Ep. 331: Exploration of GTD for Educators  ## Metadata - Author: [[Getting Things Done]] - Full Title: Ep. 331: Exploration of GTD for Educators - Category: #podcasts - URL: https://share.snipd.com/episode/8d74ed6a-f6f7-4026-a384-e26c7792ee93 ## Document Notes ## Highlights - **GTD Saved Two Educators' Sanity** - Erik Johnson is a high-school social studies teacher in a 3,000-student Chicago school and says GTD saved him from burnout in year five. - David Drake is a research professor who credits long-term GTD practice with preserving his sanity. Transcript: John Forrester Thanks for having us. Erik Johnson I'm Eric Johnson. I am a high school social studies teacher in Chicago Public Schools. I teach at a really large school. We've got about 3,000 students, 170 teachers. I teach sociology, honors sociology, and freshman seminar, which is a special class that teaches students how to survive high school and become adults. And just a bit about where I'm at professionally, this is my fifth year teaching. This is sort of the make or break point where a lot of high school teachers burn out, and GTD has saved me from that. ([Time 0:00:38](https://share.snipd.com/snip/36a9b955-f765-46a8-8727-77f4bb8cae74)) - **Distinct Educator Focus Areas** - Educators have unique areas of focus like mentoring, grant writing, and departmental service that differ from many professions. - Labeling these distinct areas helps capture projects and responsibilities clearly. Transcript: David Drake I can speak to that. Yeah, I would think so because since I mentor graduate students, postdoctoral fellows, and junior faculty, one of my areas of focus I just have labeled as mentor. So all of the projects and actions and waiting for is within that area of focus. I'm research director for my clinical department, and so that's an area of focus. I have collegiate service, university service, national service, national board service. All of those things are separate areas of focus that I maintain. And of course then I have teaching and I have that as an area of focus, teaching. And so I give a number of lectures to classes. Usually the largest is usually around 85 students. Most of the time with graduate students, it's much smaller. As an area of focus, I have NIH grant writing as an area of focus. We're always writing grants. We're never satisfied with the level of support we have from the federal government, so we keep writing more and more grants. So that's all from the professional side. ([Time 0:04:28](https://share.snipd.com/snip/7c69089a-0d91-47b8-a3c3-bd90269bb4d5)) - **Make Each Course A Project** - Treat each course as a project rather than creating tiny project entries for every lesson. - Avoid excessive sub-projects unless a course activity truly needs multi-step tracking. Transcript: John Forrester This is a question that's come up in the forum and from students who are practicing GTD. They'll write in and say, should I make every class a project or are there projects within classes? How granular should I be about this as a student? And I'd love to hear what you both say about that as educators. Where do you put projects and how many sub projects and that sort of thing do you do? Erik Johnson You know, this is something that I feel pretty passionate about it. When I started GTD, I spent a lot of time reading old GTD forum threads in terms of how people in similar roles attack this and how students attack this. Because I ran into a similar issue where, you know, you could get really microscopic in terms of making projects for individual lesson plans, individual materials, things like that. And it became unwieldy. And so I had to step back. And for me, I have a project for each like class section that I teach. So this year, one for sociology, one for freshman seminar. And then any other, you know, more than two step things that I have to tackle, of which there are many, I'll make projects out of those. But in terms of classes and things that are going on in the classes, I just restrict it to a project per class. David Drake Okay. John Forrester And David, how about you? David Drake Actually, I'm exactly the same. All the courses that I teach, each course is a project. I don't get any granular than that because you could. I mean, you could get, you know, there's little mini sub projects within each course, of course. But for the most part, I try to avoid sub-projects. ([Time 0:07:17](https://share.snipd.com/snip/bc0bb349-16d3-4183-9a6c-a39007e2d02e)) - **Match Granularity To Usefulness** - Keep your GTD structure as granular as helps you without becoming unwieldy; tailor it to personal benefit. - If extra detail reduces your stress and increases completion, use it; otherwise step back. Transcript: Erik Johnson You know, this is something that I feel pretty passionate about it. When I started GTD, I spent a lot of time reading old GTD forum threads in terms of how people in similar roles attack this and how students attack this. Because I ran into a similar issue where, you know, you could get really microscopic in terms of making projects for individual lesson plans, individual materials, things like that. And it became unwieldy. And so I had to step back. And for me, I have a project for each like class section that I teach. So this year, one for sociology, one for freshman seminar. And then any other, you know, more than two step things that I have to tackle, of which there are many, I'll make projects out of those. But in terms of classes and things that are going on in the classes, I just restrict it to a project per class. David Drake Okay. John Forrester And David, how about you? David Drake Actually, I'm exactly the same. All the courses that I teach, each course is a project. I don't get any granular than that because you could. I mean, you could get, you know, there's little mini sub projects within each course, of course. But for the most part, I try to avoid sub-projects. But sometimes you have to have some of those. But yeah, every course is a project and that way I can see where I am within the course and move accordingly. John Forrester Would you both advise students who were practicing GTD to treat classes something like that as projects? Erik Johnson I was actually teaching a colleague GTD, so I was in sort of a similar situation. And I think I stressed when I was teaching my coworker, you need to make this as nitty gritty and specific as is beneficial to you. You could turn literally every single thing that you have academically into something that's more than two steps into a project. If you're a teacher, you you could make literally every lesson plan its own project. But at a certain point, you have to step back and say, like, is this making me like mobile and agile? Am I able to complete my work better because I'm getting so specific? And I think thinking from a GTD perspective, like if it's relieving your stress, absolutely do that. Right? If that makes you feel better and helps you be more productive, but it's good not to get overburdened ([Time 0:07:40](https://share.snipd.com/snip/84faa72f-c6f9-4087-8131-1d22baa1ed57)) - **Teach GTD By Doing It** - Keep agenda lists for mentees and train them by example so they adopt GTD practices. - Use visible systems and actions to teach colleagues and trainees GTD implicitly. Transcript: David Drake And so I maintain it that way. So I'll have an agenda list for Dr. So-and And then if things come up in my mind that I want to talk to him or her about, then I will go ahead and add it to the agenda. John Forrester And so I just- You're already training them about GTD even without explicitly telling them. Exactly, exactly. David Drake In fact, they asked me about it. And actually, I give presentations to clinical departments and to my colleagues all the time about how to navigate with all of the inputs. And of course, GTD is the cornerstone of everything that I teach. And so yeah, yeah, I think it's that old adage that actions are a lot louder than words. And so when they actually see me doing these things, then they realize, wow, this must work pretty well because Dr. So-and is doing this and he's senior. He knows everything. ([Time 0:10:18](https://share.snipd.com/snip/efb929a1-9cca-4352-95a0-3882b64ce5c8)) - **Time Block, Then Revalidate** - Use time blocking to protect high-focus work but review blocks before starting to ensure priorities haven't changed. - Don’t turn a to-do list into rigid calendar tasks you can’t realistically complete. Transcript: John Forrester How about you? What sort of pushback or resonance do you get? David Drake Well, I think, and I had mentioned to you before, so faculty are, I think, natural planners, if you pardon the pun. I mean, faculty are taught from an early stage. You plan out your semester or quarter, depending on if you're on a semester or quarter system. Plan out your semester. You have your major projects, you know the due dates or whatever, and then you backward plan and you decide, okay, these are the weeks I'm going to do this and this and this. And that's what we're taught early on. And so when I, faculty love the whole idea of capturing all the inputs. I mean, that really opens some eyes and they really love that. And And clarifying what it means to them, putting in a trusted system. They love that concept of a trusted system. Organizing it, reviewing it, they love that. If you will, where they have some issues. They say, well, I can't decide in the moment, every moment, what to do next because I have all of these major projects, all these due dates. I like to plan things out. I like to see on my calendar, okay, I got this time blocked off for that project. I got this time. And I do the same thing. ([Time 0:13:41](https://share.snipd.com/snip/74d29b6c-d5df-498c-a027-5a566749ec7e)) - **Interruptions As Priority Shifts** - Classroom work is inherently interruption-heavy, so view interruptions as shifts in immediate priorities. - GTD provides a tactical framework to handle dynamic daily changes without losing presence. Transcript: Erik Johnson I mean, sort of exactly tied into what I was saying before. I mean, every day in the classroom in high school comes with surprises. You know, I've had kids stab themselves on notebooks. Somebody throws up. There's an assembly that nobody told you about. And, you know, that usually is pretty fun. Suddenly you're going to watch like people play drums all day or something. But, you know, your best laid plans are regularly shifted and adjusted. And I think one of the biggest things beyond the GTD system, allowing you to sort of tactically change plans is this philosophy that, you know, interruptions are just shifts in immediate Priorities. And I wonder if David can echo this as well, but people in teaching roles, I feel like often get really mad when their stuff gets interrupted or their plans get changed. I think teachers really feel like what they have to say is the most important thing in the world. And I won't disagree with that. But, you know, knowing that you have the system to help you navigate that interruption is really helpful. David Drake Yeah, yeah, I agree completely, Eric. And that's the beauty and strength of a GTD practice. And so, as I said, I put time blocks on again, it's just to protect my time if I need to focus on something in the morning. ([Time 0:19:33](https://share.snipd.com/snip/d75088aa-eaaa-433c-91e5-f7166ecd7a6f)) - **Use The Inbox As A Placeholder** - Use an inbox (physical or digital) to park interrupted work so you can fully engage with whoever needs you. - Processing that inbox later returns you to your task without mental clutter. Transcript: David Drake Whatever I'm working on, and I remember watching a little video from David Allen one time about if you're working on something and you get interrupted, I literally will take what I'm Working on and putting it in my inbox. I have an inbox tray here on my desk. I'll just move it over there. And then when I'm back, I'll say, Oh, that's right. Let me get this out of the inbox I'm going to process what's happened, where am I at, whatever, and move forward. John Forrester So you're using the inbox as a placeholder so that you can readily get back to where you were. And the interruption is what he would call, David Allen would call a well-managed input. Exactly. David Drake I mean, I want to be in the moment. I want to be there for whoever needs me and not have my mind sitting there looking at my project notes or whatever. I want to engage this person one-on 100%. And so by doing that, putting it in my inbox, it just releases that from my mind and now I can engage with them. ([Time 0:22:34](https://share.snipd.com/snip/27ea7c85-1edb-4487-8258-c779f2c34ec8)) - **From 'Email Me' To Capturing In Inbox** - Pre-GTD Erik told students to email him to handle classroom interruptions, which felt present but unkind. - After adopting GTD he captures requests in his inbox and addresses them later while staying present. Transcript: Erik Johnson Of my most embarrassing pre-GTD hacks for dealing with interruptions, it's very common at the start of every class. I'm trying to get materials for the period ready, and there's 14 kids that have wandered up and have varying questions. And I used to dump it back on the students, and I used to tell them, email me, and effectively turning my email inbox into sort of a GTD inbox. But I don't know, it wasn't the most like present or kind or good teacher thing to do. Kids come to you for help, you tell me, email me, and then I would help them out later. Since GTD, you know, the line of kids shows up with a million questions, and I can take whatever they need, plug it in my inbox, and then still take care of it when I have time to take care Of it. But I'm not like dumping it back on them. And I'm embarrassed. That was something I used to do in the past. John Forrester Hey, at least you had a method there and weren't just trying to hold it in your head and say, okay, I'll remember to get back to you later on that. True. Erik Johnson Which is what a lot of teachers do. ([Time 0:23:32](https://share.snipd.com/snip/26500e09-a384-476c-8fef-f6a1b06cab19)) - **Quick Review To Reprioritize** - When surprised, glance at projects, next actions, and areas of focus to decide whether to pause or add a new project. - Maintain a complete inventory so quick glances reliably inform priority shifts. Transcript: John Forrester When you start your day and when surprises show up, tell me about what you think about, what parts of your system you look at when setting priorities and reprioritizing as things show Up. David Drake So if I have a time block and let's say I was going to work on a manuscript or a grant or whatever it might be, and somebody shows up and they need to talk to me or whatever and then as i said if I had project notes as i mentioned i would put it in my inbox and come back out but maybe as a result of that conversation now there's something major that needs to be taken care of so what I will do is I will glance at obviously my projects list and next actions list, look over real quick, and I'll go up to the areas of focus. And I'll say, okay, where am I now with everything? Let me think through this a little bit. And then based on that quick review, then I'll make a decision. Do I now want to put my, this project I was working on aside for a while and go take care of this? Or will I add this problem as a project to my list, and then I'll get back to it in due course? ([Time 0:25:12](https://share.snipd.com/snip/c3916661-fb5e-4d48-95f4-14c95b4d78e2)) - **Do Tomorrow's Prep First** - Process items that affect your immediate day (like tomorrow's prep) first to stay functional during limited free pockets. - Then pick context-appropriate tasks (personal or school) based on where you are. Transcript: Erik Johnson You know, I think one of the best things GTD has done is pre-GTD, I would spend a lot of time, my sort of small slots of free time during the school day, trying to figure out what I needed to Do and often sort of remaking the same to-do list each day. Okay, I got to make copies for tomorrow. I got to make the lesson plans for tomorrow. With GTD, I sort of have my list structure such that I always am tackling the materials and prep I need to do for tomorrow first. You know, that's one recurring to-do item that I have. I use to do is currently, it's not super GTD and that it's not super specifically clarified. It just says prepare lesson plans for sociology, prepare lesson plans for freshman seminar. If you, I think, really wanted to be a good GTD or each of those would specifically be clarified as to what that lesson looked like. But that changes often and it's not necessarily the most practical. And then just following knocking out that, you know, the stuff you literally need done for tomorrow, or you're going to be that teacher that's running out in the middle of class trying To make copies. After that, I just sort of look at my list. And the cool thing about GTD, actually, and I don't know if my bosses necessarily would love to hear this, but I look at, you know, my personal stuff, I look at my school stuff, and I just Tackle strategically what's on my mind based on my context. If I'm at work and I'm at my computer and it would make me feel better if I knocked out my budgeting right now and maybe did grading later, I'll take care of that. ([Time 0:28:04](https://share.snipd.com/snip/a5930149-74ea-4333-8aac-7fad15807bfc)) - **Rethink The 'Computer' Context** - Traditional device-based contexts (like 'computer') can blur; split contexts by software or specific access needs. - Contexts should reflect where and how tasks are actually doable today. Transcript: David Drake I have, like probably most people that have practiced GTD for a long time, I have changed my context many times, trying to see what works best for me. And currently, it's kind of funny, I've come back pretty much to the standard boilerplate context in terms of I've always had agendas and errands and home, things like that. The big one that and I'm not sure I'm not going to be surprised by this. The big one that it seems to be somewhat problematic sometimes is the one called computer. And and I struggle, I have struggled with that. And my colleagues always push back on that for the main reason when they say, well, you know, back in 1990 or whatever, when everybody had these large desktop computers, and that's the Only place where you could do this kind of work, then I would understand it. Now with laptops and pads and iPhones and Android phones and all of the things that we can do just about anywhere, then they say, well, computer doesn't mean anything to me or everything's Going to be on computer. Things I've worked with some faculty with which that they really love and I think some of our colleagues on GTD Connect have talked about this is that it's like well maybe instead of computer Maybe separate it out in terms of what kind of software programs you use and so if you spend a lot of time in Microsoft Word for example then maybe have a Microsoft Word context. That means you can access it from your desktop computer. You can access it from your laptop computer. You can access it from your iPad or pad or whatever. And so there you are, you know, but you have that as a context. And so that seems to resonate pretty well with faculty. To them, that makes more sense than just saying computer. I do have a separate context that I call email slash text because I get a lot of that correspondence. Again, it's something I can do from my phone easily. And so I don't need to have that as a computer context. ([Time 0:30:34](https://share.snipd.com/snip/a3c6a82f-17df-430f-8466-72b52dad10ba)) - **Use Physical Contexts For Grading** - Create physical contexts for tasks tied to items, e.g., keep a grading-binder list so grading appears only when you have the papers. - Separate digital and physical constraints to avoid wasted task attempts. Transcript: Erik Johnson And Eric, how about you? That's interesting. I think I've had colleagues sort of similarly confused about some of the context lists and thinking about a computer list. I have my sort of digital realm divided into three sections. I have a list labeled any computer, which I include my cell phone in. It's a computer. And then I also keep a context list in terms of digital stuff, one for my laptop, my work laptop, and one for my home PC. So there's the odd, you know, there's a file that's only on my home PC that I have to address there. And then the other two lists that I keep that I think are sort of interesting and relevant to education, I keep a general office list for tasks that need to be done either in the social studies Office or administration that I got to find or meet with. For me, grading is something that's done on the computer, but is contingent on actually having the papers with me. And I sort of struggled where to keep that. And I had it on my computer list for the longest time. But then I'd be at home and I wouldn't have the papers and it would be sitting on this list where it didn't actually belong. So I keep a grading binder list. And that's where I keep all my students work in this binder. And so now I know if I've got the binder, I'm at the list, then I can look at what grading needs to be done. ([Time 0:32:56](https://share.snipd.com/snip/e08be456-8ad9-4e10-8252-4d6d1054a673)) - **Capture During Downtime** - Carry capture tools (paper pad or phone apps) so spare moments become productive mind sweeps. - Use an 'anywhere' context to triage tasks when you have brief free time. Transcript: David Drake Good. So with me, real quick, if I'm in a lecture or whatever, or in a situation where I'm proctoring an exam and I've got time, the vast majority of time I'm not looking at my list for something To do. But I never go anywhere without a paper pad, some way to capture. And so what I would do is sit and I'll just think and basically be doing a mind sweep and recording things down. I also have an app, a couple of apps where I can put it in my phone where it'll automatically send my idea right to Nirvana. There or I can have another app where it'll just go right into my email inbox. So between writing and these two apps, I'm usually just putting things out. I do have a context, an old traditional one called at anywhere. And so if I'm in a classroom and I don't have, nothing's on my mind and I don't have anything to capture, I will look at that list. Is there anything here that I can at least look at and think more about or whatever? ([Time 0:35:30](https://share.snipd.com/snip/6aebc10a-b253-4634-b9b5-217ec06895c7))