **[43:08]** talk we are not just teaching. We're just talking. We're discussing. We're learning from each other. And but I love this. I love doing these live streams. I I've been wanting to do this for years. H but I've never got got the Yeah. I I think I always like had this mindset of like I have to do I have to do what's best for the business and these live streams are not so good for my business. I love them, >> right? >> Yeah. Yeah. I know exactly what you **[43:38]** mean, man. >> Yeah. like I want to do them, you know, and now even I'm thinking about 2026 already and I'm I I am really going to do some changes next year because the way I'm I'm I'm making my videos right now is just way too much for me. And so I think that's that's the main thing that I'm going through right now. It's like it the question is not what can work or what is best. The question is what do I want? Because and and that sounds selfish, but I have been **[44:10]** selfless, way too selfless, way too much peopleleasing for many years. So now I'm going to get a little bit selfish. >> I love it. I love it, dude. I'm with you, man. I'm I do I dig it so much. And God, you know, like I just had so much clarity recently because I made some major changes in my life and I've been doing a lot of work. Like I said, [ __ ] it to everything. Basically, this last one like I I I don't want to ever go **[44:41]** through this. I don't want to keep going through this cycle. >> And I kind of realized something as my mind got clear. I kind of realized all that stuff is [ __ ] Like everybody's saying, "I got to do this. This is how you do it. This is how you do it. This is what you do. This is what you do." And then you're trying to follow it. Like for an example, you want to blow up a YouTube channel. Well, you got to create you like Gary Vee, you know, you create a big piece of content, you put that out to 20 different videos, you do that three times a day and that's how you grow a channel. That's how and it's like, you know, like I've been feeling **[45:11]** that stuff in my head. And there's a lot of good stuff that came out of it. But a lot of stuff is just [ __ ] that I didn't need to hold on to, that I didn't need to treat like it is something that this is how it's done. And I came to the same realization, Reno. I I don't give a [ __ ] anymore. Okay, I'm I'm I'm just going out there right now, dude. It's late. I put my foot in my mouth. I'm just gonna get real right now. The thing is, like I honestly >> don't give a [ __ ] anymore about the **[45:43]** YouTube algorithms, about the views, about subscriber counts, about this. And I I just come to this realization that, you know, trying to chase the algorithm, >> Yeah. trying to chase all these other things, trying to do like what Alex Hermosi is telling you to do, trying to work out like David Gogggins at 3:30 in the morning, all this stuff hurts me. It doesn't help me. It doesn't make me happy. And when I got clarity and I took a step back and I knew taking **[46:13]** a step back, like I knew my views are going to tank, my algorithm is going to tank, all that stuff. I'm tired of YouTube putting us through this, man. I I'm I'm just like done with it, you know? like I want to create because >> I remembered my mission and why I did this. I started doing this so that way no web designer or no creative needs to do this alone. Nobody be needs to be alone going through burnout going through a situation where they're working with 10 different clients. Seven of them don't want to pay. The other **[46:44]** three are just like disappeared and they don't know how to pay their rent. And then they got another five clients are just pushing them too hard because like they want scope creep and they're hanging the money and payment over their head because they want to get more and you're trying to put up boundaries and trying to say the contract says we're only supposed to do this and they're like and at the whole time you know just worried about how am I going to pay my rent? How am I going to take care of my family? This I'm I'm getting destroyed right here. I didn't want anybody to be alone in that again. Alone trying to **[47:16]** learn, alone without >> Yeah. >> having it. And you know, I just came to that realization like that's why I'm doing it. The mission. It's not for >> it's not for the hustle culture. It's not even for money. It has nothing to do with that anymore. And you know, like some of the things I've done recently, uh, for like the last, you know, like for well over a month, uh, I decided to give up social media 100%. Which is crazy. As a content creator, I thought as a content creator, I had to keep **[47:46]** Instagram or I had I gave it up. I'm out. I'm out of it for good, for life. It's not a little, you know, a break. I made a conscious decision. I no longer want social media and these these monsters to control my life and do things like they have been doing. Like and when I got out of it, I started to get more clear like the way everybody's getting played right now and why people are going through this. I mean, somebody mentioned earlier in the chat like my parents, you know, 50, 60, **[48:18]** 70 years ago worked all these hours and and they never dealt with burnout. Nobody ever did. Things are so different right now. We got these monsters that are literally fighting to steal as much of our time and attention as possible to they will destroy the fabric of society and all of us. And they will do whatever they can just to make another trillion dollars because, you know, the trillions they have isn't enough. Yeah, I guess I'm kind of going off on a rant right now, but basically **[48:51]** getting out of it, I just kind of saw what was really happening and got that clarity. >> Yeah. Okay. Okay. I want to I want to reply. You touched on a lot of a lot of good points. Um, so first of all, I want to I want to reply to that that whole Gary Vee, Alex Hermon [ __ ] Um, I think you're so right about that. And and I think when you're desperate for success, it's very dangerous because then then you you want to listen to **[49:23]** these guys because if you look at their YouTube channels and their their whatever social channels, they have a few million followers. So then the assumption is they must know something that I don't know. and and like but they they have often a very like um uh uh small view in in which they talk. So for example, Gary is the perfect example for people that don't know is **[49:53]** I'm talking about Gary Vee, okay? So Gary Vee has has a has a social media agency with like a thousand employees. So then you think that he has the answers, right? But this guy is incredibly extreme and he feels a bit out of control and he he is the guy that says like you should upload four times per day on Tik Tok or he he doesn't even I don't know how much he says but he has crazy numbers, right? And um and the thing is that that it's **[50:27]** just I'm sorry to say but it's just stupid. It's just too I I I'm just I'm just saying it now. It's just stupid to say that he is really damaging people because because um it depends on the content you make. Like it's not like he has a c he is an entrepreneur. He has a camera he can pay a camera guy to to follow him the whole day and he can pay a separate editor. He has like a whole team doing his video content. Of course, **[50:59]** for him it's easy to say upload four times a day on Tik Tok. But seriously, first of all, >> I think it's 40. >> Come on. Come on. But like first of all, who has time for that? And then and then second of all, it depends on the content. Like we make educational stuff. You cannot make four good pieces of education every single day for a whole year. It is impossible. Why? because we have to do research. If **[51:29]** you are a girl and you look good, you can take four pictures of yourself in the mirror and post. It's not hard. But if you are like us on an educational channel, you cannot do that. And then you have guys like Mr. Beast who are the complete opposite, but they also influencing a lot of a lot of young dudes. Mr. Beast basically saying, "Become the absolute perfectionist of YouTube. hack the algorithm and then and then you will get a lot of views. But **[52:00]** then Mr. Beast spends a whole lot of of money and preparation and and and a whole team on one video and then that video hits. But but he is making entertainment. We are not. We are creating education and and so but but Mr. Beast has had a huge impact on on many creators probably **[52:30]** hundreds of thousands of creators because he made this concept popular of like retention hacking. You should have all kinds of like things in the screen and every two seconds there should be a cut because otherwise people are not engaged. But what ended up happening is that people got tired of it. really tired and and and not just tired of this concept, but tired of watching a video with too many visual effects. Like that's literally it. So, this is one of the things I'm going to change next year. I'm going to cut out a lot of the [ __ ] I'm going to basically ask my **[53:01]** editor of like I don't want any of these the gifts anymore. I don't want any of the the pop the sound effects and all of that [ __ ] You can skip it. You can skip it. We're not going to do it. We're just going to keep it simple. Probably just going to put a camera in the corner. I'm just going to record with with my iPhone. I mean, this this iPhone camera, come on. It looks it looks [ __ ] great. I don't need like a crazy camera. It just looks good enough for for what we're doing, right? I'm not a filmmaker. I'm a web designer. And nothing against if you have a good camera. I would love **[53:31]** to have a studio with a good camera, but it's not it's not that's not what it is about. That that's what I'm what my point is. It's not about the fancy editing. It's not about uploading four times a day. If you have something valuable to say, you open your mouth. If you don't have anything to say, just just shut the [ __ ] up. You know, like there there way too many people talking that that don't know what they're talking about. And not that I'm always correct, but like **[54:02]** >> it's it's getting a microphone in front of your face is too accessible. Okay. I have I have done a um I have a design degree. Okay, I can talk about design and I have you can see my track record on YouTube. There's a lot of [ __ ] and you for you too, right? You can you can check we know we know stuff and so uh but in this world everybody can talk and then and then you know they one thing works for them and then they **[54:34]** they're going to say like oh this is what you have to do and then the moments we feel insecure we watch that they're like we need to do that. >> Yeah. We got to be careful who we're learning from, you know, and uh I I'm I'm okay with like Gary Vee, Alex Ramoszie, Dan Martell, you know, I listen to I I I cycle through like every morning I start off listening to podcasts. Some days like like right now **[55:04]** I've been listening to this dude purpose driven like his and he just does this. This gets a phone, no cutting, no editing. His channel just blew up. But like, dude, some of his videos like I'm just like, you know, out on a walk or going to the gym or just getting ready. I'm like, dude, it >> it it energizes me. And you know, he's talking more about spirituality and stuff. Sometimes I'm listening to like J Shetty with somebody that I'm talking about, you know, like cognitive health. Sometimes I listen to Alex Heroszi where **[55:35]** I'm trying to learn more about the business. I'm always cycling through. But one thing I've realized about like the big guys like Alex Hermoszi and Gary Vee, these guys have built multiund million dollar companies. So how is somebody making in the hundreds of thousands or under a million dollars going to really learn what they're doing? >> You know, because it's such a massive step. I feel like the people who are going to learn from them are going to be **[56:07]** somebody who's already making a hundred million and need to make 500 million. >> And then people who are making like 50,000 need to learn from somebody who's making 150,000 and vice versa. Like I I learned that the hardest jump to make financially is going from 10,000 to $20,000 a month. That is the hardest jump in all of like wealth building and going from that because getting to $10,000 a month, you could do that with **[56:39]** hustle culture. You could do that just but pure hours, grinding, grit, and you could get that like anybody can make $100,000 if they get good enough at something >> and just sacrifice, you know, everything for it. But to get to 240 and $50,000 a year, you got to learn how to build the systems. You got to learn how to build the infrastructure. You got to learn a lot of other things that is a whole other skill set to develop. But also, **[57:10]** what I think people need to be careful what they're learning from are things like all these videos saying, "Here's how to find clients." you know, and I I've seen a few of them lately and I'm like, it's the same generic things like this is not answering the question on how to find clients. I mean, anybody could say go here, go there, go there, but that's not really teaching how to find clients because, you know, it's it's how to find, not what to do, but **[57:41]** how do you find it? And then >> like like I was about to make a video on this and I know it's going to piss a lot of big YouTubers off in the WordPress space, >> but people are learning from people who aren't good at web designer WordPress. >> Yeah. >> Who have bought views, who have bought subscribers and played that game. >> Yes. >> And uh I think I I think people are going to be feeling frustration, especially in the chat. I see some things and I'm sure you know it's **[58:11]** frustrating. It's pretty difficult trying to learn how to develop a skill. How do we figure these things out and who do we actually learn from? >> I mean, I think it's be I think the one of the most beautiful things about YouTube education is that you can choose your teacher. Um, but that also is at the same time a risk. I mean, I think yeah, it's hard. you know, I'm I think many teachers that teach in school, they're also not good. **[58:44]** Um, but they they might not bring you to a super high level, but they can probably bring you to that next level, right? And yeah, I think you made a great point. It's like you're listening to this dude who is like 10 levels uh from where you are and then you think that somehow magically you can make that jump and of course it gets views because you want to be there, right? But yeah, maybe that that quote is is true of like the teacher only has to be one step **[59:14]** ahead of the students. That is the best way. You know, I was listening to this new channel and this guy does coaching and I believe in coaches. I believe in coaches and courses. I think they are a very important part to the growth if you want to move up. But then he said his price $80,000 for one session. And I was like, he's he's coaching people at a much different level. And then I thought like, dude, this got to like this can't be real. And then he said, you know, for like 10 sessions, it was something like **[59:45]** $400,000 that people >> who is that I'm sorry, but like >> right. And so I went straight to Chat GPT. I'm like, dude, this can't be real. >> And Chad broke it down, dude. It broke it down that, you know, there are people who are running companies worth hundreds of millions and for them to spend $400,000 for somebody to fix a $5 million problem for them. >> Yeah. >> Makes sense, you know? Oh, >> yeah. Okay, that's a good point. >> You know, back in the days, I don't **[60:17]** think this was so much of an issue, but nowadays it's different. What do you think is different that does cause burnout? Whether it's somebody freelancing, somebody making content, or somebody's even working a nine-to-five job as an employee. What's causing this? What do you What do you see that's beside I know social media is a big part of it. I believe that part. But what else do you think? >> Yeah, I think yeah, like like we said, social media, listening to to these extreme guys. Uh yeah, I think now is **[60:49]** the moment to grab my book. >> Okay. Yeah, I am a big fan of this book. Uh I've been reading it. I am uh at 75% and it is so far the best book I've read about about burnout. Um, and it talks about a few different things. Yeah. F first just the the the general uh time that we live in. Um, I think I **[61:19]** don't know if I already said it in here, but um, the modern times of of today are just a lot more mentally taxing than than before the internet. And that's because work doesn't stop after five or six. That's already a huge problem because normally employees or even entrepreneurs back in the day before the internet, you would not have a computer at home. So **[61:50]** you would not work at home. When you were home, you were home and you had four or five hours to decompress your mind before you went into bed. But but what do we do now? When when we're in bed, we're like this. with our fault. I mean, I'm not doing it anymore because I know how damaging it is, but um we are we are constantly um putting our brain to work without giving it proper rest. I'm absolutely guilty of this. So, that's one, the modern times **[62:23]** are just more heavy for the brain than before. And two, we have a lot of problems which we know now about which we we had which has no relevance in our lives. So when my parents were young, you only pro you probably only knew stories about what happened in your city in your neighborhood or something. You know, sometimes you hear the story about something big that happened in the city. You didn't even know about the next **[62:53]** city. And and now we're getting, oh, there's a there's a murder in this country or somebody blew up a truck in this country which you have never been to and you're probably never going to visit, but you have to know every every single detail about it. It's like we are humans. We are sponges. We we we we suck up energy, bad energy, and the news is just throwing everything at our face every single day. **[63:23]** >> And so that's not good. I've absolutely stopped watching the news. I I will get the important information via social media if something really happens. But like it is incredibly um we get we get an incredible amount of unnecessary information to process because your brain has to process it. And everybody who says that they can just sleep fl sleep fine maybe but your brain has to process it. A beautiful example is uh subliminal marketing where **[63:57]** this is um um do you know this this story about that they figured out the frame rate in cinemas was like 25 frames per second which is what your eye will see as smooth motion. Uh that's that's that's what they figured out in Hollywood, right? But then um when it's more than 25 frames, your eyes don't register it the frame, but your brain does. And so they did tests. **[64:28]** This is super interesting. Uh they did test where they put like one little frame uh which is more than 25 frames per second uh be five minutes before the break in the cinema of of an ice cream and the ice cream sales went up but without people realizing that that they've watched ice cream. So our brain processes information that are too fast for our eyes. It's really weird how it works. But my point is we we believe **[64:59]** we're in control on a lot a lot of things in life, but we are easily influenced by a lot of [ __ ] And >> and this is just one example how they how they manipulate how they manipulate uh uh people. Um but the news is just very like obvious of course. So uh that's that's another thing. We get a lot of drama about countries where we don't understand [ __ ] from. We have the biggest opinions about cultures we don't **[65:30]** understand anything about. I mean I don't want to get into the current situation but this is this is uh something I am uh seeing more and more. Um, and then of course, like I said in our creative industry, it's like now it's it's it's I mean what I'm doing is like, okay, Elementor is moving to Elementor V4. That's a huge shift. If you're an Elemental user, that's a huge shift. Some people have moved to bricks. Yeah. To learn this whole new tool. And now there's another tool **[66:01]** uh which is which is on the horizon which is maybe even better for some people. And then wait, we have AI and then we have automation and then Chpt is is OpenAI is launching all kinds of crazy stuff and it's just so exhausting like our brain doesn't get rest enough and we are this is what I got from the books we are evolutionary not prepared for the amount of triggers we get today because life was simple for **[66:32]** hundreds of thousands of ears. This is not normal. And that's why another reason why I'm going to cut out all of these crazy animations in my uh videos. I'm going to keep it simple. No more overload overwhelm. Let's get to the core. WordPress core. No, no, no, no. >> You know how like in evolution it's like the fish like started to crawl out of water and started to evolve and have legs? >> We're like that fish with little tiny stubs, dude. Like flapping. But like **[67:04]** like we're not ready for this, dude. Like we just aren't, you know, and we're in the experiment stage. Like everybody alive right now >> that has been growing up and going through the whole social media thing and through this like they're going to look back a couple hundred years from now what we had to do and they had to like figure it out and evolve to it. You know, I heard a I don't know if it's called a parable or like what the proper name is for it. It's uh like a old uh **[67:36]** story like a folktale uh old Indian folktale that was that it goes like every person has two wolves inside of them. One wolf is full of fear, full of anger. >> The other wolf is full of courage and is brave. And then somebody asks, well, which wolf is stronger? And it's the one that you feed the most. And that I feel is where we see a lot of, myself **[68:08]** included, I fall down that trap, you know, I fall down that trap on Instagram. I fall down that consuming too much, watching videos and getting, you know, like getting upset at things. And even when it's not done consciously, when it's subconsciously coming in, we're taking it in. We're we're consuming. Consuming is eating. You know, it's just like eating food. You know, if you eat healthy food, you're going to feel better. If you eat, you know, junk, then you're going to feel like junk. And that's how the mind and **[68:39]** spirit go, you know. And again, this is where I start to fall into burnout. Where I start to notice it is when I start letting this stuff in, you know, when I start taking on too much, which I feel it because it's it it it's most prominent physically, but it gets to me spiritually and mentally as well. >> Yeah. Yeah. That that's what I meant. It's like we we believe we're in control of our mind and our emotions because we **[69:10]** have free will, but we are incredibly influenced uh by everything that happens around us. >> Yeah. >> We think we're robots, but we're not. >> Okay. Okay, I want to read something from the book because this a perfect moment. >> All right. >> Um, **[69:41]** our world has no limits on what it will demand of you. So, you must have limits on what you will give. >> Wait, can you read that one more time? I got to take that in. >> Yes. Our world has no limits on what it will demand from you. So you must have limits on what you will give. So basically this is not exactly the same as what we're talking about with the news. But but this is just about **[70:14]** okay what does the world want from you? It want or from from us it wants uh viewers and and or the YouTube algorithm. It wants more and more and more. Clients want more and more and more for less. Everybody wants more. But um we can't all we can't satisfy the world. Um and so it's never enough. It's never how it doesn't matter how hard you **[70:45]** try, you will never be valuable enough. And actually your value comes from setting limits because then people respect you. >> And this is this is a very hard one for me. I'm I'm I'm like feeling like almost I feel like a block in my throat when I say this. It's this this concept of creating limits to create respect. is incredibly **[71:17]** important because why would you respect someone that doesn't respect itself? >> We do this unconsciously. We judge people but some somehow we respect people that really defend themselves even if we don't agree with them. And so if if you would listen to to guys like Gary Vee uh for example and upload 10 times a day, it's like sure that's **[71:47]** probably what the algorithm wants. He has a point. But like um if that means that your quality will goes down and your life becomes horrible, then do I really respect this person? If this person never says no, you you were talking about saying no more, right? Do I respect this person? I've had this with clients a lot in the past. It's it's um it doesn't matter. With some clients, it **[72:18]** doesn't matter how much you give. They will always want more for less. And so until the moment you decide what you give is enough if uh yeah until that moment you will suffer. >> That's what the book says. Um oh here another one. Saying no to non-essential work when you are already running on full capacity **[72:49]** is essential. But this requires a vision on what to focus on. And I think that's what you were saying as well. If you can run after the algorithm or run after client money, but there's no end to it. Like what is enough? Is it 10K? Is it 15? Is it 20? Is it 30? It's like there's no end to it. And so if you if you feel like you're doing enough, that means you're on full capacity. And it doesn't matter. Maybe **[73:20]** in one year you can do more because your systems are better, you've learned more, whatever. But if you feel like it's enough, then it's enough. But we don't care enough about our own feelings according to the to the book. Wait, let me try to find another one. Uh I I wrote down the pages. Okay. So, um 2021 um **[73:50]** the more you believe that life is an experience and not a performance, the less stress and disappointment you will feel. For as long as you feel like life is a performance, you will wonder what the imaginary audience is thinking. You will curse yourself over every misstep and you will make decisions based on what things look like rather than what they feel like. Burnout by volume. So that's bu burnout **[74:20]** by having too much on your plate. plagues people who ask how much can I do instead of asking how much can I do well or how much can I do while still retaining time to do what makes me feel taken care of at the end of the day. So I don't know exercise, family, friends. So we we put work on this pedestal >> and and that that becomes our main goal **[74:53]** or or it becomes the amount of uploads or or or the algorithm or this money. These are all external things. But we don't ask the question, how do we feel about our lives, right? How do we feel about my own video? Would I watch my own video? Would I really like the website that I made? And for clients, you can always make what you want. I understand. But like you want to be happy with your life. And honestly, okay, now we're getting spiritual. I want to hear I'm just **[75:23]** talking now, so I want to hear your point of view as well, but we're getting spiritual. If you if you think from it from a from a Christian perspective, then one of the things that's one of the sentences that's most repeated throughout the the Bible is do not worry. And this has many uh you can apply that to many different things, but they in Christianity they basically say like trust on on God, but we what we want to do is we want to control life. **[75:56]** And sometimes when we just let go, things actually go better. And that's exactly what this Met Met Metavilia said in the video you sent me. Uh I think we should I can maybe pull it up, but he said that his channel actually started to grow once he gave up on the success. And that's literally what you said and and a few minutes ago you're like, "Fuck the algorithm. Like I don't want to do this anymore." And maybe this will this will show the real authentic Jeffrey and **[76:27]** the real authentic Reno on YouTube and this will actually connect with people instead of what we're trying to do right now. >> Yeah. You know, a couple things that we all got to figure out for ourselves. First one is what's our purpose? We got to have purpose. A lot of the times when somebody is struggling, you know, whether they're struggling trying to find clients or they're struggling in their business or whatever it is, often times **[76:59]** they're struggling because they just don't know what that purpose is. Like what direction are you going and why? What is the why behind all this? Mhm. >> And >> yeah, >> this is why it's important to do the inner work. Like business development is personal development. If you want to get good at building a web design business or any business, you got to get good at building yourself. You have to get in. Like it takes a level of self-awareness, self-honesty, humility, **[77:32]** and you know, some determination and grit and willingness to walk through some stuff to get to it. Right now, it's too easy to get distracted. It's too easy to fill it in. It's too easy to do the information overload or to just, you know, do the brain rot scrolling. It's too easy. And we see that going on in the world, you know, like >> we're seeing things that we never saw before. Like we are in a much different time right now. **[78:05]** >> But you know, you mentioned like where like where are we going? Like what is enough? And you know, how how many people have like sat down and thought about what they actually want? One things, one of the things that I do on a daily basis, I have a visualization practice. Like my morning, I love my morning routines. I am I do not believe in waking up at 4:30 a.m. and doing all this massive list. I think that's uh that's all clickbaity. **[78:37]** That's all not realistic because we got different circadium rhythms and stuff like that, >> you know, like we got to listen to our body. But I I've developed a consistent morning routine where I do, you know, wake up, have my coffee, I read, I connect with God, I pray, I meditate, and then I do visualization. And I want to visualize, you know, the person I want to be. I want to visualize like who I want to become. And that gives me an **[79:08]** idea of the work that I need to do to get there. Like I don't want to be a fat dude that is stuffing my face with pie at night because I'm stressed out. >> Like that disgusts me. And that's how I've been. That's how, you know, like I've managed burnout and stress with food and acting out and going back and forth to being in the gym all hardcore to going keto and then going to, you know, like the bakeries, you know what I mean? And 7-Eleven in Thailand, dude. $2 **[79:41]** in 7-Eleven in Thailand will get you a bag this big of just absolutely disgustingly delicious food. You know what I mean? Like it has not been easy. And uh but you know like what keeps me going and what kept me on path because I I I try and fail, try and fail, try and fail. And I've had so many day ones of I need to change this. I need to change this and then I would fail. But keep visualizing where I want **[80:14]** to go and knowing that's the man that I want to become and I can. You know, it gives that purpose and it gives that okay, let's keep going. And then it's just that constant self-worth. You know, you mentioned respect like we all want to be respected. We all want to feel confident and have self-esteem but you know the work needs to be done to respect ourselves first before we could even people might respect us and we might not even know it because we don't respect ourselves. At least that's how it was in my case. You know to build **[80:46]** self-esteem you have to do esteemable acts. And you know >> it's it's work. It's constant work. It's never going to stop. it it doesn't stop ever like that's a one guarantee out of everything I said tonight some could you know it's a lot of opinions and experience but the one thing that is a fact is it'll never stop you're either going to improve or you're going to fall back and that is the **[81:16]** journey now for my experience is constantly improve improve improve fail fall back but I'll fall back like two steps but take five steps forward and I think That's something that, you know, we should all be trying to do. >> Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I mean, that the it should start with with with your with your goal because without a goal, you are basically clueless and then you fall for anything. You know, like there's **[81:47]** this quote that says, if you don't stand for anything, you'll fall for everything. And and I think that just having money as a goal is just not good enough. It it's it's just not because there's no there's no end to it. Uh but it's also just empty because there are you know that there are millionaires, billionaires who are miserable. And so money doesn't solve all of the problems. And you know that when you're in the hospital, that's the moment when you realize it. Like you sent me that video **[82:19]** of the that podcaster that went through the Chris Williams. Chris Williams. Yeah. >> Yeah. Chris really like that's the moment you realize like health is the most important um at the end of the day. Uh because you can have a million you can have a million goals and dreams, but if you're sick, you only have one goal. [Music] >> Yeah. >> You you sent me a quote out of that video, dude. It it was like I felt it when you sent it, you know? I heard it **[82:51]** too when I watched it. I'm going to pull it up really quick. >> Okay. Okay. In the meantime, I'm going to pull up some more comments. >> Failure is a wise teacher. Yes, Robert, that is uh absolutely true. Success ain't forever. Yeah. I mean, success, but what then then I think that's the important question then is like how do you define success? Like you do that yourself. >> Yes. >> We got to understand it's the goal. I think goals are set wrong. Like goals **[83:22]** for business and goals for health and goals for life are great. They give uh they give a direction and that's it. But what really do we want in life? You know, and you got to be careful what you ask for because you might get it. And if you get it, you might not want it. That happened to me when I got that manager job at the Home Depot. >> I I you know, I thought that's exactly what I want. I got it. And it was not for me. But I tried to hold on to it at all expenses to my health, **[83:56]** life, everything. And it destroyed me until the point where, you know, I went through a breakdown over it. >> And that's happened to me in web design. My first agency I started, I I sent out a newsletter today sharing the story >> uh for my very first burnout in web design. And I was just going from a freelancer to an agency owner. And I got a new client. The client was actually like friends of friends, you know, like in the friend circle. And he was super successful, like millionaire, **[84:28]** multi-millionaire, you know, stupidly rich, built all these companies like investment and you know, like I looked up to him and I put him on a pedestal and you know, like he was just I wanted to be like him. I wanted that, you know, and I thought I did. And he was like, "Wait, we need a new auction website built." And uh, you know, it was like a 25k project and it was my first big one. >> And uh, I thought that's what I wanted. And, uh, yeah, it broke me. It It **[84:59]** destroyed me. It turned out to be a completely abusive >> client relationship. I had the money h hanging over my head. Like I don't know if has that ever happened to you or anybody listening to this if you've been freelancing you get a bad client they hang money over your head man that is the worst you know it just keeps you up at night it causes so much stress it is such a terrible thing for a person to do that so you know that's the reason why like I make sure whoever I hire whoever **[85:31]** I work even if they don't deliver I pay them right on time no matter what I just won't work with you again if you don't do good or deliver what you're supposed to, but no matter what, there's nobody out there that could say, "I did not pay them promptly on time, no matter what." Yeah. I mean, that's is very important. You need to protect yourself as well. You know, if if you with if we're talking about clients, like for sure, if I do clients, it's it's always going to be 50% prepayment before I even start, **[86:02]** not after I've delivered the design. Like I want to get paid before I do all of the work. >> Yeah. >> I mean, not all of it. We can do in phases, but I don't want to risk it because they can Yeah. Like you said, they can just use it as a as a how do you say that? Like blackmail. >> Yeah. Yeah. They they have all the leverage and they use that leverage against you. scope creep out the, you know, just like out the the woodworks. **[86:34]** Uh, somebody's asking about taking time off. Now, do you consistently take time off or do you wait until you catch burnout to take time off? How do you deal with that? >> Good question, Dennis. Uh, yeah. Uh, I have um I have to be honest. Um, I am not I have not been good with that. Um, when I Yeah, that's just the truth. When I **[87:05]** burned out like few months ago, I knew I was messed up and I needed a break. So, I did plan um a trip to a beautiful region here in Bali. And um uh but it was it's it was hard to schedule because when you are burned out, you you probably have a lot on your plate. Otherwise, you wouldn't be burned out. And so that's often the thing that people think like when you're not working anymore, like you're not you're **[87:36]** not lazy first of all, but it's also you you are you got into a burnout because things went too much. And so then when your body goes off, the to-do is still there. And that's [ __ ] because then you really have to tackle it and you have to I mean what I like to do then which is really effective is just grab the the hammer or the how do you say it the chainsaw or the axe and just like start cutting and cutting and cutting until it **[88:06]** feels better because it has just you know been too much. Um, and then I I I I plan um uh I planned a a week off uh to uh a nice place in Bali. Um but this was the first time I did that in uh in for myself. I think like in two three years and so I would take off on Christmas between Christmas. Nah, probably not. I I would take off on **[88:37]** Christmas because Christmas is a perfect excuse to not work. Um uh and sometimes I would go with my friends somewhere, but it would never be like, "Hey, I'm not going to do anything right now." Between Christmas and New Year, I would always open my laptop. And so, yeah, honestly, like a month or two months ago, it's the first time in many years that I've taken a week off and all I did was just like I went to a nice place with a middle middle of nature. I just I just like I woke up breakfast and I went **[89:07]** back back to bed until like because I was so tired until like noon uh or 1 or 2 and then I would just go somewhere for a coffee maybe eat something and then have have dinner and then just just go back and do I don't know a little meditation or read and my days would be would just be super empty and simple and nature I really need nature that's that's one of the thing that I it sounds cheesy but I I didn't Okay, this is also interesting thing that happens with lots of people **[89:38]** pleasers. At some point you don't even know what you like anymore. Like this is my my first therapist told this to me. She's like, "Do you even know what you like?" I was like, "I don't know." And she said, "I think you've lost yourself a little bit." And I was like, "No, no, you're wrong. Don't say that to me." Oh, she was right. I realized. So I I've come to realize a few things. I like to be in nature in not in my house. If I **[90:08]** sit on this desk, it goes wrong. I I cannot or if I open my laptop, it goes wrong. I need a separate computer or if I want to like relax. If I let's say I want to play a game, I would never install a game on my MacBook. Um, but best is nature. Moving my body, writing stuff down, calling a friend. Yeah. What else? **[90:38]** I'm still developing, I think. How do you do it? because I've heard you've been doing some some crazy stuff which is actually really cool but like with um what was it like sauna or ice bath or what what what was what is that about? >> Yeah. So, you know, after this last round, you know, this last bit and you know, it's been a first just a little bit of a backstory to the year, you know, like things have gotten better **[91:09]** with the burnouts. Like they were really bad before, but I learned how to manage them better. Uh but this year has it was a challenging year cuz first you know like I started the year got really into fitness but then I got injured got a double hernia had to go in through surgery and that put me off for like two months you know like I thought I'd just rest for a week and I'd be back to creating content and finishing up a course. No, it it it was not like that. And uh you know there are some setbacks **[91:41]** you know that I had that were unforeseen and that caused a lot of stress because I had the year planned out and I was on track man. I was just like dialed in and then these roadblocks like came in these setbacks came in and uh you know I did some back and forth but things got real bad and I did hit that burnout stage. same thing I was, you know, at the end of my Figma Mastery and uh you know how what goes into a course like that is not **[92:13]** like creating a video. >> Nope. >> A course is it it takes so much energy, time, and attention. Like it is it's fullon. >> Yes. >> And it's the most thing ever for me like that I've ever created. The course is is hardcore, >> dude. And I was like getting close to the end, but then something came up. We had a falling out with our landlord. We had to move. I thought we would have about like at least several weeks or a month or so. And things got so nasty it **[92:46]** turned into three days. >> Three days to move across the country. >> And uh like that that's where things broke down. Then after that, we moved here and I got COVID. I caught some nasty uh chest virus that was like worse than COVID. And well, that led to me going back and taking a step back, >> you know, after this one. I said, you know, like I knew I don't want to be sick. I don't want to feel this way. I want my health. I want energy. I want to **[93:17]** work on my relationships with the people around me, friendships. I want to enjoy my life because I know what I want. When I picture myself, I don't picture my future running a hundred million dollar company with a thousand employees. I I don't want that. No. >> To me, I just want to have freedom. I just want to have free. And freedom means doing what you want. >> Yeah. >> When you want, with who you want, how you want, you know, to me. And I love doing what I do. I love it. You know, like taking a break. I'm like **[93:49]** >> I want to >> build websites when I take a break because I enjoy it. Like I love doing what I do and that's the reason why like I am not a believer in work life and work >> personal life balance when you're doing what you love to do. Now if you're running a n if you're in a nineto-5 you got to cut that off because you're not getting paid when you leave. That's another thing. Uh so coming back to that I decided to do the 75 hard and I'm in **[94:21]** the middle. I just hit the halfway mark on it. >> Congratulations. >> And I I I uh tried first. Well, only congratulate me after the 75 days because I failed the first two times I did it, you know. I failed >> twice. And uh >> I guess I just kind of hit that bottom, you know, like spiritually and and physically, like health-wise where I just it's like I have to change this. So, I did change that up. I've been doing like ice baths and saunas every **[94:52]** single day almost almost every day. They're starting to progress more. Uh my routines are dude, it's been pretty dope, you know? Cut out social media. That's been >> just amazing. Like that is so transformative to get that nonsense away. Like there's no missing it or nothing. Uh >> yeah. >> Yeah. I'm kind of trilling off right now, but uh what was the question? **[95:22]** >> I don't I don't know. I don't know how we how we got there. It's It's fine. Let's just uh >> I don't know. This is like I'm usually in bed at this time. Like I go to bed at 8:30 so I could wake up early. It's the reason why I'm not doing live streams. But I'm good for tonight, dude. I'm good. Let it keep going until >> I'm also getting a little bit sleepy. So let's Oh, sorry. I interrupted you. No, it's all good. >> Okay. Um, no, I just wanted to say like I'm also getting a little bit sleepy. So, let's listen to our bodies and and **[95:54]** let's let's ask answer few more questions and then like end it. Uh, I think it's nice if we end it before the the two hours. Um, hey, I remembered where I was going. >> All right. Feel free sum it up. Uh basically like I'm in the zone where I look at it like I have two jobs in life you know one job is to take care you know of what **[96:26]** I need to take care of like be productive live my purpose you know like however that form looks but the other job is to take care of myself to work out to exercise to eat healthy to spend time with friends, you know, when I'm overloaded, like, you know, today, uh, I have a lot going on, but, you know, a friend want to go have coffee. Let's go have coffee, you know, because at the end of the day, we have to work. I have to work on what's most important in life because I have to remember why I'm doing **[96:57]** this. So, yeah, come to that realization, there's two jobs that I need to constantly be working on. >> I see. Yeah. I I think that's what I personally took away from this live stream. Uh is that it's it's really I should really spend some time like now to really think about that goal like what are these values that you want to work from and how do you want your life to be and and your **[97:28]** business you know and then just design it around it. Um I I okay I read one important thing in the in the book that that connects to this which I discovered about myself is that I'm actually having fear that opportunities might not come might or or that opportunities are scarce. So when a new big money opportunity presents itself, whether that's a website project or you know something on YouTube, then **[98:00]** it's it's like you want to grab it. Uh even if you already have too much on your plate. I mean that's what happens to me. Um because I I often feel like oh this is this is an opportunity I have to take it otherwise it will not come back. But like our industry is changing so much. It is It is just a very limiting mindset to think that new opportunities will not present itself. >> Um so I in the book it says stop **[98:34]** thinking of success and opportunities as a scarce resource that will disappear forever. Um often overachievers are smart enough to see new ones anyways. And when you're tired, you can't actually see new opportunities anyways. And so we we grab all of them and then we get tired and then we don't see the new opportunities. And so we're creating our own reality almost or maybe that's how it works. I don't know. Um **[99:06]** but we this is also about trust. You know, we should trust that there's a new opportunity coming and >> Yeah. Yeah. If you live your life with trust, it's a lot more peaceful. But I think we do a lot of stuff out of fear. Um fear of not getting a new opportunity, whether that's a new job or a new project or yeah, a new video, you know, for us that **[99:37]** that that does well. But you cannot really control it. And and I think after now doing 12 years of YouTube, I am a little bit better at predicting which video goes viral. But sometimes I still have no idea. Like I I did like I did like a video on a client's project, a difficult client project, and it got like 60k views in like a few weeks. And I did not plan for that. I was just like, "Hey, this is a video I want to share about something. I think it's way too complex for people to be **[100:09]** interesting. I thought it would get like two threek views and and that that one blew up. And then I had an automation and it did super bad. And so I've been doing YouTube for 12 years. I've worked at a YouTube agency uh in actually that was my first job in in in in Amsterdam. I worked with actually people that worked at YouTube. I learned from the best and I still cannot predict what which video goes viral and so **[100:40]** that's also something I want to let go completely. Um new opportunities will will present itself and I think we should trust that it will be all right. Um yeah, man. I I think that's that's my goal for next year, trusting more instead of trying to control. >> Yeah. You know, I just finished his book uh the psychology of money. And in it, he said that, you know, he's talking **[101:11]** between the pessimistic and the optimistic mindset where if you're consuming a lot of negativity that you're often just seeing the problems and that's where fear come in. But if you're consuming uh the optimism, you know, good stuff like quality stuff, then instead of seeing the problems, you're going to start seeing the opportunities and possibilities. And you know, a lot of people have mentioned inside of the chats about AI and you know how we feel and there's a lot of fear around it. Yes. And like I **[101:43]** don't I have zero fear over AI. Like well I I do think that someday it'll kill us all but that's something else completely >> just a little fear >> that I'm I'm gonna be gone by then you know but I'm talking about like right now like taking our jobs you know the web design stuff. I I don't I see nothing but opportunity. Like we are in the most opportunistic time right now. >> Yeah. those of us who figured out how to build websites could figure out how to do other stuff. Like if you sat down and **[102:15]** you taken the time to figure this out, you have that within yourself to figure out how to create workflows, how to create agents, how to like stay on top of this. But right now so many are in fear at the time when there's the most opportunity because we are in the biggest shift in technology since like I think from web web one to web two or something agree like since they're able to like actually >> yeah like do stuff on there. This is the **[102:46]** biggest shift now back then. Look at what happened in the biggest shift. A lot of people got successful because they saw the opportunity and they jumped on it. And yeah, for anybody asking about that with the AI, my my suggestion is to flip the mindset around. Start focusing on the possibilities. And if you can't right now, you got to do the work. The work is daily. It it's a daily practice and you got to intentionally work on that. But if you keep doing it **[103:17]** every day, you're going to see 20, 30, 40 days goes by and you're going to start to see the mind changing because, you know, you're rewiring [ __ ] up in here. That's what the whole mindset shift really is, is you know, just re re- reprogramming and we got to constantly reprogram ourselves. >> Okay. Um, I want to also reply to this. By the way, your mindset's very strong, very beautiful and admirable about this topic. That's uh I think that's pretty **[103:47]** rare in AI. So, I want to just say that. Uh that's uh I think everybody can learn something from this positive mindset that Jeffrey has about this. Uh I want to say honestly that I had fear uh when um you know these tools like lovable and bold came out. I was like, "Oh my goodness, what is going to happen to our industry?" And um I play played around with it. I I **[104:19]** saw a lot of resistance as well from the market. Me people didn't didn't actually there was not a lot of interest from WordPress people. Um but I saw that I saw the danger. But the more I played around with it, the more I also started to realize that it's it's not so dangerous because it's still way too hard to figure out for clients themselves. And there's so many things that they should know about them their own company, about uh about workflow, **[104:49]** about creative projects, uh about possibilities. They they will not be able to figure it out by themselves. Um but it is exhausting to trying to figure out all of these AI tools. >> And so, yeah, I'm thinking >> to make a video about what I know now about AI. I hope it's not going to be embarrassing, but just to to give some perspective because I think I have a **[105:20]** good view about it now. But the problem with AI is that there there are companies putting AI after their name and then it it feels like a new AI. But in in short there's only a few large language models which you can count I think on one hand from the big companies and then there come then and then there's companies called rappers which basically use that LLM that large language model to create a type of service so s uh software and that's **[105:52]** basically all there is once you see those connections and you see that some companies are just using these models to do something then yeah you it it doesn't become as overwhelming. So I'm thinking to make a video about that. Um automation though that's a different kind of thing which I think you should watch. Uh I made a video or we both made a video about a very sim similar thing. Uh >> same not on purpose. >> Same day not on purpose now. **[106:22]** So, um, yeah, I I would say don't get don't think that all of these companies are doing something completely different because AI is in their name. It's very similar what what often what they're doing. Uh, and many of them are also copying each other. So, that's just what I wanted to say about that. Yeah, >> absolutely. They're all the same, dude. Like, you know, I gave up on that. like you know mentioned you know like you said and some others in the chat said you know trying to keep up with everything is exhausting and it will be if anybody tries to keep up with **[106:52]** everything you're going to get exhausted it's impossible and you know that's the reason I I caught that I saw it and I realized >> look it bolt repletable figma make these are all doing the same exact things and there's like a few different types really like that's one type, the app builder. Then you got the other type which is, you know, large language models, the big guys. But and then now, you know, I I discovered a new **[107:23]** type which I have a video that I just launched 48 minutes ago. So, you know, for everybody, >> you can go check it out. But it was, you know, the AI browser. I felt that was a bit different and unique because, >> you know, I was able to actually do work in a WordPress website with the browser. But look at the thing is we we're all going to have to change. >> Yeah, for sure. >> And that's the one thing we just got to like accept like, okay, uh just be ready to change and roll. Look for those **[107:54]** opportunities. This is this is a time where we could find it. Okay. I I I see uh >> I'm also doing the same. Trying to stay awake right now, trying to move. >> Yeah, we're going to end it soon. We're going to end it soon. I just want to answer a few more questions and then we're just going to go. Yeah. So, let's try to answer them shortly because we haven't interacted a lot and then we're just going to end it. Um, just want to reply to this one. Robert says, "AI isn't smart. It still needs a human in control. I see it as just a tool. It's always good to be proficient." Yes. So, **[108:25]** Robert, uh I think that many of the people believe uh that AI is actually smart, but there was a great research paper um from Apple that basically showed uh that AI isn't actually reasoning. It just looks like it's reasoning. Um, and that's because it's using words and we use words to reason, but there's no actual reasoning happening behind the **[108:55]** scenes. And they they did this whole research and that's probably the reason why Apple Intelligence isn't here yet fully. Uh, because they probably bought into the hype a little bit too much themselves. But the more research coming out right now, the more we're starting to understand what AI truly is. And some people call it a glorified word prediction machine. And that's the one that I like. Um I I think AI is amazing. It's it's it's the best invention in the last **[109:28]** I don't know 20 years. Uh since since the iPhone, I think uh since the mobile phone, I should say. Uh but um yeah, it's absolutely not as great as some people want to believe. And you can you can easily prove that by the fact that Chpt agrees with everything you say. >> Oh yeah, I can I can make it I can make it do whatever I want. Yeah. Okay. Um **[109:58]** Oh, Lex is also here. Uh sup y'all. Yes, AI is changing things so fast. at work we had a session to see where the future of marketing perhaps is not creating anymore what yeah I mean for sure things are are changing fast but don't get too scared and obsessed about AI that's just I think what we want to say um I will erase the low skill repetitive work yeah for sure but it amplifies amplifies that's a nice word **[110:29]** uh creative strategic designers you know to use yeah so I've had this discussion yesterday uh or a discussion was not really a discussion. I agreed with that that person. But the the the thing that AI is really good at is predicting um and not predicting the future. That's where it's actually really bad at because it's using data that already exists. And yes, you could argue that you can predict the future by looking at the past and there's definitely some truth to that. But pattern recognition, **[111:03]** that's what AI is good at. It can look at huge amount of data and then see patterns and then based on those patterns predict what the next action is going to be. And therefore repetitive work like factory work will be replaced. And so I just want to put it out there that I think it's wrong that people say that many people said that AI came for the creative jobs first. It didn't. AI came for the for the repetitive work **[111:35]** first because it's a pattern recognition machine, but it hasn't been implemented in the repetitive work fields yet. Because for example in factories, we need robots. Okay? Okay. And robots are now starting to become a thing. Uh but once they put that AI, which we already have today, which is CHIP T5, for example, inside of a robot, then you can run a warehouse basically. And so my point of view is that AI **[112:06]** didn't replace creative jobs at all because it cannot reason and reasoning is well what we do all the time as creatives. Um it's yeah it's a it's a pattern recognition machine and what we do we create kind of order from this from the chaos and the chaos is the creative process. So that's just what I wanted to to say. So I think Alan is right. It replaces lowkilled repetitive work but us no we're not going to be **[112:39]** replaced anytime soon. Would you agree Jeffrey with me with my little rant? >> Yeah, my short answer. Yeah. >> Uh Akmed uh creates has a good question. >> Uh let's see. Uh how do you manage coaching metorship >> and running an agency working on client project? Do you delegate or limit how much project you take on balance the other parts of the business? Okay. Yeah. **[113:09]** You want to take this one? Sure. Uh I stick to a rule of three. So you know where I really got burned out before in the past is when I just try to do too many big things. You know, running a community, building a channel, creating courses, uh doing coaching and mentorship and running an agency, taking on clients, new client calls. These things stacked up too much. And I found that I had to cut things and I had to learn how to say no. So that is first **[113:42]** off how I manage it. And I I believe in the rule of three. I think there's something uh that's in our DNA about the threes. You know there's it goes all the way back in history. But when I look at my big three which I create these are my focuses. If it doesn't fall within the place then I cannot spend time and energy there. And then another thing for delegation, I have a system in to-d doist. It's an ABC system. So when I **[114:12]** create my task, first I do give a priority. Priority one, two, three. But then I give it a tag. If it is an A tag, that means only I could do it. If it is a B tag, that means I could do it. It's still something that, you know, is important that I could do, but it's something that it would be great to delegate eventually. And if it is a C tag, it means I have no business touching this. And if I don't have anybody to delegate it to, it just gets deleted. **[114:42]** >> I gave up. I I started to learn how to just cut things out. And that has been a game changer, you know. And then I did, you know, like read the book like uh uh what is it? The Dan Martell's book, Buy Back Your Time. Anybody running an agency, and I know Matt in the chat, he's gonna laugh because I'm always recommending this book, but anybody running an agency or freelancing, eventually you're going to have to delegate and bring people on. One of the things I didn't know first when I **[115:12]** started my agency was how to hire and who to hire. Nobody really taught that for us in the creative industry. Dan Martell in his book, Buy Back Your Time, gives you the perfect framework to doing it. And he's a developer. he started his company developing building software. Uh so I definitely recommend checking that out. I think that's a that's a nice uh way that's there was a good question to uh to end it with. **[115:44]** Um, yeah, if you're also okay, Jeffrey, if you don't want to uh expand a little bit more, then I think uh we can uh we can end it here. Um, I think that well, personally, I got I wrote a few things down uh which I want to do and um yeah, I I I think many people enjoyed it. There were more people in this stream. people were interacting. **[116:15]** Um there's almost 50 people watching now which is nice. So uh we are even though we're already streaming for quite some time. How how did you like it Jeffrey? Oh man. Yeah this is great. Like uh first I appreciate you know putting this you putting this together having me on you know thank you for opening up this space. I believe that you know it it helps and it should be something that is discussed. Too many people are by themselves dealing with this alone. Yes. **[116:46]** You know stuffing it down. And you have a community on circle. I have a community on circle. There are spaces for everybody here that is listening to join and not be alone and connect. And this is why I connect with you so well, you know, because I feel like we're like I don't know. I feel like I could talk openly, you know, and we for me, I know there are people that I talk to I don't feel like I could open up, you know, and I really like that that, **[117:16]** you know, I could open up, get vulnerable, get real, talk about what's really going on. And >> I found that when I do that, it helps others open up as well. So, you know, I hope that's what uh others, everybody that's here, thank you for being here, and I hope you could take that away. Yeah, I think it's very important on social media these days. Like we talked about all the negative sides of social media and and one of the huge negative sides. I don't want to open up a a new **[117:46]** topic now, but I think one of the negative sides of social media is that we're we many people only show the bright side, the positive sides. And you know, sometimes I just want to talk about a topic like this. It's uh it's very important. So uh yeah, you also thank you for opening up and I'm happy that I created a safe enough place to uh to open up. So uh yeah um I think the people enjoyed it. Uh Matt is saying it's a it's good to talk. Yes, Matt. Absolutely. Talking helps processing **[118:18]** stuff in life. Exactly. Exactly. There's enough suffering in this world. But it's not only the places where things go really wrong. We also have our problems and suffering and those are also worth talking about, right? >> Yeah. It's life and we're here to help each other, you know. We don't do this alone. I didn't get to where I'm at alone. No. >> You know, >> and often the problems are so similar. Like the more the more I read books, I'm like, how do you know me? **[118:49]** >> Right. >> Oh, yeah. Okay. Oh, Sakar was also here in the chat from UI. >> All right. Um, so, uh, yeah, let's, uh, let's end it here. It's a one minute before two hours, so I want to click it off before it's two hours, so it looks good. >> Yeah, let's let's do it. Okay. Uh, again, thank you, Jeffrey. Thank you everybody in the chat. Uh, I know people have been watching, but not always commenting. That's also fine. I know you're watching. And, um, **[119:22]** uh, yeah, until next week. I'm probably going to do some uh some AI stuff next week because there's some huge news uh from Bolt. So, I'm probably going to go there. I'm not sure yet. We'll see. For now, yeah. Thanks again. Thank you, Jeffrey. And we'll see each other next week. >> Sounds good. Thank you. >> Okay. See you.