Defining Your Role Before Someone Else Does  ## Metadata - Author: [[Community Pulse]] - Full Title: Defining Your Role Before Someone Else Does - Category: #podcasts - URL: https://share.snipd.com/episode/a406c310-df1a-4731-90b6-463ffb30a71d ## Document Notes ## Highlights - **Start by Understanding Before Advising** - When joining a company, spend time asking questions to understand your peers and their challenges. - Then present your expertise through frameworks and tailored solutions rather than just stating credentials. Transcript: Speaker 1 Yeah. This topic is very near and dear to my heart because I think it's so crucial, right? There's really interesting studies that people base how they interact with you on their first interaction or the first five minutes in their interaction with you. You can counteract that, but that initial interaction is super crucial. And frankly, when I was at Reddit, I don't think I did a great job at this. And I think I spent several years trying to get people to take me more seriously. And so when I came into HubSpot about a year ago, it was really important to me that I wanted to make sure to start things on the right foot. That said, I was coming into some established community programs of very established company, really smart people. And so I was trying to find the balance because I didn't want to come in and say, I know better than all of you, get out of the way. And in fact, that's what I learned later is a lot of people who join from outside HubSpot come in and say that, and people kind of immediately roll their eyes. They're like, you don't know better than us. And so what I started with and what I would recommend for other people is asking questions. I got a lot of positive feedback that my first meetings with people, it wasn't me pitching things. It was me stating my bona fides and talking a little bit about what I want to do here at a high level, but then asking a ton of questions and trying to understand what these teams are doing. And I both legitimately wanted to know it was useful for me, but also that makes the conversation feel about them. Then what I did is I came back a month later, having kind of gathered all this information and said, okay, here is what I've heard from talking to everyone here. Here are the challenges. Now, let me tell you about community. Here's what community is. Here's how community can help. And here's how I think it slots in. And so what that did for people is their first interaction with me was, okay, this person actually cares about what I do. He's not just all about himself. And then the second interaction was, oh, he really understands the problems we're trying to solve here and look at this kind of framework and expertise he's bringing in. And, you know, that wasn't me just saying, like, trust me, I know a community, but it was really saying, hey, here's a definition of community. Here's the three ways community can help a business. And here's, you know, five examples of how that works. And then here's how I think this can apply here. And it was something I worked really hard at because I wanted to make sure to start on the right foot. I knew that, you know, a 7,000 person company. It was very easy for me to just get lost in the shuffle and dismissed. And I think that got me really far. And so that would be my recommendation is just take that time, understand your peers, come back and repeat back to them what they said, and then use kind of frameworks rather than just Trust me. ([Time 0:02:47](https://share.snipd.com/snip/26a62cd8-6b79-4e15-a3c8-9d95ad3829ac)) - **Research and Influence During Interview** - Do your research before joining and come with ideas about the company and role. - Ask about priorities and responsibilities during interviews to gauge fit and influence expectations. Transcript: Speaker 2 Yeah, I like to do a lot of this before even joining the company. I find that makes my life just so much easier. Like during that interview process, right? I love when I'm able to convince those who have interviewed me, whether that be the person who's hiring me or peers or even folks who will report to me. But I love to convince them that, you know, I have a level of expertise then and establish that trust before I even start, right? And what I found is they then do a lot of work internally before I even get there. They've told everyone like, what a great hire they've made. And I noticed that that really makes a difference once you come on board, you know, people already know that you're an expert. They're looking to you to do your thing and come in, shake things up for the better. So they tend to give that space for you to do so. And speaking on doing your thing. So this is something that I also like to establish during the interview process. Like I'm paying attention to the job work, obviously, with types of activities. Does it say that you and your team will be responsible for it, right? Does that fit your definition of the type of task a dev rel team should be doing, right? These are early signs that let you know how the company views developer relations. I also asked for priorities, what's expected and say like the first 90 days, right? This lets you know if they even know what they want. Sometimes they don't. And I think that's where a lot of what Evan said comes into play where you'll go in and kind of ask a lot of questions and get a sense of the land and the challenges and the problems and then Come up with solutions collaboratively. But if they do know what they want, does that match what you feel top priority should be, right? ([Time 0:05:31](https://share.snipd.com/snip/2a062b48-0dc4-4cd0-bef0-9f42f8c797ca)) - **Build Credibility Through Execution** - Maintain credibility by executing ideas and showing results, even if imperfect. - Collaborate openly with stakeholders, sharing wins and failures authentically for continuous improvement. Transcript: Speaker 2 The role? I'm a big fan of execution. I found that many people have a lot of great plans and visions, but there's a very small subset of that number that are able to follow through and execute on these ideas. So it's really easy to maintain credibility when you're a doer and you're actually showing results. And that doesn't mean you're knocking everything out of the park, right? You might fail. Some things might not be a hit, but that's okay. You're at least doing something. You're trying things out. I like to also be collaborative with other stakeholders within the company and kind of include them in ideas that I have here. Their ideas incorporate them. Or say, you know, we totally bombed this. Are there any insights or any ideas others might have to improve it? ([Time 0:09:39](https://share.snipd.com/snip/ef31ed51-87e0-4f46-a763-aeec0d442abc)) - **Communicate Progress Early and Often** - When building community, map milestones and progress steps clearly to stakeholders. - Communicate ongoing efforts to prevent misconceptions about inactivity and to show a clear path to success. Transcript: Speaker 1 Yeah, agree with all of that. I think to cover, you know, before you're actually delivering on things because I agree that the best way to maintain relevance is delivering. But when you're in that building phase because communities take time, one thing that I did recently is just give people kind of a map of like, here are the steps before this is kind of scaled And delivering value. So for us, you know, we were building these communities. We wanted to do a whole series of them. And so I created this spreadsheet that's like, first we need to show that people are interested in this. Great. We've done that. Now we need to show we can replicate it. So we're going to go try and do this in another location and see how that goes. Then we build a playbook. And then from there, we can scale this. And that just helps people see like, okay, before the results come, this person isn't just messing around. They are doing something and they have a clear plan for how to get there because people fill in the gaps. ([Time 0:10:43](https://share.snipd.com/snip/9ad6330b-561f-4a49-9591-a3485c00c5bb)) - **Use Tools to Defend Team's Focus** - Use project management tools to track DevRel goals and prove your team's value. - Refer stakeholders to priorities to justify requests and protect your team's focus. Transcript: Speaker 2 Angie. Yeah, you're absolutely right. People do have their own definitions of what things should be done. It was funny, like even the role that I'm in now when I first started the project readiness wasn't there, but folks felt I should be doing like X, Y, and Z, and it just was not time for that. My division is only two years old. We operate as a scrappy startup, so it's all hands on deck. And when you're in that sort of environment, it's really easy for folks to kind of just pull you in your team and to myriad of things that don't necessarily fall under your umbrella, right? And you're right. You want to be helpful. You want to do what needs to be done. However, we have our own goals that we're trying to reach in our own tactics. But that's a great way to do it. So what I found is that having those goals laid out as task and like a project management tool really helps. And like I said, where scrappy startup. So that's not necessarily something you would expect from a very small But it really serves as proof that DevRel isn't just out here twiddling our thumbs, like waiting for something To do. So when I do get requests from other teams or stakeholders, I can point them to like our project management board and we can then have a discussion on priorities, right? We don't mind hoping now, but we're right in the middle of XYZ, which is desperately needed, you know. ([Time 0:12:27](https://share.snipd.com/snip/c200e1ed-3b45-4d38-9146-41c1cbec66bc)) - **Define Your Domain Clearly** - Define core concepts like community clearly and share these definitions with stakeholders. - This helps align expectations and clarifies what your team is responsible for. Transcript: Speaker 1 I literally had a definition of community in there. And I won't take credit for that. I wrote a draft to the presentation and I ran it by Erica Cool. And she was like, you were assuming people know what the hell you're talking about. I was like, okay, that's fair. Yes, I live community. I've been doing it for 15 years. All these things make sense to me. And so really dialed it back to literally having a definition of what community is at the start. And I emphasized interaction as part of that because we see community get used to describe the newsletters and the like. And I wouldn't have predicted it, but so many people were like, this is so helpful. Oh my God. Now I get community. Okay. ([Time 0:14:31](https://share.snipd.com/snip/813a62a9-9bfb-4b93-acfa-5302ec9308b2)) - **Test Ideas Before Full Commitment** - When stakeholders push new priorities, propose low-risk tests or pilots first. - Let stakeholders experience challenges firsthand to help them understand why some requests don’t fit. Transcript: Speaker 3 Evan, you want to start us off here? Speaker 1 Yeah, I think it's such a tricky balance. I think to the previous question, you know, you don't want to be so defensive of your team's time that you block yourself off from opportunities. And, you know, there was a period of my career where I was like the no guy and people like Evan will never say yes to that. And I realized like, oh, I'm really like, I'm blocking myself here. I'm shutting my own career progression down. And so, you know, I think there's a couple of tactics. You know, if you think it could actually be worthwhile. One thing I'm a huge fan of is do a small test, do a minimum viable community, you know, host an event, or we did a month long community where we said, hey, this community is going to be around For a month. You're all going to learn together. Then we're going to shut it down so that nobody was super upset when it was done. It gives you a way to just kind of like dip your toe in, see what results you get. That gives you a sense of should we invest more in this is this worthwhile and we've had some where we're like, oh my God, yes, okay, poor fuel on that and some where we're like, that didn't Work and maybe we'll revisit it at some point, but there's the data. And then I think if you get an idea that is truly like, this is not great. And not not my, you know, what I should do with my time. You should certainly try to directly say no. If you can't, one thing that I found is kind of let that team that is interested and have do the initial integration. I it's not quite community or DevRel, but I was on a team where the sales people wanted us to be customer service reps for the people in our marketplace. So basically, if you were being the customer service rep for the Airbnb host and telling people like, here's how to find the key. I'm like the local restaurants. And I let that person who is pushing this narrative. I said, okay, well, let's do a discovery call with one of these customers. And let's see what all the details are that we're going to need to know to be their customer service rep. And like five minutes into the call, the person been like, yeah, well, we're open Monday through Friday except some Tuesdays and you know you can come in eight to five. Sometimes we leave early. We've got whatever's on the menu today, but it's not always the same. And then through their eyes just widened and the stakeholder realized like there's no way we can do this. And it people just learn better, experiencing it themselves. You want them to listen to you, but they listen themselves much better and there's good research around that. There is a fascinating study where somebody told one group of smokers here's the side effects, and then the other group of smokers read the side effects allowed. And then the other group of smokers that read it themselves was less likely to smoke because it came out of their mouth. The same words. Super frustrating, but it works. And so at Reddit, one of the things we did as an exchange program where we sent product managers into actually be moderators in communities. And everyone came out saying the things I had been telling them for years as if they were a new discovery drove me crazy, but it was effective. And so I think that's one really rich vein is like, let people actually get in there and discover it themselves. ([Time 0:20:08](https://share.snipd.com/snip/e0d2b479-a47c-4b42-b9e8-4a06a7688764)) - **Balance Flexibility With Focus** - Sometimes compromise on requests if it benefits business and community needs. - Redirect out-of-scope requests to other teams better suited to handle them. Transcript: Speaker 5 Yeah, you can't be super steadfast. You can't be super bullish on things. But sometimes you do need to take a stand. But when we're moving into new positions or we're moving into uncharted territory. I mean, this is technology that we're talking about. So we're always pushing the envelope of what is known and what is unknown and just breaking and discovering those barriers. And for someone who is new position where they are one don't have a long track record to draw upon or a new manager or team lead, or they're extremely new to the space. What, what, what advice would you give them in order to keep them like grounded or for them to make sure that they don't have some of that anxiety about whether or not they're making or Doing the right thing. If you had to pick one thing, what would it be? And let's, let's start with you. Speaker 1 I think it's that you're there to serve the organization, which doesn't mean serve every single person in the organization, but you're there to deliver results for them. You're not there to build community. You're built there to build community that drives results for them. I think if you can find what the North Star is either for the company or for for the larger org you're part of and say that is what I'm going to do. You're going to get the investment. You're going to get the support. And that's also very defensible because it's not you saying, I don't want to do that work. It's you saying the organization has said this thing is the most important and I'm trying to execute on that. Do you disagree with the organization and nobody's going to say no, the organization is wrong. I'm more important. They'll happily disagree with you about whose project is more important, but that kind of North Star, I think is super powerful and just, you know, paves the path and I don't want to badmuff Other people so many times I have not done this in my past. And people are like, well, okay, you're just pushing your thing and I'm going to push my thing and we're just going to push against each other. And when we oriented it around what are we both trying to do things that a lot easier. Speaker 3 That's great. Speaker 5 Love that. Yes, Angie, what would you do? Speaker 2 What advice would you give? So I think I agree with a lot with what Evan said, I don't have much to add to that, but I want to go back to that execution part. What I found is like, once you really start getting things done and folks are seeing results like the tone just kind of changes right there like, okay, clearly they know what they're Doing. And they kind of get out of your hair. And you have examples to point to like this is the type of work that we do, you know, and it has this r that's really important and beneficial for the business. Speaker 3 I love that. And I think the other thing that I usually keep in mind for my team as well is if there's people making requests of us that aren't a good fit for us, it's probably a good fit for someone else, Right? It might be something else that another team can do. And so building those relationships, going back to what we were talking about at the very beginning, building those relationships with the proper stakeholders, knowing what other Teams are responsible for, let's you be able to kind of draw those lines more specifically and be able to say, oh, hey, we can't do this right now because it doesn't line up with our goals Or priorities, what we're focused on, but this team might be able to take that on or be able to handle those, those things, which is awesome. ([Time 0:24:23](https://share.snipd.com/snip/0086edb7-4b17-409a-a536-d388620417f0)) - **Align With Organization's North Star** - Align your work with the organization's North Star to gain investment and defend priorities. - Focus on delivering results for organizational goals, not personal agendas. Transcript: Speaker 5 If you had to pick one thing, what would it be? And let's, let's start with you. Speaker 1 I think it's that you're there to serve the organization, which doesn't mean serve every single person in the organization, but you're there to deliver results for them. You're not there to build community. You're built there to build community that drives results for them. I think if you can find what the North Star is either for the company or for for the larger org you're part of and say that is what I'm going to do. You're going to get the investment. You're going to get the support. And that's also very defensible because it's not you saying, I don't want to do that work. It's you saying the organization has said this thing is the most important and I'm trying to execute on that. Do you disagree with the organization and nobody's going to say no, the organization is wrong. I'm more important. They'll happily disagree with you about whose project is more important, but that kind of North Star, I think is super powerful and just, you know, paves the path and I don't want to badmuff Other people so many times I have not done this in my past. And people are like, well, okay, you're just pushing your thing and I'm going to push my thing and we're just going to push against each other. And when we oriented it around what are we both trying to do things that a lot easier. ([Time 0:25:14](https://share.snipd.com/snip/e4489d34-04d1-4e81-af2f-eb068d434e25)) - **Let Results Speak for You** - Deliver visible results to maintain credibility and reduce interference. - Successful execution gives you proof points to defend your team's work and priorities. Transcript: Speaker 3 That's great. Speaker 5 Love that. Yes, Angie, what would you do? Speaker 2 What advice would you give? So I think I agree with a lot with what Evan said, I don't have much to add to that, but I want to go back to that execution part. What I found is like, once you really start getting things done and folks are seeing results like the tone just kind of changes right there like, okay, clearly they know what they're Doing. And they kind of get out of your hair. And you have examples to point to like this is the type of work that we do, you know, and it has this r that's really important and beneficial for the business. ([Time 0:26:36](https://share.snipd.com/snip/ca636c16-bd84-4669-89b0-40a4022811e6))