Episode 75: DEI Metrics Overcoming Social Barriers in OSS  ## Metadata - Author: [[CHAOSScast]] - Full Title: Episode 75: DEI Metrics Overcoming Social Barriers in OSS - Category: #podcasts - URL: https://share.snipd.com/episode/dbaf8b98-edd0-46a9-81d9-61dc3accee43 ## Document Notes ## Highlights - **Curiosity About DEI Metrics Use** - Anita Ihuman wondered if DEI metrics in open source communities were effectively used or just guidelines. - She studied how helpful these metrics were, especially for underrepresented groups. Transcript: Speaker 1 Yeah. Thank you so much for that question. So when I started contributing to chaos, I think for years back, yeah, it's true. Every year it's back now. I always wondered what metrics were all about. I thought it was interesting to have a bunch of guidelines, standards and protocols that would guide other people on how they should behave in the process. But I wasn't really quite sure how they were used in real time. And one of the questions I always had is, how do we know if people are actually using this? Because we have like almost 100 as of today. I don't even know if people actually go over this if it's helpful to them. And so an issue actually came up about this particular discussion in one of the DEI working group meetings. It was specific to these particular questions that have had for so long. How do we know if people are utilizing the DEI metrics that we've never looked? How effective is it and helpful is it to like, especially people from underrepresented groups, right? And I thought, OK, this would be a great chance to dig in. ([Time 0:02:49](https://share.snipd.com/snip/b5ee7b18-99db-45e2-a3f7-c8fb087df062)) - **Surprising DEI Challenges in OSS** - Many open source projects lack a code of conduct, including some large communities. - Some see DEI as irrelevant if it doesn't enhance market profits, which challenges common DEI assumptions. Transcript: Speaker 1 I've personally found a lot of things surprising. But I'm going to just highlight too. The first is I always thought that code of conduct, things such as code of conduct, was commonly accepted thing in open source communities, right? But through these interviews, also the surveys, I got to see that some persons indicated their communities do not actually have code of conduct, something as important as the code Of conduct. And I realized that most big open source communities as well do not have one in place. And it made me wonder how we can get to these people with these metrics, just to make them realize the importance is something as a code of conduct. And I also learned that which I actually found very interesting, that for most projects, the idea of the eye is seen as a myth. And so for some legacy open source projects, there is very little to no attention on the topic of diversity and inclusion for their projects. Some persons indicated that so long as their communities are able to promote their products and also increase their market profits, DEI might just be nuts of the importance to the communities. And I really thought it was interesting that people actually saw from that perspective, I just thought it was something to do for the general good, not particularly if it brings profits. Obviously, profits is something that businesses should consider, but for the general good and participation in open source, I think it's something that should be considered at every Particular time, not necessarily if it brings profits. ([Time 0:06:08](https://share.snipd.com/snip/d8f29382-ef58-4ed9-96d4-06e739e665fc)) - **Projects Using CHAOSS DEI Metrics** - Apache Traffic Control and Apache Diversity and Inclusion projects use CHAOSS DEI metrics to assess inclusive participation. - Good Docs community also used Code of Conduct metrics to develop their resources. Transcript: Speaker 1 I was excited to see that there exist projects that already it lies in these metrics. And there are some that also considering incorporating them into their practices. And a good example is a approach to traffic control. Participants who happens to be on the particular project mentioned that they use these metrics to assess the inclusive participation to that particular project. Now topics like leadership as well as mentorship have been coordinated within the projects. And I thought it was really great to see that people make efforts to see the end results of this metrics. And another great example is the feedback I got from someone who was running a research on the Apache diversity and inclusion project. And they indicated that they are actually looking at the chaos metrics in terms of mentorships and contributors as well as user experience. Then looking at the metrics to improve these particular aspects in the project. And I thought it was also interesting to see that, okay, at least two projects from the Apache Foundation are digging the topic of metrics. And because I'm also contributing to the Good Docs project. I also got to realize that some of the chaos metrics, particularly the Code of Conduct, were also used in the developments of the communities resources around the Code of Conduct as Well. I really thought it was an exciting feedback from participants. ([Time 0:09:28](https://share.snipd.com/snip/129f3ec7-4eee-4da7-a42d-c7ac0b9778c8)) - **Prioritize Leadership and Mentorship** - Start improving DEI by focusing on leadership and governance to build understanding. - Provide mentorship and sponsorship opportunities to support underrepresented groups. Transcript: Speaker 2 What DEI metrics do you recommend that they start with? Speaker 1 All right, so I cannot pinpoint a particular metric that automatically solve equimities, the challenges or improve on it, because every single one plays a role in a particular angle. But I'm certain that as a project manager or a project owner, if you are considering improving on the diversity and inclusivity of your project, a good place would be to look at the leadership And as well as governance. And that is because if you focus on the leadership, you'll be sure to have one or two more persons that now share this intention with you and understand the part that you're coming from. And it's a lot easier to implement most of these DEI best practices. If you have a team that actually understands what it is and what it can do to your community, you should also look at the mentorship as well as the sponsorship. And the mentorship in the sense that consider mentorship opportunities for underrepresented group to your community. And then sponsorship in the sense that there are also people who are not opportunity enough to learn some of these mentorship, but there are areas within your projects that they could Do in lots of work if given an opportunity. ([Time 0:12:29](https://share.snipd.com/snip/8082eb1c-1ee2-4fa5-8c8f-b8d4ca3c3604)) - **Cultural Challenges of DEI Metrics** - DEI metrics can be complex due to cultural differences and diverse perspectives. - Inclusivity means different things globally, which challenges metric design and application. Transcript: Speaker 1 People have? So you would think that something such as metrics around DI cannot be flawed. But after going over the feedback from these interviews that we had, I also learned that different people share different opinions on the topic of metrics generally. And yet some people raised concerns that difference in culture and background could introduce varied perspectives. And so what missed that A considers in on may be against missed that B believes. And I learned that some people may question the effectiveness of metrics in this situation because metrics could support another group over the other group. And I thought it was interesting and good to look at things from another concern that I also thought was pretty interesting was that the idea of inclusivity could mean different things To different people depending on what they are used to. And so how do we determine if these metrics are themselves inclusive to everyone globally since we haven't really gotten to know the difference opinions of all open source contributors Around the world. And if we take notes both seem to share what concerns that I pointed seem to like be around the diversity that exists in communities and how metrics could be conflicting in situations Like this. ([Time 0:17:31](https://share.snipd.com/snip/82264f18-5caf-4b9d-8014-9655e3fe98a6)) - **DEI Badges Improve Event Experiences** - Events using CHAOSS DEI badges report positive experiences from accessibility and representative participation. - Open Source Community Africa improved event experience dramatically with the DEI badge. Transcript: Speaker 1 Event badges seems to be the most popular of the chaos programs. I think maybe it's because the first two get out there. And through the interviews, I learned that a lot of persons shared stories on how the DEI metrics made a lot of different in how they participated at an event, how in communities that These metrics or at events that these metrics were considered and implemented and also in communities that they were not. And most persons did have more of positive stories like how things such as accessibility, at events for both people with head on hearing, people who are probably disabled and need some Form of help with assessing the venue and the difference in gender and all of that. I got a lot comments on how just seeing that the community is open to some of all of this made a lot of different for the attendees at these conferences. And I also got to see that events organizers as well recognize that these metrics helped the events overall experience of the event for both the attendees and also the speakers. And so overall, I believe that the metrics, especially the ones for events, are something that every open source event should consider in order to support diverse participation. And I really like to see more and more open source communities kick on this event budget and get themselves badged so they can showcase how much effort they're putting in because some Projects are putting in the efforts but it's hard because your identity part of that particular event or you never attended it and you just heard from HSC. ([Time 0:21:03](https://share.snipd.com/snip/ea548880-46ff-48e8-8481-d0b07d8739de)) - **Use Metrics to Spot Inclusivity Gaps** - Use CHAOSS DEI metrics as a checklist to identify overlooked inclusivity issues in events. - Implementing these metrics improves participant experience even for small events. Transcript: Speaker 1 Just like you mentioned earlier, these DM metrics are more like a mural that is placed right in front of your face. For an event organizer, we haven't organized a couple of events. I know that in lots of times I feel like we've checked all the boxes and just on the day of the events you definitely see that like so many processes that have complaints on oh, I didn't get These the events was not fair to me. Oh, I didn't participate because of this. And so many people leave the events with like bad comments and experiences which sometimes are not intentional because you must have missed it. But this DEI metrics will definitely draw attention to areas that might seem very minute but tend to play a huge role in the overall experience of events participants and attendees. And so as an event organizer, I think it's something to consider regardless of how small the events may be, so long as a gathering of people from diverse backgrounds that are coming to Share their stories and all of that, I think it's something to consider because you might not have checked on of those boxes and this metrics and this events batching process would also Help you see those areas that you haven't checked off. ([Time 0:25:18](https://share.snipd.com/snip/9c4f616a-545b-4672-aeaa-f9c73de0aec4)) - **Start DEI by Reflecting, Not Perfecting** - Event organizers should reflect on diversity of speakers, access tickets, and accommodations using the DEI badge process. - Reflection, not perfection, is required to begin improving DEI at events. Transcript: Speaker 2 But it's a way to work together with the chaos project and holding up that mirror and asking questions around how diverse is my speaker line up. Do I have the ability to offer diversity access tickets? What have I done to accommodate different people that might want to participate in the conference and going through the batching process? The first step is to do a reflection on the metrics, how you stand today. And if you don't meet a certain criteria, that's okay. The only requirement is that we ask that you have done the reflection, not that you necessarily meet a certain criteria for how inclusive the event itself is. And then we have a dialogue through the review process and often we see events taking note from that saying, this is something easy enough for us to do in the planning process and now we've Improved the event for everyone. ([Time 0:26:59](https://share.snipd.com/snip/208c2750-7beb-4612-8288-996aec2380a8))