Ep. 319: The Language of GTD  ## Metadata - Author: [[Getting Things Done]] - Full Title: Ep. 319: The Language of GTD - Category: #podcasts - URL: https://share.snipd.com/episode/739a5fda-f23f-4298-9264-20b0aaa933d5 ## Document Notes ## Highlights - **Longtime Friends Turned Partners** - Noa and Idit met in high school in a biology class and initially did not like each other. - Over many years, they became close friends and lifelong partners personally and professionally. Transcript: John Forrester Hi. Hello. Who's who? In case someone's watching this on webcam, please introduce yourself. Noa I'm Edith, the one with the curly hair the big hair is Edith yes hi and my name is Noah and I'm here also great and you can never get confused between us I was just before we started here um John Forrester I was I was asking uh how have you known each other and then the photo Edith that is over your your left shoulder came out of hiding so tell us the story of how you met each other because it's Clearly before you were involved with GTD and being the GTD partners there exactly long long years ago. Idit So I was showing you just this picture 30 years ago. We've been friends since we were 16. And I think that what Noah just started saying that you can never get confused because we're so different. I think it's one of these classic stories of someone that you see that you think, yeah, I can never connect with that person. So for me, seeing or hearing her for the first time in high school, I was sure that she will never be my friend. And she's, I think, one of the deepest, most profound relationship that I had in my life. Wow. Yeah. I'm so fortunate to be working with someone who knows me that well and loves me so much. And I love her as well. Well, for me, the story is not very different. Noa Yes, we met in high school. It was a biology class. And we were there together with a great teacher called Judith Ophir. And we were studying together. We didn't like each other at first. But as you can see, so and so years later, we're still together and we're still friends. ([Time 0:00:24](https://share.snipd.com/snip/2ac9fc06-44d8-476e-8a14-d264088d20da)) - **GTD's Cultural Fit and Depth** - GTD offers a deep, profound methodology that fits Israel's informal, close-knit culture. - Certification strengthened their confidence and understanding of the method's value. Transcript: Idit One of the things that we decided right away from the beginning was that we want to represent the methodology in Israel and not just take a shortcut and talk of GTD we wanted to have the Certification and we wanted to have it exclusive. And I think this is one of the biggest decisions that we made, because when you first see or read of GTD, you don't get how profound and deep the ideas and the perceptions are. And just by getting certified, we got stronger. Noah was certain that she was all that task-oriented and that she's all good. And I was certain that I'm too creative for GTD. And both of those were just blew off the window. Noa Yeah, I remember myself sitting with David Allen and Anna Maria, and I was thinking to myself, you know, very like, okay, let's see what he can teach me, you know? And I was like, oh, my God. It took me about 10 minutes in the course. Yeah. Speaker 4 Oh, okay. Noa I don't know a thing about it. John Forrester I bet that would have been fun to listen in on or watch the two of the two of you working with david and anna maria and yeah yeah you can ask anna maria she has a lot of things to do a lot of things To say about it yes she knows i'm i'm recording an interview with her with you so she'll be excited to hear this. Noa Yeah. John Forrester So that means you heard about GTD at around the same time, one of you maybe a little before the other. And when in here did you start the company, Skills Boutique? Was it just before that? Did you start it in order to teach GTD? Idit We moved pretty fast. I think that one of the things that we decided right away is that we're not going to stop. We want to see how things roll. And we started in a very lean way. We just understand that we're not going to give up the process of getting certified and being, you know, all 100% professional about it. So we said, okay, let's sign and promote GTD and launch Skills Boutique in Israel, even though that from the start we knew that the main thing will be gtd we wanted just to have you know The skills idea as a vision is something that we both relate to in our own personal life we think that skill is something that you need to always master and work ([Time 0:11:38](https://share.snipd.com/snip/c6e86117-5472-4047-bb6d-82b77789a513)) - **Skeptical to Enthusiastic Learner** - Noa initially thought GTD was for highly organized people and was skeptical. - After taking the course, she was amazed at how much she learned in a short time. Transcript: Idit And work on and be open to being you know adjusting yourself and your skills to the reality. Noa So Skills Boutique and GTD Israel were launched at the same time. Got it. John Forrester Okay. Noa So we thought about how are we going to launch the GTD and Skills Boutique in Israel? And we were driving. It was near Haifa. I think it was, yeah, I think it was, I don't know driving me to the train station i'm not sure she was like okay so how are we going to launch you know you remember david said that he's there For us and if we will invite him he will come to Israel yeah yeah so I told her okay then I think that's good let's yeah you decided to find out whether he was just talking or whether he meant It yeah you know we're ([Time 0:14:30](https://share.snipd.com/snip/66205884-b31c-4db2-af4a-79d3aea70d07)) - **Teach Managers to Measure Outcomes** - Managers must learn to measure productivity by outcomes, not just physical presence. - Educate managers first, then teams, to effectively handle hybrid work challenges. Transcript: Idit We were fortunate to you know this process of understanding productivity and bringing a different angle to that. Because I think that one of the things that we always preach is the difference between time management and productivity as a toolkit, as a mindset, as a skill. So I think one of the things that we, by today, even today, when people tell me, yeah, but I see what's urgent and what's important, and then I have the metrics going on, and you say, okay, But it's not enough. This is 2024. It's not enough, right? And the thing that we had over there when COVID started, we had, well, all businesses first shut down. So we had like, you know, a very scary two, three months until business really started flowing. But I think that DTD really helped us push through COVID. John Forrester Did you find that most of your clients had adapted pretty well to hybrid work situations, being able to work on Zoom all of a sudden? How much of a kind of a learning curve was that for your clients? Idit It was very challenging. It was very challenging here in Israel. And I think that what we see today is the companies fight on bringing people back to the offices. I don't know how do you feel it in the US, but Israel is a very small country. From home a lot of companies right now insist on working from the office because there's lack of motivation or structure and i think that one of the things that really adds up to that is The skill element because it takes the skill to sit down and focus and be able to avoid distraction. So everything is like the flow of work and life blended together when you're working in hybrid is more challenging. You need to be stronger on the skills. Noa And another angle of it is that we think that managers, they don't know how to measure the productivity, you know, when people work from home. So, and also measure, you know, the team productivity. So, it's kind of, let's educate the manager first and then the team and the employees. So, it's kind of a very big issue. I think a lot of companies in Israel started to work four days a week from the office. Yeah. And it's a lot. John Forrester Yeah. Noa And I think part of the thing is that they don't know how to measure and they don't have the skills, you know, and and of course there is the trust issue. Right. John Forrester Yeah. They know how to measure whether somebody is sitting in a chair a certain number of hours a day, but it's a different thing to measure productivity. ([Time 0:18:50](https://share.snipd.com/snip/9064c217-fb54-4762-b6a8-d5b724065f56)) - **Culture's Impact on Productivity** - Company culture strongly influences productivity beyond just skills training. - Employees often do complex work at home because office environments hinder focus. Transcript: John Forrester Way the employees don't say, wait a minute, I learned all this good stuff, my manager won't let me use it because my manager is still back in the past where all that matters is whether I'm Punching the clock to be here for a certain number of hours. Idit When we were presenting a speech talking about why you shouldn't just buy or invite time management workshops. And one of the organizers of the convention told us, but you should say the opposite. No, you should encourage companies to order a workshop on time management. They say, yeah, no, we're not doing that. We're talking about a skill, but we are always emphasizing the part and the responsibility that managers and companies culture and the way they affect stronger on the skill because You know laying all the responsibility on the employees and telling them yeah yeah we've ordered you a workshop go train yourself when you know the messages and the pressure and the John Forrester Culture is 24 7 work and right yeah the i the culture is such a big part of it for so many employees that they realize I can have all of the time management training that the manager can throw At me. But if the culture isn't supporting productivity, it doesn't matter. Noa And we hear some issues from participants in our workshops, in GTV workshops, that they say, we do the complex work at home. John Forrester Oh, yeah, that's one ([Time 0:22:30](https://share.snipd.com/snip/7be6480b-7fdb-469e-b5de-99083dce5787)) - **Allow Employee Autonomy and Focus** - Give employees autonomy to prioritize and decide when to focus without constant interruptions. - Avoid overloading employees with random tasks to enhance productivity and focus. Transcript: John Forrester Lot in there, a lot involved in. Idit Just that one little sentence, do the complex work at home because when they're in the office they cannot really hold focus because everything is so distracting and people really you Know they struggle with getting themselves really their task prioritized correctly and sometimes they feel they lack the autonomy of making the decision of where to be, you know, Available and where not. How you can balance your present and your focus when everything is all over, moving and distracting you all the time and your manager is all the time in your face or asking questions or Throwing stuff at you. So I think that we always, we tend to emphasize this to HR managers and OD managers that people really need more quiet time. Let them have it, let them prioritize, let them make decisions. Don't just jump ahead with any idea or any task that pops up in your head and throw it over the employee with just any second. John Forrester How do managers react when ([Time 0:24:30](https://share.snipd.com/snip/e25d660e-9b96-4546-9ae2-b1a5187f08d8)) - **Choose One Tool for Structure** - Avoid overly flexible tool policies that cause chaos; instead, choose one tool for consistency. - Structure and simplicity often help productivity more than too much freedom. Transcript: Idit And we asked them what are their tools and one of the really high-ranked managers told us yeah we believe that each company each department can choose her own tool each every employee For us will give them the freedom to choose their tools. But then they created this messy, complex situation where sales rather work with Asana and customers success rather work with Monday. And marketing teams loves working with Microsoft to do. And then it's like, why? Why? And she says, I'm all flexible. For me, flexibility is the value in our company of values. And we're like, yeah, but it doesn't make sense. Sometimes they don't need freedom. This is where they need structure, clean structure. It doesn't matter what tool. They're all good. Monday is good. Asana is good. They're all good. Just choose one. John Forrester And this is coming from the creative or disorganized, messy one of you saying this. Exactly. Idit Exactly. I was the one prior to recording. I told John that for me, you know, that was not like a thing. It was never a thing. I'm ([Time 0:28:15](https://share.snipd.com/snip/99f9af62-f217-496e-bcd2-2a09ae28a6e3))