Ep. 42 Making Silly Software with Christina Martinez

Ep. 42 | Making Silly Software with Christina Martinez 🔗 **Source:** [Ep. 42 | Making Silly Software with Christina Martinez](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbmCVHvs0Pw) > [!note]+ Document Notes > tags: [devrel, developer-experience, silly-software] > author: Overcommitted Podcast > source: YouTube > reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbmCVHvs0Pw > date created: 2024-12-19 18:30 > > # 🏷️ Title: Ep. 42 | Making Silly Software with Christina Martinez >  ## 🧰 Action Inbox - [H1] Build creative side projects to practice new tech — explore websockets through "cursed" video player #devrel - [H2] Apply improv "yes and" attitude to collaborative hackathons — find like-minded partners for idea expansion #community - [H3] Start Resend newsletter at sillysoftware.club — advocate for silly software movement #content-creation ## 🧭 Table of Contents - [📝 Summary](#-summary) - [📖 Main Content](#-main-content) - [🗒️ Notes](#️-notes) - [📚 References](#-references) - [🗣️ Paraphrase](#️-paraphrase) - [📰 Newsletter](#-newsletter) - [✅ Action Items](#-action-items) - [🧪 Hypotheses](#-hypotheses) - [📊 Methodology](#-methodology) - [❓ Questions](#-questions) - [🔮 Future Research](#-future-research) - [💡 Implications](#-implications) - [🧠 Learning Styles Assessment](#-learning-styles-assessment) - [📊 Accessibility Assessment](#-accessibility-assessment) - [🌍 DEIB Assessment](#-deib-assessment) - [✅ Logical Validity](#-logical-validity) - [🛡️ DARVO Analysis](#-darvo-analysis) - [🎯 Conclusion](#-conclusion) ### 🔗 References - [Overcommitted Podcast](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbmCVHvs0Pw) - [christinacodes.dev](https://christinacodes.dev) - [sillysoftware.club](https://sillysoftware.club) ## 📝 Summary - Christina Martinez, Developer Experience Engineer at Resend, advocates for "silly software" as a way to make coding more creative and fun - She builds playful projects like Gen Z Babel plugin and "world's worst video player" to practice new technologies while adding humor - Her background combines marketing and engineering, bringing storytelling skills that help bridge technical and business needs - Key message: Side projects with creative twists make learning more engaging than standard tutorials, while building community and technical skills - Bottom line: Embracing silliness in software development creates joy, learning opportunities, and memorable experiences for developers ## 📖 Main Content Christina Martinez exemplifies how developers can inject creativity and humor into technical work through "silly software" - projects that serve practical learning goals while being genuinely entertaining. As a Developer Experience Engineer at Resend, she leverages her unique background spanning marketing and engineering. Her creative process follows two main approaches: starting with technology she wants to learn (like websockets) and building something "cursed" around it, or starting with a funny idea and finding the technical tools to make it reality. The Gen Z Babel plugin emerged from an Instagram joke about coding in Gen Z slang, while the "world's worst video player" was designed for a hackathon where one person's actions negatively impact all other viewers. Martinez argues that storytelling skills from her marketing background are crucial for engineers. Technical excellence alone isn't enough - developers need to communicate why their work matters and get others excited about it. Her video player won the Mux competition not just for technical implementation, but because it told a coherent story about group project dynamics that everyone could relate to. The transition from pure software engineering to developer experience allows her to blend technical skills with creative opportunities, like building interactive email history installations at conferences. She emphasizes that silly software serves as an outlet that actually enables more focused seriousness during work hours. ## 🗒️ Notes #### ⏱️ [00:00](https://youtu.be/WbmCVHvs0Pw?t=0) — [H1] Introduction and Current Obsessions - Key idea: Christina is learning custom knitting patterns, restoring vintage electronics, and organizing dev events - Evidence: "I made my Resend sock... working on getting a 1995 Macintosh online... organizing dev meetups for 2026" #### ⏱️ [02:30](https://youtu.be/WbmCVHvs0Pw?t=150) — [H2] Creative Process for Silly Software - Key idea: Two approaches - start with technology to learn or start with funny idea to implement - Evidence: "I wanted to learn about websockets... built Mux's worst video player" and "started with joke Instagram video about Gen Z coding" #### ⏱️ [04:45](https://youtu.be/WbmCVHvs0Pw?t=285) — [H3] Worst Video Player Mechanics - Key idea: Collaborative video experience where individual actions affect everyone negatively - Evidence: "All the controls are complicated and you control the experience for everyone else" #### ⏱️ [06:20](https://youtu.be/WbmCVHvs0Pw?t=380) — [H2] Collaboration vs Solo Development - Key idea: Solo work provides control, collaboration brings unexpected directions through "yes and" improv attitude - Evidence: "Finding someone that's likeminded... they're able to take projects in ways you could never expect" #### ⏱️ [07:15](https://youtu.be/WbmCVHvs0Pw?t=435) — [H3] Swift Commits Tool - Key idea: Taylor Swift-themed semantic commit message generator using song lyrics - Evidence: "Choose the era... choose different lyrics... describe how you feel about your code" #### ⏱️ [08:30](https://youtu.be/WbmCVHvs0Pw?t=510) — [H2] Bringing Joy to Daily Work - Key idea: Side projects serve as creative outlet enabling professional seriousness at work - Evidence: "Side projects are a way to get it out of my system... so I'm not the class clown at work" #### ⏱️ [10:45](https://youtu.be/WbmCVHvs0Pw?t=645) — [H2] Developer Experience Role Benefits - Key idea: DX engineering combines technical skills with creative opportunities and customer interaction - Evidence: "More creative, some soft skills... big say in product by talking to customers" #### ⏱️ [12:00](https://youtu.be/WbmCVHvs0Pw?t=720) — [H3] Famous Emails Installation - Key idea: Interactive conference exhibit featuring historically significant emails - Evidence: "First email sent from space, first spam email, Queen Elizabeth II first head of state email" #### ⏱️ [15:30](https://youtu.be/WbmCVHvs0Pw?t=930) — [H2] Marketing to Engineering Transition - Key idea: HTML editing frustration during Black Friday led to coding education and career pivot - Evidence: "Hated being really bad at recurrent part of my job... fell in love with coding after Code Academy" #### ⏱️ [19:45](https://youtu.be/WbmCVHvs0Pw?t=1185) — [H2] Learning Focus on Events and Community - Key idea: Small company growth requires new event organization and community building skills - Evidence: "29 employees now... wanting to host more events... new soft skills challenges" #### ⏱️ [21:30](https://youtu.be/WbmCVHvs0Pw?t=1290) — [H1] Storytelling in Engineering - Key idea: Technical projects need compelling narratives to help people understand why they should care - Evidence: "Story helped sell it... won competition and flew to New York... faithfully telling story of what product is" #### ⏱️ [25:15](https://youtu.be/WbmCVHvs0Pw?t=1515) — [H2] Marketing Background Superpowers - Key idea: Relationship building and connecting people beyond stereotypical engineer assumptions - Evidence: "Different soft skills... connecting people... meeting people from different companies at conferences" #### ⏱️ [27:45](https://youtu.be/WbmCVHvs0Pw?t=1665) — [H3] First Speaking Engagement - Key idea: React Miami talk about silly software despite public speaking fears - Evidence: "Going to try to convince people to build more silly software... being scared is not good reason not to try" #### ⏱️ [31:00](https://youtu.be/WbmCVHvs0Pw?t=1860) — [H3] Travel Recommendations - Key idea: Spain recommendations focus on Sevilla for classic architecture and Malaga for coastal perfection - Evidence: "Sevilla most classically Spanish... Malaga closest to my heart, perfect city on beach" ## 📚 References - [christinacodes.dev](https://christinacodes.dev) - [Silly Software Club Newsletter](https://sillysoftware.club) - [Overcommitted Podcast](https://overcommitted.fm/) - [Resend](https://resend.com/) ## 🗣️ Paraphrase - Creative side projects that combine learning with humor make technical education more engaging than standard tutorials - Developer experience engineering blends technical skills with storytelling and community building for greater product impact - Marketing backgrounds provide valuable relationship and narrative skills that complement engineering technical capabilities ## 📰 Newsletter **Making Development Delightful: The Case for Silly Software** This week's Overcommitted podcast featured Christina Martinez from Resend, who's pioneering the "silly software" movement - using humor and creativity to make coding more engaging and educational. Christina's approach is brilliant: instead of building another todo app to learn websockets, she created the "world's worst video player" where one person's actions ruin everyone else's experience. The Gen Z Babel plugin transforms code into slang. These projects teach real skills while creating memorable, shareable experiences. **Key takeaway**: Side projects with creative twists often teach more than serious tutorials because they force you to think differently about problems and maintain engagement longer. For WordPress developers, this could mean building a "Gutenberg block that judges your content choices" or a "plugin that translates your code comments into Shakespearean English." The technical learning is the same, but the joy factor makes all the difference. Resources: [Learn WordPress](https://learn.wordpress.org/), [Developer Docs](https://developer.wordpress.org/), [WP-CLI](https://wp-cli.org/) ## ✅ Action Items #### DevRel - Developer advocacy: Champion silly software movement through conference talks, demos showing creative learning approaches - Education: Design workshops combining serious technical learning with playful project outcomes - Developer experience: Create interactive installation-style documentation and onboarding experiences - Community management: Foster "yes and" collaborative environment in hackathons and side projects #### WordPress - Core: Experiment with creative learning tools for contributor onboarding - Community: Develop hackathon formats that encourage silly software for skill building - Training: Create lesson plans that use humor and creativity to teach technical concepts - Design: Research how playful elements improve developer tool adoption ## 🧪 Hypotheses - Creative constraints in side projects lead to deeper technical learning than structured tutorials - Developers with marketing backgrounds bring valuable storytelling skills that improve technical communication - "Silly software" serves as creative outlet that enhances rather than detracts from professional work quality - Cross-functional experience creates more effective developer experience professionals ### 📊 Methodology - Track learning retention comparing creative vs traditional coding tutorials - Survey developers on storytelling skill development and career progression correlation - Measure engagement metrics for playful vs serious technical content ### ❓ Questions - How can we systematically integrate creative constraints into technical education? - What specific storytelling frameworks work best for technical project communication? - How do we balance silly software advocacy with serious enterprise development needs? ### 🔮 Future Research - Effectiveness of humor-driven technical education across different learning styles - Career progression patterns for developers with cross-functional marketing experience - Community building through creative coding projects and hackathons ### 💡 Implications - Practice: Side projects with creative twists may provide better skill development than traditional tutorials - Education: Technical curricula could benefit from incorporating storytelling and humor elements - Community: Developer events and hackathons should encourage "yes and" collaborative attitudes - Funding: Supporting playful technical projects may yield unexpected innovation and community engagement ### 🧠 Learning Styles Assessment Reading level estimate: 10th Grade (Flesch-Kincaid) #### 👀 Visual learners - Present: Project screenshots, conference installation photos - Improve: Diagrams showing silly software development process, before/after code comparisons #### 🔊 Aural learners - Present: Full podcast audio with natural conversation flow - Improve: Audio highlights reel, conference talk recordings #### 🗣️ Verbal learners - Present: Clear definitions of "silly software," analogies to improv comedy - Improve: Glossary of DevRel terms, storytelling framework examples #### 🧩 Kinesthetic learners - Present: Hands-on project examples, interactive installations - Improve: Step-by-step silly software creation guide, hackathon participation checklist #### 🧠 Logical learners - Present: Two-approach framework for creative projects - Improve: Decision trees for project selection, ROI metrics for silly software #### 🧑‍🤝‍🧑 Social learners - Present: Collaboration stories, conference networking experiences - Improve: Community challenges, peer review processes for creative projects #### 🧘‍♀️ Solitary learners - Present: Individual project development stories - Improve: Self-assessment rubrics, personal reflection prompts #### 🌿 Naturalistic learners - Present: Organic career transition narrative - Improve: Ecosystem thinking about developer communities, growth metaphors ### 📊 Accessibility Assessment #### Screen reader semantics - Present: Clear heading structure, conversational content - Improve: Image alt text for project screenshots, ARIA labels for audio content #### Keyboard navigation - Present: Standard podcast player controls - Improve: Timestamp navigation, transcript search functionality #### Contrast and readability - Present: Standard podcast format with transcript - Improve: High contrast transcript display options #### Text resizing and reflow - Present: Responsive transcript formatting - Improve: Font size controls, line spacing options #### Media and captions - Present: Full transcript provided - Improve: Synchronized captions, speaker identification #### Forms and interactions - Present: Basic podcast subscription - Improve: Accessible newsletter signup, feedback forms ### 🌍 DEIB Assessment #### Cultural breadth - Present: International travel discussion, Spain cultural appreciation - Improve: Global developer community examples, diverse silly software projects #### Inclusive language - Present: Gender-neutral terms, accessible technical explanations - Improve: Define industry jargon, avoid regional idioms #### Neurodiversity support - Present: Structured conversation with clear topics - Improve: Content warnings for career change discussions, sensory considerations #### Representation - Present: Woman in tech leadership role, non-traditional career path - Improve: Diverse guest examples, varied cultural perspectives #### Psychological safety - Present: Supportive tone around career transitions and learning - Improve: Explicit encouragement for imposter syndrome, failure normalization ### ✅ Logical Validity #### Strong reasoning - Deductive strength: Career transition logic well-supported with specific examples - Inductive strength: Silly software benefits generalized from multiple project examples - Causal reasoning: Clear connection between marketing background and storytelling skills - Analogical strength: Improv comedy comparison effectively illustrates collaboration principles #### Fallacies - Selection bias: Only successful silly software examples presented, may not represent typical outcomes - Survivorship bias: Focus on positive career transition without discussing challenges or failures #### Tone of voice - Overall tone: Enthusiastic and encouraging with authentic personal storytelling and practical insights ### 🛡️ DARVO Analysis - Deny: No denial patterns observed - Attack: No attack rhetoric present - Reverse victim/offender: No victim/offender dynamics - Emotional cues and rhetoric: Positive, encouraging tone focused on empowerment and learning ## 🎯 Conclusion Christina Martinez demonstrates how "silly software" can transform technical learning from routine skill-building into joyful creative expression. Her approach of starting with either interesting technology or funny ideas creates memorable projects that teach real skills while building community connections. The key insight is that creativity and humor don't detract from technical seriousness—they enhance it by providing emotional engagement that makes learning stick. For developers at any career stage, incorporating playful elements into side projects can accelerate skill development while building a personal brand that opens --- ## Full Transcript [00:00] Welcome to the Overcommitted Podcast, [00:02] your weekly dose of real engineering [00:04] conversations. I am your host this week, [00:06] Erica. And I'm joined by Hey, I'm [00:09] Britney. Hi, I'm Bethany. The three of [00:11] us met while working on a team at GitHub [00:13] and quickly realized we are all obsessed [00:16] with getting better at what we do. So, [00:18] we decided to start this podcast to [00:19] share what we've learned. We'll be [00:21] talking about everything from leveling [00:23] up your technical skills to navigating [00:25] your professional development. All with [00:27] the goal of creating a community where [00:29] engineers can learn and connect. Today [00:31] on Overcommitted, we are joined by [00:33] Christina Martinez, a developer [00:36] experience engineer from Reend and a [00:39] pass advocate for making silly software. [00:42] So, welcome Christina. Thank you. I'm [00:44] excited to be here. [00:45] >> To kick us off, what's one thing you are [00:47] currently building or obsessed with [00:49] learning with right now? [00:50] >> Yeah. Well, I'll start start with [00:52] something mostly aimed at Britney right [00:54] now. We are fiber arts friends. She [00:56] crochets and I knit. So, I'm learning [00:59] how to make like custom knitting [01:00] patterns. So, I I made my recend sock. [01:03] So, that's one thing. Um, and then I [01:06] have two others. One is I'm getting [01:08] really into like old electronic [01:10] nostalgia lately. So, you can see if [01:12] you're listening, I have like a [01:14] Macintosh from 1995 behind me in my [01:17] office and I'm working on getting that [01:18] online. Um, I bought an iPod Nano [01:21] recently, so working on that. Uh, and [01:23] then the third thing is events. I've [01:25] been to a ton of events with my new job [01:27] at Resend and now we're working on [01:30] organizing some more like dev meetups [01:33] and things like that for 2026. So, um, [01:37] really breaking down like what makes [01:38] events worthwhile and fun and exciting [01:41] to go to and figuring out all the [01:43] logistics. So, that's been a new [01:45] challenge for me. I've been in just a [01:47] software engineering role for quite a [01:49] while and so it's like new kind of soft [01:51] skills challenges which has been [01:52] interesting. [01:53] >> It's very cool. Yeah. I always feel like [01:54] the end of the year there's a lot of [01:56] nostalgia with like the year look back [01:59] in general but yeah anything like early [02:02] tech is also fun. I was reminded of the [02:04] like cousins's music video moment where [02:07] like it Kelly Roland was like texting [02:10] trying to like text uh through an Excel [02:13] spreadsheet on her like Nokia. Um yeah, [02:17] in that one music video. Anyway, I like [02:19] had forgotten about that this morning. I [02:22] was like, "Oh my gosh, that's so funny." [02:23] Yeah, it's always so fun to look back at [02:25] like old movies and stuff and see the [02:27] tech that they had. It's It's just [02:29] great. [02:30] >> Yeah. reminder that we are all human and [02:32] tech moves fast. Um, cool. Well, um, we [02:39] have to ask about some of these really [02:42] fun projects that you have done in your [02:44] time as a software engineer. You are the [02:47] creative mind behind the Gen Z Babel [02:51] plugin and the Swift commits tool. And [02:55] you say that you're kind of on this big [02:58] push for silly software and that you [03:01] prefer it over standard corporate apps. [03:04] So what's kind of creative process [03:06] there? Are you actively hunting for ways [03:09] to make coding a little more fun and [03:12] ridiculous or did the natural the ideas [03:14] kind of come as a natural discovery? I [03:16] think it comes kind of naturally. I [03:19] appreciate, you know, kind of like [03:20] boring software and even like the [03:22] company that I work for that could be [03:25] categorized as boring. It's emails and [03:27] that's really important to keep the [03:28] infrastructure intact and working how it [03:31] should be. But I think it makes it [03:33] really fun and exciting to work on [03:35] things that are a little more creative. [03:37] And so yeah, I think I use silly [03:40] software in two ways. One is like I just [03:43] learned a concept. I want to apply it [03:45] somehow and kind of like practice, but I [03:47] want to make it kind of fun instead of [03:49] just building like another to-do app or [03:51] a calculator app or something. And so, [03:53] one example of that was I wanted to [03:55] learn about websockets. And so, that's [03:57] when I built the Muk's worst video [04:00] player that we can talk about a little [04:02] later, but um I I wanted to see like how [04:05] can I use this technology to make [04:06] something that's like really cursed and [04:08] terrible and like fun and funny. And so [04:11] that's one way is like starting with the [04:14] like technology. And then the second way [04:16] is starting with like an idea that I [04:19] wanted to get to. So the Babel plugin [04:21] that you were talking about, it started [04:22] with just a joke Instagram video from [04:25] someone else, a guy named Justin. And he [04:28] was like making a joke about what if [04:30] people could code in Gen Z slang. And I [04:33] was like, I bet you could totally make [04:34] that happen. And so found a way to make [04:37] it happen by like figuring out what [04:39] tools you could use. Um, so those are [04:41] kind of like my two approaches, but I [04:43] like to kind of add a little twist so [04:44] that it's a little more interesting than [04:46] just, you know, doing the same thing and [04:49] following a tutorial or whatever it may [04:51] be. [04:51] >> For sure. Yeah. Well, that's a good [04:53] that's a good perspective. Like, you [04:55] know, it's not even necessarily like the [04:58] it sounds like it's it is the software, [05:00] but it's also kind of the approach and [05:01] the mindset. like you can kind of find [05:05] joy in like either the idea or the like [05:09] way you're going about it. Yeah. Make it [05:11] make um Yeah. Worst actual It's the [05:15] actual worst video player is hilarious. [05:17] So it's is the idea like you literally [05:21] make everyone suffer when one person [05:23] pauses the video. Oh yeah. Yep. Yeah. It [05:26] was a kind of a hackathon style like [05:29] competition for M. Um, and they were [05:31] trying to see who could build the worst [05:33] video player with their tools. And [05:35] obviously like it still had to work, but [05:37] it needed to be terrible. So yeah, it [05:40] was all the controls are complicated and [05:42] and you control the experience for [05:45] everyone else. So that was a really fun [05:46] project to work on and I learned a lot [05:48] about websockets. Nice. So that that one [05:51] you worked on by yourself in like a [05:53] hackathon style, but you've also like [05:55] collaborated with other people on some [05:58] of these other projects. So, how um how [06:01] does that energy change when you're [06:03] working on something by yourself versus [06:06] collaborating with somebody else or a [06:08] team? [06:08] >> Yeah, I think when you're working on [06:10] things by yourself, you have more [06:12] control over the project itself and like [06:14] the ways that it's going to go and what [06:16] the final product is, but it can also be [06:19] really like fun and empowering to find [06:20] someone that's likeminded and has a [06:22] similar goal and things that they want [06:24] to learn as well. Um, and they're able [06:27] to take the projects in ways that you [06:29] could never expect. Um, and I think of [06:32] it as like I'm not a comedian at all, [06:34] but with improv comedy, it's like a yes [06:37] and type of attitude where people like [06:39] add on to your idea. And I think finding [06:42] someone that's like that and you're able [06:43] to kind of like riff off each other and [06:45] make the project better. I think that's [06:47] what you need to look for when you're [06:48] looking for a partner or like group to [06:51] work on things in hackathons or just [06:53] side projects like this. [06:54] >> Cool. And I mentioned the swift commits [06:57] tool. Do you want to describe that one? [07:00] Yeah, that's just if you've used um [07:03] better commits. It's just a fork of [07:04] that. The goal of better commits is to [07:07] actually make your commit messages [07:09] better with the semantic commit sty [07:11] styling. But this one is a Taylor Swift [07:14] version of that. So you choose like the [07:16] era that you want to use and then you [07:18] can choose different lyrics and it needs [07:20] to like describe how you feel about your [07:22] code and then that's your commit [07:24] message. Yeah, that was a fun project. I [07:27] pulled a lot of my favorite quotes out [07:29] of her songs for that and it was great. [07:31] I don't think anyone has ever used it so [07:33] that's okay. [07:33] >> I have to now though. [07:35] >> Yeah. [07:35] >> Yeah. [07:36] >> I want this in production at GitHub, you [07:38] know. [07:38] >> Yeah, we'll have to we'll have to pull [07:40] some strings. Speaking of like kind of [07:42] that intersection of work and and [07:46] silliness and things like that, um I'm [07:49] curious if you have any tools or tricks [07:52] on how to bring joy to your day-to-day [07:55] work. If you uh try to bring that levity [07:58] into your daily job or if you're kind of [08:01] like, "No, this is just for my side [08:03] projects and I'm treating work in a [08:06] different way." Um, yeah. I I think I'd [08:08] say the side projects are a way sort of [08:11] to get it out of my system a little bit [08:13] so that I can be serious at work so I'm [08:15] not like the class clown at work like [08:18] trying to be silly all the time. But [08:20] yeah, I do try to be human at work and [08:23] not just, you know, clock in and clock [08:25] out, that type of thing. So [08:26] relationships at work are really [08:28] important for me. I like to have friends [08:29] and get along and be lighthearted and [08:32] things. But yeah, like I think the team [08:35] that you work for and the bosses that [08:37] you work for are really important to me [08:40] personally and I would take a much lower [08:42] salary just to be at a place where I [08:44] feel kind of at home and and trusted and [08:47] that I can trust my team and that sort [08:50] of thing. So finding the right spot to [08:51] be is just so important. [08:53] >> Yeah, absolutely. I think fun is such a [08:55] core aspect to how a team works [08:58] together. Like if a team can have fun [09:00] together, that's I think the sign of a [09:02] healthy team. So I I like that. Like [09:04] take your work seriously, but like be [09:06] human, have fun, joke around. Um yeah, [09:09] that makes sense. Do you think that by [09:13] being a developer experience engineer [09:16] allows you to have more of that fun than [09:18] maybe a traditional software engineering [09:19] role? Or was it just something that you [09:21] felt was more tailored to your [09:23] experience or your uh skill set? Yeah, I [09:26] I do think it provides more [09:28] opportunities. I started in marketing [09:30] and kind of like learned to code on the [09:32] side while I was doing this marketing [09:34] job at a tech company and got into [09:36] coding that way. So then I was a [09:38] software engineer and led a small team [09:40] and that sort of thing for some time and [09:43] now I'm back kind of almost in the [09:44] middle of those two things. And it's [09:46] been really fun so far to work on code [09:50] still and need to use my technical [09:51] skills as well, but be back in a little [09:55] bit of a role where it's like more [09:56] creative, some soft skills, um getting [09:59] to have a big say in the product by [10:01] talking to customers and seeing what [10:03] they want and need from our tools, that [10:06] sort of thing. And so recent has been [10:08] very kind to me with allowing me uh [10:09] different creative opportunities. Like [10:12] at Superbase Select this year, I built [10:15] like an installation, like an [10:17] interactive type of exhibit where we [10:19] printed out a bunch of like famous [10:21] emails or emails that changed the world [10:23] is what we called it. And people could [10:25] go and hang those on the wall, like [10:27] their favorite emails. Um, and this [10:28] included like the first email sent from [10:30] space, the first spam email. Queen [10:33] Elizabeth II was the first head of state [10:35] to send an email. And so there's one [10:37] from her, stuff like that. And so, um, [10:40] people could print them out, put them on [10:41] the wall, they could take it home in a [10:43] frame, and it was like a really fun, um, [10:45] project for me to work on. And so, I [10:48] feel like that's those types of things [10:50] are really interesting to me. Aside from [10:52] just coding all the time, which is also [10:54] a fun creative job, but it's just like a [10:57] nice mix of the two. [10:58] >> That makes so much sense. That's really [11:00] cool that you're able to combine all [11:02] your experience to this one like job [11:05] that's almost tailored to you. What [11:08] very custom fit for me. [11:10] >> Yeah. Which is so cool. I love when that [11:13] happens because it's sometimes when you [11:15] switch positions, I mean, a lot of us [11:18] switched from what we thought we were [11:19] going to be. Um, you're like, well, did [11:22] I just waste all those years of doing [11:24] something else, but usually it actually [11:27] is a superpower in a way towards C as [11:29] you move on. So, that's so cool. Yeah, [11:32] it does feel strange to be coding less [11:35] because at part of my career I had made [11:38] that decision. It was like a fork in the [11:39] road of like okay no I want to be an [11:41] engineer and so I moved into that and [11:43] away from marketing so it feels weird to [11:45] go kind of like back a little bit but [11:47] it's not a regression so far it's been [11:50] really empowering and fun and a cool [11:53] job. [11:53] >> Absolutely. I mean it's all valuable [11:55] skills in the long run. Um and it's all [11:57] valuable things for developers and [12:00] making people happy at the end of the [12:01] day. So I think that's really cool. [12:04] >> Um what drove you to learn um the [12:07] technical side of things for marketing? [12:09] Was there any like key switch that led [12:12] you down that path? [12:13] >> Yeah, I [12:15] in my marketing job I was mostly like [12:18] kind of a project manager type of role [12:20] where I was coordinating different [12:22] promotions and campaigns that we had. [12:24] And one of the jobs that we had to do [12:25] like pretty infrequently, but still like [12:28] probably once a month or so, we would [12:30] have to edit like these just really [12:32] basic HTML pages and swap out some [12:35] products and like change things around. [12:37] And when the graphic designers would [12:39] come to me and say like, "Hey, can we [12:40] add some padding here or like change a [12:42] color?" I had no idea what I was doing. [12:45] And I hated that. It just felt terrible [12:47] to be really bad at a part of my job [12:51] that was recurrent, even though it was [12:52] like so rare. So, after a rough Black [12:56] Friday season where I was like pulled [12:59] away from my family trying to edit pages [13:01] and this sort of thing, I decided that I [13:03] needed to learn and just like buckle [13:05] down and I expected to hate every minute [13:07] of it. I joined this code academy course [13:10] and did it was like a learning path or [13:12] something like that but almost like a [13:14] very mini like self-paced boot camp and [13:16] after that I learned everything that I [13:18] needed to know for that marketing job [13:20] but I fell in love with coding. It was [13:23] so just empowering to start with an [13:25] empty file and end up with whatever was [13:27] in my brain basically and so that just [13:30] got me hooked and I couldn't set it [13:31] down. So it was like my side hobby. I [13:34] asked my company that I was working for [13:35] if I could just like practice a couple [13:38] hours a week. So, they gave me little [13:39] jobs that I could do and then that [13:41] turned into a job offer um on like a [13:44] Martekch front-end team and then [13:47] eventually a product team um that was a [13:49] full stack job. So, that was that's kind [13:52] of my path. It's a weird kind of [13:54] roundabout path, but I'm really glad [13:56] that it happened. It was a lot of fun to [13:58] learn that way and they were so kind to [13:59] me to allow me those opportunities and [14:01] take chances on me when I was so green [14:03] and fresh. [14:04] >> Yeah, I think those those kinds of [14:06] things are so nice when that happens [14:08] because it's I mean when you go to [14:10] college you go the traditional path. Um [14:12] sometimes you are passionate about it [14:13] but usually it's for like a greater good [14:15] of earning money or doing whatnot which [14:18] still you got to earn money but like [14:20] when you're doing it through that route [14:22] it's something that it's truly out of [14:24] passion. and it's truly out of like an [14:26] interest and I think that's such a such [14:29] a great motive for doing like like [14:32] technical things or programming and [14:34] stuff like that. So that is so cool. [14:36] >> Yeah, definitely. [14:36] >> Is there anything that you're wanting to [14:40] or you're feeling like you should learn [14:42] more today or anything that's like on [14:44] your radar to learn more about moving [14:46] forward? Yeah, I mean I'm always trying [14:48] to work on my technical skills even [14:51] though nowadays I'm using them a little [14:52] bit less than my pure software [14:54] engineering job, but I think kind of [14:56] like I mentioned before, the events has [14:58] been really big on my mind. My company's [15:01] fairly small. We have, I think, 29 [15:04] employees now, but we're growing a lot [15:06] and wanting to host more events and be [15:09] more involved in a community. And so [15:11] trying to solve that puzzle where we [15:13] haven't really had that at all before [15:15] and I'm not used to it either. It's not [15:17] been a focus of mine at all. I think [15:19] that's been something that's really [15:21] interesting to me. So I've been to [15:22] several events this past I don't know 6 [15:24] months or so and looking to host our own [15:27] starting in January. So that'll be so [15:29] exciting. [15:30] >> That's awesome. You'll definitely have [15:31] to let us know once you have some [15:33] scheduled if there are any that like we [15:35] can help share. [15:36] >> Yeah. I met a bunch of the recent team [15:38] at CascadiaJS this year and they were [15:40] all [15:41] >> super cool. Um [15:43] >> yeah, it was good to see you in real [15:44] life. [15:45] >> Yeah, in 3D like where people actually [15:48] had bodies, [15:49] >> real person. [15:52] Um, so one of the themes that I feel [15:54] like we come back to a lot on this show [15:56] is like the idea of storytelling. And it [15:58] sounds like with your marketing [16:00] background, like you probably have like [16:02] a an opinion about how, you know, a [16:04] narrative is really important for, you [16:07] know, telling a story even as an [16:08] engineer, even if you're like doing [16:10] something really technical. Um, so I'm [16:11] curious what your thoughts are on like [16:13] storytelling and investing in those that [16:15] skill set as a software engineer or as [16:18] an engineer who's like blending [16:20] marketing and engineering like you are [16:21] now. Yeah, I think it is really [16:24] overlooked. A lot of times we focus on [16:26] like building the coolest thing possible [16:28] and we pour all our energy into it and [16:30] then when it gets to sharing it like we [16:34] just don't know what to do, I guess. And [16:36] so then it doesn't really go anywhere [16:37] because people don't know that they [16:39] should be excited about it or like spend [16:41] time learning about it. And so I guess [16:45] one example of kind of storytelling [16:49] being involved in like the product [16:50] decisions I guess is that Muk's video [16:53] player that I did. Um the tech itself [16:56] wasn't like anything impressive or [16:58] exciting really. It was more about the [17:01] story that helped the kind of random [17:04] controls come together in like a [17:06] cohesive thing that you could talk [17:08] about. So like I could just have a bunch [17:11] of random controls that are just really [17:13] terrible. And that's also like kind of a [17:15] cursed video player, but I made it into [17:18] a story about like this is inspired by [17:21] those group projects in school that [17:22] everyone hates where like one person's [17:24] input can like negatively impact [17:26] everyone else. And so that kind of drove [17:29] all of the decisions that I made as I [17:31] was trying to figure out like what [17:33] controls to add and that sort of thing. [17:34] But I feel like that helped sell it a [17:37] little bit more and helped it was a [17:39] competition so I ended up winning the [17:41] competition and flying to New York for [17:43] Versell ship and they like treated me so [17:45] well the entire time. It was so great. [17:47] But yeah, I guess like being able to [17:49] sell your story and like I don't know. [17:52] It sounds like I'm being very like [17:54] marketing business person right now of [17:57] like talking about selling and stuff, [17:58] but you need to think of it as not just [18:01] being like a saleserson, but like [18:03] faithfully telling the story of like [18:05] what the product is and like why you're [18:08] so excited about it. And I think that [18:10] helps people to understand more of where [18:12] you're coming from and get excited with [18:14] you about this thing that you built. [18:16] >> Yeah, for sure. I feel like that's super [18:18] important. And yeah, I get the [18:20] hesitation around calling it like [18:21] selling, but I feel like it's important [18:23] not only for, you know, when you release [18:25] a product to the external world, you [18:28] know, where you might hopefully you have [18:29] some marketing support to like talk [18:31] about it, but it's also important [18:32] internally. I've read so many post like [18:35] internal announcements where it's like [18:36] here's the thing and we shipped this [18:38] thing and now it is shipped and it's [18:40] like okay, like great like why do we [18:42] care about it? Like how many customers [18:43] is it going to solve? Like what are [18:45] their pain points and like how does this [18:46] address them? I feel like having that [18:49] narrative around what it is is like a [18:51] very important skill regardless of where [18:53] you're at in your career. So [18:54] >> yeah, there's just so much to care about [18:56] all the time that people have to be [18:58] selective and choose what are the most [18:59] important things. So I feel like that's [19:01] the main goal of like creating a story. [19:03] >> Yeah, absolutely. Are there any other [19:05] skills that you feel like you've sort of [19:07] like have as a little bit of a [19:09] superpower having that marketing [19:11] background that like cross over to [19:13] engineering other than the the narrative [19:15] and storytelling? It's a good question. [19:17] I think since I don't know, there's like [19:19] a stereotype of what software engineers [19:22] are, which is not true at all, by the [19:24] way. But like I never got into software [19:27] engineering growing up and stuff, even [19:29] though there were several signs along [19:31] the way that maybe it would be an [19:32] interesting career for me, just because [19:34] I didn't see myself as like a math [19:37] person or someone who's really into Star [19:39] Trek or like, you know, that sort of [19:41] thing. And so I think I bring like [19:44] different soft skills and things that [19:46] aren't always present with engineers, [19:48] but as I've like kind of gotten deeper [19:51] into this career path, I found that many [19:53] of them are that way anyways. And it's [19:55] just like a stereotype that you know, [19:56] you'd have to be really into math or [19:58] like um yeah, you've been building [20:01] computers in your mom's basement since [20:03] you were 12 or whatever the thing is. [20:05] But yeah, I think like being able to [20:08] connect people and um build [20:11] relationships and stuff has been like a [20:12] fun surprise for me. At my last company [20:15] when I was an engineer, I had friends at [20:17] work, but we didn't really um go out [20:20] into the broader like tech industry as a [20:23] whole. We were kind of like siloed on [20:24] our own. Um and so in this new role, [20:27] it's been really fun to meet people from [20:29] different companies and go to [20:30] conferences and like start to form those [20:33] relationships. Um, and that's caught me [20:35] off guard, especially as an intro [20:36] introvert, that I just wasn't expecting [20:39] that that would be a superpower of mine, [20:40] I guess. [20:41] >> Yeah. It's amazing how much talking you [20:44] actually have to do in this role where, [20:46] you know, everybody's like, "Oh, you're [20:47] only using a computer." No. [20:50] >> There's a lot involved in getting people [20:51] on board and [20:53] >> Yeah. [20:54] >> Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. And [20:56] speaking of events, you are going to be [20:58] speaking at React Miami, correct? [21:01] >> Yeah, I am. Yeah. Is this your first [21:04] speaking role or have you done [21:06] >> It's my first one. I'm really nervous. I [21:08] need tips. Let me know. [21:11] >> That's awesome. Congrats. What What made [21:13] you want to like sign up? Do you know [21:14] what you're talking about already or I [21:16] do know what I'm talking about already? [21:18] I'm going to try to convince people that [21:20] they should build more silly software. [21:22] So, kind of have a theme going here, but [21:24] I didn't really sign up. I met Michelle [21:28] um the organizer of React Miami this [21:30] summer at that at Verscell ship and we [21:33] got along great and kept in contact [21:35] afterwards and stuff and she asked me to [21:37] speak and so that's what's going to [21:39] happen. So I think I'm scared to death [21:41] about it. I am not a public speaker. [21:44] I've never done anything like this [21:45] before but I think that being scared of [21:48] something is not a good reason to not [21:50] try it. And so I'm going to see and if I [21:52] hate it I'll never do another talk [21:54] again. So, we'll see. [21:56] >> Yeah, there you go. Yeah. I don't think [21:58] anybody would be like, "Oh, no, you have [22:00] to do more speaking." [22:02] >> Yeah. [22:03] >> Yeah. I think that speaking at tech [22:04] events has been like one of the most fun [22:07] ways to get involved at them in my [22:09] experience. And like I've never been to [22:11] one where there are people in the [22:12] audience like actively saying like, "No, [22:14] this person sucks." Like everybody's [22:16] always like cheering for you. Especially [22:18] with that topic. That's going to be [22:19] Yeah. Everybody's going to be super [22:20] excited about it. So, it's a good one. [22:22] >> That's good to hear. Yeah. because [22:24] you've spoken quite a bit, right? [22:25] >> This last year was the first time I've [22:27] done quite a bit and yeah, I did like a [22:29] couple of like meetups and like larger [22:31] than meetups before that and now this [22:33] last year I actually just hung up some [22:35] conference badges yesterday and wow, [22:37] I've got like a little collection going. [22:38] Feel like a big kid now. [22:40] >> That's fun. [22:41] >> I've done a few and yeah, I uh I want to [22:44] keep doing more. So hopefully you'll get [22:46] the same bug and you're like yes, this [22:47] is the way to engage at events and [22:49] >> yeah. Yeah, that's good to hear because [22:51] I'm think I'm just like focusing on [22:53] myself and what my experience is going [22:55] to be and so it'll be nice to engage in [22:58] a different way in those events. So [23:00] that's a good way to look at it. [23:01] >> Well, we are going to switch gears here [23:04] at the end. This has all been fun, but [23:06] we have a uh segment specifically [23:08] dedicated to talking about something we [23:11] think is fun and interesting and [23:13] potentially not strictly software [23:15] related. And you mentioned that you [23:18] studied abroad in Spain for a year. You [23:20] actually owned a business in Spain. So, [23:24] uh, and you said you'd always go back [23:26] there whenever given a chance. So, [23:28] selfishly, I want some travel tips and [23:30] ideas, and we'll all go around Robin [23:34] Style and share our favorite place in [23:37] the world where we would recommend [23:39] everyone goes if they have a chance. So, [23:42] I can start. have been lucky enough to [23:45] go to Switzerland twice. Heritage, my [23:47] family's heritage is Swiss and it's like [23:51] everything I love. It's so [23:55] um like healthy. Like the air is [23:58] wonderfully fresh and like clean. Um and [24:02] you know, you spend your days like [24:04] hiking and there's like cows and cute [24:07] little chalets and would literally go [24:09] anytime at the drop of a hat. Um, so I [24:12] don't have like a specific place in [24:15] Switzerland. I was like younger when I [24:18] went, so I don't even really remember [24:20] exactly which cities. So I'm going to [24:23] say the country of Switzerland, which [24:25] leaves it very broad, but um, yeah, [24:28] outdoorsy activities in Switzerland is [24:30] my my recommendation. I go next. Yep. [24:34] Okay, cool. Uh my recommendation um is [24:37] well I would say not as far but I guess [24:39] it depends on where you're listening [24:40] from uh because if you're in Europe the [24:43] Tulin's probably more easier to get to [24:45] but my recommendation is um Hood River [24:48] Oregon which probably doesn't sound like [24:52] super exciting but like if I were to buy [24:54] a vacation home somewhere it would [24:56] absolutely be there. It's on the [24:58] Columbia River Gorge which is the um [25:00] river between Oregon and Washington. Um, [25:02] I try to go at least once a year just to [25:04] go there and like it's on this beautiful [25:07] river like with all these canyons around [25:10] and they have a lot of they have what's [25:12] called the Fruit Loop there where [25:14] there's all these different farms you [25:15] can stop at and they just grow so much [25:16] fruit there that it's like super fun in [25:18] the summer to go like farm to farm to [25:20] just pick up different fruits, whatever [25:22] they specialize in. Lots of wine tasting [25:24] and just some of the most gorgeous [25:26] mountain views and river views and nice [25:29] people. So, highly recommend that one. [25:31] >> Oregon genuinely is like one of the most [25:34] incredible places. The Pacific Northwest [25:36] in general, fell in love there. My mind [25:38] went in so many different places. So, [25:40] I'm just going to kind of be a little [25:42] chaotic with it. Part of me is selfish [25:44] and wants everybody to come to Charlotte [25:46] where I because I think that it's [25:48] underrated and I love it and I want [25:51] other people to love it too. but a far [25:54] more exciting I guess or out there Rex. [25:57] Um I was really surprised by Boston. Me [26:00] and my husband decided to go there on a [26:01] whim and it was actually really fun. [26:03] Super historic but also very modern and [26:05] it just was a really cool vibe. And then [26:08] Japan, I feel like everybody who's been [26:10] to Japan has to recommend it. But it [26:12] truly was so special. We went to Tokyo [26:14] and Kyoto and it was such a cool culture [26:18] to to realize and kind of what you were [26:20] talking about Christina about like [26:21] forcing yourself to be a little [26:23] uncomfortable in places. You're like, [26:25] "Oh, I don't really I don't know [26:26] Japanese. I don't know the language. I [26:28] don't know like all the customs or [26:29] anything." And so it's cool to kind of [26:31] like push yourself and explore beyond [26:33] what your comfort zone is. So that was [26:35] definitely like an ex stretching myself [26:37] and stretching my comfort zone and it [26:39] was so special. Uh hoping to go back [26:42] soon. Man, I'm jealous of Japan. I've [26:44] been lobbying the powers that be at [26:46] Resend that our next off-site needs to [26:48] be at in Japan. So, we'll see. My [26:51] recommendation is Spain. Like you [26:53] mentioned, I am obsessed with Spain. I [26:55] love it so much. I've spent some time [26:57] there. And I think there's many good [27:00] places to go. I think the most like [27:02] classically Spanish with like all the [27:04] architecture and the like flamco and all [27:06] the things that you think of and like [27:08] most highest concentration of like [27:10] interesting things to look at and do [27:12] would be Sevilla. And I think though [27:14] like the city that's closest to my heart [27:16] is Malaga which is just like on the [27:18] coast. Um it's like the perfect city in [27:20] my opinion. It's right on the beach and [27:22] has great weather, walkable and like [27:25] interesting museums and things to do. [27:27] And so that's like that's really close [27:29] to where I lived when I was in Spain. [27:31] But those are two of my recommendations [27:33] and you can go on a trip and see them [27:34] both in the same trip cuz they're pretty [27:36] close by. Um so yeah those I think [27:39] that's that's my recommendation. [27:41] Definitely adding it to the list. Uh [27:43] well thank you again Christina for [27:45] joining us. Where is the best place for [27:48] people to find you on the internet? [27:50] >> I think christinacodes.dev. [27:52] It has all the other links to go [27:54] elsewhere. And I'm launching a new [27:57] newsletter at sillysoftware.comclub. [28:00] Um, hasn't been released yet. Hopefully [28:02] by the time that this episode airs, it [28:05] will be. But yeah, thank you listeners [28:07] for tuning in to Overcommitted. If you [28:09] like what you hear, please do follow, [28:11] subscribe, or do whatever it is you like [28:13] to do on the podcast app of your choice. [28:15] Check us out on Blue Sky and share with [28:17] your friends. Quick plug for um our book [28:20] club. whatever time you're listening to [28:23] this, it's kicking off um in mid [28:26] December and by the time this comes out [28:28] it'll probably be running for a bit and [28:31] there's great content to catch up on [28:33] discussions um yeah great great book [28:36] club content to engage with. So [28:39] definitely check it out.  ## 📺 Video ![](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbmCVHvs0Pw) --- # 📝 Full Notes (Deep-Read Analysis) # 🏷️ Title: Ep. 42 | Making Silly Software with Christina Martinez ## 🧰 Action Inbox - [H1] Build creative side projects to practice new tech — explore websockets through "cursed" video player #devrel - [H2] Apply improv "yes and" attitude to collaborative hackathons — find like-minded partners for idea expansion #community - [H3] Start Resend newsletter at sillysoftware.club — advocate for silly software movement #content-creation ## 🧭 Table of Contents - [📝 Summary](#-summary) - [📖 Main Content](#-main-content) - [🗒️ Notes](#️-notes) - [📚 References](#-references) - [🗣️ Paraphrase](#️-paraphrase) - [📰 Newsletter](#-newsletter) - [✅ Action Items](#-action-items) - [🧪 Hypotheses](#-hypotheses) - [📊 Methodology](#-methodology) - [❓ Questions](#-questions) - [🔮 Future Research](#-future-research) - [💡 Implications](#-implications) - [🧠 Learning Styles Assessment](#-learning-styles-assessment) - [📊 Accessibility Assessment](#-accessibility-assessment) - [🌍 DEIB Assessment](#-deib-assessment) - [✅ Logical Validity](#-logical-validity) - [🛡️ DARVO Analysis](#-darvo-analysis) - [🎯 Conclusion](#-conclusion) ### 🔗 References - [Overcommitted Podcast](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbmCVHvs0Pw) - [christinacodes.dev](https://christinacodes.dev) - [sillysoftware.club](https://sillysoftware.club) ## 📝 Summary - Christina Martinez, Developer Experience Engineer at Resend, advocates for "silly software" as a way to make coding more creative and fun - She builds playful projects like Gen Z Babel plugin and "world's worst video player" to practice new technologies while adding humor - Her background combines marketing and engineering, bringing storytelling skills that help bridge technical and business needs - Key message: Side projects with creative twists make learning more engaging than standard tutorials, while building community and technical skills - Bottom line: Embracing silliness in software development creates joy, learning opportunities, and memorable experiences for developers ## 📖 Main Content Christina Martinez exemplifies how developers can inject creativity and humor into technical work through "silly software" - projects that serve practical learning goals while being genuinely entertaining. As a Developer Experience Engineer at Resend, she leverages her unique background spanning marketing and engineering. Her creative process follows two main approaches: starting with technology she wants to learn (like websockets) and building something "cursed" around it, or starting with a funny idea and finding the technical tools to make it reality. The Gen Z Babel plugin emerged from an Instagram joke about coding in Gen Z slang, while the "world's worst video player" was designed for a hackathon where one person's actions negatively impact all other viewers. Martinez argues that storytelling skills from her marketing background are crucial for engineers. Technical excellence alone isn't enough - developers need to communicate why their work matters and get others excited about it. Her video player won the Mux competition not just for technical implementation, but because it told a coherent story about group project dynamics that everyone could relate to. The transition from pure software engineering to developer experience allows her to blend technical skills with creative opportunities, like building interactive email history installations at conferences. She emphasizes that silly software serves as an outlet that actually enables more focused seriousness during work hours. ## 🗒️ Notes #### ⏱️ [00:00](https://youtu.be/WbmCVHvs0Pw?t=0) — [H1] Introduction and Current Obsessions - Key idea: Christina is learning custom knitting patterns, restoring vintage electronics, and organizing dev events - Evidence: "I made my Resend sock... working on getting a 1995 Macintosh online... organizing dev meetups for 2026" #### ⏱️ [02:30](https://youtu.be/WbmCVHvs0Pw?t=150) — [H2] Creative Process for Silly Software - Key idea: Two approaches - start with technology to learn or start with funny idea to implement - Evidence: "I wanted to learn about websockets... built Mux's worst video player" and "started with joke Instagram video about Gen Z coding" #### ⏱️ [04:45](https://youtu.be/WbmCVHvs0Pw?t=285) — [H3] Worst Video Player Mechanics - Key idea: Collaborative video experience where individual actions affect everyone negatively - Evidence: "All the controls are complicated and you control the experience for everyone else" #### ⏱️ [06:20](https://youtu.be/WbmCVHvs0Pw?t=380) — [H2] Collaboration vs Solo Development - Key idea: Solo work provides control, collaboration brings unexpected directions through "yes and" improv attitude - Evidence: "Finding someone that's likeminded... they're able to take projects in ways you could never expect" #### ⏱️ [07:15](https://youtu.be/WbmCVHvs0Pw?t=435) — [H3] Swift Commits Tool - Key idea: Taylor Swift-themed semantic commit message generator using song lyrics - Evidence: "Choose the era... choose different lyrics... describe how you feel about your code" #### ⏱️ [08:30](https://youtu.be/WbmCVHvs0Pw?t=510) — [H2] Bringing Joy to Daily Work - Key idea: Side projects serve as creative outlet enabling professional seriousness at work - Evidence: "Side projects are a way to get it out of my system... so I'm not the class clown at work" #### ⏱️ [10:45](https://youtu.be/WbmCVHvs0Pw?t=645) — [H2] Developer Experience Role Benefits - Key idea: DX engineering combines technical skills with creative opportunities and customer interaction - Evidence: "More creative, some soft skills... big say in product by talking to customers" #### ⏱️ [12:00](https://youtu.be/WbmCVHvs0Pw?t=720) — [H3] Famous Emails Installation - Key idea: Interactive conference exhibit featuring historically significant emails - Evidence: "First email sent from space, first spam email, Queen Elizabeth II first head of state email" #### ⏱️ [15:30](https://youtu.be/WbmCVHvs0Pw?t=930) — [H2] Marketing to Engineering Transition - Key idea: HTML editing frustration during Black Friday led to coding education and career pivot - Evidence: "Hated being really bad at recurrent part of my job... fell in love with coding after Code Academy" #### ⏱️ [19:45](https://youtu.be/WbmCVHvs0Pw?t=1185) — [H2] Learning Focus on Events and Community - Key idea: Small company growth requires new event organization and community building skills - Evidence: "29 employees now... wanting to host more events... new soft skills challenges" #### ⏱️ [21:30](https://youtu.be/WbmCVHvs0Pw?t=1290) — [H1] Storytelling in Engineering - Key idea: Technical projects need compelling narratives to help people understand why they should care - Evidence: "Story helped sell it... won competition and flew to New York... faithfully telling story of what product is" #### ⏱️ [25:15](https://youtu.be/WbmCVHvs0Pw?t=1515) — [H2] Marketing Background Superpowers - Key idea: Relationship building and connecting people beyond stereotypical engineer assumptions - Evidence: "Different soft skills... connecting people... meeting people from different companies at conferences" #### ⏱️ [27:45](https://youtu.be/WbmCVHvs0Pw?t=1665) — [H3] First Speaking Engagement - Key idea: React Miami talk about silly software despite public speaking fears - Evidence: "Going to try to convince people to build more silly software... being scared is not good reason not to try" #### ⏱️ [31:00](https://youtu.be/WbmCVHvs0Pw?t=1860) — [H3] Travel Recommendations - Key idea: Spain recommendations focus on Sevilla for classic architecture and Malaga for coastal perfection - Evidence: "Sevilla most classically Spanish... Malaga closest to my heart, perfect city on beach" ## 📚 References - [christinacodes.dev](https://christinacodes.dev) - [Silly Software Club Newsletter](https://sillysoftware.club) - [Overcommitted Podcast](https://overcommitted.fm/) - [Resend](https://resend.com/) ## 🗣️ Paraphrase - Creative side projects that combine learning with humor make technical education more engaging than standard tutorials - Developer experience engineering blends technical skills with storytelling and community building for greater product impact - Marketing backgrounds provide valuable relationship and narrative skills that complement engineering technical capabilities ## 📰 Newsletter **Making Development Delightful: The Case for Silly Software** This week's Overcommitted podcast featured Christina Martinez from Resend, who's pioneering the "silly software" movement - using humor and creativity to make coding more engaging and educational. Christina's approach is brilliant: instead of building another todo app to learn websockets, she created the "world's worst video player" where one person's actions ruin everyone else's experience. The Gen Z Babel plugin transforms code into slang. These projects teach real skills while creating memorable, shareable experiences. **Key takeaway**: Side projects with creative twists often teach more than serious tutorials because they force you to think differently about problems and maintain engagement longer. For WordPress developers, this could mean building a "Gutenberg block that judges your content choices" or a "plugin that translates your code comments into Shakespearean English." The technical learning is the same, but the joy factor makes all the difference. Resources: [Learn WordPress](https://learn.wordpress.org/), [Developer Docs](https://developer.wordpress.org/), [WP-CLI](https://wp-cli.org/) ## ✅ Action Items #### DevRel - Developer advocacy: Champion silly software movement through conference talks, demos showing creative learning approaches - Education: Design workshops combining serious technical learning with playful project outcomes - Developer experience: Create interactive installation-style documentation and onboarding experiences - Community management: Foster "yes and" collaborative environment in hackathons and side projects #### WordPress - Core: Experiment with creative learning tools for contributor onboarding - Community: Develop hackathon formats that encourage silly software for skill building - Training: Create lesson plans that use humor and creativity to teach technical concepts - Design: Research how playful elements improve developer tool adoption ## 🧪 Hypotheses - Creative constraints in side projects lead to deeper technical learning than structured tutorials - Developers with marketing backgrounds bring valuable storytelling skills that improve technical communication - "Silly software" serves as creative outlet that enhances rather than detracts from professional work quality - Cross-functional experience creates more effective developer experience professionals ### 📊 Methodology - Track learning retention comparing creative vs traditional coding tutorials - Survey developers on storytelling skill development and career progression correlation - Measure engagement metrics for playful vs serious technical content ### ❓ Questions - How can we systematically integrate creative constraints into technical education? - What specific storytelling frameworks work best for technical project communication? - How do we balance silly software advocacy with serious enterprise development needs? ### 🔮 Future Research - Effectiveness of humor-driven technical education across different learning styles - Career progression patterns for developers with cross-functional marketing experience - Community building through creative coding projects and hackathons ### 💡 Implications - Practice: Side projects with creative twists may provide better skill development than traditional tutorials - Education: Technical curricula could benefit from incorporating storytelling and humor elements - Community: Developer events and hackathons should encourage "yes and" collaborative attitudes - Funding: Supporting playful technical projects may yield unexpected innovation and community engagement ### 🧠 Learning Styles Assessment Reading level estimate: 10th Grade (Flesch-Kincaid) #### 👀 Visual learners - Present: Project screenshots, conference installation photos - Improve: Diagrams showing silly software development process, before/after code comparisons #### 🔊 Aural learners - Present: Full podcast audio with natural conversation flow - Improve: Audio highlights reel, conference talk recordings #### 🗣️ Verbal learners - Present: Clear definitions of "silly software," analogies to improv comedy - Improve: Glossary of DevRel terms, storytelling framework examples #### 🧩 Kinesthetic learners - Present: Hands-on project examples, interactive installations - Improve: Step-by-step silly software creation guide, hackathon participation checklist #### 🧠 Logical learners - Present: Two-approach framework for creative projects - Improve: Decision trees for project selection, ROI metrics for silly software #### 🧑‍🤝‍🧑 Social learners - Present: Collaboration stories, conference networking experiences - Improve: Community challenges, peer review processes for creative projects #### 🧘‍♀️ Solitary learners - Present: Individual project development stories - Improve: Self-assessment rubrics, personal reflection prompts #### 🌿 Naturalistic learners - Present: Organic career transition narrative - Improve: Ecosystem thinking about developer communities, growth metaphors ### 📊 Accessibility Assessment #### Screen reader semantics - Present: Clear heading structure, conversational content - Improve: Image alt text for project screenshots, ARIA labels for audio content #### Keyboard navigation - Present: Standard podcast player controls - Improve: Timestamp navigation, transcript search functionality #### Contrast and readability - Present: Standard podcast format with transcript - Improve: High contrast transcript display options #### Text resizing and reflow - Present: Responsive transcript formatting - Improve: Font size controls, line spacing options #### Media and captions - Present: Full transcript provided - Improve: Synchronized captions, speaker identification #### Forms and interactions - Present: Basic podcast subscription - Improve: Accessible newsletter signup, feedback forms ### 🌍 DEIB Assessment #### Cultural breadth - Present: International travel discussion, Spain cultural appreciation - Improve: Global developer community examples, diverse silly software projects #### Inclusive language - Present: Gender-neutral terms, accessible technical explanations - Improve: Define industry jargon, avoid regional idioms #### Neurodiversity support - Present: Structured conversation with clear topics - Improve: Content warnings for career change discussions, sensory considerations #### Representation - Present: Woman in tech leadership role, non-traditional career path - Improve: Diverse guest examples, varied cultural perspectives #### Psychological safety - Present: Supportive tone around career transitions and learning - Improve: Explicit encouragement for imposter syndrome, failure normalization ### ✅ Logical Validity #### Strong reasoning - Deductive strength: Career transition logic well-supported with specific examples - Inductive strength: Silly software benefits generalized from multiple project examples - Causal reasoning: Clear connection between marketing background and storytelling skills - Analogical strength: Improv comedy comparison effectively illustrates collaboration principles #### Fallacies - Selection bias: Only successful silly software examples presented, may not represent typical outcomes - Survivorship bias: Focus on positive career transition without discussing challenges or failures #### Tone of voice - Overall tone: Enthusiastic and encouraging with authentic personal storytelling and practical insights ### 🛡️ DARVO Analysis - Deny: No denial patterns observed - Attack: No attack rhetoric present - Reverse victim/offender: No victim/offender dynamics - Emotional cues and rhetoric: Positive, encouraging tone focused on empowerment and learning ## 🎯 Conclusion Christina Martinez demonstrates how "silly software" can transform technical learning from routine skill-building into joyful creative expression. Her approach of starting with either interesting technology or funny ideas creates memorable projects that teach real skills while building community connections. The key insight is that creativity and humor don't detract from technical seriousness—they enhance it by providing emotional engagement that makes learning stick. For developers at any career stage, incorporating playful elements into side projects can accelerate skill development while building a personal brand that opens --- # 📄 Full Transcript *Auto-generated from YouTube captions · timestamps roughly every 30 seconds · [watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbmCVHvs0Pw)* **[00:00]** Welcome to the Overcommitted Podcast, [music] your weekly dose of real engineering conversations. I am your host this week, Erica. And I'm joined by Hey, I'm Britney. Hi, I'm Bethany. The three of us met while working on a team at GitHub and quickly realized we are all obsessed with getting better at what we do. So, we decided to start this podcast to share what we've learned. We'll be talking about everything from leveling up your technical skills to navigating your professional development. All with the goal of creating a community where engineers can **[00:30]** learn and connect. Today on Overcommitted, we are joined by Christina Martinez, a developer experience engineer from Reend and a pass advocate for making silly software. So, welcome Christina. Thank you. I'm excited to be here. >> To kick us off, what's one thing you are currently building or obsessed with learning with right now? >> Yeah. Well, I'll start start with something mostly aimed at Britney right now. We are fiber arts friends. She crochets and I knit. So, I'm learning how to make like custom knitting **[01:00]** patterns. So, I I made my recend sock. So, that's one thing. Um, and then I have two others. One is I'm getting really into like old electronic nostalgia lately. So, you can see if you're listening, I have like a Macintosh from 1995 behind me in my office and I'm working on getting that online. Um, I bought an iPod Nano recently, so working on that. Uh, and then the third thing is events. I've been to a ton of events with my new job at Resend and now we're working on **[01:30]** organizing some more like dev meetups and things like that for 2026. So, um, really breaking down like what makes events worthwhile and fun and exciting to go to and figuring out all the logistics. So, that's been a new challenge for me. I've been in just a software engineering role for quite a while and so it's like new kind of soft skills challenges which has been interesting. >> It's very cool. Yeah. I always feel like the end of the year there's a lot of nostalgia with like the year look back in general but yeah anything like early **[02:02]** tech is also fun. I was reminded of the like cousins's music video moment where like it Kelly Roland was like texting trying to like text uh through an Excel spreadsheet on her like Nokia. Um yeah, in that one music video. Anyway, I like had forgotten about that this morning. I was like, "Oh my gosh, that's so funny." Yeah, it's always so fun to look back at like old movies and stuff and see the tech that they had. It's It's just great. >> Yeah. reminder that we are all human and **[02:32]** tech moves fast. Um, cool. Well, um, we have to ask about some of these really fun projects that you have done in your time as a software engineer. You are the creative mind behind the Gen Z Babel plugin and the Swift commits tool. And you say that you're kind of on this big push for silly software and that you prefer it over standard corporate apps. **[03:04]** So what's kind of creative process there? Are you actively hunting for ways to make coding a little more fun and ridiculous or did the natural the ideas kind of come as a natural discovery? I think it comes kind of naturally. I appreciate, you know, kind of like boring software and even like the company that I work for that could be categorized as boring. It's emails and that's really important to keep the infrastructure intact and working how it should be. But I think it makes it really fun and exciting to work on **[03:35]** things that are a little more creative. And so yeah, I think I use silly software in two ways. One is like I just learned a concept. I want to apply it somehow and kind of like practice, but I want to make it kind of fun instead of just building like another to-do app or a calculator app or something. And so, one example of that was I wanted to learn about websockets. And so, that's when I built the Muk's worst video player that we can talk about a little later, but um I I wanted to see like how can I use this technology to make **[04:06]** something that's like really cursed and terrible and like fun and funny. And so that's one way is like starting with the like technology. And then the second way is starting with like an idea that I wanted to get to. So the Babel plugin that you were talking about, it started with just a joke Instagram video from someone else, a guy named Justin. And he was like making a joke about what if people could code in Gen Z slang. And I was like, I bet you could totally make that happen. And so found a way to make **[04:37]** it happen by like figuring out what tools you could use. Um, so those are kind of like my two approaches, but I like to kind of add a little twist so that it's a little more interesting than just, you know, doing the same thing and following a tutorial or whatever it may be. >> For sure. Yeah. Well, that's a good that's a good perspective. Like, you know, it's not even necessarily like the it sounds like it's it is the software, but it's also kind of the approach and the mindset. like you can kind of find joy in like either the idea or the like **[05:09]** way you're going about it. Yeah. Make it make um Yeah. Worst actual It's the actual worst video player is hilarious. So it's is the idea like you literally make everyone suffer when one person pauses the video. Oh yeah. Yep. Yeah. It was a kind of a hackathon style like competition for M. Um, and they were trying to see who could build the worst video player with their tools. And obviously like it still had to work, but it needed to be terrible. So yeah, it **[05:40]** was all the controls are complicated and and you control the experience for everyone else. So that was a really fun project to work on and I learned a lot about websockets. Nice. So that that one you worked on by yourself in like a hackathon style, but you've also like collaborated with other people on some of these other projects. So, how um how does that energy change when you're working on something by yourself versus collaborating with somebody else or a team? >> Yeah, I think when you're working on things by yourself, you have more **[06:12]** control over the project itself and like the ways that it's going to go and what the final product is, but it can also be really like fun and empowering to find someone that's likeminded and has a similar goal and things that they want to learn as well. Um, and they're able to take the projects in ways that you could never expect. Um, and I think of it as like I'm not a comedian at all, but with improv comedy, it's like a yes and type of attitude where people like add on to your idea. And I think finding someone that's like that and you're able **[06:43]** to kind of like riff off each other and make the project better. I think that's what you need to look for when you're looking for a partner or like group to work on things in hackathons or just side projects like this. >> Cool. And I mentioned the swift commits tool. Do you want to describe that one? Yeah, that's just if you've used um better commits. It's just a fork of that. The goal of better commits is to actually make your commit messages better with the semantic commit sty styling. But this one is a Taylor Swift **[07:14]** version of that. So you choose like the era that you want to use and then you can choose different lyrics and it needs to like describe how you feel about your code and then that's your commit message. Yeah, that was a fun project. I pulled a lot of my favorite quotes out of her songs for that and it was great. I don't think anyone has ever used it so that's okay. >> I have to now though. >> Yeah. >> I want this in production at GitHub, you know. >> Yeah, we'll have to we'll have to pull some strings. Speaking of like kind of that intersection of work and and **[07:46]** silliness and things like that, um I'm curious if you have any tools or tricks on how to bring joy to your day-to-day work. If you uh try to bring that levity into your daily job or if you're kind of like, "No, this is just for my side projects and I'm treating work in a different way." Um, yeah. I I think I'd say the side projects are a way sort of to get it out of my system a little bit so that I can be serious at work so I'm not like the class clown at work like **[08:18]** trying to be silly all the time. But yeah, I do try to be human at work and not just, you know, clock in and clock out, that type of thing. So relationships at work are really important for me. I like to have friends and get along and be lighthearted and things. But yeah, like I think the team that you work for and the bosses that you work for are really important to me personally and I would take a much lower salary just to be at a place where I feel kind of at home and and trusted and that I can trust my team and that sort **[08:50]** of thing. So finding the right spot to be is just so important. >> Yeah, absolutely. I think fun is such a core aspect to how a team works together. Like if a team can have fun together, that's I think the sign of a healthy team. So I I like that. Like take your work seriously, but like be human, have fun, joke around. Um yeah, that makes sense. Do you think that by being a developer experience engineer allows you to have more of that fun than maybe a traditional software engineering role? Or was it just something that you **[09:21]** felt was more tailored to your experience or your uh skill set? Yeah, I I do think it provides more opportunities. I started in marketing and kind of like learned to code on the side while I was doing this marketing job at a tech company and got into coding that way. So then I was a software engineer and led a small team and that sort of thing for some time and now I'm back kind of almost in the middle of those two things. And it's been really fun so far to work on code still and need to use my technical **[09:51]** skills as well, but be back in a little bit of a role where it's like more creative, some soft skills, um getting to have a big say in the product by talking to customers and seeing what they want and need from our tools, that sort of thing. And so recent has been very kind to me with allowing me uh different creative opportunities. Like at Superbase Select this year, I built like an installation, like an interactive type of exhibit where we printed out a bunch of like famous emails or emails that changed the world **[10:23]** is what we called it. And people could go and hang those on the wall, like their favorite emails. Um, and this included like the first email sent from space, the first spam email. Queen Elizabeth II was the first head of state to send an email. And so there's one from her, stuff like that. And so, um, people could print them out, put them on the wall, they could take it home in a frame, and it was like a really fun, um, project for me to work on. And so, I feel like that's those types of things are really interesting to me. Aside from just coding all the time, which is also **[10:54]** a fun creative job, but it's just like a nice mix of the two. >> That makes so much sense. That's really cool that you're able to combine all your experience to this one like job that's almost tailored to you. What very custom fit for me. >> Yeah. Which is so cool. I love when that happens because it's sometimes when you switch positions, I mean, a lot of us switched from what we thought we were going to be. Um, you're like, well, did I just waste all those years of doing something else, but usually it actually **[11:27]** is a superpower in a way towards C as you move on. So, that's so cool. Yeah, it does feel strange to be coding less because at part of my career I had made that decision. It was like a fork in the road of like okay no I want to be an engineer and so I moved into that and away from marketing so it feels weird to go kind of like back a little bit but it's not a regression so far it's been really empowering and fun and a cool job. >> Absolutely. I mean it's all valuable skills in the long run. Um and it's all valuable things for developers and **[12:00]** making people happy at the end of the day. So I think that's really cool. >> Um what drove you to learn um the technical side of things for marketing? Was there any like key switch that led you down that path? >> Yeah, I in my marketing job I was mostly like kind of a project manager type of role where I was coordinating different promotions and campaigns that we had. And one of the jobs that we had to do like pretty infrequently, but still like probably once a month or so, we would have to edit like these just really **[12:32]** basic HTML pages and swap out some products and like change things around. And when the graphic designers would come to me and say like, "Hey, can we add some padding here or like change a color?" I had no idea what I was doing. And I hated that. It just felt terrible to be really bad at a part of my job that was recurrent, even though it was like so rare. So, after a rough Black Friday season where I was like pulled away from my family trying to edit pages and this sort of thing, I decided that I **[13:03]** needed to learn and just like buckle down and I expected to hate every minute of it. I joined this code academy course and did it was like a learning path or something like that but almost like a very mini like self-paced boot camp and after that I learned everything that I needed to know for that marketing job but I fell in love with coding. It was so just empowering to start with an empty file and end up with whatever was in my brain basically and so that just got me hooked and I couldn't set it down. So it was like my side hobby. I **[13:34]** asked my company that I was working for if I could just like practice a couple hours a week. So, they gave me little jobs that I could do and then that turned into a job offer um on like a Martekch front-end team and then eventually a product team um that was a full stack job. So, that was that's kind of my path. It's a weird kind of roundabout path, but I'm really glad that it happened. It was a lot of fun to learn that way and they were so kind to me to allow me those opportunities and take chances on me when I was so green and fresh. **[14:04]** >> Yeah, I think those those kinds of things are so nice when that happens because it's I mean when you go to college you go the traditional path. Um sometimes you are passionate about it but usually it's for like a greater good of earning money or doing whatnot which still you got to earn money but like when you're doing it through that route it's something that it's truly out of passion. and it's truly out of like an interest and I think that's such a such a great motive for doing like like technical things or programming and stuff like that. So that is so cool. **[14:36]** >> Yeah, definitely. >> Is there anything that you're wanting to or you're feeling like you should learn more today or anything that's like on your radar to learn more about moving forward? Yeah, I mean I'm always trying to work on my technical skills even though nowadays I'm using them a little bit less than my pure software engineering job, but I think kind of like I mentioned before, the events has been really big on my mind. My company's fairly small. We have, I think, 29 employees now, but we're growing a lot **[15:06]** and wanting to host more events and be more involved in a community. And so trying to solve that puzzle where we haven't really had that at all before and I'm not used to it either. It's not been a focus of mine at all. I think that's been something that's really interesting to me. So I've been to several events this past I don't know 6 months or so and looking to host our own starting in January. So that'll be so exciting. >> That's awesome. You'll definitely have to let us know once you have some scheduled if there are any that like we can help share. **[15:36]** >> Yeah. I met a bunch of the recent team at CascadiaJS this year and they were all >> super cool. Um >> yeah, it was good to see you in real life. >> Yeah, in 3D like where people actually had bodies, >> real person. [laughter] Um, so one of the themes that I feel like we come back to a lot on this show is like the idea of storytelling. And it sounds like with your marketing background, like you probably have like a an opinion about how, you know, a narrative is really important for, you **[16:07]** know, telling a story even as an engineer, even if you're like doing something really technical. Um, so I'm curious what your thoughts are on like storytelling and investing in those that skill set as a software engineer or as an engineer who's like blending marketing and engineering like you are now. Yeah, I think it is really overlooked. A lot of times we focus on like building the coolest thing possible and we pour all our energy into it and then when it gets to sharing it like we just don't know what to do, I guess. And so then it doesn't really go anywhere **[16:37]** because people don't know that they should be excited about it or like spend time learning about it. And so I guess one example of kind of storytelling being involved in like the product decisions I guess is that Muk's video player that I did. Um the tech itself wasn't like anything impressive or exciting really. It was more about the story that helped the kind of random controls come together in like a cohesive thing that you could talk **[17:08]** about. So like I could just have a bunch of random controls that are just really terrible. And that's also like kind of a cursed video player, but I made it into a story about like this is inspired by those group projects in school that everyone hates where like one person's input can like negatively impact everyone else. And so that kind of drove all of the decisions that I made as I was trying to figure out like what controls to add and that sort of thing. But I feel like that helped sell it a little bit more and helped it was a **[17:39]** competition so I ended up winning the competition and flying to New York for Versell ship and they like treated me so well the entire time. It was so great. But yeah, I guess like being able to sell your story and like I don't know. It sounds like I'm being very like marketing business person right now of like talking about selling and stuff, but you need to think of it as not just being like a saleserson, but like faithfully telling the story of like what the product is and like why you're so excited about it. And I think that **[18:10]** helps people to understand more of where you're coming from and get excited with you about this thing that you built. >> Yeah, for sure. I feel like that's super important. And yeah, I get the hesitation around calling it like selling, but I feel like it's important not only for, you know, when you release a product to the external world, you know, where you might hopefully you have some marketing support to like talk about it, but it's also important internally. I've read so many post like internal announcements where it's like here's the thing and we shipped this thing and now it is shipped and it's like okay, like great like why do we **[18:42]** care about it? Like how many customers is it going to solve? Like what are their pain points and like how does this address them? I feel like having that narrative around what it is is like a very important skill regardless of where you're at in your career. So >> yeah, there's just so much to care about all the time that people have to be selective and choose what are the most important things. So I feel like that's the main goal of like creating a story. >> Yeah, absolutely. Are there any other skills that you feel like you've sort of like have as a little bit of a superpower having that marketing background that like cross over to **[19:13]** engineering other than the the narrative and storytelling? It's a good question. I think since I don't know, there's like a stereotype of what software engineers are, which is not true at all, by the way. But like I never got into software engineering growing up and stuff, even though there were several signs along the way that maybe it would be an interesting career for me, just because I didn't see myself as like a math person or someone who's really into Star Trek or like, you know, that sort of thing. And so I think I bring like **[19:44]** different soft skills and things that aren't always present with engineers, but as I've like kind of gotten deeper into this career path, I found that many of them are that way anyways. And it's just like a stereotype that you know, you'd have to be really into math or like um yeah, you've been building computers in your mom's basement since you were 12 or whatever the thing is. But yeah, I think like being able to connect people and um build relationships and stuff has been like a fun surprise for me. At my last company **[20:15]** when I was an engineer, I had friends at work, but we didn't really um go out into the broader like tech industry as a whole. We were kind of like siloed on our own. Um and so in this new role, it's been really fun to meet people from different companies and go to conferences and like start to form those relationships. Um, and that's caught me off guard, especially as an intro introvert, that I just wasn't expecting that that would be a superpower of mine, I guess. >> Yeah. It's amazing how much talking you actually have to do in this role where, **[20:46]** you know, everybody's like, "Oh, you're only using a computer." No. >> There's a lot involved in getting people on board and >> Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. And speaking of events, you are going to be speaking at React Miami, correct? >> Yeah, I am. Yeah. Is this your first speaking role or have you done >> It's my first one. I'm really nervous. I need tips. Let me know. >> That's awesome. Congrats. What What made you want to like sign up? Do you know what you're talking about already or I **[21:16]** do know what I'm talking about already? I'm going to try to convince people that they should build more silly software. So, kind of have a theme going here, but I didn't really sign up. I met Michelle um the organizer of React Miami this summer at that at Verscell ship and we got along great and kept in contact afterwards and stuff and she asked me to speak and so that's what's going to happen. So I think I'm scared to death about it. I am not a public speaker. I've never done anything like this before but I think that being scared of **[21:48]** something is not a good reason to not try it. And so I'm going to see and if I hate it I'll never do another talk again. So, we'll see. >> Yeah, there you go. Yeah. I don't think anybody would be like, "Oh, no, you have to do more speaking." >> Yeah. I think that speaking at tech events has been like one of the most fun ways to get involved at them in my experience. And like I've never been to one where there are people in the audience like actively saying like, "No, this person sucks." Like everybody's always like cheering for you. Especially **[22:18]** with that topic. That's going to be Yeah. Everybody's going to be super excited about it. So, it's a good one. >> That's good to hear. Yeah. because you've spoken quite a bit, right? >> This last year was the first time I've done quite a bit and yeah, I did like a couple of like meetups and like larger than meetups before that and now this last year I actually just hung up some conference badges yesterday and wow, I've got like a little collection going. Feel like a big kid now. >> That's fun. >> I've done a few and yeah, I uh I want to keep doing more. So hopefully you'll get the same bug and you're like yes, this is the way to engage at events and **[22:49]** >> yeah. Yeah, that's good to hear because I'm think I'm just like focusing on myself and what my experience is going to be and so it'll be nice to engage in a different way in those events. So that's a good way to look at it. >> Well, we are going to switch gears here at the end. This has all been fun, but we have a uh segment specifically dedicated to talking about something we think is fun and interesting and potentially not strictly software related. And you mentioned that you studied abroad in Spain for a year. You **[23:20]** actually owned a business in Spain. So, uh, and you said you'd always go back there whenever given a chance. So, selfishly, I want some travel tips and ideas, and we'll all go around Robin Style and share our favorite place in the world where we would recommend everyone goes if they have a chance. So, I can start. have been lucky enough to go to Switzerland twice. Heritage, my family's heritage is Swiss and it's like **[23:51]** everything I love. It's so um like healthy. Like the air is wonderfully fresh and like clean. Um and you know, you spend your days like hiking and there's like cows and cute little chalets and would literally go anytime at the drop of a hat. Um, so I don't have like a specific place in Switzerland. I was like younger when I went, so I don't even really remember exactly which cities. So I'm [laughter] **[24:22]** going to say the country of Switzerland, which leaves it very broad, but um, yeah, outdoorsy activities in Switzerland is my my recommendation. I go next. Yep. Okay, cool. Uh my recommendation um is well I would say not as far but I guess it depends on where you're listening from uh because if you're in Europe the Tulin's probably more easier to get to but my recommendation is um Hood River Oregon which probably doesn't sound like super **[24:52]** exciting but like if I were to buy a vacation home somewhere it would absolutely be there. It's on the Columbia River Gorge which is the um river between Oregon and Washington. Um, I try to go at least once a year just to go there and like it's on this beautiful river like with all these canyons around and they have a lot of they have what's called the Fruit Loop there where there's all these different farms you can stop at and they just grow so much fruit there that it's like super fun in the summer to go like farm to farm to just pick up different fruits, whatever they specialize in. Lots of wine tasting **[25:24]** and just some of the most gorgeous mountain views and river views and nice people. So, highly recommend that one. >> Oregon genuinely is like one of the most incredible places. The Pacific Northwest in general, fell in love there. My mind went in so many different places. So, I'm just going to kind of be a little chaotic with it. Part of me is selfish and wants everybody to come to Charlotte where I because I think that it's underrated and I love it and I want other people to love it too. but a far more exciting I guess or out there Rex. **[25:57]** Um I was really surprised by Boston. Me and my husband decided to go there on a whim and it was actually really fun. Super historic but also very modern and it just was a really cool vibe. And then Japan, I feel like everybody who's been to Japan has to recommend it. But it truly was so special. We went to Tokyo and Kyoto and it was such a cool culture to to realize and kind of what you were talking about Christina about like forcing yourself to be a little uncomfortable in places. You're like, "Oh, I don't really I don't know Japanese. I don't know the language. I **[26:28]** don't know like all the customs or anything." And so it's cool to kind of like push yourself and explore beyond what your comfort zone is. So that was definitely like an ex stretching myself and stretching my comfort zone and it was so special. Uh hoping to go back soon. Man, I'm jealous of Japan. I've been lobbying the powers that be at Resend that our next off-site needs to be at in Japan. So, we'll see. My recommendation is Spain. Like you mentioned, I am obsessed with Spain. I love it so much. I've spent some time there. And I think there's many good **[27:00]** places to go. I think the most like classically Spanish with like all the architecture and the like flamco and all the things that you think of and like most highest concentration of like interesting things to look at and do would be Sevilla. And I think though like the city that's closest to my heart is Malaga which is just like on the coast. Um it's like the perfect city in my opinion. It's right on the beach and has great weather, walkable and like interesting museums and things to do. And so that's like that's really close to where I lived when I was in Spain. **[27:31]** But those are two of my recommendations and you can go on a trip and see them both in the same trip cuz they're pretty close by. Um so yeah those I think that's that's my recommendation. Definitely adding it to the list. Uh well thank you again Christina for joining us. Where is the best place for people to find you on the internet? >> I think christinacodes.dev. It has all the other links to go elsewhere. And I'm launching a new newsletter at sillysoftware.comclub. Um, hasn't been released yet. Hopefully **[28:02]** by the time that this episode airs, it will be. But yeah, thank you listeners for tuning in to Overcommitted. If [music] you like what you hear, please do follow, subscribe, or do whatever it is you like to do on the [music] podcast app of your choice. Check us out on Blue Sky and share with your friends. Quick plug for um our book club. whatever time you're listening to this, it's kicking off um in mid December and by the time this comes out it'll probably be running for a bit and there's great content to **[28:32]** catch up on discussions um yeah great great book club content to engage with. So definitely check it out.