EP114 Jim Hankins Introduces CribOps to Agencies

EP114 Jim Hankins Introduces CribOps to Agencies 🔗 **Source:** [EP114 Jim Hankins Introduces CribOps to Agencies](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTgxilV992U) > [!note]+ Document Notes > tags: [agency-hosting, web-development, wordpress] > author: Mañana Nomas > source: YouTube > reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTgxilV992U > date created: 2024-12-27 19:30 > > # 🏷️ Title: EP114 Jim Hankins Introduces CribOps to Agencies >  ## 🧰 Action Inbox - [H1] Evaluate CribOps for multi-site agency hosting needs — fault-tolerant infrastructure with managed databases #hosting - [H2] Research object caching benefits for dynamic sites — performance without page cache conflicts #performance - [H3] Consider immutable WordPress deployments — eliminate plugin update risks #security ## 🧭 Table of Contents - [📝 Summary](#-summary) - [📖 Main Content](#-main-content) - [🗒️ Notes](#️-notes) - [📚 References](#-references) - [🗣️ Paraphrase](#️-paraphrase) - [📰 Newsletter](#-newsletter) - [✅ Action Items](#-action-items) - [🧪 Hypotheses](#-hypotheses) - [📊 Methodology](#-methodology) - [❓ Questions](#-questions) - [🔮 Future Research](#-future-research) - [💡 Implications](#-implications) - [🧠 Learning Styles Assessment](#-learning-styles-assessment) - [📊 Accessibility Assessment](#-accessibility-assessment) - [🌍 DEIB Assessment](#-deib-assessment) - [✅ Logical Validity](#-logical-validity) - [🛡️ DARVO Analysis](#-darvo-analysis) - [🎯 Conclusion](#-conclusion) ### 🔗 References - [CribOps Website](https://cribops.com) - [Lerty AI](https://lerty.ai) ## 📝 Summary - Jim Hankins, owner of Cloud Bedrock agency, introduces CribOps - an agency-focused hosting platform - Born from frustration with existing hosts lacking fault tolerance and proper caching - Supports multiple hosting types beyond WordPress with shared managed resources - Built-in object caching, managed databases, and immutable deployment options - Agency-only pricing model similar to Kinsta but includes features others charge extra for ## 📖 Main Content CribOps emerges from real agency pain points around hosting limitations, single points of failure, and the need to support diverse client requirements beyond WordPress. Jim's background in enterprise IT and emergency response systems drives the platform's focus on fault tolerance and uptime. The platform addresses common agency challenges: managing multiple hosting accounts, dealing with plugin conflicts from caching layers, and supporting clients who want modern static sites alongside traditional WordPress. By providing managed databases, automatic object caching, and container-based resource allocation, CribOps aims to reduce support tickets and improve reliability. The agency-only model reflects a recognition that end users and agencies have different needs - agencies need operational control and multi-tenant management while end users typically want simplicity. ## 🗒️ Notes #### ⏱️ [00:00](https://youtu.be/nTgxilV992U?t=0) — [H1] Introduction and Background - Key idea: Jim Hankins owns Cloud Bedrock agency and has enterprise IT background - Evidence: "Worked for companies like Cisco... built infrastructure that received the SOS" #### ⏱️ [03:45](https://youtu.be/nTgxilV992U?t=225) — [H2] The Problem with Current Hosting - Key idea: Existing hosts don't provide enough access for troubleshooting - Evidence: "Either the hosting provider didn't provide me enough access so I had to open a ticket" #### ⏱️ [06:20](https://youtu.be/nTgxilV992U?t=380) — [H2] Market Consolidation Driving Need - Key idea: Agencies need to support more than just WordPress now - Evidence: "Client demands where they're starting to see I want to have this or that" #### ⏱️ [08:15](https://youtu.be/nTgxilV992U?t=495) — [H1] Fault Tolerance Philosophy - Key idea: Single points of failure are unacceptable for business-critical sites - Evidence: "I have an aversion to single virtual private server running somewhere" #### ⏱️ [10:30](https://youtu.be/nTgxilV992U?t=630) — [H2] Point-in-Time Recovery - Key idea: Daily backups insufficient for e-commerce and dynamic sites - Evidence: "What day and what minute of the day do you need this restored from" #### ⏱️ [12:45](https://youtu.be/nTgxilV992U?t=765) — [H1] Object Caching as Requirement - Key idea: Object caching should be included free, not an expensive add-on - Evidence: "Every single instance has Redis wire compatible... one of the big things that helps speed things up" #### ⏱️ [16:20](https://youtu.be/nTgxilV992U?t=980) — [H2] Page Caching Problems - Key idea: Page caching breaks dynamic functionality in LMS and e-commerce - Evidence: "Users signing up for course then go to sign in and it says they don't have an account" #### ⏱️ [20:10](https://youtu.be/nTgxilV992U?t=1210) — [H3] Real Experience Over Numbers - Key idea: Focus on actual user experience rather than performance scores - Evidence: "Focused on what is the actual real experience versus a number" #### ⏱️ [22:30](https://youtu.be/nTgxilV992U?t=1350) — [H2] User Role Restrictions - Key idea: Limit client access to prevent plugin conflicts and support issues - Evidence: "We don't give them ability to install and update plugins... works for 98% of customers" #### ⏱️ [28:45](https://youtu.be/nTgxilV992U?t=1725) — [H1] Multi-Platform Support - Key idea: Support static sites, Laravel, Node.js alongside WordPress - Evidence: "If you built a service on Lovable or Bolt... you can deploy that into CribOps" #### ⏱️ [32:15](https://youtu.be/nTgxilV992U?t=1935) — [H2] Immutable WordPress Deployments - Key idea: Bundle all updates together to prevent individual plugin failures - Evidence: "Nothing other than uploads directory... updated as one deployment" #### ⏱️ [35:20](https://youtu.be/nTgxilV992U?t=2120) — [H2] Mobile App Management - Key idea: Agencies can monitor and manage sites from mobile devices - Evidence: "Mobile app... get notifications... white screen of death notifications" #### ⏱️ [38:40](https://youtu.be/nTgxilV992U?t=2320) — [H2] Resource Allocation Control - Key idea: Dynamically allocate CPU and memory per site without downtime - Evidence: "You can tune the resources that each site utilizes... with zero downtime" #### ⏱️ [42:10](https://youtu.be/nTgxilV992U?t=2530) — [H3] Per-Site Storage Management - Key idea: Each site gets dedicated storage that can be scaled independently - Evidence: "Per site storage allocation... 20 gigs by default per site" #### ⏱️ [45:30](https://youtu.be/nTgxilV992U?t=2730) — [H2] Automatic CDN Integration - Key idea: Images automatically moved to S3 and served via CloudFront - Evidence: "Hook into that and drop that into S3 bucket... use CloudFront to serve content" ## 📚 References - [CribOps](https://cribops.com) - [Lerty AI](https://lerty.ai) - [Cloud Bedrock Agency](https://cloudbedrock.com) ## 🗣️ Paraphrase - Jim built CribOps because existing agency hosting lacked proper fault tolerance and operational control - The platform focuses on managed databases, object caching, and multi-platform support beyond WordPress - Pricing is agency-only with resource pooling and dynamic allocation to handle varying client loads efficiently ## 📰 Newsletter **New Agency-Focused Hosting Platform Tackles WordPress Reliability Issues** CribOps launches with a fresh approach to agency hosting, prioritizing fault tolerance over flashy performance scores. Built by agency owner Jim Hankins, the platform includes managed databases, automatic object caching, and support for modern static sites alongside WordPress. Key benefits for agencies: - Point-in-time database recovery (not just daily backups) - Built-in object caching to prevent dynamic site conflicts - Mobile app for monitoring and resource management - Multi-platform support for diverse client needs The agency-only model with pooled resources could be especially valuable for shops managing mixed client portfolios where traffic patterns vary dramatically. Resources: [Learn WordPress](https://learn.wordpress.org/), [Developer Docs](https://developer.wordpress.org/), [WP-CLI](https://wp-cli.org/) ## ✅ Action Items #### DevRel - Developer advocacy: Create case studies showing object caching benefits for LMS/e-commerce - Education: Host workshops on fault-tolerant hosting architecture - Developer experience: Document API for programmatic site management - Community management: Survey agencies on multi-platform hosting needs #### WordPress - Core Performance: Evaluate object caching as standard recommendation - Hosting: Develop best practices guide for agency hosting requirements - Documentation: Create troubleshooting guides for caching conflicts - Plugins: Review page caching plugin compatibility with dynamic content #### Community - Agencies: Connect CribOps with agency-focused meetups and events - Hosting providers: Facilitate discussions on fault tolerance standards - Performance: Share real-world vs synthetic performance insights ## 🧪 Hypotheses - Object caching reduces support tickets for dynamic sites more than page caching - Fault-tolerant hosting justifies higher costs for business-critical sites - Agency resource pooling is more efficient than per-site fixed allocations - Multi-platform support becomes essential as agencies diversify services ### 📊 Methodology - Compare support ticket volumes between hosts with/without object caching - Survey agencies on hosting pain points and feature priorities - Analyze resource utilization patterns across agency client portfolios ### ❓ Questions - How do fault tolerance features impact actual business outcomes vs costs? - What percentage of agencies need multi-platform hosting beyond WordPress? - Can immutable deployments significantly reduce plugin-related failures? ### 🔮 Future Research - Long-term reliability comparison between traditional and fault-tolerant hosting - Agency productivity metrics with unified vs fragmented hosting management - Cost-benefit analysis of managed services vs DIY hosting operations ### 💡 Implications - Practice: Agencies may need to evaluate hosting architecture more critically - Policy: Industry standards for fault tolerance in business hosting - Security: Immutable deployments could reduce attack surfaces - Education: Training needed on object vs page caching distinctions ### 🧠 Learning Styles Assessment Reading level estimate: 10-12th grade #### 👀 Visual learners - Present: Architecture diagrams would help explain fault tolerance concepts - Improve: Network topology visuals, resource allocation charts #### 🔊 Aural learners - Present: Podcast format interview works well - Improve: Technical deep-dive audio supplements #### 🗣️ Verbal learners - Present: Good analogies (emergency response systems, Reader's Digest) - Improve: More hosting metaphors and comparisons #### 🧩 Kinesthetic learners - Present: Real-world agency scenarios and hands-on examples - Improve: Interactive demos, migration checklists #### 🧠 Logical learners - Present: Clear problem-solution structure - Improve: Performance benchmarks, cost comparisons #### 🧑‍🤝‍🧑 Social learners - Present: Agency community focus and peer experiences - Improve: User forums, case study discussions #### 🧘‍♀️ Solitary learners - Present: Technical documentation and self-service options - Improve: Configuration worksheets, decision trees #### 🌿 Naturalistic learners - Present: Ecosystem thinking about hosting infrastructure - Improve: Sustainability considerations, resource optimization ### 📊 Accessibility Assessment #### Screen reader semantics - Present: Clear heading structure in transcript - Improve: Technical diagram alt text, ARIA labels #### Keyboard navigation - Present: Standard video player controls - Improve: Transcript search functionality #### Contrast and readability - Present: Video has good visual contrast - Improve: Transcript formatting, larger text options #### Text resizing and reflow - Present: Responsive video player - Improve: Scalable transcript layout #### Media and captions - Present: Full transcript available - Improve: Time-synced captions, audio descriptions ### 🌍 DEIB Assessment #### Cultural breadth - Present: US-focused agency perspective - Improve: Global hosting challenges, international examples #### Inclusive language - Present: Professional, accessible technical language - Improve: Define technical jargon more consistently #### Neurodiversity support - Present: Conversational, natural pacing - Improve: Structured summaries, key point highlights #### Representation - Present: Male tech entrepreneur perspective - Improve: Diverse agency owner experiences ### ✅ Logical Validity #### Strong reasoning - Deductive strength: Clear problem-solution logic from agency pain points - Inductive strength: Generalizes from personal experience to market need - Causal reasoning: Links hosting architecture to business outcomes - Analogical strength: Emergency response systems analogy works well #### Fallacies - Survivorship bias: May overweight successful agency perspective - Appeal to authority: Enterprise IT background assumed as validation #### Tone of voice - Overall tone: Conversational, experienced, pragmatic with technical depth ### 🛡️ DARVO Analysis - No concerning patterns detected - straightforward product introduction and technical discussion ## 🎯 Conclusion CribOps represents a thoughtful approach to agency hosting that prioritizes operational reliability over marketing metrics. The focus on fault tolerance, proper caching implementation, and multi-platform support addresses real agency pain points. Success will likely depend on execution quality and whether the agency-only model provides sufficient differentiation from established competitors. ## 🧱 Refactor Appendix ### 📚 Literature Split Pad ### [H1] Object caching prevents dynamic content conflicts > [!quote] EP114 Jim Hankins Introduces CribOps to Agencies by Mañana Nomas via YouTube. Published 2024. > "Every single instance has Redis... one of the big things that helps speed things up" Distinguishes object caching from problematic page caching for LMS/e-commerce sites. [view highlight](https://youtu.be/nTgxilV992U?t=765#H1) #caching #performance ID:rw_001 ### [H2] Fault tolerance requires managed database services > [!quote] EP114 Jim Hankins Introduces CribOps to Agencies > "I don't put a database on a virtual private server. It's a managed database service" Enterprise IT background drives architecture decisions for business-critical sites. [view highlight](https://youtu.be/nTgxilV992U?t=495#H2) #infrastructure ID:rw_002 ### 🔖 Atomic Split Pad (Zettel Candidates) #### [Z1] Page caching breaks dynamic site functionality - Scope: LMS, e-commerce, membership sites with user-specific content - Pointer: 16:20 timestamp discussion of LifterLMS conflicts - Links: [[Object-Caching]] [[Dynamic-Content]] #### [Z2] Agency resource pooling more efficient than fixed allocation - Scope: Multi-client hosting with varying traffic patterns - Pointer: 38:40 resource allocation discussion - Links: [[Container-Architecture]] [[Resource-Management]] ### ✏️ Fleeting Queue - [F1] Research Grid Pane migration script — automated server-to-server transfers #migration #automation - [F2] Compare Kinsta agency pricing — validate CribOps competitive positioning #pricing #research - [F3] Test object caching impact — measure LMS performance improvements #testing #performance --- ## Full Transcript [00:00] Heat. Heat. [00:33] Hey folks, welcome to yet another Mñana [00:35] Nomas podcast. Uh, as you know, we don't [00:38] really uh schedule these on a schedule. [00:40] We just wait until we have someone [00:42] really awesome to talk to. And in this [00:44] case, uh, I'm going to go out on a limb [00:46] and say I think he's more than an [00:48] acquaintance. We kind of know each other [00:49] from some other circles. Uh Jim Henkins [00:52] has just been a phenomenal support to me [00:54] in the Lifter LMS space. He comes to our [00:57] office hours. Um we've had conversations [01:00] uh off screen, like off of shows about [01:02] other things and products that he's [01:04] working on. And today Jim says he's [01:07] ready to talk about something called [01:08] Crib Ops. So I thought I'd welcome him [01:10] to the show, let him introduce himself [01:12] and uh see where we go from there. [01:14] Folks, Jim Henkins. Jim, can you tell us [01:18] someone about yourself? [01:19] >> Yeah, I'll give you a Reader's Digest [01:22] condensed version. So, you know, given [01:24] my age, [01:26] >> so uh [01:27] >> you know, I used to read those when I [01:29] was a kid. My mom would get Reader's [01:30] Digest and I would sit and read them [01:32] like as a kid. I thought they were cool. [01:34] >> Totally. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. [01:36] Yeah. So again, Jim Henkins, uh, I own a [01:38] company called Cloud Beerrock, which is [01:40] an agency, a web agency. And then I have [01:43] I'm involved in a number of different uh [01:45] software uh products and and other um uh [01:49] startups. [01:50] And uh most of my kind of history has [01:54] been in the IT world. So I've worked for [01:56] companies like Cisco and uh you know [01:58] worked for very large uh automotives you [02:00] know like one of the big three for very [02:02] long periods of time you know building [02:04] things uh or supporting things for them. [02:06] Uh so mostly uh IT support ser uh you [02:10] know server side uh development backend [02:13] stuff right. Uh I got uh the opportunity [02:17] to get acquired by one of my um roles as [02:21] a chief technology officer for a company [02:23] that did uh uh emergency response [02:26] coordination for panic devices. So if [02:28] you had a satellite panic button, you [02:29] press the button, we would coordinate [02:31] the the rescue for that. So I built the [02:33] infrastructure that received the SOS and [02:36] you know got it to the response center [02:37] so they could call and dispatch the [02:39] helicopter. [02:39] >> Are you just afraid to say I've fallen [02:40] and I can't get up? [02:42] >> Yeah. Yes. It's it's like that only it's [02:44] probably more on the side of a mountain [02:46] or an avalanche or something off the [02:49] grid, right? You know where they would [02:50] uh skiers get stuck in a in an avalanche [02:53] under snow. [02:53] >> Yeah, that was very very uh common uh [02:56] dispatch scenario that we would have to [02:58] to handle. So um so yeah, that got [03:00] acquired by Garmin. Uh so I've had a [03:02] couple exits uh under my belt um with [03:05] that which was great. And uh so now you [03:08] know I had some time to you know to [03:10] build an agency work an agency and and [03:12] we predominantly just are you know like [03:14] WordPress hosting and CRM hosting and [03:17] doing various incundury things that the [03:19] the customer needs in our niche. uh and [03:24] then got the crazy idea that maybe I [03:26] would build based on those observations [03:29] a agency hosted or a agency focused [03:32] hosting platform. [03:34] So you know out of the you know building [03:36] the thing that I think I want uh [03:39] for my own hosting and then said well [03:41] probably other people would might like [03:43] this too. So that's Kerbops. So, I [03:46] interview a fair amount of product [03:48] creators, right? Whether it's for the [03:50] Mñana Noas show or for WP Tonic or [03:52] Membership Machine or whatever. [03:54] >> Um, [03:55] and a lot of them have like that same [03:57] pathway. Like I needed a product. I got [04:01] tired of duplicating the effort to like [04:03] remake this thing for myself over and [04:05] over again. I thought I would just make [04:07] it as a product. It's duplicable and now [04:09] I can offer it to others. Is that like [04:10] kind of the mind space that you were in? [04:12] >> Yeah. Yeah, pretty much. I mean I think [04:14] developers oftentimes will spend an [04:16] inordinate amount of time working on you [04:18] know saving five minutes of time and [04:20] maybe spend six months working on it to [04:23] to help save someone else five minutes [04:26] right so there's a little bit of that [04:27] right uh but yeah in this particular [04:30] case it was um for our own agency [04:34] enabling us to scale so other members of [04:36] this mine's a familyowned business so I [04:38] have my son and my wife involved in it [04:40] whereas I'm more of the crazy you know [04:42] IT guy So, I was trying to give them the [04:45] ability to do some things because I'm [04:47] lazy. Uh, so that uh they could work on [04:49] some of those things, too. So, they [04:50] didn't have to have everything that had [04:52] to do with managing any kind of hosting [04:55] issues to be able to offload some of [04:57] that ticket work, right? To make it [04:58] easier, right? [04:59] >> Uh, so yeah, so at first I went through [05:02] just using whatever was possible, you [05:04] know, so I would just go out and rather [05:05] than reinvent the wheel, try to find [05:07] other, you know, product offerings that [05:09] would work. and I've used a number of [05:11] them and just none of them ever quite [05:13] like fit the bill for what uh I wanted [05:16] to do and so yeah so I just said heck [05:20] with it. I'll build it. [05:21] >> Heck with it. I'll build it. [05:22] >> Yeah. You know, it's interesting you you [05:24] kind of go down that route, right? So [05:26] some listeners and viewers might not [05:28] care anything about websites. Other [05:29] people might be, [05:30] >> you know, freelancers or maybe you're a [05:32] business owner that owns a shoe store [05:34] and you're like, "Well, I have a [05:35] website. You know, what does that mean?" [05:36] And those are like kind of like removed [05:38] examples I would dare say. But I think [05:41] about my own journey as an agency owner [05:44] and it was like, yeah, you know, I was I [05:46] started out I was on a budget. We were [05:48] new. I I got this Blue Host account and [05:51] I figured out, oh, I I can add I can add [05:53] websites and it doesn't add money to my [05:55] bill. So, I'll just sell as many [05:58] websites as I can until this thing stops [05:59] working. Um, and then eventually it [06:02] slows down. You're like, "Ah, I need to [06:03] upgrade. I need to this. I need to [06:04] that." And so, um, I upgraded with Blue [06:06] Host. I stayed with Blue Host for like [06:08] 16 years, Jim. 16 years. I ran a ton of [06:11] projects through that, right, [06:12] >> through that platform. And then finally, [06:14] I was like, you know what? I'm doing [06:16] professional websites. Like I'm I'm I'm [06:19] doing real websites for real clients. [06:21] Suzuki, Ducati, things like that. And [06:23] so, um, I went to Cloudways. Uh, but [06:27] while I went to Cloudways, I looked at [06:29] WP Engine. I looked at Kinsta. When I [06:32] left Cloudways, I was looking at like um [06:37] Rocket.net. I was looking at um 20i. I [06:41] was looking at uh Grid Pane. Grid Pane [06:44] kind of rose to the top of my list a [06:46] little bit because they had that [06:48] Facebook page and they had a lot of [06:49] people I knew in there saying really [06:51] good things about it [06:54] >> and [06:54] >> and I have used them. I I've used most [06:56] of the ones you've seen at one time or [06:58] another. Yeah. And and as people listen [07:00] to me throwing out all these names, I'm [07:02] not trying to disparrage any or raise [07:04] any to the top. [07:06] >> Um I like 20i. I've used 20i for a while [07:09] and it gives me some tools as an agency [07:11] person where you know I can blueprint [07:14] some some packages, some hosting [07:16] packages. So I could say here's a sample [07:18] site that's my blueprint and then if I [07:20] get a customer that wants a similar [07:22] thing, I just snap that up. It's like an [07:24] instant build, right? So that's like a [07:26] thing I like. But there's like these [07:27] different tools. But now I'm going to be [07:29] honest about 20i on some hosted things [07:33] they offer that are really clumsy. Like [07:36] they have this reseller ability where I [07:38] can resell hosting or I can bring, you [07:40] know, I can bring people in, but the the [07:42] interface is like super clunky, like [07:45] 2002 looking, right? Like the interface [07:48] doesn't look good. It doesn't perform [07:49] well. It's it's not a clear path of [07:52] purchase for the customer. Um, so from [07:55] an agency perspective, I just create my [07:57] own sales pages with buttons that say [07:58] click here and sign up and then we [08:01] manual the pro the project after that. [08:04] Um, talk to me about like your [08:06] experience and like when you're thinking [08:09] I got to create an agency focused [08:11] platform like what were the [08:13] considerations and the features and the [08:15] options that you wanted to put in place? [08:18] >> Yeah. So it and also it happens to [08:21] coincide with kind of changes in the [08:23] marketplace because it wasn't just I was [08:25] always having that feeling that I wanted [08:26] to have the control. Uh so it was either [08:29] the the hosting provider didn't provide [08:32] me enough access so that I could [08:34] troubleshoot something myself and I had [08:36] to like open a ticket, you know, so [08:38] there's that that side. So if I if I [08:40] want to dip in and actually look at a [08:42] debug log or something like that, I want [08:44] to do it because it's probably [08:45] something's not working right. I need to [08:47] fix it for the customer, right? Um, but [08:50] there's like a change in the market now, [08:52] at least from my perception, where uh, [08:56] you know, you know, I'm 60 now, you [08:58] know, this this year. Uh, so so I've [09:00] seen a number of market uh, changes and [09:03] there seems to be kind of a [09:04] consolidation of different types of [09:06] hosting services where it's not just [09:09] potentially WordPress anymore. Now there [09:11] may be people that that's all they're [09:12] using totally fine but there there may [09:14] be client demands where they're starting [09:16] to see I want to have this or I want to [09:18] have that and uh the agency has to [09:21] figure out how to operationalize that so [09:23] that they're not you know being forced [09:25] to have you know five different accounts [09:27] to manage all these various incundury [09:30] services as well as uh economies of [09:33] scale if there are resources that all of [09:34] these new sites could leverage like [09:37] maybe it's the database right so maybe [09:39] you have this this specific pick like [09:40] static hosting service that you're going [09:42] to run alongside your WordPress site. [09:44] Sure, it would be nice if you could [09:45] leverage that database to, you know, [09:47] share in between and maybe have they be [09:50] better together, you know, for, you [09:51] know, uh, uh, greater than the sum of [09:53] the parts, uh, kind of a thing. Uh, so [09:56] that's when I started uh, to focus on [09:58] that because there's a ton of, you [09:59] mentioned Kinsta and WP Engine that were [10:02] very predominantly focused in the [10:04] WordPress world, right? I think Ken [10:06] still spun off uh [10:08] >> uh Savala as a [10:10] >> everything else besides WordPress kind [10:12] of a thing to try to you know to deal [10:14] with that. So so I wanted to have [10:17] multiple uh support for multiple hosting [10:19] types. So that was one and then probably [10:22] as a side effect of me spending so much [10:25] time in IT and like enterprise IT like [10:28] major you know large companies or you [10:30] know SOS messages. I have a a version to [10:34] uh I guess you could say I see downtime. [10:37] So I I see an awful lot of of hosted [10:40] services out there uh that people are [10:42] launching their uh their sites on that [10:44] are uh what we would call single points [10:47] of failure where it's a it's a single [10:49] virtual private server running [10:51] somewhere. Maybe it's, you know, bring [10:52] your own infrastructure and on there is [10:55] a single, you know, my my SQL or Mariah [10:58] DB database on there and then they might [11:00] put one or more WordPress sites on there [11:05] and then the more sites you put on, you [11:07] know, either the slower you get or it's [11:10] also the uh the kind of the blast radius [11:13] of a failure. So, uh I I have an [11:16] aversion towards that. So I I always try [11:18] to kind of build things when I'm [11:20] building things that are more fault [11:22] tolerant and and resilient. Uh so fault [11:25] tolerance is a big thing that I focus on [11:28] with uh with Querbop. So I don't put a [11:31] database on a virtual private server. [11:32] It's a managed database service as an [11:35] example. So all sites get that. Uh so [11:38] it's a primary and secondary. that can [11:41] do point in time recovery which just [11:43] means uh uh instead of the common thing [11:46] you see out there which is daily backups [11:49] uh we could do what what day and what [11:52] minute of the day do you need this [11:55] restored from because you know Glattus [11:58] inadvertently you know uh connected [12:01] straight to the database and blew [12:02] something up or some plugin went [12:04] sideways and and you lost uh you know [12:06] all these records and it's a WCommerce [12:09] site and now that would be, you know, [12:11] really problematic to have to go back [12:13] and sort through your payment gateway [12:15] and rebuild all the user accounts if it [12:17] was a digital product and all that, [12:19] right? So, with point in time recovery, [12:21] uh, that's no sweat. You just pick the [12:24] date and time you need to do the [12:25] recovery and restore it. If you picked [12:27] the wrong date and time, try it again. [12:30] You know, if you got the time zone [12:32] wrong, that happens. If you got the time [12:33] zone wrong and it was actually this [12:35] time, then um it would be so much easier [12:37] if we just all agreed on the same time [12:39] and just got over with it. But yeah, [12:41] that would be uh [12:43] >> totally. But uh yeah, so that so it's uh [12:46] it's a combination of hosting uh [12:49] providing the ability for agencies to [12:51] host different kinds of sites if they [12:54] want to um together in a place that's [12:57] close together uh that then can leverage [13:00] some of these shared resources like a [13:02] really super resilient database u and [13:05] object caching is another thing I feel [13:07] like that is a not an option it's a [13:09] requirement so we include it free other [13:11] places will charge you you know a lot of [13:13] money because they have to, you know, [13:15] you know, cobble that all together. [13:16] Every single instance has a our own uh [13:20] like Reddus wire compatible piece of [13:22] software that sits there. [13:24] >> Every site has a object cache. Uh so [13:27] that when you're the agency and you're [13:29] using it, that's like one of the big [13:30] things that helps speed things up as the [13:33] and when you're in the back end, right? [13:34] You know, working with Lifter LMS or [13:37] those kinds of things. If you have an [13:38] object cache, wow, that makes a big [13:40] difference on your experience, you know? [13:43] Uh, you make a good point and and this [13:46] is something I think the listeners and [13:48] viewers might see some value in. [13:50] >> You seem to have a deeper knowledge of [13:53] caching and I think so many people are [13:55] confused about caching and it sounds [13:58] like it's a big part of your project, [14:01] right? [14:01] >> Yeah. Yep. So, uh, a lot of people will [14:05] have cash on a website like, so I do [14:07] customer service for Lifter LMS and we [14:09] get a ton of tickets that come in where [14:11] someone's like, uh, my users are signing [14:14] up for a course and then they go to sign [14:16] in and it says they don't have an [14:17] account or they get a certificate and [14:20] then they they go to their certificates [14:22] and it's not there, right? Um, and they [14:24] think something's wrong with Lifter. [14:26] Nothing's wrong with Lifter. Something's [14:28] wrong with your hosting. you know, [14:30] you've got some cheap host that's [14:31] cashing the living crud out of it and [14:33] it's causing a lot of cache errors where [14:36] what you think you see in the back end [14:38] is not what your people see on the front [14:40] end, [14:40] >> right? [14:41] >> And so we have to teach people how to [14:42] like not cache certain dynamic pages and [14:46] things like that. [14:47] >> But when you mention object cache, [14:49] that's kind of a different world, right? [14:50] >> Yeah. [14:51] >> Yeah. So, so oftentimes the things that [14:54] are kind of causing those problems are [14:56] page caching, you know, plugins where [14:58] they're caching pages that are dynamic, [15:00] you know, that need to be dynamic, you [15:02] know, like your uh your WordPress, you [15:04] know, checkouts and lifter LMS course [15:07] progression and those kinds of things, [15:09] right? [15:09] >> Uh so yeah, and we just necessarily [15:12] don't install those by default. So [15:15] that's one of the things we're focused [15:16] on our more dynamic uh sites uh just to, [15:20] you know, to support that. Um, so yeah, [15:22] we don't by default include a page [15:25] caching, uh, feature. Uh, and we're not [15:28] driven by the, you know, uh, kind of the [15:30] buzzwords or, um, uh, you know, using [15:34] all these scores, uh, to get the [15:36] performance of a website. We're actually [15:38] focused on what is what is the actual [15:40] real experience versus a number. [15:43] >> Yeah. Uh, you know, that that that's [15:45] what's important, you know, and uptime. [15:48] People have a tendency to focus on [15:50] hitting a number for performance, but [15:51] they forget that what you know, at least [15:54] what my customers and my agency care [15:56] about is they will definitely let you [15:57] know if there's a problem with their [16:00] order system because that's, you know, [16:02] that's how they transact business. that [16:04] they in our case we're booking uh [16:06] in-person classes or most of our uh [16:08] customers are inerson class class [16:10] instructors and you know it they either [16:14] make it or break it every week by making [16:16] sure that they fill those seats up for [16:18] uh for their customers and any ancillary [16:21] sales after the fact. So they have a [16:22] really brief window uh usually of you [16:25] know Saturday where all these orders [16:28] come in and uh and they they can't they [16:31] have zero appetite for outages [16:34] >> or lost data. I'm thinking about [16:39] the average use case that that I [16:41] interact with, [16:43] >> right? And so the average use case I [16:45] interact with um you know I'll be [16:48] working with a client, they're on [16:49] Cloudways, it came with Breeze, I'll be [16:50] working with someone at 20i, it came [16:52] with stack cache, [16:53] >> but then these clients, they think they [16:55] need a performance or a cache tool. So [16:57] then they add [16:59] >> something else and then maybe they maybe [17:02] they didn't even realize it. they got [17:03] some image optimization tool, but [17:06] anything that says performance or [17:07] optimization is probably caching [17:09] something anyway, right? And so they end [17:11] up with three or four tools in the [17:13] website, even if it's by mistake, and [17:15] they create this disaster, this mess, [17:18] >> right? [17:18] >> And then I'm I'm hearing you talk and [17:20] I'm thinking, well, from an agency [17:21] perspective, this sounds like a dream. [17:23] Like, I don't have all this nonsense [17:26] just to walk people through because it's [17:28] confusing for a lot of people. Like, it [17:30] is. Yeah. Most business owners don't [17:32] want to be web masters. They want to be [17:33] business owners and they want someone [17:35] else to manage the site. Totally. You [17:37] want to you want to spend time doing [17:39] incomeroucing activities. Uh you know, [17:41] even our customers if they're if they're [17:43] the type that you know, because they're [17:44] everyone's different, right? Everyone's [17:46] wired differently. Some [17:47] >> will never ever ask to log in. Uh or [17:51] even if they're provided to login, [17:53] they'll never log in. uh even if you [17:55] need them to log in to be able to or [17:57] have somebody log in so that they can uh [17:59] you know deal with like open orders and [18:01] things like that right you have other [18:03] people that have a tendency to I just [18:06] >> I just watch this YouTube video and I [18:08] have to you know put in sticky bear [18:10] version 2.7 plugin to do some magic [18:14] thing and uh and those are actually the [18:17] ones that probably if if if other [18:20] agencies are like me those are the ones [18:22] that cost you the time right and and [18:24] cost themselves the time because they're [18:26] spending time doing that instead of [18:28] doing whatever it is their their [18:29] business is supposed to be doing. You [18:31] know, putting butts and seats if you're [18:32] an instructor, etc. Yeah. from a mñana [18:36] nom perspective when I bring in clients [18:39] I think the value that we really bring [18:41] to the table is hey out of those 60,000 [18:45] plugins that are out there in the [18:46] WordPress repository um you know we've [18:49] really worked with and identified 20 [18:51] that we're experts with that fit your [18:54] use case and can get you you know to [18:57] your minimal viable product and to [18:59] revenue as quickly as possible like [19:01] that's [19:02] >> in a nutshell that's and when it comes [19:04] to e-learning and and memberships and [19:06] like we're solid. Where we're not solid [19:09] is maybe there's some custom development [19:11] that people want to do or or they really [19:13] want to get into that claude code stuff [19:15] and and really start playing with cursor [19:17] and messing around with things and and [19:19] going down some custom avenue and then I [19:22] find those people generally end up [19:24] having some kind of security or [19:26] functionality issue downstream. Mhm. [19:30] >> Is what kind of support are you able to [19:32] offer through crib ops for people in [19:34] these situations that kind of create [19:36] their own nightmare? Like you say, hey, [19:38] you created your own nightmare. Have a [19:39] nice day. That that's how we do it from [19:42] a like our agency perspective. That's [19:44] actually what we do. So, so we don't [19:46] give um we we allow them to log in, but [19:49] we use user roles so that they don't [19:51] have the ability to install and update [19:53] plugins and or even see them so they [19:55] even think about it, right? And that [19:57] generally works for 98% of our [20:00] customers. Uh, and the ones that that [20:02] want to go off that beaten path, we just [20:04] had the conversation, you're on your own [20:07] for support for that. We'll help, you [20:09] know, like if you need us to recover a [20:10] backup or something like that. uh but [20:12] it's like best effort you know you know [20:15] we we'll take we won't say no flat out [20:18] but but we make it very clear that as [20:20] soon as they go down that path you know [20:21] they've brought in some other developer [20:23] you know you know web design you know [20:25] person and they want to grant them admin [20:28] access and they want to change the [20:29] themes or they want to use a different [20:31] learning management system than we have [20:33] right that we've standardize on we [20:34] standardize on Lifter LMS for uh for our [20:37] uh uh for that [20:38] >> and uh and we actually do some [20:40] integrations with it as well for some [20:42] additional products we have. So, uh [20:45] yeah, if they want to go down that path, [20:46] they just need to understand that that's [20:48] that's fine, but you know, you now own [20:50] the responsibility for that because we [20:52] can't, you know, we're we're a small, [20:54] you know, company. We can't, you know, [20:56] own the respons and you, as you know, it [20:58] can take hours, days to sort out an [21:02] issue that it was, you know, created [21:04] with a, you know, a change like that, [21:06] right? I think that's so interesting [21:08] because you and I share that ideology [21:11] except I think I'm a little split. So I [21:14] have a website as a service pro product [21:16] that we offer for people. They basically [21:18] lease the website until they pay for [21:20] what it would have cost to develop it [21:22] and then we lower their bill down to an [21:23] average hosting bill um hosting and [21:26] maintenance. And so but during that time [21:29] during the lease time it's user role and [21:32] no access to plugins. I'm I am not Look, [21:35] I I'm already giving you financing, [21:37] >> right? Yeah. Right. [21:39] >> I'm already financing your project for [21:41] you. The last thing I'm going to do is [21:43] is let you go in and screw it up on top [21:44] of that. [21:45] >> Um but once people are fully vested in [21:48] the build of the site, we usually give [21:50] them admin access and that coaching that [21:52] you talked about that said, "Hey, we're [21:53] going to give you admin access. It's [21:55] your website. If you want to hire third [21:57] parties to work on it, I mean, it's [21:58] yours. You own it. You can do what you [22:00] want. But when you break it, [22:02] >> you know, this is what your maintenance [22:04] and hosting covers. Anything beyond [22:06] that, [22:07] >> you know, you're either have to be on a [22:08] maintenance and and uh, you know, [22:10] maintenance plan or you're going to have [22:11] to, you know, be on by the hour to fix [22:14] it, you know, in real time, [22:15] >> right? [22:17] >> So, always an awkward conversation, but [22:19] I think it's really the only way to go. [22:21] I mean, you can't you can't have the [22:23] financial liability of putting yourself [22:25] out there for other people, [22:26] >> right? And those people have other [22:28] opport, you know, other choices that [22:30] they can make for hosting, you know, so [22:32] it's not like they're they're [22:33] >> dead in the water, right? They can pick [22:35] up their WordPress and go, you know, [22:36] somewhere where they just have, you [22:38] know, fullon access to do do what they [22:40] want, right? [22:41] >> Exactly. Once they get past the lease [22:43] period with us and they get ownership of [22:44] the site, uh we tell them, you know, [22:47] you're free to take it take it and do [22:50] with it what you want. Um or uh or uh [22:53] you know you can sign up for this [22:54] hosting and maintenance package with us [22:56] and it'll reduce your monthly out [22:58] output, right? Um so there's different [23:00] ways to go. Uh I'm interested. I want to [23:04] ask another question because you got you [23:06] got all these wheels turning in my head. [23:08] We have people in town that are creating [23:13] vibecoded SAS [23:16] websites, right? And so I don't know if [23:19] they're on I don't know what this [23:20] person's use. I don't know if they're [23:21] using Replet or uh at one point I heard [23:24] they were using Squarespace and talking [23:25] like these are AI coded you know custom [23:27] websites. I'm like no you're on [23:28] Squarespace. Um [23:32] everyone's got a different vernacular [23:35] different sense of vocabulary to go with [23:37] what they think they're doing as an [23:39] agency. When you say that you host more [23:42] than WordPress, that you're, you know, a [23:44] multi- multi-product platform, [23:47] what what do you like to see people on? [23:49] Like what who's your target customer? [23:53] Yeah. So, so my target customer only [23:55] agency. So, we don't we're with the [23:57] cribops offering, it's it's an agency [24:00] product. So, you could look at like the [24:01] Kinsta, we're our our pricing is similar [24:04] to Kinsta. Uh we just don't charge for [24:06] updates or for upgrades. uh like uh you [24:10] know hourly backup, we include that uh [24:12] for free that would cost you $100 a site [24:14] as an example, right? Yeah. Uh so uh but [24:17] yeah, so our our target market are [24:19] agencies and we think uh agencies are [24:22] now getting pressure to have something [24:25] besides WordPress uh that they can offer [24:29] and you know customize as a as an [24:31] offering to get a like a niche [24:33] automation offering or something to that [24:35] effect, right? or WordPress may or may [24:37] not always be part of it. oftentimes it [24:39] would probably be part of the solution [24:41] could be uh you know the the whole [24:44] headless thing for example that seems to [24:46] be making a a comeback now as these [24:48] vibecoded things are happening right [24:50] where uh you know you still have [24:52] WordPress as a as a backend because [24:54] you've got your uh [24:55] >> all of your investment in all these uh [24:57] these tools uh that are available but [24:59] you want to have a some fancy front end [25:02] right you know uh so uh so so it could [25:06] also be an agency that just wants to [25:08] spend [25:09] less time managing WordPress issues uh [25:13] you know because if you get it onto a [25:15] you know kind of a more repeatable uh [25:18] platform there's not a lot of variance [25:19] in between so the likelihood you're [25:21] going to run into a problem is less u [25:23] and uh but then these vibe code [25:26] solutions we offer a static hosting [25:29] capability so if you built a service on [25:33] lovable or bolt or one of these many you [25:35] know things or you use cloud code at the [25:37] terminal [25:38] and you know brought some you know spoke [25:40] something into existence right uh you [25:42] can deploy that into your cryops uh [25:45] environment and share the resource uh [25:48] because most things need a database well [25:50] you might as well use the already you [25:53] know already available database that you [25:54] have sitting right there uh and just [25:56] create another database on it and now [25:59] you have a a common view so now and we [26:02] have a mobile app I forgot you know the [26:04] one more thing we have a mobile app so [26:05] you can you can manage your agency in [26:07] your pocket and and and look and you'll [26:10] the the list of these sites will just [26:12] say what kind of site it is. It's a PHP [26:14] site, it's a Laravel site, it's an NADN [26:16] because you you can deploy NADN in there [26:18] and self-host that uh WordPress uh [26:21] mutable and immutable. So if you're [26:23] really wanting to just like say no, you [26:26] know, not not only do you not have or [26:28] even if you had admin access, you can't [26:30] make changes to the file system because [26:32] it's immutable. So there's a flag that [26:34] you can turn on with WordPress and say [26:36] nothing other than your uploads [26:37] directory, you know, if you want upload [26:39] your images and that kind of stuff and [26:41] then that's not actually hosted there. [26:43] It's put in S3 and has a CloudFront, you [26:46] know, CDN, you know, cache for that. But [26:48] the, you know, WordPress and all the [26:50] plugins are all together in a bundle [26:53] that are not that are updated as one [26:56] deployment. you know, when a new update [26:57] comes out, the whole shoot match is [27:00] swapped together instead of a onesie [27:02] twoosy, you know, you know, plug-in [27:04] update and it passes health checks [27:06] before it makes it in there so that you [27:08] don't have the onesie Tuesday plugin [27:10] giving you a, you know, white screen of [27:12] death uh, you know, WordPress [27:14] deployment, right, where you [27:15] >> I very embarrassingly did that to one of [27:16] my clients websites just yesterday. [27:19] >> Yeah, it happens. Happens to the best of [27:21] us. We were working in staging, working [27:23] in staging, working in staging. And then [27:25] uh last week I told her I would do [27:27] something for her. And then I went into [27:29] staging and it was gone. Like she took [27:31] her staging site down or else took the [27:33] staging site down. And I said, "It's [27:35] just a code snippet. I'm just going to [27:36] drop it right in on production and see [27:38] what happens." [27:39] >> Yeah. Could go wrong. [27:43] >> Whoops. [27:44] >> So I do it to myself all the time. But [27:46] yeah, I I [27:48] >> sometimes I don't listen to my own best [27:50] uh you know, advice, but [27:52] >> yeah, she's a super cool client. She's [27:55] really she's fun. Her energy is great. [27:58] She's and she's really gracious. I don't [27:59] think it's an issue, but you know, it's [28:01] just one of those things. It's like ah, [28:03] you know, I've got I've got a process [28:06] and then, you know, the process was [28:07] broken and I should have just stopped in [28:09] our tracks, but I was like, ah, it's [28:10] just this quick little thing and poof. [28:13] Um, just like that. So interesting. And [28:16] I'm glad to hear you laugh and and [28:18] realize it happens to you, too. So [28:19] >> Oh, yeah. totally. Yeah. We're all We're [28:20] all humans. We're all fallible. [28:22] >> Yeah. I I don't feel too stupid. [28:24] >> To really to really mess up, you need a [28:25] computer. [28:28] >> Well, now I've got lots of those. [28:31] >> I think we have something like 14 [28:32] computers in the house now. It's just [28:34] ridiculous. There's only there's only [28:36] three human beings in this house right [28:37] now. [28:38] >> Yeah. [28:38] >> Um, talk to me about So, let's say I'm [28:42] an agency, right? And I'm probably [28:44] putting you on the spot and and I know I [28:46] want to watch the time, but I want to [28:47] get through this, too. Uh, I'm an [28:49] agency. I'm looking for a place to to [28:50] move my clients that makes sense. I've [28:53] never heard of Crib Ops before. Um, [28:55] what's the experience like? Do I get uh [28:58] is there a control panel of some sorts? [29:00] How do I see my how do I see my clients? [29:03] And is there a control panel or an [29:06] interface I can share with individual [29:08] clients if I wanted to? Right. So, we're [29:11] uh so so we have our own control panel. [29:13] uh a and a mobile app that that has the [29:16] same view of that. And a mobile app can [29:18] get uh notifications, you know, like up [29:20] down like white screen of death [29:22] notifications because we we add that we [29:24] have a monitoring system on there and it [29:25] just runs every it kind of like divides [29:28] it up on the on the instance and just [29:30] you know checks everything. So it'll [29:31] check for what not just if it's up but [29:33] also if you have that no content thing [29:35] that a white screen of death would give [29:36] you alert that push notification. you [29:39] click it, it'll take you to the site. [29:41] You can, you know, restart, you can do [29:43] those kind of things from the from the [29:44] mobile app. As far as extending uh panel [29:48] to end users, uh we could do it. Um we [29:52] uh and and I'll do it if if I get the [29:55] feedback that that's what people want. [29:57] Um [29:57] >> yeah. [29:58] >> Uh you know, because the the system we [30:00] have is capable. It's like a [30:02] multi-tenant system. So it could be [30:04] scoped uh school kids say uh so that if [30:07] a user signed in they're only going to [30:08] see their site, [30:09] >> right? And it's just whether or not you [30:11] want to give that uh access or not. Um [30:14] and we could do the same for the mobile [30:16] app. It just would depend uh we're not [30:18] planning on probably at least initially [30:20] white labeling the mobile app because [30:22] it's just there's a fair amount of lift [30:24] with that. Um [30:25] >> uh you know where you know and I don't [30:28] know that as an agency you'd want to you [30:32] know push that capability all the way [30:34] down to users like that. Maybe you do [30:36] maybe maybe you want to give them the [30:38] ability to clear their cash from their [30:40] mobile uh device versus call you and say [30:43] hey I'm making a change and it's not [30:44] working. I just I I question whether [30:47] customers will know to to do that or [30:49] not. Well, all the customers say they [30:51] need it and then none of them ever sign [30:52] in and use it, [30:54] >> right? Yeah. So, so it just becomes one [30:56] of those things and [30:57] >> it's just a branding thing, right? You [30:58] know, so if you're an agency, so so if I [31:00] extend that to them then, you know, then [31:02] all the branding questions will come up, [31:04] right? Which we would have to, you know, [31:05] satisfy. So I want, you know, my logo [31:08] >> uh to you know, to show on the the [31:10] thing. [31:10] >> Oh, people get crazy, don't they? [31:12] >> Yeah. Yeah. And that that creates a lot [31:14] of like develop uh like limited value as [31:17] far as everyone is concerned as far as [31:19] uptime and performance and those kind of [31:22] things. And now it's you know kind of [31:24] not that marketing is not valuable but [31:26] you know it's a subset of the of the [31:29] audience that probably would would think [31:31] they want that and whether they actually [31:33] use it would be question. I will let the [31:35] I will let the audience decide on that [31:38] as to whether we we build that because [31:40] the capability is there. [31:41] >> Nice. So Uh, one more question. [31:46] An agency signs up. Is it like a [31:50] reseller account and they can add as [31:51] many sites as fit in the bandwidth or is [31:53] it like it's 30 bucks a site or is it 50 [31:55] bucks a site or [31:56] >> Yeah. Like is it a person you ask? [31:59] >> Yeah. So, so we, you know, because all [32:01] the competitors put like number of sites [32:04] uh uh in there, we do that. But like for [32:07] example, our lowest tier is 20 sites uh [32:09] you know for an for an a a agency plan, [32:12] right? [32:12] >> Um but you could end up having one [32:16] customer take up that entire instance if [32:18] you wanted, right? Uh and so you you had [32:21] the ability to tune the resources that [32:24] each site utilizes uh whether that's CPU [32:28] and memory as well as like a high [32:31] watermark like you know, hey, if it's [32:32] available, go ahead and you know, take [32:34] it. But if things get a little busy on [32:36] all, you know, like all the sites for [32:37] whatever reason, [32:38] >> yeah, [32:38] >> some crazy, you know, it's pretty [32:40] unlikely, but sometimes that happens [32:41] where you have a lot of, you know, [32:43] activity going on. Uh, then it will [32:46] constrain it so no one noisy neighbor [32:48] takes out, you know, all the resources. [32:50] So we give you and and you can do it [32:52] from the mobile app. So you could look [32:53] and see the utilization of CPU and [32:55] memory from the mobile app and go, "Oh, [32:58] I forgot, you know, so and so did say he [33:01] was, you know, potentially going to have [33:02] a sale. But maybe he moved it up a week. [33:05] I'm going to go ahead and just give him [33:06] a little extra headroom uh you know on [33:08] the on the instance and it will make [33:10] that happen with zero downtime. [33:12] >> Yeah. [33:13] >> So we use we use containers to you know [33:15] effectively you know manage that. [33:17] >> Yeah. [33:18] >> Because from the agency perspective and [33:20] and I'm I might be full of it. Maybe [33:23] everyone else is running some thriving [33:24] business where everybody's a [33:25] gazillionaire, but um I find that in [33:28] real life, you might manage 50 websites [33:32] as a as a medium-sized agency, and out [33:35] of those 50 websites, [33:37] >> 30 of them do next to zero in traffic. [33:39] >> Yeah, easily 30. [33:40] >> They just sit there. Yeah. They just sit [33:42] there and then Yeah. And and those are [33:44] the squeakiest wheels. Those are the [33:45] ones where, you know, oh, my my [33:47] website's down. Well, it doesn't matter. [33:48] You didn't have a customer anyway. [33:51] >> Yeah. And those are the ones that are [33:52] also spending an awful lot of time [33:54] testing out different plugins instead of [33:55] driving business. So that's why they [33:57] traffic. [33:57] >> Yeah, it just the selling something sell [33:59] something. Um, but then out of the 20% [34:03] that that are doing traffic, uh, to your [34:07] point, it seems like it's it's almost [34:09] like maybe a couple of them are really [34:11] big on Black Friday activity. Maybe a [34:13] couple of them are really big on some [34:15] kind of spring release. Like I do a lot [34:17] of work in the powers sports industry [34:19] and so traffic and bandwidth and stuff [34:21] increases like March through September [34:26] and then it's like data falls off a [34:28] cliff. No one's looking at nothing until [34:31] Christmas. They do a little dream [34:32] building at Christmas, right? Um so when [34:34] I look at actual traffic and flow and [34:36] and uh tasks or processes or whatever [34:39] name you want to put on it um it's it's [34:42] up and down and it's only on certain [34:45] accounts and so yeah I like that you [34:47] have those containers and you can [34:48] allocate the resources appropriately. [34:51] >> Yeah. Oh and on that we also this is [34:54] kind of unique uh we uh enable per site [34:58] storage allocation. So um most everybody [35:02] else it's a shared VPS and it's a it's [35:06] storage on that and the storage is [35:08] shared across you know if you're putting [35:10] multiple instances on a an instance in [35:13] our case each uh each task or each uh [35:16] you know container has its own uh [35:19] storage that's also you know flexible we [35:21] give 20 gigs by default per site uh and [35:25] and then you can at the time of [35:26] launching uh make that larger if you'd [35:29] like and then or grow it after the fact. [35:31] And uh yeah uh so so now you you know [35:34] storage is a separate you know [35:36] separately scaled thing. [35:38] >> That's pretty sweet. I have a client who [35:41] I adore. She's she building the website [35:44] was a task. [35:46] >> Yeah, [35:46] >> it was a task. Her her brain does not [35:48] work the same as my brain. It was a task [35:50] building the website. But I've really [35:52] come to adore as a client. She has a [35:53] makeup uh class. It's a makeup school. [35:57] >> Okay. And she did she put like a [35:59] nine-month pause on the project and [36:01] redid all the videos professionally in [36:03] LA with real videography in a real [36:05] studio with, you know, real models. And [36:08] I've also done makeup projects for like [36:10] large big companies. Her content dwarfs [36:15] their content. Like she makes awesome [36:17] content, but she wants everything to be [36:21] high definition, high resolution, high [36:23] everything. every picture that opens up, [36:25] you know, you got to see the pores and [36:26] that girl's nose. Uh, and so it's a lot [36:29] of um even though it seems like a lot of [36:32] pictures, when you consider the size of [36:34] the images and how people can open them [36:36] up and expand them, um, it's just huge [36:39] files. So, it's a huge course, huge [36:42] video files, huge photo files. And to [36:46] your point, yeah, out of it might not [36:48] have the most traffic, but it uses a lot [36:51] of resources in that space, [36:55] >> right? Yeah. So, one thing we do with uh [36:58] with just images and such in general is [37:02] when you upload to the WordPress, if [37:04] you're using WordPress um uh to the [37:07] media pool, we'll we have a hook into [37:09] that and we take that and we drop that [37:11] into an S3 bucket. So, so first it's not [37:14] consuming this the the per task uh [37:18] storage in that case [37:19] >> and then we uh use a we use cloudfront [37:22] because we predominantly use everything [37:24] as a AWS and we use cloudfront to serve [37:27] that content up at the edge right and [37:30] then you know at option we can you know [37:33] automatically uh you know compress those [37:36] images or or treat those images [37:39] appropriately so that you know you're [37:40] not you know using oodles of bandwidth [37:43] when somebody's on a mobile device or [37:44] things like that. So, so we provide [37:46] that. We have like a plugin that's just [37:48] installed by default and it and it will [37:50] hook up and do that automatically, you [37:53] know, uh for the user and rewrite all [37:55] the URLs and all that kind of stuff. So, [37:57] there's no need for a separate uh you [37:59] know, uh CDN plugin for something like [38:03] that. Now, videos something that Yeah, I [38:06] I'd have to look on I know you've used [38:09] uh you know, Bunnyet and things like [38:10] that. there are some probably some lower [38:12] cost alternatives for serving up that [38:15] you know the video content than uh you [38:17] know straight up on on AWS but we could [38:20] do it as well so we can serve up [38:21] streaming and [38:22] >> well I've been throwing them under the [38:23] bus all month so I'll do it again on the [38:25] on this episode I had a lifetime deal [38:27] with Adillo and so I used Adillow for [38:30] like five years right because it was a [38:32] lifetime deal and you could host all the [38:33] videos you wanted and then all of a [38:35] sudden first of the year rolled around [38:36] and they were like you got 30 days to [38:38] pick the subscription you Not. And I was [38:41] like, I don't need a subscription. I [38:43] have a lifetime deal. [38:45] >> Right. That [38:46] >> they were like they were like, no, that [38:47] wasn't [38:48] >> last I checked. [38:50] >> Mistake. Uh, we found it's financially [38:52] infeasible to offer a lifetime deal. And [38:54] I'm like, well, that's not how lifetime [38:56] deals work. Like, like Lifter LMS has a [38:59] lifetime deal, but it's a limited [39:00] lifetime deal. They only sell so many of [39:03] them, you know, per year, [39:04] >> and they still rely on subscriptions to [39:06] keep the the money coming. I think [39:08] Adillo just got I [39:10] >> right [39:11] >> can't speak because I'm not on the [39:12] inside of the company but they just said [39:14] yeah we know you bought a lifetime deal [39:15] but we're not going to honor it anymore [39:16] you have subscription and it wasn't even [39:19] a cheap subscription like it wasn't like [39:21] hey thanks so much for being a loyal [39:23] customer for five years we're going to [39:25] let you host for 20 bucks a month no it [39:27] was like $40 a month or something and I [39:30] was like ah forget it and it had limits [39:32] like it was like $40 a month and you [39:34] know you're almost at your limit already [39:36] and so I was like no We're moving [39:38] everything to bunny.net. So, I've put [39:40] customers on bunny.net. I'm on [39:42] bunny.net. Uh, just seems like the way [39:45] to go. I mean, Vimeo, I guess, is first [39:48] class and works real well. I just don't [39:49] like the surprise invoice you get down [39:51] the road. [39:51] >> Yeah, that's what I've heard. I have [39:53] I've not been hit with that because I [39:54] don't I'm not nearly as popular as some [39:56] people I know. But, uh uh but I have I I [39:58] know people who have gotten the bills [39:59] for tens of thousands of dollars if you [40:01] want to continue and they've had to move [40:02] off. So, [40:03] >> we'll get you on more podcasts. You'll [40:04] get more popular. [40:07] I'm usually the man deep deep [40:08] undercover. [40:10] >> So, uh, I do want to value your time. [40:12] Thank you so much for coming on the show [40:13] because I've invited you before and you [40:15] were like, "I'm not ready. I'm not [40:16] ready. I'm not ready." [40:18] >> No. Now, here you are. So, this is [40:19] awesome. Folks, if you um if you haven't [40:23] checked out Cribops or you've never [40:24] heard of Cribops before, I encourage you [40:26] to do so. I know Jim personally. He's an [40:28] upstanding dude. At least give it a [40:30] look. Um, Jim, if you give anybody any [40:34] extra details or maybe plug Lerty before [40:37] we get off the call because Lertie is [40:38] really cool, too. Yeah. [40:39] >> Um, plug that. And then uh [40:44] since they're existing [40:47] uh enterprises, since they're existing [40:48] agencies, uh is the migration process [40:52] part of the move or is that on their [40:54] shoulders? [40:55] >> Uh it uh it is part of the move. So, we [40:58] actually uh have a kind of no plug-in [41:00] required uh script for some types of uh [41:03] sites and we'll continue to to work [41:05] that. So, like if you have shell access [41:07] like a c panel or a grid pane for [41:10] example. In fact, I I'm just finishing [41:11] up the grid pane uh migration uh today [41:14] uh where it'll just do it automatically [41:16] with a with a button click. You drop [41:19] your your key in from your source and it [41:22] will just make it happen. [41:24] >> I love auto [41:24] >> server to server with no plugins. Yep. [41:27] and no no need to log in on on the other [41:29] side. So yeah. [41:30] >> Yes, we have that. [41:31] >> Yeah. [41:32] >> So yeah, people to go [41:34] >> Yeah. So you go to cribops.com [41:36] is the website and cribops pretty much [41:38] anywhere uh that that you know social [41:42] media wise uh Kurt also mentioned uh [41:46] Lerty. So I am also the uh chief [41:48] technology officer and a developer there [41:50] for Lertie which is a automation tool [41:53] that that's pretty slick. Uh that is [41:56] lury.a AI um and you can go out there [41:59] and take a look at that. That's [42:00] basically if you are a um an AI agency [42:03] or you're someone that has built agents, [42:06] whether that's on NAD or Zapier or Make [42:09] or one of those kinds of of things and [42:11] you want to be able to take that uh that [42:14] product or that that agent and sell it [42:17] as a service or you just want to use it [42:20] uh uh you know have a second brain and [42:22] have a conversation with your phone and [42:24] have it categorize and and build things. [42:26] We have uh on Lerty we have free tiers [42:29] and $29 a month tiers and you know $200 [42:32] $200 a month if you're an agency if you [42:34] want to you know sell this and make [42:36] money with it. Uh lerty.ai. Go check it [42:38] out. [42:39] >> Yeah, cool stuff. Jim, thanks so much. [42:41] Folks, Jim Henkins, check them out. [42:44] There'll be some links in the show notes [42:45] for you. Uh so don't worry if you didn't [42:47] hear him say it. You know, the notes [42:48] will be in the description and we'll see [42:50] you next time.